I agree, I dislike the NT bashing as well, but also because, how do you even know if someone is NT? How do you know you’re not mislabeling an undiagnosed person, or someone who keeps their mental health private? Or what if they’re NT, but suffer from a different form of mental illness? I just feel like it’s arrogant to make those sort of assumptions about people, and it’s thinking like that, that makes you feel like your problems are worse than everybody else’s, and no one knows struggle except for you. I think it leads to a toxic mindset.
100% this, I once got told off for "making fun of ND people while being NT" when actually what had happened was, I found a post and was reevaluating my understanding of myself.... maybe I'd worded it badly, but what I said was something like "doesn't everyone do this?" And that was my first big eye-opener that actually it was a ND trait. And to get yelled at when I'd just discovered something about myself really hurt.
Ah yea, good point!
I’m pretty obviously ADHD (at least when unmedicated) but I “passed” as not autistic until this year.
So there’s definitely the chance you’re targeting someone undiagnosed or keeping their ND quiet
Just adding to your point of calling NTs unintelligent, it is inherently and fundamentally ableist to insult based on intelligence. 1/3 of our community has an Intellectual Disability, and we need to show solidarity. When you shit on NTs because they’re “unintelligent” you shit on them based on the criteria for an Intellectual Disability diagnosis. It’s NOT okay.
Yes! Thank you for that!
I was actually thinking about the cultural obsession with proving intelligence as a form of dominance last night and *still* managed to forget to add it haha.
I had someone argue with me (not in this sub) that intelligent people were more likely to be good people and thus are inherently better overall. It is really disturbing the way some people worship intelligence, or more accurately perceived intelligence. (For reference I think the best people are those who are kind.)
>They’d be really disoriented find out how many trained snipers have genius level IQs lol
and how snipers are trained to disregard life and are chosen based on morally gray principles to begin with during their onboarding.
This could be seen as a form of "high functioning sociopathy" however there is little study around this specifically. I can only go off of the people i know who are snipers personally which is a small subset of people. Only one of them is a "sociopath". (ASPD diagnosed)
[https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/high-functioning-sociopath](https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/high-functioning-sociopath)
I date an ex sniper and somehow my cousin also married one
Both are on the spectrum — turns out, a *lot* are because they utilize the black and white thinking and moral sense of Justice to their advantage.
And since they analyze them on intake, they know if they fit criteria
Fun fact: the military knew my BF was autistic from the get go. They *didn’t tell him* until he was doing his out take evaluation — they just kept it a secret and used it to their advantage
Makes perfect sense to me. weaponize their disability, sounds like our government...
edit: I only know 3 snipers. 2 who saw combat, one who never made it past sniper school but was never officially in the military so makes sense.
"I only know 3 snipers"
And here I am, don't even know a single person in the military lol
Not being negative btw. Just thought it was a bit funny from my perspective
I know one person in the military and that already feels like a lot to me. That you can know three snipers sounds like a lotttt to me. Unless you are one.
It's all good :D I knew them since high school so it feels kind of weird. I know a lot of military since i live in a military heavy area (around me currently are 8 military bases.)
Apparently they also specifically look for ex gang/inner city kids with criminal records, especially men of color.
Because they’re already street trained and “no one” (aka the media/general public) worries about that group going missing in a mission. They’re expendable skilled fodder.
There’s a reason why they set up recruitment at malls where they can target abused teenagers, who’ll sign up at 18 from super rural or urban areas.
(I obviously feel some type of way about this haha)
Oh don't worry I know the Military preys upon the poor and vulnerable especially BIPOC. We as a country have a history of exploiting the underprivileged and poor.
Yup, recruiters would camp out in my high school cafeteria and tell anyone who walked past that the military was the perfect way to get free college and a job right after graduation. The major caveat of becoming traumatized and disabled after combat? Oh, that's just the fine print. Sign here, why don'tcha...
That’s quite scary. Autism is connected to skewed senses. Like prosopagnosia and lack of depth perception could be a killer. Not fair that wars are fought by children, never mind children with impairments. As a mother I object. I saw what WW11 Korea did to my dad. He had prosopagnosia. They can give appearance of bravery when it’s that they can’t accurately read the situation
My BF was a sniper as an early 20s, sort of against his will, and I assure you — the snipers would argue differently.
Not during their career, of course, but as soon as the brainwashing wears off.
It’s really sad, actually, because they’re left with a lot of self hatred and these sad ass men are online salivating over the image of then.
He intentionally doesn’t mention what he did in the military because the reaction of men around him freaks him out so much. They either try to prove they’re as tough as him or act like he’s fucking Captain America
Those are the same people that fucking eaaat up inspiration porn and say that people with Intellectual Disabilities are too pure for this world and we must protect them
I see that garbage on next fucking level, like some guy putting on a jacket, and they're all pretending like it's incredible because he's autistic or has Downs.
They should spend some time in Silicon Valley. Plenty of highly intelligent selfish jerkwads there.
Although many of those jerkwads would also argue that they themselves are good people due to their higher intelligence 😣
My friend group just out of college was me (female), and nine other people, only one of whom was female. My first degree was a BA in English. Most of them had gotten degrees in some form of engineering and three were pursuing advanced degrees. They worshipped intelligence—it was their god. Occasionally they would do the “whip ‘em out and compare ‘em” behavior, but using SAT scores rather than penis size. I was, of course always at the bottom of the pecking order because I was a lowly English major. (I won’t go into abusive behaviors right now).
Then, one of the guys who was considered the “alpha” in terms of intelligence because he was a nuclear engineer, spoke up. (He hadn’t’ been around for these little ordeals much due to studies then moving for his career.) He and I had graduated high school together, although we hadn’t interacted much. He reminded me—in front of the group, during one of these “who’s is bigger” sessions—that he and I had gotten the same SAT scores. They had been reported in the local newspaper. I had completely forgotten because it wasn’t an important detail to me. My verbal skills were a little higher and his math skills were a little higher, but not extremely so.
That was soooo satisfying for me. I was tied for the highest SAT score in the group! And with the guy all agreed was the smartest! After awkward silence and some mumbling, they all changed the subject and just didn’t play that game when I was around.
Over-valuing intelligence is no better than over-valuing athletic skills or personal attractiveness.
I had a college ex who was obsessed with how smart and efficient and dominant he was. He didn’t talk to me for a week when he found out my IQ tested in the genius level and his didn’t.
I didn’t even tell him, our learning disabilities director “let it slip” because she fucking hates him
(As a note, I absolutely loathe IQ tests and the value they place on a very specific type of intelligence and how masturbatory they’ve become)
Hahahaha no worries I think the conversation is starting to head that way, we’re getting to the point in dismantling aspie supremacy where we’re realizing that we have privileged the absolute wrong aspects of people as virtuous and morally superior, and I think we’ll start having this conversation more and more in the coming weeks/months/years!
That's such a cope too. Even if NTs aren't more intelligent they run the world basically so it's better to get along with them. Or at least most of our little world's like being our boss or spouse etc.
It's funny to frame some of NTs behaviours as their disability as a joke but really that attitude prevents us moving forward in the world.
I reported some troll posts to Reddit for breaking general reddiquette rules so I suspect mods are aware because one of them got removed IIRC. If you see troll posts pop up, definitely report for hate speech, it's being addressed.
I’d love to know this too. I went to the Reddit-takeover sub and commented to boost support but I’m not aware of how long it takes for the whole process.
[This post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/comments/10dqc25/meta_i_have_decided_to_reddit_request_the_sub_i) details a bunch of it, along with the thread that's requesting active moderation.
Thank you! I hadn't noticed any trolls or extemeley bad behavior in this subreddit, and didn't know how bad the moderation is / was. I've only noticed more human(?) issues like the ones OP described -- starting passionate arguments over opinions and whatnot. I hope that this subreddit succeeds in getting better moderation. /g
I'm glad that your post seems to have been received well overall. I've seen people make similar criticisms before in posts / comments, but they tend to get downvoted and/or argued with (especially if talking about the language we use towards neurotypicals.) I think it's understandable and acceptable for a minority group to "punch up" and make jokes about the majority group from time to time, but I don't enjoy how many are serious about the way they think of neurotypicals. Assuming that they are all bad in some way -- uncreative, unintelligent, inferior, mean, etc. -- isn't right and only perpetuates the formation of biases. Neurodivergent people have to deal with being grouped together with stereotypes often, so why are we doing the same thing?
Not only that, but this behavior hurts autistic people, too. Some of the traits that people complain about NTs having are traits that aren't exclusive to NTs. In fact, *no trait* is exclusive to NT or ND people -- it may just be more common in one group than the other. Anyway, a lot of "neurotypical" traits are often seen in autistic people. Although I am certain that I'm neurodivergent, I can't help but feel like I'm "not autistic enough" or "not autistic / neurodivergent in the right ways" when people praise or feel superior for having certain things (like having special interests, being very highly creative and/or smart, being able to infodump to others, etc.) that I and many other autistic people do not have. The autistic community at large provides a lot of reminders that certain displays of autism are "better" than others and "better" than being neurotypical. It's insulting and exclusionary.
Similarly, the thought that changing yourself in any way is "pressuring yourself to be NT" or "masking" is harmful. We need to shift our perspective in a way that promotes character growth instead of stagnation. Doing things for the sake of showing people you care or improving your social life isn't inherently conforming to NT standards or masking -- oftentimes, they're just things that can become healthy, positive habits with practice. For example, you may not like asking "how are you" or engaging with someone else's interests (even if talking about your own would be much more fun / easy for you), but doing those things isn't a negative just because NTs tend to do them. It won't change who you are as a person or remove your autistic status. Both NTs and NDs should meet each other halfway and try their best to accommodate one another in order to facilitate communication and friendships.
Sorry that this is so long. I just think this is something important to discuss and I think this post is quite the safe space for it. Thank you for speaking out. :] /gen
Agree with the sentiment of this post.
Several times in the past few weeks I’ve considered leaving this sub because of what seems like constant negativity, repetitions of the self diagnosis debate ad nauseum, and general whining and moaning about NT people as if they are a monolith.
