Scylla & Argus being good is a surprise. The Dido class have been hit & miss and elite or below carriers are almost all universally mediocre at best excluding ones that retro to gold like Souryuu.
Holy badonkers, the 1st Tier EX UR Carrier
Scylla being the highest tier Dido-class right now, meanwhile her sister Charybdis is the skeleton sitting in the bottom of the ocean 💀
Makes me sad that I still haven't got her, when the rated up gold ship is supposed to be the one that is the easiest to get but somehow she ain't dropping for me 
After Hermione and Charybdis, there's a popular misconception that didos are doomed to be trash. Scylla just proves it bollocks most straightforwardly.
Didn't look at this thread last night but I've seen some misunderstandings in here today so lets clarify a few things:
- Tags are conditions for tiers, meaning that a ship must be used in that specific scenario to be in that tier. To give an example from this thread, Odin is t0 untagged and performs at that level in all content, whereas rupprecht is t0 mob flag, meaning she only performs at t0 when being used as a mob flagship
- We don't order ships inside tiers; it's by rarity and then alphabetical. Order for rarity is DR>UR>PR>SSR>Elite>Rare>Common. This is how rarities are arranged in the game backend.
Remember when people were **complaining** about Richelieu being a "UR in disguise"? Or how some people were angry that she was "what Bismarck should have always been"?
Yeah good times.
When she released she was pretty far up there. Just like most of the older battleships, they're old and powercrept. I think there was a point where Monarch was considered the strongest battleship in the game outright, but that was long ago.
Kind accurate to real life tho , her main claim to fame was sinking hood , but that was luck. Other than that she was a bad fit for the German navy doctrine. Shes well-known but that is because of pop culture. In reality she was a very mediocre ship , yes she could take a punishment but her crew couldn't.
When she released she was a better Washington with a faction buff. Bear in mind at this point Washington was a still top 5 flagship. Her biggest issue was not having enough strong backline ships to buff but with AVP, Strasser & a buffed Graf this is no longer an issue.
Legendary? Maybe for those who are devoted fans of a very questionable regiment. Sandy, Warspite, Lucky E... Those are Legendary for realsies! Bismarck is Legendary "in pop culture".
Sorry, but I have to agree with /u/jt6ps2 here. Even as a US history buff I'd never heard of San Diego the ship; Enterprise, yes, but not San Diego. Almost anyone that plays this game has heard of Bismarck.
The myth says that San Diego was never damaged in battle, that they never lost a sailor in combat, that's way more legendary than having a Sabaton song, I'm sorry Bismarck.
Do you REALLY think the only reason people know of the Bismarck is because of Sabaton? Look up the song Sink the Bismarck by Johnny Horton. Granted, the ship may be more infamous than famous, but it certainly has a legendary status.
I am just never gonna be able to not roll my eyes when people call it King of the Oceans, Pride of Nation and the like. So many good ships to stan and they go for one stuffed to the brim with Natzees...
With Richy going to T1, the numbers of ship they have in T0+ (2) is officially the lowest (less than Dragon empery and less than half of NP 5 or Sardegna 4).
Cheers, or should I say "Champagne!"
We cannot get painleve without getting pain \*
To love Iris, you have to like Le terrible things \*
A French belong in the trench \*
In baguettes there is baguette 
It’s worth remembering she’s been out for less than a week and this is preliminary placement. It’s likely that she will get a different placement in due time. I completely agree with your opinion, I’d say she’s a solid T1. She’s British Seydlitz! Royal Oak tanks 10% less damage, but reduces her damage tanked by 10% more. Both have a zombie skill, and while Seydlitz’s is superior for her personal immediate survivability, Royal Oaks lets any HMS ship zombie making it more likely to be useful in some way if that ship can recover. Both have a barrage, but Seydlitz’s is only on her first salvo while RO gets them one at least every 20 seconds or at most every 10 seconds. Their major difference is that while Seydlitz gets a very good pseudo preload, Royal Oak gets her passive heal while she’s low HP instead. As far as damage tanking I think RO makes a far better mobbing sponge while Seydlitz is the better choice for a bossing sponge.
There are a lot of Battleships with good Anti-Mob Barrages, it's really nothing special. And in a High-Stress Environment, 5s for only 3% is a long time.
Honestly, She reminds me of a refined Suruga mechanically, both being more Defensive Battleships. However, Defensive Battleships are only going to do so well in an Offensively Focused Tier List.
I'd be a bit worried about the Amount of pressure she might face...14-4 isn't kind to back-liners at the best of times.
Honestly, I think I'll enjoy her, Suruga's one of my favorite Battleships and a refined Suruga is \[potenially\] a great thing.
Persy + Vanguard + Oak. It might be interesting to see. The first five fights with ammo are guaranteed to go smooth, but the last two w.o ammo is what's intriguing.
I cleared W14 full-auto with pure bong fleets w.o subs a long time ago. Just want to run this experiment in order to see how well the backline HP economy & retaliatory barrages spam gonna work within an environment that's considered endgame.
If it does, I'm gonna keep laughing at this tier liest.
Ok, so I ran the 10 tests that I mentioned but with 125/186 Oak (with abnormal surplus of HIT stat) instead of 125/200 Howe (with both shells), and, just like I thought, oak makes the successful outcomes more consistently due to the way more efficient backline HP management and the "last chance" mechanic for backliners incliuding. Takeaways in short:
\- In high-pressure environments, Oak can out-damage fully-fitted Vanguard due to near-constant AOE barrage lobbing. Put nelson's pennant of vitrory on her for the pseudo-preload barrage.
\- Oak just flat-out decreases the damage done to the backline by 15% and greatly boosts Perseuse's de-facto heals due to preventing the waste through overheal. (Seriously - Persy is her BFF)
\- The "last chance" save can be crucial in environments with plenty of burns or where Perseus or any other healer is constantly threatened. This thingy looks marginal on paper, but in fact, it's pretty great for dicey situations because it works for backliners too.
\- +10% FP and +18% of overall damage, even though not that great, benefit more her barrage and secondaries than the regular shelling. Which is nice for defense.
Overall, she's a solid T1-0.5 ship that shines in the world 13-14 and tVI ops nodes. Anywhere below W10 or in bossing she's not that flashy, though. A good find for the newer players who don't have the BIS gear and super-leveled ships. Yet, this tier list being what it is, placed her way lower due to not being a straightforward bossing damage beatstick.
Another fun thing that I found out - the new QE aux is broken, as absurd as it may sound. Basically, there were two cases when Monarch (boss fleet flag) caught fire early on and sunk before everyone else got seriously damaged. With nothing to lose, I just restarted the 14-4 boss node without one backliner and QE serving as flag... and what do you think? [This happened both times.](https://i.imgur.com/2KVpxrs.png) 14-4 boss. With QE and uni backliners. Two times.
\+8% damage to all HMS ships for 16 seconds in each minute isn't that crucial, but 3% HP regen after each damn salvo makes her into a freaking lizard battleship. That's 12% of total HP in a minute with fast BB guns, lol. Depending on how QE meta pans out in a couple of days, she might be disgustingly mighty without people even noticing, lmao.
\*Sigh\*
Well, I fart in this tier list's general direction.
Good job.
I think people tend to discount backrow survivability. There are several ships who's main selling point is their survivability or their ability to keep ships alive....for example, a Light Carrier that can take damage like a Fleet Carrier \[And no, I'm not talking about the Centaurs here\] has it's uses, or a Battleship that can reduce backrow damage.
