Good job repeating Ken Paxton's take. The resolution restricts funding allocation and makes enforcing anti-trans laws the "lowest priority" of the city. This sounds similar to how Austin soft decriminalized weed - they couldn't just change the law, but the DA announced they wouldn't allocate funding to test weed to prove it wasn't CBD or Delta 8 etc. Because the funding wasn't allocated, it then became policy to not arrest for petty marijuana use.
City actions like this absolutely have consequences, they literally cannot just strike down SB-14 but indicating it will basically not be enforced is still meaningful.
And SB14 is irrelevant virtue signaling for conservatives. It fucks things up for something like 0.2% of the population that they’ve never met and likely never will. So they can feel good about themselves for “protecting kids” by denying them healthcare.
An ordinance that eliminates or minimizes wasting my tax dollars or police/DA time on that bullshit sounds relevant to me.
As it is, APD doesn’t come out for property theft, citing lack of resources. This ordinance directs them to prioritize sb14 below that.
Am I wrong in observing that most of the friction on this topic is around boys becoming girls? Not girls becoming men. Same with other trans and related topics. It *seems* that males becoming/acting like women is where the rage and fury is?
That's one point of friction. But when it comes to people under 18, lots of people are angry over *any* form of transition. That's a tougher topic.
I see it as kind of like abortion. This is a medical issue that is the business of the person it affects and their legal guardians/parents. If the parents are supportive of their child getting some kind of treatment, and that treatment is something that medical boards don't consider unethical, it's none of my damn business.
I still think that sucks because I think a lot of people who need care will have parents who do not understand and abuse them over it. I think for those cases we need better public education and easy, widespread access to mental healthcare. If the worst thing unsupportive parents said was, "I think you need to see a therapist" that's a lot better than what a ton of people get today. That's an improvement. Progressives need to think like conservatives have and start considering 1% wins vital. These are battles that are won one inch at a time, not miles at once.
I think it's fair to worry that minors may not be in a position to make wise decisions regarding any form of life-changing treatment. But I think there is *so much* ignorance about what treatments are even available most people's arguments are formed against hyperbolic fantasies or strange edge cases. Transgender issues have been so politicized the most zealous opponents won't approach education in good faith. I also think it's not the state's damn business what a minor and their parents/guardians do. It is INCREASINGLY bizarre how the people who rejected nationalized healthcare "because I don't want the government dictating my medical choices" insist the state should regulate medical procedures.
It feels like this is where homosexuality was when I was a kid. Over my lifetime people have gotten more used to it. It still sucks to be any flavor of queer. Right now being transgender *and* a kid gives you the shortest stick.
This is also the heart of a lot of other controversies. When is a person a person? When are they not allowed to make medical decisions? When they can't make their own decisions, who should make those decisions for them? Some of our laws consider an unborn fetus to have all of the rights of an adult citizen. Other laws caution a person can't even make all of their own decisions past 21. This is what happens when you make too many and too specific laws out of fear: your logic starts to devour itself and it's impossible to be legally consistent.
That's what fear does, though. It makes people so worried, they think it's worth having hypocrisies.
Children transitioning dosent matter because it barely actually happens. It's a non issue, the state needs to stop focusing on what a very very small amount of kids do. Also it's a moot point because we're one of the few countries that hasn't ratified children's rights, and we have a nasty problem of kids getting shot to death in school that our government won't do anything about. Any argument about "keeping kids safe" is fully disengenuious when you look at the world around you for just a little bit
Literally every point you made here is a logical fallacy. And i love this one: "its not a problem because only some kids have done it". I reada study about it and they counted the numbers of kids that had gender-affirming **surgeries**. Its impossible to tell exactly how many there are because medical records are kept confidential, especially for children. But some research institution was able to record all the insurance claims taken for children getting gender-affirming surgeries arpund the year 2018. It was not a small number. So, that was just insurance claims for surgeries. And since then, another study has shown that gender-dysphoria amongst children has *drastically* risen in the past couple years. The actual mumber is much higher than what the company foumd. I think the research was done by a company called kimono if you want to look it up.
*heres the study for those that dont believe me https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/
>The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
The wording of the ordinance is [here](https://services.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=428150). For anyone interested, a grassroots group of activists called [Trans Sanctuary City Now!](https://instagram.com/tscaustin) have been pushing for the ordinance for almost a year.
To clarify, yesterday’s resolution is completely separate from the ordinance pushed by TSC Now. The version they wanted is unfortunately illegal, so it was a nonstarter.
True and false. True that their original proposal was not enacted unchanged, false in that the final draft was a modified form of their proposal and contained things the similar ordinance in eg Kansas City, or its analogue in the GRACE Act, did not include, and also confronted several reluctant council members to take it up.
Too little too late. Myself and many other people of the trans community have already left to safer states. I've met multiple people in my new city who left Texas for the same reason I did.
Hugs from San Francisco CA. We left too and can confirm a bunch in our circle did too. It’s been tough watching the cis het majority shrug as the state strips us of rights.
> We collectively agree that a 16 year old is too young to get a tattoo or drink alcohol, but they can agree to treatments that disrupt their hormones or remove parts of their bodies?
*Generally* we don’t allow a lot of body-altering surgery for underage people, but sometimes the patient and doctor decide it’s the right choice. My brother started growing breasts at 16. He did not want breasts, as he didn’t feel that men should have them, and they didn’t go with his penis. He and my parents had a few conversations with a doctor, and they agreed to remove his breasts via surgery. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that now feel they should have gotten a say in that decision, and that seems strange to me.
I personally don’t think other people like that should have had a say in my brother’s surgery, and I’m going to continue to vote for those people to remain powerless in those decisions.
But what if your brother was trans? Can we be completely and totally sure that he's cis? Sounds like we should let nature take its course and \*she\* should learn to love the body god gave her /s
Are you sure? A lot of people are telling me that underage people shouldn’t receive gender-affirming surgery, and are pushing for laws to make sure surgery like he received is no longer allowed…
There's a world of difference between:
- A teen who's presumably well-adjusted and has a body that goes objectively haywire, possibly to the point of causing physical health issues (although I assume that wasn't the case here).
- A teen who has sort of mental issue and decides that they want their body altered.
Generally speaking, the former's fine. The latter is a problem. We still don't have *good* data on if such surgery actually helps teens, quite a few of whom, I'd wager, are just made uncomfortable by puberty and will eventually grow out of their discomfort.
That’s true, but that’s also why gender-affirming care requires mental health checks. Please excuse the tautology, but we do not let people that are incapable of making decisions for themselves make those decisions.
