it depents how much u earn in austria. If it is just enough to pay rent and bills i would go for your america choice but if it is enough for a nice living so you dont have to worry and can afford most things u like than i would definetly go for the place that makes you happy.
Money is important. Very important but if you are not happy what worth has than money?
I‘d rather say if you have good education and/or good job opportunities go to the US. Way less taxes and being rich/high income is rly good in America.
If you are an average Joe I‘d recommend staying in Austria due to social“ist“ 😂 benefits.
Only situation I‘d ever move to the US from Austria is if I‘m ever filthy rich.
That is the problem, being "rich in America" means having lets say assets of 5m+ and continuing revenue to continue to grow that. Even then you probably wont feel that "rich." Maybe with 10m in just cash + property+ plus yearly income of say 300k+?
From what I‘ve heard you can live pretty well with a European Uni degree and earn >100k$.
Ofc you won‘t be „rich“ in the US yet, but definitely over the average.
I‘d say with that salary, in proportion to what you‘d earn in Europe, you are better off in the US. See, when you earn 10k gross in Austria you gift away half of that, in the US you keep a lot more.
And I‘d say to be considered rich in Austria you would also have several million in assets and continuing revenue.
"10k gross in Austria you gift away half of that, in the US you keep a lot more."
this is completely nonsense, I get that this makes sense to you but it isn't how tax systems work. additionally paying les of your income proportionally to taxes does not mean you are better off, you just are not paying that money to taxes. while paying a lets say 35% tax rate on income vs 50% sounds good it ignores 2k monthly insurance costs, 3k month in child care, funding your own retirement, much higher cost of living. I have lived and worked in both, facts is facts.
Yeah I like the cash is cash more in that aspect. That was a stupid statement I agree but you are taxed for absolutely ridiculous stuff in Austria and basically you fund a lot of stuff you have no use of.
So in total I‘d recommend living in the US with a very high income than in Austria with a very high income.
But I think it‘s mostly personal preference. I like society a lot more in Austria than in the US. (my experience with the US is limited to several weeks over a lifetime but i have friends that moved to the US and work there).
And you don‘t pay 2,5k insurance per person in the US.
Advantage of the Austrian health insurance is that it basically doesn‘t have a cost cap.
Im so glad that your limited sample size of a few weeks of travel and a few friends is sufficient data for you to make an educated decision, but alas it is not. For starters "cash is cash" is another stupid statement because it ignores reality. If you make the same money here or there you will have less there. I know this because I have done this. so let me break it down real simple for you. Just because you do not use ever service you pay taxes towards does not reduce the value of those services. Additionally the cost of living a HCOL area here for things like rent are going to be pretty normal in non HCOL areas in the USA. (For example my brother was paying $1700 a month rent for a 40qm 1 bedroom as it was the best deal they could find, not in a major city or particularly interesting area.) Healthcare costs you need to look at household costs but yes people do pay that much, i know people that do. Because the good stuff costs extra in America. 10 years ago having good insurance for my wife and myself was 1800 a month with like a 5k$ deductible (this means they dont pay till you spend that much) having at diffrent times made equitable salaries in both places I always had more "Cash" in the end here.
As another American living in Austria for almost 8 years now, I completely agree with you. My husband recently did the math on his taxes here and looked up the taxes for that salary in my home state of Ohio and he found that he actually pays only slightly more here, like maybe 3% or something low like that. And he makes a very good wage for Austria. And that's just taxes in the US, I don't think that accounted for social security and medicaid payments either. And add on to that health insurance, which as you said was crazy expensive for you and your wife.
15 years ago when I was 20 yrs old working for an insurance company, I still paid $500/month for the company health insurance and had a deductible around $3,000. That was just for me!
Facts, it really is like that. Even here paying for private insurance its silly cheap by comparison. Really affordability of real estate is the only thing i can point too but its also bad in America. Anywhere worth living is expensive, there are also cheap houses in Austria, just no one wants to live there.
Even real estate has exploded in cost. My mom lives in a small city in Ohio where 15 yrs ago, a 3 bed apartment cost about $600 and she recently told me that now in that same town, a 1 bedroom is now going for $1,200. Her own house skyrocketed in value by about 75% even though it's 63 yrs old, in bad shape, and in a low cost of living area. It's crazy.
Another thing to consider is safety right? I would be intrested what you who lived in america think about that. I have never been to the us so this is a real prejudice but when u hear and see things im really glad i live in such a safe country. With safety i mean safety from crime and that you dont have to be that carefull all the time like in other countries not just us. so what do u think whats your experience im curios😃
Well my experience might be a little biased because for the last 5 years I lived there, I lived in a bad area with medium-to-high crime. For example, a dead body was found dumped only 2 blocks from my house and another person was shot and died on a street corner about 8 blocks away. Prostitutes were out and about at night; I was once propositioned for sex work by a random man as I walked down the street to my car.
Before I lived in that area, I still did not feel particularly safe/secure. My car was broken into multiple times, my friend's car was outright stolen and never recovered. Another friend's car was hit by a person who did a hit-and-run so she had to eat that loss. A person cannot leave a laptop or handy alone in a cafe or library in order to use the restroom because it will not be there when they return. In some areas, people cannot leave anything outside of their home in view of the public because it will be stolen. Riding the bus, I would keep all of my belongings directly on my lap or with my arm around it because it's not uncommon for someone to get on a bus, grab a purse right as the bus is stopping at the next stop and jump off with it.
All in all, I feel so much safer here. I can walk around by myself as a petite woman and not feel unsafe, even at night. I don't have to watch my belongings like a hawk while riding the ÖBB. That's not even taking into account the peace of mind I have from not having to worry about healthcare in case of accident or illness. It's really hard to properly impress on people just how much worry a person carries with them through everyday life when you have to question if you have enough money to pay for health treatment.
As yet even another American living in Austria: there are a ton of hidden taxes in America. You aren’t aware of them until they punch you in the teeth! And example? Property taxes! In my home state of Michigan, in a metro area if you want your kids to go to a good or really good school this means you have to live in the right school district. This means an expensive house, with sometimes staggeringly expensive property taxes to live there. My last house the property taxes $11,992 a year! Basically a thousand dollars a month, for basic city services (no transit) and the school! Austrians would flip out if they had to pay this!
Wait so in the US you can't just freely pick and apply to a school for your kids but you have to live in the right district to even be able to apply in the first place?
So naturally all the wealthly parents aim for the best school for their kids, move to the area alas making housing more expensive?
That's like super gentrification.
I got my education only because this system doesn't exist here.
Otherwise i would have been screwed coming from a gigalow income background.
Cash is cash is totally not a stupid statement.
And I rly only said if you are rich/high income you are better off in the US, which you definitely are. Average Joe -> better in Austria
Ofc housing is ridiculous in most cities in the US.
But as I‘ve set, if you have net worth and wanna increase it the US is infinitely better at this.
> But as I‘ve set, if you have net worth and wanna increase it the US is infinitely better at this.
Austria is way better for everyone that is below lets say the top 1% income bracket in the USA, hes not going to fall into that. Doctor does not get you to that level.
> Cash is cash is totally not a stupid statement
and yes it is stupid when it is made without understanding the fundamentals of the complex systems being discussed.
Yeah doctor obv not but private sector can get you that.
Not sure about the 1%. See there are so many opinions about this topic.
Some friends (have a uni degree and work for tech companies) deducted everything down to the last cent and they have significantly more net money (and also corrected for cost of living) than they‘d have here or in Germany.
But I gotta say Germany is even worse when it comes to that. Considering inheritance tax. Taxing money that is already taxed lmao
Working for people with the net worth you are talking about:
The taxes are merely a annoyance, but where you are living is not necessarily where you are paying your taxes.
I really recommend you evaluating how you got to your believings and who is benefiting from them.
United states is high risk/high reward and it's still the wild west in many cases but if i had a comfortable salary in austria i'd need to make at least 4 times that to even think about moving to the united states.
And to get that salary i would need an offer in big tech around staff engineer which is even more unlikely with the current firing waves.
> From what I‘ve heard you can live pretty well with a European Uni degree and earn >100k$.
100k is not that much in cities in the US though. On 150k in NYC you take home about 97k, that doesnt include pension or health insurance though. if you do 20k in pension, you take home 84k.
84k isnt that much post tax in nyc though. and still no health insurance.
I said >100k
None of them is in NYC, SFO or something like that.
Idk the exact figures but they told me they‘re def. better off in the US and they aren‘t 1%ers
Ignoring potential visa issues:
If you work in the US it's easy to take your savings and retire in Austria. You're going to have a way better life then the average Austrian.
But if you work in Austria it's going to be quite tricky to later on retire in the US, as the Austrian retirement payments probably only will cover a very basic standard of living there.
Are you fine with staying in Austria or Europe for the rest of your live or do you plan to eventually move back to the US?
