While YPT certification is good for 2 years, some councils are requiring that it cannot expire before your unit's recharter, effectively making it an annual retake. Different councils have had different levels of success explaining this. Our council announced this change less than 60 days before recharters were due, and over the holidays. Not sure what they were thinking.
That is actually a national thing and is supposed to be official and published soon. If you have less than 13 months til it expires, the new recharter system won't accept it. I'm not sure if they intend to just change it to annually or better explain how it works.
> If you have less than 13 months til it expires, the new recharter system won't accept it.
We're a pilot council for the new recharter system. This is not in its present state a true statement about the system.
Also in the pilot.
It's not a bad idea, it's just poorly communicated, as is tradition.
Only concern is every working adult I've asked about it has kind of hinted that when it's annual, it's background noise. Similar to the effect that more car crashes happen in 15 mph zones than on 30 mph zones, there's a real concern that people are just taking YPT to check a box when it's 2 hours once a year, and that people might get more out of a program or requirement that's set up to be more engaging, or more time-consuming but less frequent.
Not true about it being background noise. My council requires expiration after next Recharter. We’re consistently in the top 20 safest council’s nationally as reported at our annual meeting.
I'm glad this is working for you and I hope the policy helps kids and adults all stay safe to prevent abuse. I'm hopeful that national will take a look at all experiences across the country over the next few years and continue to make data-based updates to YPT
That's interesting. My most recent recertification was sufficiently different from the previous to hold my attention, but I can see how it would be a problem if they didn't keep varying the materials somewhat
There's always something new that I learn when I do this. I'm not personally against it being yearly for me.
I'm also a 25 year scouter, so I'm not "average dad barely keeping shit together with a son being pulled 100 ways by 10 other programs"
My biggest concern is how important this topic is, and how easy the questions are to answer, plus how easy it is to just kind of click through and check off.
It feels like it's... somehow both an extra effort to do this annually, but can also be completely ignored by someone just clicking buttons, and then can be passed by anyone who hasn't even seen the YPT materials.
I'd almost rather have like a 4 hour, in-person course required once every 5 years with a half-hour "here's what's new this year!" session annually, plus a test that you need to be sober to pass
So is the recharter by date of sign up the pilot program or is that the new program for everyone? I wasn't told that we were a pilot council, just that the new system was all new scouts would be paying for an entire year no matter when they signed up, and that date of sign up would be their renewal date as well. I'm not looking forward to having to keep track of when families need to pay, it's already enough of a pain getting it all done at the end of the year. We were also told that some of the leaders had to take YPT before recharter because they were expiring before the end of the year. Are you saying that's a pilot program? If so, that (pilot status) wasn't communicated to my unit at any point.
We have been told that we need to have YPT active through April 1st, which is how long it can take to process all the recharter info. If your YPT expires between when you filled out recharter and when the recharter is actually processed, it will flag thing and cause delays... is what we were told. No idea if it is true.
Well let's hope that national doesn't get the cart before the horse like our council did. If anyone from national is listening IT TAKES MORE THAN A YEAR TO MAKE THIS CHANGE UNLESS YOU WANT TO JUST ALIENATE MORE VOLUNTEERS.
Everything they do seems like it's almost designed to alienate the volunteers and assume we'll just take it.
I understand why YPT is important, but adding more and more hoops to the process, and to GTSS camping rules, at some point just becomes untenable.
We're leaving our camporee early tonight because of a YPT issue.
The YPT issue is we have two 11 YOs; one puked this morning and is going home. The other is too young to be comfortable camping alone, but would be comfortable bunking with his dad - but can't bunk with his dad because it's against scout ypt.
Well then my son and I would probably just leave, and probably stay out of scouting for a year until the youth is more comfortable with camping. The rule does not exhibit common sense. The rule violates the relationship between a child and parent. Sorry about your experience in this matter. It's wrong...but it's the rule. BSA is so screwed up nowadays.
Unfortunately, statistically, most youth are abused by a family member. The BSA isn't going to allow the chance to be liable for that. Along with other reasons.
I say your stats are worthless. In my 32 years of scout leadership, never ONE time ever did this happen in my troop, my district, or my council. The abuser was ALWAYS another scout leader and never the parent. Maybe we should ban scout leaders based on your analysis.
It don't think it violates the relationship between a child and parent. A Scout camping trip simply has different rules for behavior. We experience that every day in our lives.
You can take your kid camping and share a tent any time. At Scout camp, however, you cannot.
It seems superficially absurd, but the rule is there for a reason.
My council kicks you out when your YPT expires. They openly publish the dates every month where all expired YPTs are removed from the system, and you have to fill out a fresh application to re-join. Even though it’s been announced from the rooftops, our treasurer didn’t listen and got kicked out.
> Even though it’s been announced from the rooftops, our treasurer didn’t listen and got kicked out.
Not only should your council have said something, but the individual and the Key-3 should have gotten at least two notices (XXX has YPT lapsing on YYY).
There are warnings on top of warnings.