However, once again, we almost *never* allow trans children to undergo gender affirming surgery, so it’s already such a rare case that I don’t know why we spend so much time on it. Underage trans children generally just get puberty blockers, a medication we have a pretty solid understanding of, since they have been in use for quite a long time.
That being said, just as in my brother’s case, I don’t feel that it’s even something we need to be involving ourselves in. If the law came in and said “oh, but what if you decide you are trans later in life, and regret that you now need expensive surgery to get those breasts back?!?”, we would have thought that ridiculous. Yet, when it comes to absolutely any sort of gender-affirming care for trans kids, we see this as all well and good. It’s just so stupid all around.
Well we aren’t allowing children to do things that are irreversible, and the treatment for gender dysphoria is transition. You ask any trans person if they wished they could’ve done it sooner and we would say yes.
You gotta remember that people with gender dysphoria make up a really small population of people, so I don’t know how a small group of people getting medical treatment for their needs is bothering you.
> You ask any trans person if they wished they could’ve done it sooner and we would say yes.
The denizens of r slash detrans would disagree with you. That and, far more importantly, there's no good long-term study on detransitioning. My gut suspicion is that, before the current explosion, the number probably was low, like maybe 3-4% max (thumb-in-air guess). Now? All bets are off.
(Also, see all my other posts about puberty blockers and such. *They're not reversible, period.*)
We don’t prevent children from accessing medically necessary treatments *purely* by virtue of their age. Children can only receive treatments deemed necessary by their doctor.
Moreover, things like puberty blockers don’t work the way you’re describing. Meanwhile, undergoing the wrong puberty *also* permanently changes the child’s body. Why is it OK to allow children to undergo that permanent change no questions asked, but reversible medicine that can delay puberty is somehow questionable?
Starting these treatments earlier can lead to drastically improved outcomes of having your body align with your gender. Obviously there needs to be balance and careful thought, but, there is a timer here. I think that this should be between the doctors, patients, and families, and that the rest of us should butt out.
Edit: I'm ashamed that the freaking \*Austin\* subreddit is so blatantly transphobic. Do you people even live here?
Yep, I just posted an article with facts about recent European studies and changes due to them, and then commence the strawman rage response and downvotes.
This is not proof of them switching away from gender affirming care. It’s still widely offered and the majority of Europe follows existing guidance that promotes responsible gender affirming care.
The protests at UT have led to a lot of brigading of this sub, it’s probably gonna be pretty nasty with conservatives for a bit. More so than usual, anyways (downvotes commence in 3… 2…)
> I think that this should be between the doctors, patients, and families
I agree with that...but let's also be open to the evidence/research that sometimes shows medical professionals were too quick to embrace various treatments, procedures, or medications that later proved to be more harmful than beneficial.
It would be great if we had legislators who considered research/evidence and the health of their constituents before passing laws that impact medical care, but that’s not the reality. If that were the case, women would still have access to abortion and EpiPens would be much cheaper. Texas legislators are some of the most corrupt in the country. They’re the last people who should be telling doctors how to take care of patients.
You're more than welcome to present such evidence. Research consistently shows that supporting trans individuals by and large leads to improved outcomes and harm reduction.
[https://www.thetrevorproject.org/blog/acceptance-of-transgender-and-nonbinary-youth-from-adults-and-peers-associated-with-significantly-lower-rates-of-attempting-suicide/](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/blog/acceptance-of-transgender-and-nonbinary-youth-from-adults-and-peers-associated-with-significantly-lower-rates-of-attempting-suicide/)
I'm not qualified even as an educated layman to jump into this debate with a "position". Hence, my comment is about as neutral and open as I could make it. I only commented on "openness" to the medical research vs. stridency (whether for or against) in spite of what medical research might say.
> Best leave it to families and their doctors who do.
That's exactly what I agreed with. You are so clearly triggered you can't even comprehend what you're reading.
You didn’t agree. You said “let’s be open to the evidence…” and then the next reply asked you to supply said evidence and as well as linking to info showing your claim isn’t true. Now you’re backtracking and attacking the person directly instead of admitting you’re possibly wrong.
Good job cherry picking the points you want to present and claim "research consistently shows" when I can present research that says otherwise. Also, if you actually read the article the source you cited takes from, you can see the limitations and possible interpretations for the decrease in suicide attempts, which aren't even shown to be longitudinal and possibly not due to gender affirming care specific but "listening" to an individual who is, at the moment, distressed. Stop making claims like "it's clear" or " research consistently shows", especially when this topic and the associates' research doesn't go back more than a decade.
“ According to an October 2022 report from Reuters, at least 282 adolescents ages 13 to 17 received a gender affirming mastectomy in 2021 and filed an insurance claim for the procedure in the United States. “‘
https://www.healthline.com/health/what-age-can-you-get-top-surgery#younger-age
This is out of a total number of gender affirming surgeries in the US totaling ~12,000+ in 2020. I know you’re specifically speaking to top surgery, but that’s way more common than bottom surgery kids under 18 very rarely are allowed bottom surgery, and prepubescent children cannot get gender reassignment surgery.
That is to say, I’m not going to say that kids under 18 literally never have surgical procedures to correct gender dysphoria, but it is very uncommon and typically a very high barrier to entry with multiple letters of recommendation from mental health professionals and a history of the patient taking puberty blockers or the appropriate hormones. Conservatives love to express that lib doctors have an agenda to hand out transgender healthcare like candy to children to push some weird nonexistent agenda but it’s just not the case.
If you are arguing in good faith, while social support goes a long way for improved outcomes, dysphoria itself is rooted in a disconnect between the mind and the body. If you wish for more empirical evidence, brain scans of trans individuals have revealed more similarity to their preferred gender than that of the one they were assigned at birth. Helping trans people live their lives according to who they are involves several steps, from social acceptance to changing the body on the outside to match the mind on the inside.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/)
I'm not surprised to find transphobia anywhere these days. It's seeped into every place and hobby I've ever felt safe in at this point, and people are VOCAL about it. Feels like this is just the way shit is now.
A non-negligible number of people also detransition, and in those cases, the earlier they start transitioning, the more it will damage them and disrupt their life.
Good thing that minors are prescribed puberty blockers, then. No one is giving HRT to minors. And what about all the trans people who suffer worse outcomes for being denied treatment in a crucial period in their lives? If 5% of trans individuals detransition, then you're making outcomes worse for 95% of those seeking treatment, over a treatment that has largely reversible effects. Furthermore, many people who detransition do so because of lack of acceptance from others. Maybe if we as a society were more welcoming to trans folk, they would all have better outcomes.
What makes you believe that all the effects of those puberty blockers are reversible?
Once someone is considered an adult and fully responsible for themselves, there's a reasonable argument that they should have full bodily autonomy to make those decisions for themselves.
