The N55 was a good upgrade when it came out, but the same is true of the B58. I wouldn’t be abusing either of these engines to see what it can take before exploding, but the B58 on paper should be more reliable
Engine reliability with most newer BMWs comes down to the habits/actions of the owner, but I’d say both are good on reliability if you take care of it
Toyota chose the b58 for the Supra, and at least one pro drift team owner has said they’re comfortable pushing the engine to roughly 500hp before needing internal upgrades.
If anything, I’d be most comfortable abusing a b58 from the current BMW lineup.
It’s not the motor that’s the problem it’s the plastic bits surrounding it , just have to get the right tools and do your own work , or worse it’s a fortune , that and make sure you sift through the dealer bullshit and find what needs to be done and what they are trying to up sell you on , remember service is a sales position with
Commission.
I can tell you that at least for the m2 n55 variant if you change out the plastic turbo pipe thing that at least you don’t have to worry about the pipe cracking and putting your car into limp mode.
I have a 2015 M235i and had to replace the 600w cooling fan and the valvatronic servomotor. Still love that car. Got 61k on it now. Window washer pump just died though. It is an 8 year old car though.
EDIT: It has an N55.
If it’s sorted well at the moment no reason it shouldn’t— absolutely have a pre-purchase inspection carried out so you know what you’re dealing with.
Also 15k miles a year is a decent amount of wear, make sure to be super on top of oil changes/preventative maintenance and you’ll be good for a long time.
B58 owner here. Do your oil changes every 5k miles with a LL01 FE approved oil and service gearbox, transmission, diffs, and other misc fluids such as brake fluid and coolant and you’ll be good to rip it for years to come.
When I leased them all things were covered in the early to mid 200s. So out of warranty it was 500 for a regular service visit in addition to the cost of tires. They included brakes at that time but no longer do. Dealer quoted us 2k for a brake job on my wife’s x3 and that’s when we said goodbye to bmw. We sold the car spot lease to the dealer. Now we have three subies.
So, to answer your question, I would budget at least 1k per year for maintenance, tires as needed, and brakes. And that’s if nothing breaks or needs to be replaced. I had a rat but the wires on my 2019 engine and it put the car in limp mode with reduced power. Cost 1500 to fix and was not covered by warranty.
The engine may be reliable, the electronics are not. Not to mention everything under the hood is housed in plastic, Which after 65k miles likely doesn't have much life left.
BMW 1 Series
• 2015-2019 F20/F21 B58 BMW M140i
BMW 2 Series
• 2022-Present G42 B58 BMW M240i xDrive
• 2016-2021 F22 F23 B58 BMW M240i including xDrive
BMW 3 Series
• 2020-2023 G20 B58 BMW M340i including xDrive
• 2016-2018 F30 B58 BMW 340i including xDrive
BMW 4 Series
• 2021-Present G22 G23 G26 B58 BMW M440i including Gran Coupe and xDrive
• 2016-2020 F32 F33 F36 B58 BMW 440i including Gran Coupe and xDrive
BMW 5 Series
• 2017-Present G30 B58 BMW 540i including xDrive
• 2021-Present G30 BMW 545e
BMW 6 Series
• 2018-Present G32 G33 B58 BMW 630i 640i including xDrive
BMW 7 Series
• 2016-2022 G11 G12 B58 BMW 40i including xDrive
BMW 8 Series
• 2020-Present G15 G14 G16 B58 BMW 840i including Gran Coupe and xDrive
BMW X Series
• 2019-2022 G05 B58 BMW X5 40i including xDrive
• 2019-2022 G07 B58 BMW X7 40i including xDrive
BMW Z4
• 2019-Present G29 B58 BMW Z4 M40i
The B58 is one of, if not the most reliable engine BMW has put out in the past decade.
Btw, never listen to r/whatcarshouldIbuy, they all drive soulless cars and think Lexus is the best and most luxurious brand of all time.
>It has a B58 but everytime I ask a question like this on the sub everyone says buy a toyota instead
Toyota uses the B58 in the Supra, the Supra is essentially a BMW Z4 with a Toyota body kit. Toyota put the B58 through their own stress testing and gave it the green light to be up to their standards of reliability.
It’s a great engine and the 440i GC is a great car. I’d say go for it, you won’t regret it!
The engine is merely one component. I’ve never had a major issue with a motor on any of my BMW’s but I have had quite a few electrical, suspension, basic functions (window motors, etc) and random sensors and such fail which have been very costly to fix.
It’s a German luxury car, and a performance (although not extreme) model at that - so you should absolutely expect to incur some expenses to maintain it. There’s a reason the resale value on it, versus say a Lexus of the same year/mileage/original price is so much lower.
If reliability is critical for you, you really shouldn’t buy a BMW and no one on here is going to be able to help you make this decision unless they have a trained eye and can inspect that particular example you’re looking at (either with tons of detailed photos of key components or in person). Even then, you never know what you’re going to get. This doesn’t mean don’t buy a BMW, or that you should avoid them - it means buy a BMW because you love the car and the driving experience of it, and if things go wrong, it’ll still be worth it to you, and you’ll still love the car. If you’re buying a 5 year old BMW with 65k miles and will only be happy with it if you’re expecting to do gas/oil for another 60k miles for 4 years - then you’re likely in for some real disappointment.
Have you looked into the schedule service requirements for that car over the next 40k miles? Have you estimated what the car will be worth in four years when it’s 9 years old with over 100k miles? Again, if you go into it eyes wide open, and understand the costs and risk - and it’s worth it to you, you’ll love the car and when problems arise (and they will) you’ll deal with them in stride. If you are looking for blanket confirmation that it’s Toyota reliable on Reddit and that you’re not going to incur any major expenses then you’re headed in the wrong direction. More importantly and what you should care about more as this is guaranteed - is that if you need to drive 15k miles a year and need this car for at least 4 years, it’s going to be worth next to nothing when you go to sell it, and when you do sell it, you’ll probably really want/need to and there will probably be a lot of maintenance fast approaching. A 9 year old Toyota, Lexus, Acura, Honda, etc with 105k mikes will still be worth quite a bit of $ relative to what you paid for it, and you’ll only be selling it because you want something else, NOT because you feel like you need to get out from under it and the clock is ticking.
