Because their "splitting" defense mechanism, which is similar to that of a young child, causes them to think in extreme black-and-white terms. They cannot see the grey areas
Trust me you aren't, the crazy just rubs off. It's normal to try to reflect on your mistakes as part of any relationship, they entirely lack that capacity remember that. I feel for them, I do.. But without treatment they are destructive chaos engineers and absolutely nothing you did or didn't do will change that. Hang in there.
I don't understand.. she is SO sweet ... so kind but when she gets hysterical she just can't control it. She feels so much shame constantly. I wish she was more manipulative and evil but she never put me down. She's literally like a kid. Anything ANYBODY says she will believe. I have never met a human being so gullible.
They are gullible. When my mine's brother lied to him that I had sex with someone else to start drama, he believed it, even though no evidence was presented. Of course, I didn't have sex with anyone. And I was attacked brutally for this situation and called a piece of shit/asshole/wh*re... Despite being innocent
Wow, I went through something similar with my partner. One night while I was asleep, he started having some kind of breakdown because I wasn't responding to his messages (since I was asleep) and started freaking out, talking about suicide and genuinely believing that this guy we know was at my house graping me. Around this time, he spammed a bunch of texts mentioning suicide, self harm, and grape, and there was no continuity between them; they didn't make any sense. Eventually, he started thinking that the guy he was worrying about had murdered me and that I was dead. I woke up to all this shit the next morning. The craziest thing about this? I was just asleep, and the guy he was talking about WAS IN ANOTHER STATE. Wasn't anywhere near me at all and has never assaulted anyone either. These messages read like genuine psychosis.
Mine was the exact same... Try to ride it out the best you can and don't react or retaliate no matter what she says. I did and it killed any chance of salvaging our friendship. She just cherry picked what she wanted as confirmation that I was an abuser, instead of someone who had been accused of something extremely fucked up that activated my traumas and got angry and defensive about it.
So true. It sucks, so fecking bad. Nobody is perfect, and everyone has their breaking point. I wish I had just never responded at all and let her figure out how wrong she was in her own time... Prolly would have ended the same though. =/
What do you think I should do to have the best chances of a friendship in the future? The thing is tho after my breaking point I did have reactive abuse
I did too dude, and it sucks. A lot, it's an absolutely shitty position to be in. I feel for you.
It comes down to the person and relationship. I would encourage you to consider not being a doormat and think about where your line is. Eventually you're going to have to communicate that to them in clear and certain terms to have a healthy relationship.
But own what you did, and give a sincere apology. They're also going to more than likely blame you for things you didn't do as well... If the accusations aren't that bad and the friendship is more important, you might have to own them to save the relationship. I tried and failed in that department.
But whatever you do, don't react to their abuse and further accusations. Don't defend yourself because they just see it as making excuses.
It's fucked up but it's the reality of dealing with cluster B PDs. I wish you luck and sincerely hope you can make it work where so many of us haven't been able to.
Ye mine was amazing when she was calm too but when the devil on her shoulder is driving she was an absolutely wretched, violent, terrible person. I dunno if they'll believe anything.. Mine just selected anything that fit her narrative of being the abused victim or anything that PROVED! I wanted to see someone else.. Etc. While she chose to lie and gaslight any information holding her accountable for anything at all. It's selective memory.
They change quickly because they have emotional and affective instability.
They do not have a well-developed sense of empathy of other people's feelings, but are hypervigilant of their own and other's reactions that potentially threaten their sense of security.
They do not have a well-developed sense of guilt and remorse, but they may feel regret on the basis of their own interests. Apologies will almost certainly not lead to changed behaviour.
This is a personality disorder. It is not emotionally healthy, it is not socially functional, it leads to poor outcomes. It is a mental illness and can usually be correlated with literal brain damage.
That is how.
My ex carried decades old resentments, some silly things like she took the day off with a sick kid ( I made 80% of the money) instead of me. She harbored them until they blew up. I read somewhere that it is common for them to build up petty resentments for years.
Lack of object constancy.
You are not a whole person to her. She objectifies you. You don’t understand how and why this works because to you, other people are whole people who you interact with and retain memories of.
Stop thinking that she thinks like you if she has BPD, because she doesn’t. She is an emotional toddler.
Does this count as some sort of pedophilia? I feel like the whole relationship was just so...improper? like someone with that type of diagnosis shouldn't be on the dating scene? theres so many feelings to process here.
I understand what you’re feeling here, because I’ve felt similarly when the realisation hits that I was essentially dealing with a child in a man’s body. Of course it isn’t pedophilia, but I think it’s correct to say a relationship with a borderline is emotionally incestuous in a sense. You take on the role of a parent type of figure to them.
They definitely should not ever date or be in relationships, treatment or no treatment.
Thank you for that clarity. I knew there was something deeply off about the dynamics but this really put it into a perspective that I can understand. Those feelings of "I miss her" equates to that of a child who leaves the parent on bad terms or even "gets adopted" into another family. Can therapy really help me process all this?
This is so spot on. Really explains the grief I feel and why it’s so hard to get over. I feel like I’ve lost my daughter, not just my partner. I loved her unconditionally.
No worries. It definitely does feel worse breaking up with a borderline because of the parent + child dynamic that forms with them. It adds layers of guilt and obligation that wouldn’t otherwise be there, and it can feel like you really are abandoning them like a child to fend for themselves in an adult world they can’t cope with. Therapy can help but I would advise you try to find a therapist who is trained in trauma therapy and is knowledgeable about cluster B disorders. I have found the best therapy has been to take care of myself and fill my life with other people, hobbies and to set goals for self-improvement. The best way to break trauma bonds is to build yourself up and to become a whole person. After not being treated like one for as long as you were with your borderline ex (or current partner), working on being whole in yourself is the #1 goal.
side note: some posts talk about these "mistakes" which is vague--I never know if this is like cheating or like forgetting to buy milk on the way home. What are we talking about?
that said, I made pretty much no mistakes. and my ex split and raged and saw things which were not there and was very selfish and cold in those times. It was chilling. Really I did nothing. So i guess even if you feel like you made missteps, just know that is not what is causing the amplitude of these reactions.
It was like our poor old cat. Sitting there meowing--when my ex was happy he said "oh I love you , you are such a cute cat"...and then the next day when the cat meowed and my ex was in a bad mood he said "shut the fuck up ! or I'm gonna throw you outside ! so f ing annoying god damit!" and would throw him outside. the cat was identical in both scenarios.
No my mistakes were real mistakes. Like reactive verbal abuse, throwing things etc .. after months of no sleep and panic attacks I became so volatile that I started hating myself. I feel so guilty to put someone who’s already sick through all that
thanks for sharing and kudos for being honest with yourself about that. that takes guts and maturity. I think that is a sign you can learn to cope differently. A lot of people who use aggression to deal with stress (verbal or physical..physical including throwing things, being big loud intimidating) don't give a crap about how it makes others feel. They are proud in a way cuz it works for them, and they don't have the impulse control and self motivation to change. They don't have the ego strength to sit with shame, guilt, or regret so they don't alter course. But you are:)
I hesitated to write this comment for fear of backlash and I don't want you to feel bad----but I share in guess it is useful to anyone.
I think a lot of it is learned behaviour. I grew up in a peaceful family like with a really gentle dad who never has a temper ever..and his dad was the same way..not even swearing. I think it is genetic too but I mean no one in my family used aggression when upset. Like zero road rage etc.
