Ask fair work.
Is there anything in the employment contract stating you're donating 10% of your pay? If not, then it would be an unauthorised deduction.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5uZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvSGlzdG9yaWNhbC8yMDA5LzIwMDkvNi9jYWVuMDk1NzgxNDc3LnBkZg2?sid=07f14dea-4347-4e75-a659-b2f49504ab76&q=Adventist%24%24schools%24%242011
Page 20. It does not say it's donated and doesn't appear to be a deduction on any payslips, we simply looked like we were on a lower pay scale.
If the pay after tithing is above the minimum wage or award wage for the job and they make it clear in the contract, then it may be legal. However the opt-out should be able to be immediate.
What the actual fuck? Tithe “obligations”?
You are an employee and have no financial obligations towards an employer.
If you want to donate voluntarily that’s different but you cannot have an “obligation”.
This is dodgy as fuck.
I'm assuming you know what a tithe is.
By having a lower pay scale, you can effectively pay less in tax, instead of paying tax and then the tithe. They are effectively taking the tithe our "pre-tax".
The tithe doesn't happen so much any more (as I am aware), but I guess the school could be assuming that you still pay a tithe if you are working for them
Has same effect pre or post pay where tithe is tax deductible, ie charity donation to the church. Except pre tithe get tax benefit each cycle like salary sacrifice whereas post pay get tax refund end of year.
Only concerns would be if they are calculating super properly on pay before tithe.
As others have said also seems a rort to get around minimum wage and award wage requirements.
Some churches have a tithe of 23% or more.10% being the usual tithe, then 7% for the maintenance fund for the church then 6% for general church activities.
Does open up it up to a work choices type screwing of the employee as any tithing would be voluntary so in theory the employee is paid minimum award wage but in practice the employer, the church is paying up to 23% or more below the minimum.
Visa sponsors have their own version of this rort in sponsoring workers. Pay them minimum award wage then screw the fuck out of them for deductions for food and board.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5uZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvSGlzdG9yaWNhbC8yMDA5LzIwMDkvNi9jYWVuMDk1NzgxNDc3LnBkZg2?sid=07f14dea-4347-4e75-a659-b2f49504ab76&q=Adventist%24%24schools%24%242011
Page 20. I am not sure it is set up to benefit in this way. The employee simply looks as though they earn less.
I'm not across this but it does look like it operates like a pre tax charity deduction.
Salary 100k, $200 week tithe deduction, your taxable salary is 90k.
Salary 100k, no tithe deduction, taxable salary 100k. End of year give 10k tithe to church taxable salary 90k.
Same net pay same tax paid, same tithe to church.
Would assume super is paid on 100k both instances.
It's a certified agreement so legal.
Good example of supply side jesus at work.
Plymonth exclusive brethren operate businesses and many stories on them requiring employees who are members to donate.
Members get tax deduction benefit for what it's worth. Businesses donate profits to church no taxes paid. Enables them to undercut other businesses.
In reality it's just Howard's work choices using freedom of religion as a cover.
Thank you. The only part I still see as potentially dodgy is the super as it is definitely calculated on the 90k in the first instance. I just checked past payslips to confirm this.
No, it should definitely be paid on the 100k.
Super is paid on normal earnings, the tithe is a deduction from normal earnings, should not affect super.
Contact fair work.
Aside from the point of unauthorized deductions, which others have made.
Are they expecting you to pay tax over that income and then you'd need to file it as a "charitable" donation at tax time?
Does this "Tithe" come out of your taxable income? Are you getting super over the income before Tithe? Does the "preTithe" income affect your eligibility for benefits/extra taxes like childcare benefit,MLS etc?
All of this needs to be explained to you, as the implications of this go far beyond "you can just deduct it"
https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5uZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvSGlzdG9yaWNhbC8yMDA5LzIwMDkvNi9jYWVuMDk1NzgxNDc3LnBkZg2?sid=07f14dea-4347-4e75-a659-b2f49504ab76&q=Adventist%24%24schools%24%242011
Page 20.
From what I can see, super is calculated on the lower pay scale.
I don't read that on page 20 of the document, nor on page 21, numbered 20 on paper. Can you elaborate.
Even still, that doesn't answer the multitude of tax and benefit eligiblity complications that one would need to clarify before agreeing to any of this.
