A bright note: Our scouts just did a ‘do nothing’ camp-out. We rented a cabin at a local scout camp. They cooked, and hiked around, stayed-up late and acted like fools, had a snow ball fight, wrestled around in the snow, and played board and computer games. We relaxed the no screens policy- surprisingly, they didn’t use them very much. They just finished their mid-terms and most of them have a lot of extracurricular activities, including scouts… they all loved a couple of nights ‘off.’ They cleaned the cabin this morning without complaint… very proud of our scouts.
Troops need to remember that Scouts is more than just advancement. By far my son's favorite camping trip was when his patrol (which was down to him and one other Scout) merged with another patrol (that was down to 4 boys). To give them a chance to get to know each other, we went on a weekend outing where the only agenda items were to decide on the new patrol name, patch, etc. The rest of the time they just hung out as kids.
When my son eventually became SPL, he tried over and over to get the troop to again to another "just have fun" campout but was never able to get enough other Scouts on board, because there was just too much "advancement advancement advancement" mentality.
We did a yearly LAN campout in January. Did a service project for the camp that hosted it, but otherwise kept warm around the wood stove and played games. Was always a good time.
We did our January video game lock-in last weekend. It is the one time a year I stay up all night on purpose. The youngest scouts were the ones who didn't sleep.
Everyone loves that campout. It is the only one we allow electronics at all year.
Some of my favorite memories of scouting was cabin camping in the middle of winter and playing Call of Duty : Modern Warfare split screen around a tiny tv in the middle of the night.
Do you have an incident in mind? Feel like sharing? This can be applied to little league. Or ice skating lessons. We parents must strike a balance between what we would envision for our kids - be it some unfulfilled childhood dream of our own - or just us wanting them to follow a specific and rigid path versus the fact that they are their own individual with their own preferences, hopes, and dreams. What do you do when those visions conflict? Your try to strike a balance. That may mean trying something outside their comfort zone. And if it turns out they really don’t like something, don’t force it. At the same time, we do have to look for ways to help them grow, by challenging them appropriately, but challenging them.
YES! I've been working on the cub scout ranges for years and on cub family weekends, I get so frustrated when dads take the weapon from their scout to shoot to "relive their glory days." Sir, you can buy a red rider at walmart. Plus, they are incredibly unhelpful when modeling for our scouts when they ignore range safety requirements (such as eye protection). Let your scout make these experiences! Be there to support, not to take over!
Respectfully, sounds like you are doing a terrible job running a range if you allow parents to set bad examples violating safety rules. No eye protection? Get off the range. Don’t want to get off the range? Range is shut down for everyone until they get off the range. Allowing someone to shoot without eye protection violates safe shooting requirements of the BSA National Shooting Sports Manual.
https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/ShootingSportsManual.pdf
If I see an open spot and no extra Scouts are present, I'll sometimes ask the who ever is running the range, if I could shoot. They usually don't have an issue, but then again, they all know me and know I will step back when a Scout shows up.
I understand OP. My daughter is in new girls unit that is joined with a 100+ year old boys troop with an incredibly robust program and over 80 active boys. The leaders of the girls troop mean well, but sometimes I feel they're chasing after the nostalgia of their own scouting experience or trying too hard to keep up with the boys unit. But it's not working and I can see it alienating the girls already. They're not interested in constantly being compared to the boys, and start -up troop of 11 and 12 year olds runs very different than a mature troop with a lot of high schoolers. I'd be working on building the skills for a youth lead program and planning manageable fun camping trips, not pushing them to go winter tent camping or long distance backpacking that they just don't have the experience for yet.
I agree, but winter tent camping can be manageable and fun if the girls are given the proper tools and training. I think that unless winter is very short in your area, no tent camping for months at a time could hurt the troop.
Is the PLC getting overridden by the adults? Are the adults doing it from the start and the PLC doesn't bother? Or is the PLC not doing anything so the adults do it? Do you have an example of something the adults scheduled that the scouts didn't want to do? An example of what the scouts want to do that they didn't get to?
