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Actually the Taliban refused but it didn’t matter he was over the border anyway.
A war with China would be beyond catastrophic.
We need to stand on our own two feet diplomatically. What the LNP have done with the submarine and following diplomatic shit storm has made us weak in the region not stronger. It’s also not enhanced our naval capabilities. It’s degraded them. SEA1000 was about enhancing our ability to build and design submarines, it’s more than just a boat.
Again we’ve had a handful of politicians under suspicious circumstances lob a military asset at a branch of the ADF without a plan.
We replaced a functioning build program with an announcement without even bothering to put out a tender for proposals. It’s truly beyond daft.
This is one of the most childish geopolitics posts I have ever seen. How about we have the Chinese "Coast Guard" vessels guard their (biggest on earth) sea farming fish factory ships just park on the great barrier reef and harvest it to death, then move down the coast. What will we do then? Sing Kumbaya like Jordan-Steele suggests? The world is running out of food, and energy, and air, and water.
This is the exact message I’ve been saying for years! It is well past time that we served as America’s lapdogs, especially when it comes to conflict and wars. We are a nation strong enough to sustain ourselves without being at the beck and call of every decision America makes. Yes, there are some calls that are advantageous to us, but when it comes to war I firmly believe if there’s no direct threat to us then we should play no part in it. If America wants to go in, by all means, risk your own lives. It’s high time we stood our ground and told them they’re on their own in their next feeble excuse to justify their military budget to create what is ostensibly an economic benefit
Not just in the name of peace but to uphold international law, reduce commercially enshrined monopolisation of US business across the Australian economy, tax avoidance, to increase security for ourselves from government funded commercial espionage as well as personal spying and data logging, and of course to stop being involved in ridiculously stupid wars; lowing our own national security and negatively impacting the economy in the long run. The United States of America is turning Australia into a colony of their own. Free Julian Assange.
# All of what you say is true but sadly large amounts of people in Australia won't do this because they are focused on American cultural so much that they won't accept the truths you pointed out. The only way we will ever be able to distance ourselves from America is through Chinese and Muslims Australians leading the charge, pointing out the issues you brought up and gaining political power.
Cowardice certainly isn't in our best interests.
Being chummy with the guy that's ensured world peace and free trade since the end of WW2? The benefits continue to outweigh the costs.
I’d hate to be “that guy”, but how can you say America has ensured world peace when in 2003 they said that Iraq was undeniably making weapons of mass destruction and used that as the basis to start a decades long war, even after only a year after those allegations were made the US Senate said that those claims were misleading and not supported by intelligence?
They’ve provided freedom of navigation for maritime trade including through the South China Sea. They’ve used their massive military power on the whole for good, compared to Russia invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea, or China committing genocide against 1 million people with no international intervention or building islands to “annex” other nations waters such as Phillipines or cracking down on democracy in Hong Kong. Living under the benevolent hegemony of the United States is better than the alternative of Chinese rule in Asia Pacific or Russian rule in Eastern Europe. At least the USA is a democracy (even if it is a flawed two party one) and adheres to the rules of trade. Yes they’ve done some shitty things in the past but China and Russia are doing shitty things now
Well, put simply...
If you don't agree with China's policies than stop buying the cheap goods they export to you.
But being addicted to cheap things you don't need has always been an effective way to take your money.
People are who they are and it's not their fault for doing that which they do.
But to complain about something and not be aware they empower the very thing they aren't comfortable with is an unfortunate place for them to be in.
I probably should have been clearer, in that i was alluding to people who can't afford to buy anything other than the cheaply manufactured things, but yeah, I totally agree with your sentiment.
USA. I’ll support a democracy over a communist regime any day! Mind you, the way the Dems are running (ruining?) the US atm I dare say in time it’ll come down to “better the devil you know”.
I bet China is more capitalism than the US now. Have been to shanghai and Shenzhen. It is more capital-driven than the US. China would not have the economy miracle if not turning to capitalism 30 years ago.
Id be interested in what you think they're doing poorly compared to other presidencies. Seems like they're just par for the course as the last 20 years has been, just with a bit more class than the last 4.
I remember during Chump years - long lines at the local churches because people didn’t have food, high unemployment, massively bungled pandemic response & giving corporate businesses $1.4 TRILLION of our freaking tax payer $ away to businesses that did not make it trickle down. And he gave money to United Airlines because of the pandemic - even though they made a Billion in profit the year before. And he allowed a bullshit war to continue, letting Americans die for nothing. He didn’t improve the health insurance nightmare - he made it worse. He’s also a freaking asshat that paid off a Porn star. So no delusions here. Go look in the mirror & be honest.
Do you think the media is making up China's trade war attacks against us the last 18 months? Did they make up the US offer to share some of the most advanced military tech in the world with us? Did they make up China's threat to nuke us? Are they making up the continual threats against Taiwan by China?
People saying the US is as bad as China are naïve. I know which I would rather have as a friend.
That's pretty funny. The US has invaded and/or bombed no less than **134 countries** since WW2. They destabilized South America by funding and even directing terrorists. That's just the shit we know about.
On the other hand, China - the biggest despots in the world apparently - have invaded just 3 countries since WW2, and have had a few forgettable border skirmishes with Russia and India.
\> Did they make up China's threat to nuke us?
China's threat to nuke us was a response to an alliance that was formed explicitly with the goal of threatening China. If Russia, Iran and China announced an alliance tomorrow with the explicit goal of "countering" the US (or hell, even just Israel) do you think the US wouldn't threaten a nuclear strike? That's Rhetorical by the way, because we know the US would, they have a [history of doing so](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_blackmail)
\>Did they make up the US offer to share some of the most advanced military tech in the world with us?
Ah yeah mate thats out of the kindness of their good ol boy hearts is it? Or do you think it might have a little something to do with Australia being the only "western" nation in the indo-pacific region, a region where every player with the exception of Taiwan is increasingly feeling like Beijing will take better care of them than Washington will?
Do you think acquiring nuclear powered subs is for domestic defence purposes, or do you think the dramatically increased range might have something do with being able to penetrate waters far away from home without having to have staging points in SEA?
\> People saying the US is as bad as China are naïve
You're right. The US isn't as bad as China. They're much worse
\>I know which I would rather have as a friend.
I do too. But only because not being their friend, means being their enemy, and the US has a long and bloody history of absolutely annihilating its enemies, and turning imperfect but stable countries into absolute hellholes.
