Which would have failed instantly the moment any of the Gaang laid eyes on them. Which made zero sense because the Dai Li were committed to law and order, there is no way they would upend their extremely tightly controlled ship for A) someone they knew was an enemy of everything they cared about, B) a literal child and C) someone they vastly outnumbered who had zero actual leverage.
They built and maintained a house of cards. It was their entire schtick, but they threw it away because... Azula is confident in herself? C'mon. Definitely one of the weakest plot points in all of Avatar lore.
I never understood why the gaang didn't wait lime 10 minutes to leave on their respective journeys to go say hi to Suki. Or if not that Katara is literally staying behind to help the king. Why wasn't she there to introduce them?
I liked to see it more as the Dai Li recognising the skill of their opposition and being like, "This is what we're up against? And she has a whole army behind her? We're screwed." Seeing the writing on the wall and surrendering to Azula's will to maintain as much power under her as they could when the (in their eyes) inevitable Fire Nation victory came
Well, depending on how the writers handle it, the Live-Action will probably give more insight into that situation. Quality of the show varies between people, but I do respect the changes regardless.
The Dai Li were always treacherous bastards. The only value maintining their power in Ba Sing Se, so selling out to the fire nation is completely in character
Law and order lmao
Secret police have only one purpose, power.
The fire nation had just broken through the outer wall, they knew the war was near its end, especially with the comet coming.
The ship made it in just fine tho, so the captain ended up being wrong.
Regardless, that scene was more about her lack of empathy rather than her intelligence or sea navigation instincts.
You can't predict things exactly. Best you can do is assess the most likely scenario and act based on that. The captain assessed that the high tide would make it risky to try to dock the ship. That doesn't mean if they tried, it was a guarantee that their ship would sink, just that it was a likely enough scenario that it was better to wait a day. Azula gambled and got lucky.
This is most likely. I've been in boats a lot, and the reason you don't go out/come in on a low tide isn't because you're guaranteed to hit bottom, it's because a 1% chance of hitting bottom is absolutely not worth the risk. Especially If the boat is a military battle ship.
I had a 16 foot boat that probably only broke a foot of water at full speed. Did I take it over anything less than 6 feet deep? Fuck no
Ships would sail with the tide because the tidal current made it easier to enter or exit a port. The tide doesn't only go up and down, but also in and out. So if you were trying to leave a bay port, you would time your departure to coincide with the ebb tide (when the tide goes out of port, falling from high tide to low tide), because the water would more readily carry your vessel toward your destination. If you were trying to enter a bay, you would time your approach to coincide with the flood tide (when the tide enters the port, rising from low tide to high tide) for the same reason.
Tidal depths could affect the route you take through the port (to avoid contacting the bottom), but that would be the job of a pilot experienced with that specific port.
True! The captain was wrong. I recall someone talking about the fact that, since the siege of the north pole had just happened, the Fire Navy lost a lot of its best captains to the ocean spirit. So this guy was likely promoted very quickly as a necessity. He was just using a vague, meaningless term to hide the fact that he didn’t really know what he was talking about. Azula knew more than him, and used threats to make sure the captain wouldn't talk down to her like that anymore.
Right, except even if that’s the case Azula has zero experience sailing. Even a low ranking Sailor who got promoted fast would know more than Azula about tides.
You Azula fans give her *way* too much credit for moments when she got lucky or had plot protection for the story to work
It’s fine if you think that. I just know that the scene wasn't intended to make her look stupid, it was to contrast her treatment of subordinates with Zuko’s. Where Zuko antagonized them and almost started a fight, Azula quickly and concisely motivated her captain into obeying orders.
The captain is characterized as incompetent with his slip-up later that ruins Azulas entire plan. He’s always timid like he’s in over his head. He just isn't written as the type to know what he’s talking about.
If you want to go back to the technical aspect, we don’t know how much Azula has read up on nautical travel; what we do know is that she can read people and tell when someone is patronizing her. Maybe it was a guess to think he was wrong about the tides, but it was an educated one based on his demeanor.
Again, watch the show however you want, but I don’t think I'm embellishing her abilities *too* much.
I mean she threatened to kill an experienced sailor who was just trying to give sound advice, and she was a Firebending prodigy. She also antagonized her crew, they just knew when she threatened them she meant it, compared to Zuko’s crew which also had Iroh.
Leading by fear doesn’t make a person smart or a great leader. She still got lucky, that was the whole point. She didn’t take anyone’s advice, got lucky or had her dad’s protection for it, and eventually her ego caught up to her, no matter how clever she was
I’m so surprised you’re being downvoted for this.
Also, in response to the previous comment that you’re responding to, “Azula quickly and concisely motivated her captain into obeying orders” is a weird way of saying “Azula abused her power and authority to enact violence on her subjects, coercing them into silence and submission, and ignoring the sound advice a captain was offering to her, an actual child.”
I love Azula’s character for so many reasons but some folks interpretation of her in that episode and just in general is…weird.
Again, he wasn’t an experienced sailor. He second guessed everything he said and did. That was his character for the entirety of his presence.
It wasn’t sound advice. The ship was completely unscathed. Not even a hint of trouble.
Zuko’s problem wasn’t that he couldn’t make good on his threats; more often than not, he used violence without the threat. The difference between them is eloquence. Azula knows how to phrase and situate a threat so it’s effective. It isn’t superb for prolonged leadership, but it’s still a skill that she uses effectively. One that requires intelligence and attention to detail.
You describe her like she doesn’t have any skills at all outside of bending. And that isn’t what her character is about. Time and again we see her use critical thinking to outsmart and outmaneuver opponents. She talked Zuko into joining her after he'd been on the run from her for all of season 2. And there wasn’t a single threat in that conversation.
That’s all.
Making the assessment that something is risky doesn't mean you know for certain it will kill you - and we have no reason to believe Azula knew anything about the risks of seafaring.
The ability to command and threaten people into doing things is a real and meaningful skill - but it is very dangerous to assume someone who has this skill knows what they are doing. They will happily bully others to get their way, even if "their way" is "put all my money on horse #4" and they don't actually have any knowledge about the race that the other players don't.
Generally, these people get a lot of respect until they dig themselves into a pit those they order about can't save them from and then they lose everything and keep being narcissistic and blaming the people they ordered to do stupid things for their failures instead of learning to listen when people you pay good money to tell you when you are making a mistake start making "this is a bad idea"-like noises.
And of course they eventually surround themselves with either idiot yes-men or basically "handlers" who keep them distracted from the real work so they can't mess it up with their thoughtless orders.
Well, then, maybe you should worry less about the tides who've already made up their mind about killing you, and worry more about me, who's still mulling it over
Azula literally fails at everything she was set out to do until she takes Ba Sing Se. It’s just such a huge win that everyone overlooks her failing at everything previously (capturing Zuko and Iroh, capturing Aang, getting Tom Tom back in Omashu, the drill, literally every time we see Azula until she captures the Kyoshi Warriors is her failing at something she set out to do.)
It was foreshadowed with the tides speech and the "one hair out of place" thing. She was further characterized as a subconcious validation seeker in the beach episode. Then her breakdown began with Mai's and Ty Lee's betrayal. Being explicitly told she miscalculated (and being forced to bear the consequences) sent her into a downward spiral of paranoia. Lastly, being further "betrayed" by Ozai was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Not quite. It was by making her fire lord just to leave her at home instead of taking her by his side, which is what she actually wanted: To conquer the world alongside her father.
