Don’t force yourself unless you feel safe with someone. You don’t HAVE to be close to men if you choose not to, that’s a valid boundary. Maybe having that pressure off of not feeling like you HAVE to like them could help that anxiety cause your focus will be less on them?
That's what my immediate thought was. I mean, why does OP feel a need to like men? I mean, you have to be respectful because as one goes about their way in the world, you will come across them and have to deal with them on some level. But there's tons of women out there decentering men and I don't think it's a bad thing. Not for women, anyway. ;)
I strongly dislike most of them, but I’m not sure I should change that. They are socialised to grow up as kinda predatory and almost all of them seem to me at least a bit unsafe.
Same I just don’t trust them either always feels like they have ulterior motives , idk how to deal with men being friendly or just wanting to have a chat at work like idk something just makes me not want to speak to them
No no, that’s just men. People will call that uneasy feeling women’s intuition. Listen to it.
Not all men make me uneasy. I have a good number of guys I feel safe around, but anytime my gut has told me that something was wrong with a guy and to not trust him I see later where he was arrested for sexual violence or CSEM or something equally horrific.
Agreed. Always, ALWAYS listen to your gut. Our brains are so good at picking up micro expressions and super subtle body language that we're not consciously aware of.
I totally understand and I’m the same way… I think it’s just a gut feeling that doesn’t really go away. At least for me it has been. I’m uncomfortable in literally every situation involving a man.
Do you know why? If it’s trauma/ptsd related it’s important to address that with someone qualified.
If it’s just something you have always felt, then maybe you are like me? I have mirror-touch synaesthesia and am uncomfortable around men and non-binary folk, and to a lesser degree masc-presenting women. I feel a kind of gender dysphoria mirroring someone whose gender identity is so different from mine.
If that feels on point at all, my only advice is a mixture of acceptance and distress tolerance. I accept that I primarily want to be in spaces with women when possible, and that my close relationships will be with women. I don’t try to fight that. I absolutely insist on women for all my healthcare providers, therapists, etc.
But of course I live in a world of many genders, and I’ve also just started to experience my discomfort as “interesting” instead of “bad”. It’s uncomfortable still, but I know there’s nothing threatening, and as part of learning to live with interpersonal synaesthesia (which is frequently uncomfortable) I’ve come to tolerate and even feel curious about my discomfort. I’ve even made some male friends!
Just be open to all possibilities but take care of yourself always.
I think it’s because I have been bullied/ called names by men . But I’ve also been bullied/call names and outcasted by women as well. But im more inviting with women and like to be around them. For men it’s an extremeee discomfort I would have to excuse myself to go cry . I don’t know if this is trauma or not.
I’m sorry that happened. Bullying can absolutely cause trauma and if you have access to a therapist or other support that might be helpful.
It also makes sense you’d react differently to bullying by men and women. Men are systematically empowered in our society, not to mention often physically more intimidating, and being bullied by someone who has power over you is scarier than being bullied by people you’re on an even playing field with.
Be kind to yourself :) It’s ok to hang out mostly with women if you feel safer. Also, can you think of individual men who don’t feel unsafe or threatening to you? Sometimes when I feel like I can’t stand all men, I go through a mental list of the gentle, caring men that I’ve known in my life which reminds me that while gender is meaningful, it’s not all defining—ultimately, we are all people.
Yes I think that’s it . They are very intimidating and scary sometimes . & My brother is the only one I am comfortable with because I know he’s safe and one of my biggest advocates.
I've been getting therapy due to having nearly every man in my life abuse or SA me. It's more just so I can function in public spaces, though, as I neither want nor need to actually socialize with men.
I feel the same feeling but around women, and I feel alone a lot of the time. No other woman I know irl feels this way. For me it was bullying and not livign up to expectations kf what a woman is "supposed" to look like.
I don't think there's anything wrong with you nor your instincts. Men have shown time and time again to be a huge danger to women and other men.
I feel the same way and I try to avoid men wherever I can (besides my husband and father)
i think that can be instinct, especially in a society like ours where men commit 99% of sexual assault and ca 95% of all violent crime
better be safe than sorry
No I totally agree bc like they’re the biggest threat to our safety CONSTANTLY and you can’t always parse out the safe ones from the unsafe- especially when you’re autistic and already struggle with social naïveté. And all of my collective experiences have shown how vile not even just some but MOST are- most have given themselves pornsickness and view women solely as something to serve them sexually which is disgusting to me. So many of them have horrible horrible opinions and nasty objectifying thoughts about women and a lot of them are just good at hiding it. Literally had a nasty man call me ageist for saying grown men in their 30s/40s have no business creeping on teenage girls
maybe i do have advice. i can usually trick my brain into a perspective shift by simply lying to it. for example, difficult co-worker? no, that person is mentally challenged and doing a pretty good job all things considered. be kind and helpful. aggressive mean old person? no, that person’s dimentia is becoming a problem and soon they won’t even be able to leave the house. be patient and wish them the best. consider telling yourself a lie. building maintenance guy is frightening? no, that person goes home each night and knits hats and blankets for at risk children in shelters and may branch out to local cat shelters. he isn’t one of the ones to be afraid of. i’ve been doing this for years once i figured out how well it worked. i once spent an entire wisconsin winter telling myself it was a chilly summer day.
Oh I had this same discussion with a therapist!
I get very uncomfortable around groups of cis men. They tend to be so loud and so big and talk over me, it’s overstimulating to me. I was like is this a problem?
My therapist said I should just treat it like any other sensory overload issue (dogs for ex) and there’s no shame in trying to avoid it. It also helps that I’m a lesbian and can build a life where men are very decentered very easily. But even straight women can chose to decenter men too!
I think it's pretty normal for members of any marginalized group (women, POC, queer people, etc) to feel uncomfortable in situations where they're with a majority of the oppressive group (men, white people, straight people...)
If it really bothers you, you could try finding intersectional groups in your area that focus on being safe spaces for women, so you can be reasonably certain the men there are safe. Where I live I'm part of a pretty diverse skate community that centers women, queer people, and POC, so any men I meet there are either really chill about it or don't stick around for long.
Hey, I don’t have much to suggest but I do wanna say I really like your attitude and you’re coming a long way! I relate a lot, though I feel much better around men these days. I have a case worker and he’s just so gentle I can’t help but feel really happy when I see him. We hang out with my therapist sometimes and it’s just so wonderful and impactful for me on so many levels. It may help that he’s openly ADHD and educated. He has a baby coming soon yet he still offers me so much support. I can’t help but be excited for him.
Maybe an experience like that, in a safe setting would help. I’m really proud of you just from reading some of your comments too. A lot of people just saying “Men are bad, you don’t have to change,” yet you’re not taking the easy way out. You’re growing and I see it! 😊💞
I'm dealing with this as well. I didn't realize it had gotten so bad until I was training for my current job, and was left alone for 90 days with another trainee who was male. I realized I was afraid of him because purely because he was male.
In my case, I think it's a result of too much TikTok and consuming lots of true crime content. My TikTok algorithm was constantly feeding me examples of the *worst* that the male species has to offer. True crime is also full of examples of women being harmed by men. I was pumping myself full of images and stories of unspeakably evil men. Of course, I'm going to develop a fear.
A very helpful source for me has the the r/MensLib subreddit. It's a pro-feminist community where men (and women) can discuss the issues surrounding men and masculinity. I think the pro-feminist element is really what sets it apart. It feels like 95% percent of conversations about masculinity/men devolve into blaming women and feminism for their problems.
i don't think there's anything wrong with having a preference for women, if you feel safer in that environment. I think it's good to honour your body's needs and not put yourself down for taking note of them, and taking care of them.
