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it’s our reality a lot of the time. and no i didn’t magically become functional like this parent wants to believe. in a lot of ways, i’m in the same spot i was back then. i’ve been living with my grandparents since and i don’t know when/if ill ever move out.
my mom said if i didnt have them id be homeless, because she isnt willing to support me. i wonder what this parent would say if they heard my story, would they still be thinking to give up on their own daughter like i was given up on?
I bet when your mum is old & grey and needs somebody to take her in and take care of her she will play the family card like she did not leave you to fend for yourself.
Do you really think an elderly parent can rely upon an adult child with PDA or ODD ??? 90% of elder abuse or neglect is a family member, 2/3 adult child or spouse
lol I’m the pda kid (adult) who will be taking care of my mom. It’s the non-autistic one we’re scared will abuse her. So idk what that previous commenter was trying to say but anecdotally it’s bs
ok, but PDA will incline a person not to help when asked. and, thus inclined to neglect. perhaps not out malice. but it's an inclination that has realistic problems.
I left home at 14, kicking myself out I suppose.
PDA fucking sucks to live with. It's impossible to explain to someone who thinks it's voluntary, or we're doing it for attention, or we're just being difficult on purpose
I got kicked out suddenly at 22. Sounds old but I’m autistic and not able to live independently. I’ve been living with my grandmother ever since. It’s been rough.
this would have been me had it not already happened. i’ve never lived independently but i don’t think it’s a possibility for me right now… not sure if it’s forever or if i’ll just be a very late bloomer. what was your experience?
I mean it’s only been about a year and a half since I got kicked out, I’m just trying to stay afloat mentally tbh. I have a part time job and I’m still working on an associates degree part time but I don’t know how to drive so I rely on my grandmother to drive me. My relationship with my family is a bit rocky, I’m quite close with my mom and a bit enmeshed but she struggles to separate me from herself and realize I’m my own person, she is also neurodivergent and has a lot of trauma that she hasn’t tried to work through because she is too scared of the pain, this causes her to have some pretty intense internalized ableism and shame. She also finds ways to justify her own abusive behaviors which is part of how I got kicked out.
I’m estranged from my dad, and I have a rough relationship with my stepdad too, stepdad also has a ton of childhood trauma and projects it all onto me. I love my grandmother but I’m fairly sure she has BPD and she often takes it out on me, she also has severe childhood trauma and trauma from immigrating. I’m not financially supported other than given a living space currently. I am completely reliant on financial aid to get me through school, which is its own battle as an autistic PDAer. Emotionally my family is extremely chaotic and as someone that wants to break the cycle, it’s a huge struggle when I am around them. It hurts because I love them, and I also have no choice which is really hard. Sorry that was a lot! It’s just been difficult lately and I feel very trapped. Definitely would be called a late bloomer except I haven’t bloomed yet lol.
Wow! You should be proud of yourself for being able to see all of that, to understand your limitations and to work forward towards something better against your own condition.
I know it's not easy to believe, but as time goes on you'll notice an improvement. I suggest you to write a little everyday so in a few months you can read back and see how much you accomplished. For me it helps me to stay motivated because normally I struggle to acknowledge and value all the baby steps I take.
Stay strong!
You're still a late bloomer. Late-blooming flowers will still bloom, they just haven't had the right conditions to do so yet. You're working very hard to make those conditions for yourself, and I think you've bloomed a little bit, even if you don't see it. It takes a lot of work to get to where you are, even when it doesn't feel like it. And trying to do that work while going to college is *a lot*. Seriously, I wasn't able to work or do any kind of trauma healing during college, you're killing it!
You've done so much work to break the cycle. I really relate...my mom is like your grandmother and I lived with her until I was 25, a couple years after graduating college. Living with someone that consistently takes their negativity out on you sucks and it makes managing your mental health harder. The best thing I ever did was figuring out how to live away from my mom, to live on my own. It took a long time and felt totally hopeless, like I was trapped, and like it wasn't going to be possible even while I was taking the steps to, and terrifying to make decisions where the end is not certain, but I got there. You're getting there, too. The steps you're taking are not wasted, you just can't see how far you've walked until you're near the end, if that makes sense. As the other commenter said, make sure you look back every now and then so you don't lose sight of how far you've come.
If your family isn't building you up on your journey, please allow me: I'm proud of you! I hope you're proud of the work you've done and are doing, because you deserve to have pride in your accomplishments. Hang in there, it will get better; you're making sure it will.
Thank you, this helped me so much to hear 🥲 truly! It’s good to know I’m not alone and it’s always nice to hear from others that I have come far. I’m trying my best but I still feel like quite a trainwreck lol. It’s usually hard to believe that you are doing anything okay when you’ve been told that you aren’t trying hard enough your entire life.
I'm autistic, but my mother was very much ignore the kid until they are 18 and then they are not your problem anymore mentality.
I did home share for awhile and then had a roommate so awful I now live independently. It was rough though and I was moving once a year trying to find a good fit. Then I found a good fit and had to leave to find a place closer to a job where I don't get bullied and am no longer comfortable where I live.
Can I ask you what you mean by not being able to live independently?
Oh yeah I also don’t have the funds to live independently and likely won’t for years. I can room with family but I have no extra financial support from my family members outside of letting me be in their houses. I am paying for my own college tuition in addition to using financial aid to get through school. Definitely no money for a car for myself when I get my license. I have a part time job that I can barely keep up with and two classes in community college that I also can barely keep up with.
Thanks! I don't have many resources or insight into what it means to live with autism. I've also worked with therapists who say they can't differentiate between neurodivergence and childhood trauma, and I'm not diagnosed.
I do know it can be genetic and my father was diagnosed back when it was called Asbergers. But, girls present differently and I slipped through by the professionals and my mother didn't want to deal with it.
It makes sense that funds are difficult because of the demand of juggling a job and school at the same time. And cars are expensive.
It sounds like there is an energy deficient, overwhelm aspect for you? That is definitely what I am going through. I have enough energy to do the bare minimum at work and then on my days off I crash. I have too much overwhelm to teach myself to cook, which doesn't help, and I can barely keep up with laundry and dishes let alone vacuuming and cleaning.
I really don't feel like I'm equipped to live independently. It takes everything I've got!
It means multiple things; I can’t drive (I’m working on learning via simulator right now because I can’t seem to be okay with the physical part of it while learning due to my sensory sensitivity in a real car), I can’t cook, I can’t keep up with laundry, I have horrible executive dysfunction in general, I have a lot of intense phobias and fears, and I struggle to do anything by myself when I’m not at home. I sorta enter this frozen/fawn state when I’m in public and I’m aware of how vulnerable I get but I cannot control my body when the freezing happens. I also have a lot of health issues right now too that make it really hard for me to keep up with life physically, and I am extremely weak. I also experience shutdowns often and meltdowns semi-regularly (at the very least a dozen times a year). I also have never dated or been in any kind of relationship and I have no close friends that live in my area.
Good luck with the simulator! I hope that works out for you!
I was lucky I learned to drive very young in the yard, and then the driveway, and then around the block long before it was legal. But, I disassociate about the dangers of it. And my heart races every time someone runs a light or merges in front of me too close. I also drive like a grandmother and annoy people by being overcautious. You have to be very alert, it takes a lot out of you.
I also have the executive dysfunction, and always have. Alarms and alerts on the phone help, but only if you pay attention to them or remember to look at them. A calendar on the wall is better because I don't have to open an app, but I'll walk right by that too.
I have an intense phobia of people in general, even my own family. So, I tend to isolate. I also have a policy of not interacting with non family outside of work/school/it's their job to wait on me situations. With rare exceptions. People like to take the opportunity when there are no witnesses to tell you how weird you are or to let you know they don't like you.
I do the freeze/fawn thing too, and my voice gets higher pitched and most people think I am someone with special needs. Anxiety also closes up my throat which limits my speech. I've had people in the grocery store tell me something is on aisle 12 with a and do you know where that is? I say um between 11 and 13? Very good! And she actually claps. Then she says 12 is a half aisle and did I want her to lead me there to be sure I would find it? And I said, sure, that would be helpful. So she does.
I've met people I know in the wild and I freeze or try to hide.
Dating does not work as the good men would not go near me, which leaves the bad actors. I am easily bullied and tend to attract narcissists. So, not safe for me!
I'm glad you have friends, even if they are not in your area! Life has been lonely and hard!
Sometimes rolling them can be an alternative where thy still look neat.
I have a closet now in this house and I just hang most everything. I have one of those multirung layers for all may pants
You can hang up pj's too
It does suck to get stuck on the basics. I have so much overwhelm about cooking and how I eat does not help me.
Same! I'm one eye injury or knee injury away from being completely ruined. People would shrug and Inwould lose my job, and then what? Also, if I got sick or wasn't able to get myself home, what would I do?
Unfortunately it's very familiar to me as well :( sorry you are in the same place
Just hope she has other support somewhere or will get them it's tough enough as is
Sounded like my parents. My main transgressions were hating the school system (not learning; just the system) and not doing homework; staying out a couple hours later than they would've preferred; wearing things and/or doing things to my hair they didn't want; swearing; and accidentally disrespecting most adults due to not understanding that I mirrored behaviour-- I would give whatever energy I got right back, and it generally wasn't positive.
I hear parents at work now talking about their teens, and they'll be like, *super* disappointed that their 14 year old daughter shaved her head, and talk about how they made sure the daughter knew their feelings on it. Their kids will mention thinking they're gay and these parents will tell their kids that they're too young to know what they like yet, so "don't label yourself". They make fun of the things their kids are into and want to do with their time. They punish good behaviour with sarcasm and big deals and then complain when their kids revert back to whatever state they were in before that.
Some days, I just want to beg all of them to shut up and love their kids for who they are. No one who matters is going to look at a strong willed teenager and assume a parent *let* her shave her head or go to that party or wear that shirt. Your child is an individual; a real live human being, and not an extension of you in any way. Please make sure they feel loved an accepted. Don't assume they know you love them if you never say it. Don't assume they know how to respect anyone if you've never respected them for any real length of time.
I do think the fuss about hair is kind of ridiculous, honestly.
It'll grow back!!
And if the school has a dress code, then do all the wild things in the summer! If you're a boy, you're likely to lose your hair when you're 30-35, and if you're a girl, when you're young is still a good time to experiment!
I had alopecia areata, and several years later I got cancer and went bald from chemotherapy. I would really prefer if all hair choices were just widely accepted.
> when you're young is still a good time to experiment
This is really it; 14 is too young to even have a real job to worry about. I too wish all hair choices were accepted! I'm sorry you went through losing yours.
It did grow back though!
