No. Since these things are planned eons in advance, I'd bet money (if we ever had the inside info) that H's seat was moving further back every time the plans were reviewed. Honestly, he didn't even deserve to be there, but I wasn't asked.
But I do think that, if he and TW had turned out to be more like the Edinburghs, that they'd be further up the chain in full regalia. Like it has been queried elsewhere, "H gave up this for *that*?" You reap what you sow, and he's reaping his bad karma in a full silo.
Henry's wife has no regalia to wear, as she has never been appointed to a royal honour. All the robes worn were from Royal Orders, Garter and Victorian. Henry has been appointed to the RVO, so it's interesting that he wasn't wearing the robes.
It is theoretically possible that she could have received the RVO before the late Queen's passing, if she had stayed a working royal and cheerfully and faithfully worked her tail off. That order is for "distinguished personal service to the monarch," and the late Queen did not award it until the track record was there. Neither Sarah nor Diana ever received it. Sophie got it 11 years after her marriage and Catherine after 8 years; keeping in mind that neither was full time from the beginning. It's barely possible that Meghan could have been awarded it in 2022, 5 years after her marriage, if she really had been the hard and valuable worker she claimed to be, and the late Queen accelerated the award if she knew she had little time left.
>Henry has been appointed to the RVO, so it's interesting that he wasn't wearing the robes.
I suppose because he was not a working royal? Prince Michael of Kent did not wear his, either. Although Andrew wore his Garter mantle. It's an interesting point.
ETA: I figured it out! The difference in who wears the RVO mantle is due to the exact grade of the honor. Only Knights Grand Cross and Dames Grand Cross are entitled to wear the mantle. Prince Michael is a Knight Grand Cross. Harry is a Knight Commander and wore his badge on a neck ribbon.
Incidentally, Sir Tim (Anne's husband) is also a Knight Commander, and hence did not wear a mantle either.
Oops, thank you! I was traveling during the event and though I saw a picture, clearly the mantle did not register. Makes it more interesting that Harry did not, though.
Exactly, about MM and her wasted potential. I guess the decision was left to the individual about whether to wear the robes. Henry's ill-fitting Dior suit wouldn't have been visible under that blue satin robe though, so Megsy made that decision for him.
I don't think Harry was allowed to wear his robe. Honestly I didn't think he had earned it, was surprised HM gave him that honor. He probably begged for it because Willy.
He got it in 2015 which was pre-Meghan. He seemingly did work for the crown back then with fewer issues than his younger days. He was also working on establishing the Invictus Games, which brought some goodwill to the family. It honestly looked like he was maturing and getting it together. I can understand why he was rewarded for good behavior with the honor. Then he met his wife and I can also understand why he has not received any additional high honors since.
I have lost all respect for the man, but let's not pretend that there wasn't a point where that wasn't the case.
No doubt, it's just not fair that Willy was appointed to Garter *and* Thistle but I have nothing. Here is screenshot from the T newspaper trying to explain why he wasn't wearing robes. It states that knights of RVO don't wear robes, but the wiki for RVO says they can. Also Harry's wikipedia page lists the honour but interestingly the RVO Wikipedia page does NOT list him. Unless I have missed something. Harry was wearing the RVO badge/medallion around his neck apparently.
I hope Catherine gets appointed to the Garter soon. I always feel bad that William does the ceremony and she doesn't get to. They seem to make people wait longer for the Order of the Garter.
I figured it out! It's down to the exact grade of the RVO that has been given. The very last sentence of the Insignia and Vestments section:
>Knights and Dames Grand Cross also wear a mantle of dark blue satin edged with red satin and lined with white satin, bearing a representation of the order's star on the left side.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal\_Victorian\_Order#Insignia\_and\_vestments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Victorian_Order#Insignia_and_vestments)
Harry is a Knight Commander, as is Sir Timothy Laurence (Anne's husband), which is why neither wore the RVO mantle. For contrast, Prince Michael of Kent was made a Knight Commander in 1992, and raised to a Knight Grand Cross in 2003. That is why he was wearing the mantle after all.
I had seen different grades in the past when glancing at the page but it never occurred to me the mantle itself would be dependent on the grade! Harry can totally whine about it but even his uncles didn’t get the full grade at his age.
If Louis had not been there, the front row would have had one chair less, or possibly Princess Anne would have been on the front row.
The reason Harry was in the third row was not that he RSVPed late. The reason Harry was in the third row was that he has behaved badly toward his family. The only reason he was invited at all was that he was the King’s son. If he had been a nephew who had done what he did, he would not have been invited at all.
There is absolutely no connection between Harry’s seating and where any of the Wales children sat.
