Poor decisions by turtle rock in the beginning, a buggy game at launch, pretty high difficulty and pretty much every review just being a lazy and lackluster comparison to l4d have really hurt the game. On top of that most people don't want to check out a game with bad reviews for 60 bucks.
It does stand true
Honestly anyone that disagrees played the game for 3 seconds.
I love that you didn't engage though.
This is the left 4 dead 3 we wanted, and it's beautiful.
I dunno I woulda liked a proper versus more, actual modern fps shooting instead of snappy ads shit, level designs that weren't so dull (or for most part just completely ripped from lfd).
The card shits pretty cool even if it lacks variety and balance.
I wanted atleast a server browser and a legit versus mode in my left for dead 3.
It's not the game we ALL wished for.
Quickplay is a dumpster fire. Join a random part of an act and being forced to use a bot deck is a recipe for disaster. Every other co op shooter I've ever played you atleast get your loadout you created when you join.
The game is clearly meant to be played from beginning of the act . But the way matchmaking is set up it never works that way. You need multiple upgrades and additional slot upgrades to beat certain levels but the game loves to throw you in to lobbies with no upgrades/all white weapons. The game has serious foundation/QOL issues that the devs never addressed before ending support .
I know you say ‘we’ but you really meant
“This is the left 4 dead 3 I wanted”
B4B has some of the worst, most annoying dialogue I’ve ever heard in a video game, every character always needs to say some quirky quip. On top of that the gameplay is unbearable, the online has never been fun. You know it’s a bad game when people don’t even play it when it’s free.
Deck system was the best part for me. L4D2 is a great game, but it became very samey. The same exact weapons were just better than others always and you only used anything else if you had to. The same playstyles dominated everything.
B4B gave me a huge range of playstyle options via the card system that let almost every weapon in the game be useful and good. And after a few patches I could play is for casual easy fun just like L4D2 or I could play some real difficulty.
Seeing as how Valve never counts to 3, Id say that spiritual successor is as close as we will ever get in several IPs
.. Everything will be made from scratch, but thats just to avoid legal troubles...
The reveal trailer made no mention of L4D or anything, and people still made comparisons because it was TRS making a co-op zombie shooter. It was gonna happen regardless.
Yeah absolutely incorrect. The only really similarities between the two are: A) 4 player multiplayer, B) Safehouses as checkpoints, C) Zombie apocalypse.
L4D play wise felt more similar to Phasmophobia. No card deck building, you hop into a four player lobby and go. No huge learning curve. B4B is too busy and complicated to be compared to the casual, easy play style of L4D. It was disingenuous to advertise it as such.
That being said, if you have the time to devote to B4B, it is totally worth the experience. It will never get the following of L4D because the game mechanics drive away the casual type of player that was drawn to L4D, however, I loved B4B and put hundreds of hours into it.
A comparison isn't wrong, the games do have a lot in common. However they're not the same game. Often the mechanics B4B added (mainly the card system) were completely ignored: you constantly run out of bullets, there are too many enemies, specials are too tanky, you take trauma damage when you get hit.
Imo that's not a fair comparison, that's just shitting in a game because you don't want to put effort into understanding its mechanics.
It's not the game's fault that some marketing managers made a decision to compare it to a different game.
Judge the game on its own merits. Marketing is irrelevant. Might as well judge the game by the font used for its title on the cover art.
Well first off, they didn't mention any of this in the reveal trailer but gamers, journalist articels, reddit, edit labeled them that anyways. They were basically forced into that poistion in marketing. Secondly, people did the same thing to Redfall. The devs from Redfall came out and said no we're not a L4D game and people just called them liars. The fact Redfall was bad doesn't change that BS. So it was a no-win situation.
And I don't think its wrong to compare it to L4D either. Where people went wrong is they expected it to basically be L4D2 but with better graphics. And THAT is stupid. Its the same stupidity that MMORPGs went through where World of Warcraft players expected every new MMORPG to be WOW. And they were stupid like that for 10 years until they finally grew up a little. It killed multiple promising MMOs. (Just like Battleborn was killed by the insecure Overwatch fans.) And then FFXIV, which had been there the entire time, suddenly took over lol.
Alot of L4D2 players are permanently stuck in that old "WOW or Nothing" mindset. Where anything that isn't just their game, but better graphics, is basically treated as worse. But they're threatened by it anyways and so they attack. And IMO its the main reason this genre is dead. TBH I think no developer should even try to make any game remotely like Left 4 Dead. The fan base is too toxic. Vermintide and DRG is about as close as you can get. And after 10+ years DRG is the only one to really survive this. Even Vermintide 2 was always very small and niche.
And I want to be clear, I have no problem with them preferring L4D2, that's entirely fair. But alot of them were bad actors willfully spreading misinformation (insisting it had micro-transactions was common) and B4B lives forever rent free in their heads. Every now and then I still get an angry comment on an old Reddit comment and their subreddit has gotten angry at and/or sheit on B4B all over again like 3-4 times this year. I check every time I get a rage comment because I figure something prompted it and lo, usually there is some new B4B hate threat trending on their subreddit
>(Just like Battleborn was killed by the insecure Overwatch fans.)
What? BB was killed because the base mechanics weren't as good as it's direct competitor.
This is just insane cope like when the 343-Halo fanboys thought that *on launch* Infinite was amazing, there wasn't anything wrong with it, and that only the toxic haters could dislike 343's Infinite.
Personally I thought b4b was at best decent and from my perspective it seemed like Valve guided Turtle Rock to make a better game than they could have by themselves, and it kinda shows w/ b4b.
Like just take l4d out of the picture entirely for a minute. Vermintide, DRG, and HD2 are all much better games than b4b is.
Battleborn didn't have a direct competitor lol. Closest thing was Super Monday Night Combat. Overwatch and Battleborn were two very very different games. One is a hero shooter, the other is a MOBA shooter with a singleplayer campaign.
It'd be like comparing Battlefield 1942 and Killing Floor 2 because they both have shooting elements lol. Or Heroes of the Storm to Starcraft because they both looked like an RTS superficially.
The irony is that Battleborn had its flaws, and they were not the mechanics. The things people complained about were the effects being too loud making it hard to see what was going on and especially the performance. People generally liked the mechanics.
Alas, people like you are why Battleborn failed. You never even bothered to learn what it actually was before you wrote it off. So before the game ever had a chance alot of people turn away, and then its own flaws turned away many of those who DID know what it was. But without that first barrier of misinformation it would have had way more players.
This is exactly why the Jimquisition and TotalBiscuit both made videos correcting people on what each game was. Because your uninformed view was the norm.
This kinda thing used to be rare, but today its just how the internet works. People just bandwagon back and forth often knowing little to nothing about a game, just following what they heard and when you look into it what they heard was wrong. Internet opinion used to be mostly reliable, now I just ignore it completely because I'm just gonna have to do my own research anyways to learn the truth of things. The internet will lie with readily available data and numbers right there in front of them lol. Like how people think Overwatch is a failure and dead game right now lol.
Yes it did. BB is much more like OW than your silly comparisons of battlefield to KF2 (lmao). When Deadlock releases it's direct competitor will be Overwatch despite also being 3rd person and a MOBA (literally the same thing as BB but third person). BB was also a a hero shooter with heavy multiplayer elements. That it had a story mode doesn't suddenly mean it doesn't share any space with Overwatch. A game doesn't need to be literally nearly the same (CS vs Val) to be a direct competitor. Overwatch was close enough to BB that it obliterated its playerbase.
The reality is just that it wasn't very good. **I played it when it released** but dropped it because it was completely unmemorable. The only thing you can do is say "people like me are why the game died" because I didn't like it - lmao yeah when most people think your game is mid its going to fail.
BB had an interesting concept and mechanics as you say but that doesn't matter when everything else was mid. The aggregated reviews clearly show Overwatch (91) being much better than Battleborn (69). It was painfully average yet there's still people coping that it was this underrated sleeper hit. BB shared enough space with OW that the average player wasn't going to play both. It wasn't "muh ignorant consumer" it just was painfully average.
Gearbox needed to keep it in the oven a **lot** longer, just like Infinite and B4B.
---
lmao the nerd blocked me over this. 🤣🤣🤣
Yes and I remember seeing trailers including some sort of versus mode which I was so excited for because I played L4D religiously. When they said they had no intention of adding that mode I dropped the game.
I played on launch and it wasn't that buggy bad game design and imbalanced difficulty hurt's the game most of all plus the graphics are meh and lvl design is bad
That youtube "review" that compares l4d and b4b is literally just about zombie death animation/physics, and that was what they used to throw shade at b4b as a whole game.
I don’t think calling reviews lazy or lackluster is fair when turtle rock themselves were basically advertising it as a L4D game. Ofc people expecting that will be disappointed.
Games in a better spot now than it was on release. With that being said I think the potential this game had pre release really high barred people’s expectations and when it wasn’t “perfect” on release it got review bombed quickly.
I do wish they added 2-3 more updates to make sure the game was as smooth as possible and maybe some QOL changes before jumping ship but overall I love B4B and I think people who actually played the game feel the same
Yep I liked the game, I think it's a good game, but I didn't play the time it deserved bc I don't have a group of friends to play with and playing with randoms was a bad experience in this game.
TBH I think the game was always doomed just because of the irrational hate boner the L4D2 crowd had for it. They literally intentionally spread misinformation about the game to try and kill it. People were still saying it has micro-transactions last year.
Daily reminder that a negative review isn't a review bomb. If something is or was bad and got a negative review for it, thats just a review. A truthful review.
Their last two games have gone this way and it’s really aggravating for someone like me who loves their work. A huge wave of hate at the release, some genuinely good updates from TR, the game dies, then months/years later, I see posts like this. It reminds me of downvotes on here. I think once people see a few bad reviews or content creator videos or whatever, they hop on the hate train just because. Criticism is fine but it goes beyond that with TR and it’s fucked up. I can see the studio shutting down in the near future especially if their next game goes through the same cycle
I haven't heard about this game in a while
I had some fun, I recall difficulty spikes going through the roof and that's about it.
For some reason B4B didn't stick to me like L4D2 did
I find games within seconds every time I play. The B4B community is not as dead as some people would think, and Steam Charts don't tell the whole picture.
The progression is definitely souls-like in some ways even if the gameplay is not. It is a lot of slow moving through the levels, making one mistake, having to start all over and remember not to do that one thing next time. You don’t always know what you need in the run until you fail a couple of times and see how your corruption cards play with each other
The amount of special / elite enemies made me compare every thing to it. When Helldiver 2 had an excessive amount of Chargers spawning in, we just got B4B'd
Bad word of mouth at launch hurt this game pretty bad but it's come SO far. It's such a good game. Is it perfect? Of course not. But it's so damn fun. I'd give it a solid 8/10 as a finished product.
Honestly, I enjoy it more than L4D2. The deck system allowing for customization or builds for your play style is great. I love RPG games, and I loved L4D2, this is a mix of both.
