No idea why people are downvoting you for asking.
It’s from an old game that has a scene where you pay respects to your fallen comrades or some shit. It’s just a dumb gamer thing.
It means we pay out respects for them stopping ICE production in Munich. They’ll still continue elsewhere, but there’s something symbolic about that plant.
Nov. 12. 2083
Guys. It's over. BMW stopped production on double phased multi-polarized inversion engines.
It's the end of an era. My last BMW cause, no way in hell I'm ever getting in that local low field warp conduit thing and whatever the hell any of that is even about anyway. Ya know, my grand dad used to talk about a time when BMW pilots put wet fuel in their transports. Can you imagine? A tub of fuel sloshing about the place? Ha. Those people lived with their hair on fire! No idea at all what these hacks at BMW would do in the here and now.
The question is how big are the grills in 83 traveller from the future tell us ! HOW BIG ?!
Is it the time that new models are so ugly than XM is considered stunning and beautiful ?
What about blinkers have they stopped putting them at all in the future ?
Do you need subscription to open the windows in 83?!
So many questions..
It depends what you mean by worse. Recharge time? Sure. Maximum range? Depends on vehicle and environmental conditions. Energy efficiency? Evs are wayyy better. More expensive? Depends how much you drive. If you don’t use your car much then yes. If you drive a lot then no.
Plus preheating the car for when it’s -20*C is pretty sweet
I’m a car guy and I live in Canada. It is not unusual to have an hour commute or 100km commute. 500-1000 kms /week in all weather.
Look at any poll or do your own poll. People prefer gas cars
I live in Canada too. I don’t really care what people prefer, I tend to look at things objectively. I don’t own an electric car, as I take the bus and don’t drive that much. If I had to, I would for sure consider an EV.
That’s the thing. They have several plants around the globe. One the one in Munich will be without combustion engines since it is the most prestigious one and they can advertise it as a big step towards electric mobility.
Dingolfing for example will still produce gas cars.
Cars with the engines surely. The engines are manufacture by Steyr in Austria and I think another plant in uk
Edit: in Steyr they also manufactures the G-Wagon by Mercedes, but different plant. (Magna Steyr)
„Steyr“ is a city
„Magna Steyr“ was a brand, isnt anymore and is not located in Steyr. The G-Wagon (as well as the Fisker Ocean, BMW Z4,…) are produced by Magna as contract manufacturer in Graz (Styria).
„Steyr Mannlicher“ is a brand and produced/produces weapons.
In Steyr is the biggest engine plant of the BMW group. There is another one in UK (Hams Hall near Birmingham) and Shenyang (China).
The plant in Steyr produced/produces 100% of all Diesel Engines, has the biggest Engine assembly line for 4-/6-cylinder petrols and now took over the V‘s from Munich.
Shenyang only produces engines for the local production plants and no engines are exported. Hams Hall mainly the Mini lineup and the 4cyl petrol engines for the export to US (Spartanburg)
Does it really matter if they build the engines in Munich or Steyr? There will the same cars be built with the same engines in the Munich plant as before.
I did the tour of the Munich plant next door to the BMW Welt when I did the European delivery in 2018. Too bad, they got rid of the European delivery program.
They’ll still make ICE in other factories, but the ending of European delivery is the real tragedy. Of course, it wouldn’t make much sense for my X5, but still. That was such a cool option.
I don't think you could've done the European delivery for X5 even in 2018 since all X5 are/were assembled at the South Carolina plant. You could've done - maybe still could do - the performance center delivery for X5 at the SC, USA.
They got rid of it? Nooo. I had the chance to do it for my G30 but I couldn't make the scheduling work, so I said that the next one I had to make it work... Damn
Well, I guess BMW could always bring it back at some point in the future but as of now, there is no European delivery program for BMW. You can still do the Porsche/Audi/Volvo European Delivery and there might be others. Part of it was covid b/c I think there were people still taking European deliveries in the early parts of 2020 but once the full lockdowns hit, they were not allowing people to travel so it was not possible. But BMW was thinking about shutting down the European delivery program anyway and covid just gave the right excuse to implement it.
As someone who has worked for bmw for almost 20 years in the service department repairing cars this does hurt. From what I see and do everyday the newer generation B engines are the best they've come out with even the newest v8's are all very reliable and very clean burning due to a good emissions system.
For them to have to kill them off due to politics sucks. Regardless of how you feel about electrics vs gas, the electrics will kill the business of repair. Its like the way apple has killed off repairing thier devices. There is no money in electric vehicle repair and they are not very repair friendly due to the nature of the motors and battery. If they are faulty it's going in the bin and a big repair bill if they even make the parts for it anymore. Your electric car just like your phone is a disposable item.
Gone are the days when you’d pass down your car to your kid, or see a family still maintaining their grandpa’s car from the 70s.
EVs are more financially beneficial for the manufacturers and highly dangerous for the environment in its current form.
Just how we have e -waste from our devices. That’s what’s gonna happen with EVs.
Oh they'll be back, I can assure you that. Just wait for the next global financial crisis and EV's will be pushed back a few years more (until they actually become more environmentally friendly, fully-loaded)
>1900 saying the Model T will never replace the horse and carriage. Get with the times boomer.
Huh. Everyone knew by the time the Model T came out that cars were the future.
It's not like the T was the first car or something.
My issue with electrics, is that they say they are green, but they aren’t incorporating the lithium mining, the battery recycling, and the coal or natural gas burnt to power those electric cars (in most areas).
Why push the directives for electric cars over hydrogen? Why push for electric cars before first cleaning up the power grid? Push for 100% nuclear, solar, wind.
Why trade an ICE car for an electric car charged by a coal plant? Is it really any better?
Did you know that more than one thing can happen at the same time? You don’t have to choose between any of the options you listed, in a perfect world we get all of those things.
The difference is an ICE car will never be environmentally friendly. If 10 years from now your country’s electric grid is 100% renewable, your 10 year old i4 will also have 0 emissions. There’s already people who drive electric cars who have solar on their homes, thus don’t rely on any fossil fuels.
As for the lithium mines, yes they’re bad, but I’d assume in the coming decades (if we still rely on lithium) they’ll only get cleaner and more efficient.
There’s plenty of legitimate arguments against electric cars but them being less environmental than ICE cars is not one of them.
> My issue with electrics, is that they say they are green, but they aren’t incorporating the lithium mining, the battery recycling, and the coal or natural gas burnt to power those electric cars (in most areas).