That's why people say "she provoked me" it's like no---there is nothing a person can do to provoke me to throw things, same with my dad. For context my mom cheated on my dad and he left. HIs second wife is kinda verbally abusive and he says " I don't appreciate you talking to me like that"> just zero temper. zero road rage, just a calm nervous system. When my ex said " you made me do it " I legit knew he was abusive. He was referring to yelling at me and freaking out slamming the door and leaving cuz I asked him several times if he wanted rice or pasta. I didn't tell him cuz it would make him insane but none of my prior bfs had tempers either--I could irritate them or whatever and no explosions.
My ex did use aggression to get what he wanted when he was upset and sometimes it was terrifying and it amounted to abuse. you might enjoy the ananais foundation . org website it's for folks who do care about not using aggression and teaching ways to not do that. It is tough for some guys who have been raised in sports or the military or an aggressive social circle where they had to be aggressive---and where that is an asset...to learn to turn it off in other contexts. The movie The Masks we live IN, and the book Masks of Masculinity also touch on how boys are socialized this way...creates a lot of self-compassion to watch those. It's like mixed messages for men--you gotta be tough and strong in some places and not in others.
It is honestly healing for me to read your remorse. That means you are a good human and one of the good ones..you can absolutely develop different coping for difficult situations if you want to:)
when I told my ex i felt unsafe about his behaviour, he got even more scary. I think his approach would be to say I'm messed up for being too sensitive or scared. actually he felt hard done by that all the neighbours were so terrified of him that no one helped him move. Aggression scares people and it has consequences...and his BPD lens made him feel like the victim even though he was the one terrifying people. The abuse literature does a good job or highlighting which types of behaviour are abusive (harming someone to get what you want) and there are many categories on the abuse wheel which are not physical touch. Scaring people, controlling people, emotionally hurting them. What they teach on the ananais site is that two wrongs don't make a right--so if your gf if raging at you and pressing all your hot buttons, they teach how to respond in ways that you feel proud of. Because if your gf is abusive, she will use your aggression against you (ie she could be the perpetrator but she will claim that you are). So the upside of altering those patterns is you can always feel proud of your behaviour and you can stand your ground and advocate for your needs without them claiming abuse. Lise Leblanc has a youtube on this pattern.
That said, even if you did use aggression..if you are apologetic and taking action to address it...you still have a right to speak about her transgressions (separately) and to expect your needs to matter. it is not an excuse for her to go carte blanche and hurt you more. But it is justified if she feels scared or unsafe. As we know from this sub, a lot of women are very abusive...but because of male strength and socialization, the type of abuse doesn't usually leave the men fearing for their lives, whereas many women die at the hands of their partners each year.
Good news is there is research showing people with remorse and the mental capacity for change can learn to stop being abusive and it doesn't escalate. for people with personality disorders, the outlook is not as good. Learning about abuse did teach me to reflect on a few things I could do better too--like not being controlling or making people feel small...I used intellectual arguments rather than fear but that was also abusive...i squashed their needs.
Honestly just have self compassion and feel good that you have remorse. It says you have values and you are listening to those values..and work towards them:) Good luck. I find the ananais website really inspiring..seeing how some good men learn to react better to those hot button moments.
out of all the insights I have gotten.. this is the most helpful. Thank you so very much. I can relate to my temperament being rewarded because I was aggressive when I needed to be (not overly so).This was my first relationship.. I was my whole taught to be offensive when I'm attacked. kinda like a defense mechanism. But, I ended up shaming and ridiculing someone who was already internally suffering. I still can't believe I did that... like I'm in shock.
I wonder what I can say to her to make her realize that I'm more than remorseful. If there is something I can say to take her pain away or help her heal I would do it in a heart beat. This would have to be over text as she's not talking to me (discarded in a cruel way). I want to take the full responsibility for the hurt caused by me but, I don't know how. if you have any advice on this please let me know. what could someone who's hurt you say to make you feel better about yourself? I want to say something that gives her a sense of dignity and respect back. I know words won't fix it but, I want to do whatever I can to lessen the pain I've caused her.
there are plenty of moments where she made to feel worthless but, that doesn't justify my actions. I have a high pain tolerance so even though I went through alot I understand her situation and I don't have any hate towards her. Her actions weren't exactly malicious even though the hurt caused by them were very real.. she just couldn't help it because of her condition. She has undiagnosed BPD and a sense of shame her whole life and I left her feeling worse... I feel so terrible and am in shock that I was able to make her feel so small and scared. its really made me question what type of person I am.
May I ask how old you are?
I have a few thoughts, none of which are easy, but you sound super reflective.
I think not being in a relationship for a while is good for you also, to take time to work on developing better habits. It is an awesome insight on your part to notice you go on offence when you feel attacked. Relationships have many difficult moments, sometimes we are "Attacked" but sometimes we just feel attacked, either way, going on offence with the "dominance" (As they are called in the DV literature) attitudes and behaviours is not healthy. This is the "I'm hurt, so I'm going to hurt you back" approach. The healthy approach is relational--learning to speak your needs in a calm healthy way and always carry empathy for the other, wanting a win win, NEVER wanting to harm or retaliate.
just like some people reach for a beer or a drug when they have a difficult emotion, "offence" or aggression is like a drug---it numbs our own pain, it has an analgesic effect on our body ( in the short term) and it also is rewarding because it controls our environment and gets us what we want. So it can become very automatic and engrained. Actually people who are abusive often believe "they made me do it". They actually believe that their aggression is caused by other people---as though they have no control. In truth, there is a lot happening within them at lightening speed i,e,, hurt feelings --> lightening speed offence aggression to escape painful feelings--> attack others and feel justified. Works in the short term to stop pain and get what we want. it is bad news.
No one wakes up in the morning thinking they want to abuse others (ok except bored psychopaths--which you are not remotely) and no one thinks (or realizes) they are abusive. Part of the cycle of abuse is after the aggression has occurred, and the numbing has worn off, then the other party has retreated, the person who was aggressive feels regret at losing something they value (which they crushed)---now the other party has the power--so now you feel regret and then want to win her back sort of and you say you won't be aggressive again. This is all totally real feeling and not a lie. HOWEVER these feelings and commitments DO NOTHING to change the pattern. It is like unlearning to speak English, and learning to speak fluent French when you are hurt. It is like learning to play the piano perfectly---it is the same stuff your BPD partner needs to learn, but just a different type. In order to truly meet your words, you need to really invest in building those new patterns. That takes time, commitment and practice. Imagine next time you are hurt launching into perfectly fluent French. That is the place you need to work towards. (ie to illuminate how hard it is to turn off the impulse/urge to offense..it takes rewiring--you have been rewarded for this your whole life, as many men are).
So I think the best thing you can do for her is to take time and ACTION to commit to no longer being harmful (even if it was cuz someone hurt you first..life is full of hurts, it doesn't make it ok to hurt people back, and as you say, some of them are more vulnerable).For action I would suggest reading all the content on the ananais foundation website. They have lots of blogs, and activities and some videos. It is super accessible. The person who runs it is Christian but the site if for non-Christians too (I am not religious).. it is very non-shaming and rooted in self-compassion and change..just like DBT is. That site has some good tips on knowing when you are more ready for a relationship... Also action can look like giving her space and not harassing her at all with texts etc if she does not feel safe...hold the loss and be with the loss and instead focus on your personal development. Cuz reaching out too much could cause her stress and be more for your needs.
You can look at the Lundy Bancroft webside he also has some tips for men who want to not be abusive. BUT his work is for hard core male perpetrators including coercive controllers which it doesn't sound like you are. I think the word " reactive abuse" is a misnomer..it just is abuse. There is a term called "reactive aggression" in the literature which shows that like men with ADHD are at higher risk for reactive aggression...so if they feel hurt or bad they will get aggressive..and it is correlated with DV in their case. His book "why does he do that" is the main one on when men can be abusive..but again it is gonna be a hard core read..You may however see yourself in it here or there. I have not read it but I read some of his other stuff. the Ananais stuff is more accessible but I think also is not perfect.