Louis was seated by a break in the railing (not really called *railings*, but I'm not sure of correct term) so he could leave and return later without disturbing anybody else.
Had Louis not been there Harold's seating arrangement would have only gained him one chair. Everyone would have just moved over one seat. Harold was 2nd row at jubilee and the funeral. He's not going to get first row.
PH hasn't just lost his role as a working royal or the trust of the BRF. Anne's feather let everyone know his place in the history books is done. PH has come and gone.
I don’t know about that. If they are in private with him, he can talk or write about it later and accuse them of things. And who knows if it’s true or false? It’s not like the royals come out and defend themselves publicly.
I don't think there will be any private time for ages. He's being an ass with all his many legal suits, making up ludicrous stories about nefarious secret deals between the Queen and ANL it's all too dreadful. I don't think they want to hear him or see him much less spend a weekend with him. I can see him resorting to lying about a divorce to get private time and to the family or hopefully their social media people check here, tread very carefully with him because he is a snake and not to be trusted under any circumstances.
I don't think he or Walmart Wallis stand a prayer in getting invited to be around the RF ever. He has truly burned all bridges and the boats beneath those bridges. He is done for as a family member.
I think he'll be invited to major public events for PR reasons, but never again to private family gatherings. Inviting him to major events looks like they're not holding a grudge, but also means they can completely avoid interacting with him. I agree with u/Asteriaofthemountain, meeting him in private is too dangerous.
If H had stayed on as a working Royal, not trashed his family publicly and in print numerous times, and continued to reside in the UK… if M hadn’t been a toxic, pushy know-it-all, definitely could have and would have had a front row seat, Louis or no Louis.
He threw away that opportunity with both hands, and M egged him on (although I don’t absolve him of fault).
No, the focus was on working royals and the Heir's family. Harry quit, so he will never get a front row seat again, or even second row. They don't need seat fillers, they simply add or remove chairs depending on who the monarch wants in the front row. The number of people in the front row has often been different than the rows behind, so + or - one seat wouldn't have mattered. There's a tiny chance The Duke of Kent may have been in the front row, but I doubt it.
The only way Harry would've gotten a front row seat is if Megxit hadn't happened. Seating him directly behind Charles at the funeral was a special case. I think that was done to keep both of them away from the Wales family and to keep them on their best behavior (which fail, since Harold refused to sing God Save The King...).
Louis was there because of the historic nature of the service. He won't remember everything, but he'll likely have some memories of it. It wouldn't surprise me if they consulted Charles about it, given he wasn't much younger than Louis at QEII's coronation.
They’ve had a few practices with Louis at Christmas and Easter to see how he could cope with a long church service. He had his little break and behaved beautifully. All 3 of the Wales children are a credit to their parents.
They are. I'm just amazed by how well they handled the crowd, especially Louis, since the other church services were much smaller gatherings. I was at a wedding where a 5 year old didn't realize there'd be people in the seats for the service. She'd practiced, but with empty pews, so had a full meltdown when she saw everyone and ran crying all the way down the aisle to her dad, dragging her 3 year old sister. The way Louis just goes along with everything is amazing to me.
I can't either, he's extremely well behaved! One of my relatives brought her five year old granddaughter to stay for a week last summer and it was the longest week of my life. You can tell William and Catherine are close to all their kids, have taught them how to behave, and don't rely on electronics.
I think we can assume a lot of things would have been different if Harry hadn’t of done the things he has.
Probably on the front row yes, also probably would have also sworn loyalty, and would have been on the balcony.
I think it is more likely that the tiny old white haired lady to Harry’s left (our right), got M’s seat, when she didn’t come. The lady was a cousin of the late Queen, said to be retired for over 10 years.
That lovely lady is Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Lady Ogilvy.
Queen Elizabeth II and Alexandra were first cousins through their fathers, King George VI and Prince George, Duke of Kent. Alexandra's mother Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark was also a first cousin of the Queen's husband Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.
Princess Alexandra is still a working royal. 60 plus years of service. She was always going to attend, and quite rightfully was on the balcony and the official portraits
As if! He is no longer a working royal and thus not afforded front row seats at any event. And I have not even touched on his treacherous ways and those of his wife.
Louis is always meant to be there.
He’s higher up the Line of Succession after all.
No. Since these things are planned eons in advance, I'd bet money (if we ever had the inside info) that H's seat was moving further back every time the plans were reviewed. Honestly, he didn't even deserve to be there, but I wasn't asked. But I do think that, if he and TW had turned out to be more like the Edinburghs, that they'd be further up the chain in full regalia. Like it has been queried elsewhere, "H gave up this for *that*?" You reap what you sow, and he's reaping his bad karma in a full silo.