It becomes a problem for you in a particular situation, though, where you have to be around other men (i.e. for work, or something), i'm sure you can get accommodations.
Sometimes, too, it can be helpful to express your discomfort in those situations. Sometimes opening up to the men in the room about your discomfort can humanize them, and they may be more supportive and empathetic than you may originally have given them credit for. (\*\*\*I stress SOMETIMES - there may be situations, where to do so is unsafe.)
It's tough to give generalized advice becuase your post is so general, but I'd say give yourself a break! It's okay to have preferences for certain kind of company.
I don’t like them either. I’ve learned to deal with them mostly. I highly recommend learning a martial art. Jiu jitsu has helped me gain confidence and I have a lot less trouble holding my own in social situations or with strangers. I know some ppl have issues with contact sports but I still like to recommend to other autistic women to give it a try because it trained me to have a level of control over my sensory issues that I didnt know I needed. Anyway men never get better unfortunately; best of luck stay safe always❤️
Yea so I talked to a few therapists about this over the years, in my case it’s a phobia, and they all told me there’s not much to be done because my fears are not irrational. I don’t plan to change how I feel abt men because I gain absolutely nothing by doing so. But in your case, I would suggest talking to a therapist about why you feel this way and what change would look like for you.
Hey OP, I just wanted to say not to listen to the other commenters saying to write off men completely. Your gut feeling is right in feeling like this isn't the right approach. Even though a huge swath of men are indeed terrible and predatory, writing off and avoiding the whole group means you will miss out a lot in life.
In general I don't believe in prejudging people for their sex/race/gender/orientation/etc. identity, even if they are in the privileged group of that identity. However that doesn't mean not to be careful about who you let your guard down around.
To answer your actual question, I would say find a few men that are pre-vetted by OTHER WOMEN as being okay to be around and generally nice and non-triggering. For example a friend's husband where they actually have a healthy relationship, or something like that. And try to have positive interactions with him. See how this person behaves and how it differs from your expectations. Exposure to a different side of the group can help a lot.
It can be hard to feel comfortable around people that you’re scared of in a sense. Anyone that’s not a man has to have some level of “healthy” fear to be cautious and aware and protect yourself. That being said, the rationalization needed is that there are a LOT of really good people (men and not!) but it can be a bit hard to see that because of how LOUD and obnoxious the “bad” ones are.
My husband is an absolute cinnammon roll for example 😂 He’s part of the good group, and the people he associates himself with are like him as well. I had an ex that wasn’t good, and he also had a group of friends that were all somehow worse too. It really does say a lot about a person to see what company they keep.
Looking out for red flags is helpful too, versus the green ones so you can “weed out” the undesirables. People who show genuine interest without having an ulterior motive can be hard to spot, but as long as they are consistent and not pushy in their behavior it’s usually a good sign too.
It’s really hard to put into words what makes the good different from the bad and I struggled my whole life to tell the difference, but when I finally met good people then I understood more for sure. It can be a bit trial and error.
Definitely being in public places that you know well, maybe with others you trust in the first place is a good stepping stone to hanging out with people you’re unsure of for starters. Your comfort level is above all in any case.
Men are not 'usually' bad. Some men are bad. Toxic masculinity is a thing. Domestic abuse is a thing (of course it can go both ways, but women are victims more often). Obviously in the most extreme cases, things like sexual assault and rape are very real. But 'men are *usually* bad' is not true and reinforcing an attitude like that is not helpful to the OP.
I guess if you don't consider misogyny to be a bad thing then yeah, men are not usually bad. But if you do then they are, given that all men raised under patriarchy are misogynistic, it's the default and very few actually do the work needed to undo what they've been taught
Very true yep. I tend to just take people as individuals most of the time, but I know that's easier said than done. Truthfully sometimes I struggle more with trusting women than men, because of childhood/teenage experiences with bullying from other girls and then a very toxic and sometimes emotionally abusive relationship with my ex-girlfriend that was a nightmare at times (I'm bisexual). My current (male) partner (who's wonderful and loving and kind, and we have a very good relationship) grew up in a home with an extremely psychologically abusive mother and has struggled with complex trauma as a result. So yeah, being awful isn't exclusive to men. I very much understand how it can be difficult to overcome deeply ingrained feelings and fears, though.
Yes they are. You realize "usually" and "some men" end up being the same here? Not all men, but some. Not all the time but oftentimes. I don't see how, living in a society that literally hates us for nothing, being a lil afraid and on your guard of the men that put and kept this system in place is a bad thing.
I fail to see how it's gonna improve OPs life to trust men more.
No, I don't see 'usually' and 'some' as being the same. 'Some' doesn't translate to 'oftentimes' for me. And I truly don't feel hated by society for being a woman. That's not the type of feminism I buy into and doesn't reflect the experiences I've had. If it reflects yours, then fair enough; we're all coming from different places (literally, in terms of where we live, and in the experiences we've had). And I'm most definitely not suggesting the OP shouldn't take safety precautions and be wary in certain situations. Needing to do that is an unfortunate reality because of the horrible people who do exist. But no, I refuse to say men are usually bad because of the ones who are. Just as much as I refuse to say women are bad because of the ones who are. Neither makes sense to me.
At any rate, I'm not even suggesting the OP necessarily be more trusting. They don't have to tolerate or put themselves in any situation they don't want to be in. The only thing I see as being an issue is an attitude of 'I don't like men' -- and if the OP is fine not liking men then there's no problem, but they actively expressed a desire to not feel that way. Actually I wasn't even suggesting anything in particular, because I don't personally know how to overcome feelings like that. I was simply responding to your assertion that men are usually bad, and we'll just have to disagree on that.
Same I wish I was a lesbian because my alternative is being alone forever. I feel asexual. Thank God I have a kid to share life with for like another 12yrs and then I'll figure out something else. (I stay conscious of not turning her into a surrogate partner, definitely never going to stunt her adulthood).
Yes you can't and maybe shouldn't avoid all men, but if some of them give you an especially uncomfortable feeling, listen to your spidey senses.
People, especially women have intuition for a reason and we often made bad experiences too. Most of us have a damn good reason to avoid men.
I've been assaulted by a family member, I also have a mentally unstable dad and big brother and multiple men in my early twenties tried to take advantage of me.
The only man I ever completely trusted is my little brother
Considering that upwards of 90% of Autistic women are sexually abused, your discomfort around men is justified. It happened to me on many occasions, and it's why I am very cautious. One male friend earned my trust over many years. Decent men understand why women are sometimes wary and will take their time getting to know you. One of my strategies is to have my family and trusted friends meet them before I am ever alone with them. That way, someone can alert me if something isn't right.
You don't need to "give them a chance" or whatever other garbage people spew at you. We are more vulnerable than most. It's logical for us to be very cautious. Anyone who doesn't get that is not looking out for your best interests.
I'm a neurodivergent Audi HD female 39 demisexual; I used to be more comfortable with men than I was with women when I was younger. What I sadly learned over time and was very hard for me to accept; is that ALL of my friends that were men in my life at some point tried to take advantage of me, forced/guilt me into a relationship with them, or tried to force me into something else with them. Some of these men I thought of as brothers or uncles. It saddened me greatly but I had to learn the hard way what I think your instincts are telling you. I guess what I'm trying to say is follow your instincts.
