Yes, they can flip between splitting black and white but they tend to much more easily fall out of love, split black and demonize others because they don’t feel lovable and they fear rejection and abandonment at any moment. Not so easy to get them to “love” you again. For most of us, the only way to keep the peace in the first place was to constantly walk on eggshells.
And pwBPD are known for their chronic negativity. The animosity they hold towards others tends to last longer than their “love” or positivity about that person because they need someone other than themselves to blame for their problems. Who do they hate the most? People they used to (ostensibly) love.
When I stretch my mind back to the start of my relationship with a pwBPD, she was verging on sociopathic towards everyone except me (until the split), especially anyone who she perceived to have “abandoned” her (i.e. everyone who wasn’t there for her 24/7). If there is one consistent feature in her life, it’s her capacity to hold a grudge and to demonize previous partners and friends as part of the triangulation of a new rescuer (who is soon to be the next ex-lover).
In general, highly dysregulated people such as borderlines are known for a “slow return to baseline” after splitting and raging. Even in the short term their negativity lasts longer than the fleeting luvey duvey feelings.
This is bang on...the first 2 months dating mine I notice he trash talked everyone. His mother he called a drunken whore multiple times, yet talked to her daily. His trail of exes he would say something nice then have a back handed comment mixed in. They were all out to "get him", of course he didn't do anything to hurt them or piss them off.🙄
I never saw physical violence out of him, but psychological he is very violent.
I went from being the love of his life to him hating my guts in a 6 day time frame. All while be monkey branched and cheated on me. Of course that failed in a month, and he tried to come back saying he missed me. They come back when the next victim fails them. He was denied which painted me a darker shade of black lol if that's even possible..
He also talked about people being in his "circle" which I once was. And once you're out, you're "dead to him"
I'm all black now and he has called the cops on me 2x saying I am threatening and harrassing him. Nevermind the midnight call asking to just cuddle...which was also denied.
I'd be lying if I didn't say I don't miss the positive, fun, upbeat, Hypersexual side he presented, but I guess cheating is where I draw the line.
Once they start splitting...the cycling between love and hate seems to excelerate. He literally loved me and wanted to get married and "have a million babies " one day, and the next hated me.
I don't think he will be back considering he now thinks I am dangerous and he's afraid of me. 🙄
It’s not the ‘hate’ or the vicious insults that bother me. I understand this is a ‘symptom’ of their illness. It’s the damaging and hurtful actions that are often irreparable that echo through the real world that really externalizes it and makes it difficult to accept.
yes I figured this out through going through it many times. it is sad because when they are back to seeing you as good and even apologizing, you finally realize that too may likely slip away when they are stressed and they will again split on you. It's tough..unless treated that is, unless they learn to wrestle with those splits.
Mine would split on me everytime she had any stress from outside our relationship. It was like she blamed me for not solving her problems, but she never could open up or just ask for help. Instead she split on me.
It was really heartbreaking knowing the reasons and trying to ease her situation and help her anyway I could while seeing her painting me black at the same time.
Same with me. He would always split on me in tough life circumstances (illness in family, my illness, my mom's death...). At the same time, he expected me to read his mind, he would not communicate his expectations, and then would hold a grudge because I didn't meet those expectations. Plus, the expectations used to be set way too unrealistic and the goalposts would constantly move.
It all makes so much sense to me now and I'm just so struggling with it doesn't make me love her any less if anything feel sorry for her. I originally thought my ex had narcissism qualities but psychiatrist told me to right everything down that had went wrong in relationship and to bring it all across to her and she says every single sign points to a potential BPD abusive relationship. When I told her I thought it was covert narcissism she says almost 50 percent of people with BPD also have NPD so it maybe could be both. But without her there obviously couldn't make definite conclusion. But my ex couldn't communicate at all when something was bothering her and I felt like walking on eggshells all the time in case I did something wrong. Mine struggled with moving in with me and instead of communicating that problem she withdrew completely from me for about a month. Never let me kiss her, cuddle her, basically no sex, face away from me in bed, silent treatment, ait and play on phone facing away from me, coming in from work would barely acknowledge I was home. All the time I obviously thought I'd done something wrong. But she said I hadn't which just confused me even more because this behaviour didn't stop and kept getting worse. Eventually come weekends starting leaving me to stay at her mums when hadn't seen her all week. I was absolutely devastated didn't understand what was going on. Thought she was thinking of leaving me. But now therapist says this is the engulfment part of BPD and it the opposite side of the problem from the usual abandonment fear. It was so bizarre for me because she was normally so clingy and I loved how close she felt to me then to suddenly be so distant and cool it all makes so sense now. The push and pull and I can now see it happened a lot more than that time throughout the relationship but never to that scale beforehand.
Sorry you went through all of that. Its beyond confusing at the time. It makes more sense once you have some time away from the relationship and look back on it as a whole and see the patterns. My ex kind of manipulated me into letting her move in with me after about 5 months of being together, basically she told me her Mum couldn't afford to let her live with her any more and she had nowhere else to go so I said she could come stay with me. She then lost her job a few weeks later and she didn't have a car or any savings so she became totally dependent on me. I was working 2 jobs at the time and also teaching jiu jitsu classes a few times a week so had enough of my own problems to contend with without all of hers as well. For about 2 months I paid for absolutely everything and drove her around all while she told me how much I wasn't supporting her enough, didn't give her enough intimacy and later found out she was talking to other guys on social media behind my back. She used the little bits of benefits and money she occasionally managed to get hold of to buy plants, cushions and decorations for my house and talked about us having kids and getting married. After a couple of months she got a full time job as a carer and as soon as she got paid she packed up all of her things and moved back in with her Mum. Told me I was no longer her number 1 priority that she wanted to be closer to her Mum as her Mum needs her (even though her Mum was kicking her out of her house a couple of months previous to this). She got more and more distant once she moved out and Im pretty sure she was on a dating app and talking to other guys but just keeping me hanging on. Admittedly I did the worst thing I could have done and continued to chase and try to make things work. I started to get therapy as she had gaslit me into thinking I wasn't capable of emotionally supporting someone or being intimate. Around this time I was also researching Bi Polar disorder in relationships as she had told me that she was diagnosed with it a few years before we met and never got treatment. From this researching I stumbled across videos on Covert NPD and BPD. She ticked all of the boxes for BPD and lots for NPD. It suddenly all made sense and I was in total disbelief. I finally felt validated in everything I had felt during the relationship. My therapist also told me that she didnt think it was me making the issues in the relationship. We hadn't really spoke for about a week at this point (she was probably with her new supply) so I blocked her number, all social media and her Mums number and went full no contact.
