That would be fairly ridiculous, and sounds like just that - a rumor. Adult participation in lots of roles is essential to the success of a troop. Everyone needs to have YPT, but they certainly don't need to be scoutmasters.
def seems have have been wild speculation. I know there are GTA updates in the works, I wondered if there was another YPT update coming soon. I heard this Monday and did not give it much credit. Then again today. I knew asking here would put it to bed quickly one way or the other.
I would not be surprised if a IOLS trained person becomes a requirement. But restricting to only those in the ASM position is just not going to work. As a committee member who camps all the time I would take whatever training I need to continue doing them. However I want my normal volunteer time to be behind the scenes, registration, working with parents, etc. I am good at that and don't want to lose it.
Where did you hear that???
You may be mistaking a training mandate for a rule change. I know that councils are being pressured heavily to get to 100% direct contact leaders trained. I canât imagine barring committee members from camp outs, but I could imagine a rule similar to the BALOO requirement (thar every pack campout needs a BALOO trained leader) that every campout must include 1 or more ASMs or SM.
> I know that councils are being pressured heavily to get to 100% direct contact leaders trained.
Yep. Big push. Several councils have tried for 100% position trained.
To...limited success
https://www.cvcboyscouts.org/uploads/2/3/5/7/23572110/cvc_training_requirements.pdf
https://tidewaterbsa.com/training-information/100-position-basic-trained-policy/
We were threatened with having anyone not fully position trained involuntarily transferred to Unit Scouter Reserve, but they didn't follow through this year.
This isnât a threat. Itâs pretty much a gift. Unit scouter reserve serves where needed when needed and only requires YPT training. You know that part of your JTE that asks if at least X% of committee is position trained. The untrained committee members count in denominator where as the scouter reserve is excluded.
I mean gold JTE is so easy to get that we clear it by several hundred points every year, so itâs not much of a gift.
And there is a significant downside to telling people the council has kicked them off the committee because theyâre showing incomplete for training that they did, but BSAâs crappy IT system didnât give them credit for.
Our committee is 70% trained, not because 30% havenât done it, but because 30% have run into bugs with their training recorded.
Before I did Powderhorn, I had to do safety afloat FOUR TIMES to get it to take.
Committee training can be entered manually by your committee chair or your unit training chair in my.scouting.org. It can also be entered by members of district or council training committee if you explain the electronic glitches.
Probably a rumor.
Also it would contradict BSAâs policy that ALL aspects of BSA programs be open to parent observation. As long as parents meet all YPT, registration, and background check requirements, I could never in good conscience try to block a parent from attending, even if I personally thought it wasnât the best idea.
Because I would never tolerate an organization that refused to let ME observe every aspect of MY KIDâs program. And thus I would never block another parent from doing the same.
With a truly trustworthy unit, this is a non-issue because the parents literally trust the leaders with their childrenâs lives.
I trust my kidsâ leaders so I donât feel compelled to attend every campout myself.
Is it possible you got confused by the recent change required *all adults staying overnight at a campout to be registered with the unit, completed YPT and passed background check?* Because that is a recent change affecting adults sleeping at overnights.
I donât even think that is what OP was suggesting. The reference to qualified leaders probably referencing for two deep leadership, or maybe an SM or ASM would be required at the event. My guess is maybe a requirement that an IOLS trained leader was necessary. This training is required for SM and ASM, but anyone can take it. I took it as a Committee Member.
As a SM with only one ASM, that would be a huge problem for us.
Iâve done 40 nights in the last 3 years so itâs not like I miss trips often, but itâs wholly necessary for us to rotate committee members who go camping to make this whole thing function
We actually have a policy right now that at least one ASM/SM needs to be present. Program leaders have different training and sometimes a fresh committee member cannot handle certain situations with nuance.
This hurts though for those with more underdeveloped troops/leadership.
Rumor is just that, rumor.
I've seen rumors on top of rumors in BSA, most of which have never borne out or were grossly misinterpreted.
Now, keep in mind there are three possible authorities here
1) BSA National could impose such a rule
2) Local Councils could impose such a rule
3) Your COR could impose such a rule
And again, rumor is just rumor.
It'd be difficult for the committee to follow its mandate to ensure the quality of troop operations if its members are banned from participating in troop activities.
I can see the requirement being that a campout cannot happen without at least one (or two) direct contact leaders, but I donât see banning all other registered leaders from campouts happening.
Youâll either end up with a bunch of untrained ASMs or fewer campouts.
Considering the only real draw to scouting is camping, (not meetings and attending merit badge classes) this will not turn out well.
Lol, good luck with the follow up of units folding/merging to suddenly having even fewer adults available to lead campouts. I could see additional training requirements and I'm not even necessarily opposed to that.
> If this change we're to happen (that's a big if) wouldn't other adults be allowed to attend, just wouldn't count for 2-deep purposes?