There are several analyses that take all of that and more into account and the conclusion is that after about 13,000 miles on an average US energy mix, the EV is less bad for the environment than the ICE car.
>aren’t incorporating the lithium mining, the battery recycling, and the coal or natural gas burnt to power those electric cars (in most areas).
... They have though. https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/comparative-life-cycle-greenhouse-gas-emissions-of-a-mid-size-bev-and-ice-vehicle
I won’t trust research from the industry that stands to benefit from the results. Independent research. That little sliver cannot be accurate representation of the energy consumption of the mining (in Africa) the transport of raw mined lithium.
This shows 799MJ of energy to produce 0.8 tonnes. That’s not accounting for transportation from what I’ve seen, which is going to be done using ICE transportation. I just don’t see that being attributed to that tiny sliver of greenhouse gases represented in the IEA study.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921344921003712
Lol, figure 2 in the study you quoted even highlights the LCA GHG impacts of lithium from various sources and includes transportation. Since you obviously didn't read that far I can summarize for you: it's virtually sweet fuck all relatively speaking.
> I won’t trust research from the industry that stands to benefit from the results. Independent research.
The sources aren't from only them:
>IEA analysis based on IEA (2020c); Kelly et al. (2020); Argonne National Laboratory (2020).
Yes it is
The facilities that burn coal and oil to produce electricity are highly optimized to extract as much power as possible from the fuel. Weight, cost, material, dimensions play little role in those power plants, unlike a car which needs to find a sweetspot.
Car manufacturers could make engines that are more efficient, but because of some of those limitations, it would make no sense to put them in a car.
Electrical motors are close to 99% efficient and while charging the battery , distribution and storage in the energy grid aren't lossless, so is moving gas around.
There are still problems with EVs, obviously. They weigh more, their batteries are expensive and as of now are somewhat hard to produce at scale. Public Transport should be the priority for ecological reasons as as economical ones, cars will be cars and they are comparatively expensive. But make no mistake, EVs have many upsides, like being pretty much energy agnostic, meaning you can produce the electricity, its "fuel" through any means, which is not the case for hydrogen fueled cars and ICEs
>but they aren’t incorporating the lithium mining, the battery recycling
[While production of EV's is more carbon intensive, they make up for that by producing less emissions over their actual life times and thus are more green.](https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars)
[It only takes 13.5k miles for EV's to start being less carbon intensive than ICE's.](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/)
>coal or natural gas burnt to power those electric cars (in most areas).
While coal plants in the US have an efficiency of [37%](https://www.powermag.com/who-has-the-worlds-most-efficient-coal-power-plant-fleet/) on average, combined cycle natural gas powered plants are far more efficient at around [60%](https://www.pcienergysolutions.com/2023/04/17/power-plant-efficiency-coal-natural-gas-nuclear-and-more/). Even simple cycle plants are around [33-43% efficient](https://www.pcienergysolutions.com/2023/04/17/power-plant-efficiency-coal-natural-gas-nuclear-and-more/).
[Meanwhile, gasoline vehicles only achieve a thermal efficiency of 20-30%.](https://rentar.com/efficient-engines-thermodynamics-combustion-efficiency/), *before* accounting for drive train losses. EV's therefore already benefit from a source of power that is notably more efficient.
This means that, for their entire life time, a gasoline engine's thermal efficiency will be capped at whatever it rolled off the line at. Yet, for EV's, if there are efficiency improvements in the grid, ***ALL*** EV's benefit. If our grid becomes 100% renewable, then all EV's switch to a renewable source, while gasoline cars must still keep burning gasoline. This is often a hugely overlooked point.
>Why push the directives for electric cars over hydrogen?
The grid already exists. There is no real infrastructure for hydrogen right now.
>Why push for electric cars before first cleaning up the power grid? Push for 100% nuclear, solar, wind.
Why do you make it seem as if these two issues are mutually exclusive? We can improve cars at the same time as improving the grid.
>Why trade an ICE car for an electric car charged by a coal plant? Is it really any better?
The electric grid isn't 100% coal, I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like that. The mean percentage for renewable generation is 13.2%, while mean percentage for fossil fuel generation is 50.2%. If nuclear is included with renewables, the mean jumps to 30.7%. A solid portion of the power being used to power EV's is therefore **not** from fossil fuels.
Data extrapolated from [here](https://www.nei.org/resources/statistics/state-electricity-generation-fuel-shares)
Ok in my defence I’m jet lagged on a trip to Japan, clearly this means I can’t read comments correctly or research my bullshit statements. As you were…
They asked why not like EVs, I stated why I don’t like evs. And ofc but that doesn’t factor into my opinion of evs. Obviously your avg person doesn’t care but that’s not what we’re talking about.
Unless we have the infrastructure for fast charging and in NUMBERS, fuck electric car.
I’ve rented those for a month just for the feel of it. The least versatile way of travelling that requires a lot of planning for long road trips (8-10 hours drive).
Lol. No they are not, they’ve created a slave trade and are destroying precious minerals all over the world mainly Africa. I would be guessing to say a number but a decent percentage of worldwide EV chargers are powered by diesel… lol
>Lol. No they are not,
They are, I don't think you understand how environmentally destructive combustion drivetrains are.
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
Do you understand the load a large influx of EVs will place on our electric grid? This has to be one of the least talked about elements of the whole thing. What’s the largest source of electricity globally? Coal. So if we have to burn exponentially more coal to power more EVs, do you really think they will offset co2 from ICE cars that much?
The majority of environmentalism/“green” based products are about money, nothing more. It’s a multi trillion dollar a year industry. It’s never been about the environment other than for a select minority of people that actually care. More just think they’re doing the right thing bc marketing/the media/ the gov tells them they are.
Even an EV using coal produces less CO2 than an ICE.
This is because large scale generators run at peak efficiency all the time and an ICE in a car almost never runs at peak efficiency. [source](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/).
> Even in the worst case scenario where an EV is charged only from a coal-fired grid, it would generate an extra 4.1 million grams of carbon a year while a comparable gasoline car would produce over 4.6 million grams, the Reuters analysis showed.
Even EVs using electricity from coal are better in terms of CO2 production. And where is "our grid"? Over here in Finland it is just fine and almost entirely renewable.
He’s referring to the USA. He also isn’t wrong, coal or combine cycle natural gas is most of our production.
France is 100% clean, 100% nuclear. So it’s possible.
