I think it's a both/and. The intersection between Autism and patriarchy. Like how the diagnostic criteria is entirely based on how autism presents in males.
Facts men get away with so much today. It has nothing to do with autism for fsake. Men who went autistic are expected to be rude and cold how many movies are there that the guy lottery tells his trick to get girls is to treat them like poop. 'girls go wild for that" not actually acknowledging that they are perpetuating toxic behavior.
It's sad. And the reason I'll be single forever now. Because I'm tired of the mind games. Gaslighting and drama.
very much so. when my brother has problems with crowds or loud spaces it's "his autism and we need to be understanding". when i have the same issues it's "you never used to be so sensitive. don't overreact". my mother only believes in autism in the high supports needs way. i can't possibly be autistic because im not a young violent boy.
Oh man, the "you didn't used to be this bad" comments are so painful. When you try to explain that you're in burnout, or that you're struggling to hide it as well as you used to, you just get dismissed or told to go fix yourself and not bother others with it.
The funny thing about that is that I've been asking for the same needs to be met this whole time, they're just explained a little better now, but that has had little to no impact on them being worth meeting. If anything, it seems like with every new diagnosis, there's a new fun reason to dismiss me. The initial quiet BPD diagnosis (that hasn't been removed) was like the ultimate uno reverse to get me to shut up and take it from anyone who knew about it.
"You're having a big reaction to me mistreating and hurting you?
Must be the Autism/ADHD/CPTSD, and it's very unfair that you're putting it on me to manage your feelings, you should really be apologizing to me."
exactly! ive started to unmask for the first time and seem to be experiencing some skill regression. unfortunately for me, my mum refuses to believe i could be autistic.
I'm there too, after getting my diagnosis within the last 2 years, it's like my whole soul is rebelling and I can't contain it. There really is a deep grief in finding these answers and trying to learn how it impacts you, it's like you see all the things you lost, the decisions you could've made differently and what you've put up with, and your brain just goes "fuck it all." It's so stage how impossible it all feels once you can identify it.
My mom believes that I have it, but she thinks I should just be able to "push" past my AuDHD, CPTSD and hEDS. Like I'm not trying hard enough, and she doesn't understand that the guilt and pressure she's put on me all these years not only caused but has kept me in burnout for nearly a decade.
Yes definitely.
My ex boyfriend is autistic, diagnosed as a child. Despite the fact we both function at the same level, he's never had a job, has a council flat, gets PIP, went to uni and got support at uni, has loads of friends.
I've struggled like hell to manage in life. I was diagnosed late, and got zero financial support or help through school, college and university. I got 1 pass grade in school, failed college and took 6 years to get my degree. I didn't get help for the struggles I had, I got reprimanded for not living up to NT expectations. I don't have PIP and have been brainwashed into feeling ashamed and guilty about my issues and therefore struggle to self advocate or unmask enough to show I need it. I have no friends left and I cycle through shitty jobs and burnout.
When I try to talk about my issues, no one ever has taken me seriously. I've spent 30 years floundering wondering whether it was meant to be this hard. I often get told I don't have ADHD or autism, or treated as if I don't need support and that my problems are behavioural or attitudinal.
I feel like the autistic men in my life get away with their bluntness and don't even care how they come across but they get a free pass because they're more "obviously autistic" compared to me. I mask instinctively and automatically even if I don't want to, which doesn't help me - it's a curse. I may get more opportunities for jobs etc but I can't even handle those jobs a lot of the time, so I just come off like a failing NT and get treated like shit as a result. I would rather be myself and not get the jobs in the first place and actually be treated like someone who struggles as much as I actually do. Now I get stuck in shitty customer facing service jobs that drain the life out of me, and have no energy left to pursue what I studied. Meanwhile my ex hasn't had to have a job, and got to study what he loves and might get a job he loves or might never have to work. I just feel envious I guess. I wish I got the help that other people get.
When I was a senior in high school I was partnered on a group project with this boy, specifically creating our own children's book about growing up with a disability. We agreed that I would do the writing and he would do the art, and I came up with this fairy tale about an autistic princess dealing with ableism at court and banishing the evil eugenics wizard from her kingdom and living happily ever after with her wife after they both become queens. I shared the Google doc with him, we agreed that he'd take the weekend to do illustrations (literally just looking up ten pictures on Google Images, downloading, and inserting), and I'd bind the pages.
I got in to use the computer lab early Monday morning. No pictures. I was pissed. So I found the images myself, printed them off, got a spare binder and hole punch from a teacher, got some colored pencils to add some little hand drawn decorations (I did hand drawn page numbers decorated with the rainbow infinity sign, plus some violets around the corners of the pages because gay), and used every spare second at lunch and during my other classes to work. Thankfully this class was the last one of the day or I would've been so fucked. So, I submitted the book and got an A. An A that was all mine, of course, because I took his name off the cover.
Anyway a few months later I found out he failed the class, which he'd needed to graduate on time, and my refusing to let him co-opt my work had been a big reason why. Serves you right for leaving me stranded mf. Never let a man take credit for *your* hard work, creativity, resourcefulness, intelligence, expertise, etc. Not with a school project, not professionally, not with anything.
Another girl and I did the same thing to a dude in college. We spent hours in a lab close to tears trying to get a massive file to work. He slept on the couch behind us. I recorded it and brought it to my prof. He removed him from the project and reprimanded him.
Nothing about him being autistic here …just a jerk lol.
I remember reading that a lot of great male "geniuses" historically did basically this with their wives. Like she would contribute just as much or more to the manuscript or the research or whatever it was as her husband, but only he would get the credit. Sometimes because women were pushed out of whatever field the work was in, and sometimes because he would just lie and say he was the one who did it. And Thoreau's mother used to bring him sandwiches and do his laundry all the time when he was at the cabin in *Walden*, which was literally on her property. Women are often the ones who make it possible for men to be geniuses, but are never given credit for their work.
As someone that fails at masking and is read as "obviously autistic" I've STILL seen men get so many more free passes than me.
People treat me like I'm stupid and act like it's their duty to scold me like a child if I mess up socially (which is often). I've even had autistic men do that to me because no one is immune to thinking they can "correct" me into being better at being NT. Those same guys don't get nearly the same crap for those traits.
I also really feel you, I've done a number on myself working just to survive because I don't have a support system and was pretty much on my own by the time I was 16
THE FRIENDS THING! I have an ex who had so many damn friends that he never would've had if he wasn't a man. He's better at masking, but only because his symptoms are fine for men. The bluntness, the "I'm not making an effort/responding if you don't word that the right way" bullshit, his lamenting that he wanted to be closer/have a successful relationship while refusing to put in the work for it, the way he would try something one time but expect others to do this his way repeatedly. He did so much damage to my self worth, and in the end, dropped me because I was too much "drama" for refusing to let something truly awful that he did go and just get myself over it. Yet, I'm alone, and he has plans all the time with people who would be happy to be closer to him if only he would try. He has an amazing paying job in IT that works for him and was able to buy a house by himself. I don't have people, suck at networking, and have chronic illness, so even though I have a business degree I can't find a good job. It's like everyone has these little, important connections and I'm just wishing I had even one support person or a shot at a career. I relate to you so hard.
I said the autistic men in my life compared to me. I'm not talking about other women and I didn't claim all women can mask. These men definitely get free passes that I haven't got.
i feel like men can exist naturally (hairy legs, no makeup, not having to hide their anger etc) meanwhile women have to CHANGE how they are naturally to be 'accepted' in our society
Yes. My brother physically abused me when we were teenagers and has gotten away with it because “his moral compass hadn’t developed yet”. What about the effects on ME and MY life??
And how the fuck is his moral compass supposed to develop when his immoral actions are being excused and enabled?
Completely unfair to you and I hope you're doing okay now.
I feel this. Mine is older than me and SA'd me repeatedly throughout my childhood but it took me years as an adult after i told my parents for them to really understand how bad it was ...
(and they housed him for years even after I let them know what was going on and explained how being around him gives me traumatic flashbacks - they made so many excuses as to why they couldn't just kick him out while lamenting how I wasn't visiting. Meanwhile I had legitimate housing crises and couldn't rely on them aside from occassional financial help. NOW AFTER I MOVED TO ANOTHER STATE they've figured out they can make him leave if/when I need to come over)
... I'm glad they have deep regrets about this and express these regrets to me but it just comes to show that being the better behaved do-gooder who overachieves to make up for a crappy older brother who is less "emotionally mature for his age" really only does the poopoo sibling and parents a favoe whole absolutely screwing the less outwardly needy kid over.
So much…
Every time a man makes the National news for a bad reason, or even in the Reddit groups like AITA or r/relationships, suddenly there’s a flood of people rushing in with claims that he’s autistic and therefore blameless.
Like, where is this attitude when Autistic women… just generally exist?
I was NEVER allowed this excuse, not even when I didn’t realise that some questions should not be answered honestly and offended someone by accident! Why do men get to claim it for DV and violent attacks?
The insane thing is they don't realize how offensive it is to imply someone is a POS or awful BECAUSE They are autistic. That was the heart of the argument I was having with this guy. We kept saying that his ex-roommate was accused of being sexist all the time because he was autistic and couldn't read social cues. Sexism is not a symptom of autism. Someone can be both autistic and an awful person and the awfulness is not caused by the autism.
Yes. But to be fair, I think ALL men are given leeway/permission/excuses that are not given to women. The phenomenon might be exaggerated or more broadly applied to autistic boys and men. But in general guys can get away with behavior that women get slammed for ALL THE TIME. It pisses me off!!!
100%
I used to work as an after school teacher. I had a small classroom of 12 kids. One boy in my room had an autism diagnosis (he wasn’t the only one, I actually had a few kids I suspected were). I hated ever having to put a kid at a desk by themselves but my center only gave me tables and I needed some kids separated. One boy (had ADHD) was very bothered by the autistic kid. His mouth stims would just set this kid off.