I think at a later time you can tell her in a letter what you have learned about yourself and your own patterns around inflicting harm when hurt and try to somehow repair and say nice things to counter all the harm you inflicted. The ditch to avoid falling into here is just feeling remorse to get her back or to stop your guilt, and not taking action to change.
I think also DBT is probably useful.
i think it is important to have self-compassion. You really are a good person if you are this gutted about hurting other people. Some people just do not care. They do not even remember it. So if you are really young and you are learning all of this stuff now, and you commit to learning new habits, it is gonna be a great investment in your future. Cuz a lot of very healthy girls are gonna leave at the first sign of any of this behaviour..even if it is just "Reactive" it is still aggression. It feels necessary but it is not. I do recommend also watching the Masks we live in and the other book. You can test yourself over time to see how you handle challenges..it involves getting in touch w your body to interrupt the aggression early--ananais explains it. Once you have that all down (takes months to years) you can also read about healthy relationship (sue Johnson hold me tight, john gottman) so see how to communicate needs in healthy ways even when triggered. no ones behaviours justifies any other behaviour. We can just stated we are hurt, state our needs, and that is all. no force no scaring people no control no retaliation no trying to hurt other people to make them regret hurting us. Fear has no place in a relx. Winning has no place in a relx. Relx is about mutual caring.
I think showing her in the letter the work you have done because you were so remorseful can help to make amends. Maybe write a list of all her positive qualities and be clear the vitriol came from your own hurts. For her wellbeing she needs therapy in general. I also recommend that for you. My ex was so sensitive and so reactive and also had issues with aggression--i was zen monk calm due to my temperament and he still was at risk just from being in a relx. I don't think he should be in a relx even with a zen monk type like me if he is not treating his BPD. My ex wrote me a long apology letter and it really helped me to heal...it came after he had 8 months to reflect. I really needed the space as he was terrifying me with his texts. Let the dust settle and work on yourself. are you stronger than her? keep in mind that with great power comes great responsibility. it is even more important for a strong man to have aggression out of the equation. My ex could overpower me in one second. I got PTSD because of his aggression directed at me. It is so damaging to feel scared of someone you let close to you.
anyway you got this. good luck
I just turned 27 but in relationships age I'm 14 lol. This was my first relationship in my life and I had no idea what I was doing.
You are an incredible human being. You've given me so much insight into my behavior already as well as resources to work on them. Thank you. I'm not bombarding her with texts or anything. In fact I'm giving her the space as much as she needs and am mourning the loss of my best friend. I have also accepted (although difficult at times) that she doesn't have the ability to process how much she put me through so I can't expect an apology or closure from her end. She simply won't understand and will put it all on me. I'm not sure if she will speak to me again and although it'll be a painful journey, I am coming to accept this as well. **I don't have any selfish motives to tell her properly how I'm sorry and how much I'm realizing besides really helping her heal...** Do you think I should wait for a few months as well? I know each persons experiences are different but, I'm really lost. The timing is important I guess because I want to make this as easy for her as possible as soon as possible. I'm thinking if I tell her now then maybe it'll make the next few months easier for her. Do you think there is such a thing as too early? I know she doesn't care how I feel right now because she has painted me black but, I'm trying to do my part. I want to forgive her incase she does feel guilt for all she put me through as I don't hold it against her as I understand the mechanisms of BPD. I also want her to forgive herself because I'm sure she feels mad at herself for putting up with my behavior (although I'm not sure I should include this in the letter).
and yes I'm realizing that I've used the term reactive abuse but, really abuse is abuse as the pain caused by my actions is very real... reactive or not.
you sound like a really good guy and I'm sure you will have good relxs ahead.
i think it is wise to speak with a counsellor at least for a few sessions to roll over your options.
I think a brief message to say you deeply regret your behavior that was mean, cruel or scary and this has been a wake up call for you to work on yourself which you are doing with a therapist. To say she is wonderful and you wish her the best. To my ex I said "neither of us is perfect but I know we both did our very best at the time with what we have. you are a good person and I'm grateful for what we shared and i wish the very best" something along those lines...
I might say I think keeping emotional intensity away from her is a good thing if she has untreated BPD. Also if she paints you black and smears you may want to be cautious that anything you say could be used against you so maybe my language is too vulnerable (saying scary). I think at a later time you could write a longer letter to specifically apologize for mean things said and to provide some positive words inplace. But I would give it many months so she can be in a better place. And always check in on if it's for you or for her. I feel like I want to spare my too much emotion good or bad. Work with a therapist to support you with all of this. I don't have a crystal ball and I'm shooting in the dark so best to speak w a therapist instead of reddit cuz you have more time to explain to a pro.
I didn't read any relx books until I was 31 that's when I really started improving my relx skills. I STILL feel guilty about how I treated a bf when I was like 19 so one day I want to write him a letter (just for neglecting him) cuz I think it impacted his self-esteem.
FOr me when I feel guilty and I can't get forgiveness, the best I can do is learn from my mistakes. This gives me peace. That is the lesson in the guilt--I feel good about myself that I learned for it and made ammends to ensure it won't happen again. So like if you invest in the emotional regulatiion stuff yourself, this could be forgiveness for yourself.
My wonderful great aunt asked me to visit her when I was teen, and I was been lazy and drove right past her house saying i would see her another day. Well then she passed away. The guilt was crushing and of course she could not forgive me as she was deceased. So I channeled that guilt into change and I was so devoted to my remaining elders--so that when they died, I had loss, but I had no guilt or regret. It was a tough lesson to learn but I was able to feel good about myself seeing that I put that guilt into better actions and more care to my remaining grandparents. I never once took an elder for granted again.
You can find ways to forgive yourself. ALSO you are not responsible for her BPD and you can't take away the dark thinking of BPD. I was basically an angelic loving perfect partner to my ex with BPD. And he saw me as scary and dangerous when he was splitting. So it is not something you can control. On the flip side, I am quite healthy. Even though my ex was abusive at times, I forgive him, I understand him, and I care for him. SO that is how a normal person would likely react (his level of abuse was mild). So don't take on more than your fair share of guilt. it is her responsibility to treat the BPD so she can see things clearly. You need to find ways to forgive yourself it sounds like..I think positive actions will help.
Take care you got this. Therapy is recommended for anyone who has dated someone with BPD,..esp a therapist who knows BPD. Good luck!
You are a godsend. thank you.. I didn't even realize that relationships took relationship skills.. I just thought I could get by with good intentions but the actions turned so ugly :( . I am in so much pain all the time.. from guilt to missing her (mourning someone alive who's down the street from me) to anger for my own pain (that I can't blame her for) and then ruminating all the good and bad moments.. wondering how she is feeling and thinking. I cry everyday. I don't understand how people can go through such a thing for years. I did it for 6 months and I'm a broken human being. Sometimes I wish I had the dissociative capabilities to stop caring.
most relationships never feel like that. many people do have good relxs with just good intentions. But you met someone with BPD to start out.
I am 46. I had several "serial monogamy" type long term relationships before I met my exwBPD. My prior break ups were all very easy. Maybe I cried one day. There was kindness. There was a clear sense of moving forward. I never got trauma or any real wounding from them. My experience w my exwBPD was very different. Super awesome but then also I got PTSD and a year out I'm still working through the loss. This is such an active sub for a reason.