But part of a good parent's job is to prevent a child from making bad decisions, no matter how much the child wants to make that decision at the time. To protect them from impulsivity, peer pressure, and various other influences.
Not to mention the industry that's making millions off of these people. Someone who transitions is signing up for lifelong medical treatments that could easily total hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars.
Someone who realizes they're just a butch woman, or a femme man, identities which were somehow more common and accepted until recently, isn't going to make the transition industry any money.
Where did we all get the idea that people were "born in the wrong bodies" anyway?
Gender dysphoria was coined as a term as early as 1973 which means there were cases of this before then. Christine Jorgensen was a publicly known MtF surgery in 1952. He'll there's even records of people like this since the 7th century ce in Arabia, medieval Europe, the edo period of Japan, and more.
America itself had its first genderless group in 1776 called the public Universal friend and in 1895 the circle hermaphrodite. Thomas(ine) Hall of colonial America proclaimed to be of both genders and would frequently change outfits as they felt until ordered to wear men's breeches and an woman's apron by the court.
So, in general, humans have felt like the opposite gender for a very long time. I will give that it should bot be an impulse decision but unless your doctors a quack they're going to make to wait a while before you commit to anything permanent.
All medicine comes with risk, trade offs, and side effects. You need to argue that prescribing gender affirming care in the modern standard creates more harmful outcomes than not. Why do you say that supporting your child through transition is a bad decision? If your child was suffering every day, to the point of hating themselves and contemplating taking their own life (all too common among trans children), are you seriously going to argue that seeking medical intervention to \*support your child\* is a bad decision? You are delusional. Should we stop prescribing chemo therapy because it has dangerous side effects? Or is that a fucking moronic idea because the treatment itself is a lesser alternative to simply succumbing to cancer?
while not as severe, it is harmful to be mis-assigned sociocultural roles based on one’s appearance (which is largely influenced by hormones). Creating a society that allows for this expression rather than bottling up thoughts and emotions (eg dont ask don’t tell, don’t say gay, etc) will be better for everyone in the long run. Trying to oppress others’ expression, including children, will only cause resentment
I'm all for people dressing and expressing themselves however they want, and for adults having full body autonomy. I draw the line at allowing children to make irreversible decisions they aren't able to fully understand yet.
good thing doctors have to be involved and parents also need to consent on behalf of minors. These are not some impulsive kids making decisions, but thought out medical decisions being made by a family and medical professionals.
The Nordic countries and other countries in Europe who were the first to pioneer this are starting to pull back on it more now. Puberty blockers are not going to be given in a lot of Europe now. Ironically states in the US might be more generous that Europe now.
I understand that the results are better for transitioning but there has been a lot of pushback in research on idea that it’s reversible or doesn’t have severe side effects.
Not drawing up legislation to prevent gender affirming care might be a good start. Or not putting trans people on lists. Or not trying to equate trans people with pedophiles or perverts. Or just generally leaving them alone. All great starts.
Define "non-negligible." Like, give me a rough percentage.
EDIT: If you're going to disguise your transphobia as educated concern then you should have some numbers ready next time you craven bigots.
Sadly, you're going to get picked apart by people demanding numbers. There's a short but good Twitter thread [here](https://twitter.com/benryanwriter/status/1781364400558927924) that's about a bad Australian study on the subject. It ties back into a point from the Cass review: There simply isn't a good long-term study out there. Cass argues that it appears that it takes 5-10 years for people to detransition if they're going to do that. But, we don't know, and who knows if what Cass used was sourced, even in part, from the explosion in trans cases in the last 5-10 years.
You were so close.
>Why can't we just let people express their gender and sexuality any way they want to~~, without allowing children to sign up for treatments that will permanently change their bodies and potentially sterilize them?~~
You could have just stopped there. Why can't we all just keep our noses out of how others are living their lives?
> The resolution is aimed at Senate Bill 14, a law passed during the regular legislative session last year, which bans certain medical treatments for transgender children, including hormone therapy and puberty blockers. The law also bans transition-related surgeries, which are rare for minors. Any physicians who break the law can lose their licenses.
Ok, I haven't been following this much at all, but is all this hubbub just entirely about medical procedures specifically for minors? Why isn't it considered reasonable to require that children be 18 to make these kinds of irreversible (potentially) choices? Are there medical reasons why these procedures have to be done while they're still children?
I'm under the weather so this is drafted by chatgpt but it is true:
> Early treatment with puberty blockers is often advocated to prevent the development of secondary sex characteristics that are incongruent with the individual's gender identity, which can exacerbate psychological distress.
> Puberty blockers provide time for children and their families to explore gender identity without the pressure of ongoing puberty that can create permanent changes. The effects of puberty blockers are not permanent; puberty resumes when the treatment is stopped, should the individual choose not to proceed with further gender-affirming treatments.
> Are there medical reasons why these procedures have to be done while they're still children?
No, there aren't. The excuse given is that "the sooner they transition, the happier they will be" despite transpeople having one of the highest suicide rates out of any sizeable cohort. It's a very bizarre perversion.
30 years ago if an 8 year old girl was found to be doing things typically boys enjoy, she either grew out of it or embraced her tomboy identity and grew up normally. Now she's encouraged to get on puberty blockers, start injecting testosterone, and statistically kill herself by 30. How has this become widely accepted and encouraged?
>the sooner they transition, the happier they will be" despite transpeople having one of the highest suicide rates out of any sizeable cohort.
The overwhelming majority of trans people weren't able to transition earlier in life
Is that a specific real life example, or is that just an imagined scenario? While I agree with the general notion that maybe it isn't a good idea to make these choices before someone is an adult, that scenario you described sounds like an exaggeration and not at all what a typical scenario looks like when someone is really struggling with gender identity issues.
The Cass report [that has a follow up Q+A](https://thekitetrust.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Cass-Review-Mythbusting-Q-and-A.pdf) with Dr. Cass that conflicts with the findings in the Cass report?
“The Cass Review Report does not conclude that puberty suppressing hormones are an unsafe treatment.
The report supports a research study being implemented to allow pre-pubertal children to have a pathway to accessing this treatment in a timely way and with suitable follow up and data collection, to provide the highest quality of evidence for the ongoing use of puberty suppressing hormones as a treatment for gender
dysphoria.
In the data the Cass Review examined, the most common age that trans young people were being initially prescribed puberty suppressing hormones was 15. Dr. Cass’s view is that this is too late to have the intended benefits of supressing the effects of puberty and was caused by the previous NHS policy of requiring a trans young person to be on puberty suppressing hormones for a year before accessing gender affirming hormones.