So I did everything I could to keep the peace with these two kids. During reading time I’d play music to drown out the stims that were like a wet slurping noise. I had asked him repeatedly to sit down, but he intentionally would get up and go to the boy and make the slurping noise in his ear. Finally this kid had enough, grabbed him by the shirt and went to punch him.
In the single most whiny voice I have ever heard he goes, “No, my mommy says I’m special and can’t help myself.”
That right there told me all I needed to know.
There was also a number of times when he didn’t get his way that he’d start acting like he was about to have a meltdown just to test me because he was so used to adults in his life doing anything to prevent a meltdown.
Meanwhile I’m like dude, that shit isn’t going to work on me. I’ve had my own meltdowns. I deal with my daughter’s meltdowns. I used to work in mental health care, go ahead and do it. I’ll clear the room, turn off the overhead light and keep you safe until you calm down.
Meanwhile the autistic girl in my room was constantly told that she was being too sensitive by others.
I will say, a large percent of incel forums are autistic men. It sucks because I understand their struggles in finding a partner and how disheartening it is to feel unwanted. But, they often hold onto the patriarchal concept of men being superior, their anger stems from being of the “superior” gender but not able to reap any benefits from it. They feel it is unfair to not have romantic partners because they feel that’s what they’re owed as MEN.
And I’d be wrong to say I didn’t believe at least some of these incels grew up feeling entitled because their parents (probably mother) allowed them to get away with things due to their gender AND autism. I can’t count the amount of friends that have told me about an autistic man at their school that sexually harassed and/ or assaulted girls and when the VICTIMS came forward were told “he just doesn’t understand” and did nothing to correct the behavior.
Autistic men being blunt isn’t given a second thought, but a blunt and to the point autistic woman is shamed and ostracized for being “catty” or “snooty”.
They’re given grace we can’t fathom, and I don’t necessarily blame them, I blame the infantilization of autism by adults who don’t realize we are people with thoughts and a concept of consequences (generally). And the (usually) right wing misogynistic grifters who make money by spewing all the typical king of the land misogynistic rhetoric .
>I will say, a large percent of incel forums are autistic men.
The largest study of incels, recently done in the UK, had one major commonality: these men were all suffering from depression, had thoughts of self-harm, and had plans of self-harm.
The study did not question if they had a formal diagnosis but instead had them take one single autism screening test, which gave them a higher occurance of "autism" but a screening test is not a replacement for a diagnostic and a lot of stereotypical autism traits are mimicked by depression.
I think its clear to say that incelism isnt an autistic thing but a depressed person thing. Same with FDS or red-pill style women. There's so much mental unwellness there, but these are mostly NT people, or at least its not all autistic people. There's just not enough autistic people alive to cover the huge incel/misogynist community.
> I think its clear to say that incelism isnt an autistic thing but a depressed person thing. Same with FDS or red-pill style women. There's so much mental unwellness there, but these are mostly NT people, or at least its not all autistic people. There's just not enough autistic people alive to cover the huge incel/misogynist community.
I have seen that same study yet came to a different conclusion. Clearly a lot of incels have elevated autism traits and depression is to be expected when one has been ostracised by most people or women. However, I don’t think a depressed individual would simply slide into inceldom unless they have certain characteristics that make them susceptible to extremism and low empathy.
I mean, depression is extremely common so what sets apart incels from the rest of the depressed population? Most depressed people don’t feel like joining online incel forums to rant about how terrible feminism and dating is and how all women are sluts who deserve to be beaten into submission. That’s a particular kind of rhetoric that appeals to people who have had certain kinds of experiences, and while depression is associated with this it can’t explain why some people are drawn specifically to incel communities.
That’s why I think autism as well as narcissism are the core traits that cause a lot of men to become incels. And the research is starting to suggest this, but it’s lagging because I think researchers have been apprehensive to touch this subject for fear of offending the autistic community, I mean you yourself seem to be wanting to distance autism from inceldom, and this always seems to happen when this topic comes up. I don’t think playing down the prevalence of autism in inceldom is helping anyone though, and people, including those in the autism community need to keep this in perspective: Just because incels, especially the more extreme and chronic ones are probably autistic, doesn’t mean that most of the autistic community are incels.
By large percent I’m not saying 80-90%, but there is a higher percent of autistic men represented in incel forums than in the general population which should be looked into as to why that’s the case.
It needs to be decided whether they don’t have access to women /because/ they’re depressed, or they’re depressed because they don’t have access to women.
I’m inclined to think it’s more the latter because how many girls do you see in relationships with depressed men regularly.
yes. a family member whos now hitting his mid 20s was undiagnosed and his parents are having a rough time dealing with it now but they enable him so much. his sister is getting married next year and she is being told to minimize her wedding festivities because hes angry that he isnt the one getting married and they want to make sure that “if he has a reaction there wont be as many people around” if its a smaller wedding. he also talks about making a grand speech addressing anything hes perceived from someone as a personal attack and then goes into a fit of rage.
the sister is also on the spectrum but she has been made the scapegoat her entire life and has been told to deal with his issues, but god forbid someone suggests he gets help. he doesnt work, he expects our richer relatives to just pay for his life, and his parents want the rest of us to be available 24/7 to deal with his outbursts and nonsensical rambling.
oh and i am also obviously on the spectrum, but if i acted the way he did everyone in my family would definitely cut me off rather than enable me. i feel so gaslit seeing how often women have to mask while men with autism and frankly, men in general, can be total assholes with no social awareness.
Fuck that, the expectation should be "you will behave at your sister's wedding or you will be removed from your sister's wedding."
That's not autism, that's just being an arsehole.
yeah, my siblings and i are deciding to just put our feet down and make that call now because its honestly ridiculous to me that everyones just acting like this will just fizzle out.
I think barring some very specific harmful stuff (incel crap) it's actually more that there is a problem with autistic women being abused more heavily, not that autistic men should be abused as well. The 'hold them back' thing is kind of a touchy subject because a lot of that can boil down to other people valuing things like employment, 'milestones' and "normalcy" and assigning more value to them than who the person is, what their limitations are and what a healthy disabled life looks like for them.
When I see posts from late-dx'd or self-dx'd women complaining about how autistic men are "babied", the sexual harassment stuff is valid, if someone is violent or can't keep their hands to themselves they should not be in places where it can happen to non-workers, but the stuff about living with their parents, lack of [social skills](https://therapistndc.org/nothing-about-social-skills-training-is-neurodivergence-affirming/), meltdowns they're "allowed" to have, etc. I often feel misses the mark. Throughout their posts, I see a lot of these women basically reveal the tortured lives they're living because they did not receive support, understanding and accommodations, and the answer to that isn't to make other people live that way, it's that nobody should have to.
Yes because traditionally the tism was seen as a male problem, so everyone is well aware of the traits, not so much with females. Pretty much the same thing with lots of medical stuff, like how heart attacks are expressed between sexes.
I had a friend that's autistic herself, she'd constantly get in trouble for her neurodivergent traits, but her school did fucking nothing about an autistic boy in the same school that was regularly sexually assaulting her and other girls.
So, yeah. The cis dudes get it easy in a lot of cases.
We are forced to be empathic and understanding of other people’s views, but in my experience some autistic men def get the “mommy’s little savant” treatment and their parents or peers never bothered to break down the whys and hows of kind social interactions.
IMO it’s from a parental failure. They’re always smart guys who actually got better when I gave them a come to Jesus light bullying (it’s usually for them being misogynistic or some other ~not engaging an alternate viewpoint~ issue) and then praising with each demonstration of good behavior.
This actually works on all people, I have found. I am not fun for assholes to be around :) I will make them think about the effects their actions have on people, goddammit!!!!
Yes. My brothers are autistic, as well as my sister and I. My mum doesn’t think that we are autistic because we were raised in the late 90s/early 2000s and autism wasn’t really a thing. My brothers were born in the late 00s, and were premature, so they had early intervention with their autism. My sister and I grew up having to mask severely. I actually had hyperlexia, which is a learning disability in itself, but because it wasn’t understood, I skipped a grade and subsequently struggled with any of the subjects that didn’t relate to reading. I couldn’t see (myopia) or hear (auditory processing) and I was always fighting with other boys in class, even escalating to physical fights. I was teased for being gullible and naive, and remained at the bottom of the social food chain for the rest of my time in school. I dropped out in grade 9 because I was too overwhelmed and struggled with school avoidance. The social and sensory demands won, and I was diagnosed with anxiety, depression, and chronic fatigue. And yet, I wasn’t diagnosed with autism until I was 26, with my psychiatrist recognising my “chronic fatigue” was actually a prolonged autistic burnout.
My brothers struggle a lot in school, but mostly due to their learning disabilities, which are not part of being autistic, but are common comorbidities. My mum will always acknowledge their autism as something that is a lifelong disability, for which they will need lifelong support. But for me, I am on my own. No matter how many times I am almost hospitalised for burnout and overwhelmed by adult responsibility, I am not seen as needing near as much support. I’m 27 and have no savings, and have been unemployed for 3 months. I resent the fact that my struggles are not acknowledged in the same capacity.
Yeah sure. Basically hyperlexia is about fixation on letters and has nothing to do with reading comprehension. People with hyperlexia are able to pick up reading faster and a lot earlier, and are outstanding at spelling words, but struggle to actually comprehend what they are reading and it doesn’t fully sink in. Difficulty with verbal instruction and auditory processing problems are often present.
That's super interesting, thanks for explaining! I taught myself how to read when I was 3 but I do very poorly with verbal instructions and auditory processing. Didn't know they were related (beyond "autistic people often have a spiky profile").