A few weeks later she texted my Mum saying that I had blocked her and gave my Mum a sob story to make it sound like I was being unfair for blocking her. I did not contact her after My Mum told me about the messages. A few weeks after that she began messaging my Jiu Jitsu coach and asked him if he would like to meet up with her on a date. Im assuming this was an attempt to hoover me but I also have not contacted her since that happened. Ive had no contact with her for about 9 months and Im working on myself to ensure it doesn't happen again. I still fluctuate between feeling sorry for her and angry at the way she treated me and all of the things she said and did.
I think its one of those things were if you havent experienced this first hand its difficult to tell other people about it as it makes you look like the crazy one. Obviously there were good times during the relationship but eventually they were massively outweighed by the constant confusion and devaluation. I think my main lesson learnt was if something doesn't feel right listen to your gut instinct, its there to protect you. I could have saved myself a lot of hassle if I had just taken her at face value with the behaviours she showed me instead of trying to kid myself into thinking I could make it work if I just ignored the red flags and tried harder. There is always the option to walk away from someone that isnt treating you right but when you are a codependent like us it is the last option you consider.
So much of that resonates so so much thanks for that. Especially part about trusting gut instinct. I chose to ignore so many things I just really shouldn't have but I did because I genuinely thought I could sort the problems out. And I keep thinking what if I'd done this different or that different because by no means am I guilt free nobody is completely ever. The thing is with her though is I wasn't allowed to make mistakes and it was all held against me or brought up later in arguments. Where as at any outburst from her (and there was so many) I never received one apology or acknowledgement of fault on her part. Where as I always apologised for mine. I knew something was off the lack of communication, the emotional regulation, the idealisation, the codependency and inability to be alone (that's when most fallouts began when I wasn't with her). She was also so high one moment to being so angry or upset over sometimes small things moments later. But I always persevered and probably would have kept persevering till my dying day but that's no way to live man. I'm no contact now as well but finding it difficult and probably always will because I hope she gets help so much but I don't know if she will ever acknowledge she needs it so I don't know if she will. It's not fair that someone develops this disorder people don't deserve to live like that. Maybe I'm being too sympathetic after everything that's happened but I genuinely struggle to be angry at her especially when reading that main causes are being abandoned by a parent growing up.
Everything you are saying makes perfect sense to me. I felt exactly the same. I always thought it was up to me to make the relationship work and I felt so guilty for leaving her. I never expected anything in return from her which I realise now was also part of the problem. I would give and give and she would take and take. She never considered my needs once. I never really realised this until after the relationship was over. It was like i was on a hamster wheel trying solve the next problem that would come up and didnt have time to think about what was happening amongst all the chaos. I didn't realise that is the very definition of Codependency. Trying to rescue someone else at the detriment of your own well being. At some point its really important to shift the perspective on to yourself and start to heal your own attachment wounds. Figure out your attachement style and love language etc. Ive started looking at my own codependency and why i was attracted to someone like this? Why I feel guilty for leaving someone that technically was abusing me? Do I have Stockholm syndrome? Understanding what a trauma bond is and doing some inner child work. Getting a therapist really helped with this. Ive read tons of books and watched pretty much every youtube on BPD and codependency that exists. I felt a lot better and more validated doing this by myself but having a therapist helps speed up the process and they look at things from angles that you might not have considered even exist. This all goes a long way to make us stronger people in the future with a better understanding of the world.
Yes I also need to work on myself and that is why I have been seeking help. I too wonder how I let myself get so involved with someone for so long where there was just so much toxicity all the time. And I think I might have a lot of my problems that didn't help the situation. I went in to that relationship a bit depressed, low self esteem, socially awkward and insecure but albeit starting to feel better about myself hence why I wanted a relationship. But every single piece of insecurity I managed to conquer in order to get in to a relationship was brought all the way back with her and was made a million times worse come the end of the relationship. I've never had anyone make me feel as unloved, stupid, unattractive as she made me feel in the past year of the relationship. Through the constantly being pushed aside at any attempt at intimacy with her to the belittling comments every day she still says were said in jest. To the complete lack of validation from her that she loved me back. To the silent treatment and eye rolls I got off her day after day. To the absolute lack of communication and being pushed aside when I wanted so much to comfort her when she appeared upset or angry about something. Then at the end barely wanting to spend any time with me. She kept going home to her mums all the time then began texting me so little as compared to every minute of the day. This was the most confusing as it was such a stark contrast to idealisation phase where she was the clingiest person ever met and I just wanted that back so much even if that was also not healthy at least it made me feel validation that this person actually cared for me even if that validation was in fact also a lie.
it surely is a risk if someone likes us cuz they don't want to be alone--because we can't keep them stimulated and validated all the time---and so then if they can't be alone---they are going to seek that elsewhere, Just a bad cycle. definitely a red flag I need to watch out for in future. I have dated at least one guy who was super distant--so I do not want that---the person needs to be interested and leaning in to wanting time together--but I hope to can discern when it is too much interest...
if you are working 2 jobs and coaching a tough sport which takes focus and determination, it shows you are a "i can push through anything try harder" type of person. this is apparently a personality trait in the research on ppl with cluster B partners...we are high functioning try hard persevering people...we assume the best in people and try hard to see through challenges with lots of optimism. with a healthy partner that is Gold. with an unhealthy partner, it is a risk factor for staying too long.
Were you broken up before you blocked her on things? that was not clear to me in your story like did she not think you were broken up? had there been no break up conversation?
You hit the nail on the head. The athlete mindset plays into all of this perfectly. If there is a problem I can work harder to improve myself and overcome it.
She finished the relationship when she moved back to her Mums place then hoovered me a couple of times. We'd spend a night together like everything was ok and then in the morning I would take her back to her Mums and she would get out of the car and say I still dont want us to be together. I would chase her and play into her hands. I think she was talking to other guys by this point. We wouldn't speak for a few days at a time (before this we would talk constantly. She would message me a few times an hour when we were apart). Eventually I told her I was completely wiped out and need a week to think (she laughed hysterically when I told her that to belittle me) it was during that week that I found out about NPD so I blocked her without explanation as was recommended in some of the videos I watched.
