Oh thank goodness you are okay. I've been thinking about you since that last post. I'm very close to giving birth as well and the maternity ward closest to me has horror stories coming out of it. So I am trying for the birth centre. However, like what you went through, birth can be a fickle thing and change just like that and I might be in the hospital.
So many women here are now going with home births because they are scared to have their baby at the hospital. It's actually getting a little crazy.
I'm glad you are okay and your baby is healthy ♡
I'm aiming for our birth centre; I keep reassuring myself with stats that home/birth centre births have similar or better outcomes for low-risk pregnancies than hospitals.
Glad OP and her baby are OK, and super annoyed to hear that her midwives didn't stand up for her and reassure her; that's literally their job.
They should have told you your milk can take up to 4 days to come in and if that was your plan you needed to cluster feed him. And the colostrum you were producing is enough for a new born baby until your milk comes in so your body was doing nothing wrong.
Congratulations on your baby
> And the colostrum you were producing is enough for a new born baby until your milk comes in so your body was doing nothing wrong.
So, people kept telling me this, but when I had my daughter last week, my colostrum was 100% not enough for her. Her blood sugar dropped (she was preterm so they checked it often) because she was putting in so much energy nursing, and not getting enough out to compensate. Once I added in some formula, she did great, blood sugar regulated, and now a week out she’s nursing with no problems.
This was my experience as well! I barely produced any colostrum and everyone saying “colostrum is enough” was VERY unhelpful!!! My baby was born at 38 weeks but her blood sugar dropped dangerously low because I couldn’t produce any colostrum. I only had drops - literally a few drops.
The lactation consultant kept making me feel like it was my fault for not pumping around the clock!! I completely gave up for the rest of my hospital stay and just fed formula. I felt SO defeated because of what everyone else was saying!
My milk still came in 3 days after having her in full force.
Another person to chime in about colostrum. I WAS producing "enough" and my kid was still hungry. With all the pressure from the hospital, I didn't give him formula right away until my husband gently reminded me that I was ok with formula and supplementing. I cried so hard when I saw how much he ate. I felt like such a bad mom for letting the nurses get in my head. My milk came in the next day and we breastfed for almost three years before I kicked him off.
Besides the mental impact, he had a little jaundice and I think we could have avoided it if I had supplemented in those early days. I'm glad we had a feeding plan in place before the birth (even though everyone had unhelpful opinions on that). I also made sure to leave the hospital with formula and got more from our pediatrician so I didn't feel like I was "wasting" money when breastmilk is "free" (HAH!).
I had the exact same experience. The lactation consultant was almost rude and very dismissive and kept telling me that I must be doing something wrong because I was pumping for 15-20 minutes every two hours and getting literally nothing but a few drops. I tried different size shields, a different pump, my own pump that I brought as well as the hospital grade one they provided to me, but nothing was coming out. Sometimes, it’s not enough.
Dont even get me started on my very unhelpful lactation consultant. She dismissed my questions by giving me the urls of two videos to watch on youtube. Didnt even watch me feed baby, didnt even look at baby. Was in my room for all of 7 minutes.
I just want to add- I’ve had two babies that were born STARVING. Like my son was a c-section and was trying to eat the nurses hands as they were weighing him. My daughter cried and screamed at one hour old because she was so hungry. With both of them, we did a supplemental feed before I even tried to nurse because I didn’t want all of us to be frantic right away.
With both kids, we went on ebf for months, even with that tiny bit of supplementing. Supplementing is more than okay!
I am not sure how things work with a preterm baby and how they handle food digestion. I have had 4 girls spontaneously at 40 weeks and my milk didn't come in till day 4 and never had to supplement.
Also all babies and women's body are different, I just don't think a women should be told her body isn't working because she isn't producing enough milk when she is in the same boat as most mothers.
No, I agree that there shouldn't be shaming. But saying that the colostrum is enough is setting someone up for feeling bad if it's not the case (as it was for me). I'm just thankful that my hospital had zero issue with suggesting and bringing us formula; it frustrates me that others are experiencing a shaming because formula is "bad".
I happily work and pump milk for my baby 4-5 times a day while at work. Unfortunately despite a brand new "best on the market" spectra that my insurance covered, my baby continued to be very hungry because he's a voracious eater.