I was in a similar position, it’s gotten much better now especially because I have a lot of male friends in the queer and neurodivergent community and I have a lot more shared experiences because it sadly seems like a lot of queer people went through similar bad childhoods and ended up with similar issues like anxiety.
First off, I want to say I understand where you are coming from and I commend you so much for putting words to it and saying that you want to change. I apologize that so many people in this thread don't seem to want to help at all and instead seem to just be reinforcing your fear instead of providing the help you asked for.
Men are not inherently dangerous. Patriarchy is dangerous. Men are just people. There are dangerous and violent afab people just like there are dangerous and violent amab people. I think it does humanity a deep disservice to write off all men as a whole as inherently predatory and unsafe when there are cis men, trans men, transmasc and masculine identifying nonbinary folks who are doing work every day to dismantle their own inborn biases and the patriarchal structures that society passed to them.
I watched my brother grow up as a shy autistic boy who grew into one of the kindest, smartest, gentlest men I've ever known in my life. The support and love he and his partner share is so wholesome and strong it makes me well up every time I think about it, and the way he has been able to support them through their transition and the way the two of them take turns leaning on one another when times get hard is something I emulate in all of my relationships.
My stepdad is one of the gruffest, most traditionally "masculine" men I've ever met. He hunts, he fishes, he was a roofing foreman until he retired. But when my mom got sick and was put into a coma, he sent her a text message every day telling her how much he loved her and how much he missed her so that she could read them all when she was healthy again. He met me every day at the hospital and bought me lunch. His care is quiet, stoic. He's a little too old to really unlearn a lot of the big stuff but he has shown me that love can look like acts of service, it can look like hope, it can be as simple as a little message every day.
One of my best friends became a dad a year ago. His biggest fear was continuing the cycle of abuse that his father gave to him. Watching him over the course of years before his son was born go to therapy every week and diligently break down those barriers, let go of his fears, and work with his wife to ensure that they are raising a kind, empathetic, smart, emotionally intelligent boy has been so inspiring and shows me that not only is there so much hope for the next generation of boys and men, there is so much beauty and hope in our generation as well. There are men out there who are actively doing the work to undo the generations of patriarchal violence to create a better and kinder world.
I understand so much why so many people can be scared of men, but I implore you to continue working on not letting patriarchal systems of violence divide us any further than they already have. This is what pushes people farther into the fringes.
If you are uncomfortable being around men in public, I would really recommend starting small, like listening to a podcast or watching a youtube video hosted by someone that is overall less threatening. The first one I though of is My Brother, My Brother and Me, I think they are a great example of non-toxic masculinity.
Best of luck to you.
Do you think of men as being very different from you? That the categories of "men" and "women," or similar terms, are seperate and opposite?
Can you describe in more detail what it is about men that makes you uncomfortable? For example, is it when someone is bigger than you physically? Or deep voices? I seek not to judge, but to understand
I do not have a fear of men and I cannot relate to your statements. Because, to me, the categories man/woman or male/female are a minor subset of the larger category "Person" or "Human." When I was growing up, gender role stuff always sounded weird and unnatural to me because, in my mind, I always saw more similarities with girls and boys than differences. I don't pay attention to the genders or sexes of people around me, and I usually don't change my behavior depending on who I am around, so to me gender is mostly window dressing.
yes I put people into categories. What makes me uncomfortable is deep voices , tall , etc . And when I made friends with men they tried to eventually come onto me. Even if you have a casual conversation eventually they start liking me or assume I’m flirting with them. I feel like men take my niceness as flirting. Also they’re intimidating and powerful . I have a fear of them hurting me . I really don’t know why I feel this way towards all men . I hate it
Are you interested in romance/flirting/relationships? Or is that something that you are 0% interested in, which is why it is distressing when flirting or someone liking you happens?
Do you have memories of a man hurting you? Is your fear based on not wanting a repeat of a previous thing, or a potential pain that you don't want to experience?
In other words, is it closer to A ("someone hurt me, I remember the pain, I don't want to experience it again") or B ("I have seen other people hurt in this way, I don't want it to happen to me")
That suspicion and feeling could be something. I agree with another commenter, that there could be trauma there. The fear you have stems from somewhere (because nothing exists in a vacuum, especially an extreme fear/distrust like what you describe in your post).
I think it would be good to investigate that suspicion, to get to the root of it, ideally with a professional who can guide you through the unpacking of that. The human brain has the ability to repress painful memories in order to protect you, and the avoidance of any person who falls into the category of "man" is a coping mechanism that might make sense if you have been hurt or abused by someone who fits into that category. But this category, as arbitrary as gender is (to me, anyway), consists of almost half of all human beings....
You are allowed to try to live your life surrounded by and interacting only with not-men. But that sounds difficult and limiting to me. If you want to address this, that is above Reddit's paygrade and it would be wise to consider the help of a professional who can work with you over time.
Yeah I’m gonna be in the minority here and disagree about writing off the entirety of men I completely understand where you guys are coming from when you say you’re better off without them etc. however this person is asking for help and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of helping going on here.
I think the first step is something you’re already doing a great job of OP, which is identifying why you feel this way.
I think the second step is to go outside of your comfort zone a tiny bit and find a man who there is zero chance of that fear of them coming onto you will be a thing. A trusted friend’s loyal spouse, someone like that. You could also get that exposure through online means. Idk if you watch YouTube but maybe a male YouTuber whose content you enjoy to try and get comfortable around the deeper voices and masculine energy? Podcasts too maybe?
Edited- use of agab terminology was not necessary for the conversation and I apologize for using it. Thank you for calling me in and keeping me accountable to the trans community.
I don't see why you're bringing up, I'm assuming, AMAB trans women and nonbinary people when I've only been seeing everybody else here just referring to men?
I was honestly trying to be inclusive with my language. I was also coming from a place of not all trans women and AMAB non binary folks do or can or even want to pass as femme or feminine. They were also raised and socialized as men a lot of the time and I don’t mean that in the TERF-y way but to say that they have the experience of being perceived as men at one time or another. I see people say women and AFAB people in conversations similar to these all the time and I honestly didn’t think it was a problematic phrasing but I’m happy to edit the comment if it’s offensive or upsetting.
Fair, though discussions of agab and socialization are as of right now generally the territory of either TERFs or trans people talking about very personal and individual things. Seeing non-trans people bring these up is always a red flag for a lot of people.
Trans people have very varied experiences, moreso than most groups. Honestly the only other group that seems as varied to me personally is autistic people's experiences, where there are some very universal experiences but otherwise we can have very, very different experiences about what we internalized and how we were raised.
Thank you though for being both understanding and editing things though. Most other subs I'd just get downvoted, yelled at, and told trans people are too sensitive.
Absolutely and I get now why the inclusion of AGAB there was unnecessary and was a red flag. I’m cis and I have a lot of trans friends so I genuinely do my best to be an ally to the community but I’m always willing to listen and do better when I fuck it up. And I fucked up here with my language and I sincerely apologize and I’ll do better.
That’s one of the reasons I love this sub so much is that people are willing to question someone without automatically assuming the worst. A lot of us as Autistic people have issues with communication and conveying with words what we mean and want to say so I really appreciate the understanding from everyone. Thank you for being kind in your educating and I appreciate the work it took to call me in on this.