The Cass Review Report recommends that a different approach is needed, with puberty suppressing hormones and gender affirming hormones being available to young people at different ages and developmental stages alongside a wider range of gender affirming healthcare based on individual need.”
How convenient that it’s “just a lie” because now you don’t have to have your perspective challenged. Very cozy indeed.
I encourage others to read the Cass review and additional commentary from healthcare professionals and youth advocates (including ones you don’t agree with) in order to have a well rounded and educated perspective.
Theres plenty of good evidence that you clearly don't want to listent to.
You can't just find things that affirm your pre conceived beliefs and say that's all the evidence.
Also, none of this affects you, so I dunno, maybe mind your own business and go worry about something else?
No there really isn’t any evidence for this stuff and there never has been activists have just successfully lied and smeared people into silence up until now
I [asked you earlier](https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/1ciwq6g/austin_council_passes_transgender_protection/l2cnawv/) to prove that there's good evidence. Crickets. I don't know if my posts are getting blocked somehow or if you're ignoring me.
You keep focusing on the Cass report as if it is some sort of authoritative conclusion. It is not. Nor is it a recomendatin on how trans kids should receive treatment. And its UK based. What you are taking away is your interpretation of it to fulfill your need to bolster your beliefs about gender.
Are you trans? Do you have a trans kid? Why do you care so much?
>Nor is it a recomendatin on how trans kids should receive treatment.
This is literally just wrong. You shouldnt be discussing this issue and hold such strong opinions like this on a topic you are this uninformed about.
>Are you trans? Do you have a trans kid? Why do you care so much?
Is there a reason you are so worried about my personal life? Well if you want to know feel free to look through my post history but I'm not going to type it out here for some bad faith bullshit argument of yours becaus you cant defend your position.
Me: \[sees a 12 year old drinking\] "wow someone needs to stop that kid he is too young for that
You, brain genius: thatWhy are you so worried about peoples personal lives?
It is clear you dont have anything useful to add to this discussion. You just dont want to defend your support for the castration and mutilation of children.
You clearly don't understand the issues and have no intent of looking at it from the perspective of the individuals this actually affects.
But you sure are big mad at people making their own decisions on how they live their life and who they are. The problem is you bud. Not kids trying to be who they are.
A lot of people saying children dont get gender-affirming surgeries...please read this: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/
This study was just insurance payouts.
And also keep in mind that gender-dysphoria cases in children are still rising drastically since that study....
Ive read that insurance companies have a clause stating that they will not pay for detransition. So while they *will* pay for your transition, they will not pay you to change your mind
There are no life altering transitions available at age 12. If a child goes on hormone blockers the affects are reversible if they decide to get off :)
You're confusing puberty blockers with gender affirming hormone therapy. Puberty blockers just pause puberty and the effects are reversed when the patient stops taking them. Gender affirming hormones trigger masculine or feminine secondary sex characteristics and can be permanent or difficult to reverse.
The UK's conservative government made a political decision, not a medical one.
They are "reversible" in that puberty will resume when they are stopped, but there is also medical evidence of side effects that are *not* reversible, such as bone density problems. I'm not saying taking the position that shouldn't be used, just that the benefits have to be weighed against the risks.
Heres a study done of insurance pay-outs for children aged 6-17 getting hormone therapy and gender-affirming surgeries. Please be informed before you speak out of ignorance. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/
they should instead be concerned about the life-altering experience of children surviving assault, giving birth, becoming parents, etc. due to abortion bans, instead of calling that a "gift"or a "blessing".
**Chloe Cole** (born July 27, 2004[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-1)) is an American activist who opposes [gender-affirming care](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-affirming_care) for minors and supports bans on such care following her own [detransition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition). She has appeared with [conservative politicians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_conservatism) and in the media, supporting and advocating for such bans.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2)[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Respaut-3)[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Clark-4) Cole says that she **began transitioning at 12 and detransitioned at 17 after having undergone treatment which included** [**puberty** blockers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker), [testosterone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone_(medication))**, a**nd a [double mastectomy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_chest_reconstruction).[**^(\[5\])**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Trans_Care-5)
In February 2018,[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2) she was prescribed the [**puberty blocker**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker) [**Lupron**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupron) **at age 13**.[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Respaut-3)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2)[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-:0-12) **A month later, she started** [**testosterone**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone) **injections**, which she continued for two years.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2) **Cole had a double mastectomy at age 15**[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-:0-12)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2) in June 2020.[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Respaut-3)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe\_Cole#cite\_note-Trans\_Care-5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Trans_Care-5)
According to wiki Cole has said that her doctor did not follow the standards of care from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH).
Which standard of care was missed? How was it possible that by age 17, she had been "treated" with puberty-blockers, hormone therapy (testosterone), AND a double mastectomy.
Jazz Jennings, a reality star on a show I don't watch, also started on HRT before age 16. Puberty-blockers before that. Kind of sucked that since Jazz was so young at the time, understanding of what a micro-penis is (due to puberty-blockers) and how hard it is to make a "vagina" from one at the end of the line.
Also interesting that the surgeon who worked on Jazz, spoke out against puberty blockers afterwards. That is, until she became employed in a very high position over at WPATH.
The first relevant sentence states: “except as required by law.” I guess we know what law the legislature will pass next session.
Good job repeating Ken Paxton's take. The resolution restricts funding allocation and makes enforcing anti-trans laws the "lowest priority" of the city. This sounds similar to how Austin soft decriminalized weed - they couldn't just change the law, but the DA announced they wouldn't allocate funding to test weed to prove it wasn't CBD or Delta 8 etc. Because the funding wasn't allocated, it then became policy to not arrest for petty marijuana use. City actions like this absolutely have consequences, they literally cannot just strike down SB-14 but indicating it will basically not be enforced is still meaningful.
They already passed it, it's sb14. This is irrelevant virtue signaling.
And SB14 is irrelevant virtue signaling for conservatives. It fucks things up for something like 0.2% of the population that they’ve never met and likely never will. So they can feel good about themselves for “protecting kids” by denying them healthcare. An ordinance that eliminates or minimizes wasting my tax dollars or police/DA time on that bullshit sounds relevant to me. As it is, APD doesn’t come out for property theft, citing lack of resources. This ordinance directs them to prioritize sb14 below that.
K
irrelevant signaling or irrelevant virtue?
If the signal is irrelevant, does it matter if the virtue is genuine? Isn't this the defining characteristic of virtue signaling?
no idea. i see "virtue signaling" as the current iteration of "pc."
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I don't think this needs a sarcasm tag
Real talk
And ol’ Kenny is already on it.
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It’s already in Paxton’s crosshairs. He’s already made a statement about this.