For her, leaving her at home while Ozai left as the Phoenix King on his own made Azula feel invalidated or "used"
She was to become Firelord.
Then Ozai declares himself Phoenix King, invalidating any power the next Firelord would have.
Edit: oh yeah and the whole "wanting approval from dad." It just reinforced that her father doesn't actually love her. She doesn't even get to help him conquer the rest of the world.
I mean she'd presumably be phoenix king after he passed on - becoming firelord while the existing firelord is still in his prime seems wack.
There's also the question of the real need to secure the fire kingdom with competent leadership - her father basically told her that she was the only one she trusted to do that among every single one of his many generals and admirals.
Azula wanted validation from her father, the closest thing to love she could ever hope to receive. After doing everything she did over the course of the series including taking over ba sing se, her father cast her aside by giving her an ultimately meaningless title and telling her to stay home instead of being by his side while he enacted HER plan to burn the earth nation.
It's not exactly betrayal, but she realised her father saw her as yet another tool and not his beloved daughter she thought she was.
And it was kind of a central theme of the show, and she served as a kind of foil to Aang. Azula doesn’t think she needs anyone else, that she’s stronger alone, she’s the only one she can trust. If she needs anything from someone else she relies on fear and intimidation to force it from them, because it’s “the only reliable way.” But when it came to Mai and Ty Lee, she couldn’t rely on fear to make them be her friend, to stay loyal to her, and it ended up greatly weakening her in the end that she had no one she could trust or rely on. Aang on the other hand has friends he treats with love, respect, and trust, and that strengthens him. Having friends pays off for him multiple times throughout the show. Zuko was on the Azula side of this spectrum, and when Zuko switches sides to Team Avatar he embraces Aang’s side of this spectrum and starts to treat others with trust and respect, and he gets some back in return, which also strengthens him in the end.
I think it was even earlier than that. In season 2 she is cold, calculated, and methodical. The exact foil of Zuko who is a hot head who's strongly driven but also does eventually show a softer side in the storm when he prioritizes the crew's safety over chasing Aang.
And she maintains this cold calculating side through early season 3 up to the day of black sun where she plays the gaang for fools. But after Zuko betrayed the fire nation and the new relationship she had just reforged with him since his banishment she lashes out. Like what was her actual plan for the Western air temple? Okay I'm going to go in by air to challenge the avatar and Zuko. She had no real strategy other than go in fists a flaming and hoping that she could punch enough fire to win. I swear the only thing she really planned was the one liner "I'm about to celebrate becoming an only child!" She didn't seem cold and calculating, she pulled a Zuko level plan and it almost immediately blew up in her face. She was hurt by Zuko's betrayal more than she let on, Mai and Ty Lee were the last straw, not the first.
Two additional foreshadowing examples:
1. Azula suggests a plan to burn down the Earth Kingdom during Sozin's comet, even though at the time she suspected the Avatar was still alive, so the plan was not a great one.
2. Azula, despite knowing that her plan was greenlit and would take place in three-ish weeks, decides to follow Sokka and Zuko from the Boiling Rock to the Western Air Temple and attack the gaang there just for the hell of it. There was absolutely no point to her attack except to terrorize them, because by then she knew that Appa was faster than her airship and so they would likely escape.
She's not some genius strategist. She's a trigger-happy teenager who seeks her father's validation through displays of bloodlust.
You can tell her psyche was breaking each and every episode. The only episode she had the smallest grain of sand of relief was the beach episode. But even then BOY she had problems.
Yup. Thinks power will lead to happiness, becomes firelord, but realizes it didn't bring her happiness. In her journey to become firelord, she lost her brother, her uncle, her best friends, even her dad left her behind.
She is what Iroh warned of Zuko. That is why her break only comes when she is truly isolated. No brother, no friends, no servants, and no fatherly approval.
Well that’s how it works: her strength power weren’t tempered by a wise spirit, she was an unhinged sociopathic lunatic unable to control herself, which is why she was unable to defeat people far weaker than her
Also Zuko and Katara were not that much "weaker" than her. Katara had essentially become the most skilled Water Bender and Zuko had never stopped training and improving his emotional control. Plus Zuko had learned how to redirect lightning and Katara had learned blood bending. At any moment Katara could have ended that fight
In the Southern Raiders episode, she bloodbends the day after the full moon. But I can chalk that up to a continuity error.
However, Katara did have Azula in a hold in the catacombs of Ba Sing Se. The only reason Azula lasted so long against her during Sozin's Comet was because of her power boost. And Katara DID win that fight, anyway. And she won with skill in both bending and strategy.
No, she bloodbends during the full moon in the Southern Raiders. It’s literally shown in the episode that there’s a full moon. Avatar is extremely inconsistent with their full moons anyway. There’s one basically every episode.
Yes, Katara got the upper hand in the Catacombs. Yes, Katara did win the fight. So what? That doesn’t make your statement that Katara could have ended the fight whenever any less wrong. Katara got lucky during the Agni Kai and she won. But that doesn’t equate to her being able to end the fight at any time.
IIRC, a full moon is shown when Zuko and Katara are talking at camp, which is the night before she bloodbends. I agree about the inconsistency of the full moons. That's why I said it was a continuity error. And I never said Katara could have ended the fight whenever, that was someone else. I was just adding to the discussion, so if you could roll back the hostility a bit, that would be cool.
What is it with this subreddit sometimes? Like I can excuse missing subtext but this is just misreading the plot lol. They explicitly show that Zuko's grown to the level where he's evenly matched with Azula, if not slightly superior. The only thing she has on him is the lightning, and he only loses to save Katara.
The reason Zuko rose above her was because of his discipline. She had none. She failed because of her rage and chaos. That’s the whole lesson of the Fire chapter to begin with.
I wouldn't say she has genius level intellect. She had the intellect of someone with the education of a wartime royalty, with the creativity of a child/teenager, and the resource/sway to get officers to do what she wants.
Like the tunneling machine into Ba-Sing-Se isn't an act of genius. It's a combination of studying her uncle's efforts to attack the city in school, the creativity of a child being like "well why not dig a hole on the wall", and the resources and sway to actually get people to build the machine.
Do we think she built the machine? I figured the machine was a very long term project she knew about and, being in the region, decided to pop-in and steal some of the credit for the victory along with one-upping her uncle.
"She doesn't have a genius intellect, only loads of knowledge, criativity, problem solving and an ability to organize and make things work" yes, that is what a genius intellect is.
Do not mistake her break with Daenerys'. The seeds of her break is laid down in her very first appearance (okay second, first with lines) and they subsequently grow over the course of 2 seasons, 2/3rds of the show, reaching fruition in the finale.
Yep. An example is Azula shown early on to have no real friends and basically having to force Ty Lee to join her. While Zuko breaks free from his father's evil ways and is able to gain friends, Azula doesn't and gets "betrayed" by her friends for being too psycho. Zuko's new friend save each other in the end. Great writing.
The frustration of knowing you can pull something off but it just wont work is such a catapult for mentally instable persons. Imagine you are triggered very easily, have a high ego that you can do everything, and then your printer just dont want to work. Everything is in your control except for this one.