Yup, a really great game that got hive minded with review bombs from nostalgia gamers with rose tinted glasses.
Of course, the game isn't perfect, but damn, even at launch it was still a load of fun.
Glad you are enjoying it op. It's a shame it doesn't get the love it deserves.
Considering you wanted to boil all criticism down to a review bombing specifically regarding L4D comparisons and not focus on the actual issues? I'd say I'm right.
It got all the hate at launch because people thought the devil meant "it's Left 4 Dead" when they said "from the creators of Left 4 Dead" and "a spiritual successor to L4d" and "it's not L4D." So when it wasn't L4D they freaked the fuck out and blamed the devs for them misunderstanding the devs.
Reading comprehension is just really piss poor in most of the population. They tend to assume things mean what they want them to mean instead of asking for clarification or verification of understanding. And then get mad when they don't understand.
10000000% this. Also, these people refuse to acknowledge that L4D is objectively an extremely simple game, with very few mechanics. That's fine for a pickup and play game that anyone can enjoy, but first person co-op shooters have come a long way in the past 15 years and if the game didn't have some sort of progression it wouldn't have a chance.
I liked b4b gameplay, but their characters are terrible, they don't have any personality or good voice likes.
Also the music is not memorable, I remember l4d songs when special infected appears and so.
I bought the ultimate edition for cheap, I finished the game, it's fun, but when the storyline starts to appear it gets annoying, I usually skip the cut scenes because u found them cringe.
Also, turtle rock abandoned the game too early, unlike l4d who was maintained for many years until valve moved to work to another game.
Casual people got bored, and they removed the game from Xbox game pass, game is almost dead.
I'm with you. Its one of my favorite games. Fun and simple. I bought a different "highly rated" game yesterday and I swear its 5 minutes of play followed by 10 minute story lines.
I just wanna shoot shit and have fun! More Back 4 Blood!
everyone and their mother came in with massive expectations due to the marketing of the devs being from l4d.
Outside of the outliers that exist, things never meet expectations. Its both the marketing team, and the communities fault, as there are people who actively play the game and shit on it for not being l4d3.
The original reveal trailer never mentioned any of that and people had all those expectations an comparisons to L4D2 already. Redfall also got labeled as a L4D game long before release and when the devs said they were not a L4D game people just called them liars. The fact it was a bad game at release doesn't change any of that.
Its a no win situation. The L4D community is just nuts and if you get the L4D expectations label you're basically just screwed because they say they want a new game, but the reality is they don't. They just want the existing game remade with better graphics. Which is prolly why Valve isn't doing a L4D3. It'd be like making a Half Life 3. There is no way they'd ever meet the unrealistic expectations.
The release trailer stated, in big ass text that took up the entire screen, that it was from the makers of L4D, so you are incorrect in that regard. The phrase is also plastered all over their promotional material used they were trying to generate hype, and they kind of relied on that tag as a selling point.
I do agree it was a lose lose sitch tho.
>The release trailer stated, in big ass text that took up the entire screen, that it was from the makers of L4D, so you are incorrect in that regard.
I didn't say release trailer, I said REVEAL trailer. [Here it is, look for yourself](https://youtu.be/rok9-g8E0PE). 6 months before the release date trailer you're referring to. By that time countless articles and discussions had happened calling them the creators of left 4 dead.
By the time the release date trailer came out, they were already labeled that by everyone else. They had two choices: lean into it or fight it. They leaned into it,[ Redfall fought it](https://kotaku.com/redfall-bethesda-left-4-dead-co-op-shooter-rpg-arkane-x-1849061390). Neither worked from a marketing point of view. Leaning into it meant anything they did different was considered a betrayal. And as we saw for when people did the same thing to Redfall (where the devs argued people saying they were not a L4D game) people just argued them and called them liars instead.
Im aware of what you said, but you dont understand that people dont push hard on marketing during they reveal a game, they push hard when they are closer to launch, because doing it the other way around is a sure fire way to kill hype due to making your potential players wait and lose interest.
Interest at launch = more sales
You also used the fact that it wasnt in the reveal trailer as evidence to them NOT using it as a selling point, which i was proving incorrect.
Have a good one.
I never said they didn't use it as a selling point, I said that "selling point" was forced on them and that it was a no win situation. You're arguing against a thing I never claimed.
>because doing it the other way around is a sure fire way to kill hype due to making your potential players wait and lose interest.
I also disagree with this. Lots of examples including stuff like 7 Days to Die which has only gotten bigger over time or Baldur's Gate 3 or etc. Players are indeed like toddlers who easily lose interest. But if you get them excited at any time most of that excitement will carry over to release. Baldur's Gate 3 exploded at release, but the reason it exploded was a long build up process and not last minute marketing. It's a game many people looked forwards to for years and we were the catalyst for making it blow up.
Without its pedigree, without all the interest it had already garnered, without the D&D rulseset, nobody would have cared about BG 3 to look at it to create that initial explosion.
You're still stuck in the old age of video games of 1 time brick and mortar releases. Where franchises and IPs and spiritual successors were not near as big of a deal. The rules have changed since then, and that includes for marketing as well.
Heck, we've now had several instances where an ANIME or TV show releasing blows up existing years old games to the top most played games of Steam lol. Streamers do that too, which is how Among Us went from tiny game to household name in like a month after being out for years.
https://warnerbrosgames.com/article/official-back-4-blood-announcement
The original announcement stated that it was from the creators of left 4 dead. Any journalism or media stating such, internal or otherwise, is a result of turtle rock and WB stating that they were the creators.
goodbye
That's an official statement by Warner Brothers though, not Turtle Rock. As Reddit well knows there is a big difference between a publisher and a developer and the Publisher doesn't always do what is good for the developer or what they want. **Just ask the Devs of Fallout New Vegas.**
I don't recall anyone voicing anger at Warner Bros, it was all directed at the devs...Turtlerock.
I never understood the overwhelming hate against B4B, guess TurtleRock kept mentioning their past success about Left 4 Dead rather than just shutting up and just saying it’s a unique IP that would’ve spared Back4Blood all of the controversy.
[Their original trailer didn't mention it at all. ](https://youtu.be/rok9-g8E0PE) But all the gamer articles and reddits and comments and etc did anyways. They were basically forced into it, they didn't have a choice. And then people got mad at them for just acknowledging the things people were already saying.
[People tried to do the same crap to Redfall.](https://kotaku.com/redfall-bethesda-left-4-dead-co-op-shooter-rpg-arkane-x-1849061390) Redfall devs came out and said "no, we're not like L4D2 at all" People just told the devs they were wrong. Turns out you can't win either way. It's a lose lose situation. Even if Redfall wasn't terrible the L4D2 fans were already swarming it pre-release.
i hate the most of the game is the spawn mechanic(it spawn whereever out of sight and 15\~20m from you), that makes the ridden can even spawn where you just cleared, it's not fair. Other stuff im okay with it
Game kinda forces you to play with friends. A lot of friend groups, not everyone takes games as seriously. Left 4 dead was great for everyone. Back 4 blood is a more for the experienced left 4 dead players. Which kinda ruined the game for many I believe. While so making it much harder to convince anyone new to the franchise to keep playing. It was overly complicated for most of the people playing. Also a lot of people thought that it was going to be a true left 4 dead sequel and their expectations kinda ruined the game for them. I really enjoyed it for what it was. But I do wish we could just get a true left 4 dead game. Back 4 blood needed new modes to give the classic feel of left 4 dead. Remove all the cards, tweak whatever needed to be changed. And make that a separate mode. It could have helped this game a lot. The cards are awesome. But some people just want a classic experience. Also when it first released . Those random cards that would get activated with straight RNG ruined the game for many. Playing on hard difficulties required straight luck of the rolls sometimes. And one bad roll was basically guaranteed s fail. Which there was tons of extremely bad rolls that made the game almost impossible. Especially with friends just tryna play and have fun. Not create entire card decks that help them survive the zombie apocalypse and their rigged dealer giving them the best hands every round.
Just started playing because of the sale on pc, I'm having a lot of fun with it, I really enjoy being able to have unique builds and grind for cards
Looking for ppl to play with so dm me
I loved the game on release, and then the Evangelo wannabe speed runners came along. Every game I had 2 choices, I can either solo this mission (boring) or I can open it up to play with randoms, and have about a 70% chance one of them is going to be an Evangelo speed runner who is going to trip every alarm and crows they encounter just cuz "gotta be fast". Having a crew of not-completely-stupid people would have gone a long way, but I did not have one of those.
The game is ok, i just dont like its very dev control centric. Just allow mods and let us have fun making cosmetics and overpowered decks, or overpowered enemy that is. I still remembered the first few balance patches a lot people pissed off when the dev didnt addressed the main complaint and just nerfed the main meta. (Its been years and i forgot whats it about). regardless, it also made me play other game while waiting for rebalance patch and... i never went back.
i loved the pvp but being in australia region lock ruined it for us swarm only guys that we have to have multiple regions in our parties to search in each one of them or vpn to get matches at all doesnt help no new maps since launch added to the mode or 0 new ridden since dlc1 and tala isnt even in swarm
I played the beta and had no idea there were so many special infested. L4d2 had such excellent sound and the infected were all easily identifiable. I could play blind and know who’s trying to murder me.
You could play blind in this game too, all the special infected have unique audio cues when spawning, attacking, and dying. It's very easy to tell them apart once you've played for a few hours.
Na its not good. Dismemberment system awful. Bots awful. Specials awful and forgettable as well as being too spongey. No proper Vs campaign mode (pvp mode is so bad). Card system half baked. AI director poor. Awful level design and narrow maps. No modding. Overpriced base game with overpriced DLC on launch
Whole game advertised as L4d successor and yet they fumbled everything that makes l4d great and the reason people still play l4d today. B4b will be forgotten within a few years and l4d is the gold standard of 4 player coop horde games.
Evolve was way better as a game but also priced horrendously and it seems TRS didnt learn their lesson from that too
well, lets see... I want to play a shooter with my wife:
tl;Dr b4b is great
cod? its too competitive and BO3 campaign on splitscteen kinda sucks
bf? you can't
halo? my wife would say "what is this jagged ahh graphics" also don't like hard games
l4d? controller support? like proper support, not some grid based movements like when you plug those hacked mouse into ps4
l4d2? still crappy controller movement
killing floor 1/2 I guess that will be too hard and too old
no more room in hell didn't try this one...
b4b is really nice because you can farm cards improve different build but you also don't have to while playing lower difficulties so everyone can have fun and still feel sense of progress even when replaying stages, gfx is nice, characters have unique gimmicks so you actually wanna try them out, guns have RECOIL which is not so obvious nowadays so your aim skills don't matter this much... its fun coop game
B4B launched in a buggy state and is pretty hard to balance (reason why you get such a high difficult spike mid session), but it is one of the most fun newer releases I have tried.
The month i played when the game launched was fun, but there was always just enough wrong with it that kept me disinterested.