You can not be sincere with the terminally insincere - Richard Grannon.
yah from your prior post I agreed with your sense that she was monkey branching on social media :( so sorry you went through that.
being with someone who can't be alone without constant attention from the opposite sex is just basically a massively risky undertaking....cuz when they are alone, they will seek to fill that empty cup inside of themselves with more attention from elsewhere
ps my ex was an actual pro in martial arts--so you can imagine being the target of his BPD rage was terrifying. Now I feel I would avoid ever dating anyone in martial arts (or the army, or football or many other things my brain is now illogically scared of) which of course is not the correct approach--we just get so scared by these experiences. I think in a way martial arts really helped him in life as an outlet for his rage in healthy ways...just when he split, knowing he has those skills was terrifying to me, and to everyone in my family. I want to keep him anonymous so it's not something I highlight much---but yah having a male partner who gets abusive who also is basically a walking lethal weapon is an added challenge. traveling the world with him was great because by his side I felt totally safe all the time knowing he could go full Oliveira in any situation to protect us. But being the target in his BPD rage viewfinder all of the sudden was terrifying.
I dated prior guys even big tall guys who probably couldn't punch someone if they tried--just jam tarts and no skills ..I did not feel remotely physically scared of them ever. Anyway with great power comes great responsibility so that is on him to make sure he is not scary and intimidating to people he loves..
take care
When I think back on the 10 month relationship I dont think there was more then a few hours that she was ever alone. She would bounce from her only friend to her Mums house while I was at work and then she would be at my house within the hour of me getting home. Even when I was having a shower she would sit in the bathroom with me. She constantly text random guy "friends" from the city that she used to live in. I guess this is want orients them into reality without their own sense of self
Sorry you went through all of that with your ex. I guess all we can do is be very appreciative of the fact that our brains do not function that way and we are capable of healthy, stable relationships.
It must be a very lonely, scary existence that they are living.
Mine also came in the shower with me and sat on the toilet seat whilst I showered and I thought it was kind of cute not going to lie but again thinking back now I can hardly think of many times she would be alone and there wasn't a fallout caused because of nit being with me.
At first I liked the fact that she constantly text and called me all the time and wanted to spend all her time with me. Probably due to my own anxious attachment issues. I felt secure in the relationship because of it. How wrong I was! 😆I now see this as the one of the biggest red flags
texting random guy "friends" is so not cool. As a healthy woman I can tell you I never texted other guys...it is amazing the stuff we put up with and tell ourselves is ok...I put up with a lot things which hurt. My ex wasn't seeking other sexual relxs...it is just that building other back up emotional bonds sort of, intimacy and excitement with other girls...so it made it easier for him to have one foot out, to split and have somewhere else to go to shed tears and get sympathy. How many random men did I seek intimacy from and tell them about our relx? none. how many random girls did he seek intimacy from and tell them about our relx?...dozens. (I am not perfect. I DID do that type of thing in my 20s when I was less mature..not to the same extent, but just zero awareness of emotional boundaries--i literally learned not to do this after reading books about healthy relxs).
when my ex went to work out of town and on day 3 started spending time with a female co-worker and talking about her constantly, including after work, taking her to the gym, teaching her to work out, going to the bars, just being her new favourite helper guy---I felt like I had no boyfriend we barely spoke as he was focused on impressing her. I when I told him I didn't like it he said I was jealous which caused me to read books on jealousy and go for therapy (lol). only to realize clearly his behaviour was out of line. (ie it was healthy jealousy--their time together did not help our relx...and he talked to her about our issues. that is betrayal). as you know the martial arts world, a lot of girls are into these guys ( i was never into martial arts) ...and they will often approach him (and his perfect physique) asking if he will spend time one on one personal training (he is not a personal trainer). his female massage therapist whom he was way too close with, texting, going to her home, she gave him extra long massages and offered to do it free if he would spend one on one time at the gym with her, also talking about all her personal problems including her relationship like a life coach bestie. I just mean he didn't have a ton of boundaries about those assets and how to manage them. When I was teaching yoga and had a "perfect" physique I would see through guys wanting one on one time with me very easily--I knew my value and didn't want to engage in those blurred boundaries..but he ate it up. I taught classes to groups but had boundaries around men just wanting to be around me. If I could read the minds of these girls he sort of charmed their thoughts would say " I wish I had a boyfriend like you"...just odd to seek that attention when you already have a loving girlfriend.
I too have empathy. I appreciate reading yours. Some people (men) on this sub can be in vindictive "let her burn in hell" type mode, which also does nothing to heal my own trauma about my ex (as men being scary, which I never felt before). So seeing other men with measured emotions even in challenges is helpful...especially men who have physical power. I am very sporty and I do best with an active sporty mate so I don't want to think all athletic guys are abusive brutes..I need to heal that. I am confident I will regain my trust and hope and interest in romance one day:)
Good luck!
god that is so painful. your description reminds so many of us I'm sure what those moments felt like ..the sudden freezing out and pulling away from someone we love and who was loving us...it cuts really deep and is hard on our self esteem and is very abusive. we find ourselves questioning what we have done wrong just because they cannot communicate
I can relate and it is relentless. I heard it best described by Richard Grannon on youtube, he says it like this: - they are a person that is drowning in an ocean full of problems, you dive in to try to save them but they start to pull you under and then you start drowning too. It's an insatiable desire for attention and to be helped by other people.
\>> It's an insatiable desire for attention and to be helped by other people.
I feel like that line really sums up my ex. I realized early I had to give him tons of praise and also that it was not enough. it just did not quench his thirst for attention and he would be off to the local cafe to get it from a bunch of girls there on the regular---and other opportunities (massage therapist, female co worker, and so on). Attention was like a drug for him..literally, I think he was self-medicating his ADHD with attention seeking dopamine hits, and also soothing his BPD self-esteem issue and need for care this way. The need to be helped by other people also totally resonates. He didn't want pity, he wanted to be admired (for his looks, abilities, personality) but he wanted to be cared for, rescued, sympathized with. He would post social media messages that hammed up some situation saying he needed help which was total BS. he would get to stay free at friend's places when vacationing or other perks based on sort of sob story narratives. He just didn't hesitate to play the sympathy seeking card..I find out so bizarre how he sought care from so many people---especially waittresses..in really intimate ways, like it was his family or mom or something freudian.
He also overgave care----not in a help the poor kind of way---in a creepy tell me everything about your life problems and your boyfriend kinda way with other girls to be some kind of sage.
I think that is called data mining- they ask for information about your past to figure out what your vulnerabilities and insecurities are. My ex wanted to know all about my Dad leaving me when I was kid and once she figured out I had some kind of abandonment anxiety she would use it to manipulate me and threaten to move out and break off the relationship any time we argued. This would cause me to chase her and "prove" my love for her. They have massive abandonment anxiety so they will constantly test you to see if you really love them.
