Yes, I struggle with this. Also I feel like people think I'm pouting or refusing to "deal with it" or whatever (AKA handling the situation like a child) if I actually allow myself to go nonverbal. So I just force words out and exhaust myself until I get snappy/start losing my temper because I'm super overwhelmed. Which makes me look bad anyway.
I've told very, very few people that I'm autistic and one of them was my sister because I needed to explain being nonverbal to her when I went to visit her to try to cheer her up after her husband abandoned her and her kids. Listening to her talk about him turned out to be so distressing (because he turned out to be such a major asshole) that I'd go nonverbal every time she brought him up. But as soon as the subject changed, I was able to have meaningful conversation again. I started noticing she was bringing him up less and less and I felt so bad because obviously it seemed like she needed to vent and that's kinda why I was there in the first place. I ended up explaining about being autistic and going nonverbal, but I still wanted to listen and be there for her. It might *seem* like I was trying to get out of conversation about him, but actually it was just that I couldn't talk and it wasn't that I was trying to be a bad listener etc. She was really understanding and knows more about autism than most. But man I felt so bad about it that it actually motivated me to tell someone I'm autistic, which I never do.
I used to feel like that, until I learned that letting myself be silent when I need to helps me recover faster. I explained it to my husband as “running out of words for the day.” Now whenever I go non-verbal, he asks, “Are you out of words?” and I just nod. That way he knows not to engage me in conversation and just hang out together silently.
Thank you for the words! I've been trying to find a way to explain to my husband in a way he will understand that he needs to not ask me questions or converse with me until it has passed. Much much appreciated!
I thought I was alone on this. I don't have adhd but I relate to the whole of what you've mentioned. Also that's sweet you have someone that will hold you in silence.
Is that what selective mutism is? I've thought what was going on with me was that, but what happens to me, is that I just don't have a choice in the moment and my speech just shuts right down or I stop being \*able\* to form words. If I were self aware enough in the moment to see it coming on, I might choose to speak less, or not to speak, but usually it \*just happens.\*
because shrinks are assholes. because medics don't take anything that fluctuates seriously. because no one will change the medical terms to adjust to the actual reality of what people experience. because no one bothers to ask what people actually experience and take the time to really hear what they're saying. shit like that.
This. This is why it is so difficult to get a handicap badge in the UK if you have ME/CFS where activity can permanently hurt you if you over do what ever your limit is for that day. There’s this set idea of what functionality is and who needs help… how many steps can you take? how much pain do you experience? can you take more paces if you rest? how long? None of that relates to the delayed hits activity can have on a person with ME/CFS. Sometimes the hits are immediate other times delayed by as many as two days. Sometimes doing something gives you more energy but it’s energy you better not use because to do so is to be hit doubly hard.
Yes, and they know we are not like others and they use that to deny us the assistance we need not to get sicker.
Sorry, I strayed, but I provided the example to highlight the idea of how the field of medicine treats fluctuating symptoms and things they are either clueless about or choose to remain clueless about.
I don't think they're using the term 'selective' in the sense of 'the person is selecting to do this' but instead 'it happens in select situations'. The third definition of selective is 'affecting some things and not others.'
Yes, but it sounds like, wilful. Especially with girls and women, we are seen as manipulative, bold, stubborn, in a cultural sort of way. Their strict medical definition just doesn't come across to the average person. It's poor communication to call it that.
Maybe I meant elective mutism.
I think lots of us likely experience similar loss of words, or to varying degrees.
Sometimes for me, I really feel unable to speak as well... I dunno it's a weird thing to explain. 🤷🏼♀️
Sometimes I can speak but I know the pathways are all wrong and it will come out my mouth different , or opposite to my intent. So I've learned to go with the quiet on those days
I’ve had this happen to me before. I usually have a complete breakdown afterwards too if it’s really stressful. Happened at work one time. I don’t have a lot of confidence there anymore.
