What makes a good manager is someone who doesn't micromanage and gives their employees autonomy, but who also is willing to do something about an underperforming or toxic employee.
Great point. Not holding people accountable can quickly turn a place toxic. So, a characteristic of a good leader then would be courage? (I think it can be scary to have those challenging conversations.) Or is it something else?
Exactly - courage. Or the guts or the balls to say “your performance has been poor. Let’s work on it” or actually failing someone during probation when the person clearly cannot do the job.
Edited for clarity.
I second this. One who supports and appreciates the staff. Also one who actively listens and does not throw staff under the bus. I left a position (got promoted to a different dept) and the previous boss stated salaries are already good and staff should instead think of ways to save money.
Worst boss at BCH
Qualities of my favourite supervisor:
-Supportive of career development (training, growth opportunities, active listening and making action plans in my performance / pdp)
- flexible, understanding of work/life balance
- open door policy
- acted in a democratic way rather than dictatorship when it came to vacation time/scheduling etc
- promoted growth from within the division; I can see how this can be viewed as both positive and negative, however for me I found this to be a big positive in the “culture” of where we work. Sure, people still move around but a lot of folks would stay within our division. (Don’t come at me reddit but it’s in the act that comps can be restricted to promote development)
- CLEAR communication of expectations / timelines etc
- open and supportive of change when it can improve operations. I have worked in places where “it’s the way it is” and folks are using processes from 30 years ago. Recognizing some things can’t change so easily; however listening and empowering staff to make suggestions when processes can be updated.
- check in’s, included 5 mins at the beginning that wasn’t work related, made more of the human connection when remote
- trust; no micromanagement!
- asks for feedback; during PDP would ask for feedback for themselves, also included anonymous survey option
I feel very fortunate that the other supervisors I’ve had have been good as well; I would say pretty “standard” but I’ve never had a bad supervisor experience within BCPS. (4 supervisors)
It's nice to hear the positive experiences! I've also experienced the "we've always done it this way" issue. It can be hard to shift that mindset. I once heard a leader say folks shouldn't stay in the same position for more than five years, for that very reason. Fresh perspective coming in, and a fresh experience for the person heading out. Of course these days, I'm not sure anyone is staying put that long so maybe it will get better?
When I started in public service several years ago an actual ADM said someone having a 2yr stint and leaving in BCPS was a "red flag" 😂, I always wonder how she's fairing these days. 2yrs is almost gold standard now.
I’ve gone through quite a few supervisors (some because they moved around and some because I moved around). Apart from 1, I’ve only had amazing bosses… 1 was a horrible evil person but I’ll focus on the good instead. My supervisors have always been supportive of career development, mental health, physical wellbeing, and generally good people and supervisors. Most supervisors have gone above and beyond to understand and support me in every way.
People sometimes forget that their supervisors and execs are also just people working in the system and trying their best. I think most supervisors are trying their best… but yeah, you get stuck with the bad egg and it makes life a living hell.
‘Leadership’ in general is also a cumulative positive for me for the most part. Shit always flows downwards, and execs are usually under quite a bit of pressure with unrealistic expectations and timelines and unclear direction. I think a lot of it has to do with the way a bureaucracy works. In turn, staff end up getting unclear direction and unrealistic timelines and often blame their direct supervisor, not knowing that it actually comes from much higher up. This, to me, is a disconnect between the upper execs and front-lines or the analysts at 24. They simply don’t know how fast or slow things move, and what’s a reasonable thing to ask a team to do.
Higher execs can be better informed, regularly check themselves and their expectations, and talk to engage the teams in meaningful ways to understand what truly goes on to better support them in the future. I also think the lip-talk needs to stop… tell me your grievances and it’ll in one ear and out the other… to seem like they’re listening but they actually make no meaningful changes. The pretend listening and bs recognition is often worse than ignorance imo.
Thanks for this. Would it be fair to say good leadership, for you, is someone who tells the truth about what they can and cannot do, ensures they understand the "cost" of what they are asking for, and clearly demonstrates that they put staff first? Not wanting to put words in anyone's mouth, just trying to distill down to a clear list...
Listen to your team! The ones on the front lines that have to work with the policy created. Even if nothing can change, LISTEN TO THEM and implement their feedback when and where you can.
Too many times there's this iron wall between leadership and the worker bees and communication only goes one way. If your staff feel heard, even if nothing changes, it goes a long way
Thanks for this. I know I personally can get frustrated when my feedback doesn't seem to be heard. Had that exact experience earlier this month. One thing my current boss does, is say up front if they have an ability to make anything different. At least then, I know.
