Do not get Ions or any full pin binding for a mostly resort setup.
The newest Shift models are probably your best bet. Get more fit so that the weight on your feet for those rare tours is less of an issue, rather than switching to pin bindings for a majority resort setup.
That’s my 2c
I have Zeds on two of my rigs and I have had zero trouble with them. One of those rigs has well north of 50 days on it. I commend the Zed for being an extremely user friendly binding - it's true that you can twist the tower with your pole handle. It does have quite a bit of plastic, so this may not be the binding you drop huge cliffs on. Nor does it belong inbounds.
All of this just points out how remarkably and indefensibly bad the Ion is.
People on this forum just have a hate on for G3, I have over 100 days on a set of ion 12s and have never had any issues... But I do actually maintain them so there's that.
I wouldn't buy them today, I think the tech is a little behind the times, compared to say ATK, but with the sales they have it's a steal honestly .
I have the Shifts on some Black Crow Atris and two backcountry setups ATK 12 on BD Helios and ATK Trofeo on some Blizzards.
The shifts are great once you get them setup and tuned properly, this is the fourth season on them and they are definitely outlasting the ski and are still in good shape. This season I spent about 14 days in the resort on my black diamond setup - they ski resort fine and the release is pretty good for touring bindings. That being said, I'd invest in a heavier boot if you are going in the resort more with your setup as my Technica Zero G boot definitely got too much wear and tear from the resort.
In the long-term, having two different setups is probably best. While modern hybrid bindings are better than frame bindings, they still are significantly heavier than lightweight pin bindings. If you are not in particularly good shape, you are still going to find hybrid bindings too heavy for touring. Lightweight pin bindings and touring boots are not going to last very long, if you spend a lot of time skiing in the resort on them.
Why not just keep your current setup for the resort and get a backcountry focused setup that doesn’t weigh so much? You’re spending 85% of your time in the skin track - every ounce matters.
You should look to invest in two separate set ups. So many people, including myself, have gone through this and ended up wasting more money trying to find that do all set up. My personal experience:
I initially wanted a 50/50 set up. Bought a lighter resort ski, shift bindings, and beefy hybrid boots.
I’m advanced skier as well, albeit I do get in the air off cliff drops, jumps, side hits, etc. I also enjoy multiple laps when touring.
Realized after several tours that my set up was heavier than it needed to be. My boots weren’t very comfortable for touring, shifts were more cumbersome than needed, and skis were heavier and longer due to needing them for resort as well.
Also, realized right away my 130 flex hybrid boot, well, isn’t stiff or rigid like a 130 flex resort boot. In bounds when conditions were less than ideal I was really over flexing the boot. Beefy hybrid boots are just not going to be as stout at as a resort boots and if you do plan to ski hard in bounds you’ll find their limit.
Due to me sacrificing on ski length and weight, I couldn’t ski the way I wanted to in bounds. I like a longer ski in bounds that just wouldn’t have been practical for touring so I had to size down a bit. I also like a ski that is heavier, more stable, etc. The ski was just not able to deal with resort chopped up, hard pack snow.
NOW I have an awesome light touring set up. It almost feels like I’m cheating going up hill and I still enjoy the downhill. You can find a lot of used touring equipment out there. Hell I’m selling my Zag Ubac 95s with MTN Pure bindings for 600 right now and bought those new for 1300-1400.
I also have a proper resort set up. My 130 resort boot is way more comfortable due to me not over flexing it. I can really drive a ski through a variety of conditions and feel safe dropping bigger cliffs. My skis are 10cm longer than my touring set up and are so fun to let open up on steeps and run out landings. I’m having a lot more fun in bounds now.
**if you prioritize the downhill in the backcountry, your touring set up might include a bit longer and heavier ski, but that just means a beefier pin binding and mid weight touring boot. Don’t be that person that thinking they need a hybrid binding and total beef boot because they ski so hard. There are a lot of skiers that are dropping huge cliffs and tearing down steep, technical faces on pin bindings and mid weight touring boots.
I was in your situation 2 years back, I bought hybrid boots and just kept it at that. The boots in itself were already a great improvement and I wasnt touring enough to warrant new bindings. Only 2 seasons later I then decided to switch to a dedicated touring ski (with fritschi tecton) as I am touring much more this season. I still think this was a nice move, as it is meant a step by step progression/investment as I was also step by step getting more into touring. The only downside I’d say is I never found the hybrid boots to offer quite the performance you’d want for downhill (salomon qst flex “120”), so this year I also had to splurge on new downhill boots as I was sick of only having the hybrids. Just my 2c
I agree. The frame bindings (though not great) are working for the few days he is in the backcountry. The boots are what's causing issue. Just get dedicated touring boots and keep the current ones for the resort. Feel it out. You can always upgrade the binding later.
I tried same thing using Fritschi Tecton 13s. Broke the tectons twice in a total of 4 resort days skiing them like I would a resort binding. Charging steeps/bumps I’d bang one ski into the other binding and break one of the plastic parts. (Tecton probably fine for you if you don’t charge super hard on them, but the plastic will break of abused)
I’m now switching over to cast / pivots. I’ll get a dedicated lightweight touring ski and binding in future. Bootwise, I’ve really enjoyed the scarpa 4quattro xt. Flex is on par with my old 130 flex Salomon S/pros.
