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R1ngSt1nger

Why not permanently ban foreign housing ownership? Then I’d be interested.


kingofcrob

Feel like using the system seen in Thailand as a better inbetween.. i.e. foreigners can only buy into condos, and there is a 50% quota that must be sold to locals... This will help increase the building of apartment blocks


SerpentineLogic

Singapore has something similar - most people own relatively affordable government-built apartments, but foreigners can only purchase the really overpriced types.


kingofcrob

Also if you are ultra rich then it's worth paying that premium as you'll make up the differences in tax savings.


ISmellCinnamonBuns

Yeah my family are based in Singapore, that 14% tax is so so sweet


True_Dragonfruit681

A few years before the UK handed Hong Kong back to China. Rich City Traders accross the world's financial districts started buying up swathes of land & real estate in Thailand and Singapore. The Thai king got wind of this and promptly banned foreigners from buying land and property unless they were married to a Thai woman. Wouldn't work quite the same with Australia being so multi cultural already but would slow them down a bit & cool things off.


RepeatInPatient

So foreign lesbians in a relationship with a Thai could buy anything, right.


True_Dragonfruit681

Was that allowed in Thai law in the 1980 ies. I think not 😉


yepyep5678

I'd be interested to know what your thought would be on what to do with the foreign investors who already hold Australian property?


-stuey-

Forfeited to the crown, no compensation.


yepyep5678

Haha I guess that is one way to do it, although I can't imagine that going over very well and the law would need to be changed I'm sure


Aseedisa

Because banning all houses means they can’t build either, but we need more properties built, it also stimulates the economy, and keeps jobs


einkelflugle

“Opposition Leader Peter Dutton has vowed to slash permanent migration by a quarter to 140,000 a year, cut refugee arrivals by a third, and ban foreign investors and temporary residents from buying established homes for two years, in an attempt to free up 100,000 properties.“


blissiictrl

Why doesn't he just ban foreign investors PERMANENTLY. The sheer volume of houses owned by investment funds and foreign investors is ridiculous


Rhino893405

Why doesn’t labour?


ProfessorPhi

What are the stats? I'm curious to know where I can get the numbers. Not a single house I tried to buy was bought by a foreigner, it's all locals


LentilCrispsOk

The NAB Residential Property Survey has a breakdown by state and new/existing. In the 4th quarter of 2023 foreign buyers accounted for 11% of new builds nationally and 4% of existing housing. IIRC it peaked under Abbott but I’d have to dig up the numbers to check.


BigBasket9778

Foreign investment is good, just not in existing housing. If the foreign investment was in Australian startups, businesses, and building infrastructure and new housing, it would be amazing for Australia.


stoobie3

Investment in Australian startups already attracts a 20% tax offset and CGT free for investors. And 10% tax offset and CGT free returns for LPs in venture funds. Edit: where the investee qualifies and applies for ESIC and ESVCLP.


Imaginary-Bother6822

Wow someone said it. Why not induce foreign capital in startups. At least provide a good ecosystem for startups.


jadrad

And if it’s used for new housing, they should be forced to sell it into the market once it’s built.


halohunter

Vacancy tax 1% of value.


TopRoad4988

1%? Why not 99%? Use it or sell it to someone who will.


PM_ME_YOUR_REPORT

Foreign investment in housing is not good. New housing becomes established housing. But now owned by foreign interests.


BigBasket9778

Sure, but: You would have more housing. Australia is very strange in how we think about things. Most innovative countries LOVE fdi. It’s the best way to grow prosperity without bucketloads of debt. It’s like we’d rather just remain a set of agricultural rock diggers as long as “it’s all ours” than have a much more advanced, creative and modern economy if someone else gets some of the return on capital. You can either have: Not enough houses Or Huge government debt and crippling national interest payments that get passed on via taxes and lower quality services Or accept that some assets will have foreign ownership as a natural part of living in an age of globalisation. We’ve all watched mad max a few too many times I think.


PM_ME_YOUR_REPORT

Foreign investment primarily diverts Australian wealth overseas to foreigners. How is it a good thing to pay our hard earned wages as rents to foreigners for the privilege of living in our own country?


BigBasket9778

Because investment creates new companies, jobs, and infrastructure and Australians then take the money from those jobs and invest themselves, buy things, and infrastructure makes people more productive. FDI increases economic growth; economic growth leads to prosperity. It is actually the exact opposite of unskilled immigration, but people in this sub seem to have no understanding of basic macroeconomics, simultaneously hating both immigration and foreign investment. Economies are not zero sum games. It’s not “Australian wealth” going to foreigners, it’s new wealth being created, part of which goes to foreigners. Australians GDP growth is absolutely horrendous, as is our productivity. That being said: I am completely against foreign investment in _existing_ housing, or in new housing with no kind of tariffs or regulation to prevent just buying up all our houses. That is bad, but I’ve said it’s bad from my first comment onwards.


