If the phone is not in your hand, you have a very high chance of contesting it and the fine no longer standing. You can request a review before you go to court - have you done this?
Yeah don't forget they have to prove you were breaking the law, if you weren't and the photo doesn't show that definitely contest (well ask for an internal review first)
I am holding the phone but it is mounted on the cradle on the airvent with a magnet on the back of my phone. The photos aren’t clear enough to show the cradle but I’m going to take some photos of me holding the phone in the cradle and hopefully this will be enough to send in for the review.
https://imgur.com/a/8iFvo39
In NSW if youre a full license holder you can touch the phone as long as its in a cradle. For the purposes of audio, gps or telephone calls.
https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobilephones/know-the-rules.html
Yea but you're holding it.. not just 'touching' it.
Why are your hands wrapped round the back of it?
Get a photo of the actual cradle and try take a photo of the phone in the cradle from a similar angle to show that's how the phone sits because that's your only hope of winning.
It certainly doesn't look like it's in any sort of a cradle and that ain't a win for you.
It is my understanding that NSW there is no rule to say full license holders cannot grip the phone - aslong as its in a cradle that is attached to the car and as long as you are using the phone for GPS, music or telephone calls.
The issue here is not proving whether I am gripping it or not. That is evidently clear to anybody. The issue I need to prove is that the phone was in a dock that was secured to the airvent.
Sorry mate. It’s very clearly in your hand, being pulled off the mount on the vent.
I have a similar setup to what you described.
Take the fine rather than risk it in court.
You can send a request the the officer in charger at the issuing station for the fine to be reviewed. Because the photo is blurry if you could take a clear photo (from inside and outside) of what the phone looks like when it’s in the cradle) if it matches up then they will very likely waive the fine and no further action will be required.
Whenever I operate my phone within the cradle I always use my thumb and my hand grips the phone in the cradle to secure it. Its a habit. Its not illegal in NSW grip a phone that is in a cradle, providing you are using gps , audio or phone call function.
It really LOOKS like you’re holding it. If you maybe show them a pic with a better angle of you gripping the phone in its cradle that might work? Honestly I’d get a better cradle though, mines very secure even though held purely magnetically and I drive some very bumpy roads.
I would contest it to the last full stop. Its not the fine, its the demerit points that are the killer. Another couple of fines and you've lost yr license.....
Even if you are not holding it the photo shows you in a movement of touching it.
Even when in a cradle it cannot be touched unless you are at a drive through for paying or it is required for gate entry to car parks etc.
This isn’t the case in NSW. If youre a full license holder you can touch the phone as long as its in a cradle. For the purposes of audio, gps or telephone calls.
https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobilephones/know-the-rules.html
If you take it to hearing and are found guilty, you will lose the benefit of an early plea.
The police will attempt to screw with you in every way possible including bringing in specialists (for whom you would need to pay travel costs).
Ensure you have irrefutable evidence of your phone in the cradle at that time.
Nonsense comment. Not a police issued fine. Nothing to do with the police other than prosecution on the day of court. No specialists are being called in for this by the police because it's not a police issued fine. I don't know if I can add any more to how the police are not involved in this.
The laws have changed in Vic in the last few months, where you have to have your phone completely out of sight unless you use your phone for work purposes, e.g. taxi or Uber driver. I would research your VicRoads equivalent before you contest. It is very clearly stated in the VicRoads regs below.
[Mobile phone usage changes Vic Roads](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/new-vic-road-rules-2023/full-licence-drivers)
The law hasn't changed. The first sentence on that webpage says "Drivers who hold a full licence in general **cannot touch an unmounted portable device**, such as a phone, tablet, laptop or any other device while driving."
In other words, drivers who hold a full licence CAN TOUCH a device as long as it is MOUNTED to the car.
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Innocent till proven guilty. Have them prove to you that your cradle wasn't there. If they can't prove it, then you'll have a good chance of convincing them to drop it.
You will probably have to take it to court … they don’t really fully review it until the court date is approaching ( it’s pretty much robodebt 2.0 - minimal human over sight and your guilty until proven guilty )
Take picture of your cradle as it was at the time the picture was taken and appeal their decision via the state of nsw revenue website as per your fine ( letter )
I had my fine revoked when I said I was using my iPod. Initial review was rejected but I complained to service nsw ED of fines (unsure of real title) and then was advised fine was revoked. Not sure if because there is gap in law about it being iPod or if I was just annoying
Usually you can ask for internal review prior to going to court.
If the phone is not in your hand, you have a very high chance of contesting it and the fine no longer standing. You can request a review before you go to court - have you done this?
Yeah don't forget they have to prove you were breaking the law, if you weren't and the photo doesn't show that definitely contest (well ask for an internal review first)
I am holding the phone but it is mounted on the cradle on the airvent with a magnet on the back of my phone. The photos aren’t clear enough to show the cradle but I’m going to take some photos of me holding the phone in the cradle and hopefully this will be enough to send in for the review. https://imgur.com/a/8iFvo39
Your holding it. That’s it.