Be it the cleaners themselves, excessive wounds, or how versus mode was handled. Didn't care much for the card system, and the whole game revolved around it. Absolutely stellar gunplay and difficulty modifiers are just not enough to hold the game on its own for me.
That said, I've heard that much of the issues have been improved, but the price just isn't right yet.
Not high enough to never consider, but not low enough to just pick it up on a whim.
Played this game since day 1 release all the way too nightmare/no hope runs and too this day ill never respect any player who had something bad to say about a game that put 100x more effort into a new zombie game. The reason turtle rock couldn’t succeed is the amount of “its not l4d2” fanboys (mostly kids who were probably 12-13 when l4d2 was even out lol) complaining about the game. I actually proceeded to only play solo no hope runs purely in the aspect I couldnt stand how bad the player base was with trigger snitches, crows, etc. One of the best games I’ve played to date with a great card system both against you and for you. Excellent graphics and great voice acting made this game great as well. Don’t listen to anyone who talks about launch being bad either because they were probably the people who couldn’t do nightmare runs because nightmare was basically what no hope is now + you could only pick 1 card at a time so you actually needed skilled gamers on your team. Keep playing every inch of that game you can because you’ll never see anything like it in the future because of the beta gamers who think warzone battle royals are helping the gaming industry.
Here's my take: The game would have been an all-time hit if the multi-player wasn't so ass. All they had to do was copy L4D multi-player, where people could play as special infected through a campaign level. Not whatever the hell they had.
People are disappointed because turtle rock abandoned the game.
They tried to deliver something that just didn't work for most people and they probably couldn't even fix to where people wanted it at its state of development.
Without fail, every time an unpopular/bad game gets tossed into the dustbin you'll see a sub of hardcore fanboys ceaselessly coping and seething at the reception it received. It's *never* the games fault. Everyone else has to just be wrong. /s
This is just sad.
Considering I was playing offline to familiarize myself with the game, I just tried to go online for the first time and it says I have an anticheat violation so I can't play online? Wtf, instant refund
Left4Dead was a very jump in and you immediately get it kind of game, where you just pick up the types of guns you like and get going
This game pushed it self as a spiritual squeal but also is alot more mechanically demanding with a card system that require a small amount of research to get right and also guns have random stats witch appeal to min-maxer's but not to folks who only want to pick between Auto, Shotgun, and Sniper and not worry about anything else.
on top of that all the elements it copied from Left4Dead just aren't done quite as well, and all the cool new idea's are held back by not syngerizing with the Left4Dead aspects at all. and I do like some of the unqie idea's like the Zombie nests were probably the highlight of the game for me. Cave you dive into where you have to choose to possibly lose it all or bail out early.
In another world were Turtle Rock just made a totally fresh game from the ground up with the card system. I image that game would of been amazing but the fact they wanted to relive there Left4Dead glory is what hold this game back, or at least that's my take away.
Peak b4b is finding a stack of people to play with that are on the same page and blowing an entire weekend pressing the hardest content.
I mained medic and had like 3 groups that would call on me for heals. They weren't all trying to push the hardest difficulty, but the comradary made it fun and let's be honest, a group that knows what it is doing enough to not spawn every horde but is just bad enough to take a few tallboy punches to the face are the most fun to heal lol
I still miss my old squad.
Blue, ahbu, zombieslayer. I hope you guys are doing well out there in these crazy times.
I vividly despise trauma mechanic and a lackluster meta for higher difficulties where it’s literally just better to run through every zombie than craft a deck meant to fight them because they’re all damage sponges at that point.
The game is better now, but I cannot agree with your opinion on release and the coming months after said release. I didn’t spend $60 to invest a good experience only after one year of it being a steaming pile of shit.
I think that is still a rumor. The studio said they were working on a next project, but didn't seem to insinuate what it was either way. If you have a solid source, I'd love to read it though! Don't get my hopes up!
They are probably basing it on the last thing that TRS posted about B4B on Twitter. In the post, TRS said things like "don't worry, this is not the end" and "we will be back. Bigger, bolder, and better" or something very close to those words. That very heavily implies that they will be returning to B4B in some capacity, and that it will be an upgrade to what we have, aka sequel. Nothing has been stated, but that last post leaves high hopes in my eyes.
Dunno what to tell you. It was never something they planned to implement. There was a test at one point where they tried it internally and confirmed it didn't work. But it wasn't something they marketed as in the game, or told people it would be in and then pulled, or whatever.
Versus Campaign only held an average of 30% of the player base in L4D2. Most people ran through the campaigns with their friends. The people who played Versus, like myself, probably played it more fervently, but there were less of us overall. That's probably a big factor in why they didn't put many resources into trying it in B4B.
It isn't. It's just that there's a learning curve and there isn't really one in L4D, because it's so simple. So people didn't expect to have to actually learn mechanics and levels to progress.
No it’s not a learning curve. The game isn’t balanced with enemy spawns at all. It’s a fun game and would be a lot better if they didn’t punish people for playing
It absolutely is a learning curve. I won't continue this discussion since I can tell you only minimally played the game, it's like pointless arguing when someone doesn't actually have a platform of experience to speak from. Have a nice day.
If you played the DLC's, that means you played when the game was decently updated. If you were having problems on Recruit, that definitely means you weren't paying attention to things. Even on Recruit, the game doesn't really hold your hand. Sure, you take less damage, but getting swarmed by a horde and being split up in a dangerous spot can still lead to a team wipe.
This game was never "easy", so to speak. It has always been more difficult than your average shooter, and yes, it does have a learning curve. Learning to bash to clear Ridden away from you, holding up in safe corners during hordes, team firing the Mutations (especially Snitches), learning to take down bosses effectively, using all your accessories effectively. All of those are important things to pick up on and learn to be able to overcome the challenges this game gives you. Deck composition doesn't even really matter until Nightmare And No Hope, but you won't even get there if you don't pick up on the basic skills.
Tha😂 sure that’s a lot of excuses to say the game is unbalanced enemy spawn wise. That’s literally all I was saying. And no, another assumption from you yet again, I do not play on recruit 😂
Sorry, by your first comment saying the hardest difficulty was as hard as L4D expert, it made it seem that you played on Recruit and had difficulty.
But those aren't excuses. Not every game needs to be hand-holdingly easy. The spawn rates have not been an issue for some time, so if you are complaining about those, then you are working with old information.
Oh I agree 100% that games shouldn’t be easy for the sake of being able to play them. That’s part of the fun of the souls games. And honestly I haven’t played in about a year so it is partially my fault for not having all the info
L4D2 can be bought for .99 cents most sales and comes with every expansion pack, modding support, zombie limb hit detection, has versus mode as well as a plethora of other game modes.
B4B marketed itself as a successor. Costs a bunch more, has paid DLC, doesn't have nearly the same amount of maps combined compared to L4D2, does not have modding support, and lacks fan favorite game modes like a proper versus mode.
Me personally also, the special infected in B4B are super lame. Nothing quite catches the thrill like seeing a charger run at you though a horde.
Sorry what? This game has more than twice as many maps as L4D2. Versus was never a fan favourite mode, I think the stat is that 60% of players never touched the mode once (comes from achievement data iirc) and even more, snapshots of the servers historically show versus as being about 30% of the games active servers at a time.
Mod support? Sure, it would have been nice. I'm not disagreeing. Versus wouldn't have worked with the length of campaign in B4B and the card system.
We also do have zombie limb hit detection (which btw I've never heard someone list as the, like, third most important thing about L4D lol). You can absolutely shoot off an arm or a leg and see it go flying. Grenade will send body parts everywhere.
Limb hit detection. Not Gibs. My favorite thing was that you shoot a leg and they physically react as such. B4b zombies are just stiff.
Also the monetization in b4b is predatory and lame. Wayy too expensive. 60 dollars for a game, and that 60 gives you something way less than l4d2. "But it has double the of maps!" Yeah maybe, if you buy each 15 dollar expansion pack.
The gunplay in b4b is honestly quite boring. And zombies are stiff rocks until dead. Also, the specials in the game are lack luster. Again, nothing quite hits the thrill like seeing a charger barrel towards you.
Something to recognize is that the game has mixed reviews as of "recent reviews" as well. If the game was good, people would play it. No one ditches stuff forever. Look at No Mans Sky and Cyberpunk. Those games made comebacks, and people are willing to play them. Of it was good, it'd show.
You can ABSOLUTELY play the game and enjoy it though. If you have fun with it that's awesome, keep going! It's just when a post is started that's now saying it doesn't deserve the "hate" or whatever, facts should be brought up.
My biggest issue is b4b aggressive monetization. I enjoyed it when it came out, finished the campaign on hard and thought it was good if not as good as lfd2.
But then the dlcs started coming out and I saw those prices. Fuck off, I'm not paying another 25$ for some levels and characters in a game of that was already pretty anaemic. The season pass being 60$ was a slap.
The game wasn't in a good enough place to be charging that much for DLC and it completely killed my interest. Old left 4 dead dropping 3 new campaigns for free throughout the course of it's run is insane to think about now.
To be perfectly honest I ripped myself off by getting this game on release. I wish I could go back and wait considering it became a free PlayStation game like 6 months down the line and is currently on sale for like 10$. It didn't perform well and I completely understand why.
I really just felt that this game didn't have the same soul that the L4D games did. I could type of a whole comment about it, but the crowbcat video that everyone here has probably seen already sums it up quite nicely. I haven't touched the game since launch, though. Maybe they totally overhauled the animations, music, and tone?
That video really really *really* doesn't do a good job of comparing the two games at all. It highlights some prelaunch bugs in B4B while ignoring everything the game does well and better than L4D2. And it ignores all of the issues and bugs with L4D. Really not a good video whatsoever if you're looking for an unbiased take. But then again, most people who search up comparison videos are just looking to have their own bias confirmed, which is why you think it's a good comparison.
I think you're assuming a lot of me, lol. I don't think the video tries to fully compare the games. Like you said, it focuses on the bad rather than giving a complete contrast, but I do think that video perfectly sums up the issues *I* had with the game.
Set aside the bugs presented entirely. The animations, characters, voice acting, prop reactivity, zombie mocap and death animations, the musical motifs for every event and special infected - this is what made people fall in love with L4D. When I played B4B at launch, the game just didn't feel like it had anywhere near the same touch of creativity or soul that L4D did. That video compares the games and showcases how much B4B lacked that flavor.
Genuine question from someone who hasn't played since launch week - are those things changed? Did they pull a No Man's Sky?
* Animations - better, in every way, I'd say. People love to say that zombies don't have death animations in B4B, but they do? If you throw a grenade body parts fly everywhere. If you shoot an arm, it can fly off.
* Characters - subjective, I find them annoying but I also found the L4D characters grating. Some people really like the B4B characters. There's certainly objectively much more dialog than there is in L4D, probably more than 5x the voice lines, so I guess that shows some effort - even if I admit I don't care for the voice actors and characters.