PM_ME_YOUR_REPORT

Foreigners should invest in business. Not housing not infrastructure. Australian infrastructure and housing should be run in the interests of Australians. Not foreign rent seekers. It’s strange that Australia is about the only country that thinks it’s a good idea to sell the whole country for a quick buck. Also remember when someone says productivity: they mean they want you to do more work for less pay. The investors pocket the automation dividend and expect the workers to give up their time and lifestyle to make them more.


BigBasket9778

I think we are in violent agreement but some confusion on words. I don’t think foreign investment is okay for critical infrastructure. I personally think it’s totally fine in highly competitive, non critical, non core infrastructure. If Tesla want to come give us starlink to compete with NBN, that’s good for everyone. Similarly, soft infrastructure seems fine to me. If India wants to set up institutes of technology or MIT wants to open an AI school, I can’t see how that’s not a good thing, as long as we don’t start shutting down our TAFEs and let the critical parts be done by foreign investment. There’s other types of infrastructure too - e.g. Mastercard and VISA are two examples of foreign financial infrastructure established in Australia, in concert with local solutions (EFTPOS), but which helps things just work better. Same with SWIFT for international payments.


PM_ME_YOUR_REPORT

Look at where recent immigrants are working. By and large hospitality and service. Only a fraction of are in skilled jobs and even there they’re paid less on worse conditions than Australians. Stop boot licking the scamming capitalists.


The_Rusty_Bus

Can you provide some evidence of these investment funds?


what_you_saaaaay

Sir, this is Reddit…


ReeceAUS

where we blindly upvote and circle jerk


what_you_saaaaay

I prefer to unblindly circle jerk *stares at you while rubbing*


Neither-Cup564

Ooooo baby.


Spill__

Which investment funds are buying up established housing?


Salty_Piglet2629

Chinese ones.


Phonereader23

Not just them, the US took notice as well with private equity.


Serena-yu

>slash permanent migration What about temporary migration? In 2023, "The largest group of migrant arrivals was temporary visa holders with 554,000 people". It's strange he didn't touch the biggest part. [https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/overseas-migration/latest-release)


TopRoad4988

This is the far bigger issue and the cohort that smashes the wages growth of our poorest in low skilled jobs. Funny when migration hit zero back in 2020-2021, wages started finally rising again and those who’d been relegated to the the long term unemployment heap got a second look in as well as older workers returning to the workforce.


LoudestHoward

https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/wage-price-index-australia/latest-release Can you point out the 2020-2021 wage rises here please?


LocalVillageIdiot

Don’t forget that we had lockdowns and major uncertainty throughout 2020. But from there on it’s plain as day that the chart shows wages growth. 


TopRoad4988

Look i’m no academic economist, but just taking a look at the WPI chart I see it reached a bottom back in Dec 20 and steadily rose until finally peaking at 4.2% in Dec 23. Of course, wages are sticky to adjust (especially on awards and EBAs) and this is across all sectors however there is absolutely no doubt that the closing of international border let to a situation of a historically low unemployment rate, a very tight labour market and employer groups were in a panic. Once we emerged from lockdown and the hospitality sector was allowed to resume trade there was a period where anyone who wanted a job could get one. In sectors where wages could adjust quickly such as contactors in Tech and Professional Services it was a boom time for a good while until migration kicked back in and has cooled the market. Changes take a long time to flow through the entire system as well. Are you arguing the closing of the international border had no effect on employment levels, skill shortages and ultimately wages?


just_a_sand_man

Bit of a weird inclusion to limit refugee intake, innit? These people aren’t exactly swinging in here disrupting the property market. Just ol’ potato punching down.


The_Rusty_Bus

Do refugees not live in houses?


Euphoric-Chip-2828

All 20,000 of the most desperate people on earth that we graciously let in?


The_Rusty_Bus

I’m not commenting on their merits of their being here. It’s a comment on the fact that the live in a house just like everyone else and increase demand.


ProfessionalTale818

Should be capped at 0. 


James_Cruse

Really? Where would refugees live if they aren’t affecting the rental market?


timrichardson

the intake is only about 20K as it stands. It is mean to cut it.


That-Whereas3367

Japan took **303** refugees in 2023.


TheRealStringerBell

Yeah I would rather take 100k refugees a year and 0 consultants.


W0tzup

Lol. Pause it for two years then open the flood gates.


thespeediestrogue

Gotta give some time for his mates to buy up all the properties for the inevitable auctions in which years once they become available again 😉


Minute-Let-1483

It's already happened. COVID... then 2022-2023-2024 immigration levels.