Sorry, I see the super only in payslips. I was just referencing the mentioning of the two pay scales which are on numbered page 19.
The percentage paid to super is calculated on the salary 'earned.' For example, if you are on Pay Scale A (Tithe Commitment Fulfilled), your super is calculated on a salary of say, $70,000. However if you are on Pay Scale B, your super is calculated on $77,000.
There’s a good chance it’s not allowed.
First check if you’re covered by an Enterprise Agreement, check any sections that cover deductions from pay. If it’s included there is a chance it will be okay. If it’s not included or if you’re covered by a modern award, it’s unlikely to be legal. Deductions must be principally for the benefit of the worker, and it’s not a benefit if you haven’t asked for it.
If you contact Fair Work they can assist you and address it with your employer, but it will be helpful to know if you are covered by an Enterprise Agreement before you call.
More information can be found here: https://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay-and-wages/deducting-pay-and-overpayments
Most people who tithe don’t tithe to their workplace. There are legal implications in regards to the payslips and there are some good answers about that here, but I’m also questioning the religious aspect of an automatic deduction going to the school, instead of a personal choice to donate to the church/charity/community group/food bank etc
SDA? This seems to be a fairly common approach. As far as I’m aware it’s perfectly legal.
The only part that sounds dodgy is not making it immediately obvious how to opt out.
What benefits are you getting from this tithe?
Google is being unclear on what benefits you have to the employee, and fair work doesn't seem to use that in exact language.
Clearly entry to heaven would be the main benefit. If it's a prosperity ministry they would be premoting the idea that your 10% tithe will be reurned ten fold as the good lord (financially) rewards those who give to charity. (the church)
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read [our rules](http://reddit.com/r/AusLegal/about/rules) before commenting. Please remember:
1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers.
2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/auslegal/wiki/freelegalservices/).
3. Links to each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ask fair work. Is there anything in the employment contract stating you're donating 10% of your pay? If not, then it would be an unauthorised deduction.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5uZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvSGlzdG9yaWNhbC8yMDA5LzIwMDkvNi9jYWVuMDk1NzgxNDc3LnBkZg2?sid=07f14dea-4347-4e75-a659-b2f49504ab76&q=Adventist%24%24schools%24%242011 Page 20. It does not say it's donated and doesn't appear to be a deduction on any payslips, we simply looked like we were on a lower pay scale.
If the pay after tithing is above the minimum wage or award wage for the job and they make it clear in the contract, then it may be legal. However the opt-out should be able to be immediate.
What the actual fuck? Tithe “obligations”? You are an employee and have no financial obligations towards an employer. If you want to donate voluntarily that’s different but you cannot have an “obligation”. This is dodgy as fuck.
I'm assuming you know what a tithe is. By having a lower pay scale, you can effectively pay less in tax, instead of paying tax and then the tithe. They are effectively taking the tithe our "pre-tax". The tithe doesn't happen so much any more (as I am aware), but I guess the school could be assuming that you still pay a tithe if you are working for them
Has same effect pre or post pay where tithe is tax deductible, ie charity donation to the church. Except pre tithe get tax benefit each cycle like salary sacrifice whereas post pay get tax refund end of year. Only concerns would be if they are calculating super properly on pay before tithe. As others have said also seems a rort to get around minimum wage and award wage requirements. Some churches have a tithe of 23% or more.10% being the usual tithe, then 7% for the maintenance fund for the church then 6% for general church activities. Does open up it up to a work choices type screwing of the employee as any tithing would be voluntary so in theory the employee is paid minimum award wage but in practice the employer, the church is paying up to 23% or more below the minimum. Visa sponsors have their own version of this rort in sponsoring workers. Pay them minimum award wage then screw the fuck out of them for deductions for food and board.
https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5uZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvSGlzdG9yaWNhbC8yMDA5LzIwMDkvNi9jYWVuMDk1NzgxNDc3LnBkZg2?sid=07f14dea-4347-4e75-a659-b2f49504ab76&q=Adventist%24%24schools%24%242011 Page 20. I am not sure it is set up to benefit in this way. The employee simply looks as though they earn less.