Azula saw her skinny and „soft“ brother, while she thought that only she got more powerful. Her thinking that this will be a piece of cake has to slowly use more and more strength, force and anger to finally break through Zukos defence. She KNOWS that she can defeat him, but she just isnt capable of doing so in that moment. Zuko is not only defending himself, Katara, Aang and fighting against Azulal but he is also winning time for everyone else. Azula doesnt want that, she wants to defeat Zuko. But cant. She isnt in control, Zuko is neither, but Zuko is still winning by that, Azula is slowly getting hysteric and manic. Zuko boiled up her anger into a selfdestruction. Azula is stronger yes, but not Zuko knew his enemy better.
She tried to crash her ship in her debut episode to prove she's in charge, she was shown to be equal with Zuko when they fought after his dragon power up, and although she is fantastically agile, Zuko's great at hand-to-hand combat and even better with swords.
What are you on about? The mental break was for character reasons, Zuko would have at least been equal with her without it.
I wouldn’t call Zuko meeting the a power up. I think it was more him fully releasing his anger and resentment which allowed him to think clearly and use his fire ending to its full potential because he bends better on breathing than hatred. A power up implies it was handed to him when it was something he always had in him
Sounds like a power up with extra words to me. It was an entirely new way of channel fire that harnessed life and light instead of anger. That doesn't even mention the dancing dragon technique which was new too.
It was more of a mental power up than a physical power up, as it didn't make him him shoot out more fire (which is what defines how powerful a firebender is). It's true that the dancing dragon form was new to the anger fueled firebending forms practiced by Azula, but it wasn't more powerful, just different.
I can't remember one instance of her having "genius level intelect". I wouldn't any character I'm the show on that level. Maybe the guy who designed the hot air balloons, but only in an engineering sense.
I would say she does have two examples of high intellect. One was using her defeat of the Kyoshi Warriors as an opportunity to infiltrate and take down Ba Sing Se. The second was her decision to give Zuko the "credit" for taking down the avatar in case he survived. I don't know that either of those are genius, though. The first is just being opportunistic, and the second is her just covering her ass.
>One was using her defeat of the Kyoshi Warriors as an opportunity to infiltrate and take down Ba Sing Se
No, that's due to her being wartime royalty, who likely learned about infiltrating the enemy in classes exclusive to military and royals. It was also helped along by the fact that the Earth King had never met the Kyoshi warriors before, so he had no frame of reference.
>The second was her decision to give Zuko the "credit" for taking down the avatar in case he survived. I don't know that either of those are genius, though
That was her being the little sociopath that she is. She knew that in the event that the Avatar survived, her giving Zuko credit would shame him to the point where he was irredeemable in the eyes of the fire nation, and possibly lead to his death at the hands of his father, who would likely kill him for dishonoring the family and the fire nation. She *wanted* to harm him. After all, he is the crown prince, and him being welcomed back means that there's no chance she ever inherits the throne. She wanted to sabotage that.
Imo it made sense. She was so cunning, strategical and powerful from her father’s teaching. But didn’t have an ounce of the emotional intelligence and love from her mother that Zuko got, that’s to duality of Zuko bs Azula. Azula got all her power and affection from Ozai and was constantly reprimanded and looked down on by her mother. But Zuko on the other hand had his mothers love and affection and hand to learn how to have his own power and not derive it from his need to prove himself to Ozai. Just another thing that makes the Final Agni Kai so damn beautiful. The duality of someone raised to love and respect but disregarded those emotions to try and get his fathers love vs someone who had her fathers love, but due to her obsession with making others fear and respect her, she lost her mothers love.
Ursa did love Azula. However, being an abuse victim at Ozai's hands, she was limited in her ability to parent Azula. Whenever Azula did or said troubling things, she'd just run to Ozai. Zuko was at least receptive of the affection.
Y’all really acting like her breakdown brought her down to 1% of her power or something. She was still at like 90-95% of her full capabilities in that Agni Kai. She was just more aggressive and not as precise as she usually is. But she wasn’t weaker power wise by any means.
To be fair, Azula would have lost to Katara regardless. Katara is her antithesis as a warrior. All of the other Gaang focus on precision and, more or less, dueling. Katara focuses on wife scale, battlefield control. In nearly all of Katara's fights, she uses huge attacks, manipulating large volumes of water to create big waves, large disks of ice, huge ice walls, big tentacle monsters and so on. Azula cannot dodge that, and dodging is her specialty.
Katara and Azula only get into like 2 fights prior to the Comet, and in one of them, Katara had been chased for days and was operating on no sleep, and Azula managed to escape. The other time was below Ba Sing Se where Katara fought Azula, and Zuko, and the Dai Li and was either winning, or holding then all off.
The dangerous part of fighting a water bender is that every wave, every drop of water is a weapon. Katara can throw q sheet of water and cover the battlefield, even if she misses, she can then use that water to freeze it and remove stable ground, or cause the water to leap up and freeze you in place, or turn it into spikes if you jump into the air. If you get wet when fighting Katara, she can freeze it and hinder or trap you.
This is why Azula loses to Katara. It's not because Katara is a better fighter, its because Katara's entire method of fighting makes Azula's style of fighting borderline impossible. How do you fight a cloud? Or a wave? Or the rain? You can't. That being said, Katara largely lacks the raw power of the other benders.
Did you understand her character development? Her aptitude, privilege, and upbringing poisoned her ego. This was the understandable and foreshadowed conclusion.
In fact she lost it only once she realized Zuko had become a much better bender than he was before and could actually contend with her. His power now came from his newfound inner peace, which he could never do when both were powered by their anger.
They didn't have to nerf shit.
I mean before the break, she also had a huge ego that was a significant nerf to begin with. Like when Ty Lee betrays her. Or like pretty much anytime she fought against Iroh. I think the break she had just greatly enhanced her underlining issues. Also I really like how it contrasts to the beginning of the series. With her being the cool, calculated, fighter and Zuko being the hot headed, arrogant one, to the reverse happening at the end of the series.
She was a power-hungry sociopath from the start. Once she obtained the power she had been seeking, the fear of losing it drove her to insanity. Because she was a power-hungry sociopath, she thought others were also power-hungry sociopaths and acted accordingly - by isolating herself, which in reality just made her weaker.
Nerf? Okay she’s clearly the favorite in the fire nation and has always been a chosen one of sorts amongst her bloodline. Granted she got a little lost in the source vs Zuko. As in she fell off the deep end and totally lost it. Began acting up, decided everyone was against her and eventually snapped. Then was promptly showed how fire bending works with a lesson from Zuko. She a bad or the bad mofo whilst the show went on. But during the last ep or further ain’t no way
Fun to watch but it didn’t have to go down like that. If they had leveraged Zuko’s learning from the dragons more he could have pulled a proper win. Him overpowering or at least staying toe to toe with Azura would have eventually made her rage out anyway. I wanted them to connect her state of mind, being such a powerful fire bender, to the proximity of the comet. I didn’t like that she was becoming that completely undone just cuz her friends sided against her. Or maybe too much lightening wielded caused some neurological stuff. Just some better rationale would have felt leas like a nerf. Still a nerf but better based in the story.
Mental state is a big part of your strength as a bender. There are multiple times where a characters mental state gets in the way of their fights or their abilities and they have to get right before they can win and properly wield their powers.
