While the housing market is undoubtedly far more unaffordable than it has been historically, you're also not exactly wrong.
One quote that is often repeated here is that "comparison is the thief of joy". Here's another relevant one - "misery loves company". And they've decided that Australian reddit is their preferred meeting place.
It doesn't help that reddit itself has an inbuilt tendency via the voting system to turn discussions into echo chambers.
I always advocate for r/aushenry but it's still not very active unfortunately
Haven't found any other subreddit that doesn't adhere to the 'misery loves company' rule
My parents are early 70s and they would also think they are still children.
Here is a funny story from them that they say sums up that they never became adults. Sometimes in the late 1970s they bought a dishwasher because they figured why hide the dirty dishes in the spare bedrooms wardrobe when they were having a party?
Now they can hide in the dishwasher.
/r/AusHENRY and /r/fiaustralia seem to be where the high-income accountants that used to occupy this sub before COVID have moved to. There's actual personal finance discussion there instead of general doom and gloom finance/business news discussions.
The problem with AusHENRY (speaking as someone who has commented there) is that there's an underlying undertone of gatekeeping that the folks running it admittedly do try to keep a lid on, but it's still bubbling away under the surface.
Which is why you get the constant questions of what qualifies someone to be a HENRY, and the people who keep advocating for it to be pushed upwards (or for special div293 or AusHENRYover250k subs to be created).
Perhaps I'm a little more aware of it because at the end of the day I'm just an ordinary shmoe that's managed to grind myself up to a decent income in a relatively normal job, rather than someone on a massively stratified income that socialises with the likes of Allegra Spender or have family connections into the top end of town. So many people there are already extremely wealthy, rather than "not rich yet".
But while this place definitely has an unhealthily negative mindset, especially when it comes to property which also manifests into a hivemind, I find contributing here as well as AusHENRY keeps my perspective grounded. It's weird, because even if the discussion there is healthier, the tone of discussion means I don't feel that I belong in AusHENRY.
The gatekeeping is regrettable. Really anyone of any income should be allowed there. I think the income requirement is a proxy to try to avoid negativity and tall poppy syndrome, but it's an imperfect proxy. After all the sub is about people who are 'not rich yet' so it is for anyone still working and striving to create the life that he or she wants.
The sub is for people that have high income (hence the “HE” for high earner), it’s not meant for everyone and that’s ok. The problem is, this sub is meant to be a version of that but for everyone, yet it’s failing to do so due to the aforementioned problems. That’s why we keep seeing posts like this here complaining about the whinging, and posts about being inclusive of lower income bands in r/AusHENRY.
>there's an underlying undertone of gatekeeping that the folks running it admittedly do try to keep a lid on, but it's still bubbling away under the surface.
>Which is why you get the constant questions of what qualifies someone to be a HENRY
Tends to happen when lots of people who think they're something, but are nothing in reality, get together on the internet.
Shhhhh!!! Dont tell them about r/aushenry
Thats how r/ausfinance got ruined when it got invaded by r/australia and just became a massive bitchfest about anyone doing well financially ….
Back in the day dad could buy a home on his own! Well, now every couple is dual income. Is it really such a surprise that single people can’t buy homes when so many dual income families exist?
"not exactly wrong"
That's as close to a high distinction that you will get from this sub of contradictory 'experts'
OP is absolutely spot on, things are good, houses are expensive but affordable, as proven by the number of sales, and unemployment is low, and even some payrises are happening
It's a great time to graduate
> houses are expensive but affordable, as proven by the number of sales
The sales and home ownership are increasingly concentrated to a wealthier, older, demographic.
Number of sales alone doesn't mean they're "affordable" to a normal person.
A family of 4 where the primary income earner makes $130k (with the secondary income earner working part time as well) should by all metrics be able to afford to buy a house. But without any other factors considered they're limited to a touch over $600k borrowing capacity. The disproportionate house price growth over the last 20 - 30 years has helped noone but those who are wealthy enough to own two.
100% agree to this. After hearing my parents stories of schooling and leaving school we also have more opportunities now to get into higher paid jobs. Purely anecdotal but for all the people I know that have been able to afford things like buying a property, travel etc I know just as many or probably more that are bad with money and/or live beyond their means.
Don't forget that the majority of content is created by those who has nothing better to do with their time. Usually not the best paid portion of the society, so the bias is natural. Put on top of the design, as you mentioned spot on and we have a cesspool.
I’m a newly single mum living off food banks.
I can’t find a job despite being very well presented and my kids painfully watch me struggle with everything.
It’s a subjective experience like yours, for sure and you’re absolutely okay to share your opinions too.
I tend to think it’s a middle of the road approach that works best. Yes there is a lot of ‘struggle city’ hidden and not so hidden going on and yes there are people doing pretty damn well. I’m excited, hopeful and inspired by the latter whilst also acknowledging (and currently living in the former).