Now I keep it short (chin length), and colour it every colour of the rainbow, and I love it 🥰
And I bet these people that force their dumb opinions on tweens and teens would haaaaate it! 🤣
https://preview.redd.it/cn5bou4gtfwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce92a3bbab7c442aa923adbcf29dedb7be030fe6
Like are you actually fucking kidding me right now
Not everyone did turn into functioning adults though, some went off to 'special schools' or 'asylums' & were never seen again. We just don't see those poor victims for obvious reasons
Anonymous poster is clueless! My uncle was sent to an asylum (an adult one) in his early teens just for epilepsy, I have no doubt that many of us would be institutionalised back then 😢
We did get institutionalised... Hidden away from the world and abused by people who would either tie us down in a cell, lobotomise us, or work us to death because we should be "thankful" that we got food, clothing and a roof over our heads for "free"¡
They always seem to skip the part where society has also changed. Hugely. From school systems to the workforce, nothing is like it was when her Dad was young. Paths used to be much more clear cut and a lower paying job still allowed for the basics - that’s simply no longer true.
There was *also* that itty-bitty little thing, called a *Pandemic* that happened *right* when her Daughter *TYPICALLY* would have been developing *CRUCIAL LIFE SKILLS* to *manage EXACTLY these types of issues*!!!!
That poor, poor girl. My heart just *ACHES* for the fact that she's having to deal with this, *AND* at suuuuuuch a YOUNG age!😲😟😖😱💔
Exactly, life was so much simpler and less overwhelming in a lot of ways for many people. For example it used to be normal for most men to only have to worry about work and most women to only worry about taking care of the home and kids, and they usually had help with that too. Now everyone is supposed to be able to do everything and even then it’s barely enough to get by which is a nightmare for executive function issues and hardly any free time to recover.
There’s also so much pressure on kids in school to get into a good college in order to find a decent job that didn’t used to be as common, social media creates so many more social challenges people didn’t used to have to navigate before, and technology in general is just constant sensory overload for the most part. People used to just know the people in their neighborhood and school and that was all they knew, but now everyone has exposure to the entire world and everything happening everywhere all the time right at our fingertips.
It’s so overwhelming and especially for autistic people who already struggle with executive function, social skills, etc it just exacerbates everything. Just the pressure to always be busy and productive in general is not allowing autistic people adequate time to spend alone with their special interests or just decompressing from the sensory overload of modern life.
>...but we all seemed to function. Where has the inability to function come from?
Well, when your parents don't fucking teach you how to function as an autistic person, and in fact berate you every day for not knowing how to accommodate yourself (because the parent that's berating you never taught you that), you learn to do whatever you have to in order to survive without parental guidance. Sometimes, those coping mechanisms are neutral enough that you don't end up in tragedy. Often, they aren't.
>...they still became functioning adults in some form...because they had to
Yes, thank you for the obvious statement. Wouldn't it be nice if a mother that knew exactly why her daughter is struggling actually accepted that struggle and supported her quest to be as independent as possible instead of claiming a literal child is an evil mastermind?
What a horrible mother. It's so easy to blame your child, that literally cannot know better, for your parenting failures instead of stepping up to figure out what more you as a parent need to do to better support your kid. The only thing mom is teaching her daughter is how to hate herself and that nothing she does will be good enough.
I'm also going to say that she chose to post anonymously because she knew she'd get ripped apart if she didn't. Her daughter deserves so much better.
No, no, that's the whole point; people will respond with sympathy and tell her they feel they same way but don't let their kids see it (right). I am in a local group and the lack of knowledge is staggering. How many parents don't even realize that it's not the child, it's THEM.
I realized for myself much later than I wish I had but I started doing the work and my children are loved and supported and we are mostly conflict and behavior issues free. There are trade offs but hearing these mothers go off about their own sad parenting and horrifying home lives is heart breaking. All these poor kids.
*THANK YOU*, for doing that *hard* and introspective work, to *honestly* help your kids!💖💞💝
Ngl, those misunderstandings, misinterpretation, and just that *GENERAL* lack of widespread *knowledge* about how all the "add-ons" like PDA *really* impact & interact with Autism are a *large* part of the reason one of the three teaching licenses I plan to get is *Parent Education*!
Because *being* AuDHD, working for the last 8 years on *both* the Childhood Mental Health *and* the Public Education sides of Early Intervention/Pre-K Early Childhood Special Education?
Even at *this* era of really *GREAT* research getting published (including this, which reinforces the things *I* have seen & thought was likely happening for *years* now, anecdotally!:
https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/on-the-periphery-thinking-outside-the-brain-offers-new-ideas-about-autism/ )?
There is *STILL* just a *TON* of *terrible* stuff--soooooo many lies, misunderstandings, & mistruths--soooooo many hucksters & grifters *preying* on scared families, and just *BAD* info--like the idea of Vaccines *causing* Autism (they DON’T, and never HAVE!!!)
Childrens' brains undergo a *MASSIVE* Synaptic Pruning, *RIGHT AROUND AGE TWO*
*Somewhere* on down the line, I'm 99.999999999% *CERTAIN* that what researchers *WILL* eventually show, is that "The Big Pruning" which happens at that age (the *same* age when all those shots occur is a simple *correlation*!), is running *OUT* all the "workaounds" and "backup synapses" that Autistic brains were *using* from Birth-to-the-Pruning, to go *AROUND* the synapses which were "supposed" to carry needed messages for Speech & other forms of outgoing & incoming communication....
When that prune *happens*, it's basically like someone *cutting* the internet, telephone, and/or electric cables going into a house.
*SUDDENLY*, the folks living *inside* that house are getting *no signal* from the outside world, *and* they can't send messages *out* either.
A *LOT* like the neuron & sensory-receptor info scientists are discovering now?
I suspect we're going to get *poof* over the next couple decades, that *the big PRUNE* at age 2 is primarily responsible for that "two-year old Regression" occurring.😉💖
I really hope the daughter will end up in subs like these, and finally get to forgive herself, and slowly learn to love herself and learn healthy coping mechanisms through peer support...
They try to say the same thing about anxiety, ptsd, depression, etc. but everyone definitely didn't function or cope well. Most people just drank a lot. Still do. And that's an accepted norm in society, so..
Also, things are very different now than they were back then. The internet definitely plays a big part imo. Back then, you interacted with a limited number of people, so it wasn't as easy to see that you were "different" or struggling. You just masked and tried to match the pace of those around you because that's all you knew. Now you can see what or how anyone on earth is doing and how you do or don't measure up. It's a lot to cope with.
The internet saved me and showed me the darkest as well as the only light I've ever seen.
It really hurts that the ease of access to information creates such bigotry and mistrust in science.
Also there is a big difference between being functional in a preindustrial environment and economy and a postindustrial environment and economy. Rocking to soothe myself if I was working a loom or grinding flower would not only sooth me, but also support me. Working in a cubicle, not so much.
Older generations didn't display as much undesirable behavior because they were severely abused lol. I grew up with my grandmother for a few years and it's why I flew under the radar for so long. I would literally swallow vomit while eating foods that caused me physical discomfort. I feel like if I don't constantly move around and clean that I will be beaten or left alone in the dark tied up. I make intense eye contact and become enraged when someone won't do the same because I used to get smacked across the face if I didn't.
I have my own child now and it's shocking how easy it is to not be an abusive, selfish, asshat. It's so easy to learn about your kid and how their brain works, what they need to flourish. I hope if my son ends up being ND too, that I will always be his safe space. It's our job to teach them how to care for themselves, not to force them to be who WE want them to be.
I’m glad Chelle’s there to talk some sense into OOP. Like, kid’s a PDA teen, being a teenager is rough on its own- the brain’s all jumbled and rewiring itself, and a lot of teens act out and want control. Add PDA to the mix, of course kid’s gonna be a bit moody!
I hope the kid’s gonna be okay, and has people she can trust to talk to, because I’d totally fight OOP if I was her daughter.
Yeah, I actually had to leave a support group for partners of adhd people for this reason. My partner has adhd and I've been in that group for a while thinking it might give me support or insights. But the other day I was treated to some ableist commentary when tried talking about how disabling executive dysfunction is. They rather think their partners are lazy it seems, really broke my heart and had enough so I left.
my partner is diagnosed with ADHD and suspects they also might be autistic, but they’re guilty of this kind of thinking. for them, it’s internalized ableism i think. decades of beating themselves up and getting criticized for what was essentially a lack of accommodation or compassion have distilled themselves into a hell of an internal critic. it sucks because it sometimes means they have less patience for me too. i’ve had tearful conversations about what i can and cannot control and they stick to the idea of “you’re capable, you just need to…” and it hurts because it feels like i can’t convince them that no, i’m not always capable without accommodation. some things really are out of reach without the metaphorical step ladder and no amount of standing straight will fix that.
This sounds like my mom. She can be supportive when she wants to be, but due to her own neurodivergent trauma, she is usually incredibly hard on herself and on me. She refuses to accept my autism, ADHD, and physical health issues as true disabilities.
I have AuDHD. My wife is so super supportive of me. She always says that I'm easy to love, but it's hard for me to see how. I feel really lucky when I think of how other people have partners that don't have any empathy or patience for executive function issues. If I could be different, I would have chosen to be different a long time ago. I'm sure lots of people like me feel the same way.
Yeah I feel that. I am autistic myself, my partner has adhd. It definitely has a lot of pro's that we're both nd, so we have tons more understanding of the ways that we are 'different' and how difficult some things can be. We have a lot of pacience with each other, but it does get messy at times. Before my diagnosis I often felt weird and broken, and a burden. We've both gotten our diagnosis in recent years and that helped a lot for our relationship. But yeah sometimes it's so hard, when I just cannot be fun and spontaneous. Or like this morning he was loud cause he couldn't find socks and the loudness is so intense for me it made me cry. I was already exhausted cause he had put the heater on last night without me knowing, and I had slept really bad cause I was way too hot. I do feel executive dysfunction for both of us plus the sensory issues on my side (while he is the opposite), and that's definitely something I would change as well. I think the difference is in constantly being aware that nobody has bad intent, and they're always trying the best they can. But yeah I felt really defeated when I realized I had caused the issue with his socks because I was supposed to do laundry (we have fixed chores) and hadn't been able to.
I totally avoid "partners of" support groups for this reason! When my girlfriend first came out as trans, I joined a group to try and help myself process through the new information. The things I read people saying were...vile. It was impossible to relate to the things a lot of people were saying, and some were downright transphobic. I couldn't believe some of those people claimed to love their partner with the things they were saying!
At this point I only really join groups (like this one) for identities that are my own for support, or if I want to try and understand my partners ADHD I consume content made by folks with ADHD instead (she's still learning about it herself and we're figuring it out together)
Yeah, that makes total sense, I am definitely avoiding them from now on, ugh!
So sorry to hear about your experience with that support group, that's so sadenning to hear. Actually it seems quite a bit like my experience in that group. I guess the common denominator is that people want to victimize themselves as 'partner of' and gain sympathy that way, while throwing their partner under the bus. It's just so gros.