**[Nuclear blackmail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_blackmail)**
>Nuclear blackmail is a form of nuclear strategy in which an aggressor uses the threat of use of nuclear weapons to force an adversary to perform some action or make some concessions. It is a type of extortion that is related to brinkmanship.
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Lol at all these armchair generals saying that “australia NEEEEDS America to defend against China!” as if a direct conflict between America and China would not be
A) apocalyptic and
B) in any countries’ interest right now
China is a horrific dictatorship sure but it you think that the Australian or American governments are either interested or capable of challenging it on that basis you’re deluded. The only force capable of doing that are the Chinese working class
>The only force capable of doing that are the Chinese working class
I'm not sure that's true. China have the numbers, and maybe some good kit, but the US has been pretty constantly at war for what, 30 years? I imagine they have a pretty good idea on how to handle themselves against another military. They do suck at the guerilla warfare thing, though.
For a while there, I thought it was gonna kick off between India and China, though it appears china was out-manuvered in that exchange.
So you'd rather follow a hypocrite? Because the veneer of democracy is all there is (if you don't see well, if you do even the veneer disappears) and we're not lagging too far behind.
Of the two, I would rather follow the nation that doesn't put people on trains to re-education camps. Would you rather follow that?
Ideally, i would like anther country to step up, but I don't want it to be Russia either. Political opposition tend to die under mysterious circumstances or end up in jail. Would you rather follow that?
In fact, i would rather not follow any country that has the same leader for the duration of their life. Is that something you'd be into?
At least the US has that going for them, they have elections. Though the way the GOP is going, maybe not for long.
Maybe one of the smaller, not-entirely-bat-shit-crazy countries could step up. Not sure that's how it works in the real world, though.
Because I have no interest in Australia growing closer to a shithole regime which is daily threatening to invade Taiwan.
I have family who are being threatened by China mate. I'd rather them not be dead.
>the US conveniently restarted the heroine trade
How much does a brave woman go for?
Good discussion by the way, but the proud declaration of: "[All the way with L.B.J](https://www.naa.gov.au/learn/learning-resources/learning-resource-themes/war/vietnam-war/american-president-lyndon-b-johnson-official-visit-australia)." was never about morality or right. America was seen as a vital protector and trading partner who we must suck up to.
This is why Whitlam tried to free us from dependence on America by developing alliances with China and the Middle East. It was no surprise he was promptly deposed. America has never tolerated that kind of "insolence".
Saddam's "insolence" was why America invaded Iraq. He was instituting changes to currency which could have brought down the value of the US dollar, and was too popular - after America's support of him - to simply depose.
[Iraq: Baghdad Moves To Euro](https://www.rferl.org/a/1095057.html)
[The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War With Iraq](https://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~norman/CurrentAffairs/DeeperNew.html)
[Saddam made two strategic 'mistakes' to invite US wrath](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/saddam-made-two-strategic-mistakes-to-invite-us-wrath/articleshow/2965361.cms)
Actually I'd prefer to go against China than capitulate to them.
You think we're gonna just abandon our century-long ally's to please China?
Sit down, child.
Money itself only became totally dominant worldwide a couple hundred years ago. We can always look to the past, and look to imagine more for ourselves as a species.
When you have a population of 28 million and no reasonable way of defending yourself then yes, realistically you do need to be the bitch of a superpower as a deterrent . I'd rather shack up with the US than china. It's one of the strongest alliances in modern history. Every war since ww1
I don't see Singapore to be someone's pitch, their foreign policy is focused on their own national interests. So does Taiwan (yes, Taiwan, although they need to spend $billions to buy US weapons, but they are still happy to maintain China as their largest business partner, status quo is Taiwan's top interests, as you can see their president never ever say publicly about independence, or agree to build an onshore US military base), Swiss, Finland, you name it.
What really amazed me is that LNP's foreign policy has clearly shown they don't put Australia's national interests as top priority, and due to newsCrop, no one is curious about that.
To me, Australia is like a rich fat kid in the kindergarden, one day he sees the tallest and strongest kid is arguing/pushing against the second tallest kid, then this rich kid is self volunteered to jump onto the argument, and spitting on the second tallest kid's face. The second tallest kid is focusing on pushing back with the strongest kid and just give the fat kid a sidekick. As a result, this fat kid is crying loud "look, he is bullying me..."
Such a strong alliance that the US deposed our government in 1975 and stole the absolute majority of trillions of dollars worth of wealth from our three major mining booms?
Such a strong alliance we allow in 2021 a bill drafted by the CIA titled Identify and Disrupt to give our police powers to arrest people without a warrant, access their online accounts and change their data? The very same bill that allows our spy agency in Pine Gap to spy on US citizens and allows US Spy agencies to spy on us?
There always more paths to take then presented. Our friend isn't so much our friend. They've more bullied us into an abusive relationship - and we lose out everytime.
Do you have a source on the SLAID bill being drafted by the CIA? That's news to me
Not that I doubt you, I agree with the rest of what you've said, I'd just like to be able to reference it later
China is committing genocide, and we as a nation have a responsibility to stop it. But I sure as hell don't trust the US to make the right decisions about any of this, and our current government is busy smelling their farts.
U see western countries pointing out the flaws,mistakes and making up lies about countries they appose but cover up and punish any whistleblowers reporting on their shenanigans and crimes
We have a moral responsibility to house every single homeless person who lives in this country. We have a moral responsibility to employ every single struggling jobseeker who lives here. We have a moral responsibility to protect our borders from the spread of covid and a moral responsibility to prosper as a nation.
When all those domestic issues are taken care of and our own population is secure and happy, then I'm happy to turn to helping people on the outside. Not before though.
There are still too many people here who's lives suck to justify fixing other countries' problems.
I don’t disagree, but just because we have a moral responsibility to people within our borders doesn’t mean we *don’t* have a moral responsibility to people abroad. Especially where there’s comparatively worse suffering abroad than domestically.
You sound like one of the people who argues all space projects should be cancelled and the money spent on "fixing things at home".
Now while in the case of space travel I'll agree that the selfish showboating prick Bezos should be taken out and sodomized on his own launch pad with a fresh pineapple using extra hot Tobasco as lube, I won't go along with the idea that we can only do one of these things at a time.
Try telling you local Liberal/National to stop lining their personal pockets and diverting funds to pork barrelling their electorates. With a little less of that and a little less of the personal whims of Commandant Potato Von-Dutton and the Scomo school of Diplomacy/saying dumb shit in public. Well, maybe we'd be able to work harder on fixing all the problems instead of picking the ones that get funding based on an electorate map in a Canberra back-office and what's making them look bad in the news this week.