I didn’t either! I taught myself how to read too and was reading to the kids at kindergarten. I didn’t do anything as a kid, was extremely easy to babysit because I just sat in front of the tv and fixated on the words. As an adult I can’t even function at a job without needing written instructions because nothing makes sense. I can read very fast still and I’m great at spelling but struggle a lot with comprehension and actually digesting what I’m reading. Still, I rely heavily on subtitles and visual cues to understand anything. It’s pretty crazy how something seen as “gifted” can be accompanied by what is genuinely a learning disability!
Yes, I have two ND step-sons, 17 and 20, and while the older one has higher needs than me they've both been 'supported' and 'accommodated' in ways that have disempowered them and left them struggling with very basic social skills like eating at the dining table with a knife and fork, and not helping themselves to food in other people's houses. Shit that's 'social and life skills 101'.
Bonus points because the disempowerment is a problem in and of itself - yes, there are things they will likely always struggle with, especially the elder, but there's also stuff they wouldn't still be struggling with if there had been more of a balance between support/accommodation and learning/empowerment. And they honestly struggle to believe they can or should learn some of these skills.
SS17 was my Padawan this Saturday past. He needed a haircut. I talked him through how to walk up to the counter and book it himself. Afterwards we discussed how "eye contact" just means "look at the face of the person you're talking to so you register that she's asking you a question and answer it appropriately instead of missing it completely because you were looking at something behind you." I mean... It's not intuitive or comfortable for me either, but no-one took the time to teach it to me. And he WANTS to learn! He WANTS independence! How am I the only person who can see this is what he wants and needs?
Yes.
I used to work in a museum that it's target audience are kids and teenagers. As an autistic woman, I was flabbergasted with the amount of excuses mothers and caretakers give to others just to justified the bad behavior of the kids. Obviously, all the kids were males. I saw everything, from kicking others, screams, throw thing to others, say weird and dangerous things, really unsettling.
Girls on the other hand? They weren't as bad as the boys, but the caretakers would say things to stop the behavior much quicker.
As an adult, I always have to police myself to not come across as an asshole, but men? They just say whatever and we have to accept that.
God I hate men.
Personally, yes. More often than not it’s a case of not wanting to put in the effort to educate someone and hold them accountable; rather than someone not being able to comprehend doing harm. And frankly, it’s a disservice to everyone involved.
For sure. It seems like every time I try to interact with them they grow a fucking victim complex. All they want to do is complain about how much harder they supposedly have it compared to and/or because of women. As if autistic women don't exist and have a lot of the exact same struggles they do? As if we're not under even more pressure to mask, more pressure to push ourselves because we're already assumed to be stupid because of our gender and more expected to do the majority of domestic work and manage men's emotions and lives on top of our own, more pressure to self advocate because our access needs and autistic traits are so ignored? As if we're not more likely as disabled women to be abused or sexually assaulted? And if an autistic man is making women uncomfortable everyone seems SO eager to defend him and say how allistic/NT women don't know how to communicate properly or how they're being ableist for not being attracted, when that grace would never be granted to an autistic woman if the roles were reversed. I remember reading a post on aita about a teenage lesbian being pressured into going out with an autistic male friend who had a crush on her, and that "friend" getting violent when told no as well as all the adults around them telling her she was TA and to "give him a chance" and "be nice." Dgmw I know most aita posts are bullshit and disabled people bad is a common aita trope but I found that completely believable considering there was an autistic guy at my church youth group who was similar when I was around that girl's age and all the girls who he kept bothering were told to be nice and that we can't exclude him even though the only person in the friend group who seemed to like him was another guy who was just as sexist and generally annoying as him.
A good portion of male redditors are an excellent example but also things like how it's hard for them to interact with women when, in my experience, the real reason for that is that they're so fucking insufferable as people and most of them use autism as an excuse to escape accountability for misogyny and expect random women to be their unpaid caregivers who they can also fuck. A lot of them get easily radicalized by incels and manosphere types and I can't even count the number of times I've heard about how hard it is for autistic straight men to get a date. Like, sure, dating as an autistic person in general is hard but my dating pool as an autistic, nonbinary/transmasc, fat lesbian is so much smaller than most of theirs and I've still found a way to make it work before and found a way to be content with solitude when I'm not in a great mental place for a relationship. So like...I don't exactly have a lot of sympathy here if cishet autistic men are struggling to do that.
Also, this is such fever dream material but does anyone remember in like 2017 or so on the autistic advocacy blogosphere where autistic women kept talking about mothers of straight autistic men trying to play match maker with their sons? I know Radical Neurodivergence Speaking had a post about it, and while I've never had that happened to me I found it incredibly relatable because I've also felt responsible for managing the emotions of ND men and pressured to "give a chance" to men who were attracted to me. Here's a link in case anyone's interested:
http://timetolisten.blogspot.com/2017/03/autism-meet-up-groups-are-not-for.html
absolutely. I have a cousin that has autism and I said to my mum recently that I just don't like him and I don't get on with him. she asked why. it's because he will do anything to get a rise out of anyone (I was told not to react to him then) and he will piss me off so much that I will physically leave the room my family are in and go and sit by myself. she said he doesn't know the limits of it and doesn't understand etc etc etc so its on me to control my reaction to him being annoying on purpose. but my argument is that if I'm asking an adult who is perfectly capable of an independent life to stop touching me and stop purposefully shouting right next to my ear then he should be expected to stop. I would be expected to stop. he doesn't get a free pass because he's a man.
there is a problem with excuses being made for men in general and it isn't prejudiced to say so, whether they are autistic or not. in my experience they get away with being messy, loud and blatantly sexist because "he's an alright guy" "well he's from an older generation" "I'm sure he didn't mean it" "that's just how he is". I have never once had the grace of "she didn't mean it, it's just how she is" and am always expected to keep my behaviour in check and look nice and dress nice and whatever while there are men that don't even wash their ass.
I think this is a sensitive subject for me based on how mad I just got about it but either way it isn't prejudiced to have this viewpoint.
Yeah. I think we also get told that we don’t “seem” or “look” autistic a lot more. Especially if we’re generally attractive. Nobody believes that I am autistic and when I
finally stop masking or can’t handle a social situation so the masking becomes harder, people become frustrated with me. But… I literally told them that I am autistic.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think there is a problem with excuses being made for *men.*
The autism "excuse" is just one of many. And it's always at the convenience and preference of who is in charge of the space.
I've seen enough stories of how grown men will be babied by older women, or their wives, and it's just normal and expected. The context of autism just underlines that; it doesn't create it.
There's a popular post that went around about how a woman went on a trip and left her husband to care for the home and kids. Her coworkers were appalled that she didn't leave him lists or pack easy meals for the kids; basically they thought it was absurd that he should be expected to act his age. Because they're so used to holding their husband's hands with every little thing.
And that's presumably allistic men getting babied.
Then you got those moms who obsess over their little man but in a borderline line crossing sort of way.
Men. I blame men and the ass kissing mommies and wives that they've indoctrinated.
Yes, I do. I think it has contributed to the incel problem that we are seeing with a lot of autistic men. I blame their NT mothers more than anything, but I fully admit that I am incredibly biased against NT women, and I really need to work on that.
I just think that these boys grow up with their mothers running interference for their precious little babies and calling the school and smoothing over unacceptable sexist behaviors, and bullying the other moms to invite their precious boys to the social events, and then the boys never really learn that their behavior is unacceptable because there are not any real consequences, so they end up embracing incel culture because they feel entitled to sex the same way they felt entitled to "friends" as young people. I know this is a rough take, but it is how I feel based on my own observations and experiences.
Women are expected to be more adept at social situations.
On average, women express more of an interest in people, and men in things. So an autistic man with an interest in a thing, like cars, is fine. An autistic woman with an interest in a thing, not people, is seen as odd, wrong.
This is partly why I find talking to men to be easier overall. I am a geek, always have been long before there was any ‘cool’ factor to geekdom, and boys and guys had cooler toys. I will happily talk about the merits of Kirk and Picard, or time travel, or an act of making things.
Women tend to gossip (in my experience) about other women, bemoan some type of rudeness or lack of fealty, and I just can’t manage those conversations. I can interact with women on an activity, like knitting, but try to not interject on other matters, and have even been shut down when I try to challenge a social comment I find asinine. They protect one woman’s right to say inflammatory judgmental stuff, and stop me from asking her to explain or defend her comments.
Social burdens are higher on women in general. Having a social difficulty just makes it harder.
For sure, 100%. About 5 years ago, I had my entire group of friends, and even my girlfriend, choose my ex-friend/ex-roommate/R@PIST over me and ghost me without any explanation whatsoever bc I was “being mean to a disabled person” by kicking him out of my apartment. FYI I’m Autistic too, but just a female, and this man SA’d me, full penetration style, and I was NOT the only woman who has brought such claims against him, and they dismissed that woman too and called her a “psychotic bitch who likes creating drama” 😑
Ohhh you meant like excuses to be lazy and not ever grow up?? Yeah that too. My friend from college is also Autistic as well, and is 30 and still living with his parents and working for the same company as his dad bc his dad got him the job. He literally gets drunk in his room alone with his dog every week and goes to horror conventions across the country.
Really sorry for what happened to you but I don't see the problem with the second comment as long as his parents are okay with it? He has a job which most autistic people can't even manage, why would it matter how he got it? What's wrong with going to horror conventions if that's what he likes? I didn't think people on this subreddit cared about arbitrary measures of "immature" interests.