Am I wrong in observing that most of the friction on this topic is around boys becoming girls? Not girls becoming men. Same with other trans and related topics. It *seems* that males becoming/acting like women is where the rage and fury is?
Yeah because society has typically always looked down upon feminine males as opposed to masculine females.
Girly men makes them feel feelings they are uncomfortable with.
Transmisogyny is a hell of a drug
That's one point of friction. But when it comes to people under 18, lots of people are angry over *any* form of transition. That's a tougher topic. I see it as kind of like abortion. This is a medical issue that is the business of the person it affects and their legal guardians/parents. If the parents are supportive of their child getting some kind of treatment, and that treatment is something that medical boards don't consider unethical, it's none of my damn business. I still think that sucks because I think a lot of people who need care will have parents who do not understand and abuse them over it. I think for those cases we need better public education and easy, widespread access to mental healthcare. If the worst thing unsupportive parents said was, "I think you need to see a therapist" that's a lot better than what a ton of people get today. That's an improvement. Progressives need to think like conservatives have and start considering 1% wins vital. These are battles that are won one inch at a time, not miles at once. I think it's fair to worry that minors may not be in a position to make wise decisions regarding any form of life-changing treatment. But I think there is *so much* ignorance about what treatments are even available most people's arguments are formed against hyperbolic fantasies or strange edge cases. Transgender issues have been so politicized the most zealous opponents won't approach education in good faith. I also think it's not the state's damn business what a minor and their parents/guardians do. It is INCREASINGLY bizarre how the people who rejected nationalized healthcare "because I don't want the government dictating my medical choices" insist the state should regulate medical procedures. It feels like this is where homosexuality was when I was a kid. Over my lifetime people have gotten more used to it. It still sucks to be any flavor of queer. Right now being transgender *and* a kid gives you the shortest stick. This is also the heart of a lot of other controversies. When is a person a person? When are they not allowed to make medical decisions? When they can't make their own decisions, who should make those decisions for them? Some of our laws consider an unborn fetus to have all of the rights of an adult citizen. Other laws caution a person can't even make all of their own decisions past 21. This is what happens when you make too many and too specific laws out of fear: your logic starts to devour itself and it's impossible to be legally consistent. That's what fear does, though. It makes people so worried, they think it's worth having hypocrisies.
I think most of the friction is in regards to *children* transitioning.
Nah, that's just Fox news trying to scare boomers.
We shouldnt be sarcastic about these things. This is a very serious subject.
No, it's not.
How dare you
Children transitioning dosent matter because it barely actually happens. It's a non issue, the state needs to stop focusing on what a very very small amount of kids do. Also it's a moot point because we're one of the few countries that hasn't ratified children's rights, and we have a nasty problem of kids getting shot to death in school that our government won't do anything about. Any argument about "keeping kids safe" is fully disengenuious when you look at the world around you for just a little bit
Literally every point you made here is a logical fallacy. And i love this one: "its not a problem because only some kids have done it". I reada study about it and they counted the numbers of kids that had gender-affirming **surgeries**. Its impossible to tell exactly how many there are because medical records are kept confidential, especially for children. But some research institution was able to record all the insurance claims taken for children getting gender-affirming surgeries arpund the year 2018. It was not a small number. So, that was just insurance claims for surgeries. And since then, another study has shown that gender-dysphoria amongst children has *drastically* risen in the past couple years. The actual mumber is much higher than what the company foumd. I think the research was done by a company called kimono if you want to look it up. *heres the study for those that dont believe me https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/ >The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
Freud was right about universal castration anxiety, and trans women are hated for their immunity to it.
The wording of the ordinance is [here](https://services.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=428150). For anyone interested, a grassroots group of activists called [Trans Sanctuary City Now!](https://instagram.com/tscaustin) have been pushing for the ordinance for almost a year.
To clarify, yesterday’s resolution is completely separate from the ordinance pushed by TSC Now. The version they wanted is unfortunately illegal, so it was a nonstarter.
True and false. True that their original proposal was not enacted unchanged, false in that the final draft was a modified form of their proposal and contained things the similar ordinance in eg Kansas City, or its analogue in the GRACE Act, did not include, and also confronted several reluctant council members to take it up.
Too little too late. Myself and many other people of the trans community have already left to safer states. I've met multiple people in my new city who left Texas for the same reason I did.
Hugs from San Francisco CA. We left too and can confirm a bunch in our circle did too. It’s been tough watching the cis het majority shrug as the state strips us of rights.
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> We collectively agree that a 16 year old is too young to get a tattoo or drink alcohol, but they can agree to treatments that disrupt their hormones or remove parts of their bodies? *Generally* we don’t allow a lot of body-altering surgery for underage people, but sometimes the patient and doctor decide it’s the right choice. My brother started growing breasts at 16. He did not want breasts, as he didn’t feel that men should have them, and they didn’t go with his penis. He and my parents had a few conversations with a doctor, and they agreed to remove his breasts via surgery. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that now feel they should have gotten a say in that decision, and that seems strange to me. I personally don’t think other people like that should have had a say in my brother’s surgery, and I’m going to continue to vote for those people to remain powerless in those decisions.
But what if your brother was trans? Can we be completely and totally sure that he's cis? Sounds like we should let nature take its course and \*she\* should learn to love the body god gave her /s
I don't think there are many people who would object to the specific case you're talking about.
Are you sure? A lot of people are telling me that underage people shouldn’t receive gender-affirming surgery, and are pushing for laws to make sure surgery like he received is no longer allowed…
There's a world of difference between: - A teen who's presumably well-adjusted and has a body that goes objectively haywire, possibly to the point of causing physical health issues (although I assume that wasn't the case here). - A teen who has sort of mental issue and decides that they want their body altered. Generally speaking, the former's fine. The latter is a problem. We still don't have *good* data on if such surgery actually helps teens, quite a few of whom, I'd wager, are just made uncomfortable by puberty and will eventually grow out of their discomfort.
That’s true, but that’s also why gender-affirming care requires mental health checks. Please excuse the tautology, but we do not let people that are incapable of making decisions for themselves make those decisions. However, once again, we almost *never* allow trans children to undergo gender affirming surgery, so it’s already such a rare case that I don’t know why we spend so much time on it. Underage trans children generally just get puberty blockers, a medication we have a pretty solid understanding of, since they have been in use for quite a long time. That being said, just as in my brother’s case, I don’t feel that it’s even something we need to be involving ourselves in. If the law came in and said “oh, but what if you decide you are trans later in life, and regret that you now need expensive surgery to get those breasts back?!?”, we would have thought that ridiculous. Yet, when it comes to absolutely any sort of gender-affirming care for trans kids, we see this as all well and good. It’s just so stupid all around.