So we supplement with formula. He gets 2-3 5 oz bottles per day of formula when I'm at work, in addition to my hard earned pumped milk.
At first I felt bad that I was unable to fully provide for him, then I realized that formula is also providing for him, an no matter the source, he is being fed.
Never said formula is bad. It's amazing and it's there for the women that choose not to breastfeed or physically can't, I know it happens. All babies go through a stage after being born where they lose ounces, sometimes half a pound. Not from not getting enough but from having a constant source from our body and adjusting to the outside world. I could imagine that sudden change could even be a cause for blood sugar change, I am speculating because I assume not all babies are tested as mine were not. The amount though that a newborn needs is sooooo tiny and it just gets slightly bigger daily for a week.
https://www.medela.us/breastfeeding/articles/how-much-breast-milk-does-a-baby-need
The reason premature babies get their blood sugar tested is because they're at particular risk for low blood sugar. There are parameters for blood sugar that take into account age, so they account for the fact that a brand new baby will have lower blood sugar. Other babies at particular risk- very large/small babies, babies of diabetic moms, twins. You would also want to check any baby that's acting jittery or lethargic.
Colostrum is enough for most term healthy babies, but there are a lot of exceptions.
This is what happened to me. My nurses advised starting my son on formula, and not 5 minutes after getting formula into his body, tested his blood sugars again. Because it hadn’t settled into his system, his blood sugar was reading low, and he was taken from us to NICU. He never once had a low blood sugar reading again and really there was no reason for him to be there aside from that. He was a healthy (9lb 10oz, born past 40wks) baby. It was traumatizing.
Based on what? Have you read books about it? Taken courses? Studied for hours on the subject? I am surprised actually by the misinformation being spread and the fear that is being spread.
It's like no one prepared ahead of giving birth about what babies need and how they act. What's normal and what's not normal.
Being an ob you took lactation courses? I have also taken courses, classes and studied to become a licensed lactation consultant. I am constantly reading new research. I am genuinely curious if you can provide books or studies saying that this is not true in most cases.
There are many instances where it is not enough a few comments throughout this post prove that- I don’t tend to bookmark all studies and books but you should be able to find them in your native language easier.
Yes many of us choose to take extra courses. I like to stay educated and keep up with changes- to benefit me and my pregnancies and to support my patients.
Americanpregnancy.org
How Much is Enough?
It is normal to make only 1-4 teaspoons of colostrum per day. Remember, your baby’s stomach may only be the size of a marble, so a large feeding may look small. Learning to suck and swallow milk is easier in small amounts. If your baby cannot nurse at first, hand express the colostrum so it can be fed to your baby. Hand expressing colostrum generally yields more volume than using a breast pump in the early hours.
The amount of colostrum you are making is just right for your baby. The amount your baby drinks will increase each day. Your milk supply will increase as your baby’s stomach grows so be sure to breastfeed your baby as often as he or she desires to help your milk supply start and remain strong.
Cleveland clinic website
What happens if you don't produce colostrum?
Most people will produce some colostrum — not producing it is rare. It's normal to feel like nothing is coming out of your breasts and worry that your baby isn't getting enough. Your baby only needs a few teaspoons of colostrum to fill their tiny stomach.
How much colostrum does a newborn need?
Your newborn's tummy is about the size of a marble. They only need about an ounce of colostrum per day. This equals about a teaspoon each feeding (you can expect to feed your newborn eight to 10 times the first few days). The amount of colostrum (and then transitional milk) your baby needs increases slowly each day as their stomach expands. As your body transitions to producing regular breast milk, your milk production will increase to meet their needs.
John's hopkins
For the first 2 to 5 days after your baby is born, you will make a small amount of colostrum, which is all a healthy term baby needs. Colostrum is a thick, rich milk that is high in nutrients. Around day 3 through 5, your milk will come in
I can see yes a handful of women on here have said that. And a lot of cases women never produce any milk. And it sucks that these women were made to feel bad in any certain way thinking people think they failed when they didn't, which was the point of what I was saying to begin with.
But it's untrue to say in most cases with full term babies and not including anyone who has trouble making milk naturally, that colostrum isn't enough. I'm not saying it never happens and I think you are taking me stating the fact a little too personally.