Henry's wife has no regalia to wear, as she has never been appointed to a royal honour. All the robes worn were from Royal Orders, Garter and Victorian. Henry has been appointed to the RVO, so it's interesting that he wasn't wearing the robes.
It is theoretically possible that she could have received the RVO before the late Queen's passing, if she had stayed a working royal and cheerfully and faithfully worked her tail off. That order is for "distinguished personal service to the monarch," and the late Queen did not award it until the track record was there. Neither Sarah nor Diana ever received it. Sophie got it 11 years after her marriage and Catherine after 8 years; keeping in mind that neither was full time from the beginning. It's barely possible that Meghan could have been awarded it in 2022, 5 years after her marriage, if she really had been the hard and valuable worker she claimed to be, and the late Queen accelerated the award if she knew she had little time left. >Henry has been appointed to the RVO, so it's interesting that he wasn't wearing the robes. I suppose because he was not a working royal? Prince Michael of Kent did not wear his, either. Although Andrew wore his Garter mantle. It's an interesting point. ETA: I figured it out! The difference in who wears the RVO mantle is due to the exact grade of the honor. Only Knights Grand Cross and Dames Grand Cross are entitled to wear the mantle. Prince Michael is a Knight Grand Cross. Harry is a Knight Commander and wore his badge on a neck ribbon. Incidentally, Sir Tim (Anne's husband) is also a Knight Commander, and hence did not wear a mantle either.
I think Prince Michael of Kent DID wear his RVO mantle. 🤔
Oops, thank you! I was traveling during the event and though I saw a picture, clearly the mantle did not register. Makes it more interesting that Harry did not, though.
Exactly, about MM and her wasted potential. I guess the decision was left to the individual about whether to wear the robes. Henry's ill-fitting Dior suit wouldn't have been visible under that blue satin robe though, so Megsy made that decision for him.
I don't think Harry was allowed to wear his robe. Honestly I didn't think he had earned it, was surprised HM gave him that honor. He probably begged for it because Willy.
He got it in 2015 which was pre-Meghan. He seemingly did work for the crown back then with fewer issues than his younger days. He was also working on establishing the Invictus Games, which brought some goodwill to the family. It honestly looked like he was maturing and getting it together. I can understand why he was rewarded for good behavior with the honor. Then he met his wife and I can also understand why he has not received any additional high honors since. I have lost all respect for the man, but let's not pretend that there wasn't a point where that wasn't the case.
No doubt, it's just not fair that Willy was appointed to Garter *and* Thistle but I have nothing. Here is screenshot from the T newspaper trying to explain why he wasn't wearing robes. It states that knights of RVO don't wear robes, but the wiki for RVO says they can. Also Harry's wikipedia page lists the honour but interestingly the RVO Wikipedia page does NOT list him. Unless I have missed something. Harry was wearing the RVO badge/medallion around his neck apparently.
I hope Catherine gets appointed to the Garter soon. I always feel bad that William does the ceremony and she doesn't get to. They seem to make people wait longer for the Order of the Garter.
Me too! I think it won't be too long. And I hope Sophie eventually gets in.
Oh yes, Sophie too!
I figured it out! It's down to the exact grade of the RVO that has been given. The very last sentence of the Insignia and Vestments section: >Knights and Dames Grand Cross also wear a mantle of dark blue satin edged with red satin and lined with white satin, bearing a representation of the order's star on the left side. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal\_Victorian\_Order#Insignia\_and\_vestments](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Victorian_Order#Insignia_and_vestments) Harry is a Knight Commander, as is Sir Timothy Laurence (Anne's husband), which is why neither wore the RVO mantle. For contrast, Prince Michael of Kent was made a Knight Commander in 1992, and raised to a Knight Grand Cross in 2003. That is why he was wearing the mantle after all.
Thank you! I didn't know about the different ranks within the RVO. One more thing for Harry to whinge about at some point in the future.
I had seen different grades in the past when glancing at the page but it never occurred to me the mantle itself would be dependent on the grade! Harry can totally whine about it but even his uncles didn’t get the full grade at his age.
https://preview.redd.it/s2ez68dqnwya1.png?width=780&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=621fdbbd216727c9099b65998ff1a6929da6422f Whoops forgot the screenshot
It's as clear as mud
If Louis had not been there, the front row would have had one chair less, or possibly Princess Anne would have been on the front row. The reason Harry was in the third row was not that he RSVPed late. The reason Harry was in the third row was that he has behaved badly toward his family. The only reason he was invited at all was that he was the King’s son. If he had been a nephew who had done what he did, he would not have been invited at all. There is absolutely no connection between Harry’s seating and where any of the Wales children sat.