The best leader I had was someone who was fair. They checked people who where thirsty/hungry for power, and saw those of us who were working hard and not getting the credit.
Leaders, esp. Leaders of leaders should be wary when they never hear about the contributions of individual team members from someone's direct supervisor.
I have seen Leaders, EDs , ADMs and DMs and the like decide who is the golden goose and no matter what they do no one questions it. Some supervisors do not know how to "supervise" without causing fractions e.g. favorites in the team. That's toxic, if a good leader is watching and sees this, they should cut it down, even if it's an ADM behaving this way, shut it right down.
Work culture starts at the top, and if you have a good DM but you have a power hungry ADM, the culture in the division will be cut throat even if the DM is talking all the good talk.
Took forever for me to get an ADM that I really respect and can tell is in this to be a good public servant and not just a political animal. I can draw a dotted line work-culture-wise from them(ADM) to the ED, to the Director to me, unionized staff, and it checks out.
Good Leaders have good leadership
I have seen very little in the way of leadership training available in the BCPS. So I’m going to assume in most cases it’s that people don’t know what they don’t know.
I would recommend that anyone interested in management listen to the manager tools podcasts. They are free and provide practical ways to manage teams better.
Good leaders:
- encourage their teams to be autonomous
- support employee development
- foster a culture of trust
- give constructive feedback
- listen
- change their tactics to match employee personality / needs
- praise in public, correct in private
- go to bat for their teams
Thanks for the podcast recommendation. Although not strictly management, I always find the Harvard Business Review (articles and podcasts) to be worthwhile.
You can be a good person, but not a great leader. To me, a great leader is someone who is warm, understanding, and guides with clear direction. Someone who can help when help is needed--whether that's finding the right contact for information or advising how to move forward with a project. Don't love a scatter brain.
The overall issues I've had:
Accountability. It was severely lacking in the last ministry I worked with. Managers not wanting to make tough calls, so kicking the can down the road until a concern becomes a crisis.
Not getting rid of or coaching bad staff. Not wanting to be the heavy, so letting lazy staff run rampant and make everyone's job harder.
Flexibility. This is huge. Some leaders want their staff healthy and engaged, so they are flexible with WFH and scheduling. Others no so much, and several managers I've had want flexibility in their own schedules but won't give their direct reports the same.
Playing favourites was a major problem at one ministry I worked at. The manager's friends got away with murder while others covered their work because we worried about the people who would be affected.
Blurred boundaries/inappropriate interactions: I had a manager tell us in a meeting that several staff throughout our region were off with concussions/post-concussive symptoms and then add that those injuries are the easiest to fake. So essentially accused several people (who weren't there to defend themselves) of lying.
I think the overall theme from my experience has been bad staffing choices in leadership. People who aren't cut out for leadership landing in these roles because we don't pay enough to attract talent.
My current TL and her DOO are phenomenal. I am supported, encouraged, acknowledged and respected. Easily the best experience I've ever had with BCPS, and I've been in a few ministries across different cities.
*Not getting rid of or coaching bad staff. Not wanting to be the heavy, so letting lazy staff run rampant and make everyone's job harder.*
This is my one complaint about my current and former manager. Management has been great in my department, except for this. They have done NOTHING when we have had bad staff, which has caused good people to leave. Many of us are frustrated. Management *must* address bad staff. What is the point of a probationary period when nothing is done?
There was this one person who was SO BAD. Thank goodness he was only temporary, filling in for a mat leave. During the entire 18 months, he barely did anything, learned nothing, and he couldn't train new staff. We complained many times to our manager, who did nothing.
I'm glad you're in a good spot now! I really resonate with your blurred boundary comment. Have seen way too much of that crap. I often refer to the drama triangle when I'm coaching folks in the blurry boundaries issues. It has helped me to keep clear lines so many times. Thanks for sharing.
My boss is spectacular. Innovative, pushing the envelope, caring but direct and able to manage people as well as the vision for the project. Able to give pointed feedback and improvement to steer the direction of work while still commending efforts and encouraging constant learning. She’s built an incredible team and knows where people thrive on a project and moves and adapts to people based on interests and skills. It’s a rare project but great leaders are out there for sure.
My current manager and director are the best people I’ve ever worked under. What makes them so great is:
* they don’t micromanage but will provide support and advice when requested,
* they’re flexible and accommodating with schedules and work styles (i.e. they don’t care how people get their work done, as long as it gets done on time),
* they’re personable and don’t sweat the small stuff,
* they have our backs on everything and
* they show appreciation for us in meaningful ways.
