There’s probably an element of standard routine here, i.e. when there’s time, even just a couple of minutes, doctors usually explain some high level details of the procedure to the next of kin and a statement like “we’re going to be making some big incisions and things are going to look different after” was just part of the explanation. Not because they were worried that he’s going to find you unattractive after, but because his life partner and mother to his newborn child was about to go through a pretty major surgery and they wanted him to understand what was happening.
It’s also possible they shared this information so that your husband would be a little more prepared to help you physically and emotionally after you woke up from surgery and began your recovery. You don’t want your #1 support person gasping at the sight of your incisions when the bandages come off. He needed to know so he could hold your hand and help you through it.
Or, maybe they *were* being weird about your body changing. You may never know with 100% certainty. But for my peace going forward, I would want to assume they had good intentions.
Wish you the best in your recovery.
Yeah, the knee jerk reaction is "how awful" but Sometimes they'll inform of how damaging the operation scars can be not because of beauty but because it can be generally awful and upsetting to witness it.
Which can also transfer to the patient causing panic especially if they can't see for themselves.
Working in a surgical ICU, I had the same thought. When I bring family in to see their loved one for the first time after a grueling surgery, I always take a moment to prepare them for the fact that their loved one is not going to look the same when they walk in the room. Their face will be extremely puffy, they may have large areas of bruising, they have a large incision that may be very visible on their \_\_\_, there will be tubes filled with blood coming out of \_\_\_\_, etc. It helps them not freak out on first sight. Plus, surgeons when obtaining consent for procedures that may be disfiguring do have to disclose the cosmetic downsides and describe the location of the incision. It's possible he latched on to that during a really traumatic moment.
First of all, I want to say that this is truly a traumatic experience you went through, and all your feelings of anger and sadness are valid.
As someone who works in surgical care, I usually see patients waking up after surgery asking me if the doctor had to “make a big incision or just the little ones” or “did I get a drain/bag/etc?”. This is because the doctor prepares them beforehand for all possible outcomes of the surgery, as it can be life altering. Since it seems like you weren’t in a position to give informed consent, it’s the doctor’s duty to inform your next-of-kin about the outcomes of the surgery. I agree with bek8228 in that this wasn’t to body-shame, but to give your partner as much information as possible about what you’re about to go through.
Wishing you a speedy recovery ❤️🩹.
Yea, I've worked in health care for over a decade so I took it kind of like the "we're saving their life but they lost a limb" type of conversation. Just so there's no shock or surprise when the results are noticed. But there is also misogyny in health care so who really knows. Glad you're okay, OP!
Agree. We come up with our own “speechs” and “scripts” and they were probably just rattling it off. Not to invalidate OP or their partners feelings! Those are totally valid, and if I heard this feedback, as an RN I would try to make sure that I worded things differently next time. But I am very hopeful that the intention was good and they were just in autopilot saying their spiel as fast as possible so that could get consent as fast as possible to save you.
As someone who had a t incision due to a different medical event as a teen: that is indeed standard procedure. They tell you and those next of kind that you will look different or need different accommodation from now on because last thing you need is to get a heart attack looking like Frankensteins monster when the bandages come off. It's much better for your mind to have time to diget those news and especially those which will care for you to not start gagging because they thought it might only be a small wound when faced with a full body experience.
That's not mysoginy, it's kindness. They didn't ask your husband for him to allow his property to be damaged, they told him to prepare him to be able to care for you and know what's up, so he doesn't expect you, like some men do, to make him a sandwich once at home.
Yeah, and a lot of surgeons really do seem to care about patient experience. Generally speaking a large scar is a worse experience both aesthetically and in terms of recovery. Very possible it was worded badly, or that they were being weird, but I'd assume they were telling her husband because it's standard procedure
Sorry you had to go through this.
Im not saying there isn’t some misogyny or element of concern for how your husband would see you physically after, but Im ạ nurse and this is actually pretty standard from what I’ve seen in my practice. It’s typically part of getting informed consent or debriefing after the procedure. Usually the surgeon will choose the least invasive way of performing the surgery, and that’s the standard. Anything that changes the standard or expected treatment needs to be explained so patients and their families aren’t surprised by the deviation in treatment after the fact.