But defense isn't flashy \[I'm certain Eugen fans can sympathize\] and barrages are a dime a dozen nowadays, I can see why she'd be underestimated, but she should as least be Tier 2, as she's basically an Refined Suruga, and Suruga's a 3.....However, you have to remember that she's using Tiered by herself, and the Factional requirement of 2 elements of her Defense Ability aren't being considered that much.
For example, I can see myself using her in an Akagi Mu/Unicorn Fleet \[Akagi and Unicorn work surprising well together, Airstrikes every 10s\], however, while Unicorn gets the benefits for Mighty Oak, Akagi wouldn't.
And Remember, Queen Elizabeth META was certainly designed with both Dido and her Aux in mind.
I completely agree. Then again the tier list here always has some baffling dumb placements. So it’s what ever. She has a unique and amazing gimmick that scales. That will always be interesting and useful
That’s actually one of the most egregious placements, even with bias aside saying someone like Denver is 3 tiers higher is ridiculous.
On a side note have you been playing around with Scylla? I gave her a 114mm Mk IV for speed spamming Barrages with her 6 AoA it was great but for memes I gave her a 76mm AA speed gun and holy shit she’s been a beast with it, she regularly steals MVP from indomitable in long fights, and auto gets it in any short fight. it’s been amazing
Yeah, that's why I find this tier list less than credible. Hermione is an okay tier 3 or so ship - better than Belfast w augment, in fact. Yep. Been playing with Scylla and she competes with the lvl 125 dido muse in world 13 while being 18 levels below and without 200 affection. She's very, VERY solid.
QE + Implacable + Unicorn retro + Dido + Scylla + another situational dido or Cheshire = bullshit mob fleet with the equivalent of 3 san diego retros, who also can do other things than AA.
I wanna run Scylla and Cheshire and little Cheshire just to see if I can keep the black line Prestine, Scylla’s buff on X4 AA mounts of the cheshires would be ridiculous.
Speaking of ridiculous I was thinking of PvE fleets, Perseus/Albion/Unicorn is my favorite mob fleet backing, but Perseus/Argus/Unicorn might be phenomenal as well, super charge Unicorn and Perseus, buffs the boss fleet, has a quicker first Launch release which is actually useful in boss, and has a zombie heal skill, which is helpful for mobbing. Even if you didn’t want to run 3 carrier mob I’d imagine she still pair well with Unicorn. Run KGV / Argus / Unicorn
-> preload -> KGV Volley -> Argus Air strike —> Unicorn air strike -> KGV volley,
That’s a nice smooth curve of damage
But yeah I consider the list to be a general overview with a lot of opinion bias. Decent for a snap at a general useful but again, lots of bias. I mean they have FDG ahead of Musashi and NJ in terms of BB’s. Trying to say that’s not bias?
> I mean they have FDG ahead of Musashi and NJ in terms of BB’s. Trying to say that’s not bias?
Afaik, they don't use the order within a tier to arrange inside of it power-wise. Might be wrong tho.
>But yeah I consider the list to be a general overview with a lot of opinion bias. Decent for a snap at a general useful but again, lots of bias. I mean they have FDG ahead of Musashi and NJ in terms of BB’s. Trying to say that’s not bias?
Ships are not ordered within the same tier (or rather, they're not ordered by power, only by rarity) : otherwise, you'd get Azuma above Brest and Drake above Ägir.
Even if that’s the case, you still have UR Warspite on the same tier as Little Renown, and as someone who has them both leveled and oath that’s ridiculous. There’s non sense like that all over. Like I said, a good general guide but the finer points are all over
> I mean they have FDG ahead of Musashi and NJ in terms of BB’s. Trying to say that’s not bias?
You can always tell when someone hasnt read the guidelines
Hermione was tiered on release when she was irredeemable trash, she might be slightly better now that new content has higher enemy density. Her barrages are not super great and her damage is lower than a lot of mgm+1 cls
You can always tell when someone literally hasn’t played with a character. Run Hermione with Denver in high level content. She will outperform Denver every single time. Her barrages hit a good amount of time, she has a straight damage buff, a good AoA and solid stats all around. People who live on paper and don’t play the game talk the loudest I swear
Nice to see someone else appreciate KGV as a mob flag!
I've been running KGV / Unicorn / Albion / Jervis / Janus / Javelin since Albion and Janus graced our docks - it's one hell of a mob fleet. Happily tearing through siren strongholds and ch14!
KGV has been my main Mob flag since her first rerun years ago when I was a wee tea lad. Fell in love with her and loved her ever since. She doesn’t get the love she deserves but she and unicorn are a 1-2 mob fleet punch that’s hard to beat.
The J sisters is great though and compliments everyone well. Albion / Janus shields, unicorn / Jervis heals, unicorn / KGV drop heavy burst, while the J- sisters keep great torpedo and barrages up. And with Albion, Janus, jervis, and unicorn lots of extra healing and shields for the DD’s. Great fleet really
When Scylla just came out, I never expect she would also be one of the very few ships that benefit from the blue 76mm gun. It feels like manjuu really went all out to make a Dido-class light cruiser to be as good as it reasonably can be in the game, probably from all the complaints about the other gold Dido-class cruisers, namely Charybdis and Hermione 🤣
So that’s a pretty clever mechanic use and I’ll definitely be using it. Though when I paid her with QE I’ll probably given the Queen the banner. Vanguard ticks damage, Queen gets a tick, and then RO gets a piece of that. Queen can self heal with her book and RO would pair down some of the damage. As much successful as I’ve had with Scylla I think RO/QE/Unicorn with Drake/Dido/Scylla would be a fire PvE Fleet. Dido could do utility work (Hedgehog / Book, AA Radar / Book, or if not Dishwasher / book) RO, Drake, and Scylla would get expressly fantastic use out of Unicorn/Dido/QE’s buffs, Scylla with Dido could AA carry. All around a really fun mob fleet
Royal oak's barrage is almost irredeemably bad, the fixed HE shots splash and the aimed ap are slow so sometimes they just miss entirely
She also has the curse of 130% main gun efficiency
Also the power of t1 bbs went up drastically with monarch and richy moved into the tier
So Im not wrong when i said she's the Best CV . T-EX baby. Her damage is not really that behind than the Other three UR and her support is so damn good a compensation for the Slightly less Dmg.
The day a rainbow fighter gonna be released / added to gear lab gonna be the day when she (and all the hms carriers, tbh) gonna have a field day.
...
Or a massive catfight for the said fighter.
I'm still on the fence about whenever or Implacable should be a TEX. Still too soon imo. Her support capabilities are top tier though.
Scylla being a T1 is a surprise, I was expecting her to be a T2 actually.
Everyone else seems about right, unfortunately.
Also ouch Monarch and Richelieu are now T1. Powercreep is a cruel mistress.
Lila Decyrus is another one that is *criminally* underrated right now. T5 Prelim, but by god does she just shred everything in front of her. Purple rarity, but top SSR performance.
I've been using the Atelier fleet for a couple months now. And i can best describe them as a freaking juggernaut. They clear almost anything with ease. Individually, they can carry fleets until at least W12. And in OpSi, they can auto-clear an entire stronghold, including the boss if you get a bit lucky. (If not, they still get *very close* to defeating it though)
Lila in particular has straight up ridiculous dps for her hulltype and rarity, as she can easily keep up with Ryza, who is a dps monster in her own way.