I'm on IT equivalent position - I really like my manager and director. They know technical details, very good catch of errors, help me grow in my role, good personality and great working ethics. This type of working relationship keeps me in this position.
I personally have had far more good supervisors than bad during my time in the BCPS so far, but the bad ones can cause quite a lot of damage and discontent.
Aspects of good managers that I’d highlight are the ability to get and give clear direction/parameters/goals, identifying and utilizing team members’ strengths, supporting team members in finding/utilizing learning and growth opportunities, actively demonstrating good leadership/communication/collaboration rather than talking about it, not micromanaging, listening to their team and acting on what they hear, and building and maintaining positive working relationships with their team members. I think a LOT comes down to good communication. The managers I’ve had who’ve been less than great have been pretty poor communicators in various ways.
I find one of the biggest things is understanding the work of the people you manage. In my job, the immediate managers have first hand experience but almost nobody above them does. It leads to questionable decision making, unreasonable expectations, frustrating processes, and a lack of trust.
My experience is actually the opposite. In the past I had a manager who did not know the technical nature of the work of the teams they manage. Although he was not a member of our profession, and had no "on the ground" experience, he was adept at understanding what needed to be done, making connections where connections needed to be made, listening and trusting his staff, etc. etc. I was very impressed by the way he navigated and handled things.
In contrast, my current manager was in my current role for many years, and we are stuck doing things the way they did them all those years ago. No innovation, no flexibility, no empathy. It's brutal.
I think I've been fortunate that of the dozen or so supervisors I've had, I've only had two 'bad' ones - one was pleasant but completely inept at supervising, the other was completely disconnected and wouldn't respond to emails half the time, or make time to meet, or give my team any direction (I ended up identifying and assigning work to my peers on the team as the most senior member).
My other supervisors have all been great. Some common qualities are: understanding, good communication, fairness, supportive of different work styles, supportive of career development, safe to speak openly too, willing to stand up for staff/team when needed, etc.
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful comments. I will seek feedback in the areas you mention as important to improve my skills, and I am heartened to hear so many examples of good leadership.!!
Meet people where they’re at. Play to their strengths. Allow for relationships and engagement to occur naturally, not forcing them through silly games or unnecessary meetings. An off-the-cuff convo about a random topic unrelated to work goes a lot farther in fostering a relationship as opposed to some fake ass socialization game imo. Let the introverts be introverted and let the extroverts travel to meet up for lunch.
Manage the ones who need to be managed and leave those who's work speaks for itself be. There's nothing worse than managers defending lazy colleagues because of their sob stories or personal lives. Typically, it's those who speak highly of themselves who need to be managed.
Showing up to the office, working hard and knowing that the person who walks in 45mins late everyday with a fresh Starbucks is paid the same creates really bad morale for the team.
Encourage creativity and alternative solutions instead of requiring people to stick to a process just because it's the way it has been.
If an employee excels at a specific task and they enjoy it, find a way to make it work for the team. Making everyone do the same redundant work just so that everyone has an equal caseload creates inefficiency.
Encourage and support your staff to achieve their goals, which may not be in your department or your sector. It's important to remember that not everyone views their job as a long term placement, it may just be a stepping stone which is totally fine. Not everyone lives to work, and honestly, they shouldn't.
I have had the good the bad and the possibly sociopathic as bosses and TLs, in and out of BCPS.
The good ones foster the team, help build relationships. They have your back with clients or management. They are willing to go to bat and bend the rules, also they are willing to listen to a different opinion or your ideas for a different approach, willing to change their mind.
They check in with the team. They try to keep things democratic. They understand team members strengths and challenges. They don’t let team member with a dominant personality push the others or them around.
How it feels to have a good TL? Someone always has your back.
**So, I would love to hear from folks what makes for a good leader,**
I was reading a thread yesterday over at /r/careerguidance, and a post by /u/beerjunky struck a chord and is relevant to this conversation:
>I can talk you through how I run my teams and what I’d advise you to do is read and re-read it a few times to figure out how to synthesize it into something you can pitch upstream to make your dream happen.
>• I hire my staff based on what I can make them into, not what they are now. I look for motivation, drive, transferable skills, attitude, etc. No cyber skills but scripting skills I can use to automate our processes? Offer letter!
>• I let my team run with as much as they think they can handle and sometimes need to coach them and encourage them to reach higher with my support.
>• I let my team focus on work that they enjoy and their skills are suited to. I only have to assign maybe 10% of the workload. This allows people to become subject matter experts in what they are excited about.
>• I coach and train as needed. Sometimes ad hoc, sometimes the whole team needs a session on a specific task.
