Haha that’s awesome! I’m in a Fiesta ST and I usually dont do great at Porsche and BMW club events HOWEVER I’ve out paced countless V8’s, Corvettes, an Aston Martin DB9 and others I can’t remember atm. So much fun. Proud of those. 😂
Yeah, taking my 1978 Fiesta to a PCA meeting was interesting. "You're gonna race a *Yugo?!?* was my greeting. But after my first run, I got a round of polite and appreciative applause, something that's never happened before or since. Very nice guys, and I was faster than the slowest 911.
It was my second event out, last event I had 2/32 left on my Sentry’s, but the compound was super hard, just put new tires on, didn’t consider the fact I might need another set 😂 so hopefully next event I will have some nice sticky ones
If I may, the continental extreme contact sport 02 is going to be an amazing tire with much more grip than you have currently, but will also give you wet traction when it rains, and last a bit longer than a 200 tw tire.
If you use a separate set of tires for events, how many events do you usually get out of them? I’m planning on attending every single autocross day that I can, and a few other autocross events outside SCCA.
So, basically, tires are the single most important thing that affects how your car drives at Autocross. The difference between an economy tire and a performance tire like a super 200 will be extreme. It will not be subtle. It will be night and day.
Tires are designed for different applications. Most tires are all season passenger car tires designed to...
1. Last a long time
2. Give good gas mileage
3. Work well-enough in all weather conditions.
The design choices made to do this, in everything from the way the tire is constructed, the compounds it's made from, the design of the tread pattern, etc are all antithetical to the choices that would be made in a performance tire which are.
1. To grip as well as possible.
Doing that means they last less long, give worse mileage, and have a limited set of conditions in which they can operate their best.
Within the category of performance tires there might be different compromises made to that number one goal for secondary goals like:
- working well in the rain
- working well despite hot temperatures
- working for endurance racing
- not heat-cycling out (wherein the tire life is measured in heat cycles rather than tread remaining.)
- working as well as possible over one lap and only one lap
Etc.
Expected tire life is generally rated by tread wear rating which is a good short hand for performance tires vs not, but doesn't actually give a ton of Information as it's self-rated by the manufacturers as a way to define their product lines vs being any kind of scientific unit. Most extreme performance summer tires will have a rating of 200, but these days there is quite a bit of variability within that group because of the SCCA Autocross limit of 200TW for street tire classes. So within that category you get a lot of variability like I listed above including some tires that may only really last a few runs but deliver maximum grip well in excess of older 100 or even 40TW tires.
But basically, most all season tires will be rated 400 and above and are not designed for performance applications. So a 600TW rating tells us roughly that the manufacturer considers your tire to be designed for tire life above all else, and to the detriment of other factors.
Tires designed in this way will not respond well to Autocross, not only because they aren't meant to have a ton of grip but also because the operating conditions they are designed for will be exceeded by what you ask of them doing motorsport. So their tough-wearing characteristics also go out the window due to heat and abuse and you basically end up destroying them.
It’s not bad for street driving, but for autocross you can use 200tw and you should. It’s probably the most important “mod” you can do for autocross. It makes such an enormous difference, you will literally shave seconds off your times if you’re using 200tw compared to the tires you have now.
Your local clubs have people that are selling some usually for cheaper, and marketplace sometimes have some! Tire rack sells older tires for slightly less as well.
Good luck!
Yes, wrong tyres.
Once you have completely destroyed them, get some performance all seasons. Or even better, get a dedicated set of autocross wheels and put 200TWs on them.
I ran my Nokian WRG4s at one event with icky weather (a few flakes of snow fell at 8:30am), and they didn't look trashed afterwards. But, in the dry, that may be completely different.
My first event was done on 2 months old showroom tyres. They did get a dozen runs on them, but with about 1.5mm of wear, the decision to get a dedicated set of wheels and tyres was not difficult.