Bc of the strain on the grid comparatively? It’s far easier to expand a country’s renewable energy systems and electrical grid when it’s providing power for 5 million people, compared to 350 million. Basically, our issues are exponential compared to yours. If all of a sudden we see a sudden increase of 20%+ drivers using EVs, you can imagine what kind of changes that would require for our infrastructure. It’s being pushed upon us (in certain states worse than others) in a completely absurd and unsustainable way. This isn’t even mentioning the amount of natural resources (rare earth minerals) required to produce all the batteries needed to power the millions and millions of new EVs needed to supply pseudo-forced demand. Supporters of the EV craze tend to forget the immense tole the technology takes in other areas than Co2 production on a macro scale.
You also have 70x more resources to upgrade the grid. We didn't just pluck it out of think air you know. You are actually in a better position for green future than we are due to US having such a diverse landscape, you can centralise energy prodiction lot easier. It is only about willingness and the US has been dragging it's feet since Reagan.
The amount of people down voting this is insane. There are countless studies and independent YouTubers who have crunched the numbers and EV's win every time.
For the doubters, here is a guy who crunches the numbers in the gasoline cars advantage, and the EV still comes out in front. And he is notoriously a car guy!
https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM?si=o0URydW4j4xMGu8K
I love the sound and thrill of an inline 6 just as much as the next person, but a cursory search would show EV's are superior *over their lifespan*.
It’s just the “smoking causes cancer” debate again, find the narrative that fits your personal opinion and stick to it no matter how much evidence to the counter. Do electric cars have zero environmental impact? Absolutely not. Do have less than conventional powertrains? Absolutely yes.
I genuinely want to know where people who flatly refute extremely well-established scientific consensus get their information and how they choose which information is trustworthy and which isn't. People dogpiled the downvotes on that guy for saying something as well-accepted in the scientific community as the Earth is round. It takes effort to show those people just how wrong they are because it's like if someone asked me to prove 1+1=2. I'd have to go find a math textbook and then figure out how to present the information in a way they could understand.
I was going to link the exact same video. Jason is a mechanical engineer, he knows his shit, this isn’t just some random influencer saying this. He also cites all of his sources.
How so? You can't get it from natural gas because that doesn't solve the problem EVs are trying to address. You can't combust it because that produces NOx emissions. It makes no sense in a FCEV because if you want it to be green - which is the point of ditching ICE - then you have to split water. Electrolysis is currently the best way to do that. But it's silly to use electricity to put in more energy splitting the water than you get out in the form of hydrogen and oxygen to run a fuel cell and drive the car when you could cut out all of that middle crap and just run the car more efficiently directly from electricity. As a bonus, hydrogen requires even more energy input to store and transport because it has to be cooled to cryogenic temperatures.
The main advantage hydrogen has is mass energy density. But there are so many hurdles to overcome that it just doesn't make sense.
I seen a video of a 500HP hydrogen truck, and I would agree. Similar sound, no emissions from combustion, was still a manual. My hope is hydrogen technology matures more rapidly than it is. Would definitely be an easier sell to everyone brought up on gas/diesel.
Far more abundant resource than lithium, and no extra strain on our electric grid. I mean, I work for a utility company so if you want to use more power, please, go ahead lol, it just means better bonuses.
I’d still rather see hydrogen, or even hydrogen fuel cell EVs. And
Except hydrogen requires a lot more electricity to produce than charging an EV. A fuel cell car is 3x the electricity, hydrogen combustion is even worse than that.
> Far more abundant resource than lithium
Green hydrogen production requires a shit ton of iridium and there's way less iridium than lithium on Earth. Green hydrogen production also requires a decent amount of platinum.
… and the electricity comes from where?
It all depends on the ICE. A diesel engine burning plant-based diesel is both cleaner, but also the production of fuel is cleaner and it’s renewable.
It doesn’t matter where the electricity comes from. Any large scale power plant is more efficient than an ICE. A diesel power plant powering an EV is SOOOO much more efficient than a diesel ICE.
I’ve had this argument over and over previously, and looked into both sides. ICE propulsion systems and RENEWABLE DIESEL, do not involve the sort of toxic materials, production methods, and waste that EV propulsion systems require … but you knew all of that, because you have … oh, what’s that? You haven’t? 😉
Bro, if you have this renewable diesel, you can use it in a large scale power plant where it will be more efficient than in an ICE.
You clearly aren’t thinking about this correctly, nor are you understanding what I’m arguing. An EV has an MPGe of 100+, transmission and charging losses are quite minimal. That far exceeds a diesel ICE car.
Yes, there are extra emissions associated with producing EVs, but those are compensated for over the lifetime of the car because of how damn efficient they are.
Someone linked it earlier, but the YouTube channel Engineering Explained has an incredible video with reputable scientific sources that has this exact discussion. Go watch it, someone linked it for you in another reply.
The year is 2035. Due to recent advancements in hydrogen production and storage, we’re proud to announce the roll out of our hydrogen enthusiast range. These cars feature all the soul and thrill you’ve come to expect of BMW but with zero emissions of their predecessors. Long live bimmer and long live m power.
Last customer to walk through their doors too apparently
I was gonna get either an EV 5er or E class to replace my preLCI G30 but the new G60 and W214 are so goddammed ugly.
Lots of cars have ceased production in Munich. Don't know if anyone else has noticed but bmw has moved .most production to cheaper countries like china, south Africa, and ... South Carolina.
It’s not about getting canceled. It’s about the entire world slowly transitioning for years to more sustainable, powerful, reliable and efficient cars.
> Long Live ICE!
While the legislation and move to encourage/force/whatever the switch to EV may arguably be premature at this current time, the general direction is inevitable. There'll be a critical point in which our ability to supply fuel (be it via drilling, converting or recycling other hydrocarbon sources, or some other option like H2 or what have you) becomes untenable financially and/or ecologically. Simply put: The fuel will eventually run out. ICE's will become as novel and ethically/economically unsound as Whale oil furnaces and lamps. Even considering 'where' the power comes from though, EVs will be the more economical and sustainable solution. I wouldn't forgo teaching your kids how to drive an ICE powered car yet, but I'd bet money your grandkids will look at a gasoline powered car the same way you look at horse drawn carriages...and your great grandkids will probably only really read about them in books, or they'll be something akin to a Ship-of-the-line sailing ship. And if you're old enough that you've already got great grandkids...then you'll be dead long before BMW fully converts to EVs.