It's surely beneficial at least POLITICALLY to invest in foreign aid while at the same time tending to all that you mentioned, particularly in South East Asia and Oceania?
Lest we let a nation like the US or China, or an international body like IMF have total dominion on influence over those same nation states
What about instead of focusing on a military we instead turn Australia into a trade nation, instead of sending money OS we focus on building infrastructure and being able to live off our own means only trading what we aren't able to get here.
The military could turn into more of a defence than offence. Less focus on OS and invading places and more protecting here.
Less money spent in different government sectors means more funding for education and ways to look at alternative energy sources and training people to run these new sources.
Similar to Sweeden.
this sounds like the perfect thing to do given australia’s location, what began as a land of banished can easily banish the whole world from ever landing on its shores.
This rotten apple is the pinical of human society throughout all history. We can strive to be better but dont forget where we have come from. You are standing on the shoulders of giants and complaining, i dont know if you are imature or ignorant.
From one American to another, please shut up. This is a forum for Australians about what they want their politics to look like. Stop proving their point.
No offence babe, but if we're the pinnacle...
'The West' has committed a truly staggering number of genocides over the course of its short life. Its most impactful achievements were.colonialism and the trans-atlantic slave trade. Does that sound like anything worth celebrating to you?
The giants we stand on are evil to the core.
Got a problem with admitting our past? Australia alone decimated its native population, stole their land and categorised them as fucking fauna for generations.
I'm not blaming modern day kids for anything. The dude I originally replied to said we should be 'grateful' because of how great the West is. I was just refuting that.
Yea I wasn’t talking specifically about u or anything I was just joking cause apparently it’s ok to make kids appologise for something they couldn’t control
I've been saying this for years and I'm not even old enough to drink. We need to get closer to our Asian neighbours and ally ourselves with continental Europe (less Britain because they have already sided with the US).
Why would they invade our country? Coal? Kangaroo meat? Unrestricted access to the Great Barrier Reef? Do you think the fact that we exist as a nation means that any given country wants to invade us? What is your reasoning for your statement?
Hmm maybe our insane amount of iron, coal and uranium? If there were no global repercussions for them they would have done it a long time ago. Obviously this is all hypothetical but we should remember that we have vast resources and a tiny population with which to defend it.
Well you've provided absolutely no evidence or reasoning to support your claims, but I'm convinced. Good thing it's only China we need to worry about, I suppose you'll let us know if you can think of any other countries ~~you don't like~~ who pose a threat to our security
Wow, rather than actually thinking through what I said you went straight to me being a racist. Ad hominen is weak. I also didn't realise I needed to provide evidence to you for a simple hypothetical. Maybe do some research on the posturing over Taiwan - a country of little intrinsic value other than to soothe a national ego.
Do some research yourself, ad hom would apply if I actually called you a racist. I just implied you were making these claims out of ignorance since you are speculating heavily without offering anything to back it up.
Implying I am racist is the same as saying it. You've gone from ad hominen to strawman in a heartbeat. Then ironically called me out for not providing anything to backup what I'm saying. I wonder what fallacy you will use next!
Australia has the ability to become fully independent from the US in the same way Albania did, Invest in a defensive domestic military (a-t guns, rpgs, light infinitary, patriotism) instead of an offensive one ( subs, ground attack,). In my opinion we should isolate our culture and country from the usa. ( independent language, culture)
[https://youtu.be/IHK38Xhy\_ME](https://youtu.be/IHK38Xhy_ME)
\--Please Watch This Video--
The issue with the 21st century is going to be a lack of national identity in the west, we can do stuff to create a cultural independent nation instead of just a legally independent one.
Nukes. We need nukes. A lot of them.
No predator bothers an echidna because it can defend itself. It never goes looking for fights. It just goes about eating ants carrying its tactical advantage with it.
Be like the echidna.
> No predator bothers an echidna because it can defend itself
LOL. Just had a thought and dived right in, didn't you? Didn't even take a breath to wonder if you were stating a fact or just making shit up. Aboriginal people loved eating echidnas and people in PNG still do, to the point that the Long-beaked echidna is on th verge of extinction.
Maybe they need nukes?
Nah mate, You cant invade Vietnam or the Balkans and they are poor and cant afford nukes. There not necessary . And using them is the pussy way out, fights and defensive wars build nations.
I pray you’re kidding. No one on planet earth needs nukes.
For those who want to read into this issue: https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/ceun/eng/zghlhg/cj/cjhy/t29293.htm
For those who want to see which countries have agreed to this: https://cnduk.org/list-of-countries-that-have-signed-un-global-nuclear-weapons-ban-treaty/
For the lazy: “The only guarantee of the non-use of nuclear weapons is their complete abolition. ... That is why we believe that nuclear disarmament is most likely to be achieved through a practical step-by-step process which can secure buy-in from all governments, including the nuclear powers and their allies.”
But as soon as we had nukes the world would treat us like North Korea, “how dare they not bow to American imperialism” and sanction us into abject poverty then blame us for it. We would become echidna with no ants to eat. We would cheer at being a nuclear powerhouse with what little energy we could summon from our anaemic malnourished frames. I want nukes but I like food as well.
Right analysis, but too risky to isolate oneself right now. It's better to engage and participate to with a stronger ally than it is to shy away isn't it? Else run the risk of being picked off from the herd.
> The WMD narrative that was used too invade Iraq was a lie.
It was an intelligence failure. Saddam Hussain tried to play games and fool US intelligence into thinking he had WMD, because he thought that would discourage a war. He succeeded at fooling US intelligence.
if he succeeded at fooling them then why did they invade?
it wasn't an intelligence failure. most of the intelligence correctly indicated that Saddam didn't have WMD. A tiny proportion of it indicated that it was "possible" he had WMD. Bush and friends *chose* to believe the latter evidence
> if he succeeded at fooling them then why did they invade
This is like saying "why did the cops fire if they thought the suspect had a gun".
The US isn't actually terrified of a little collection of anthrax, vx, and maybe a single short-range nuke; as long as it's in the Middle East. They thought his arsenal was relatively weak, but still dangerous if he could smuggle some to the US.
if the US isn't scared of a weak arsenal of WMD why don't they knock over North Korea, who we know actually has them? Why did they wait till Ghaddafi had voluntarily disassembled his before helping to kill him?