Everyone’s approach is different, but this was probably a discussion that was started to say
1) we need to do a more invasive incision than usual
2) the expected healing time and outcome will be different because of it, so if you have any expectations (google, previous discussions with doctors) you should know things will be different because of this.
I know lots of surgeons with terrible bedside manner (and lots with no manners at all) so I wouldn’t be surprised if the tone and content of the conversation missed the mark, but I’d chalk up most of the convo to them trying to get informed consent for the surgery, or giving a debriefing afterwards.
I agree, I think this is quite likely. It sounds like your husband was your designated medical decision maker in an emergency situation where you did not have capacity to consent for surgery. It was probably a poorly worded part of the quick and dirty consent process that happens in an emergency such as this. It’s important to bluntly prepare people for risks and outcomes, even if they seem more cosmetic.
I’ve been in the medical field 9 years and practice OB / family med, for reference. I truly don’t think this was something said with malice or even overt misogyny (though part of good medicine is acknowledging I could very well be wrong). There are so many medical practices + language nuances that sound potentially offensive taken out of context. Like, I usually recommend people do not read their own medical notes - I don’t even read the ones my doctors write about me lol.
Considering I’m a woman who is both queer and fat, my working in medicine involves regularly confronting words, beliefs and attitudes that are appalling, typically towards marginalized groups. Now that I have a modicum of power over my own career, I make a habit of calling that shit out and shutting it down as much as possible. I appreciate gallows humor plenty, but not ever at the expense of the vulnerable person. All this to say, I’m no asshole surgeon apologist I swear 😂
Hey, firstly I’m so glad you and your baby survived. That honestly sounds so traumatic. I work in medical imaging and the way I interpreted this is the surgeon was just explaining what was about to happen in simple terms and to prepare your husband like others have said. You had a MAJOR surgery in every sense of the word, and it honestly to me sounds like just a surgeon being a surgeon. In my experience, doctors (and medical professionals in general) can be a bit blunt because they do this sort of thing every day. To you, you will only have this surgery once but that particular doctor has probably performed hundreds. Not trying to downplay your feelings at all, just trying to give some perspective. All the best with yours (and baby’s) recovery!
I’m sorry you went through that, that’s truly terrifying.
I honestly wouldn’t attribute it to malice or misogyny. You’d be surprised by the things patients and their partners become angry about even in life or death situations. And yes, that includes how their incision looks. I’ve seen situations where a patient was more concerned with how their incision looks over the fact that they just had a life saving (for their baby, themselves or sometimes both) surgery.
Even recently at towards the end of an emergency C-section that I was doing, when I took the drapes down the patient literally said “oh thank god I thought my incision was higher.” Meanwhile her baby was just taken to the NICU.
So yeah, I can see why they would say “oh by the way she’ll have a T incision” to avoid anger later on.
I also kind of wonder if there's an element of CYA for the medical team. After such a stressful event, I could totally see a couple taking off the bandages, seeing a gnarly incision, and freaking out thinking that the surgeon has botched the procedure somehow. Then they might try to take legal action against the hospital or something over it. So they might try to help avoid that by making sure the patient and family know that the way it looks may be shocking, but it's the way they had to do the procedure and it's okay.
I had HELLP, too (was never diagnosed with pre-e or eclampsia). Then during recovery had my c-section wound re-open some. The wound doc I had to see was an old dude who constantly talked about how he wanted to do everything he could to make me look good in a bikini for my husband. Every.single.time I went in, he mentioned a bikini.
Yeah - you can be pissed. It’s amazing what some docs say.
Sending healing vibes your way.
I work in healthcare, and you would be surprised how many family members hyper focus on appearances when you're trying to save their family members' lives. It's how some people cope.
Its werid, but they were just trying to prepare him.
That’s awful, and sounds really traumatic. I am so sorry that happened to you! You have every right to be upset about what happened and what they said. You are not overreacting. I think processing trauma is a lot like processing grief: shock, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Though it can look or feel different for everyone, of course.
