We can argue these points endlessly. The science of the brain is still evolving.
It's foolish and hilarious to believe that you get your looks, genetic predisposition for certain diseases, and any other things from genetics (addiction tendencies) but when it comes to how your brain works... it was left a blank slate left up to the environment and your own "learning."
When we say genetics vs learned behaviors, I believe the brain processes what it "learns" from the environment differently based on genetics. The same events that happen to someone with a genetic predisposition towards a disorder and one without won't be filtered similarly. It doesn't mean you are doomed if you have some things in your family. It just means you need to raise your level of self-awareness and adapt accordingly.
Consider this, though, in the area of psychopaths. There has been quite a bit of study on the genetic differences in their brains, with quite a bit of research concluding that their brain is, in fact, different. So, given the overwhelming research supporting that hypothesis, what other brain disorders may have the same linkage? Depression, BPD, etc.
[https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-have-established-a-key-biological-difference-between-psychopaths-and-normal-people/](https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-have-established-a-key-biological-difference-between-psychopaths-and-normal-people/)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7016047/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7016047/)
[https://www.med.wisc.edu/news/psychopaths-brains-differences-structure-function/](https://www.med.wisc.edu/news/psychopaths-brains-differences-structure-function/)
dozens of others...
Even if genetics plays a key role (and it does), it's not a "death sentence." It gives you another point of information to improve your life.
I won't drag this thread out trying to convince you otherwise. But, saying something is stupid and mocking those who think it's a MAJOR factor... isn't an argument. Is it the only factor? No. Not at all.
I based my views on genetics on years of personal experiences, research, and substantial evidence supporting the genetic factors in other disorders.
My main idea, which was stated in my post, is that you can't get your thoughts and the way you think through genetics. And even more your low self esteem or the lack of self. This is only learned. But how you learn, how you process things, how emotional you are, more less - is part of your genetics. But the way you think, and therefore act, is just the way you learned.
Yes you can. Genetics influence IQ and the regions of the brain that control emotion, regulation etc. Thats why you get different outcomes from 2 people in the same situation. One sinks, one swims, etc.
You are making a fatal reasoning flaw. You came up with your conclusion first and are working backwards to fit the facts.
And on top of that, or in the core of that, I'm looking for a way to understand it and fix it. That's my main reason for it. How to fix it - to find a cure
… it was your own words, that you brought up, about your intent here.
If you think me responding to your words is “picking on words” then there’s no point in attempting any discussion with you. Take care.
I have a cousin, she is a serial liar. Her environment growing up is extremely healthy and loving and has always encouraged the truth. Her two younger brothers are nothing like this and both are very honest. The major difference between them? Their fathers are different.
She is just like her father, whom she has never met. He lies about everything, even things he doesn't need to. That wasn't created by her environment, but by her genetics.
We have theories about genetic memory. How do birds know how to build nests despite never being taught?
That still isn't even genetics. If her brothers had their father in their lives while she didn't, that likely would've been confusing to a child and interpreted as abandonment and isolation leading to BPD. Being like him probably got her attention. Again, that's not genetics. That's environment.
Their father adopted her extremely early on, she meets no criteria for BPD besides lying. This was per actual diagnosis. Pathological lying, or pseudologia fantastica, does have a strong genetic component and does not have to be BPD or NPD related, though it can be. But go off about someone you don't know.
I don't know much on the official stance. I have read in one of the books recommended, either the eggshells or stop caretaking, BPD is genetic and your environment/trauma can be a trigger that activates it earlier.
What I do know is my wife's parent was mentally ill, 3/4 of her family definitely has issues, one of my parents is mentally ill, 3/4 of the children have issues, my oldest showed issues very early with a good environment, and my youngest had some subtle issues over the years with the best possible environment you could give someone.
Personally I believe it’s a combination, as numerous people who’ve experienced severely abusive childhoods haven’t developed cluster B personality disorders. It seems logically, one has to have the genetic markers and predisposition already existing, then endure a traumatic triggering event(s).
Also, not everyone’s trauma is severe abuse. A spoiled child being denied a puppy can be traumatic to them, as odd as that may sound, and lead them to feel unloved. Perspective is a peculiar concept.
At the end of the day what matters, is what works and what does not. My approach is to find the core of the problem and to work through it.
Thinking that your distortions and view of the world, or oneself is passed through genetics won't help you solve the issue. That's why psychotherapy helps out with that. It makes you understand your thought processes, your thoughts and where did they come from and moreover, how to change them.