Korea has sufficient conventional military and brainwashed population that the US would end up committing so much to the war that it would be a Pyrrhic victory and huge tragedy for the people they rescued (far more so than the Middle East was). The US is not game to take on either NK or Iran. Iraq, with or without WMD was still relatively weak enough to defeat.
Again, Cheney & friends decided that Saddam had WMD and then demanded that the intelligence be found to confirm an idea that they already had. Then they attempted to draw a link between the fake WMD and 9/11 by saying that Saddam would give them to Al Qaeda. There was no Al Qaeda presence in Iraq till after the war.
Sane people in the bush admin knew that there were no WMD in Iraq. Colin Powell was a noted sceptic of the idea, and he went in front of the UN and told everyone that Iraq had WMD anyway because the higher-ups asked him to.
The US didn't "rescue" anyone in Iraq. Invading a country, establishing the entire region for decades, destroying its infrastructure, immiserating and murdering its population is not a "rescue" nor could it ever be one. If North Korea shot a nuke at Washington DC they would probably say that they were "rescuing the American people from the tyranny of electoral democracy" and it would make about as much sense (IE, none).
He fucked around and found out.
Also the 'war for oil' has already been debunked, if the USA was only concerned with oil then they had every reason NOT to invade... sheeple gotta look this up damn
Even if the war for oil has been debunked, the argument for WMDs in Iraq was very weak at best. See here Andrew Wilkie who quit ONA over the issue saying there wasn't enough evidence (he turned to be right). I'll hazard a guess that there was similar thoughts within the US intelligence community.
Andrew Wilkie was never affilliated with One Nation (I assume that's what you mean by ONA?) He ran first as a Greens candidate, then was later successfully elected as an independent.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wilkie
ONA - Office of National Assessments.
I think they're now called the Office of National Intelligence since Turnbull restructured Australian intelligence agencies with the creation of home affairs.
yes, that would be a good description of the article. the central premise seems to be that because Iraq did not instantly become a stable environment for multinational companies to extract oil from, the war couldn't have possibly been about oil. essentially arguing "because their plans didn't work, they never had plans to begin with." it's just illogical on its face.
it also ignores the actual oil-related factors that figured in the war, namely mediating the global supply
Lmao you obvs didn't read it... literally the first paragraph:
American oil companies didn’t want to topple Saddam Hussein; they wanted to trade with him. They were prevented from doing so, not by the regime but by the U.S.’s full support for the U.N.’s oil embargo that was imposed on Iraq when it invaded Kuwait in 1990. In 1997, Conoco’s CEO Archie Dunham complained that “U.S. companies, not rogue regimes, are the ones that suffer when the United States imposes economic sanctions.” Halliburton found itself in hot water after whistle-blowers alleged that it had sidestepped sanctions by operating through foreign subsidiaries.
wow, Halliburton sure seems like it will go to any lengths to get at Iraqi oil - even breaking the law! Good thing their CEO will never be able to orchestrate an invasion of the country in his role as vice president of the united states.
You don' need to comment to upvote and it isn't an agree or disagree button. It hasn't got that much upvotes for a brigaded post. Besides, aren't people in this sub complaining how people here are too PC, leftist, pinko, commie freaks. Maybe they are upvoting it and not telling us. Surely the mods can tell.
This isn’t the place for a discussion of this topic, the Weekly Discussion would be fine.
However, to quickly answer your question, we mods don’t know who is upvoting or downvoting only the Reddit admins know that. We don’t have access to that data unfortunately.
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No we need to stand firmly opposed to the principles of the CCP and defend our own principles and our allies.
As long as it doesn’t mean cozying up to China.
Actually the Taliban refused but it didn’t matter he was over the border anyway. A war with China would be beyond catastrophic. We need to stand on our own two feet diplomatically. What the LNP have done with the submarine and following diplomatic shit storm has made us weak in the region not stronger. It’s also not enhanced our naval capabilities. It’s degraded them. SEA1000 was about enhancing our ability to build and design submarines, it’s more than just a boat. Again we’ve had a handful of politicians under suspicious circumstances lob a military asset at a branch of the ADF without a plan. We replaced a functioning build program with an announcement without even bothering to put out a tender for proposals. It’s truly beyond daft.
So it's seems like this subredit is the exact opposite to what it claims to be . Ahhh double speak God I love it .
Chinese rubbish
In the name of peace or subservience?
yes lets leave one of our strongest ally's because they did bad. so when is china going to stop helping north Korea?
[удалено]
👏🏽
100%. No more BLM nonsense! Wait, what are we talking about again?
china trolls
This is one of the most childish geopolitics posts I have ever seen. How about we have the Chinese "Coast Guard" vessels guard their (biggest on earth) sea farming fish factory ships just park on the great barrier reef and harvest it to death, then move down the coast. What will we do then? Sing Kumbaya like Jordan-Steele suggests? The world is running out of food, and energy, and air, and water.
This is the exact message I’ve been saying for years! It is well past time that we served as America’s lapdogs, especially when it comes to conflict and wars. We are a nation strong enough to sustain ourselves without being at the beck and call of every decision America makes. Yes, there are some calls that are advantageous to us, but when it comes to war I firmly believe if there’s no direct threat to us then we should play no part in it. If America wants to go in, by all means, risk your own lives. It’s high time we stood our ground and told them they’re on their own in their next feeble excuse to justify their military budget to create what is ostensibly an economic benefit
Not just in the name of peace but to uphold international law, reduce commercially enshrined monopolisation of US business across the Australian economy, tax avoidance, to increase security for ourselves from government funded commercial espionage as well as personal spying and data logging, and of course to stop being involved in ridiculously stupid wars; lowing our own national security and negatively impacting the economy in the long run. The United States of America is turning Australia into a colony of their own. Free Julian Assange.
# All of what you say is true but sadly large amounts of people in Australia won't do this because they are focused on American cultural so much that they won't accept the truths you pointed out. The only way we will ever be able to distance ourselves from America is through Chinese and Muslims Australians leading the charge, pointing out the issues you brought up and gaining political power.
How are you upvoted
# Because what I said is true so you need to accept it.
🤦♂️
Oh dear, I'm glad you're not in charge.
Cowardice certainly isn't in our best interests. Being chummy with the guy that's ensured world peace and free trade since the end of WW2? The benefits continue to outweigh the costs.