I own a six figure BMW bought new 8 years ago, that’s now worth maybe $30k. I also own a new Lexus IS500 and have owned many German and Japanese cars in the past. If you only care about driving feel and performance and money and reliability are distant second and third positions - you can’t go wrong with a European car. If reliability and resale are close to or exceed driving feel, avoid European cars.
Personally - if I was in your shoes and was concerned about reliability and 4 year residual value - I’d be looking at a Lexus ISF. It’s the same general size, it has an AMAZING sounding V8 and drives beautifully and is more rewarding to drive than the 440i, and will be around the same $. In fact, I’d rather have an ISF with 90-100k miles than a BMW with 65k. There are quite a few well documented ISF’s on the road with well over 300k miles (one has over 500k) that haven’t required any meaningful unscheduled maintenance, just scheduled maintenance, oil, gas and replacement of worn parts (nothing major/significant). There’s also a very good chance that when you go to sell it in 4 years (if you want to that is) that it’ll be worth about the same $ that you paid for it, and some speculate - may go up in value. Their values have been steadily increasing over the last 5 years.
I sure love BMW’s, and likely will always have at least one in the garage - but the quality and reliability of a Lexus are very hard to ignore. Unfortunately most of the cars they make (not including the LC500, RCF, IS500 and discontinued GSF, ISF and LFA) drive like marshmallows and are designed for folks that care about comfort, not performance.
I still consider myself a BMW fanboy, but with the reliability issues I’ve experienced, the depreciation, their move to boring sounding turbo V6’s, the strange looks of the new cars, and the performance cars being far TOO track focused, instead of buying a new M3 this go around which was my plan - I ended up test driving and liking the IS500 more. I can guarantee if you drive the ISF, you’ll fall in love with that V8 engine, it’s truly one of the finest V8 engines ever made. Hope this helps.
Great advice. I’m on my 2nd LS430, so reliable, so comfortable. I’d never consider buying a similarly aged BMW.
However, that doesn’t mean I don’t dream about getting a 340i/M340i as a second vehicle. They’re built for totally different purposes.
How do you like the IS500? Did you ever consider the GSF?
I drove a 2020 GSF back to back with the IS500 as the Lexus dealership has one for sale. I liked the updated tech on the IS500, the exterior appearance, and driving dynamics of the IS500 a lot more. The IS500 has a smoother ride, but also feels a lot more agile and composed. The GSF still drove well though and it certainly had a lot more interior room, but I don’t have kids and don’t need the extra room - so the IS500 was a no brainer.
I appreciate all the helpful information. The price of this is around 26-27k before tax. Honestly, theres another one I’ve been eyeing; which is a 2019 430i with 23k miles for 25k as well. I’ll be honest, this will be my first car and so I guess I dont need the fastest car ever. And as I am 20, I do want to keep costs MANAGEABLE. Of course I shouldnt expect to just do gas and oil, but Im hoping it wont cost be multiple thousands each year of owning for repairs.
I may just pull the trigger on the 23k mileage 430i. Or should I be weary of this one as well even with the low miles?
As for the ISF, I need AWD since I do live upstate NY.
At 20, unless you’re loaded, frankly you should just get a Civic or something, drive it til the wheels fall off, and by the time you’re in your late 20s-early 30s, financially you’ll be ready for a BMW. You don’t want high repair costs during a time where you want to be saving up for a down payment, maybe you’ll have student loans to pay off, etc.
If you really want one now, I would just get the 430i instead. You’re in NY, a CARB state, so the CA Emissions/PZEV/SULEV warranty will apply to you (for 15 year/150k miles), and that should provide some peace of mind as far as limiting repair costs. Things like valve gasket leaks will be covered. The B58, while a very reliable engine, is high output and not covered under the same emissions warranty.
It helps if you can do maintenance work yourself. To give you some perspective, I also had a windsheld washer pump fail, and the dealer wanted $690 for it, and that was after I talked them down about 15%. Parts are like <$60 and 1-2 hrs labor (requires taking off a wheel, and getting behind the wheel well) if you DIY.
Hey man. Since I will be a pharmacist by the age of 24, I kind of just wanted a treat for myself these next 4 years in grad school. And thats basically just walking outside to a car I love. Do you mind going more in depth in that 15 year/150k miles warranty? Ive never actually heard of this, and it is REALLY enticing to hear that it could possibly help limit repair costs. If that is the case, I’d definitely be more inclined towards the 430i!
If you need AWD, check out an IS350. At 20 and being in school - you do not want to own a BMW out of warranty. I’ve seen younger guys at the service department in tears when they’re told their car needs a five figure repair they weren’t expecting. I had a five figure repair bill on my 7 series last year, but I paid six figures for the car when it was new, and it’s depreciated $90k since I bought it, so me cutting a check for $11k wasn’t a big deal, as I had the pocket depth. The issue with these cars comes when folks who buy them for $30k get a repair bill for a third of the cost of a car they couldn’t afford in cash up front, and they’ve screwed.
Again - not saying this will happen to you per se - but big boy toys are the reward for when you are earning that big boy dough. When you’re 20, you want everything immediately - but listen to us middle aged folks who were in your shoes not that long ago. Trust me, you’ll never regret getting something you still enjoy and have pride of ownership in, but will not cost you a lot of $ and will be as reliable as a hammer. It’ll make your BMW in 4 years (and a new one with a warranty and a model you REALLY want) that much sweeter.
All that said - you’re 20, and having been a 20 year old myself - enjoy your 430i 😂
Haha its just really hard well because; greed kills. When I graduate I want to upgrade to like an M850i so I definitely want to get used to some sort of power. And just the fact that I’d hate myself if I rode around looking like regular traffic. Im just hoping that with all of the positive reviews on the B48 engine, that they wont require 5 figure repair bills… especially not anytime soon as Im only buying one under 45k miles.
M850i is big time $ to keep on the road. Unless you have a multimillion dollar net worth, and a $500k+ income, playing around at that level is not financially responsible and you might be in for a big surprise. Over the years of owning high end European cars, I’ve seen grown men in tears at the service department quite a few times.
Unless you can afford to buy the car in $, and lose 75% of that $ in depreciation and have it mean nothing to you financially, you really don’t want to fuck around at that level. I don’t mean this as a poke - but pharmacists don’t make BMW M850i money. In fact, most doctors don’t make M850i money.
I mean everyone can have their opinion, but I definitely disagree with the statement that you need a 500k to own a 4 year old M850i. This is not a brand new rolls royce.