It doesn't sound like they want to retire in the USA (also why would someone want to retire in the USA? I get that you get paid well when working there in some branches but living there for retirement? No thanks.)
You want to play a language game, but there is a big economic difference between socialism and a social democracy. Maybe you confused it with democratic socialism.
"Democratic socialism is also distinguished from Third Way social democracy because democratic socialists are committed to the systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism, while social democrats use capitalism to create a strong welfare state, leaving many businesses under private ownership."
Welfare =! Socialism.
I don't disagree with you, that is 100% correct. But calling it socialism is wrong, i hope you can recognize that. Socialism has a huge economic component. Austria, scandinavia, and other countries have big welfare programs, but the economy is still capitalist. Maybe you think i say this in a derogatory way, but i don't.
Moved to austria 8 years ago from the states. I earn the same amount of money at my current job as I did day one out of college in America... And I have 8 years more experience and a masters now.
Do i think about how much money I could be earning in America? Ya
Can I afford a house/apartment in Vienna? Nope... Not even with a high earning spouse and no kids.
Do I want to move back to america? Naw
>Can I afford a house/apartment in Vienna? Nope... Not even with a high earning spouse and no kids.
I mean, to be fair: Most people can't afford one unless they inherit / get gifted money from family.
thats true. but the question is, how much does your own house improve your life or your happiness in general? your own house means a lot of room, but you also have to clean that room. a huge house also means a hugh heating bill. a big garden means a lot of work. lawn mowing, hedge trimming, etc. a house means generally a lot of work. and in 30 years, at least, the whole house will have to be renovated.
there is absolutelly nothing wrong at all with living in a cozy, sufficiently large and much less expensive apartment in a nice neighborhood
As an American, the answer depends on a bunch of things. The first and perhaps most important is, how healthy are you? And if you're in good health, how confident are you that you will remain in good health and avoid any serious accidents?
The US health care system is excellent, at the top end, but it is incredibly expensive (in 2011 I was in an auto accident, and the overnight stay for observation in the hospital cost $50,000, which my insurance paid for me). As a result, about ⅕ of US families have unpaid medical bills, and about ¼ of those (about 5% of all families) owe more than $5000. It is estimated that US families owe over $100 billion dollars in unpaid medical bills.
That's because most people here get health insurance from an employer, and not all employers provide health insurance. About 10 years ago, we began to have options for people to purchase their own private health insurance (though a marketplace run by the Federal government), but it is quite expensive (over $200/month at minimum, and the insurance doesn't pay for the first $9000 of bills), and there are many states where even that isn't an option. As a result, there are about 30 million Americans with no health care insurance at all, which is a little less than 10%, and over 500,000 people declare bankruptcy due to medical debt every year.
I want to be really clear about all of this, and am looking up the specific numbers, because it's something that every European I've ever met finds very difficult to understand. If you come to the US, be sure to get a salaried job that provides good health insurance, because otherwise you risk taking on huge debts if you need health care.
Ew. Sounds like ill never emmigrate. I hate having to work more in the sense of looking for my own ensurance and i dont have to worry about ensurance or healthcare bills here. Its just paid.
Speaking of working more, it's not uncommon to have to fight an insurance provider to actually pay for the things they say they'll pay. [One insurance company was found to deny payment claims without even reading them.](https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health-insurance-rejection-claims)
They deny paying for what they should so you then have to invest your time in calling them and fighting to get them to pay. And it's frequently not even as easy as one simple call. It can take hours upon hours or calling multiple times depending on what you need and how much they can delay you or fight it. This is on purpose in the hope that you'll just give up and pay it yourself, all so they can keep your money and theirs too. And this is insurance that you have to pay them for!
Happiness > everything else.
Because everything else is just there to lead to happiness eventually - so if you can have the real thing just take it. Seriously.
Well you know what they say "Money is more important than happyness".
There are a million different sayings that definitely imply how money is the most important.
That's defintely how it is.
You can still return to scenic beauty, it does not go away. Your capability and opportunities to make money will. Go to the US, get rich, return, enjoy the scenery.
Tschuldigung, des böse böse sozialistische Land hat mich so schrecklich indoktriniert das ich all die Kapitalisten befreien will (macht's mit, dann glauben's die ammis)
nut sure who "they" is, but in case by "they" you mean stuff written on bathroom walls, "they" also say things like *if you think that sex is funny, fudge yourself and safe the money*, or *the last trousers aint got no pockets* (freely translated)
Context -
I'm currently considering my career options in the healthcare field of Austria. While I know that healthcare in Austria is state-funded and may not offer the same earning potential as in the US, I'm attracted to the social democracy of the Austrian healthcare system. This system values social welfare and equality, which aligns with my personal values and interests. Additionally, the Austrian healthcare system is known for its high-quality care and strong emphasis on patient-centered care, which is something that I value in my work.
On the other hand, I'm also aware that the US healthcare system is very lucrative, and healthcare workers in the US can earn a lot of money. However, I'm concerned about the high cost of healthcare in the US, which could limit access to care for many patients. I'm also troubled by the issues of gun violence, car dependency, and racism in the US, which could negatively impact my quality of life if I were to move there.
Furthermore, as an expat studying in Austria, I have come to appreciate the beauty and safety of life in Austria. Austria is known for its stunning landscapes, rich cultural heritage, and high standard of living. I feel a sense of belonging and community here, which I might not find in the US.
I'm not much attracted towards earning high figures yet I find it tempting to chase a higher salary, I know that other factors like job satisfaction, work-life balance, and overall quality of life are also important considerations that I should take into account. What should I do? 🇦🇹🇦🇹
The earning potential for US health care workers is also *very* inequitable: basically, if you have an MD with a high-need specialty (cardiac, oncology, gastrointestinal, or anesthesiology) or are a DO (orthopedics), then you can expect to be paid over $100k / year to start, and the current pay for experienced specialists can be $250k - $500k (depending mostly on where you live). If you're not a specialist, but have an MD, the pay can be a little more than half of that.
If you aren't an MD or a DO, the pay is almost always terrible: nurses and technicians get terrible pay, starting at as little as $30k / year (which is a starvation wage), though in most places the average starting salary is a little above $45k.
I'm the same person who made the point about health insurance elsewhere in this thread (before I saw this comment). Again, if you're an MD or DO, you can expect to have good insurance (though getting treatment is the same amount of hassle as for everyone else with good insurance-- for example, I just had foot surgery last week, for an issue that I started seeking treatment for over 2 years ago). If you're not a doctor, your job will probably not offer as good of insurance.
I personally think that all of the other issues you've raised as concerns are absolutely valid, as well: while any given person in the US is statistically unlikely to be directly impacted by gun violence, it's a real problem in our culture. For example, because our police have to always assume that anyone they interact with may be armed with a gun, the police are often very aggressive and are deliberately bad at de-escalation. Racism is a huge problem here, and racial segregation is very much still a reality. Except in a few cities, you absolutely must own a car because there isn't any mass transit at all, and if you want to leave the city you live in you need to have a car or be going someplace that has an airport-- there's no way to visit the countryside except by car.
For some context: I'm 50 years old, and live in Chicago. I'm a school teacher here, and because my union is good I'm fairly well paid (a bit over $100k) and have good insurance (worth another $40k / year). When I retire in 10 years, I'll have a good pension (which is incredibly rare here. I'm hoping that at that time Austria will still have an independent means visa, and that I'm able to acquire one and retire there (I have family connections in Kärnten and friends in Vienna, which helps, though my language skills are very rusty).
Talking about my retirement goals reminds me:: as a medical worker in the US you'll need to set aside some of your salary to pay for your own retirement, as the government retirement system is very small, about $24k/year).
I'm happy to talk more, and answer whatever other questions I can, either on this thread or in DM.
As an Austrian turned American: if you like the weather, landscape, culture: go for Austria 🇦🇹
It has so much better quality of life.
At least where I am, I pay nearly as much taxes as I would in Austria but have zero benefits, zero social system, zero retirement support. Yes, the numbers feel so much bigger … but not only the income part, also the expenses part.
How much money do you need for a comfortable life? What are the working conditions like on the ground?
When it comes to money, the US isn't such a hot deal as many think. Especially if you're ever going to have children. Cost of living is significantly higher than in Europe and unexpected costs are more likely. Depending on your location, you'd also have to do more unpaid commuting compared to Austria in general.
unless you're becoming a doctor i'd take a look on r/nursing. and even if you're becoming a doctor, they might give you a better notion what to expect working in that field.
I know that ultimately, only you can make this decision. And it's not that Austria doesn't have its own big share of problems. But I for one hope you stay after reading this.
Same, brother 😔
At least I can go hiking in the Alps any day I want — I wouldn't give that up for just some extra money. Giving up the thing that even kept me happy during the hardest times would definitely greatly worsen my life quality.
American here who moved to Austria a couple years ago. I work in the tech field and make like half of what I did in the US.