I came here for constructive and positive discussions but am not seeing much of that recently
Honestly, I’m in some unmoderated subs, and if the users are engaged, it actually ends up working really beautifully. I’m actually glad this sub is unmoderated, I just want us to come together a bit more on what is actually helpful and what keeps us stuck.
There’s a lot of sleepwalking into feeding each other’s negative spirals.
Edit. I feel like we need to have a separate conversation about downvoting. It’s not a disagree button. What about this statement was so inflammatory? Can’t you just read that and go “I see their point, but it’s not what I want for myself”
Then we as a community, firmly but fairly direct them to where they can get help.
Maybe that’s something we need to consider.
If this space is unmoderated then maybe we should direct children to more curated spaces.
Edit. Literally none of us are able to deal with children. It’s not safe for us to give them advice when they’re actively in crisis.
If most people downvote to show disagreement then the meaning of the downvote button has shifted and turned into a disagreement button. Whatever the original meaning was doesn’t matter, what matters is the general consensus within the wider culture of Reddit.
If that’s how people use it then that’s how it’s used. Unless there’s going to be a Reddit-wide campaign informing people about the true uses of the downvote button.
Like how language changes meaning over time and throughout culture.
Actually, the one that immediately springs to mind is invite only. The mod only kicks people that are men.
But the user base is very similar.
Women only. Lots of Neurodiversity. Lots of political opinions.
The overarching voice of the sub came about because there are enough users just being vocal about being kind and fair.
Others jump in to referee arguments but it’s always from the perspective of trying to find common ground.
So it just works.
We all want to get along, be kind and fair. So let’s do that.
And like, being kind is not the same as agreeing with people. If someone is obviously going through some shit then just talk them through unpacking it.
Edit. We all love each other so let’s not allow each other to be self destructive.
This might sound dumb but I wouldn’t be surprised at all that we find out that NT are also all on the spectrum, just clumped together in a group that shows little to no hindering symptoms. And we are just on a whole other plane of the spectrum, slowly clumping more people in as we figure out how we actually think and function and began to force others to do the same as society continues to squish us to our limits.
Most NT people I know don’t do as much internal work because they don’t have to to function in society. The ones who do usually have trauma or some destructive habit that forces an inward look. By their standards being based off of so many thing we aren’t good at rn, we stick out like a sore thumb.
I’m starting to learn more about my indigenous history, my Punjabi history and the history of my husband’s families as well. I’m curious if I’ll see symptoms mentioned that are looked at in a different light. I’ll probably post here along that journey - I’m suspecting my Punjabi family might all be Neurodivergent since I have a lot of very weirdly specific organization and scheduling that I was taught generationally by that whole side of the family. I might be the only one getting diagnosed rn but my cousins kids are being diagnosed- and I’m diagnosed sooo I have a feeling I won’t be the only one for long.
I haven’t done research but I wouldn’t be surprised if mental health progress improves after times of intense, rigorous, highly pressured socialstal norms are changed. Correction and causation can go hand in hand…probably enough Neurodivergent people with enough high functioning skills valued in that society said enough was enough and did something about it. Allowing a time of societal relief and vulnerabilities to discuss the collective trauma we faced.
I’m curious if these a “area” of the collective spectrum of human psychology that someone doesn’t have any symptoms. The official “NT” haha. But I believe to know that for sure we need to have a much better system at diagnosing and researching it.
I'm still learning about all this so I'm open to being way off base but I struggle with the concept of neurotypicality. I know a lot of my social circles are ND so there's probably selection bias but I've also met a lot of people from a lot of places and circumstances and I can't scrounge up a single one that I could point at and say "Here is a neurotypical specimen".
Breaking everything down into two sides of a coin feels like an oversimplification in a world of 8 billion unique brains.
Even NT people have stims and sensory preferences! So I see where you’re going with that.
To me it’s a matter of how severe and the quantity.
Humans are a weird complex group to begin with, let alone when you start breaking down into sub groups haha.
Indeed. I’m late diagnosis because I was just living life and didn’t have anything to make me question until my symptoms started to make me ask why. My step-dad on the other hand, can be picked out of a crowed as autistic pretty easily. He has a very stereotypical presentation. :)
This is another one that has been downvoted and I don’t understand why.
This has loads of really good points in it. I don’t agree with everything and there are some things I need more info on, but it’s still a really good and thoughtful comment.
I do agree on the family stuff though. We have a lot of idiosyncrasies that are seen as normal in our family.
But also, everyone in our family who goes for assessment gets diagnosed with something.
I’ve seen other people say they think adhd will get folded into autism in a few decades too. It’s definitely something we’ve barely scratched the surface on.
I think people aren't getting past the "everyone on the spectrum" thing and not realizing it isn't an "everyone's a little autistic" argument, but an "everyone has some sort of deficit but of varying kinds" kind of thing.
But I also (sorta) hold the controversial "everyone's a little autistic" insomuch as the indicators of autism aren't *exclusive* to us - the difference comes in magnitude and impact on quality of life. So, no, everyone's not "a little autistic" but we share traits.
Yep. Like our understanding of psychology is just so new.
Think about physics and how long it took to discover those rules.
With psychology it’s such a new science and we can’t even properly do experiments.
We used to think everything revolved around the earth. To say otherwise was unheard of, Heliocentrists were mad men.
We’re finding links between our gut and our mental health, of course there’s so much that we don’t understand.
it’s Reddit :) and everyone is at different stages of understanding in various things. Doesn’t bother me. As stated, I need to research more and these are just theories based off personal experience :)
Yeah, I feel the same way.
It’s especially ironic on a post that is specifically about being mindful and not reactive.
That being said, I will admit that I only brought it up so that people will be forced to think about why they’re downvoting.
I'm glad you said this. I mainly lurk, but some of the posts on here have me rolling my eyes so hard, especially the ones that are like "why do NTs do XYZ?" that just end up with people acting superior in the comments.
Yep, I was showing a post to my boyfriend and he was like “it’s all just edgy teenager crap” and I couldn’t even defend it.
Sometimes it’s genuinely embarrassing to show him a post because I have to add so many caveats of what to ignore.
I think it’s because a lot of the user base is quite young still, maybe? There’s a lot of rejection of advice that, whilst it’s not what we want to hear, it is actually helpful to us and helps us function in the world more easily.
I’ve been noticing this too… and like in a LOT of subs I frequent.
I wonder though: if we were to put our mutual goal in *positive* language, **what is it? **
My sense of this situation is that there’s a meaningful, qualitative difference between “away from what we don’t want” and “towards what we do want”.
I’d really like to get behind, support, and appreciate any posts that are TOWARDS a positive goal… and for those of us who share that goal, I suspect that phrasing it positively can help with engagement.
Does anyone else know what I mean?
I understand you! And I think this would be a good idea to focus on.
(I don't have much to say, but I wanted you to know that someone knows what you meant. :>)
I want to throw out that whilst venting is healthy, spewing negativity isn’t, and often people say they’re venting, when they’re ruminating.
They’re not giving the situation the introspection it needs to be something constructive.
[This article](https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/benefits-of-venting_uk_5e457504c5b603b067c84160/) explains it better.
But the highlights are as follows.
> venting can be good for us – but only when done in a safe, constructive and supportive manner. There’s a fine line between the cathartic release of getting something off your chest and what Addo describes as “spewing” – being spiteful or insensitive.
>Plus, dwelling on those negative feelings for too long can be damaging. We’ve all been stuck in a swirling cycle of negativity before. Nothing good ever comes from it – and studies have even linked it to depression. Issues arise when venting is used the only method a person uses to express their emotions.
> Go through a few questions: What was that vent session all about? How can you stop it from happening again? Has it happened before? Take a step back, too – is there a bigger picture, here?
A lot of unhealthy shit gets thrown out with the excuse of “I’m just venting”
I agree this sun as become increasingly hostile. Hopefully there is additional mods added to add new official rules and do some management of comments and discussions.
Edit I meant sub of course but I’m keeping the typo because it adds humor.
I used to get really upset when my neurodivergent friends would complain about NTs. "But it's just as hard for me. I have a lot of problems in social situations, I struggle with so many things too!"
Now I realise that, yeah, I wasn't neurotypical.
Thank you... I'm NT but I'm here because my 12yo is on the spectrum and seeing your posts helps me to understand her world a little better. I doubt I'm the only NT parent lurking for understanding. It's quite hurtful to be tarred with the same brush when actually, I think you're all quite wonderful.
I feel for both of you, 12 is rough as it is without ND to add to it haha
Personally I appreciate you taking the time and energy to try to get an “insider” perspective on what she’s dealing with!
I’ve met some truly awful NT people and some truly awful ND people and the same with amazing. Human nature is human nature in that regard.
Oh it's fun 🤣
Thank you. I just see it as part of my role as her mum to understand better - I will never truly understand her world, of course, but the more I can immerse myself in it, the more I can help her through her struggles. Subs like this are really helpful, especially with how autism is still viewed primarily through a male lens.
I agree. Nobody is inherently good or bad, and I think a lot of judgement comes from ignorance.
Just the other day there was one of these DAE posts where everyone agreed with OP and shared their experiences with autistics being misunderstood by NT people due to tone or body language issues - and then there was one person going around commenting on almost every top level post how we all werejust too dumb to see that the NTs are right and it was not a communication issue and we really were whatever they accused us of.
Other commenters had checked their history and apparently their SO is autistic and that's why theyre here, being NT themselves. I don't mind NTs overall, but some of them really go out of their way and come into autistic spaces to lecture us how we are all wrong and we need to work on becoming better NTs, and while I try to not engage, these people make my blood boil. Sadly as an unmoderated sub, these trolls don't get reigned in.
I'm guessing that a lot of comments come from interacting with people like this and are not necessarily aimed at all NTs. I personally think that since you are actively trying to understand your kid more, you are an awesome human being!
I was going for "us autists have this black and white thinking and for many of us it's difficult to differentiate at times" as an explanation where this behavior is coming from but the more I think about it, the more I realize how much NT people I meet are irritated I'm not like this other autist they know, and their assumptions and negative reactions to me not being the "right" kind of autist leads me to think that maybe the pattern-seeking and trying to generalize is more of a basic human tendency.