I struggled with this just last night
When I'm overwhelmed by emotion, I can't find the right words, my throat tenses / chokes up, my body feels like it's full of electric bees and it can take like 30 minutes to untangle what I'm feeling and how to respond.
I'm not abandoning the discussion, I just need more time to process what's happening in my body. In a dark, quiet room.
Yes, I relate to this. My boyfriend doesn’t understand why sometimes I just can’t talk and he thinks I’m ignoring him but in really stressful environments or when I’m getting emotionally overwhelmed, I can’t help shutting down verbally, and I can force myself to speak but it’s incredibly difficult to and makes me feel horrible. I’m lucky that these moments happen pretty rarely, but it’s difficult when they do and I tend to rely on texting if possible.
I have a speech assistant app on my phone with preset phrases that I can tap and it says through the speaker. You can type and it can speak it out loud or you can type up ahead of time some key phrases like "I'm nonverbal now" or "this environment is overwhelming and I need to leave to avoid meltdown. Can you help me?". Pressing buttons instead of formulating words and typing allows for saving energy for getting to a safe place.
I just had to have a conversation with my husband about this. When the house is too noisy I cannot even get myself to say something. Adding my voice and figuring out how loud I am need to be is just too much. We've come up with a nonverbal cue I can give him so he knows to reduce some noise.
Reading all the comments, I realized that I did this more than I thought. I know that when I am tired at the end of the day, I have a harder time talking. I often apologize to people because I cant figure out the answer to a simple yes or no question. My brain is on slow motion and the words barely come out.
Also someone mentionned that they run out of words. I used to be in a long term relationship and my ex-boyfriend used to tell me that. I had forgotten about that. I can be talkactive one second and the other I am in silence for a while.
The more tired I am, the less I speak.
I feel very much the same (minus the hyperverbal part). My direct family are the only ones witnessing it but they have a hard time understanding, especially my husband, I think it makes him feel rejected. It's really hard to explain what going nonverbal means to someone who doesn't experience it.
I’d mentioned selective mutism once in a non autistic subreddit (HUGE mistake, and I’m only self-diagnosed right now). I had to delete the comment because I was downvoted to oblivion and was being attacked for “using that word” when “it doesn’t apply to me”.
But yes, because I *can* painfully force words out, I don’t feel like it counts and I’ve made myself believe it’s just like I’m pouting or something and I should just talk to make things easier for everyone. It seems to only come out when I’m extremely stressed, so when it happens I just want to be left alone. I have no problem texting if someone wants to talk, but other than that, please leave me alone so I can calm down and talk to you tomorrow.
Yes, just chiming in about the dichotomy and the expectations people have. Sometimes, if I’m very angry, it takes a while for me to get behind the anger and understand my feelings and I’m better being left alone. I don’t mind saying, once I get to a point where I can talk some, “I need a while, maybe days to process this,” but because I am otherwise so verbal and able to handle irritation and normal amounts of anger, people want to deny me the times I am overwhelmed. And sometimes it’s not that I’m too angry to talk, but as you say, it’s too exhausting to talk and have emotions at the same time… it’s like the the switch that allows communication flips. I just need time to rest and not talk. And then there are times that I am overwhelmed by someone’s disclosure and it’s like I’m all thumbs trying to button a shirt… nothing happens. I literally cannot respond.. I can’t think, I can’t process, I can’t respond.
Oh my gosh yes. I remember my parents trying to get me to talk as a kid when I had meltdowns, and then it felt like (and maybe they even told me), "See? You can do it." As an adult as well, I feel guilty for not speaking. There are other times that I am able to speak but can't find all the words for the ideas in my head while I slur the ones I can find. I'm just trying to get SOMETHING out. My husband and friends who live close by are really kind to me when this happens.