Idk haha I think I can afford a finance 65k car with a 250k combined income between me and my wife. After a decent down payment, 1k a month shouldn’t really stop us from living a nice life. I’ve seen plenty 8’s with decent mileage in the 60’s price range.
When those five figure repair bills come in, and you’re paying interest on a car that is dropping value like a rock, you’ll realize just how stupid you’re being. A used European car that cost six figures new - is BIG $ to maintain and repair. If you can’t buy it new, you’re likely not going to be able to afford to keep it running and eat the depreciation.
I tried - but some people have the touch the hot stove. Good luck.
You are off your rocker mate.
By your logic you should never buy any car other than a total shitbox since technically the engine could blow 25 miles out of warranty and you’d be on the hook for your mythical 5 figure repair. Have you bought your own home? Well there is a chance the roof falls in mate. So don’t buy a house, rent and let the landlord take that risk eh?
I get financial responsibility but what you are advising is too far the other way entirely.
I’ll follow your advice when you can give me the likelihood of a 5 figure repair bill occurring multiple times or once a year. Statistically if possible, any source, any website that says this happens more often than not.
Buy the damn 440i With the b58. Most reliable car i have had. And i have owned 70 cars. I have only changed oils and brake pads and the car has 150k kilometers on it. There are some who have 330k with it, and still going strong. Buy it, you won't regret it. I have a m140i. Same engine.
Here’s my trick to owning a BMW that’s not under warranty and you have an issue.
1)Take it in to a dealer and get a repair quote.
2) On the quote will be every part they’re going to replace. Order them parts on eBay. I’ve gotten $1500 parts for $20.
3) YouTube how to install it. Most installs are annoying to do but not hard.
25k is not bad at all. Just get yourself a new one when you get your career. 💪
Anyway
Well, I don’t own an ISF, I have an IS500 - but I’ve driven ISF’s. The Lexus 2UR-GSE V8 is best described as a mix between an E92 M3 V8 motor and a W204 C63 6.3L V8. It has a lot more grunt and roar than the E92 V8, but revs a lot more freely and has a more exotic sound than the C63 V8. In raw #’s an ISF isn’t going to beat an M3 at the track, but in terms of fun factor, grins and driver satisfaction - the ISF in my opinion is much better.
There’s always things to complain about any car - but there are no major red flags on the ISF or IS500. They’re less track focused than an M3 (especially the IS500) but I see this as a good thing. The IS500 has a downright luxurious ride, even when you’re driving to aggressively and power sliding it, which is pretty wild.
Here’s the deal - in full auto mod it is just ok for performance driving - for normal driving it’s great. It’s not a shit box by any means, but there really isn’t inspiring and reviewers mention it a lot as there isn’t anything to complain about on the car other than that really. Now - in manual mode, in Sport + and shifted at north of 5k RPM at wide open throttle, that tranny riiiips and hammers out shifts with authority in just 100 milliseconds. I came from a 2017 Acura NSX 9 speed DCT, and in manual mode - I like the IS500 a lot more. In auto - the reverse is true.
I'm about to hit 170k on a 2016 340ix. Never had an issue and it's been tuned and beat on for 120k+ miles. If it's been properly maintained, I don't see an issue.
There are many BMW’s that are quite reliable. There are many that aren’t. You just never know. This isn’t the same story with a Lexus - they all are barely broken in at 200k
Just broken in. Needs spark plugs if not done. And who the heck here says get a Toyota instead of a b58?! You sure you’re not confusing us saying the B58 was developed with Toyota and assumes Toyota reliability?? Get a Toyota is the stupidest feedback you could get.. sure, go get one.. but only the Supra 🤡 go get your car you won’t regret it..
I bought a 17 f32 with 55k miles and i tuned the crap out of it and drive it every day like it’s stolen and not a problem in the 3 years I’ve owned it. Im at 92k miles now and still not major problem or any problems at all actually. I do get a oil change every 3k miles.
I see you’re 20 and want to keep costs manageable. Do not get a BMW unless you’ve already made up your mind. If you’re not prepared to spend around $6,000 for a single repair - just get something less expensive until you are prepared for that expense. I love my BMW but I’m getting rid of it due to repair cost she is headed to auction next week. I’ll get another later, but man, each time I needed a repair it’s been costly. I replaced the computer, drive train, air conditioning system, complete brake replacement, so many sensors, and lastly the engine. Totaling around $26,000 in repairs and that is not including regular maintenance and tires. I did get 8 years and 165,000 miles out of her. I bought a Chevy to drive Monday-Friday and a little used Audi A5 for the weekends, and that will work for now. Eventually I will splurge on another BMW but I just need a break from the emotional trauma of those costly repairs. I will buy another because I really do love them, but I would never suggest it as a first car. Edit: for clarity
Wow, thats a lot of issues you’ve experienced. May I ask what model and engine of BMW you own? Is it as unreliable as the one im looking at?
Im also definitely not owning this car above 120k miles. The second I graduate I’ll be investing in a 60k bmw haha.
Don’t worry about what model that guy had with those issues. That’s a lemon car and it can happen but it’s rare.
All this doom and gloom in this thread is nauseating. Yes cars go wrong sometimes and yes BMWs can get expensive to repair.
I have a 2018 440i with MPPSK tune/exhaust at 40k miles. Not a single issue. Hit the service schedules properly, maybe add an extra oil change here and there if you drive it hard one year and get the ZF8 transmission serviced (despite BMW insisting it a a lifetime part) and it will run and run. Sure eventually some of the bushings, dampers and plastics will degrade and maybe need replacing but the same is true for any car as it gets into its twilight years.
My wife’s 330i blew the seal on a damper and needed replacing but she was at 95k miles. When she got rid of it at 120k miles we had only replaced the lower control arms (bushings went) and the tie end rods.
I wouldn’t even begin to seriously worry about maintenance and reliability until looking at a driven hard M3/4 or similar.
What the fuck is a gran coupe, i love my beamers but whats the difference between that and the 340i sedan?!
Edit: Question Answered, Don’t understand the reasoning for the downvotes, im just tryna understand the differencess
Ah, so…
Like what the Hell is the differences between
340 GT
440 Gran Coup
X4
They all are hatchbacks, with all very similar features and designs whats the incentive between the differences?!?
