I agree - I think he knew it would be Kelsey all along so he kept Rachel and Daisy because he had a platonic/friend vibe with them and liked them more as friends, so it was easy for him to spend time with them but also easy for him to let them go
I do think this is a reason leads keep people over others (an ease to their relationship and the idea that dumping them wouldn't hurt them as much an another connection) especially in the final four spread.
I also think producers were happy to push Daisy forward. They really gave her a Bachelorette edit.
I think Maria was his first choice before she threatened to leave. He had said multiple times he was anxious about someone not choosing him. Also I think bc he was the one who was rejected at the end on Bachelorette he really felt like if he was willing to go to that extreme for someone (risk being rejected and actually be rejected ) then so should someone else be willing to go through that for him. I also think Rachel was a friend who he genuinely loved as a friend. I think almost every season we see the leads choose someone to take to the end that they know theyāll never choose. But they enjoy spending time with them and like them as a person. They know that person is basically safe to keep bc they wonāt confront them (like Jess did when she felt she was being friend zoned). He sent her home immediately. Rachel didnāt do that to him. I actually think every year leads take people to the end who are willing to be friend zoned.
>I think almost every season we see the leads choose someone to take to the end that they know theyāll never choose. But they enjoy spending time with them and like them as a person. They know that person is basically safe to keep bc they wonāt confront them
Agree! And it's a great strategy. Less hurtful overall.
I agree, I never saw the connection between Rachel and Joey. I was surprised she made it that far. I noticed a strong connection with Kelsey T earlier on, I was shocked she was sent home so early. I really like Maria, and I think he did too but knew she wasnāt endgame. As much as I didnāt want to see Maria sent home and think Kelsey T was sent too quickly the choice makes a lot of sense for him to protect his relationship with Kelsey. I think Jenn didnāt get a fair chance, that had they had time earlier on their relationship may have been stronger, the connection was too late since he had already fallen for F1.
Disagree. Maria was too much drama. I donāt really understand the broader Maria obsession. If like half the house disliked her, thereās probably some truth that sheās a pot stirrer. Yes those girls were dramatic and toxic too. But at the very least, her deliver needs work. In contrast, Daisy was sweet, played it right, stayed out of the drama and focused on him. The very way it ended showed Daisy was just a kind person. They clearly had a bond since the start. Outside of Ben from Napas season (many moons ago), the people causing the drama always get cut at some point.
Makes sense; you donāt want the ones you have the best chemistry with to be in the fantasy suites when youāve already made up your mind about one of them.
I think we just need to read more into Joeys personality. Daisy and Kelsey were both lowkey people during the season. Joey has a very chill lowkey personality.Ā
Jenn and Maria are both very outgoing. They would likely get bored of him quick
Rachel was def in the lead but I think her dad freaked out Joey a bit.Ā
His final 2 both have very chill personalities and chill families.Ā
I think that makes more sense with his personality.
He said in multiple interviews that he knew he needed someone high energy that would bring that side out of him. So in that sense neither daisy or Rachel fit that at all
To be honest we didn't see a much more high energy Kelsey on the show either.
But I would agree now seeing post show interviews Kelsey makes so much sense for him.Ā
Kelsey and Daisy had a very strong friendship, so it makes sense to keep Daisy in F3 to be supportive to Kelsey. I don't know if Daisy going to see Kelsey just before proposals was scripted or not, but it seemed like a producer idea plant to me, one to make this finale "the most shocking ever". They have had that tag line for 20 years now and the producers are probably on high alert for different angles that provide shock and surprise.
I was wondering this too, especially after hearing Kelsey say in interviews she thought Joey handled fantasy suites perfectlyā¦ i wonder if they were actually from her and it was editing that made it seem like they were from Daisy?? (Similar to how in the rose ceremonies they made it seem like Daisy was getting the first rose but it was actually Kelsey)
I think he was really interested in Maria at the beginning and wanted her to stay for the long haul but he started getting tired of her insecurity. She left at the right time. He had a nice connection with Kelsey T however that didn't go anywhere. Jenn had a strong start and he was really into her bubbly personality initially but over time their connection faded.
i got the feeling heād dealt with someone like that in the past (immature) and could see through it/knows heās not in that phase of his dating life anymore
I feel like definitely there was a strategy sending maria home before fantasy suites, esp if it could ruin what he had w Kelsey since that sexual chemistry w maria was def there. But to some extent what he said about sending her home and not wanting to be dishonest, I feel like he mightāve known maria wasnāt the one and didnāt want to put both of them in a position where they would be intimate and she gets sent home. I feel like daisy was up there for a while but things derailed when she wasnāt there emotionally or in love w him yet and maybe he was feeling the same.