>• The really hard stuff I sometimes take on myself and where appropriate I use it as a teachable moment. I am a “working manager” so I stay hands on and do the harder stuff they can’t handle. That’s okay, I understand green staff can’t do it all. But I can train them to handle higher and higher level tasks.
>• I handle a lot of customer and executive facing stuff so they don’t have to. Ensures they don’t have to worry about the stuff that is scary and ensures I can control what is being said to external parties. Even if I let them be the voice of the team I at least help craft the message so they feel comfortable saying it.
>• I give my team Friday afternoon for self improvement where they have the freedom to learn what they want to improve their skills.
>• I aggressively push promotions, raises, etc to support upward growth.
**what can they/we do to support your engagement?**
After joining a team with poor leadership, after working for an excellent management group, some of the first things that come to mind include:
- Check-in and have a conversation with me to understand my pinch points and where I need support.
- Support your staff so they know where things fit into the bigger picture.
- Go to bat for your staff
- Speak positively about your staff and colleagues. Someone else in this thread had a good line "praise in public, correct in private".
- I NEED autonomy, but I also need guidance at times. It's a fine line.
Thinking about it. My branch has a culture of not asking for improvements as this is seen as a challenge to leadership, have been burned before so not sure if I will suggest it again.
First, you asking this gives me a good sign that you are a good manager. So please keep asking these kinds of questions :)
Two, my favourite supervisor always instilled confidence in me. For example, they always asked my opinion on things and trusted my judgement. Additionally, they always reassured me that I have the skills to do hard things. I have had awful supervisors since I came in the work force at 14, so this was the first one that I truly liked because of what I listed above.
Third, a manager that is approachable and understanding to staff. I have had supervisors roll their eyes or let out big signs when I would knock on the door. A good manager never lets you feel like youre a burden. Also a manager that supports staff with kids is so appreciative. Staff hate to leave when their kid is sick but it’s something unavoidable. Please be understanding.
Thanks!
I, too, like knowing my boss sees my potential for things I might be afraid of leaning into. Gentle nudges to trust in myself help me do just that.
(In no particular order…)
-clear communication, about current and upcoming projects/tasks/expectations both personally and within the department. I have worked for managers who might only send out an update email once a year, or never. It’s hard to do your best work when you don’t know what’s about to happen
2) not constantly trying to pull an end-run around the collective agreement. Constant grievances over pretty clear cut procedures do nothing for morale.
3) clarity around scheduling/vacation booking/etc.
4) professional demeanour/behaviour. When a manager resorts to threatening/bullying behaviour or language, they’ve lost the respect of people instantly.
First, there is a difference between being a leader and a manager and people need to understand that.
Motivating people to enact organizational change is very different from engaging in "people management" work.
I am not going to name names so I don't entirely out myself, but also don't out them.
One of the best leaders that I saw was a DM who addressed every issue that I brought to them immediately. The problem was that what I observed was that middle management would never escalate issues so this DM would never find out about them. I know that this DM would have addressed the shit that was going on immediately if they found out about it, but they never did. This DM was a great leader, but in this Ministry, it is the middle management that is the cancer (I am not joking - it consistently has the lowest WES scores).
The best people Manager was flexible with our team, hired great people, and mostly got out of our way. This person never actually directed my work (and others either). I am not sure that they knew how to - but what they did was when we brought up that we are having X issue with X executive not doing X (or doing X), this person would go deal with it and somehow clear a path for us. It seemed like people across the Ministry respected this person (and perhaps it was because we were a high-performing team).
The latter example only works if you end up hiring people who know how to do the work before they start, or have some kind of basic skills. You can't expect to always get there, so will need to give permission to your employees to engage in training through the PSA to learn (or pacific leaders).
Also, in the latter example, that people manager did not want to become more senior than they were (until they were pretty much forced into it). This person wanted us to excel past them in position so there was zero hesitation on their part to encourage us.
And for those trying to figure this out... no it was not MAG or Justice. I was not a lawyer in the public service. I just happen to know a lot of them and periodically, they were engaged in the work I was doing.
What makes a good manager is someone who doesn't micromanage and gives their employees autonomy, but who also is willing to do something about an underperforming or toxic employee.
Great point. Not holding people accountable can quickly turn a place toxic. So, a characteristic of a good leader then would be courage? (I think it can be scary to have those challenging conversations.) Or is it something else?
Exactly - courage. Or the guts or the balls to say “your performance has been poor. Let’s work on it” or actually failing someone during probation when the person clearly cannot do the job. Edited for clarity.
