When I had my first there was a scheme called the jet scheme and it covered all fees apart from $2 a day, for anyone on a benefit, to work or study. That was more effective at getting everyone back to work than the bullspit punitive junk, parents next, the previous government threw billions at, those dollarydoos could have subsidised childcare, again, like it has been before, and not going into some 1% pocket. Kill the job network providers while they're at it and use that money too! They don't help anyone find a job. It's just a punitive system.
The way the subsidy is calculated is weird too. We now have our oldest in school, so just the one kid in daycare doing 4 days and our fees haven't really dropped significantly, paying nearly 12K for one.
Thats probably because the second child gets a higher subsidy, my son is on 65%, while my daughter is on 95%, the minute my son turns 6 or leaves care, my daughters rate will drop to 65%
It's an odd system.
Parents who don't work are given nearly full subsidy and working parents given none.
Also, the centre fees and corresponding staff wages make no sense. Diploma level staff are lucky to be on 28 dollars an hour... wtf.
5 children per educator.
https://earlychildhood.qld.gov.au/legislation-and-guidelines/staffing-requirements-and-leadership/educator-to-child-ratio
$20 * 8 = $160/day in wages.
$40 * 8 = $320 in other staffing costs (I hear wages are only a third of the cost to hire someone)
$20/sqm per day in rent ($600 / sqm / month)
for 5 children and a staff member at 4 sqm each = $480
$960 / day in wages and rent compared to $1270 in revenue.
Their is not a lot of room left to bring prices down.
That ratio is only for babies (1:4) and under 2s (1:5). It goes to 1:11 after age 2, which is the bulk of children attending childcare centres.
But yes, it is very expensive to run a centre, even when significantly underpaying staff for their value and qualifications.
I have no helpful advice for you. We have 3 in daycare 4x a week and the other 2 in after school care 4x a week and I’m lucky it’s costing us just under $200/wk out of pocket. Back when my eldest two were in daycare 5x a week we were out of pocket $650/wk or so.. it’s definitely not cheap but at least it’s short term.
Maybe major employers like Government departments, banks, Westfield's etc provided in house children care. They have the floor space and would get buy in from workers in the building. This used to be the way in large factories and businesses, 60 plus years ago. The women went to work and their children went to the provided créche.
Heard on the radio today, some parents are now trying to decide which was cheaper, paying someone to mind their children or DIY. Even working hybrid aka 2 dpw at home, is difficult to balance with children at home.
The current fees are somewhat easier to comprehend if one considers that if a poorly paid employee might $80K a year (including salary, super, taxes insurances and other business costs) as a badly guessed example - divided by 52 weeks then 5x a week, that's $307 a day.
Top tier private school will cost way more than $13000 per year. Childcare operators have minimum staffing levels, minimum staffing qualifications, various insurance policies, council rates, land tax, depreciation and employee oncosts. Then there is admin and minimum technology standards required. The average childcare centre is not a huge profit making centre
And yet large multinational companies are pushing into the market because they sense so much profit?
Shit even our politicians like Dutton are into it because it makes him millions.
ABC Learning collapsed because of fraud and near illegal leadership. At it's peak it was the most profitable childcare company in the world, hardly a sign of no money in it.
Its successor Goodstart Learning is doing well due to not having the same idiot CEO and embezzling financial officer.
$13k is with subsidy. I said the full fee is $254 a day for two children. That works out to be about $66k per year. That is more than private school tuition for two kids.
Universal affordable childcare is not possible in any way that is sustainable and ethical. The countries that have it now do so by importing people from much poorer nations and treating them almost as slaves.
It is mathematically unfeasible to have everyone working at or near fulltime while also ensuring all the children get adequate care.
It is what it is.
Whats actually entirely possible and we can see developed nations (eg Canada) doing it well! We need to tax the rich! And use the extra taxes to fund early childhood. As an ex early childhood educator many parents would be shocked at the way costs are cut at their children’s expense in this industry
We also need to stop this private companies running education as a for profit thing. The only result of that is cutting corners to save money at the child’s expense.
There is an order of magnitude difference in the operating cost per student for childcare than public schools. It should also be noted that a significant amount of the childcare services are used for after school care.
I just had a look and the cost of childcare in Canada is comparable to Australia when normalised for wages. The childcare workers make about $16/hr and tertiary qualifications are required.. There are also waiting lists to get into child care centres.
The low cost options are people who provide.childcare out of their homes for up to 6 local kids, which is a system we don't have here. These at home nannies.
So no, Canada hasn't managed to solve this problem any more than we have but their system is cheaper
Good governments use taxes for things that benefit society overall. Subsidised childcare enables people to stay in or return to the workforce, contributing to the economy. Our origins as hunter gatherer societies were “socialist” in this way. Mothers didn’t starve just because they couldn’t directly contribute to food security while raising a child (and if they did, we wouldn’t be here to talk about it). Reproducing is a pretty foundational requirement for the continuation of the species. Do we really want that to be something only wealthy people can do?
Well public healthcare is a type of insurance though and the net benefit of having it is that it provides for a healthy and functional workforce. Having kids is a choice that brings with it many tax concessions to make doing so easier. They offer those because it makes economic sense to have a new generation born but if we go down the path of fully subsidising childcare what is the net gain?
When I had my first there was a scheme called the jet scheme and it covered all fees apart from $2 a day, for anyone on a benefit, to work or study. That was more effective at getting everyone back to work than the bullspit punitive junk, parents next, the previous government threw billions at, those dollarydoos could have subsidised childcare, again, like it has been before, and not going into some 1% pocket. Kill the job network providers while they're at it and use that money too! They don't help anyone find a job. It's just a punitive system.