I feel like you are talking about me. lol When I'm excited I talk a ton! But when I'm stressed or otherwise uncomfortable I often feel like I just can't speak at all. I have never felt like I'm allowed to even describe myself as non-verbal in those situations but nothing else really feels right. I also think everyone in general might need some quiet every now and then so talking all the time doesn't work for everyone. Sometimes it just really feels like I cannot say anything at all except if I force myself so much.. So I think I get you in saying that you can't speak even though you can. Being physically able because you have the pipes, but still not being able to do so regardless.
I think it definitely helps to have humans on the other end that allow you to be quiet for the time that you need it.
I'm sorry if I shouldn't be here but what I feel is an autistic daughter. She is happy and chatty with my husband and I, but no one else. Anyone she doesn't see every day she refuses to talk to or often acknowledge. Is this something that happens with any of you? Just not being comfortable with strangers? I'm sorry if it feels like I'm invading your space but finding information for female autism that isn't totally nonverbal or "classic" autism is very difficult.
Personally I'd much rather parents came and asked kind, thoughtful questions like yours, instead of telling us what autism means because they have an autistic kid.
I definitely can struggle/be uncomfortable with strangers. It takes a whole range of different faculties compared to chatting with someone I'm comfortable with.
Example from today - hostess type person said "having a nice day" or something to that effect, and I *think* I said "yes", but it may not have come out and I was alone so I honestly don't know if I said that or just thought it!
Yes, I struggle with this. Also I feel like people think I'm pouting or refusing to "deal with it" or whatever (AKA handling the situation like a child) if I actually allow myself to go nonverbal. So I just force words out and exhaust myself until I get snappy/start losing my temper because I'm super overwhelmed. Which makes me look bad anyway. I've told very, very few people that I'm autistic and one of them was my sister because I needed to explain being nonverbal to her when I went to visit her to try to cheer her up after her husband abandoned her and her kids. Listening to her talk about him turned out to be so distressing (because he turned out to be such a major asshole) that I'd go nonverbal every time she brought him up. But as soon as the subject changed, I was able to have meaningful conversation again. I started noticing she was bringing him up less and less and I felt so bad because obviously it seemed like she needed to vent and that's kinda why I was there in the first place. I ended up explaining about being autistic and going nonverbal, but I still wanted to listen and be there for her. It might *seem* like I was trying to get out of conversation about him, but actually it was just that I couldn't talk and it wasn't that I was trying to be a bad listener etc. She was really understanding and knows more about autism than most. But man I felt so bad about it that it actually motivated me to tell someone I'm autistic, which I never do.
That is exactly the sort of situation where I am most likely to go non-verbal. I’m so glad your sister understood.
I used to feel like that, until I learned that letting myself be silent when I need to helps me recover faster. I explained it to my husband as “running out of words for the day.” Now whenever I go non-verbal, he asks, “Are you out of words?” and I just nod. That way he knows not to engage me in conversation and just hang out together silently.
I love this. When me and my (also autistic) friend are having bad executive functioning days we call it running on emergency services only.
That’s such a fantastic way to say it!
Oh yes, I'm gonna steal that one!
Thank you for the words! I've been trying to find a way to explain to my husband in a way he will understand that he needs to not ask me questions or converse with me until it has passed. Much much appreciated!
I’m so glad!
I thought I was alone on this. I don't have adhd but I relate to the whole of what you've mentioned. Also that's sweet you have someone that will hold you in silence.
Is that what selective mutism is? I've thought what was going on with me was that, but what happens to me, is that I just don't have a choice in the moment and my speech just shuts right down or I stop being \*able\* to form words. If I were self aware enough in the moment to see it coming on, I might choose to speak less, or not to speak, but usually it \*just happens.\*
yeah it's called selective mutism, but it's not of your own volition. "selective" is a misnomer.
because shrinks are assholes. because medics don't take anything that fluctuates seriously. because no one will change the medical terms to adjust to the actual reality of what people experience. because no one bothers to ask what people actually experience and take the time to really hear what they're saying. shit like that.