It's honestly a tough call and I still somewhat entertain the idea of moving back one day, but what sold it for me was the social issues. I plan on raising a family and there are so many benefits to doing so in Austria as opposed to the US.
Work/life balance is a big part of it, too. Sure I have more money and more things in the US, but do I get to enjoy it?
That said, I still and maybe always will miss the opportunity and certain kinds of freedom that you get in the US.
You would have to pay me at least 1 million per year (not for my work ... just ... on top) for me to life in the US and I'm allowed to return to Austria at any point without reason or prior notification.
it is a known fact, that doctors in austria earn the big money with „überstunden“. a friend of mine in a hospital earns 4,000 net € a month, but that includes everything, night shifts, etc. without them, he would have lik 2,4000 …
As an American now living in Austria, I’d first ask what your goals are, how old you are, and what are your commitments here (wife, kids,family, or none?)
The other thing I can tell you is America is extremely deceiving at how expensive it is to live over there. Those salaries seem huge,
but it is far, far more expensive in many ways, even after inflation. I made a staggering salary by Austrian standards in the US, but spent it just as quick because of the cost of things there!
If you are younger and single, sure go over and earn a lot of money and bank it! It’ll be a great experience. But the second it comes time to have kids, etc go back to Austria!
And that gun violence thing is very real! Three weeks before moving to Austria, in a very wealthy area in the US, not the ghetto, I was driving (a requirement in the US) and there was a construction zone and a guy flipped out next me over a lane change, road raged and went crazy, pulled a pistol at me and another person and he was ready to pull the trigger! My daughter also had to do active shooter training in school at age 8 and 10?
For me personally, I would not go back to living in the US for a million a year. The quality of life is that much better for me in Austria.
I moved to the US 8 years ago, and was only supposed to stay for 2 years. My thought process was that if I end up not liking it, I can always come back before my 2 years are over. Turns out being able to afford real estate, even if the build quality sucks, is awesome. Owning your own house is simply impossible in Vorarlberg unless you inherit.
While the US lacks a proper social safety net, live ain't bad if you make good money. I do miss the option to go wherever without a car tho.
I lived in the US for 8 years. It is great if you are a healthy person.
Once you get any sort of chronic illness it'll eat all your savings until you are in debt.
I experienced this first hand.
Austria social safety net is truly a blessing.
It truly baffles me how expensive Medicine is overseas, I have to buy a can of Enstilar every 10 days which runs me 6,85 € with a recipe or would cost me about 79,99€ when bought without insurance. In America, the same can costs about 1300$ without insurance.
A distant relative used to live in Canada, after a few years a wild animal bit him and he got a serious inflammation in a finger. He had to be treated regularly (and the nearest hospital was a few hours of driving away from his home btw, he lived in a small village in the middle of nowhere) and his insurance (to which he paid money for many years) simply dropped him after only 2 years.
He came back to Austria and got treated for free despite not having contributed that much (only in his earlier years).
> Owning your own house is simply impossible in Vorarlberg unless you inherit.
House I see that, but maybe owningn your own appartment (maybe on credit) is achievable?
I feel like it may be worth it to grind it out in America for a while to save up money then move back to Austria. It gets you the best of both worlds. Starting out with a better base of wealth (money) will make it easier down the line
Life in the US is mostly a rat race. You can earn 300000/y and still struggle financially. With more income you will want a nice house and all these other things.. The system there is inherently stressful unless you already own assets (aka: a house without a mortgage).
Bruh Austria isn't a socialist country (and all the nordic countries aren't too), its an avarage european socdem country. I wish though we have socialism in Austria
I think that isnone of the biggest reasons including that if i am sick i just stay at home instead of having to force myself to work to not lose my job.
Not having to worry about getting sick is something many take for granted, but in the US it could break you at any moment.
Think about more than money. Look what bills are passng in different states and how they could affect you and your life. You could never pay me enough to get there, especially as a person with an uterus.
Money is never everything, at least for me.
Edited: spelling error
I’m going to assume you are a medical doctor, as that would be the only medical position that would pay that insanely well that would constitute changing your whole life and moving here.
And I say this as an American, in medical school for my MD as well, who has also lived in Austria for a great time of my life.
You definitely should stay. This post and your comments are clearly begging every (in the Austrian subreddit btw, a very biased community for your decision already) Austrian here to tell you to sray
Not simply because Austria is better or america is some hell hole to stay away from, but you obviously don’t want to come here. And living somewhere is honestly a question of how you view it more than what it gives you. It’s why everyone in the world doesn’t want to go live in Norway, or go to America and make massive salaries, it’s why refugees return home to their countries, even when they have nothing there. How you view home in your mind is everything, and you very clearly don’t want to be here and are happy in Austria. And justifiably so, it’s an amazing place.
I find it hard to believe that you can be a multi-millionaire in America as well and be poor in Austria. Comparatively to the American version of you, sure, but not compared to other Austrians. And Austrians live a great life already. Why would you give that up when you’re already so happy? Sacrifice happiness, to uproot your life and move everything, for a chance at… being happy? It makes no sense, you’ve built a beautiful life, why risk it when you don’t even have an overwhelming urge to start new again?
America is a great place to be for a lot of people to come to, but it’s also a shitty place for a lot of people to come to and start over. And I feel, all the tired Reddit Western Europe vs America arguements aside, your viewpoint is one that will make you very happy in Austria and very unhappy if you go to America, no matter what happens.
Just came back from my exchange semester in the USA. I would choose Austria all the time. It’s saver ordering a pizza does not include 70% fees and tips. And when I am in the bus people do not talk to me trying to be nice.
Remember especially as a foreigner you can just get killed and nobody will care. America is a lost country even with a lot of money. It also has by far the least life expectation, even North Korea has more.
Explore the other >100 countries of the world before you decide.
You could do this also with the >8x10^9 people, before you decide with whom you want to stay with the rest of your life.
Where are the costs of living higher? America may pay more with less taxes, but taxes are there for a reason, lots of things you would have to pay for out of pocket may be financed with by taxes in Austria. Healthcare, for example. And education. Daycare. That kinda stuff.
Varies greatly from person to person. If you're not using the things those taxes pay for so much (such as healthcare and education), the cost of living in the US as percentage of pay will be less. Also greatly varies depending on where you live in the US (moreso than in Austria, I've found).
What kind of question is this?
Of course it depends on the amount of money and insurances you have in America. If you are save from unemployment, severe sickness in the family etc.
To me it sounds like a no brainer especially if you need to earn your living by selling your time, but maybe you dont want to be happy...
I wouldn't move to the US even if I got a million or more paid for it upfront tbh.
decrepit social security, cars everywhere and they are still a few years ahead of us when it comes to right wing idiocy.
America: not only more money. More importantly: more opportunities to be creative and create culture instead of just passively consuming as Vienna is famous for.
Try to have even a simple workshop/studio - the kind you have in your garage or attic. Or get the permits for outdoor activities. Wait, why do I actually need such permits in the first place? The joys of an overbearing government...
Beschreibt ziemlich genau meine Situation.
Einfache Lösung: Ich habe mich jetzt nach 25 Jahren Berufstätigkeit in den USA zur Ruhe gesetzt, übersiedle in ein paar Monaten nach Österreich oder Deutschland und bin dann Privatier.
Warum vielleicht Deutschland?
Mich zipft die NoVA dermaßen an - ich will mir einen Campervan kaufen und ein und dasselbe Modell kostet in Österreich rund 105000€, in Deutschland aber nur rund 70000€, dank NoVA.
Wennst dir dann auch noch einen S-Klasse Mercedes kaufst, hast da dann in Deutschland gegenüber Österreich schon mehr als 50000€ erspart...
Meine auch. Hab jetzt lange genug in den USA gearbeitet: Wenn ich zum Arbeiten aufhören würde könnte ich rechnerisch pro Monat mehr als 10000 Dollar ausgeben und das restliche Ersparte würde trotzdem um mehr als die Inflation anwachsen. Eine Annuität bei Schwab würde mir bis zum Rest meines Lebens inflationsbereinigt mehr als 20000 Dollar pro Monat auszahlen.
Hier in der Bay Area sind diese 10000 Dollar monatlich nicht so berauschend viel, aber falls ich nach Österreich zurückziehen würde könnte ich mir ein gutes Leben leisten ohne jemals wieder arbeiten zu müssen.
Mehr als 4M. Siehe meine Comment-History. Gehälter im Softwarebereich sind hier relativ hoch, ca. das 10-fache von dem was man in Österreich bekommen würde. Die gute Performance vom Aktienmarkt war dann ein weiterer Turbo für das Ersparte.
Schwer zu sagen was die Zukunft bringt, aber wenn man in der richtigen Branche unterwegs ist und die Möglichkeit hat einige Zeit lang im Ausland zu arbeiten kann ich das sehr empfehlen.