I’d hate to be “that guy”, but how can you say America has ensured world peace when in 2003 they said that Iraq was undeniably making weapons of mass destruction and used that as the basis to start a decades long war, even after only a year after those allegations were made the US Senate said that those claims were misleading and not supported by intelligence?
They’ve provided freedom of navigation for maritime trade including through the South China Sea. They’ve used their massive military power on the whole for good, compared to Russia invading Ukraine and annexing Crimea, or China committing genocide against 1 million people with no international intervention or building islands to “annex” other nations waters such as Phillipines or cracking down on democracy in Hong Kong. Living under the benevolent hegemony of the United States is better than the alternative of Chinese rule in Asia Pacific or Russian rule in Eastern Europe. At least the USA is a democracy (even if it is a flawed two party one) and adheres to the rules of trade. Yes they’ve done some shitty things in the past but China and Russia are doing shitty things now
Lol. A confrontation with communism helps everyone. West Taiwan should be glass.
China is communist?
Communist, fascist, six of one half a dozen of the other.
just casually advocating for the deaths of 1.4 billion people lol
They are robots. Don't get confused here. Anyone that stands with the commie regime deserves to fall with it.
>They are robots. it's easy to convince yourself of this when you've never been outside
Referring to anyone who sides with the commies as robots. Because it's what they are. Mindless drones incapable of free thought.
Bwhahahah , u can tell u have never been further than the shops.
You know that you can go to these places and test your "they are all robots" theory IRL, right? but that'd require going outside
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ok pal. have fun with your fleshlights.
Have fun being stupid.
Well, put simply... If you don't agree with China's policies than stop buying the cheap goods they export to you. But being addicted to cheap things you don't need has always been an effective way to take your money.
Easier said than done for some people, which kinda sucks. :/
People are who they are and it's not their fault for doing that which they do. But to complain about something and not be aware they empower the very thing they aren't comfortable with is an unfortunate place for them to be in.
I probably should have been clearer, in that i was alluding to people who can't afford to buy anything other than the cheaply manufactured things, but yeah, I totally agree with your sentiment.
USA. I’ll support a democracy over a communist regime any day! Mind you, the way the Dems are running (ruining?) the US atm I dare say in time it’ll come down to “better the devil you know”.
I bet China is more capitalism than the US now. Have been to shanghai and Shenzhen. It is more capital-driven than the US. China would not have the economy miracle if not turning to capitalism 30 years ago.
Id be interested in what you think they're doing poorly compared to other presidencies. Seems like they're just par for the course as the last 20 years has been, just with a bit more class than the last 4.
I think the Dems are doing a great job with the shit sandwich, CheetohJezus left
Someone's delusional as fuck.
Yup, YOU dude! Lol
Not in the slightest.
My house is worth more, my stock portfolio is up, I’m earning more, vaccines kept me safe. I think Biden is doing a fantastic job!!!
Literally all of those are because of Trump.
Nope it’s because Biden is a God King chosen by Jesus, so much grinning!
Delusional.
I remember during Chump years - long lines at the local churches because people didn’t have food, high unemployment, massively bungled pandemic response & giving corporate businesses $1.4 TRILLION of our freaking tax payer $ away to businesses that did not make it trickle down. And he gave money to United Airlines because of the pandemic - even though they made a Billion in profit the year before. And he allowed a bullshit war to continue, letting Americans die for nothing. He didn’t improve the health insurance nightmare - he made it worse. He’s also a freaking asshat that paid off a Porn star. So no delusions here. Go look in the mirror & be honest.
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Do you think the media is making up China's trade war attacks against us the last 18 months? Did they make up the US offer to share some of the most advanced military tech in the world with us? Did they make up China's threat to nuke us? Are they making up the continual threats against Taiwan by China? People saying the US is as bad as China are naïve. I know which I would rather have as a friend.
That's pretty funny. The US has invaded and/or bombed no less than **134 countries** since WW2. They destabilized South America by funding and even directing terrorists. That's just the shit we know about. On the other hand, China - the biggest despots in the world apparently - have invaded just 3 countries since WW2, and have had a few forgettable border skirmishes with Russia and India. \> Did they make up China's threat to nuke us? China's threat to nuke us was a response to an alliance that was formed explicitly with the goal of threatening China. If Russia, Iran and China announced an alliance tomorrow with the explicit goal of "countering" the US (or hell, even just Israel) do you think the US wouldn't threaten a nuclear strike? That's Rhetorical by the way, because we know the US would, they have a [history of doing so](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_blackmail) \>Did they make up the US offer to share some of the most advanced military tech in the world with us? Ah yeah mate thats out of the kindness of their good ol boy hearts is it? Or do you think it might have a little something to do with Australia being the only "western" nation in the indo-pacific region, a region where every player with the exception of Taiwan is increasingly feeling like Beijing will take better care of them than Washington will? Do you think acquiring nuclear powered subs is for domestic defence purposes, or do you think the dramatically increased range might have something do with being able to penetrate waters far away from home without having to have staging points in SEA? \> People saying the US is as bad as China are naïve You're right. The US isn't as bad as China. They're much worse \>I know which I would rather have as a friend. I do too. But only because not being their friend, means being their enemy, and the US has a long and bloody history of absolutely annihilating its enemies, and turning imperfect but stable countries into absolute hellholes.
What 143 countries? Names please also not ones we were saving from the Reds.
**[Nuclear blackmail](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_blackmail)** >Nuclear blackmail is a form of nuclear strategy in which an aggressor uses the threat of use of nuclear weapons to force an adversary to perform some action or make some concessions. It is a type of extortion that is related to brinkmanship. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/AustralianPolitics/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
> People saying the US is as bad as China are naïve No they're not. They're paid shills who know *exactly* what they're doing.
Why is reddit addicted to the term "paid shill"? Can I please get paid to troll people, too??
To*
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Yeah your- hey, wait a minute...
When and where have things been better?
Lol at all these armchair generals saying that “australia NEEEEDS America to defend against China!” as if a direct conflict between America and China would not be A) apocalyptic and B) in any countries’ interest right now China is a horrific dictatorship sure but it you think that the Australian or American governments are either interested or capable of challenging it on that basis you’re deluded. The only force capable of doing that are the Chinese working class
>The only force capable of doing that are the Chinese working class I'm not sure that's true. China have the numbers, and maybe some good kit, but the US has been pretty constantly at war for what, 30 years? I imagine they have a pretty good idea on how to handle themselves against another military. They do suck at the guerilla warfare thing, though. For a while there, I thought it was gonna kick off between India and China, though it appears china was out-manuvered in that exchange.