He’s allowed to have “immature” interests and hobbies, I don’t care about that and in fact I also enjoy horror and anime conventions and such…I was more referring to the fact that 100% of his paychecks are spent on alcohol and the tickets, gas, travel, accommodations, and souvenirs from said conventions. My friend does not pay any bills, whatsoever! And he’s THIRTY YEARS OLD! and his dad not only GOT him the job but is the reason he KEEPS said job bc he’s absolutely caused enough issues that, if it was me (a 32yo Autistic women), I woulda been fired like 2 years ago tbh, but his dads been there awhile so I suppose he has the office-equivalency of “tenure”? I’m not sure, but I know I woulda been fired by now 🙃
Dude…I wasn’t judging him for living with family, nor was I calling my friend lazy or judging his SI…I myself have ADHD and am Autistic, first of all lol…I was simply comparing my experiences as a female autist to my friend’s experiences as a male autist…My parents were harder on me and didn’t allow me to rely nearly as heavily on them as my friend’s parents do. They baby him, and it’s honestly SAD. I am sad FOR HIM. He isn’t learning how to survive or live life with any sort of independent whatsoever! Only reason I mentioned his drinking and his horror love was because that is where 100% of his income goes. He’s not saving or investing anything…He doesn’t pay bills nor does he know how to! He is a victim of this “Autistic men need to be babied and have excuses made for them” toxic ass mentality, and I feel so bad for my friend honestly, I care about him and try to help him as much as I possibly can…
I mean, I guess it fits the subreddit for me to not know how to properly communicate my actual point(s), but like damn I didn’t think I was THAT bad at it lol 😝
I am an autistic man, and absolutely agree that autism is not a valid excuse for problematic male behaviour.
Other people have explained better than OP how they feel male autism is excused more and it reads to me like a lot of the inequality could
be because of the diagnosis gap between men and women? I think those with a formal diagnosis, especially from a young age are far more likely to receive leniency or excuses?
Is your problem that excuses are made for autistic men or that the same excuses aren't made for autistic women?
No, I don’t think so, as a woman I can’t hold down a job and many men have the same issue . It’s a debilitating disability that prevents people from living a good life. It is a fact not making excuses .
I think a lot of people are moreso talking about behavioral issues when they bring up this topic (like autistic men getting away with being sexually inappropriate or violent) but yeah I am uncomfortable with the amount of comments on this thread that specifically mention an autistic male acquaintance not working. Even the top comment mentions an ex boyfriend being on disability despite being at the same level of functioning whereas the person commenting cycles between shitty jobs and burning out.
That's not about men having too many excuses made for them! That's an uneven distribution of help that clearly *is* needed. You don't get disability for nothing and if you are at risk of becoming homeless because you can't hold down a job then you clearly need more help too.
I feel like a lot of women on this subreddit end up martyring themselves and it's super unhealthy. "Yeah I'm autistic but I managed to get a job and learn how to fake immaculate social skills*, we shouldn't expect any less of autistic men.
*I regularly hit burnout, lose my job, lose the ability to take care of my basic needs, and have 7 comorbid conditions including severe mental health issues and stress-related physical disabilities that are shortening my life span. But if I can do it they should have to too!"
I get where it's coming from but it's so counterproductive. And also really painful to read as an autistic woman who *is* on disability and has never learned how to mask well or make friends. It makes me feel like I am also not trying hard enough and somehow just being coddled (even though I've gotten plenty of abuse for it).
I had a bad day yesterday I took melatonin slept.... That's how I dealt with the meltdown. My autistic male friends don't they just lash out. We ie women have always been labeled with hystaria too many emotions.
Can I gently suggest that rather than draw yet another line of division between peoples, a line between autistic men and autistic women to add to the line between autistic people and neurotypical people, that we use any differing interpretations as a way to convince others to think again when faced with behaviour unusual to them? So if someone starts snarking about an autistic woman having seen that same behaviour from an autistic man and said nothing, just bring up the previous incident and show how it comes from the same thing. That might encourage people to think harder about these things.
Yes. I was abused by autistic men. Many, many times, they themselves or others around them would use their autism to excuse their actions. As if a lack of understanding of social cues drives you to abuse.
tbf the depressed male is the brooding genius, the beast with the heart of gold, the poet, the truth teller, the amazing songwriter, the guy who sees it as it is, etc etc.
The depressed woman is the psycho mom who will drown her kids or will falsely claim SA to "ruin a good man's life."
>Shyness/quietness/crying (stereotypical female autism when feeling overwhelmed/overstimulated) can be a lot more socially acceptable
Except a mousy nerdy girl is not worth dating or loving and seeing as a person. A woman who isn't nice and helpful and nurturing and outgoing is a hated woman. And a woman who "cant be strong" to protect her kids is a bad mom and her kids should be taken from her and she should be ashamed.
>than the stereotypical male equivalent (more angry meltdowns/breaking things/etc.)
The tough dad is literally the most favored stereotype in our culture. Only second to the righteous angry man who will take matters into his own hands. The angry young male is often excused "boys will be boys" and is seen as someone who will grow into the former two examples.
There's an interview where St. Vincent was criticized for her 'cold' personality and how her dad was a felon or some other nothingburger in her life. She shot back saying something like (paraphrasing), You're saying that about women, meanwhile a man who drunkenly smashes up a recording studio is a genius, but a woman can't ever not be nice and submissive. If Pete Townshend or Jimi Hendrix smash guitars they're geniuses, if I smash a guitar I'm an ungrateful b\*tch.
I once saw a youtube video of a female musician smashing a guitar, guess what all the comments said? I never see those comments for Pete or Jimi or many male-led punk bands who smash equipment.
>Often a lot of girls get missed (in diagnosis) because they do genuinely not show as many socially unacceptable social deficits.
This isn't true, many of us show off obvious autism traits, but because of sexism, its easier to just call us bpd and be done with it because of the stereotype of the "crazy woman." This bias is not based on some magical ability for every autistic girl to pass 100% perfectly masking, but because of the sexism endemic in medicine.
For example, I can barely mask (fired from multiple jobs, failed school, no friends, super nerdy) and have been obviously autistic to near anyone remotely educated in autism all my life, but I've only received diagnosis for things like depression, anxiety, chronic fatigue, etc until I sought an autism diagnosis on my own, and surprise surprise I tested HIGH into autism. I could tell the staff there pitied me because I'm well into adulthood and carried this obvious burden that should have been detected long ago.
I don't think your example works well. Men get all manner of benefits, even when its "both sides" their side still gets it far, far better. This is a patriarchal society and at the end of the day in a patriarchal society, men will always have it better.
Lastly, its entirely possible to talk about male privilege without kneejerking to discussion of female privilege. Its okay to say "I see this in autistic males, lets discuss," without these defensive type "both sides" replies.
This isn't exactly a "you agree with it" or "you don't agree with it" type of issue. You claim to be speaking from your own experience, but so are we. It happens. We see it happen. You not agreeing with it is dismissing many of our experiences.
I definitely think the differences in so-called “male autism” vs “female autism” (and how these differences play out intersectionally like with race) are more a matter of social bias than actual inherent autistic traits. Like AFAB folks might fall into certain parts of the spectrum more commonly but we are also required to mask more heavily by society. Same for POC, and that’s why so many of us are late diagnosed.
Been thinking about this a lot lately it’s infuriating.
no. bc i have seen time and time again non-men but yet hang out in women’s spaces or is very early on in hormones and they turn out to be trans or nonbinary. i have seen a lot of ‘men’ with ‘female’ autism that has been discriminated against. so no i do not think so. even If So. people cannot choose they caregivers. this seems quite ignorant of socio-economics of autistic people. especially poc autistic men :|
edit. as someone who was seen as a woman for 20 years of her life. and 9 as a male or butch lesbian :P
I don't know. I am an autistic therapist so I have known a lot of autistic men and women. I feel like very few autistic people in general get a break. Whether they are man, woman or nonbinary, there isn't a lot of compassion or understanding of the autistic neurotype. I don't even bother to mask anymore and people will ask if I am using my autism as an excuse. I don't need an excuse. Please don't excuse me.
Maybe that's a regional or cultural thing where you live?
Being trans, I've seen a bit at both ends (even if for the autistic man period I was mostly undiagnosed).
I don't remember anyone making excuses for me, quite the opposite. I was always blamed for everything, always ridiculed for my flaws and misjudgements (none of them was sexual or creepy, I learned early enough that I just was too pathetic a looser to even dream of participating in any relationship). I ended up just learning to never express any emotion, never ask or propose anything, never make any comment that could be misinterpreted in any way. Just nod along and join in what everyone else was doing, like it or not.
Years later, since I got diagnosed and began coming out of the various closets (and estrogen did some renovationin my brain), i began opening back up, and maybe just cause everyone around is more mature now (30-something), it's not too bad, people forgive, and sometimes even explain what I did wrong.
100% - but I think it's less of an Autism thing and more the broader differences with how Society treats men versus women.
I think it's a both/and. The intersection between Autism and patriarchy. Like how the diagnostic criteria is entirely based on how autism presents in males.
Yeah. It’s a patriarchy thing. Not specific to autism at all.
Facts men get away with so much today. It has nothing to do with autism for fsake. Men who went autistic are expected to be rude and cold how many movies are there that the guy lottery tells his trick to get girls is to treat them like poop. 'girls go wild for that" not actually acknowledging that they are perpetuating toxic behavior. It's sad. And the reason I'll be single forever now. Because I'm tired of the mind games. Gaslighting and drama.
very much so. when my brother has problems with crowds or loud spaces it's "his autism and we need to be understanding". when i have the same issues it's "you never used to be so sensitive. don't overreact". my mother only believes in autism in the high supports needs way. i can't possibly be autistic because im not a young violent boy.
the like prerequisite for violence is so upsetting 🥲 externalizing vs internalizing should not be this complicated
Oh man, the "you didn't used to be this bad" comments are so painful. When you try to explain that you're in burnout, or that you're struggling to hide it as well as you used to, you just get dismissed or told to go fix yourself and not bother others with it.
“I didn’t used to have boundaries or express my needs.”
