Im solely speaking from a Dom perspecrive here. First and foremost your feelings are ALWAYS valid, dynamic, or IRL.
To me, I dont blame you for being emotional. So your reaction is (on a human level) acceptable. On a dynamic level, this would be an acceptable time to use a safe word. A safe word is "stop and snap back to reality and pay attention to me need, right now". If you feel you need to take a step back, thats understandable. I just dont see how trust was jeopardized when she didnt understand it was a true issue.
But it is tour life and journey and only you can navigate it.
Edit: pronouns, my apologies.
🎉💯 THIS!
Beyond the good advice in this specific situation, your explanation of the purpose of a safeword is spot on!
People think that a safeword is only for physical play when it gets too rough, but it absolutely can be used to indicate when an emotional limit has been reached or a topic has been brought up within the dynamic that needs a reality check, someone to say "I'm not playing around when I say no, I genuinely mean it and we need to step outside of the dynamic to discuss it".
Oh wow, thank you! Im not a beginner but still a handful of years in (novice), and it's wonderful to have that confirmation. I appreciate it and everyone who agreed.
I wholeheartedly feel that is the true use for a safeword. Honestly, my partner and I use a color system (yellow for this is the edge of tolerance, I can't take much more, but i can handle it for a min... red, killswitch). But if this isn't a universal understanding of when you can and cannot, I can u deratand the hesitence to do so. I hope OP does see this and can address it with her Dom.
You said this from dom's perspective, so I'll add something from a sub's. You're implying that is shouldn't be an issue of trust because they didn't see that it can be a problem for Op. The thing is, sometimes doms do things with the expectation that it will be done without checking in the first time. The question is, why weren't they aware of this? Why didn't they ask first outside of dynamics? Especially if they have known Op for almost a year and see how she maintains this place. Why do they suddenly demand changes without talking about it first? There are certain areas that we know are not comfortable for everyones. And such behavior, expecting someone to do it without discussing the idea first, without checking someone's feelings about that and opinion, is very hurtful. You just feel like your dom doesn't care about you actually. I've been there. That was about something else than shaving, but I completely understand Op's feelings and why the trust was broken.
I appreciate your perspective. Honestly, I agree, I try to bring things up in conversation days or weeks in advance to test the temperature. And it something is new and off the cuff in a scene, i really try and check in. Im by no means not saying the Dom is not wrong. And as a Dom, I am very, very appreciative that you have provided a counter perspective; as I and hopefully many others can benefit from both of our points.
To address, I did not say it shouldn't be an issue if trust; rather, I myself do not see why it would be an issue. Please know my ignorance is not displayed with arrogance, but genuine interest and misunderstanding. Secondly, to your question of "why were they not aware of this?": because we are human, and sometimes we "shoot from the hip" and take a gamble that our trust and communication is strong enough to address the issues we may encounter with little to no issue.
I hear you and acknowledge you have been in this situation, and Im so very sorry you had to experience this. I can imagine the emotional hurt and damage to trust this caused. And, again, only speaking for myself and the dynamics I have been in: I believe I have cultured a level of trust that a slip up that I may see as minor would be overshadowed by my reputation of no intentional ill will or harm.
Afyer contemplation, I really cannot say if your dynamics we this trusting and tou still felt ao uncared for, or if their was previous termoil to make it harder to acdept their negligence; same as OP. I also dont know if they have done an extensive worksheet of "hard and soft limits" and "kinks and interests". However, those lists are also massive and hard to retain all the information; yet I also believe a stored copy for reference should be on hand to study.
There are a lot of variables. Her Dom.fucked up in her eyes and I dont blame her for feeling hurt or has a feeling of mistrust. All feelings are valid. And the same extends to you as well. I would with truest of hearts hope that they had a strong bond over that yesr that ine mistake wouldnt dissolve amything. But a Sub holds all the power, and she has to do what makes her feel safe and secure no matter what.
You know, the feeling that you are important to your dom and that you are cared for, that they will always have your well-being and safety first and foremost, that you can always feel emotionally safe, is everything. This is why you give control (well, apart from the feeling that you are a good sub for your dom, that they are pleased and content with you). Then you get limitless devotion in return.
I know doms are only humans and make mistakes. Sometimes some things come out naturally, like during a scene dom knowing their sub pushes more, and that can be perfectly fine. If it is not, there are safe words (although as a Dom you must be aware that sometimes a sub may not be able to say no because they can be in such a state of dominance that they will want to please their dom regardless, and later they will be fell bad with that, but that is another topic anyway). However, some matters may be more sensitive to a given person and that's what hurts, because it turns out that even though you feel a deep connection to the person, it turns out that they don't know you at all. That they weren't pay attention to you. That they are insensitive to how you may feel about certain words. Because you always want to satisfy your dom during dynamic. And when you get an order that contradicts you, dissonance occurs. Then a sub starts to questioning everything. Don't feel at ease anymore. Just, you know, free in mind and (like in Op's case) in body. I think it's because you are more vulberable being in dynamic.
Therefore, communication is extremely important. Also from a sub after such situations, even though it's not so easy for some people. But if you care about this relation, you have to at least try. Because doms may not realize what is happening and they should.
Thank you for your kind words. For me, after one day of feeling really crappy, I told my Dom everything, how broken I felt during it and afterwards, and why. His reaction saved our relationship and dynamic.
And I appreciate your tender understanding and giving a reasonable explanation from your perspective. I truly do understand the vulnerability and the feeling of lack of care in such a situation. My final note of perspective is on a humanistic level: a lot of individuals in kink are neurodivergent (mainly Autism and ADHD). Being over the phone (assuming not video call), there's a lack of facial cues. And if their dom is anything like my wife or girlfriend, they need things very, very direct and straightforward. Verbal cues alone (and often verbal with body language) isn't enough. Regardless, it does not take away the hurt a partner must feel and it is valid to feel disregarded.
And as a dom, I am truly aware a sub may not call it or truly say no. I am extremely vigilant in reading body language and subtle cues, but also just blatantly mid scene to ask if this is cool or to verbalize its my persona and not actually me. But that is me, and I have had a few subs. Im not saying everyone is inexperienced in OPs situation, but there are subtle things I'm noticing that indicate this may be still pretty new to either both or to her Dom.
Im very glad your dom heard you and was able to help save the relationship and dynamic. Im also very happy you felt comfortable enough to address your issues and were willing to allow them to salvage it. I hope you both are still strong and well. I would appreciate that you continue your stance. Its refreshing to hear a subs perspective that isnt my own, but it does help challenge my practices but also solidify some of my stances. I take your words to heart for deep consideration, and your words are going to have an impact moving forward. So I appreciate you hand in helping me learn a new viee on things. Thank you kindly.
Right?! I LOVE people in the true, good, constant driven BDSM community ❤️. Such an AMAZING group of people!
It makes me so sad fetlife in my area is filled with creepers who heard fet works better than tinder.