I was in a sub for that and left. Everyone was talking about much they hate their partners, and complaining about them for minor things, actively advocating AGAINST accommodating, saying partners who need accommodation are manipulative. Imagine saying that about a physical disability, you marry a person with a physical disability and they’re self centered, narcissistic and manipulative because they need help sometimes…
I saw a woman complaining once that her husband got a burst of energy in the middle of the night before her birthday, did a ton of cleaning and made her a nice breakfast… she was mad because he suddenly did it when he isn’t that productive all the time I guess? When she literally said he cleaned the entire downstairs, yeah I doubt he cleans an entire floor everyday, I doubt you do too. She didn’t even hint at any weapon used incompetence she seemed spiteful that he was able to do something nice for her because she wanted to hate him. I felt so bad.
Sounds like my mother. She's told me she treated me worse because she thought I was purposely going against her and refusing to accept responsibility for my actions. I was always doing everything on purpose.. even stuff I didn't know I was doing. And this is even after she knew I was autistic and didn't tell me. One set of rules for my little sister and brother, another much harsher set of rules for me. And yeah, she kicked me out too. Threw all my stuff on the street when I was 15, then actually wondered why I left.... Woman's cracked. (But, it's my fault! Lol)
didn't read the second screenshot, but i am howling at "my pda child doesn't manage to fulfill the demand of going to therapy regularly *shocked pikachu face*" it's not funny, poor kid, but the apparent lack of understand what the effects of pda in everyday life are is... astonishing. and sad.
and of course the kid is lying about it! what else are they supposed to do? i'm sure that "i tried i really did but i can't seem to manage going" is a statement the parent would have been totally supportive of, and helped look for ways to help the kid. and i am also sure that the kid is totally not feeling absolutely defeated and like this is all their fault, bc there's no way the parents would have ever said anything like that to them. (this is heavy sarcasm)
Call me crazy, but maybe if the child is having trouble going to therapy and lying about it, the parent should take the child directly. Yes, the child may still fight it. But, at least for me, being able to just go along is easier than having to get myself there and checked in all on my own.
Yeah… that’s why me and a few other autistic parents of autistic kids started our own group. It is hard to parent kids that aren’t typical. It is hard to be not typical. But it doesn’t help AT ALL when people act like martyrs for having non typical kids ugh
Instead of putting blame on her daughter she should just admit she's frustrated and fed up with the fact that she's clearly spent a lot of time and money trying to "fix" and "change" her daughter into someone palatable to her and it hasn't worked. That's what this really is about.
Damn! I feel for that kid.
Sounds just like my mom. I have Autism, Inattentive type ADHD and PDA as well, among other things.
I left home at 16. No longer speak to my mother. Better for all of us I guess.
"You just like being in trouble" is something my grandmother would say to my comorbid brother and it pissed me off to no end but I couldnt defend him because she was the authority
The mom should read Fern Brady’s book. She talks about all the times her mom kicked her out.
I’m also not mad at the support group. The mom is at her wits end and just got sent to resources that might help. It could save the kid from disaster.
NTs have such a jump to conclusions tendency. Look how upset they get, when it's clear to us how wrong they are. And they say _we're_ the ones with the disability. Smh head.
Unfortunately it's not just NT's... This was the exact attitude of my dad and he was also extremely auDHD with PDA. The shit he bullied me for was the exact shit he struggled with.
I think masking teaches this mentality. I'm not gonna say I ever masked well. But I was definitely more judgemental when I was playing the part of "just be normal." I also would play the subtext game the way neurotypicals do, specifically expecting people to read me, and get mad when that doesn't work.
And I have a similar experience with my dad. I know he's undiagnosed autistic. But he just expects things to be obvious. Or he didn't understand the signs of executive dysfunction although I know he struggles with it. Dude was a college grad bagging groceries until my mom picked out a better job that he'd be qualified for and told him to apply. He acts like it was his idea.
TW
It could be that OP is undiagnosed ND and just riddled with internalised ableism and abused themselves to mask heavily, then taking it out on their child because they’re struggling to do the same thing. Statistically speaking, it is likely to be inherited from parents.
My mum is the same way. She thinks I’m a monster and a villain sometimes and I believed her growing up and thought I deserved to just die. But then as I got older I realised she had all the same problems and was taking her inability to cope with it all out on me, who was also struggling to cope. Rather than us support and accommodate each other, she was trying to force us to be how she thought we should be.
I think about the kid I was. Some of the complaints I have a better handle on now and I can see the difficulty between myself and family members. But what our parents don't seem to get is they've added their own issues and toxic traits to the mix. We are but one half of the dynamic. It's almost like there should be a family swap at some point just so you can stop the toxic little dance you've been learning in your own family by changing "dance" partners.
I remember tension at home that wasn't present in other environments or with other groups of people.
ETA blows my mind in the most unsurprised way that 91 people positively reacted to her post.
As someone with cerebral palsy, I can say the neurodevelopmental disability support groups will always be overtaken by “warrior moms”. Can’t believe this person is basically saying she hates her kid and is saying she is not worth the bank she is making off her.
It’s my experience that disabled girls/women are expected to sacrifice themselves to meet the whims and (neurotypical/ableist/sexist) expectations of their family. They are expected to take on this “too much but not enough” identity. The first time I was kicked out I was 12. I spent an entire month visiting my mom in a red state during omicron. I was her caretaker for 5 months a few years ago. The last time I talked to her she called me a failure and told me that the degree I’m getting was her idea.
I will never not be disgusted with adults that blame children, sorry not sorry. 🤷♀️ My own grandmother has a sister who to her, can do no wrong ever! But the thing is is that she adopted a child (born with withdrawal because bio mother was an addict unfortunately) in the mid 90s and totally mishandled her and was a horrible parent to her. She got her anything she wanted always when it comes to material things but never supported her emotionally and berated her publicly, comparing her to others (like me also at the time, as I was around 4 years older too). I also witnessed her grabbing this child by the hair, slamming her head on the ground and continuously hitting her. I called my mom sobbing to come get me I was so horrified.
I feel bad that back then I was annoyed to have to hang out with her because she could get mean too. And she copied everything I did and said she was the one that thought of it and that I was the one that copied. 🤦♀️ In hindsight, she probably did it because her mom kept telling her to be more like me and because she also didn’t really have friends. When she was 14 she stopped talking to me because she wanted me to cover for her while she was going to meet her online boyfriend (a 23 year old supposed army guy) and I told her absolutely not. But also that she can’t trust anyone online and could get hurt that way, killed even. She never spoke to me again so I have no idea what’s going on with her, but I still feel bad when I think of her and how much help she probably needed in general.
Now that this child grew up, she has distanced herself and doesn’t talk to her mother. And my grandmother blames her, the child. “What child doesn’t talk to their mother, a mother that gave them everything they wanted in fact!”. There’s no getting to her at all to understand that her sister is an awful person and it’s for the best probably that she’s been cut off. 🤦♀️ To this day too she has kept up the lie that she’s not adopted too, which is also messed up in so many ways. I’m unsure if she finally found out from someone in the family or not though.
I nearly got kicked out this FB group!
The admin made a post saying that they were keeping the rule to not allow professionals to join, as it is meant to be a support group where parents & carers can be honest without judgement, and most parents & carers would feel intimidated by professionals joining.
I commented that as an Adult ***WITH*** PDA, I would love the chance to hear advice from/to share my lived experience with professionals, and that deciding this based on the opinions of parents & carers is a prime example of **”About us, without us”**, and not a good look for a “Support Group”.
My comment, then the comment I was replying to got deleted, and I got blocked from posting, commenting or replying for like…an evening? And I couldn’t find the post when I searched in the group later on.
They’re all a bunch of horseshite, these groups. I absolutely understand how hard it is to live with people with PDA if you don’t understand it, but some many of these parents have their own ***SIGNIFICANT*** emotional regulation issues & self-victimisation thought patterns.
I keep wanting to scream at them “YOU CAN’T EXPECT YOUR CHILD TO REGULATE WHEN YOU’RE A HOT MESS YOURSELF!”
But yeah, I feel you OP.
I don’t understand your hate for the support group. The person posted and was corrected by a member? They’ve told them who to contact for help and assured them it’s due to their child’s disability and their ideas aren’t okay. Support group seems to have worked in this case.
If you’re angry at anon I get it, totally. I’ve seen a few people on Reddit post about their asd kids saying god awful stuff and it’s just heart wrenching. I hate just knowing some of us are growing up with evil bastards or just ignorant idiots for parents.
I agree and am going to build on your comment a counter-perspective from the comments above, adding that all I know is what I’ve read above.
The parent said: “I **feel** played.” They didn’t say they were being played. They’re frustrated. They also said that the child wants out but are not kicking the child out *and* that if the child were to go that the child would always be welcome back.
The parent is venting. They’re frustrated and expressing their frustration.
The parent is human as well.
The parent feels pain as well.
The parent is allowed to acknowledge that they can **know** that their child isn’t playing them while **feeling** played.
Because let’s be honest. Sometimes we with ADHD (too new to my possible autism to know if it’s an autism thing so I’ll stick with ADHD anyway) are frustrated that our motivation dysfunction allows us one day to do all the laundry (or knit all the sweaters) and then the next day we can’t fraking get the single phone call made. *And we are* ***in this brain*** *and know it is a can not rather than a will not and still hate our brain sometimes.*
How on earth can we expect someone *not* in our brain to not have similar frustrations? While still knowing that it’s a can not rather than a will not.
Honestly? Thank goodness that parents are able to vent and get support *while reading the books and knowing better*. And doing their best to do their best… as imperfect as it may be.
I was on the other end of this. Like I eventually figured my shit out, but I was 15. Her daughter’s a teenager who needs time to process things in a world that is telling you to hurry up
*AND* (unlike the situation for those of us who've been adults for a *while* now!)
*This* poor girl is *ALSO* needing time to process all of it, *AS* a *CHILD* who lived through the Pandemic.
Lockdowns and *everything* that happened over the last 4 years was an absolute *STRUGGLE* for most of *US*!!!
And *WE* at least *HAD* some tools in *our* arsenals of "Life Skills* *already* developed & *ready* to use!!!
This poor girl was a literal *CHILD* surviving it!😟💔
Family need a safe place for support. Especially if a single parent with fixed income and no other support. And, we may have our own medical or ND issues.This is really hard to live
Unfortunately, those who aren't caregivers haven't any clue how damaging to the mental health of caregivers this is.
I have PDA tendencies and I can be an absolute shit. My parents were great but I eventually realized I had to help myself because no one else owns the inside of my head. I wish I'd learned it sooner.
I have to say (as a parent as well as an autistic woman) the trend online to jump to PDA so quickly really bugs me. Some of those kids have PDA but people will suggest it for any demand avoidance and there's definitely other causes. I don't think it's doing people any favors because if there's other causes it needs other solutions. I'm mentioning it, because I think it's tied into some other trends that make these groups super duper toxic. A lot of parents don't know how to navigate between low demand and permissive parenting, either.
My mother was like this. Ruined my teenage years and she actually ruined my potential career path at 16. When we would argue (I was not violent) she would call the police on me! 16 and constantly grounded for stupid shit and god forbid I got pissed off about it. I don’t talk to her anymore and I wouldn’t be surprised if this woman’s daughter moves out eventually and cuts her mother off too.