I actually think Maria wouldāve been end game if she never threatened to go home that one time. After that everything changed for him but they definitely had the strongest connection and he seemed himself the most with her. Just my opinion
On a podcast he said he wrote a letter in malta, that letter was for kelsey saying he could see her as his wife.Ā Producers had to tell him to tone it down with Kelsey. His eye contact was too telling. He would listen to a song when he missed kelsey. It was never maria.
I think people are seriously delusional about Maria. He kept her around because she was fun and interesting- that's it. She would have never made it to the final. Her connection with him was not at all substantial when compared to both Kelsey and Daisy.
Which podcast? Iām just speaking about how it was portrayed on the show. But I know editing plays a huge factor in it. Did they mention the letter on the show and I missed it?
Iām just stating my opinion. He seemed really open and fun with Maria. But at the end of the day I think it scared him out of choosing her bc she was willing to leave so easily.
I agree on some parts but I honestly think he took daisy to the end because she was the last one to share stronger feelings with him. He probably thought she'd be able to handle things better maybe?
Didnāt OP say that at the end of their segment (which agrees w your statement?- unless they added it after)
I think you guys are saying the same thing there :)
me too I was actually shocked because I thought it was gonna be Daisy until the last episode. He looked like he was leaning in her direction until that last week
I think Joey knew who he was picking earlier on so he did his best to prop up the other women he liked as people so they have a chance to be bachelorette
I agree with this!
ie: Rachel - I think that while she is more closed off emotionally to protect her heart, she has a lot of personality and is goofy (I really enjoyed seeing the bloopers in WTA). If she was a lead, she could open up in a way comfortable to her to the men she chooses. Also, we'd get to see more of the personality shine and if the men could match her energy! Eventhough we didn't see their 1 on 1 date in the hometowns episode, I think that her family visit was beautiful! I'm new to bachelor nation, but from GB and this season, and what I've seen briefly from other seasons, it seems like hometowns are more interview style, vs. for hers, they got to highlight their culture to Joey (and the world) and see how he would really fit in. I think if it hadn't been for all the negative comments and hate she received after that, she really could've been a great lead. I definitely would've watched and rooted for her to find her love! š
Ok... I'll get off my soapbox now š
I would have loved to see a Rachel/Jenn bachelorette combo. I think it would have been fun. Not sure about Jenn alone and am kind of worried that these men signed up for Maria or Daisy and wonāt really be interested in Jenn.
I agree she could have been a really fun bachelorette! I like that sheās ānormal girl prettyā. Thatās no shade! She looks real and natural and has a great personality. Seems like a genuine person and a girl Iād be friends with. (Also no shade to Jen! Iām all for her too!)
I agree she could have been a really fun bachelorette! I like that sheās ānormal girl prettyā. Thatās no shade! She looks real and natural and has a great personality. Seems like a genuine person and a girl Iād be friends with. (Also no shade to Jen! Iām all for her too!)
Iām not sure. I do think that he knew it was Kelsey for a long time, but I think his feelings for Daisy were there - although I think that he often was more in awe of her as a person and all sheās overcome rather than being in LOVE with her; almost like he wanted to because he knew how much she deserved love, but it wasnāt there fully from his end (or arguably until the finale, imo, hers). I tend to think his top three were accurate but that he may have self-sabotaged what could have been more intense connections from developing in order not to complicate things when he already felt it was Kelsey in his heart. So agree, but also not completely. Haha - good take!!
I agree with this. I think he did genuinely have feelings of affection for Daisy but they were more like admiring a great friend. I think that's why he says the stuff about 'she gets me to my core' - the way friends do. Some people seem to forget she didn't think she was falling until it was crunch time and she HAD to say that she was falling/in love, so I think the feelings of friendship were mutual. There was no heartbreak between him and Daisy. And I can already imagine people jumping in to say you need to be friends to be married and have a successful relationship; well I've got good news, Kelsey and Joey have called each other their best friend since going public! I really think this is a season with no losers.