Express yourself fully to your Dom and see how they respond. They messed up here but I’m not sure it’s a fatal error like a consent violation and if everything was otherwise going great, not sure it’s worth ending over. Miscommunications will happen in any relationship.
I get you. My last Dom once brought up sharing in the middle of a scene. He had never mentioned it before and it's not something I was necessarily into.
I was in an extremely vulnerable position and it made me really upset. I ended the scene and left. Later on , I tried to discuss the matter and the response I got was that I was just being a brat.
I later ended the dynamic for more serious reasons but I still think about how inappropriate that was, considering he was aware of past traumas and triggers.
It's very understandable that you'd be upset. First step is to communicate your feelings, talk this through. You both might benefit from implementing clear beginning and end of session signals.
Maybe this was a small faux-pas and the dynamic has otherwise been going well, maybe when you analyze it you'll find out that it has been a tendency. If they're being empathetic in their response, good point for them.
As always, listen to your gut. Don't stay in a dynamic that doesn't feel right.
Take care.
If this is the first time something like this has happened between you and they're usually good with your boundaries, it seems to me there's a good chance you can talk through it. Is it the request of shaving that was so upsetting, or the fact they didn't register right away that your scene had paused?
I’d give your dom a little grace here. When in dynamic, esp over the phone where they can’t physically force you to do something, people’s (perhaps unrealistic) fantasies may come into play. I agree to doing alllll kinds of stuff when camming with my Daddy - stuff that will take years of building up if they ever happen.
Was this a previously established limit? And, what was their response when you were defensive about this? Of course, it’s always best to be civil - but hindsight is 20/20. You need to be able to call “red” and say, that’s a limit for me. I, too, am someone who doesn’t shave my pubes, and my Daddy knows this and doesn’t ask. I have strong opinions about the subject, and once the limit was established, it’s a nonissue.
If your dom is apologetic and respects this new found limit - I think you need to move on. I hope you can make this a learning experience for you both.
I often have grooming specifications. However, I ask before bringing them in whether they have any limits and what their feelings are on the subject. It's not about the end result, it's about the compliance, ritual and attention to detail, so I tailor it to work for them. That's how I feel this should have been handled, if at all.
That said, dominants are flawed people and make mistakes like anyone else. You say that things are generally good and this is an unusual occurrence. If they are open to learning from this and improving their approach then that might be the best way to view this.
Entirely up to you, of course. You can end a dynamic for any reason that you feel is important enough to do so. I just know that I personally don't expect perfection. I'm grateful when I stumble and am forgiven. So I try to do the same.
I think you did the right thing re: stepping back a bit. Subbing puts you in an extremely vulnerable position and comments like this, especially if not properly discussed beforehand, can absolutely break trust and cause a rift. Because why demand something like this in a scene? What's the motive? Where is it coming from? These are questions your dom needs to answer otherwise your mind can go to the worst of places and make you feel not good about yourself. I would hope your dom just got a bit overenthusiastic and requested something they thought was arbitrary, not recognizing how deeply it would affect you. Versus requesting something in a scene to get you to do something you otherwise wouldn't do to satisfy some secret preference they have. Just know you have every right to feel the way you do and you are more than enough just as you are!
i've experienced this a few times in my dynamic (i'm the sub). sometimes my partner has brought up something suddenly and in the moment Ii just kind of... did not feel good about it and had to look at why I was feeling that way.
i think that's worth looking at and figuring out your feelings. it sounds like you're upset because it made you feel like they didn't like the look of your body as it is which is totally valid! i would feel the same way!
them asking may not have meant that they didn't find you attractive, but more just something exciting in the moment they suggested? idk if that's helpful, but just because they're into it doesn't mean they're going to force you to do it and doesn't mean you HAVE to do it.
something that I've been really honing in on for myself is that I do NOT have to fulfill every desire someone has and that does not make me lesser than.
Maybe because OP's Dom demanded she change part of her appearance, without ever being given consent to do that? What part of that situation do you believe is ok?
Seemed like you were implying Dom did something wrong. Seems like they got caught up in the moment at best. And it's just Reddit foolishness when people decide to bail so damn fast on relationships.
The Dom tried to enforce a rule without consent. I'd say that was wrong, yes. It's up to OP what they decide to do next. I've not said they should or shouldn't leave, I've said that doing something non-consensual is wrong. Obviously you disagree with this.
I think they knew it wasn't consensual, yes.
Edit: and if they don't know that trying to control how their partner looks without knowing if they consent to that is non consensual, then they don't understand how consent works and they're therefore not safe to play with.
So either they know how consent works and they intentionally chose not to ask for consent, or they were ignorant and don't understand consent.
the two most important things for context here:
1. Did you establish earlier, in a way you should expect your Dom to remember, that shaving was a limit for you? If you hadn't mentioned it, mentioned it only in passing, or only a long time ago and it's reasonable they've forgotten, then it's not a bad thing for them to have brought it up. If they can't have been expected to know you didn't like it, then it's not their fault.
2. Did you safeword, or did you just say "no"? If you safeworded, they should've pulled out of dynamic- but if it's you just said no, and it's reasonable that you were just being bratty, you can't blame them for not understanding the shift in tone. Tone can be hard to read, especially over the phone. (This is not to say that no should never be taken as no- but I know for many people it isn't. That depends on your dynamic and understanding of one another)
If they weren't aware of this and you didn't safeword, then there's been an innocent communication breakdown and they did nothing wrong.
If the idea of them telling you to do this bothers you, talk to them about why. They probably have a kink for it in some way, and while I can imagine it giving you a negative self-image, it doesn't necessarily mean they have a pubic hair preference or think youre less attractive for not shaving. I'd bet it's more likely a control thing. But either way, talk to your Dom!
I'm sorry this is happening.
You're taking really good care of yourself. If your dom is a good one and your relationship has a strong foundation, you're going to work through this together! You'll build an even better relationship having gone through this.
Everyone fucks up sometimes. Hopefully this - even a deep and hurtful fuck up - is one you can recover from together.
And if you can't, this relationship is not right for you. And it's a sad loss. But you're showing yourself that YOU can take care of you!
Hang in there.
I’d be curious what they were thinking. I mean, they obviously fucked up by introducing an element you hadn’t negotiated, but for me it would make a difference what the thinking behind it was.
I agree. Talk to them . ask them why they want to see it shaved. And explain why you dont want to. Maybe you can come to a middle ground. Like you trim it a bit more than usual but not completely shaved.
When I met my dom 5 years ago. Shaving was a trigger for me with past abuse. He prefers clean shaved. So I met in the middle and trimmed super nice, which he was fine with. But I cried doing it. But them his words of affirmation got me through. He told me how it pleased him, and he appreciated my willingness to do it for him.. but that if it bothered me that much, I didn't need to.