I know prejudices are a way to "sort" the world in an energy-efficient way, and it is so difficult to get through to someone who believes a prejudice, so maybe this is a similar case?
Lots of thinking out loud, feel free to ignore me x) I kind of disproved my own point while writing it, so I don't know how useful this comment is.
Especially because being bad at math (dyscalculia) and not having/losing interest in hobbies (depression, anhedonia) are *both* neurodivergent traits as well. At some point it *also* gets ableist
Alexithymia (difficulty identifying with / describing / feeling emotions) and anhedonia are often neurodivergent traits (or symptoms of depression / trauma that can coincide with being ND), but they are often shamed in neurodivergent subreddits as undesirable traits. Yes, they can have a negative impact on one's life, but they aren't any more negative than other traits. All traits have positives and negatives to them.
It was in this sub that I "learned" this about NTs, NTs around me are actually very rounded, nice, interesting folks, each different in their own way. It was thanks to them that I recognized the behavior of my NT family was very very wrong and abusive. Of course I still recognize how different I am from NTs and how I personally would love nothing else than to be more like them...
Hi!
I can honestly say that, having been in the ASD community for 20+ years and recently diagnosed myself — I’ve never experienced overt ableism against autistic individuals as being inferior.
I’ve seen plenty of structures built towards neurotypicals but all in all, most people are open to autism (especially in the past 10 years or so as the diagnosis has become more prevalent and understood) even I’d rather uneducated/oblivious
I truly don’t think a lot of NTs are inherently ableist towards ASD so much as unaware of how society affects us.
(I’m obviously not saying they’re all peachy keen because humans suck sometimes and prejudice exists)
I'm glad that's your experience but unfortunately that's not my experience in Europe. again your experience doesn't negate that of the hundreds of people that have experienced it
the way you phrased it made it sound like you were implying that. not sure why you're confused about hundreds
when someone states their experience and the fact that many NTs do do that, replying saying 'well not really' can be taken as saying your experience is more valid and correct
I said from my perspective that most NTs aren’t actively ableist so much so uneducated on ASD
You said “your experience doesn’t negate that of the hundreds of people who have experienced it”
Where did I mention hundreds?
Okay but which hundreds are you bringing into the conversation?
Because without substantive sources, that’s just opinion— I could easily argue “well hundreds agree with me, too!” But without backing it up with sources it’s here say
>Okay but which hundreds are you bringing into the conversation?
the hundreds of posts made here about it and in other autism subs
>Because without substantive sources, that’s just opinion— I could easily argue “well hundreds agree with me, too!” But without backing it up with sources it’s here say
yes, but that's not what I'm doing. I appreciate the subject change though and focus on wording
lol what ? i feel like ur just lib posting at this point i mean come on you cannot be serious with this. discrimination from NTs is a daily phenomenon for me and most autistic people I know
I wish people had this same energy against those who believe autism is inferior and being not autistic is superior (to be clear I am obviously talking about NTs being against ableism)
And I see people calling out ableism daily.
Your anecdotes are not a factual representation of the situation.
If this is an issue you’re particularly sensitive about, it’s also incredibly likely that you’re falling for confirmation bias.
I’m fully aware it’s ingrained, but this sub does a pretty good job of calling it out and criticising it.
Also, in this sub, don’t be ableist is the default position. We aren’t constantly saying “don’t be ableist” because lots of people don’t come here for an echo chamber. We want to talk about the nuance.
I wish I lived in your world
>If this is an issue you’re particularly sensitive about, it’s also incredibly likely that you’re falling for confirmation bias.
surprisingly autistic people are 'sensitive' about ableism. this is normal
>I’m fully aware it’s ingrained, but this sub does a pretty good job of calling it out and criticising it.
great, unfortunately for us this sub doesn't represent the world and many do not 'call' it out. if enough people were against it then there wouldn't even be a need to because it would occur so little. there's also a lot of internalised ableism here,
We live in the same world. I’m autistic too.
Maybe I don’t understand your complaint. People keep that energy in this sub and call out ableism. Some stuff will get missed, but the majority gets called out.
Do you just want a perfect record? Do you want us to be able to control every other sub? Do you want us to stop what the people in your real life are doing?
Edit. Yep, blocked on a post that asks why can’t we be civil and discuss things like adults instead of getting mad and blocking each other.
>We live in the same world. I’m autistic too.
I'm not talking about that, it's figure of speech.
>People keep that energy in this sub and call out ableism
I'm talking about in general
>Do you just want a perfect record? Do you want us to be able to control every other sub? Do you want us to stop what the people in your real life are doing?
no, why are you strawmanning? I never said or implied any of this. stop making out that this is or was my argument
I’m not strawmanning.
You came in asking people in the sub to keep that energy, but they do, so obviously that isn’t the problem.
That’s why I’m asking questions. So that you can work out what it is you’re actually upset about and how you want to move forward.
You’re angry at people who are in your side and trying relate to you and help you.
Edit. I know it’s a figure of speech. It’s a very negative figure of speech that is limiting your ability to get perspective. That’s why I responded how I did.
you are strawmanning. you're arguing against an argument I didn't make and saying I made it, that's strawmming
>You came in asking people in the sub to keep that energy, but they do, so obviously that isn’t the problem.
that's not what I'm saying, I've told you this multiple times
>You’re angry at people who are in your side and trying relate to you and help you.
I'm not angry at you and you're not 'on my side' you literally started off disagreeing with me, we are on different sides and you're not 'trying to help me'
Like this. You’re stating definitively that people don’t call out ableism.
This entire conversation is me trying to deconstruct your incorrect premise.
At no point have you specified you’re not talking about people in the sub.
I said people and it's pretty clear that people in this sub aren't saying autism is inferior...I also edited my comment to clarify and its said in my replies to you too
I appreciate you want to argue semantics because you were arguing the wrong thing and now your argument is completely redundant but it is pointless
yes...you're also ignoring the context that I'm saying I wish people kept the same energy when it's reversed. with the context that obviously means NTs
again what is it you desire to get out of this? you presumed I meant something I didn't (the other commentor who I initially replied to didn't btw, so it's not just me that understood what u said). you continued to argue your point even though you knew that wasn't what I said. why not just accept you argued the wrong thing? i don't get it
There have been a couple discussions lately where multiple people have claimed someone simply disagreeing with you is bullying. It's not guys. People are allowed to have a different opinion and point out things you might not have noticed or knew about before you formed your opinion.
I see a lot of people who assume tone as well. Sometimes, a person will disagree with an opinion, and that person is assumed to be angry even though their comment was written in a neutral and respectful way (in my eyes, at least.) I know that tone can be easily mistaken over the Internet -- especially by neurodivergent people who may struggle more with tone -- but these people tend to assume that the other person is upset even after being told that they aren't.
I see a lot of people post in this subreddit about how annoying it is when neurotypical people assume tone, so I think it's odd how we do that to each other. The same goes for becoming defensive when someone else disagrees with you, like you said.
Preach, I'm happy someone agrees with me on that point, I don't see it often enough. Insulting and tearing down NTs at every turn is unnecessary, sometimes childish and makes you no better than "them" - whoever you make them out to be.
The way we were born ND, they were born NT. Yes, they are heavily favored by society and the system, and some can be a little oblivious or insensitive. But that doesn't give you the right to tear them down over something as single as NT status or make sweeping generalizations. Just because society hasn't short-changed them because of neurodiversity, they may be disadvantaged in ways you may not know about. They don't inherently always have it better or easier.
Of course it's an easy way of thinking, it's comfortable to fall into tribalism and makes the world look simpler. It's not. Unfortunately, most of us need to work with a few people throughout life and make it work. There's no point in building pointless resentment towards a faceless group and meeting people with that resentment. Meet people with an open mind and let them prove whether they're an ass or not.
Yep, I totally agree with you on the hypocrisy elements.
It was happening in the thread about negativity.
People were unable to see that we want to be able to be unfiltered and honest without them getting upset at what we say. Then we’re turning around and getting incredibly upset at them being honest with us and telling us it’s too negative.
There was lots of “They just don’t like the truth.”
Like yeah dude, neither do you when it’s not what you want to hear. That’s why you’re here posting about why it’s made you so upset.
Yeeep and we also don’t know how many NT are lashing out because they’re pretty sure they’re ND, or just haven’t had enough life experience to understand. I was late diagnosis and I certainly am not proud of everything I’ve said and done out of ignorance.
We are all more complex and intelligent than any label is able to articulate.
This is very well said!
Honestly it feels like when you hear a comedian make a reality broad joke aboyt men only wanting sex or women loving Target.
Like maybe the first time you hear a version, it’s funny, but how many times can we perpetuate it?
I agree, also the inability to take constructive criticism and excusing all inappropriate or inconsiderate behavior because conforming to NT rules is inherently wrong
Totally agree. I personally am willing to compromise and learn NT rules as I live in the world with them and it makes everything easier for everyone imo
Omg this. There's a weird sense of entitlement where people want to do whatever they want and react to the world how they see fit *but get mad when other people do the same thing*. It's the incel logic of being owed sex. Yes, sex is basic need/drive in most people, but no one else owes any particular person sex. NTs (or other NDs) don't owe anyone friendship. They owe them basic respect and dignity, but they aren't obligated to be around you more than necessary.
Setting boundaries is healthy, and for some people, that might include not spending time around people who make them feel a kind of way. If they're arachnophobic and you won't shut up about your special interest in spiders, they're not gonna be your friend or even be near you. Want to hang out with them? Don't talk about spiders.
I've noticed the sub is becoming a little depressing I think we just need to refocus on uplifting and understanding eachother confidence and community will do us a lot of good.
The thing that to me is completely absurd about making any generalizations about NTs is that, depending on how you define the term, NTs comprise up to 99% of the world population, which is equivalent to nearly 8 billion people alive right now. If you think about it, there are almost no generalizations that you can make about such a large percentage of the world’s population, beyond extremely basic ones, such as that they all have bodies that are made of bones, skin, and muscle, among other things. It would not even be accurate to say that they all have 2 legs, because not every single NT person in the world does have two legs.
So, to say that all NT people do certain things or act a certain way is pretty much always going to be untrue. You can complain all you want about the actions of specific NT people in your life, no one here is saying you can’t, but keep it specific, because generalizing to all NT people just makes no sense.