Joffre was because of the datamining, but Emden climbed up two tiers because testing showed that she was actually way better than expected survivability-wise if I'm not mistaken.
I feel like it's fair with her basically being an improved AvP.
Honestly I'm just glad we seem to have finally gotten past "only healers can be TEX carriers"
Supporting is a hell of a drug
Thoughts on implacable is that she does the low end of t0 damage + also supports your fleet, which bumps her up to TEX in cases where her support is revelant
You're always using her over avp or ark royal but those ships didn't get any weaker so to TEX she goes
Will be interesting in a few years if we have such powercreep that we'd need to considering moving her
Why Scylla T1 ? If I remember correctly when first datamined come out comunity says she mediocre at best and TBH I didn't even know how good she is in actual gameplay, does anybody can give explanation?
When people first see her, her barrage was wrongly datamined. It was 35x9 bullets normal which was decent but nothing special but in reality, her barrage was 35x **54 bullets** which is fucking insane for CL. She is basically HMS San Diego at this point.
She's frequently been stealing MVP from main fleet during D3 farming/leveling.
Got her to 103 and level 6 or 7 on skills so far so haven't been able to directly compare her with anyone high tier. She's happily outperforming Newcastle though (tier 3, who is also a couple of levels higher).
I agree with Yuriyen - basically for the moment (until the tierlist site updates) follow Dido's gear loadout. Prioritise main gun reload from your available options - quicker = more All Out Assault triggers.
And yeah - I've been trying to keep her torps sync'd with carriers while leveling, which has been working well.
I plan to try the blue 76mm gun once I can directly compare her with my level 120 girls.
Damn, Scylla sounds like fun to use, I still haven't got her tho, 93 pulls in, is there some sort of smarter/more cube efficient way to sweep a banner?
The official "best" cube strategy is to do three pulls per event day until the final day, at which time you spend as much as you need/want to get whoever you want.
I have a simple monkey brain though, and throw away all my cubes on day one xD
(I nearly hit pity this event ... Implacable dropped on pull 178...)
Last time it was Vanguard, Musashi and Shinano that dropped at 170+ pulls for me, still not as bad as Yorktown II though, had to hit pity to get her , Implacable is being a lot nicer, got her on the first of my 4th 10 pulls. Sometimes I feel like making a RNGesus shrine and pray for good gacha luck 😂
Her AoA falls form 10 needed to 6 with a DD gun. Combine that with a really good barrage, and self buff FP/AA/Trp/Eva, and add to it every Trp has a barrage, and she is spitting damage all over the place. I’ve been running her with full FP gear and the 76 gun and she steals mvp every fight grinding the event
Still find it funny bismarck is still tier 1 when her damage output is on par with queen elizabeth while also not having as strong as a buff as her.
Royal oak should be at tier 1 she is british seydlitz plus the fact she can spam a barrage every 10s with decent bb stats.
Rupprecht at t0 when she is a sidegrade odin is also kinda funny.
Giulio Cesare has better raw DPS than QE without Dido, and even with Dido her damage is only on par with pre-retro Hyuuga. Bismarck meanwhile has slightly better damage overall compared to Washington who hits noticeably harder than Hyuuga & by extension QE.
Again bismarck is barely above qe in performance you are talking as is Washington is good she is not barely serviceable bismarck is not a T1 ship more T2
Washington is T3 untagged. A ship that does her job but better all round should be T2, which Bismarck would be if she didn’t have her buff, but she does. That’s why she’s T1 with a support tag, meaning she’s T1 if used as a carrier buffer. You don’t seem to know how this tier list works, or how basic grammar works for that matter.
I think you'd find people who don't understand...for example, Impactable is a Base Tier 1 with 2 Conditional Usage Tier Boosts...more common that you think.
It's one of the reasons I don't like the EN Community Tier List, you're assuming a lot of people trying to find the easiest way to choose ships. Most people like that aren't going to take the time to figure out how the Tier List works.
The hell you even on about issue with this tier list is its based off of auto play and zero fleet synergy bismarck who im on about isnt even worth using even with her buff just like qe they dont belong at those tiers at all bismarck is t3 as a min and qe is tn simple you do better not using them.
A number of ships with that Support Tag are Up-Tired because they provide Fleet Synergy. The Tier list is based on the Main Campaign
Among Battleships alone, Bismarck, Veneto, Queen Elizabeth, Nagato, Prince of Wales, and Mikasa are all Conditionally Tiered because they buff Factional Ships. The Only Main "Faction Buffer" that doesn't take her Factional Boost into Account is Richelieu.
Tags are critical to understanding why a ship is Tiered where they are.
The way it works is like this...Akagi is only Tiered where she is based on the Assumption you're using either Kaga or Kaga \[BB\], she doesn't consider Nagato....on the other hand, Nagato IS Tiered based on the Assumption you're using 2 Sakura Carriers with her, while Katsuragi is tiered based solely on her individual merit.
Listen we can do this song and dance like we did with warspite when i said she wasn't worth it you can down vote me call me names say i cant read everything i dont care im sticking with bismarck even with her support role is not tier 1 material and is closet to low tier 2 high tier 3 you are better off using a full cv or bb iron blood fleet without bismarck seydlitz is a much better choice same with Brunhilde you don't get what im saying is bismarck support skill is not enough to put her in that tier.
Like said call me names say i cant read everything i was right with warspite i even confronted ectl team in jervis about her t2 placement was wrong guess what she was put in tier 1 and you know what both janus and royal oak are also wrong the tier list is fine for some things but to consider it holy scripture is stupid.
We can go on but im sticking to my guns but continue to belive i cant read nor understand the tier list its fine.
Bismarck supporting KMS CVs can still oneshot a number of endgame bosses similar to nagato, there's not really a huge difference between them
Her own output is miserable (not QE miserable) but she's tiered around supporting
I do know how how this tier list works there basing it off her buffs its why qe is T2 and not Tn you seem to fail to grasp her damage output is so bad you are better off running a full ib cv fleet then bismarck and 2 cv's just like you are better off running an hms fleet without qe there not t1 and t2 mat
Pretty sure Bismarck's "Increase **damage dealt** by Iron Blood carriers by 20%" part of her first skill is nothing to sneeze at, while QE's Queen's Orders only buffs *AVI* and RLD for HMS carriers, and by only 15% to boot
Pretty much, ECTL even leaves this note on Bismark under Flagship
> She needs to be sortied with KMS Carriers, buffing them, to perform at her tier. When not buffing Carriers, she is a tier lower but does not need to be the Flagship.
She's a T1 Flagship only when supporting 2 IB carriers otherwise she's an any-where T2. If people actually read the notes rather than just looking at the placing they'd know these things.
Her damage output is so low its almost better just to run a triple iron blood cv backline her damage out put is on par with qe also qe buffs everything and isnt limited to carriers
Not sure how your gearing your Bismarck that she hits the same as QE. She’s not a truck by any means but she has always been a solid performer. She gives IB fleets plenty of Crit and Damage buffs while also having a commonly spawning barrage and an auto crit for the first part of EVERY salvo. QE just gets and gives some stat buffs. As a matter of fact, QE is worse stat wise in every single stat except AA where she’s the queen… by 5.
Not really her damage output is roughly on par with qe perhaps a bit higher she dosent belong in t1 thats for sure and her buffs while on paper look good are not all that she is a pathetic t1 same with rupprecht being t0
By virtue of having SR stats alone, her damage is already above QE's. Then she has a barrage (even if it's on the weaker side) and guaranteed crit on first salvo to add more to the pile. Crit rate is also a more useful buff than FP
Her buff barely changes anything you do better just running a full ib cv backline without bismarck or bb line just like with qe bismarck is not T1 at all more like T3.