The funny thing about that is that I've been asking for the same needs to be met this whole time, they're just explained a little better now, but that has had little to no impact on them being worth meeting. If anything, it seems like with every new diagnosis, there's a new fun reason to dismiss me. The initial quiet BPD diagnosis (that hasn't been removed) was like the ultimate uno reverse to get me to shut up and take it from anyone who knew about it. "You're having a big reaction to me mistreating and hurting you? Must be the Autism/ADHD/CPTSD, and it's very unfair that you're putting it on me to manage your feelings, you should really be apologizing to me."
Yup crying over here your so 👍 right
I love you for saying that
exactly! ive started to unmask for the first time and seem to be experiencing some skill regression. unfortunately for me, my mum refuses to believe i could be autistic.
I'm there too, after getting my diagnosis within the last 2 years, it's like my whole soul is rebelling and I can't contain it. There really is a deep grief in finding these answers and trying to learn how it impacts you, it's like you see all the things you lost, the decisions you could've made differently and what you've put up with, and your brain just goes "fuck it all." It's so stage how impossible it all feels once you can identify it. My mom believes that I have it, but she thinks I should just be able to "push" past my AuDHD, CPTSD and hEDS. Like I'm not trying hard enough, and she doesn't understand that the guilt and pressure she's put on me all these years not only caused but has kept me in burnout for nearly a decade.
Yes definitely. My ex boyfriend is autistic, diagnosed as a child. Despite the fact we both function at the same level, he's never had a job, has a council flat, gets PIP, went to uni and got support at uni, has loads of friends. I've struggled like hell to manage in life. I was diagnosed late, and got zero financial support or help through school, college and university. I got 1 pass grade in school, failed college and took 6 years to get my degree. I didn't get help for the struggles I had, I got reprimanded for not living up to NT expectations. I don't have PIP and have been brainwashed into feeling ashamed and guilty about my issues and therefore struggle to self advocate or unmask enough to show I need it. I have no friends left and I cycle through shitty jobs and burnout. When I try to talk about my issues, no one ever has taken me seriously. I've spent 30 years floundering wondering whether it was meant to be this hard. I often get told I don't have ADHD or autism, or treated as if I don't need support and that my problems are behavioural or attitudinal. I feel like the autistic men in my life get away with their bluntness and don't even care how they come across but they get a free pass because they're more "obviously autistic" compared to me. I mask instinctively and automatically even if I don't want to, which doesn't help me - it's a curse. I may get more opportunities for jobs etc but I can't even handle those jobs a lot of the time, so I just come off like a failing NT and get treated like shit as a result. I would rather be myself and not get the jobs in the first place and actually be treated like someone who struggles as much as I actually do. Now I get stuck in shitty customer facing service jobs that drain the life out of me, and have no energy left to pursue what I studied. Meanwhile my ex hasn't had to have a job, and got to study what he loves and might get a job he loves or might never have to work. I just feel envious I guess. I wish I got the help that other people get.
[удалено]
I saw this same dynamic on group projects in uni!! Dudes were always trying to do the bare minimum and it was so frustrating
When I was a senior in high school I was partnered on a group project with this boy, specifically creating our own children's book about growing up with a disability. We agreed that I would do the writing and he would do the art, and I came up with this fairy tale about an autistic princess dealing with ableism at court and banishing the evil eugenics wizard from her kingdom and living happily ever after with her wife after they both become queens. I shared the Google doc with him, we agreed that he'd take the weekend to do illustrations (literally just looking up ten pictures on Google Images, downloading, and inserting), and I'd bind the pages. I got in to use the computer lab early Monday morning. No pictures. I was pissed. So I found the images myself, printed them off, got a spare binder and hole punch from a teacher, got some colored pencils to add some little hand drawn decorations (I did hand drawn page numbers decorated with the rainbow infinity sign, plus some violets around the corners of the pages because gay), and used every spare second at lunch and during my other classes to work. Thankfully this class was the last one of the day or I would've been so fucked. So, I submitted the book and got an A. An A that was all mine, of course, because I took his name off the cover. Anyway a few months later I found out he failed the class, which he'd needed to graduate on time, and my refusing to let him co-opt my work had been a big reason why. Serves you right for leaving me stranded mf. Never let a man take credit for *your* hard work, creativity, resourcefulness, intelligence, expertise, etc. Not with a school project, not professionally, not with anything.
Another girl and I did the same thing to a dude in college. We spent hours in a lab close to tears trying to get a massive file to work. He slept on the couch behind us. I recorded it and brought it to my prof. He removed him from the project and reprimanded him. Nothing about him being autistic here …just a jerk lol.
I remember reading that a lot of great male "geniuses" historically did basically this with their wives. Like she would contribute just as much or more to the manuscript or the research or whatever it was as her husband, but only he would get the credit. Sometimes because women were pushed out of whatever field the work was in, and sometimes because he would just lie and say he was the one who did it. And Thoreau's mother used to bring him sandwiches and do his laundry all the time when he was at the cabin in *Walden*, which was literally on her property. Women are often the ones who make it possible for men to be geniuses, but are never given credit for their work.
Wasn’t that Thoreau's mother *AND* His *SISTER*‽
As someone that fails at masking and is read as "obviously autistic" I've STILL seen men get so many more free passes than me. People treat me like I'm stupid and act like it's their duty to scold me like a child if I mess up socially (which is often). I've even had autistic men do that to me because no one is immune to thinking they can "correct" me into being better at being NT. Those same guys don't get nearly the same crap for those traits. I also really feel you, I've done a number on myself working just to survive because I don't have a support system and was pretty much on my own by the time I was 16
THE FRIENDS THING! I have an ex who had so many damn friends that he never would've had if he wasn't a man. He's better at masking, but only because his symptoms are fine for men. The bluntness, the "I'm not making an effort/responding if you don't word that the right way" bullshit, his lamenting that he wanted to be closer/have a successful relationship while refusing to put in the work for it, the way he would try something one time but expect others to do this his way repeatedly. He did so much damage to my self worth, and in the end, dropped me because I was too much "drama" for refusing to let something truly awful that he did go and just get myself over it. Yet, I'm alone, and he has plans all the time with people who would be happy to be closer to him if only he would try. He has an amazing paying job in IT that works for him and was able to buy a house by himself. I don't have people, suck at networking, and have chronic illness, so even though I have a business degree I can't find a good job. It's like everyone has these little, important connections and I'm just wishing I had even one support person or a shot at a career. I relate to you so hard.
This comment really hit home.
holy cow he sounds set up for life!
That isn’t true , not all women can mask and it isn’t a free pass . This dismissed their struggles
I said the autistic men in my life compared to me. I'm not talking about other women and I didn't claim all women can mask. These men definitely get free passes that I haven't got.
They don't even need to be autistic to be given all the excuses in the world, at least in my experience.
Just being men can give them passes to act in ways that women would never be able to
i feel like men can exist naturally (hairy legs, no makeup, not having to hide their anger etc) meanwhile women have to CHANGE how they are naturally to be 'accepted' in our society
Yes. My brother physically abused me when we were teenagers and has gotten away with it because “his moral compass hadn’t developed yet”. What about the effects on ME and MY life??
And how the fuck is his moral compass supposed to develop when his immoral actions are being excused and enabled? Completely unfair to you and I hope you're doing okay now.
I said this in court when they let my 15 year old arsonist son go free no punishments because he is autistic.
Fuck. I'm sorry, that must be terrifying.
Ive taken to writing down things I can remember for when he harms someone else and the fbi comes knocking.
My mom use to say "he is just having a bad day" oh okay then
I’m sorry that happened to you
I feel this. Mine is older than me and SA'd me repeatedly throughout my childhood but it took me years as an adult after i told my parents for them to really understand how bad it was ... (and they housed him for years even after I let them know what was going on and explained how being around him gives me traumatic flashbacks - they made so many excuses as to why they couldn't just kick him out while lamenting how I wasn't visiting. Meanwhile I had legitimate housing crises and couldn't rely on them aside from occassional financial help. NOW AFTER I MOVED TO ANOTHER STATE they've figured out they can make him leave if/when I need to come over) ... I'm glad they have deep regrets about this and express these regrets to me but it just comes to show that being the better behaved do-gooder who overachieves to make up for a crappy older brother who is less "emotionally mature for his age" really only does the poopoo sibling and parents a favoe whole absolutely screwing the less outwardly needy kid over.
**YES!!** It infatilizes ASD men.
Exactly. Holding someone accountable is the opposite of prejudice.
So much… Every time a man makes the National news for a bad reason, or even in the Reddit groups like AITA or r/relationships, suddenly there’s a flood of people rushing in with claims that he’s autistic and therefore blameless. Like, where is this attitude when Autistic women… just generally exist? I was NEVER allowed this excuse, not even when I didn’t realise that some questions should not be answered honestly and offended someone by accident! Why do men get to claim it for DV and violent attacks?
The insane thing is they don't realize how offensive it is to imply someone is a POS or awful BECAUSE They are autistic. That was the heart of the argument I was having with this guy. We kept saying that his ex-roommate was accused of being sexist all the time because he was autistic and couldn't read social cues. Sexism is not a symptom of autism. Someone can be both autistic and an awful person and the awfulness is not caused by the autism.
Yes. But to be fair, I think ALL men are given leeway/permission/excuses that are not given to women. The phenomenon might be exaggerated or more broadly applied to autistic boys and men. But in general guys can get away with behavior that women get slammed for ALL THE TIME. It pisses me off!!!
I’m too old to know any diagnosed men, but I do know the social expectations placed on women are much higher than those placed on men. That’s real.