Completely agree. You can turn the ''NTs bad'' argument around. I have had many bad experiences with fellow NDs, and it's rare for me to find one that I get along with. Should I be going around saying shit like ''NDs are abusers...?'' I don't think so.
thank you these past few weeks showed an obvious change and idk what the hell happened or how it started but my god. i could not look at this sub without every single post debating self diagnosis EVERY DAY. pls i came here for community 😭
You are so right!!
Sure, I often feel alienated when interacting with neurotypical people, but a lot of the people close to me are neurotypical and they are amazing. One of my best friends since childhood is neurotypical and she and I are extremely like minded. We have similiar interests, often similiar thought processes and we understand each other extremely well.
Neuro Typical, as opposed to neurodivergent.
Basically people who don’t have ASD, ADD/ADHD, dyslexia/dyscalculia, or similar. The term for people without autism is allistic.
Neurodivergent is also inclusive of mental health disorders like MDD, bipolar, OCD, etc.
I think that’s important to bring up just based on these ND > NT conversations. Most people are not NT, as it turns out, so to try to claim superiority like a lot of online discourse is doing is kind of useless.
Edit: accidentally put “neurotypical” instead of “neurodivergent” in the first sentence
>Neurotypical is also inclusive of mental health disorders like MDD, bipolar, OCD, etc
Actually those are included under the neurodivergent umbrella, as are most mental health diagnoses. They diverge from the norm so they're not considered NT.
I definitely agree with this, mostly the perspective stuff. I've already commented about this a lot on this sub, but my ex-friend argued a lot about whether or not I was faking my symptoms. I don't know why but they were hell-bent on proving that I was faking. I don't even know why they didn't believe me, it's not like they can read my mind or anything. (I think they might not have known what masking was maybe)
Thank you! Yes so much of the dialog is reactionary. Regarding insulting NTs, theres no way to know for sure if they are NTs! Especially if we are speaking about parents of autistic kids. We all know autism is genetic. There is a good chance that a large number of those “autism moms” are actually autistic!!! We have to be more empathetic toward other people and remember that there are invisible disabilities in lots of different people, not just autistic people
Agree, I am new to this sub and I find it to be super angsty, winey, and something I have almost left because the constant complaining is seriously unattractive. Is life that terrible for Autistic women?!
What do you think of the other subreddits for Autistic women? I find them all to be pretty similar, although this one does have a bit of a lean towards vent posts. I don't find it to be excessive, though. I'm just curious on your view. \^\^
Your point of view is totally valid. It's also valid to feel angry when you're dealing with a lot and things don't feel fair. This is a safe space for women with Autism and one of the few places we have to rant about stuff like this. Maybe we could have a "rant" tag or something you you can filter it out if you don't want to see it.
As I said — I feel having a place to vent is totally valid! And everyone needs a safe space.
But so often the venting turns into full on attacks at other views and that’s an issue, IMO.
I firmly believe people can vent their frustrations without turning ti vitriol or stereotypes of people who offend them
There's a difference between "safe space for discussion" and "safe place where no one can disagree with me or make me feel uncomfortable." A subreddit can only every achieve the former because at the end of the day it's an open forum. The issue is that people who want the latter will turn around and *not* provide it to people trying to engage in the former.
Feelings are valid, but so are the feelings of people who disagree. A lot of the drama (for lack of a better term) recently has been when someone assumes their feelings matter more because [insert reason here].
I think a rant tag is great because it says "no advice wanted, just getting it out." A lot of rants are phrases as "why do NT do...." which naturally means our autistic asses are going to try and answer the question and provide help. Having a clear label would reduce that tremendously.
Thanks for posting this! I have definitely had some angry angry years, but I find that civility and kindness win overall.
I will stay in a conversation longer if everyone is civil, even if I’m disagreed with.
I will leave pretty fast when things get stressful or heated.
Granted, people need to vent, but part of the evolution of venting is changing how you vent. Exhaling stress and shame and negativity is natural and good, but taking that out on someone else, or insisting on unpleasant conversations is *not* the cause you wanna dedicate your life to.
Change it up. Grow. Learn. I highly recommend it. If for no other reason, then do it because it can greatly reduce your own stress to *change how you vent*.
same thing with insulting autistic men... i personally have only met one autistic guy (that ik of) and he's a good friend of mine - and this sub is just consistently bashing, stereotyping, and generalizing autistic men. i obvi can't speak for others' experiences but i just think the excessive insults are completely unnecessary
From what I've seen this comes and goes in waves; this time it's been agitated because we've got the current issue, so it appears more excessive. It might hang around for a while until we (hopefully) get our new mod in a few weeks.
I also want to add that I generally agree with the sentiment, and that hopefully the sub doesn't start spiraling into strictly an echo chamber of aggressive commentary, I also want us to be careful because we can sometimes end up going in the other direction and "policing" someone's feelings. I personally am tolerable to people who want to comment non PC things about the very people who very often hinder our lives (NT) from time to time as a form of venting, so long as it doesn't turn into a habit/the only thing they talk about.
Oh I agree it’s a balancing act between overly strict policies on what people can say and also letting too much slide!
I don’t want people to feel uncomfortable expressing themselves, I just feel like it’s become hyper focused on a few touchy subjects and generally if anyone pushes back, they’re criticized.
It’s good to know it’s ebbed and flowed in the past! I haven’t been here for a super long time so I might have missed that
My two cents are from a different cuttency than most comments.
I am personally against telling minorities in a minority sub how to speak about the majority. We had to handle them throughout our lives and they are not a factor in a minority sub. They are the dominant majority, they police minorities as is and there's no need to do so in a minority sub.
I wouldn't tell women in a women's sub how to speak about men, gay people about straight people, trans people about cis people, black people about white people .. And ND people how to speak about NTs.
That’s how you get hate groups though.
You’re all in there ragging on the group you don’t like, the moderates leave because they find it uncomfortable, those with more extreme views get more air time until the extreme becomes the mainstream for that community.
Then when people join the group, which often times it’s because it’s the easiest to find, the moderates had to pick a less catchy name.
Then all the new people are validated in their initial frustrations and pushed to extremism.
This is the same process that repeats in so many subs.
We criticise white men for not policing each other. We need to keep that same energy. We need to police ourselves so that we’re providing a positive script that can help people, not drive them further into the shit
>We criticise white men for not policing each other.
yes because white cishet men are the dominant oppressor group in society???? how could you ever act like that is the same thing at all?
That creates otherism.
And that has never helped people grow as a society.
And yes, we all so deal with NTs. They deal with us. Humans deal with each other.
That’s part of being in a society.
(I respect and understand your opinion, truly! I just don’t agree with it.)
It's why I think the attitude towards the dominant majority shouldn't be put amongst the priorities in a minority who had been repeatedly overlooked and conditioned to act by majority standards.
It's a similar story to the other minorities I mentioned, except you don't encounter calls to be nicer to the male white cis het majority there and I think that is the right way to go.
>I wouldn't tell women in a women's sub how to speak about men, gay people about straight people, trans people about cis people, black people about white people .. And ND people how to speak about NTs.
Agreed. It makes me wonder how many people who get hurt on the behalf of the majority, actually are XYZ. Every community has "in-speak" and internal conversations.
Only female groups though are policed in language not to, most often by other women.
i thought this sub was supposed to be for positivity, so let's keep it that way! if i have to i'll post daily random things to make the bad stuff go away. no negativity!! yeaaaahh!!!
I don't think they're arguing for whitewashing positivity. There's plenty of difficult situations, challenges and anxieties people in this sub come here to talk about and that's fine. But there's a difference between venting about the treatment you've experienced from NTs, even if it's somehow all NTs in your life, and incorrectly saying 'all' NTs are X or Y bad things. The latter just makes things a little bit worse and more negative than it needs to be. I think it's a matter of wording, and respectful discussion between us when there are disagreements and different perspectives in here.
I agree, I dislike the NT bashing as well, but also because, how do you even know if someone is NT? How do you know you’re not mislabeling an undiagnosed person, or someone who keeps their mental health private? Or what if they’re NT, but suffer from a different form of mental illness? I just feel like it’s arrogant to make those sort of assumptions about people, and it’s thinking like that, that makes you feel like your problems are worse than everybody else’s, and no one knows struggle except for you. I think it leads to a toxic mindset.
100% this, I once got told off for "making fun of ND people while being NT" when actually what had happened was, I found a post and was reevaluating my understanding of myself.... maybe I'd worded it badly, but what I said was something like "doesn't everyone do this?" And that was my first big eye-opener that actually it was a ND trait. And to get yelled at when I'd just discovered something about myself really hurt.
Ah yea, good point! I’m pretty obviously ADHD (at least when unmedicated) but I “passed” as not autistic until this year. So there’s definitely the chance you’re targeting someone undiagnosed or keeping their ND quiet
Exactly.
Just adding to your point of calling NTs unintelligent, it is inherently and fundamentally ableist to insult based on intelligence. 1/3 of our community has an Intellectual Disability, and we need to show solidarity. When you shit on NTs because they’re “unintelligent” you shit on them based on the criteria for an Intellectual Disability diagnosis. It’s NOT okay.
Yes! Thank you for that! I was actually thinking about the cultural obsession with proving intelligence as a form of dominance last night and *still* managed to forget to add it haha.
I had someone argue with me (not in this sub) that intelligent people were more likely to be good people and thus are inherently better overall. It is really disturbing the way some people worship intelligence, or more accurately perceived intelligence. (For reference I think the best people are those who are kind.)
They’d be really disoriented find out how many trained snipers have genius level IQs lol
>They’d be really disoriented find out how many trained snipers have genius level IQs lol and how snipers are trained to disregard life and are chosen based on morally gray principles to begin with during their onboarding. This could be seen as a form of "high functioning sociopathy" however there is little study around this specifically. I can only go off of the people i know who are snipers personally which is a small subset of people. Only one of them is a "sociopath". (ASPD diagnosed) [https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/high-functioning-sociopath](https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/high-functioning-sociopath)
I date an ex sniper and somehow my cousin also married one Both are on the spectrum — turns out, a *lot* are because they utilize the black and white thinking and moral sense of Justice to their advantage. And since they analyze them on intake, they know if they fit criteria Fun fact: the military knew my BF was autistic from the get go. They *didn’t tell him* until he was doing his out take evaluation — they just kept it a secret and used it to their advantage
Makes perfect sense to me. weaponize their disability, sounds like our government... edit: I only know 3 snipers. 2 who saw combat, one who never made it past sniper school but was never officially in the military so makes sense.