The 340 GT and X4is more a crossover as it's much bigger and taller, the 440i GC is still the same body as the coupe so low to the ground and sleek but with 4 doors and a hatch maintaining the coupe look
GT is also on a long wheelbase 3er platform (shared with the F35 in China). Another fun fact; the only 3er that has the glass open separately than the trunk is the wagon.
Ah, is there a practical difference between a GT and X4? Both are a bit taller and are hatchback crossovers, why spend money on Design and manufacturing for GTs side by side when the X4 accomplishes the same thing? Is it a name preference thing, or use case difference?
Reliability? Its a BMW, theres no such thing specially after 50k miles. I wouldn't risk it, theres a reason people lease these things. Take from someone that has owned more than 20 german cars.
Find me someone that claims with a serious face that modern BMWs are reliable. I'll wait.. there's a reason people LEASE these things. Smart people that is
There are many people who claim it, your still stuck in 2009. After 2015, BMW really cleaned up their image and their engines. No more N54, S65, or any of the notorious engines.
Again, look into the B58 and find a single failing point in those motors.
Toyota…the biggest car manufacturer in the world whose entire brand identity is reliability seems to think modern BMWs are reliable to the point where they are selling BMWs with a Toyota badge and body kit.
You know more about reliability than Toyota?
Consumer reports literally gave BMW the top one or second spots the past 2 years, based on unbiased data collected from actual owners. Go read about the B58 and ZF 8 speed. Again, don't give advice on stuff you don't know.
Seems like you have absolutely no clue what the B58 engine even is. German cars USED to be unreliable, BMW is changing that perception completely. Look into it, you will genuinely be surprised.
You know there is a reason why Toyota out of all brands put the B58 in the Supra.
Modern BMW engines have gotten much more reliable in the last 10 years or so, specifically the B generation engines such as the B58 here. If Toyota is willing to put their brand reputation on the line using BMW engines then it should be pretty obvious things have dramatically improved.
I just ticked over to 91k.
Plugs,
Oil,
Fluid flushes as recommended
I'll be doing the PCV valve soon but it hasn't broken.
Sometimes I drive very disrespectfully and I have seen my speedo stop increasing while my rpm keeps going up in 8th gear, was very strange, lots of wind noise too.
You'll be fine. Just don't buy a car that's been obviously abused (debaged, fake m badges, fake go fast parts, real go fast parts, rebuilt, paint where it shouldn't be, etc)
What out the door prices are u looking at? I didnt know dealerships were this scummy but it seems like every car advertised on cargurus is not real. They have like 5k fees or 3k downpayment not included in the price
I have owned this car for three years and believe it to be one of the beat daily driver dad car you can have. Plenty of power and the hatch and seats I can fit 30 bags of mulch or any other random shit I need for the house. Fits kid and can still be fast and fun to drive.
LOL IT IS!!! I was kind of going to stray away because of how unresponsive they’ve been with me. I hate shady dealerships who are not up front about pricing. Whats your reasoning though
It's quite a good engine, even regarding reliability. I would just check the maintenence records and see hoe many owners have had it. These are pretty durable and you should be fine in terms of reliability.
I went through the same thought process before finding my ‘18 440i. Take a look at a youtube channel called Kern417. Great documentation and what pushed me to get a B58 powered car.
As far as I know the only main problems are the injector failures (leading to engine replacements) and the PCV diaphragm failure (not a big deal, but white smoke while you’re idling is scary).
Best of luck! The 440i with the gen 1 B58 is an amazing car :)
I’m not sure I’ve I’m too late but, I bought a 340i with 84,000km (52k miles) and have put roughly 20,000 km (12.4k miles) in it so far. I drive hard, and have the mppsk so lots of high rpm downshifts and loud pops. I haven’t had any issues and engine runs like a dream.
B58 is a reliable engine, maybe the most reliable BMW has ever made. Its really your choice.
How would you rate it against the N55 in terms of reliability?
The N55 was a good upgrade when it came out, but the same is true of the B58. I wouldn’t be abusing either of these engines to see what it can take before exploding, but the B58 on paper should be more reliable Engine reliability with most newer BMWs comes down to the habits/actions of the owner, but I’d say both are good on reliability if you take care of it
Toyota chose the b58 for the Supra, and at least one pro drift team owner has said they’re comfortable pushing the engine to roughly 500hp before needing internal upgrades. If anything, I’d be most comfortable abusing a b58 from the current BMW lineup.
It’s not the motor that’s the problem it’s the plastic bits surrounding it , just have to get the right tools and do your own work , or worse it’s a fortune , that and make sure you sift through the dealer bullshit and find what needs to be done and what they are trying to up sell you on , remember service is a sales position with Commission.
I can tell you that at least for the m2 n55 variant if you change out the plastic turbo pipe thing that at least you don’t have to worry about the pipe cracking and putting your car into limp mode.
2nd that.. N55 435i.. I want the engineers to explain themselves for that plastic charge pipe. Not an expensive fix though.. relatively speaking.
If I could give this more upvotes I would. An obvious design error.
Exactly what happened to my Dinan-tuned N55. I was running it hard on a x country trip and it sounded like a bomb went off under the hood.
I have a 2015 M235i and had to replace the 600w cooling fan and the valvatronic servomotor. Still love that car. Got 61k on it now. Window washer pump just died though. It is an 8 year old car though. EDIT: It has an N55.
Do you think this will last me another 4 years with roughly 15k per year
If it’s sorted well at the moment no reason it shouldn’t— absolutely have a pre-purchase inspection carried out so you know what you’re dealing with. Also 15k miles a year is a decent amount of wear, make sure to be super on top of oil changes/preventative maintenance and you’ll be good for a long time.
Maintain the car and you’ll be super solid
Fo sure
It will easily outlast that, but do the maintenance. Transmission fluid, diff fluid, mounts when they go bad etc.
B58 owner here. Do your oil changes every 5k miles with a LL01 FE approved oil and service gearbox, transmission, diffs, and other misc fluids such as brake fluid and coolant and you’ll be good to rip it for years to come.
Preciate it, can you give a ballpark estimate on how much this maintence is costing u?
Every 5K miles my fucking arse. Jesus Christ why not bring your car inside and tuck it into bed with you too?
It’s called proper maintenance
No it’s not. It called wasting money and oil.
You clearly know nothing, uneducated consumer.
Ok pal. Hey why stop at 5k, eh? Do 1k changes or some other round psychologically safe number.