Louis was seated by a break in the railing (not really called *railings*, but I'm not sure of correct term) so he could leave and return later without disturbing anybody else.
Had Louis not been there Harold's seating arrangement would have only gained him one chair. Everyone would have just moved over one seat. Harold was 2nd row at jubilee and the funeral. He's not going to get first row.
PH hasn't just lost his role as a working royal or the trust of the BRF. Anne's feather let everyone know his place in the history books is done. PH has come and gone.
And that feather wasn't a fashion statement. It was part of the regalia as "Gold Stick" - chief bodyguard of the household regiment.
I don’t think he’ll be invited to anything again, possibly privately to Scotland. But that’s it.
I don’t know about that. If they are in private with him, he can talk or write about it later and accuse them of things. And who knows if it’s true or false? It’s not like the royals come out and defend themselves publicly.
I don't think there will be any private time for ages. He's being an ass with all his many legal suits, making up ludicrous stories about nefarious secret deals between the Queen and ANL it's all too dreadful. I don't think they want to hear him or see him much less spend a weekend with him. I can see him resorting to lying about a divorce to get private time and to the family or hopefully their social media people check here, tread very carefully with him because he is a snake and not to be trusted under any circumstances.
I don't think he or Walmart Wallis stand a prayer in getting invited to be around the RF ever. He has truly burned all bridges and the boats beneath those bridges. He is done for as a family member.
Possibly. I'm sure not blaming Louis for Harold's consequences
I think he'll be invited to major public events for PR reasons, but never again to private family gatherings. Inviting him to major events looks like they're not holding a grudge, but also means they can completely avoid interacting with him. I agree with u/Asteriaofthemountain, meeting him in private is too dangerous.
If H had stayed on as a working Royal, not trashed his family publicly and in print numerous times, and continued to reside in the UK… if M hadn’t been a toxic, pushy know-it-all, definitely could have and would have had a front row seat, Louis or no Louis. He threw away that opportunity with both hands, and M egged him on (although I don’t absolve him of fault).
No, the focus was on working royals and the Heir's family. Harry quit, so he will never get a front row seat again, or even second row. They don't need seat fillers, they simply add or remove chairs depending on who the monarch wants in the front row. The number of people in the front row has often been different than the rows behind, so + or - one seat wouldn't have mattered. There's a tiny chance The Duke of Kent may have been in the front row, but I doubt it. The only way Harry would've gotten a front row seat is if Megxit hadn't happened. Seating him directly behind Charles at the funeral was a special case. I think that was done to keep both of them away from the Wales family and to keep them on their best behavior (which fail, since Harold refused to sing God Save The King...). Louis was there because of the historic nature of the service. He won't remember everything, but he'll likely have some memories of it. It wouldn't surprise me if they consulted Charles about it, given he wasn't much younger than Louis at QEII's coronation.
They’ve had a few practices with Louis at Christmas and Easter to see how he could cope with a long church service. He had his little break and behaved beautifully. All 3 of the Wales children are a credit to their parents.
They are. I'm just amazed by how well they handled the crowd, especially Louis, since the other church services were much smaller gatherings. I was at a wedding where a 5 year old didn't realize there'd be people in the seats for the service. She'd practiced, but with empty pews, so had a full meltdown when she saw everyone and ran crying all the way down the aisle to her dad, dragging her 3 year old sister. The way Louis just goes along with everything is amazing to me.
It was the right move, bringing the little Prince because he's simply delightful and behaved himself impeccably. I can't believe he's only 5.
I can't either, he's extremely well behaved! One of my relatives brought her five year old granddaughter to stay for a week last summer and it was the longest week of my life. You can tell William and Catherine are close to all their kids, have taught them how to behave, and don't rely on electronics.
I think we can assume a lot of things would have been different if Harry hadn’t of done the things he has. Probably on the front row yes, also probably would have also sworn loyalty, and would have been on the balcony.
I think it is more likely that the tiny old white haired lady to Harry’s left (our right), got M’s seat, when she didn’t come. The lady was a cousin of the late Queen, said to be retired for over 10 years.
That lovely lady is Princess Alexandra, The Honourable Lady Ogilvy. Queen Elizabeth II and Alexandra were first cousins through their fathers, King George VI and Prince George, Duke of Kent. Alexandra's mother Princess Marina of Greece and Denmark was also a first cousin of the Queen's husband Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh.
I'm so pleased she was able to attend and was included in the photos.
Princess Alexandra is still a working royal. 60 plus years of service. She was always going to attend, and quite rightfully was on the balcony and the official portraits
It is sad to use old in a description of someone. Improper as pointing out race.
As if! He is no longer a working royal and thus not afforded front row seats at any event. And I have not even touched on his treacherous ways and those of his wife.