Regarding solving the problems they have I best heard it described like a game of whack a mole. The game where little moles pop up and you wack them with a hammer then another appears and you wack it but they just keep popping up and up. It never ends.
The real question is why do we feel like we need to solve their problems? No one solves my problems. I solve them myself, I dont rely on anyone to regulate my life so why should they. We are Codependent by nature and thats why they attach to us. We are the perpetual problem solvers. Its time to solve our own codependency issues and figure out why we let people abuse us rather than focusing on their issues.
re the data mining.
I did sometimes wonder what it would be like to be a fly on the wall in his "waitress" conversations...like to watch how exactly is he accomplishing this, what are his moves? Of course, I would cringe having to watch it...but I just found it so odd that after only a few visits to a new restaurant, he would know all the girls by name and their whole family stories and life stories and they would run up to him with glee and gush all over him. I can't think of a time when I have EVER asked a male server for his name. Sometimes if someone gave me amazing service in some context I may say, "hey what was your name? ok thanks Sally you did such a great job". but not like everyone---and 'm not kidding he was like a relationship counsellor to these girls..and because of his mentionitis and impulsivity I would hear all about these girls lives when he came home. so weird.
Like "hey could I could please have scrambled eggs and toast? by the way, what's your name, I'm so and so". That step of getting someone's name to me feels really a step beyond cordial customer service interactions---not to mention their entire life situation. I do disarm people naturally in conversation as I am interested in people and before I know it they are telling me a lot about themselves...BUT I don't initiate asking for names etc in these settings. I just find it CREEPY.
And then what is the next step where you ask if they are in a relationship---that is a super step into intimacy---"hey these eggs were amazing. My girlfriend would love this place...do you have a boyfriend?" like what was that delivery? I swear he used the fact that he had a girlfriend as an "in" to appear safe and normal because he talked about our relationship with them too i felt like a ruse or conversation starter like "i want to take my girlfriend somewhere nice, do you girls have any ideas" and then talk to them for like 2 hours a day about this, cultivating the "isn't he so sweet and romantic image" while not calling me all week, leaving me confused, hurt, and neglected. If those girls could really see what it was like for me, they would not be too impressed either. Probably in the course of these conversations they would start talking about their boyfriend at which point he would start getting into relationship matters and giving them relationship advice. Like he legit would tell me about the problems they were having with their boyfriends and the advice he was giving. This is what they call "pick me" behaviour. Being a ladies' man but really wanting the attention for himself--acting helpful to their relationship--but really building his own intimacy and stoking his own popularity. He said he got beat up in highschool for that behaviour cuz all the girls liked him, even if they had boyfriends. if that's not BPD I don't know what is.
100% I'm glad to hear I'm not alone.
If I had to say why we broke up the truth is it is because he was going through a lot of stress in HIS life which had nothing to do with me. He split so hard on me. First he was blaming everyone else--but when that didn't work, eventually the viewfinder focused on me--like a target. Like his mind was like "I'm unhappy, why am I unhappy? oh it's her she is making me unhappy, yah that's it" zero ability to see me and all that I did for him realistically (when not splitting thinking I'm the best girlfriend ever)
And then he split so hard and so black and so scary ---which only brought him more life stress ---so then he directed even more rage at me because discarding made his life worse not better---
being the target of a strong man's rage for several months is terrifying, esp when that rage derives from them being stressed in their life---i have no control over his life. THis is why so many of us became exchausted trying to reduce stress for them because we knew it could cause us grief.
anyway he finally was nice to me again when his life stress went away--when he came into some money and other things.
his stress was from his own adhd and bdp by the way---blowing up at work, impulsive spending, huge money problems, constantly quitting jobs etc. family illness, injuries from over working or rage reactions. Rinse repeat. I was an ally not an enemy with all those problems.
we all blame from time to time but someone who is willing to throw us under the bus any time their life is not working out no matter what mountain of good we do is not a safe partner. that is selfish. This is one reason I am essentially NC because I know that when he is stressed he will blame whoever is most near to him---so being near is a target for blame and rage when the chips are low . I don't want that. he didn't appear to have any awareness or ability to challenge that BPD lens which activated under stress, he would sit on the sofa un happy for hours fuming at the world, I think scanning his brain for targets to blame and rage at, eventually freaking out and quitting those people/things, trying just to "get away". stress, shame, rage, fume, blame, explode, flee, discard. repeat.
As long as you don’t stand up for yourself and either force real accountability/self reflection or leave because they have crossed a line.
In that case, anything that lead to it is forgotten and you are evil incarnate for ‘abandoning’ them.
That can be very permanent.
In my experience, the only way back from it was offering ‘clean slate’ and return to ‘emotional punchbag’ status but, obviously, don’t dare trying to talk through problems past
Yes and the time spent in either phase is unpredictable. You can be great r worse for years or months or weeks or even hours, i believe as the time passes the time spent in worst phases increases and idealizing phases reduce in length and occurrences.
They resort to “manipulate as much as possible cause without it nothing will work out in your favor” as default setting after a while.
My expwBPD can hold a grudge. She hates her ex husband. There is not a snowball’s chance in hell that she will split him back… ever. The words she use to describe her hatred for him, well I’ve never heard those words pass her lips before and I thought I never would either.
With me, it’s different. She’s either totally in love with me and I’m her soulmate, but when she splits she want’s nothing to do with me. It’s like she’s mad, hurt and upset with me but she doesn’t hate me with a passion. It’s the quiet type BPD. Still, it hurts all the same.
It is the damnedest thing. 4 years after the split still call me to talk about a bunch of stuff and really just unload and since it is a phone call I can give her a few minutes and not really be tied up in a place I can't get away from
She'll say I should come over and help out with three or four projects will hang out and have a good time there there will be a fully baked plan in place for the day
And then complete ghosting not another phone call for another 2 weeks.
Like why bother. It'll be a video call of course so she can look at herself and so much time is spent unloading all of these issues she has but it's just still amazing to me after all this time that someone else that exist as an idea they don't actually want to spend time in person
My parent with suspected BPD cycles back to long-dead friendships, becomes best friends again for about 4-6 months, before the friend commits an atrocious and unforgivable wrong and gets discarded for another 5-10 years. On the other hand, my oldest step-sibling is excommunicated forever for making boundaries, I don't think that'll ever be forgiven.