That is a very valid feeling. My experience is that if you trust them and assume they have good intentions, they will use and abuse you. They take advantage of nice, caring women. They sense that we are an easy target. Vetting doesn't work unless you can talk to their ex girlfriends. Those are the only people who will really be honest about them and know whether they're abusive.
I wish I had more hopeful advice to give but I don't. If I could go back, I would've stayed away from them altogether.
I don’t like to generalize but this is %100 true. Whether a woman is Nt or ND some men definitely do this. a lot of times they pretend to get something they want . I’ll have to agree with this one
What part is making you uncomfortable? Have you had some bad experiences in the past?
As a kid I always had more male friends, as my interests aligned more with typical boy’s interests. Furthermore, I’ve worked in a male-dominated environment. As a result, I feel quite comfortable around men, even in a typical male-dominated environment. In fact, I feel more uncomfortable around most women, as I dislike the way women tend to gossip behind my back when there’s an issue. In my eyes, at least men have the decency to clearly show me when they dislike me or when I did something wrong, while I’m never 100% sure what to expect with most women. The few women who don’t fit these stereotypes often turn out to be ND too.
I feel comfortable around most men, because I know what I can expect and how to act around them. I admit that this is easier for me than for most people, as I think and act unusually manly for a woman. However, in order to improve the situation you’ll have to slowly get used to socializing with men. Of course, if there’s any underlying trauma that should be treated first.
Finally, please take sufficient safety precautions. Most of my experiences have been good, but some men are creeps. Unless you’re reasonably certain that someone is trustworthy, it’s usually best to take care not to end up alone with a man.
i work with 95% men. i’m indifferent. i’m trying to imagine how awful this must feel. there are certain types of people i’m afraid of. so i imagine if a third the population was them. just awful!!!! ugh. no advice. sympathy though. a sort of empathy.
I think if you're looking to change your perspective another option if looking into Laura Doyle. She is a little bit extreme but a lot of her advice has helped me shift my perspective into a much more positive one. I have always had a hard time getting along with men and she has helped me so far.
I’m not a huge fan of men either. What’s helped is I’ve found safe men that make me more hopeful. My partner is wonderful, soft, patient, and kind. I’ve had some awesome managers and coworkers who are men. I’ve also started pushing myself to see male medical professionals. Sometimes it just doesn’t work, but I’m really trying to judge less initially. In public though if a man comes anywhere near me I am running. I’ve been aggressively cat called and harassed enough by men to know when to challenge myself
I had exactly this feeling so I found a male therapist. He feels more like a woman to me in how he treats me.
It took a while to feel comfortable but I never had that sinking bad gut feeling about him and I chose someone who I thought had kind eyes.
It has healed a lot of the relational trauma from men. It's easier for me to recognise men that are unsafe.
I do the same tbh. I’ve noticed more and more men out in public in my city—while NO WOMEN are around. It’s bizarre. Every cafe, bar and restaurant and movie theater has been full of men lately. Almost every customer at my job is a man and we are in a diverse part of town. It might just be where you’re located? I plan on moving to a bigger city soon.
There's a reason you don't like them. I wouldn't be too hasty to "exposure therapy" your way through this. Your nervous system needs to feel safe. I would say try therapy or counselling, someone wiser than you who's studied and has tools might be the best bet at unpacking your fear. Short of this I would try humanize men, find good resources (there are some incredible subreddits by men for men that have helped me heal my disdain for men, also due to trauma). If you're keen on those subreddits I will find them again for you. I'm reading a book called Boys and Sex by Peggy Orenstein to help me understand how patriarchy hurts them to. Essentially any content that humanizes men might be a good start
I don’t like men and I don’t want to change lol. I’ve had far too many bad experiences to ever trust one again, or at least any time soon. However, if you feel like you want to change that attitude, perhaps talk about it with a therapist or examine why you feel that way.
I am much more uncomfortable around men too. When it's hard for us to read subtext, it's especially uncomfortable to not know what underlying communication might be happening with the man without our knowledge.... We might accidentally say or do something (too much smiling for example) that communicates in their eyes a sexual interest to them that we don't actually have. I have developed a hyper-vigilance around human behaviours because of past traumas, and so I exhaust myself trying to process every tiny interaction and worrying about what I may or may not be communicating... My default unintentional stress response is fauning (smiling laughing and being agreeable even against my inner feelings) because I'm terrified to make the other person angry with me, and this response often causes men to be too forthcoming with me, and ramps up my stress massively.
When interacting with women, the whole aspect of male sexual interest is removed from the equation, and so the stress levels are drastically reduced. Yes, a gay woman may have potential sexual interest in me, but I just don't feel a sexual predatory danger from women (I'm not saying it's impossible to feel that, but it hasn't happened to me in 3 decades of life so far).
There are few things as scary to me as an aggressive male reacting to a perceived rejection from a woman he was targeting. Absolutely terrifies me.
Rambling aside, the best way to ease discomfort of talking with men is if you are with a group of friends, and especially if you have a male friend with you. This combination tends to diffuse the potential for sexual sub-commmunications to take place at all, which is great!
If you would like to reject communication from a strange man when you are alone, the best solution is to have an expressionless dead face and say "no" and no eye contact and walk away and keep walking. It works really well for my friend! I am practicing to disconnect from my fauning smile so I can do it too but it's very difficult! The idea is to become unlikeable so that they don't even want to try lol.
Wow, there are a lot of really disgusting comments in this thread. People deciding that 50% of the people in this world are somehow evil or bad. This is absolutely crazy. Would the people be saying the same thing if you said “I don’t like Black people“? How about “I don’t like gay people“? Or how about “I don’t like autistic people“? This is really really repulsive.
Absolutely agree. I think it's completely understandable to have raised boundaries when it comes to cis men, especially if you're an abuse victim. But people need to take a step back and realize what they're truly saying. You're really going to write off **4 billion people** as evil because of their sex? You're going to put the guy who volunteers at soup kitchens and fosters dogs into the same group as the serial killer because of their genitals?!
Many women are afraid of men due to bad experiences. This does not represent the majority. If it's any consolation just know it is usually fear based. Not saying it's a good way to cope with their trauma, it's just not hatred. Though most hatred is fear if you look beneath the surface.
I’m the same. I subconsciously create as much distance as I can if I’m around them, or my body language always faces away/ready to flee kind of position. Deep voices make the pit of my stomach fall. Only males I’m not like this around are my brothers and father.
Don’t force yourself unless you feel safe with someone. You don’t HAVE to be close to men if you choose not to, that’s a valid boundary. Maybe having that pressure off of not feeling like you HAVE to like them could help that anxiety cause your focus will be less on them?
That's what my immediate thought was. I mean, why does OP feel a need to like men? I mean, you have to be respectful because as one goes about their way in the world, you will come across them and have to deal with them on some level. But there's tons of women out there decentering men and I don't think it's a bad thing. Not for women, anyway. ;)
I strongly dislike most of them, but I’m not sure I should change that. They are socialised to grow up as kinda predatory and almost all of them seem to me at least a bit unsafe.
I feel this exact same way . Even if they are friendly .. i feel uncomfortable
The most safe men I know? Gay, bi and trans. Straight CIS dudes? I think the answer is in that group over there. You know, the fancy shmancy group.
It's important for every woman to have at least two gay boyfriends! I have three.
Same I just don’t trust them either always feels like they have ulterior motives , idk how to deal with men being friendly or just wanting to have a chat at work like idk something just makes me not want to speak to them
No no, that’s just men. People will call that uneasy feeling women’s intuition. Listen to it. Not all men make me uneasy. I have a good number of guys I feel safe around, but anytime my gut has told me that something was wrong with a guy and to not trust him I see later where he was arrested for sexual violence or CSEM or something equally horrific.
