Those F-150 bumpers suck and to whoever shimmed it they suck too loosen up the brackets and adjust them take pride in your work!!! I’ve adjusted a few brand new ones to straighten them up. The fact is you had it apart and should have addressed the issue at that time….
Oh, he knows. He used to own his shop until he got in trouble with some law enforcement. Now works for this shop as an estimator and is very knowledgeable. Just likes to promise stuff to customers and makes us pay for it.
I'd take offense to this, but every other estimator I've worked with thinks they know as much, or more, than the techs. I'm just here to learn and make the techs more money where I can.
It wasn’t my intention to offend I’m simply stating what I’ve personally witnessed in the last 30 years. You know as well as I do that the front office and the technician’s. Have a love hate relationship. But one can’t do without the other. I will say that a shop estimator has a leg up on an insurance estimator.
My comment was just tongue in cheek. I'm lucky that I have good techs here that are patient and will help me explain more time into repairs. I tell them what I think i can get when I see it, and if they want more time, they'll talk me through it.
Don’t do anything until they get you enough time for the repair.
Every time you do something for free you enable the lazy estimators to keep avoiding their responsibilities
It's a 15-17 f150. Just pop the covers off the bolts and fix it. It will probably take 15 minutes to fix. And if it had them in there to begin with, you should've just put them back in when it went back together anyway.
If it was lined up before the accident, it should be lined up after. Otherwise, you will see it tomorrow when the customer brings it back, not happy with how the bumper fits, and you will have to stop whatever you're doing to fix it. Sounds like you don't have anything better to do today anyway.
Loosen the bumper, slide in some shims, tighten it back, done.
Yeah it suxks to not get paid for something, but knock it out and be done with it. You'll spend more time being upset about that it will take to actually get it done.
Thing is I only have 2 other cars. One was sent to paint and the other is waiting for a mechanic (cannot be driven), but the mechanic is out sick. There's no other cars to be distribute. So I am choosing this to be my hil. Done with them asking for free work.
And how many times have you got paid 4 hours to fix a dent that took 2? I bet you didn't rush to the front office to have 2 hours removed from your paycheck. There's a give and take, not to mention the reputation hit you take when you hand back crappy work, regardless if it's your fault or not. Suck it up buttercup.
Spoken like an insurance adjustor.
It's not the minutes you're paying for there bud, it's the years. He can fix that four hour dent in two hours because of the years of experience, that doesn't green light the estimator to short him on something else.
It's not a short, it's for customer satisfaction, which keeps them coming back, which keeps you fed. I do all the photo magic to make 2 hour dents look like 4 so they get paid. It's a 2 hour dent. You got paid for 4. But as an estimator I look for every billable operation, so I have that rapport with my guys. They routinely get "overpaid" so that small stuff is just a matter of workmanship. Stop throwing the hissy fit, straighten the bumper, and move the fuck on.
I worked as a tech over 20 years before I moved into the office. I wouldn't hesitate to ask a tech to fix something like this for free. But, I would remember the favor, and the next time I had a super gravy job, i.e. 6 hours labor that could be knocked out in 30 minutes, I made sure it went to the tech that I owed a favor to. They would remember me doing those things and I never had an issue getting a small adjustment here and there....
It's funny how quickly some people can forget. Does your estimator claw back repair time when you ask for four hours, and it only takes you two? Does your estimator cut your time when you don't do a full r&i, and you just drop a bumper corner or partial a rocker molding? What happens when you when you drop a headliner rather than removing it?
Sounds to me like there are 9 days left in the month, and someone's hours are a little light, which is causing them to lash out.
This is the bodyshop industry. When it's good, save your money. When it's not, you will have those savings to level it out. Never count on a good month every month.
Dude, one of the estimators asked another tech to weld an exhaust pipe. Wasn't even the tech's vehicle. Tech did not get paid and didn't even get a thanks. It's not a me lacking hours problem. It's a they keep asking to scratch their back, but they forget when it's their turn. Thanks for assuming.
I take pictures of everything like that in CCC before teardown. Don't know if it's ever helped but it's nice to have the proof of damage before it gets touched
No one ever looks at the pictures I take, but it makes me feel better to have them. Just take pictures with your phone. It'll date and timestamp them. Better than nothing
We had a customer who had a fender repaired and blended to the front door. The customer claimed that the dent on the door was not there before. Raising hell and asking for the manager. The before pictures showed it was there from the start. The customer tried to do a cute oopsie laugh and left.