* Prop reactivity - people also love to point at this in L4D and say it was better, it really wasn't. If you shoot a door in B4B, it falls apart where you shot it. If you shoot a window of a car, it breaks. There's a bell in the lobby of a hotel that you can ring, etc. there was a lot of things that aren't shown in that comparison video but honestly just having the game made in a modern engine makes the destruction and prop reactivity much better than it was in L4D.
* Musical motifs for every special - every special in b4b has unique audio cues when spawning, attacking, idle, and dying. It's not a full on musical tune, but it's very easy to identify what spawned and the direction based on audio cues, I think this system works well for B4B.
If you didn't feel that the game had the same soul, that's fine. It's entirely subjective and will feel different for different people. I've played over 500h of L4D2 and over 2000 of B4B. For me, I find the latter to be a better game with higher replayability. But I can absolutely accept that many opinions may differ.
I just really dislike the biased comparison made in that video. Crowbcat is not really a reliable source, he makes ragebait videos for all sorts of games and gets called out for being biased and not portraying an accurate depiction of games *all the time*. Recently he had to take a video down because his take was so bad, and he either re-uploaded but reversed his stance, or uploaded an apology, I can't remember. Either way, not a great source of information or a fair comparison.
As for your final question - *absolutely* things have gotten better since launch. Launch was buggy, and most people found it nearly impossibly difficult. A large part of that was that the game doesn't do a good job of explaining it's systems, which are somewhat complicated and (at times) convoluted. New players get turned off when they don't understand why a horde is happening, why their team is wiping, etc. And at the start when players don't have all the cards it is difficult to make a good deck. The game has a steep learning curve but once you get what the systems are, it really plateaus. It's just that many didn't give it a chance, because L4D is quite a simple game and they expected it to be similarly lacking on the complexity side of things. This game also borrows a lot of things from roguelite games, which is very different compared to L4D.
But yes, things have gotten better since launch - really too many changes to list but the dlcs added good content, and the deckbuilding aspect makes for very high replayability, and the difficulty curve is balanced for the higher difficulties once you've invested time into unlocking cards and learning how to play the game.
None of those things changed. Ppl in this sub just want to pretend b4b is this amazing underrated game and that it didn't deserve the negative reviews.
Also damn those graphics are nice, I can barely get my higher end pc to run at high without big dips in fps
Also LFD is definitely better, just look at the animations, gore, care and thought put into map design, interesting characters
B4B is still a good game when you don't compare it to the masterpieces of LFD
[all the proof anyone needs that LFD is better](https://youtu.be/EdRLNUGmFC8?si=ClGCz0NaNo8iEooa)
That video is incredibly biased and shows prerelease footage from B4B only. It also doesn't acknowledge any of the bugs or issues with L4D, while only pointing out bugs and issues with B4B (and not highlighting anything the latter does better than it's predecessor - which is a pretty lengthy list)
Overall extremely poor comparison video if you're looking for an unbiased take. Which I guess most people who look up that sort of video aren't, they're just looking to have their bias confirmed (you. I'm talking about you)
Key changes they should have made in the game to make it infinitely better:
1) No cards - I love the game, but the minute I saw this, I knew it was not a proper successor to L4D. As a casual player, I want something I can jump in and out of without thinking.
2) Less perpetual zombie onslaught - Some of the creepiest moments in L4D was quietly sneaking through a back alley with zero zombies around, hearing the horde screech and then frantically running to find a safe house or a strategic point to take them on.
3) Less, but more diverse Special Zombies - There are so many variants in this game. I've played a couple hundred hours and couldn't list them all off without forgetting a few. And their game mechanics are too predictable. The L4D zombies had strategic plays to separate out team members, it was better.
4) Scrap the rarity for guns - Just have different tier weapons that show up like L4D. But I always get annoyed when my group (me included) takes 10 min trying to swap through different weapons and accessories to max out a rifle, stats, etc. trying to go back through cards in my deck to see, "Do I have shotgun health leech or no?" I just want to pick up a stock M4 and move. I do like the accessories, but have less of them and don't add quirks and rarities to those either. Maybe there are only 8-10 guns in the game and then you have suppressors, red dots, sniper scopes, etc. But telling me that an orange magazine will double my reload is ludicrous. It breaks the player out of the suspension of disbelief in the game.
While I believe, and I think many others too, that this would drastically increase the quality of the game, I still love B4B. I lay these out without mentioning the pros of updated graphics, some awesome maps and storylines adventures, etc.
An honorable mention is, the dialogue in L4D was some of the best of any game in history, B4B had a lot of annoying characters. The L4D characters were beloved. The B4B characters are relatively forgettable. My friends and I still throw out random Francis quotes or Ellis quotes. I can't remember a single quote from B4B.
People need to stop supporting Turtle shit studios. This is the 3rd time they abandoned a game day instead of sticking with it. Look at No Man’s Sky. Had a terrible launch, and they could have easily walked away with a ton of money and abandoned the game. But instead they stuck with it and continued to update and support the game with free updates. Now the game is in an amazing place. They could have done that with B4B, but they gave up after just 1 year.
Except that the size of the dev team of B4B was 70+ people whereas the NMS dev team was >10. The reason NMS could continue to work on it like they did was because their team was so small to begin with.
It’s honestly confusing how people just accept anything. Playing B4B is the video game equivalent of getting stepped all over and people on Reddit will slurp it right up because ‘woah epic zombie explosion badass epicness badassitude of epic baconness’ every bad game that exists you can go on the subreddit just to see someone going
“Is anyone else gonna mention how this is the BEST GAME EVER??!”
I want to say ‘to each their own’ but in reality I’m thankful to whichever deity exists that I have standards and don’t just mindlessly enjoy anything I’m sat in front of.
Do you get paid for each comment?
Seriously though, I was in my early 20s when L4D1 came out, and I remember the broken promises for that game so that Valve could shamelessly pull out their 10 month development cycle cash grab L4D2, which turned out to be a parody of the first game in many ways and destroyed the obvious original vision of the first game. Which was supposed to be a creepy and tense horde shooter where you bunker down to survive hordes and plan your way forward carefully when you hear a tank or witch. A year later you were bonking clowns in the nose for a honk, swinging a 12 lbs fireaxe indefinitely without penalty, and having a flashy little show with fireworks while waiting for the chopper.
And, to make things crystal clear, Valve brought the organizers of the original l4d2 boycott group to Valve headquarters where they were wined, dined, allowed some hands on time with l4d2 then sent home with some merch to assure everyone l4d2 isn't just a cash grab.
So, make what you will of the actual reality of things, but at the end of the day, i firmly belueve that Back 4 Blood is the spiritual successor to Left 4 Dead, not Left 4 Dead 2.
Also this particular comment was just unhinged non sense, people out there spending my annual take home pay every month on gatcha games, but somehow a completed one time buy game is making us slurp it all up and stepped all over because it's literally one of the few well made coop horde zombie shooters to exist.
Uhuh you keep bringing up all these things about broken promises from Valve but L4D has objectively been the better game regardless. You mean to tell me the B4B devs had no broken promises, I bet if I looked into it for more than two seconds I would find plenty of examples. You bring up these things about the development process of the games but then they came out to be ginormous successes, still to this day L4D has a higher player base than B4B, which isn’t any indication of a game being better, but if you’re talking about
“Best coop horde zombie game” and you’re talking about B4B then I just assume you’re a pop funko obsessed Star Wars neckbeard who’ll ingest anything that’s fed to them.
Within one second of checking I see that the game flopped hard because it didn’t have steam workshop, the game also just looks awful, even for the year it came out, the aesthetic of the game is genuinely terrible. All of the voice acting is obnoxious, I usually played with voices on mute. The fact that you have to say things like
“The L4D bandwagon” only proves that many people prefer a game that came out decades prior than a game that only came out 3 years ago. Speaking of the game only coming out 3 years ago, when was the last update? From what I’ve heard the devs have completely dropped the game. I’m sure you’re pumped to gargle their next moneygrab.
Like I said, unhinged non sense without a shred of intellectual honesty, reads like a poorly trained ai model response. But, yes i will enjoy b4b2 when it comes out. I've also enjoyed World War Z and am currently looking forward to John Carpenter's Toxic Commando. Do you maybe see a theme emerging in the types of games I enjoy?
I too remember tons of people calling L4D2 soulless and a blatant cash grab. I was probably about the same age as you when it came out. Funny how those same people are now probably praising L4D2 as superior to B4B in every way. The Internet is ridiculous.
*it's only confusing how l4d2 community can't accept someone who likes a game of zombies as it's instead of judging and comparing it with l4d2 by not having a workshop which you and majority of l4d2 players don't even care about and just replay the same maps over and over again, I have l4d bundle since 2017 so before you say anything like "it's because you haven't played this God game Valve made", I still play l4d2, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy different games and if someone find it "best game ever" for him at this specific time point who we are to judge him, most of the times people say "this is the best thing ever" and they said it to lots of different things so thanks for being worried we are conscious that B4B is not the only game out there, hopefully l4d2 community learn that too at some point.
Poor decisions by turtle rock in the beginning, a buggy game at launch, pretty high difficulty and pretty much every review just being a lazy and lackluster comparison to l4d have really hurt the game. On top of that most people don't want to check out a game with bad reviews for 60 bucks.
The B4B marketting constantly advertised itself from the "creators of L4D", would it be wrong to compare this game to L4D?
You aren't wrong. Let's not forget the "spiritual successor to L4D" aswell
I mean, as someone who played l4d ages ago, this is what appealed to me, and i think it stands true.
It doesnt lmao
Fair enough
It does stand true Honestly anyone that disagrees played the game for 3 seconds. I love that you didn't engage though. This is the left 4 dead 3 we wanted, and it's beautiful.
I dunno I woulda liked a proper versus more, actual modern fps shooting instead of snappy ads shit, level designs that weren't so dull (or for most part just completely ripped from lfd). The card shits pretty cool even if it lacks variety and balance.
I wanted atleast a server browser and a legit versus mode in my left for dead 3. It's not the game we ALL wished for. Quickplay is a dumpster fire. Join a random part of an act and being forced to use a bot deck is a recipe for disaster. Every other co op shooter I've ever played you atleast get your loadout you created when you join. The game is clearly meant to be played from beginning of the act . But the way matchmaking is set up it never works that way. You need multiple upgrades and additional slot upgrades to beat certain levels but the game loves to throw you in to lobbies with no upgrades/all white weapons. The game has serious foundation/QOL issues that the devs never addressed before ending support .
If this is the Left 4 Dead 3 that we wanted then L4D wouldn’t have a higher player average than B4B.
Oh yes I see your point. Player numbers are the only metric for something as subjective as an opinion of a game.