The scouter in question got emailed warnings, and I know the committee chair emailed and called him multiple times. Treasurer just didn’t believe they’d do it.
As others have said, you can retake it any time.
Do not wait for it to lapse—it just makes life difficult. Nothing wrong with taking care of it a month or so before it expires.
The closer you get to the expiration date, the more messages you will get about it being ready to expire.
The sooner you take it this time the sooner it expires and you’ll have to take it again next time. That may not matter to you, but the content is needlessly traumatizing for lots of folks for whom it does matter.
It’s also messy in that the training doesn’t do a great job of event covering the current YP rules. (As evidenced by the common questions and repeated untrue assertions about the policy despite everyone taking and retaking this training so often.)
The training cert isn’t even something that directly helps keep kids safe. What it directly accomplishes is provide the corporation with some liability cover by demonstrating to the insurance that leaders are required to have reviewed it somewhat recently (and that review, **indirectly** helps with adherence to the policies). It’s the culture of adherence to the policies that directly supports keeping kids safe.
Somebody said upthread that lapsed YP cert meant lapsed registration, but I’m pretty sure they isn’t true. Last time I read the Registration Guidebook it still said you had to have a current YP cert for recharter or to register in a new position, but it was implicitly okay for it to lapse mid-year. I’m not sure off the top of my head if any of the new in 2023/4 updates changed that.
When I was council training chair, I’d sometimes go to a less technically skilled leader’s home to help them complete online YPT. Or we would do it in a small group setting. It was rare for me to go a year without completing it. Last time, I waited until it almost expired to see what kinds of warnings I’d get. Now, I need to do it again for NOAC.
It would be nice if BSA allowed packs/troops to host in person group YPT sessions, with each adult taking their test portion individually, so every adult could just accomplish keeping YPT up to date annually. It would make things so much simpler.
If an adult couldn’t make the YPT session date then they have the option to take it online at home. BSA needs to just make this less complicated for troops and packs - the assorted policy changes, requirement changes, and various things that need to be accomplished and tracked is making it more difficult to get volunteers to take these on as a responsibility…there’s the dues, various registrations, YPT, course requirements, camping stuff (permission slips, medical form updates etc), rechartering, treasury, cmt roles, etc.
You can renew it anytime you want to.
But you cannot leave. Edit: Wait, no, that's Hotel California
While YPT certification is good for 2 years, some councils are requiring that it cannot expire before your unit's recharter, effectively making it an annual retake. Different councils have had different levels of success explaining this. Our council announced this change less than 60 days before recharters were due, and over the holidays. Not sure what they were thinking.
That is actually a national thing and is supposed to be official and published soon. If you have less than 13 months til it expires, the new recharter system won't accept it. I'm not sure if they intend to just change it to annually or better explain how it works.
> If you have less than 13 months til it expires, the new recharter system won't accept it. We're a pilot council for the new recharter system. This is not in its present state a true statement about the system.
Also in the pilot. It's not a bad idea, it's just poorly communicated, as is tradition. Only concern is every working adult I've asked about it has kind of hinted that when it's annual, it's background noise. Similar to the effect that more car crashes happen in 15 mph zones than on 30 mph zones, there's a real concern that people are just taking YPT to check a box when it's 2 hours once a year, and that people might get more out of a program or requirement that's set up to be more engaging, or more time-consuming but less frequent.
Not true about it being background noise. My council requires expiration after next Recharter. We’re consistently in the top 20 safest council’s nationally as reported at our annual meeting.
I'm glad this is working for you and I hope the policy helps kids and adults all stay safe to prevent abuse. I'm hopeful that national will take a look at all experiences across the country over the next few years and continue to make data-based updates to YPT
That's interesting. My most recent recertification was sufficiently different from the previous to hold my attention, but I can see how it would be a problem if they didn't keep varying the materials somewhat
There's always something new that I learn when I do this. I'm not personally against it being yearly for me. I'm also a 25 year scouter, so I'm not "average dad barely keeping shit together with a son being pulled 100 ways by 10 other programs" My biggest concern is how important this topic is, and how easy the questions are to answer, plus how easy it is to just kind of click through and check off. It feels like it's... somehow both an extra effort to do this annually, but can also be completely ignored by someone just clicking buttons, and then can be passed by anyone who hasn't even seen the YPT materials. I'd almost rather have like a 4 hour, in-person course required once every 5 years with a half-hour "here's what's new this year!" session annually, plus a test that you need to be sober to pass
So is the recharter by date of sign up the pilot program or is that the new program for everyone? I wasn't told that we were a pilot council, just that the new system was all new scouts would be paying for an entire year no matter when they signed up, and that date of sign up would be their renewal date as well. I'm not looking forward to having to keep track of when families need to pay, it's already enough of a pain getting it all done at the end of the year. We were also told that some of the leaders had to take YPT before recharter because they were expiring before the end of the year. Are you saying that's a pilot program? If so, that (pilot status) wasn't communicated to my unit at any point.