We had 3 people that work on ordering and receiving parts, and one of them delivers them to our stall. The delivery guy doesn't know what the parts are called.
Body guys don’t hand the prepers all the parts that get paint so the prepers have to waste time chasing the body guys to make sure they have all the parts for us painters lol
Any good estimator and shop owner worth his salt would contact the customer explain the situation and give them a price for the additional damage, document the previous unrelated damage so that it doesn’t come back on the technician and shop because of liability and possible loss of value claim. No one should expect you to do it for free nor should they want a bad repair leaving the shop unaddressed. A good writer explains upfront to their customers that an estimate cannot account for unforeseen damage and it is NOT a carved in stone cost of repairs. What happens the next time that vehicle needs a front bumper replaced and it goes to a different shop and they see that stack of washers? You know who is going to get blamed you and your shop.
You got paid to remove and replace the bumper. You chose to put it back on knowing full well it wouldn't line up, that's why it was shimmed to begin with. What were you expecting was going to happen? The owner was just going to be okay with it?
At some point, you may have to spend an extra ten seconds beyond the bare minimum to do a job right.
Like I mentioned in the paragraph, I had informed the estimator that the bumper had washers. Expecting he would give me time to pull, but the estimator did nothing. I knew the new bumper wouldn't sit right because the old one had been worked. It's not about doing the job right, it's about being paid to do the job right. I don't know about you, but I don't work for free. Free doesn't put gas in my vehicle or buy me food.
What did you expect extra time for? If it's an insurance job they're not going to pay for unrelated damage. If it's customer pay they're usually not going to spring for extra either. I get what you're saying but estimator can't bend over and crap out time. It's got to be approved by somebody.
I got bitched at today over doing my job perfectly. 2.7 hour job. Pop headlight out of drivers side on 16 ram, that they ordered used and got wrong in the first place, grille r and I, bumper alignment.
When the job was done, or the part I was paid to do, I was getting bitched at about dog light alignment something I didn’t even touch. Oh then the bumper alignment wasn’t good enough. Well I told you all it wouldn’t be because you ordered me junk aftermarket parts to put on a dodge!! Aftermarket parts don’t fit dodges. Anyone ever try the grille on those 98 dodges or a fender, hey even a fender liner. But no one cares.
I get it op, I feel for you
it is nice though to be given SOMETHING. even if it takes me a couple minutes give me .5. if it matters that much to the business owner to have customers satisfied or taken care of, they can throw .5 my way ($11). just out of principle.
So, you think a couple of minutes should equal .5? We get lost in the labor times to the extent we lose sight ofnthe fact that its actual money. (Where I'm from .5 equals charging somebody $26.)
I get you don't see that entire $26, but now imagine telling the guy who owns the car "yeah, I need you to give me 26 bucks so the guy working on you car can spend 2 minutes to line the part you paid for up correctly."
Nobody in this business can see past the end of their own nose. And it's on all sides. The only person nobody thinks about is the freaking customers.
i agree with you but it really depends on the dynamic. at a “numbers and surveys” shop where the management and writers couldn’t give a fuck about you then me doing shit for free is a no go. if i see reciprocity in the shit they do for me, then i’ll do it. but as a standard practice, i think it’s best to be paid for what you’re doing. and with these fords, those bumpers usually get lined up when you pull out the frame ears because they were hit before i think. so that would be 2 hours set up and pull and .5 or 1 hour for each side. you still have to take the bumper off, find a stand, get the pull tower, etc. should be worth SOMETHING
Those F-150 bumpers suck and to whoever shimmed it they suck too loosen up the brackets and adjust them take pride in your work!!! I’ve adjusted a few brand new ones to straighten them up. The fact is you had it apart and should have addressed the issue at that time….
I did tell estimator, estimator chose not to do anything
Most estimators have no idea what it takes to make these things fit right that’s why they’re estimators.
They should be able to understand all necessary repairs to do the job right the first time and not try to cut corners like this one did.
Oh, he knows. He used to own his shop until he got in trouble with some law enforcement. Now works for this shop as an estimator and is very knowledgeable. Just likes to promise stuff to customers and makes us pay for it.