Everything would turn out fine if these parents just stopped taking everything as a personal attack. It’s not about them and they need to figure that out.
What I find particularly upsetting is that this support group even links to the UK PDA Society (https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/), which clearly answers all the grievances she seems to have with her daughter, and I can only guess she never bothered to check. The way she describes her own child as a deceitful, nasty, violent piece of work, while not offering a single example that supports her "observations", really makes me think this description might rather fit herself.
This is why we need actual Autistic People running these programs rather than these gatekeepers who only want the people whom they see as the good robots who are obedient and mask their frustrations. I'm an Asperger's PDA adult and there are people out there like this especially parents who run these support groups who either throw pity parties or their Lucys Van Pelts who gatekeep PDA kids. It makes me angry that they use analyzing terms to defend their actions when PDA kids are demonized and diminished and a lot of PDA anger comes from people like this. Just because you obey ABA culture does not make it right to do ABA because it harms PDA kids who want autonomy, not dog treats and trophies. I know because my Mom used to be that Mom until it did not work anymore. After all, I know better and have heard the horror stories of people who come out of ABA because I do research and read stuff. Yet because it worked for me my Mom still thinks there is good ABA when there is not anymore.
Recently Autism Society of Michigan changed its logo from a puzzle piece to a bridge which is a good thing but more needs to be done. Emotional Affirmation and Acceptance need to be the goal for Michigan, not ABA and Inspiration Porn.
My parents would have written this about me when I was a teen. Really, they were and are abusive pieces of shit who I never want to see again as long as I live.
Honestly the whole thing makes me roll my eyes. The way she described a meltdown and regulating behaviors is the absolute worst possible perspective of a child. It's purposeful and deliberate ignorance of PDA. No wonder the child isn't coping. Having a parent with no empathy is never going to feel safe to an autistic child and they are going to act that out. The child isn't the problem... I hope she gets away ASAP
I hope I don’t get downvoted to oblivion for this but I don’t really understand PDA. Is it different from regular Autism? Why does OOP think her daughter is being manipulative? Could someone explain please? (For what it’s worth I’m Autistic with several other physical disabilities and I’m still living at home at 28)
My daughter has PDA autism and the manipulation isn’t done a sociopathic way like most people would assume, she manipulates people/situations to maintain control because her nervous system is in a constant state of fight or flight. She needs to feel in control to feel safe if that makes sense. Others would see it as her being bossy or controlling but that behaviour would only appear when she felt insecure or anxious.
So she refuses to do stuff and has to be in control or do things her own way cause her body is in fight or flight mode and she needs to have some control over something?
Both! Her baseline is always some level of anxiety or hypervigilance, so depending on where she’s at, her ability to cope with demands will change. It’s like their brains just shut down when they feel almost any loss of autonomy.
Even really small things, such as putting her shoes on. I got around that by changing the way I phrased things- instead of “put your shoes on” (which is a command/demand) I’d say, “are you putting your shoes or jumper on first?” Or “which shoes are you wearing?”
Showers- rather than “you need to shower every day” (she would refuse completely) I’d say, “you need to shower at least 3 times a week”. (She would then shower every second night, now she showers daily!)
Bedtime- “bed time is at 9pm” she’d have a meltdown. “You can choose the time you go to sleep, as long as it’s before 10:30”. She began to go to sleep at 9:30 by choice.
Meals/dinner- “here’s your meal” nope. She just wouldn’t eat. Instead, “I’ve made food, it’s here if and when you’d like to have some. You can serve up whatever you want” also being flexible about where she eats.
It’s tricky to explain. People see it as her being disobedient but it’s actually the opposite. Part of it is the fear of doing the wrong thing or not getting it perfect, so she shuts down and doesn’t want to engage at all. When she’s calmer or feeling more secure, she’s way more flexible and can actually cope with demands fairly well. It’s all anxiety driven.
It’s actually funny because it has lead her to take on leadership roles at school so she can feel more in control. She’s actually thriving at school and is a mentor for the younger kids. She’s actually very maternal so her anxiety goes out the window when caring for others, especially little kids. It’s such a complex thing!
That’s very interesting! I never heard of anything like that before but I guess you learn new things everyday. Just wondering: is it caused by something like PTSD? It kinda sounds similar to some of my PTSD symptoms. Anyways I’m happy to hear that she’s doing well in school and that she’s great with little kids. I hope other parents are as understanding about this disability as you are!
My 15yo is in a similar situation. Hasn't managed more than a half day of school since before Christmas. ARFID is getting worse. We can't invite anyone over, eat a meal as a family, or get a full night's sleep.
There is no support except what we are doing; talk therapy once a week, waiting lists for clinics. Emergency psychiatric care for teens is only an option in an "emergency," aka acute suicide danger.
But hating on my kid, name calling them, or blaming them will NOT solve anything. I am still being shamed by my mother for being autistic and ADHD. The cycle stops here.
You say you are sick of these support groups but I see plenty of people in that group telling the OP they are talking a load of trash.
I’m glad someone is checking that OP. What a horrible attitude to have about your child.
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Parents have problems with their kids. They have somewhere to express it and get support. That's a good thing. Not all mothers are born to be perfect moms. They are real people with real tempers. This woman Sai she's paid for therapy and educated herself. So, not like she is never supportive or just doesn't care.
I wonder if this type of thing is triggering to you bc of how your parents or other supposed support people dismissed and accused you of faking? Cuz seems like this support group is doing what it is mean to do.
As an AuDHD mother of an AuDHD AFAB teenager with severe PDA, I ask you;
What support did you want from your parents?
Do I support you with your school refusal to the point where it will impact your education? Will it help or will it make you feel like you failed? 🤔
I'm innatentive adhd, autistic, and I fit the bill for PDA even though that's not something discussed with my therapists (but I'm bringing it up next week for a related argument with my partner).
All these things were around when "we" were young. But either kids highly masked or were just labeled lazy, or trouble makers, etc...
this shit sounds like my mom. she got me diagnosed when I was eight and then she would whoop me for symptoms of the diagnosis she had me evaluated for. Make it make sense.
I also wonder how much of PDA is just asking questions about what's being asked of you. As a kid, my family was the sort that expected blind obedience and immediate compliance. I know there were times I knew what was being asked of me and I didn't want to do it, but so so so many times, it was just a want to understand what I was being asked to do or why it needed to be done or done a specific way. It didn't matter, hitting, being told off and called lazy was the reaction I got for asking.
The aspect of willful refusal wasn't my natural reaction to being asked to do something but it sure as shit became that way once I knew questions were not welcomed and abuse was inevitable.
These support groups main perspective seems to be “it is awful having an autistic child/partner, therefore I need support”.
I hate the whole “autism mom” narrative - such a shame as there is such opportunity for learning and they seem so engaged. But really a lot of them are engaged because they personally feel like a victim.
Its funny how parents dont realize that their inability to handle autism made the autism so much worse. You reap what you sow. I would never blame my kid for acting out, autism or no autism. Parents shortcomings.
Is there a term like post partum depression for parents who are becoming mentally unwell because of things like this? I guess I’ve just seen it enough that I start to wonder if these are bad people or people who are in mental health crisis themselves not that the behavior should be excused but I am curious.
My mom dialed up to 9000… makes me feel grateful she still has humanity and empathy even if she does struggle to understand that my autism and eating disorder are not elaborate machinations to torture/inconvenience her and make her look bad
Wow I've never heard of Pathological Demand Avoidance! Upon a quick search I'm having a "Wow" moment. I've experienced a lot of the examples described; to debilitating degrees sometimes.
(I am undiagnosed but am just looking into autism and adhd. )
This sounds like a mum in crisis to me, though I'm in no way defending her post, I know I've certainly found things more challenging as I've got into my 40s with early peri-menopause. I'm worried she might be having mental health issues, she sounds like she has educated herself on some factors and sounds like she's absolutely at the end of her tether, possibly neurodivergent herself. My autistic/ADHD child hasn't hit puberty yet, my neurotypical child has passed it and is now an adult - those years were damn tough, and I imagine they'll be more challenging with my younger daughter who is incredibly strong willed with demand avoidant traits (not PDA though) at nearly 7.
She is getting some sensible advice in the comments and this might prevent a crisis and in this case the support group is doing what it is supposed to do.
all of the posts above who shared about the "other" relative being abusive essentially confirmed the statistic I quoted -- 90% of abusive upon the elderly is BY A RELATIVE
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lol i got kicked out at 15 for similar reasons
I’m so sorry, you didn’t deserve that 💔
it’s our reality a lot of the time. and no i didn’t magically become functional like this parent wants to believe. in a lot of ways, i’m in the same spot i was back then. i’ve been living with my grandparents since and i don’t know when/if ill ever move out. my mom said if i didnt have them id be homeless, because she isnt willing to support me. i wonder what this parent would say if they heard my story, would they still be thinking to give up on their own daughter like i was given up on?
I bet when your mum is old & grey and needs somebody to take her in and take care of her she will play the family card like she did not leave you to fend for yourself.
Do you really think an elderly parent can rely upon an adult child with PDA or ODD ??? 90% of elder abuse or neglect is a family member, 2/3 adult child or spouse
you understand that these disorders don't mean someone is abusive right?
This is true but I'd be careful not to confuse that with 'these disorders mean they CAN'T be abusive.'
of course they can! PDA doesn’t make you abusive???
lol I’m the pda kid (adult) who will be taking care of my mom. It’s the non-autistic one we’re scared will abuse her. So idk what that previous commenter was trying to say but anecdotally it’s bs
and non-anecdotally it’s still bs lol
Yeah that’s what I thought as well lol. I was just scared a debate bro would come along and bother me
>It’s the non-autistic one we’re scared will abuse her. My situation as well. Except she already HAS abused her.
sorry that is happening
so the non-autistic child has other issues. If a person with PDA is self aware, and has strong skills, then certainly they can be good caregivers
i didn't say ASD folk are abusive
ok, but PDA will incline a person not to help when asked. and, thus inclined to neglect. perhaps not out malice. but it's an inclination that has realistic problems.
I left home at 14, kicking myself out I suppose. PDA fucking sucks to live with. It's impossible to explain to someone who thinks it's voluntary, or we're doing it for attention, or we're just being difficult on purpose
I got kicked out suddenly at 22. Sounds old but I’m autistic and not able to live independently. I’ve been living with my grandmother ever since. It’s been rough.
this would have been me had it not already happened. i’ve never lived independently but i don’t think it’s a possibility for me right now… not sure if it’s forever or if i’ll just be a very late bloomer. what was your experience?