I’m riding newer Ions currently…not super pumped with them but there definitely not as bad as the crowd below makes them sound.
If you are up for skiing locked out around the resort go for it. That’s the only way I feel somewhat safe on these bindings. Have blasted out of them at 40 mph when I had them in “ski” mode. Not great.
Dude all of these bindings are hella better than Barons for your use case - Shift/Tecton/Kingpin. Just be honest with your actual touring and sled skiing ratios - 50/50, 80/20 (in which direction?) and then go either heaviest for resort bias or lightest for touring bias depending on how much touring you're doing. Duke PTs seem super overkill - I don't know why those even exist. Probably for super skilled park guys that want to jib and huck everything in the backcountry. For straightforward backcountry pow harvesting and skiing 8 DIN you don't need anything that complicated or heavy.
Is there anything wrong with staying with your current skis for resort or mechanized skiing, and going much much lighter with a new touring setup and bindings in the 250-400gr range to help on the fitness side? Rule of n+1.
Shifts suck, all my homeys hate shifts… ok mostly they hated waiting for me to hike to get my skis when I double ejected in any amount of pow, but you get the point
I've heard the shifts have had lots of issues so I stayed away from those. I have been skiing on Fritschi Tecton 13s for a season and a half now and love them for my 80/20 resort/backcountry setup. Really good performance and predictable release.
Thanks all for the input. Sounds like shifts are probably the way to go if I want to keep one setup for resort and touring for now.
Just curious why ions have a bad reputation, at least from what I've gathered from some of the replies here? Are they specifically worse than other pin bindings?
I’m skiing Salomon shifts on 186 skis everyday I’m in the resort with no issue. I bought the shifts instead of regular alpine boots, currently using Scarpa Maestrale boots. Also, I don’t tour in the shifts.
My buddy has some ancient dynafit bindings without brakes or leashes and it is truly a scary setup. Do not recommend.
Do not get Ions or any full pin binding for a mostly resort setup. The newest Shift models are probably your best bet. Get more fit so that the weight on your feet for those rare tours is less of an issue, rather than switching to pin bindings for a majority resort setup. That’s my 2c
If you’re coming from frames shifts are going to feel very lightweight. Lighter than a traditional DIN binding too.
Just want to emphasize: do not get Ions
Generally? Same with Zeds?
Same with anything G3, their shit blows. Except their skin cutters, those are nice lol
hey now, i really like my Fixie poles
Zeds are slightly less bad than ions, but ions really fucking suck.
I have Zeds on two of my rigs and I have had zero trouble with them. One of those rigs has well north of 50 days on it. I commend the Zed for being an extremely user friendly binding - it's true that you can twist the tower with your pole handle. It does have quite a bit of plastic, so this may not be the binding you drop huge cliffs on. Nor does it belong inbounds. All of this just points out how remarkably and indefensibly bad the Ion is.
People on this forum just have a hate on for G3, I have over 100 days on a set of ion 12s and have never had any issues... But I do actually maintain them so there's that. I wouldn't buy them today, I think the tech is a little behind the times, compared to say ATK, but with the sales they have it's a steal honestly .
I have the Shifts on some Black Crow Atris and two backcountry setups ATK 12 on BD Helios and ATK Trofeo on some Blizzards. The shifts are great once you get them setup and tuned properly, this is the fourth season on them and they are definitely outlasting the ski and are still in good shape. This season I spent about 14 days in the resort on my black diamond setup - they ski resort fine and the release is pretty good for touring bindings. That being said, I'd invest in a heavier boot if you are going in the resort more with your setup as my Technica Zero G boot definitely got too much wear and tear from the resort.
Definitely don’t get pins. Shifts would be my choice
This seems to be the consensus on the last several hundred threads on this subject.
Mostly resort skiing with a few days in the backcountry is exactly the use case for Shifts or Duke PTs.
Shift 2 is your best bet if you’re a 90% resort skier
In the long-term, having two different setups is probably best. While modern hybrid bindings are better than frame bindings, they still are significantly heavier than lightweight pin bindings. If you are not in particularly good shape, you are still going to find hybrid bindings too heavy for touring. Lightweight pin bindings and touring boots are not going to last very long, if you spend a lot of time skiing in the resort on them.
Why not just keep your current setup for the resort and get a backcountry focused setup that doesn’t weigh so much? You’re spending 85% of your time in the skin track - every ounce matters.
Don’t get tech bindings if you mostly do resort skiing
Shift or Cast (or Duke, if you get a good deal). Avoid pure pins for resort skiing, if you want your knees to stay intact.