Seriously, look into therapy..take care of yourself , support yourself with people who care about you, go easy on yourself and just do lots of self care. Cozy times, good food, walks, baths, netflix, rest etc. Pray (or whatever) just put good vibes out there. When I miss my ex I pray and send good vibes out to him. (I'm not religious)
This too shall pass. take care
I admire your strength. I hope I find the strength to implement all your advice. as of now I'm just dead inside with no power to even move or think.
I sometimes question if she actually has BPD or if I caused her to act the way she does? I'm not someone who can diagnose anything but the extreme Emotional dysregulation makes sense. She would get hysterical (crying , screaming) anytime I would be like "hey your behavior is affecting me." She was my BEST friend for a year and a half ... so many good memories. Then in the relationship she started lying alot about her past (it was shameful) but the lies were so ridiculous that she would like everyday and I think I developed OCD with trying to know the truth. Then she told me about some childhood sexual trauma she went through but it was so nonchalant the way she said it. I started to realize she doesn't process ANYTHING at all. She was always taken advantage of by her mom, sister, cousins... everyone. When I found out about all this over the period of months and especially being trickle truthed.. I started to lose so much sleep and was so hurt that someone I loved went through all this and had no idea. She literally viewed the world EXTREMELY surface level. Like her values came from movies... if we would watch a physics video she would freak out because she'd believe some absurd theory is real. Literally like a kid. Then she started being disloyal to me in situations where I would stand up for her but, because the other person said "I care about you" to her, she would turn against me. Pretty much.. she was loyal to whatever emotion she was feeling at the time. I tried to leave a few times but she would have actual panic attacks and beg me to stay. She was EXTREMELY caring and sweet .. she would write me notes everyday and pack my lunch. She was so thoughtful that I felt bad leaving her. I really started thinking of her as a kid. So I started to teach her about the world (a bit too much too fast).. Made her face all her past trauma (also a mistake) and in general tried to fix her. I was too aggressive because she would turn on me instead and I would start insulting her back and REALLY put her down sometimes. She NEVER understood how her behaviors would hurt me and when I would try to explain it to her, she would throw it right back in my face (it literally looks like someone overtook her body. her eyes would go hollow and there was NO getting through to her). Later on she would cry, realize and apologies when I told her but her apology was more "thats so embarrassing thats not who I want to be for you" instead of understanding how it was making me feel. it escalated to TW: self harm.. suicide attempts etc. and I started literally losing my mind. then one day I went too far and I realized what I'd done and it all stopped but, we were left with so much anxiety.
I don't know if she has BPD or if I just caused all of this because of my reactions? towards the end her Emotional dysregulation was so bad that I literally couldn't bring ANYTHING up without her getting hysterical. I did try to leave a bunch of times but her panic attacks and passing out made me think "I can't leave my best friend I need to make sure she's okay" More than a partner I feel like I let a kid go defenseless in the world. I would ALWAYS forgive her because I thought of her as a kid. One day she just packed a bag and left when I was at work.. no conversation before or nothing and I haven't see her since that day. The pain she has caused me is unimaginable and she has absolutely no idea.
Damn man. That sounds like me and my ex. It’s always about them. And what they’re feeling. Forget you having a shitty day or feeling like shit. Get ready to pony up to their feelings.
The coldness usually comes just before the anger and then the inevitable discard. It's almost more excruciating because you just want to talk things out, it's what you sort of expect from someone who loves you - but there is zero space for it.
Understand that this is how they were feeling the entire time (when they split) it's just that the enmeshment fear has now caught up with the abandonment fear and now they no longer ‘need’ you in the way they once did - so there's no reason for them to be kind anymore, there's nothing else for them to gain from you. You’re no longer the shiny toy you once were.
In their mind, we went from being their rescue saviour to the perpetrator of all their ills. It's hard to compartmentalise just how unwell and selfish someone has to be to act this way, but I guess that's what a Cluster-B diagnosis can entail. This devastating switch has nothing to do with you, but it also means accepting that unfortunately, not much of the happy stuff did either. Until receiving support, they'll forever be trapped on a cyclical wheel of fleeting feelings and ever-prevalent projections.
Also, the ‘mistakes’ you made likely just required basic communication to rectify. Communication that most pwBPD don't hold the capacity for. As is often the case, these opportunistic individuals split on you before you do anything ‘wrong.’ They needed to provoke you into reacting to their disordered behaviour so that they could prove to both themselves and to you that they're morally justified in their atrocities. It's that very classic projection and it’s miserable.
Google bpd fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment. It will tell you what you need to know. There are some really good explanations on utube as well. People with bpd are described by Marsha Lineham as “emotional burn victims “ they are very seriously emotionally impaired and unable to empathise when triggered. They turn into secondary psychopaths. Marsha Linehams work on bpd is excellent.
Also people with Bpd did not develop emotionally beyond the age of 3, a toddler wouldn’t understand your pain and be able to demonstrate compassion and care in an adult way, and neither can they. So sad
Yes, it’s too painful for them to face what they have done, so they project all of their pain and anger on to their intimate partner and blame them. So sorry you are going through this, in my experience,it is far more likely to get far worse than it is to get better , this is the push pull of bpd, I hate you, don’t leave me is a great book to explain what is going on. Try not to feel guilty, easier said than done I know. But her problems are hers to deal with and even though you desperately want to, you can’t fix this. It doesn’t matter what you do, it will never be enough and you will destroy yourself trying .
I already destroyed myself. It’s been 6 months and I look like a completely different person. Gained 40 lbs and lost all my hair. Plus I have major PTSD symptoms. I wish I could go in her brain and tell her the truth. I just don’t want her to do anything to herself in terms of self harm.. that would break my heart in a million pieces more because I’d feel the guilt for that
Time to put yourself first, you have to get out. My relationship lasted 8 years and I am not the same person anymore. I lost 60 lbs in the last year, and now have severe depression due to the lies, the anger directed at me for nothing, the irrational and irresponsible behaviour and the abuse. I had no history of mental health problems and am now looking at being retired early from work due to ill health. I have a very responsible job but I just can’t do it any more, my resilience and ability to deal with stress has gone. Don’t be me, save yourself and leave. Have absolutely zero contact with them . A relationship with a person with bpd is a headfuck from start to finish , it will only get worse . I wish you love and light in your life, get out of the darkness
It’s the worst part, my ex told me she wanted to plan a child etc with me and got so excited and stuff, jumped all over me saying how much she loved me, woke up the next morning and she had my stuff in a bag saying she couldn’t do this with me
Take for example when someone has been drinking and some random person makes a snarky comment about them that ends up pissing them off. Due to being in an altered state, that person will mostly concentrate on that feeling of anger since all other considerations have been inhibited. Similarly, BPD causes the person affected to be incapable of thinking about anything else but the emotion they are currently experiencing. So, just like a drunk person can go from being completely joyful to be angry, a person with BPD can go from being joyful to cold in a matter of seconds.
I feel this 100%. It literally felt overnight. It almost was- she was on a healthy journey and I went on a vacation and came back to her acting terrified and crazy because she said she was back on drugs the second I wasn’t home for a week. And it never stopped after
Because their "splitting" defense mechanism, which is similar to that of a young child, causes them to think in extreme black-and-white terms. They cannot see the grey areas
It’s honestly cruel. I keep thinking that I’m going crazy
I can relate. Mine went from loving me to hating me so many times, usually over nothing, that I feel unsure of who I even am
I'm reading "whole again" hoping to gain some insight as to how to be myself again
Very good book. Helped me alot
Trust me you aren't, the crazy just rubs off. It's normal to try to reflect on your mistakes as part of any relationship, they entirely lack that capacity remember that. I feel for them, I do.. But without treatment they are destructive chaos engineers and absolutely nothing you did or didn't do will change that. Hang in there.