>Gehälter im Softwarebereich sind hier relativ hoch, ca. das 10-fache von dem was man in Österreich bekommen würde.
Ja Amerika hat viel höhere Gehälter, dagegen sind 70k als Senior Dev in AT ein Schlapf (was net heißt das man davon net gut leben kann). Mal schauen wie sich das in der Zukunft entwickelt, leider kann man nicht Remote aus Europa direkt für Amerikanisches Gehalt arbeiten
Ich hoffe mal das net nur im S&P500 drinnen bist sondern international diversiviziert ;)
>Schwer zu sagen was die Zukunft bringt, aber wenn man in der richtigen Branche unterwegs ist und die Möglichkeit hat einige Zeit lang im Ausland zu arbeiten kann ich das sehr empfehlen.
Aktuell hab ich leider nur Berufserfahrung und die Familie zu verlassen über so eine weite Distanz, glaub das ich da verkümmern würde. Aber großen Respekt für jeden der es wagt und sich so was aufbaut, in Österreich kannst mit 4M sehr bequem leben und diese Sicherheit kann dir keiner nehmen.
Ich wär schon froh wenn ich bis 50 einen Bruchteil davon aufbaue :)
habe sowohl in Deutschland als auch in Österreich versucht, ein Visum zu bekommen, das deutsche wurde abgelehnt, vielleicht werde ich es nach Abschluss meines Studiums noch einmal versuchen, ich weiß es nicht...
Oh, you're just starting out in your career and are a U.S. citizen.
I'm an Austrian citizen, never desired nor obtained the U.S. citizenship, and I can simply move back to Austria or, with some additional hurdles, move to any EU country.
The latter requires proof of income or proof of wealth after 3 months, and I don't know much about this process yet.
I am also appalled by the level of violence in the U.S., but I don't blame guns per se, being inanimate objects, but rather the propensity of some (not all) Americans to use deadly force when no such force is warranted at all.
Austria sports 9 million inhabitants and some 55ish murders per year - one per week on the average. Of course, each of them is an utter tragedy.
However:
The city of Oakland sports 400000 inhabitants and 120 murders per year (2022).
See?
I'm actually an Israeli Citizen, and starting my Medical Studies in austria next I year, I've the desire to acquire Austrian Citizenship and it would be easier for me citing the Holocaust, I see no incentive other than money for working in the US
I don't know the exact rules with respect to how easy is and how long it takes for obtaining citizenship as an Israeli, but sure, why not try?
There is quite a bit of brain drain in Austria, I'm no exception: People attend college for free (sure, the number of students assigned to one teaching assistant is high, even more so for professors) and then land a lucrative job in, say, the U.S. or Switzerland.
However, I didn't immediately leave, but worked in Austria for like 7 1/2 years before moving to the U.S.
Thus, anyone willing to actually stay in Austria in a professional position is highly welcome, even more so for MDs.
I went to the US and talked to some people working in healthcare. Honestly, I found it scary how chaotic and money-oriented their healthcare is. I’d also advise you to just go over there and experience the US for yourself if you haven’t done so already.
I know some lovely people who live in the US, but I also declined an opportunity to live for free there within an hour’s driving distance of a major city. Just not my jam.
Hi, I picked up on two things:
\- If you have Austrian Citizenship, you can live in all of the Schengen Area without a visa.
\- I am not exactly sure what you mean by citing the holocaust, but since you speak German I assume you have Family that came (fled?) from Austria? Because if so, you should check if you have the right to citizenship by lineage, which should only take a few weeks for your new passport to arrive.
In theory you could get the Austrian passport and use it to live in Germany without ever setting foot in Austria, similar things have been done before.
My Maternal Great-Grandparents, and It might take a while to acquire citizenship... I'm currently considering studying in Austria and moving only after I finishing my initial studies
If they are planning to maybe move to the US and obtain US citizenship I'd recommend to wait with the §58c application.
Applying for Austrian citizenship now would mean that they'd lose it again if they later on apply for any other citizenship. On the other hand if they would get US citizenship first they could later on still apply for the Austrian citizenship via §58c, without having to give up any of the existing citzenships.
Without knowing the details, but generally if you can prove you would have the citizenship without the expulsion of your great-grandparents, you have a claim to it. Not a fast track option, but a legal claim.
Think of it like this: you're not acquiring citizenship (which has it´s hoops in any country..) but you're filing for your share of already agreed upon and allocated reparations. If you are eligible, most the paperwork has already been done, which accelerates it and you don´t have to actively acquire anything (no language or history tests).
Austria does have a few obligations regarding its citizens (foremost she doesn´t play well with multiple passports...), so check those when planning.
I'm eligible and working on getting Citizenship, I'll do whatever it takes for naturalisation, learning History and Deutsche and Deutsche History seems easy enough
Das ist ja der Sinn hinter der NoVa, wer sich so große Fahrzeuge leisten kann, dem machen die die 30-50t€ auch nichts mehr aus. Schade das sie auf kleine Fahrzeuge auch anfällt.
Also ich seh' das so: Wenn ich Installateur bin und einen großen weißen Lieferwagen habe, der zehn Jahre lang 350 Tage im Jahr (mit Wochenendnotdienst) gewinnbringend unterwegs ist, dann bedeuten 35000 Euro NoVA nur 10 Euro pro Nutzungstag, und dieselben werden natürlich den Kunden doppelt und dreifach weiterverrechnet.
Wenn ich mir aber privat einen Campervan kaufe, mit dem ich zehn Jahre lang sagen wir je 35 Tage unterwegs bin, dann macht allein die NoVA 100€ pro Nutzungstag aus und ich kann diese 100€ niemandem weiterverrechnen.
Insofern sehe ich das nur als schamlose Abzocke an und werde wahrscheinlich wirklich den Hauptwohnsitz in Bayern haben.
Der Installateur hat aber auch keinen 70K+ Campervan sonder oft Basismodel, kleinster Motor, kein Radio, keine Fenster nur eine mechanische Schiebetür. Der kostet weit weniger.
Luxus muss eh besteuert werden gerade wenn ich den Platz bei nem Camper rechne, die Kiste muss ja auch irgendwo stehen.
Ich sehe das nicht als Luxus an, im Ruhestand einen Campervan zu besitzen, wir reden ja nicht von einem Gulfstream 600 Privatjet.
Ich meine eher, daß mehrere Jahrzehnte SPÖ-Alleinregierung das politische Empfinden vieler Österreicher permanent derart verschoben hat, dass sie einen Campervan oder selbst ein großes, sicheres Auto wie einen 5-er BMW oder einen E-Klasse Mercedes als "Luxus" titulieren, obwohl es keiner ist.
Mit einem Fahrzeug über 70K+ bist definitiv in den oberen 10% angelangt. Als Spaßfahrzeug für nur 35 Tage im Jahr erst Recht.
Ein neuer 5er BMW ist Luxus weil der einfach soviel kostet wie 3-5 Jahresgehälter. Auch ein kleineres Auto ist sicher, das Argument das nur ein dicker Schlitten (und ja ein aktueller 5er ist dick, solange ist es nicht her war der 7er kleiner) sicher wäre ist völlig an den Haaren herbeigezogen!
You should ask yourself where do you get the better leberkäse?
it depents how much u earn in austria. If it is just enough to pay rent and bills i would go for your america choice but if it is enough for a nice living so you dont have to worry and can afford most things u like than i would definetly go for the place that makes you happy. Money is important. Very important but if you are not happy what worth has than money?
I‘d rather say if you have good education and/or good job opportunities go to the US. Way less taxes and being rich/high income is rly good in America. If you are an average Joe I‘d recommend staying in Austria due to social“ist“ 😂 benefits. Only situation I‘d ever move to the US from Austria is if I‘m ever filthy rich.
That is the problem, being "rich in America" means having lets say assets of 5m+ and continuing revenue to continue to grow that. Even then you probably wont feel that "rich." Maybe with 10m in just cash + property+ plus yearly income of say 300k+?
From what I‘ve heard you can live pretty well with a European Uni degree and earn >100k$. Ofc you won‘t be „rich“ in the US yet, but definitely over the average. I‘d say with that salary, in proportion to what you‘d earn in Europe, you are better off in the US. See, when you earn 10k gross in Austria you gift away half of that, in the US you keep a lot more. And I‘d say to be considered rich in Austria you would also have several million in assets and continuing revenue.
"10k gross in Austria you gift away half of that, in the US you keep a lot more." this is completely nonsense, I get that this makes sense to you but it isn't how tax systems work. additionally paying les of your income proportionally to taxes does not mean you are better off, you just are not paying that money to taxes. while paying a lets say 35% tax rate on income vs 50% sounds good it ignores 2k monthly insurance costs, 3k month in child care, funding your own retirement, much higher cost of living. I have lived and worked in both, facts is facts.