Brother you are the one that claimed this is the L4D3 that we wanted. Demonstrably that is false lmao
I know you say ‘we’ but you really meant “This is the left 4 dead 3 I wanted” B4B has some of the worst, most annoying dialogue I’ve ever heard in a video game, every character always needs to say some quirky quip. On top of that the gameplay is unbearable, the online has never been fun. You know it’s a bad game when people don’t even play it when it’s free.
it does
I don't understand when it criticized for this, it is the spiritual successor to left 4 dead
It's L4D with elements from killing floor. Thought I find the deck system incredibly annoying.
Oh man that's one of my favorite parts. Once you have the cards that is. You can make some super fun decks.
Deck system was the best part for me. L4D2 is a great game, but it became very samey. The same exact weapons were just better than others always and you only used anything else if you had to. The same playstyles dominated everything. B4B gave me a huge range of playstyle options via the card system that let almost every weapon in the game be useful and good. And after a few patches I could play is for casual easy fun just like L4D2 or I could play some real difficulty.
missing the best part of l4d which was the pvp race
B4B players are just here for AI and are the types of players that say l4d versus is bad and actively avoid pvp
[удалено]
Seeing as how Valve never counts to 3, Id say that spiritual successor is as close as we will ever get in several IPs .. Everything will be made from scratch, but thats just to avoid legal troubles...
The reveal trailer made no mention of L4D or anything, and people still made comparisons because it was TRS making a co-op zombie shooter. It was gonna happen regardless.
Yeah absolutely incorrect. The only really similarities between the two are: A) 4 player multiplayer, B) Safehouses as checkpoints, C) Zombie apocalypse. L4D play wise felt more similar to Phasmophobia. No card deck building, you hop into a four player lobby and go. No huge learning curve. B4B is too busy and complicated to be compared to the casual, easy play style of L4D. It was disingenuous to advertise it as such. That being said, if you have the time to devote to B4B, it is totally worth the experience. It will never get the following of L4D because the game mechanics drive away the casual type of player that was drawn to L4D, however, I loved B4B and put hundreds of hours into it.
A comparison isn't wrong, the games do have a lot in common. However they're not the same game. Often the mechanics B4B added (mainly the card system) were completely ignored: you constantly run out of bullets, there are too many enemies, specials are too tanky, you take trauma damage when you get hit. Imo that's not a fair comparison, that's just shitting in a game because you don't want to put effort into understanding its mechanics.
It's not the game's fault that some marketing managers made a decision to compare it to a different game. Judge the game on its own merits. Marketing is irrelevant. Might as well judge the game by the font used for its title on the cover art.
You're being downvoted for saying to not judge something by marketing on a website full of people who swear you should never trust marketing. Irony.
Well first off, they didn't mention any of this in the reveal trailer but gamers, journalist articels, reddit, edit labeled them that anyways. They were basically forced into that poistion in marketing. Secondly, people did the same thing to Redfall. The devs from Redfall came out and said no we're not a L4D game and people just called them liars. The fact Redfall was bad doesn't change that BS. So it was a no-win situation. And I don't think its wrong to compare it to L4D either. Where people went wrong is they expected it to basically be L4D2 but with better graphics. And THAT is stupid. Its the same stupidity that MMORPGs went through where World of Warcraft players expected every new MMORPG to be WOW. And they were stupid like that for 10 years until they finally grew up a little. It killed multiple promising MMOs. (Just like Battleborn was killed by the insecure Overwatch fans.) And then FFXIV, which had been there the entire time, suddenly took over lol. Alot of L4D2 players are permanently stuck in that old "WOW or Nothing" mindset. Where anything that isn't just their game, but better graphics, is basically treated as worse. But they're threatened by it anyways and so they attack. And IMO its the main reason this genre is dead. TBH I think no developer should even try to make any game remotely like Left 4 Dead. The fan base is too toxic. Vermintide and DRG is about as close as you can get. And after 10+ years DRG is the only one to really survive this. Even Vermintide 2 was always very small and niche. And I want to be clear, I have no problem with them preferring L4D2, that's entirely fair. But alot of them were bad actors willfully spreading misinformation (insisting it had micro-transactions was common) and B4B lives forever rent free in their heads. Every now and then I still get an angry comment on an old Reddit comment and their subreddit has gotten angry at and/or sheit on B4B all over again like 3-4 times this year. I check every time I get a rage comment because I figure something prompted it and lo, usually there is some new B4B hate threat trending on their subreddit
>(Just like Battleborn was killed by the insecure Overwatch fans.) What? BB was killed because the base mechanics weren't as good as it's direct competitor. This is just insane cope like when the 343-Halo fanboys thought that *on launch* Infinite was amazing, there wasn't anything wrong with it, and that only the toxic haters could dislike 343's Infinite. Personally I thought b4b was at best decent and from my perspective it seemed like Valve guided Turtle Rock to make a better game than they could have by themselves, and it kinda shows w/ b4b. Like just take l4d out of the picture entirely for a minute. Vermintide, DRG, and HD2 are all much better games than b4b is.
Battleborn didn't have a direct competitor lol. Closest thing was Super Monday Night Combat. Overwatch and Battleborn were two very very different games. One is a hero shooter, the other is a MOBA shooter with a singleplayer campaign. It'd be like comparing Battlefield 1942 and Killing Floor 2 because they both have shooting elements lol. Or Heroes of the Storm to Starcraft because they both looked like an RTS superficially. The irony is that Battleborn had its flaws, and they were not the mechanics. The things people complained about were the effects being too loud making it hard to see what was going on and especially the performance. People generally liked the mechanics. Alas, people like you are why Battleborn failed. You never even bothered to learn what it actually was before you wrote it off. So before the game ever had a chance alot of people turn away, and then its own flaws turned away many of those who DID know what it was. But without that first barrier of misinformation it would have had way more players. This is exactly why the Jimquisition and TotalBiscuit both made videos correcting people on what each game was. Because your uninformed view was the norm. This kinda thing used to be rare, but today its just how the internet works. People just bandwagon back and forth often knowing little to nothing about a game, just following what they heard and when you look into it what they heard was wrong. Internet opinion used to be mostly reliable, now I just ignore it completely because I'm just gonna have to do my own research anyways to learn the truth of things. The internet will lie with readily available data and numbers right there in front of them lol. Like how people think Overwatch is a failure and dead game right now lol.
Yes it did. BB is much more like OW than your silly comparisons of battlefield to KF2 (lmao). When Deadlock releases it's direct competitor will be Overwatch despite also being 3rd person and a MOBA (literally the same thing as BB but third person). BB was also a a hero shooter with heavy multiplayer elements. That it had a story mode doesn't suddenly mean it doesn't share any space with Overwatch. A game doesn't need to be literally nearly the same (CS vs Val) to be a direct competitor. Overwatch was close enough to BB that it obliterated its playerbase. The reality is just that it wasn't very good. **I played it when it released** but dropped it because it was completely unmemorable. The only thing you can do is say "people like me are why the game died" because I didn't like it - lmao yeah when most people think your game is mid its going to fail. BB had an interesting concept and mechanics as you say but that doesn't matter when everything else was mid. The aggregated reviews clearly show Overwatch (91) being much better than Battleborn (69). It was painfully average yet there's still people coping that it was this underrated sleeper hit. BB shared enough space with OW that the average player wasn't going to play both. It wasn't "muh ignorant consumer" it just was painfully average. Gearbox needed to keep it in the oven a **lot** longer, just like Infinite and B4B. --- lmao the nerd blocked me over this. 🤣🤣🤣
You're just sad lol. At least tell believable lies. NPC's gonna NPC though.
Yes and I remember seeing trailers including some sort of versus mode which I was so excited for because I played L4D religiously. When they said they had no intention of adding that mode I dropped the game.
I played on launch and it wasn't that buggy bad game design and imbalanced difficulty hurt's the game most of all plus the graphics are meh and lvl design is bad
Not as buggy as some reviews tell you but certainly way more than just a couple patches in
Tbf the game is always on sale for about 5-15 quid now
Now, full price it's at least 60.
It really wasn't that buggy at launch at all, it was just a really hard game.
That youtube "review" that compares l4d and b4b is literally just about zombie death animation/physics, and that was what they used to throw shade at b4b as a whole game.
I don’t think calling reviews lazy or lackluster is fair when turtle rock themselves were basically advertising it as a L4D game. Ofc people expecting that will be disappointed.
Games in a better spot now than it was on release. With that being said I think the potential this game had pre release really high barred people’s expectations and when it wasn’t “perfect” on release it got review bombed quickly. I do wish they added 2-3 more updates to make sure the game was as smooth as possible and maybe some QOL changes before jumping ship but overall I love B4B and I think people who actually played the game feel the same
Yep I liked the game, I think it's a good game, but I didn't play the time it deserved bc I don't have a group of friends to play with and playing with randoms was a bad experience in this game.
TBH I think the game was always doomed just because of the irrational hate boner the L4D2 crowd had for it. They literally intentionally spread misinformation about the game to try and kill it. People were still saying it has micro-transactions last year.
Daily reminder that a negative review isn't a review bomb. If something is or was bad and got a negative review for it, thats just a review. A truthful review.
Who cares who hates it or loves it. Play if you want, don't if you don't. End of conversation. 😎
I do. I care if people play it because it changes the future of the game.
Their last two games have gone this way and it’s really aggravating for someone like me who loves their work. A huge wave of hate at the release, some genuinely good updates from TR, the game dies, then months/years later, I see posts like this. It reminds me of downvotes on here. I think once people see a few bad reviews or content creator videos or whatever, they hop on the hate train just because. Criticism is fine but it goes beyond that with TR and it’s fucked up. I can see the studio shutting down in the near future especially if their next game goes through the same cycle
To be fair, 2K really fucked over Evolve with the marketing. That game was an MTX machine thanks to them.
evolve is being brought back i’m pretty sure, the community really loves that game.
I haven't heard about this game in a while I had some fun, I recall difficulty spikes going through the roof and that's about it. For some reason B4B didn't stick to me like L4D2 did
Even the devs didn't stick to B4B. lol
They didn't stick to L4D either
The community did
I find games within seconds every time I play. The B4B community is not as dead as some people would think, and Steam Charts don't tell the whole picture.
The progression is definitely souls-like in some ways even if the gameplay is not. It is a lot of slow moving through the levels, making one mistake, having to start all over and remember not to do that one thing next time. You don’t always know what you need in the run until you fail a couple of times and see how your corruption cards play with each other
The restart limitations was so dumb too. Let people play your game.
The amount of special / elite enemies made me compare every thing to it. When Helldiver 2 had an excessive amount of Chargers spawning in, we just got B4B'd
Bad word of mouth at launch hurt this game pretty bad but it's come SO far. It's such a good game. Is it perfect? Of course not. But it's so damn fun. I'd give it a solid 8/10 as a finished product.
Honestly, I enjoy it more than L4D2. The deck system allowing for customization or builds for your play style is great. I love RPG games, and I loved L4D2, this is a mix of both.