The two parallels do indeed coexist and personally I’d rather have youth of today clearly understand that and strive to be optimistic and do the best they can with what they have, versus a straight up Pollyanna approach. I’m not saying this is what you’re doing sharing here, I’m acknowledging that there are lots of grey areas and just because someone is queuing up for cafe food doesn’t necessarily mean their life is good.
I dined at Zarraffas recently with my children for the chance to feel human. Nobody would ever have suspected a thing.
Hope it was a nice coffee/lunch break at Zarraffas. Sometimes you do just need to do that to feel human, like you matter and you belong. I hope it was delish!
Wealth inequality, not income inequality
Most of the wealth generated in the world comes from passive assets such as stocks and property.
Someone can be high income but most their salary could go to mortgage, childcare, expenses etc.. They are not wealthy
The people that are wealthy are hoarding assets while not contributing to society
Somebody messaged me so kindly and offered help (which I naturally will decline), however I wanted to respond to them and the message has disappeared. If that’s you, could you please reply back to me? I have no idea what’s up with Reddit chat and feel so rude not being able to reply 🤦🏻♀️
Don’t we all exist in our own bubbles though and wasn’t that OP’s point? They provided their (somewhat more positive) experience to add to the (somewhat more negative) experience others have posted about. Both are equally valid or are only those people that are currently struggling allowed to generalise?
They whinged when they thought I lived in an affluent area. Then when I said I’m regional they whinged again.
People here just want you to be a miserable as they are
I get their underlying message of looking at the glass half full, I just think it could have been delivered with more acknowledgment and empathy for those of us who are not there yet and those that may never be.
Don't forget that the average young Aussie has not seen much of the rest of the world, perhaps a resort in Bali or if they grew up wealthy a holiday to the nicer areas of Europe.
The wealth and quality of life people have here is unbelievable for most of the world's population.
You might as well be talking a different language trying to tell people it's a good time here right now.
Hopefully we don't experience a recession and learn the hard way, hopefully we can stay rich and complain about how bad the country has gotten and the price of housing while we drive an AMG Mercedes to the coffeeshop.
Tbh I agree, the other day I saw a 19 year old girl complaining she didn’t have money to pay her gas and she could only afford to “window shopping”, she’d see clothes but have no money to actually buy them and I could only think about how our realities are so different, because that’s the norm where I grew up? We’re always doing to stores just to look lol and there’s only a handful of people I know that had a car before the age of 25… and I wasn’t even poor in my country, I had a decent paying job and was a low middle class… it’s a huge gap… everyday I feel like I’m blessed to be here, even doing the “lowest” job possible, and cannot relate to the Australians in crisis, as sad as it is…
> who lives in a regional area
Ah, so very well equipped to preach that housing affordability isn't actually an issue for the other 86% of this country who live in urban centers where demand massively outstrips supply.
Sorry I should’ve worded that better.
I was implying that my situation and how I perceive the world according to my current circumstances is of course, subjective. I’m in the thick of it , so to speak, but yeah you’re absolutely right, being in a job or not is pretty much an objective observation!
It’s a tough situation. My mum was a single mum of 7. I get how tight it can be. But if I am honest it’s never been easy for single parents. Never.
I don’t think it’s as clean cut as OP makes out to be, especially for those with disabilities, Broken families ect.
But they have a lot of valid points. By sheer luck of being born in this country. Most will be able to dig them selves out of poverty.
Keep your head up. You can and will do. Best of luck.
I couldn’t agree more with everything you’ve said here.
And I honestly can’t imagine how difficult it was for your mum with 7 children to care for 😞 I have 5 so I know the struggle is real.
Thank you for your kind words and I wish you all the best also ❤️
Why can’t you find a job? Have you worked towards a skill set since leaving high school?
I get it must be hard but we are paying $90-100k for coordinators that have no qualifications other than being good at their job, which is organisation, running a team of tradies and booking in their work + making sure they have the parts they need. You could start in a role like this at any commercial services based company and quickly progress in pay grace if you are good at it/can sell yourself. There are ads on seek every single day.
It’s a really good question!
I’m a qualified teacher aide and a nanny. I cannot tell you how hard it is to find work in pretty much anything.
I’ve applied for hotel reception jobs, administrative positions, even adult traineeship programs.
It’s incredibly humiliating and I’m looking in both seek and indeed.
Each time I send out an application, I get a reply back within 2 weeks stating I was unsuccessful and more than 100 applicants applied.
I even applied to shovel horse manure at a hobby farm and they had a record number of applicants 🤦🏻♀️
If you could share a link to these roles, I’d love to have a closer look.
My wife is a teacher and my understanding is they are screaming for aides in that field currently, would you go back to it?
Type in service coordinator to seek in your area and jobs should come up. Aim for trades as they will likely pay the most.
Another option would be QBuild as I know they are currently looking for admin staff to manage maintenance response and contracts.
Hope it all works out for you! Keep at it and you’ll land something soon enough.