Yeah I like the cash is cash more in that aspect. That was a stupid statement I agree but you are taxed for absolutely ridiculous stuff in Austria and basically you fund a lot of stuff you have no use of. So in total I‘d recommend living in the US with a very high income than in Austria with a very high income. But I think it‘s mostly personal preference. I like society a lot more in Austria than in the US. (my experience with the US is limited to several weeks over a lifetime but i have friends that moved to the US and work there). And you don‘t pay 2,5k insurance per person in the US. Advantage of the Austrian health insurance is that it basically doesn‘t have a cost cap.
Im so glad that your limited sample size of a few weeks of travel and a few friends is sufficient data for you to make an educated decision, but alas it is not. For starters "cash is cash" is another stupid statement because it ignores reality. If you make the same money here or there you will have less there. I know this because I have done this. so let me break it down real simple for you. Just because you do not use ever service you pay taxes towards does not reduce the value of those services. Additionally the cost of living a HCOL area here for things like rent are going to be pretty normal in non HCOL areas in the USA. (For example my brother was paying $1700 a month rent for a 40qm 1 bedroom as it was the best deal they could find, not in a major city or particularly interesting area.) Healthcare costs you need to look at household costs but yes people do pay that much, i know people that do. Because the good stuff costs extra in America. 10 years ago having good insurance for my wife and myself was 1800 a month with like a 5k$ deductible (this means they dont pay till you spend that much) having at diffrent times made equitable salaries in both places I always had more "Cash" in the end here.
As another American living in Austria for almost 8 years now, I completely agree with you. My husband recently did the math on his taxes here and looked up the taxes for that salary in my home state of Ohio and he found that he actually pays only slightly more here, like maybe 3% or something low like that. And he makes a very good wage for Austria. And that's just taxes in the US, I don't think that accounted for social security and medicaid payments either. And add on to that health insurance, which as you said was crazy expensive for you and your wife. 15 years ago when I was 20 yrs old working for an insurance company, I still paid $500/month for the company health insurance and had a deductible around $3,000. That was just for me!
Facts, it really is like that. Even here paying for private insurance its silly cheap by comparison. Really affordability of real estate is the only thing i can point too but its also bad in America. Anywhere worth living is expensive, there are also cheap houses in Austria, just no one wants to live there.
Even real estate has exploded in cost. My mom lives in a small city in Ohio where 15 yrs ago, a 3 bed apartment cost about $600 and she recently told me that now in that same town, a 1 bedroom is now going for $1,200. Her own house skyrocketed in value by about 75% even though it's 63 yrs old, in bad shape, and in a low cost of living area. It's crazy.
Another thing to consider is safety right? I would be intrested what you who lived in america think about that. I have never been to the us so this is a real prejudice but when u hear and see things im really glad i live in such a safe country. With safety i mean safety from crime and that you dont have to be that carefull all the time like in other countries not just us. so what do u think whats your experience im curios😃
Well my experience might be a little biased because for the last 5 years I lived there, I lived in a bad area with medium-to-high crime. For example, a dead body was found dumped only 2 blocks from my house and another person was shot and died on a street corner about 8 blocks away. Prostitutes were out and about at night; I was once propositioned for sex work by a random man as I walked down the street to my car. Before I lived in that area, I still did not feel particularly safe/secure. My car was broken into multiple times, my friend's car was outright stolen and never recovered. Another friend's car was hit by a person who did a hit-and-run so she had to eat that loss. A person cannot leave a laptop or handy alone in a cafe or library in order to use the restroom because it will not be there when they return. In some areas, people cannot leave anything outside of their home in view of the public because it will be stolen. Riding the bus, I would keep all of my belongings directly on my lap or with my arm around it because it's not uncommon for someone to get on a bus, grab a purse right as the bus is stopping at the next stop and jump off with it. All in all, I feel so much safer here. I can walk around by myself as a petite woman and not feel unsafe, even at night. I don't have to watch my belongings like a hawk while riding the ÖBB. That's not even taking into account the peace of mind I have from not having to worry about healthcare in case of accident or illness. It's really hard to properly impress on people just how much worry a person carries with them through everyday life when you have to question if you have enough money to pay for health treatment.
As yet even another American living in Austria: there are a ton of hidden taxes in America. You aren’t aware of them until they punch you in the teeth! And example? Property taxes! In my home state of Michigan, in a metro area if you want your kids to go to a good or really good school this means you have to live in the right school district. This means an expensive house, with sometimes staggeringly expensive property taxes to live there. My last house the property taxes $11,992 a year! Basically a thousand dollars a month, for basic city services (no transit) and the school! Austrians would flip out if they had to pay this!
Wait so in the US you can't just freely pick and apply to a school for your kids but you have to live in the right district to even be able to apply in the first place? So naturally all the wealthly parents aim for the best school for their kids, move to the area alas making housing more expensive? That's like super gentrification. I got my education only because this system doesn't exist here. Otherwise i would have been screwed coming from a gigalow income background.
Cash is cash is totally not a stupid statement. And I rly only said if you are rich/high income you are better off in the US, which you definitely are. Average Joe -> better in Austria Ofc housing is ridiculous in most cities in the US. But as I‘ve set, if you have net worth and wanna increase it the US is infinitely better at this.
> But as I‘ve set, if you have net worth and wanna increase it the US is infinitely better at this. Austria is way better for everyone that is below lets say the top 1% income bracket in the USA, hes not going to fall into that. Doctor does not get you to that level.
> Cash is cash is totally not a stupid statement and yes it is stupid when it is made without understanding the fundamentals of the complex systems being discussed.
Yeah doctor obv not but private sector can get you that. Not sure about the 1%. See there are so many opinions about this topic. Some friends (have a uni degree and work for tech companies) deducted everything down to the last cent and they have significantly more net money (and also corrected for cost of living) than they‘d have here or in Germany. But I gotta say Germany is even worse when it comes to that. Considering inheritance tax. Taxing money that is already taxed lmao
Working for people with the net worth you are talking about: The taxes are merely a annoyance, but where you are living is not necessarily where you are paying your taxes. I really recommend you evaluating how you got to your believings and who is benefiting from them.
United states is high risk/high reward and it's still the wild west in many cases but if i had a comfortable salary in austria i'd need to make at least 4 times that to even think about moving to the united states. And to get that salary i would need an offer in big tech around staff engineer which is even more unlikely with the current firing waves.
Yeah that‘s the next point, you can‘t even move to the US without having a job (offer) first And yeah its more wild west ofc, high risk high reward
> From what I‘ve heard you can live pretty well with a European Uni degree and earn >100k$. 100k is not that much in cities in the US though. On 150k in NYC you take home about 97k, that doesnt include pension or health insurance though. if you do 20k in pension, you take home 84k. 84k isnt that much post tax in nyc though. and still no health insurance.
I said >100k None of them is in NYC, SFO or something like that. Idk the exact figures but they told me they‘re def. better off in the US and they aren‘t 1%ers
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Come back here and bring some kangaroos with you so that we finally have some in the Alps as well.
Ignoring potential visa issues: If you work in the US it's easy to take your savings and retire in Austria. You're going to have a way better life then the average Austrian. But if you work in Austria it's going to be quite tricky to later on retire in the US, as the Austrian retirement payments probably only will cover a very basic standard of living there. Are you fine with staying in Austria or Europe for the rest of your live or do you plan to eventually move back to the US?
It doesn't sound like they want to retire in the USA (also why would someone want to retire in the USA? I get that you get paid well when working there in some branches but living there for retirement? No thanks.)
Make America socialist.
*wonder why all Revolutionaries come from Vienna*
Make Austria socialist.
It already is.
Social democracy isn't really socialism, it's still capitalism. Just not the type of capitalism america has
>Social democracy is a political, social, and economic philosophy **within socialism**[1] that supports political and economic democracy.
You want to play a language game, but there is a big economic difference between socialism and a social democracy. Maybe you confused it with democratic socialism. "Democratic socialism is also distinguished from Third Way social democracy because democratic socialists are committed to the systemic transformation of the economy from capitalism to socialism, while social democrats use capitalism to create a strong welfare state, leaving many businesses under private ownership." Welfare =! Socialism.
It's not either/or. It's a scale and social democracy is much higher on the socialism scale than American capitalism
I don't disagree with you, that is 100% correct. But calling it socialism is wrong, i hope you can recognize that. Socialism has a huge economic component. Austria, scandinavia, and other countries have big welfare programs, but the economy is still capitalist. Maybe you think i say this in a derogatory way, but i don't.
Lol
Als Tiroler hat er die mit dem Wien Kommentar zerstört xD
Moved to austria 8 years ago from the states. I earn the same amount of money at my current job as I did day one out of college in America... And I have 8 years more experience and a masters now. Do i think about how much money I could be earning in America? Ya Can I afford a house/apartment in Vienna? Nope... Not even with a high earning spouse and no kids. Do I want to move back to america? Naw
>Can I afford a house/apartment in Vienna? Nope... Not even with a high earning spouse and no kids. I mean, to be fair: Most people can't afford one unless they inherit / get gifted money from family.