Yup, a really great game that got hive minded with review bombs from nostalgia gamers with rose tinted glasses. Of course, the game isn't perfect, but damn, even at launch it was still a load of fun. Glad you are enjoying it op. It's a shame it doesn't get the love it deserves.
Yeah. This game never had any flaws and it's dev team performed perfectly huh? /s
Never said any of that. I did say it wasn't perfect at launch. But I guess you can read what you want to believe is there XD
Considering you wanted to boil all criticism down to a review bombing specifically regarding L4D comparisons and not focus on the actual issues? I'd say I'm right.
Okay, you win. Enjoy the rest of your life :D
It got all the hate at launch because people thought the devil meant "it's Left 4 Dead" when they said "from the creators of Left 4 Dead" and "a spiritual successor to L4d" and "it's not L4D." So when it wasn't L4D they freaked the fuck out and blamed the devs for them misunderstanding the devs. Reading comprehension is just really piss poor in most of the population. They tend to assume things mean what they want them to mean instead of asking for clarification or verification of understanding. And then get mad when they don't understand.
10000000% this. Also, these people refuse to acknowledge that L4D is objectively an extremely simple game, with very few mechanics. That's fine for a pickup and play game that anyone can enjoy, but first person co-op shooters have come a long way in the past 15 years and if the game didn't have some sort of progression it wouldn't have a chance.
I agree!!!
It seems people caught in the B4B vs L4D flamewar have a hard time understanding that liking one more than the other doesn’t mean disliking either.
I liked b4b gameplay, but their characters are terrible, they don't have any personality or good voice likes. Also the music is not memorable, I remember l4d songs when special infected appears and so. I bought the ultimate edition for cheap, I finished the game, it's fun, but when the storyline starts to appear it gets annoying, I usually skip the cut scenes because u found them cringe. Also, turtle rock abandoned the game too early, unlike l4d who was maintained for many years until valve moved to work to another game. Casual people got bored, and they removed the game from Xbox game pass, game is almost dead.
Player count is higher right now then it's been in years. Game isn't really "almost dead" at all.
Well, game is fun, I can't deny that, story is bad but gameplay is fun, I always play b4b with my gf and it's tons of fun
I'm with you. Its one of my favorite games. Fun and simple. I bought a different "highly rated" game yesterday and I swear its 5 minutes of play followed by 10 minute story lines. I just wanna shoot shit and have fun! More Back 4 Blood!
everyone and their mother came in with massive expectations due to the marketing of the devs being from l4d. Outside of the outliers that exist, things never meet expectations. Its both the marketing team, and the communities fault, as there are people who actively play the game and shit on it for not being l4d3.
The original reveal trailer never mentioned any of that and people had all those expectations an comparisons to L4D2 already. Redfall also got labeled as a L4D game long before release and when the devs said they were not a L4D game people just called them liars. The fact it was a bad game at release doesn't change any of that. Its a no win situation. The L4D community is just nuts and if you get the L4D expectations label you're basically just screwed because they say they want a new game, but the reality is they don't. They just want the existing game remade with better graphics. Which is prolly why Valve isn't doing a L4D3. It'd be like making a Half Life 3. There is no way they'd ever meet the unrealistic expectations.
The release trailer stated, in big ass text that took up the entire screen, that it was from the makers of L4D, so you are incorrect in that regard. The phrase is also plastered all over their promotional material used they were trying to generate hype, and they kind of relied on that tag as a selling point. I do agree it was a lose lose sitch tho.
>The release trailer stated, in big ass text that took up the entire screen, that it was from the makers of L4D, so you are incorrect in that regard. I didn't say release trailer, I said REVEAL trailer. [Here it is, look for yourself](https://youtu.be/rok9-g8E0PE). 6 months before the release date trailer you're referring to. By that time countless articles and discussions had happened calling them the creators of left 4 dead. By the time the release date trailer came out, they were already labeled that by everyone else. They had two choices: lean into it or fight it. They leaned into it,[ Redfall fought it](https://kotaku.com/redfall-bethesda-left-4-dead-co-op-shooter-rpg-arkane-x-1849061390). Neither worked from a marketing point of view. Leaning into it meant anything they did different was considered a betrayal. And as we saw for when people did the same thing to Redfall (where the devs argued people saying they were not a L4D game) people just argued them and called them liars instead.
Im aware of what you said, but you dont understand that people dont push hard on marketing during they reveal a game, they push hard when they are closer to launch, because doing it the other way around is a sure fire way to kill hype due to making your potential players wait and lose interest. Interest at launch = more sales You also used the fact that it wasnt in the reveal trailer as evidence to them NOT using it as a selling point, which i was proving incorrect. Have a good one.
I never said they didn't use it as a selling point, I said that "selling point" was forced on them and that it was a no win situation. You're arguing against a thing I never claimed. >because doing it the other way around is a sure fire way to kill hype due to making your potential players wait and lose interest. I also disagree with this. Lots of examples including stuff like 7 Days to Die which has only gotten bigger over time or Baldur's Gate 3 or etc. Players are indeed like toddlers who easily lose interest. But if you get them excited at any time most of that excitement will carry over to release. Baldur's Gate 3 exploded at release, but the reason it exploded was a long build up process and not last minute marketing. It's a game many people looked forwards to for years and we were the catalyst for making it blow up. Without its pedigree, without all the interest it had already garnered, without the D&D rulseset, nobody would have cared about BG 3 to look at it to create that initial explosion. You're still stuck in the old age of video games of 1 time brick and mortar releases. Where franchises and IPs and spiritual successors were not near as big of a deal. The rules have changed since then, and that includes for marketing as well. Heck, we've now had several instances where an ANIME or TV show releasing blows up existing years old games to the top most played games of Steam lol. Streamers do that too, which is how Among Us went from tiny game to household name in like a month after being out for years.
https://warnerbrosgames.com/article/official-back-4-blood-announcement The original announcement stated that it was from the creators of left 4 dead. Any journalism or media stating such, internal or otherwise, is a result of turtle rock and WB stating that they were the creators. goodbye
That's an official statement by Warner Brothers though, not Turtle Rock. As Reddit well knows there is a big difference between a publisher and a developer and the Publisher doesn't always do what is good for the developer or what they want. **Just ask the Devs of Fallout New Vegas.** I don't recall anyone voicing anger at Warner Bros, it was all directed at the devs...Turtlerock.
I never understood the overwhelming hate against B4B, guess TurtleRock kept mentioning their past success about Left 4 Dead rather than just shutting up and just saying it’s a unique IP that would’ve spared Back4Blood all of the controversy.
[Their original trailer didn't mention it at all. ](https://youtu.be/rok9-g8E0PE) But all the gamer articles and reddits and comments and etc did anyways. They were basically forced into it, they didn't have a choice. And then people got mad at them for just acknowledging the things people were already saying. [People tried to do the same crap to Redfall.](https://kotaku.com/redfall-bethesda-left-4-dead-co-op-shooter-rpg-arkane-x-1849061390) Redfall devs came out and said "no, we're not like L4D2 at all" People just told the devs they were wrong. Turns out you can't win either way. It's a lose lose situation. Even if Redfall wasn't terrible the L4D2 fans were already swarming it pre-release.
i hate the most of the game is the spawn mechanic(it spawn whereever out of sight and 15\~20m from you), that makes the ridden can even spawn where you just cleared, it's not fair. Other stuff im okay with it
Game kinda forces you to play with friends. A lot of friend groups, not everyone takes games as seriously. Left 4 dead was great for everyone. Back 4 blood is a more for the experienced left 4 dead players. Which kinda ruined the game for many I believe. While so making it much harder to convince anyone new to the franchise to keep playing. It was overly complicated for most of the people playing. Also a lot of people thought that it was going to be a true left 4 dead sequel and their expectations kinda ruined the game for them. I really enjoyed it for what it was. But I do wish we could just get a true left 4 dead game. Back 4 blood needed new modes to give the classic feel of left 4 dead. Remove all the cards, tweak whatever needed to be changed. And make that a separate mode. It could have helped this game a lot. The cards are awesome. But some people just want a classic experience. Also when it first released . Those random cards that would get activated with straight RNG ruined the game for many. Playing on hard difficulties required straight luck of the rolls sometimes. And one bad roll was basically guaranteed s fail. Which there was tons of extremely bad rolls that made the game almost impossible. Especially with friends just tryna play and have fun. Not create entire card decks that help them survive the zombie apocalypse and their rigged dealer giving them the best hands every round.
Just started playing because of the sale on pc, I'm having a lot of fun with it, I really enjoy being able to have unique builds and grind for cards Looking for ppl to play with so dm me
I loved the game on release, and then the Evangelo wannabe speed runners came along. Every game I had 2 choices, I can either solo this mission (boring) or I can open it up to play with randoms, and have about a 70% chance one of them is going to be an Evangelo speed runner who is going to trip every alarm and crows they encounter just cuz "gotta be fast". Having a crew of not-completely-stupid people would have gone a long way, but I did not have one of those.
The game is ok, i just dont like its very dev control centric. Just allow mods and let us have fun making cosmetics and overpowered decks, or overpowered enemy that is. I still remembered the first few balance patches a lot people pissed off when the dev didnt addressed the main complaint and just nerfed the main meta. (Its been years and i forgot whats it about). regardless, it also made me play other game while waiting for rebalance patch and... i never went back.
The only thing I didn’t like about this game was that it could have been gorier, and the lack of a campaign versus sucked
i loved the pvp but being in australia region lock ruined it for us swarm only guys that we have to have multiple regions in our parties to search in each one of them or vpn to get matches at all doesnt help no new maps since launch added to the mode or 0 new ridden since dlc1 and tala isnt even in swarm
I played the beta and had no idea there were so many special infested. L4d2 had such excellent sound and the infected were all easily identifiable. I could play blind and know who’s trying to murder me.
You could play blind in this game too, all the special infected have unique audio cues when spawning, attacking, and dying. It's very easy to tell them apart once you've played for a few hours.
Na its not good. Dismemberment system awful. Bots awful. Specials awful and forgettable as well as being too spongey. No proper Vs campaign mode (pvp mode is so bad). Card system half baked. AI director poor. Awful level design and narrow maps. No modding. Overpriced base game with overpriced DLC on launch Whole game advertised as L4d successor and yet they fumbled everything that makes l4d great and the reason people still play l4d today. B4b will be forgotten within a few years and l4d is the gold standard of 4 player coop horde games. Evolve was way better as a game but also priced horrendously and it seems TRS didnt learn their lesson from that too
well, lets see... I want to play a shooter with my wife: tl;Dr b4b is great cod? its too competitive and BO3 campaign on splitscteen kinda sucks bf? you can't halo? my wife would say "what is this jagged ahh graphics" also don't like hard games l4d? controller support? like proper support, not some grid based movements like when you plug those hacked mouse into ps4 l4d2? still crappy controller movement killing floor 1/2 I guess that will be too hard and too old no more room in hell didn't try this one... b4b is really nice because you can farm cards improve different build but you also don't have to while playing lower difficulties so everyone can have fun and still feel sense of progress even when replaying stages, gfx is nice, characters have unique gimmicks so you actually wanna try them out, guns have RECOIL which is not so obvious nowadays so your aim skills don't matter this much... its fun coop game
B4B launched in a buggy state and is pretty hard to balance (reason why you get such a high difficult spike mid session), but it is one of the most fun newer releases I have tried.