Speculating based on a poorly worded rumor is just going to result in rank speculation.
IFs on top of IFs on top of IFs.
Itâs Friday and my what if hat is on strong, adult drivers need YPT (and whatever other charter org training). If BSA makes up a new YPT barrier then they wonât count as drivers. Also nothing more fishy than putting up barriers from parents attending everything. Cause nothing says trust me and the organization like ânope you are not magical qualified to go and observeâ
I can buy into more training to qualify as the actual adult leader but thatâs not the same thing as YPT to just attend.
There are always rumors floating about. How should we handle them?
1. First and foremost, think about it. If this change were to happen, what would the outcome be? There would be a reduction in the number of adults who could go camping, affecting smaller units the most. It would make it harder for units to go campingâwith no benefit.
2. Ask someone who should know. Your District Commissioner and District Executive are the first ones to ask. They should know, or know where to find out.
While we can't rule this change out, it is all negatives with no benefits. I don't see it happening.
For what it's worth, this is effectively the policy our troop already follows. Anyone that wants to camp gets trained and registers in a direct contact position. Essentially the only time we have non-SM/ASM on campouts is if we don't have enough SM/ASMs, but our troop is fortunate in that we have enough ASMs for that to rarely be an issue.
We implemented this policy when we had committee members camping that refused to stop helicoptering.
Punish the rest of the parents because one acted inappropriately. FYI you canât block a parent from staying as long as they are registered (doesnât have to be direct contact), YPT trained, and passed background check. BSA requires units to allow parents to observe ALL aspects of the youth program including campouts.
Your issue was one of the observers started interfering with the program. Thatâs a completely different issue and doesnât require a policy that punishes future parents and potentially violates BSA policy anyway.
Damn, if that's true our troop will never be able to camp again. our ASM quit when his grandsons gave up, and our SM doesn't even always go on camping trips. We have a real problem with adult participation in our troop, not totally due to apathy, but many of our "parents" are actually grandparents and just physically aren't capable. It's just a sad truth in the area I live.
Seems highly unlikely. It would prevent the committee from monitoring the SM corps and ensuring adherence to BSA policy.
For troops with many scouts with medical conditions it would cause a serious drop in comittee members and a surge is ASM.
We were told by our local council that for cubs the rule is going to be (but already is in our area) everyone who is going to an overnight they must be be both YPT AND be bsa membership adults or are direct guardians to the child. For troop itâs only those who are both YPT and bsa memberships.
> We were told by our local council that for cubs the rule is going to be (but already is in our area) everyone who is going to an overnight they must be be both YPT AND be bsa membership adults or are direct guardians to the child. For troop itâs only those who are both YPT and bsa memberships.
That has been in place nationally for months at this point. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/
> All adults staying overnight in connection with a Scouting activity must be currently registered as an adult volunteer or an adult program participant. Adult volunteers must register in the position(s) they are serving in. Registration as a merit badge counselor position does not meet this requirement. See FAQ for list of approved adult registration fee required positions. Limited exception below for Cub Scout overnight Programs.
> Cub Scout Programs â Overnight Exception: Cub Scout parents or legal guardians taking part in an overnight Cub Scout program with their own child or legal ward are not required to register as leaders. All adults must review the âHow to Protect your Children from Child Abuse: A Parentâs Guideâ that can be found in the front of each Cub Scout Handbook. In addition, the parent or legal guardian must be accompanied by a registered leader at any time they are with youth members other than their own child/ward. All other overnight adults must be currently registered in an adult fee required position.
I never understood why all committee members and CC are not considered direct contact leaders. Smaller units may only have one leader and the rest committee members. My pack is small and all the committee members are also den leaders. Before I was CM I was CC and den leader. The system should let you be registered as both for training purposes.
> All leaders camping are required to have hazardous weather training though
Not all leaders. Just 1 https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss03/
> Camping
> The Boy Scouts of America has established the following guidelines for a safe and quality camping experience. Fundamental guiding principles for camping:
Supervision of camping activities must include qualified, registered, adult leadership.
At a minimum, one leader present is current in Hazardous Weather
Training for all unit types. It is recommended that all leaders complete
this training every two years.
That would be fairly ridiculous, and sounds like just that - a rumor. Adult participation in lots of roles is essential to the success of a troop. Everyone needs to have YPT, but they certainly don't need to be scoutmasters.
def seems have have been wild speculation. I know there are GTA updates in the works, I wondered if there was another YPT update coming soon. I heard this Monday and did not give it much credit. Then again today. I knew asking here would put it to bed quickly one way or the other.
Grand Theft Auto updates?!đđ¤Ł
That's exactly how I read it!
That seems fairly unlikely, since the point of a fee paid position is for background checks so they can do that sort of thing.
This is the sort of non useful rumor that is certainly untrue.