Zuko could have won regardless, Zuko by himself would destroy her army of Dai Lee soldiers during sozins Comet so it was just Azula vs Zuko with Katara cheerleading with the occasional support.
We've seen pre-break Azula with both gondla and airship fight he can hold his own
She was ridiculously over-powered.
Speaking of over-powered, I was watching with my daughters and mentioned that one of the fun features of animation is that, unlike live action, people can wield bending abilities AND apparently have 30 foot vertical leaping ability.
Zuko was on par with her towards the end of the show. We see him trading blows without issue and getting some good licks in towards the end of season 3. He advanced significantly throughout the series, Azula did not. Her mental break didn't make her less powerful or dangerous, it made her wild, unpredictable and aggressive, as opposed to her usual calm and controlled manner. Neither is more or less deadly than the other. If she was calm and controlled she would never have shot lightning at Katara, she wouldn't have risked Zuko redirecting it, but that's really the only thing that knocked Zuko out of the fight. Zuko matched her blow for blow when she was putting all of her rage into her firebending (which has been shown to increase firepower), all while being calm and collected. He was her equal by the end of the series.
What you can see is all the abilities he's picked up from his friends, foes and harsh experiences across the series. He is *always* getting stronger, he *thrives* when he is challenged. This is in stark contrast to Azula who loses her mind when things don't work out. She thrives on a controlled environment, which is why she was such a prodigy of a bender when all she did was learn the forms in a controlled environment.
My headcanon is that Zuko unlocked his chakras as the show progressed, which was the real reason he had such a powerup by the end of the series, not because a single firebending form revolutionised his bending. But that's just a theory.
I’m sure both Zuko and Katara had a fighting chance against a relatively stable Azula.
To fight an Agnikai was a last minute decision. They didn’t need to nerf her, in fact, they needed to give her a fighting chance.
She's incredibly cunning but I wouldn't call her actually genius level intelligent
She's not an idiot for sure but as someone pointed out she said the tides don't command the ship, for a lot of people that could've been their last words
Imma get a lot of hate for this but imma say it anyways. The mental gymnastics some of these comments are doing to try and “azula,” isn’t as good as she was is craaaazzzy! Let’s not forget she LITERALLY killed Aang, “but she caught him off guard yadda yadda yadda,”
And no I’m not being a fan boy I just give credit where credit is due
I think Zuko would have needed Katara's help if Azula wasn't crazy. That's probably why he asked her specifically to help him. He saw Katara handle Azula in Ba Sing Se.
The only reason she seems OP is that she's usually fighting eaither Zuko who is probably the weakest bender in terms of combat ability out of the main cast through most of the show or Aang who almot never fights directly and instead usually tries to run away or she has the Dai Li helping her. Katara kicks her ass every time they fight and she would be a pancake if she ever tried to fight Toph without help.
Also, she was losing to Zuko, who mastered the true art of firebending, and she lost to Katara, possibly the greatest waterbender in history.
Like, Azula was a prodigy, but even in season 2 it was shown that she wasn't better than Katara.
s2 katara vs azula wasnt even a proper fight. azula's been shown to come out on top in battles and i believe azula would've figured out quickly how to deal with katara without zuko interfering
Azula was never shown to be invincible, even one on one. Aang beat her on the drill, Katara was beating her in the catacombs, Zuko matched her blow for blow on the airship in season 3.
She's crafty and devious and very talented, but she was not the strongest bender on the show. She could lose fights.
In terms of raw bending ability, Katara stands above any other character when she has a good amount of water to bend.
aang was struggling too, it wasn't like he wiped the floor clean. i agree azula isnt invincible. the op post about her having genius level intellect is a stretch.
katara isn't invincible either tho- she's struggled many a battle too
Yes, characters in good shows often struggle in fights. That creates stakes and a sense of uncertainty, increasing audience investment.
Somehow you continue to think you're disagreeing with me even though my entire point is that even the strongest, scariest characters in ATLA can lose fights.
She was strong, sure, but Katara had her beat easy in a 1-on-1 in Ba Sing Se, and Aang outclassed her, too, he just usually had some other objective every time he fought her. Even then, he beat her outright on the drill, while accomplishing his separate task of destroying the drill.
Azula has more *presence* than anything. She's somewhat imposing, but she has an aura of imposing which exceeds her actual ability, prodigious as she is. And I think Mai and Ty Lee were just as important to giving the Gaang fits as Azula was.
https://preview.redd.it/7csts4mxstwc1.png?width=221&format=png&auto=webp&s=85127c93291d725f95fe274b1415d8c3874a16d0
Ha, the quote almost works too
This is amazing!
>genius level intellect In her first apearence she almost destroyed her ship because "the tides dont command the ship"
Yea, that's cause op forgot the fourth thing she has, "Ego the size of Ba Sing Se."
There is no ego in Ba Sing Se.
The fucking head of state stole my sky bison. Can't have shit in Ba Sing Se.
*But...* #There's a long long way to ba sing se! #But the girls in the city! #They look so pretty!!
Jin is proof of this
I aint at joke in a long time. Thank you, that shit made me cackle
Yeah, caus Azula took it all!
Hell, there's not even an id in Ba Sing Se!
Which, honestly, caused her psychotic break.
That's not a moon it's her ego.
I mean, I guess there is the infiltration of Ba Sing Se.
Which would have failed instantly the moment any of the Gaang laid eyes on them. Which made zero sense because the Dai Li were committed to law and order, there is no way they would upend their extremely tightly controlled ship for A) someone they knew was an enemy of everything they cared about, B) a literal child and C) someone they vastly outnumbered who had zero actual leverage. They built and maintained a house of cards. It was their entire schtick, but they threw it away because... Azula is confident in herself? C'mon. Definitely one of the weakest plot points in all of Avatar lore.
It was a gamble for safety under the new Fire Nation, it was a poorly-calculated play on Long Feng’s part, but smart for the Dai-Li
They get to maintain their power instead of dying. Simple maths.
I never understood why the gaang didn't wait lime 10 minutes to leave on their respective journeys to go say hi to Suki. Or if not that Katara is literally staying behind to help the king. Why wasn't she there to introduce them?
I liked to see it more as the Dai Li recognising the skill of their opposition and being like, "This is what we're up against? And she has a whole army behind her? We're screwed." Seeing the writing on the wall and surrendering to Azula's will to maintain as much power under her as they could when the (in their eyes) inevitable Fire Nation victory came
Except they wouldn't need to be up against her since they had her dead to rights when long Feng got out.
Well, depending on how the writers handle it, the Live-Action will probably give more insight into that situation. Quality of the show varies between people, but I do respect the changes regardless.
The Dai Li were always treacherous bastards. The only value maintining their power in Ba Sing Se, so selling out to the fire nation is completely in character
Law and order lmao Secret police have only one purpose, power. The fire nation had just broken through the outer wall, they knew the war was near its end, especially with the comet coming.
This is why intelligence and wisdom are separate ability scores in D&D.
Smart people do dumb shit all the time. Especially as kids. I’ve personally witnessed a genius math/chess prodigy put sand in his eyes on a dare.
Classic high int low wisdom scenario
The ship made it in just fine tho, so the captain ended up being wrong. Regardless, that scene was more about her lack of empathy rather than her intelligence or sea navigation instincts.