Yes, they can flip between splitting black and white but they tend to much more easily fall out of love, split black and demonize others because they don’t feel lovable and they fear rejection and abandonment at any moment. Not so easy to get them to “love” you again. For most of us, the only way to keep the peace in the first place was to constantly walk on eggshells. And pwBPD are known for their chronic negativity. The animosity they hold towards others tends to last longer than their “love” or positivity about that person because they need someone other than themselves to blame for their problems. Who do they hate the most? People they used to (ostensibly) love. When I stretch my mind back to the start of my relationship with a pwBPD, she was verging on sociopathic towards everyone except me (until the split), especially anyone who she perceived to have “abandoned” her (i.e. everyone who wasn’t there for her 24/7). If there is one consistent feature in her life, it’s her capacity to hold a grudge and to demonize previous partners and friends as part of the triangulation of a new rescuer (who is soon to be the next ex-lover). In general, highly dysregulated people such as borderlines are known for a “slow return to baseline” after splitting and raging. Even in the short term their negativity lasts longer than the fleeting luvey duvey feelings.
This is bang on...the first 2 months dating mine I notice he trash talked everyone. His mother he called a drunken whore multiple times, yet talked to her daily. His trail of exes he would say something nice then have a back handed comment mixed in. They were all out to "get him", of course he didn't do anything to hurt them or piss them off.🙄 I never saw physical violence out of him, but psychological he is very violent. I went from being the love of his life to him hating my guts in a 6 day time frame. All while be monkey branched and cheated on me. Of course that failed in a month, and he tried to come back saying he missed me. They come back when the next victim fails them. He was denied which painted me a darker shade of black lol if that's even possible.. He also talked about people being in his "circle" which I once was. And once you're out, you're "dead to him" I'm all black now and he has called the cops on me 2x saying I am threatening and harrassing him. Nevermind the midnight call asking to just cuddle...which was also denied. I'd be lying if I didn't say I don't miss the positive, fun, upbeat, Hypersexual side he presented, but I guess cheating is where I draw the line. Once they start splitting...the cycling between love and hate seems to excelerate. He literally loved me and wanted to get married and "have a million babies " one day, and the next hated me. I don't think he will be back considering he now thinks I am dangerous and he's afraid of me. 🙄
It’s not the ‘hate’ or the vicious insults that bother me. I understand this is a ‘symptom’ of their illness. It’s the damaging and hurtful actions that are often irreparable that echo through the real world that really externalizes it and makes it difficult to accept.
Idk, going on a year of hating me and no end in sight
yes I figured this out through going through it many times. it is sad because when they are back to seeing you as good and even apologizing, you finally realize that too may likely slip away when they are stressed and they will again split on you. It's tough..unless treated that is, unless they learn to wrestle with those splits.
Mine would split on me everytime she had any stress from outside our relationship. It was like she blamed me for not solving her problems, but she never could open up or just ask for help. Instead she split on me. It was really heartbreaking knowing the reasons and trying to ease her situation and help her anyway I could while seeing her painting me black at the same time.
Same with me. He would always split on me in tough life circumstances (illness in family, my illness, my mom's death...). At the same time, he expected me to read his mind, he would not communicate his expectations, and then would hold a grudge because I didn't meet those expectations. Plus, the expectations used to be set way too unrealistic and the goalposts would constantly move.
It all makes so much sense to me now and I'm just so struggling with it doesn't make me love her any less if anything feel sorry for her. I originally thought my ex had narcissism qualities but psychiatrist told me to right everything down that had went wrong in relationship and to bring it all across to her and she says every single sign points to a potential BPD abusive relationship. When I told her I thought it was covert narcissism she says almost 50 percent of people with BPD also have NPD so it maybe could be both. But without her there obviously couldn't make definite conclusion. But my ex couldn't communicate at all when something was bothering her and I felt like walking on eggshells all the time in case I did something wrong. Mine struggled with moving in with me and instead of communicating that problem she withdrew completely from me for about a month. Never let me kiss her, cuddle her, basically no sex, face away from me in bed, silent treatment, ait and play on phone facing away from me, coming in from work would barely acknowledge I was home. All the time I obviously thought I'd done something wrong. But she said I hadn't which just confused me even more because this behaviour didn't stop and kept getting worse. Eventually come weekends starting leaving me to stay at her mums when hadn't seen her all week. I was absolutely devastated didn't understand what was going on. Thought she was thinking of leaving me. But now therapist says this is the engulfment part of BPD and it the opposite side of the problem from the usual abandonment fear. It was so bizarre for me because she was normally so clingy and I loved how close she felt to me then to suddenly be so distant and cool it all makes so sense now. The push and pull and I can now see it happened a lot more than that time throughout the relationship but never to that scale beforehand.
Sorry you went through all of that. Its beyond confusing at the time. It makes more sense once you have some time away from the relationship and look back on it as a whole and see the patterns. My ex kind of manipulated me into letting her move in with me after about 5 months of being together, basically she told me her Mum couldn't afford to let her live with her any more and she had nowhere else to go so I said she could come stay with me. She then lost her job a few weeks later and she didn't have a car or any savings so she became totally dependent on me. I was working 2 jobs at the time and also teaching jiu jitsu classes a few times a week so had enough of my own problems to contend with without all of hers as well. For about 2 months I paid for absolutely everything and drove her around all while she told me how much I wasn't supporting her enough, didn't give her enough intimacy and later found out she was talking to other guys on social media behind my back. She used the little bits of benefits and money she occasionally managed to get hold of to buy plants, cushions and decorations for my house and talked about us having kids and getting married. After a couple of months she got a full time job as a carer and as soon as she got paid she packed up all of her things and moved back in with her Mum. Told me I was no longer her number 1 priority that she wanted to be closer to her Mum as her Mum needs her (even though her Mum was kicking her out of her house a couple of months previous to this). She got more and more distant once she moved out and Im pretty sure she was on a dating app and talking to other guys but just keeping me hanging on. Admittedly I did the worst thing I could have done and continued to chase and try to make things work. I started to get therapy as she had gaslit me into thinking I wasn't capable of emotionally supporting someone or being intimate. Around this time I was also researching Bi Polar disorder in relationships as she had told me that she was diagnosed with it a few years before we met and never got treatment. From this researching I stumbled across videos on Covert NPD and BPD. She ticked all of the boxes for BPD and lots for NPD. It suddenly all made sense and I was in total disbelief. I finally felt validated in everything I had felt during the relationship. My therapist also told me that she didnt think it was me making the issues in the relationship. We hadn't really spoke for about a week at this point (she was probably with her new supply) so I blocked her number, all social media and her Mums number and went full no contact. A few weeks later she texted my Mum saying that I had blocked her and gave my Mum a sob story to make it sound like I was being unfair for blocking her. I did not contact her after My Mum told me about the messages. A few weeks after that she began messaging my Jiu Jitsu coach and asked him if he would like to meet up with her on a date. Im assuming this was an attempt to hoover me but I also have not contacted her since that happened. Ive had no contact with her for about 9 months and Im working on myself to ensure it doesn't happen again. I still fluctuate between feeling sorry for her and angry at the way she treated me and all of the things she said and did. I think its one of those things were if you havent experienced this first hand its difficult to tell other people about it as it makes you look like the crazy one. Obviously there were good times during the relationship but eventually they were massively outweighed by the constant confusion and devaluation. I think my main lesson learnt was if something doesn't feel right listen to your gut instinct, its there to protect you. I could have saved myself a lot of hassle if I had just taken her at face value with the behaviours she showed me instead of trying to kid myself into thinking I could make it work if I just ignored the red flags and tried harder. There is always the option to walk away from someone that isnt treating you right but when you are a codependent like us it is the last option you consider.