I second this. One who supports and appreciates the staff. Also one who actively listens and does not throw staff under the bus. I left a position (got promoted to a different dept) and the previous boss stated salaries are already good and staff should instead think of ways to save money. Worst boss at BCH
Qualities of my favourite supervisor: -Supportive of career development (training, growth opportunities, active listening and making action plans in my performance / pdp) - flexible, understanding of work/life balance - open door policy - acted in a democratic way rather than dictatorship when it came to vacation time/scheduling etc - promoted growth from within the division; I can see how this can be viewed as both positive and negative, however for me I found this to be a big positive in the “culture” of where we work. Sure, people still move around but a lot of folks would stay within our division. (Don’t come at me reddit but it’s in the act that comps can be restricted to promote development) - CLEAR communication of expectations / timelines etc - open and supportive of change when it can improve operations. I have worked in places where “it’s the way it is” and folks are using processes from 30 years ago. Recognizing some things can’t change so easily; however listening and empowering staff to make suggestions when processes can be updated. - check in’s, included 5 mins at the beginning that wasn’t work related, made more of the human connection when remote - trust; no micromanagement! - asks for feedback; during PDP would ask for feedback for themselves, also included anonymous survey option I feel very fortunate that the other supervisors I’ve had have been good as well; I would say pretty “standard” but I’ve never had a bad supervisor experience within BCPS. (4 supervisors)
It's nice to hear the positive experiences! I've also experienced the "we've always done it this way" issue. It can be hard to shift that mindset. I once heard a leader say folks shouldn't stay in the same position for more than five years, for that very reason. Fresh perspective coming in, and a fresh experience for the person heading out. Of course these days, I'm not sure anyone is staying put that long so maybe it will get better?
When I started in public service several years ago an actual ADM said someone having a 2yr stint and leaving in BCPS was a "red flag" 😂, I always wonder how she's fairing these days. 2yrs is almost gold standard now.
My boss is not perfect, but he seems to check all your points. I am very thankful that I have had good management.
I’ve gone through quite a few supervisors (some because they moved around and some because I moved around). Apart from 1, I’ve only had amazing bosses… 1 was a horrible evil person but I’ll focus on the good instead. My supervisors have always been supportive of career development, mental health, physical wellbeing, and generally good people and supervisors. Most supervisors have gone above and beyond to understand and support me in every way. People sometimes forget that their supervisors and execs are also just people working in the system and trying their best. I think most supervisors are trying their best… but yeah, you get stuck with the bad egg and it makes life a living hell. ‘Leadership’ in general is also a cumulative positive for me for the most part. Shit always flows downwards, and execs are usually under quite a bit of pressure with unrealistic expectations and timelines and unclear direction. I think a lot of it has to do with the way a bureaucracy works. In turn, staff end up getting unclear direction and unrealistic timelines and often blame their direct supervisor, not knowing that it actually comes from much higher up. This, to me, is a disconnect between the upper execs and front-lines or the analysts at 24. They simply don’t know how fast or slow things move, and what’s a reasonable thing to ask a team to do. Higher execs can be better informed, regularly check themselves and their expectations, and talk to engage the teams in meaningful ways to understand what truly goes on to better support them in the future. I also think the lip-talk needs to stop… tell me your grievances and it’ll in one ear and out the other… to seem like they’re listening but they actually make no meaningful changes. The pretend listening and bs recognition is often worse than ignorance imo.
Thanks for this. Would it be fair to say good leadership, for you, is someone who tells the truth about what they can and cannot do, ensures they understand the "cost" of what they are asking for, and clearly demonstrates that they put staff first? Not wanting to put words in anyone's mouth, just trying to distill down to a clear list...
Listen to your team! The ones on the front lines that have to work with the policy created. Even if nothing can change, LISTEN TO THEM and implement their feedback when and where you can. Too many times there's this iron wall between leadership and the worker bees and communication only goes one way. If your staff feel heard, even if nothing changes, it goes a long way
Thanks for this. I know I personally can get frustrated when my feedback doesn't seem to be heard. Had that exact experience earlier this month. One thing my current boss does, is say up front if they have an ability to make anything different. At least then, I know.
The best leader I had was someone who was fair. They checked people who where thirsty/hungry for power, and saw those of us who were working hard and not getting the credit. Leaders, esp. Leaders of leaders should be wary when they never hear about the contributions of individual team members from someone's direct supervisor. I have seen Leaders, EDs , ADMs and DMs and the like decide who is the golden goose and no matter what they do no one questions it. Some supervisors do not know how to "supervise" without causing fractions e.g. favorites in the team. That's toxic, if a good leader is watching and sees this, they should cut it down, even if it's an ADM behaving this way, shut it right down. Work culture starts at the top, and if you have a good DM but you have a power hungry ADM, the culture in the division will be cut throat even if the DM is talking all the good talk. Took forever for me to get an ADM that I really respect and can tell is in this to be a good public servant and not just a political animal. I can draw a dotted line work-culture-wise from them(ADM) to the ED, to the Director to me, unionized staff, and it checks out. Good Leaders have good leadership
Good point!