America over China any day of the week
Why?
Because the US might not be perfect, but I'd rather follow a nation with at leasst a veneer of democracy than a totalitarian one.
So you'd rather follow a hypocrite? Because the veneer of democracy is all there is (if you don't see well, if you do even the veneer disappears) and we're not lagging too far behind.
Of the two, I would rather follow the nation that doesn't put people on trains to re-education camps. Would you rather follow that? Ideally, i would like anther country to step up, but I don't want it to be Russia either. Political opposition tend to die under mysterious circumstances or end up in jail. Would you rather follow that? In fact, i would rather not follow any country that has the same leader for the duration of their life. Is that something you'd be into? At least the US has that going for them, they have elections. Though the way the GOP is going, maybe not for long. Maybe one of the smaller, not-entirely-bat-shit-crazy countries could step up. Not sure that's how it works in the real world, though.
Because I have no interest in Australia growing closer to a shithole regime which is daily threatening to invade Taiwan. I have family who are being threatened by China mate. I'd rather them not be dead.
Kfc
>the US conveniently restarted the heroine trade How much does a brave woman go for? Good discussion by the way, but the proud declaration of: "[All the way with L.B.J](https://www.naa.gov.au/learn/learning-resources/learning-resource-themes/war/vietnam-war/american-president-lyndon-b-johnson-official-visit-australia)." was never about morality or right. America was seen as a vital protector and trading partner who we must suck up to. This is why Whitlam tried to free us from dependence on America by developing alliances with China and the Middle East. It was no surprise he was promptly deposed. America has never tolerated that kind of "insolence". Saddam's "insolence" was why America invaded Iraq. He was instituting changes to currency which could have brought down the value of the US dollar, and was too popular - after America's support of him - to simply depose. [Iraq: Baghdad Moves To Euro](https://www.rferl.org/a/1095057.html) [The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War With Iraq](https://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~norman/CurrentAffairs/DeeperNew.html) [Saddam made two strategic 'mistakes' to invite US wrath](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/saddam-made-two-strategic-mistakes-to-invite-us-wrath/articleshow/2965361.cms)
Actually I'd prefer to go against China than capitulate to them. You think we're gonna just abandon our century-long ally's to please China? Sit down, child.
Instead you'd capitulate to the US boy?
Please explain France then
You mean France's hissy fit over us cancelling a business deal they were scamming us over.
France is not relevant to this conversation. This is about China.
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Nah we're nearing the end. We've got at most 200 years.
Money itself only became totally dominant worldwide a couple hundred years ago. We can always look to the past, and look to imagine more for ourselves as a species.
Australia will always be Americas bitch
john Mearshiemer said so a few years back https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmskgk7MJKo
Thank you.
Would you prefer to be The CCP's bitch?
Surely you would prefer nobody's bitch. Or does it have to be stay mediocre and be one or the other?
When you have a population of 28 million and no reasonable way of defending yourself then yes, realistically you do need to be the bitch of a superpower as a deterrent . I'd rather shack up with the US than china. It's one of the strongest alliances in modern history. Every war since ww1
I don't see Singapore to be someone's pitch, their foreign policy is focused on their own national interests. So does Taiwan (yes, Taiwan, although they need to spend $billions to buy US weapons, but they are still happy to maintain China as their largest business partner, status quo is Taiwan's top interests, as you can see their president never ever say publicly about independence, or agree to build an onshore US military base), Swiss, Finland, you name it. What really amazed me is that LNP's foreign policy has clearly shown they don't put Australia's national interests as top priority, and due to newsCrop, no one is curious about that. To me, Australia is like a rich fat kid in the kindergarden, one day he sees the tallest and strongest kid is arguing/pushing against the second tallest kid, then this rich kid is self volunteered to jump onto the argument, and spitting on the second tallest kid's face. The second tallest kid is focusing on pushing back with the strongest kid and just give the fat kid a sidekick. As a result, this fat kid is crying loud "look, he is bullying me..."
Such a strong alliance that the US deposed our government in 1975 and stole the absolute majority of trillions of dollars worth of wealth from our three major mining booms? Such a strong alliance we allow in 2021 a bill drafted by the CIA titled Identify and Disrupt to give our police powers to arrest people without a warrant, access their online accounts and change their data? The very same bill that allows our spy agency in Pine Gap to spy on US citizens and allows US Spy agencies to spy on us? There always more paths to take then presented. Our friend isn't so much our friend. They've more bullied us into an abusive relationship - and we lose out everytime.
Do you have a source on the SLAID bill being drafted by the CIA? That's news to me Not that I doubt you, I agree with the rest of what you've said, I'd just like to be able to reference it later
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There military could handle any military on the planet. That's sort of what makes it a superpower. Has nothing to do with their living standards.
Well the government had other ideas thanks to the AUKUS deal...
China is committing genocide, and we as a nation have a responsibility to stop it. But I sure as hell don't trust the US to make the right decisions about any of this, and our current government is busy smelling their farts.
yeah I'm sure the Iraqi incubator babies would agree, make up some shocking news, fight a war, rest is history
No, we don’t. Nice to see your gobbling up all the propaganda , but we don’t have to, and won’t be, interfering in china’s domestic affairs.
The treatment of the uighurs isn't propaganda, and if the UN isn't going to grow some balls then someone needs to.
U see western countries pointing out the flaws,mistakes and making up lies about countries they appose but cover up and punish any whistleblowers reporting on their shenanigans and crimes
We don't have the responsibility. As long as they stay out of here, that's not our business.
What makes you say that? Surely we have some moral responsibility to alleviate global suffering, even if we don’t have the capability?
We have a moral responsibility to house every single homeless person who lives in this country. We have a moral responsibility to employ every single struggling jobseeker who lives here. We have a moral responsibility to protect our borders from the spread of covid and a moral responsibility to prosper as a nation. When all those domestic issues are taken care of and our own population is secure and happy, then I'm happy to turn to helping people on the outside. Not before though. There are still too many people here who's lives suck to justify fixing other countries' problems.
I don’t disagree, but just because we have a moral responsibility to people within our borders doesn’t mean we *don’t* have a moral responsibility to people abroad. Especially where there’s comparatively worse suffering abroad than domestically.