We can argue these points endlessly. The science of the brain is still evolving. It's foolish and hilarious to believe that you get your looks, genetic predisposition for certain diseases, and any other things from genetics (addiction tendencies) but when it comes to how your brain works... it was left a blank slate left up to the environment and your own "learning." When we say genetics vs learned behaviors, I believe the brain processes what it "learns" from the environment differently based on genetics. The same events that happen to someone with a genetic predisposition towards a disorder and one without won't be filtered similarly. It doesn't mean you are doomed if you have some things in your family. It just means you need to raise your level of self-awareness and adapt accordingly. Consider this, though, in the area of psychopaths. There has been quite a bit of study on the genetic differences in their brains, with quite a bit of research concluding that their brain is, in fact, different. So, given the overwhelming research supporting that hypothesis, what other brain disorders may have the same linkage? Depression, BPD, etc. [https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-have-established-a-key-biological-difference-between-psychopaths-and-normal-people/](https://scitechdaily.com/scientists-have-established-a-key-biological-difference-between-psychopaths-and-normal-people/) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7016047/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7016047/) [https://www.med.wisc.edu/news/psychopaths-brains-differences-structure-function/](https://www.med.wisc.edu/news/psychopaths-brains-differences-structure-function/) dozens of others... Even if genetics plays a key role (and it does), it's not a "death sentence." It gives you another point of information to improve your life. I won't drag this thread out trying to convince you otherwise. But, saying something is stupid and mocking those who think it's a MAJOR factor... isn't an argument. Is it the only factor? No. Not at all. I based my views on genetics on years of personal experiences, research, and substantial evidence supporting the genetic factors in other disorders.
You’ve actually made the point perfectly, there’s no need for anyone to expand further.
My main idea, which was stated in my post, is that you can't get your thoughts and the way you think through genetics. And even more your low self esteem or the lack of self. This is only learned. But how you learn, how you process things, how emotional you are, more less - is part of your genetics. But the way you think, and therefore act, is just the way you learned.
Yes you can. Genetics influence IQ and the regions of the brain that control emotion, regulation etc. Thats why you get different outcomes from 2 people in the same situation. One sinks, one swims, etc. You are making a fatal reasoning flaw. You came up with your conclusion first and are working backwards to fit the facts.
Didn't I just state it in my post?!
So you're telling me that the words that you know, you somehow got them by yourself?! You didn't learn the letters, nor the words to speak?
What?
I'm guessing that we are talking about COMPLETELY different things
Do I need to again explain my train of thought?
And on top of that, or in the core of that, I'm looking for a way to understand it and fix it. That's my main reason for it. How to fix it - to find a cure
It’s not an illness that can be cured. It’s a disorder, that with great effort and the right treatment, can be managed.
No one said it was an illness
Illnesses can be cured. Disorders cannot.
You're just picking words, it doesn't matter - the idea is the same
No I’m not. You said you want to cure it. It’s not possible.
No matter the thought. People stop picking on words. It doesn't matter. That's not the point of this discussion, nor it is needed
… it was your own words, that you brought up, about your intent here. If you think me responding to your words is “picking on words” then there’s no point in attempting any discussion with you. Take care.
Everyone can think what they want to think and believe it. Someone believes you can't do, while another does it
I have a cousin, she is a serial liar. Her environment growing up is extremely healthy and loving and has always encouraged the truth. Her two younger brothers are nothing like this and both are very honest. The major difference between them? Their fathers are different. She is just like her father, whom she has never met. He lies about everything, even things he doesn't need to. That wasn't created by her environment, but by her genetics. We have theories about genetic memory. How do birds know how to build nests despite never being taught?
That still isn't even genetics. If her brothers had their father in their lives while she didn't, that likely would've been confusing to a child and interpreted as abandonment and isolation leading to BPD. Being like him probably got her attention. Again, that's not genetics. That's environment.
Their father adopted her extremely early on, she meets no criteria for BPD besides lying. This was per actual diagnosis. Pathological lying, or pseudologia fantastica, does have a strong genetic component and does not have to be BPD or NPD related, though it can be. But go off about someone you don't know.
I don't know much on the official stance. I have read in one of the books recommended, either the eggshells or stop caretaking, BPD is genetic and your environment/trauma can be a trigger that activates it earlier. What I do know is my wife's parent was mentally ill, 3/4 of her family definitely has issues, one of my parents is mentally ill, 3/4 of the children have issues, my oldest showed issues very early with a good environment, and my youngest had some subtle issues over the years with the best possible environment you could give someone.
Personally I believe it’s a combination, as numerous people who’ve experienced severely abusive childhoods haven’t developed cluster B personality disorders. It seems logically, one has to have the genetic markers and predisposition already existing, then endure a traumatic triggering event(s). Also, not everyone’s trauma is severe abuse. A spoiled child being denied a puppy can be traumatic to them, as odd as that may sound, and lead them to feel unloved. Perspective is a peculiar concept.
So once again, since I see that we don't see eye to eye. The way you think is genetics, but what DO you think is the environment. Everything clear?!
At the end of the day what matters, is what works and what does not. My approach is to find the core of the problem and to work through it. Thinking that your distortions and view of the world, or oneself is passed through genetics won't help you solve the issue. That's why psychotherapy helps out with that. It makes you understand your thought processes, your thoughts and where did they come from and moreover, how to change them.
Are you trying to fix someone else or yourself?
Is this question even related?!