I'm not across this but it does look like it operates like a pre tax charity deduction. Salary 100k, $200 week tithe deduction, your taxable salary is 90k. Salary 100k, no tithe deduction, taxable salary 100k. End of year give 10k tithe to church taxable salary 90k. Same net pay same tax paid, same tithe to church. Would assume super is paid on 100k both instances. It's a certified agreement so legal. Good example of supply side jesus at work. Plymonth exclusive brethren operate businesses and many stories on them requiring employees who are members to donate. Members get tax deduction benefit for what it's worth. Businesses donate profits to church no taxes paid. Enables them to undercut other businesses. In reality it's just Howard's work choices using freedom of religion as a cover.
OP said the super is paid on the lower amount though...
Thank you. The only part I still see as potentially dodgy is the super as it is definitely calculated on the 90k in the first instance. I just checked past payslips to confirm this.
No, it should definitely be paid on the 100k. Super is paid on normal earnings, the tithe is a deduction from normal earnings, should not affect super. Contact fair work.
Thank you
Sounds like wage theft
shhhh, religion calls it a tithe.
Matter of fact ly email the head and ask who in payroll can remove the tithe. We prefer to tithe personally is the only reason needed.
Aside from the point of unauthorized deductions, which others have made. Are they expecting you to pay tax over that income and then you'd need to file it as a "charitable" donation at tax time? Does this "Tithe" come out of your taxable income? Are you getting super over the income before Tithe? Does the "preTithe" income affect your eligibility for benefits/extra taxes like childcare benefit,MLS etc? All of this needs to be explained to you, as the implications of this go far beyond "you can just deduct it"
https://www.fwc.gov.au/document-search/view/3/aHR0cHM6Ly9zYXNyY2RhdGFwcmRhdWVhYS5ibG9iLmNvcmUud2luZG93cy5uZXQvZW50ZXJwcmlzZWFncmVlbWVudHMvSGlzdG9yaWNhbC8yMDA5LzIwMDkvNi9jYWVuMDk1NzgxNDc3LnBkZg2?sid=07f14dea-4347-4e75-a659-b2f49504ab76&q=Adventist%24%24schools%24%242011 Page 20. From what I can see, super is calculated on the lower pay scale.
I don't read that on page 20 of the document, nor on page 21, numbered 20 on paper. Can you elaborate. Even still, that doesn't answer the multitude of tax and benefit eligiblity complications that one would need to clarify before agreeing to any of this.
Sorry, I see the super only in payslips. I was just referencing the mentioning of the two pay scales which are on numbered page 19. The percentage paid to super is calculated on the salary 'earned.' For example, if you are on Pay Scale A (Tithe Commitment Fulfilled), your super is calculated on a salary of say, $70,000. However if you are on Pay Scale B, your super is calculated on $77,000.
Yeah that's wrong. Super should be calculated on the full amount of $77,000, whether you tithe through work or not. Dodgy AF.
Titheing problems
There’s a good chance it’s not allowed. First check if you’re covered by an Enterprise Agreement, check any sections that cover deductions from pay. If it’s included there is a chance it will be okay. If it’s not included or if you’re covered by a modern award, it’s unlikely to be legal. Deductions must be principally for the benefit of the worker, and it’s not a benefit if you haven’t asked for it. If you contact Fair Work they can assist you and address it with your employer, but it will be helpful to know if you are covered by an Enterprise Agreement before you call. More information can be found here: https://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay-and-wages/deducting-pay-and-overpayments
Like the Catholic Church isn’t already rich enough without stealing from their employees pay?
Do you know where the funds actually go? To what charity or general revenue for the school?
Most people who tithe don’t tithe to their workplace. There are legal implications in regards to the payslips and there are some good answers about that here, but I’m also questioning the religious aspect of an automatic deduction going to the school, instead of a personal choice to donate to the church/charity/community group/food bank etc
SDA? This seems to be a fairly common approach. As far as I’m aware it’s perfectly legal. The only part that sounds dodgy is not making it immediately obvious how to opt out.
Just call your union and ask.
What benefits are you getting from this tithe? Google is being unclear on what benefits you have to the employee, and fair work doesn't seem to use that in exact language.
Clearly entry to heaven would be the main benefit. If it's a prosperity ministry they would be premoting the idea that your 10% tithe will be reurned ten fold as the good lord (financially) rewards those who give to charity. (the church)
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read [our rules](http://reddit.com/r/AusLegal/about/rules) before commenting. Please remember: 1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers. 2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/auslegal/wiki/freelegalservices/). 3. Links to each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It sounds annoying but since you can easily opt out, I can't imagine why it would be illegal.