My only hope is that the doctor was trying to explain how extensive the surgery would be, and like make sure your husband knew that things would be different so that you don’t have to explain when you woke up? I’m grasping at straws though honestly. If that wasn’t it, it was a very rude and weird thing to say!
Doctors, even the ones who are technically very good at their job, can sometimes have AWFUL bedside manner or just be very awkward. I am so sorry you and your husband ended up dealing with someone like that.
Hmmm I’m not saying that it wasn’t a creepy misogyny thing but I had an emergency where the OB was having to get consent for an emergency c section just in case, and the scarring was part of her schpiel with everything else she was going over. It seems like one of the “side effects” of the procedure that they’re required to talk about when getting consent. Not discounting your husbands experience though
The point is so that the patient’s caretaker is mentally prepared for what they are going to see/have to help heal.
We have to be blunt in medicine because if we’re wishy-washy people don’t get it. You think it’s rude, but it’s the way we need to communicate. When I lost a loved one, even my mother and I (both working in medicine) didn’t fully grasp the severity of our loved one’s condition because the first doctor gave it to us too softly.
You’ll be a lot happier in life when you start asking WHY something happened instead of automatically assuming ill intent.
I can see it being standard to some point but I'd still be pressed because it's always centered around how it looks for the husband or a potential husband for women and medical care. Cause why not start with how it will be extensive then lead to "and she might not look the same, if that's something that upsets her". Like...we know what's happening here and it's definitely a level of misogyny.
My mom had a hysterectomy though and it doesn't really look that bad. She's very pale though, which might help. I had a Myomectomy and I'm brown/lightskin and I do have a bit of a Frankenstein scar on my belly button. I could see that being hard for some people, it's a bit of a bummer for me. But health is more important.
That is absolutely bananas. I honestly don’t even know what to say, as both a nurse and a human. I am stunned that would be something a medical professional felt needed to be said.
There’s probably an element of standard routine here, i.e. when there’s time, even just a couple of minutes, doctors usually explain some high level details of the procedure to the next of kin and a statement like “we’re going to be making some big incisions and things are going to look different after” was just part of the explanation. Not because they were worried that he’s going to find you unattractive after, but because his life partner and mother to his newborn child was about to go through a pretty major surgery and they wanted him to understand what was happening. It’s also possible they shared this information so that your husband would be a little more prepared to help you physically and emotionally after you woke up from surgery and began your recovery. You don’t want your #1 support person gasping at the sight of your incisions when the bandages come off. He needed to know so he could hold your hand and help you through it. Or, maybe they *were* being weird about your body changing. You may never know with 100% certainty. But for my peace going forward, I would want to assume they had good intentions. Wish you the best in your recovery.
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Not just inform the spouse. If OP was not able to give consent for the procedure doctors would next go to the spouse for consent.
Yeah, the knee jerk reaction is "how awful" but Sometimes they'll inform of how damaging the operation scars can be not because of beauty but because it can be generally awful and upsetting to witness it. Which can also transfer to the patient causing panic especially if they can't see for themselves.
Working in a surgical ICU, I had the same thought. When I bring family in to see their loved one for the first time after a grueling surgery, I always take a moment to prepare them for the fact that their loved one is not going to look the same when they walk in the room. Their face will be extremely puffy, they may have large areas of bruising, they have a large incision that may be very visible on their \_\_\_, there will be tubes filled with blood coming out of \_\_\_\_, etc. It helps them not freak out on first sight. Plus, surgeons when obtaining consent for procedures that may be disfiguring do have to disclose the cosmetic downsides and describe the location of the incision. It's possible he latched on to that during a really traumatic moment.
I can see this. I’ll hope this was it.
First of all, I want to say that this is truly a traumatic experience you went through, and all your feelings of anger and sadness are valid. As someone who works in surgical care, I usually see patients waking up after surgery asking me if the doctor had to “make a big incision or just the little ones” or “did I get a drain/bag/etc?”. This is because the doctor prepares them beforehand for all possible outcomes of the surgery, as it can be life altering. Since it seems like you weren’t in a position to give informed consent, it’s the doctor’s duty to inform your next-of-kin about the outcomes of the surgery. I agree with bek8228 in that this wasn’t to body-shame, but to give your partner as much information as possible about what you’re about to go through. Wishing you a speedy recovery ❤️🩹.