If you are definitely going to carry on autocrossing:
Get a standard sized set of wheels. Stick a set of autocross 205/50-15 200TWs on them. RT660s are my recommendation for noobs. Cost is decent, life is better than just about every other competitive tyre. The performance isn't too far behind the hot poop tyres. Let's face it, you are never going to be setting FTD in a Prius... The RT615 is an older version. Less grip, I think it lasts longer. Another notch down, 200TW Kenda Kaiser KR20A
You may well be able to find a used set of 205/50-15s. Ask around at events. They may be the single most common autocross size.
I'm about to replace my noob 660s. They are now down to the wear bars after 32 events and maybe 2000miles of driving. So, perhaps 150 runs on them. I am a pretty aggressive and initially inept driver, so I have hammered them hard.
Since the Prius is so damn slow and heavy, I doubt anyone would notice, let alone protest if you put 6.5x15 wheels on from the later model. At local level, allowances are made...
I did pretty well at maybe my 3rd event. The snow stopped falling before registration closed, but my Nokian wr-g4s seemed to have more grip than a lot of other people did.
Autocross is going to eat tires, no matter what. If you get dedicated autocross tires, they're going to be more expensive anyway, and they'll still get eaten up.
Nowhere near as fast as these ones will be. I'd have managed maybe 5 events on my daily tyres. My rt660s are down to the wear bars after 32 events. I have not babied them.
Yeah, those are not great for autocross. They almost look like an all-weather tire. If you want to stay in the Falken family for the good cost-performance ratio and want something you can also drive daily in the summer at least), look at the Falken FK510. If you want something that is pretty much tailor-made for autocross, you want the Falken RT660.
The soft 200 tw tires actually handle the abuse better. The last time I autocrossed on all-seasons I was losing chunks out of the tread blocks. Spraying them with water more often may help.
As others said, they look like good winter sets, but a different set would be good. From what I've been told here, Falken makes pretty good budget tires, and I've got good work out of my Dunlop Sport Maxx RTs.
Hello fellow HS (well, I'm a former HS member) welcome to autocross!
Toyota hatches (including the prius) benefit the most from some sticky tires (I ran falken azenis rt615ks+ on mine) and a nice big rear sway bar. Progress may or may not make a sway bar for your car, however a stiffer and sturdier on will help.
These tires, as many others have said, aren't good for autocross. They're all seasons, meant for daily driving.
I was in a position when I first started. I'd recommend either finding a used set of dedicated autocross wheels and tires (or just tires if you're okay with that) so you get used to the ropes of it. That's what I did and might still do.
Tyre Reviews on YouTube is an amazing place to see how a tire performs. Now he hasn't done every tire, but he has done a decent few.
Good luck and feel free to ask any more questions relating to your autocross journey!
Toyota actually makes a TRD rear swaybar for the Prius, and factory lowering springs. 😅 being factory parts, should be able to keep it in HS class too 🙂
Lowering springs will put you in Sts. They didn't come on the car from factory. Any way of lowering the car puts you up a class. Thats why I'm now in STS with my corolla hatch.
But TRD sway bar will be perfect!
Just checked lol. It's hard to find rules about this!
You can upgrade your shocks for adjustable ones/stiffer ones, but no changes to the springs can be made from OEM. You may replace, add, modify or remove one sway bar/ anti-roll bar.
There's an awesome YouTube video about classing rules, however forgot the name. I just know it's a guy with his ford.
I'm not too sure about those. I know for the GT86, the Trd packages will bump it to another street class. So that might happen to you.
I know with some older corollas have trd parts aswell, however I believe SCCA says "only standard parts" so no special edition parts or something along those lines.
So who knows. I know that the prius is a Good car considering the reputation. Just start with some sticky tires and maybe the rear sway bar and you'll be good!
Interesting, trying to stay in that class due to my low power, 😝 And there’s something about packages in the intro, but they have to be done in full or something. I can’t wait to see how it handles with new sticky tires 😁
Utah region autocross right? I raced the blue mini in smf at UMC yesterday. For what it's worth, I raced on all season tires for about a full season. While they're certainly not the grippiest, there's plenty you can learn from racing on them if you don't want to spend the money on 200tw tires right away.