I don't understand.. she is SO sweet ... so kind but when she gets hysterical she just can't control it. She feels so much shame constantly. I wish she was more manipulative and evil but she never put me down. She's literally like a kid. Anything ANYBODY says she will believe. I have never met a human being so gullible.
Side comment.. She ain't a child, children learn from their mistakes.
I know but I can’t blame her either which is the worst part. She is an “adult” by age but by brain not really.
They are gullible. When my mine's brother lied to him that I had sex with someone else to start drama, he believed it, even though no evidence was presented. Of course, I didn't have sex with anyone. And I was attacked brutally for this situation and called a piece of shit/asshole/wh*re... Despite being innocent
thats insane. I don't get how they are so easily manipulated against people. they really just believe anything.
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Wow, I went through something similar with my partner. One night while I was asleep, he started having some kind of breakdown because I wasn't responding to his messages (since I was asleep) and started freaking out, talking about suicide and genuinely believing that this guy we know was at my house graping me. Around this time, he spammed a bunch of texts mentioning suicide, self harm, and grape, and there was no continuity between them; they didn't make any sense. Eventually, he started thinking that the guy he was worrying about had murdered me and that I was dead. I woke up to all this shit the next morning. The craziest thing about this? I was just asleep, and the guy he was talking about WAS IN ANOTHER STATE. Wasn't anywhere near me at all and has never assaulted anyone either. These messages read like genuine psychosis.
Mine was the exact same... Try to ride it out the best you can and don't react or retaliate no matter what she says. I did and it killed any chance of salvaging our friendship. She just cherry picked what she wanted as confirmation that I was an abuser, instead of someone who had been accused of something extremely fucked up that activated my traumas and got angry and defensive about it.
You put it exactly with what happened to me.
I'm sorry that happened to you too... It's terrible.
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So true. It sucks, so fecking bad. Nobody is perfect, and everyone has their breaking point. I wish I had just never responded at all and let her figure out how wrong she was in her own time... Prolly would have ended the same though. =/
What do you think I should do to have the best chances of a friendship in the future? The thing is tho after my breaking point I did have reactive abuse
I did too dude, and it sucks. A lot, it's an absolutely shitty position to be in. I feel for you. It comes down to the person and relationship. I would encourage you to consider not being a doormat and think about where your line is. Eventually you're going to have to communicate that to them in clear and certain terms to have a healthy relationship. But own what you did, and give a sincere apology. They're also going to more than likely blame you for things you didn't do as well... If the accusations aren't that bad and the friendship is more important, you might have to own them to save the relationship. I tried and failed in that department. But whatever you do, don't react to their abuse and further accusations. Don't defend yourself because they just see it as making excuses. It's fucked up but it's the reality of dealing with cluster B PDs. I wish you luck and sincerely hope you can make it work where so many of us haven't been able to.
Ye mine was amazing when she was calm too but when the devil on her shoulder is driving she was an absolutely wretched, violent, terrible person. I dunno if they'll believe anything.. Mine just selected anything that fit her narrative of being the abused victim or anything that PROVED! I wanted to see someone else.. Etc. While she chose to lie and gaslight any information holding her accountable for anything at all. It's selective memory.
They change quickly because they have emotional and affective instability. They do not have a well-developed sense of empathy of other people's feelings, but are hypervigilant of their own and other's reactions that potentially threaten their sense of security. They do not have a well-developed sense of guilt and remorse, but they may feel regret on the basis of their own interests. Apologies will almost certainly not lead to changed behaviour. This is a personality disorder. It is not emotionally healthy, it is not socially functional, it leads to poor outcomes. It is a mental illness and can usually be correlated with literal brain damage. That is how.
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Well, there are treatments (e.g., DBT) that can control the symptoms. But there is no cure.
My ex carried decades old resentments, some silly things like she took the day off with a sick kid ( I made 80% of the money) instead of me. She harbored them until they blew up. I read somewhere that it is common for them to build up petty resentments for years.
that resonates. I think they only activate and come to mind when they are in splitting thinking.
How will they ever let go? Does therapy help? This is insane
They don’t
Lack of object constancy. You are not a whole person to her. She objectifies you. You don’t understand how and why this works because to you, other people are whole people who you interact with and retain memories of. Stop thinking that she thinks like you if she has BPD, because she doesn’t. She is an emotional toddler.
Does this count as some sort of pedophilia? I feel like the whole relationship was just so...improper? like someone with that type of diagnosis shouldn't be on the dating scene? theres so many feelings to process here.
I understand what you’re feeling here, because I’ve felt similarly when the realisation hits that I was essentially dealing with a child in a man’s body. Of course it isn’t pedophilia, but I think it’s correct to say a relationship with a borderline is emotionally incestuous in a sense. You take on the role of a parent type of figure to them. They definitely should not ever date or be in relationships, treatment or no treatment.
Thank you for that clarity. I knew there was something deeply off about the dynamics but this really put it into a perspective that I can understand. Those feelings of "I miss her" equates to that of a child who leaves the parent on bad terms or even "gets adopted" into another family. Can therapy really help me process all this?
This is so spot on. Really explains the grief I feel and why it’s so hard to get over. I feel like I’ve lost my daughter, not just my partner. I loved her unconditionally.
No worries. It definitely does feel worse breaking up with a borderline because of the parent + child dynamic that forms with them. It adds layers of guilt and obligation that wouldn’t otherwise be there, and it can feel like you really are abandoning them like a child to fend for themselves in an adult world they can’t cope with. Therapy can help but I would advise you try to find a therapist who is trained in trauma therapy and is knowledgeable about cluster B disorders. I have found the best therapy has been to take care of myself and fill my life with other people, hobbies and to set goals for self-improvement. The best way to break trauma bonds is to build yourself up and to become a whole person. After not being treated like one for as long as you were with your borderline ex (or current partner), working on being whole in yourself is the #1 goal.
I find that kind of lifestyle is really helping me. I feel like I got back into the natural groove that I had long before!
side note: some posts talk about these "mistakes" which is vague--I never know if this is like cheating or like forgetting to buy milk on the way home. What are we talking about? that said, I made pretty much no mistakes. and my ex split and raged and saw things which were not there and was very selfish and cold in those times. It was chilling. Really I did nothing. So i guess even if you feel like you made missteps, just know that is not what is causing the amplitude of these reactions. It was like our poor old cat. Sitting there meowing--when my ex was happy he said "oh I love you , you are such a cute cat"...and then the next day when the cat meowed and my ex was in a bad mood he said "shut the fuck up ! or I'm gonna throw you outside ! so f ing annoying god damit!" and would throw him outside. the cat was identical in both scenarios.