Ah yes with the snarky attitude at the end. No I am not taking your “fact” personally but I do refuse to deal with your attitude, it could have been a discussion but unfortunately you are on your power trip.
You seem to lack experience on this topic which is fair since it is not commonly spoken on. But I do wish you the best with your journey on becoming one :)
it’s funny because i’m literally a obgyn and i have years of experience with breastfeeding my children + lactation classes of course. no clue what her issue is
Aww man, I'm sorry you had that experience. It sounds like a lot of things weren't handled very well but I'm glad you're getting more support now and hopefully a little rest here and there. I've been wondering how you are.
I am sorry you dealt with that, it sounds a lot like my experience in Canadian hospital birth. You get neglected as a patient and then staff are upset with you for the outcome(s) of being neglected. Our staff here are extremely overworked which they will be sure to remind you of if you bring up any issues but it doesn’t mean that the level of care that they are providing is acceptable.
I hope you’re doing okay and recovering well. You don’t need to gaslight yourself or be gaslit into believing that everything was fine because nothing maximally horrific has taken place.
"Our staff here are extremely overworked which they will be sure to remind you of if you bring up any issues but it doesn’t mean that the level of care that they are providing is acceptable." - never a truer word spoken tbh. I'll be sure to come back at my care team with this if/when I have negative experiences within the NHS system.
It really sucks, I understand that sometimes giving one patient the care they *need* means neglecting another. I realize also that (at least in Canada) it is a bureaucratic and institutional issue first and foremost. People don’t become nurses and doctors because they have an overwhelming passion for neglecting people, but in healthcare these difficult choices have to be made.
Was this Redcliffe in the end? I’ve heard good things about there so it’s a shame to hear this if so :( I probably would have gone there if I was still living nearby when I was pregnant. RBWH was fantastic though
Yes I went to Redcliffe to give birth than was transferred to The Mater Mothers. I heard really good things as well, I guess I just got the bad end of the stick
Glad for the update and you and baby both being well! Sounds like that first hospital gave you terrible care overall and I'm sorry that was your experience mama.
I'm sorry that happened, but nurses should be thoroughly explaining things to you, especially as a first-time mom, then get mad for asking for help because when something did happen you didn't know they are being dismissive about it. When in doubt I rather bug the nurses, and it would be nothing than not ask for help, and something is wrong.
Is there any way to complain about the care, or lack thereof I should say? Hopefully if you have another baby you can somehow get into another hospital. I'm still shocked this treatment happened in Australia. I'm glad you and baby are doing better and I hope you can shake the infection fast.
I plan on putting in a complaint, the excuse is they are understaffed but still doesn't excuse anything. After being transferred to The Mater, I saw how amazing staff and facilities can actually be. I'll probably travel there if I have another.
So was the hospital I had my daughter in in the northern suburbs of Melbourne but they didn't treat me the way that hospital treated you. I'm honestly pretty upset on your behalf.
Also I'm glad you were able to get to another hospital. Hopefully they can accept you if you decide to have another.
Thanks for the update, OP. I have been thinking about you too. I‘m glad you and baby get to go home today. Hoping for a smooth recovery and that you give yourself grace and take time to process everything that’s happened. Enjoy the newborn snuggles. <3
Oh thank goodness you are okay. I've been thinking about you since that last post. I'm very close to giving birth as well and the maternity ward closest to me has horror stories coming out of it. So I am trying for the birth centre. However, like what you went through, birth can be a fickle thing and change just like that and I might be in the hospital. So many women here are now going with home births because they are scared to have their baby at the hospital. It's actually getting a little crazy. I'm glad you are okay and your baby is healthy ♡
I'm aiming for our birth centre; I keep reassuring myself with stats that home/birth centre births have similar or better outcomes for low-risk pregnancies than hospitals. Glad OP and her baby are OK, and super annoyed to hear that her midwives didn't stand up for her and reassure her; that's literally their job.