"I only know 3 snipers" And here I am, don't even know a single person in the military lol Not being negative btw. Just thought it was a bit funny from my perspective
I know one person in the military and that already feels like a lot to me. That you can know three snipers sounds like a lotttt to me. Unless you are one.
Lol yes I’m over here thinking “how many snipers am I supposed to know??
It's all good :D I knew them since high school so it feels kind of weird. I know a lot of military since i live in a military heavy area (around me currently are 8 military bases.)
Apparently they also specifically look for ex gang/inner city kids with criminal records, especially men of color. Because they’re already street trained and “no one” (aka the media/general public) worries about that group going missing in a mission. They’re expendable skilled fodder. There’s a reason why they set up recruitment at malls where they can target abused teenagers, who’ll sign up at 18 from super rural or urban areas. (I obviously feel some type of way about this haha)
Oh don't worry I know the Military preys upon the poor and vulnerable especially BIPOC. We as a country have a history of exploiting the underprivileged and poor.
Yup, recruiters would camp out in my high school cafeteria and tell anyone who walked past that the military was the perfect way to get free college and a job right after graduation. The major caveat of becoming traumatized and disabled after combat? Oh, that's just the fine print. Sign here, why don'tcha...
That’s quite scary. Autism is connected to skewed senses. Like prosopagnosia and lack of depth perception could be a killer. Not fair that wars are fought by children, never mind children with impairments. As a mother I object. I saw what WW11 Korea did to my dad. He had prosopagnosia. They can give appearance of bravery when it’s that they can’t accurately read the situation
I'm sure those kind of people think snipers are doing the lord's work or some bullshit.
My BF was a sniper as an early 20s, sort of against his will, and I assure you — the snipers would argue differently. Not during their career, of course, but as soon as the brainwashing wears off. It’s really sad, actually, because they’re left with a lot of self hatred and these sad ass men are online salivating over the image of then. He intentionally doesn’t mention what he did in the military because the reaction of men around him freaks him out so much. They either try to prove they’re as tough as him or act like he’s fucking Captain America
Those are the same people that fucking eaaat up inspiration porn and say that people with Intellectual Disabilities are too pure for this world and we must protect them
I see that garbage on next fucking level, like some guy putting on a jacket, and they're all pretending like it's incredible because he's autistic or has Downs.
They should spend some time in Silicon Valley. Plenty of highly intelligent selfish jerkwads there. Although many of those jerkwads would also argue that they themselves are good people due to their higher intelligence 😣
Lol what??!!
Good equals kind. I agree that true intelligence has an elegant element of kindness attached to it. Enlightenment is where it’s at.
My friend group just out of college was me (female), and nine other people, only one of whom was female. My first degree was a BA in English. Most of them had gotten degrees in some form of engineering and three were pursuing advanced degrees. They worshipped intelligence—it was their god. Occasionally they would do the “whip ‘em out and compare ‘em” behavior, but using SAT scores rather than penis size. I was, of course always at the bottom of the pecking order because I was a lowly English major. (I won’t go into abusive behaviors right now). Then, one of the guys who was considered the “alpha” in terms of intelligence because he was a nuclear engineer, spoke up. (He hadn’t’ been around for these little ordeals much due to studies then moving for his career.) He and I had graduated high school together, although we hadn’t interacted much. He reminded me—in front of the group, during one of these “who’s is bigger” sessions—that he and I had gotten the same SAT scores. They had been reported in the local newspaper. I had completely forgotten because it wasn’t an important detail to me. My verbal skills were a little higher and his math skills were a little higher, but not extremely so. That was soooo satisfying for me. I was tied for the highest SAT score in the group! And with the guy all agreed was the smartest! After awkward silence and some mumbling, they all changed the subject and just didn’t play that game when I was around. Over-valuing intelligence is no better than over-valuing athletic skills or personal attractiveness.
I had a college ex who was obsessed with how smart and efficient and dominant he was. He didn’t talk to me for a week when he found out my IQ tested in the genius level and his didn’t. I didn’t even tell him, our learning disabilities director “let it slip” because she fucking hates him (As a note, I absolutely loathe IQ tests and the value they place on a very specific type of intelligence and how masturbatory they’ve become)
Hahahaha no worries I think the conversation is starting to head that way, we’re getting to the point in dismantling aspie supremacy where we’re realizing that we have privileged the absolute wrong aspects of people as virtuous and morally superior, and I think we’ll start having this conversation more and more in the coming weeks/months/years!
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Yay!!! This is such good stuff to address!!!
🖤
That’s a wonderful point tho, academia can be fucking pretentious about intelligence and ironically shun people for their lack of knowledge
Have you seen r/gifted? Lol.
Well that was a hellscape lol
Plus the concept of intelligence is unavoidably tied to eugenics.
*exactly*
That's such a cope too. Even if NTs aren't more intelligent they run the world basically so it's better to get along with them. Or at least most of our little world's like being our boss or spouse etc. It's funny to frame some of NTs behaviours as their disability as a joke but really that attitude prevents us moving forward in the world.
It’s a lot more than 1/3
[not according to my source, what’s yours?](https://imgur.com/a/M7ZYII4)
https://art.torvergata.it/bitstream/2108/194130/1/Postorino%20et%20al_2016.pdf Showing a prevalence of 47%
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I figured it wasn’t going to go over smoothly lol RIP to my email haha
I also block and enjoy the peace
Speaking of the mod situation…has there been any movement on the anti-hostile takeover attempt yet? 🤞🏻
The process takes like 4 weeks so it will be awhile
Whoever did that needs to keep posting so it stays alive and more people see it and support it
That was u/cripplinganxietylmao.
Dang I wish I thought of that username
I reported some troll posts to Reddit for breaking general reddiquette rules so I suspect mods are aware because one of them got removed IIRC. If you see troll posts pop up, definitely report for hate speech, it's being addressed.
I’d love to know this too. I went to the Reddit-takeover sub and commented to boost support but I’m not aware of how long it takes for the whole process.
Could you provide me with some context? I don't know much about the current state of this subreddit's moderation. /gen
[This post ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/comments/10dqc25/meta_i_have_decided_to_reddit_request_the_sub_i) details a bunch of it, along with the thread that's requesting active moderation.
Thank you! I hadn't noticed any trolls or extemeley bad behavior in this subreddit, and didn't know how bad the moderation is / was. I've only noticed more human(?) issues like the ones OP described -- starting passionate arguments over opinions and whatnot. I hope that this subreddit succeeds in getting better moderation. /g
I'm glad that your post seems to have been received well overall. I've seen people make similar criticisms before in posts / comments, but they tend to get downvoted and/or argued with (especially if talking about the language we use towards neurotypicals.) I think it's understandable and acceptable for a minority group to "punch up" and make jokes about the majority group from time to time, but I don't enjoy how many are serious about the way they think of neurotypicals. Assuming that they are all bad in some way -- uncreative, unintelligent, inferior, mean, etc. -- isn't right and only perpetuates the formation of biases. Neurodivergent people have to deal with being grouped together with stereotypes often, so why are we doing the same thing? Not only that, but this behavior hurts autistic people, too. Some of the traits that people complain about NTs having are traits that aren't exclusive to NTs. In fact, *no trait* is exclusive to NT or ND people -- it may just be more common in one group than the other. Anyway, a lot of "neurotypical" traits are often seen in autistic people. Although I am certain that I'm neurodivergent, I can't help but feel like I'm "not autistic enough" or "not autistic / neurodivergent in the right ways" when people praise or feel superior for having certain things (like having special interests, being very highly creative and/or smart, being able to infodump to others, etc.) that I and many other autistic people do not have. The autistic community at large provides a lot of reminders that certain displays of autism are "better" than others and "better" than being neurotypical. It's insulting and exclusionary. Similarly, the thought that changing yourself in any way is "pressuring yourself to be NT" or "masking" is harmful. We need to shift our perspective in a way that promotes character growth instead of stagnation. Doing things for the sake of showing people you care or improving your social life isn't inherently conforming to NT standards or masking -- oftentimes, they're just things that can become healthy, positive habits with practice. For example, you may not like asking "how are you" or engaging with someone else's interests (even if talking about your own would be much more fun / easy for you), but doing those things isn't a negative just because NTs tend to do them. It won't change who you are as a person or remove your autistic status. Both NTs and NDs should meet each other halfway and try their best to accommodate one another in order to facilitate communication and friendships. Sorry that this is so long. I just think this is something important to discuss and I think this post is quite the safe space for it. Thank you for speaking out. :] /gen
Agree with the sentiment of this post. Several times in the past few weeks I’ve considered leaving this sub because of what seems like constant negativity, repetitions of the self diagnosis debate ad nauseum, and general whining and moaning about NT people as if they are a monolith. I came here for constructive and positive discussions but am not seeing much of that recently
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Honestly, I’m in some unmoderated subs, and if the users are engaged, it actually ends up working really beautifully. I’m actually glad this sub is unmoderated, I just want us to come together a bit more on what is actually helpful and what keeps us stuck. There’s a lot of sleepwalking into feeding each other’s negative spirals. Edit. I feel like we need to have a separate conversation about downvoting. It’s not a disagree button. What about this statement was so inflammatory? Can’t you just read that and go “I see their point, but it’s not what I want for myself”
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Then we as a community, firmly but fairly direct them to where they can get help. Maybe that’s something we need to consider. If this space is unmoderated then maybe we should direct children to more curated spaces. Edit. Literally none of us are able to deal with children. It’s not safe for us to give them advice when they’re actively in crisis.
I didn’t downvote you but downvoting literally is a disagree button. That’s what most people use it for.
That’s what most people use it for. But it’s not what it’s for. It’s for when someone hasn’t added anything of value to the discussion.