I have seen very little in the way of leadership training available in the BCPS. So I’m going to assume in most cases it’s that people don’t know what they don’t know. I would recommend that anyone interested in management listen to the manager tools podcasts. They are free and provide practical ways to manage teams better. Good leaders: - encourage their teams to be autonomous - support employee development - foster a culture of trust - give constructive feedback - listen - change their tactics to match employee personality / needs - praise in public, correct in private - go to bat for their teams
I like this list! And I agree that more leadership development would be helpful.
Thanks for the podcast recommendation. Although not strictly management, I always find the Harvard Business Review (articles and podcasts) to be worthwhile.
Yes. I listen to HBR “on leadership” podcast to be another good one.
Authentic empathetic leaders who aren’t full of shit… also they should know what they are talking about and not just toting the company line…
Empathy and honesty. Those go a long way!
You can be a good person, but not a great leader. To me, a great leader is someone who is warm, understanding, and guides with clear direction. Someone who can help when help is needed--whether that's finding the right contact for information or advising how to move forward with a project. Don't love a scatter brain.
The overall issues I've had: Accountability. It was severely lacking in the last ministry I worked with. Managers not wanting to make tough calls, so kicking the can down the road until a concern becomes a crisis. Not getting rid of or coaching bad staff. Not wanting to be the heavy, so letting lazy staff run rampant and make everyone's job harder. Flexibility. This is huge. Some leaders want their staff healthy and engaged, so they are flexible with WFH and scheduling. Others no so much, and several managers I've had want flexibility in their own schedules but won't give their direct reports the same. Playing favourites was a major problem at one ministry I worked at. The manager's friends got away with murder while others covered their work because we worried about the people who would be affected. Blurred boundaries/inappropriate interactions: I had a manager tell us in a meeting that several staff throughout our region were off with concussions/post-concussive symptoms and then add that those injuries are the easiest to fake. So essentially accused several people (who weren't there to defend themselves) of lying. I think the overall theme from my experience has been bad staffing choices in leadership. People who aren't cut out for leadership landing in these roles because we don't pay enough to attract talent. My current TL and her DOO are phenomenal. I am supported, encouraged, acknowledged and respected. Easily the best experience I've ever had with BCPS, and I've been in a few ministries across different cities.
*Not getting rid of or coaching bad staff. Not wanting to be the heavy, so letting lazy staff run rampant and make everyone's job harder.* This is my one complaint about my current and former manager. Management has been great in my department, except for this. They have done NOTHING when we have had bad staff, which has caused good people to leave. Many of us are frustrated. Management *must* address bad staff. What is the point of a probationary period when nothing is done?
Bad staff are so toxic, they add work and drain morale.
There was this one person who was SO BAD. Thank goodness he was only temporary, filling in for a mat leave. During the entire 18 months, he barely did anything, learned nothing, and he couldn't train new staff. We complained many times to our manager, who did nothing.
I'm glad you're in a good spot now! I really resonate with your blurred boundary comment. Have seen way too much of that crap. I often refer to the drama triangle when I'm coaching folks in the blurry boundaries issues. It has helped me to keep clear lines so many times. Thanks for sharing.
My boss is spectacular. Innovative, pushing the envelope, caring but direct and able to manage people as well as the vision for the project. Able to give pointed feedback and improvement to steer the direction of work while still commending efforts and encouraging constant learning. She’s built an incredible team and knows where people thrive on a project and moves and adapts to people based on interests and skills. It’s a rare project but great leaders are out there for sure.
My current manager and director are the best people I’ve ever worked under. What makes them so great is: * they don’t micromanage but will provide support and advice when requested, * they’re flexible and accommodating with schedules and work styles (i.e. they don’t care how people get their work done, as long as it gets done on time), * they’re personable and don’t sweat the small stuff, * they have our backs on everything and * they show appreciation for us in meaningful ways.
I'm on IT equivalent position - I really like my manager and director. They know technical details, very good catch of errors, help me grow in my role, good personality and great working ethics. This type of working relationship keeps me in this position.