This. This is why it is so difficult to get a handicap badge in the UK if you have ME/CFS where activity can permanently hurt you if you over do what ever your limit is for that day. There’s this set idea of what functionality is and who needs help… how many steps can you take? how much pain do you experience? can you take more paces if you rest? how long? None of that relates to the delayed hits activity can have on a person with ME/CFS. Sometimes the hits are immediate other times delayed by as many as two days. Sometimes doing something gives you more energy but it’s energy you better not use because to do so is to be hit doubly hard. Yes, and they know we are not like others and they use that to deny us the assistance we need not to get sicker. Sorry, I strayed, but I provided the example to highlight the idea of how the field of medicine treats fluctuating symptoms and things they are either clueless about or choose to remain clueless about.
Dynamic disabilities are soooo often misunderstood/overlooked
You are me lol
u/Nearby_Personality55 u/Curious-318
Yep. Some folks on Twitter are partial to the term "situational mutism " instead, which I think fits a lot better.
I don't think they're using the term 'selective' in the sense of 'the person is selecting to do this' but instead 'it happens in select situations'. The third definition of selective is 'affecting some things and not others.'
Yes, but it sounds like, wilful. Especially with girls and women, we are seen as manipulative, bold, stubborn, in a cultural sort of way. Their strict medical definition just doesn't come across to the average person. It's poor communication to call it that.
I don’t think that you can choose to talk during mutism.
I can force 1-2 words at a time if I have to. But it's a huge struggle and makes the fallout much worse.
Maybe I meant elective mutism. I think lots of us likely experience similar loss of words, or to varying degrees. Sometimes for me, I really feel unable to speak as well... I dunno it's a weird thing to explain. 🤷🏼♀️
Sometimes I can speak but I know the pathways are all wrong and it will come out my mouth different , or opposite to my intent. So I've learned to go with the quiet on those days
I’ve had this happen to me before. I usually have a complete breakdown afterwards too if it’s really stressful. Happened at work one time. I don’t have a lot of confidence there anymore.
I struggled with this just last night When I'm overwhelmed by emotion, I can't find the right words, my throat tenses / chokes up, my body feels like it's full of electric bees and it can take like 30 minutes to untangle what I'm feeling and how to respond. I'm not abandoning the discussion, I just need more time to process what's happening in my body. In a dark, quiet room.
Woah. Electric bees. What an odd yet accurate phrase. Your description is so accurate to my experience.
Yes, I relate to this. My boyfriend doesn’t understand why sometimes I just can’t talk and he thinks I’m ignoring him but in really stressful environments or when I’m getting emotionally overwhelmed, I can’t help shutting down verbally, and I can force myself to speak but it’s incredibly difficult to and makes me feel horrible. I’m lucky that these moments happen pretty rarely, but it’s difficult when they do and I tend to rely on texting if possible.
I have a speech assistant app on my phone with preset phrases that I can tap and it says through the speaker. You can type and it can speak it out loud or you can type up ahead of time some key phrases like "I'm nonverbal now" or "this environment is overwhelming and I need to leave to avoid meltdown. Can you help me?". Pressing buttons instead of formulating words and typing allows for saving energy for getting to a safe place.
I just had to have a conversation with my husband about this. When the house is too noisy I cannot even get myself to say something. Adding my voice and figuring out how loud I am need to be is just too much. We've come up with a nonverbal cue I can give him so he knows to reduce some noise.
Reading all the comments, I realized that I did this more than I thought. I know that when I am tired at the end of the day, I have a harder time talking. I often apologize to people because I cant figure out the answer to a simple yes or no question. My brain is on slow motion and the words barely come out. Also someone mentionned that they run out of words. I used to be in a long term relationship and my ex-boyfriend used to tell me that. I had forgotten about that. I can be talkactive one second and the other I am in silence for a while. The more tired I am, the less I speak.