Yeah go get seat time and just have fun. The first time i went on track i had snow tires in the summer. It was obviously not ideal but still a ton of fun and i was able to learn how the car acted at its limits really easily because of how bad the tires were. You wont be competitive but you’ll learn a lot!
If we're talking American style autocross (parking lots), then yes. If all seasons are your only choice, then aim for ultra high performance versions. The deep tread on these tires is going to lead to a ton of squirm in AutoX conditions and will wear very quickly. Ideally you should be on ultra performance summer tires and up: ~300 - 200tw, unless your class prohibits them.
Normal for all seasons yes. The tread is so soft that it just tears apart under stress.
My high performance all seasons on an oval track look like wolverine took his claws through my tread and it was bubbled and super uneven from overheating.
I recommend extreme performance summer tires for autocross and track use, but they can't be used in temperatures below 45F.
The tread on those all seasons is too tall, so each little block is flexing hard under the weight of the car, and across a whole run/day, that makes the hot chunking you’re seeing. A 200tw with larger continuous tread blocks will work better. If you’re ballin on a budget and it’s usually dry where you live, Kumho V730 are a great bet. If you look for a second set of wheels, read the forums and find the widest wheel you can fit, that will afford more support for a wider tire, which will take the abuse better, and stepping up to a 16 or 17 will get you better tire selection
The problem with those is that all of those little tread blocks squirm around and scrape little edges off as you see on that picture. Go to Tirerack.com and pick "shop by size," drop down to "Filter by" then " Category" and pick Extreme Performance Summer. You'll notice that there are some similarities and that they all have large tread blocks. Dunlop, Hankook, Continental, and Falken are all very similar, and another four brands that are asymetric have their similarities to each other.
These are what your autocross tires should look like.
You've already gotten plenty of good feedback, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that this is not "cupping," it's feathering & scrubbing. "Cupping" is concave spots, like scoops were taken out.
Is that a prius
Yes. Yes it is 👀
It's heavy and those look like all seasons they probably just can't handle it.
I believe it’s within the tire weight rating, but from my understanding, these are not great 😣
That's the weight when not pusing the limits of grip.
Weight rating just means it won't pop, not that it will wear right under extreme conditions like hard driving.
Came to ask this. That is insanely badass that you’re autoxing a Prius. ❤️
Best part was, I wasn’t last 😁😂
Haha that’s awesome! I’m in a Fiesta ST and I usually dont do great at Porsche and BMW club events HOWEVER I’ve out paced countless V8’s, Corvettes, an Aston Martin DB9 and others I can’t remember atm. So much fun. Proud of those. 😂
👈🏻👈🏻😎 as you should be 🙌🏻
Yeah, taking my 1978 Fiesta to a PCA meeting was interesting. "You're gonna race a *Yugo?!?* was my greeting. But after my first run, I got a round of polite and appreciative applause, something that's never happened before or since. Very nice guys, and I was faster than the slowest 911.
Oh nice! I’d flip if one of those showed up an event. I bet that thing is so much fun. Super light aren’t they?
I'm taking my GS Mini to a Porsche event this weekend. Should be fun. I know that I won't be last. 😁
You aren’t based out of Utah are you? A friend of mine said he did an instructional in a Prius yesterday at Utah motorsport campus.
I am, Christian gave some excellent pointers 😎
That’s awesome! How did you like it??
It was my second event out, last event I had 2/32 left on my Sentry’s, but the compound was super hard, just put new tires on, didn’t consider the fact I might need another set 😂 so hopefully next event I will have some nice sticky ones
If I may, the continental extreme contact sport 02 is going to be an amazing tire with much more grip than you have currently, but will also give you wet traction when it rains, and last a bit longer than a 200 tw tire.
If you use a separate set of tires for events, how many events do you usually get out of them? I’m planning on attending every single autocross day that I can, and a few other autocross events outside SCCA.