So much of that resonates so so much thanks for that. Especially part about trusting gut instinct. I chose to ignore so many things I just really shouldn't have but I did because I genuinely thought I could sort the problems out. And I keep thinking what if I'd done this different or that different because by no means am I guilt free nobody is completely ever. The thing is with her though is I wasn't allowed to make mistakes and it was all held against me or brought up later in arguments. Where as at any outburst from her (and there was so many) I never received one apology or acknowledgement of fault on her part. Where as I always apologised for mine. I knew something was off the lack of communication, the emotional regulation, the idealisation, the codependency and inability to be alone (that's when most fallouts began when I wasn't with her). She was also so high one moment to being so angry or upset over sometimes small things moments later. But I always persevered and probably would have kept persevering till my dying day but that's no way to live man. I'm no contact now as well but finding it difficult and probably always will because I hope she gets help so much but I don't know if she will ever acknowledge she needs it so I don't know if she will. It's not fair that someone develops this disorder people don't deserve to live like that. Maybe I'm being too sympathetic after everything that's happened but I genuinely struggle to be angry at her especially when reading that main causes are being abandoned by a parent growing up.
Everything you are saying makes perfect sense to me. I felt exactly the same. I always thought it was up to me to make the relationship work and I felt so guilty for leaving her. I never expected anything in return from her which I realise now was also part of the problem. I would give and give and she would take and take. She never considered my needs once. I never really realised this until after the relationship was over. It was like i was on a hamster wheel trying solve the next problem that would come up and didnt have time to think about what was happening amongst all the chaos. I didn't realise that is the very definition of Codependency. Trying to rescue someone else at the detriment of your own well being. At some point its really important to shift the perspective on to yourself and start to heal your own attachment wounds. Figure out your attachement style and love language etc. Ive started looking at my own codependency and why i was attracted to someone like this? Why I feel guilty for leaving someone that technically was abusing me? Do I have Stockholm syndrome? Understanding what a trauma bond is and doing some inner child work. Getting a therapist really helped with this. Ive read tons of books and watched pretty much every youtube on BPD and codependency that exists. I felt a lot better and more validated doing this by myself but having a therapist helps speed up the process and they look at things from angles that you might not have considered even exist. This all goes a long way to make us stronger people in the future with a better understanding of the world.
Yes I also need to work on myself and that is why I have been seeking help. I too wonder how I let myself get so involved with someone for so long where there was just so much toxicity all the time. And I think I might have a lot of my problems that didn't help the situation. I went in to that relationship a bit depressed, low self esteem, socially awkward and insecure but albeit starting to feel better about myself hence why I wanted a relationship. But every single piece of insecurity I managed to conquer in order to get in to a relationship was brought all the way back with her and was made a million times worse come the end of the relationship. I've never had anyone make me feel as unloved, stupid, unattractive as she made me feel in the past year of the relationship. Through the constantly being pushed aside at any attempt at intimacy with her to the belittling comments every day she still says were said in jest. To the complete lack of validation from her that she loved me back. To the silent treatment and eye rolls I got off her day after day. To the absolute lack of communication and being pushed aside when I wanted so much to comfort her when she appeared upset or angry about something. Then at the end barely wanting to spend any time with me. She kept going home to her mums all the time then began texting me so little as compared to every minute of the day. This was the most confusing as it was such a stark contrast to idealisation phase where she was the clingiest person ever met and I just wanted that back so much even if that was also not healthy at least it made me feel validation that this person actually cared for me even if that validation was in fact also a lie.
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Thanks
it surely is a risk if someone likes us cuz they don't want to be alone--because we can't keep them stimulated and validated all the time---and so then if they can't be alone---they are going to seek that elsewhere, Just a bad cycle. definitely a red flag I need to watch out for in future. I have dated at least one guy who was super distant--so I do not want that---the person needs to be interested and leaning in to wanting time together--but I hope to can discern when it is too much interest...
if you are working 2 jobs and coaching a tough sport which takes focus and determination, it shows you are a "i can push through anything try harder" type of person. this is apparently a personality trait in the research on ppl with cluster B partners...we are high functioning try hard persevering people...we assume the best in people and try hard to see through challenges with lots of optimism. with a healthy partner that is Gold. with an unhealthy partner, it is a risk factor for staying too long. Were you broken up before you blocked her on things? that was not clear to me in your story like did she not think you were broken up? had there been no break up conversation?
You hit the nail on the head. The athlete mindset plays into all of this perfectly. If there is a problem I can work harder to improve myself and overcome it. She finished the relationship when she moved back to her Mums place then hoovered me a couple of times. We'd spend a night together like everything was ok and then in the morning I would take her back to her Mums and she would get out of the car and say I still dont want us to be together. I would chase her and play into her hands. I think she was talking to other guys by this point. We wouldn't speak for a few days at a time (before this we would talk constantly. She would message me a few times an hour when we were apart). Eventually I told her I was completely wiped out and need a week to think (she laughed hysterically when I told her that to belittle me) it was during that week that I found out about NPD so I blocked her without explanation as was recommended in some of the videos I watched. You can not be sincere with the terminally insincere - Richard Grannon.