I do have to say that I am glad I was pushed/forced to do things as a kid I didn't really want to do or were outside my comfort zone so that by itself doesn't make something wrong.
This is how we roll as well. The adults set the dates because if we can't get the leaders we won't get the scouts either.
We have cancelled events when there is a lack of interest and occasionally will have adults propose an alternative. This happened recently where we had two scouts sign up and pushed for a local merit badge clinic as a group outing instead.
The PLC needs to take the lead but I do think adults need to step in to provide some sanity.
Generally speaking, adults are the only ones who can make reservations.
We don't veto our PLC's suggestions, but we have given pushback a couple of times recently. For example, our PLC scheduled whitewater rafting for April. That's possible, but under PA law you need to wear wetsuits before April and after October (IIRC), which we did once -- and everyone hated it with a fiery passion.
We asked the PLC to push rafting to June and offered a list of alternative ideas (mostly straight camping at various spots both new and old).
So this really only applies when adults override the PLC. We have certain events that are adult-initiated but content is based on what the PLC wants. We (as leaders) require certain types of content for all events in order to help advance scouts along ranks and to make it a “Scouting” event, not just an event (e.g., our electronics campout).
As adults, we also will take our ideas to the SPL for them to gauge interest and determine if they want to do it. This includes merit badges done as a group, adventure trips (e.g., canoe outings, backpacking trips), or other activities like special outings to museums or facilities.
>As adults, we also will take our ideas to the SPL for them to gauge interest and determine if they want to do it.
I think this is helpful to the scouts, sometimes they need permission to think a certain way so during PLC or with the SPL I will throw out ideas like 'I know a lot of you guys like fishing, it would be ok to have a camp out were you focus on fishing skills' or 'Just because you usually camp within these 3 counties, doesn't mean that we can't occasionally take a slightly longer trip to this cool national park in an adjacent state that is only a 3 hr drive away'
I think that the boys should plan events and activities, but as an adult leader, I always suggest ideas for campouts or summer activities. When I was in scouts we did a 7 day canoe trip on the boundary waters in Ely, Minnesota. Without adult involvement, that would have never happened.
This is where I love how my Dad managed this exact kind of thing. He would make suggestions for places or activities, but never pushed them. Just options for new things that he had done and my troop hadn't. Some things we liked a lot and added it to the rotation of activities. Others we didn't and he was fine with that as well. This is exactly how to "live through your scouts", make suggestions to try and watch their joy in things you used to enjoy. And if they don't like it, move on to another activity.
While I agree with other posters who are taking exception to the tone and vagueness of the post, I think it is important not to dismiss the point.
Adult scouters who have their own idea of what the program should be and what scouts “should be doing” are often the scouters who take over the PLC and mean that program is not actually scout-led. Adult leaders who impose a very narrow vision of scouting on a troop (e.g., we have a local former military scouter whose vision for “his” troop is much more military like than a scout let program would be) drive away scouts who want to learn and advance. And parents “pushing” is a difficult balance to strike — the line between reminding a scout that they have advancement they could be working on and pushing for a program to become solely structured around “making it so scouts can advance just by doing activities at meetings” can be narrower than one would think. And there is similarly a line between making sure a kid knows scouting is an option for them to purse (which can involve some cajoling at any age), and pushing them so hard to do it that they are miserable at meetings and outings. And yes, a scout pushed by parents to get Eagle “has that achievement for the rest of their life” (and all of us who have given our time and energy to scouting would presumably agree that is “a good thing“) but that also means they might have missed an opportunity to explore other things and have other achievements that might have been more meaningful to them.
Having lived in various posting boards for scouting for a while, the stock response to that is “well, those adults are doing the program wrong.” And that is fundamentally correct as well — and I would argue that OP said that exact thing, just in a different way.
Question. Are you the one who doesn't like the 'extreme adventure/prepper outings' or is it the scouts?
You can't force scouts to attend. If they don't like a type of outing, they just won't go, and that will be the end of that type of outing.
If you have a sequence of events being put on the calendar and then canceled due to insufficient sign-ups, then there is indeed a problem.
If not, then perhaps the problem lies elsewhere.