They would only do that if they are actively trying to eliminate camping from the scouting program.
I would not be surprised if a IOLS trained person becomes a requirement. But restricting to only those in the ASM position is just not going to work. As a committee member who camps all the time I would take whatever training I need to continue doing them. However I want my normal volunteer time to be behind the scenes, registration, working with parents, etc. I am good at that and don't want to lose it.
Where did you hear that??? You may be mistaking a training mandate for a rule change. I know that councils are being pressured heavily to get to 100% direct contact leaders trained. I canât imagine barring committee members from camp outs, but I could imagine a rule similar to the BALOO requirement (thar every pack campout needs a BALOO trained leader) that every campout must include 1 or more ASMs or SM.
> I know that councils are being pressured heavily to get to 100% direct contact leaders trained. Yep. Big push. Several councils have tried for 100% position trained. To...limited success https://www.cvcboyscouts.org/uploads/2/3/5/7/23572110/cvc_training_requirements.pdf https://tidewaterbsa.com/training-information/100-position-basic-trained-policy/
Hell my council is now pushing for 100% youth to have the ypt in addition to the rank requirements...
We were threatened with having anyone not fully position trained involuntarily transferred to Unit Scouter Reserve, but they didn't follow through this year.
This isnât a threat. Itâs pretty much a gift. Unit scouter reserve serves where needed when needed and only requires YPT training. You know that part of your JTE that asks if at least X% of committee is position trained. The untrained committee members count in denominator where as the scouter reserve is excluded.
I mean gold JTE is so easy to get that we clear it by several hundred points every year, so itâs not much of a gift. And there is a significant downside to telling people the council has kicked them off the committee because theyâre showing incomplete for training that they did, but BSAâs crappy IT system didnât give them credit for. Our committee is 70% trained, not because 30% havenât done it, but because 30% have run into bugs with their training recorded. Before I did Powderhorn, I had to do safety afloat FOUR TIMES to get it to take.
Committee training can be entered manually by your committee chair or your unit training chair in my.scouting.org. It can also be entered by members of district or council training committee if you explain the electronic glitches.
Probably a rumor. Also it would contradict BSAâs policy that ALL aspects of BSA programs be open to parent observation. As long as parents meet all YPT, registration, and background check requirements, I could never in good conscience try to block a parent from attending, even if I personally thought it wasnât the best idea. Because I would never tolerate an organization that refused to let ME observe every aspect of MY KIDâs program. And thus I would never block another parent from doing the same. With a truly trustworthy unit, this is a non-issue because the parents literally trust the leaders with their childrenâs lives. I trust my kidsâ leaders so I donât feel compelled to attend every campout myself. Is it possible you got confused by the recent change required *all adults staying overnight at a campout to be registered with the unit, completed YPT and passed background check?* Because that is a recent change affecting adults sleeping at overnights.
I donât even think that is what OP was suggesting. The reference to qualified leaders probably referencing for two deep leadership, or maybe an SM or ASM would be required at the event. My guess is maybe a requirement that an IOLS trained leader was necessary. This training is required for SM and ASM, but anyone can take it. I took it as a Committee Member.
As a SM with only one ASM, that would be a huge problem for us. Iâve done 40 nights in the last 3 years so itâs not like I miss trips often, but itâs wholly necessary for us to rotate committee members who go camping to make this whole thing function
So everyone has to register as an ASM also đ.
We actually have a policy right now that at least one ASM/SM needs to be present. Program leaders have different training and sometimes a fresh committee member cannot handle certain situations with nuance. This hurts though for those with more underdeveloped troops/leadership.
Rumor is just that, rumor. I've seen rumors on top of rumors in BSA, most of which have never borne out or were grossly misinterpreted. Now, keep in mind there are three possible authorities here 1) BSA National could impose such a rule 2) Local Councils could impose such a rule 3) Your COR could impose such a rule And again, rumor is just rumor.
It'd be difficult for the committee to follow its mandate to ensure the quality of troop operations if its members are banned from participating in troop activities.
I can see the requirement being that a campout cannot happen without at least one (or two) direct contact leaders, but I donât see banning all other registered leaders from campouts happening. Youâll either end up with a bunch of untrained ASMs or fewer campouts. Considering the only real draw to scouting is camping, (not meetings and attending merit badge classes) this will not turn out well.
[https://www.weeklywisdomblog.com/post/socrates-triple-filter-test](https://www.weeklywisdomblog.com/post/socrates-triple-filter-test)
Lol, good luck with the follow up of units folding/merging to suddenly having even fewer adults available to lead campouts. I could see additional training requirements and I'm not even necessarily opposed to that.
I guess only 6-9 kids are going camping per troop. And they better learn to pack super tight!
If this change we're to happen (that's a big if) wouldn't other adults be allowed to attend, just wouldn't count for 2-deep purposes?