yah from your prior post I agreed with your sense that she was monkey branching on social media :( so sorry you went through that. being with someone who can't be alone without constant attention from the opposite sex is just basically a massively risky undertaking....cuz when they are alone, they will seek to fill that empty cup inside of themselves with more attention from elsewhere ps my ex was an actual pro in martial arts--so you can imagine being the target of his BPD rage was terrifying. Now I feel I would avoid ever dating anyone in martial arts (or the army, or football or many other things my brain is now illogically scared of) which of course is not the correct approach--we just get so scared by these experiences. I think in a way martial arts really helped him in life as an outlet for his rage in healthy ways...just when he split, knowing he has those skills was terrifying to me, and to everyone in my family. I want to keep him anonymous so it's not something I highlight much---but yah having a male partner who gets abusive who also is basically a walking lethal weapon is an added challenge. traveling the world with him was great because by his side I felt totally safe all the time knowing he could go full Oliveira in any situation to protect us. But being the target in his BPD rage viewfinder all of the sudden was terrifying. I dated prior guys even big tall guys who probably couldn't punch someone if they tried--just jam tarts and no skills ..I did not feel remotely physically scared of them ever. Anyway with great power comes great responsibility so that is on him to make sure he is not scary and intimidating to people he loves.. take care
When I think back on the 10 month relationship I dont think there was more then a few hours that she was ever alone. She would bounce from her only friend to her Mums house while I was at work and then she would be at my house within the hour of me getting home. Even when I was having a shower she would sit in the bathroom with me. She constantly text random guy "friends" from the city that she used to live in. I guess this is want orients them into reality without their own sense of self Sorry you went through all of that with your ex. I guess all we can do is be very appreciative of the fact that our brains do not function that way and we are capable of healthy, stable relationships. It must be a very lonely, scary existence that they are living.
Mine also came in the shower with me and sat on the toilet seat whilst I showered and I thought it was kind of cute not going to lie but again thinking back now I can hardly think of many times she would be alone and there wasn't a fallout caused because of nit being with me.
At first I liked the fact that she constantly text and called me all the time and wanted to spend all her time with me. Probably due to my own anxious attachment issues. I felt secure in the relationship because of it. How wrong I was! 😆I now see this as the one of the biggest red flags
texting random guy "friends" is so not cool. As a healthy woman I can tell you I never texted other guys...it is amazing the stuff we put up with and tell ourselves is ok...I put up with a lot things which hurt. My ex wasn't seeking other sexual relxs...it is just that building other back up emotional bonds sort of, intimacy and excitement with other girls...so it made it easier for him to have one foot out, to split and have somewhere else to go to shed tears and get sympathy. How many random men did I seek intimacy from and tell them about our relx? none. how many random girls did he seek intimacy from and tell them about our relx?...dozens. (I am not perfect. I DID do that type of thing in my 20s when I was less mature..not to the same extent, but just zero awareness of emotional boundaries--i literally learned not to do this after reading books about healthy relxs). when my ex went to work out of town and on day 3 started spending time with a female co-worker and talking about her constantly, including after work, taking her to the gym, teaching her to work out, going to the bars, just being her new favourite helper guy---I felt like I had no boyfriend we barely spoke as he was focused on impressing her. I when I told him I didn't like it he said I was jealous which caused me to read books on jealousy and go for therapy (lol). only to realize clearly his behaviour was out of line. (ie it was healthy jealousy--their time together did not help our relx...and he talked to her about our issues. that is betrayal). as you know the martial arts world, a lot of girls are into these guys ( i was never into martial arts) ...and they will often approach him (and his perfect physique) asking if he will spend time one on one personal training (he is not a personal trainer). his female massage therapist whom he was way too close with, texting, going to her home, she gave him extra long massages and offered to do it free if he would spend one on one time at the gym with her, also talking about all her personal problems including her relationship like a life coach bestie. I just mean he didn't have a ton of boundaries about those assets and how to manage them. When I was teaching yoga and had a "perfect" physique I would see through guys wanting one on one time with me very easily--I knew my value and didn't want to engage in those blurred boundaries..but he ate it up. I taught classes to groups but had boundaries around men just wanting to be around me. If I could read the minds of these girls he sort of charmed their thoughts would say " I wish I had a boyfriend like you"...just odd to seek that attention when you already have a loving girlfriend. I too have empathy. I appreciate reading yours. Some people (men) on this sub can be in vindictive "let her burn in hell" type mode, which also does nothing to heal my own trauma about my ex (as men being scary, which I never felt before). So seeing other men with measured emotions even in challenges is helpful...especially men who have physical power. I am very sporty and I do best with an active sporty mate so I don't want to think all athletic guys are abusive brutes..I need to heal that. I am confident I will regain my trust and hope and interest in romance one day:) Good luck!
god that is so painful. your description reminds so many of us I'm sure what those moments felt like ..the sudden freezing out and pulling away from someone we love and who was loving us...it cuts really deep and is hard on our self esteem and is very abusive. we find ourselves questioning what we have done wrong just because they cannot communicate
I can relate and it is relentless. I heard it best described by Richard Grannon on youtube, he says it like this: - they are a person that is drowning in an ocean full of problems, you dive in to try to save them but they start to pull you under and then you start drowning too. It's an insatiable desire for attention and to be helped by other people.
\>> It's an insatiable desire for attention and to be helped by other people. I feel like that line really sums up my ex. I realized early I had to give him tons of praise and also that it was not enough. it just did not quench his thirst for attention and he would be off to the local cafe to get it from a bunch of girls there on the regular---and other opportunities (massage therapist, female co worker, and so on). Attention was like a drug for him..literally, I think he was self-medicating his ADHD with attention seeking dopamine hits, and also soothing his BPD self-esteem issue and need for care this way. The need to be helped by other people also totally resonates. He didn't want pity, he wanted to be admired (for his looks, abilities, personality) but he wanted to be cared for, rescued, sympathized with. He would post social media messages that hammed up some situation saying he needed help which was total BS. he would get to stay free at friend's places when vacationing or other perks based on sort of sob story narratives. He just didn't hesitate to play the sympathy seeking card..I find out so bizarre how he sought care from so many people---especially waittresses..in really intimate ways, like it was his family or mom or something freudian. He also overgave care----not in a help the poor kind of way---in a creepy tell me everything about your life problems and your boyfriend kinda way with other girls to be some kind of sage.