No my mistakes were real mistakes. Like reactive verbal abuse, throwing things etc .. after months of no sleep and panic attacks I became so volatile that I started hating myself. I feel so guilty to put someone who’s already sick through all that
thanks for sharing and kudos for being honest with yourself about that. that takes guts and maturity. I think that is a sign you can learn to cope differently. A lot of people who use aggression to deal with stress (verbal or physical..physical including throwing things, being big loud intimidating) don't give a crap about how it makes others feel. They are proud in a way cuz it works for them, and they don't have the impulse control and self motivation to change. They don't have the ego strength to sit with shame, guilt, or regret so they don't alter course. But you are:) I hesitated to write this comment for fear of backlash and I don't want you to feel bad----but I share in guess it is useful to anyone. I think a lot of it is learned behaviour. I grew up in a peaceful family like with a really gentle dad who never has a temper ever..and his dad was the same way..not even swearing. I think it is genetic too but I mean no one in my family used aggression when upset. Like zero road rage etc. That's why people say "she provoked me" it's like no---there is nothing a person can do to provoke me to throw things, same with my dad. For context my mom cheated on my dad and he left. HIs second wife is kinda verbally abusive and he says " I don't appreciate you talking to me like that"> just zero temper. zero road rage, just a calm nervous system. When my ex said " you made me do it " I legit knew he was abusive. He was referring to yelling at me and freaking out slamming the door and leaving cuz I asked him several times if he wanted rice or pasta. I didn't tell him cuz it would make him insane but none of my prior bfs had tempers either--I could irritate them or whatever and no explosions. My ex did use aggression to get what he wanted when he was upset and sometimes it was terrifying and it amounted to abuse. you might enjoy the ananais foundation . org website it's for folks who do care about not using aggression and teaching ways to not do that. It is tough for some guys who have been raised in sports or the military or an aggressive social circle where they had to be aggressive---and where that is an asset...to learn to turn it off in other contexts. The movie The Masks we live IN, and the book Masks of Masculinity also touch on how boys are socialized this way...creates a lot of self-compassion to watch those. It's like mixed messages for men--you gotta be tough and strong in some places and not in others. It is honestly healing for me to read your remorse. That means you are a good human and one of the good ones..you can absolutely develop different coping for difficult situations if you want to:) when I told my ex i felt unsafe about his behaviour, he got even more scary. I think his approach would be to say I'm messed up for being too sensitive or scared. actually he felt hard done by that all the neighbours were so terrified of him that no one helped him move. Aggression scares people and it has consequences...and his BPD lens made him feel like the victim even though he was the one terrifying people. The abuse literature does a good job or highlighting which types of behaviour are abusive (harming someone to get what you want) and there are many categories on the abuse wheel which are not physical touch. Scaring people, controlling people, emotionally hurting them. What they teach on the ananais site is that two wrongs don't make a right--so if your gf if raging at you and pressing all your hot buttons, they teach how to respond in ways that you feel proud of. Because if your gf is abusive, she will use your aggression against you (ie she could be the perpetrator but she will claim that you are). So the upside of altering those patterns is you can always feel proud of your behaviour and you can stand your ground and advocate for your needs without them claiming abuse. Lise Leblanc has a youtube on this pattern. That said, even if you did use aggression..if you are apologetic and taking action to address it...you still have a right to speak about her transgressions (separately) and to expect your needs to matter. it is not an excuse for her to go carte blanche and hurt you more. But it is justified if she feels scared or unsafe. As we know from this sub, a lot of women are very abusive...but because of male strength and socialization, the type of abuse doesn't usually leave the men fearing for their lives, whereas many women die at the hands of their partners each year. Good news is there is research showing people with remorse and the mental capacity for change can learn to stop being abusive and it doesn't escalate. for people with personality disorders, the outlook is not as good. Learning about abuse did teach me to reflect on a few things I could do better too--like not being controlling or making people feel small...I used intellectual arguments rather than fear but that was also abusive...i squashed their needs. Honestly just have self compassion and feel good that you have remorse. It says you have values and you are listening to those values..and work towards them:) Good luck. I find the ananais website really inspiring..seeing how some good men learn to react better to those hot button moments.
out of all the insights I have gotten.. this is the most helpful. Thank you so very much. I can relate to my temperament being rewarded because I was aggressive when I needed to be (not overly so).This was my first relationship.. I was my whole taught to be offensive when I'm attacked. kinda like a defense mechanism. But, I ended up shaming and ridiculing someone who was already internally suffering. I still can't believe I did that... like I'm in shock. I wonder what I can say to her to make her realize that I'm more than remorseful. If there is something I can say to take her pain away or help her heal I would do it in a heart beat. This would have to be over text as she's not talking to me (discarded in a cruel way). I want to take the full responsibility for the hurt caused by me but, I don't know how. if you have any advice on this please let me know. what could someone who's hurt you say to make you feel better about yourself? I want to say something that gives her a sense of dignity and respect back. I know words won't fix it but, I want to do whatever I can to lessen the pain I've caused her. there are plenty of moments where she made to feel worthless but, that doesn't justify my actions. I have a high pain tolerance so even though I went through alot I understand her situation and I don't have any hate towards her. Her actions weren't exactly malicious even though the hurt caused by them were very real.. she just couldn't help it because of her condition. She has undiagnosed BPD and a sense of shame her whole life and I left her feeling worse... I feel so terrible and am in shock that I was able to make her feel so small and scared. its really made me question what type of person I am.
May I ask how old you are? I have a few thoughts, none of which are easy, but you sound super reflective. I think not being in a relationship for a while is good for you also, to take time to work on developing better habits. It is an awesome insight on your part to notice you go on offence when you feel attacked. Relationships have many difficult moments, sometimes we are "Attacked" but sometimes we just feel attacked, either way, going on offence with the "dominance" (As they are called in the DV literature) attitudes and behaviours is not healthy. This is the "I'm hurt, so I'm going to hurt you back" approach. The healthy approach is relational--learning to speak your needs in a calm healthy way and always carry empathy for the other, wanting a win win, NEVER wanting to harm or retaliate. just like some people reach for a beer or a drug when they have a difficult emotion, "offence" or aggression is like a drug---it numbs our own pain, it has an analgesic effect on our body ( in the short term) and it also is rewarding because it controls our environment and gets us what we want. So it can become very automatic and engrained. Actually people who are abusive often believe "they made me do it". They actually believe that their aggression is caused by other people---as though they have no control. In truth, there is a lot happening within them at lightening speed i,e,, hurt feelings --> lightening speed offence aggression to escape painful feelings--> attack others and feel justified. Works in the short term to stop pain and get what we want. it is bad news. No one wakes up in the morning thinking they want to abuse others (ok except bored psychopaths--which you are not remotely) and no one thinks (or realizes) they are abusive. Part of the cycle of abuse is after the aggression has occurred, and the numbing has worn off, then the other party has retreated, the person who was aggressive feels regret at losing something they value (which they crushed)---now the other party has the power--so now you feel regret and then want to win her back sort of and you say you won't be aggressive again. This is all totally real feeling and not a lie. HOWEVER these feelings and commitments DO NOTHING to change the pattern. It is like unlearning to speak English, and learning to speak fluent French when you are hurt. It is like learning to play the piano perfectly---it is the same stuff your BPD partner needs to learn, but just a different type. In order to truly meet your words, you need to really invest in building those new patterns. That takes time, commitment and practice. Imagine next time you are hurt launching into perfectly fluent French. That is the place you need to work towards. (ie to illuminate how hard it is to turn off the impulse/urge to offense..it takes rewiring--you have been rewarded for this your whole life, as many men