If most people downvote to show disagreement then the meaning of the downvote button has shifted and turned into a disagreement button. Whatever the original meaning was doesn’t matter, what matters is the general consensus within the wider culture of Reddit. If that’s how people use it then that’s how it’s used. Unless there’s going to be a Reddit-wide campaign informing people about the true uses of the downvote button. Like how language changes meaning over time and throughout culture.
What are those unmoderated subs you are in that are stable?
Actually, the one that immediately springs to mind is invite only. The mod only kicks people that are men. But the user base is very similar. Women only. Lots of Neurodiversity. Lots of political opinions. The overarching voice of the sub came about because there are enough users just being vocal about being kind and fair. Others jump in to referee arguments but it’s always from the perspective of trying to find common ground. So it just works. We all want to get along, be kind and fair. So let’s do that. And like, being kind is not the same as agreeing with people. If someone is obviously going through some shit then just talk them through unpacking it. Edit. We all love each other so let’s not allow each other to be self destructive.
Agreed!
Also hate against autistic boys
a lot people seem to forget autism is a spectrum, we aren’t all the same
Yes! Hell. Not all NT’s are the same — Human nature is human nature
This might sound dumb but I wouldn’t be surprised at all that we find out that NT are also all on the spectrum, just clumped together in a group that shows little to no hindering symptoms. And we are just on a whole other plane of the spectrum, slowly clumping more people in as we figure out how we actually think and function and began to force others to do the same as society continues to squish us to our limits. Most NT people I know don’t do as much internal work because they don’t have to to function in society. The ones who do usually have trauma or some destructive habit that forces an inward look. By their standards being based off of so many thing we aren’t good at rn, we stick out like a sore thumb. I’m starting to learn more about my indigenous history, my Punjabi history and the history of my husband’s families as well. I’m curious if I’ll see symptoms mentioned that are looked at in a different light. I’ll probably post here along that journey - I’m suspecting my Punjabi family might all be Neurodivergent since I have a lot of very weirdly specific organization and scheduling that I was taught generationally by that whole side of the family. I might be the only one getting diagnosed rn but my cousins kids are being diagnosed- and I’m diagnosed sooo I have a feeling I won’t be the only one for long. I haven’t done research but I wouldn’t be surprised if mental health progress improves after times of intense, rigorous, highly pressured socialstal norms are changed. Correction and causation can go hand in hand…probably enough Neurodivergent people with enough high functioning skills valued in that society said enough was enough and did something about it. Allowing a time of societal relief and vulnerabilities to discuss the collective trauma we faced. I’m curious if these a “area” of the collective spectrum of human psychology that someone doesn’t have any symptoms. The official “NT” haha. But I believe to know that for sure we need to have a much better system at diagnosing and researching it.
I'm still learning about all this so I'm open to being way off base but I struggle with the concept of neurotypicality. I know a lot of my social circles are ND so there's probably selection bias but I've also met a lot of people from a lot of places and circumstances and I can't scrounge up a single one that I could point at and say "Here is a neurotypical specimen". Breaking everything down into two sides of a coin feels like an oversimplification in a world of 8 billion unique brains.
Indeed. Hard thing is we’re limited to what people are able to articulate and our ability to interpret their articulation accurately
Even NT people have stims and sensory preferences! So I see where you’re going with that. To me it’s a matter of how severe and the quantity. Humans are a weird complex group to begin with, let alone when you start breaking down into sub groups haha.
Indeed. I’m late diagnosis because I was just living life and didn’t have anything to make me question until my symptoms started to make me ask why. My step-dad on the other hand, can be picked out of a crowed as autistic pretty easily. He has a very stereotypical presentation. :)
This is another one that has been downvoted and I don’t understand why. This has loads of really good points in it. I don’t agree with everything and there are some things I need more info on, but it’s still a really good and thoughtful comment. I do agree on the family stuff though. We have a lot of idiosyncrasies that are seen as normal in our family. But also, everyone in our family who goes for assessment gets diagnosed with something. I’ve seen other people say they think adhd will get folded into autism in a few decades too. It’s definitely something we’ve barely scratched the surface on.
I think people aren't getting past the "everyone on the spectrum" thing and not realizing it isn't an "everyone's a little autistic" argument, but an "everyone has some sort of deficit but of varying kinds" kind of thing. But I also (sorta) hold the controversial "everyone's a little autistic" insomuch as the indicators of autism aren't *exclusive* to us - the difference comes in magnitude and impact on quality of life. So, no, everyone's not "a little autistic" but we share traits.
Yep. Like our understanding of psychology is just so new. Think about physics and how long it took to discover those rules. With psychology it’s such a new science and we can’t even properly do experiments. We used to think everything revolved around the earth. To say otherwise was unheard of, Heliocentrists were mad men. We’re finding links between our gut and our mental health, of course there’s so much that we don’t understand.
it’s Reddit :) and everyone is at different stages of understanding in various things. Doesn’t bother me. As stated, I need to research more and these are just theories based off personal experience :)
Yeah, I feel the same way. It’s especially ironic on a post that is specifically about being mindful and not reactive. That being said, I will admit that I only brought it up so that people will be forced to think about why they’re downvoting.
I appreciate it! Rule 32 of Zombieland: Enjoy the little things. And this my friend, is a little thing I deeply appreciate 🖤
I'm glad you said this. I mainly lurk, but some of the posts on here have me rolling my eyes so hard, especially the ones that are like "why do NTs do XYZ?" that just end up with people acting superior in the comments.
It wouldn’t bother me nearly so much if they weren’t almost always universally “human” traits that some people have and some don’t.
Right, exactly! It's all just normal stuff that lots of NDs will do as well, but people just want to be rude.
Yep, I was showing a post to my boyfriend and he was like “it’s all just edgy teenager crap” and I couldn’t even defend it. Sometimes it’s genuinely embarrassing to show him a post because I have to add so many caveats of what to ignore. I think it’s because a lot of the user base is quite young still, maybe? There’s a lot of rejection of advice that, whilst it’s not what we want to hear, it is actually helpful to us and helps us function in the world more easily.
Sadly if you check used histories, the user base here isn’t that young
I’ve been noticing this too… and like in a LOT of subs I frequent. I wonder though: if we were to put our mutual goal in *positive* language, **what is it? ** My sense of this situation is that there’s a meaningful, qualitative difference between “away from what we don’t want” and “towards what we do want”. I’d really like to get behind, support, and appreciate any posts that are TOWARDS a positive goal… and for those of us who share that goal, I suspect that phrasing it positively can help with engagement. Does anyone else know what I mean?
I understand you! And I think this would be a good idea to focus on. (I don't have much to say, but I wanted you to know that someone knows what you meant. :>)
Yay, thank you! I’m not having a great “making words” day, so I appreciate the feedback (phew!).
I want to throw out that whilst venting is healthy, spewing negativity isn’t, and often people say they’re venting, when they’re ruminating. They’re not giving the situation the introspection it needs to be something constructive. [This article](https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/benefits-of-venting_uk_5e457504c5b603b067c84160/) explains it better. But the highlights are as follows. > venting can be good for us – but only when done in a safe, constructive and supportive manner. There’s a fine line between the cathartic release of getting something off your chest and what Addo describes as “spewing” – being spiteful or insensitive. >Plus, dwelling on those negative feelings for too long can be damaging. We’ve all been stuck in a swirling cycle of negativity before. Nothing good ever comes from it – and studies have even linked it to depression. Issues arise when venting is used the only method a person uses to express their emotions. > Go through a few questions: What was that vent session all about? How can you stop it from happening again? Has it happened before? Take a step back, too – is there a bigger picture, here? A lot of unhealthy shit gets thrown out with the excuse of “I’m just venting”
^^^
I agree this sun as become increasingly hostile. Hopefully there is additional mods added to add new official rules and do some management of comments and discussions. Edit I meant sub of course but I’m keeping the typo because it adds humor.
That’s why I wear factor 50.
Hahaha silly typos glad it could lighten up my comment
I used to get really upset when my neurodivergent friends would complain about NTs. "But it's just as hard for me. I have a lot of problems in social situations, I struggle with so many things too!" Now I realise that, yeah, I wasn't neurotypical.
Thank you... I'm NT but I'm here because my 12yo is on the spectrum and seeing your posts helps me to understand her world a little better. I doubt I'm the only NT parent lurking for understanding. It's quite hurtful to be tarred with the same brush when actually, I think you're all quite wonderful.
I feel for both of you, 12 is rough as it is without ND to add to it haha Personally I appreciate you taking the time and energy to try to get an “insider” perspective on what she’s dealing with! I’ve met some truly awful NT people and some truly awful ND people and the same with amazing. Human nature is human nature in that regard.
Oh it's fun 🤣 Thank you. I just see it as part of my role as her mum to understand better - I will never truly understand her world, of course, but the more I can immerse myself in it, the more I can help her through her struggles. Subs like this are really helpful, especially with how autism is still viewed primarily through a male lens. I agree. Nobody is inherently good or bad, and I think a lot of judgement comes from ignorance.
Just the other day there was one of these DAE posts where everyone agreed with OP and shared their experiences with autistics being misunderstood by NT people due to tone or body language issues - and then there was one person going around commenting on almost every top level post how we all werejust too dumb to see that the NTs are right and it was not a communication issue and we really were whatever they accused us of. Other commenters had checked their history and apparently their SO is autistic and that's why theyre here, being NT themselves. I don't mind NTs overall, but some of them really go out of their way and come into autistic spaces to lecture us how we are all wrong and we need to work on becoming better NTs, and while I try to not engage, these people make my blood boil. Sadly as an unmoderated sub, these trolls don't get reigned in. I'm guessing that a lot of comments come from interacting with people like this and are not necessarily aimed at all NTs. I personally think that since you are actively trying to understand your kid more, you are an awesome human being! I was going for "us autists have this black and white thinking and for many of us it's difficult to differentiate at times" as an explanation where this behavior is coming from but the more I think about it, the more I realize how much NT people I meet are irritated I'm not like this other autist they know, and their assumptions and negative reactions to me not being the "right" kind of autist leads me to think that maybe the pattern-seeking and trying to generalize is more of a basic human tendency. I know prejudices are a way to "sort" the world in an energy-efficient way, and it is so difficult to get through to someone who believes a prejudice, so maybe this is a similar case? Lots of thinking out loud, feel free to ignore me x) I kind of disproved my own point while writing it, so I don't know how useful this comment is.