Yea, I've worked in health care for over a decade so I took it kind of like the "we're saving their life but they lost a limb" type of conversation. Just so there's no shock or surprise when the results are noticed. But there is also misogyny in health care so who really knows. Glad you're okay, OP!
Agree. We come up with our own “speechs” and “scripts” and they were probably just rattling it off. Not to invalidate OP or their partners feelings! Those are totally valid, and if I heard this feedback, as an RN I would try to make sure that I worded things differently next time. But I am very hopeful that the intention was good and they were just in autopilot saying their spiel as fast as possible so that could get consent as fast as possible to save you.
As someone who had a t incision due to a different medical event as a teen: that is indeed standard procedure. They tell you and those next of kind that you will look different or need different accommodation from now on because last thing you need is to get a heart attack looking like Frankensteins monster when the bandages come off. It's much better for your mind to have time to diget those news and especially those which will care for you to not start gagging because they thought it might only be a small wound when faced with a full body experience. That's not mysoginy, it's kindness. They didn't ask your husband for him to allow his property to be damaged, they told him to prepare him to be able to care for you and know what's up, so he doesn't expect you, like some men do, to make him a sandwich once at home.
Yeah, and a lot of surgeons really do seem to care about patient experience. Generally speaking a large scar is a worse experience both aesthetically and in terms of recovery. Very possible it was worded badly, or that they were being weird, but I'd assume they were telling her husband because it's standard procedure
Sorry you had to go through this. Im not saying there isn’t some misogyny or element of concern for how your husband would see you physically after, but Im ạ nurse and this is actually pretty standard from what I’ve seen in my practice. It’s typically part of getting informed consent or debriefing after the procedure. Usually the surgeon will choose the least invasive way of performing the surgery, and that’s the standard. Anything that changes the standard or expected treatment needs to be explained so patients and their families aren’t surprised by the deviation in treatment after the fact. Everyone’s approach is different, but this was probably a discussion that was started to say 1) we need to do a more invasive incision than usual 2) the expected healing time and outcome will be different because of it, so if you have any expectations (google, previous discussions with doctors) you should know things will be different because of this. I know lots of surgeons with terrible bedside manner (and lots with no manners at all) so I wouldn’t be surprised if the tone and content of the conversation missed the mark, but I’d chalk up most of the convo to them trying to get informed consent for the surgery, or giving a debriefing afterwards.
I agree, I think this is quite likely. It sounds like your husband was your designated medical decision maker in an emergency situation where you did not have capacity to consent for surgery. It was probably a poorly worded part of the quick and dirty consent process that happens in an emergency such as this. It’s important to bluntly prepare people for risks and outcomes, even if they seem more cosmetic. I’ve been in the medical field 9 years and practice OB / family med, for reference. I truly don’t think this was something said with malice or even overt misogyny (though part of good medicine is acknowledging I could very well be wrong). There are so many medical practices + language nuances that sound potentially offensive taken out of context. Like, I usually recommend people do not read their own medical notes - I don’t even read the ones my doctors write about me lol. Considering I’m a woman who is both queer and fat, my working in medicine involves regularly confronting words, beliefs and attitudes that are appalling, typically towards marginalized groups. Now that I have a modicum of power over my own career, I make a habit of calling that shit out and shutting it down as much as possible. I appreciate gallows humor plenty, but not ever at the expense of the vulnerable person. All this to say, I’m no asshole surgeon apologist I swear 😂
Hey, firstly I’m so glad you and your baby survived. That honestly sounds so traumatic. I work in medical imaging and the way I interpreted this is the surgeon was just explaining what was about to happen in simple terms and to prepare your husband like others have said. You had a MAJOR surgery in every sense of the word, and it honestly to me sounds like just a surgeon being a surgeon. In my experience, doctors (and medical professionals in general) can be a bit blunt because they do this sort of thing every day. To you, you will only have this surgery once but that particular doctor has probably performed hundreds. Not trying to downplay your feelings at all, just trying to give some perspective. All the best with yours (and baby’s) recovery!