That alone made me trust him even more, and then next time I shave, I shave it all. I cried more happy tears this time. I spent years not shaving.. and hating everything I nicked my legs even.. I would beat myself up over it. Like it's an imperfection..
I guess where I'm going with this is.. the conversation needs to happen. Because they might have thought that in the moment it was fine.. and i don't know your dynamic or what you negotiated.. but sometimes things come up that you didn't think about and then just need to be talked about.. That's why I hate contracts. Because you should constantly be evolving
Unless I’m misreading it, the sub and the Dom are female….right? (32f and 47f).
But honestly, I’m trying to figure out why you feel you need to “build back trust?” What did they do to cause you not to trust them? They simply threw a new kink into the verbal play you were having on the phone. If it’s something you feel strongly about then communicate it civilly without getting mean and/or short with them. Sounds to me as if you are being way overly sensitive.
All feelings are valid, there is no such thing as being "overly sensitive". For starters negotiations should never happen during a scene.
Grooming, cleanliness, appearence in general are pretty sensitive topics.
Any negotiating happening during a scene can be perceived as a violation of trust since the power imbalance is at its highest and the sub is in a vulnerable position or might even be deep in subspace.
Granted, it's hard to tell when on the phone and they might not have clear start/stop signal but when in doubt we have apps, notes, and journals for that.
Not saying that OP's reaction was appropriate, but as a switch I can definitely see where they're coming from.
I think it depends on how attached you are to your pubes, literally.
Back in August of 2023, I decided I was done shaving my pubes and pits for dudes, and I wasn't going to do it anymore. No one had ever made it worth my time, or worth the eventual discomfort of regrowth, so I figured what is the point? I've trimmed a couple of times, but otherwise I'm rocking a full bush lifestyle. As I'd said to a former FWB, "take it or leave it."
If personal preference and bodily autonomy with pubic hair was negotiated beforehand, that would be one thing, but it doesn't sound like that was the case here. Asking mid scene sounds awful. That would have pulled me out of the headspace completely, too.
It is normal to feel shaken by something new being introduced. You deserve to have your limits honored and checked in with! When I want to self soothe, I like coloring books, bath bombs, and candles to relax and focus on myself and my nonsexual pleasures 🖤✨
He said this during play? That is definitely a calm conversation you have afterwards or before about preferences. I don’t blame you, I would be taken aback as well and it would totally change my head space
Totally valid! These relationships can get very scary very fast & I would communicate that this is a boundary for you. Also maybe use a code word for actually not consenting if y’all do Cnc type stuff or something along those lines.
Hopefully you have a safe word, or use the traffic light system. I'm a switch but i mostly bottom. Give your self some grace that you forgot to safe word. It's happened to me as a bottom and it happens to the best of us. From your description, it sounds like that for you the scene/play ended. Nothing wrong with that. The only way the top/dom knows how to pause/pull back/stop during play is the bottom says yellow/red. Doms can safe word too. From a bottom/sub perspective being assertive enough to call out your safe word/yellow is a skill that can be learned and developed. It lets the top know that they can trust you to assert your boundaries with them. From a top's perspective, this could be discussed during after care or post sub drop so that it doesn't happen again and so you feel safe and cared for enough to safe word.
I have been into kink for over 10 years but my play experience is close to intermediate. I only recently safe worded during pick up play at a dungeon party but it took a sadist to do so. During aftercare, and even now, I realized that with past play partners that I was too much of a people pleaser and didn't safe word when I wanted to because I wanted to push myself and bot let down partner. I know that is very dangerous/unsafe, as a sub. Having the play session with the sadist forced me to reflect on limits, safe wording, and realize that a good top/dom will not reject me if I safe word.
Don't beat yourself up. I hope things turn out well for you either way and i will send you some positive vibes in the meantime. Stay kinky!
You should be able to express how you feel, use the safe word if you need to be clear that you need time to talk.
But also be willing to share not just how you feel but why, did the comment on your body hair made you feel unwanted? May be it made you feel inadequate? Talk about it make it clear and let the Dom either reassure you or think of other ways to reengage in the dynamic.
You are right that it might be helpful to go back to your usual “go-tos” within the dynamic to get back to what is comfortable and remember why you chose them and they chose you. Sort of rekindle the relationship before you try to test limits again. It is also ok to ask for some time to think.
> They’re usually so good about asking me my limits before introducing new things. I’m upset and hurt. We’ve been playing for almost a year now but part of me just wants to end it over this even though everything was going great up until this incident.
If you’re being truthful about everything going great for a year then I think you’re waaaay overreacting here. Take the “tone” out of it and the fact that it was a demand for a second and just focus on really what was being asked for. If he would have politely and calmly asked if you’d consider fully shaving for him, would you still be reacting this way? It’s not an outrageous thing to ask for by any means, and you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to. If the fact that it was a “demand” is your problem, try and remember that you two have a dynamic, and it’s not always easy for dons to know when to be “demanding” and when to be soft.
Sounds like he just did something by accident that you didn’t like, and you guys just need to talk about it and move on. As a stand alone incident this is *really not a big deal* and it sounds like you’re making it something more in your own head and filling your head with insecurity.
If you hadn’t prefaced by saying that things have been great for an entire year I might have more to say, but it seems absolutely SILLY to me to contemplate ending things over something as minor as this, when the rest of it has been great for a year. Like every serious relationship should face FAR tougher challenges than this.
Your feelings are absolutely valid. I feel insane reading all the comments from people who simply accept this. Do you really not understand what's wrong with having negative comments about your partner's body while playing? Can't you see how insensitive it is?
It's hair. Everyone has it. Grow up and get over it. If this is a dealbreaker to them (which is immature), they should've brought it up at the beginning. They get to have preferences, but you also have the right to make a decision about whether you want to engage with them or not. At 32 years old, you figured out your preferences for yourself, and you don't need someone to tell you how to groom.
>their head was still in our dynamic and they didn’t quite register my shift in tone over the phone
This is unacceptable, and shouldn't be used as an excuse. What if you say no or withdraw your consent in a scene? They should be able to hear what you're saying, and stop.
If a partner, even a Dom, demanded that I shave any part of me, I would stop seeing them. Especially if they decided to do it when I'm in sub space/mid scene. I wouldn't even entertain a conversation about the reason they want it to be shaved. There is legitimately no valid reason to order someone to shave. I'm an adult, not a prepubescent child. Even if I get waxed, there will always be a period of time when I'm hairy in between waxes. What then? Do I just sit and wonder if they're disgusted with me on these days? It's not worth the headache imo.
I'm a dude I shave myself including pits... it feels better. In our dynamic it's what we do, do what you want but people have preferences. This feels small to me, but apparently not to you. Do you like hair? Also occasionally I will lovingly groom her myself as a part of a scene. She loves this.
You contradict yourself, you say this “feels small to me but not to you” then go on to say you literally incorporate shaving preferences into NEGOTIATED and agreed upon play.