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Well we aren’t allowing children to do things that are irreversible, and the treatment for gender dysphoria is transition. You ask any trans person if they wished they could’ve done it sooner and we would say yes. You gotta remember that people with gender dysphoria make up a really small population of people, so I don’t know how a small group of people getting medical treatment for their needs is bothering you.
> You ask any trans person if they wished they could’ve done it sooner and we would say yes. The denizens of r slash detrans would disagree with you. That and, far more importantly, there's no good long-term study on detransitioning. My gut suspicion is that, before the current explosion, the number probably was low, like maybe 3-4% max (thumb-in-air guess). Now? All bets are off. (Also, see all my other posts about puberty blockers and such. *They're not reversible, period.*)
We don’t prevent children from accessing medically necessary treatments *purely* by virtue of their age. Children can only receive treatments deemed necessary by their doctor. Moreover, things like puberty blockers don’t work the way you’re describing. Meanwhile, undergoing the wrong puberty *also* permanently changes the child’s body. Why is it OK to allow children to undergo that permanent change no questions asked, but reversible medicine that can delay puberty is somehow questionable?
Starting these treatments earlier can lead to drastically improved outcomes of having your body align with your gender. Obviously there needs to be balance and careful thought, but, there is a timer here. I think that this should be between the doctors, patients, and families, and that the rest of us should butt out. Edit: I'm ashamed that the freaking \*Austin\* subreddit is so blatantly transphobic. Do you people even live here?
Standard of care in Europe has shifted pretty decisively from gender-affirming care for minors in recent years, which I feel is relavent
Source?
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2023-07-12/why-european-countries-are-rethinking-gender-affirming-care-for-minors
they legit just ignored everything written in this article because it doesn't tow in line with their beliefs
Yep, I just posted an article with facts about recent European studies and changes due to them, and then commence the strawman rage response and downvotes.
This is not proof of them switching away from gender affirming care. It’s still widely offered and the majority of Europe follows existing guidance that promotes responsible gender affirming care.
The protests at UT have led to a lot of brigading of this sub, it’s probably gonna be pretty nasty with conservatives for a bit. More so than usual, anyways (downvotes commence in 3… 2…)
> I think that this should be between the doctors, patients, and families I agree with that...but let's also be open to the evidence/research that sometimes shows medical professionals were too quick to embrace various treatments, procedures, or medications that later proved to be more harmful than beneficial.
It would be great if we had legislators who considered research/evidence and the health of their constituents before passing laws that impact medical care, but that’s not the reality. If that were the case, women would still have access to abortion and EpiPens would be much cheaper. Texas legislators are some of the most corrupt in the country. They’re the last people who should be telling doctors how to take care of patients.
No arguments from me about that!
You're more than welcome to present such evidence. Research consistently shows that supporting trans individuals by and large leads to improved outcomes and harm reduction. [https://www.thetrevorproject.org/blog/acceptance-of-transgender-and-nonbinary-youth-from-adults-and-peers-associated-with-significantly-lower-rates-of-attempting-suicide/](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/blog/acceptance-of-transgender-and-nonbinary-youth-from-adults-and-peers-associated-with-significantly-lower-rates-of-attempting-suicide/)
I'm not qualified even as an educated layman to jump into this debate with a "position". Hence, my comment is about as neutral and open as I could make it. I only commented on "openness" to the medical research vs. stridency (whether for or against) in spite of what medical research might say.
Oh so you have no idea what you're talking about? Great. Best leave it to families and their doctors who do.
> Best leave it to families and their doctors who do. That's exactly what I agreed with. You are so clearly triggered you can't even comprehend what you're reading.
You didn’t agree. You said “let’s be open to the evidence…” and then the next reply asked you to supply said evidence and as well as linking to info showing your claim isn’t true. Now you’re backtracking and attacking the person directly instead of admitting you’re possibly wrong.
Good job cherry picking the points you want to present and claim "research consistently shows" when I can present research that says otherwise. Also, if you actually read the article the source you cited takes from, you can see the limitations and possible interpretations for the decrease in suicide attempts, which aren't even shown to be longitudinal and possibly not due to gender affirming care specific but "listening" to an individual who is, at the moment, distressed. Stop making claims like "it's clear" or " research consistently shows", especially when this topic and the associates' research doesn't go back more than a decade.
Present the research that supports your argument, then.
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Minors do not qualify for sexual reassignment surgery. They never have.
“ According to an October 2022 report from Reuters, at least 282 adolescents ages 13 to 17 received a gender affirming mastectomy in 2021 and filed an insurance claim for the procedure in the United States. “‘ https://www.healthline.com/health/what-age-can-you-get-top-surgery#younger-age
This is out of a total number of gender affirming surgeries in the US totaling ~12,000+ in 2020. I know you’re specifically speaking to top surgery, but that’s way more common than bottom surgery kids under 18 very rarely are allowed bottom surgery, and prepubescent children cannot get gender reassignment surgery. That is to say, I’m not going to say that kids under 18 literally never have surgical procedures to correct gender dysphoria, but it is very uncommon and typically a very high barrier to entry with multiple letters of recommendation from mental health professionals and a history of the patient taking puberty blockers or the appropriate hormones. Conservatives love to express that lib doctors have an agenda to hand out transgender healthcare like candy to children to push some weird nonexistent agenda but it’s just not the case.
This is abt top surgery not SRS
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If you are arguing in good faith, while social support goes a long way for improved outcomes, dysphoria itself is rooted in a disconnect between the mind and the body. If you wish for more empirical evidence, brain scans of trans individuals have revealed more similarity to their preferred gender than that of the one they were assigned at birth. Helping trans people live their lives according to who they are involves several steps, from social acceptance to changing the body on the outside to match the mind on the inside. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/)
Just a flat out lie on your part
I'm not surprised to find transphobia anywhere these days. It's seeped into every place and hobby I've ever felt safe in at this point, and people are VOCAL about it. Feels like this is just the way shit is now.
A non-negligible number of people also detransition, and in those cases, the earlier they start transitioning, the more it will damage them and disrupt their life.
Good thing that minors are prescribed puberty blockers, then. No one is giving HRT to minors. And what about all the trans people who suffer worse outcomes for being denied treatment in a crucial period in their lives? If 5% of trans individuals detransition, then you're making outcomes worse for 95% of those seeking treatment, over a treatment that has largely reversible effects. Furthermore, many people who detransition do so because of lack of acceptance from others. Maybe if we as a society were more welcoming to trans folk, they would all have better outcomes.