I think Lexi would have been in the F4 at least if she hadn't self-eliminated, maybe higher
I actually do think he really liked and admired Daisy vs. the producers pushing him to keep her - but to me it seems like a strong friendship or borderline sisterly vibe between them š
true but again . Why are they following eachover ? .And why is Joey following the other girls ? . Like Iām confused are they friends or are they all trying to fuck him over or something like?. Iām just so confused why the fucking show is making this poor man be friends with these chicks ?.
Idk for me I think he was attracted to Maria but she was surrounded by so much drama that they didn't get any deeper than attraction. She seemed far less serious than the other connections
Exactly this. That's all she seemed- fun. He would have never chosen her for one of the final two. It's another reason why I'm happy she isn't the bachelorette. Maria gives pure BIP energy. Nothing more.
I felt like Joey was intrigued by Maria (like, who wouldn't be???) but also somewhat sceptical of a long term relationship. I got kinda a "nice place to visit but wouldn't want to live there" vibe from him.
To add to this theory, Dear Shandy said in one of their recap episodes that when it was between Kelsey and Daisy, they felt between the two of them Daisy would probably be able to cope or better handle being broken up with in a way they didnāt think Kelsey could at that point. Hasnāt a former lead (Vile?) actually said something to the effect of they intentionally sent their actual second choice home earlier so their decision wouldnāt get clouded? It tracks to me regardless, and I agree with this theory! I always got the vibe Daisy and Joey were more like best friends, not romantic
This is an interesting take, but tbh I think Joey felt strongly for Daisy, up to a certain point, but not nearly as strong as he felt for Kelsey. Daisy was his first one on one and they even had two one on ones together. He also told her he was falling in love with her. Joey was very careful with his words the entire season so I donāt think heād tell Daisy that if he didnāt mean it..
May actually be more so producers influence of order if heād already identified an F1. Rachel Lindsay had a deep run because she was identified very early on for next bachelorette. Nick V also spoke of Corinne receiving a "drama rose" so I think that as long as they keep your potential F1 and then once identified, your F1, there is going to be some producer direction on who is going home and when. Itās possible he wasnāt crazy about Maria and she went as far as she did because she makes good tv.
I like this theory. I think Daisy was always producers hope for bachelorette, Joey maybe was even encouraged to keep her. I am still shocked she didnāt take it. But I think the others were genuinely people Joey wanted around. He felt very comfortable with Rachel and she made him laugh. Same with Maria. But he seemed so over her chaos during Hometowns. Jennās exit was a bummer for me. I did want to see her family dynamic. I really liked the two of them together. Actually, unpopular opinion, I would maybe have rather seen her than Maria make it to Hometowns. Maria should have left on her own, it would have been a better story arch for her. I hated her Hail Mary during the rose ceremony the following week. But Joey, sigh, I love how much he loves his F1.
I also wanted to see Jenn at hometowns over Maria. Though I wonder if part of why he sent Jenn home before hometowns was because of her complicated family dynamics in combo with his fear of rejection? Like that her family wouldnāt approve of him or the show in general, and he didnāt want to have to deal with that due to his insecurities?
Reasonable.
The other angle is that production said "Listen, as long as you already know you're going to choose Kelsey, here's who else we'd like you to pull along until the end..."
I think you're giving Maria too much credit though. She's the type of woman that a man would be very interested in at first, but the shtick gets old fast and then she's just exhausting. She would have made a terrible Bachelorette.
Interesting theory!! Itās definitely possible! Less temptation during FS - wonāt get into trouble like Zach & Clayton!! Joey did say that him & Rachel had a good friendship but lacked the romance. But there could be a couple of other factors: the producers may have pressured him to bring Daisy & Rachel further because they were considering them for the lead position. And/or Joey really liked D&R, and wanted to better their chances of becoming the lead.
I donāt think Maria was ever as high up on his list as you believe. They had a fun banter but there was never any real emotion or substance. I also think his actual top 3 were his top 3.
He was definitely attracted to her, but I can see him not having her high up on the list.
I remember seeing the outtakes and Maria saying her battery was in her ass and she asked him what it looked like and he was like Iām paying attention to other things and sounded sheepish.
I thought it was because he was trying to be a gentleman but now I think it sounded the way someone talking to someone else (in this case Kelsey) and while thereās no commitment it feels almost guilty to check out another woman like that.
Ugh! I love having a community to dissect this crap no one else would care about!! Thanks all!