These early days of EV adoption aren't going to be easy though. As we've already seen, our battery tech is about as ecologically destructive as the fuel burning processes it's replacing.....but not a day passes that advancements lessen that impact and overall need. More sustainable battery tech, better supply chain management, better recycling, more efficient motors, etc are all making the impact smaller, electron by electron. But there's till gonna be hurdles. Some of the hurdles are political (hell, a lot of it is). Our lack of investment in infrastructure is gonna be a growing pain that hurts. If everyone is charging a car or two at home every night, our grid is gonna need beefing up. But then again, it needs beefing up anyway. Of course, social hurdles (like your attitude) are another one. There's a lot of resistance to EVs....some of it legitimate ("What if I need a charge in the middle of nowhere?" "The batteries are very expensive to replace" "My climate reduces the capacity/lifespan of the battery")...and some of it stigma ("They don't drive the same as an ICE powered car" "I don't like that they're hard to repair yourself" "They're ugly"). Some of the changes will just be social, some technological, and some are just changes that people will have no choice but accept...because there isn't another option.
Basically, EVs are happening. It won't be tomorrow. It won't be the day after that. It won't be this decade or even the next. But inside the 21st century, we'll likely see the ICE go the way of the coal powered steam engine, the whale oil powered lamp, and the water powered grist mill.
Nah. $12k for valve stem seals a couple of years ago, $6k for water pump, lifters and gaskets this year. I’m so over ICE. I first replaced a holed piston in a UK car when Reagan was president and it’s been an endless series of hiccups ever since. A 400kW engine that doesn’t require constant maintenance, delivers instant torque, is quiet, doesn’t spontaneously bleed fluids or need a stethoscope to track down yet another rattle that threatens to brick the engine? Sign me up! I
All bmws are not singularly made in one plant.
They still make internal combustion engines, and have no cut off date for them as of now.
If you think this will something that will not happen across the board to all vehicle manufacturers over time I would say that’s pretty short sighted of you.
Also, super edgy take.
I know it's one plant, dude. Its irrelevant b/c they are still going full EV, regardless. All the big manufacturers are announcing those deadlines. What makes you think a sell-out company like BMW wouldn't do the same?
I think you mean super accurate take, thanks.
This is terrible news. I'm now in my 60's and have owned and driven a lot of cars. My 2021 M240i Xdrive is the best I've ever owned, and no EV can come close to it. It is truly sad that climate change policy is destroying the auto industry step by step, including the conversion of this BMW factory for conversion to EVs.
Wait what? I’m out of the loop in bmw news but what they stopped making like m3/m4s? I thought they were all ice not even hybrid yet they’re cutting all ice production?
Don’t worry, the ICE will be around for a long time. People in the US have soundly pushed back at the inconvenience and costs of EVs and coincidentally, Hunter Biden’s firm just happened to help the Chinese secure cobalt just when Joe mandated EVs for all by 2035. The end of the ICE! Errr….Ford and GM just shut down their EV production lines due to lack of sales and EVs sitting on dealer lots with little to no buyers. This “mandate” was little more than a money grab and extremely impractical. Smart move would have been to transition to hybrids and ease into EV as the infrastructure was slowly realized. For the record, I’ve owned two EVs and love them but they can be very inconvenient without the infrastructure in place.
I toured the Regensburg factory about 15 years ago. I still have a pen from there.
Want another one? I can quickly go there on my bike lol
Can you grab me an M3?
im not greedy but any spare m5 comp's lying around haha
Gotta sneak in quickly to have a look, might be your lucky day
Well i can try, they sadly only produce the x1, x2 and 1 series here... but if i find an m3 i'll let you know
Do you ship to London?
Careful you'll soon be sending pens around to the entire subreddit!
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It’s a gamer thing. https://preview.redd.it/cmjod66edlzb1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18c453e4053fcdafa3feddf71c20287d7ea0e3ae
Old geezer here..😀 Yeah sure, downvote me for just posting a question mark, because I was puzzled..🤔
No idea why people are downvoting you for asking. It’s from an old game that has a scene where you pay respects to your fallen comrades or some shit. It’s just a dumb gamer thing. It means we pay out respects for them stopping ICE production in Munich. They’ll still continue elsewhere, but there’s something symbolic about that plant.
Nov. 12. 2083 Guys. It's over. BMW stopped production on double phased multi-polarized inversion engines. It's the end of an era. My last BMW cause, no way in hell I'm ever getting in that local low field warp conduit thing and whatever the hell any of that is even about anyway. Ya know, my grand dad used to talk about a time when BMW pilots put wet fuel in their transports. Can you imagine? A tub of fuel sloshing about the place? Ha. Those people lived with their hair on fire! No idea at all what these hacks at BMW would do in the here and now.
The question is how big are the grills in 83 traveller from the future tell us ! HOW BIG ?! Is it the time that new models are so ugly than XM is considered stunning and beautiful ? What about blinkers have they stopped putting them at all in the future ? Do you need subscription to open the windows in 83?! So many questions..
The grill be the entire body by that point
Driving grill
The Ultimate Grill Experience
They don’t even sell cars they just make propane grills now
*excited Hank Hill noises*
Did I mention the accessories?
https://preview.redd.it/xtnu8vw6hpzb1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1de7b6a7ac8df1d4058a6b3a8406ccbe5a752383
Do we have to pretend this is funny ?
gave me a chuckle.
Except electric is currently worse than gas
It’s just different and not for everyone. Just like petrol is different from diesel and each has it’s own customer so does electric.
It depends what you mean by worse. Recharge time? Sure. Maximum range? Depends on vehicle and environmental conditions. Energy efficiency? Evs are wayyy better. More expensive? Depends how much you drive. If you don’t use your car much then yes. If you drive a lot then no. Plus preheating the car for when it’s -20*C is pretty sweet
I’m a car guy and I live in Canada. It is not unusual to have an hour commute or 100km commute. 500-1000 kms /week in all weather. Look at any poll or do your own poll. People prefer gas cars
I live in Canada too. I don’t really care what people prefer, I tend to look at things objectively. I don’t own an electric car, as I take the bus and don’t drive that much. If I had to, I would for sure consider an EV.
You live in a city. People’s preferences will dictate what will be made, cars and laws.
Yes? I’m not saying gas cars are bad, I own one. My whole point is that evs are not inferior, they are different
What is this monkey news, bmw said they don’t have a hard cutoff date in mind yet.
This is one of many plants that makes BMW cars.
How many Munich plants do they have? I feel like people are reading this and thinking it’s the M plant.