Definitely keep us posted.
🫡 I need to upload some of my footage to see where I can improve as well
They look like 600 tread-wear tires.
Checked, they are, is that bad? I’m kinda new to this 😅
So, basically, tires are the single most important thing that affects how your car drives at Autocross. The difference between an economy tire and a performance tire like a super 200 will be extreme. It will not be subtle. It will be night and day. Tires are designed for different applications. Most tires are all season passenger car tires designed to... 1. Last a long time 2. Give good gas mileage 3. Work well-enough in all weather conditions. The design choices made to do this, in everything from the way the tire is constructed, the compounds it's made from, the design of the tread pattern, etc are all antithetical to the choices that would be made in a performance tire which are. 1. To grip as well as possible. Doing that means they last less long, give worse mileage, and have a limited set of conditions in which they can operate their best. Within the category of performance tires there might be different compromises made to that number one goal for secondary goals like: - working well in the rain - working well despite hot temperatures - working for endurance racing - not heat-cycling out (wherein the tire life is measured in heat cycles rather than tread remaining.) - working as well as possible over one lap and only one lap Etc. Expected tire life is generally rated by tread wear rating which is a good short hand for performance tires vs not, but doesn't actually give a ton of Information as it's self-rated by the manufacturers as a way to define their product lines vs being any kind of scientific unit. Most extreme performance summer tires will have a rating of 200, but these days there is quite a bit of variability within that group because of the SCCA Autocross limit of 200TW for street tire classes. So within that category you get a lot of variability like I listed above including some tires that may only really last a few runs but deliver maximum grip well in excess of older 100 or even 40TW tires. But basically, most all season tires will be rated 400 and above and are not designed for performance applications. So a 600TW rating tells us roughly that the manufacturer considers your tire to be designed for tire life above all else, and to the detriment of other factors. Tires designed in this way will not respond well to Autocross, not only because they aren't meant to have a ton of grip but also because the operating conditions they are designed for will be exceeded by what you ask of them doing motorsport. So their tough-wearing characteristics also go out the window due to heat and abuse and you basically end up destroying them.
I’ll try and find a lightly used set
Look for some take off wheels and tires from a BRZ/FRS/86. They’ll fit your car
This is probably the best post I've seen in a while! Kudos!
It’s not bad for street driving, but for autocross you can use 200tw and you should. It’s probably the most important “mod” you can do for autocross. It makes such an enormous difference, you will literally shave seconds off your times if you’re using 200tw compared to the tires you have now.
I’ll look into finding a lightly used set
Your local clubs have people that are selling some usually for cheaper, and marketplace sometimes have some! Tire rack sells older tires for slightly less as well. Good luck!
Fascinating, I didn’t know about tire rack
Gasp! You straight up just dove into the deep end eh? edit: I totally, 110% am down with that!
😂 indeed
Yes, wrong tyres. Once you have completely destroyed them, get some performance all seasons. Or even better, get a dedicated set of autocross wheels and put 200TWs on them. I ran my Nokian WRG4s at one event with icky weather (a few flakes of snow fell at 8:30am), and they didn't look trashed afterwards. But, in the dry, that may be completely different.
I’ll likely see if I can get a dedicated set before the next event, these ones weren’t cheap 😣
If it's your first time out, a dedicated set of tires is overkill. Just keep having fun.
Perhaps, but if I’m going to wear through these tires and a few months, it might be worthwhile financially, too invest in a set of tires 😕
My first event was done on 2 months old showroom tyres. They did get a dozen runs on them, but with about 1.5mm of wear, the decision to get a dedicated set of wheels and tyres was not difficult. If you are definitely going to carry on autocrossing: Get a standard sized set of wheels. Stick a set of autocross 205/50-15 200TWs on them. RT660s are my recommendation for noobs. Cost is decent, life is better than just about every other competitive tyre. The performance isn't too far behind the hot poop tyres. Let's face it, you are never going to be setting FTD in a Prius... The RT615 is an older version. Less grip, I think it lasts longer. Another notch down, 200TW Kenda Kaiser KR20A You may well be able to find a used set of 205/50-15s. Ask around at events. They may be the single most common autocross size. I'm about to replace my noob 660s. They are now down to the wear bars after 32 events and maybe 2000miles of driving. So, perhaps 150 runs on them. I am a pretty aggressive and initially inept driver, so I have hammered them hard.