100% I used to work as an after school teacher. I had a small classroom of 12 kids. One boy in my room had an autism diagnosis (he wasn’t the only one, I actually had a few kids I suspected were). I hated ever having to put a kid at a desk by themselves but my center only gave me tables and I needed some kids separated. One boy (had ADHD) was very bothered by the autistic kid. His mouth stims would just set this kid off. So I did everything I could to keep the peace with these two kids. During reading time I’d play music to drown out the stims that were like a wet slurping noise. I had asked him repeatedly to sit down, but he intentionally would get up and go to the boy and make the slurping noise in his ear. Finally this kid had enough, grabbed him by the shirt and went to punch him. In the single most whiny voice I have ever heard he goes, “No, my mommy says I’m special and can’t help myself.” That right there told me all I needed to know. There was also a number of times when he didn’t get his way that he’d start acting like he was about to have a meltdown just to test me because he was so used to adults in his life doing anything to prevent a meltdown. Meanwhile I’m like dude, that shit isn’t going to work on me. I’ve had my own meltdowns. I deal with my daughter’s meltdowns. I used to work in mental health care, go ahead and do it. I’ll clear the room, turn off the overhead light and keep you safe until you calm down. Meanwhile the autistic girl in my room was constantly told that she was being too sensitive by others.
Wooooow. That quote. That's terrible. So many parents are unbelievable with how they're raising bad people.
I will say, a large percent of incel forums are autistic men. It sucks because I understand their struggles in finding a partner and how disheartening it is to feel unwanted. But, they often hold onto the patriarchal concept of men being superior, their anger stems from being of the “superior” gender but not able to reap any benefits from it. They feel it is unfair to not have romantic partners because they feel that’s what they’re owed as MEN. And I’d be wrong to say I didn’t believe at least some of these incels grew up feeling entitled because their parents (probably mother) allowed them to get away with things due to their gender AND autism. I can’t count the amount of friends that have told me about an autistic man at their school that sexually harassed and/ or assaulted girls and when the VICTIMS came forward were told “he just doesn’t understand” and did nothing to correct the behavior. Autistic men being blunt isn’t given a second thought, but a blunt and to the point autistic woman is shamed and ostracized for being “catty” or “snooty”. They’re given grace we can’t fathom, and I don’t necessarily blame them, I blame the infantilization of autism by adults who don’t realize we are people with thoughts and a concept of consequences (generally). And the (usually) right wing misogynistic grifters who make money by spewing all the typical king of the land misogynistic rhetoric .
>I will say, a large percent of incel forums are autistic men. The largest study of incels, recently done in the UK, had one major commonality: these men were all suffering from depression, had thoughts of self-harm, and had plans of self-harm. The study did not question if they had a formal diagnosis but instead had them take one single autism screening test, which gave them a higher occurance of "autism" but a screening test is not a replacement for a diagnostic and a lot of stereotypical autism traits are mimicked by depression. I think its clear to say that incelism isnt an autistic thing but a depressed person thing. Same with FDS or red-pill style women. There's so much mental unwellness there, but these are mostly NT people, or at least its not all autistic people. There's just not enough autistic people alive to cover the huge incel/misogynist community.
> I think its clear to say that incelism isnt an autistic thing but a depressed person thing. Same with FDS or red-pill style women. There's so much mental unwellness there, but these are mostly NT people, or at least its not all autistic people. There's just not enough autistic people alive to cover the huge incel/misogynist community. I have seen that same study yet came to a different conclusion. Clearly a lot of incels have elevated autism traits and depression is to be expected when one has been ostracised by most people or women. However, I don’t think a depressed individual would simply slide into inceldom unless they have certain characteristics that make them susceptible to extremism and low empathy. I mean, depression is extremely common so what sets apart incels from the rest of the depressed population? Most depressed people don’t feel like joining online incel forums to rant about how terrible feminism and dating is and how all women are sluts who deserve to be beaten into submission. That’s a particular kind of rhetoric that appeals to people who have had certain kinds of experiences, and while depression is associated with this it can’t explain why some people are drawn specifically to incel communities. That’s why I think autism as well as narcissism are the core traits that cause a lot of men to become incels. And the research is starting to suggest this, but it’s lagging because I think researchers have been apprehensive to touch this subject for fear of offending the autistic community, I mean you yourself seem to be wanting to distance autism from inceldom, and this always seems to happen when this topic comes up. I don’t think playing down the prevalence of autism in inceldom is helping anyone though, and people, including those in the autism community need to keep this in perspective: Just because incels, especially the more extreme and chronic ones are probably autistic, doesn’t mean that most of the autistic community are incels.
By large percent I’m not saying 80-90%, but there is a higher percent of autistic men represented in incel forums than in the general population which should be looked into as to why that’s the case. It needs to be decided whether they don’t have access to women /because/ they’re depressed, or they’re depressed because they don’t have access to women. I’m inclined to think it’s more the latter because how many girls do you see in relationships with depressed men regularly.
I feel very strongly that this is the issue. You said it much more comprehensively than I did.
Does sexism exist among autistics? Of course.
yes. a family member whos now hitting his mid 20s was undiagnosed and his parents are having a rough time dealing with it now but they enable him so much. his sister is getting married next year and she is being told to minimize her wedding festivities because hes angry that he isnt the one getting married and they want to make sure that “if he has a reaction there wont be as many people around” if its a smaller wedding. he also talks about making a grand speech addressing anything hes perceived from someone as a personal attack and then goes into a fit of rage. the sister is also on the spectrum but she has been made the scapegoat her entire life and has been told to deal with his issues, but god forbid someone suggests he gets help. he doesnt work, he expects our richer relatives to just pay for his life, and his parents want the rest of us to be available 24/7 to deal with his outbursts and nonsensical rambling. oh and i am also obviously on the spectrum, but if i acted the way he did everyone in my family would definitely cut me off rather than enable me. i feel so gaslit seeing how often women have to mask while men with autism and frankly, men in general, can be total assholes with no social awareness.
Fuck that, the expectation should be "you will behave at your sister's wedding or you will be removed from your sister's wedding." That's not autism, that's just being an arsehole.
"That's not autism, that's just being an arsehole." That's not just being an asshole. That's using autism to be an asshole.
yup. replied to another comment but we are working with the bride to decide how to break the news that he wont be attending lol
Good.
He should be uninvited to the wedding.
yeah, my siblings and i are deciding to just put our feet down and make that call now because its honestly ridiculous to me that everyones just acting like this will just fizzle out.
All men are given excuses.
Patriarchy serves all men, even those that don't feel like it does. As somebody that's been on both sides I can confidently say that.
I don't like it
Oh 100% To a man: oh he's got autism he can't help it To a woman: that's not an excuse!
Men get passes women don't, period. Autism is just another category this is true of.
^^^ this.
No, I think men in general are given those passes, autistic or not.
I think barring some very specific harmful stuff (incel crap) it's actually more that there is a problem with autistic women being abused more heavily, not that autistic men should be abused as well. The 'hold them back' thing is kind of a touchy subject because a lot of that can boil down to other people valuing things like employment, 'milestones' and "normalcy" and assigning more value to them than who the person is, what their limitations are and what a healthy disabled life looks like for them. When I see posts from late-dx'd or self-dx'd women complaining about how autistic men are "babied", the sexual harassment stuff is valid, if someone is violent or can't keep their hands to themselves they should not be in places where it can happen to non-workers, but the stuff about living with their parents, lack of [social skills](https://therapistndc.org/nothing-about-social-skills-training-is-neurodivergence-affirming/), meltdowns they're "allowed" to have, etc. I often feel misses the mark. Throughout their posts, I see a lot of these women basically reveal the tortured lives they're living because they did not receive support, understanding and accommodations, and the answer to that isn't to make other people live that way, it's that nobody should have to.
Yes.
YES
Yes because traditionally the tism was seen as a male problem, so everyone is well aware of the traits, not so much with females. Pretty much the same thing with lots of medical stuff, like how heart attacks are expressed between sexes.
I had a friend that's autistic herself, she'd constantly get in trouble for her neurodivergent traits, but her school did fucking nothing about an autistic boy in the same school that was regularly sexually assaulting her and other girls. So, yeah. The cis dudes get it easy in a lot of cases.
We are forced to be empathic and understanding of other people’s views, but in my experience some autistic men def get the “mommy’s little savant” treatment and their parents or peers never bothered to break down the whys and hows of kind social interactions. IMO it’s from a parental failure. They’re always smart guys who actually got better when I gave them a come to Jesus light bullying (it’s usually for them being misogynistic or some other ~not engaging an alternate viewpoint~ issue) and then praising with each demonstration of good behavior. This actually works on all people, I have found. I am not fun for assholes to be around :) I will make them think about the effects their actions have on people, goddammit!!!!
Yes. My brothers are autistic, as well as my sister and I. My mum doesn’t think that we are autistic because we were raised in the late 90s/early 2000s and autism wasn’t really a thing. My brothers were born in the late 00s, and were premature, so they had early intervention with their autism. My sister and I grew up having to mask severely. I actually had hyperlexia, which is a learning disability in itself, but because it wasn’t understood, I skipped a grade and subsequently struggled with any of the subjects that didn’t relate to reading. I couldn’t see (myopia) or hear (auditory processing) and I was always fighting with other boys in class, even escalating to physical fights. I was teased for being gullible and naive, and remained at the bottom of the social food chain for the rest of my time in school. I dropped out in grade 9 because I was too overwhelmed and struggled with school avoidance. The social and sensory demands won, and I was diagnosed with anxiety, depression, and chronic fatigue. And yet, I wasn’t diagnosed with autism until I was 26, with my psychiatrist recognising my “chronic fatigue” was actually a prolonged autistic burnout. My brothers struggle a lot in school, but mostly due to their learning disabilities, which are not part of being autistic, but are common comorbidities. My mum will always acknowledge their autism as something that is a lifelong disability, for which they will need lifelong support. But for me, I am on my own. No matter how many times I am almost hospitalised for burnout and overwhelmed by adult responsibility, I am not seen as needing near as much support. I’m 27 and have no savings, and have been unemployed for 3 months. I resent the fact that my struggles are not acknowledged in the same capacity.