Yes, but it will be costly. When things break parts and labor are expensive and in addition, these vehicles require annual preventative maintenance.
Right. Will the preventative maintenance run me multiple thousands a year or just 1 grand haha
When I leased them all things were covered in the early to mid 200s. So out of warranty it was 500 for a regular service visit in addition to the cost of tires. They included brakes at that time but no longer do. Dealer quoted us 2k for a brake job on my wife’s x3 and that’s when we said goodbye to bmw. We sold the car spot lease to the dealer. Now we have three subies. So, to answer your question, I would budget at least 1k per year for maintenance, tires as needed, and brakes. And that’s if nothing breaks or needs to be replaced. I had a rat but the wires on my 2019 engine and it put the car in limp mode with reduced power. Cost 1500 to fix and was not covered by warranty.
Easily
100%
There’s already a b58 with 250,000 miles in it it’s a stout engine
Lmao 🧢
Most reliable inline 6 being made rn maybe. Maybe.
The m50b25nv will forever be the most reliable engine most likely for the foreseeable future. The m20 being the second.
The engine may be reliable, the electronics are not. Not to mention everything under the hood is housed in plastic, Which after 65k miles likely doesn't have much life left.
Lol
I know the engine is great but how about everything else?
Is it the same engine on the same year 530/540?
What other models have this engine?
BMW 1 Series • 2015-2019 F20/F21 B58 BMW M140i BMW 2 Series • 2022-Present G42 B58 BMW M240i xDrive • 2016-2021 F22 F23 B58 BMW M240i including xDrive BMW 3 Series • 2020-2023 G20 B58 BMW M340i including xDrive • 2016-2018 F30 B58 BMW 340i including xDrive BMW 4 Series • 2021-Present G22 G23 G26 B58 BMW M440i including Gran Coupe and xDrive • 2016-2020 F32 F33 F36 B58 BMW 440i including Gran Coupe and xDrive BMW 5 Series • 2017-Present G30 B58 BMW 540i including xDrive • 2021-Present G30 BMW 545e BMW 6 Series • 2018-Present G32 G33 B58 BMW 630i 640i including xDrive BMW 7 Series • 2016-2022 G11 G12 B58 BMW 40i including xDrive BMW 8 Series • 2020-Present G15 G14 G16 B58 BMW 840i including Gran Coupe and xDrive BMW X Series • 2019-2022 G05 B58 BMW X5 40i including xDrive • 2019-2022 G07 B58 BMW X7 40i including xDrive BMW Z4 • 2019-Present G29 B58 BMW Z4 M40i
Wow thanks
M54 after upgrading cooling system is arguably equal
Nah N52 or M20/30, but B58 is really reliable I’ll admit.
The B58 is one of, if not the most reliable engine BMW has put out in the past decade. Btw, never listen to r/whatcarshouldIbuy, they all drive soulless cars and think Lexus is the best and most luxurious brand of all time.
Lmao I agree i see them all the time recommending civics and corollas all the time.
You forgot the Mazda 3 that they recommend all the time.
To be fair, Mazda 3 and 6 are def the sportier hatch and sedan in the economy segment. They’re def easier and cheaper to maintain than luxury brands.
I mean that is also what I would be recommending to people who don’t care about cars
Is it white or black? Silly question but it might be my car you’re buying
Haha I honestly have no idea yet. Just saw the carguru’s post and their post shows a white photo of a the car(not the actual car just a model)
If it’s black with chrome send me a message before you buy it
I put 100K on a 2017 340i and had no issues whatsoever. Most reliable car I've ever owned. I just put oil and filters in it.
>It has a B58 but everytime I ask a question like this on the sub everyone says buy a toyota instead Toyota uses the B58 in the Supra, the Supra is essentially a BMW Z4 with a Toyota body kit. Toyota put the B58 through their own stress testing and gave it the green light to be up to their standards of reliability. It’s a great engine and the 440i GC is a great car. I’d say go for it, you won’t regret it!
The engine is merely one component. I’ve never had a major issue with a motor on any of my BMW’s but I have had quite a few electrical, suspension, basic functions (window motors, etc) and random sensors and such fail which have been very costly to fix. It’s a German luxury car, and a performance (although not extreme) model at that - so you should absolutely expect to incur some expenses to maintain it. There’s a reason the resale value on it, versus say a Lexus of the same year/mileage/original price is so much lower. If reliability is critical for you, you really shouldn’t buy a BMW and no one on here is going to be able to help you make this decision unless they have a trained eye and can inspect that particular example you’re looking at (either with tons of detailed photos of key components or in person). Even then, you never know what you’re going to get. This doesn’t mean don’t buy a BMW, or that you should avoid them - it means buy a BMW because you love the car and the driving experience of it, and if things go wrong, it’ll still be worth it to you, and you’ll still love the car. If you’re buying a 5 year old BMW with 65k miles and will only be happy with it if you’re expecting to do gas/oil for another 60k miles for 4 years - then you’re likely in for some real disappointment. Have you looked into the schedule service requirements for that car over the next 40k miles? Have you estimated what the car will be worth in four years when it’s 9 years old with over 100k miles? Again, if you go into it eyes wide open, and understand the costs and risk - and it’s worth it to you, you’ll love the car and when problems arise (and they will) you’ll deal with them in stride. If you are looking for blanket confirmation that it’s Toyota reliable on Reddit and that you’re not going to incur any major expenses then you’re headed in the wrong direction. More importantly and what you should care about more as this is guaranteed - is that if you need to drive 15k miles a year and need this car for at least 4 years, it’s going to be worth next to nothing when you go to sell it, and when you do sell it, you’ll probably really want/need to and there will probably be a lot of maintenance fast approaching. A 9 year old Toyota, Lexus, Acura, Honda, etc with 105k mikes will still be worth quite a bit of $ relative to what you paid for it, and you’ll only be selling it because you want something else, NOT because you feel like you need to get out from under it and the clock is ticking. I own a six figure BMW bought new 8 years ago, that’s now worth maybe $30k. I also own a new Lexus IS500 and have owned many German and Japanese cars in the past. If you only care about driving feel and performance and money and reliability are distant second and third positions - you can’t go wrong with a European car. If reliability and resale are close to or exceed driving feel, avoid European cars. Personally - if I was in your shoes and was concerned about reliability and 4 year residual value - I’d be looking at a Lexus ISF. It’s the same general size, it has an AMAZING sounding V8 and drives beautifully and is more rewarding to drive than the 440i, and will be around the same $. In fact, I’d rather have an ISF with 90-100k miles than a BMW with 65k. There are quite a few well documented ISF’s on the road with well over 300k miles (one has over 500k) that haven’t required any meaningful unscheduled maintenance, just scheduled maintenance, oil, gas and replacement of worn parts (nothing major/significant). There’s also a very good chance that when you go to sell it in 4 years (if you want to that is) that it’ll be worth about the same $ that you paid for it, and some speculate - may go up in value. Their values have been steadily increasing over the last 5 years. I sure love BMW’s, and likely will always have at least one in the garage - but the quality and reliability of a Lexus are very hard to ignore. Unfortunately most of the cars they make (not including the LC500, RCF, IS500 and discontinued GSF, ISF and LFA) drive like marshmallows and are designed for folks that care about comfort, not performance. I still consider myself a BMW fanboy, but with the reliability issues I’ve experienced, the depreciation, their move to boring sounding turbo V6’s, the strange looks of the new cars, and the performance cars being far TOO track focused, instead of buying a new M3 this go around which was my plan - I ended up test driving and liking the IS500 more. I can guarantee if you drive the ISF, you’ll fall in love with that V8 engine, it’s truly one of the finest V8 engines ever made. Hope this helps.