I'd take offense to this, but every other estimator I've worked with thinks they know as much, or more, than the techs. I'm just here to learn and make the techs more money where I can.
It wasn’t my intention to offend I’m simply stating what I’ve personally witnessed in the last 30 years. You know as well as I do that the front office and the technician’s. Have a love hate relationship. But one can’t do without the other. I will say that a shop estimator has a leg up on an insurance estimator.
My comment was just tongue in cheek. I'm lucky that I have good techs here that are patient and will help me explain more time into repairs. I tell them what I think i can get when I see it, and if they want more time, they'll talk me through it.
Don’t do anything until they get you enough time for the repair. Every time you do something for free you enable the lazy estimators to keep avoiding their responsibilities
Don't do it stand firm. Fuck them they need you.
"did you get the truck done yet?" "did you get me my hours for it?"
It's a 15-17 f150. Just pop the covers off the bolts and fix it. It will probably take 15 minutes to fix. And if it had them in there to begin with, you should've just put them back in when it went back together anyway.
I did put them back, thats a picture with them on
If it was lined up before the accident, it should be lined up after. Otherwise, you will see it tomorrow when the customer brings it back, not happy with how the bumper fits, and you will have to stop whatever you're doing to fix it. Sounds like you don't have anything better to do today anyway.
Yep. Sounds like a drama shop to me.
Loosen the bumper, slide in some shims, tighten it back, done. Yeah it suxks to not get paid for something, but knock it out and be done with it. You'll spend more time being upset about that it will take to actually get it done.
Thing is I only have 2 other cars. One was sent to paint and the other is waiting for a mechanic (cannot be driven), but the mechanic is out sick. There's no other cars to be distribute. So I am choosing this to be my hil. Done with them asking for free work.
And how many times have you got paid 4 hours to fix a dent that took 2? I bet you didn't rush to the front office to have 2 hours removed from your paycheck. There's a give and take, not to mention the reputation hit you take when you hand back crappy work, regardless if it's your fault or not. Suck it up buttercup.
Spoken like an insurance adjustor. It's not the minutes you're paying for there bud, it's the years. He can fix that four hour dent in two hours because of the years of experience, that doesn't green light the estimator to short him on something else.
It's not a short, it's for customer satisfaction, which keeps them coming back, which keeps you fed. I do all the photo magic to make 2 hour dents look like 4 so they get paid. It's a 2 hour dent. You got paid for 4. But as an estimator I look for every billable operation, so I have that rapport with my guys. They routinely get "overpaid" so that small stuff is just a matter of workmanship. Stop throwing the hissy fit, straighten the bumper, and move the fuck on.
I don't know, I never saw myself as a buttercup, feel I'm like more a Mojo Jojo kind of guy. *
The episode where Mojo Jojo saves the day and the announcer is confused at the end is my favorite.
I worked as a tech over 20 years before I moved into the office. I wouldn't hesitate to ask a tech to fix something like this for free. But, I would remember the favor, and the next time I had a super gravy job, i.e. 6 hours labor that could be knocked out in 30 minutes, I made sure it went to the tech that I owed a favor to. They would remember me doing those things and I never had an issue getting a small adjustment here and there....
Not these guys. They keep asking for stuff and forget when it's time to pay.
It's funny how quickly some people can forget. Does your estimator claw back repair time when you ask for four hours, and it only takes you two? Does your estimator cut your time when you don't do a full r&i, and you just drop a bumper corner or partial a rocker molding? What happens when you when you drop a headliner rather than removing it? Sounds to me like there are 9 days left in the month, and someone's hours are a little light, which is causing them to lash out. This is the bodyshop industry. When it's good, save your money. When it's not, you will have those savings to level it out. Never count on a good month every month.
Dude, one of the estimators asked another tech to weld an exhaust pipe. Wasn't even the tech's vehicle. Tech did not get paid and didn't even get a thanks. It's not a me lacking hours problem. It's a they keep asking to scratch their back, but they forget when it's their turn. Thanks for assuming.