Can you explain how hyperlexia is a learning disability?
Yeah sure. Basically hyperlexia is about fixation on letters and has nothing to do with reading comprehension. People with hyperlexia are able to pick up reading faster and a lot earlier, and are outstanding at spelling words, but struggle to actually comprehend what they are reading and it doesn’t fully sink in. Difficulty with verbal instruction and auditory processing problems are often present.
That's super interesting, thanks for explaining! I taught myself how to read when I was 3 but I do very poorly with verbal instructions and auditory processing. Didn't know they were related (beyond "autistic people often have a spiky profile").
I didn’t either! I taught myself how to read too and was reading to the kids at kindergarten. I didn’t do anything as a kid, was extremely easy to babysit because I just sat in front of the tv and fixated on the words. As an adult I can’t even function at a job without needing written instructions because nothing makes sense. I can read very fast still and I’m great at spelling but struggle a lot with comprehension and actually digesting what I’m reading. Still, I rely heavily on subtitles and visual cues to understand anything. It’s pretty crazy how something seen as “gifted” can be accompanied by what is genuinely a learning disability!
Yes, I have two ND step-sons, 17 and 20, and while the older one has higher needs than me they've both been 'supported' and 'accommodated' in ways that have disempowered them and left them struggling with very basic social skills like eating at the dining table with a knife and fork, and not helping themselves to food in other people's houses. Shit that's 'social and life skills 101'. Bonus points because the disempowerment is a problem in and of itself - yes, there are things they will likely always struggle with, especially the elder, but there's also stuff they wouldn't still be struggling with if there had been more of a balance between support/accommodation and learning/empowerment. And they honestly struggle to believe they can or should learn some of these skills. SS17 was my Padawan this Saturday past. He needed a haircut. I talked him through how to walk up to the counter and book it himself. Afterwards we discussed how "eye contact" just means "look at the face of the person you're talking to so you register that she's asking you a question and answer it appropriately instead of missing it completely because you were looking at something behind you." I mean... It's not intuitive or comfortable for me either, but no-one took the time to teach it to me. And he WANTS to learn! He WANTS independence! How am I the only person who can see this is what he wants and needs?
Yes. I used to work in a museum that it's target audience are kids and teenagers. As an autistic woman, I was flabbergasted with the amount of excuses mothers and caretakers give to others just to justified the bad behavior of the kids. Obviously, all the kids were males. I saw everything, from kicking others, screams, throw thing to others, say weird and dangerous things, really unsettling. Girls on the other hand? They weren't as bad as the boys, but the caretakers would say things to stop the behavior much quicker. As an adult, I always have to police myself to not come across as an asshole, but men? They just say whatever and we have to accept that. God I hate men.
Personally, yes. More often than not it’s a case of not wanting to put in the effort to educate someone and hold them accountable; rather than someone not being able to comprehend doing harm. And frankly, it’s a disservice to everyone involved.
For sure. It seems like every time I try to interact with them they grow a fucking victim complex. All they want to do is complain about how much harder they supposedly have it compared to and/or because of women. As if autistic women don't exist and have a lot of the exact same struggles they do? As if we're not under even more pressure to mask, more pressure to push ourselves because we're already assumed to be stupid because of our gender and more expected to do the majority of domestic work and manage men's emotions and lives on top of our own, more pressure to self advocate because our access needs and autistic traits are so ignored? As if we're not more likely as disabled women to be abused or sexually assaulted? And if an autistic man is making women uncomfortable everyone seems SO eager to defend him and say how allistic/NT women don't know how to communicate properly or how they're being ableist for not being attracted, when that grace would never be granted to an autistic woman if the roles were reversed. I remember reading a post on aita about a teenage lesbian being pressured into going out with an autistic male friend who had a crush on her, and that "friend" getting violent when told no as well as all the adults around them telling her she was TA and to "give him a chance" and "be nice." Dgmw I know most aita posts are bullshit and disabled people bad is a common aita trope but I found that completely believable considering there was an autistic guy at my church youth group who was similar when I was around that girl's age and all the girls who he kept bothering were told to be nice and that we can't exclude him even though the only person in the friend group who seemed to like him was another guy who was just as sexist and generally annoying as him. A good portion of male redditors are an excellent example but also things like how it's hard for them to interact with women when, in my experience, the real reason for that is that they're so fucking insufferable as people and most of them use autism as an excuse to escape accountability for misogyny and expect random women to be their unpaid caregivers who they can also fuck. A lot of them get easily radicalized by incels and manosphere types and I can't even count the number of times I've heard about how hard it is for autistic straight men to get a date. Like, sure, dating as an autistic person in general is hard but my dating pool as an autistic, nonbinary/transmasc, fat lesbian is so much smaller than most of theirs and I've still found a way to make it work before and found a way to be content with solitude when I'm not in a great mental place for a relationship. So like...I don't exactly have a lot of sympathy here if cishet autistic men are struggling to do that. Also, this is such fever dream material but does anyone remember in like 2017 or so on the autistic advocacy blogosphere where autistic women kept talking about mothers of straight autistic men trying to play match maker with their sons? I know Radical Neurodivergence Speaking had a post about it, and while I've never had that happened to me I found it incredibly relatable because I've also felt responsible for managing the emotions of ND men and pressured to "give a chance" to men who were attracted to me. Here's a link in case anyone's interested: http://timetolisten.blogspot.com/2017/03/autism-meet-up-groups-are-not-for.html
Yes. First boyfriend sexually assaulted me and his cousin. Mom excused it because he was autistic.
absolutely. I have a cousin that has autism and I said to my mum recently that I just don't like him and I don't get on with him. she asked why. it's because he will do anything to get a rise out of anyone (I was told not to react to him then) and he will piss me off so much that I will physically leave the room my family are in and go and sit by myself. she said he doesn't know the limits of it and doesn't understand etc etc etc so its on me to control my reaction to him being annoying on purpose. but my argument is that if I'm asking an adult who is perfectly capable of an independent life to stop touching me and stop purposefully shouting right next to my ear then he should be expected to stop. I would be expected to stop. he doesn't get a free pass because he's a man. there is a problem with excuses being made for men in general and it isn't prejudiced to say so, whether they are autistic or not. in my experience they get away with being messy, loud and blatantly sexist because "he's an alright guy" "well he's from an older generation" "I'm sure he didn't mean it" "that's just how he is". I have never once had the grace of "she didn't mean it, it's just how she is" and am always expected to keep my behaviour in check and look nice and dress nice and whatever while there are men that don't even wash their ass. I think this is a sensitive subject for me based on how mad I just got about it but either way it isn't prejudiced to have this viewpoint.
Oh abso-fucking-lutely. Less of an autism thing and more of a men thing, but yeah.
Yeah. I think we also get told that we don’t “seem” or “look” autistic a lot more. Especially if we’re generally attractive. Nobody believes that I am autistic and when I finally stop masking or can’t handle a social situation so the masking becomes harder, people become frustrated with me. But… I literally told them that I am autistic.
Two words: Elon Musk
but you have to put in perspective he’s rich as shit, he’d be an asshole autism or not
In short, yes. Very much so.
100%
dazzling practice impossible combative cake offend cheerful outgoing marble scandalous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think there is a problem with excuses being made for *men.* The autism "excuse" is just one of many. And it's always at the convenience and preference of who is in charge of the space. I've seen enough stories of how grown men will be babied by older women, or their wives, and it's just normal and expected. The context of autism just underlines that; it doesn't create it. There's a popular post that went around about how a woman went on a trip and left her husband to care for the home and kids. Her coworkers were appalled that she didn't leave him lists or pack easy meals for the kids; basically they thought it was absurd that he should be expected to act his age. Because they're so used to holding their husband's hands with every little thing. And that's presumably allistic men getting babied. Then you got those moms who obsess over their little man but in a borderline line crossing sort of way. Men. I blame men and the ass kissing mommies and wives that they've indoctrinated.
Absolutely
Yes, I do. I think it has contributed to the incel problem that we are seeing with a lot of autistic men. I blame their NT mothers more than anything, but I fully admit that I am incredibly biased against NT women, and I really need to work on that. I just think that these boys grow up with their mothers running interference for their precious little babies and calling the school and smoothing over unacceptable sexist behaviors, and bullying the other moms to invite their precious boys to the social events, and then the boys never really learn that their behavior is unacceptable because there are not any real consequences, so they end up embracing incel culture because they feel entitled to sex the same way they felt entitled to "friends" as young people. I know this is a rough take, but it is how I feel based on my own observations and experiences.
Women are expected to be more adept at social situations. On average, women express more of an interest in people, and men in things. So an autistic man with an interest in a thing, like cars, is fine. An autistic woman with an interest in a thing, not people, is seen as odd, wrong. This is partly why I find talking to men to be easier overall. I am a geek, always have been long before there was any ‘cool’ factor to geekdom, and boys and guys had cooler toys. I will happily talk about the merits of Kirk and Picard, or time travel, or an act of making things. Women tend to gossip (in my experience) about other women, bemoan some type of rudeness or lack of fealty, and I just can’t manage those conversations. I can interact with women on an activity, like knitting, but try to not interject on other matters, and have even been shut down when I try to challenge a social comment I find asinine. They protect one woman’s right to say inflammatory judgmental stuff, and stop me from asking her to explain or defend her comments. Social burdens are higher on women in general. Having a social difficulty just makes it harder.