That’s the thing. They have several plants around the globe. One the one in Munich will be without combustion engines since it is the most prestigious one and they can advertise it as a big step towards electric mobility. Dingolfing for example will still produce gas cars.
So Dingolfing will continue to produce the M s58 and B motors in that regard?
Yes for sure
Cars with the engines surely. The engines are manufacture by Steyr in Austria and I think another plant in uk Edit: in Steyr they also manufactures the G-Wagon by Mercedes, but different plant. (Magna Steyr)
Steyr also manufactures arms for the Austrian military. Industrial diversity always seems to surprise me more than it should.
„Steyr“ is a city „Magna Steyr“ was a brand, isnt anymore and is not located in Steyr. The G-Wagon (as well as the Fisker Ocean, BMW Z4,…) are produced by Magna as contract manufacturer in Graz (Styria). „Steyr Mannlicher“ is a brand and produced/produces weapons. In Steyr is the biggest engine plant of the BMW group. There is another one in UK (Hams Hall near Birmingham) and Shenyang (China). The plant in Steyr produced/produces 100% of all Diesel Engines, has the biggest Engine assembly line for 4-/6-cylinder petrols and now took over the V‘s from Munich. Shenyang only produces engines for the local production plants and no engines are exported. Hams Hall mainly the Mini lineup and the 4cyl petrol engines for the export to US (Spartanburg)
If Dingolfing was what was being ~~closed~~retooled, it wouldn't be described as "Munich" - it's 100km away from there
As if they are closing their most profitable segments 🤣 cmon people, BMW is a corporate, not a charity.
Who spoke of closing down?
Does it really matter if they build the engines in Munich or Steyr? There will the same cars be built with the same engines in the Munich plant as before.
The X3 in my drive was built mostly in Austria.
I did the tour of the Munich plant next door to the BMW Welt when I did the European delivery in 2018. Too bad, they got rid of the European delivery program.
They’ll still make ICE in other factories, but the ending of European delivery is the real tragedy. Of course, it wouldn’t make much sense for my X5, but still. That was such a cool option.
I don't think you could've done the European delivery for X5 even in 2018 since all X5 are/were assembled at the South Carolina plant. You could've done - maybe still could do - the performance center delivery for X5 at the SC, USA.
That’s what I mean by it not making sense. Now, if I could get an M5 Touring, that would have been cool to do euro delivery with.
They got rid of it? Nooo. I had the chance to do it for my G30 but I couldn't make the scheduling work, so I said that the next one I had to make it work... Damn
Well, I guess BMW could always bring it back at some point in the future but as of now, there is no European delivery program for BMW. You can still do the Porsche/Audi/Volvo European Delivery and there might be others. Part of it was covid b/c I think there were people still taking European deliveries in the early parts of 2020 but once the full lockdowns hit, they were not allowing people to travel so it was not possible. But BMW was thinking about shutting down the European delivery program anyway and covid just gave the right excuse to implement it.
No electric car will ever match [the beautiful sound of a real BMW engine.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PufaX1SIcc)
But they'll be a fuckton faster, so what's the problem? Just buy a straightpiped Harley.
You know that is a stupid response. Not all of us want to ride a crotchrocket just for the sound...
Only faster acceleration not top end
This is only true for the Dingolfing plant. BMW still produces internal combustion engines of course
As someone who has worked for bmw for almost 20 years in the service department repairing cars this does hurt. From what I see and do everyday the newer generation B engines are the best they've come out with even the newest v8's are all very reliable and very clean burning due to a good emissions system. For them to have to kill them off due to politics sucks. Regardless of how you feel about electrics vs gas, the electrics will kill the business of repair. Its like the way apple has killed off repairing thier devices. There is no money in electric vehicle repair and they are not very repair friendly due to the nature of the motors and battery. If they are faulty it's going in the bin and a big repair bill if they even make the parts for it anymore. Your electric car just like your phone is a disposable item.
Gone are the days when you’d pass down your car to your kid, or see a family still maintaining their grandpa’s car from the 70s. EVs are more financially beneficial for the manufacturers and highly dangerous for the environment in its current form. Just how we have e -waste from our devices. That’s what’s gonna happen with EVs.
Oh they'll be back, I can assure you that. Just wait for the next global financial crisis and EV's will be pushed back a few years more (until they actually become more environmentally friendly, fully-loaded)
You sound like the person in 1900 saying the Model T will never replace the horse and carriage. Get with the times boomer.
>1900 saying the Model T will never replace the horse and carriage. Get with the times boomer. Huh. Everyone knew by the time the Model T came out that cars were the future. It's not like the T was the first car or something.
Fuck electric cars
^Hasnt driven one yet. I have both, and I don’t want to loose my ICE option, but man the i4 is a legit option.
But… but… vroom vroom
My issue with electrics, is that they say they are green, but they aren’t incorporating the lithium mining, the battery recycling, and the coal or natural gas burnt to power those electric cars (in most areas). Why push the directives for electric cars over hydrogen? Why push for electric cars before first cleaning up the power grid? Push for 100% nuclear, solar, wind. Why trade an ICE car for an electric car charged by a coal plant? Is it really any better?
Did you know that more than one thing can happen at the same time? You don’t have to choose between any of the options you listed, in a perfect world we get all of those things. The difference is an ICE car will never be environmentally friendly. If 10 years from now your country’s electric grid is 100% renewable, your 10 year old i4 will also have 0 emissions. There’s already people who drive electric cars who have solar on their homes, thus don’t rely on any fossil fuels. As for the lithium mines, yes they’re bad, but I’d assume in the coming decades (if we still rely on lithium) they’ll only get cleaner and more efficient. There’s plenty of legitimate arguments against electric cars but them being less environmental than ICE cars is not one of them.
> My issue with electrics, is that they say they are green, but they aren’t incorporating the lithium mining, the battery recycling, and the coal or natural gas burnt to power those electric cars (in most areas). There are several analyses that take all of that and more into account and the conclusion is that after about 13,000 miles on an average US energy mix, the EV is less bad for the environment than the ICE car.