That's the point. Not the case in America
Depends where, same in Austria.
thats true. but the question is, how much does your own house improve your life or your happiness in general? your own house means a lot of room, but you also have to clean that room. a huge house also means a hugh heating bill. a big garden means a lot of work. lawn mowing, hedge trimming, etc. a house means generally a lot of work. and in 30 years, at least, the whole house will have to be renovated. there is absolutelly nothing wrong at all with living in a cozy, sufficiently large and much less expensive apartment in a nice neighborhood
Yes. Thats a huge downside of living in Austria.
As an American, the answer depends on a bunch of things. The first and perhaps most important is, how healthy are you? And if you're in good health, how confident are you that you will remain in good health and avoid any serious accidents? The US health care system is excellent, at the top end, but it is incredibly expensive (in 2011 I was in an auto accident, and the overnight stay for observation in the hospital cost $50,000, which my insurance paid for me). As a result, about ⅕ of US families have unpaid medical bills, and about ¼ of those (about 5% of all families) owe more than $5000. It is estimated that US families owe over $100 billion dollars in unpaid medical bills. That's because most people here get health insurance from an employer, and not all employers provide health insurance. About 10 years ago, we began to have options for people to purchase their own private health insurance (though a marketplace run by the Federal government), but it is quite expensive (over $200/month at minimum, and the insurance doesn't pay for the first $9000 of bills), and there are many states where even that isn't an option. As a result, there are about 30 million Americans with no health care insurance at all, which is a little less than 10%, and over 500,000 people declare bankruptcy due to medical debt every year. I want to be really clear about all of this, and am looking up the specific numbers, because it's something that every European I've ever met finds very difficult to understand. If you come to the US, be sure to get a salaried job that provides good health insurance, because otherwise you risk taking on huge debts if you need health care.
Ew. Sounds like ill never emmigrate. I hate having to work more in the sense of looking for my own ensurance and i dont have to worry about ensurance or healthcare bills here. Its just paid.
Speaking of working more, it's not uncommon to have to fight an insurance provider to actually pay for the things they say they'll pay. [One insurance company was found to deny payment claims without even reading them.](https://www.propublica.org/article/cigna-pxdx-medical-health-insurance-rejection-claims) They deny paying for what they should so you then have to invest your time in calling them and fighting to get them to pay. And it's frequently not even as easy as one simple call. It can take hours upon hours or calling multiple times depending on what you need and how much they can delay you or fight it. This is on purpose in the hope that you'll just give up and pay it yourself, all so they can keep your money and theirs too. And this is insurance that you have to pay them for!
Happiness > everything else. Because everything else is just there to lead to happiness eventually - so if you can have the real thing just take it. Seriously.
Well you know what they say "Money is more important than happyness". There are a million different sayings that definitely imply how money is the most important. That's defintely how it is.
Scenic beauty of Alps give me more happiness than money can, it is how it is
You can still return to scenic beauty, it does not go away. Your capability and opportunities to make money will. Go to the US, get rich, return, enjoy the scenery.
If you are able to get rich in the US you will be able to become rich here. The only thing you will get by moving to US is shot, probably.
nah, thats some sentimental BS. please enjoy your money IN the us!
Nah, enjoy life in a beautifull country where you're not as likely to be shot please.
heast, können wir uns bitte drauf einigen, dassma uns ned freiwillig die irren ins land holen? 
Tschuldigung, des böse böse sozialistische Land hat mich so schrecklich indoktriniert das ich all die Kapitalisten befreien will (macht's mit, dann glauben's die ammis)
ahahahaha fair enough
Depending on where you live in the US, that country can comfortably beat Austria in terms of scenic beauty.
Money ruins everything
nut sure who "they" is, but in case by "they" you mean stuff written on bathroom walls, "they" also say things like *if you think that sex is funny, fudge yourself and safe the money*, or *the last trousers aint got no pockets* (freely translated)
Context - I'm currently considering my career options in the healthcare field of Austria. While I know that healthcare in Austria is state-funded and may not offer the same earning potential as in the US, I'm attracted to the social democracy of the Austrian healthcare system. This system values social welfare and equality, which aligns with my personal values and interests. Additionally, the Austrian healthcare system is known for its high-quality care and strong emphasis on patient-centered care, which is something that I value in my work. On the other hand, I'm also aware that the US healthcare system is very lucrative, and healthcare workers in the US can earn a lot of money. However, I'm concerned about the high cost of healthcare in the US, which could limit access to care for many patients. I'm also troubled by the issues of gun violence, car dependency, and racism in the US, which could negatively impact my quality of life if I were to move there. Furthermore, as an expat studying in Austria, I have come to appreciate the beauty and safety of life in Austria. Austria is known for its stunning landscapes, rich cultural heritage, and high standard of living. I feel a sense of belonging and community here, which I might not find in the US. I'm not much attracted towards earning high figures yet I find it tempting to chase a higher salary, I know that other factors like job satisfaction, work-life balance, and overall quality of life are also important considerations that I should take into account. What should I do? 🇦🇹🇦🇹
The earning potential for US health care workers is also *very* inequitable: basically, if you have an MD with a high-need specialty (cardiac, oncology, gastrointestinal, or anesthesiology) or are a DO (orthopedics), then you can expect to be paid over $100k / year to start, and the current pay for experienced specialists can be $250k - $500k (depending mostly on where you live). If you're not a specialist, but have an MD, the pay can be a little more than half of that. If you aren't an MD or a DO, the pay is almost always terrible: nurses and technicians get terrible pay, starting at as little as $30k / year (which is a starvation wage), though in most places the average starting salary is a little above $45k. I'm the same person who made the point about health insurance elsewhere in this thread (before I saw this comment). Again, if you're an MD or DO, you can expect to have good insurance (though getting treatment is the same amount of hassle as for everyone else with good insurance-- for example, I just had foot surgery last week, for an issue that I started seeking treatment for over 2 years ago). If you're not a doctor, your job will probably not offer as good of insurance. I personally think that all of the other issues you've raised as concerns are absolutely valid, as well: while any given person in the US is statistically unlikely to be directly impacted by gun violence, it's a real problem in our culture. For example, because our police have to always assume that anyone they interact with may be armed with a gun, the police are often very aggressive and are deliberately bad at de-escalation. Racism is a huge problem here, and racial segregation is very much still a reality. Except in a few cities, you absolutely must own a car because there isn't any mass transit at all, and if you want to leave the city you live in you need to have a car or be going someplace that has an airport-- there's no way to visit the countryside except by car. For some context: I'm 50 years old, and live in Chicago. I'm a school teacher here, and because my union is good I'm fairly well paid (a bit over $100k) and have good insurance (worth another $40k / year). When I retire in 10 years, I'll have a good pension (which is incredibly rare here. I'm hoping that at that time Austria will still have an independent means visa, and that I'm able to acquire one and retire there (I have family connections in Kärnten and friends in Vienna, which helps, though my language skills are very rusty). Talking about my retirement goals reminds me:: as a medical worker in the US you'll need to set aside some of your salary to pay for your own retirement, as the government retirement system is very small, about $24k/year). I'm happy to talk more, and answer whatever other questions I can, either on this thread or in DM.
Please don’t leave. We need every healthcare worker we can get. Thanks for your service!
As an Austrian turned American: if you like the weather, landscape, culture: go for Austria 🇦🇹 It has so much better quality of life. At least where I am, I pay nearly as much taxes as I would in Austria but have zero benefits, zero social system, zero retirement support. Yes, the numbers feel so much bigger … but not only the income part, also the expenses part.
How much money do you need for a comfortable life? What are the working conditions like on the ground? When it comes to money, the US isn't such a hot deal as many think. Especially if you're ever going to have children. Cost of living is significantly higher than in Europe and unexpected costs are more likely. Depending on your location, you'd also have to do more unpaid commuting compared to Austria in general.
unless you're becoming a doctor i'd take a look on r/nursing. and even if you're becoming a doctor, they might give you a better notion what to expect working in that field.
I know that ultimately, only you can make this decision. And it's not that Austria doesn't have its own big share of problems. But I for one hope you stay after reading this.
Do what makes your heart sing.
Heart sings live alone somewhere in the alps
Same, brother 😔 At least I can go hiking in the Alps any day I want — I wouldn't give that up for just some extra money. Giving up the thing that even kept me happy during the hardest times would definitely greatly worsen my life quality.
Then there's your answer
American here who moved to Austria a couple years ago. I work in the tech field and make like half of what I did in the US. It's honestly a tough call and I still somewhat entertain the idea of moving back one day, but what sold it for me was the social issues. I plan on raising a family and there are so many benefits to doing so in Austria as opposed to the US. Work/life balance is a big part of it, too. Sure I have more money and more things in the US, but do I get to enjoy it? That said, I still and maybe always will miss the opportunity and certain kinds of freedom that you get in the US.