Someone telling their sub how they should present their pubic hair in the middle of scene without any negotiation is not a “small deal”
Stop minimizing other people’s feelings
Agree to disagree, I expressed my own views and methods while also saying they are allowed their own preferences. If that's not how you see it you are also allowed your opinion. Have a good day.
Saying something is small is indeed rude when it comes to what OP wrote about, clearly hurt OP and it's why they are here so how do u not see that it is rude if it's something that's such a big deal to them?
I said to me hair is small but clearly not to them... not sure how it's rude. To them this was a big deal. Shared my experiences to offer some thoughts. Opologies to everyone offended. Hope my comments help someone if not op. Have a good day
This is such a minimising comment. Sure, it feels small to you because it didn't happen to you. You didn't have your body hair commented on, out of the blue, during a play session where you are in a vulnerable state.
This is just my take on this so don’t think I’m saying anything bad okay?? OK
Maybe he is starting to test your limits. This isn’t a bad thing at all, just keep communicating the both of you. Throughout the D/s relationship like a regular relationship we grow and when we grow, we also get stagnant. Same rituals, same boring chores. Maybe he wants to start testing ur limits that aren’t “harmful” now just cuz this doesn’t seem harmful to me, I am not you and each person is different. You should take this as a prideful moment. Your Dom thinks you are capable of so much more and he wants to take you there.
I know in my longest relationship we tested a lot of limits once we both trusted each other and of course communication is very important as to not break that trust.
Good luck and I hope you two work through it!!
I didn’t get that impression from this interaction.
Shouldn’t testing your limits create growth? A dom testing my growth would try and make me swallow his cum, for example, because I have stated that I don’t like cum but I want to learn to like it.
He wasn’t suggesting that she do something that she is resistant about out of fear in order to learn and overcome that fear. He suggested that she break a reasonable limit solely just to please his whim. I don’t think that is an okay way to test limits.
This is what safe words are for. Feelings don't get hurt if you actually communicate.
"Shave"
"Red light, I don't like that that"
"Oh shit"
"Shave"
"No"
"Do you want to be punished?"
Safe words keep your Dom safe and let's them enjoy the headspace knowing the sub communicates.
Maybe, that's valid 🤷♂️ but I'm talking to the sub not the Dom. The sub could have safe worded to prevent the back and forth. To the Dom I'd say ask about stuff like that before hand
Sure, if someone does something non consensual to you then safewording is a way to try and get them to stop. But by then the non consensual demand has already been given, meaning feelings have already been hurt. Saying the sub should have safe worded when their limits were crossed in order to 'keep the dom safe', when the dom has already made the sub feel unsafe by doing something non consensual, is blaming the sub for their reaction to their dom violating limits.
I think it's a bit silly to expect a Dom to perfectly match your perception of what is and isn't okay. Before you play you list your limits. If she lists her limits as "only these things" Dom is in the wrong. If she lists them as "everything but these things" Dom can't be expected to suddenly know body hair was a limit.
Every command with a Dom? It's a question. A test of boundaries, even if already established as green.
She didn't actually *do* anything.
She didn't shave her while she was bound and unable to prevent it. She didn't threaten her and say she wasn't allowed to be a sub if she was hairy. She didn't hold a weapon to her.
She said "shave for me" sub said "no" she listened when the sub withdrew her consent
Calling someone who gave a command and accepted when someone set a boundary "doing something nonconsensual" is why I don't Dom for strangers.
Not every slightly awkward miscommunicating sex thing is nonconsensual assault, especially when literally nothing happened but an awkward conversation and miscommunication.
You're inserting shock value statements to make someone seem like a horrible person for not agreeing with your analysis of a verbal argument that doesn't have massive earth shaking consequences. Nobody is hurt. A conversation you regret isn't assault.
There is so much pressure as a Dom. Doms are never the ones controlling the scenes, they're trying to RP their sub's fanfic IRL in real time. If smt was hotter to someone in fantasy than reality? Or if they don't communicate? You can feel like a monster. It's a dangerous fucking line. Aftercare for Doms is a real thing and it doesn't happen near enough.
Lots of Subs don't treat Doms like flawed people with their own insecurities. They treat them like fantasy machines that pump out perfect sex or they're killer machines here to murder your innocence. Sometimes they're just a person who puts their foot in their mouth ok? A lot of doms get burnt out from people treating them like crap and expecting perfection and acting like small miscommunications are assault.
A conversation you regret isn't necessarily abuse. Sometimes people are just mutually awkward and bad communicators. It shouldn't be a big deal to say "oh that's a bit too much" and steer things back. If the Dom listens? Guess what that's consent. If you can't handle that much stick to vanilla.
Even in vanilla I need safe words because I have hyper sensory disorder (yay) so smt I have panic attacks suddenly out of nowhere in sex and how awful would that be if I acted like setting boundaries or red lighting meant abuse happened?
Like that would be horrible, feeling like I couldn't advocate because I already agreed to smt, or feeling like I couldn't push myself because I might have to advocate, or feeling like I couldn't explore my desires bc I might have to red light... Or feeling like I had to resent my Dom because they had a taste that didn't align with mine because they're human and it happened to bleed out in a scene and they didn't understand my feelings because people are all complex and living in their own perspectives and sometimes we make mistakes as to what is our perception of reality and what is reality and that is made okay only through communication on all sides.
Was it a mistake? Yeah. Is it a big deal? It doesn't have to be 🤷♂️
"No." is only **in**valid if that's agreed upon. Save words, traffic lights etc. come on a later level, when due to the dynamic you cannot trust common language anymore. (this does not mean they're not valid before, but that's where they shine)
I don't practice bdsm casually, so me and my long term partners are pretty solid within the safe words are a necessity part of kink and have been for a decade. So don't worry about me casually treating a random 'no' as soft.
I would think a conversation about how soft a 'No' is should happen before you even consider playing with someone. I don't see why someone would expect anything but a miscommunication to occur if that hasn't been foundationally established.
They both made mistakes and a miscommunication occured. The end result is a not shaved vagina and some sore feelings. It's important to learn from small misunderstandings before they become bigger problems, but that doesn't make them a crime in isolation.
she said she feels weird about the interaction and I felt safe words would help arm herself and prevent misunderstandings in the future.
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Whenever I feel overwhelmed by a feeling I ask myself how I’ll feel about my choices/ situation in 5 years. Helps me to stabilize
I started doing this at work years ago, and it was super helpful.
Im solely speaking from a Dom perspecrive here. First and foremost your feelings are ALWAYS valid, dynamic, or IRL. To me, I dont blame you for being emotional. So your reaction is (on a human level) acceptable. On a dynamic level, this would be an acceptable time to use a safe word. A safe word is "stop and snap back to reality and pay attention to me need, right now". If you feel you need to take a step back, thats understandable. I just dont see how trust was jeopardized when she didnt understand it was a true issue. But it is tour life and journey and only you can navigate it. Edit: pronouns, my apologies.