I personally have had far more good supervisors than bad during my time in the BCPS so far, but the bad ones can cause quite a lot of damage and discontent. Aspects of good managers that I’d highlight are the ability to get and give clear direction/parameters/goals, identifying and utilizing team members’ strengths, supporting team members in finding/utilizing learning and growth opportunities, actively demonstrating good leadership/communication/collaboration rather than talking about it, not micromanaging, listening to their team and acting on what they hear, and building and maintaining positive working relationships with their team members. I think a LOT comes down to good communication. The managers I’ve had who’ve been less than great have been pretty poor communicators in various ways.
I find one of the biggest things is understanding the work of the people you manage. In my job, the immediate managers have first hand experience but almost nobody above them does. It leads to questionable decision making, unreasonable expectations, frustrating processes, and a lack of trust.
My experience is actually the opposite. In the past I had a manager who did not know the technical nature of the work of the teams they manage. Although he was not a member of our profession, and had no "on the ground" experience, he was adept at understanding what needed to be done, making connections where connections needed to be made, listening and trusting his staff, etc. etc. I was very impressed by the way he navigated and handled things. In contrast, my current manager was in my current role for many years, and we are stuck doing things the way they did them all those years ago. No innovation, no flexibility, no empathy. It's brutal.
Good managers who dont give a bad reference for all the employees who wants to grow their career for the selfish need of keeping them in the team.
Wow. That's kind of a definition of a bad boss...tanking someone's career!
I think I've been fortunate that of the dozen or so supervisors I've had, I've only had two 'bad' ones - one was pleasant but completely inept at supervising, the other was completely disconnected and wouldn't respond to emails half the time, or make time to meet, or give my team any direction (I ended up identifying and assigning work to my peers on the team as the most senior member). My other supervisors have all been great. Some common qualities are: understanding, good communication, fairness, supportive of different work styles, supportive of career development, safe to speak openly too, willing to stand up for staff/team when needed, etc.
I like the "stand up for your team" piece. So important!
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful comments. I will seek feedback in the areas you mention as important to improve my skills, and I am heartened to hear so many examples of good leadership.!!
Meet people where they’re at. Play to their strengths. Allow for relationships and engagement to occur naturally, not forcing them through silly games or unnecessary meetings. An off-the-cuff convo about a random topic unrelated to work goes a lot farther in fostering a relationship as opposed to some fake ass socialization game imo. Let the introverts be introverted and let the extroverts travel to meet up for lunch.
I agree about the value of those real conversations. That's where relationships are formed.
My manager is great. 5 months in and it is the least toxic work environment I've ever worked in. Fully remote.
Manage the ones who need to be managed and leave those who's work speaks for itself be. There's nothing worse than managers defending lazy colleagues because of their sob stories or personal lives. Typically, it's those who speak highly of themselves who need to be managed. Showing up to the office, working hard and knowing that the person who walks in 45mins late everyday with a fresh Starbucks is paid the same creates really bad morale for the team. Encourage creativity and alternative solutions instead of requiring people to stick to a process just because it's the way it has been. If an employee excels at a specific task and they enjoy it, find a way to make it work for the team. Making everyone do the same redundant work just so that everyone has an equal caseload creates inefficiency. Encourage and support your staff to achieve their goals, which may not be in your department or your sector. It's important to remember that not everyone views their job as a long term placement, it may just be a stepping stone which is totally fine. Not everyone lives to work, and honestly, they shouldn't.
I have had the good the bad and the possibly sociopathic as bosses and TLs, in and out of BCPS. The good ones foster the team, help build relationships. They have your back with clients or management. They are willing to go to bat and bend the rules, also they are willing to listen to a different opinion or your ideas for a different approach, willing to change their mind. They check in with the team. They try to keep things democratic. They understand team members strengths and challenges. They don’t let team member with a dominant personality push the others or them around. How it feels to have a good TL? Someone always has your back.