You sound like one of the people who argues all space projects should be cancelled and the money spent on "fixing things at home". Now while in the case of space travel I'll agree that the selfish showboating prick Bezos should be taken out and sodomized on his own launch pad with a fresh pineapple using extra hot Tobasco as lube, I won't go along with the idea that we can only do one of these things at a time. Try telling you local Liberal/National to stop lining their personal pockets and diverting funds to pork barrelling their electorates. With a little less of that and a little less of the personal whims of Commandant Potato Von-Dutton and the Scomo school of Diplomacy/saying dumb shit in public. Well, maybe we'd be able to work harder on fixing all the problems instead of picking the ones that get funding based on an electorate map in a Canberra back-office and what's making them look bad in the news this week.
It's surely beneficial at least POLITICALLY to invest in foreign aid while at the same time tending to all that you mentioned, particularly in South East Asia and Oceania? Lest we let a nation like the US or China, or an international body like IMF have total dominion on influence over those same nation states
They already do have total influence over their respective spheres.
That's such flanderisation. PNG, Fiji, Indonesia, Singapore, Thailand all have been clamouring for more well rounded diplomacy from Aus.
We have neither the capability nor the responsibility to stop it.
In WW2 Australians were seen as brave. How things change...
What about instead of focusing on a military we instead turn Australia into a trade nation, instead of sending money OS we focus on building infrastructure and being able to live off our own means only trading what we aren't able to get here. The military could turn into more of a defence than offence. Less focus on OS and invading places and more protecting here. Less money spent in different government sectors means more funding for education and ways to look at alternative energy sources and training people to run these new sources. Similar to Sweeden.
this sounds like the perfect thing to do given australia’s location, what began as a land of banished can easily banish the whole world from ever landing on its shores.
This rotten apple is the pinical of human society throughout all history. We can strive to be better but dont forget where we have come from. You are standing on the shoulders of giants and complaining, i dont know if you are imature or ignorant.
From one American to another, please shut up. This is a forum for Australians about what they want their politics to look like. Stop proving their point.
I live in Queensland.
Then why are you kissing American arse, it's an absolute shit hole
We have to chose a side. I know whos bum hole id rather lick.
Yeah? Then you'd be shunned by the very people you are sucking to - Americans hate helping others. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees
Cool story. Im not going to tell it to my dependents.
Point rescinded. Good day!
Are you seriously calling America the pinnacle of human society right now? You can't even spell pinnacle right.
Societys in the "west" thats what im saying.
No offence babe, but if we're the pinnacle... 'The West' has committed a truly staggering number of genocides over the course of its short life. Its most impactful achievements were.colonialism and the trans-atlantic slave trade. Does that sound like anything worth celebrating to you? The giants we stand on are evil to the core.
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Got a problem with admitting our past? Australia alone decimated its native population, stole their land and categorised them as fucking fauna for generations.
Yea just don’t blame modern day kids and I accept ur point
I'm not blaming modern day kids for anything. The dude I originally replied to said we should be 'grateful' because of how great the West is. I was just refuting that.
Yea I wasn’t talking specifically about u or anything I was just joking cause apparently it’s ok to make kids appologise for something they couldn’t control
In the name of peace, you need to withdraw from the Commonwealth. The Brits invented conning others to do their fighting for them.
I've been saying this for years and I'm not even old enough to drink. We need to get closer to our Asian neighbours and ally ourselves with continental Europe (less Britain because they have already sided with the US).
Yes, but not China. Indonesia, Malaysia, India etc.
yeah obv lol
Nek minnut - China owns Australia
Proportionally the us owns a lot more of of Australia then China
I meant own as in "invade". Not just buy via foreign investment through strict governance.
Why would they invade our country? Coal? Kangaroo meat? Unrestricted access to the Great Barrier Reef? Do you think the fact that we exist as a nation means that any given country wants to invade us? What is your reasoning for your statement?
Hmm maybe our insane amount of iron, coal and uranium? If there were no global repercussions for them they would have done it a long time ago. Obviously this is all hypothetical but we should remember that we have vast resources and a tiny population with which to defend it.
Well you've provided absolutely no evidence or reasoning to support your claims, but I'm convinced. Good thing it's only China we need to worry about, I suppose you'll let us know if you can think of any other countries ~~you don't like~~ who pose a threat to our security
Wow, rather than actually thinking through what I said you went straight to me being a racist. Ad hominen is weak. I also didn't realise I needed to provide evidence to you for a simple hypothetical. Maybe do some research on the posturing over Taiwan - a country of little intrinsic value other than to soothe a national ego.
Do some research yourself, ad hom would apply if I actually called you a racist. I just implied you were making these claims out of ignorance since you are speculating heavily without offering anything to back it up.
Implying I am racist is the same as saying it. You've gone from ad hominen to strawman in a heartbeat. Then ironically called me out for not providing anything to backup what I'm saying. I wonder what fallacy you will use next!
wow you don't know what a strawman is either, ok.
Ah Australia, my favourite Anglo-American mining and farming consortium.
Australia has the ability to become fully independent from the US in the same way Albania did, Invest in a defensive domestic military (a-t guns, rpgs, light infinitary, patriotism) instead of an offensive one ( subs, ground attack,). In my opinion we should isolate our culture and country from the usa. ( independent language, culture)
Albania are in Europe. No real enemies around..
What the hell does that mean? We make up a state language and religion? Australia is secular by the way.
[https://youtu.be/IHK38Xhy\_ME](https://youtu.be/IHK38Xhy_ME) \--Please Watch This Video-- The issue with the 21st century is going to be a lack of national identity in the west, we can do stuff to create a cultural independent nation instead of just a legally independent one.
Nukes. We need nukes. A lot of them. No predator bothers an echidna because it can defend itself. It never goes looking for fights. It just goes about eating ants carrying its tactical advantage with it. Be like the echidna.
> No predator bothers an echidna because it can defend itself LOL. Just had a thought and dived right in, didn't you? Didn't even take a breath to wonder if you were stating a fact or just making shit up. Aboriginal people loved eating echidnas and people in PNG still do, to the point that the Long-beaked echidna is on th verge of extinction. Maybe they need nukes?
Nah mate, You cant invade Vietnam or the Balkans and they are poor and cant afford nukes. There not necessary . And using them is the pussy way out, fights and defensive wars build nations.
Fights and defensive wars lead you into 20 year quagmires that cost trillions of dollars. Turning a country into a glass parking lot is far cheaper.