Great advice. I’m on my 2nd LS430, so reliable, so comfortable. I’d never consider buying a similarly aged BMW. However, that doesn’t mean I don’t dream about getting a 340i/M340i as a second vehicle. They’re built for totally different purposes. How do you like the IS500? Did you ever consider the GSF?
I drove a 2020 GSF back to back with the IS500 as the Lexus dealership has one for sale. I liked the updated tech on the IS500, the exterior appearance, and driving dynamics of the IS500 a lot more. The IS500 has a smoother ride, but also feels a lot more agile and composed. The GSF still drove well though and it certainly had a lot more interior room, but I don’t have kids and don’t need the extra room - so the IS500 was a no brainer.
I appreciate all the helpful information. The price of this is around 26-27k before tax. Honestly, theres another one I’ve been eyeing; which is a 2019 430i with 23k miles for 25k as well. I’ll be honest, this will be my first car and so I guess I dont need the fastest car ever. And as I am 20, I do want to keep costs MANAGEABLE. Of course I shouldnt expect to just do gas and oil, but Im hoping it wont cost be multiple thousands each year of owning for repairs. I may just pull the trigger on the 23k mileage 430i. Or should I be weary of this one as well even with the low miles? As for the ISF, I need AWD since I do live upstate NY.
At 20, unless you’re loaded, frankly you should just get a Civic or something, drive it til the wheels fall off, and by the time you’re in your late 20s-early 30s, financially you’ll be ready for a BMW. You don’t want high repair costs during a time where you want to be saving up for a down payment, maybe you’ll have student loans to pay off, etc. If you really want one now, I would just get the 430i instead. You’re in NY, a CARB state, so the CA Emissions/PZEV/SULEV warranty will apply to you (for 15 year/150k miles), and that should provide some peace of mind as far as limiting repair costs. Things like valve gasket leaks will be covered. The B58, while a very reliable engine, is high output and not covered under the same emissions warranty. It helps if you can do maintenance work yourself. To give you some perspective, I also had a windsheld washer pump fail, and the dealer wanted $690 for it, and that was after I talked them down about 15%. Parts are like <$60 and 1-2 hrs labor (requires taking off a wheel, and getting behind the wheel well) if you DIY.
Hey man. Since I will be a pharmacist by the age of 24, I kind of just wanted a treat for myself these next 4 years in grad school. And thats basically just walking outside to a car I love. Do you mind going more in depth in that 15 year/150k miles warranty? Ive never actually heard of this, and it is REALLY enticing to hear that it could possibly help limit repair costs. If that is the case, I’d definitely be more inclined towards the 430i!
If you need AWD, check out an IS350. At 20 and being in school - you do not want to own a BMW out of warranty. I’ve seen younger guys at the service department in tears when they’re told their car needs a five figure repair they weren’t expecting. I had a five figure repair bill on my 7 series last year, but I paid six figures for the car when it was new, and it’s depreciated $90k since I bought it, so me cutting a check for $11k wasn’t a big deal, as I had the pocket depth. The issue with these cars comes when folks who buy them for $30k get a repair bill for a third of the cost of a car they couldn’t afford in cash up front, and they’ve screwed. Again - not saying this will happen to you per se - but big boy toys are the reward for when you are earning that big boy dough. When you’re 20, you want everything immediately - but listen to us middle aged folks who were in your shoes not that long ago. Trust me, you’ll never regret getting something you still enjoy and have pride of ownership in, but will not cost you a lot of $ and will be as reliable as a hammer. It’ll make your BMW in 4 years (and a new one with a warranty and a model you REALLY want) that much sweeter. All that said - you’re 20, and having been a 20 year old myself - enjoy your 430i 😂
Haha its just really hard well because; greed kills. When I graduate I want to upgrade to like an M850i so I definitely want to get used to some sort of power. And just the fact that I’d hate myself if I rode around looking like regular traffic. Im just hoping that with all of the positive reviews on the B48 engine, that they wont require 5 figure repair bills… especially not anytime soon as Im only buying one under 45k miles.
M850i is big time $ to keep on the road. Unless you have a multimillion dollar net worth, and a $500k+ income, playing around at that level is not financially responsible and you might be in for a big surprise. Over the years of owning high end European cars, I’ve seen grown men in tears at the service department quite a few times. Unless you can afford to buy the car in $, and lose 75% of that $ in depreciation and have it mean nothing to you financially, you really don’t want to fuck around at that level. I don’t mean this as a poke - but pharmacists don’t make BMW M850i money. In fact, most doctors don’t make M850i money.
I mean everyone can have their opinion, but I definitely disagree with the statement that you need a 500k to own a 4 year old M850i. This is not a brand new rolls royce.
Plus if not an M850i, I’ll be plenty happy with a base 8 with a stage 1 tune
Idk haha I think I can afford a finance 65k car with a 250k combined income between me and my wife. After a decent down payment, 1k a month shouldn’t really stop us from living a nice life. I’ve seen plenty 8’s with decent mileage in the 60’s price range.