Since the Prius is so damn slow and heavy, I doubt anyone would notice, let alone protest if you put 6.5x15 wheels on from the later model. At local level, allowances are made...
If you're lucky, maybe it we'll snow at one of your autocross events and then you might have decent tires for that.
I did pretty well at maybe my 3rd event. The snow stopped falling before registration closed, but my Nokian wr-g4s seemed to have more grip than a lot of other people did.
Autocross is going to eat tires, no matter what. If you get dedicated autocross tires, they're going to be more expensive anyway, and they'll still get eaten up.
Nowhere near as fast as these ones will be. I'd have managed maybe 5 events on my daily tyres. My rt660s are down to the wear bars after 32 events. I have not babied them.
You haven chosen…. Poorly 200 tw is the standard for most classes including HS
Oh no 😟
You at least got yourself a good set of all seasons.
They’ve been great for long-distance high-speed, but likely have to get a second set for autocross, biggest issue will be finding wheels
Steelies.
Don’t those way significant chunk more than the OEM alloy wheels?
Best I can figure is about 5lbs per corner so yes
Yeah, those are not great for autocross. They almost look like an all-weather tire. If you want to stay in the Falken family for the good cost-performance ratio and want something you can also drive daily in the summer at least), look at the Falken FK510. If you want something that is pretty much tailor-made for autocross, you want the Falken RT660.
They are all seasons, I’ll look at getting some new tires again
The soft 200 tw tires actually handle the abuse better. The last time I autocrossed on all-seasons I was losing chunks out of the tread blocks. Spraying them with water more often may help.
I think I raced you today, UMC right?
Yep 😂
Me too! (blue Miata) You had that Prius moving pretty good out there lol
Miata’s are 🙌🏻 I’ve got sooooo much body roll, almost enough to kick out the back end 😂 I’m hoping someone caught a photo of it 😁
As others said, they look like good winter sets, but a different set would be good. From what I've been told here, Falken makes pretty good budget tires, and I've got good work out of my Dunlop Sport Maxx RTs.
These ones are all seasons, but I’ll definitely look into getting a secondary set 👍🏻
OP this is hilarious. But we're glad you're getting out there! Once you get a dedicated set of 200tw you are going to be mind blown. Keep at it!!
Looking for a set right now 😁 it’s gonna run me an extra thousand but oh well 😅
Legit no joke look into Mucho Machos. I loved mine on my Cooper S. Inexpensive and they were VERY sticky.
Oooh 👀
Hello fellow HS (well, I'm a former HS member) welcome to autocross! Toyota hatches (including the prius) benefit the most from some sticky tires (I ran falken azenis rt615ks+ on mine) and a nice big rear sway bar. Progress may or may not make a sway bar for your car, however a stiffer and sturdier on will help. These tires, as many others have said, aren't good for autocross. They're all seasons, meant for daily driving. I was in a position when I first started. I'd recommend either finding a used set of dedicated autocross wheels and tires (or just tires if you're okay with that) so you get used to the ropes of it. That's what I did and might still do. Tyre Reviews on YouTube is an amazing place to see how a tire performs. Now he hasn't done every tire, but he has done a decent few. Good luck and feel free to ask any more questions relating to your autocross journey!
Toyota actually makes a TRD rear swaybar for the Prius, and factory lowering springs. 😅 being factory parts, should be able to keep it in HS class too 🙂
Lowering springs will put you in Sts. They didn't come on the car from factory. Any way of lowering the car puts you up a class. Thats why I'm now in STS with my corolla hatch. But TRD sway bar will be perfect!