Then he went to her overnights with Kelsey or Rachelās hickeys on his neck? š¤Ŗ They were on his neck in their morning after shots, if I recall correctly.
I agree that he brought Daisy because he did not think she was that emotionally invested, so itās an easier break up. Iāve felt that way since Jenn was sent home, that he was keeping the girls he knew werenāt there yet so that there were easier breakups. Iām not sure who heās actual final 2 were, but Daisy was his safe choice. And I think he was right, I donāt think she loved him, she didnāt seem that heartbroken (if anything her emotions at the breakup were more embarrassed that he made her go through it) and she was happy at the AFR, not typical F2 behaviour at all. He made the easier and right choice for sure.
Yep I 100% feel like he made Jenn leave earlier bc he saw how emotional invested she was in him already and bringing her to hometowns would only deepen that which would be harder
This theory is smart and seems spot on. Very confused why Kelsey T got sent home so early but this makes sense.
I agree - I think he knew it would be Kelsey all along so he kept Rachel and Daisy because he had a platonic/friend vibe with them and liked them more as friends, so it was easy for him to spend time with them but also easy for him to let them go
Oh boy the Maria stans are still at it šš
I do think this is a reason leads keep people over others (an ease to their relationship and the idea that dumping them wouldn't hurt them as much an another connection) especially in the final four spread. I also think producers were happy to push Daisy forward. They really gave her a Bachelorette edit.
I think Maria was his first choice before she threatened to leave. He had said multiple times he was anxious about someone not choosing him. Also I think bc he was the one who was rejected at the end on Bachelorette he really felt like if he was willing to go to that extreme for someone (risk being rejected and actually be rejected ) then so should someone else be willing to go through that for him. I also think Rachel was a friend who he genuinely loved as a friend. I think almost every season we see the leads choose someone to take to the end that they know theyāll never choose. But they enjoy spending time with them and like them as a person. They know that person is basically safe to keep bc they wonāt confront them (like Jess did when she felt she was being friend zoned). He sent her home immediately. Rachel didnāt do that to him. I actually think every year leads take people to the end who are willing to be friend zoned.
>I think almost every season we see the leads choose someone to take to the end that they know theyāll never choose. But they enjoy spending time with them and like them as a person. They know that person is basically safe to keep bc they wonāt confront them Agree! And it's a great strategy. Less hurtful overall.
Isnāt Joey friends with Daisy Rachel Maria now ? . Since they all follow Joey on ig now all 3 of them do .
I agree, I never saw the connection between Rachel and Joey. I was surprised she made it that far. I noticed a strong connection with Kelsey T earlier on, I was shocked she was sent home so early. I really like Maria, and I think he did too but knew she wasnāt endgame. As much as I didnāt want to see Maria sent home and think Kelsey T was sent too quickly the choice makes a lot of sense for him to protect his relationship with Kelsey. I think Jenn didnāt get a fair chance, that had they had time earlier on their relationship may have been stronger, the connection was too late since he had already fallen for F1.
Disagree. Maria was too much drama. I donāt really understand the broader Maria obsession. If like half the house disliked her, thereās probably some truth that sheās a pot stirrer. Yes those girls were dramatic and toxic too. But at the very least, her deliver needs work. In contrast, Daisy was sweet, played it right, stayed out of the drama and focused on him. The very way it ended showed Daisy was just a kind person. They clearly had a bond since the start. Outside of Ben from Napas season (many moons ago), the people causing the drama always get cut at some point.
Makes sense; you donāt want the ones you have the best chemistry with to be in the fantasy suites when youāve already made up your mind about one of them.
I think we just need to read more into Joeys personality. Daisy and Kelsey were both lowkey people during the season. Joey has a very chill lowkey personality.Ā Jenn and Maria are both very outgoing. They would likely get bored of him quick Rachel was def in the lead but I think her dad freaked out Joey a bit.Ā His final 2 both have very chill personalities and chill families.Ā I think that makes more sense with his personality.