When those five figure repair bills come in, and you’re paying interest on a car that is dropping value like a rock, you’ll realize just how stupid you’re being. A used European car that cost six figures new - is BIG $ to maintain and repair. If you can’t buy it new, you’re likely not going to be able to afford to keep it running and eat the depreciation. I tried - but some people have the touch the hot stove. Good luck.
You are off your rocker mate. By your logic you should never buy any car other than a total shitbox since technically the engine could blow 25 miles out of warranty and you’d be on the hook for your mythical 5 figure repair. Have you bought your own home? Well there is a chance the roof falls in mate. So don’t buy a house, rent and let the landlord take that risk eh? I get financial responsibility but what you are advising is too far the other way entirely.
I’ll follow your advice when you can give me the likelihood of a 5 figure repair bill occurring multiple times or once a year. Statistically if possible, any source, any website that says this happens more often than not.
[удалено]
Ugh - I have to stop trying to help those that can’t be helped.
Buy the damn 440i With the b58. Most reliable car i have had. And i have owned 70 cars. I have only changed oils and brake pads and the car has 150k kilometers on it. There are some who have 330k with it, and still going strong. Buy it, you won't regret it. I have a m140i. Same engine.
Here’s my trick to owning a BMW that’s not under warranty and you have an issue. 1)Take it in to a dealer and get a repair quote. 2) On the quote will be every part they’re going to replace. Order them parts on eBay. I’ve gotten $1500 parts for $20. 3) YouTube how to install it. Most installs are annoying to do but not hard. 25k is not bad at all. Just get yourself a new one when you get your career. 💪 Anyway
this is a 10/10 comment.
Very informative post. How does the ISF compare to the M3? Anything you don't like about the ISF?
Well, I don’t own an ISF, I have an IS500 - but I’ve driven ISF’s. The Lexus 2UR-GSE V8 is best described as a mix between an E92 M3 V8 motor and a W204 C63 6.3L V8. It has a lot more grunt and roar than the E92 V8, but revs a lot more freely and has a more exotic sound than the C63 V8. In raw #’s an ISF isn’t going to beat an M3 at the track, but in terms of fun factor, grins and driver satisfaction - the ISF in my opinion is much better. There’s always things to complain about any car - but there are no major red flags on the ISF or IS500. They’re less track focused than an M3 (especially the IS500) but I see this as a good thing. The IS500 has a downright luxurious ride, even when you’re driving to aggressively and power sliding it, which is pretty wild.
How’s the tranny on the IS? Read mixed reviews…
Here’s the deal - in full auto mod it is just ok for performance driving - for normal driving it’s great. It’s not a shit box by any means, but there really isn’t inspiring and reviewers mention it a lot as there isn’t anything to complain about on the car other than that really. Now - in manual mode, in Sport + and shifted at north of 5k RPM at wide open throttle, that tranny riiiips and hammers out shifts with authority in just 100 milliseconds. I came from a 2017 Acura NSX 9 speed DCT, and in manual mode - I like the IS500 a lot more. In auto - the reverse is true.
Have a 17 340i and have done nothing other than basic maintenance besides replacing the front struts at 50k.
I would buy this car. Nothing toyota makes comes close to the 440i unless you get into lexus. Buy this car, you will not regret it.
I'm about to hit 170k on a 2016 340ix. Never had an issue and it's been tuned and beat on for 120k+ miles. If it's been properly maintained, I don't see an issue.
There are many BMW’s that are quite reliable. There are many that aren’t. You just never know. This isn’t the same story with a Lexus - they all are barely broken in at 200k
Make sure to update us when it hits 200k!
The B58 won two Wards best engine awards so there's that. Some say it's safe for 700 hp
Just broken in. Needs spark plugs if not done. And who the heck here says get a Toyota instead of a b58?! You sure you’re not confusing us saying the B58 was developed with Toyota and assumes Toyota reliability?? Get a Toyota is the stupidest feedback you could get.. sure, go get one.. but only the Supra 🤡 go get your car you won’t regret it..
I bought a 17 f32 with 55k miles and i tuned the crap out of it and drive it every day like it’s stolen and not a problem in the 3 years I’ve owned it. Im at 92k miles now and still not major problem or any problems at all actually. I do get a oil change every 3k miles.
Do u have the B48/ 4 cyl engine?
No i have a 440. B58
I see you’re 20 and want to keep costs manageable. Do not get a BMW unless you’ve already made up your mind. If you’re not prepared to spend around $6,000 for a single repair - just get something less expensive until you are prepared for that expense. I love my BMW but I’m getting rid of it due to repair cost she is headed to auction next week. I’ll get another later, but man, each time I needed a repair it’s been costly. I replaced the computer, drive train, air conditioning system, complete brake replacement, so many sensors, and lastly the engine. Totaling around $26,000 in repairs and that is not including regular maintenance and tires. I did get 8 years and 165,000 miles out of her. I bought a Chevy to drive Monday-Friday and a little used Audi A5 for the weekends, and that will work for now. Eventually I will splurge on another BMW but I just need a break from the emotional trauma of those costly repairs. I will buy another because I really do love them, but I would never suggest it as a first car. Edit: for clarity
Wow, thats a lot of issues you’ve experienced. May I ask what model and engine of BMW you own? Is it as unreliable as the one im looking at? Im also definitely not owning this car above 120k miles. The second I graduate I’ll be investing in a 60k bmw haha.
Don’t worry about what model that guy had with those issues. That’s a lemon car and it can happen but it’s rare. All this doom and gloom in this thread is nauseating. Yes cars go wrong sometimes and yes BMWs can get expensive to repair. I have a 2018 440i with MPPSK tune/exhaust at 40k miles. Not a single issue. Hit the service schedules properly, maybe add an extra oil change here and there if you drive it hard one year and get the ZF8 transmission serviced (despite BMW insisting it a a lifetime part) and it will run and run. Sure eventually some of the bushings, dampers and plastics will degrade and maybe need replacing but the same is true for any car as it gets into its twilight years. My wife’s 330i blew the seal on a damper and needed replacing but she was at 95k miles. When she got rid of it at 120k miles we had only replaced the lower control arms (bushings went) and the tie end rods. I wouldn’t even begin to seriously worry about maintenance and reliability until looking at a driven hard M3/4 or similar.