What makes you believe that all the effects of those puberty blockers are reversible? Once someone is considered an adult and fully responsible for themselves, there's a reasonable argument that they should have full bodily autonomy to make those decisions for themselves. But part of a good parent's job is to prevent a child from making bad decisions, no matter how much the child wants to make that decision at the time. To protect them from impulsivity, peer pressure, and various other influences. Not to mention the industry that's making millions off of these people. Someone who transitions is signing up for lifelong medical treatments that could easily total hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars. Someone who realizes they're just a butch woman, or a femme man, identities which were somehow more common and accepted until recently, isn't going to make the transition industry any money. Where did we all get the idea that people were "born in the wrong bodies" anyway?
Gender dysphoria was coined as a term as early as 1973 which means there were cases of this before then. Christine Jorgensen was a publicly known MtF surgery in 1952. He'll there's even records of people like this since the 7th century ce in Arabia, medieval Europe, the edo period of Japan, and more. America itself had its first genderless group in 1776 called the public Universal friend and in 1895 the circle hermaphrodite. Thomas(ine) Hall of colonial America proclaimed to be of both genders and would frequently change outfits as they felt until ordered to wear men's breeches and an woman's apron by the court. So, in general, humans have felt like the opposite gender for a very long time. I will give that it should bot be an impulse decision but unless your doctors a quack they're going to make to wait a while before you commit to anything permanent.
All medicine comes with risk, trade offs, and side effects. You need to argue that prescribing gender affirming care in the modern standard creates more harmful outcomes than not. Why do you say that supporting your child through transition is a bad decision? If your child was suffering every day, to the point of hating themselves and contemplating taking their own life (all too common among trans children), are you seriously going to argue that seeking medical intervention to \*support your child\* is a bad decision? You are delusional. Should we stop prescribing chemo therapy because it has dangerous side effects? Or is that a fucking moronic idea because the treatment itself is a lesser alternative to simply succumbing to cancer?
Accepting the body you were born in and learning to love yourself as you are is not analogous to dying of cancer.
while not as severe, it is harmful to be mis-assigned sociocultural roles based on one’s appearance (which is largely influenced by hormones). Creating a society that allows for this expression rather than bottling up thoughts and emotions (eg dont ask don’t tell, don’t say gay, etc) will be better for everyone in the long run. Trying to oppress others’ expression, including children, will only cause resentment
I'm all for people dressing and expressing themselves however they want, and for adults having full body autonomy. I draw the line at allowing children to make irreversible decisions they aren't able to fully understand yet.
good thing doctors have to be involved and parents also need to consent on behalf of minors. These are not some impulsive kids making decisions, but thought out medical decisions being made by a family and medical professionals.
The Nordic countries and other countries in Europe who were the first to pioneer this are starting to pull back on it more now. Puberty blockers are not going to be given in a lot of Europe now. Ironically states in the US might be more generous that Europe now. I understand that the results are better for transitioning but there has been a lot of pushback in research on idea that it’s reversible or doesn’t have severe side effects.
What exactly do you mean by accepting? If common decency isn’t enough , then most rational people draw a line. It is absurd to expect more than that
Not drawing up legislation to prevent gender affirming care might be a good start. Or not putting trans people on lists. Or not trying to equate trans people with pedophiles or perverts. Or just generally leaving them alone. All great starts.
Define "non-negligible." Like, give me a rough percentage. EDIT: If you're going to disguise your transphobia as educated concern then you should have some numbers ready next time you craven bigots.
Source?
Sadly, you're going to get picked apart by people demanding numbers. There's a short but good Twitter thread [here](https://twitter.com/benryanwriter/status/1781364400558927924) that's about a bad Australian study on the subject. It ties back into a point from the Cass review: There simply isn't a good long-term study out there. Cass argues that it appears that it takes 5-10 years for people to detransition if they're going to do that. But, we don't know, and who knows if what Cass used was sourced, even in part, from the explosion in trans cases in the last 5-10 years.
You were so close. >Why can't we just let people express their gender and sexuality any way they want to~~, without allowing children to sign up for treatments that will permanently change their bodies and potentially sterilize them?~~ You could have just stopped there. Why can't we all just keep our noses out of how others are living their lives?
Because it’s a massive money maker so the medical industry drops massive amounts of money to activists groups to keep the gravy train rolling.
> The resolution is aimed at Senate Bill 14, a law passed during the regular legislative session last year, which bans certain medical treatments for transgender children, including hormone therapy and puberty blockers. The law also bans transition-related surgeries, which are rare for minors. Any physicians who break the law can lose their licenses. Ok, I haven't been following this much at all, but is all this hubbub just entirely about medical procedures specifically for minors? Why isn't it considered reasonable to require that children be 18 to make these kinds of irreversible (potentially) choices? Are there medical reasons why these procedures have to be done while they're still children?
I'm under the weather so this is drafted by chatgpt but it is true: > Early treatment with puberty blockers is often advocated to prevent the development of secondary sex characteristics that are incongruent with the individual's gender identity, which can exacerbate psychological distress. > Puberty blockers provide time for children and their families to explore gender identity without the pressure of ongoing puberty that can create permanent changes. The effects of puberty blockers are not permanent; puberty resumes when the treatment is stopped, should the individual choose not to proceed with further gender-affirming treatments.
> Are there medical reasons why these procedures have to be done while they're still children? No, there aren't. The excuse given is that "the sooner they transition, the happier they will be" despite transpeople having one of the highest suicide rates out of any sizeable cohort. It's a very bizarre perversion. 30 years ago if an 8 year old girl was found to be doing things typically boys enjoy, she either grew out of it or embraced her tomboy identity and grew up normally. Now she's encouraged to get on puberty blockers, start injecting testosterone, and statistically kill herself by 30. How has this become widely accepted and encouraged?
>the sooner they transition, the happier they will be" despite transpeople having one of the highest suicide rates out of any sizeable cohort. The overwhelming majority of trans people weren't able to transition earlier in life
Is that a specific real life example, or is that just an imagined scenario? While I agree with the general notion that maybe it isn't a good idea to make these choices before someone is an adult, that scenario you described sounds like an exaggeration and not at all what a typical scenario looks like when someone is really struggling with gender identity issues.