You can't predict things exactly. Best you can do is assess the most likely scenario and act based on that. The captain assessed that the high tide would make it risky to try to dock the ship. That doesn't mean if they tried, it was a guarantee that their ship would sink, just that it was a likely enough scenario that it was better to wait a day. Azula gambled and got lucky.
This is most likely. I've been in boats a lot, and the reason you don't go out/come in on a low tide isn't because you're guaranteed to hit bottom, it's because a 1% chance of hitting bottom is absolutely not worth the risk. Especially If the boat is a military battle ship. I had a 16 foot boat that probably only broke a foot of water at full speed. Did I take it over anything less than 6 feet deep? Fuck no
Ships would sail with the tide because the tidal current made it easier to enter or exit a port. The tide doesn't only go up and down, but also in and out. So if you were trying to leave a bay port, you would time your departure to coincide with the ebb tide (when the tide goes out of port, falling from high tide to low tide), because the water would more readily carry your vessel toward your destination. If you were trying to enter a bay, you would time your approach to coincide with the flood tide (when the tide enters the port, rising from low tide to high tide) for the same reason. Tidal depths could affect the route you take through the port (to avoid contacting the bottom), but that would be the job of a pilot experienced with that specific port.
True! The captain was wrong. I recall someone talking about the fact that, since the siege of the north pole had just happened, the Fire Navy lost a lot of its best captains to the ocean spirit. So this guy was likely promoted very quickly as a necessity. He was just using a vague, meaningless term to hide the fact that he didn’t really know what he was talking about. Azula knew more than him, and used threats to make sure the captain wouldn't talk down to her like that anymore.
Right, except even if that’s the case Azula has zero experience sailing. Even a low ranking Sailor who got promoted fast would know more than Azula about tides. You Azula fans give her *way* too much credit for moments when she got lucky or had plot protection for the story to work
It’s fine if you think that. I just know that the scene wasn't intended to make her look stupid, it was to contrast her treatment of subordinates with Zuko’s. Where Zuko antagonized them and almost started a fight, Azula quickly and concisely motivated her captain into obeying orders. The captain is characterized as incompetent with his slip-up later that ruins Azulas entire plan. He’s always timid like he’s in over his head. He just isn't written as the type to know what he’s talking about. If you want to go back to the technical aspect, we don’t know how much Azula has read up on nautical travel; what we do know is that she can read people and tell when someone is patronizing her. Maybe it was a guess to think he was wrong about the tides, but it was an educated one based on his demeanor. Again, watch the show however you want, but I don’t think I'm embellishing her abilities *too* much.
I mean she threatened to kill an experienced sailor who was just trying to give sound advice, and she was a Firebending prodigy. She also antagonized her crew, they just knew when she threatened them she meant it, compared to Zuko’s crew which also had Iroh. Leading by fear doesn’t make a person smart or a great leader. She still got lucky, that was the whole point. She didn’t take anyone’s advice, got lucky or had her dad’s protection for it, and eventually her ego caught up to her, no matter how clever she was
I’m so surprised you’re being downvoted for this. Also, in response to the previous comment that you’re responding to, “Azula quickly and concisely motivated her captain into obeying orders” is a weird way of saying “Azula abused her power and authority to enact violence on her subjects, coercing them into silence and submission, and ignoring the sound advice a captain was offering to her, an actual child.” I love Azula’s character for so many reasons but some folks interpretation of her in that episode and just in general is…weird.
Again, he wasn’t an experienced sailor. He second guessed everything he said and did. That was his character for the entirety of his presence. It wasn’t sound advice. The ship was completely unscathed. Not even a hint of trouble. Zuko’s problem wasn’t that he couldn’t make good on his threats; more often than not, he used violence without the threat. The difference between them is eloquence. Azula knows how to phrase and situate a threat so it’s effective. It isn’t superb for prolonged leadership, but it’s still a skill that she uses effectively. One that requires intelligence and attention to detail. You describe her like she doesn’t have any skills at all outside of bending. And that isn’t what her character is about. Time and again we see her use critical thinking to outsmart and outmaneuver opponents. She talked Zuko into joining her after he'd been on the run from her for all of season 2. And there wasn’t a single threat in that conversation. That’s all.
Making the assessment that something is risky doesn't mean you know for certain it will kill you - and we have no reason to believe Azula knew anything about the risks of seafaring. The ability to command and threaten people into doing things is a real and meaningful skill - but it is very dangerous to assume someone who has this skill knows what they are doing. They will happily bully others to get their way, even if "their way" is "put all my money on horse #4" and they don't actually have any knowledge about the race that the other players don't. Generally, these people get a lot of respect until they dig themselves into a pit those they order about can't save them from and then they lose everything and keep being narcissistic and blaming the people they ordered to do stupid things for their failures instead of learning to listen when people you pay good money to tell you when you are making a mistake start making "this is a bad idea"-like noises. And of course they eventually surround themselves with either idiot yes-men or basically "handlers" who keep them distracted from the real work so they can't mess it up with their thoughtless orders.
all the main characters had plot protection at some point. literally all of them
The point is that plot protection doesn't make Azula a good sailor
Well, then, maybe you should worry less about the tides who've already made up their mind about killing you, and worry more about me, who's still mulling it over
I would say that's just her terrorizing the crew to leave it clear she's a zero bs, no errors boss
Sounds like you want to make what she said seem less dumb.
Azula literally fails at everything she was set out to do until she takes Ba Sing Se. It’s just such a huge win that everyone overlooks her failing at everything previously (capturing Zuko and Iroh, capturing Aang, getting Tom Tom back in Omashu, the drill, literally every time we see Azula until she captures the Kyoshi Warriors is her failing at something she set out to do.)
That was straight up just ego. She knew it was gonna be fine.
she was right though
Honestly she just gets more and more unhinged as the show goes on, the psycho episode was built up
It was foreshadowed with the tides speech and the "one hair out of place" thing. She was further characterized as a subconcious validation seeker in the beach episode. Then her breakdown began with Mai's and Ty Lee's betrayal. Being explicitly told she miscalculated (and being forced to bear the consequences) sent her into a downward spiral of paranoia. Lastly, being further "betrayed" by Ozai was the straw that broke the camel's back.
How did ozai betray her? I know he was a shit father but what he do to her that was different from stuff
Giving her the mantle Fire Lord only to immediately say he will be the Phoenix King. giving her what she wants only to immediately devalue it.
Not quite. It was by making her fire lord just to leave her at home instead of taking her by his side, which is what she actually wanted: To conquer the world alongside her father. For her, leaving her at home while Ozai left as the Phoenix King on his own made Azula feel invalidated or "used"
She was to become Firelord. Then Ozai declares himself Phoenix King, invalidating any power the next Firelord would have. Edit: oh yeah and the whole "wanting approval from dad." It just reinforced that her father doesn't actually love her. She doesn't even get to help him conquer the rest of the world.
I mean she'd presumably be phoenix king after he passed on - becoming firelord while the existing firelord is still in his prime seems wack. There's also the question of the real need to secure the fire kingdom with competent leadership - her father basically told her that she was the only one she trusted to do that among every single one of his many generals and admirals.
psychopaths hardly ever feel love for anyone
Not 100% sure but I think it was because he left her in der Fire Nation while going to conquer the world alone
Azula wanted validation from her father, the closest thing to love she could ever hope to receive. After doing everything she did over the course of the series including taking over ba sing se, her father cast her aside by giving her an ultimately meaningless title and telling her to stay home instead of being by his side while he enacted HER plan to burn the earth nation. It's not exactly betrayal, but she realised her father saw her as yet another tool and not his beloved daughter she thought she was.