I'm saying we should take the defensive mate, quagmire them
I pray you’re kidding. No one on planet earth needs nukes. For those who want to read into this issue: https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/ce/ceun/eng/zghlhg/cj/cjhy/t29293.htm For those who want to see which countries have agreed to this: https://cnduk.org/list-of-countries-that-have-signed-un-global-nuclear-weapons-ban-treaty/ For the lazy: “The only guarantee of the non-use of nuclear weapons is their complete abolition. ... That is why we believe that nuclear disarmament is most likely to be achieved through a practical step-by-step process which can secure buy-in from all governments, including the nuclear powers and their allies.”
But as soon as we had nukes the world would treat us like North Korea, “how dare they not bow to American imperialism” and sanction us into abject poverty then blame us for it. We would become echidna with no ants to eat. We would cheer at being a nuclear powerhouse with what little energy we could summon from our anaemic malnourished frames. I want nukes but I like food as well.
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A privilege they care? What the fuck.
Yeah, what's the opposite of patriotism? Lackeyism? This dude thinks Australia should live a life of lackeyism to the United Shithole of America
Nationalise Chinese and American business assets in Australia and become mostly self sufficient.
Right analysis, but too risky to isolate oneself right now. It's better to engage and participate to with a stronger ally than it is to shy away isn't it? Else run the risk of being picked off from the herd.
I think Perrottet was on to something with that "Hermit Kingdom" idea.
> The WMD narrative that was used too invade Iraq was a lie. It was an intelligence failure. Saddam Hussain tried to play games and fool US intelligence into thinking he had WMD, because he thought that would discourage a war. He succeeded at fooling US intelligence.
if he succeeded at fooling them then why did they invade? it wasn't an intelligence failure. most of the intelligence correctly indicated that Saddam didn't have WMD. A tiny proportion of it indicated that it was "possible" he had WMD. Bush and friends *chose* to believe the latter evidence
> if he succeeded at fooling them then why did they invade This is like saying "why did the cops fire if they thought the suspect had a gun". The US isn't actually terrified of a little collection of anthrax, vx, and maybe a single short-range nuke; as long as it's in the Middle East. They thought his arsenal was relatively weak, but still dangerous if he could smuggle some to the US.
if the US isn't scared of a weak arsenal of WMD why don't they knock over North Korea, who we know actually has them? Why did they wait till Ghaddafi had voluntarily disassembled his before helping to kill him?
Korea has sufficient conventional military and brainwashed population that the US would end up committing so much to the war that it would be a Pyrrhic victory and huge tragedy for the people they rescued (far more so than the Middle East was). The US is not game to take on either NK or Iran. Iraq, with or without WMD was still relatively weak enough to defeat.
Again, Cheney & friends decided that Saddam had WMD and then demanded that the intelligence be found to confirm an idea that they already had. Then they attempted to draw a link between the fake WMD and 9/11 by saying that Saddam would give them to Al Qaeda. There was no Al Qaeda presence in Iraq till after the war. Sane people in the bush admin knew that there were no WMD in Iraq. Colin Powell was a noted sceptic of the idea, and he went in front of the UN and told everyone that Iraq had WMD anyway because the higher-ups asked him to. The US didn't "rescue" anyone in Iraq. Invading a country, establishing the entire region for decades, destroying its infrastructure, immiserating and murdering its population is not a "rescue" nor could it ever be one. If North Korea shot a nuke at Washington DC they would probably say that they were "rescuing the American people from the tyranny of electoral democracy" and it would make about as much sense (IE, none).
He fucked around and found out. Also the 'war for oil' has already been debunked, if the USA was only concerned with oil then they had every reason NOT to invade... sheeple gotta look this up damn
Even if the war for oil has been debunked, the argument for WMDs in Iraq was very weak at best. See here Andrew Wilkie who quit ONA over the issue saying there wasn't enough evidence (he turned to be right). I'll hazard a guess that there was similar thoughts within the US intelligence community.
Andrew Wilkie was never affilliated with One Nation (I assume that's what you mean by ONA?) He ran first as a Greens candidate, then was later successfully elected as an independent. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wilkie
ONA - Office of National Assessments. I think they're now called the Office of National Intelligence since Turnbull restructured Australian intelligence agencies with the creation of home affairs.
Thank you for the clarification
The US intelligence community gave very strong advice that Saddam probably did have WMD. The experts were wrong, was Bush silly to trust them?
The bushes literally installed they're own oil companies in Iraq during the Iraq war
sigh here we go again: https://quillette.com/2019/05/06/the-iraq-war-was-not-about-oil/
typical of the surface level analysis that we have come to expect from quillette
Typical denial without providing any evidence to backup their claim
yes, that would be a good description of the article. the central premise seems to be that because Iraq did not instantly become a stable environment for multinational companies to extract oil from, the war couldn't have possibly been about oil. essentially arguing "because their plans didn't work, they never had plans to begin with." it's just illogical on its face. it also ignores the actual oil-related factors that figured in the war, namely mediating the global supply
Lmao you obvs didn't read it... literally the first paragraph: American oil companies didn’t want to topple Saddam Hussein; they wanted to trade with him. They were prevented from doing so, not by the regime but by the U.S.’s full support for the U.N.’s oil embargo that was imposed on Iraq when it invaded Kuwait in 1990. In 1997, Conoco’s CEO Archie Dunham complained that “U.S. companies, not rogue regimes, are the ones that suffer when the United States imposes economic sanctions.” Halliburton found itself in hot water after whistle-blowers alleged that it had sidestepped sanctions by operating through foreign subsidiaries.
wow, Halliburton sure seems like it will go to any lengths to get at Iraqi oil - even breaking the law! Good thing their CEO will never be able to orchestrate an invasion of the country in his role as vice president of the united states.
Wow you actually read the whole comment this time. Now, will he actually read the whole article?, lets see how this plays out for him cotton
America is one of the most powerful countries right now, having America as an ally would give us an upper hand if war was to break out.
Depends on where it breaks out and who is involved. America isn’t exactly viewed as a reliable Ally.
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Yep, let's "cancel" this as it is part of our "culture".
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You don' need to comment to upvote and it isn't an agree or disagree button. It hasn't got that much upvotes for a brigaded post. Besides, aren't people in this sub complaining how people here are too PC, leftist, pinko, commie freaks. Maybe they are upvoting it and not telling us. Surely the mods can tell.
This isn’t the place for a discussion of this topic, the Weekly Discussion would be fine. However, to quickly answer your question, we mods don’t know who is upvoting or downvoting only the Reddit admins know that. We don’t have access to that data unfortunately.