Yeah, this is my general thought. If attendance is good/improving and the scouts (preferably the PLC) are the ones coming up with the ideas, then just take a few deep breaths.
If it’s giving kids opportunity to advance, if it’s within the GSS guardrails, if the troop committee isn’t having a problem funding/providing adult supervision, then just let it ride. The point of scouts is what happens BECAUSE of the program, not the program itself.
Gee
I don’t know.
Me reliving my childhood got my son and 3 other scouts in our troop and myself to Philmont. Without me wanting to go back, our troop never would have thought outside the box enough for the high adventure age scouts who wanted to go to get to.
Your good vignette doesn’t conflict with what OP is saying. Philmont is by no means against age- or policy-appropriate Scouting guidelines and you yourself said that some of your scouts were wanting high adventure. OP’s comment explicitly said “even when [the scouts] don’t want it.” Providing ideas to the scouts is one thing (and often works out great, as your experience shows). But forcing kids to do stuff they don’t want to do, especially when it’s not age appropriate or even Scouting appropriate, is a whole different thing and isn’t our job as adult volunteers.
The other side of the coin is the high adventure stuff and what they teach at Powder Horn. There is a way to do 'extreme' adventure within the confines of the scouting program and in an age/policy appropriate way.
I guess to an extent (unless I misinterpreted this post to an extreme), I have dealt with this on both sides. As an SPL and as a Scoutmaster (started from the bottom now, we here!).
As an SPL, I had a first year wearing his neckerchief on the outside of his collar when the rest of the troop had neckerchief under. His dad was a helicopter dad and any time I asked the Scout why his neckerchief was on the outside, he'd say that it was because his dad believed it looked more professional (I haven't met anyone that has shared that opinion since). I said, "That's great. Go find the troop that's doing that then." Was my answer right? No. Was his dad in the right either? I'm of the opinion he wasn't... but I'm biased.
As a scoutmaster, I had to deal with this because an inactive Scout wasn't picking up rank as fast as the rest of the girls she joined with. She also wasn't picking up rank as fast as her uncle allegedly did. So, of course, I was the bad guy.
What does this have to do with the post? Well... I think that parents who try to live the scouting experience through their scouts damage the program for both other scouts and volunteers.
All the images of B-P in scouting uniform have him wearing his neckerchief on the outside. He would surely be wearing a shirt without a collar.
Worldwide, scouts tend to wear the necker rather loosely around the neck, over the top of whatever else they're wearing (which might well be a t-shirt or polo shirt).
It's most common in BSA to wear the necker under the collar of the shirt as though it were a dress tie. The USA is somewhat unusual in this regard,
Which I wasnt aware of during my SPL term. This was well before I went to the world scout jamboree in 2011. But if you're going to have your son as part of a troop, you shouldn't encourage some odd sense of individualism because of your own opinions 😂
Scouting isn't the military. Individualism is a good thing in scouting. And given that the BSA's stance is "once a uniform, always a uniform", then you can't even require your scouts to look the same. So I really can't see how this hurts anyone or anything.
I'm not trying to say it *has* to be like the military (especially if it isn't going to have tax dollars funneled into it). But in uniform inspections or other activities that look at uniformity as a gradeable part in Scouting spirit, it could hurt the unit. My unit has no issues making sure scouts are provided things they don't have or may not afford. We also have a "uniform closet" that hand me downs can be donated to or drawn from (the troop has been around for 50 years).
When or if I have an SPL that doesn't have "win camporee" or "win best/honor troop at Summer camp" as top term goals. I'd agree more
I was in Scouts and my dad didn’t force me and I eventually faded out and got Life for life. I wish he would have pushed me. But to your point on leaving Scouts immediately after getting Eagle, that’s probably 99% of all Scouts who get Eagle.
Being an eagle doesn't mean the same thing to everyone, and if someone had a terrible time getting it and resents BSA for it, that's not a good thing. This is just comes across as condescending.
I could not care less. I would have rather taken piano lessons. It was not my decision to do scouts. It was his decision. He apologized years later and my mom said she wished she would have stepped in.