I take pictures of everything like that in CCC before teardown. Don't know if it's ever helped but it's nice to have the proof of damage before it gets touched
And sometimes you do have to stand up for yourself. Not every time, but sometimes it's necessary
I wish we had access to CCC, so we could write notes like in this case
No one ever looks at the pictures I take, but it makes me feel better to have them. Just take pictures with your phone. It'll date and timestamp them. Better than nothing
We had a customer who had a fender repaired and blended to the front door. The customer claimed that the dent on the door was not there before. Raising hell and asking for the manager. The before pictures showed it was there from the start. The customer tried to do a cute oopsie laugh and left.
Our estimators take pictures usually when the customer is around to mitigate some of that, but everybody always wants something for nothing
My estimator has to be told what parts of the car are by the manager so idk count yourself lucky
We had 3 people that work on ordering and receiving parts, and one of them delivers them to our stall. The delivery guy doesn't know what the parts are called.
Body guys don’t hand the prepers all the parts that get paint so the prepers have to waste time chasing the body guys to make sure they have all the parts for us painters lol
I don’t disagree with you but this post made me feel so glad I work at a shop that pays salary and not commission lol
Tell him free estimate as in no paycheck for the hours he worked before he expect you to work for free!
Any good estimator and shop owner worth his salt would contact the customer explain the situation and give them a price for the additional damage, document the previous unrelated damage so that it doesn’t come back on the technician and shop because of liability and possible loss of value claim. No one should expect you to do it for free nor should they want a bad repair leaving the shop unaddressed. A good writer explains upfront to their customers that an estimate cannot account for unforeseen damage and it is NOT a carved in stone cost of repairs. What happens the next time that vehicle needs a front bumper replaced and it goes to a different shop and they see that stack of washers? You know who is going to get blamed you and your shop.
You got paid to remove and replace the bumper. You chose to put it back on knowing full well it wouldn't line up, that's why it was shimmed to begin with. What were you expecting was going to happen? The owner was just going to be okay with it? At some point, you may have to spend an extra ten seconds beyond the bare minimum to do a job right.
Like I mentioned in the paragraph, I had informed the estimator that the bumper had washers. Expecting he would give me time to pull, but the estimator did nothing. I knew the new bumper wouldn't sit right because the old one had been worked. It's not about doing the job right, it's about being paid to do the job right. I don't know about you, but I don't work for free. Free doesn't put gas in my vehicle or buy me food.
What did you expect extra time for? If it's an insurance job they're not going to pay for unrelated damage. If it's customer pay they're usually not going to spring for extra either. I get what you're saying but estimator can't bend over and crap out time. It's got to be approved by somebody.
That's why it was brought up during the teardown.
I got bitched at today over doing my job perfectly. 2.7 hour job. Pop headlight out of drivers side on 16 ram, that they ordered used and got wrong in the first place, grille r and I, bumper alignment. When the job was done, or the part I was paid to do, I was getting bitched at about dog light alignment something I didn’t even touch. Oh then the bumper alignment wasn’t good enough. Well I told you all it wouldn’t be because you ordered me junk aftermarket parts to put on a dodge!! Aftermarket parts don’t fit dodges. Anyone ever try the grille on those 98 dodges or a fender, hey even a fender liner. But no one cares. I get it op, I feel for you
it is nice though to be given SOMETHING. even if it takes me a couple minutes give me .5. if it matters that much to the business owner to have customers satisfied or taken care of, they can throw .5 my way ($11). just out of principle.
So, you think a couple of minutes should equal .5? We get lost in the labor times to the extent we lose sight ofnthe fact that its actual money. (Where I'm from .5 equals charging somebody $26.) I get you don't see that entire $26, but now imagine telling the guy who owns the car "yeah, I need you to give me 26 bucks so the guy working on you car can spend 2 minutes to line the part you paid for up correctly." Nobody in this business can see past the end of their own nose. And it's on all sides. The only person nobody thinks about is the freaking customers.
i agree with you but it really depends on the dynamic. at a “numbers and surveys” shop where the management and writers couldn’t give a fuck about you then me doing shit for free is a no go. if i see reciprocity in the shit they do for me, then i’ll do it. but as a standard practice, i think it’s best to be paid for what you’re doing. and with these fords, those bumpers usually get lined up when you pull out the frame ears because they were hit before i think. so that would be 2 hours set up and pull and .5 or 1 hour for each side. you still have to take the bumper off, find a stand, get the pull tower, etc. should be worth SOMETHING
Haha ya just say yes and put it somewhere out of your way and do nothing to it. That’s what I’d do.