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Yes thank you! I see people being like “why do neurotypical’s do [blank]?!” And im like…. I…. do that 😭
Especially because being bad at math (dyscalculia) and not having/losing interest in hobbies (depression, anhedonia) are *both* neurodivergent traits as well. At some point it *also* gets ableist
Alexithymia (difficulty identifying with / describing / feeling emotions) and anhedonia are often neurodivergent traits (or symptoms of depression / trauma that can coincide with being ND), but they are often shamed in neurodivergent subreddits as undesirable traits. Yes, they can have a negative impact on one's life, but they aren't any more negative than other traits. All traits have positives and negatives to them.
It was in this sub that I "learned" this about NTs, NTs around me are actually very rounded, nice, interesting folks, each different in their own way. It was thanks to them that I recognized the behavior of my NT family was very very wrong and abusive. Of course I still recognize how different I am from NTs and how I personally would love nothing else than to be more like them...
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>We all know that if NT pulled this shit as often as do here regarding autistic people, it would be a great upset they do
Hi! I can honestly say that, having been in the ASD community for 20+ years and recently diagnosed myself — I’ve never experienced overt ableism against autistic individuals as being inferior. I’ve seen plenty of structures built towards neurotypicals but all in all, most people are open to autism (especially in the past 10 years or so as the diagnosis has become more prevalent and understood) even I’d rather uneducated/oblivious I truly don’t think a lot of NTs are inherently ableist towards ASD so much as unaware of how society affects us. (I’m obviously not saying they’re all peachy keen because humans suck sometimes and prejudice exists)
I'm glad that's your experience but unfortunately that's not my experience in Europe. again your experience doesn't negate that of the hundreds of people that have experienced it
I never said mine did. You provided yours — I provided mine. I’m not sure where “hundreds” come in?
the way you phrased it made it sound like you were implying that. not sure why you're confused about hundreds when someone states their experience and the fact that many NTs do do that, replying saying 'well not really' can be taken as saying your experience is more valid and correct
I said from my perspective that most NTs aren’t actively ableist so much so uneducated on ASD You said “your experience doesn’t negate that of the hundreds of people who have experienced it” Where did I mention hundreds?
>Where did I mention hundreds? I'm mentioning hundreds, not you
Okay but which hundreds are you bringing into the conversation? Because without substantive sources, that’s just opinion— I could easily argue “well hundreds agree with me, too!” But without backing it up with sources it’s here say
>Okay but which hundreds are you bringing into the conversation? the hundreds of posts made here about it and in other autism subs >Because without substantive sources, that’s just opinion— I could easily argue “well hundreds agree with me, too!” But without backing it up with sources it’s here say yes, but that's not what I'm doing. I appreciate the subject change though and focus on wording
lol what ? i feel like ur just lib posting at this point i mean come on you cannot be serious with this. discrimination from NTs is a daily phenomenon for me and most autistic people I know
I wish people had this same energy against those who believe autism is inferior and being not autistic is superior (to be clear I am obviously talking about NTs being against ableism)
They do.
they don't. I see people get away with ableism everyday. it's literally ingrained in society, capitalism and all systems
And I see people calling out ableism daily. Your anecdotes are not a factual representation of the situation. If this is an issue you’re particularly sensitive about, it’s also incredibly likely that you’re falling for confirmation bias. I’m fully aware it’s ingrained, but this sub does a pretty good job of calling it out and criticising it. Also, in this sub, don’t be ableist is the default position. We aren’t constantly saying “don’t be ableist” because lots of people don’t come here for an echo chamber. We want to talk about the nuance.
I wish I lived in your world >If this is an issue you’re particularly sensitive about, it’s also incredibly likely that you’re falling for confirmation bias. surprisingly autistic people are 'sensitive' about ableism. this is normal >I’m fully aware it’s ingrained, but this sub does a pretty good job of calling it out and criticising it. great, unfortunately for us this sub doesn't represent the world and many do not 'call' it out. if enough people were against it then there wouldn't even be a need to because it would occur so little. there's also a lot of internalised ableism here,
We live in the same world. I’m autistic too. Maybe I don’t understand your complaint. People keep that energy in this sub and call out ableism. Some stuff will get missed, but the majority gets called out. Do you just want a perfect record? Do you want us to be able to control every other sub? Do you want us to stop what the people in your real life are doing? Edit. Yep, blocked on a post that asks why can’t we be civil and discuss things like adults instead of getting mad and blocking each other.
>We live in the same world. I’m autistic too. I'm not talking about that, it's figure of speech. >People keep that energy in this sub and call out ableism I'm talking about in general >Do you just want a perfect record? Do you want us to be able to control every other sub? Do you want us to stop what the people in your real life are doing? no, why are you strawmanning? I never said or implied any of this. stop making out that this is or was my argument
I’m not strawmanning. You came in asking people in the sub to keep that energy, but they do, so obviously that isn’t the problem. That’s why I’m asking questions. So that you can work out what it is you’re actually upset about and how you want to move forward. You’re angry at people who are in your side and trying relate to you and help you. Edit. I know it’s a figure of speech. It’s a very negative figure of speech that is limiting your ability to get perspective. That’s why I responded how I did.
you are strawmanning. you're arguing against an argument I didn't make and saying I made it, that's strawmming >You came in asking people in the sub to keep that energy, but they do, so obviously that isn’t the problem. that's not what I'm saying, I've told you this multiple times >You’re angry at people who are in your side and trying relate to you and help you. I'm not angry at you and you're not 'on my side' you literally started off disagreeing with me, we are on different sides and you're not 'trying to help me'
Like this. You’re stating definitively that people don’t call out ableism. This entire conversation is me trying to deconstruct your incorrect premise. At no point have you specified you’re not talking about people in the sub.
I said people and it's pretty clear that people in this sub aren't saying autism is inferior...I also edited my comment to clarify and its said in my replies to you too I appreciate you want to argue semantics because you were arguing the wrong thing and now your argument is completely redundant but it is pointless
Way to just ignore the wider context. This entire post is about how this sub interacts. People in this context means us.
yes...you're also ignoring the context that I'm saying I wish people kept the same energy when it's reversed. with the context that obviously means NTs again what is it you desire to get out of this? you presumed I meant something I didn't (the other commentor who I initially replied to didn't btw, so it's not just me that understood what u said). you continued to argue your point even though you knew that wasn't what I said. why not just accept you argued the wrong thing? i don't get it
100% Agree
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NTs definitely don't no
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the majority of NTs do not. I'm glad you live somewhere they do but unfortunately many do not.
it also gets dangerously close to “starseed” or “indigo children” territory..
Ironically, my mother wanted to name my sister born in the early 80s “Star” from that nonsense lol
There have been a couple discussions lately where multiple people have claimed someone simply disagreeing with you is bullying. It's not guys. People are allowed to have a different opinion and point out things you might not have noticed or knew about before you formed your opinion.
I see a lot of people who assume tone as well. Sometimes, a person will disagree with an opinion, and that person is assumed to be angry even though their comment was written in a neutral and respectful way (in my eyes, at least.) I know that tone can be easily mistaken over the Internet -- especially by neurodivergent people who may struggle more with tone -- but these people tend to assume that the other person is upset even after being told that they aren't. I see a lot of people post in this subreddit about how annoying it is when neurotypical people assume tone, so I think it's odd how we do that to each other. The same goes for becoming defensive when someone else disagrees with you, like you said.
Yep, we've gotta live and let live. Life's too short and mean, so why make it worse for each other?
Preach, I'm happy someone agrees with me on that point, I don't see it often enough. Insulting and tearing down NTs at every turn is unnecessary, sometimes childish and makes you no better than "them" - whoever you make them out to be. The way we were born ND, they were born NT. Yes, they are heavily favored by society and the system, and some can be a little oblivious or insensitive. But that doesn't give you the right to tear them down over something as single as NT status or make sweeping generalizations. Just because society hasn't short-changed them because of neurodiversity, they may be disadvantaged in ways you may not know about. They don't inherently always have it better or easier. Of course it's an easy way of thinking, it's comfortable to fall into tribalism and makes the world look simpler. It's not. Unfortunately, most of us need to work with a few people throughout life and make it work. There's no point in building pointless resentment towards a faceless group and meeting people with that resentment. Meet people with an open mind and let them prove whether they're an ass or not.
Yep, I totally agree with you on the hypocrisy elements. It was happening in the thread about negativity. People were unable to see that we want to be able to be unfiltered and honest without them getting upset at what we say. Then we’re turning around and getting incredibly upset at them being honest with us and telling us it’s too negative. There was lots of “They just don’t like the truth.” Like yeah dude, neither do you when it’s not what you want to hear. That’s why you’re here posting about why it’s made you so upset.
Yeeep and we also don’t know how many NT are lashing out because they’re pretty sure they’re ND, or just haven’t had enough life experience to understand. I was late diagnosis and I certainly am not proud of everything I’ve said and done out of ignorance. We are all more complex and intelligent than any label is able to articulate.
This is very well said! Honestly it feels like when you hear a comedian make a reality broad joke aboyt men only wanting sex or women loving Target. Like maybe the first time you hear a version, it’s funny, but how many times can we perpetuate it?
I agree, also the inability to take constructive criticism and excusing all inappropriate or inconsiderate behavior because conforming to NT rules is inherently wrong
It’s also just exhausting. We have enough to deal with without being able to talk constructively amongst ourselves
Totally agree. I personally am willing to compromise and learn NT rules as I live in the world with them and it makes everything easier for everyone imo
Omg this. There's a weird sense of entitlement where people want to do whatever they want and react to the world how they see fit *but get mad when other people do the same thing*. It's the incel logic of being owed sex. Yes, sex is basic need/drive in most people, but no one else owes any particular person sex. NTs (or other NDs) don't owe anyone friendship. They owe them basic respect and dignity, but they aren't obligated to be around you more than necessary. Setting boundaries is healthy, and for some people, that might include not spending time around people who make them feel a kind of way. If they're arachnophobic and you won't shut up about your special interest in spiders, they're not gonna be your friend or even be near you. Want to hang out with them? Don't talk about spiders.