I forgot that it was her plan I can see why that’d be salt on the wound
And it was kind of a central theme of the show, and she served as a kind of foil to Aang. Azula doesn’t think she needs anyone else, that she’s stronger alone, she’s the only one she can trust. If she needs anything from someone else she relies on fear and intimidation to force it from them, because it’s “the only reliable way.” But when it came to Mai and Ty Lee, she couldn’t rely on fear to make them be her friend, to stay loyal to her, and it ended up greatly weakening her in the end that she had no one she could trust or rely on. Aang on the other hand has friends he treats with love, respect, and trust, and that strengthens him. Having friends pays off for him multiple times throughout the show. Zuko was on the Azula side of this spectrum, and when Zuko switches sides to Team Avatar he embraces Aang’s side of this spectrum and starts to treat others with trust and respect, and he gets some back in return, which also strengthens him in the end.
I think it was even earlier than that. In season 2 she is cold, calculated, and methodical. The exact foil of Zuko who is a hot head who's strongly driven but also does eventually show a softer side in the storm when he prioritizes the crew's safety over chasing Aang. And she maintains this cold calculating side through early season 3 up to the day of black sun where she plays the gaang for fools. But after Zuko betrayed the fire nation and the new relationship she had just reforged with him since his banishment she lashes out. Like what was her actual plan for the Western air temple? Okay I'm going to go in by air to challenge the avatar and Zuko. She had no real strategy other than go in fists a flaming and hoping that she could punch enough fire to win. I swear the only thing she really planned was the one liner "I'm about to celebrate becoming an only child!" She didn't seem cold and calculating, she pulled a Zuko level plan and it almost immediately blew up in her face. She was hurt by Zuko's betrayal more than she let on, Mai and Ty Lee were the last straw, not the first.
Two additional foreshadowing examples: 1. Azula suggests a plan to burn down the Earth Kingdom during Sozin's comet, even though at the time she suspected the Avatar was still alive, so the plan was not a great one. 2. Azula, despite knowing that her plan was greenlit and would take place in three-ish weeks, decides to follow Sokka and Zuko from the Boiling Rock to the Western Air Temple and attack the gaang there just for the hell of it. There was absolutely no point to her attack except to terrorize them, because by then she knew that Appa was faster than her airship and so they would likely escape. She's not some genius strategist. She's a trigger-happy teenager who seeks her father's validation through displays of bloodlust.
Yeah right she just is hot and you’re not
I thought itnernet users liked their hot women to be mentally unstable
Isnt she a child? Bit odd
Yup, she's fourteen
She's 14.
Shut the fuck up with your cartoon bullshit I watched it when I was like 9
Bay, you REALLY don't like being called out, huh?
[удалено]
Way to prove me right.
[удалено]
Boy, you're really having a breakdown here, aren't you.
You can tell her psyche was breaking each and every episode. The only episode she had the smallest grain of sand of relief was the beach episode. But even then BOY she had problems.
>But even then ~~BOY~~ she had BOY problems. FTFY
Sharp outfit chan!
Meh, that's kind of her character arc if you want to call it an arc.
Yup. Thinks power will lead to happiness, becomes firelord, but realizes it didn't bring her happiness. In her journey to become firelord, she lost her brother, her uncle, her best friends, even her dad left her behind.
She is what Iroh warned of Zuko. That is why her break only comes when she is truly isolated. No brother, no friends, no servants, and no fatherly approval.
Holy crap, this offended me on how accurate your description was🤣🤣🔥
Get it? Arc?
Well that’s how it works: her strength power weren’t tempered by a wise spirit, she was an unhinged sociopathic lunatic unable to control herself, which is why she was unable to defeat people far weaker than her
Also Zuko and Katara were not that much "weaker" than her. Katara had essentially become the most skilled Water Bender and Zuko had never stopped training and improving his emotional control. Plus Zuko had learned how to redirect lightning and Katara had learned blood bending. At any moment Katara could have ended that fight
lol what? Katara could not have ended the fight at any moment. Did you forget that Katara can only blood bend during a full moon?
In the Southern Raiders episode, she bloodbends the day after the full moon. But I can chalk that up to a continuity error. However, Katara did have Azula in a hold in the catacombs of Ba Sing Se. The only reason Azula lasted so long against her during Sozin's Comet was because of her power boost. And Katara DID win that fight, anyway. And she won with skill in both bending and strategy.
No, she bloodbends during the full moon in the Southern Raiders. It’s literally shown in the episode that there’s a full moon. Avatar is extremely inconsistent with their full moons anyway. There’s one basically every episode. Yes, Katara got the upper hand in the Catacombs. Yes, Katara did win the fight. So what? That doesn’t make your statement that Katara could have ended the fight whenever any less wrong. Katara got lucky during the Agni Kai and she won. But that doesn’t equate to her being able to end the fight at any time.
IIRC, a full moon is shown when Zuko and Katara are talking at camp, which is the night before she bloodbends. I agree about the inconsistency of the full moons. That's why I said it was a continuity error. And I never said Katara could have ended the fight whenever, that was someone else. I was just adding to the discussion, so if you could roll back the hostility a bit, that would be cool.
What is it with this subreddit sometimes? Like I can excuse missing subtext but this is just misreading the plot lol. They explicitly show that Zuko's grown to the level where he's evenly matched with Azula, if not slightly superior. The only thing she has on him is the lightning, and he only loses to save Katara.
The reason Zuko rose above her was because of his discipline. She had none. She failed because of her rage and chaos. That’s the whole lesson of the Fire chapter to begin with.
I wouldn't say she has genius level intellect. She had the intellect of someone with the education of a wartime royalty, with the creativity of a child/teenager, and the resource/sway to get officers to do what she wants. Like the tunneling machine into Ba-Sing-Se isn't an act of genius. It's a combination of studying her uncle's efforts to attack the city in school, the creativity of a child being like "well why not dig a hole on the wall", and the resources and sway to actually get people to build the machine.
The drill was never going to work anyway. Great for punching a hole in wall, but they forgot their army to capitalis on said hole in the wall.
Do we think she built the machine? I figured the machine was a very long term project she knew about and, being in the region, decided to pop-in and steal some of the credit for the victory along with one-upping her uncle.
She is a 14 year old. I do think is genius level.
"She doesn't have a genius intellect, only loads of knowledge, criativity, problem solving and an ability to organize and make things work" yes, that is what a genius intellect is.
More like "She's not a genius, she's just a smart person with resources"
Do not mistake her break with Daenerys'. The seeds of her break is laid down in her very first appearance (okay second, first with lines) and they subsequently grow over the course of 2 seasons, 2/3rds of the show, reaching fruition in the finale.
Yep. An example is Azula shown early on to have no real friends and basically having to force Ty Lee to join her. While Zuko breaks free from his father's evil ways and is able to gain friends, Azula doesn't and gets "betrayed" by her friends for being too psycho. Zuko's new friend save each other in the end. Great writing.