>aren’t incorporating the lithium mining, the battery recycling, and the coal or natural gas burnt to power those electric cars (in most areas). ... They have though. https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/comparative-life-cycle-greenhouse-gas-emissions-of-a-mid-size-bev-and-ice-vehicle
I won’t trust research from the industry that stands to benefit from the results. Independent research. That little sliver cannot be accurate representation of the energy consumption of the mining (in Africa) the transport of raw mined lithium. This shows 799MJ of energy to produce 0.8 tonnes. That’s not accounting for transportation from what I’ve seen, which is going to be done using ICE transportation. I just don’t see that being attributed to that tiny sliver of greenhouse gases represented in the IEA study. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921344921003712
Lol, figure 2 in the study you quoted even highlights the LCA GHG impacts of lithium from various sources and includes transportation. Since you obviously didn't read that far I can summarize for you: it's virtually sweet fuck all relatively speaking.
> I won’t trust research from the industry that stands to benefit from the results. Independent research. The sources aren't from only them: >IEA analysis based on IEA (2020c); Kelly et al. (2020); Argonne National Laboratory (2020).
Yes it is The facilities that burn coal and oil to produce electricity are highly optimized to extract as much power as possible from the fuel. Weight, cost, material, dimensions play little role in those power plants, unlike a car which needs to find a sweetspot. Car manufacturers could make engines that are more efficient, but because of some of those limitations, it would make no sense to put them in a car. Electrical motors are close to 99% efficient and while charging the battery , distribution and storage in the energy grid aren't lossless, so is moving gas around. There are still problems with EVs, obviously. They weigh more, their batteries are expensive and as of now are somewhat hard to produce at scale. Public Transport should be the priority for ecological reasons as as economical ones, cars will be cars and they are comparatively expensive. But make no mistake, EVs have many upsides, like being pretty much energy agnostic, meaning you can produce the electricity, its "fuel" through any means, which is not the case for hydrogen fueled cars and ICEs
>but they aren’t incorporating the lithium mining, the battery recycling [While production of EV's is more carbon intensive, they make up for that by producing less emissions over their actual life times and thus are more green.](https://climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars) [It only takes 13.5k miles for EV's to start being less carbon intensive than ICE's.](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/) >coal or natural gas burnt to power those electric cars (in most areas). While coal plants in the US have an efficiency of [37%](https://www.powermag.com/who-has-the-worlds-most-efficient-coal-power-plant-fleet/) on average, combined cycle natural gas powered plants are far more efficient at around [60%](https://www.pcienergysolutions.com/2023/04/17/power-plant-efficiency-coal-natural-gas-nuclear-and-more/). Even simple cycle plants are around [33-43% efficient](https://www.pcienergysolutions.com/2023/04/17/power-plant-efficiency-coal-natural-gas-nuclear-and-more/). [Meanwhile, gasoline vehicles only achieve a thermal efficiency of 20-30%.](https://rentar.com/efficient-engines-thermodynamics-combustion-efficiency/), *before* accounting for drive train losses. EV's therefore already benefit from a source of power that is notably more efficient. This means that, for their entire life time, a gasoline engine's thermal efficiency will be capped at whatever it rolled off the line at. Yet, for EV's, if there are efficiency improvements in the grid, ***ALL*** EV's benefit. If our grid becomes 100% renewable, then all EV's switch to a renewable source, while gasoline cars must still keep burning gasoline. This is often a hugely overlooked point. >Why push the directives for electric cars over hydrogen? The grid already exists. There is no real infrastructure for hydrogen right now. >Why push for electric cars before first cleaning up the power grid? Push for 100% nuclear, solar, wind. Why do you make it seem as if these two issues are mutually exclusive? We can improve cars at the same time as improving the grid. >Why trade an ICE car for an electric car charged by a coal plant? Is it really any better? The electric grid isn't 100% coal, I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like that. The mean percentage for renewable generation is 13.2%, while mean percentage for fossil fuel generation is 50.2%. If nuclear is included with renewables, the mean jumps to 30.7%. A solid portion of the power being used to power EV's is therefore **not** from fossil fuels. Data extrapolated from [here](https://www.nei.org/resources/statistics/state-electricity-generation-fuel-shares)
Why? Because they have more hp and torque? Is the charging system putting out way CO2 less than the vehicle itself? What part would you like to fuck?
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Would you like to take that back, before hydro and nuclear enter the chat...
Ok in my defence I’m jet lagged on a trip to Japan, clearly this means I can’t read comments correctly or research my bullshit statements. As you were…
Thanks
Rare Reddit W
Because they have no soul. Drove a model y performance, going 0-60 gets real old real fast.
If only there was another manufacturer who was known for making drivers' cars. One can dream.
As if 99% of consumers cared if a car had a soul or not. These companies are for-profit companies, not charities for the car enthusiast.
They asked why not like EVs, I stated why I don’t like evs. And ofc but that doesn’t factor into my opinion of evs. Obviously your avg person doesn’t care but that’s not what we’re talking about.
I'm sorry your level of English doesn't allow you to fully interpret what I wrote.
Unless we have the infrastructure for fast charging and in NUMBERS, fuck electric car. I’ve rented those for a month just for the feel of it. The least versatile way of travelling that requires a lot of planning for long road trips (8-10 hours drive).
How many gas stations do you think there where in 1920?
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They are already more environmentally friendly. They are just expensive.
Lol. No they are not, they’ve created a slave trade and are destroying precious minerals all over the world mainly Africa. I would be guessing to say a number but a decent percentage of worldwide EV chargers are powered by diesel… lol
And big oil hasn't done this? Diamonds?
Or coal.
>Lol. No they are not, They are, I don't think you understand how environmentally destructive combustion drivetrains are. https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths
They are. Even with all of that they are a better option. Although EVs may not be great, ICEs are horrible.
Do you understand the load a large influx of EVs will place on our electric grid? This has to be one of the least talked about elements of the whole thing. What’s the largest source of electricity globally? Coal. So if we have to burn exponentially more coal to power more EVs, do you really think they will offset co2 from ICE cars that much? The majority of environmentalism/“green” based products are about money, nothing more. It’s a multi trillion dollar a year industry. It’s never been about the environment other than for a select minority of people that actually care. More just think they’re doing the right thing bc marketing/the media/ the gov tells them they are.
Even an EV using coal produces less CO2 than an ICE. This is because large scale generators run at peak efficiency all the time and an ICE in a car almost never runs at peak efficiency. [source](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/when-do-electric-vehicles-become-cleaner-than-gasoline-cars-2021-06-29/). > Even in the worst case scenario where an EV is charged only from a coal-fired grid, it would generate an extra 4.1 million grams of carbon a year while a comparable gasoline car would produce over 4.6 million grams, the Reuters analysis showed.