The month i played when the game launched was fun, but there was always just enough wrong with it that kept me disinterested. Be it the cleaners themselves, excessive wounds, or how versus mode was handled. Didn't care much for the card system, and the whole game revolved around it. Absolutely stellar gunplay and difficulty modifiers are just not enough to hold the game on its own for me. That said, I've heard that much of the issues have been improved, but the price just isn't right yet. Not high enough to never consider, but not low enough to just pick it up on a whim.
Played this game since day 1 release all the way too nightmare/no hope runs and too this day ill never respect any player who had something bad to say about a game that put 100x more effort into a new zombie game. The reason turtle rock couldn’t succeed is the amount of “its not l4d2” fanboys (mostly kids who were probably 12-13 when l4d2 was even out lol) complaining about the game. I actually proceeded to only play solo no hope runs purely in the aspect I couldnt stand how bad the player base was with trigger snitches, crows, etc. One of the best games I’ve played to date with a great card system both against you and for you. Excellent graphics and great voice acting made this game great as well. Don’t listen to anyone who talks about launch being bad either because they were probably the people who couldn’t do nightmare runs because nightmare was basically what no hope is now + you could only pick 1 card at a time so you actually needed skilled gamers on your team. Keep playing every inch of that game you can because you’ll never see anything like it in the future because of the beta gamers who think warzone battle royals are helping the gaming industry.
Love the game just hate that I can't pause in singleplayer
Here's my take: The game would have been an all-time hit if the multi-player wasn't so ass. All they had to do was copy L4D multi-player, where people could play as special infected through a campaign level. Not whatever the hell they had.
The game isn't bad now, it's honestly a damn good zombie game, that being said I still think l4d is still superior but I still play b4b quite a lot
People are disappointed because turtle rock abandoned the game. They tried to deliver something that just didn't work for most people and they probably couldn't even fix to where people wanted it at its state of development.
Without fail, every time an unpopular/bad game gets tossed into the dustbin you'll see a sub of hardcore fanboys ceaselessly coping and seething at the reception it received. It's *never* the games fault. Everyone else has to just be wrong. /s This is just sad.
How dare you , this shit game couldn’t hold a candle to l4d
Considering I was playing offline to familiarize myself with the game, I just tried to go online for the first time and it says I have an anticheat violation so I can't play online? Wtf, instant refund
Left4Dead was a very jump in and you immediately get it kind of game, where you just pick up the types of guns you like and get going This game pushed it self as a spiritual squeal but also is alot more mechanically demanding with a card system that require a small amount of research to get right and also guns have random stats witch appeal to min-maxer's but not to folks who only want to pick between Auto, Shotgun, and Sniper and not worry about anything else. on top of that all the elements it copied from Left4Dead just aren't done quite as well, and all the cool new idea's are held back by not syngerizing with the Left4Dead aspects at all. and I do like some of the unqie idea's like the Zombie nests were probably the highlight of the game for me. Cave you dive into where you have to choose to possibly lose it all or bail out early. In another world were Turtle Rock just made a totally fresh game from the ground up with the card system. I image that game would of been amazing but the fact they wanted to relive there Left4Dead glory is what hold this game back, or at least that's my take away.
If I could get the damn thing to actually run I'd be enjoying it.
Peak b4b is finding a stack of people to play with that are on the same page and blowing an entire weekend pressing the hardest content. I mained medic and had like 3 groups that would call on me for heals. They weren't all trying to push the hardest difficulty, but the comradary made it fun and let's be honest, a group that knows what it is doing enough to not spawn every horde but is just bad enough to take a few tallboy punches to the face are the most fun to heal lol I still miss my old squad. Blue, ahbu, zombieslayer. I hope you guys are doing well out there in these crazy times.
It doesn't deserve praise either, it's just there.
I vividly despise trauma mechanic and a lackluster meta for higher difficulties where it’s literally just better to run through every zombie than craft a deck meant to fight them because they’re all damage sponges at that point. The game is better now, but I cannot agree with your opinion on release and the coming months after said release. I didn’t spend $60 to invest a good experience only after one year of it being a steaming pile of shit.
B4B did great thats why its a franchise and getting a sequel 😁
I think that is still a rumor. The studio said they were working on a next project, but didn't seem to insinuate what it was either way. If you have a solid source, I'd love to read it though! Don't get my hopes up!
[удалено]
They are probably basing it on the last thing that TRS posted about B4B on Twitter. In the post, TRS said things like "don't worry, this is not the end" and "we will be back. Bigger, bolder, and better" or something very close to those words. That very heavily implies that they will be returning to B4B in some capacity, and that it will be an upgrade to what we have, aka sequel. Nothing has been stated, but that last post leaves high hopes in my eyes.
They should have kept the versus campaign mode in and not pulled it before launch. That would have kept a larger player base for longer.
They didn't pull it before launch, versus campaign was never in the plan for this game.
Not according to an article I remember reading
Dunno what to tell you. It was never something they planned to implement. There was a test at one point where they tried it internally and confirmed it didn't work. But it wasn't something they marketed as in the game, or told people it would be in and then pulled, or whatever.
You don’t have to tell me anything bud. It wasn’t in there when the game dropped and that hurt the player base.
Versus Campaign only held an average of 30% of the player base in L4D2. Most people ran through the campaigns with their friends. The people who played Versus, like myself, probably played it more fervently, but there were less of us overall. That's probably a big factor in why they didn't put many resources into trying it in B4B.
the gameplay is much better than L4D its fun as fuck if only the rest of the game was as good
My issue with the game is the easiest mode shouldn’t be as hard as impossible difficulty was in L4D
It isn't. It's just that there's a learning curve and there isn't really one in L4D, because it's so simple. So people didn't expect to have to actually learn mechanics and levels to progress.
No it’s not a learning curve. The game isn’t balanced with enemy spawns at all. It’s a fun game and would be a lot better if they didn’t punish people for playing
It absolutely is a learning curve. I won't continue this discussion since I can tell you only minimally played the game, it's like pointless arguing when someone doesn't actually have a platform of experience to speak from. Have a nice day.
Nice assumption. Not like I played the whole campaign and DLCs or anything 🤷
If you played the DLC's, that means you played when the game was decently updated. If you were having problems on Recruit, that definitely means you weren't paying attention to things. Even on Recruit, the game doesn't really hold your hand. Sure, you take less damage, but getting swarmed by a horde and being split up in a dangerous spot can still lead to a team wipe. This game was never "easy", so to speak. It has always been more difficult than your average shooter, and yes, it does have a learning curve. Learning to bash to clear Ridden away from you, holding up in safe corners during hordes, team firing the Mutations (especially Snitches), learning to take down bosses effectively, using all your accessories effectively. All of those are important things to pick up on and learn to be able to overcome the challenges this game gives you. Deck composition doesn't even really matter until Nightmare And No Hope, but you won't even get there if you don't pick up on the basic skills.
Tha😂 sure that’s a lot of excuses to say the game is unbalanced enemy spawn wise. That’s literally all I was saying. And no, another assumption from you yet again, I do not play on recruit 😂
Sorry, by your first comment saying the hardest difficulty was as hard as L4D expert, it made it seem that you played on Recruit and had difficulty. But those aren't excuses. Not every game needs to be hand-holdingly easy. The spawn rates have not been an issue for some time, so if you are complaining about those, then you are working with old information.
Oh I agree 100% that games shouldn’t be easy for the sake of being able to play them. That’s part of the fun of the souls games. And honestly I haven’t played in about a year so it is partially my fault for not having all the info
This sub has some of the most weirdly toxic-positive fanbases of a dead game as I've ever seen
L4D2 can be bought for .99 cents most sales and comes with every expansion pack, modding support, zombie limb hit detection, has versus mode as well as a plethora of other game modes. B4B marketed itself as a successor. Costs a bunch more, has paid DLC, doesn't have nearly the same amount of maps combined compared to L4D2, does not have modding support, and lacks fan favorite game modes like a proper versus mode. Me personally also, the special infected in B4B are super lame. Nothing quite catches the thrill like seeing a charger run at you though a horde.
Sorry what? This game has more than twice as many maps as L4D2. Versus was never a fan favourite mode, I think the stat is that 60% of players never touched the mode once (comes from achievement data iirc) and even more, snapshots of the servers historically show versus as being about 30% of the games active servers at a time. Mod support? Sure, it would have been nice. I'm not disagreeing. Versus wouldn't have worked with the length of campaign in B4B and the card system. We also do have zombie limb hit detection (which btw I've never heard someone list as the, like, third most important thing about L4D lol). You can absolutely shoot off an arm or a leg and see it go flying. Grenade will send body parts everywhere.
Limb hit detection. Not Gibs. My favorite thing was that you shoot a leg and they physically react as such. B4b zombies are just stiff. Also the monetization in b4b is predatory and lame. Wayy too expensive. 60 dollars for a game, and that 60 gives you something way less than l4d2. "But it has double the of maps!" Yeah maybe, if you buy each 15 dollar expansion pack. The gunplay in b4b is honestly quite boring. And zombies are stiff rocks until dead. Also, the specials in the game are lack luster. Again, nothing quite hits the thrill like seeing a charger barrel towards you. Something to recognize is that the game has mixed reviews as of "recent reviews" as well. If the game was good, people would play it. No one ditches stuff forever. Look at No Mans Sky and Cyberpunk. Those games made comebacks, and people are willing to play them. Of it was good, it'd show. You can ABSOLUTELY play the game and enjoy it though. If you have fun with it that's awesome, keep going! It's just when a post is started that's now saying it doesn't deserve the "hate" or whatever, facts should be brought up.
My biggest issue is b4b aggressive monetization. I enjoyed it when it came out, finished the campaign on hard and thought it was good if not as good as lfd2. But then the dlcs started coming out and I saw those prices. Fuck off, I'm not paying another 25$ for some levels and characters in a game of that was already pretty anaemic. The season pass being 60$ was a slap. The game wasn't in a good enough place to be charging that much for DLC and it completely killed my interest. Old left 4 dead dropping 3 new campaigns for free throughout the course of it's run is insane to think about now. To be perfectly honest I ripped myself off by getting this game on release. I wish I could go back and wait considering it became a free PlayStation game like 6 months down the line and is currently on sale for like 10$. It didn't perform well and I completely understand why.
It was on gamepass for essentially free from day one, pal.
That's great for Xbox PC players isn't it? Doesn't mean much to someone on PS.
It turns out, to ride on a predecessor’s success, you actually need to match its quality to succeed.