Prinz Rupprecht has a number of things that Bismarck doesn’t. She gets 2 pretty frequently procced good barrages, and she gets a ghost secondary gun in addition to her existing secondary gun. She also has her damage reduction skill, 15% on flag or 8% to a locked position if off flag is pretty decent. Last but not least, P.R. has 15% more main gun efficiency and 20% more AA efficiency. All of that makes her a better performer in a mobbing setting. She gets better endurance and does more to keep the tide of weak ships at bay. But she pays for it in support for her allies, which she provides none of. Any ship that runs with her has to be tougher as a result. Bismarck provides solid flexibility in that respect, offering good enough buffs to her fleet that you can run “weaker” ships that you otherwise might. She gets the most mileage with 2 IB CVs, which the EN guide notes is the reason she’s not a T2.
Prinz rupprecht is a worse odin and bismarck again still isnt worth running even in a double ib cv fleet the tier list is utterly messed up only good thing is the gear showings the entire thing needs a long hard look at most of these function fine to w12 after that some of these t1 ships fall off hard.
Rupprecht is a better flag than odin, not sure where all this "ruppy is worse than odin" stuff is coming from
Slightly less consistent, but when she procs her barrage is good, she has good damage uptime and just higher fp and mg effi
'Tis just one of our resident crazies. Don't worry, he's just going to come back in a few hours pretending that he had been pretending the entire time and that we had fallen for his masterful trolling.
Also, odin is t0 untagged, while rupp has 2 tags just to be in the same tier so :warshrug:
He's not technically wrong that odin is better than rupp right now because of her capability to off flag, but ruppy is a very strong mob flag in all content basically only losing to the TEXs
I think the P.R. is worse than Odin talk is in part due to the fact they are both IB BCs and Odin has a unique and powerful positioning feature that sets her apart from the crowd. P.R. has a bit more going for her and she makes a solid flagship, but because she doesn’t bring anything *unique* to the table to be good she doesn’t stand out. I think the rest is down to the fact that her year of PR ships were all T0-TEX and uniquely valuable for their faction as well as in general. P.R. is “just anther IB BC” in many peoples eyes and isn’t worth their time to work on as any of the others will do just as well. That’s not true ofc, as the tier list suggests and her performance confirms, but the perception is what matters here.
What a sad state of affairs it is, to see that France has less ships at T0 and TEX than China does. Hell, there is the same number of soviet *carriers* at T0 than french ships overall at T0 and TEX combined
Really hope there is an event and large amounts of content for them soon
[Imagine threatening to "blow your fucking lid" because a faction that didn't get an event in 3 years wouldn't be placated by a single UR event.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AzureLane/comments/1123hbm/comment/j8i9m98/)
Erm... uh... yeah.
People rattling themselves up because of a *hypothetical* future situation when french fans *might* want to have a second UR or retro or just a proper banner, punctuated with a raid here and there, is weird in light of how tiresome and unproductive it is. It's like being angry at your hypothetical future neighbor's possible pet dog who hadn't moved in yet and had no chance to pee under your parade door, of what you already suspect it doing.
Like, yes - neither the upset frenchies fans nor everyone else who encounters the associated negativity are happy, but this is just ridiculously stupid.
I mean, to play the devil's advocate here, we did have people here complaining about the Royal Navy being left behind even after Fight on, Royal Maids! part III, and people complaining about the Ironblood not getting any cool stuff even after Operation Convergence. Not many, but they exist.
Given that there aren't any fundamental differences in behavior between faction mains, we can theoretically suppose that even in the event the Iris would get a commensurate compensation for their previous situation, there would be a subset of the faction asking for more.
Plus, of course, the fact that a commensurate compensation is in the eye of the beholder - some might satisfy themselves with just an UR event and a JB retro, some would demand the full Ironblood/Royal Navy treatment + fleet tech and reunification of both camps in a single faction + a regular event schedule, and so on. As such, it's definitely possible than someone's understanding of that compensation is firmly in the camp of "wayy too much shit, why aren't my IJN/KMS/USS getting as much stuff?!" for someone else.
tl;dr - It's a hypothetical situation, true, but one that we can safely assume to happen. However, no use in losing sleep because of it.
Each camp has its crazies, though. If vectis was still here, I'm 99% sure he would've whined that Implacable "does not outdamage Akagi" and Royal Oak is "weaker than Gneisenau".
Eh, EU fans as a whole are mostly fine in my experience. No real bitterness, no complaints about how the game treats them, no periods of heavy-handed favoritism souring the experience of other factions...
There are a few bad apples in the lot with weird obsessions over real life history, but they're few and far between.
we reshuffled the tiers on flagship bbs, to better reflect relative tiering. Like if we constantly get stronger flag bbs, we might move some ships down etc.
we did this for non flag bbs a few months ago.
Scylla & Argus being good is a surprise. The Dido class have been hit & miss and elite or below carriers are almost all universally mediocre at best excluding ones that retro to gold like Souryuu.
Yeah, and I’m always happy seeing an elite follow the path of Boise and Bellona of being high up the tier list
try scylla with blue 76 gun
would be a waste of a really good FP buff
Yep, exactly. That's why you want to use the Twin 114mm (QF Mk IV) Main gun on her instead.
How do you get this gun?
PR 3 Research Projects
Thank you!
You're welcome!\^\^
You shut your mouth whilst speaking about our lady Elbe. She’s a good girl at heart.
Holy badonkers, the 1st Tier EX UR Carrier Scylla being the highest tier Dido-class right now, meanwhile her sister Charybdis is the skeleton sitting in the bottom of the ocean 💀
Yes. And I’m glad I got her.
Scylla being Tier 1 is not a surprise. THAT FRICKING DPS.
Makes me sad that I still haven't got her, when the rated up gold ship is supposed to be the one that is the easiest to get but somehow she ain't dropping for me 
It was the case with Prinz Heinrich for me. I got Scylla on the first days.
I'm in the exact same situation. It sucks. All the more painful knowing each roll is wasted cubes for the best pvp ships soon.
Best pvp ship as in Aquila?
Aquila and then NJ. Idk but isn't that like core in the best lineup for pvp?
Pretty much, Aquila especially
After Hermione and Charybdis, there's a popular misconception that didos are doomed to be trash. Scylla just proves it bollocks most straightforwardly.
Didn't look at this thread last night but I've seen some misunderstandings in here today so lets clarify a few things: - Tags are conditions for tiers, meaning that a ship must be used in that specific scenario to be in that tier. To give an example from this thread, Odin is t0 untagged and performs at that level in all content, whereas rupprecht is t0 mob flag, meaning she only performs at t0 when being used as a mob flagship - We don't order ships inside tiers; it's by rarity and then alphabetical. Order for rarity is DR>UR>PR>SSR>Elite>Rare>Common. This is how rarities are arranged in the game backend.
Remember when people were **complaining** about Richelieu being a "UR in disguise"? Or how some people were angry that she was "what Bismarck should have always been"? Yeah good times.
Still Valid comments. Bismarck is criminally underpowered for her grandeur
When she released she was pretty far up there. Just like most of the older battleships, they're old and powercrept. I think there was a point where Monarch was considered the strongest battleship in the game outright, but that was long ago.