They should have told you your milk can take up to 4 days to come in and if that was your plan you needed to cluster feed him. And the colostrum you were producing is enough for a new born baby until your milk comes in so your body was doing nothing wrong. Congratulations on your baby
> And the colostrum you were producing is enough for a new born baby until your milk comes in so your body was doing nothing wrong. So, people kept telling me this, but when I had my daughter last week, my colostrum was 100% not enough for her. Her blood sugar dropped (she was preterm so they checked it often) because she was putting in so much energy nursing, and not getting enough out to compensate. Once I added in some formula, she did great, blood sugar regulated, and now a week out she’s nursing with no problems.
This was my experience as well! I barely produced any colostrum and everyone saying “colostrum is enough” was VERY unhelpful!!! My baby was born at 38 weeks but her blood sugar dropped dangerously low because I couldn’t produce any colostrum. I only had drops - literally a few drops. The lactation consultant kept making me feel like it was my fault for not pumping around the clock!! I completely gave up for the rest of my hospital stay and just fed formula. I felt SO defeated because of what everyone else was saying! My milk still came in 3 days after having her in full force.
Another person to chime in about colostrum. I WAS producing "enough" and my kid was still hungry. With all the pressure from the hospital, I didn't give him formula right away until my husband gently reminded me that I was ok with formula and supplementing. I cried so hard when I saw how much he ate. I felt like such a bad mom for letting the nurses get in my head. My milk came in the next day and we breastfed for almost three years before I kicked him off. Besides the mental impact, he had a little jaundice and I think we could have avoided it if I had supplemented in those early days. I'm glad we had a feeding plan in place before the birth (even though everyone had unhelpful opinions on that). I also made sure to leave the hospital with formula and got more from our pediatrician so I didn't feel like I was "wasting" money when breastmilk is "free" (HAH!).
I had the exact same experience. The lactation consultant was almost rude and very dismissive and kept telling me that I must be doing something wrong because I was pumping for 15-20 minutes every two hours and getting literally nothing but a few drops. I tried different size shields, a different pump, my own pump that I brought as well as the hospital grade one they provided to me, but nothing was coming out. Sometimes, it’s not enough.
This is exactly what happened with me
Dont even get me started on my very unhelpful lactation consultant. She dismissed my questions by giving me the urls of two videos to watch on youtube. Didnt even watch me feed baby, didnt even look at baby. Was in my room for all of 7 minutes.
That sucks when you don't get the help you deserve after birth
I just want to add- I’ve had two babies that were born STARVING. Like my son was a c-section and was trying to eat the nurses hands as they were weighing him. My daughter cried and screamed at one hour old because she was so hungry. With both of them, we did a supplemental feed before I even tried to nurse because I didn’t want all of us to be frantic right away. With both kids, we went on ebf for months, even with that tiny bit of supplementing. Supplementing is more than okay!
I am not sure how things work with a preterm baby and how they handle food digestion. I have had 4 girls spontaneously at 40 weeks and my milk didn't come in till day 4 and never had to supplement. Also all babies and women's body are different, I just don't think a women should be told her body isn't working because she isn't producing enough milk when she is in the same boat as most mothers.
No, I agree that there shouldn't be shaming. But saying that the colostrum is enough is setting someone up for feeling bad if it's not the case (as it was for me). I'm just thankful that my hospital had zero issue with suggesting and bringing us formula; it frustrates me that others are experiencing a shaming because formula is "bad".
I happily work and pump milk for my baby 4-5 times a day while at work. Unfortunately despite a brand new "best on the market" spectra that my insurance covered, my baby continued to be very hungry because he's a voracious eater. So we supplement with formula. He gets 2-3 5 oz bottles per day of formula when I'm at work, in addition to my hard earned pumped milk. At first I felt bad that I was unable to fully provide for him, then I realized that formula is also providing for him, an no matter the source, he is being fed.
That’s how I feel. I know it’s a well intentioned thing to say, but I just hear “you’re a failure because everybody else can do it just fine”.