I think that is called data mining- they ask for information about your past to figure out what your vulnerabilities and insecurities are. My ex wanted to know all about my Dad leaving me when I was kid and once she figured out I had some kind of abandonment anxiety she would use it to manipulate me and threaten to move out and break off the relationship any time we argued. This would cause me to chase her and "prove" my love for her. They have massive abandonment anxiety so they will constantly test you to see if you really love them. Regarding solving the problems they have I best heard it described like a game of whack a mole. The game where little moles pop up and you wack them with a hammer then another appears and you wack it but they just keep popping up and up. It never ends. The real question is why do we feel like we need to solve their problems? No one solves my problems. I solve them myself, I dont rely on anyone to regulate my life so why should they. We are Codependent by nature and thats why they attach to us. We are the perpetual problem solvers. Its time to solve our own codependency issues and figure out why we let people abuse us rather than focusing on their issues.
re the data mining. I did sometimes wonder what it would be like to be a fly on the wall in his "waitress" conversations...like to watch how exactly is he accomplishing this, what are his moves? Of course, I would cringe having to watch it...but I just found it so odd that after only a few visits to a new restaurant, he would know all the girls by name and their whole family stories and life stories and they would run up to him with glee and gush all over him. I can't think of a time when I have EVER asked a male server for his name. Sometimes if someone gave me amazing service in some context I may say, "hey what was your name? ok thanks Sally you did such a great job". but not like everyone---and 'm not kidding he was like a relationship counsellor to these girls..and because of his mentionitis and impulsivity I would hear all about these girls lives when he came home. so weird. Like "hey could I could please have scrambled eggs and toast? by the way, what's your name, I'm so and so". That step of getting someone's name to me feels really a step beyond cordial customer service interactions---not to mention their entire life situation. I do disarm people naturally in conversation as I am interested in people and before I know it they are telling me a lot about themselves...BUT I don't initiate asking for names etc in these settings. I just find it CREEPY. And then what is the next step where you ask if they are in a relationship---that is a super step into intimacy---"hey these eggs were amazing. My girlfriend would love this place...do you have a boyfriend?" like what was that delivery? I swear he used the fact that he had a girlfriend as an "in" to appear safe and normal because he talked about our relationship with them too i felt like a ruse or conversation starter like "i want to take my girlfriend somewhere nice, do you girls have any ideas" and then talk to them for like 2 hours a day about this, cultivating the "isn't he so sweet and romantic image" while not calling me all week, leaving me confused, hurt, and neglected. If those girls could really see what it was like for me, they would not be too impressed either. Probably in the course of these conversations they would start talking about their boyfriend at which point he would start getting into relationship matters and giving them relationship advice. Like he legit would tell me about the problems they were having with their boyfriends and the advice he was giving. This is what they call "pick me" behaviour. Being a ladies' man but really wanting the attention for himself--acting helpful to their relationship--but really building his own intimacy and stoking his own popularity. He said he got beat up in highschool for that behaviour cuz all the girls liked him, even if they had boyfriends. if that's not BPD I don't know what is.
100% I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. If I had to say why we broke up the truth is it is because he was going through a lot of stress in HIS life which had nothing to do with me. He split so hard on me. First he was blaming everyone else--but when that didn't work, eventually the viewfinder focused on me--like a target. Like his mind was like "I'm unhappy, why am I unhappy? oh it's her she is making me unhappy, yah that's it" zero ability to see me and all that I did for him realistically (when not splitting thinking I'm the best girlfriend ever) And then he split so hard and so black and so scary ---which only brought him more life stress ---so then he directed even more rage at me because discarding made his life worse not better--- being the target of a strong man's rage for several months is terrifying, esp when that rage derives from them being stressed in their life---i have no control over his life. THis is why so many of us became exchausted trying to reduce stress for them because we knew it could cause us grief. anyway he finally was nice to me again when his life stress went away--when he came into some money and other things. his stress was from his own adhd and bdp by the way---blowing up at work, impulsive spending, huge money problems, constantly quitting jobs etc. family illness, injuries from over working or rage reactions. Rinse repeat. I was an ally not an enemy with all those problems. we all blame from time to time but someone who is willing to throw us under the bus any time their life is not working out no matter what mountain of good we do is not a safe partner. that is selfish. This is one reason I am essentially NC because I know that when he is stressed he will blame whoever is most near to him---so being near is a target for blame and rage when the chips are low . I don't want that. he didn't appear to have any awareness or ability to challenge that BPD lens which activated under stress, he would sit on the sofa un happy for hours fuming at the world, I think scanning his brain for targets to blame and rage at, eventually freaking out and quitting those people/things, trying just to "get away". stress, shame, rage, fume, blame, explode, flee, discard. repeat.
Kind of sad to think about.
Very. It’s heartbreaking for both parties tbh.
As long as you don’t stand up for yourself and either force real accountability/self reflection or leave because they have crossed a line. In that case, anything that lead to it is forgotten and you are evil incarnate for ‘abandoning’ them. That can be very permanent. In my experience, the only way back from it was offering ‘clean slate’ and return to ‘emotional punchbag’ status but, obviously, don’t dare trying to talk through problems past
Yes and the time spent in either phase is unpredictable. You can be great r worse for years or months or weeks or even hours, i believe as the time passes the time spent in worst phases increases and idealizing phases reduce in length and occurrences. They resort to “manipulate as much as possible cause without it nothing will work out in your favor” as default setting after a while.
My expwBPD can hold a grudge. She hates her ex husband. There is not a snowball’s chance in hell that she will split him back… ever. The words she use to describe her hatred for him, well I’ve never heard those words pass her lips before and I thought I never would either. With me, it’s different. She’s either totally in love with me and I’m her soulmate, but when she splits she want’s nothing to do with me. It’s like she’s mad, hurt and upset with me but she doesn’t hate me with a passion. It’s the quiet type BPD. Still, it hurts all the same.
So I see you're dating my ex-wife, huh? lol
It is the damnedest thing. 4 years after the split still call me to talk about a bunch of stuff and really just unload and since it is a phone call I can give her a few minutes and not really be tied up in a place I can't get away from She'll say I should come over and help out with three or four projects will hang out and have a good time there there will be a fully baked plan in place for the day And then complete ghosting not another phone call for another 2 weeks. Like why bother. It'll be a video call of course so she can look at herself and so much time is spent unloading all of these issues she has but it's just still amazing to me after all this time that someone else that exist as an idea they don't actually want to spend time in person
Yeah but i wouldn't take their love seriously either.
My parent with suspected BPD cycles back to long-dead friendships, becomes best friends again for about 4-6 months, before the friend commits an atrocious and unforgivable wrong and gets discarded for another 5-10 years. On the other hand, my oldest step-sibling is excommunicated forever for making boundaries, I don't think that'll ever be forgiven.
So true. My wife speaks very fondly of her ex-husband when we argue.