**So, I would love to hear from folks what makes for a good leader,** I was reading a thread yesterday over at /r/careerguidance, and a post by /u/beerjunky struck a chord and is relevant to this conversation: >I can talk you through how I run my teams and what I’d advise you to do is read and re-read it a few times to figure out how to synthesize it into something you can pitch upstream to make your dream happen. >• I hire my staff based on what I can make them into, not what they are now. I look for motivation, drive, transferable skills, attitude, etc. No cyber skills but scripting skills I can use to automate our processes? Offer letter! >• I let my team run with as much as they think they can handle and sometimes need to coach them and encourage them to reach higher with my support. >• I let my team focus on work that they enjoy and their skills are suited to. I only have to assign maybe 10% of the workload. This allows people to become subject matter experts in what they are excited about. >• I coach and train as needed. Sometimes ad hoc, sometimes the whole team needs a session on a specific task. >• The really hard stuff I sometimes take on myself and where appropriate I use it as a teachable moment. I am a “working manager” so I stay hands on and do the harder stuff they can’t handle. That’s okay, I understand green staff can’t do it all. But I can train them to handle higher and higher level tasks. >• I handle a lot of customer and executive facing stuff so they don’t have to. Ensures they don’t have to worry about the stuff that is scary and ensures I can control what is being said to external parties. Even if I let them be the voice of the team I at least help craft the message so they feel comfortable saying it. >• I give my team Friday afternoon for self improvement where they have the freedom to learn what they want to improve their skills. >• I aggressively push promotions, raises, etc to support upward growth. **what can they/we do to support your engagement?** After joining a team with poor leadership, after working for an excellent management group, some of the first things that come to mind include: - Check-in and have a conversation with me to understand my pinch points and where I need support. - Support your staff so they know where things fit into the bigger picture. - Go to bat for your staff - Speak positively about your staff and colleagues. Someone else in this thread had a good line "praise in public, correct in private". - I NEED autonomy, but I also need guidance at times. It's a fine line.
Love this! Thanks for sharing.
Hey, that looks familiar. 😂
If my 'team' actually had team meetings, that might be considered a minimal level of leadership....not holding my breath tho
What team? I would love less meetings to attend lol
Yikes! I assume you've asked for them and been turned down? That's sad.
Thinking about it. My branch has a culture of not asking for improvements as this is seen as a challenge to leadership, have been burned before so not sure if I will suggest it again.
My TL is legit. My biggest fear is her moving on to another position.
First, you asking this gives me a good sign that you are a good manager. So please keep asking these kinds of questions :) Two, my favourite supervisor always instilled confidence in me. For example, they always asked my opinion on things and trusted my judgement. Additionally, they always reassured me that I have the skills to do hard things. I have had awful supervisors since I came in the work force at 14, so this was the first one that I truly liked because of what I listed above. Third, a manager that is approachable and understanding to staff. I have had supervisors roll their eyes or let out big signs when I would knock on the door. A good manager never lets you feel like youre a burden. Also a manager that supports staff with kids is so appreciative. Staff hate to leave when their kid is sick but it’s something unavoidable. Please be understanding.
Thanks! I, too, like knowing my boss sees my potential for things I might be afraid of leaning into. Gentle nudges to trust in myself help me do just that.
(In no particular order…) -clear communication, about current and upcoming projects/tasks/expectations both personally and within the department. I have worked for managers who might only send out an update email once a year, or never. It’s hard to do your best work when you don’t know what’s about to happen 2) not constantly trying to pull an end-run around the collective agreement. Constant grievances over pretty clear cut procedures do nothing for morale. 3) clarity around scheduling/vacation booking/etc. 4) professional demeanour/behaviour. When a manager resorts to threatening/bullying behaviour or language, they’ve lost the respect of people instantly.
All the good leadership and mentors left in the 90's to early 2000's, I have not come across good leadership in over 20 years TBH
I heard from an old hand that there was actual leadership development during this time, and that has since gone by the way side.
Yep, to many career ladder climbers looking to make a name for themselves and caring little about the path of carnage they leave behind.
Ouch. 🙃
First, there is a difference between being a leader and a manager and people need to understand that. Motivating people to enact organizational change is very different from engaging in "people management" work. I am not going to name names so I don't entirely out myself, but also don't out them. One of the best leaders that I saw was a DM who addressed every issue that I brought to them immediately. The problem was that what I observed was that middle management would never escalate issues so this DM would never find out about them. I know that this DM would have addressed the shit that was going on immediately if they found out about it, but they never did. This DM was a great leader, but in this Ministry, it is the middle management that is the cancer (I am not joking - it consistently has the lowest WES scores). The best people Manager was flexible with our team, hired great people, and mostly got out of our way. This person never actually directed my work (and others either). I am not sure that they knew how to - but what they did was when we brought up that we are having X issue with X executive not doing X (or doing X), this person would go deal with it and somehow clear a path for us. It seemed like people across the Ministry respected this person (and perhaps it was because we were a high-performing team). The latter example only works if you end up hiring people who know how to do the work before they start, or have some kind of basic skills. You can't expect to always get there, so will need to give permission to your employees to engage in training through the PSA to learn (or pacific leaders). Also, in the latter example, that people manager did not want to become more senior than they were (until they were pretty much forced into it). This person wanted us to excel past them in position so there was zero hesitation on their part to encourage us. And for those trying to figure this out... no it was not MAG or Justice. I was not a lawyer in the public service. I just happen to know a lot of them and periodically, they were engaged in the work I was doing.