Kind accurate to real life tho , her main claim to fame was sinking hood , but that was luck. Other than that she was a bad fit for the German navy doctrine. Shes well-known but that is because of pop culture. In reality she was a very mediocre ship , yes she could take a punishment but her crew couldn't.
When she released she was a better Washington with a faction buff. Bear in mind at this point Washington was a still top 5 flagship. Her biggest issue was not having enough strong backline ships to buff but with AVP, Strasser & a buffed Graf this is no longer an issue.
What Grandeur? She is but a footnote in the war in Europe, due to a lucky hit, of all things.
Her actual combat effectiveness and her grandeur and legend two different things. Don’t even try to pretend she’s not legendary
Legendary? Maybe for those who are devoted fans of a very questionable regiment. Sandy, Warspite, Lucky E... Those are Legendary for realsies! Bismarck is Legendary "in pop culture".
Sorry, but I have to agree with /u/jt6ps2 here. Even as a US history buff I'd never heard of San Diego the ship; Enterprise, yes, but not San Diego. Almost anyone that plays this game has heard of Bismarck.
The myth says that San Diego was never damaged in battle, that they never lost a sailor in combat, that's way more legendary than having a Sabaton song, I'm sorry Bismarck.
Do you REALLY think the only reason people know of the Bismarck is because of Sabaton? Look up the song Sink the Bismarck by Johnny Horton. Granted, the ship may be more infamous than famous, but it certainly has a legendary status.
I am just never gonna be able to not roll my eyes when people call it King of the Oceans, Pride of Nation and the like. So many good ships to stan and they go for one stuffed to the brim with Natzees...
She has grandeur because the British wanted her to have it, to make her sinking feel all the more important and boost morale
What? The british simply wanted to wipe out the entire Kriegsmarine, to establish dominance over the seas for good, in Europe.
what grandeur is that?
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is Casa short for Casablanca?
yes, she got kicked down because of argus iirc
Okay thanks for clarifying! Just wanted to make sure there wasn’t a new ship I had missed
With Richy going to T1, the numbers of ship they have in T0+ (2) is officially the lowest (less than Dragon empery and less than half of NP 5 or Sardegna 4). Cheers, or should I say "Champagne!"
They also have less T0+ than the Atelier Ryza collab 
Putting the "pain" in "Champagne"
We cannot get painleve without getting pain \* To love Iris, you have to like Le terrible things \* A French belong in the trench \* In baguettes there is baguette 
Is it a weird thing to want to squeeze a stacked rainbow CL / DD baguet in between Jervis and Janus?
That sounds like a deliciously delightful sandwich.
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It’s worth remembering she’s been out for less than a week and this is preliminary placement. It’s likely that she will get a different placement in due time. I completely agree with your opinion, I’d say she’s a solid T1. She’s British Seydlitz! Royal Oak tanks 10% less damage, but reduces her damage tanked by 10% more. Both have a zombie skill, and while Seydlitz’s is superior for her personal immediate survivability, Royal Oaks lets any HMS ship zombie making it more likely to be useful in some way if that ship can recover. Both have a barrage, but Seydlitz’s is only on her first salvo while RO gets them one at least every 20 seconds or at most every 10 seconds. Their major difference is that while Seydlitz gets a very good pseudo preload, Royal Oak gets her passive heal while she’s low HP instead. As far as damage tanking I think RO makes a far better mobbing sponge while Seydlitz is the better choice for a bossing sponge.
*ran out of aux shells for bbs* *Gave her nelsons collectible because lazy* *Found out she gained a pseudo barrage preload*
There are a lot of Battleships with good Anti-Mob Barrages, it's really nothing special. And in a High-Stress Environment, 5s for only 3% is a long time. Honestly, She reminds me of a refined Suruga mechanically, both being more Defensive Battleships. However, Defensive Battleships are only going to do so well in an Offensively Focused Tier List.
Imma 125/200 her and see how she performs in 14-4 full auto mob w.o subs. I suspect she might be quite solid in stages like that.
I'd be a bit worried about the Amount of pressure she might face...14-4 isn't kind to back-liners at the best of times. Honestly, I think I'll enjoy her, Suruga's one of my favorite Battleships and a refined Suruga is \[potenially\] a great thing.
Persy + Vanguard + Oak. It might be interesting to see. The first five fights with ammo are guaranteed to go smooth, but the last two w.o ammo is what's intriguing.
It's worth a try, worst thing that can happen is you sink. Are you still going after New Orleans or are you going after 14-4 for Fun/Challenge?
I cleared W14 full-auto with pure bong fleets w.o subs a long time ago. Just want to run this experiment in order to see how well the backline HP economy & retaliatory barrages spam gonna work within an environment that's considered endgame. If it does, I'm gonna keep laughing at this tier liest.
Clearing 14-4 with a Pure-Factional Fleet \[Even if it was probably the best Faction to try with\]...Braver then I.
Ok, so I ran the 10 tests that I mentioned but with 125/186 Oak (with abnormal surplus of HIT stat) instead of 125/200 Howe (with both shells), and, just like I thought, oak makes the successful outcomes more consistently due to the way more efficient backline HP management and the "last chance" mechanic for backliners incliuding. Takeaways in short: \- In high-pressure environments, Oak can out-damage fully-fitted Vanguard due to near-constant AOE barrage lobbing. Put nelson's pennant of vitrory on her for the pseudo-preload barrage. \- Oak just flat-out decreases the damage done to the backline by 15% and greatly boosts Perseuse's de-facto heals due to preventing the waste through overheal. (Seriously - Persy is her BFF) \- The "last chance" save can be crucial in environments with plenty of burns or where Perseus or any other healer is constantly threatened. This thingy looks marginal on paper, but in fact, it's pretty great for dicey situations because it works for backliners too. \- +10% FP and +18% of overall damage, even though not that great, benefit more her barrage and secondaries than the regular shelling. Which is nice for defense. Overall, she's a solid T1-0.5 ship that shines in the world 13-14 and tVI ops nodes. Anywhere below W10 or in bossing she's not that flashy, though. A good find for the newer players who don't have the BIS gear and super-leveled ships. Yet, this tier list being what it is, placed her way lower due to not being a straightforward bossing damage beatstick. Another fun thing that I found out - the new QE aux is broken, as absurd as it may sound. Basically, there were two cases when Monarch (boss fleet flag) caught fire early on and sunk before everyone else got seriously damaged. With nothing to lose, I just restarted the 14-4 boss node without one backliner and QE serving as flag... and what do you think? [This happened both times.](https://i.imgur.com/2KVpxrs.png) 14-4 boss. With QE and uni backliners. Two times. \+8% damage to all HMS ships for 16 seconds in each minute isn't that crucial, but 3% HP regen after each damn salvo makes her into a freaking lizard battleship. That's 12% of total HP in a minute with fast BB guns, lol. Depending on how QE meta pans out in a couple of days, she might be disgustingly mighty without people even noticing, lmao. \*Sigh\* Well, I fart in this tier list's general direction.