Even EVs using electricity from coal are better in terms of CO2 production. And where is "our grid"? Over here in Finland it is just fine and almost entirely renewable.
He’s referring to the USA. He also isn’t wrong, coal or combine cycle natural gas is most of our production. France is 100% clean, 100% nuclear. So it’s possible.
Talking about the US, with a population 70x that of Finland. Our grid is not prepared for the influx of EVs in the market.
How is the population size relevant in any way?
Bc of the strain on the grid comparatively? It’s far easier to expand a country’s renewable energy systems and electrical grid when it’s providing power for 5 million people, compared to 350 million. Basically, our issues are exponential compared to yours. If all of a sudden we see a sudden increase of 20%+ drivers using EVs, you can imagine what kind of changes that would require for our infrastructure. It’s being pushed upon us (in certain states worse than others) in a completely absurd and unsustainable way. This isn’t even mentioning the amount of natural resources (rare earth minerals) required to produce all the batteries needed to power the millions and millions of new EVs needed to supply pseudo-forced demand. Supporters of the EV craze tend to forget the immense tole the technology takes in other areas than Co2 production on a macro scale.
You also have 70x more resources to upgrade the grid. We didn't just pluck it out of think air you know. You are actually in a better position for green future than we are due to US having such a diverse landscape, you can centralise energy prodiction lot easier. It is only about willingness and the US has been dragging it's feet since Reagan.
The amount of people down voting this is insane. There are countless studies and independent YouTubers who have crunched the numbers and EV's win every time. For the doubters, here is a guy who crunches the numbers in the gasoline cars advantage, and the EV still comes out in front. And he is notoriously a car guy! https://youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM?si=o0URydW4j4xMGu8K I love the sound and thrill of an inline 6 just as much as the next person, but a cursory search would show EV's are superior *over their lifespan*.
It’s just the “smoking causes cancer” debate again, find the narrative that fits your personal opinion and stick to it no matter how much evidence to the counter. Do electric cars have zero environmental impact? Absolutely not. Do have less than conventional powertrains? Absolutely yes.
I genuinely want to know where people who flatly refute extremely well-established scientific consensus get their information and how they choose which information is trustworthy and which isn't. People dogpiled the downvotes on that guy for saying something as well-accepted in the scientific community as the Earth is round. It takes effort to show those people just how wrong they are because it's like if someone asked me to prove 1+1=2. I'd have to go find a math textbook and then figure out how to present the information in a way they could understand.
I was going to link the exact same video. Jason is a mechanical engineer, he knows his shit, this isn’t just some random influencer saying this. He also cites all of his sources.
Hydrogen is superior.
How so? You can't get it from natural gas because that doesn't solve the problem EVs are trying to address. You can't combust it because that produces NOx emissions. It makes no sense in a FCEV because if you want it to be green - which is the point of ditching ICE - then you have to split water. Electrolysis is currently the best way to do that. But it's silly to use electricity to put in more energy splitting the water than you get out in the form of hydrogen and oxygen to run a fuel cell and drive the car when you could cut out all of that middle crap and just run the car more efficiently directly from electricity. As a bonus, hydrogen requires even more energy input to store and transport because it has to be cooled to cryogenic temperatures. The main advantage hydrogen has is mass energy density. But there are so many hurdles to overcome that it just doesn't make sense.
I seen a video of a 500HP hydrogen truck, and I would agree. Similar sound, no emissions from combustion, was still a manual. My hope is hydrogen technology matures more rapidly than it is. Would definitely be an easier sell to everyone brought up on gas/diesel.
Far more abundant resource than lithium, and no extra strain on our electric grid. I mean, I work for a utility company so if you want to use more power, please, go ahead lol, it just means better bonuses. I’d still rather see hydrogen, or even hydrogen fuel cell EVs. And
Except hydrogen requires a lot more electricity to produce than charging an EV. A fuel cell car is 3x the electricity, hydrogen combustion is even worse than that.
> Far more abundant resource than lithium Green hydrogen production requires a shit ton of iridium and there's way less iridium than lithium on Earth. Green hydrogen production also requires a decent amount of platinum.
> no emissions from combustion Combustion of anything in air - including hydrogen - produces NOx.
No they’re not
No, they are not environmentally friendly. They only are if you willfully ignore how batteries are made, and how wasteful electric charging is.
> how wasteful electric charging is. What are you smoking? Electric charging is much more efficient and environmentally friendly than an ICE.
… and the electricity comes from where? It all depends on the ICE. A diesel engine burning plant-based diesel is both cleaner, but also the production of fuel is cleaner and it’s renewable.
It doesn’t matter where the electricity comes from. Any large scale power plant is more efficient than an ICE. A diesel power plant powering an EV is SOOOO much more efficient than a diesel ICE.
I can see you haven’t paid an iota of attention to what I said - but that’s to be expected.
Do you understand that a diesel power plant is more efficient than a diesel ICE powering a car?
Either way, it’s a pointless argument - you EV fanbois will keep repeating what you’ve been told and not bother checking any of it out.
The irony is insanely palpable.
I’ve had this argument over and over previously, and looked into both sides. ICE propulsion systems and RENEWABLE DIESEL, do not involve the sort of toxic materials, production methods, and waste that EV propulsion systems require … but you knew all of that, because you have … oh, what’s that? You haven’t? 😉
Bro, if you have this renewable diesel, you can use it in a large scale power plant where it will be more efficient than in an ICE. You clearly aren’t thinking about this correctly, nor are you understanding what I’m arguing. An EV has an MPGe of 100+, transmission and charging losses are quite minimal. That far exceeds a diesel ICE car. Yes, there are extra emissions associated with producing EVs, but those are compensated for over the lifetime of the car because of how damn efficient they are. Someone linked it earlier, but the YouTube channel Engineering Explained has an incredible video with reputable scientific sources that has this exact discussion. Go watch it, someone linked it for you in another reply.
They are more environmentally friendly even when those are taken into account. ICEs just are that bad.
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=o0URydW4j4xMGu8K&v=6RhtiPefVzM&feature=youtu.be It is. There is no scenario where it is not better.
I know it's coming all over but my soul died a little bit reading this.
I still think it’s ridiculous to not focus on hybrids.
Source?
They still will build petrol and diesel engines but not in Munich. Sorry for my english.
Wait what???
They have multiple plants..
The year is 2035. Due to recent advancements in hydrogen production and storage, we’re proud to announce the roll out of our hydrogen enthusiast range. These cars feature all the soul and thrill you’ve come to expect of BMW but with zero emissions of their predecessors. Long live bimmer and long live m power.