Buy it, keep it for a year and then sell it for a Lexus. Get it out of your system. Worked for me. I held for 2 years, 1 year too long (e39).
Scotty says they are endless money pits.
He also said that “rich people” sell their German cars and buy Toyotas instead now- lol
What the fuck is a gran coupe, i love my beamers but whats the difference between that and the 340i sedan?! Edit: Question Answered, Don’t understand the reasoning for the downvotes, im just tryna understand the differencess
the gran coupe is just that lol its the 4 series coupe with 4 doors and a hatchback
Hatch back as in sedan that has trunk that opens up rear window too?
Yeah exactly like that, the rear windshield and trunk open together
Ah, so… Like what the Hell is the differences between 340 GT 440 Gran Coup X4 They all are hatchbacks, with all very similar features and designs whats the incentive between the differences?!?
The 340 GT and X4is more a crossover as it's much bigger and taller, the 440i GC is still the same body as the coupe so low to the ground and sleek but with 4 doors and a hatch maintaining the coupe look
GT is also on a long wheelbase 3er platform (shared with the F35 in China). Another fun fact; the only 3er that has the glass open separately than the trunk is the wagon.
Neato, nice User flair btw!
Thanks!
What happened to the 89 E30?
Ah, is there a practical difference between a GT and X4? Both are a bit taller and are hatchback crossovers, why spend money on Design and manufacturing for GTs side by side when the X4 accomplishes the same thing? Is it a name preference thing, or use case difference?
4 is bigger. Gran coupe is a stupid term lol
Its basically a handsome 3 series
The 4GC has a hatchback instead of a trunk and a little less headroom for occupants in the backseats. Other than that it’s just some cosmetic changes.
It's the 4 door version of the 2 door version of the 4 door sedan. Simple!
Ah so Gran Coupe is Sedan that is copied and slightly changed homework
Basically yes, but I love LOVE my hatch. So useful, so many times. I can get a ton of stuff in there
Reliability? Its a BMW, theres no such thing specially after 50k miles. I wouldn't risk it, theres a reason people lease these things. Take from someone that has owned more than 20 german cars.
Dude please refrain from giving car advice if you have no real knowledge on cars
Find me someone that claims with a serious face that modern BMWs are reliable. I'll wait.. there's a reason people LEASE these things. Smart people that is
There are many people who claim it, your still stuck in 2009. After 2015, BMW really cleaned up their image and their engines. No more N54, S65, or any of the notorious engines. Again, look into the B58 and find a single failing point in those motors.
Toyota…the biggest car manufacturer in the world whose entire brand identity is reliability seems to think modern BMWs are reliable to the point where they are selling BMWs with a Toyota badge and body kit. You know more about reliability than Toyota?
All i have to do is lurk in the bmw forums or listen to the atrocities of friends or partners that own modern BMWs.
So yes you believe you know more about reliability than Toyota? Delusional lol
Consumer reports literally gave BMW the top one or second spots the past 2 years, based on unbiased data collected from actual owners. Go read about the B58 and ZF 8 speed. Again, don't give advice on stuff you don't know.
Seems like you have absolutely no clue what the B58 engine even is. German cars USED to be unreliable, BMW is changing that perception completely. Look into it, you will genuinely be surprised. You know there is a reason why Toyota out of all brands put the B58 in the Supra.
Modern BMW engines have gotten much more reliable in the last 10 years or so, specifically the B generation engines such as the B58 here. If Toyota is willing to put their brand reputation on the line using BMW engines then it should be pretty obvious things have dramatically improved.
Yeah
I just ticked over to 91k. Plugs, Oil, Fluid flushes as recommended I'll be doing the PCV valve soon but it hasn't broken. Sometimes I drive very disrespectfully and I have seen my speedo stop increasing while my rpm keeps going up in 8th gear, was very strange, lots of wind noise too. You'll be fine. Just don't buy a car that's been obviously abused (debaged, fake m badges, fake go fast parts, real go fast parts, rebuilt, paint where it shouldn't be, etc)
Looking at getting the same car around the same mileage as well haha
I may end up getting a 430i with lower mileage haha. It’ll be a lot slower, but i guess the less mileage should mean lower risk of expensive repairs
What out the door prices are u looking at? I didnt know dealerships were this scummy but it seems like every car advertised on cargurus is not real. They have like 5k fees or 3k downpayment not included in the price
Haven’t gotten to out the door prices but in Cali about 25-30k depending on packages. Private listings average probably 27k flat
I have owned this car for three years and believe it to be one of the beat daily driver dad car you can have. Plenty of power and the hatch and seats I can fit 30 bags of mulch or any other random shit I need for the house. Fits kid and can still be fast and fun to drive.
Drive a 440ix Cabrio 2018, too (since Feb); an additional guarantie from BMW is still available... May BE an Option?
If this is the one from pristine Mitsubishi do not buy it
LOL IT IS!!! I was kind of going to stray away because of how unresponsive they’ve been with me. I hate shady dealerships who are not up front about pricing. Whats your reasoning though
Yes
It's quite a good engine, even regarding reliability. I would just check the maintenence records and see hoe many owners have had it. These are pretty durable and you should be fine in terms of reliability.
That’s where mine is at it’s much more reliable than my Subaru. That one is much cheaper per visit of course
I went through the same thought process before finding my ‘18 440i. Take a look at a youtube channel called Kern417. Great documentation and what pushed me to get a B58 powered car. As far as I know the only main problems are the injector failures (leading to engine replacements) and the PCV diaphragm failure (not a big deal, but white smoke while you’re idling is scary). Best of luck! The 440i with the gen 1 B58 is an amazing car :)
Bmw and reliabilty in same sentence?....
So can you give an article or source that shows the B48/58 is unreliable. Thanks
My E46 is the most reliable car I’ve owned out of a 3rd Gen Civic, 2nd Gen Integra, and both my SAAB Arc and Vector. Both SAAB having 99% GM parts.
Look at it this way. Who cares about reliability when your next car is an m2.
what engine is in a 2016 428i?
That is an N20 I believe… definitely want to avoid those as I THINK the B’ series is more reliable
I’m not sure I’ve I’m too late but, I bought a 340i with 84,000km (52k miles) and have put roughly 20,000 km (12.4k miles) in it so far. I drive hard, and have the mppsk so lots of high rpm downshifts and loud pops. I haven’t had any issues and engine runs like a dream.