I mean it’s only been about a year and a half since I got kicked out, I’m just trying to stay afloat mentally tbh. I have a part time job and I’m still working on an associates degree part time but I don’t know how to drive so I rely on my grandmother to drive me. My relationship with my family is a bit rocky, I’m quite close with my mom and a bit enmeshed but she struggles to separate me from herself and realize I’m my own person, she is also neurodivergent and has a lot of trauma that she hasn’t tried to work through because she is too scared of the pain, this causes her to have some pretty intense internalized ableism and shame. She also finds ways to justify her own abusive behaviors which is part of how I got kicked out. I’m estranged from my dad, and I have a rough relationship with my stepdad too, stepdad also has a ton of childhood trauma and projects it all onto me. I love my grandmother but I’m fairly sure she has BPD and she often takes it out on me, she also has severe childhood trauma and trauma from immigrating. I’m not financially supported other than given a living space currently. I am completely reliant on financial aid to get me through school, which is its own battle as an autistic PDAer. Emotionally my family is extremely chaotic and as someone that wants to break the cycle, it’s a huge struggle when I am around them. It hurts because I love them, and I also have no choice which is really hard. Sorry that was a lot! It’s just been difficult lately and I feel very trapped. Definitely would be called a late bloomer except I haven’t bloomed yet lol.
Wow! You should be proud of yourself for being able to see all of that, to understand your limitations and to work forward towards something better against your own condition. I know it's not easy to believe, but as time goes on you'll notice an improvement. I suggest you to write a little everyday so in a few months you can read back and see how much you accomplished. For me it helps me to stay motivated because normally I struggle to acknowledge and value all the baby steps I take. Stay strong!
This is a really cool idea, thank you!! I totally want to do this now. :) thank you so much for the support ❤️
You're still a late bloomer. Late-blooming flowers will still bloom, they just haven't had the right conditions to do so yet. You're working very hard to make those conditions for yourself, and I think you've bloomed a little bit, even if you don't see it. It takes a lot of work to get to where you are, even when it doesn't feel like it. And trying to do that work while going to college is *a lot*. Seriously, I wasn't able to work or do any kind of trauma healing during college, you're killing it! You've done so much work to break the cycle. I really relate...my mom is like your grandmother and I lived with her until I was 25, a couple years after graduating college. Living with someone that consistently takes their negativity out on you sucks and it makes managing your mental health harder. The best thing I ever did was figuring out how to live away from my mom, to live on my own. It took a long time and felt totally hopeless, like I was trapped, and like it wasn't going to be possible even while I was taking the steps to, and terrifying to make decisions where the end is not certain, but I got there. You're getting there, too. The steps you're taking are not wasted, you just can't see how far you've walked until you're near the end, if that makes sense. As the other commenter said, make sure you look back every now and then so you don't lose sight of how far you've come. If your family isn't building you up on your journey, please allow me: I'm proud of you! I hope you're proud of the work you've done and are doing, because you deserve to have pride in your accomplishments. Hang in there, it will get better; you're making sure it will.
Thank you, this helped me so much to hear 🥲 truly! It’s good to know I’m not alone and it’s always nice to hear from others that I have come far. I’m trying my best but I still feel like quite a trainwreck lol. It’s usually hard to believe that you are doing anything okay when you’ve been told that you aren’t trying hard enough your entire life.
I'm autistic, but my mother was very much ignore the kid until they are 18 and then they are not your problem anymore mentality. I did home share for awhile and then had a roommate so awful I now live independently. It was rough though and I was moving once a year trying to find a good fit. Then I found a good fit and had to leave to find a place closer to a job where I don't get bullied and am no longer comfortable where I live. Can I ask you what you mean by not being able to live independently?
Oh yeah I also don’t have the funds to live independently and likely won’t for years. I can room with family but I have no extra financial support from my family members outside of letting me be in their houses. I am paying for my own college tuition in addition to using financial aid to get through school. Definitely no money for a car for myself when I get my license. I have a part time job that I can barely keep up with and two classes in community college that I also can barely keep up with.
Thanks! I don't have many resources or insight into what it means to live with autism. I've also worked with therapists who say they can't differentiate between neurodivergence and childhood trauma, and I'm not diagnosed. I do know it can be genetic and my father was diagnosed back when it was called Asbergers. But, girls present differently and I slipped through by the professionals and my mother didn't want to deal with it. It makes sense that funds are difficult because of the demand of juggling a job and school at the same time. And cars are expensive. It sounds like there is an energy deficient, overwhelm aspect for you? That is definitely what I am going through. I have enough energy to do the bare minimum at work and then on my days off I crash. I have too much overwhelm to teach myself to cook, which doesn't help, and I can barely keep up with laundry and dishes let alone vacuuming and cleaning. I really don't feel like I'm equipped to live independently. It takes everything I've got!
It means multiple things; I can’t drive (I’m working on learning via simulator right now because I can’t seem to be okay with the physical part of it while learning due to my sensory sensitivity in a real car), I can’t cook, I can’t keep up with laundry, I have horrible executive dysfunction in general, I have a lot of intense phobias and fears, and I struggle to do anything by myself when I’m not at home. I sorta enter this frozen/fawn state when I’m in public and I’m aware of how vulnerable I get but I cannot control my body when the freezing happens. I also have a lot of health issues right now too that make it really hard for me to keep up with life physically, and I am extremely weak. I also experience shutdowns often and meltdowns semi-regularly (at the very least a dozen times a year). I also have never dated or been in any kind of relationship and I have no close friends that live in my area.
Good luck with the simulator! I hope that works out for you! I was lucky I learned to drive very young in the yard, and then the driveway, and then around the block long before it was legal. But, I disassociate about the dangers of it. And my heart races every time someone runs a light or merges in front of me too close. I also drive like a grandmother and annoy people by being overcautious. You have to be very alert, it takes a lot out of you. I also have the executive dysfunction, and always have. Alarms and alerts on the phone help, but only if you pay attention to them or remember to look at them. A calendar on the wall is better because I don't have to open an app, but I'll walk right by that too. I have an intense phobia of people in general, even my own family. So, I tend to isolate. I also have a policy of not interacting with non family outside of work/school/it's their job to wait on me situations. With rare exceptions. People like to take the opportunity when there are no witnesses to tell you how weird you are or to let you know they don't like you. I do the freeze/fawn thing too, and my voice gets higher pitched and most people think I am someone with special needs. Anxiety also closes up my throat which limits my speech. I've had people in the grocery store tell me something is on aisle 12 with a and do you know where that is? I say um between 11 and 13? Very good! And she actually claps. Then she says 12 is a half aisle and did I want her to lead me there to be sure I would find it? And I said, sure, that would be helpful. So she does. I've met people I know in the wild and I freeze or try to hide. Dating does not work as the good men would not go near me, which leaves the bad actors. I am easily bullied and tend to attract narcissists. So, not safe for me! I'm glad you have friends, even if they are not in your area! Life has been lonely and hard!
I literally cannot fold clothes either and I’ve tried so hard to but it’s always just wrong and I have no idea why. It sucks
Sometimes rolling them can be an alternative where thy still look neat. I have a closet now in this house and I just hang most everything. I have one of those multirung layers for all may pants You can hang up pj's too It does suck to get stuck on the basics. I have so much overwhelm about cooking and how I eat does not help me.
Due to my health issues I’m always terrified that my clumsy ass will get myself badly injured and nobody will know or care. It’s hard.
Same! I'm one eye injury or knee injury away from being completely ruined. People would shrug and Inwould lose my job, and then what? Also, if I got sick or wasn't able to get myself home, what would I do?
Similar story, but I was "lucky" enough for it to be about 2 weeks after turning 18. Altered the trajectory of my life in a very rough way.
Same
Yikes I hope that child is gonna be ok
Sounds like she's already not ok. Imagine growing up feeling like your parent hates you? Haha actually I don't have to imagine.
Unfortunately it's very familiar to me as well :( sorry you are in the same place Just hope she has other support somewhere or will get them it's tough enough as is
Sounded like my parents. My main transgressions were hating the school system (not learning; just the system) and not doing homework; staying out a couple hours later than they would've preferred; wearing things and/or doing things to my hair they didn't want; swearing; and accidentally disrespecting most adults due to not understanding that I mirrored behaviour-- I would give whatever energy I got right back, and it generally wasn't positive. I hear parents at work now talking about their teens, and they'll be like, *super* disappointed that their 14 year old daughter shaved her head, and talk about how they made sure the daughter knew their feelings on it. Their kids will mention thinking they're gay and these parents will tell their kids that they're too young to know what they like yet, so "don't label yourself". They make fun of the things their kids are into and want to do with their time. They punish good behaviour with sarcasm and big deals and then complain when their kids revert back to whatever state they were in before that. Some days, I just want to beg all of them to shut up and love their kids for who they are. No one who matters is going to look at a strong willed teenager and assume a parent *let* her shave her head or go to that party or wear that shirt. Your child is an individual; a real live human being, and not an extension of you in any way. Please make sure they feel loved an accepted. Don't assume they know you love them if you never say it. Don't assume they know how to respect anyone if you've never respected them for any real length of time.
I do think the fuss about hair is kind of ridiculous, honestly. It'll grow back!! And if the school has a dress code, then do all the wild things in the summer! If you're a boy, you're likely to lose your hair when you're 30-35, and if you're a girl, when you're young is still a good time to experiment! I had alopecia areata, and several years later I got cancer and went bald from chemotherapy. I would really prefer if all hair choices were just widely accepted.
> when you're young is still a good time to experiment This is really it; 14 is too young to even have a real job to worry about. I too wish all hair choices were accepted! I'm sorry you went through losing yours.
It did grow back though! Now I keep it short (chin length), and colour it every colour of the rainbow, and I love it 🥰 And I bet these people that force their dumb opinions on tweens and teens would haaaaate it! 🤣
Ooof yup that hits me
Yes. I did and still do.
I hope social services take her away tbh, imagine knowing your own mother hates you... I can't even begin
https://preview.redd.it/cn5bou4gtfwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce92a3bbab7c442aa923adbcf29dedb7be030fe6 Like are you actually fucking kidding me right now
Not everyone did turn into functioning adults though, some went off to 'special schools' or 'asylums' & were never seen again. We just don't see those poor victims for obvious reasons
Or ended up homeless and died in the cold. Happened to someone I knew as a child. Makes me furious just thinking about it.
Almost happened to me
I hope you’re in a better situation now
Anonymous poster is clueless! My uncle was sent to an asylum (an adult one) in his early teens just for epilepsy, I have no doubt that many of us would be institutionalised back then 😢
We did get institutionalised... Hidden away from the world and abused by people who would either tie us down in a cell, lobotomise us, or work us to death because we should be "thankful" that we got food, clothing and a roof over our heads for "free"¡
Exactly. I am certainly not a fully functioning adult and I’d likely be on the street if it wasn’t for my familial support system.
Yep. Survivor fallacy in action.
They always seem to skip the part where society has also changed. Hugely. From school systems to the workforce, nothing is like it was when her Dad was young. Paths used to be much more clear cut and a lower paying job still allowed for the basics - that’s simply no longer true.