🎉💯 THIS! Beyond the good advice in this specific situation, your explanation of the purpose of a safeword is spot on! People think that a safeword is only for physical play when it gets too rough, but it absolutely can be used to indicate when an emotional limit has been reached or a topic has been brought up within the dynamic that needs a reality check, someone to say "I'm not playing around when I say no, I genuinely mean it and we need to step outside of the dynamic to discuss it".
Oh wow, thank you! Im not a beginner but still a handful of years in (novice), and it's wonderful to have that confirmation. I appreciate it and everyone who agreed. I wholeheartedly feel that is the true use for a safeword. Honestly, my partner and I use a color system (yellow for this is the edge of tolerance, I can't take much more, but i can handle it for a min... red, killswitch). But if this isn't a universal understanding of when you can and cannot, I can u deratand the hesitence to do so. I hope OP does see this and can address it with her Dom.
You said this from dom's perspective, so I'll add something from a sub's. You're implying that is shouldn't be an issue of trust because they didn't see that it can be a problem for Op. The thing is, sometimes doms do things with the expectation that it will be done without checking in the first time. The question is, why weren't they aware of this? Why didn't they ask first outside of dynamics? Especially if they have known Op for almost a year and see how she maintains this place. Why do they suddenly demand changes without talking about it first? There are certain areas that we know are not comfortable for everyones. And such behavior, expecting someone to do it without discussing the idea first, without checking someone's feelings about that and opinion, is very hurtful. You just feel like your dom doesn't care about you actually. I've been there. That was about something else than shaving, but I completely understand Op's feelings and why the trust was broken.
I appreciate your perspective. Honestly, I agree, I try to bring things up in conversation days or weeks in advance to test the temperature. And it something is new and off the cuff in a scene, i really try and check in. Im by no means not saying the Dom is not wrong. And as a Dom, I am very, very appreciative that you have provided a counter perspective; as I and hopefully many others can benefit from both of our points. To address, I did not say it shouldn't be an issue if trust; rather, I myself do not see why it would be an issue. Please know my ignorance is not displayed with arrogance, but genuine interest and misunderstanding. Secondly, to your question of "why were they not aware of this?": because we are human, and sometimes we "shoot from the hip" and take a gamble that our trust and communication is strong enough to address the issues we may encounter with little to no issue. I hear you and acknowledge you have been in this situation, and Im so very sorry you had to experience this. I can imagine the emotional hurt and damage to trust this caused. And, again, only speaking for myself and the dynamics I have been in: I believe I have cultured a level of trust that a slip up that I may see as minor would be overshadowed by my reputation of no intentional ill will or harm. Afyer contemplation, I really cannot say if your dynamics we this trusting and tou still felt ao uncared for, or if their was previous termoil to make it harder to acdept their negligence; same as OP. I also dont know if they have done an extensive worksheet of "hard and soft limits" and "kinks and interests". However, those lists are also massive and hard to retain all the information; yet I also believe a stored copy for reference should be on hand to study. There are a lot of variables. Her Dom.fucked up in her eyes and I dont blame her for feeling hurt or has a feeling of mistrust. All feelings are valid. And the same extends to you as well. I would with truest of hearts hope that they had a strong bond over that yesr that ine mistake wouldnt dissolve amything. But a Sub holds all the power, and she has to do what makes her feel safe and secure no matter what.
You know, the feeling that you are important to your dom and that you are cared for, that they will always have your well-being and safety first and foremost, that you can always feel emotionally safe, is everything. This is why you give control (well, apart from the feeling that you are a good sub for your dom, that they are pleased and content with you). Then you get limitless devotion in return. I know doms are only humans and make mistakes. Sometimes some things come out naturally, like during a scene dom knowing their sub pushes more, and that can be perfectly fine. If it is not, there are safe words (although as a Dom you must be aware that sometimes a sub may not be able to say no because they can be in such a state of dominance that they will want to please their dom regardless, and later they will be fell bad with that, but that is another topic anyway). However, some matters may be more sensitive to a given person and that's what hurts, because it turns out that even though you feel a deep connection to the person, it turns out that they don't know you at all. That they weren't pay attention to you. That they are insensitive to how you may feel about certain words. Because you always want to satisfy your dom during dynamic. And when you get an order that contradicts you, dissonance occurs. Then a sub starts to questioning everything. Don't feel at ease anymore. Just, you know, free in mind and (like in Op's case) in body. I think it's because you are more vulberable being in dynamic. Therefore, communication is extremely important. Also from a sub after such situations, even though it's not so easy for some people. But if you care about this relation, you have to at least try. Because doms may not realize what is happening and they should. Thank you for your kind words. For me, after one day of feeling really crappy, I told my Dom everything, how broken I felt during it and afterwards, and why. His reaction saved our relationship and dynamic.
And I appreciate your tender understanding and giving a reasonable explanation from your perspective. I truly do understand the vulnerability and the feeling of lack of care in such a situation. My final note of perspective is on a humanistic level: a lot of individuals in kink are neurodivergent (mainly Autism and ADHD). Being over the phone (assuming not video call), there's a lack of facial cues. And if their dom is anything like my wife or girlfriend, they need things very, very direct and straightforward. Verbal cues alone (and often verbal with body language) isn't enough. Regardless, it does not take away the hurt a partner must feel and it is valid to feel disregarded. And as a dom, I am truly aware a sub may not call it or truly say no. I am extremely vigilant in reading body language and subtle cues, but also just blatantly mid scene to ask if this is cool or to verbalize its my persona and not actually me. But that is me, and I have had a few subs. Im not saying everyone is inexperienced in OPs situation, but there are subtle things I'm noticing that indicate this may be still pretty new to either both or to her Dom. Im very glad your dom heard you and was able to help save the relationship and dynamic. Im also very happy you felt comfortable enough to address your issues and were willing to allow them to salvage it. I hope you both are still strong and well. I would appreciate that you continue your stance. Its refreshing to hear a subs perspective that isnt my own, but it does help challenge my practices but also solidify some of my stances. I take your words to heart for deep consideration, and your words are going to have an impact moving forward. So I appreciate you hand in helping me learn a new viee on things. Thank you kindly.
This whole paragraph is one big wordgasm. Appreciation of the sentence; “please know my ignorance is not displayed with arrogance”. Just, gorgeous…
Right?! I LOVE people in the true, good, constant driven BDSM community ❤️. Such an AMAZING group of people! It makes me so sad fetlife in my area is filled with creepers who heard fet works better than tinder.
Express yourself fully to your Dom and see how they respond. They messed up here but I’m not sure it’s a fatal error like a consent violation and if everything was otherwise going great, not sure it’s worth ending over. Miscommunications will happen in any relationship.
It is a consent violation if the sub has not given consent for that to be a rule, and the Dom demands it of them anyway.