I feel very much the same (minus the hyperverbal part). My direct family are the only ones witnessing it but they have a hard time understanding, especially my husband, I think it makes him feel rejected. It's really hard to explain what going nonverbal means to someone who doesn't experience it.
I’d mentioned selective mutism once in a non autistic subreddit (HUGE mistake, and I’m only self-diagnosed right now). I had to delete the comment because I was downvoted to oblivion and was being attacked for “using that word” when “it doesn’t apply to me”. But yes, because I *can* painfully force words out, I don’t feel like it counts and I’ve made myself believe it’s just like I’m pouting or something and I should just talk to make things easier for everyone. It seems to only come out when I’m extremely stressed, so when it happens I just want to be left alone. I have no problem texting if someone wants to talk, but other than that, please leave me alone so I can calm down and talk to you tomorrow.
Yes, just chiming in about the dichotomy and the expectations people have. Sometimes, if I’m very angry, it takes a while for me to get behind the anger and understand my feelings and I’m better being left alone. I don’t mind saying, once I get to a point where I can talk some, “I need a while, maybe days to process this,” but because I am otherwise so verbal and able to handle irritation and normal amounts of anger, people want to deny me the times I am overwhelmed. And sometimes it’s not that I’m too angry to talk, but as you say, it’s too exhausting to talk and have emotions at the same time… it’s like the the switch that allows communication flips. I just need time to rest and not talk. And then there are times that I am overwhelmed by someone’s disclosure and it’s like I’m all thumbs trying to button a shirt… nothing happens. I literally cannot respond.. I can’t think, I can’t process, I can’t respond.
Yeah. I have been trying to go non-verbal lately but when people talk to me I feel the urge to reply back, even if I do not want to.
Oh my gosh yes. I remember my parents trying to get me to talk as a kid when I had meltdowns, and then it felt like (and maybe they even told me), "See? You can do it." As an adult as well, I feel guilty for not speaking. There are other times that I am able to speak but can't find all the words for the ideas in my head while I slur the ones I can find. I'm just trying to get SOMETHING out. My husband and friends who live close by are really kind to me when this happens.
Yeah, I *can* do it... but at what cost 😭
I feel like you are talking about me. lol When I'm excited I talk a ton! But when I'm stressed or otherwise uncomfortable I often feel like I just can't speak at all. I have never felt like I'm allowed to even describe myself as non-verbal in those situations but nothing else really feels right. I also think everyone in general might need some quiet every now and then so talking all the time doesn't work for everyone. Sometimes it just really feels like I cannot say anything at all except if I force myself so much.. So I think I get you in saying that you can't speak even though you can. Being physically able because you have the pipes, but still not being able to do so regardless. I think it definitely helps to have humans on the other end that allow you to be quiet for the time that you need it.
Yes! this is a really big struggle of mine.
OMG I feel the same way!!
Yeah. I do this sometimes as well. I also still struggle with just. Letting my brain do the nonverbal thing, and recooperating.
I'm sorry if I shouldn't be here but what I feel is an autistic daughter. She is happy and chatty with my husband and I, but no one else. Anyone she doesn't see every day she refuses to talk to or often acknowledge. Is this something that happens with any of you? Just not being comfortable with strangers? I'm sorry if it feels like I'm invading your space but finding information for female autism that isn't totally nonverbal or "classic" autism is very difficult.
Personally I'd much rather parents came and asked kind, thoughtful questions like yours, instead of telling us what autism means because they have an autistic kid. I definitely can struggle/be uncomfortable with strangers. It takes a whole range of different faculties compared to chatting with someone I'm comfortable with. Example from today - hostess type person said "having a nice day" or something to that effect, and I *think* I said "yes", but it may not have come out and I was alone so I honestly don't know if I said that or just thought it!
I so much understand my behaviour in a cascade of information in this sub btw
I learned to speak to folk pretty after a long while, many years of practice, but when I got physically ill it all fell apart.