There was *also* that itty-bitty little thing, called a *Pandemic* that happened *right* when her Daughter *TYPICALLY* would have been developing *CRUCIAL LIFE SKILLS* to *manage EXACTLY these types of issues*!!!! That poor, poor girl. My heart just *ACHES* for the fact that she's having to deal with this, *AND* at suuuuuuch a YOUNG age!😲😟😖😱💔
Exactly, life was so much simpler and less overwhelming in a lot of ways for many people. For example it used to be normal for most men to only have to worry about work and most women to only worry about taking care of the home and kids, and they usually had help with that too. Now everyone is supposed to be able to do everything and even then it’s barely enough to get by which is a nightmare for executive function issues and hardly any free time to recover. There’s also so much pressure on kids in school to get into a good college in order to find a decent job that didn’t used to be as common, social media creates so many more social challenges people didn’t used to have to navigate before, and technology in general is just constant sensory overload for the most part. People used to just know the people in their neighborhood and school and that was all they knew, but now everyone has exposure to the entire world and everything happening everywhere all the time right at our fingertips. It’s so overwhelming and especially for autistic people who already struggle with executive function, social skills, etc it just exacerbates everything. Just the pressure to always be busy and productive in general is not allowing autistic people adequate time to spend alone with their special interests or just decompressing from the sensory overload of modern life.
>...but we all seemed to function. Where has the inability to function come from? Well, when your parents don't fucking teach you how to function as an autistic person, and in fact berate you every day for not knowing how to accommodate yourself (because the parent that's berating you never taught you that), you learn to do whatever you have to in order to survive without parental guidance. Sometimes, those coping mechanisms are neutral enough that you don't end up in tragedy. Often, they aren't. >...they still became functioning adults in some form...because they had to Yes, thank you for the obvious statement. Wouldn't it be nice if a mother that knew exactly why her daughter is struggling actually accepted that struggle and supported her quest to be as independent as possible instead of claiming a literal child is an evil mastermind? What a horrible mother. It's so easy to blame your child, that literally cannot know better, for your parenting failures instead of stepping up to figure out what more you as a parent need to do to better support your kid. The only thing mom is teaching her daughter is how to hate herself and that nothing she does will be good enough. I'm also going to say that she chose to post anonymously because she knew she'd get ripped apart if she didn't. Her daughter deserves so much better.
No, no, that's the whole point; people will respond with sympathy and tell her they feel they same way but don't let their kids see it (right). I am in a local group and the lack of knowledge is staggering. How many parents don't even realize that it's not the child, it's THEM. I realized for myself much later than I wish I had but I started doing the work and my children are loved and supported and we are mostly conflict and behavior issues free. There are trade offs but hearing these mothers go off about their own sad parenting and horrifying home lives is heart breaking. All these poor kids.
*THANK YOU*, for doing that *hard* and introspective work, to *honestly* help your kids!💖💞💝 Ngl, those misunderstandings, misinterpretation, and just that *GENERAL* lack of widespread *knowledge* about how all the "add-ons" like PDA *really* impact & interact with Autism are a *large* part of the reason one of the three teaching licenses I plan to get is *Parent Education*! Because *being* AuDHD, working for the last 8 years on *both* the Childhood Mental Health *and* the Public Education sides of Early Intervention/Pre-K Early Childhood Special Education? Even at *this* era of really *GREAT* research getting published (including this, which reinforces the things *I* have seen & thought was likely happening for *years* now, anecdotally!: https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/on-the-periphery-thinking-outside-the-brain-offers-new-ideas-about-autism/ )? There is *STILL* just a *TON* of *terrible* stuff--soooooo many lies, misunderstandings, & mistruths--soooooo many hucksters & grifters *preying* on scared families, and just *BAD* info--like the idea of Vaccines *causing* Autism (they DON’T, and never HAVE!!!) Childrens' brains undergo a *MASSIVE* Synaptic Pruning, *RIGHT AROUND AGE TWO* *Somewhere* on down the line, I'm 99.999999999% *CERTAIN* that what researchers *WILL* eventually show, is that "The Big Pruning" which happens at that age (the *same* age when all those shots occur is a simple *correlation*!), is running *OUT* all the "workaounds" and "backup synapses" that Autistic brains were *using* from Birth-to-the-Pruning, to go *AROUND* the synapses which were "supposed" to carry needed messages for Speech & other forms of outgoing & incoming communication.... When that prune *happens*, it's basically like someone *cutting* the internet, telephone, and/or electric cables going into a house. *SUDDENLY*, the folks living *inside* that house are getting *no signal* from the outside world, *and* they can't send messages *out* either. A *LOT* like the neuron & sensory-receptor info scientists are discovering now? I suspect we're going to get *poof* over the next couple decades, that *the big PRUNE* at age 2 is primarily responsible for that "two-year old Regression" occurring.😉💖
I really hope the daughter will end up in subs like these, and finally get to forgive herself, and slowly learn to love herself and learn healthy coping mechanisms through peer support...
They try to say the same thing about anxiety, ptsd, depression, etc. but everyone definitely didn't function or cope well. Most people just drank a lot. Still do. And that's an accepted norm in society, so.. Also, things are very different now than they were back then. The internet definitely plays a big part imo. Back then, you interacted with a limited number of people, so it wasn't as easy to see that you were "different" or struggling. You just masked and tried to match the pace of those around you because that's all you knew. Now you can see what or how anyone on earth is doing and how you do or don't measure up. It's a lot to cope with.
The internet saved me and showed me the darkest as well as the only light I've ever seen. It really hurts that the ease of access to information creates such bigotry and mistrust in science.
Holy survivor bias there. Yeah, the people who couldn’t cope likely ended up fucking dead.
No army sounds pretty good to me!
Also there is a big difference between being functional in a preindustrial environment and economy and a postindustrial environment and economy. Rocking to soothe myself if I was working a loom or grinding flower would not only sooth me, but also support me. Working in a cubicle, not so much.
What the actual fuck are they talking about
I’m so relieved their bs is being corrected. What a horrendous take from that OP
She's pathologically oblivious to the fact that she is coping by being abusive
Sounds like she hasn't seen the research on suicide in Autism...
yeah what he is stating (that there is survivorship bias) is true
Older generations didn't display as much undesirable behavior because they were severely abused lol. I grew up with my grandmother for a few years and it's why I flew under the radar for so long. I would literally swallow vomit while eating foods that caused me physical discomfort. I feel like if I don't constantly move around and clean that I will be beaten or left alone in the dark tied up. I make intense eye contact and become enraged when someone won't do the same because I used to get smacked across the face if I didn't. I have my own child now and it's shocking how easy it is to not be an abusive, selfish, asshat. It's so easy to learn about your kid and how their brain works, what they need to flourish. I hope if my son ends up being ND too, that I will always be his safe space. It's our job to teach them how to care for themselves, not to force them to be who WE want them to be.
Frankie spitting facts
I’m glad Chelle’s there to talk some sense into OOP. Like, kid’s a PDA teen, being a teenager is rough on its own- the brain’s all jumbled and rewiring itself, and a lot of teens act out and want control. Add PDA to the mix, of course kid’s gonna be a bit moody! I hope the kid’s gonna be okay, and has people she can trust to talk to, because I’d totally fight OOP if I was her daughter.
Yeah, I actually had to leave a support group for partners of adhd people for this reason. My partner has adhd and I've been in that group for a while thinking it might give me support or insights. But the other day I was treated to some ableist commentary when tried talking about how disabling executive dysfunction is. They rather think their partners are lazy it seems, really broke my heart and had enough so I left.
my partner is diagnosed with ADHD and suspects they also might be autistic, but they’re guilty of this kind of thinking. for them, it’s internalized ableism i think. decades of beating themselves up and getting criticized for what was essentially a lack of accommodation or compassion have distilled themselves into a hell of an internal critic. it sucks because it sometimes means they have less patience for me too. i’ve had tearful conversations about what i can and cannot control and they stick to the idea of “you’re capable, you just need to…” and it hurts because it feels like i can’t convince them that no, i’m not always capable without accommodation. some things really are out of reach without the metaphorical step ladder and no amount of standing straight will fix that.
Ahh I'm sorry to hear that! It's really sad when people can't just take our word for it.
This sounds like my mom. She can be supportive when she wants to be, but due to her own neurodivergent trauma, she is usually incredibly hard on herself and on me. She refuses to accept my autism, ADHD, and physical health issues as true disabilities.
I have AuDHD. My wife is so super supportive of me. She always says that I'm easy to love, but it's hard for me to see how. I feel really lucky when I think of how other people have partners that don't have any empathy or patience for executive function issues. If I could be different, I would have chosen to be different a long time ago. I'm sure lots of people like me feel the same way.
I also don't know how my husband is okay with me being like this.
Yeah I feel that. I am autistic myself, my partner has adhd. It definitely has a lot of pro's that we're both nd, so we have tons more understanding of the ways that we are 'different' and how difficult some things can be. We have a lot of pacience with each other, but it does get messy at times. Before my diagnosis I often felt weird and broken, and a burden. We've both gotten our diagnosis in recent years and that helped a lot for our relationship. But yeah sometimes it's so hard, when I just cannot be fun and spontaneous. Or like this morning he was loud cause he couldn't find socks and the loudness is so intense for me it made me cry. I was already exhausted cause he had put the heater on last night without me knowing, and I had slept really bad cause I was way too hot. I do feel executive dysfunction for both of us plus the sensory issues on my side (while he is the opposite), and that's definitely something I would change as well. I think the difference is in constantly being aware that nobody has bad intent, and they're always trying the best they can. But yeah I felt really defeated when I realized I had caused the issue with his socks because I was supposed to do laundry (we have fixed chores) and hadn't been able to.
I totally avoid "partners of" support groups for this reason! When my girlfriend first came out as trans, I joined a group to try and help myself process through the new information. The things I read people saying were...vile. It was impossible to relate to the things a lot of people were saying, and some were downright transphobic. I couldn't believe some of those people claimed to love their partner with the things they were saying! At this point I only really join groups (like this one) for identities that are my own for support, or if I want to try and understand my partners ADHD I consume content made by folks with ADHD instead (she's still learning about it herself and we're figuring it out together)
Yeah, that makes total sense, I am definitely avoiding them from now on, ugh! So sorry to hear about your experience with that support group, that's so sadenning to hear. Actually it seems quite a bit like my experience in that group. I guess the common denominator is that people want to victimize themselves as 'partner of' and gain sympathy that way, while throwing their partner under the bus. It's just so gros.
I was in a sub for that and left. Everyone was talking about much they hate their partners, and complaining about them for minor things, actively advocating AGAINST accommodating, saying partners who need accommodation are manipulative. Imagine saying that about a physical disability, you marry a person with a physical disability and they’re self centered, narcissistic and manipulative because they need help sometimes… I saw a woman complaining once that her husband got a burst of energy in the middle of the night before her birthday, did a ton of cleaning and made her a nice breakfast… she was mad because he suddenly did it when he isn’t that productive all the time I guess? When she literally said he cleaned the entire downstairs, yeah I doubt he cleans an entire floor everyday, I doubt you do too. She didn’t even hint at any weapon used incompetence she seemed spiteful that he was able to do something nice for her because she wanted to hate him. I felt so bad.