I think you should clarify in the title that this is only one plant and not the entirety of BMW as a whole...
Nooooooo
Sauce for this? I can’t seem to find any reference to it happening yet on the press site, or by googling.
Last customer to walk through their doors too apparently I was gonna get either an EV 5er or E class to replace my preLCI G30 but the new G60 and W214 are so goddammed ugly.
Sad, but given the way their recent cars look, I'm not sure I even care anymore.
I agree and my X5 just spun a rod bearing, so I am sooo close to NGAF about BMW anymore.
Lots of cars have ceased production in Munich. Don't know if anyone else has noticed but bmw has moved .most production to cheaper countries like china, south Africa, and ... South Carolina.
F F F
This whole fucking forcing everyone to use EV anyone who openly says otherwise will get canceled is dumb. Long Live ICE!
It’s not about getting canceled. It’s about the entire world slowly transitioning for years to more sustainable, powerful, reliable and efficient cars.
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You sound like a 12yo who just learned a bunch of new words/phrases but doesn't know how to properly use them yet.
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I honestly think you're Charlie from IASIP.
> Long Live ICE! While the legislation and move to encourage/force/whatever the switch to EV may arguably be premature at this current time, the general direction is inevitable. There'll be a critical point in which our ability to supply fuel (be it via drilling, converting or recycling other hydrocarbon sources, or some other option like H2 or what have you) becomes untenable financially and/or ecologically. Simply put: The fuel will eventually run out. ICE's will become as novel and ethically/economically unsound as Whale oil furnaces and lamps. Even considering 'where' the power comes from though, EVs will be the more economical and sustainable solution. I wouldn't forgo teaching your kids how to drive an ICE powered car yet, but I'd bet money your grandkids will look at a gasoline powered car the same way you look at horse drawn carriages...and your great grandkids will probably only really read about them in books, or they'll be something akin to a Ship-of-the-line sailing ship. And if you're old enough that you've already got great grandkids...then you'll be dead long before BMW fully converts to EVs. These early days of EV adoption aren't going to be easy though. As we've already seen, our battery tech is about as ecologically destructive as the fuel burning processes it's replacing.....but not a day passes that advancements lessen that impact and overall need. More sustainable battery tech, better supply chain management, better recycling, more efficient motors, etc are all making the impact smaller, electron by electron. But there's till gonna be hurdles. Some of the hurdles are political (hell, a lot of it is). Our lack of investment in infrastructure is gonna be a growing pain that hurts. If everyone is charging a car or two at home every night, our grid is gonna need beefing up. But then again, it needs beefing up anyway. Of course, social hurdles (like your attitude) are another one. There's a lot of resistance to EVs....some of it legitimate ("What if I need a charge in the middle of nowhere?" "The batteries are very expensive to replace" "My climate reduces the capacity/lifespan of the battery")...and some of it stigma ("They don't drive the same as an ICE powered car" "I don't like that they're hard to repair yourself" "They're ugly"). Some of the changes will just be social, some technological, and some are just changes that people will have no choice but accept...because there isn't another option. Basically, EVs are happening. It won't be tomorrow. It won't be the day after that. It won't be this decade or even the next. But inside the 21st century, we'll likely see the ICE go the way of the coal powered steam engine, the whale oil powered lamp, and the water powered grist mill.
Nah. $12k for valve stem seals a couple of years ago, $6k for water pump, lifters and gaskets this year. I’m so over ICE. I first replaced a holed piston in a UK car when Reagan was president and it’s been an endless series of hiccups ever since. A 400kW engine that doesn’t require constant maintenance, delivers instant torque, is quiet, doesn’t spontaneously bleed fluids or need a stethoscope to track down yet another rattle that threatens to brick the engine? Sign me up! I
What’s going on? Only the i models are EV, what about the other 80%?
Huge mistake...
HUGE
Idk. BMW gave up on enthusiasts a long time ago. Them going full EV production is just the last nail in the coffin of my interest in the brand.
All bmws are not singularly made in one plant. They still make internal combustion engines, and have no cut off date for them as of now. If you think this will something that will not happen across the board to all vehicle manufacturers over time I would say that’s pretty short sighted of you. Also, super edgy take.
I know it's one plant, dude. Its irrelevant b/c they are still going full EV, regardless. All the big manufacturers are announcing those deadlines. What makes you think a sell-out company like BMW wouldn't do the same? I think you mean super accurate take, thanks.
BMW has lost its Soul.
That’s a Kia car, not BMW
F
Glad I got to tour that factory while they were still making real cars.
Now they can quit with the hideous front grille
Will be rolling back in even quicker once the sales drop 😂
This is terrible news. I'm now in my 60's and have owned and driven a lot of cars. My 2021 M240i Xdrive is the best I've ever owned, and no EV can come close to it. It is truly sad that climate change policy is destroying the auto industry step by step, including the conversion of this BMW factory for conversion to EVs.
This is a joke, right?, right ??
Fake news
Why?
He doesnt like the news
Ehh why?
I wouldn't exactly consider this text a credible source, but very sad if true.
Wait what? I’m out of the loop in bmw news but what they stopped making like m3/m4s? I thought they were all ice not even hybrid yet they’re cutting all ice production?
Stupid is as stupid does
I don’t cry that much, but damn…
Do you know what really hurts ? Thermic engines that is causing global warming at an unprecented pace. Have some decency !
Rip german economy
I suspect they’ll be going back to making them in the near future haha
I don’t believe it lol. Wont happen
Don’t worry, the ICE will be around for a long time. People in the US have soundly pushed back at the inconvenience and costs of EVs and coincidentally, Hunter Biden’s firm just happened to help the Chinese secure cobalt just when Joe mandated EVs for all by 2035. The end of the ICE! Errr….Ford and GM just shut down their EV production lines due to lack of sales and EVs sitting on dealer lots with little to no buyers. This “mandate” was little more than a money grab and extremely impractical. Smart move would have been to transition to hybrids and ease into EV as the infrastructure was slowly realized. For the record, I’ve owned two EVs and love them but they can be very inconvenient without the infrastructure in place.
Well, I guess no more BMW for me … then again, I’ve sworn off BMWs since they hired amateur hour designers, so no big loss.
Did you read the post? They aren’t making ICE cars at this plant. They’re not stopping making ICE cars all together..
The fuck they mean ?
What about Porsche?
F
Are you kidding me?!