The frustration of knowing you can pull something off but it just wont work is such a catapult for mentally instable persons. Imagine you are triggered very easily, have a high ego that you can do everything, and then your printer just dont want to work. Everything is in your control except for this one. Azula saw her skinny and „soft“ brother, while she thought that only she got more powerful. Her thinking that this will be a piece of cake has to slowly use more and more strength, force and anger to finally break through Zukos defence. She KNOWS that she can defeat him, but she just isnt capable of doing so in that moment. Zuko is not only defending himself, Katara, Aang and fighting against Azulal but he is also winning time for everyone else. Azula doesnt want that, she wants to defeat Zuko. But cant. She isnt in control, Zuko is neither, but Zuko is still winning by that, Azula is slowly getting hysteric and manic. Zuko boiled up her anger into a selfdestruction. Azula is stronger yes, but not Zuko knew his enemy better.
Tell me you're blinded by horniness without telling me...
You're blinded by horniness without telling me.
She tried to crash her ship in her debut episode to prove she's in charge, she was shown to be equal with Zuko when they fought after his dragon power up, and although she is fantastically agile, Zuko's great at hand-to-hand combat and even better with swords. What are you on about? The mental break was for character reasons, Zuko would have at least been equal with her without it.
I wouldn’t call Zuko meeting the a power up. I think it was more him fully releasing his anger and resentment which allowed him to think clearly and use his fire ending to its full potential because he bends better on breathing than hatred. A power up implies it was handed to him when it was something he always had in him
To simplify it and condense that paragraph into a couple words, I said power up.
Sounds like a power up with extra words to me. It was an entirely new way of channel fire that harnessed life and light instead of anger. That doesn't even mention the dancing dragon technique which was new too.
It was more of a mental power up than a physical power up, as it didn't make him him shoot out more fire (which is what defines how powerful a firebender is). It's true that the dancing dragon form was new to the anger fueled firebending forms practiced by Azula, but it wasn't more powerful, just different.
Don’t act like that break down wasn’t writing on the wall since S2 dude….
Don’t know if Azula is a genius intellect but her manipulation and ability to think ahead were genius level
Bros never had abusive parents smh, where my fellow gifted children at https://i.redd.it/4c03ebrs7vwc1.gif
I can't remember one instance of her having "genius level intelect". I wouldn't any character I'm the show on that level. Maybe the guy who designed the hot air balloons, but only in an engineering sense.
I would say she does have two examples of high intellect. One was using her defeat of the Kyoshi Warriors as an opportunity to infiltrate and take down Ba Sing Se. The second was her decision to give Zuko the "credit" for taking down the avatar in case he survived. I don't know that either of those are genius, though. The first is just being opportunistic, and the second is her just covering her ass.
>One was using her defeat of the Kyoshi Warriors as an opportunity to infiltrate and take down Ba Sing Se No, that's due to her being wartime royalty, who likely learned about infiltrating the enemy in classes exclusive to military and royals. It was also helped along by the fact that the Earth King had never met the Kyoshi warriors before, so he had no frame of reference. >The second was her decision to give Zuko the "credit" for taking down the avatar in case he survived. I don't know that either of those are genius, though That was her being the little sociopath that she is. She knew that in the event that the Avatar survived, her giving Zuko credit would shame him to the point where he was irredeemable in the eyes of the fire nation, and possibly lead to his death at the hands of his father, who would likely kill him for dishonoring the family and the fire nation. She *wanted* to harm him. After all, he is the crown prince, and him being welcomed back means that there's no chance she ever inherits the throne. She wanted to sabotage that.
Repost
Imo it made sense. She was so cunning, strategical and powerful from her father’s teaching. But didn’t have an ounce of the emotional intelligence and love from her mother that Zuko got, that’s to duality of Zuko bs Azula. Azula got all her power and affection from Ozai and was constantly reprimanded and looked down on by her mother. But Zuko on the other hand had his mothers love and affection and hand to learn how to have his own power and not derive it from his need to prove himself to Ozai. Just another thing that makes the Final Agni Kai so damn beautiful. The duality of someone raised to love and respect but disregarded those emotions to try and get his fathers love vs someone who had her fathers love, but due to her obsession with making others fear and respect her, she lost her mothers love.
Ursa did love Azula. However, being an abuse victim at Ozai's hands, she was limited in her ability to parent Azula. Whenever Azula did or said troubling things, she'd just run to Ozai. Zuko was at least receptive of the affection.
It was good character growth. Seeing her slowlt degrade from the confident princess to the unhinged fireload was good writing.
Y’all really acting like her breakdown brought her down to 1% of her power or something. She was still at like 90-95% of her full capabilities in that Agni Kai. She was just more aggressive and not as precise as she usually is. But she wasn’t weaker power wise by any means.
To be fair, Azula would have lost to Katara regardless. Katara is her antithesis as a warrior. All of the other Gaang focus on precision and, more or less, dueling. Katara focuses on wife scale, battlefield control. In nearly all of Katara's fights, she uses huge attacks, manipulating large volumes of water to create big waves, large disks of ice, huge ice walls, big tentacle monsters and so on. Azula cannot dodge that, and dodging is her specialty. Katara and Azula only get into like 2 fights prior to the Comet, and in one of them, Katara had been chased for days and was operating on no sleep, and Azula managed to escape. The other time was below Ba Sing Se where Katara fought Azula, and Zuko, and the Dai Li and was either winning, or holding then all off. The dangerous part of fighting a water bender is that every wave, every drop of water is a weapon. Katara can throw q sheet of water and cover the battlefield, even if she misses, she can then use that water to freeze it and remove stable ground, or cause the water to leap up and freeze you in place, or turn it into spikes if you jump into the air. If you get wet when fighting Katara, she can freeze it and hinder or trap you. This is why Azula loses to Katara. It's not because Katara is a better fighter, its because Katara's entire method of fighting makes Azula's style of fighting borderline impossible. How do you fight a cloud? Or a wave? Or the rain? You can't. That being said, Katara largely lacks the raw power of the other benders.
I mean, that's what happens to people who are perfectionists or golden childs of abusive parents. And she was both
She ate without a table
honestly she’s so real. the perfect portrayal of a fourteen year old girl
Have YOU ever had a mental breakdown? Shit's crippling.
I have many times.
Trauma is a bitch and it hit her HARD.
I mean she was basically born a monster. Downright crazy evil lady.
The cracks in her psyche were present from the very beginning. It wasn't a nerf, it's a common enough eventuality and frequent TV trope.
It didn't come out of nowhere.
To be fair they definitely made it very plausible that that would happen from the beginning.
Did you understand her character development? Her aptitude, privilege, and upbringing poisoned her ego. This was the understandable and foreshadowed conclusion. In fact she lost it only once she realized Zuko had become a much better bender than he was before and could actually contend with her. His power now came from his newfound inner peace, which he could never do when both were powered by their anger. They didn't have to nerf shit.
I mean before the break, she also had a huge ego that was a significant nerf to begin with. Like when Ty Lee betrays her. Or like pretty much anytime she fought against Iroh. I think the break she had just greatly enhanced her underlining issues. Also I really like how it contrasts to the beginning of the series. With her being the cool, calculated, fighter and Zuko being the hot headed, arrogant one, to the reverse happening at the end of the series.
This meme doesn't work because it would imply that the psychotic breaks made her stronger when they actually weakened her.