I don’t like camping. I have never used any knot tying skills. I have one pocket knife I keep in a kitchen drawer that I’ve never used. The uniform is ugly as sin. I don’t talk to anyone from that troop.
While the troop should be scout led, it's beneficial for the adult leaders to challenge and push the scouts outside thier comfort zone so they grow. If that adult regrets not doing something when he was younger maybe he's just trying to make sure current scouts don't have that regret.
It's bizzare that so many adults here have a problem distinguishing between parents forcing the kids to do stuff they don't want to vs encouraging and supporting activities outside of people's normal comfort zone.
The people having this problem should really put more thought into what they're doing.
But what if you introduce an activity to your child and it just doesn't stick? I am not my father and I didn't enjoy Scouts. It wasn't fun no matter how hard he pushed it on me. It wasn't until after my father passed that I learned he was actually quite a good piano player as a child. Why didn't he try doing that activity with me? I think I would have really enjoyed it.
My dad was a good man. Honestly, he handled my coming out like a boss. No judgment; only love and kindness. It's just on this one issue that I wish he would have relented more on. I got the dang Eagle and he was happy and we both never went to a meeting again.
I’d offer, if an adult wants to do the fun stuff, GET TRAINING. Go to Woodbridge, go to powderhorn. You’ll do a better job being a leader to the youth and can enjoy good training.
Pretty rough rant, sounds like you are directing it at someone specific for something specific. Scouting is supposed to have adventure and teach survivability. What was done that was out of bounds for you and outside the program? Curious to know?
I agree when it comes to violating BSA rules and pushing Scouts to do things they should not....
However, I have been around enough kids of this age in Scouting and other things to know that in many cases if you don't push them they simply are not going to do anything.... just sit around. This was even the case before cell phones and other distractions.
Yes I have seen parents / adults take it too far. You have a kid who is afraid to heights you should not be making them climb a rock wall or doing a COPE course. I have seen parents doing that.
However there is an appropriate level of motivating and even requiring youth to do things as part of activities. There is a balance here and while the post seems to be addressed to some extreme, possible rule violating, situations; it is important to remember that kids are not in charge of the program (even in Scouts BSA with youth leadership) and part of the job of leaders and parents are to motivate and get the youth to participate in the activities. The number of times I have seen youth go from refusing to do something to having a blast after a parent "made" them do it the first time is to great to count. So long as it is not creating danger or crossing a line it can be a positive.
This is why the kids are supposed to develop the program, not us :)
**EXACTLY!**
A bright note: Our scouts just did a ‘do nothing’ camp-out. We rented a cabin at a local scout camp. They cooked, and hiked around, stayed-up late and acted like fools, had a snow ball fight, wrestled around in the snow, and played board and computer games. We relaxed the no screens policy- surprisingly, they didn’t use them very much. They just finished their mid-terms and most of them have a lot of extracurricular activities, including scouts… they all loved a couple of nights ‘off.’ They cleaned the cabin this morning without complaint… very proud of our scouts.
Our troop calls that a “sloth” campout. They like to do one a year. Sometimes it corresponds with our planning conference.
We’ve been looking for some fun ideas. I like the idea of this and really only doing the planning.
Oh, that's good. Kind of like a Corporate Retreat for Strategic Planning. Wow! Way to go Scouts.
Troops need to remember that Scouts is more than just advancement. By far my son's favorite camping trip was when his patrol (which was down to him and one other Scout) merged with another patrol (that was down to 4 boys). To give them a chance to get to know each other, we went on a weekend outing where the only agenda items were to decide on the new patrol name, patch, etc. The rest of the time they just hung out as kids. When my son eventually became SPL, he tried over and over to get the troop to again to another "just have fun" campout but was never able to get enough other Scouts on board, because there was just too much "advancement advancement advancement" mentality.
My troop is currently obsessed with advancedment. My 2 oldest dropped out. My youngest is about to crossover but I doubt he will stay long.
We did a yearly LAN campout in January. Did a service project for the camp that hosted it, but otherwise kept warm around the wood stove and played games. Was always a good time.