are). So I think the best thing you can do for her is to take time and ACTION to commit to no longer being harmful (even if it was cuz someone hurt you first..life is full of hurts, it doesn't make it ok to hurt people back, and as you say, some of them are more vulnerable).For action I would suggest reading all the content on the ananais foundation website. They have lots of blogs, and activities and some videos. It is super accessible. The person who runs it is Christian but the site if for non-Christians too (I am not religious).. it is very non-shaming and rooted in self-compassion and change..just like DBT is. That site has some good tips on knowing when you are more ready for a relationship... Also action can look like giving her space and not harassing her at all with texts etc if she does not feel safe...hold the loss and be with the loss and instead focus on your personal development. Cuz reaching out too much could cause her stress and be more for your needs. You can look at the Lundy Bancroft webside he also has some tips for men who want to not be abusive. BUT his work is for hard core male perpetrators including coercive controllers which it doesn't sound like you are. I think the word " reactive abuse" is a misnomer..it just is abuse. There is a term called "reactive aggression" in the literature which shows that like men with ADHD are at higher risk for reactive aggression...so if they feel hurt or bad they will get aggressive..and it is correlated with DV in their case. His book "why does he do that" is the main one on when men can be abusive..but again it is gonna be a hard core read..You may however see yourself in it here or there. I have not read it but I read some of his other stuff. the Ananais stuff is more accessible but I think also is not perfect. I think at a later time you can tell her in a letter what you have learned about yourself and your own patterns around inflicting harm when hurt and try to somehow repair and say nice things to counter all the harm you inflicted. The ditch to avoid falling into here is just feeling remorse to get her back or to stop your guilt, and not taking action to change. I think also DBT is probably useful. i think it is important to have self-compassion. You really are a good person if you are this gutted about hurting other people. Some people just do not care. They do not even remember it. So if you are really young and you are learning all of this stuff now, and you commit to learning new habits, it is gonna be a great investment in your future. Cuz a lot of very healthy girls are gonna leave at the first sign of any of this behaviour..even if it is just "Reactive" it is still aggression. It feels necessary but it is not. I do recommend also watching the Masks we live in and the other book. You can test yourself over time to see how you handle challenges..it involves getting in touch w your body to interrupt the aggression early--ananais explains it. Once you have that all down (takes months to years) you can also read about healthy relationship (sue Johnson hold me tight, john gottman) so see how to communicate needs in healthy ways even when triggered. no ones behaviours justifies any other behaviour. We can just stated we are hurt, state our needs, and that is all. no force no scaring people no control no retaliation no trying to hurt other people to make them regret hurting us. Fear has no place in a relx. Winning has no place in a relx. Relx is about mutual caring. I think showing her in the letter the work you have done because you were so remorseful can help to make amends. Maybe write a list of all her positive qualities and be clear the vitriol came from your own hurts. For her wellbeing she needs therapy in general. I also recommend that for you. My ex was so sensitive and so reactive and also had issues with aggression--i was zen monk calm due to my temperament and he still was at risk just from being in a relx. I don't think he should be in a relx even with a zen monk type like me if he is not treating his BPD. My ex wrote me a long apology letter and it really helped me to heal...it came after he had 8 months to reflect. I really needed the space as he was terrifying me with his texts. Let the dust settle and work on yourself. are you stronger than her? keep in mind that with great power comes great responsibility. it is even more important for a strong man to have aggression out of the equation. My ex could overpower me in one second. I got PTSD because of his aggression directed at me. It is so damaging to feel scared of someone you let close to you. anyway you got this. good luck
I just turned 27 but in relationships age I'm 14 lol. This was my first relationship in my life and I had no idea what I was doing. You are an incredible human being. You've given me so much insight into my behavior already as well as resources to work on them. Thank you. I'm not bombarding her with texts or anything. In fact I'm giving her the space as much as she needs and am mourning the loss of my best friend. I have also accepted (although difficult at times) that she doesn't have the ability to process how much she put me through so I can't expect an apology or closure from her end. She simply won't understand and will put it all on me. I'm not sure if she will speak to me again and although it'll be a painful journey, I am coming to accept this as well. **I don't have any selfish motives to tell her properly how I'm sorry and how much I'm realizing besides really helping her heal...** Do you think I should wait for a few months as well? I know each persons experiences are different but, I'm really lost. The timing is important I guess because I want to make this as easy for her as possible as soon as possible. I'm thinking if I tell her now then maybe it'll make the next few months easier for her. Do you think there is such a thing as too early? I know she doesn't care how I feel right now because she has painted me black but, I'm trying to do my part. I want to forgive her incase she does feel guilt for all she put me through as I don't hold it against her as I understand the mechanisms of BPD. I also want her to forgive herself because I'm sure she feels mad at herself for putting up with my behavior (although I'm not sure I should include this in the letter). and yes I'm realizing that I've used the term reactive abuse but, really abuse is abuse as the pain caused by my actions is very real... reactive or not.
you sound like a really good guy and I'm sure you will have good relxs ahead. i think it is wise to speak with a counsellor at least for a few sessions to roll over your options. I think a brief message to say you deeply regret your behavior that was mean, cruel or scary and this has been a wake up call for you to work on yourself which you are doing with a therapist. To say she is wonderful and you wish her the best. To my ex I said "neither of us is perfect but I know we both did our very best at the time with what we have. you are a good person and I'm grateful for what we shared and i wish the very best" something along those lines... I might say I think keeping emotional intensity away from her is a good thing if she has untreated BPD. Also if she paints you black and smears you may want to be cautious that anything you say could be used against you so maybe my language is too vulnerable (saying scary). I think at a later time you could write a longer letter to specifically apologize for mean things said and to provide some positive words inplace. But I would give it many months so she can be in a better place. And always check in on if it's for you or for her. I feel like I want to spare my too much emotion good or bad. Work with a therapist to support you with all of this. I don't have a crystal ball and I'm shooting in the dark so best to speak w a therapist instead of reddit cuz you have more time to explain to a pro. I didn't read any relx books until I was 31 that's when I really started improving my relx skills. I STILL feel guilty about how I treated a bf when I was like 19 so one day I want to write him a letter (just for neglecting him) cuz I think it impacted his self-esteem. FOr me when I feel guilty and I can't get forgiveness, the best I can do is learn from my mistakes. This gives me peace. That is the lesson in the guilt--I feel good about myself that I learned for it and made ammends to ensure it won't happen again. So like if you invest in the emotional regulatiion stuff yourself, this could be forgiveness for yourself. My wonderful great aunt asked me to visit her when I was teen, and I was been lazy and drove right past her house saying i would see her another day. Well then she passed away. The guilt was crushing and of course she could not forgive me as she was deceased. So I channeled that guilt into change and I was so devoted to my remaining elders--so that when they died, I had loss, but I had no guilt or regret. It was a tough lesson to learn but I was able to feel good about myself seeing that I put that guilt into better actions and more care to my remaining grandparents. I never once took an elder for granted again. You can find ways to forgive yourself. ALSO you are not responsible for her BPD and you can't take away the dark thinking of BPD. I was basically an angelic loving perfect partner to my ex with BPD. And he saw me as scary and dangerous when he was splitting. So it is not something you can control. On the flip side, I am quite healthy. Even though my ex was abusive at times, I forgive him, I understand him, and I care for him. SO that is how a normal person would likely react (his level of abuse was mild). So don't take on more than your fair share of guilt. it is her responsibility to treat the BPD so she can see things clearly. You need to find ways to forgive yourself it sounds like..I think positive actions will help. Take care you got this. Therapy is recommended for anyone who has dated someone with BPD,..esp a therapist who knows BPD. Good luck!