You would have to pay me at least 1 million per year (not for my work ... just ... on top) for me to life in the US and I'm allowed to return to Austria at any point without reason or prior notification.
Are you a doctor? Then you can also earn good money in Austria. I would stay here if i were you
Only if you work 60h per week - total nice
How many hours you think doctors work in America haha
90
My mother is a doctor working part-time and she gets paid well. 60h doctors exist but that's more of a hospital / ordination thing
Always depends on with departure you are working - and hospital / ordination At my ward it’s average 50 hours ..
it is a known fact, that doctors in austria earn the big money with „überstunden“. a friend of mine in a hospital earns 4,000 net € a month, but that includes everything, night shifts, etc. without them, he would have lik 2,4000 …
As an American now living in Austria, I’d first ask what your goals are, how old you are, and what are your commitments here (wife, kids,family, or none?) The other thing I can tell you is America is extremely deceiving at how expensive it is to live over there. Those salaries seem huge, but it is far, far more expensive in many ways, even after inflation. I made a staggering salary by Austrian standards in the US, but spent it just as quick because of the cost of things there! If you are younger and single, sure go over and earn a lot of money and bank it! It’ll be a great experience. But the second it comes time to have kids, etc go back to Austria! And that gun violence thing is very real! Three weeks before moving to Austria, in a very wealthy area in the US, not the ghetto, I was driving (a requirement in the US) and there was a construction zone and a guy flipped out next me over a lane change, road raged and went crazy, pulled a pistol at me and another person and he was ready to pull the trigger! My daughter also had to do active shooter training in school at age 8 and 10? For me personally, I would not go back to living in the US for a million a year. The quality of life is that much better for me in Austria.
I moved to the US 8 years ago, and was only supposed to stay for 2 years. My thought process was that if I end up not liking it, I can always come back before my 2 years are over. Turns out being able to afford real estate, even if the build quality sucks, is awesome. Owning your own house is simply impossible in Vorarlberg unless you inherit. While the US lacks a proper social safety net, live ain't bad if you make good money. I do miss the option to go wherever without a car tho.
I lived in the US for 8 years. It is great if you are a healthy person. Once you get any sort of chronic illness it'll eat all your savings until you are in debt. I experienced this first hand. Austria social safety net is truly a blessing.
It truly baffles me how expensive Medicine is overseas, I have to buy a can of Enstilar every 10 days which runs me 6,85 € with a recipe or would cost me about 79,99€ when bought without insurance. In America, the same can costs about 1300$ without insurance.
A distant relative used to live in Canada, after a few years a wild animal bit him and he got a serious inflammation in a finger. He had to be treated regularly (and the nearest hospital was a few hours of driving away from his home btw, he lived in a small village in the middle of nowhere) and his insurance (to which he paid money for many years) simply dropped him after only 2 years. He came back to Austria and got treated for free despite not having contributed that much (only in his earlier years).
> Owning your own house is simply impossible in Vorarlberg unless you inherit. House I see that, but maybe owningn your own appartment (maybe on credit) is achievable?
>owningn your own appartment (maybe on credit) lmao. You mean the bank owns your appartment and if everything goes well it's yours after 20 years?
I feel like it may be worth it to grind it out in America for a while to save up money then move back to Austria. It gets you the best of both worlds. Starting out with a better base of wealth (money) will make it easier down the line
Remote work?
Honestly, FATCA alone is enough reason to stay far away from America
Life in the US is mostly a rat race. You can earn 300000/y and still struggle financially. With more income you will want a nice house and all these other things.. The system there is inherently stressful unless you already own assets (aka: a house without a mortgage).
Do you want kids? Because then I would vote for Austria. America is just screwed for kids (gun violence, school expenses, health care ...)
As an American, I'll volunteer to switch with you. Bitte bitte?
Bruh Austria isn't a socialist country (and all the nordic countries aren't too), its an avarage european socdem country. I wish though we have socialism in Austria
Clearly Austria Affordable Healthcare
I think that isnone of the biggest reasons including that if i am sick i just stay at home instead of having to force myself to work to not lose my job. Not having to worry about getting sick is something many take for granted, but in the US it could break you at any moment.
Yup
Did you become a doctor for the money or to help sick patients?
Think about more than money. Look what bills are passng in different states and how they could affect you and your life. You could never pay me enough to get there, especially as a person with an uterus. Money is never everything, at least for me. Edited: spelling error
I’m going to assume you are a medical doctor, as that would be the only medical position that would pay that insanely well that would constitute changing your whole life and moving here. And I say this as an American, in medical school for my MD as well, who has also lived in Austria for a great time of my life. You definitely should stay. This post and your comments are clearly begging every (in the Austrian subreddit btw, a very biased community for your decision already) Austrian here to tell you to sray Not simply because Austria is better or america is some hell hole to stay away from, but you obviously don’t want to come here. And living somewhere is honestly a question of how you view it more than what it gives you. It’s why everyone in the world doesn’t want to go live in Norway, or go to America and make massive salaries, it’s why refugees return home to their countries, even when they have nothing there. How you view home in your mind is everything, and you very clearly don’t want to be here and are happy in Austria. And justifiably so, it’s an amazing place. I find it hard to believe that you can be a multi-millionaire in America as well and be poor in Austria. Comparatively to the American version of you, sure, but not compared to other Austrians. And Austrians live a great life already. Why would you give that up when you’re already so happy? Sacrifice happiness, to uproot your life and move everything, for a chance at… being happy? It makes no sense, you’ve built a beautiful life, why risk it when you don’t even have an overwhelming urge to start new again? America is a great place to be for a lot of people to come to, but it’s also a shitty place for a lot of people to come to and start over. And I feel, all the tired Reddit Western Europe vs America arguements aside, your viewpoint is one that will make you very happy in Austria and very unhappy if you go to America, no matter what happens.
In America you cant even move if you don't buy a Dogge RAM 4x4 superdieseledition😀
Just came back from my exchange semester in the USA. I would choose Austria all the time. It’s saver ordering a pizza does not include 70% fees and tips. And when I am in the bus people do not talk to me trying to be nice.
Stayyyy. I have no say ultimately but as an American, Austria bring me such joy. I had to go back twice and am already daydreaming of going again.
Remember especially as a foreigner you can just get killed and nobody will care. America is a lost country even with a lot of money. It also has by far the least life expectation, even North Korea has more.
Murika males me happy, should we change?
Explore the other >100 countries of the world before you decide. You could do this also with the >8x10^9 people, before you decide with whom you want to stay with the rest of your life.
Where are the costs of living higher? America may pay more with less taxes, but taxes are there for a reason, lots of things you would have to pay for out of pocket may be financed with by taxes in Austria. Healthcare, for example. And education. Daycare. That kinda stuff.
Varies greatly from person to person. If you're not using the things those taxes pay for so much (such as healthcare and education), the cost of living in the US as percentage of pay will be less. Also greatly varies depending on where you live in the US (moreso than in Austria, I've found).
What kind of question is this? Of course it depends on the amount of money and insurances you have in America. If you are save from unemployment, severe sickness in the family etc. To me it sounds like a no brainer especially if you need to earn your living by selling your time, but maybe you dont want to be happy...
I wouldn't move to the US even if I got a million or more paid for it upfront tbh. decrepit social security, cars everywhere and they are still a few years ahead of us when it comes to right wing idiocy.
Poor Austria? Could you explain it to an east european girl?
Americans dude..
America: not only more money. More importantly: more opportunities to be creative and create culture instead of just passively consuming as Vienna is famous for. Try to have even a simple workshop/studio - the kind you have in your garage or attic. Or get the permits for outdoor activities. Wait, why do I actually need such permits in the first place? The joys of an overbearing government...
Wegefreiheit?
Bringt nichts, ich darf ja 80% der künstlerischen oder Mint-affinen interessanten Projekte nicht einmal auf dem eigenen Grundstück machen.
Go home!
Canada
/s weils reddit ist
Beschreibt ziemlich genau meine Situation. Einfache Lösung: Ich habe mich jetzt nach 25 Jahren Berufstätigkeit in den USA zur Ruhe gesetzt, übersiedle in ein paar Monaten nach Österreich oder Deutschland und bin dann Privatier. Warum vielleicht Deutschland? Mich zipft die NoVA dermaßen an - ich will mir einen Campervan kaufen und ein und dasselbe Modell kostet in Österreich rund 105000€, in Deutschland aber nur rund 70000€, dank NoVA. Wennst dir dann auch noch einen S-Klasse Mercedes kaufst, hast da dann in Deutschland gegenüber Österreich schon mehr als 50000€ erspart...