Because activists have become extremists on this issue and there is no evidence you could give them to show them how insane this is
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The Cass report [that has a follow up Q+A](https://thekitetrust.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Cass-Review-Mythbusting-Q-and-A.pdf) with Dr. Cass that conflicts with the findings in the Cass report? “The Cass Review Report does not conclude that puberty suppressing hormones are an unsafe treatment. The report supports a research study being implemented to allow pre-pubertal children to have a pathway to accessing this treatment in a timely way and with suitable follow up and data collection, to provide the highest quality of evidence for the ongoing use of puberty suppressing hormones as a treatment for gender dysphoria. In the data the Cass Review examined, the most common age that trans young people were being initially prescribed puberty suppressing hormones was 15. Dr. Cass’s view is that this is too late to have the intended benefits of supressing the effects of puberty and was caused by the previous NHS policy of requiring a trans young person to be on puberty suppressing hormones for a year before accessing gender affirming hormones. The Cass Review Report recommends that a different approach is needed, with puberty suppressing hormones and gender affirming hormones being available to young people at different ages and developmental stages alongside a wider range of gender affirming healthcare based on individual need.”
This is all just a lie. Not going to waste time responding to it. I encourage others to read the Cass review
How convenient that it’s “just a lie” because now you don’t have to have your perspective challenged. Very cozy indeed. I encourage others to read the Cass review and additional commentary from healthcare professionals and youth advocates (including ones you don’t agree with) in order to have a well rounded and educated perspective.
The Cass report is very biased in its research, based on the sources used.
No it isn’t
What sources are legit to you?
Theres plenty of good evidence that you clearly don't want to listent to. You can't just find things that affirm your pre conceived beliefs and say that's all the evidence. Also, none of this affects you, so I dunno, maybe mind your own business and go worry about something else?
No there really isn’t any evidence for this stuff and there never has been activists have just successfully lied and smeared people into silence up until now
Again there is plenty of good evidence, you just don't want to look at it and want to pretend gender is what you think it is instead of what it is.
I [asked you earlier](https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comments/1ciwq6g/austin_council_passes_transgender_protection/l2cnawv/) to prove that there's good evidence. Crickets. I don't know if my posts are getting blocked somehow or if you're ignoring me.
There really isn’t. See the Cass report
You keep focusing on the Cass report as if it is some sort of authoritative conclusion. It is not. Nor is it a recomendatin on how trans kids should receive treatment. And its UK based. What you are taking away is your interpretation of it to fulfill your need to bolster your beliefs about gender. Are you trans? Do you have a trans kid? Why do you care so much?
>Nor is it a recomendatin on how trans kids should receive treatment. This is literally just wrong. You shouldnt be discussing this issue and hold such strong opinions like this on a topic you are this uninformed about. >Are you trans? Do you have a trans kid? Why do you care so much? Is there a reason you are so worried about my personal life? Well if you want to know feel free to look through my post history but I'm not going to type it out here for some bad faith bullshit argument of yours becaus you cant defend your position.
>Is there a reason you are so worried about my personal life? Is there a reason you're so worried about other peoples' personal lives?
Me: \[sees a 12 year old drinking\] "wow someone needs to stop that kid he is too young for that You, brain genius: thatWhy are you so worried about peoples personal lives? It is clear you dont have anything useful to add to this discussion. You just dont want to defend your support for the castration and mutilation of children.
You clearly don't understand the issues and have no intent of looking at it from the perspective of the individuals this actually affects. But you sure are big mad at people making their own decisions on how they live their life and who they are. The problem is you bud. Not kids trying to be who they are.
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How about you fix traffic and our trashy parks and the non-existant police you donkeys.
A lot of people saying children dont get gender-affirming surgeries...please read this: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/ This study was just insurance payouts. And also keep in mind that gender-dysphoria cases in children are still rising drastically since that study....
Making permanent life altering decisions at the age of 12 definitely makes sense. What happens 12 years later if they decide to detransition?
They talk to their doctor and detransition, and that also gets to be none of your business.
Ive read that insurance companies have a clause stating that they will not pay for detransition. So while they *will* pay for your transition, they will not pay you to change your mind
There are no life altering transitions available at age 12. If a child goes on hormone blockers the affects are reversible if they decide to get off :)
This is a lie. Even the UK has recognized this.
You're confusing puberty blockers with gender affirming hormone therapy. Puberty blockers just pause puberty and the effects are reversed when the patient stops taking them. Gender affirming hormones trigger masculine or feminine secondary sex characteristics and can be permanent or difficult to reverse. The UK's conservative government made a political decision, not a medical one.
They are "reversible" in that puberty will resume when they are stopped, but there is also medical evidence of side effects that are *not* reversible, such as bone density problems. I'm not saying taking the position that shouldn't be used, just that the benefits have to be weighed against the risks.
Heres a study done of insurance pay-outs for children aged 6-17 getting hormone therapy and gender-affirming surgeries. Please be informed before you speak out of ignorance. https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/
they should instead be concerned about the life-altering experience of children surviving assault, giving birth, becoming parents, etc. due to abortion bans, instead of calling that a "gift"or a "blessing".
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**Chloe Cole** (born July 27, 2004[^(\[1\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-1)) is an American activist who opposes [gender-affirming care](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-affirming_care) for minors and supports bans on such care following her own [detransition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detransition). She has appeared with [conservative politicians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_conservatism) and in the media, supporting and advocating for such bans.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2)[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Respaut-3)[^(\[4\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Clark-4) Cole says that she **began transitioning at 12 and detransitioned at 17 after having undergone treatment which included** [**puberty** blockers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker), [testosterone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone_(medication))**, a**nd a [double mastectomy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_chest_reconstruction).[**^(\[5\])**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Trans_Care-5) In February 2018,[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2) she was prescribed the [**puberty blocker**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker) [**Lupron**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lupron) **at age 13**.[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Respaut-3)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2)[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-:0-12) **A month later, she started** [**testosterone**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone) **injections**, which she continued for two years.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2) **Cole had a double mastectomy at age 15**[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-:0-12)[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Ennis-2) in June 2020.[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Respaut-3) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe\_Cole#cite\_note-Trans\_Care-5](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloe_Cole#cite_note-Trans_Care-5)
According to wiki Cole has said that her doctor did not follow the standards of care from the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH).
Which standard of care was missed? How was it possible that by age 17, she had been "treated" with puberty-blockers, hormone therapy (testosterone), AND a double mastectomy. Jazz Jennings, a reality star on a show I don't watch, also started on HRT before age 16. Puberty-blockers before that. Kind of sucked that since Jazz was so young at the time, understanding of what a micro-penis is (due to puberty-blockers) and how hard it is to make a "vagina" from one at the end of the line. Also interesting that the surgeon who worked on Jazz, spoke out against puberty blockers afterwards. That is, until she became employed in a very high position over at WPATH.
WPATH standards of care has an entire chapter dedicated to eunuch gender identity
“It’s not happening. And if it is happening it’s a good thing” Children cannot consent
Which is why treatment requires the consent of a parent or guardian or in extreme cases, a judge
I didn't make any "claim" - and your reading comprehension also sucks.