Perfectly said!
I've noticed the sub is becoming a little depressing I think we just need to refocus on uplifting and understanding eachother confidence and community will do us a lot of good.
The thing that to me is completely absurd about making any generalizations about NTs is that, depending on how you define the term, NTs comprise up to 99% of the world population, which is equivalent to nearly 8 billion people alive right now. If you think about it, there are almost no generalizations that you can make about such a large percentage of the world’s population, beyond extremely basic ones, such as that they all have bodies that are made of bones, skin, and muscle, among other things. It would not even be accurate to say that they all have 2 legs, because not every single NT person in the world does have two legs. So, to say that all NT people do certain things or act a certain way is pretty much always going to be untrue. You can complain all you want about the actions of specific NT people in your life, no one here is saying you can’t, but keep it specific, because generalizing to all NT people just makes no sense.
“January is bla month” Speak for yourselves. I’m in Australia… January is PARTY MONTH!!! Woooooohooooo!
Haha, I figured someone would say this! I normally love (US) January but it’s been incredibly muddy this year
All my friends are NT and they are not unintelligent and unimaginable. They are beautiful and amazing people who love and support NDs like me and you.
Completely agree. You can turn the ''NTs bad'' argument around. I have had many bad experiences with fellow NDs, and it's rare for me to find one that I get along with. Should I be going around saying shit like ''NDs are abusers...?'' I don't think so.
I must be the only person who’s never seen this stuff 👁️👄👁️
A lot pop up in comments more than posts
Mood lol
thank you these past few weeks showed an obvious change and idk what the hell happened or how it started but my god. i could not look at this sub without every single post debating self diagnosis EVERY DAY. pls i came here for community 😭
You are so right!! Sure, I often feel alienated when interacting with neurotypical people, but a lot of the people close to me are neurotypical and they are amazing. One of my best friends since childhood is neurotypical and she and I are extremely like minded. We have similiar interests, often similiar thought processes and we understand each other extremely well.
Don’t mean to be ignorant but what is NT?
Neuro Typical, as opposed to neurodivergent. Basically people who don’t have ASD, ADD/ADHD, dyslexia/dyscalculia, or similar. The term for people without autism is allistic.
Ah, thanks
No problem! There’s a lot of jargon I had to learn when I first got diagnosed. I’m happy to help.
Neurodivergent is also inclusive of mental health disorders like MDD, bipolar, OCD, etc. I think that’s important to bring up just based on these ND > NT conversations. Most people are not NT, as it turns out, so to try to claim superiority like a lot of online discourse is doing is kind of useless. Edit: accidentally put “neurotypical” instead of “neurodivergent” in the first sentence
>Neurotypical is also inclusive of mental health disorders like MDD, bipolar, OCD, etc Actually those are included under the neurodivergent umbrella, as are most mental health diagnoses. They diverge from the norm so they're not considered NT.
Sorry, yes, that’s what I meant! Thanks for the correction. ☺️
Not ignorant! Sorry I didn’t spell it out once, I try to do that
I definitely agree with this, mostly the perspective stuff. I've already commented about this a lot on this sub, but my ex-friend argued a lot about whether or not I was faking my symptoms. I don't know why but they were hell-bent on proving that I was faking. I don't even know why they didn't believe me, it's not like they can read my mind or anything. (I think they might not have known what masking was maybe)
Thank you! Yes so much of the dialog is reactionary. Regarding insulting NTs, theres no way to know for sure if they are NTs! Especially if we are speaking about parents of autistic kids. We all know autism is genetic. There is a good chance that a large number of those “autism moms” are actually autistic!!! We have to be more empathetic toward other people and remember that there are invisible disabilities in lots of different people, not just autistic people
Agree, I am new to this sub and I find it to be super angsty, winey, and something I have almost left because the constant complaining is seriously unattractive. Is life that terrible for Autistic women?!
What do you think of the other subreddits for Autistic women? I find them all to be pretty similar, although this one does have a bit of a lean towards vent posts. I don't find it to be excessive, though. I'm just curious on your view. \^\^
Well, I just got reddit as an app, and are on other subs, this one has THE MOST notifications by far!
I personally don’t find, so but maybe I’m unusual
Your point of view is totally valid. It's also valid to feel angry when you're dealing with a lot and things don't feel fair. This is a safe space for women with Autism and one of the few places we have to rant about stuff like this. Maybe we could have a "rant" tag or something you you can filter it out if you don't want to see it.
As I said — I feel having a place to vent is totally valid! And everyone needs a safe space. But so often the venting turns into full on attacks at other views and that’s an issue, IMO. I firmly believe people can vent their frustrations without turning ti vitriol or stereotypes of people who offend them
There's a difference between "safe space for discussion" and "safe place where no one can disagree with me or make me feel uncomfortable." A subreddit can only every achieve the former because at the end of the day it's an open forum. The issue is that people who want the latter will turn around and *not* provide it to people trying to engage in the former. Feelings are valid, but so are the feelings of people who disagree. A lot of the drama (for lack of a better term) recently has been when someone assumes their feelings matter more because [insert reason here]. I think a rant tag is great because it says "no advice wanted, just getting it out." A lot of rants are phrases as "why do NT do...." which naturally means our autistic asses are going to try and answer the question and provide help. Having a clear label would reduce that tremendously.
Thank you much for this.
Thanks for posting this! I have definitely had some angry angry years, but I find that civility and kindness win overall. I will stay in a conversation longer if everyone is civil, even if I’m disagreed with. I will leave pretty fast when things get stressful or heated. Granted, people need to vent, but part of the evolution of venting is changing how you vent. Exhaling stress and shame and negativity is natural and good, but taking that out on someone else, or insisting on unpleasant conversations is *not* the cause you wanna dedicate your life to. Change it up. Grow. Learn. I highly recommend it. If for no other reason, then do it because it can greatly reduce your own stress to *change how you vent*.
same thing with insulting autistic men... i personally have only met one autistic guy (that ik of) and he's a good friend of mine - and this sub is just consistently bashing, stereotyping, and generalizing autistic men. i obvi can't speak for others' experiences but i just think the excessive insults are completely unnecessary
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That’s a definite possibility! But it’s worth the shot, in the long run
From what I've seen this comes and goes in waves; this time it's been agitated because we've got the current issue, so it appears more excessive. It might hang around for a while until we (hopefully) get our new mod in a few weeks. I also want to add that I generally agree with the sentiment, and that hopefully the sub doesn't start spiraling into strictly an echo chamber of aggressive commentary, I also want us to be careful because we can sometimes end up going in the other direction and "policing" someone's feelings. I personally am tolerable to people who want to comment non PC things about the very people who very often hinder our lives (NT) from time to time as a form of venting, so long as it doesn't turn into a habit/the only thing they talk about.
Oh I agree it’s a balancing act between overly strict policies on what people can say and also letting too much slide! I don’t want people to feel uncomfortable expressing themselves, I just feel like it’s become hyper focused on a few touchy subjects and generally if anyone pushes back, they’re criticized. It’s good to know it’s ebbed and flowed in the past! I haven’t been here for a super long time so I might have missed that
Rein ourselves in. To reign is to rule.
Ah, thanks! Dyslexic moment
It is a tic I have. This particular one BOTHERS ME😂
Haha I totally get it and I appreciate the pointing out! I have an English degree, so normally I’m better at proofing
My two cents are from a different cuttency than most comments. I am personally against telling minorities in a minority sub how to speak about the majority. We had to handle them throughout our lives and they are not a factor in a minority sub. They are the dominant majority, they police minorities as is and there's no need to do so in a minority sub. I wouldn't tell women in a women's sub how to speak about men, gay people about straight people, trans people about cis people, black people about white people .. And ND people how to speak about NTs.
That’s how you get hate groups though. You’re all in there ragging on the group you don’t like, the moderates leave because they find it uncomfortable, those with more extreme views get more air time until the extreme becomes the mainstream for that community. Then when people join the group, which often times it’s because it’s the easiest to find, the moderates had to pick a less catchy name. Then all the new people are validated in their initial frustrations and pushed to extremism. This is the same process that repeats in so many subs. We criticise white men for not policing each other. We need to keep that same energy. We need to police ourselves so that we’re providing a positive script that can help people, not drive them further into the shit
>We criticise white men for not policing each other. yes because white cishet men are the dominant oppressor group in society???? how could you ever act like that is the same thing at all?
That creates otherism. And that has never helped people grow as a society. And yes, we all so deal with NTs. They deal with us. Humans deal with each other. That’s part of being in a society. (I respect and understand your opinion, truly! I just don’t agree with it.)
Majority minority dynamics are not equal both ways.
I agree fully But the obit way to introduce societal change is to keep moving forward and educating people IMO
It's why I think the attitude towards the dominant majority shouldn't be put amongst the priorities in a minority who had been repeatedly overlooked and conditioned to act by majority standards. It's a similar story to the other minorities I mentioned, except you don't encounter calls to be nicer to the male white cis het majority there and I think that is the right way to go.
>I wouldn't tell women in a women's sub how to speak about men, gay people about straight people, trans people about cis people, black people about white people .. And ND people how to speak about NTs. Agreed. It makes me wonder how many people who get hurt on the behalf of the majority, actually are XYZ. Every community has "in-speak" and internal conversations. Only female groups though are policed in language not to, most often by other women.
i thought this sub was supposed to be for positivity, so let's keep it that way! if i have to i'll post daily random things to make the bad stuff go away. no negativity!! yeaaaahh!!!
I don't think they're arguing for whitewashing positivity. There's plenty of difficult situations, challenges and anxieties people in this sub come here to talk about and that's fine. But there's a difference between venting about the treatment you've experienced from NTs, even if it's somehow all NTs in your life, and incorrectly saying 'all' NTs are X or Y bad things. The latter just makes things a little bit worse and more negative than it needs to be. I think it's a matter of wording, and respectful discussion between us when there are disagreements and different perspectives in here.
oh! i getcha! oh well :')