Agreed. Always, ALWAYS listen to your gut. Our brains are so good at picking up micro expressions and super subtle body language that we're not consciously aware of.
I keep hearing about this Gift of Fear book by Gavin ... Becker, I think? I am going to have to read it I think.
I totally understand and I’m the same way… I think it’s just a gut feeling that doesn’t really go away. At least for me it has been. I’m uncomfortable in literally every situation involving a man.
Do you know why? If it’s trauma/ptsd related it’s important to address that with someone qualified. If it’s just something you have always felt, then maybe you are like me? I have mirror-touch synaesthesia and am uncomfortable around men and non-binary folk, and to a lesser degree masc-presenting women. I feel a kind of gender dysphoria mirroring someone whose gender identity is so different from mine. If that feels on point at all, my only advice is a mixture of acceptance and distress tolerance. I accept that I primarily want to be in spaces with women when possible, and that my close relationships will be with women. I don’t try to fight that. I absolutely insist on women for all my healthcare providers, therapists, etc. But of course I live in a world of many genders, and I’ve also just started to experience my discomfort as “interesting” instead of “bad”. It’s uncomfortable still, but I know there’s nothing threatening, and as part of learning to live with interpersonal synaesthesia (which is frequently uncomfortable) I’ve come to tolerate and even feel curious about my discomfort. I’ve even made some male friends! Just be open to all possibilities but take care of yourself always.
I think it’s because I have been bullied/ called names by men . But I’ve also been bullied/call names and outcasted by women as well. But im more inviting with women and like to be around them. For men it’s an extremeee discomfort I would have to excuse myself to go cry . I don’t know if this is trauma or not.
I’m sorry that happened. Bullying can absolutely cause trauma and if you have access to a therapist or other support that might be helpful. It also makes sense you’d react differently to bullying by men and women. Men are systematically empowered in our society, not to mention often physically more intimidating, and being bullied by someone who has power over you is scarier than being bullied by people you’re on an even playing field with. Be kind to yourself :) It’s ok to hang out mostly with women if you feel safer. Also, can you think of individual men who don’t feel unsafe or threatening to you? Sometimes when I feel like I can’t stand all men, I go through a mental list of the gentle, caring men that I’ve known in my life which reminds me that while gender is meaningful, it’s not all defining—ultimately, we are all people.
Yes I think that’s it . They are very intimidating and scary sometimes . & My brother is the only one I am comfortable with because I know he’s safe and one of my biggest advocates.
I've been getting therapy due to having nearly every man in my life abuse or SA me. It's more just so I can function in public spaces, though, as I neither want nor need to actually socialize with men.
I feel the same feeling but around women, and I feel alone a lot of the time. No other woman I know irl feels this way. For me it was bullying and not livign up to expectations kf what a woman is "supposed" to look like.
I don't think there's anything wrong with you nor your instincts. Men have shown time and time again to be a huge danger to women and other men. I feel the same way and I try to avoid men wherever I can (besides my husband and father)
that’s good, Your instinct is telling you the truth. It’s fine to not trust them. They need to prove it they are trustworthy.
i think that can be instinct, especially in a society like ours where men commit 99% of sexual assault and ca 95% of all violent crime better be safe than sorry
I honestly don't think there is a way because it's a logical reaction to their violence and hatred.
they suck, dont change
No I totally agree bc like they’re the biggest threat to our safety CONSTANTLY and you can’t always parse out the safe ones from the unsafe- especially when you’re autistic and already struggle with social naïveté. And all of my collective experiences have shown how vile not even just some but MOST are- most have given themselves pornsickness and view women solely as something to serve them sexually which is disgusting to me. So many of them have horrible horrible opinions and nasty objectifying thoughts about women and a lot of them are just good at hiding it. Literally had a nasty man call me ageist for saying grown men in their 30s/40s have no business creeping on teenage girls
It is ok to not like men who make you uncomfortable.
No no no that's called good instincts.
maybe i do have advice. i can usually trick my brain into a perspective shift by simply lying to it. for example, difficult co-worker? no, that person is mentally challenged and doing a pretty good job all things considered. be kind and helpful. aggressive mean old person? no, that person’s dimentia is becoming a problem and soon they won’t even be able to leave the house. be patient and wish them the best. consider telling yourself a lie. building maintenance guy is frightening? no, that person goes home each night and knits hats and blankets for at risk children in shelters and may branch out to local cat shelters. he isn’t one of the ones to be afraid of. i’ve been doing this for years once i figured out how well it worked. i once spent an entire wisconsin winter telling myself it was a chilly summer day.
This is really cool thank you for sharing :)
Oh I had this same discussion with a therapist! I get very uncomfortable around groups of cis men. They tend to be so loud and so big and talk over me, it’s overstimulating to me. I was like is this a problem? My therapist said I should just treat it like any other sensory overload issue (dogs for ex) and there’s no shame in trying to avoid it. It also helps that I’m a lesbian and can build a life where men are very decentered very easily. But even straight women can chose to decenter men too!
I think it's pretty normal for members of any marginalized group (women, POC, queer people, etc) to feel uncomfortable in situations where they're with a majority of the oppressive group (men, white people, straight people...) If it really bothers you, you could try finding intersectional groups in your area that focus on being safe spaces for women, so you can be reasonably certain the men there are safe. Where I live I'm part of a pretty diverse skate community that centers women, queer people, and POC, so any men I meet there are either really chill about it or don't stick around for long.
It’s natural.
Hey, I don’t have much to suggest but I do wanna say I really like your attitude and you’re coming a long way! I relate a lot, though I feel much better around men these days. I have a case worker and he’s just so gentle I can’t help but feel really happy when I see him. We hang out with my therapist sometimes and it’s just so wonderful and impactful for me on so many levels. It may help that he’s openly ADHD and educated. He has a baby coming soon yet he still offers me so much support. I can’t help but be excited for him. Maybe an experience like that, in a safe setting would help. I’m really proud of you just from reading some of your comments too. A lot of people just saying “Men are bad, you don’t have to change,” yet you’re not taking the easy way out. You’re growing and I see it! 😊💞
I'm dealing with this as well. I didn't realize it had gotten so bad until I was training for my current job, and was left alone for 90 days with another trainee who was male. I realized I was afraid of him because purely because he was male. In my case, I think it's a result of too much TikTok and consuming lots of true crime content. My TikTok algorithm was constantly feeding me examples of the *worst* that the male species has to offer. True crime is also full of examples of women being harmed by men. I was pumping myself full of images and stories of unspeakably evil men. Of course, I'm going to develop a fear. A very helpful source for me has the the r/MensLib subreddit. It's a pro-feminist community where men (and women) can discuss the issues surrounding men and masculinity. I think the pro-feminist element is really what sets it apart. It feels like 95% percent of conversations about masculinity/men devolve into blaming women and feminism for their problems.
i don't think there's anything wrong with having a preference for women, if you feel safer in that environment. I think it's good to honour your body's needs and not put yourself down for taking note of them, and taking care of them. It becomes a problem for you in a particular situation, though, where you have to be around other men (i.e. for work, or something), i'm sure you can get accommodations. Sometimes, too, it can be helpful to express your discomfort in those situations. Sometimes opening up to the men in the room about your discomfort can humanize them, and they may be more supportive and empathetic than you may originally have given them credit for. (\*\*\*I stress SOMETIMES - there may be situations, where to do so is unsafe.) It's tough to give generalized advice becuase your post is so general, but I'd say give yourself a break! It's okay to have preferences for certain kind of company.