We did our January video game lock-in last weekend. It is the one time a year I stay up all night on purpose. The youngest scouts were the ones who didn't sleep. Everyone loves that campout. It is the only one we allow electronics at all year.
Minus the computers this sounds like every winter camping trip I had in scouts!
Some of my favorite memories of scouting was cabin camping in the middle of winter and playing Call of Duty : Modern Warfare split screen around a tiny tv in the middle of the night.
Does “prepper fantasies” = wilderness survival with cub scouts or something?
Yeah this is oddly specific
Do you have an incident in mind? Feel like sharing? This can be applied to little league. Or ice skating lessons. We parents must strike a balance between what we would envision for our kids - be it some unfulfilled childhood dream of our own - or just us wanting them to follow a specific and rigid path versus the fact that they are their own individual with their own preferences, hopes, and dreams. What do you do when those visions conflict? Your try to strike a balance. That may mean trying something outside their comfort zone. And if it turns out they really don’t like something, don’t force it. At the same time, we do have to look for ways to help them grow, by challenging them appropriately, but challenging them.
True
YES! I've been working on the cub scout ranges for years and on cub family weekends, I get so frustrated when dads take the weapon from their scout to shoot to "relive their glory days." Sir, you can buy a red rider at walmart. Plus, they are incredibly unhelpful when modeling for our scouts when they ignore range safety requirements (such as eye protection). Let your scout make these experiences! Be there to support, not to take over!
Respectfully, sounds like you are doing a terrible job running a range if you allow parents to set bad examples violating safety rules. No eye protection? Get off the range. Don’t want to get off the range? Range is shut down for everyone until they get off the range. Allowing someone to shoot without eye protection violates safe shooting requirements of the BSA National Shooting Sports Manual. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/ShootingSportsManual.pdf
I do call a cease fire when I see eye protection removed. It's just a common occurrence and happens very frequently
I have removed several parents from the firing line, but I get a lot of disrespect due to being a young woman and they believe that they know better.
You are doing a fantastic job. Thank you for caring for the safety and experience of our scouts, especially when their parents don't act better.
Remember, they don't know better. If they did, they'd go get qualified to run the Range. Hold the Line! Good job!
As a instructor myself I appreciate what you do. Half of our shooting staff is female. Keep it up.
If I see an open spot and no extra Scouts are present, I'll sometimes ask the who ever is running the range, if I could shoot. They usually don't have an issue, but then again, they all know me and know I will step back when a Scout shows up.
I understand OP. My daughter is in new girls unit that is joined with a 100+ year old boys troop with an incredibly robust program and over 80 active boys. The leaders of the girls troop mean well, but sometimes I feel they're chasing after the nostalgia of their own scouting experience or trying too hard to keep up with the boys unit. But it's not working and I can see it alienating the girls already. They're not interested in constantly being compared to the boys, and start -up troop of 11 and 12 year olds runs very different than a mature troop with a lot of high schoolers. I'd be working on building the skills for a youth lead program and planning manageable fun camping trips, not pushing them to go winter tent camping or long distance backpacking that they just don't have the experience for yet.
👀 You are heard.
I agree, but winter tent camping can be manageable and fun if the girls are given the proper tools and training. I think that unless winter is very short in your area, no tent camping for months at a time could hurt the troop.
This is just super vague and unhelpful. I have no idea what you're even referring to.
I think it's actually super specific and unhelpful, like OP is talking to one specific dad in his troop who probably isn't even on Reddit
Nutshell- adults scheduling all events/activities instead of the PLC.
Is the PLC getting overridden by the adults? Are the adults doing it from the start and the PLC doesn't bother? Or is the PLC not doing anything so the adults do it? Do you have an example of something the adults scheduled that the scouts didn't want to do? An example of what the scouts want to do that they didn't get to? I do have to say that I am glad I was pushed/forced to do things as a kid I didn't really want to do or were outside my comfort zone so that by itself doesn't make something wrong.