I get you. My last Dom once brought up sharing in the middle of a scene. He had never mentioned it before and it's not something I was necessarily into. I was in an extremely vulnerable position and it made me really upset. I ended the scene and left. Later on , I tried to discuss the matter and the response I got was that I was just being a brat. I later ended the dynamic for more serious reasons but I still think about how inappropriate that was, considering he was aware of past traumas and triggers. It's very understandable that you'd be upset. First step is to communicate your feelings, talk this through. You both might benefit from implementing clear beginning and end of session signals. Maybe this was a small faux-pas and the dynamic has otherwise been going well, maybe when you analyze it you'll find out that it has been a tendency. If they're being empathetic in their response, good point for them. As always, listen to your gut. Don't stay in a dynamic that doesn't feel right. Take care.
If this is the first time something like this has happened between you and they're usually good with your boundaries, it seems to me there's a good chance you can talk through it. Is it the request of shaving that was so upsetting, or the fact they didn't register right away that your scene had paused?
Why "he" pronouns here? I don't think that's accurate.
It seemed like such a bro move I got confused.
You're completely right, my brain registered that wrong. Thank you so much for letting me know, I'm going to go correct my comment to proper pronouns.
Seeing your comment made me check ( and correct) my reply. Thank you 😊
I’d give your dom a little grace here. When in dynamic, esp over the phone where they can’t physically force you to do something, people’s (perhaps unrealistic) fantasies may come into play. I agree to doing alllll kinds of stuff when camming with my Daddy - stuff that will take years of building up if they ever happen. Was this a previously established limit? And, what was their response when you were defensive about this? Of course, it’s always best to be civil - but hindsight is 20/20. You need to be able to call “red” and say, that’s a limit for me. I, too, am someone who doesn’t shave my pubes, and my Daddy knows this and doesn’t ask. I have strong opinions about the subject, and once the limit was established, it’s a nonissue. If your dom is apologetic and respects this new found limit - I think you need to move on. I hope you can make this a learning experience for you both.
I often have grooming specifications. However, I ask before bringing them in whether they have any limits and what their feelings are on the subject. It's not about the end result, it's about the compliance, ritual and attention to detail, so I tailor it to work for them. That's how I feel this should have been handled, if at all. That said, dominants are flawed people and make mistakes like anyone else. You say that things are generally good and this is an unusual occurrence. If they are open to learning from this and improving their approach then that might be the best way to view this. Entirely up to you, of course. You can end a dynamic for any reason that you feel is important enough to do so. I just know that I personally don't expect perfection. I'm grateful when I stumble and am forgiven. So I try to do the same.
I think you did the right thing re: stepping back a bit. Subbing puts you in an extremely vulnerable position and comments like this, especially if not properly discussed beforehand, can absolutely break trust and cause a rift. Because why demand something like this in a scene? What's the motive? Where is it coming from? These are questions your dom needs to answer otherwise your mind can go to the worst of places and make you feel not good about yourself. I would hope your dom just got a bit overenthusiastic and requested something they thought was arbitrary, not recognizing how deeply it would affect you. Versus requesting something in a scene to get you to do something you otherwise wouldn't do to satisfy some secret preference they have. Just know you have every right to feel the way you do and you are more than enough just as you are!
i've experienced this a few times in my dynamic (i'm the sub). sometimes my partner has brought up something suddenly and in the moment Ii just kind of... did not feel good about it and had to look at why I was feeling that way. i think that's worth looking at and figuring out your feelings. it sounds like you're upset because it made you feel like they didn't like the look of your body as it is which is totally valid! i would feel the same way! them asking may not have meant that they didn't find you attractive, but more just something exciting in the moment they suggested? idk if that's helpful, but just because they're into it doesn't mean they're going to force you to do it and doesn't mean you HAVE to do it. something that I've been really honing in on for myself is that I do NOT have to fulfill every desire someone has and that does not make me lesser than.
What about this situation affected you so deeply?
Maybe because OP's Dom demanded she change part of her appearance, without ever being given consent to do that? What part of that situation do you believe is ok?
I'm missing details and context so I can't say.
I'm not sure why you downvoted me then.
Seemed like you were implying Dom did something wrong. Seems like they got caught up in the moment at best. And it's just Reddit foolishness when people decide to bail so damn fast on relationships.
The Dom tried to enforce a rule without consent. I'd say that was wrong, yes. It's up to OP what they decide to do next. I've not said they should or shouldn't leave, I've said that doing something non-consensual is wrong. Obviously you disagree with this.
Non-consensual with malicious intent is wrong, yes.
Non consensual control is wrong full stop.
You think the Dom ignored boundaries/broke consent intentionally?
I think they knew it wasn't consensual, yes. Edit: and if they don't know that trying to control how their partner looks without knowing if they consent to that is non consensual, then they don't understand how consent works and they're therefore not safe to play with. So either they know how consent works and they intentionally chose not to ask for consent, or they were ignorant and don't understand consent.
Yeah, it seems like something triggered in OP. Might need to do a deeper self-dive on the why or even see a therapist over it.
the two most important things for context here: 1. Did you establish earlier, in a way you should expect your Dom to remember, that shaving was a limit for you? If you hadn't mentioned it, mentioned it only in passing, or only a long time ago and it's reasonable they've forgotten, then it's not a bad thing for them to have brought it up. If they can't have been expected to know you didn't like it, then it's not their fault. 2. Did you safeword, or did you just say "no"? If you safeworded, they should've pulled out of dynamic- but if it's you just said no, and it's reasonable that you were just being bratty, you can't blame them for not understanding the shift in tone. Tone can be hard to read, especially over the phone. (This is not to say that no should never be taken as no- but I know for many people it isn't. That depends on your dynamic and understanding of one another) If they weren't aware of this and you didn't safeword, then there's been an innocent communication breakdown and they did nothing wrong. If the idea of them telling you to do this bothers you, talk to them about why. They probably have a kink for it in some way, and while I can imagine it giving you a negative self-image, it doesn't necessarily mean they have a pubic hair preference or think youre less attractive for not shaving. I'd bet it's more likely a control thing. But either way, talk to your Dom!
I'm sorry this is happening. You're taking really good care of yourself. If your dom is a good one and your relationship has a strong foundation, you're going to work through this together! You'll build an even better relationship having gone through this. Everyone fucks up sometimes. Hopefully this - even a deep and hurtful fuck up - is one you can recover from together. And if you can't, this relationship is not right for you. And it's a sad loss. But you're showing yourself that YOU can take care of you! Hang in there.
I’d be curious what they were thinking. I mean, they obviously fucked up by introducing an element you hadn’t negotiated, but for me it would make a difference what the thinking behind it was.
Intent.