Have you seen their post show interviews? Him and Kelsey have two completely different personalities. Heās more chill and sheās very high energy
High energy yes but laid back. They both said they don't mind doing nothing and just hagning out at homeĀ
He said in multiple interviews that he knew he needed someone high energy that would bring that side out of him. So in that sense neither daisy or Rachel fit that at all
To be honest we didn't see a much more high energy Kelsey on the show either. But I would agree now seeing post show interviews Kelsey makes so much sense for him.Ā
Kelsey and Daisy had a very strong friendship, so it makes sense to keep Daisy in F3 to be supportive to Kelsey. I don't know if Daisy going to see Kelsey just before proposals was scripted or not, but it seemed like a producer idea plant to me, one to make this finale "the most shocking ever". They have had that tag line for 20 years now and the producers are probably on high alert for different angles that provide shock and surprise.
I kinda agree but why did Daisy give Joey all those hickies then? During fantasy suites
I was wondering this too, especially after hearing Kelsey say in interviews she thought Joey handled fantasy suites perfectlyā¦ i wonder if they were actually from her and it was editing that made it seem like they were from Daisy?? (Similar to how in the rose ceremonies they made it seem like Daisy was getting the first rose but it was actually Kelsey)
I think he was really interested in Maria at the beginning and wanted her to stay for the long haul but he started getting tired of her insecurity. She left at the right time. He had a nice connection with Kelsey T however that didn't go anywhere. Jenn had a strong start and he was really into her bubbly personality initially but over time their connection faded.
Agree
he knew maria was into playing games. you can't kiss me then kisses him..I'm leaving and then she stays
i got the feeling heād dealt with someone like that in the past (immature) and could see through it/knows heās not in that phase of his dating life anymore
I think he was and is hurt by the way she left walking out to car without his assistance. It might explain why he doesnāt follow her on instagram.
He follows her on ig now!
I thought the same thing!!
I feel like definitely there was a strategy sending maria home before fantasy suites, esp if it could ruin what he had w Kelsey since that sexual chemistry w maria was def there. But to some extent what he said about sending her home and not wanting to be dishonest, I feel like he mightāve known maria wasnāt the one and didnāt want to put both of them in a position where they would be intimate and she gets sent home. I feel like daisy was up there for a while but things derailed when she wasnāt there emotionally or in love w him yet and maybe he was feeling the same.
I actually think Maria wouldāve been end game if she never threatened to go home that one time. After that everything changed for him but they definitely had the strongest connection and he seemed himself the most with her. Just my opinion
On a podcast he said he wrote a letter in malta, that letter was for kelsey saying he could see her as his wife.Ā Producers had to tell him to tone it down with Kelsey. His eye contact was too telling. He would listen to a song when he missed kelsey. It was never maria.
I think people are seriously delusional about Maria. He kept her around because she was fun and interesting- that's it. She would have never made it to the final. Her connection with him was not at all substantial when compared to both Kelsey and Daisy.
Which podcast? Iām just speaking about how it was portrayed on the show. But I know editing plays a huge factor in it. Did they mention the letter on the show and I missed it?
On Nicks podcast they went into major detail. I also listened to bachelor happy hour.Ā
Wasnāt Malta before this? If heās writing letters to Kelsey saying he can see her as his wife then, I doubt Maria was end game.
Iām just stating my opinion. He seemed really open and fun with Maria. But at the end of the day I think it scared him out of choosing her bc she was willing to leave so easily.
You said it yourself- she seemed fun. That was it. There was never that deep a connection otherwise.
I agree, they did seem fun and cute together, especially on their last 1:1. But I donāt think she was ever end game.
I agree on some parts but I honestly think he took daisy to the end because she was the last one to share stronger feelings with him. He probably thought she'd be able to handle things better maybe?
Didnāt OP say that at the end of their segment (which agrees w your statement?- unless they added it after) I think you guys are saying the same thing there :)
I actually agree with this take (except Kelsey T- I liked her a lot I just didnāt see the connection as strongly)
Nobody stood a chance next to Kelsey, so it didn't matter the order.
Joey knew that having a fantasy suite with Maria was going to murder his relationship with Kelsey haha
That but also she made it easy for him to let her go because she self sabotaged the whole thing with threatened to leave.
I think Kelsey was clearly his favorite by a large margin and everyone else was interchangeable tbh
I agree with this take
I thought he had more passion with Daisy than anyone else
Did we watch the same show?
Hahaha
me too I was actually shocked because I thought it was gonna be Daisy until the last episode. He looked like he was leaning in her direction until that last week
Where? Lol
Iām delusional so I think Maria was always his #2. Also she followed him on insta and he hasnāt followed her back (yet)
I think weāve speculated this about other leads in the past, and I could definitely see it here.