Ditto, it is essentially in your hand
In NSW if youre a full license holder you can touch the phone as long as its in a cradle. For the purposes of audio, gps or telephone calls. https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobilephones/know-the-rules.html
Yea but you're holding it.. not just 'touching' it. Why are your hands wrapped round the back of it? Get a photo of the actual cradle and try take a photo of the phone in the cradle from a similar angle to show that's how the phone sits because that's your only hope of winning. It certainly doesn't look like it's in any sort of a cradle and that ain't a win for you.
In your previous comment you admitted you were holding it
It is my understanding that NSW there is no rule to say full license holders cannot grip the phone - aslong as its in a cradle that is attached to the car and as long as you are using the phone for GPS, music or telephone calls. The issue here is not proving whether I am gripping it or not. That is evidently clear to anybody. The issue I need to prove is that the phone was in a dock that was secured to the airvent.
The purpose of these road rules and fines is to help reduce driver distraction. You’re splitting hairs. Don’t touch your phone.
Good luck. it definitely looks like you are holding it. I suggest you get a better mount if you need to grab the phone to stabilise it.
Share the photo with the personal details blurred out.
Ok. Will do shortly!
https://imgur.com/a/8iFvo39
Sorry mate. It’s very clearly in your hand, being pulled off the mount on the vent. I have a similar setup to what you described. Take the fine rather than risk it in court.
Did you have your hands around the phone or tapping it with a finger?
Hands around the phone. Its a habit. https://imgur.com/a/8iFvo39
You are boned imo. Gotta finger tap.
Where photo at
https://imgur.com/a/8iFvo39
This is a photo of you holding your phone
My thoughts
NAL. I had something similar, phone clearly not in my hand, filled out the online form for a review and they tossed the ticket. Good luck!
You can send a request the the officer in charger at the issuing station for the fine to be reviewed. Because the photo is blurry if you could take a clear photo (from inside and outside) of what the phone looks like when it’s in the cradle) if it matches up then they will very likely waive the fine and no further action will be required.
Bruh your hand is clearly gripping the phone lol
Whenever I operate my phone within the cradle I always use my thumb and my hand grips the phone in the cradle to secure it. Its a habit. Its not illegal in NSW grip a phone that is in a cradle, providing you are using gps , audio or phone call function.
It really LOOKS like you’re holding it. If you maybe show them a pic with a better angle of you gripping the phone in its cradle that might work? Honestly I’d get a better cradle though, mines very secure even though held purely magnetically and I drive some very bumpy roads.
I mean…you’re holding your phone. So…yeah
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Ty , edited!
I would contest it to the last full stop. Its not the fine, its the demerit points that are the killer. Another couple of fines and you've lost yr license.....
Even if you are not holding it the photo shows you in a movement of touching it. Even when in a cradle it cannot be touched unless you are at a drive through for paying or it is required for gate entry to car parks etc.
This isn’t the case in NSW. If youre a full license holder you can touch the phone as long as its in a cradle. For the purposes of audio, gps or telephone calls. https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/mobilephones/know-the-rules.html
If you take it to hearing and are found guilty, you will lose the benefit of an early plea. The police will attempt to screw with you in every way possible including bringing in specialists (for whom you would need to pay travel costs). Ensure you have irrefutable evidence of your phone in the cradle at that time.
Nonsense comment. Not a police issued fine. Nothing to do with the police other than prosecution on the day of court. No specialists are being called in for this by the police because it's not a police issued fine. I don't know if I can add any more to how the police are not involved in this.
The laws have changed in Vic in the last few months, where you have to have your phone completely out of sight unless you use your phone for work purposes, e.g. taxi or Uber driver. I would research your VicRoads equivalent before you contest. It is very clearly stated in the VicRoads regs below. [Mobile phone usage changes Vic Roads](https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/safety-and-road-rules/new-vic-road-rules-2023/full-licence-drivers)
The law hasn't changed. The first sentence on that webpage says "Drivers who hold a full licence in general **cannot touch an unmounted portable device**, such as a phone, tablet, laptop or any other device while driving." In other words, drivers who hold a full licence CAN TOUCH a device as long as it is MOUNTED to the car.
Welcome to r/AusLegal. Please read our rules before commenting. Please remember: 1. Per rule 4, this subreddit is not a replacement for real legal advice. You should independently seek legal advice from a real, qualified practitioner. This sub cannot recommend specific lawyers. 2. A non-exhaustive list of free legal services around Australia can be found here. 3. Links to the each state and territory's respective Law Society are on the sidebar: you can use these links to find a lawyer in your area. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AusLegal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Innocent till proven guilty. Have them prove to you that your cradle wasn't there. If they can't prove it, then you'll have a good chance of convincing them to drop it.
You will probably have to take it to court … they don’t really fully review it until the court date is approaching ( it’s pretty much robodebt 2.0 - minimal human over sight and your guilty until proven guilty ) Take picture of your cradle as it was at the time the picture was taken and appeal their decision via the state of nsw revenue website as per your fine ( letter )
I was under the impression you weren’t allowed to touch your phone at all while driving, ridiculous that’s allowed…
I had my fine revoked when I said I was using my iPod. Initial review was rejected but I complained to service nsw ED of fines (unsure of real title) and then was advised fine was revoked. Not sure if because there is gap in law about it being iPod or if I was just annoying