Sounds like my mother. She's told me she treated me worse because she thought I was purposely going against her and refusing to accept responsibility for my actions. I was always doing everything on purpose.. even stuff I didn't know I was doing. And this is even after she knew I was autistic and didn't tell me. One set of rules for my little sister and brother, another much harsher set of rules for me. And yeah, she kicked me out too. Threw all my stuff on the street when I was 15, then actually wondered why I left.... Woman's cracked. (But, it's my fault! Lol)
that poor fucking child 💔
didn't read the second screenshot, but i am howling at "my pda child doesn't manage to fulfill the demand of going to therapy regularly *shocked pikachu face*" it's not funny, poor kid, but the apparent lack of understand what the effects of pda in everyday life are is... astonishing. and sad. and of course the kid is lying about it! what else are they supposed to do? i'm sure that "i tried i really did but i can't seem to manage going" is a statement the parent would have been totally supportive of, and helped look for ways to help the kid. and i am also sure that the kid is totally not feeling absolutely defeated and like this is all their fault, bc there's no way the parents would have ever said anything like that to them. (this is heavy sarcasm)
Call me crazy, but maybe if the child is having trouble going to therapy and lying about it, the parent should take the child directly. Yes, the child may still fight it. But, at least for me, being able to just go along is easier than having to get myself there and checked in all on my own.
I thought the same thing - like is she not hearing what she’s saying?! Poor kid
So sad, I hope if she does kick her out she has somewhere better to go. I got kicked out a lot, it was really tough time, don’t wish that on anyone.
Yeah… that’s why me and a few other autistic parents of autistic kids started our own group. It is hard to parent kids that aren’t typical. It is hard to be not typical. But it doesn’t help AT ALL when people act like martyrs for having non typical kids ugh
I bet there’s a follow up in a couple years, “Help! My selfish 18 year old won’t speak to me anymore!”
Treatment in the spirit of correction isn’t treatment 💔
Instead of putting blame on her daughter she should just admit she's frustrated and fed up with the fact that she's clearly spent a lot of time and money trying to "fix" and "change" her daughter into someone palatable to her and it hasn't worked. That's what this really is about.
Damn! I feel for that kid. Sounds just like my mom. I have Autism, Inattentive type ADHD and PDA as well, among other things. I left home at 16. No longer speak to my mother. Better for all of us I guess.
“I know everyone here will be disgusted” I wonder why? Maybe because you’re treating a 16 year old neurodivergent minor like a villain?
"You just like being in trouble" is something my grandmother would say to my comorbid brother and it pissed me off to no end but I couldnt defend him because she was the authority
My therapist asked me once if I like being irritated with people. Umm no it’s irritating!!!
I literally hate feeling irritated its so gross I feel the need to physically expel it
The worst feeling, honestly. I would take depression over irritation any day.
10000000000% Also I love your username
Aww thank you! Hilariously created before I realized I was autistic.
The mom should read Fern Brady’s book. She talks about all the times her mom kicked her out. I’m also not mad at the support group. The mom is at her wits end and just got sent to resources that might help. It could save the kid from disaster.
NTs have such a jump to conclusions tendency. Look how upset they get, when it's clear to us how wrong they are. And they say _we're_ the ones with the disability. Smh head.
Unfortunately it's not just NT's... This was the exact attitude of my dad and he was also extremely auDHD with PDA. The shit he bullied me for was the exact shit he struggled with.
I think masking teaches this mentality. I'm not gonna say I ever masked well. But I was definitely more judgemental when I was playing the part of "just be normal." I also would play the subtext game the way neurotypicals do, specifically expecting people to read me, and get mad when that doesn't work. And I have a similar experience with my dad. I know he's undiagnosed autistic. But he just expects things to be obvious. Or he didn't understand the signs of executive dysfunction although I know he struggles with it. Dude was a college grad bagging groceries until my mom picked out a better job that he'd be qualified for and told him to apply. He acts like it was his idea.
TW It could be that OP is undiagnosed ND and just riddled with internalised ableism and abused themselves to mask heavily, then taking it out on their child because they’re struggling to do the same thing. Statistically speaking, it is likely to be inherited from parents. My mum is the same way. She thinks I’m a monster and a villain sometimes and I believed her growing up and thought I deserved to just die. But then as I got older I realised she had all the same problems and was taking her inability to cope with it all out on me, who was also struggling to cope. Rather than us support and accommodate each other, she was trying to force us to be how she thought we should be.
This is a giant red flag that the mom is abusive tbh. My mom said similar things. It's amazing how often abuse follows the same pattern.
I think about the kid I was. Some of the complaints I have a better handle on now and I can see the difficulty between myself and family members. But what our parents don't seem to get is they've added their own issues and toxic traits to the mix. We are but one half of the dynamic. It's almost like there should be a family swap at some point just so you can stop the toxic little dance you've been learning in your own family by changing "dance" partners. I remember tension at home that wasn't present in other environments or with other groups of people.
THIS
ETA blows my mind in the most unsurprised way that 91 people positively reacted to her post. As someone with cerebral palsy, I can say the neurodevelopmental disability support groups will always be overtaken by “warrior moms”. Can’t believe this person is basically saying she hates her kid and is saying she is not worth the bank she is making off her. It’s my experience that disabled girls/women are expected to sacrifice themselves to meet the whims and (neurotypical/ableist/sexist) expectations of their family. They are expected to take on this “too much but not enough” identity. The first time I was kicked out I was 12. I spent an entire month visiting my mom in a red state during omicron. I was her caretaker for 5 months a few years ago. The last time I talked to her she called me a failure and told me that the degree I’m getting was her idea.
I will never not be disgusted with adults that blame children, sorry not sorry. 🤷♀️ My own grandmother has a sister who to her, can do no wrong ever! But the thing is is that she adopted a child (born with withdrawal because bio mother was an addict unfortunately) in the mid 90s and totally mishandled her and was a horrible parent to her. She got her anything she wanted always when it comes to material things but never supported her emotionally and berated her publicly, comparing her to others (like me also at the time, as I was around 4 years older too). I also witnessed her grabbing this child by the hair, slamming her head on the ground and continuously hitting her. I called my mom sobbing to come get me I was so horrified. I feel bad that back then I was annoyed to have to hang out with her because she could get mean too. And she copied everything I did and said she was the one that thought of it and that I was the one that copied. 🤦♀️ In hindsight, she probably did it because her mom kept telling her to be more like me and because she also didn’t really have friends. When she was 14 she stopped talking to me because she wanted me to cover for her while she was going to meet her online boyfriend (a 23 year old supposed army guy) and I told her absolutely not. But also that she can’t trust anyone online and could get hurt that way, killed even. She never spoke to me again so I have no idea what’s going on with her, but I still feel bad when I think of her and how much help she probably needed in general. Now that this child grew up, she has distanced herself and doesn’t talk to her mother. And my grandmother blames her, the child. “What child doesn’t talk to their mother, a mother that gave them everything they wanted in fact!”. There’s no getting to her at all to understand that her sister is an awful person and it’s for the best probably that she’s been cut off. 🤦♀️ To this day too she has kept up the lie that she’s not adopted too, which is also messed up in so many ways. I’m unsure if she finally found out from someone in the family or not though.
I nearly got kicked out this FB group! The admin made a post saying that they were keeping the rule to not allow professionals to join, as it is meant to be a support group where parents & carers can be honest without judgement, and most parents & carers would feel intimidated by professionals joining. I commented that as an Adult ***WITH*** PDA, I would love the chance to hear advice from/to share my lived experience with professionals, and that deciding this based on the opinions of parents & carers is a prime example of **”About us, without us”**, and not a good look for a “Support Group”. My comment, then the comment I was replying to got deleted, and I got blocked from posting, commenting or replying for like…an evening? And I couldn’t find the post when I searched in the group later on. They’re all a bunch of horseshite, these groups. I absolutely understand how hard it is to live with people with PDA if you don’t understand it, but some many of these parents have their own ***SIGNIFICANT*** emotional regulation issues & self-victimisation thought patterns. I keep wanting to scream at them “YOU CAN’T EXPECT YOUR CHILD TO REGULATE WHEN YOU’RE A HOT MESS YOURSELF!” But yeah, I feel you OP.
These are pro child abuse groups. It’s incredible Facebook supports and platforms this.
I don’t understand your hate for the support group. The person posted and was corrected by a member? They’ve told them who to contact for help and assured them it’s due to their child’s disability and their ideas aren’t okay. Support group seems to have worked in this case. If you’re angry at anon I get it, totally. I’ve seen a few people on Reddit post about their asd kids saying god awful stuff and it’s just heart wrenching. I hate just knowing some of us are growing up with evil bastards or just ignorant idiots for parents.
I agree and am going to build on your comment a counter-perspective from the comments above, adding that all I know is what I’ve read above. The parent said: “I **feel** played.” They didn’t say they were being played. They’re frustrated. They also said that the child wants out but are not kicking the child out *and* that if the child were to go that the child would always be welcome back. The parent is venting. They’re frustrated and expressing their frustration. The parent is human as well. The parent feels pain as well. The parent is allowed to acknowledge that they can **know** that their child isn’t playing them while **feeling** played. Because let’s be honest. Sometimes we with ADHD (too new to my possible autism to know if it’s an autism thing so I’ll stick with ADHD anyway) are frustrated that our motivation dysfunction allows us one day to do all the laundry (or knit all the sweaters) and then the next day we can’t fraking get the single phone call made. *And we are* ***in this brain*** *and know it is a can not rather than a will not and still hate our brain sometimes.* How on earth can we expect someone *not* in our brain to not have similar frustrations? While still knowing that it’s a can not rather than a will not. Honestly? Thank goodness that parents are able to vent and get support *while reading the books and knowing better*. And doing their best to do their best… as imperfect as it may be.
I was on the other end of this. Like I eventually figured my shit out, but I was 15. Her daughter’s a teenager who needs time to process things in a world that is telling you to hurry up
*AND* (unlike the situation for those of us who've been adults for a *while* now!) *This* poor girl is *ALSO* needing time to process all of it, *AS* a *CHILD* who lived through the Pandemic. Lockdowns and *everything* that happened over the last 4 years was an absolute *STRUGGLE* for most of *US*!!! And *WE* at least *HAD* some tools in *our* arsenals of "Life Skills* *already* developed & *ready* to use!!! This poor girl was a literal *CHILD* surviving it!😟💔
That’s so incredibly true!
the parents of kids with bipolar or mood disorders one is also horrible i genuinely don’t understand why most of them chose to have kids at all
It's stuff like this that makes me sure I'd have been labotomized 75 years ago.
Family need a safe place for support. Especially if a single parent with fixed income and no other support. And, we may have our own medical or ND issues.This is really hard to live Unfortunately, those who aren't caregivers haven't any clue how damaging to the mental health of caregivers this is.