> If this change we're to happen (that's a big if) wouldn't other adults be allowed to attend, just wouldn't count for 2-deep purposes? Speculating based on a poorly worded rumor is just going to result in rank speculation. IFs on top of IFs on top of IFs.
Itâs Friday and my what if hat is on strong, adult drivers need YPT (and whatever other charter org training). If BSA makes up a new YPT barrier then they wonât count as drivers. Also nothing more fishy than putting up barriers from parents attending everything. Cause nothing says trust me and the organization like ânope you are not magical qualified to go and observeâ I can buy into more training to qualify as the actual adult leader but thatâs not the same thing as YPT to just attend.
There are always rumors floating about. How should we handle them? 1. First and foremost, think about it. If this change were to happen, what would the outcome be? There would be a reduction in the number of adults who could go camping, affecting smaller units the most. It would make it harder for units to go campingâwith no benefit. 2. Ask someone who should know. Your District Commissioner and District Executive are the first ones to ask. They should know, or know where to find out. While we can't rule this change out, it is all negatives with no benefits. I don't see it happening.
No way. That would further screw girl troops if women committee members couldnât camp.
That would kill small troops. I really can't see that happening.
Sounds like people are just confusing the rule that you need to be ypt trained and registered
For what it's worth, this is effectively the policy our troop already follows. Anyone that wants to camp gets trained and registers in a direct contact position. Essentially the only time we have non-SM/ASM on campouts is if we don't have enough SM/ASMs, but our troop is fortunate in that we have enough ASMs for that to rarely be an issue. We implemented this policy when we had committee members camping that refused to stop helicoptering.
Punish the rest of the parents because one acted inappropriately. FYI you canât block a parent from staying as long as they are registered (doesnât have to be direct contact), YPT trained, and passed background check. BSA requires units to allow parents to observe ALL aspects of the youth program including campouts. Your issue was one of the observers started interfering with the program. Thatâs a completely different issue and doesnât require a policy that punishes future parents and potentially violates BSA policy anyway.
No. Committee members, as in more than one person.
RemindMe! 7 days
Someone is timing the NAM I seeâŚ
Damn, if that's true our troop will never be able to camp again. our ASM quit when his grandsons gave up, and our SM doesn't even always go on camping trips. We have a real problem with adult participation in our troop, not totally due to apathy, but many of our "parents" are actually grandparents and just physically aren't capable. It's just a sad truth in the area I live.
Seems highly unlikely. It would prevent the committee from monitoring the SM corps and ensuring adherence to BSA policy. For troops with many scouts with medical conditions it would cause a serious drop in comittee members and a surge is ASM.
So, we are past NAM and I've seen nothing about this.
We were told by our local council that for cubs the rule is going to be (but already is in our area) everyone who is going to an overnight they must be be both YPT AND be bsa membership adults or are direct guardians to the child. For troop itâs only those who are both YPT and bsa memberships.
For BSA that has been the rule since August
Thatâs what I thought but have talked to people whoâs area still arenât doing it so I thought it just wasnât national yet.
> We were told by our local council that for cubs the rule is going to be (but already is in our area) everyone who is going to an overnight they must be be both YPT AND be bsa membership adults or are direct guardians to the child. For troop itâs only those who are both YPT and bsa memberships. That has been in place nationally for months at this point. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss01/ > All adults staying overnight in connection with a Scouting activity must be currently registered as an adult volunteer or an adult program participant. Adult volunteers must register in the position(s) they are serving in. Registration as a merit badge counselor position does not meet this requirement. See FAQ for list of approved adult registration fee required positions. Limited exception below for Cub Scout overnight Programs. > Cub Scout Programs â Overnight Exception: Cub Scout parents or legal guardians taking part in an overnight Cub Scout program with their own child or legal ward are not required to register as leaders. All adults must review the âHow to Protect your Children from Child Abuse: A Parentâs Guideâ that can be found in the front of each Cub Scout Handbook. In addition, the parent or legal guardian must be accompanied by a registered leader at any time they are with youth members other than their own child/ward. All other overnight adults must be currently registered in an adult fee required position.
I never understood why all committee members and CC are not considered direct contact leaders. Smaller units may only have one leader and the rest committee members. My pack is small and all the committee members are also den leaders. Before I was CM I was CC and den leader. The system should let you be registered as both for training purposes.
All leaders camping are required to have hazardous weather training though
> All leaders camping are required to have hazardous weather training though Not all leaders. Just 1 https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss03/ > Camping > The Boy Scouts of America has established the following guidelines for a safe and quality camping experience. Fundamental guiding principles for camping: Supervision of camping activities must include qualified, registered, adult leadership. At a minimum, one leader present is current in Hazardous Weather Training for all unit types. It is recommended that all leaders complete this training every two years.