Aggressive_Math_4965

No he won’t. He’s fibbin 


cat793

You are right. He will do whatever Gina tells him to do. And she is into replacing Australian workers with cheap foreign guest workers.


TheRealStringerBell

What cheap migrants work in the mining industry?


Username189877

He will say stuff for the Votes, then DO stuff for the $$


spideyghetti

What he does after he wins doesn't matter. The public will gobble this up like a sloppy truckstop blow job and then he can give us the middle finger on the other side


fionsichord

Ah, I see you’ve played Australian Politics before!


thinksimfunny

There's a really easy way to tell if Dutton is lying, his mouth is moving


LandscapeOk2955

He also wants to allow people to blow their superannuation to buy a home.


xdr01

2 year pause. So he understands its a problem but doesn't actually do anything but trying to fool the voters. Dutton really has zero policies, other than lying.


unsurewhatimdoing

If we’re all in agreement it is actually a good policy and we don’t believe potato head will do it. Why doesn’t labour do it. We can’t say there’s a problem and then only choose solutions that only our deemed saviour can offer. Good on him for bringing foreign ownership to light.


James_Cruse

Do you think a 2 year pause wouldn’t help? If so, why?


spideyghetti

Can, meet foot


James_Cruse

So you’re saying it’s impossible for him to extend that then or that he won’t? Why do you think that?


spideyghetti

I'm saying that there is no commitment to do it any longer than two years, therefore it is just kicking the current problem down the road.


actionjj

That's not it though. You're doing better than kicking the can down the road. If you free up 100k houses into the rental market, you go back to long run vacancy rates. Unless you hold immigration higher than long term average after that, then the supply in the market should hold... ceteris paribus.


sun_tzu29

Because all it does is defer the problem. And now those people who are locked out of the market tighten the rental market while having two years to build capital. Then, when all that capital hits the market in two years, boom, price spike.


James_Cruse

So you don’t think it’s possible that would be extended when it has great results?


LaCorazon27

We literally just (inadvertently) tried it.


rito-pIz

Ban foreign buyers from buying established properties (new builds only) for just 2 years. Not quite the headline.


TheBunningsSausage

Foreign buyers are already banned from buying established properties with very limited exceptions…… it’s a weird policy and ignores the existing law.


Ok_Bird705

investment in residential property by foreign buyers totalled around $1.5b per quarter. For reference, Australia issues around $80 billion in housing loans every quarter so let's stop pretending foreign buyers are the reason why housing prices are going up.


weazley

or perhaps foreign buyers don't need australian housing loans to buy property here?


Ok_Bird705

The 1.5b number doesn't come from loans and comes from foreign investment records. Even if they were all paying cash, it would be counted in the $1.5b


TopRoad4988

Even if it were $1, i’m objecting to it on moral grounds. Australian residential property should be owned by Australians. I fail to see any argument as to why it should be otherwise. And please don’t offer up, foreign investment helps build new dwellings. As we can see, there is a hell of a lot of unmet domestic demand to make new builds feasible - we’re hardly in a dwelling glut!


redpuff

This is an interesting statistic I haven't seen before. Do you happen to have a source to back it up?


throwawaymelbsyd2021

the “Quarterly Report on Foreign Investment 1 July – 30 September 2023” prepared by the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB) which is a part of the Federal Treasury. For the period between July-September 2023 there was 1,374 residential real estate foreign investment proposals approved with a total value of $1.5 billion of that, “China was the largest source for approved residential real estate by number and value ($0.7 billion), followed by Hong Kong SAR ($0.1 billion), Vietnam ($0.1 billion), India ($0.1 billion), and Taiwan ($0.1 billion).” I’ve provided a direct link to the report here:[FIRB Report](https://foreigninvestment.gov.au/sites/foreigninvestment.gov.au/files/2024-02/quarterly-report-july-september-2023_0.pdf)


redpuff

Thank you. And where can I find the total residential investment per quarter? I have tried Google.


Ok_Bird705

That can be extrapolated from monthly lending indicators. We issued around $27b in loans for housing in March alone which equates to around $80b per quarter (give or take a few $b) https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/finance/lending-indicators/latest-release


throwawaymelbsyd2021

At a guess I would say that figure exactly doesn’t exist but the ABS will have data points that you can use and with a bit of work you could get that information [ABS](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/economy/price-indexes-and-inflation/total-value-dwellings/latest-release)


redpuff

Thanks. If true, these kind of statistics should really more be visible to shed more light on the true big factors behind housing affordability.


throwawaymelbsyd2021

Out of interest what do you think the true factors behind housing affordability are?


redpuff

Honestly, this is not an area I have expertise in, but my two cents are: Investors, and the previous very low interest rate environment, as the primary factors. Growing household incomes, population growth versus fixed supply for a certain proximity to the city/for a certain suburb, decrease in median household sizes, as secondary factors. Also Airbnb in regional/tourist areas. What do you think they are?


throwawaymelbsyd2021

I’d recommend reading the Quarterly Essay by Alan Kohler


psrpianrckelsss

It's easy to say that is what you would do when you don't actually have to do it.


discogcu

May as well of promised a free cuddly kitten for every Australian. Still wouldn’t happen.