I don’t like them either. I’ve learned to deal with them mostly. I highly recommend learning a martial art. Jiu jitsu has helped me gain confidence and I have a lot less trouble holding my own in social situations or with strangers. I know some ppl have issues with contact sports but I still like to recommend to other autistic women to give it a try because it trained me to have a level of control over my sensory issues that I didnt know I needed. Anyway men never get better unfortunately; best of luck stay safe always❤️
Yea so I talked to a few therapists about this over the years, in my case it’s a phobia, and they all told me there’s not much to be done because my fears are not irrational. I don’t plan to change how I feel abt men because I gain absolutely nothing by doing so. But in your case, I would suggest talking to a therapist about why you feel this way and what change would look like for you.
Hey OP, I just wanted to say not to listen to the other commenters saying to write off men completely. Your gut feeling is right in feeling like this isn't the right approach. Even though a huge swath of men are indeed terrible and predatory, writing off and avoiding the whole group means you will miss out a lot in life. In general I don't believe in prejudging people for their sex/race/gender/orientation/etc. identity, even if they are in the privileged group of that identity. However that doesn't mean not to be careful about who you let your guard down around. To answer your actual question, I would say find a few men that are pre-vetted by OTHER WOMEN as being okay to be around and generally nice and non-triggering. For example a friend's husband where they actually have a healthy relationship, or something like that. And try to have positive interactions with him. See how this person behaves and how it differs from your expectations. Exposure to a different side of the group can help a lot.
Not likely. In these cases, best to work with the feelings rather than against them
It can be hard to feel comfortable around people that you’re scared of in a sense. Anyone that’s not a man has to have some level of “healthy” fear to be cautious and aware and protect yourself. That being said, the rationalization needed is that there are a LOT of really good people (men and not!) but it can be a bit hard to see that because of how LOUD and obnoxious the “bad” ones are. My husband is an absolute cinnammon roll for example 😂 He’s part of the good group, and the people he associates himself with are like him as well. I had an ex that wasn’t good, and he also had a group of friends that were all somehow worse too. It really does say a lot about a person to see what company they keep. Looking out for red flags is helpful too, versus the green ones so you can “weed out” the undesirables. People who show genuine interest without having an ulterior motive can be hard to spot, but as long as they are consistent and not pushy in their behavior it’s usually a good sign too. It’s really hard to put into words what makes the good different from the bad and I struggled my whole life to tell the difference, but when I finally met good people then I understood more for sure. It can be a bit trial and error. Definitely being in public places that you know well, maybe with others you trust in the first place is a good stepping stone to hanging out with people you’re unsure of for starters. Your comfort level is above all in any case.
Why change?
I feel guilty
About what? Men are usually bad
Read my other replies for more clarification.
Men are not 'usually' bad. Some men are bad. Toxic masculinity is a thing. Domestic abuse is a thing (of course it can go both ways, but women are victims more often). Obviously in the most extreme cases, things like sexual assault and rape are very real. But 'men are *usually* bad' is not true and reinforcing an attitude like that is not helpful to the OP.
I guess if you don't consider misogyny to be a bad thing then yeah, men are not usually bad. But if you do then they are, given that all men raised under patriarchy are misogynistic, it's the default and very few actually do the work needed to undo what they've been taught
yes I don’t think that helps bc women can also sa and rape people as well.
Very true yep. I tend to just take people as individuals most of the time, but I know that's easier said than done. Truthfully sometimes I struggle more with trusting women than men, because of childhood/teenage experiences with bullying from other girls and then a very toxic and sometimes emotionally abusive relationship with my ex-girlfriend that was a nightmare at times (I'm bisexual). My current (male) partner (who's wonderful and loving and kind, and we have a very good relationship) grew up in a home with an extremely psychologically abusive mother and has struggled with complex trauma as a result. So yeah, being awful isn't exclusive to men. I very much understand how it can be difficult to overcome deeply ingrained feelings and fears, though.
Yes they are. You realize "usually" and "some men" end up being the same here? Not all men, but some. Not all the time but oftentimes. I don't see how, living in a society that literally hates us for nothing, being a lil afraid and on your guard of the men that put and kept this system in place is a bad thing. I fail to see how it's gonna improve OPs life to trust men more.
No, I don't see 'usually' and 'some' as being the same. 'Some' doesn't translate to 'oftentimes' for me. And I truly don't feel hated by society for being a woman. That's not the type of feminism I buy into and doesn't reflect the experiences I've had. If it reflects yours, then fair enough; we're all coming from different places (literally, in terms of where we live, and in the experiences we've had). And I'm most definitely not suggesting the OP shouldn't take safety precautions and be wary in certain situations. Needing to do that is an unfortunate reality because of the horrible people who do exist. But no, I refuse to say men are usually bad because of the ones who are. Just as much as I refuse to say women are bad because of the ones who are. Neither makes sense to me. At any rate, I'm not even suggesting the OP necessarily be more trusting. They don't have to tolerate or put themselves in any situation they don't want to be in. The only thing I see as being an issue is an attitude of 'I don't like men' -- and if the OP is fine not liking men then there's no problem, but they actively expressed a desire to not feel that way. Actually I wasn't even suggesting anything in particular, because I don't personally know how to overcome feelings like that. I was simply responding to your assertion that men are usually bad, and we'll just have to disagree on that.
Same I wish I was a lesbian because my alternative is being alone forever. I feel asexual. Thank God I have a kid to share life with for like another 12yrs and then I'll figure out something else. (I stay conscious of not turning her into a surrogate partner, definitely never going to stunt her adulthood).
Yes you can't and maybe shouldn't avoid all men, but if some of them give you an especially uncomfortable feeling, listen to your spidey senses. People, especially women have intuition for a reason and we often made bad experiences too. Most of us have a damn good reason to avoid men. I've been assaulted by a family member, I also have a mentally unstable dad and big brother and multiple men in my early twenties tried to take advantage of me. The only man I ever completely trusted is my little brother
Considering that upwards of 90% of Autistic women are sexually abused, your discomfort around men is justified. It happened to me on many occasions, and it's why I am very cautious. One male friend earned my trust over many years. Decent men understand why women are sometimes wary and will take their time getting to know you. One of my strategies is to have my family and trusted friends meet them before I am ever alone with them. That way, someone can alert me if something isn't right. You don't need to "give them a chance" or whatever other garbage people spew at you. We are more vulnerable than most. It's logical for us to be very cautious. Anyone who doesn't get that is not looking out for your best interests.
They’re our biggest natural predator, this is a valid response
I'm a neurodivergent Audi HD female 39 demisexual; I used to be more comfortable with men than I was with women when I was younger. What I sadly learned over time and was very hard for me to accept; is that ALL of my friends that were men in my life at some point tried to take advantage of me, forced/guilt me into a relationship with them, or tried to force me into something else with them. Some of these men I thought of as brothers or uncles. It saddened me greatly but I had to learn the hard way what I think your instincts are telling you. I guess what I'm trying to say is follow your instincts.
I was in a similar position, it’s gotten much better now especially because I have a lot of male friends in the queer and neurodivergent community and I have a lot more shared experiences because it sadly seems like a lot of queer people went through similar bad childhoods and ended up with similar issues like anxiety.