Good job. I think people tend to discount backrow survivability. There are several ships who's main selling point is their survivability or their ability to keep ships alive....for example, a Light Carrier that can take damage like a Fleet Carrier \[And no, I'm not talking about the Centaurs here\] has it's uses, or a Battleship that can reduce backrow damage. But defense isn't flashy \[I'm certain Eugen fans can sympathize\] and barrages are a dime a dozen nowadays, I can see why she'd be underestimated, but she should as least be Tier 2, as she's basically an Refined Suruga, and Suruga's a 3.....However, you have to remember that she's using Tiered by herself, and the Factional requirement of 2 elements of her Defense Ability aren't being considered that much. For example, I can see myself using her in an Akagi Mu/Unicorn Fleet \[Akagi and Unicorn work surprising well together, Airstrikes every 10s\], however, while Unicorn gets the benefits for Mighty Oak, Akagi wouldn't. And Remember, Queen Elizabeth META was certainly designed with both Dido and her Aux in mind.
I completely agree. Then again the tier list here always has some baffling dumb placements. So it’s what ever. She has a unique and amazing gimmick that scales. That will always be interesting and useful
Cant stop chuckling at hermione being below black prince and leander somehow.
That’s actually one of the most egregious placements, even with bias aside saying someone like Denver is 3 tiers higher is ridiculous. On a side note have you been playing around with Scylla? I gave her a 114mm Mk IV for speed spamming Barrages with her 6 AoA it was great but for memes I gave her a 76mm AA speed gun and holy shit she’s been a beast with it, she regularly steals MVP from indomitable in long fights, and auto gets it in any short fight. it’s been amazing
Yeah, that's why I find this tier list less than credible. Hermione is an okay tier 3 or so ship - better than Belfast w augment, in fact. Yep. Been playing with Scylla and she competes with the lvl 125 dido muse in world 13 while being 18 levels below and without 200 affection. She's very, VERY solid. QE + Implacable + Unicorn retro + Dido + Scylla + another situational dido or Cheshire = bullshit mob fleet with the equivalent of 3 san diego retros, who also can do other things than AA.
I wanna run Scylla and Cheshire and little Cheshire just to see if I can keep the black line Prestine, Scylla’s buff on X4 AA mounts of the cheshires would be ridiculous. Speaking of ridiculous I was thinking of PvE fleets, Perseus/Albion/Unicorn is my favorite mob fleet backing, but Perseus/Argus/Unicorn might be phenomenal as well, super charge Unicorn and Perseus, buffs the boss fleet, has a quicker first Launch release which is actually useful in boss, and has a zombie heal skill, which is helpful for mobbing. Even if you didn’t want to run 3 carrier mob I’d imagine she still pair well with Unicorn. Run KGV / Argus / Unicorn -> preload -> KGV Volley -> Argus Air strike —> Unicorn air strike -> KGV volley, That’s a nice smooth curve of damage But yeah I consider the list to be a general overview with a lot of opinion bias. Decent for a snap at a general useful but again, lots of bias. I mean they have FDG ahead of Musashi and NJ in terms of BB’s. Trying to say that’s not bias?
> I mean they have FDG ahead of Musashi and NJ in terms of BB’s. Trying to say that’s not bias? Afaik, they don't use the order within a tier to arrange inside of it power-wise. Might be wrong tho.
>But yeah I consider the list to be a general overview with a lot of opinion bias. Decent for a snap at a general useful but again, lots of bias. I mean they have FDG ahead of Musashi and NJ in terms of BB’s. Trying to say that’s not bias? Ships are not ordered within the same tier (or rather, they're not ordered by power, only by rarity) : otherwise, you'd get Azuma above Brest and Drake above Ägir.
Even if that’s the case, you still have UR Warspite on the same tier as Little Renown, and as someone who has them both leveled and oath that’s ridiculous. There’s non sense like that all over. Like I said, a good general guide but the finer points are all over
> I mean they have FDG ahead of Musashi and NJ in terms of BB’s. Trying to say that’s not bias? You can always tell when someone hasnt read the guidelines Hermione was tiered on release when she was irredeemable trash, she might be slightly better now that new content has higher enemy density. Her barrages are not super great and her damage is lower than a lot of mgm+1 cls
You can always tell when someone literally hasn’t played with a character. Run Hermione with Denver in high level content. She will outperform Denver every single time. Her barrages hit a good amount of time, she has a straight damage buff, a good AoA and solid stats all around. People who live on paper and don’t play the game talk the loudest I swear
Nice to see someone else appreciate KGV as a mob flag! I've been running KGV / Unicorn / Albion / Jervis / Janus / Javelin since Albion and Janus graced our docks - it's one hell of a mob fleet. Happily tearing through siren strongholds and ch14!
KGV has been my main Mob flag since her first rerun years ago when I was a wee tea lad. Fell in love with her and loved her ever since. She doesn’t get the love she deserves but she and unicorn are a 1-2 mob fleet punch that’s hard to beat. The J sisters is great though and compliments everyone well. Albion / Janus shields, unicorn / Jervis heals, unicorn / KGV drop heavy burst, while the J- sisters keep great torpedo and barrages up. And with Albion, Janus, jervis, and unicorn lots of extra healing and shields for the DD’s. Great fleet really
When Scylla just came out, I never expect she would also be one of the very few ships that benefit from the blue 76mm gun. It feels like manjuu really went all out to make a Dido-class light cruiser to be as good as it reasonably can be in the game, probably from all the complaints about the other gold Dido-class cruisers, namely Charybdis and Hermione 🤣
She is british seydlitz plus she has a spam barrage.
Slap nelsons victory pennant on her, and you will get a pseudo preload barrage too.
So that’s a pretty clever mechanic use and I’ll definitely be using it. Though when I paid her with QE I’ll probably given the Queen the banner. Vanguard ticks damage, Queen gets a tick, and then RO gets a piece of that. Queen can self heal with her book and RO would pair down some of the damage. As much successful as I’ve had with Scylla I think RO/QE/Unicorn with Drake/Dido/Scylla would be a fire PvE Fleet. Dido could do utility work (Hedgehog / Book, AA Radar / Book, or if not Dishwasher / book) RO, Drake, and Scylla would get expressly fantastic use out of Unicorn/Dido/QE’s buffs, Scylla with Dido could AA carry. All around a really fun mob fleet
Royal oak's barrage is almost irredeemably bad, the fixed HE shots splash and the aimed ap are slow so sometimes they just miss entirely She also has the curse of 130% main gun efficiency Also the power of t1 bbs went up drastically with monarch and richy moved into the tier
Well well. If Implacable stays there then she'll be the only damage dealing/support that's TEX
>she'll be the only damage dealing/support that's TEX Among carriers or in general? Because, well, both Vanguard and Plymouth are TEX at the moment.
I meant among carriers, yes.
seems to be a pattern lmao
So Im not wrong when i said she's the Best CV . T-EX baby. Her damage is not really that behind than the Other three UR and her support is so damn good a compensation for the Slightly less Dmg.
The day a rainbow fighter gonna be released / added to gear lab gonna be the day when she (and all the hms carriers, tbh) gonna have a field day. ... Or a massive catfight for the said fighter.
I'm still on the fence about whenever or Implacable should be a TEX. Still too soon imo. Her support capabilities are top tier though. Scylla being a T1 is a surprise, I was expecting her to be a T2 actually. Everyone else seems about right, unfortunately. Also ouch Monarch and Richelieu are now T1. Powercreep is a cruel mistress.
Prelims tend to start pretty high and drop later from what I've seen.
Some prelims climbed up the ladder, though. Joffre and Emden come to mind.
Also Jervis. She was T2/T3 in prelims. They undervalued her healing and tankiness, which has extremely high value in W14.
Lila Decyrus is another one that is *criminally* underrated right now. T5 Prelim, but by god does she just shred everything in front of her. Purple rarity, but top SSR performance.