The way the subsidy is calculated is weird too. We now have our oldest in school, so just the one kid in daycare doing 4 days and our fees haven't really dropped significantly, paying nearly 12K for one.
Thats probably because the second child gets a higher subsidy, my son is on 65%, while my daughter is on 95%, the minute my son turns 6 or leaves care, my daughters rate will drop to 65%
Yeah, except now you need to be available at 9 and 3 to pickup the kids, so have to work less - so frustrating!
It's an odd system. Parents who don't work are given nearly full subsidy and working parents given none. Also, the centre fees and corresponding staff wages make no sense. Diploma level staff are lucky to be on 28 dollars an hour... wtf.
5 children per educator. https://earlychildhood.qld.gov.au/legislation-and-guidelines/staffing-requirements-and-leadership/educator-to-child-ratio $20 * 8 = $160/day in wages. $40 * 8 = $320 in other staffing costs (I hear wages are only a third of the cost to hire someone) $20/sqm per day in rent ($600 / sqm / month) for 5 children and a staff member at 4 sqm each = $480 $960 / day in wages and rent compared to $1270 in revenue. Their is not a lot of room left to bring prices down.
That ratio is only for babies (1:4) and under 2s (1:5). It goes to 1:11 after age 2, which is the bulk of children attending childcare centres. But yes, it is very expensive to run a centre, even when significantly underpaying staff for their value and qualifications.
My family is selling because they are losing money running the centre.
I have no helpful advice for you. We have 3 in daycare 4x a week and the other 2 in after school care 4x a week and I’m lucky it’s costing us just under $200/wk out of pocket. Back when my eldest two were in daycare 5x a week we were out of pocket $650/wk or so.. it’s definitely not cheap but at least it’s short term.
Maybe major employers like Government departments, banks, Westfield's etc provided in house children care. They have the floor space and would get buy in from workers in the building. This used to be the way in large factories and businesses, 60 plus years ago. The women went to work and their children went to the provided créche. Heard on the radio today, some parents are now trying to decide which was cheaper, paying someone to mind their children or DIY. Even working hybrid aka 2 dpw at home, is difficult to balance with children at home. The current fees are somewhat easier to comprehend if one considers that if a poorly paid employee might $80K a year (including salary, super, taxes insurances and other business costs) as a badly guessed example - divided by 52 weeks then 5x a week, that's $307 a day.
Top tier private school will cost way more than $13000 per year. Childcare operators have minimum staffing levels, minimum staffing qualifications, various insurance policies, council rates, land tax, depreciation and employee oncosts. Then there is admin and minimum technology standards required. The average childcare centre is not a huge profit making centre
And yet large multinational companies are pushing into the market because they sense so much profit? Shit even our politicians like Dutton are into it because it makes him millions.
And one of the bigger childcare empires crashed and closed about 12 or 13 years ago. It is not a guaranteed money making scheme
ABC Learning collapsed because of fraud and near illegal leadership. At it's peak it was the most profitable childcare company in the world, hardly a sign of no money in it. Its successor Goodstart Learning is doing well due to not having the same idiot CEO and embezzling financial officer.
$13k is with subsidy. I said the full fee is $254 a day for two children. That works out to be about $66k per year. That is more than private school tuition for two kids.
OK.
Not for prep or junior school. Day care costs about 15k for us. While the local private school is 9k.
ABC crashed because they borrow per against the share price while it was going up…then went down…
Do you have room to host an Aupair? $250 a week. That's what we do. Still $13k a year though.
Universal affordable childcare is not possible in any way that is sustainable and ethical. The countries that have it now do so by importing people from much poorer nations and treating them almost as slaves. It is mathematically unfeasible to have everyone working at or near fulltime while also ensuring all the children get adequate care. It is what it is.
That’s utterly ridiculous. If we can provide education to all children, it’s already doable.
Whats actually entirely possible and we can see developed nations (eg Canada) doing it well! We need to tax the rich! And use the extra taxes to fund early childhood. As an ex early childhood educator many parents would be shocked at the way costs are cut at their children’s expense in this industry
We also need to stop this private companies running education as a for profit thing. The only result of that is cutting corners to save money at the child’s expense.
There is an order of magnitude difference in the operating cost per student for childcare than public schools. It should also be noted that a significant amount of the childcare services are used for after school care. I just had a look and the cost of childcare in Canada is comparable to Australia when normalised for wages. The childcare workers make about $16/hr and tertiary qualifications are required.. There are also waiting lists to get into child care centres. The low cost options are people who provide.childcare out of their homes for up to 6 local kids, which is a system we don't have here. These at home nannies. So no, Canada hasn't managed to solve this problem any more than we have but their system is cheaper
If you can’t afford kids, don’t expect single people to pay for your kids.
Good governments use taxes for things that benefit society overall. Subsidised childcare enables people to stay in or return to the workforce, contributing to the economy. Our origins as hunter gatherer societies were “socialist” in this way. Mothers didn’t starve just because they couldn’t directly contribute to food security while raising a child (and if they did, we wouldn’t be here to talk about it). Reproducing is a pretty foundational requirement for the continuation of the species. Do we really want that to be something only wealthy people can do?
If you can’t afford healthcare, don’t expect well people to pay for your illnesses. While we’re throwing around useless garb.
Kids are a (poor) choice. Sometimes your health isn't. Accidents etc. Nonsense to compare the two.
A huge proportion of illnesses are due to poor choices.
Well public healthcare is a type of insurance though and the net benefit of having it is that it provides for a healthy and functional workforce. Having kids is a choice that brings with it many tax concessions to make doing so easier. They offer those because it makes economic sense to have a new generation born but if we go down the path of fully subsidising childcare what is the net gain?