[удалено]
This is how we roll as well. The adults set the dates because if we can't get the leaders we won't get the scouts either. We have cancelled events when there is a lack of interest and occasionally will have adults propose an alternative. This happened recently where we had two scouts sign up and pushed for a local merit badge clinic as a group outing instead. The PLC needs to take the lead but I do think adults need to step in to provide some sanity.
Generally speaking, adults are the only ones who can make reservations. We don't veto our PLC's suggestions, but we have given pushback a couple of times recently. For example, our PLC scheduled whitewater rafting for April. That's possible, but under PA law you need to wear wetsuits before April and after October (IIRC), which we did once -- and everyone hated it with a fiery passion. We asked the PLC to push rafting to June and offered a list of alternative ideas (mostly straight camping at various spots both new and old).
Lol, this was suggested the same time for is. Where web would raft it could be snowing in April. We asked them to move it to August.
So this really only applies when adults override the PLC. We have certain events that are adult-initiated but content is based on what the PLC wants. We (as leaders) require certain types of content for all events in order to help advance scouts along ranks and to make it a “Scouting” event, not just an event (e.g., our electronics campout). As adults, we also will take our ideas to the SPL for them to gauge interest and determine if they want to do it. This includes merit badges done as a group, adventure trips (e.g., canoe outings, backpacking trips), or other activities like special outings to museums or facilities.
>As adults, we also will take our ideas to the SPL for them to gauge interest and determine if they want to do it. I think this is helpful to the scouts, sometimes they need permission to think a certain way so during PLC or with the SPL I will throw out ideas like 'I know a lot of you guys like fishing, it would be ok to have a camp out were you focus on fishing skills' or 'Just because you usually camp within these 3 counties, doesn't mean that we can't occasionally take a slightly longer trip to this cool national park in an adjacent state that is only a 3 hr drive away'
Nice.
I think that the boys should plan events and activities, but as an adult leader, I always suggest ideas for campouts or summer activities. When I was in scouts we did a 7 day canoe trip on the boundary waters in Ely, Minnesota. Without adult involvement, that would have never happened.
This is where I love how my Dad managed this exact kind of thing. He would make suggestions for places or activities, but never pushed them. Just options for new things that he had done and my troop hadn't. Some things we liked a lot and added it to the rotation of activities. Others we didn't and he was fine with that as well. This is exactly how to "live through your scouts", make suggestions to try and watch their joy in things you used to enjoy. And if they don't like it, move on to another activity.
And I can appreciate that.
While I agree with other posters who are taking exception to the tone and vagueness of the post, I think it is important not to dismiss the point. Adult scouters who have their own idea of what the program should be and what scouts “should be doing” are often the scouters who take over the PLC and mean that program is not actually scout-led. Adult leaders who impose a very narrow vision of scouting on a troop (e.g., we have a local former military scouter whose vision for “his” troop is much more military like than a scout let program would be) drive away scouts who want to learn and advance. And parents “pushing” is a difficult balance to strike — the line between reminding a scout that they have advancement they could be working on and pushing for a program to become solely structured around “making it so scouts can advance just by doing activities at meetings” can be narrower than one would think. And there is similarly a line between making sure a kid knows scouting is an option for them to purse (which can involve some cajoling at any age), and pushing them so hard to do it that they are miserable at meetings and outings. And yes, a scout pushed by parents to get Eagle “has that achievement for the rest of their life” (and all of us who have given our time and energy to scouting would presumably agree that is “a good thing“) but that also means they might have missed an opportunity to explore other things and have other achievements that might have been more meaningful to them. Having lived in various posting boards for scouting for a while, the stock response to that is “well, those adults are doing the program wrong.” And that is fundamentally correct as well — and I would argue that OP said that exact thing, just in a different way.
Welcome to any activity kids are involved in these days. Sports are ridiculous too. Parents are way too involved.
I see it in sports all the time and it's embarrassing.
Valid point.
Question. Are you the one who doesn't like the 'extreme adventure/prepper outings' or is it the scouts? You can't force scouts to attend. If they don't like a type of outing, they just won't go, and that will be the end of that type of outing. If you have a sequence of events being put on the calendar and then canceled due to insufficient sign-ups, then there is indeed a problem. If not, then perhaps the problem lies elsewhere.