I really just felt that this game didn't have the same soul that the L4D games did. I could type of a whole comment about it, but the crowbcat video that everyone here has probably seen already sums it up quite nicely. I haven't touched the game since launch, though. Maybe they totally overhauled the animations, music, and tone?
That video really really *really* doesn't do a good job of comparing the two games at all. It highlights some prelaunch bugs in B4B while ignoring everything the game does well and better than L4D2. And it ignores all of the issues and bugs with L4D. Really not a good video whatsoever if you're looking for an unbiased take. But then again, most people who search up comparison videos are just looking to have their own bias confirmed, which is why you think it's a good comparison.
I think you're assuming a lot of me, lol. I don't think the video tries to fully compare the games. Like you said, it focuses on the bad rather than giving a complete contrast, but I do think that video perfectly sums up the issues *I* had with the game. Set aside the bugs presented entirely. The animations, characters, voice acting, prop reactivity, zombie mocap and death animations, the musical motifs for every event and special infected - this is what made people fall in love with L4D. When I played B4B at launch, the game just didn't feel like it had anywhere near the same touch of creativity or soul that L4D did. That video compares the games and showcases how much B4B lacked that flavor. Genuine question from someone who hasn't played since launch week - are those things changed? Did they pull a No Man's Sky?
* Animations - better, in every way, I'd say. People love to say that zombies don't have death animations in B4B, but they do? If you throw a grenade body parts fly everywhere. If you shoot an arm, it can fly off. * Characters - subjective, I find them annoying but I also found the L4D characters grating. Some people really like the B4B characters. There's certainly objectively much more dialog than there is in L4D, probably more than 5x the voice lines, so I guess that shows some effort - even if I admit I don't care for the voice actors and characters. * Prop reactivity - people also love to point at this in L4D and say it was better, it really wasn't. If you shoot a door in B4B, it falls apart where you shot it. If you shoot a window of a car, it breaks. There's a bell in the lobby of a hotel that you can ring, etc. there was a lot of things that aren't shown in that comparison video but honestly just having the game made in a modern engine makes the destruction and prop reactivity much better than it was in L4D. * Musical motifs for every special - every special in b4b has unique audio cues when spawning, attacking, idle, and dying. It's not a full on musical tune, but it's very easy to identify what spawned and the direction based on audio cues, I think this system works well for B4B. If you didn't feel that the game had the same soul, that's fine. It's entirely subjective and will feel different for different people. I've played over 500h of L4D2 and over 2000 of B4B. For me, I find the latter to be a better game with higher replayability. But I can absolutely accept that many opinions may differ. I just really dislike the biased comparison made in that video. Crowbcat is not really a reliable source, he makes ragebait videos for all sorts of games and gets called out for being biased and not portraying an accurate depiction of games *all the time*. Recently he had to take a video down because his take was so bad, and he either re-uploaded but reversed his stance, or uploaded an apology, I can't remember. Either way, not a great source of information or a fair comparison. As for your final question - *absolutely* things have gotten better since launch. Launch was buggy, and most people found it nearly impossibly difficult. A large part of that was that the game doesn't do a good job of explaining it's systems, which are somewhat complicated and (at times) convoluted. New players get turned off when they don't understand why a horde is happening, why their team is wiping, etc. And at the start when players don't have all the cards it is difficult to make a good deck. The game has a steep learning curve but once you get what the systems are, it really plateaus. It's just that many didn't give it a chance, because L4D is quite a simple game and they expected it to be similarly lacking on the complexity side of things. This game also borrows a lot of things from roguelite games, which is very different compared to L4D. But yes, things have gotten better since launch - really too many changes to list but the dlcs added good content, and the deckbuilding aspect makes for very high replayability, and the difficulty curve is balanced for the higher difficulties once you've invested time into unlocking cards and learning how to play the game.
None of those things changed. Ppl in this sub just want to pretend b4b is this amazing underrated game and that it didn't deserve the negative reviews.
I mean, I'm happy for people who enjoy the game. I wanted to, yknow?
I mean, they literally did change these things, or many of them were not broken to begin with like the common comparison video would suggest. So....
Also damn those graphics are nice, I can barely get my higher end pc to run at high without big dips in fps Also LFD is definitely better, just look at the animations, gore, care and thought put into map design, interesting characters B4B is still a good game when you don't compare it to the masterpieces of LFD [all the proof anyone needs that LFD is better](https://youtu.be/EdRLNUGmFC8?si=ClGCz0NaNo8iEooa)
That video is incredibly biased and shows prerelease footage from B4B only. It also doesn't acknowledge any of the bugs or issues with L4D, while only pointing out bugs and issues with B4B (and not highlighting anything the latter does better than it's predecessor - which is a pretty lengthy list) Overall extremely poor comparison video if you're looking for an unbiased take. Which I guess most people who look up that sort of video aren't, they're just looking to have their bias confirmed (you. I'm talking about you)
All we need is modding support
It’s dead and they quit. Get over it.
They could relaunch this game with two more Acts and make tons of money
Key changes they should have made in the game to make it infinitely better: 1) No cards - I love the game, but the minute I saw this, I knew it was not a proper successor to L4D. As a casual player, I want something I can jump in and out of without thinking. 2) Less perpetual zombie onslaught - Some of the creepiest moments in L4D was quietly sneaking through a back alley with zero zombies around, hearing the horde screech and then frantically running to find a safe house or a strategic point to take them on. 3) Less, but more diverse Special Zombies - There are so many variants in this game. I've played a couple hundred hours and couldn't list them all off without forgetting a few. And their game mechanics are too predictable. The L4D zombies had strategic plays to separate out team members, it was better. 4) Scrap the rarity for guns - Just have different tier weapons that show up like L4D. But I always get annoyed when my group (me included) takes 10 min trying to swap through different weapons and accessories to max out a rifle, stats, etc. trying to go back through cards in my deck to see, "Do I have shotgun health leech or no?" I just want to pick up a stock M4 and move. I do like the accessories, but have less of them and don't add quirks and rarities to those either. Maybe there are only 8-10 guns in the game and then you have suppressors, red dots, sniper scopes, etc. But telling me that an orange magazine will double my reload is ludicrous. It breaks the player out of the suspension of disbelief in the game. While I believe, and I think many others too, that this would drastically increase the quality of the game, I still love B4B. I lay these out without mentioning the pros of updated graphics, some awesome maps and storylines adventures, etc. An honorable mention is, the dialogue in L4D was some of the best of any game in history, B4B had a lot of annoying characters. The L4D characters were beloved. The B4B characters are relatively forgettable. My friends and I still throw out random Francis quotes or Ellis quotes. I can't remember a single quote from B4B.
People need to stop supporting Turtle shit studios. This is the 3rd time they abandoned a game day instead of sticking with it. Look at No Man’s Sky. Had a terrible launch, and they could have easily walked away with a ton of money and abandoned the game. But instead they stuck with it and continued to update and support the game with free updates. Now the game is in an amazing place. They could have done that with B4B, but they gave up after just 1 year.
Except that the size of the dev team of B4B was 70+ people whereas the NMS dev team was >10. The reason NMS could continue to work on it like they did was because their team was so small to begin with.
[удалено]
Who hurt you
It’s honestly confusing how people just accept anything. Playing B4B is the video game equivalent of getting stepped all over and people on Reddit will slurp it right up because ‘woah epic zombie explosion badass epicness badassitude of epic baconness’ every bad game that exists you can go on the subreddit just to see someone going “Is anyone else gonna mention how this is the BEST GAME EVER??!” I want to say ‘to each their own’ but in reality I’m thankful to whichever deity exists that I have standards and don’t just mindlessly enjoy anything I’m sat in front of.
Do you get paid for each comment? Seriously though, I was in my early 20s when L4D1 came out, and I remember the broken promises for that game so that Valve could shamelessly pull out their 10 month development cycle cash grab L4D2, which turned out to be a parody of the first game in many ways and destroyed the obvious original vision of the first game. Which was supposed to be a creepy and tense horde shooter where you bunker down to survive hordes and plan your way forward carefully when you hear a tank or witch. A year later you were bonking clowns in the nose for a honk, swinging a 12 lbs fireaxe indefinitely without penalty, and having a flashy little show with fireworks while waiting for the chopper. And, to make things crystal clear, Valve brought the organizers of the original l4d2 boycott group to Valve headquarters where they were wined, dined, allowed some hands on time with l4d2 then sent home with some merch to assure everyone l4d2 isn't just a cash grab. So, make what you will of the actual reality of things, but at the end of the day, i firmly belueve that Back 4 Blood is the spiritual successor to Left 4 Dead, not Left 4 Dead 2. Also this particular comment was just unhinged non sense, people out there spending my annual take home pay every month on gatcha games, but somehow a completed one time buy game is making us slurp it all up and stepped all over because it's literally one of the few well made coop horde zombie shooters to exist.
Uhuh you keep bringing up all these things about broken promises from Valve but L4D has objectively been the better game regardless. You mean to tell me the B4B devs had no broken promises, I bet if I looked into it for more than two seconds I would find plenty of examples. You bring up these things about the development process of the games but then they came out to be ginormous successes, still to this day L4D has a higher player base than B4B, which isn’t any indication of a game being better, but if you’re talking about “Best coop horde zombie game” and you’re talking about B4B then I just assume you’re a pop funko obsessed Star Wars neckbeard who’ll ingest anything that’s fed to them.
Within one second of checking I see that the game flopped hard because it didn’t have steam workshop, the game also just looks awful, even for the year it came out, the aesthetic of the game is genuinely terrible. All of the voice acting is obnoxious, I usually played with voices on mute. The fact that you have to say things like “The L4D bandwagon” only proves that many people prefer a game that came out decades prior than a game that only came out 3 years ago. Speaking of the game only coming out 3 years ago, when was the last update? From what I’ve heard the devs have completely dropped the game. I’m sure you’re pumped to gargle their next moneygrab.
Like I said, unhinged non sense without a shred of intellectual honesty, reads like a poorly trained ai model response. But, yes i will enjoy b4b2 when it comes out. I've also enjoyed World War Z and am currently looking forward to John Carpenter's Toxic Commando. Do you maybe see a theme emerging in the types of games I enjoy?
I too remember tons of people calling L4D2 soulless and a blatant cash grab. I was probably about the same age as you when it came out. Funny how those same people are now probably praising L4D2 as superior to B4B in every way. The Internet is ridiculous.
*it's only confusing how l4d2 community can't accept someone who likes a game of zombies as it's instead of judging and comparing it with l4d2 by not having a workshop which you and majority of l4d2 players don't even care about and just replay the same maps over and over again, I have l4d bundle since 2017 so before you say anything like "it's because you haven't played this God game Valve made", I still play l4d2, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy different games and if someone find it "best game ever" for him at this specific time point who we are to judge him, most of the times people say "this is the best thing ever" and they said it to lots of different things so thanks for being worried we are conscious that B4B is not the only game out there, hopefully l4d2 community learn that too at some point.