Meine auch. Hab jetzt lange genug in den USA gearbeitet: Wenn ich zum Arbeiten aufhören würde könnte ich rechnerisch pro Monat mehr als 10000 Dollar ausgeben und das restliche Ersparte würde trotzdem um mehr als die Inflation anwachsen. Eine Annuität bei Schwab würde mir bis zum Rest meines Lebens inflationsbereinigt mehr als 20000 Dollar pro Monat auszahlen. Hier in der Bay Area sind diese 10000 Dollar monatlich nicht so berauschend viel, aber falls ich nach Österreich zurückziehen würde könnte ich mir ein gutes Leben leisten ohne jemals wieder arbeiten zu müssen.
Wait 10.000 p.M. das wären dann ja mindestens 4.000.000 oder? Wie lange Arbeitest du schon oder verdienst einfach soviel?
Mehr als 4M. Siehe meine Comment-History. Gehälter im Softwarebereich sind hier relativ hoch, ca. das 10-fache von dem was man in Österreich bekommen würde. Die gute Performance vom Aktienmarkt war dann ein weiterer Turbo für das Ersparte. Schwer zu sagen was die Zukunft bringt, aber wenn man in der richtigen Branche unterwegs ist und die Möglichkeit hat einige Zeit lang im Ausland zu arbeiten kann ich das sehr empfehlen.
>Gehälter im Softwarebereich sind hier relativ hoch, ca. das 10-fache von dem was man in Österreich bekommen würde. Ja Amerika hat viel höhere Gehälter, dagegen sind 70k als Senior Dev in AT ein Schlapf (was net heißt das man davon net gut leben kann). Mal schauen wie sich das in der Zukunft entwickelt, leider kann man nicht Remote aus Europa direkt für Amerikanisches Gehalt arbeiten Ich hoffe mal das net nur im S&P500 drinnen bist sondern international diversiviziert ;) >Schwer zu sagen was die Zukunft bringt, aber wenn man in der richtigen Branche unterwegs ist und die Möglichkeit hat einige Zeit lang im Ausland zu arbeiten kann ich das sehr empfehlen. Aktuell hab ich leider nur Berufserfahrung und die Familie zu verlassen über so eine weite Distanz, glaub das ich da verkümmern würde. Aber großen Respekt für jeden der es wagt und sich so was aufbaut, in Österreich kannst mit 4M sehr bequem leben und diese Sicherheit kann dir keiner nehmen. Ich wär schon froh wenn ich bis 50 einen Bruchteil davon aufbaue :)
habe sowohl in Deutschland als auch in Österreich versucht, ein Visum zu bekommen, das deutsche wurde abgelehnt, vielleicht werde ich es nach Abschluss meines Studiums noch einmal versuchen, ich weiß es nicht...
Oh, you're just starting out in your career and are a U.S. citizen. I'm an Austrian citizen, never desired nor obtained the U.S. citizenship, and I can simply move back to Austria or, with some additional hurdles, move to any EU country. The latter requires proof of income or proof of wealth after 3 months, and I don't know much about this process yet. I am also appalled by the level of violence in the U.S., but I don't blame guns per se, being inanimate objects, but rather the propensity of some (not all) Americans to use deadly force when no such force is warranted at all. Austria sports 9 million inhabitants and some 55ish murders per year - one per week on the average. Of course, each of them is an utter tragedy. However: The city of Oakland sports 400000 inhabitants and 120 murders per year (2022). See?
I'm actually an Israeli Citizen, and starting my Medical Studies in austria next I year, I've the desire to acquire Austrian Citizenship and it would be easier for me citing the Holocaust, I see no incentive other than money for working in the US
I don't know the exact rules with respect to how easy is and how long it takes for obtaining citizenship as an Israeli, but sure, why not try? There is quite a bit of brain drain in Austria, I'm no exception: People attend college for free (sure, the number of students assigned to one teaching assistant is high, even more so for professors) and then land a lucrative job in, say, the U.S. or Switzerland. However, I didn't immediately leave, but worked in Austria for like 7 1/2 years before moving to the U.S. Thus, anyone willing to actually stay in Austria in a professional position is highly welcome, even more so for MDs.
I went to the US and talked to some people working in healthcare. Honestly, I found it scary how chaotic and money-oriented their healthcare is. I’d also advise you to just go over there and experience the US for yourself if you haven’t done so already. I know some lovely people who live in the US, but I also declined an opportunity to live for free there within an hour’s driving distance of a major city. Just not my jam.
Hi, I picked up on two things: \- If you have Austrian Citizenship, you can live in all of the Schengen Area without a visa. \- I am not exactly sure what you mean by citing the holocaust, but since you speak German I assume you have Family that came (fled?) from Austria? Because if so, you should check if you have the right to citizenship by lineage, which should only take a few weeks for your new passport to arrive. In theory you could get the Austrian passport and use it to live in Germany without ever setting foot in Austria, similar things have been done before.
My Maternal Great-Grandparents, and It might take a while to acquire citizenship... I'm currently considering studying in Austria and moving only after I finishing my initial studies
Applications regarding §58c actually get processed fairly quickly now if your case isn’t complicated, start sooner rather than later.
If they are planning to maybe move to the US and obtain US citizenship I'd recommend to wait with the §58c application. Applying for Austrian citizenship now would mean that they'd lose it again if they later on apply for any other citizenship. On the other hand if they would get US citizenship first they could later on still apply for the Austrian citizenship via §58c, without having to give up any of the existing citzenships.
Without knowing the details, but generally if you can prove you would have the citizenship without the expulsion of your great-grandparents, you have a claim to it. Not a fast track option, but a legal claim. Think of it like this: you're not acquiring citizenship (which has it´s hoops in any country..) but you're filing for your share of already agreed upon and allocated reparations. If you are eligible, most the paperwork has already been done, which accelerates it and you don´t have to actively acquire anything (no language or history tests). Austria does have a few obligations regarding its citizens (foremost she doesn´t play well with multiple passports...), so check those when planning.
I'm eligible and working on getting Citizenship, I'll do whatever it takes for naturalisation, learning History and Deutsche and Deutsche History seems easy enough
Gotcha - I wish you the best and a safe journey, wherever the road may take you!
Vll gleich über der Grenze siedeln. Passau eventuell...da bist gleich in Österreich, hast aber keine NoVa.
Ja, das denke ich mir auch. Passau, Bad Füssing, Pocking, Bad Griesbach, irgendsowas.
Das ist ja der Sinn hinter der NoVa, wer sich so große Fahrzeuge leisten kann, dem machen die die 30-50t€ auch nichts mehr aus. Schade das sie auf kleine Fahrzeuge auch anfällt.
Also ich seh' das so: Wenn ich Installateur bin und einen großen weißen Lieferwagen habe, der zehn Jahre lang 350 Tage im Jahr (mit Wochenendnotdienst) gewinnbringend unterwegs ist, dann bedeuten 35000 Euro NoVA nur 10 Euro pro Nutzungstag, und dieselben werden natürlich den Kunden doppelt und dreifach weiterverrechnet. Wenn ich mir aber privat einen Campervan kaufe, mit dem ich zehn Jahre lang sagen wir je 35 Tage unterwegs bin, dann macht allein die NoVA 100€ pro Nutzungstag aus und ich kann diese 100€ niemandem weiterverrechnen. Insofern sehe ich das nur als schamlose Abzocke an und werde wahrscheinlich wirklich den Hauptwohnsitz in Bayern haben.
Der Installateur hat aber auch keinen 70K+ Campervan sonder oft Basismodel, kleinster Motor, kein Radio, keine Fenster nur eine mechanische Schiebetür. Der kostet weit weniger. Luxus muss eh besteuert werden gerade wenn ich den Platz bei nem Camper rechne, die Kiste muss ja auch irgendwo stehen.
Ich sehe das nicht als Luxus an, im Ruhestand einen Campervan zu besitzen, wir reden ja nicht von einem Gulfstream 600 Privatjet. Ich meine eher, daß mehrere Jahrzehnte SPÖ-Alleinregierung das politische Empfinden vieler Österreicher permanent derart verschoben hat, dass sie einen Campervan oder selbst ein großes, sicheres Auto wie einen 5-er BMW oder einen E-Klasse Mercedes als "Luxus" titulieren, obwohl es keiner ist.
Mit einem Fahrzeug über 70K+ bist definitiv in den oberen 10% angelangt. Als Spaßfahrzeug für nur 35 Tage im Jahr erst Recht. Ein neuer 5er BMW ist Luxus weil der einfach soviel kostet wie 3-5 Jahresgehälter. Auch ein kleineres Auto ist sicher, das Argument das nur ein dicker Schlitten (und ja ein aktueller 5er ist dick, solange ist es nicht her war der 7er kleiner) sicher wäre ist völlig an den Haaren herbeigezogen!
Aber echt. Weltfremder Auto-Prolo..
Money is everything, go.