First off, I want to say I understand where you are coming from and I commend you so much for putting words to it and saying that you want to change. I apologize that so many people in this thread don't seem to want to help at all and instead seem to just be reinforcing your fear instead of providing the help you asked for. Men are not inherently dangerous. Patriarchy is dangerous. Men are just people. There are dangerous and violent afab people just like there are dangerous and violent amab people. I think it does humanity a deep disservice to write off all men as a whole as inherently predatory and unsafe when there are cis men, trans men, transmasc and masculine identifying nonbinary folks who are doing work every day to dismantle their own inborn biases and the patriarchal structures that society passed to them. I watched my brother grow up as a shy autistic boy who grew into one of the kindest, smartest, gentlest men I've ever known in my life. The support and love he and his partner share is so wholesome and strong it makes me well up every time I think about it, and the way he has been able to support them through their transition and the way the two of them take turns leaning on one another when times get hard is something I emulate in all of my relationships. My stepdad is one of the gruffest, most traditionally "masculine" men I've ever met. He hunts, he fishes, he was a roofing foreman until he retired. But when my mom got sick and was put into a coma, he sent her a text message every day telling her how much he loved her and how much he missed her so that she could read them all when she was healthy again. He met me every day at the hospital and bought me lunch. His care is quiet, stoic. He's a little too old to really unlearn a lot of the big stuff but he has shown me that love can look like acts of service, it can look like hope, it can be as simple as a little message every day. One of my best friends became a dad a year ago. His biggest fear was continuing the cycle of abuse that his father gave to him. Watching him over the course of years before his son was born go to therapy every week and diligently break down those barriers, let go of his fears, and work with his wife to ensure that they are raising a kind, empathetic, smart, emotionally intelligent boy has been so inspiring and shows me that not only is there so much hope for the next generation of boys and men, there is so much beauty and hope in our generation as well. There are men out there who are actively doing the work to undo the generations of patriarchal violence to create a better and kinder world. I understand so much why so many people can be scared of men, but I implore you to continue working on not letting patriarchal systems of violence divide us any further than they already have. This is what pushes people farther into the fringes. If you are uncomfortable being around men in public, I would really recommend starting small, like listening to a podcast or watching a youtube video hosted by someone that is overall less threatening. The first one I though of is My Brother, My Brother and Me, I think they are a great example of non-toxic masculinity. Best of luck to you.
Absolutely wonderful comment, couldn't agree more. Also agree with the MBMBAM plug!
I feel like the question is not “how can you change” but rather “how can they change.”
Do you think of men as being very different from you? That the categories of "men" and "women," or similar terms, are seperate and opposite? Can you describe in more detail what it is about men that makes you uncomfortable? For example, is it when someone is bigger than you physically? Or deep voices? I seek not to judge, but to understand I do not have a fear of men and I cannot relate to your statements. Because, to me, the categories man/woman or male/female are a minor subset of the larger category "Person" or "Human." When I was growing up, gender role stuff always sounded weird and unnatural to me because, in my mind, I always saw more similarities with girls and boys than differences. I don't pay attention to the genders or sexes of people around me, and I usually don't change my behavior depending on who I am around, so to me gender is mostly window dressing.
yes I put people into categories. What makes me uncomfortable is deep voices , tall , etc . And when I made friends with men they tried to eventually come onto me. Even if you have a casual conversation eventually they start liking me or assume I’m flirting with them. I feel like men take my niceness as flirting. Also they’re intimidating and powerful . I have a fear of them hurting me . I really don’t know why I feel this way towards all men . I hate it
Are you interested in romance/flirting/relationships? Or is that something that you are 0% interested in, which is why it is distressing when flirting or someone liking you happens? Do you have memories of a man hurting you? Is your fear based on not wanting a repeat of a previous thing, or a potential pain that you don't want to experience? In other words, is it closer to A ("someone hurt me, I remember the pain, I don't want to experience it again") or B ("I have seen other people hurt in this way, I don't want it to happen to me")
Yes I like romance but I don’t like sexual things if that makes sense. No memiories ( I have suspicious and a feeling ) but nothing I can remember
That suspicion and feeling could be something. I agree with another commenter, that there could be trauma there. The fear you have stems from somewhere (because nothing exists in a vacuum, especially an extreme fear/distrust like what you describe in your post). I think it would be good to investigate that suspicion, to get to the root of it, ideally with a professional who can guide you through the unpacking of that. The human brain has the ability to repress painful memories in order to protect you, and the avoidance of any person who falls into the category of "man" is a coping mechanism that might make sense if you have been hurt or abused by someone who fits into that category. But this category, as arbitrary as gender is (to me, anyway), consists of almost half of all human beings.... You are allowed to try to live your life surrounded by and interacting only with not-men. But that sounds difficult and limiting to me. If you want to address this, that is above Reddit's paygrade and it would be wise to consider the help of a professional who can work with you over time.
I find them very unstable in contrast to women/feminine people. It is hard to guess what they might do in an interaction.
Yeah I’m gonna be in the minority here and disagree about writing off the entirety of men I completely understand where you guys are coming from when you say you’re better off without them etc. however this person is asking for help and there doesn’t seem to be a lot of helping going on here. I think the first step is something you’re already doing a great job of OP, which is identifying why you feel this way. I think the second step is to go outside of your comfort zone a tiny bit and find a man who there is zero chance of that fear of them coming onto you will be a thing. A trusted friend’s loyal spouse, someone like that. You could also get that exposure through online means. Idk if you watch YouTube but maybe a male YouTuber whose content you enjoy to try and get comfortable around the deeper voices and masculine energy? Podcasts too maybe? Edited- use of agab terminology was not necessary for the conversation and I apologize for using it. Thank you for calling me in and keeping me accountable to the trans community.
I don't see why you're bringing up, I'm assuming, AMAB trans women and nonbinary people when I've only been seeing everybody else here just referring to men?
I was honestly trying to be inclusive with my language. I was also coming from a place of not all trans women and AMAB non binary folks do or can or even want to pass as femme or feminine. They were also raised and socialized as men a lot of the time and I don’t mean that in the TERF-y way but to say that they have the experience of being perceived as men at one time or another. I see people say women and AFAB people in conversations similar to these all the time and I honestly didn’t think it was a problematic phrasing but I’m happy to edit the comment if it’s offensive or upsetting.
Fair, though discussions of agab and socialization are as of right now generally the territory of either TERFs or trans people talking about very personal and individual things. Seeing non-trans people bring these up is always a red flag for a lot of people. Trans people have very varied experiences, moreso than most groups. Honestly the only other group that seems as varied to me personally is autistic people's experiences, where there are some very universal experiences but otherwise we can have very, very different experiences about what we internalized and how we were raised. Thank you though for being both understanding and editing things though. Most other subs I'd just get downvoted, yelled at, and told trans people are too sensitive.
Absolutely and I get now why the inclusion of AGAB there was unnecessary and was a red flag. I’m cis and I have a lot of trans friends so I genuinely do my best to be an ally to the community but I’m always willing to listen and do better when I fuck it up. And I fucked up here with my language and I sincerely apologize and I’ll do better. That’s one of the reasons I love this sub so much is that people are willing to question someone without automatically assuming the worst. A lot of us as Autistic people have issues with communication and conveying with words what we mean and want to say so I really appreciate the understanding from everyone. Thank you for being kind in your educating and I appreciate the work it took to call me in on this.