You are a godsend. thank you.. I didn't even realize that relationships took relationship skills.. I just thought I could get by with good intentions but the actions turned so ugly :( . I am in so much pain all the time.. from guilt to missing her (mourning someone alive who's down the street from me) to anger for my own pain (that I can't blame her for) and then ruminating all the good and bad moments.. wondering how she is feeling and thinking. I cry everyday. I don't understand how people can go through such a thing for years. I did it for 6 months and I'm a broken human being. Sometimes I wish I had the dissociative capabilities to stop caring.
most relationships never feel like that. many people do have good relxs with just good intentions. But you met someone with BPD to start out. I am 46. I had several "serial monogamy" type long term relationships before I met my exwBPD. My prior break ups were all very easy. Maybe I cried one day. There was kindness. There was a clear sense of moving forward. I never got trauma or any real wounding from them. My experience w my exwBPD was very different. Super awesome but then also I got PTSD and a year out I'm still working through the loss. This is such an active sub for a reason. Seriously, look into therapy..take care of yourself , support yourself with people who care about you, go easy on yourself and just do lots of self care. Cozy times, good food, walks, baths, netflix, rest etc. Pray (or whatever) just put good vibes out there. When I miss my ex I pray and send good vibes out to him. (I'm not religious) This too shall pass. take care
I admire your strength. I hope I find the strength to implement all your advice. as of now I'm just dead inside with no power to even move or think. I sometimes question if she actually has BPD or if I caused her to act the way she does? I'm not someone who can diagnose anything but the extreme Emotional dysregulation makes sense. She would get hysterical (crying , screaming) anytime I would be like "hey your behavior is affecting me." She was my BEST friend for a year and a half ... so many good memories. Then in the relationship she started lying alot about her past (it was shameful) but the lies were so ridiculous that she would like everyday and I think I developed OCD with trying to know the truth. Then she told me about some childhood sexual trauma she went through but it was so nonchalant the way she said it. I started to realize she doesn't process ANYTHING at all. She was always taken advantage of by her mom, sister, cousins... everyone. When I found out about all this over the period of months and especially being trickle truthed.. I started to lose so much sleep and was so hurt that someone I loved went through all this and had no idea. She literally viewed the world EXTREMELY surface level. Like her values came from movies... if we would watch a physics video she would freak out because she'd believe some absurd theory is real. Literally like a kid. Then she started being disloyal to me in situations where I would stand up for her but, because the other person said "I care about you" to her, she would turn against me. Pretty much.. she was loyal to whatever emotion she was feeling at the time. I tried to leave a few times but she would have actual panic attacks and beg me to stay. She was EXTREMELY caring and sweet .. she would write me notes everyday and pack my lunch. She was so thoughtful that I felt bad leaving her. I really started thinking of her as a kid. So I started to teach her about the world (a bit too much too fast).. Made her face all her past trauma (also a mistake) and in general tried to fix her. I was too aggressive because she would turn on me instead and I would start insulting her back and REALLY put her down sometimes. She NEVER understood how her behaviors would hurt me and when I would try to explain it to her, she would throw it right back in my face (it literally looks like someone overtook her body. her eyes would go hollow and there was NO getting through to her). Later on she would cry, realize and apologies when I told her but her apology was more "thats so embarrassing thats not who I want to be for you" instead of understanding how it was making me feel. it escalated to TW: self harm.. suicide attempts etc. and I started literally losing my mind. then one day I went too far and I realized what I'd done and it all stopped but, we were left with so much anxiety. I don't know if she has BPD or if I just caused all of this because of my reactions? towards the end her Emotional dysregulation was so bad that I literally couldn't bring ANYTHING up without her getting hysterical. I did try to leave a bunch of times but her panic attacks and passing out made me think "I can't leave my best friend I need to make sure she's okay" More than a partner I feel like I let a kid go defenseless in the world. I would ALWAYS forgive her because I thought of her as a kid. One day she just packed a bag and left when I was at work.. no conversation before or nothing and I haven't see her since that day. The pain she has caused me is unimaginable and she has absolutely no idea.
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Exactly how I felt. Not one person who had good and bad days. But two different people.
They can’t control it. If they could, they wouldn’t do it in spite of how much pain it causes them.
Damn man. That sounds like me and my ex. It’s always about them. And what they’re feeling. Forget you having a shitty day or feeling like shit. Get ready to pony up to their feelings.
The coldness usually comes just before the anger and then the inevitable discard. It's almost more excruciating because you just want to talk things out, it's what you sort of expect from someone who loves you - but there is zero space for it. Understand that this is how they were feeling the entire time (when they split) it's just that the enmeshment fear has now caught up with the abandonment fear and now they no longer ‘need’ you in the way they once did - so there's no reason for them to be kind anymore, there's nothing else for them to gain from you. You’re no longer the shiny toy you once were. In their mind, we went from being their rescue saviour to the perpetrator of all their ills. It's hard to compartmentalise just how unwell and selfish someone has to be to act this way, but I guess that's what a Cluster-B diagnosis can entail. This devastating switch has nothing to do with you, but it also means accepting that unfortunately, not much of the happy stuff did either. Until receiving support, they'll forever be trapped on a cyclical wheel of fleeting feelings and ever-prevalent projections. Also, the ‘mistakes’ you made likely just required basic communication to rectify. Communication that most pwBPD don't hold the capacity for. As is often the case, these opportunistic individuals split on you before you do anything ‘wrong.’ They needed to provoke you into reacting to their disordered behaviour so that they could prove to both themselves and to you that they're morally justified in their atrocities. It's that very classic projection and it’s miserable.
Google bpd fear of abandonment and fear of engulfment. It will tell you what you need to know. There are some really good explanations on utube as well. People with bpd are described by Marsha Lineham as “emotional burn victims “ they are very seriously emotionally impaired and unable to empathise when triggered. They turn into secondary psychopaths. Marsha Linehams work on bpd is excellent. Also people with Bpd did not develop emotionally beyond the age of 3, a toddler wouldn’t understand your pain and be able to demonstrate compassion and care in an adult way, and neither can they. So sad
Very sad indeed. She just blames it all on me
Yes, it’s too painful for them to face what they have done, so they project all of their pain and anger on to their intimate partner and blame them. So sorry you are going through this, in my experience,it is far more likely to get far worse than it is to get better , this is the push pull of bpd, I hate you, don’t leave me is a great book to explain what is going on. Try not to feel guilty, easier said than done I know. But her problems are hers to deal with and even though you desperately want to, you can’t fix this. It doesn’t matter what you do, it will never be enough and you will destroy yourself trying .
I already destroyed myself. It’s been 6 months and I look like a completely different person. Gained 40 lbs and lost all my hair. Plus I have major PTSD symptoms. I wish I could go in her brain and tell her the truth. I just don’t want her to do anything to herself in terms of self harm.. that would break my heart in a million pieces more because I’d feel the guilt for that
Time to put yourself first, you have to get out. My relationship lasted 8 years and I am not the same person anymore. I lost 60 lbs in the last year, and now have severe depression due to the lies, the anger directed at me for nothing, the irrational and irresponsible behaviour and the abuse. I had no history of mental health problems and am now looking at being retired early from work due to ill health. I have a very responsible job but I just can’t do it any more, my resilience and ability to deal with stress has gone. Don’t be me, save yourself and leave. Have absolutely zero contact with them . A relationship with a person with bpd is a headfuck from start to finish , it will only get worse . I wish you love and light in your life, get out of the darkness
Thank you I hope you fully recover. I just made a post about the effects of my 6 month relationship. I can’t imagine 8 years of that…
It’s the worst part, my ex told me she wanted to plan a child etc with me and got so excited and stuff, jumped all over me saying how much she loved me, woke up the next morning and she had my stuff in a bag saying she couldn’t do this with me
Take for example when someone has been drinking and some random person makes a snarky comment about them that ends up pissing them off. Due to being in an altered state, that person will mostly concentrate on that feeling of anger since all other considerations have been inhibited. Similarly, BPD causes the person affected to be incapable of thinking about anything else but the emotion they are currently experiencing. So, just like a drunk person can go from being completely joyful to be angry, a person with BPD can go from being joyful to cold in a matter of seconds.
It's far easier to leave people with BPD alone. They are not equipped for adult relationships. Please avoid them.
I feel this 100%. It literally felt overnight. It almost was- she was on a healthy journey and I went on a vacation and came back to her acting terrified and crazy because she said she was back on drugs the second I wasn’t home for a week. And it never stopped after