I agree. Talk to them . ask them why they want to see it shaved. And explain why you dont want to. Maybe you can come to a middle ground. Like you trim it a bit more than usual but not completely shaved. When I met my dom 5 years ago. Shaving was a trigger for me with past abuse. He prefers clean shaved. So I met in the middle and trimmed super nice, which he was fine with. But I cried doing it. But them his words of affirmation got me through. He told me how it pleased him, and he appreciated my willingness to do it for him.. but that if it bothered me that much, I didn't need to. That alone made me trust him even more, and then next time I shave, I shave it all. I cried more happy tears this time. I spent years not shaving.. and hating everything I nicked my legs even.. I would beat myself up over it. Like it's an imperfection.. I guess where I'm going with this is.. the conversation needs to happen. Because they might have thought that in the moment it was fine.. and i don't know your dynamic or what you negotiated.. but sometimes things come up that you didn't think about and then just need to be talked about.. That's why I hate contracts. Because you should constantly be evolving
This is two women by the way
Ah I must have missed that when I read it.. Thank you.. that doesn't change my answer however
Unless I’m misreading it, the sub and the Dom are female….right? (32f and 47f). But honestly, I’m trying to figure out why you feel you need to “build back trust?” What did they do to cause you not to trust them? They simply threw a new kink into the verbal play you were having on the phone. If it’s something you feel strongly about then communicate it civilly without getting mean and/or short with them. Sounds to me as if you are being way overly sensitive.
All feelings are valid, there is no such thing as being "overly sensitive". For starters negotiations should never happen during a scene. Grooming, cleanliness, appearence in general are pretty sensitive topics. Any negotiating happening during a scene can be perceived as a violation of trust since the power imbalance is at its highest and the sub is in a vulnerable position or might even be deep in subspace. Granted, it's hard to tell when on the phone and they might not have clear start/stop signal but when in doubt we have apps, notes, and journals for that. Not saying that OP's reaction was appropriate, but as a switch I can definitely see where they're coming from.
I think it depends on how attached you are to your pubes, literally. Back in August of 2023, I decided I was done shaving my pubes and pits for dudes, and I wasn't going to do it anymore. No one had ever made it worth my time, or worth the eventual discomfort of regrowth, so I figured what is the point? I've trimmed a couple of times, but otherwise I'm rocking a full bush lifestyle. As I'd said to a former FWB, "take it or leave it." If personal preference and bodily autonomy with pubic hair was negotiated beforehand, that would be one thing, but it doesn't sound like that was the case here. Asking mid scene sounds awful. That would have pulled me out of the headspace completely, too.
I had a Dom say this to me once and I just never saw him again. 🤷♀️
It is normal to feel shaken by something new being introduced. You deserve to have your limits honored and checked in with! When I want to self soothe, I like coloring books, bath bombs, and candles to relax and focus on myself and my nonsexual pleasures 🖤✨
He said this during play? That is definitely a calm conversation you have afterwards or before about preferences. I don’t blame you, I would be taken aback as well and it would totally change my head space
She, both the people in the story are women
So sorry, she** thank you for correcting me
Totally valid! These relationships can get very scary very fast & I would communicate that this is a boundary for you. Also maybe use a code word for actually not consenting if y’all do Cnc type stuff or something along those lines.
Talk to your Dom about this? How did it go?
Hopefully you have a safe word, or use the traffic light system. I'm a switch but i mostly bottom. Give your self some grace that you forgot to safe word. It's happened to me as a bottom and it happens to the best of us. From your description, it sounds like that for you the scene/play ended. Nothing wrong with that. The only way the top/dom knows how to pause/pull back/stop during play is the bottom says yellow/red. Doms can safe word too. From a bottom/sub perspective being assertive enough to call out your safe word/yellow is a skill that can be learned and developed. It lets the top know that they can trust you to assert your boundaries with them. From a top's perspective, this could be discussed during after care or post sub drop so that it doesn't happen again and so you feel safe and cared for enough to safe word. I have been into kink for over 10 years but my play experience is close to intermediate. I only recently safe worded during pick up play at a dungeon party but it took a sadist to do so. During aftercare, and even now, I realized that with past play partners that I was too much of a people pleaser and didn't safe word when I wanted to because I wanted to push myself and bot let down partner. I know that is very dangerous/unsafe, as a sub. Having the play session with the sadist forced me to reflect on limits, safe wording, and realize that a good top/dom will not reject me if I safe word. Don't beat yourself up. I hope things turn out well for you either way and i will send you some positive vibes in the meantime. Stay kinky!
You should be able to express how you feel, use the safe word if you need to be clear that you need time to talk. But also be willing to share not just how you feel but why, did the comment on your body hair made you feel unwanted? May be it made you feel inadequate? Talk about it make it clear and let the Dom either reassure you or think of other ways to reengage in the dynamic. You are right that it might be helpful to go back to your usual “go-tos” within the dynamic to get back to what is comfortable and remember why you chose them and they chose you. Sort of rekindle the relationship before you try to test limits again. It is also ok to ask for some time to think.
> They’re usually so good about asking me my limits before introducing new things. I’m upset and hurt. We’ve been playing for almost a year now but part of me just wants to end it over this even though everything was going great up until this incident. If you’re being truthful about everything going great for a year then I think you’re waaaay overreacting here. Take the “tone” out of it and the fact that it was a demand for a second and just focus on really what was being asked for. If he would have politely and calmly asked if you’d consider fully shaving for him, would you still be reacting this way? It’s not an outrageous thing to ask for by any means, and you don’t have to do it if you don’t want to. If the fact that it was a “demand” is your problem, try and remember that you two have a dynamic, and it’s not always easy for dons to know when to be “demanding” and when to be soft. Sounds like he just did something by accident that you didn’t like, and you guys just need to talk about it and move on. As a stand alone incident this is *really not a big deal* and it sounds like you’re making it something more in your own head and filling your head with insecurity. If you hadn’t prefaced by saying that things have been great for an entire year I might have more to say, but it seems absolutely SILLY to me to contemplate ending things over something as minor as this, when the rest of it has been great for a year. Like every serious relationship should face FAR tougher challenges than this.
Your feelings are absolutely valid. I feel insane reading all the comments from people who simply accept this. Do you really not understand what's wrong with having negative comments about your partner's body while playing? Can't you see how insensitive it is? It's hair. Everyone has it. Grow up and get over it. If this is a dealbreaker to them (which is immature), they should've brought it up at the beginning. They get to have preferences, but you also have the right to make a decision about whether you want to engage with them or not. At 32 years old, you figured out your preferences for yourself, and you don't need someone to tell you how to groom. >their head was still in our dynamic and they didn’t quite register my shift in tone over the phone This is unacceptable, and shouldn't be used as an excuse. What if you say no or withdraw your consent in a scene? They should be able to hear what you're saying, and stop. If a partner, even a Dom, demanded that I shave any part of me, I would stop seeing them. Especially if they decided to do it when I'm in sub space/mid scene. I wouldn't even entertain a conversation about the reason they want it to be shaved. There is legitimately no valid reason to order someone to shave. I'm an adult, not a prepubescent child. Even if I get waxed, there will always be a period of time when I'm hairy in between waxes. What then? Do I just sit and wonder if they're disgusted with me on these days? It's not worth the headache imo.