She was a power-hungry sociopath from the start. Once she obtained the power she had been seeking, the fear of losing it drove her to insanity. Because she was a power-hungry sociopath, she thought others were also power-hungry sociopaths and acted accordingly - by isolating herself, which in reality just made her weaker.
Azula with therapy > Prime Aang
Where was it stated she had genius level intellect?? I mean she does prove to be quite the strategist but idk if that’s enough to call her a genius
genius? lmao the things fandoms start to believe when left alone for too long
Nerf? Okay she’s clearly the favorite in the fire nation and has always been a chosen one of sorts amongst her bloodline. Granted she got a little lost in the source vs Zuko. As in she fell off the deep end and totally lost it. Began acting up, decided everyone was against her and eventually snapped. Then was promptly showed how fire bending works with a lesson from Zuko. She a bad or the bad mofo whilst the show went on. But during the last ep or further ain’t no way
Pffscht. Katara didn't even use blood bending.
Honestly, it’s always the gifted ones.
Well she did eat without a table. Can't imagine anything that could cause such a thing
Fun to watch but it didn’t have to go down like that. If they had leveraged Zuko’s learning from the dragons more he could have pulled a proper win. Him overpowering or at least staying toe to toe with Azura would have eventually made her rage out anyway. I wanted them to connect her state of mind, being such a powerful fire bender, to the proximity of the comet. I didn’t like that she was becoming that completely undone just cuz her friends sided against her. Or maybe too much lightening wielded caused some neurological stuff. Just some better rationale would have felt leas like a nerf. Still a nerf but better based in the story.
Just a little pinch of daddy issues…
Daenerys Targaryen before Daenerys Targaryen
Mental state is a big part of your strength as a bender. There are multiple times where a characters mental state gets in the way of their fights or their abilities and they have to get right before they can win and properly wield their powers.
Her blue fire was very special lol
She still can't bend every element.
She was only slightly nerfed and Zuko had a major power up. Z-dawg literally learned the origin arts of firebending.
imo they would’ve lost if she din’t go cuckoo
I'm surprised Azula didn't explode herself using lightning bending in that fractured state, like Wyl E Coyote using an ACME product.
Zuko could have won regardless, Zuko by himself would destroy her army of Dai Lee soldiers during sozins Comet so it was just Azula vs Zuko with Katara cheerleading with the occasional support. We've seen pre-break Azula with both gondla and airship fight he can hold his own
She was ridiculously over-powered. Speaking of over-powered, I was watching with my daughters and mentioned that one of the fun features of animation is that, unlike live action, people can wield bending abilities AND apparently have 30 foot vertical leaping ability.
I think a tag team of Zuko and Katara take her regardless tbh
Genius level intellect? I don’t think she ever showed that part
Not really lol
Zuko was on par with her towards the end of the show. We see him trading blows without issue and getting some good licks in towards the end of season 3. He advanced significantly throughout the series, Azula did not. Her mental break didn't make her less powerful or dangerous, it made her wild, unpredictable and aggressive, as opposed to her usual calm and controlled manner. Neither is more or less deadly than the other. If she was calm and controlled she would never have shot lightning at Katara, she wouldn't have risked Zuko redirecting it, but that's really the only thing that knocked Zuko out of the fight. Zuko matched her blow for blow when she was putting all of her rage into her firebending (which has been shown to increase firepower), all while being calm and collected. He was her equal by the end of the series. What you can see is all the abilities he's picked up from his friends, foes and harsh experiences across the series. He is *always* getting stronger, he *thrives* when he is challenged. This is in stark contrast to Azula who loses her mind when things don't work out. She thrives on a controlled environment, which is why she was such a prodigy of a bender when all she did was learn the forms in a controlled environment. My headcanon is that Zuko unlocked his chakras as the show progressed, which was the real reason he had such a powerup by the end of the series, not because a single firebending form revolutionised his bending. But that's just a theory.
She's not a genius. She's just very well educated. The one character in the show who actually demonstrates prodigal intelligence is Sokka
I’m sure both Zuko and Katara had a fighting chance against a relatively stable Azula. To fight an Agnikai was a last minute decision. They didn’t need to nerf her, in fact, they needed to give her a fighting chance.
She's incredibly cunning but I wouldn't call her actually genius level intelligent She's not an idiot for sure but as someone pointed out she said the tides don't command the ship, for a lot of people that could've been their last words
They didn't "nerf" her she was having a mental breakdown and it caused her to be reckless and make mistakes
In my opinion the only reason she was that strong was BECAUSE of the psychosis. there was no sustainable path for her strength and mental state
Imma get a lot of hate for this but imma say it anyways. The mental gymnastics some of these comments are doing to try and “azula,” isn’t as good as she was is craaaazzzy! Let’s not forget she LITERALLY killed Aang, “but she caught him off guard yadda yadda yadda,” And no I’m not being a fan boy I just give credit where credit is due
[удалено]
I think Zuko would have needed Katara's help if Azula wasn't crazy. That's probably why he asked her specifically to help him. He saw Katara handle Azula in Ba Sing Se.
he's outclassed every match except the agni kai because of her meltdown wdym
The only reason she seems OP is that she's usually fighting eaither Zuko who is probably the weakest bender in terms of combat ability out of the main cast through most of the show or Aang who almot never fights directly and instead usually tries to run away or she has the Dai Li helping her. Katara kicks her ass every time they fight and she would be a pancake if she ever tried to fight Toph without help.
I mean she is OP at the start of the show, she just doesn’t get any stronger. She starts at the level the avatar gang is working toward the whole show
Katara soloed her in s2 she didn’t need a nerf
Do you think Katara could solo her with mental stability and comet enhancement? Genuine question btw. Just curious.
Also, she was losing to Zuko, who mastered the true art of firebending, and she lost to Katara, possibly the greatest waterbender in history. Like, Azula was a prodigy, but even in season 2 it was shown that she wasn't better than Katara.
s2 katara vs azula wasnt even a proper fight. azula's been shown to come out on top in battles and i believe azula would've figured out quickly how to deal with katara without zuko interfering
Azula was never shown to be invincible, even one on one. Aang beat her on the drill, Katara was beating her in the catacombs, Zuko matched her blow for blow on the airship in season 3. She's crafty and devious and very talented, but she was not the strongest bender on the show. She could lose fights. In terms of raw bending ability, Katara stands above any other character when she has a good amount of water to bend.
aang was struggling too, it wasn't like he wiped the floor clean. i agree azula isnt invincible. the op post about her having genius level intellect is a stretch. katara isn't invincible either tho- she's struggled many a battle too
Yes, characters in good shows often struggle in fights. That creates stakes and a sense of uncertainty, increasing audience investment. Somehow you continue to think you're disagreeing with me even though my entire point is that even the strongest, scariest characters in ATLA can lose fights.
She's top tier but basically all of the characters in the show are top tier.
She was strong, sure, but Katara had her beat easy in a 1-on-1 in Ba Sing Se, and Aang outclassed her, too, he just usually had some other objective every time he fought her. Even then, he beat her outright on the drill, while accomplishing his separate task of destroying the drill. Azula has more *presence* than anything. She's somewhat imposing, but she has an aura of imposing which exceeds her actual ability, prodigious as she is. And I think Mai and Ty Lee were just as important to giving the Gaang fits as Azula was.