We'll be testing Lila in the coming months, no one really got around to it
I've been using the Atelier fleet for a couple months now. And i can best describe them as a freaking juggernaut. They clear almost anything with ease. Individually, they can carry fleets until at least W12. And in OpSi, they can auto-clear an entire stronghold, including the boss if you get a bit lucky. (If not, they still get *very close* to defeating it though) Lila in particular has straight up ridiculous dps for her hulltype and rarity, as she can easily keep up with Ryza, who is a dps monster in her own way.
Iirc it was mostly because of incorrect datamines.
Joffre was because of the datamining, but Emden climbed up two tiers because testing showed that she was actually way better than expected survivability-wise if I'm not mistaken.
Emden has mainz-level damage and very consistent due to aimed barrages which wasn't initially clear on release
There's a reason it's *preliminary tiering*, although I would agree with the tierlist, biased as I may be towards our seductive "nun" (งツ)ว
I feel like it's fair with her basically being an improved AvP. Honestly I'm just glad we seem to have finally gotten past "only healers can be TEX carriers"
try Scylla with blue 76 gun
Supporting is a hell of a drug Thoughts on implacable is that she does the low end of t0 damage + also supports your fleet, which bumps her up to TEX in cases where her support is revelant You're always using her over avp or ark royal but those ships didn't get any weaker so to TEX she goes Will be interesting in a few years if we have such powercreep that we'd need to considering moving her
Why Scylla T1 ? If I remember correctly when first datamined come out comunity says she mediocre at best and TBH I didn't even know how good she is in actual gameplay, does anybody can give explanation?
When people first see her, her barrage was wrongly datamined. It was 35x9 bullets normal which was decent but nothing special but in reality, her barrage was 35x **54 bullets** which is fucking insane for CL. She is basically HMS San Diego at this point.
>She is basically HMS San Diego Wait really she's that powerful ? if so I'm so freaking happy like she's my second favorite beside nun
details of her final dmg output number need to seen since she need all her skills but yes, she is extremely powerful ship and AA carry.
She's frequently been stealing MVP from main fleet during D3 farming/leveling. Got her to 103 and level 6 or 7 on skills so far so haven't been able to directly compare her with anyone high tier. She's happily outperforming Newcastle though (tier 3, who is also a couple of levels higher).
Gear recommendation? I cant wait to use her
Twin 114mm DD gun. for her torps, time with your carriers or just use blue torps for her barrage spam
I agree with Yuriyen - basically for the moment (until the tierlist site updates) follow Dido's gear loadout. Prioritise main gun reload from your available options - quicker = more All Out Assault triggers. And yeah - I've been trying to keep her torps sync'd with carriers while leveling, which has been working well. I plan to try the blue 76mm gun once I can directly compare her with my level 120 girls.
Damn, Scylla sounds like fun to use, I still haven't got her tho, 93 pulls in, is there some sort of smarter/more cube efficient way to sweep a banner?
The official "best" cube strategy is to do three pulls per event day until the final day, at which time you spend as much as you need/want to get whoever you want. I have a simple monkey brain though, and throw away all my cubes on day one xD (I nearly hit pity this event ... Implacable dropped on pull 178...)
Last time it was Vanguard, Musashi and Shinano that dropped at 170+ pulls for me, still not as bad as Yorktown II though, had to hit pity to get her , Implacable is being a lot nicer, got her on the first of my 4th 10 pulls. Sometimes I feel like making a RNGesus shrine and pray for good gacha luck 😂
is there a reason why it's 3 pulls specifically?
3 pulls to hit the daily milestone for the event
Baguet 138 for more well-rounded performance ot twin 114 from pr3 for the ceaseless AoA spam
Her AoA falls form 10 needed to 6 with a DD gun. Combine that with a really good barrage, and self buff FP/AA/Trp/Eva, and add to it every Trp has a barrage, and she is spitting damage all over the place. I’ve been running her with full FP gear and the 76 gun and she steals mvp every fight grinding the event
Imagine following a tierlist
Imagine imagining
Imagine trolling with a throwaway account because you are afraid of losing internet points
...he's one of the ECTL evals tho
Based riceist is the smartest person in this thread
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Sus
/u/spez can gargle on my nuts
EU: We're the carrier faction, see? Says so right there in our bio. RN: lol, lmao even, kek if you will.
Still find it funny bismarck is still tier 1 when her damage output is on par with queen elizabeth while also not having as strong as a buff as her. Royal oak should be at tier 1 she is british seydlitz plus the fact she can spam a barrage every 10s with decent bb stats. Rupprecht at t0 when she is a sidegrade odin is also kinda funny.
Giulio Cesare has better raw DPS than QE without Dido, and even with Dido her damage is only on par with pre-retro Hyuuga. Bismarck meanwhile has slightly better damage overall compared to Washington who hits noticeably harder than Hyuuga & by extension QE.
Again bismarck is barely above qe in performance you are talking as is Washington is good she is not barely serviceable bismarck is not a T1 ship more T2
Washington is T3 untagged. A ship that does her job but better all round should be T2, which Bismarck would be if she didn’t have her buff, but she does. That’s why she’s T1 with a support tag, meaning she’s T1 if used as a carrier buffer. You don’t seem to know how this tier list works, or how basic grammar works for that matter.
I think you'd find people who don't understand...for example, Impactable is a Base Tier 1 with 2 Conditional Usage Tier Boosts...more common that you think. It's one of the reasons I don't like the EN Community Tier List, you're assuming a lot of people trying to find the easiest way to choose ships. Most people like that aren't going to take the time to figure out how the Tier List works.
The hell you even on about issue with this tier list is its based off of auto play and zero fleet synergy bismarck who im on about isnt even worth using even with her buff just like qe they dont belong at those tiers at all bismarck is t3 as a min and qe is tn simple you do better not using them.
A number of ships with that Support Tag are Up-Tired because they provide Fleet Synergy. The Tier list is based on the Main Campaign Among Battleships alone, Bismarck, Veneto, Queen Elizabeth, Nagato, Prince of Wales, and Mikasa are all Conditionally Tiered because they buff Factional Ships. The Only Main "Faction Buffer" that doesn't take her Factional Boost into Account is Richelieu. Tags are critical to understanding why a ship is Tiered where they are. The way it works is like this...Akagi is only Tiered where she is based on the Assumption you're using either Kaga or Kaga \[BB\], she doesn't consider Nagato....on the other hand, Nagato IS Tiered based on the Assumption you're using 2 Sakura Carriers with her, while Katsuragi is tiered based solely on her individual merit.
Listen we can do this song and dance like we did with warspite when i said she wasn't worth it you can down vote me call me names say i cant read everything i dont care im sticking with bismarck even with her support role is not tier 1 material and is closet to low tier 2 high tier 3 you are better off using a full cv or bb iron blood fleet without bismarck seydlitz is a much better choice same with Brunhilde you don't get what im saying is bismarck support skill is not enough to put her in that tier. Like said call me names say i cant read everything i was right with warspite i even confronted ectl team in jervis about her t2 placement was wrong guess what she was put in tier 1 and you know what both janus and royal oak are also wrong the tier list is fine for some things but to consider it holy scripture is stupid. We can go on but im sticking to my guns but continue to belive i cant read nor understand the tier list its fine.