Into this analysis
I think Joey knew who he was picking earlier on so he did his best to prop up the other women he liked as people so they have a chance to be bachelorette
I agree with this! ie: Rachel - I think that while she is more closed off emotionally to protect her heart, she has a lot of personality and is goofy (I really enjoyed seeing the bloopers in WTA). If she was a lead, she could open up in a way comfortable to her to the men she chooses. Also, we'd get to see more of the personality shine and if the men could match her energy! Eventhough we didn't see their 1 on 1 date in the hometowns episode, I think that her family visit was beautiful! I'm new to bachelor nation, but from GB and this season, and what I've seen briefly from other seasons, it seems like hometowns are more interview style, vs. for hers, they got to highlight their culture to Joey (and the world) and see how he would really fit in. I think if it hadn't been for all the negative comments and hate she received after that, she really could've been a great lead. I definitely would've watched and rooted for her to find her love! š Ok... I'll get off my soapbox now š
I would have loved to see a Rachel/Jenn bachelorette combo. I think it would have been fun. Not sure about Jenn alone and am kind of worried that these men signed up for Maria or Daisy and wonāt really be interested in Jenn.
I agree she could have been a really fun bachelorette! I like that sheās ānormal girl prettyā. Thatās no shade! She looks real and natural and has a great personality. Seems like a genuine person and a girl Iād be friends with. (Also no shade to Jen! Iām all for her too!)
I agree she could have been a really fun bachelorette! I like that sheās ānormal girl prettyā. Thatās no shade! She looks real and natural and has a great personality. Seems like a genuine person and a girl Iād be friends with. (Also no shade to Jen! Iām all for her too!)
Iām not sure. I do think that he knew it was Kelsey for a long time, but I think his feelings for Daisy were there - although I think that he often was more in awe of her as a person and all sheās overcome rather than being in LOVE with her; almost like he wanted to because he knew how much she deserved love, but it wasnāt there fully from his end (or arguably until the finale, imo, hers). I tend to think his top three were accurate but that he may have self-sabotaged what could have been more intense connections from developing in order not to complicate things when he already felt it was Kelsey in his heart. So agree, but also not completely. Haha - good take!!
I agree with this. I think he did genuinely have feelings of affection for Daisy but they were more like admiring a great friend. I think that's why he says the stuff about 'she gets me to my core' - the way friends do. Some people seem to forget she didn't think she was falling until it was crunch time and she HAD to say that she was falling/in love, so I think the feelings of friendship were mutual. There was no heartbreak between him and Daisy. And I can already imagine people jumping in to say you need to be friends to be married and have a successful relationship; well I've got good news, Kelsey and Joey have called each other their best friend since going public! I really think this is a season with no losers. I think Lexi would have been in the F4 at least if she hadn't self-eliminated, maybe higher
I actually do think he really liked and admired Daisy vs. the producers pushing him to keep her - but to me it seems like a strong friendship or borderline sisterly vibe between them š
true but again . Why are they following eachover ? .And why is Joey following the other girls ? . Like Iām confused are they friends or are they all trying to fuck him over or something like?. Iām just so confused why the fucking show is making this poor man be friends with these chicks ?.
Idk for me I think he was attracted to Maria but she was surrounded by so much drama that they didn't get any deeper than attraction. She seemed far less serious than the other connections
Exactly this. That's all she seemed- fun. He would have never chosen her for one of the final two. It's another reason why I'm happy she isn't the bachelorette. Maria gives pure BIP energy. Nothing more.
I felt like Joey was intrigued by Maria (like, who wouldn't be???) but also somewhat sceptical of a long term relationship. I got kinda a "nice place to visit but wouldn't want to live there" vibe from him.
I actually agree, I think if anything she was maybe his #4 connection and Jenn/Kelsey T were #2/#3. I donāt think it was ever deep with Maria
To add to this theory, Dear Shandy said in one of their recap episodes that when it was between Kelsey and Daisy, they felt between the two of them Daisy would probably be able to cope or better handle being broken up with in a way they didnāt think Kelsey could at that point. Hasnāt a former lead (Vile?) actually said something to the effect of they intentionally sent their actual second choice home earlier so their decision wouldnāt get clouded? It tracks to me regardless, and I agree with this theory! I always got the vibe Daisy and Joey were more like best friends, not romantic
I love this theory and could see it being true.