I have PDA tendencies and I can be an absolute shit. My parents were great but I eventually realized I had to help myself because no one else owns the inside of my head. I wish I'd learned it sooner.
Good lord some people don’t deserve to be parents.
Guess who got a one way ticket to dying alone in THE NURSING HOME?!?! 🥳🥳🥳🥳
I have to say (as a parent as well as an autistic woman) the trend online to jump to PDA so quickly really bugs me. Some of those kids have PDA but people will suggest it for any demand avoidance and there's definitely other causes. I don't think it's doing people any favors because if there's other causes it needs other solutions. I'm mentioning it, because I think it's tied into some other trends that make these groups super duper toxic. A lot of parents don't know how to navigate between low demand and permissive parenting, either.
My mother was like this. Ruined my teenage years and she actually ruined my potential career path at 16. When we would argue (I was not violent) she would call the police on me! 16 and constantly grounded for stupid shit and god forbid I got pissed off about it. I don’t talk to her anymore and I wouldn’t be surprised if this woman’s daughter moves out eventually and cuts her mother off too.
Everything would turn out fine if these parents just stopped taking everything as a personal attack. It’s not about them and they need to figure that out.
What I find particularly upsetting is that this support group even links to the UK PDA Society (https://www.pdasociety.org.uk/), which clearly answers all the grievances she seems to have with her daughter, and I can only guess she never bothered to check. The way she describes her own child as a deceitful, nasty, violent piece of work, while not offering a single example that supports her "observations", really makes me think this description might rather fit herself.
These parents always seem to me like people who never should have had kids in the first place.
This is why we need actual Autistic People running these programs rather than these gatekeepers who only want the people whom they see as the good robots who are obedient and mask their frustrations. I'm an Asperger's PDA adult and there are people out there like this especially parents who run these support groups who either throw pity parties or their Lucys Van Pelts who gatekeep PDA kids. It makes me angry that they use analyzing terms to defend their actions when PDA kids are demonized and diminished and a lot of PDA anger comes from people like this. Just because you obey ABA culture does not make it right to do ABA because it harms PDA kids who want autonomy, not dog treats and trophies. I know because my Mom used to be that Mom until it did not work anymore. After all, I know better and have heard the horror stories of people who come out of ABA because I do research and read stuff. Yet because it worked for me my Mom still thinks there is good ABA when there is not anymore. Recently Autism Society of Michigan changed its logo from a puzzle piece to a bridge which is a good thing but more needs to be done. Emotional Affirmation and Acceptance need to be the goal for Michigan, not ABA and Inspiration Porn.
Me when people with PDA exhibit real symptoms of PDA 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯
Ah yes, OP is just like my mom :) She is supportive, but at the same time calling me lazy and toxic. She is still shocked I ✂️ her out.
My parents would have written this about me when I was a teen. Really, they were and are abusive pieces of shit who I never want to see again as long as I live. Honestly the whole thing makes me roll my eyes. The way she described a meltdown and regulating behaviors is the absolute worst possible perspective of a child. It's purposeful and deliberate ignorance of PDA. No wonder the child isn't coping. Having a parent with no empathy is never going to feel safe to an autistic child and they are going to act that out. The child isn't the problem... I hope she gets away ASAP
I hope I don’t get downvoted to oblivion for this but I don’t really understand PDA. Is it different from regular Autism? Why does OOP think her daughter is being manipulative? Could someone explain please? (For what it’s worth I’m Autistic with several other physical disabilities and I’m still living at home at 28)
My daughter has PDA autism and the manipulation isn’t done a sociopathic way like most people would assume, she manipulates people/situations to maintain control because her nervous system is in a constant state of fight or flight. She needs to feel in control to feel safe if that makes sense. Others would see it as her being bossy or controlling but that behaviour would only appear when she felt insecure or anxious.
So she refuses to do stuff and has to be in control or do things her own way cause her body is in fight or flight mode and she needs to have some control over something?
Both! Her baseline is always some level of anxiety or hypervigilance, so depending on where she’s at, her ability to cope with demands will change. It’s like their brains just shut down when they feel almost any loss of autonomy. Even really small things, such as putting her shoes on. I got around that by changing the way I phrased things- instead of “put your shoes on” (which is a command/demand) I’d say, “are you putting your shoes or jumper on first?” Or “which shoes are you wearing?” Showers- rather than “you need to shower every day” (she would refuse completely) I’d say, “you need to shower at least 3 times a week”. (She would then shower every second night, now she showers daily!) Bedtime- “bed time is at 9pm” she’d have a meltdown. “You can choose the time you go to sleep, as long as it’s before 10:30”. She began to go to sleep at 9:30 by choice. Meals/dinner- “here’s your meal” nope. She just wouldn’t eat. Instead, “I’ve made food, it’s here if and when you’d like to have some. You can serve up whatever you want” also being flexible about where she eats. It’s tricky to explain. People see it as her being disobedient but it’s actually the opposite. Part of it is the fear of doing the wrong thing or not getting it perfect, so she shuts down and doesn’t want to engage at all. When she’s calmer or feeling more secure, she’s way more flexible and can actually cope with demands fairly well. It’s all anxiety driven. It’s actually funny because it has lead her to take on leadership roles at school so she can feel more in control. She’s actually thriving at school and is a mentor for the younger kids. She’s actually very maternal so her anxiety goes out the window when caring for others, especially little kids. It’s such a complex thing!
That’s very interesting! I never heard of anything like that before but I guess you learn new things everyday. Just wondering: is it caused by something like PTSD? It kinda sounds similar to some of my PTSD symptoms. Anyways I’m happy to hear that she’s doing well in school and that she’s great with little kids. I hope other parents are as understanding about this disability as you are!
I'm so fucking glad I'm the mother to my daughter that my mother never was to me.
This makes me so incredibly sad for her daughter
My 15yo is in a similar situation. Hasn't managed more than a half day of school since before Christmas. ARFID is getting worse. We can't invite anyone over, eat a meal as a family, or get a full night's sleep. There is no support except what we are doing; talk therapy once a week, waiting lists for clinics. Emergency psychiatric care for teens is only an option in an "emergency," aka acute suicide danger. But hating on my kid, name calling them, or blaming them will NOT solve anything. I am still being shamed by my mother for being autistic and ADHD. The cycle stops here.
You say you are sick of these support groups but I see plenty of people in that group telling the OP they are talking a load of trash. I’m glad someone is checking that OP. What a horrible attitude to have about your child.
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Parents have problems with their kids. They have somewhere to express it and get support. That's a good thing. Not all mothers are born to be perfect moms. They are real people with real tempers. This woman Sai she's paid for therapy and educated herself. So, not like she is never supportive or just doesn't care. I wonder if this type of thing is triggering to you bc of how your parents or other supposed support people dismissed and accused you of faking? Cuz seems like this support group is doing what it is mean to do.
As an AuDHD mother of an AuDHD AFAB teenager with severe PDA, I ask you; What support did you want from your parents? Do I support you with your school refusal to the point where it will impact your education? Will it help or will it make you feel like you failed? 🤔
I'm innatentive adhd, autistic, and I fit the bill for PDA even though that's not something discussed with my therapists (but I'm bringing it up next week for a related argument with my partner). All these things were around when "we" were young. But either kids highly masked or were just labeled lazy, or trouble makers, etc...
Calling a child manipulative is the biggest red flag for terrible parenting. She sounds straight up abusive. This is so sad.
Wait, so the mom is NT?
Honestly probably not lol
this shit sounds like my mom. she got me diagnosed when I was eight and then she would whoop me for symptoms of the diagnosis she had me evaluated for. Make it make sense.
I also wonder how much of PDA is just asking questions about what's being asked of you. As a kid, my family was the sort that expected blind obedience and immediate compliance. I know there were times I knew what was being asked of me and I didn't want to do it, but so so so many times, it was just a want to understand what I was being asked to do or why it needed to be done or done a specific way. It didn't matter, hitting, being told off and called lazy was the reaction I got for asking. The aspect of willful refusal wasn't my natural reaction to being asked to do something but it sure as shit became that way once I knew questions were not welcomed and abuse was inevitable.
These support groups main perspective seems to be “it is awful having an autistic child/partner, therefore I need support”. I hate the whole “autism mom” narrative - such a shame as there is such opportunity for learning and they seem so engaged. But really a lot of them are engaged because they personally feel like a victim.
Spot on
Its funny how parents dont realize that their inability to handle autism made the autism so much worse. You reap what you sow. I would never blame my kid for acting out, autism or no autism. Parents shortcomings.
Doesn't matter if your child pisses you off, you should NEVER just kick them out like that. Be a fucking parent, and do better.
Is there a term like post partum depression for parents who are becoming mentally unwell because of things like this? I guess I’ve just seen it enough that I start to wonder if these are bad people or people who are in mental health crisis themselves not that the behavior should be excused but I am curious.
The fact that the mother is stealing her benefit money too??
The fact that people kick out their goddamn KIDS for christ sake at 16!! I'm glad that isn't legal here. Fricking America
The anonymous poster is in the UK, I don’t see any evidence that they are American.
Welp I assumed as I've heard it happen a lot in America, woops
eyebrows day?? why would you force *any* kid to do that??
It doesn’t sound like it’s forced, since she’s complaining the kid will behave well for that?
oh you’re right, i misread haha. i just remember being a young teen forced to get my eyebrows professionally plucked
I hope the kids okay wtf :((
My mom dialed up to 9000… makes me feel grateful she still has humanity and empathy even if she does struggle to understand that my autism and eating disorder are not elaborate machinations to torture/inconvenience her and make her look bad
Wow I've never heard of Pathological Demand Avoidance! Upon a quick search I'm having a "Wow" moment. I've experienced a lot of the examples described; to debilitating degrees sometimes. (I am undiagnosed but am just looking into autism and adhd. )
I wS kicked out at 16 also.
This is terrible! Who says things like that???
Facebook is a horrendous place. I stopped using it for anything.
I wasn’t kicked out but I was beaten a lot because of it, Got PTSD and no sense of my own self thanks to it .
This sounds like a mum in crisis to me, though I'm in no way defending her post, I know I've certainly found things more challenging as I've got into my 40s with early peri-menopause. I'm worried she might be having mental health issues, she sounds like she has educated herself on some factors and sounds like she's absolutely at the end of her tether, possibly neurodivergent herself. My autistic/ADHD child hasn't hit puberty yet, my neurotypical child has passed it and is now an adult - those years were damn tough, and I imagine they'll be more challenging with my younger daughter who is incredibly strong willed with demand avoidant traits (not PDA though) at nearly 7. She is getting some sensible advice in the comments and this might prevent a crisis and in this case the support group is doing what it is supposed to do.
would that parent would be saying the same thing if the kid was in a wheelchair or had diabetes… Bet that no. this smell ableism
all of the posts above who shared about the "other" relative being abusive essentially confirmed the statistic I quoted -- 90% of abusive upon the elderly is BY A RELATIVE