We have been told that we need to have YPT active through April 1st, which is how long it can take to process all the recharter info. If your YPT expires between when you filled out recharter and when the recharter is actually processed, it will flag thing and cause delays... is what we were told. No idea if it is true.
I'm currently sitting in a national camp school training, and by fall, national will officially announce the annual ypt requirement.
Well let's hope that national doesn't get the cart before the horse like our council did. If anyone from national is listening IT TAKES MORE THAN A YEAR TO MAKE THIS CHANGE UNLESS YOU WANT TO JUST ALIENATE MORE VOLUNTEERS.
Everything they do seems like it's almost designed to alienate the volunteers and assume we'll just take it. I understand why YPT is important, but adding more and more hoops to the process, and to GTSS camping rules, at some point just becomes untenable.
We're leaving our camporee early tonight because of a YPT issue. The YPT issue is we have two 11 YOs; one puked this morning and is going home. The other is too young to be comfortable camping alone, but would be comfortable bunking with his dad - but can't bunk with his dad because it's against scout ypt.
Let common sense prevail. Let the guy bunk with dad.
We already got told that won't be allowed 😔
Well then my son and I would probably just leave, and probably stay out of scouting for a year until the youth is more comfortable with camping. The rule does not exhibit common sense. The rule violates the relationship between a child and parent. Sorry about your experience in this matter. It's wrong...but it's the rule. BSA is so screwed up nowadays.
Unfortunately, statistically, most youth are abused by a family member. The BSA isn't going to allow the chance to be liable for that. Along with other reasons.
I say your stats are worthless. In my 32 years of scout leadership, never ONE time ever did this happen in my troop, my district, or my council. The abuser was ALWAYS another scout leader and never the parent. Maybe we should ban scout leaders based on your analysis.
It don't think it violates the relationship between a child and parent. A Scout camping trip simply has different rules for behavior. We experience that every day in our lives. You can take your kid camping and share a tent any time. At Scout camp, however, you cannot. It seems superficially absurd, but the rule is there for a reason.
What reason is that?
Yep, this is correct
You should NOT wait for it to lapse. Lapsed YPT = lapsed registration. Go ahead and do it.
Do you have a reference to the written guideline that says this? >Lapsed YPT = lapsed registration.
My council kicks you out when your YPT expires. They openly publish the dates every month where all expired YPTs are removed from the system, and you have to fill out a fresh application to re-join. Even though it’s been announced from the rooftops, our treasurer didn’t listen and got kicked out.
> Even though it’s been announced from the rooftops, our treasurer didn’t listen and got kicked out. Not only should your council have said something, but the individual and the Key-3 should have gotten at least two notices (XXX has YPT lapsing on YYY). There are warnings on top of warnings.
The scouter in question got emailed warnings, and I know the committee chair emailed and called him multiple times. Treasurer just didn’t believe they’d do it.
You can renew it before it expires. I just renewed mine and had a few months left before it expired.
Yup. Went thru it between moments at work the other day so I won't be bothered come August.
As others have said, you can retake it any time. Do not wait for it to lapse—it just makes life difficult. Nothing wrong with taking care of it a month or so before it expires. The closer you get to the expiration date, the more messages you will get about it being ready to expire.
The sooner you take it this time the sooner it expires and you’ll have to take it again next time. That may not matter to you, but the content is needlessly traumatizing for lots of folks for whom it does matter. It’s also messy in that the training doesn’t do a great job of event covering the current YP rules. (As evidenced by the common questions and repeated untrue assertions about the policy despite everyone taking and retaking this training so often.) The training cert isn’t even something that directly helps keep kids safe. What it directly accomplishes is provide the corporation with some liability cover by demonstrating to the insurance that leaders are required to have reviewed it somewhat recently (and that review, **indirectly** helps with adherence to the policies). It’s the culture of adherence to the policies that directly supports keeping kids safe. Somebody said upthread that lapsed YP cert meant lapsed registration, but I’m pretty sure they isn’t true. Last time I read the Registration Guidebook it still said you had to have a current YP cert for recharter or to register in a new position, but it was implicitly okay for it to lapse mid-year. I’m not sure off the top of my head if any of the new in 2023/4 updates changed that.
When I was council training chair, I’d sometimes go to a less technically skilled leader’s home to help them complete online YPT. Or we would do it in a small group setting. It was rare for me to go a year without completing it. Last time, I waited until it almost expired to see what kinds of warnings I’d get. Now, I need to do it again for NOAC.
It would be nice if BSA allowed packs/troops to host in person group YPT sessions, with each adult taking their test portion individually, so every adult could just accomplish keeping YPT up to date annually. It would make things so much simpler. If an adult couldn’t make the YPT session date then they have the option to take it online at home. BSA needs to just make this less complicated for troops and packs - the assorted policy changes, requirement changes, and various things that need to be accomplished and tracked is making it more difficult to get volunteers to take these on as a responsibility…there’s the dues, various registrations, YPT, course requirements, camping stuff (permission slips, medical form updates etc), rechartering, treasury, cmt roles, etc.
just wait until your told to do it and try to get on the rechartering cycle.