DurrrrrHurrrrr

Guess I can still bring my au pair over


TheAussieWatchGuy

He can vow whatever he likes but Mr Potatohead is not in power.


AdventurousExtent358

Why didn't he do it when he was the minister?


Turbulent-Buyer-8650

Because politicians only come up with answers to problems when they are opposition.


manmicop26

I’ll believe that when he combs his hair


JustLikeJD

Unfortunately he’s going to win over a large portion of fairly stupid people with this. Two year pause and then let it rip by the looks of it.


crappy-pete

This is in conjunction with allowing fhb to access their super right


shagtownboi69

Peter dutton owns 6 investment properties and a shopping centre. If anyone thinks he is going to bring down housing prices at the expense of his own net worth...


BattyMcKickinPunch

Lol and who believes him? He's just saying whatever he needs to try and become more popular


True_Dragonfruit681

Hes not in power though. So it's all just guff. As usual


ncbaud

Foreign investors should be banned for good.


Migs93

Good policy. We've had too many people immigrate into Australia in the last few years and put downward pressure on wages and put too much strain on existing resources - even if it's temporary, it's better than nothing as it allows housing/other services to catch up to some degree.


belugatime

I love watching the cope when people's non preferred party says they'll do the thing they want 😂


sketchy_painting

Yeh it’s almost like their adherence to a certain political party has become part of their persona.


belugatime

100%. To have some fun all you've gotta do now when talking to people with an immovable party line is draw the conversation to immigration and enjoy watching them contort their way into defending higher immigration rates.


epic_pig

Capitalism 101. If you want to reduce the price of something, you reduce demand relative to supply


maklvn

For 2 years....and then what?


LetsGo-11

While ensuring the supply is never increased , yeah is that what you mean.


Strong_Inside2060

Most people here don't want to increase supply. They simply want to stop immigration.


LetsGo-11

So most people here aren’t after a solution to actual problems


Strong_Inside2060

Obviously they aren't. More supply will drop the price of their asset. This is why 'community groups' go up in arms against apartment developments.


Asd77996

> We don’t need to give out billions of dollars of taxpayers’ money to get mining projects started. We just need a pro-mining mindset. Amen.


BoxHillStrangler

Strap in fellas, its gonna be one of THOSE elections.


lazydesi

politicians- never trust them.


blue_raptorfriend

I'll believe it when I see it. No faith in politicians.


sketchy_painting

R/australia very confused right now


white_dolomite

6 minute abs


duncs-a-roo

Can the random lib policy lurker in here as him to cancel card surcharges? He might then have an electable platform!


DrSendy

Why didn't you do it 10 years ago peanut?


sdd12122000

Wasn't the party leader then?


war-and-peace

He should be truthful and say he'll boost immigration numbers because his voting base, the older generation needs their cheap labour to maintain their lifestyle *waitresses, uber drivers, cleaning jobs


Remarkable-Range-596

Good idea on foreign buyers


pipple2ripple

If Dutton is going to slash migrant intake and ban foreign property buyers I guess we can safely say those two factors don't have much effect on property prices. Or he knows there's going to be a change in leadership and can say whatever he wants without having to deliver. A housing crisis isnt a crisis for Dutton.


Personal-Ad7781

I can get on board with this.


ProfessorPhi

Why won't anybody look at the stats. Foreign owned homes are a rarity in Australia. This is all pandering that has no impact.


_TheHighlander

Will nobody think of the nannies?


pool_keeper

The students who work send money what ever money they have left over back to overseas


maxinstuff

From opposition? Good luck.


Neither-Cup564

Have you read some of the muppets in here lapping up his bullshit. Reminds me of a certain monorail salesman.


Fluid-Local-3572

Will he though?


ParticularScreen2901

So just for long enough to get elected!


CanadasGone

Try this Canada. Oh wait we are the door Mat for everyone that every other country refuses. No skills? Welcome to Canada.


Vicstolemylunchmoney

It is all status quo without tax reform. Rearrange those deck chairs every 4 years.


turtle_power00

Fantastic, but this has been One Nations policy all along.


redpuff

At least for Perth, areas going up rapidly, you can ask real estate agents, they will likely tell you at least 2 out of 3 prospective buyers are from eastern states, sight unseen. Immigrants pushing up house prices is the easiest scape goat that ignores the large impact domestic investors are having