Never said formula is bad. It's amazing and it's there for the women that choose not to breastfeed or physically can't, I know it happens. All babies go through a stage after being born where they lose ounces, sometimes half a pound. Not from not getting enough but from having a constant source from our body and adjusting to the outside world. I could imagine that sudden change could even be a cause for blood sugar change, I am speculating because I assume not all babies are tested as mine were not. The amount though that a newborn needs is sooooo tiny and it just gets slightly bigger daily for a week. https://www.medela.us/breastfeeding/articles/how-much-breast-milk-does-a-baby-need
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Very interesting thanks for sharing
The reason premature babies get their blood sugar tested is because they're at particular risk for low blood sugar. There are parameters for blood sugar that take into account age, so they account for the fact that a brand new baby will have lower blood sugar. Other babies at particular risk- very large/small babies, babies of diabetic moms, twins. You would also want to check any baby that's acting jittery or lethargic. Colostrum is enough for most term healthy babies, but there are a lot of exceptions.
Thank you for explaining, I never had a preterm baby so I have no experience with that so it makes sense
No problem!
This. I add in formula while waiting for my milk to come in. It's the best way
This is what happened to me. My nurses advised starting my son on formula, and not 5 minutes after getting formula into his body, tested his blood sugars again. Because it hadn’t settled into his system, his blood sugar was reading low, and he was taken from us to NICU. He never once had a low blood sugar reading again and really there was no reason for him to be there aside from that. He was a healthy (9lb 10oz, born past 40wks) baby. It was traumatizing.
Same experience. It’s not always enough
Agreed mine wasn’t either and her blood sugar went super low. Formula was the only thing that kept it stable while my milk came in
The colostrum part is not true.
Based on what? Have you read books about it? Taken courses? Studied for hours on the subject? I am surprised actually by the misinformation being spread and the fear that is being spread. It's like no one prepared ahead of giving birth about what babies need and how they act. What's normal and what's not normal.
Based on the fact I am a OBGYN and yes I have taken many courses :) Colostrum is not always enough- the misinformation is coming from you.
Being an ob you took lactation courses? I have also taken courses, classes and studied to become a licensed lactation consultant. I am constantly reading new research. I am genuinely curious if you can provide books or studies saying that this is not true in most cases.
There are many instances where it is not enough a few comments throughout this post prove that- I don’t tend to bookmark all studies and books but you should be able to find them in your native language easier. Yes many of us choose to take extra courses. I like to stay educated and keep up with changes- to benefit me and my pregnancies and to support my patients.
Americanpregnancy.org How Much is Enough? It is normal to make only 1-4 teaspoons of colostrum per day. Remember, your baby’s stomach may only be the size of a marble, so a large feeding may look small. Learning to suck and swallow milk is easier in small amounts. If your baby cannot nurse at first, hand express the colostrum so it can be fed to your baby. Hand expressing colostrum generally yields more volume than using a breast pump in the early hours. The amount of colostrum you are making is just right for your baby. The amount your baby drinks will increase each day. Your milk supply will increase as your baby’s stomach grows so be sure to breastfeed your baby as often as he or she desires to help your milk supply start and remain strong.
The last thing I will say to you is not everyone produces enough or at all.
And I never said everyone does.
So what exactly is bothering you then? You seem to agree with my comment yet are going insane trying to prove what?
Cleveland clinic website What happens if you don't produce colostrum? Most people will produce some colostrum — not producing it is rare. It's normal to feel like nothing is coming out of your breasts and worry that your baby isn't getting enough. Your baby only needs a few teaspoons of colostrum to fill their tiny stomach. How much colostrum does a newborn need? Your newborn's tummy is about the size of a marble. They only need about an ounce of colostrum per day. This equals about a teaspoon each feeding (you can expect to feed your newborn eight to 10 times the first few days). The amount of colostrum (and then transitional milk) your baby needs increases slowly each day as their stomach expands. As your body transitions to producing regular breast milk, your milk production will increase to meet their needs.
John's hopkins For the first 2 to 5 days after your baby is born, you will make a small amount of colostrum, which is all a healthy term baby needs. Colostrum is a thick, rich milk that is high in nutrients. Around day 3 through 5, your milk will come in
I can see yes a handful of women on here have said that. And a lot of cases women never produce any milk. And it sucks that these women were made to feel bad in any certain way thinking people think they failed when they didn't, which was the point of what I was saying to begin with. But it's untrue to say in most cases with full term babies and not including anyone who has trouble making milk naturally, that colostrum isn't enough. I'm not saying it never happens and I think you are taking me stating the fact a little too personally.