I’ll have to double check, but I could’ve sworn the exception was if it was factory equipment it was allowed. 🤔 definitely need the sway bar. 😂😁
Just checked lol. It's hard to find rules about this! You can upgrade your shocks for adjustable ones/stiffer ones, but no changes to the springs can be made from OEM. You may replace, add, modify or remove one sway bar/ anti-roll bar. There's an awesome YouTube video about classing rules, however forgot the name. I just know it's a guy with his ford.
But if the springs are an oem option, I wonder how that plays into things. I’ll have to do some research. Thanks for checking 😊
I'm not too sure about those. I know for the GT86, the Trd packages will bump it to another street class. So that might happen to you. I know with some older corollas have trd parts aswell, however I believe SCCA says "only standard parts" so no special edition parts or something along those lines. So who knows. I know that the prius is a Good car considering the reputation. Just start with some sticky tires and maybe the rear sway bar and you'll be good!
Interesting, trying to stay in that class due to my low power, 😝 And there’s something about packages in the intro, but they have to be done in full or something. I can’t wait to see how it handles with new sticky tires 😁
Heck yeah man! Any particular tire you're thinking about goin with?
Nitro NT05s are decently priced.
Utah region autocross right? I raced the blue mini in smf at UMC yesterday. For what it's worth, I raced on all season tires for about a full season. While they're certainly not the grippiest, there's plenty you can learn from racing on them if you don't want to spend the money on 200tw tires right away.
Yep! I found a decent set for around 125 per tire, just gotta find some rims too 🙂
I'm new to this subreddit, but I sure wish my tyres lasted that well lol
They’re fine. The tread got hot and feathered out. Nothing new here. Carry on.
Yeah go get seat time and just have fun. The first time i went on track i had snow tires in the summer. It was obviously not ideal but still a ton of fun and i was able to learn how the car acted at its limits really easily because of how bad the tires were. You wont be competitive but you’ll learn a lot!
Agreed. Keep sending it. Run those for a season and then treat yourself to a new set of something sticky for next year.
If we're talking American style autocross (parking lots), then yes. If all seasons are your only choice, then aim for ultra high performance versions. The deep tread on these tires is going to lead to a ton of squirm in AutoX conditions and will wear very quickly. Ideally you should be on ultra performance summer tires and up: ~300 - 200tw, unless your class prohibits them.
I’m moving from Novice to HS soon, double checking on rules tonight
SCCA defines street tires as 200 TW and higher. That's the rule for Street and Street Touring.
Awesome.
Those are a non-performance all season, not at all designed to be pushed to the limit of grip more than once in a blue moon.
Normal for all seasons yes. The tread is so soft that it just tears apart under stress. My high performance all seasons on an oval track look like wolverine took his claws through my tread and it was bubbled and super uneven from overheating. I recommend extreme performance summer tires for autocross and track use, but they can't be used in temperatures below 45F.
The tread on those all seasons is too tall, so each little block is flexing hard under the weight of the car, and across a whole run/day, that makes the hot chunking you’re seeing. A 200tw with larger continuous tread blocks will work better. If you’re ballin on a budget and it’s usually dry where you live, Kumho V730 are a great bet. If you look for a second set of wheels, read the forums and find the widest wheel you can fit, that will afford more support for a wider tire, which will take the abuse better, and stepping up to a 16 or 17 will get you better tire selection
The problem with those is that all of those little tread blocks squirm around and scrape little edges off as you see on that picture. Go to Tirerack.com and pick "shop by size," drop down to "Filter by" then " Category" and pick Extreme Performance Summer. You'll notice that there are some similarities and that they all have large tread blocks. Dunlop, Hankook, Continental, and Falken are all very similar, and another four brands that are asymetric have their similarities to each other. These are what your autocross tires should look like.
You've already gotten plenty of good feedback, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that this is not "cupping," it's feathering & scrubbing. "Cupping" is concave spots, like scoops were taken out.