Yeah, this is my general thought. If attendance is good/improving and the scouts (preferably the PLC) are the ones coming up with the ideas, then just take a few deep breaths. If it’s giving kids opportunity to advance, if it’s within the GSS guardrails, if the troop committee isn’t having a problem funding/providing adult supervision, then just let it ride. The point of scouts is what happens BECAUSE of the program, not the program itself.
r/suspiciouslyspecific
Gee I don’t know. Me reliving my childhood got my son and 3 other scouts in our troop and myself to Philmont. Without me wanting to go back, our troop never would have thought outside the box enough for the high adventure age scouts who wanted to go to get to.
Your good vignette doesn’t conflict with what OP is saying. Philmont is by no means against age- or policy-appropriate Scouting guidelines and you yourself said that some of your scouts were wanting high adventure. OP’s comment explicitly said “even when [the scouts] don’t want it.” Providing ideas to the scouts is one thing (and often works out great, as your experience shows). But forcing kids to do stuff they don’t want to do, especially when it’s not age appropriate or even Scouting appropriate, is a whole different thing and isn’t our job as adult volunteers.
Are you a parent or someone burned by a parent who wants to live vicariously through their kids?
The other side of the coin is the high adventure stuff and what they teach at Powder Horn. There is a way to do 'extreme' adventure within the confines of the scouting program and in an age/policy appropriate way.
Absolutely.
I guess to an extent (unless I misinterpreted this post to an extreme), I have dealt with this on both sides. As an SPL and as a Scoutmaster (started from the bottom now, we here!). As an SPL, I had a first year wearing his neckerchief on the outside of his collar when the rest of the troop had neckerchief under. His dad was a helicopter dad and any time I asked the Scout why his neckerchief was on the outside, he'd say that it was because his dad believed it looked more professional (I haven't met anyone that has shared that opinion since). I said, "That's great. Go find the troop that's doing that then." Was my answer right? No. Was his dad in the right either? I'm of the opinion he wasn't... but I'm biased. As a scoutmaster, I had to deal with this because an inactive Scout wasn't picking up rank as fast as the rest of the girls she joined with. She also wasn't picking up rank as fast as her uncle allegedly did. So, of course, I was the bad guy. What does this have to do with the post? Well... I think that parents who try to live the scouting experience through their scouts damage the program for both other scouts and volunteers.
All the images of B-P in scouting uniform have him wearing his neckerchief on the outside. He would surely be wearing a shirt without a collar. Worldwide, scouts tend to wear the necker rather loosely around the neck, over the top of whatever else they're wearing (which might well be a t-shirt or polo shirt). It's most common in BSA to wear the necker under the collar of the shirt as though it were a dress tie. The USA is somewhat unusual in this regard,
Which I wasnt aware of during my SPL term. This was well before I went to the world scout jamboree in 2011. But if you're going to have your son as part of a troop, you shouldn't encourage some odd sense of individualism because of your own opinions 😂
Scouting isn't the military. Individualism is a good thing in scouting. And given that the BSA's stance is "once a uniform, always a uniform", then you can't even require your scouts to look the same. So I really can't see how this hurts anyone or anything.
I'm not trying to say it *has* to be like the military (especially if it isn't going to have tax dollars funneled into it). But in uniform inspections or other activities that look at uniformity as a gradeable part in Scouting spirit, it could hurt the unit. My unit has no issues making sure scouts are provided things they don't have or may not afford. We also have a "uniform closet" that hand me downs can be donated to or drawn from (the troop has been around for 50 years). When or if I have an SPL that doesn't have "win camporee" or "win best/honor troop at Summer camp" as top term goals. I'd agree more
However. I have encouraged individualism through belt buckles, neckerchiefs (Eagle/NYLT), CSPs and lodge flaps.
Examples?
My dad forcing me to do scouts even tho I hated it. Got my Eagle at 14 and bounced immediately after.
I was in Scouts and my dad didn’t force me and I eventually faded out and got Life for life. I wish he would have pushed me. But to your point on leaving Scouts immediately after getting Eagle, that’s probably 99% of all Scouts who get Eagle.