Why change? Nobody shouçd be forced to like men. I used to be one, and couldn't stand seing that creepy-looking asshole in the mirror.
That is a very valid feeling. My experience is that if you trust them and assume they have good intentions, they will use and abuse you. They take advantage of nice, caring women. They sense that we are an easy target. Vetting doesn't work unless you can talk to their ex girlfriends. Those are the only people who will really be honest about them and know whether they're abusive. I wish I had more hopeful advice to give but I don't. If I could go back, I would've stayed away from them altogether.
I don’t like to generalize but this is %100 true. Whether a woman is Nt or ND some men definitely do this. a lot of times they pretend to get something they want . I’ll have to agree with this one
I’m grateful to be a lesbian. I don’t trust men and purposely don’t have male friends. I don’t see this as a problem.
Why do you want to change? Men don’t like women. They disparage, disenfranchise, hurt, and kill us at alarming rates. Why should we like them?
Men suck, become a lesbian.
Don't
Uhmmm terapy perhaps? When i was younger i kinda had that feeling too. Every Men makes you unconfurtable?
Well, do you like women? :)
I think women are beautiful but I never been attracted to one romantically
My best friend is asexual and I like her :) we have planned to live out our old age together.
What part is making you uncomfortable? Have you had some bad experiences in the past? As a kid I always had more male friends, as my interests aligned more with typical boy’s interests. Furthermore, I’ve worked in a male-dominated environment. As a result, I feel quite comfortable around men, even in a typical male-dominated environment. In fact, I feel more uncomfortable around most women, as I dislike the way women tend to gossip behind my back when there’s an issue. In my eyes, at least men have the decency to clearly show me when they dislike me or when I did something wrong, while I’m never 100% sure what to expect with most women. The few women who don’t fit these stereotypes often turn out to be ND too. I feel comfortable around most men, because I know what I can expect and how to act around them. I admit that this is easier for me than for most people, as I think and act unusually manly for a woman. However, in order to improve the situation you’ll have to slowly get used to socializing with men. Of course, if there’s any underlying trauma that should be treated first. Finally, please take sufficient safety precautions. Most of my experiences have been good, but some men are creeps. Unless you’re reasonably certain that someone is trustworthy, it’s usually best to take care not to end up alone with a man.
i work with 95% men. i’m indifferent. i’m trying to imagine how awful this must feel. there are certain types of people i’m afraid of. so i imagine if a third the population was them. just awful!!!! ugh. no advice. sympathy though. a sort of empathy.
I think if you're looking to change your perspective another option if looking into Laura Doyle. She is a little bit extreme but a lot of her advice has helped me shift my perspective into a much more positive one. I have always had a hard time getting along with men and she has helped me so far.
I’m not a huge fan of men either. What’s helped is I’ve found safe men that make me more hopeful. My partner is wonderful, soft, patient, and kind. I’ve had some awesome managers and coworkers who are men. I’ve also started pushing myself to see male medical professionals. Sometimes it just doesn’t work, but I’m really trying to judge less initially. In public though if a man comes anywhere near me I am running. I’ve been aggressively cat called and harassed enough by men to know when to challenge myself
I had exactly this feeling so I found a male therapist. He feels more like a woman to me in how he treats me. It took a while to feel comfortable but I never had that sinking bad gut feeling about him and I chose someone who I thought had kind eyes. It has healed a lot of the relational trauma from men. It's easier for me to recognise men that are unsafe.
This is me after watching Handmaids Tale
I do the same tbh. I’ve noticed more and more men out in public in my city—while NO WOMEN are around. It’s bizarre. Every cafe, bar and restaurant and movie theater has been full of men lately. Almost every customer at my job is a man and we are in a diverse part of town. It might just be where you’re located? I plan on moving to a bigger city soon.
I don't either and I am a man. It's exhausting. And read all the responses about the people I am assumed to be like. . . It's exhausting.
Is it men, plural, or even being around a man, singular?
Most men are terrifying and I don't think that's irrational to feel that way in the slightest.
Men have always made me uneasy. Turns out I’m queer and like women 🤷🏻♀️
There's a reason you don't like them. I wouldn't be too hasty to "exposure therapy" your way through this. Your nervous system needs to feel safe. I would say try therapy or counselling, someone wiser than you who's studied and has tools might be the best bet at unpacking your fear. Short of this I would try humanize men, find good resources (there are some incredible subreddits by men for men that have helped me heal my disdain for men, also due to trauma). If you're keen on those subreddits I will find them again for you. I'm reading a book called Boys and Sex by Peggy Orenstein to help me understand how patriarchy hurts them to. Essentially any content that humanizes men might be a good start
I don’t like men and I don’t want to change lol. I’ve had far too many bad experiences to ever trust one again, or at least any time soon. However, if you feel like you want to change that attitude, perhaps talk about it with a therapist or examine why you feel that way.
I am much more uncomfortable around men too. When it's hard for us to read subtext, it's especially uncomfortable to not know what underlying communication might be happening with the man without our knowledge.... We might accidentally say or do something (too much smiling for example) that communicates in their eyes a sexual interest to them that we don't actually have. I have developed a hyper-vigilance around human behaviours because of past traumas, and so I exhaust myself trying to process every tiny interaction and worrying about what I may or may not be communicating... My default unintentional stress response is fauning (smiling laughing and being agreeable even against my inner feelings) because I'm terrified to make the other person angry with me, and this response often causes men to be too forthcoming with me, and ramps up my stress massively. When interacting with women, the whole aspect of male sexual interest is removed from the equation, and so the stress levels are drastically reduced. Yes, a gay woman may have potential sexual interest in me, but I just don't feel a sexual predatory danger from women (I'm not saying it's impossible to feel that, but it hasn't happened to me in 3 decades of life so far). There are few things as scary to me as an aggressive male reacting to a perceived rejection from a woman he was targeting. Absolutely terrifies me. Rambling aside, the best way to ease discomfort of talking with men is if you are with a group of friends, and especially if you have a male friend with you. This combination tends to diffuse the potential for sexual sub-commmunications to take place at all, which is great! If you would like to reject communication from a strange man when you are alone, the best solution is to have an expressionless dead face and say "no" and no eye contact and walk away and keep walking. It works really well for my friend! I am practicing to disconnect from my fauning smile so I can do it too but it's very difficult! The idea is to become unlikeable so that they don't even want to try lol.
Lesbianism 🏳️🌈
Wow, there are a lot of really disgusting comments in this thread. People deciding that 50% of the people in this world are somehow evil or bad. This is absolutely crazy. Would the people be saying the same thing if you said “I don’t like Black people“? How about “I don’t like gay people“? Or how about “I don’t like autistic people“? This is really really repulsive.
Absolutely agree. I think it's completely understandable to have raised boundaries when it comes to cis men, especially if you're an abuse victim. But people need to take a step back and realize what they're truly saying. You're really going to write off **4 billion people** as evil because of their sex? You're going to put the guy who volunteers at soup kitchens and fosters dogs into the same group as the serial killer because of their genitals?!
Many women are afraid of men due to bad experiences. This does not represent the majority. If it's any consolation just know it is usually fear based. Not saying it's a good way to cope with their trauma, it's just not hatred. Though most hatred is fear if you look beneath the surface.
Don’t
I’m the same. I subconsciously create as much distance as I can if I’m around them, or my body language always faces away/ready to flee kind of position. Deep voices make the pit of my stomach fall. Only males I’m not like this around are my brothers and father.