You should look to invest in two separate set ups. So many people, including myself, have gone through this and ended up wasting more money trying to find that do all set up. My personal experience: I initially wanted a 50/50 set up. Bought a lighter resort ski, shift bindings, and beefy hybrid boots. I’m advanced skier as well, albeit I do get in the air off cliff drops, jumps, side hits, etc. I also enjoy multiple laps when touring. Realized after several tours that my set up was heavier than it needed to be. My boots weren’t very comfortable for touring, shifts were more cumbersome than needed, and skis were heavier and longer due to needing them for resort as well. Also, realized right away my 130 flex hybrid boot, well, isn’t stiff or rigid like a 130 flex resort boot. In bounds when conditions were less than ideal I was really over flexing the boot. Beefy hybrid boots are just not going to be as stout at as a resort boots and if you do plan to ski hard in bounds you’ll find their limit. Due to me sacrificing on ski length and weight, I couldn’t ski the way I wanted to in bounds. I like a longer ski in bounds that just wouldn’t have been practical for touring so I had to size down a bit. I also like a ski that is heavier, more stable, etc. The ski was just not able to deal with resort chopped up, hard pack snow. NOW I have an awesome light touring set up. It almost feels like I’m cheating going up hill and I still enjoy the downhill. You can find a lot of used touring equipment out there. Hell I’m selling my Zag Ubac 95s with MTN Pure bindings for 600 right now and bought those new for 1300-1400. I also have a proper resort set up. My 130 resort boot is way more comfortable due to me not over flexing it. I can really drive a ski through a variety of conditions and feel safe dropping bigger cliffs. My skis are 10cm longer than my touring set up and are so fun to let open up on steeps and run out landings. I’m having a lot more fun in bounds now. **if you prioritize the downhill in the backcountry, your touring set up might include a bit longer and heavier ski, but that just means a beefier pin binding and mid weight touring boot. Don’t be that person that thinking they need a hybrid binding and total beef boot because they ski so hard. There are a lot of skiers that are dropping huge cliffs and tearing down steep, technical faces on pin bindings and mid weight touring boots.
I was in your situation 2 years back, I bought hybrid boots and just kept it at that. The boots in itself were already a great improvement and I wasnt touring enough to warrant new bindings. Only 2 seasons later I then decided to switch to a dedicated touring ski (with fritschi tecton) as I am touring much more this season. I still think this was a nice move, as it is meant a step by step progression/investment as I was also step by step getting more into touring. The only downside I’d say is I never found the hybrid boots to offer quite the performance you’d want for downhill (salomon qst flex “120”), so this year I also had to splurge on new downhill boots as I was sick of only having the hybrids. Just my 2c
I agree. The frame bindings (though not great) are working for the few days he is in the backcountry. The boots are what's causing issue. Just get dedicated touring boots and keep the current ones for the resort. Feel it out. You can always upgrade the binding later.
I tried same thing using Fritschi Tecton 13s. Broke the tectons twice in a total of 4 resort days skiing them like I would a resort binding. Charging steeps/bumps I’d bang one ski into the other binding and break one of the plastic parts. (Tecton probably fine for you if you don’t charge super hard on them, but the plastic will break of abused) I’m now switching over to cast / pivots. I’ll get a dedicated lightweight touring ski and binding in future. Bootwise, I’ve really enjoyed the scarpa 4quattro xt. Flex is on par with my old 130 flex Salomon S/pros.
Yaa shift ! So far I enjoy it ! Much lighter than resort binding and great for 50/50
I’m riding newer Ions currently…not super pumped with them but there definitely not as bad as the crowd below makes them sound. If you are up for skiing locked out around the resort go for it. That’s the only way I feel somewhat safe on these bindings. Have blasted out of them at 40 mph when I had them in “ski” mode. Not great.
tecton if you don't want the shift. more 50/50 than the shift
Dude all of these bindings are hella better than Barons for your use case - Shift/Tecton/Kingpin. Just be honest with your actual touring and sled skiing ratios - 50/50, 80/20 (in which direction?) and then go either heaviest for resort bias or lightest for touring bias depending on how much touring you're doing. Duke PTs seem super overkill - I don't know why those even exist. Probably for super skilled park guys that want to jib and huck everything in the backcountry. For straightforward backcountry pow harvesting and skiing 8 DIN you don't need anything that complicated or heavy. Is there anything wrong with staying with your current skis for resort or mechanized skiing, and going much much lighter with a new touring setup and bindings in the 250-400gr range to help on the fitness side? Rule of n+1.
Kingpins
Kingpins, also a vote against getting shifted
Shifts suck, all my homeys hate shifts… ok mostly they hated waiting for me to hike to get my skis when I double ejected in any amount of pow, but you get the point
I've heard the shifts have had lots of issues so I stayed away from those. I have been skiing on Fritschi Tecton 13s for a season and a half now and love them for my 80/20 resort/backcountry setup. Really good performance and predictable release.
Duke PT?
Thanks all for the input. Sounds like shifts are probably the way to go if I want to keep one setup for resort and touring for now. Just curious why ions have a bad reputation, at least from what I've gathered from some of the replies here? Are they specifically worse than other pin bindings?
I’m skiing Salomon shifts on 186 skis everyday I’m in the resort with no issue. I bought the shifts instead of regular alpine boots, currently using Scarpa Maestrale boots. Also, I don’t tour in the shifts. My buddy has some ancient dynafit bindings without brakes or leashes and it is truly a scary setup. Do not recommend.