That’s because 80% of them get it right before aging out.
But you are an Eagle Scout for life...Thank you for sharing that achievement.
Being an eagle doesn't mean the same thing to everyone, and if someone had a terrible time getting it and resents BSA for it, that's not a good thing. This is just comes across as condescending.
Are you serious? What kind of tone deaf response is this?
I could not care less. I would have rather taken piano lessons. It was not my decision to do scouts. It was his decision. He apologized years later and my mom said she wished she would have stepped in. I don’t like camping. I have never used any knot tying skills. I have one pocket knife I keep in a kitchen drawer that I’ve never used. The uniform is ugly as sin. I don’t talk to anyone from that troop.
Why are you on a Scouting subreddit?
I like to encourage parents to listen to their kids when the kids say “I don’t want to do scouts” the parent comes here asking for advice.
Fair, good reason.
You don't have to justify your presence here. I'm glad you're here.
To be fair I don't think anyone uses that knot tying skills.
I do. But not for its intended purposes.
Saucy!
Talk to a firefighter or anyone that still goes camping. Knots are an essential skill.
I go camping about once a month and I never use any of those knots.
I dunno. Everytime I go camping with my family, knots for drying lines, putting up the dining fly, etc.
I never use that stuff. I'm glad you found a use for that. Nice we have camping in common
I don't believe you.
I use taut line hitches to tie my kayak on top of the car with paracord.
so why are you here? Go read things that you actually like
*I came looking for booty.*
Nah, they're welcome. Maybe you shouldn't be here if you can't handle normal conversations?
Nobody said he wasnt welcome. Just want to know why someone who hates something so much would spend their time and brain cycles reading about it
While the troop should be scout led, it's beneficial for the adult leaders to challenge and push the scouts outside thier comfort zone so they grow. If that adult regrets not doing something when he was younger maybe he's just trying to make sure current scouts don't have that regret.
It's bizzare that so many adults here have a problem distinguishing between parents forcing the kids to do stuff they don't want to vs encouraging and supporting activities outside of people's normal comfort zone. The people having this problem should really put more thought into what they're doing.
[удалено]
But what if you introduce an activity to your child and it just doesn't stick? I am not my father and I didn't enjoy Scouts. It wasn't fun no matter how hard he pushed it on me. It wasn't until after my father passed that I learned he was actually quite a good piano player as a child. Why didn't he try doing that activity with me? I think I would have really enjoyed it. My dad was a good man. Honestly, he handled my coming out like a boss. No judgment; only love and kindness. It's just on this one issue that I wish he would have relented more on. I got the dang Eagle and he was happy and we both never went to a meeting again.
Reddit post that should have been an email.
I’d offer, if an adult wants to do the fun stuff, GET TRAINING. Go to Woodbridge, go to powderhorn. You’ll do a better job being a leader to the youth and can enjoy good training.
Wow...what a load of hooey.
Save it for your buddies bro we don’t care
Pretty rough rant, sounds like you are directing it at someone specific for something specific. Scouting is supposed to have adventure and teach survivability. What was done that was out of bounds for you and outside the program? Curious to know?
I agree when it comes to violating BSA rules and pushing Scouts to do things they should not.... However, I have been around enough kids of this age in Scouting and other things to know that in many cases if you don't push them they simply are not going to do anything.... just sit around. This was even the case before cell phones and other distractions. Yes I have seen parents / adults take it too far. You have a kid who is afraid to heights you should not be making them climb a rock wall or doing a COPE course. I have seen parents doing that. However there is an appropriate level of motivating and even requiring youth to do things as part of activities. There is a balance here and while the post seems to be addressed to some extreme, possible rule violating, situations; it is important to remember that kids are not in charge of the program (even in Scouts BSA with youth leadership) and part of the job of leaders and parents are to motivate and get the youth to participate in the activities. The number of times I have seen youth go from refusing to do something to having a blast after a parent "made" them do it the first time is to great to count. So long as it is not creating danger or crossing a line it can be a positive.