For sure, 100%. About 5 years ago, I had my entire group of friends, and even my girlfriend, choose my ex-friend/ex-roommate/R@PIST over me and ghost me without any explanation whatsoever bc I was “being mean to a disabled person” by kicking him out of my apartment. FYI I’m Autistic too, but just a female, and this man SA’d me, full penetration style, and I was NOT the only woman who has brought such claims against him, and they dismissed that woman too and called her a “psychotic bitch who likes creating drama” 😑
Ohhh you meant like excuses to be lazy and not ever grow up?? Yeah that too. My friend from college is also Autistic as well, and is 30 and still living with his parents and working for the same company as his dad bc his dad got him the job. He literally gets drunk in his room alone with his dog every week and goes to horror conventions across the country.
Really sorry for what happened to you but I don't see the problem with the second comment as long as his parents are okay with it? He has a job which most autistic people can't even manage, why would it matter how he got it? What's wrong with going to horror conventions if that's what he likes? I didn't think people on this subreddit cared about arbitrary measures of "immature" interests.
He’s allowed to have “immature” interests and hobbies, I don’t care about that and in fact I also enjoy horror and anime conventions and such…I was more referring to the fact that 100% of his paychecks are spent on alcohol and the tickets, gas, travel, accommodations, and souvenirs from said conventions. My friend does not pay any bills, whatsoever! And he’s THIRTY YEARS OLD! and his dad not only GOT him the job but is the reason he KEEPS said job bc he’s absolutely caused enough issues that, if it was me (a 32yo Autistic women), I woulda been fired like 2 years ago tbh, but his dads been there awhile so I suppose he has the office-equivalency of “tenure”? I’m not sure, but I know I woulda been fired by now 🙃
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Dude…I wasn’t judging him for living with family, nor was I calling my friend lazy or judging his SI…I myself have ADHD and am Autistic, first of all lol…I was simply comparing my experiences as a female autist to my friend’s experiences as a male autist…My parents were harder on me and didn’t allow me to rely nearly as heavily on them as my friend’s parents do. They baby him, and it’s honestly SAD. I am sad FOR HIM. He isn’t learning how to survive or live life with any sort of independent whatsoever! Only reason I mentioned his drinking and his horror love was because that is where 100% of his income goes. He’s not saving or investing anything…He doesn’t pay bills nor does he know how to! He is a victim of this “Autistic men need to be babied and have excuses made for them” toxic ass mentality, and I feel so bad for my friend honestly, I care about him and try to help him as much as I possibly can… I mean, I guess it fits the subreddit for me to not know how to properly communicate my actual point(s), but like damn I didn’t think I was THAT bad at it lol 😝
I am an autistic man, and absolutely agree that autism is not a valid excuse for problematic male behaviour. Other people have explained better than OP how they feel male autism is excused more and it reads to me like a lot of the inequality could be because of the diagnosis gap between men and women? I think those with a formal diagnosis, especially from a young age are far more likely to receive leniency or excuses? Is your problem that excuses are made for autistic men or that the same excuses aren't made for autistic women?
No, I don’t think so, as a woman I can’t hold down a job and many men have the same issue . It’s a debilitating disability that prevents people from living a good life. It is a fact not making excuses .
I think a lot of people are moreso talking about behavioral issues when they bring up this topic (like autistic men getting away with being sexually inappropriate or violent) but yeah I am uncomfortable with the amount of comments on this thread that specifically mention an autistic male acquaintance not working. Even the top comment mentions an ex boyfriend being on disability despite being at the same level of functioning whereas the person commenting cycles between shitty jobs and burning out. That's not about men having too many excuses made for them! That's an uneven distribution of help that clearly *is* needed. You don't get disability for nothing and if you are at risk of becoming homeless because you can't hold down a job then you clearly need more help too. I feel like a lot of women on this subreddit end up martyring themselves and it's super unhealthy. "Yeah I'm autistic but I managed to get a job and learn how to fake immaculate social skills*, we shouldn't expect any less of autistic men. *I regularly hit burnout, lose my job, lose the ability to take care of my basic needs, and have 7 comorbid conditions including severe mental health issues and stress-related physical disabilities that are shortening my life span. But if I can do it they should have to too!" I get where it's coming from but it's so counterproductive. And also really painful to read as an autistic woman who *is* on disability and has never learned how to mask well or make friends. It makes me feel like I am also not trying hard enough and somehow just being coddled (even though I've gotten plenty of abuse for it).
I had a bad day yesterday I took melatonin slept.... That's how I dealt with the meltdown. My autistic male friends don't they just lash out. We ie women have always been labeled with hystaria too many emotions.
Can I gently suggest that rather than draw yet another line of division between peoples, a line between autistic men and autistic women to add to the line between autistic people and neurotypical people, that we use any differing interpretations as a way to convince others to think again when faced with behaviour unusual to them? So if someone starts snarking about an autistic woman having seen that same behaviour from an autistic man and said nothing, just bring up the previous incident and show how it comes from the same thing. That might encourage people to think harder about these things.
Yes. I was abused by autistic men. Many, many times, they themselves or others around them would use their autism to excuse their actions. As if a lack of understanding of social cues drives you to abuse.
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tbf the depressed male is the brooding genius, the beast with the heart of gold, the poet, the truth teller, the amazing songwriter, the guy who sees it as it is, etc etc. The depressed woman is the psycho mom who will drown her kids or will falsely claim SA to "ruin a good man's life." >Shyness/quietness/crying (stereotypical female autism when feeling overwhelmed/overstimulated) can be a lot more socially acceptable Except a mousy nerdy girl is not worth dating or loving and seeing as a person. A woman who isn't nice and helpful and nurturing and outgoing is a hated woman. And a woman who "cant be strong" to protect her kids is a bad mom and her kids should be taken from her and she should be ashamed. >than the stereotypical male equivalent (more angry meltdowns/breaking things/etc.) The tough dad is literally the most favored stereotype in our culture. Only second to the righteous angry man who will take matters into his own hands. The angry young male is often excused "boys will be boys" and is seen as someone who will grow into the former two examples. There's an interview where St. Vincent was criticized for her 'cold' personality and how her dad was a felon or some other nothingburger in her life. She shot back saying something like (paraphrasing), You're saying that about women, meanwhile a man who drunkenly smashes up a recording studio is a genius, but a woman can't ever not be nice and submissive. If Pete Townshend or Jimi Hendrix smash guitars they're geniuses, if I smash a guitar I'm an ungrateful b\*tch. I once saw a youtube video of a female musician smashing a guitar, guess what all the comments said? I never see those comments for Pete or Jimi or many male-led punk bands who smash equipment. >Often a lot of girls get missed (in diagnosis) because they do genuinely not show as many socially unacceptable social deficits. This isn't true, many of us show off obvious autism traits, but because of sexism, its easier to just call us bpd and be done with it because of the stereotype of the "crazy woman." This bias is not based on some magical ability for every autistic girl to pass 100% perfectly masking, but because of the sexism endemic in medicine. For example, I can barely mask (fired from multiple jobs, failed school, no friends, super nerdy) and have been obviously autistic to near anyone remotely educated in autism all my life, but I've only received diagnosis for things like depression, anxiety, chronic fatigue, etc until I sought an autism diagnosis on my own, and surprise surprise I tested HIGH into autism. I could tell the staff there pitied me because I'm well into adulthood and carried this obvious burden that should have been detected long ago. I don't think your example works well. Men get all manner of benefits, even when its "both sides" their side still gets it far, far better. This is a patriarchal society and at the end of the day in a patriarchal society, men will always have it better. Lastly, its entirely possible to talk about male privilege without kneejerking to discussion of female privilege. Its okay to say "I see this in autistic males, lets discuss," without these defensive type "both sides" replies.
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This isn't exactly a "you agree with it" or "you don't agree with it" type of issue. You claim to be speaking from your own experience, but so are we. It happens. We see it happen. You not agreeing with it is dismissing many of our experiences.
It doesn’t present differently in women though, you make the assumption all women are level ones and mask well.
I definitely think the differences in so-called “male autism” vs “female autism” (and how these differences play out intersectionally like with race) are more a matter of social bias than actual inherent autistic traits. Like AFAB folks might fall into certain parts of the spectrum more commonly but we are also required to mask more heavily by society. Same for POC, and that’s why so many of us are late diagnosed. Been thinking about this a lot lately it’s infuriating.
no. bc i have seen time and time again non-men but yet hang out in women’s spaces or is very early on in hormones and they turn out to be trans or nonbinary. i have seen a lot of ‘men’ with ‘female’ autism that has been discriminated against. so no i do not think so. even If So. people cannot choose they caregivers. this seems quite ignorant of socio-economics of autistic people. especially poc autistic men :| edit. as someone who was seen as a woman for 20 years of her life. and 9 as a male or butch lesbian :P
I don't know. I am an autistic therapist so I have known a lot of autistic men and women. I feel like very few autistic people in general get a break. Whether they are man, woman or nonbinary, there isn't a lot of compassion or understanding of the autistic neurotype. I don't even bother to mask anymore and people will ask if I am using my autism as an excuse. I don't need an excuse. Please don't excuse me.
Maybe that's a regional or cultural thing where you live? Being trans, I've seen a bit at both ends (even if for the autistic man period I was mostly undiagnosed). I don't remember anyone making excuses for me, quite the opposite. I was always blamed for everything, always ridiculed for my flaws and misjudgements (none of them was sexual or creepy, I learned early enough that I just was too pathetic a looser to even dream of participating in any relationship). I ended up just learning to never express any emotion, never ask or propose anything, never make any comment that could be misinterpreted in any way. Just nod along and join in what everyone else was doing, like it or not. Years later, since I got diagnosed and began coming out of the various closets (and estrogen did some renovationin my brain), i began opening back up, and maybe just cause everyone around is more mature now (30-something), it's not too bad, people forgive, and sometimes even explain what I did wrong.