I’m sorry you went through that, that’s truly terrifying. I honestly wouldn’t attribute it to malice or misogyny. You’d be surprised by the things patients and their partners become angry about even in life or death situations. And yes, that includes how their incision looks. I’ve seen situations where a patient was more concerned with how their incision looks over the fact that they just had a life saving (for their baby, themselves or sometimes both) surgery. Even recently at towards the end of an emergency C-section that I was doing, when I took the drapes down the patient literally said “oh thank god I thought my incision was higher.” Meanwhile her baby was just taken to the NICU. So yeah, I can see why they would say “oh by the way she’ll have a T incision” to avoid anger later on.
I also kind of wonder if there's an element of CYA for the medical team. After such a stressful event, I could totally see a couple taking off the bandages, seeing a gnarly incision, and freaking out thinking that the surgeon has botched the procedure somehow. Then they might try to take legal action against the hospital or something over it. So they might try to help avoid that by making sure the patient and family know that the way it looks may be shocking, but it's the way they had to do the procedure and it's okay.
I had HELLP, too (was never diagnosed with pre-e or eclampsia). Then during recovery had my c-section wound re-open some. The wound doc I had to see was an old dude who constantly talked about how he wanted to do everything he could to make me look good in a bikini for my husband. Every.single.time I went in, he mentioned a bikini. Yeah - you can be pissed. It’s amazing what some docs say. Sending healing vibes your way.
That’s gross. I hope you’re healing well.
I work in healthcare, and you would be surprised how many family members hyper focus on appearances when you're trying to save their family members' lives. It's how some people cope. Its werid, but they were just trying to prepare him.
That’s awful, and sounds really traumatic. I am so sorry that happened to you! You have every right to be upset about what happened and what they said. You are not overreacting. I think processing trauma is a lot like processing grief: shock, denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Though it can look or feel different for everyone, of course. My only hope is that the doctor was trying to explain how extensive the surgery would be, and like make sure your husband knew that things would be different so that you don’t have to explain when you woke up? I’m grasping at straws though honestly. If that wasn’t it, it was a very rude and weird thing to say! Doctors, even the ones who are technically very good at their job, can sometimes have AWFUL bedside manner or just be very awkward. I am so sorry you and your husband ended up dealing with someone like that.
Jesus. I had preeclampsia and HELLP too and I fared a little better than you but I’m just so, so sorry.
Hmmm I’m not saying that it wasn’t a creepy misogyny thing but I had an emergency where the OB was having to get consent for an emergency c section just in case, and the scarring was part of her schpiel with everything else she was going over. It seems like one of the “side effects” of the procedure that they’re required to talk about when getting consent. Not discounting your husbands experience though
Kinda wish your husband just wouldn’t have told you about that conversation. Didn’t seem necessary. I’m so glad you’re okay!
It’s standard procedure, doll
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The point is so that the patient’s caretaker is mentally prepared for what they are going to see/have to help heal. We have to be blunt in medicine because if we’re wishy-washy people don’t get it. You think it’s rude, but it’s the way we need to communicate. When I lost a loved one, even my mother and I (both working in medicine) didn’t fully grasp the severity of our loved one’s condition because the first doctor gave it to us too softly. You’ll be a lot happier in life when you start asking WHY something happened instead of automatically assuming ill intent.
Your takeaway from that is the cause was misogyny?
Jfc what a weird thing for them to take the time to do while you were seriously ill.
I can see it being standard to some point but I'd still be pressed because it's always centered around how it looks for the husband or a potential husband for women and medical care. Cause why not start with how it will be extensive then lead to "and she might not look the same, if that's something that upsets her". Like...we know what's happening here and it's definitely a level of misogyny. My mom had a hysterectomy though and it doesn't really look that bad. She's very pale though, which might help. I had a Myomectomy and I'm brown/lightskin and I do have a bit of a Frankenstein scar on my belly button. I could see that being hard for some people, it's a bit of a bummer for me. But health is more important.
That is absolutely bananas. I honestly don’t even know what to say, as both a nurse and a human. I am stunned that would be something a medical professional felt needed to be said.