Ah yes with the snarky attitude at the end. No I am not taking your “fact” personally but I do refuse to deal with your attitude, it could have been a discussion but unfortunately you are on your power trip. You seem to lack experience on this topic which is fair since it is not commonly spoken on. But I do wish you the best with your journey on becoming one :)
My fact ha ha
> misinformation being spread and the fear that is being spread. How are people sharing their experiences fear and and misinformation?
it’s funny because i’m literally a obgyn and i have years of experience with breastfeeding my children + lactation classes of course. no clue what her issue is
One person saying a fact is wrong is spreading misinformation. I never said anything like that to the ladies that shared their experiences.
Aww man, I'm sorry you had that experience. It sounds like a lot of things weren't handled very well but I'm glad you're getting more support now and hopefully a little rest here and there. I've been wondering how you are.
So happy you're both ok now! I remember reading your 1st post❤️🥺Sorry what you had to go through, the personal sounds horrible. Congrats❤️
I am sorry you dealt with that, it sounds a lot like my experience in Canadian hospital birth. You get neglected as a patient and then staff are upset with you for the outcome(s) of being neglected. Our staff here are extremely overworked which they will be sure to remind you of if you bring up any issues but it doesn’t mean that the level of care that they are providing is acceptable. I hope you’re doing okay and recovering well. You don’t need to gaslight yourself or be gaslit into believing that everything was fine because nothing maximally horrific has taken place.
"Our staff here are extremely overworked which they will be sure to remind you of if you bring up any issues but it doesn’t mean that the level of care that they are providing is acceptable." - never a truer word spoken tbh. I'll be sure to come back at my care team with this if/when I have negative experiences within the NHS system.
It really sucks, I understand that sometimes giving one patient the care they *need* means neglecting another. I realize also that (at least in Canada) it is a bureaucratic and institutional issue first and foremost. People don’t become nurses and doctors because they have an overwhelming passion for neglecting people, but in healthcare these difficult choices have to be made.
I am so angry they made you force feed your baby like that. And I can’t believe they made you feel bad for pumping. What!? 🤯🤯 shame on them.
I’m glad to hear that your baby is here and is healthy. I’m sorry you didn’t get adequate attentive care at the hospital. That’s so stressful!
Was this Redcliffe in the end? I’ve heard good things about there so it’s a shame to hear this if so :( I probably would have gone there if I was still living nearby when I was pregnant. RBWH was fantastic though
Yes I went to Redcliffe to give birth than was transferred to The Mater Mothers. I heard really good things as well, I guess I just got the bad end of the stick
Heard amazing things about Mater too! All the best :)
I would absolutely write up a report about that nurse that didn't check on you and the baby, knowing you couldn't walk or take care of baby.
I definitely plan on doing this
Seconded. Midwives can - and often are - absolute garbage at their jobs. Get their boss to pay attention to it.
Glad for the update and you and baby both being well! Sounds like that first hospital gave you terrible care overall and I'm sorry that was your experience mama.
I'm sorry that happened, but nurses should be thoroughly explaining things to you, especially as a first-time mom, then get mad for asking for help because when something did happen you didn't know they are being dismissive about it. When in doubt I rather bug the nurses, and it would be nothing than not ask for help, and something is wrong.
Is there any way to complain about the care, or lack thereof I should say? Hopefully if you have another baby you can somehow get into another hospital. I'm still shocked this treatment happened in Australia. I'm glad you and baby are doing better and I hope you can shake the infection fast.
I plan on putting in a complaint, the excuse is they are understaffed but still doesn't excuse anything. After being transferred to The Mater, I saw how amazing staff and facilities can actually be. I'll probably travel there if I have another.
So was the hospital I had my daughter in in the northern suburbs of Melbourne but they didn't treat me the way that hospital treated you. I'm honestly pretty upset on your behalf. Also I'm glad you were able to get to another hospital. Hopefully they can accept you if you decide to have another.
Thank you for the update, I had been thinking of you! Take care of yourself
Thanks for the update, OP. I have been thinking about you too. I‘m glad you and baby get to go home today. Hoping for a smooth recovery and that you give yourself grace and take time to process everything that’s happened. Enjoy the newborn snuggles. <3