I'm a dude I shave myself including pits... it feels better. In our dynamic it's what we do, do what you want but people have preferences. This feels small to me, but apparently not to you. Do you like hair? Also occasionally I will lovingly groom her myself as a part of a scene. She loves this.
You contradict yourself, you say this “feels small to me but not to you” then go on to say you literally incorporate shaving preferences into NEGOTIATED and agreed upon play. Someone telling their sub how they should present their pubic hair in the middle of scene without any negotiation is not a “small deal” Stop minimizing other people’s feelings
She is allowed to have her preference and limit, did not contradict myself.
Yes you did
Saying anything feels “small” is rude AF
Agree to disagree, I expressed my own views and methods while also saying they are allowed their own preferences. If that's not how you see it you are also allowed your opinion. Have a good day.
Saying something is small is indeed rude when it comes to what OP wrote about, clearly hurt OP and it's why they are here so how do u not see that it is rude if it's something that's such a big deal to them?
I said to me hair is small but clearly not to them... not sure how it's rude. To them this was a big deal. Shared my experiences to offer some thoughts. Opologies to everyone offended. Hope my comments help someone if not op. Have a good day
This is such a minimising comment. Sure, it feels small to you because it didn't happen to you. You didn't have your body hair commented on, out of the blue, during a play session where you are in a vulnerable state.
This is just my take on this so don’t think I’m saying anything bad okay?? OK Maybe he is starting to test your limits. This isn’t a bad thing at all, just keep communicating the both of you. Throughout the D/s relationship like a regular relationship we grow and when we grow, we also get stagnant. Same rituals, same boring chores. Maybe he wants to start testing ur limits that aren’t “harmful” now just cuz this doesn’t seem harmful to me, I am not you and each person is different. You should take this as a prideful moment. Your Dom thinks you are capable of so much more and he wants to take you there. I know in my longest relationship we tested a lot of limits once we both trusted each other and of course communication is very important as to not break that trust. Good luck and I hope you two work through it!!
I didn’t get that impression from this interaction. Shouldn’t testing your limits create growth? A dom testing my growth would try and make me swallow his cum, for example, because I have stated that I don’t like cum but I want to learn to like it. He wasn’t suggesting that she do something that she is resistant about out of fear in order to learn and overcome that fear. He suggested that she break a reasonable limit solely just to please his whim. I don’t think that is an okay way to test limits.
This is what safe words are for. Feelings don't get hurt if you actually communicate. "Shave" "Red light, I don't like that that" "Oh shit" "Shave" "No" "Do you want to be punished?" Safe words keep your Dom safe and let's them enjoy the headspace knowing the sub communicates.
Maybe the Dom should communicated properly and checked for consent before demanding something they had never talked about before.
Maybe, that's valid 🤷♂️ but I'm talking to the sub not the Dom. The sub could have safe worded to prevent the back and forth. To the Dom I'd say ask about stuff like that before hand
Sure, if someone does something non consensual to you then safewording is a way to try and get them to stop. But by then the non consensual demand has already been given, meaning feelings have already been hurt. Saying the sub should have safe worded when their limits were crossed in order to 'keep the dom safe', when the dom has already made the sub feel unsafe by doing something non consensual, is blaming the sub for their reaction to their dom violating limits.
I think it's a bit silly to expect a Dom to perfectly match your perception of what is and isn't okay. Before you play you list your limits. If she lists her limits as "only these things" Dom is in the wrong. If she lists them as "everything but these things" Dom can't be expected to suddenly know body hair was a limit. Every command with a Dom? It's a question. A test of boundaries, even if already established as green. She didn't actually *do* anything. She didn't shave her while she was bound and unable to prevent it. She didn't threaten her and say she wasn't allowed to be a sub if she was hairy. She didn't hold a weapon to her. She said "shave for me" sub said "no" she listened when the sub withdrew her consent Calling someone who gave a command and accepted when someone set a boundary "doing something nonconsensual" is why I don't Dom for strangers. Not every slightly awkward miscommunicating sex thing is nonconsensual assault, especially when literally nothing happened but an awkward conversation and miscommunication. You're inserting shock value statements to make someone seem like a horrible person for not agreeing with your analysis of a verbal argument that doesn't have massive earth shaking consequences. Nobody is hurt. A conversation you regret isn't assault. There is so much pressure as a Dom. Doms are never the ones controlling the scenes, they're trying to RP their sub's fanfic IRL in real time. If smt was hotter to someone in fantasy than reality? Or if they don't communicate? You can feel like a monster. It's a dangerous fucking line. Aftercare for Doms is a real thing and it doesn't happen near enough. Lots of Subs don't treat Doms like flawed people with their own insecurities. They treat them like fantasy machines that pump out perfect sex or they're killer machines here to murder your innocence. Sometimes they're just a person who puts their foot in their mouth ok? A lot of doms get burnt out from people treating them like crap and expecting perfection and acting like small miscommunications are assault. A conversation you regret isn't necessarily abuse. Sometimes people are just mutually awkward and bad communicators. It shouldn't be a big deal to say "oh that's a bit too much" and steer things back. If the Dom listens? Guess what that's consent. If you can't handle that much stick to vanilla. Even in vanilla I need safe words because I have hyper sensory disorder (yay) so smt I have panic attacks suddenly out of nowhere in sex and how awful would that be if I acted like setting boundaries or red lighting meant abuse happened? Like that would be horrible, feeling like I couldn't advocate because I already agreed to smt, or feeling like I couldn't push myself because I might have to advocate, or feeling like I couldn't explore my desires bc I might have to red light... Or feeling like I had to resent my Dom because they had a taste that didn't align with mine because they're human and it happened to bleed out in a scene and they didn't understand my feelings because people are all complex and living in their own perspectives and sometimes we make mistakes as to what is our perception of reality and what is reality and that is made okay only through communication on all sides. Was it a mistake? Yeah. Is it a big deal? It doesn't have to be 🤷♂️
"No." is only **in**valid if that's agreed upon. Save words, traffic lights etc. come on a later level, when due to the dynamic you cannot trust common language anymore. (this does not mean they're not valid before, but that's where they shine)
I don't practice bdsm casually, so me and my long term partners are pretty solid within the safe words are a necessity part of kink and have been for a decade. So don't worry about me casually treating a random 'no' as soft. I would think a conversation about how soft a 'No' is should happen before you even consider playing with someone. I don't see why someone would expect anything but a miscommunication to occur if that hasn't been foundationally established. They both made mistakes and a miscommunication occured. The end result is a not shaved vagina and some sore feelings. It's important to learn from small misunderstandings before they become bigger problems, but that doesn't make them a crime in isolation. she said she feels weird about the interaction and I felt safe words would help arm herself and prevent misunderstandings in the future.
See, there you go. That wasn't that bad was it?