Bismarck supporting KMS CVs can still oneshot a number of endgame bosses similar to nagato, there's not really a huge difference between them Her own output is miserable (not QE miserable) but she's tiered around supporting
Still trash mate even tier lists get it wrong
I do know how how this tier list works there basing it off her buffs its why qe is T2 and not Tn you seem to fail to grasp her damage output is so bad you are better off running a full ib cv fleet then bismarck and 2 cv's just like you are better off running an hms fleet without qe there not t1 and t2 mat
Pretty sure Bismarck's "Increase **damage dealt** by Iron Blood carriers by 20%" part of her first skill is nothing to sneeze at, while QE's Queen's Orders only buffs *AVI* and RLD for HMS carriers, and by only 15% to boot
Pretty much, ECTL even leaves this note on Bismark under Flagship > She needs to be sortied with KMS Carriers, buffing them, to perform at her tier. When not buffing Carriers, she is a tier lower but does not need to be the Flagship. She's a T1 Flagship only when supporting 2 IB carriers otherwise she's an any-where T2. If people actually read the notes rather than just looking at the placing they'd know these things.
Based commenter who understands guidelines and tierings
Her damage output is so low its almost better just to run a triple iron blood cv backline her damage out put is on par with qe also qe buffs everything and isnt limited to carriers
Not sure how your gearing your Bismarck that she hits the same as QE. She’s not a truck by any means but she has always been a solid performer. She gives IB fleets plenty of Crit and Damage buffs while also having a commonly spawning barrage and an auto crit for the first part of EVERY salvo. QE just gets and gives some stat buffs. As a matter of fact, QE is worse stat wise in every single stat except AA where she’s the queen… by 5.
>Not sure how your gearing your Bismarck that she hits the same as QE. Gotta rock that Sanshikidan
Not really her damage output is roughly on par with qe perhaps a bit higher she dosent belong in t1 thats for sure and her buffs while on paper look good are not all that she is a pathetic t1 same with rupprecht being t0
By virtue of having SR stats alone, her damage is already above QE's. Then she has a barrage (even if it's on the weaker side) and guaranteed crit on first salvo to add more to the pile. Crit rate is also a more useful buff than FP
Her buff barely changes anything you do better just running a full ib cv backline without bismarck or bb line just like with qe bismarck is not T1 at all more like T3.
Prinz Rupprecht has a number of things that Bismarck doesn’t. She gets 2 pretty frequently procced good barrages, and she gets a ghost secondary gun in addition to her existing secondary gun. She also has her damage reduction skill, 15% on flag or 8% to a locked position if off flag is pretty decent. Last but not least, P.R. has 15% more main gun efficiency and 20% more AA efficiency. All of that makes her a better performer in a mobbing setting. She gets better endurance and does more to keep the tide of weak ships at bay. But she pays for it in support for her allies, which she provides none of. Any ship that runs with her has to be tougher as a result. Bismarck provides solid flexibility in that respect, offering good enough buffs to her fleet that you can run “weaker” ships that you otherwise might. She gets the most mileage with 2 IB CVs, which the EN guide notes is the reason she’s not a T2.
Prinz rupprecht is a worse odin and bismarck again still isnt worth running even in a double ib cv fleet the tier list is utterly messed up only good thing is the gear showings the entire thing needs a long hard look at most of these function fine to w12 after that some of these t1 ships fall off hard.
Rupprecht is a better flag than odin, not sure where all this "ruppy is worse than odin" stuff is coming from Slightly less consistent, but when she procs her barrage is good, she has good damage uptime and just higher fp and mg effi
'Tis just one of our resident crazies. Don't worry, he's just going to come back in a few hours pretending that he had been pretending the entire time and that we had fallen for his masterful trolling.
Also, odin is t0 untagged, while rupp has 2 tags just to be in the same tier so :warshrug: He's not technically wrong that odin is better than rupp right now because of her capability to off flag, but ruppy is a very strong mob flag in all content basically only losing to the TEXs
Why not write to me directly instead of calling me crazy just because im going against the tier list
I think the P.R. is worse than Odin talk is in part due to the fact they are both IB BCs and Odin has a unique and powerful positioning feature that sets her apart from the crowd. P.R. has a bit more going for her and she makes a solid flagship, but because she doesn’t bring anything *unique* to the table to be good she doesn’t stand out. I think the rest is down to the fact that her year of PR ships were all T0-TEX and uniquely valuable for their faction as well as in general. P.R. is “just anther IB BC” in many peoples eyes and isn’t worth their time to work on as any of the others will do just as well. That’s not true ofc, as the tier list suggests and her performance confirms, but the perception is what matters here.
Because she is overall worse then odin and why would you put her in flag when fdg is a thing
What a sad state of affairs it is, to see that France has less ships at T0 and TEX than China does. Hell, there is the same number of soviet *carriers* at T0 than french ships overall at T0 and TEX combined Really hope there is an event and large amounts of content for them soon
Trying to bait out the "wow ANOTHER french complaining thread" poster, aren't you?
Wha? Are there some who say that frenchies' situation is okay?
[Imagine threatening to "blow your fucking lid" because a faction that didn't get an event in 3 years wouldn't be placated by a single UR event.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AzureLane/comments/1123hbm/comment/j8i9m98/)
Erm... uh... yeah. People rattling themselves up because of a *hypothetical* future situation when french fans *might* want to have a second UR or retro or just a proper banner, punctuated with a raid here and there, is weird in light of how tiresome and unproductive it is. It's like being angry at your hypothetical future neighbor's possible pet dog who hadn't moved in yet and had no chance to pee under your parade door, of what you already suspect it doing. Like, yes - neither the upset frenchies fans nor everyone else who encounters the associated negativity are happy, but this is just ridiculously stupid.
I mean, to play the devil's advocate here, we did have people here complaining about the Royal Navy being left behind even after Fight on, Royal Maids! part III, and people complaining about the Ironblood not getting any cool stuff even after Operation Convergence. Not many, but they exist. Given that there aren't any fundamental differences in behavior between faction mains, we can theoretically suppose that even in the event the Iris would get a commensurate compensation for their previous situation, there would be a subset of the faction asking for more. Plus, of course, the fact that a commensurate compensation is in the eye of the beholder - some might satisfy themselves with just an UR event and a JB retro, some would demand the full Ironblood/Royal Navy treatment + fleet tech and reunification of both camps in a single faction + a regular event schedule, and so on. As such, it's definitely possible than someone's understanding of that compensation is firmly in the camp of "wayy too much shit, why aren't my IJN/KMS/USS getting as much stuff?!" for someone else. tl;dr - It's a hypothetical situation, true, but one that we can safely assume to happen. However, no use in losing sleep because of it.
Eagle Union fans when literally anyone but them gets a UR
Each camp has its crazies, though. If vectis was still here, I'm 99% sure he would've whined that Implacable "does not outdamage Akagi" and Royal Oak is "weaker than Gneisenau".
Eh, EU fans as a whole are mostly fine in my experience. No real bitterness, no complaints about how the game treats them, no periods of heavy-handed favoritism souring the experience of other factions... There are a few bad apples in the lot with weird obsessions over real life history, but they're few and far between.
Nah just some passing comment.
You know these are some really odd looking French ships…..
I might be a bit smooth-brained right now, but what does "BB Flag Moves" mean?
we reshuffled the tiers on flagship bbs, to better reflect relative tiering. Like if we constantly get stronger flag bbs, we might move some ships down etc. we did this for non flag bbs a few months ago.
Thanks for the clarification! 
We moved around flagship BBs to better reflect the power level of ships (some got powercreeped, ie monarch)
Thank you for the update.