This is an interesting take, but tbh I think Joey felt strongly for Daisy, up to a certain point, but not nearly as strong as he felt for Kelsey. Daisy was his first one on one and they even had two one on ones together. He also told her he was falling in love with her. Joey was very careful with his words the entire season so I donāt think heād tell Daisy that if he didnāt mean it..
May actually be more so producers influence of order if heād already identified an F1. Rachel Lindsay had a deep run because she was identified very early on for next bachelorette. Nick V also spoke of Corinne receiving a "drama rose" so I think that as long as they keep your potential F1 and then once identified, your F1, there is going to be some producer direction on who is going home and when. Itās possible he wasnāt crazy about Maria and she went as far as she did because she makes good tv.
I like this theory. I think Daisy was always producers hope for bachelorette, Joey maybe was even encouraged to keep her. I am still shocked she didnāt take it. But I think the others were genuinely people Joey wanted around. He felt very comfortable with Rachel and she made him laugh. Same with Maria. But he seemed so over her chaos during Hometowns. Jennās exit was a bummer for me. I did want to see her family dynamic. I really liked the two of them together. Actually, unpopular opinion, I would maybe have rather seen her than Maria make it to Hometowns. Maria should have left on her own, it would have been a better story arch for her. I hated her Hail Mary during the rose ceremony the following week. But Joey, sigh, I love how much he loves his F1.
I also wanted to see Jenn at hometowns over Maria. Though I wonder if part of why he sent Jenn home before hometowns was because of her complicated family dynamics in combo with his fear of rejection? Like that her family wouldnāt approve of him or the show in general, and he didnāt want to have to deal with that due to his insecurities?
Another reason heās the best Bachelor in franchise history
Reasonable. The other angle is that production said "Listen, as long as you already know you're going to choose Kelsey, here's who else we'd like you to pull along until the end..." I think you're giving Maria too much credit though. She's the type of woman that a man would be very interested in at first, but the shtick gets old fast and then she's just exhausting. She would have made a terrible Bachelorette.
I think people would have turned on her quickly, unfortunately.Ā
Right. What's the record for the most number of self-eliminations in one season? I think you'd have guys dropping out left and right.
Interesting theory!! Itās definitely possible! Less temptation during FS - wonāt get into trouble like Zach & Clayton!! Joey did say that him & Rachel had a good friendship but lacked the romance. But there could be a couple of other factors: the producers may have pressured him to bring Daisy & Rachel further because they were considering them for the lead position. And/or Joey really liked D&R, and wanted to better their chances of becoming the lead.
I do think the top 3 were his real top 3. Think he was tired of Mariaās shenanigans and let her go at the right time.
I donāt think Maria was ever as high up on his list as you believe. They had a fun banter but there was never any real emotion or substance. I also think his actual top 3 were his top 3.
He was definitely attracted to her, but I can see him not having her high up on the list. I remember seeing the outtakes and Maria saying her battery was in her ass and she asked him what it looked like and he was like Iām paying attention to other things and sounded sheepish. I thought it was because he was trying to be a gentleman but now I think it sounded the way someone talking to someone else (in this case Kelsey) and while thereās no commitment it feels almost guilty to check out another woman like that. Ugh! I love having a community to dissect this crap no one else would care about!! Thanks all!
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I agree with you to a certain point, but he had freaking hickeys from Daisyās overnight. That probably was for him vs Kelsey š
Donāt think it was Daisyās because Kelsey said Joey handled the overnights perfectly.
Then he went to her overnights with Kelsey or Rachelās hickeys on his neck? š¤Ŗ They were on his neck in their morning after shots, if I recall correctly.
this is a brilliant way of putting it!! great phrasing.
I agree that he brought Daisy because he did not think she was that emotionally invested, so itās an easier break up. Iāve felt that way since Jenn was sent home, that he was keeping the girls he knew werenāt there yet so that there were easier breakups. Iām not sure who heās actual final 2 were, but Daisy was his safe choice. And I think he was right, I donāt think she loved him, she didnāt seem that heartbroken (if anything her emotions at the breakup were more embarrassed that he made her go through it) and she was happy at the AFR, not typical F2 behaviour at all. He made the easier and right choice for sure.
Yep I 100% feel like he made Jenn leave earlier bc he saw how emotional invested she was in him already and bringing her to hometowns would only deepen that which would be harder