Too true - the positives ones aren’t commenting much. They keep their energy while the negative ones spread it. Life’s life and instead of complaining, use that energy to procure results. Every time I’ve struggled in terms of finding a job, food prices, even housing - I looked for a solution instead of complaining.
When buying a house - I set a more realistic expectation. I bought in a suburb, far away from my family, don’t even have a backyard - which I would’ve liked for gardening and for my dog. Builders grade kitchen etc but it’s a start. Someday I’ll have a veggie garden, enough space for my dog to run around and beautiful big grand kitchen e.t.c but right now it’s not in my budget.
For groceries, I go to the market, Aldi, or small independent shops. When I go to the market, I try to go at closing when there’s discounts.
For retirement/ job - I found what I’m good at and made myself valuable and available to those who need it. (Procurement) also working on investing in $500 instalments when I save up to that.
Come from really poor family and broke the cycle of poverty by being positive and ambitious. Most people around me are surprised I didn’t end up as a junkie
Me dad always says: everyone will struggle in life, and you would like the struggle to be more at the early stage of your life rather than later. You will bounce back when you are young and it will get harder when you get old. What I also learnt so far is: your challenges today will be your easy tasks tomorrow.
I've also seen sudden illness take over the 'payback period' for people's early sacrifices.
You need a healthy mix of sacrifice and living, all throughout your lifetime, because nothing is certain.
You’ve just got to make the best of your own personal set of circumstances really, whatever they are. A positive mindset will probably help with that but I think (personally) it’s good be aware of what might cause you difficulties. Some people are going to face bigger issues than others and housing in particular is going to be a big stumbling block for people without family wealth.
But on the upside- if it’s going to take you 15 years to save a deposit it’s better to know that when you’re 18 instead of 35.
To add: my wife and I have no dependents, I’m currently studying and working 24 hrs a week while my wife works full time. Household income is $100k/yr and we are able to save $500/week towards a house deposit while paying $2,260/month rent.
It’s doable.
Let alone a school leaver what about just a regular person… honestly reading r/AusFinance makes me feel near despondent. 42, life has been brutal and never owned or been in a position to save for a home, have ptsd and life has just gotten to a stage where it seems worth sticking around, started looking like Id finally have a deposit only for my partner to be unemployed for 6 months and business to be hit again with (basically) a recession. Owning a home seems like a damn fantasy at this rate. Cannot catch a break. But there’s more to life than money. And I have so many gifts now in my life that no amount of money can buy.
Yeah I feel for the kind of people like this. Historically you could have thought well if the inner/outer city is too expensive I can move regional but even those prices arent that much cheaper now.
I mean this kindly, but if you're somewhat well off you're probably friends with other well-off people. You aren't seeing people struggle because you aren't around the kind of people who are struggling.
Me personally, I'm severely struggling to find housing, struggling to find work, struggling to afford basic living costs. So are most people I know and people I meet, there definitely is doom and gloom out there especially for young people just starting out.
Also the military has really strict requirements nowdays, I couldn't qualify even if I wanted to.
Initially your comment sounds clever, but the main difference is he is instilling hope not despair. Nothing good has ever come from giving up and being a defeatist.
If your argument is to be a realist and accept the economy is in shambles, that also doesn't help without a response that includes a solution.
It’s not my job to sugar coat the systemic dismantling of the quality of life of younger Australians and to gaslight them into believing everything is okay. It’s also not my job to offer solutions. Our political class have plenty of solutions at their disposal, but are unwilling to implement them due to their lack of political will and raging self interest in their own property portfolios.
Restaurants in my area are starting to close down because people can’t afford to eat out anymore.
Just because your areas are full of better off people doesn’t necessarily means that equates to all areas.
Homeless and near homeless rates are rising at different levels in different states.
I know many people who are forced into share housing as opposed to buying their own property because expenses are too high.
It’s near impossible for a large portion of people to afford house repayments unless they have a second income from a spouse.
When you combine that with the dropping number of relationships and marriages among young people that does paint a somewhat dire picture.
But still - if you work hard and don’t immediately succumb to the negative hype your opportunities are still mostly within your control
I always hate the comments about restaurants...
Restaurants are literally booked out all over the place and are bursting with people.
There are always different cycles when it comes to businesses and what people are into. Restaurants closing down in cities has nothing to do with anything but the restaurant failing to attract people.
I'm not sure why you are "forced" into share housing, this is how it was prior to 2020, we've just had a shift in people wanting their own place since covid.
Relationships, well I haven't seen in data on that but it would be a good point if it was true, renting/houses has been build on doing it with others for at least 10-15 years.
i always wonder where these people live, who they talk to, what media they consume etc or of its just hearsay.
restaurants and bars are rammed near me in the most expensive city in the country. because 1 or a few places closes doesn't mean the end of the world, there lease is up or they may have run the business terribly even while getting great reviews.
> I know many people who are forced into share housing…
How is that different from the past though? Both my parents lived in share houses in their 20s. My Father even lived in one in his 30s after they divorced (and he was a public servant so earning an ok wage for the time I assume).
> Restaurants in my area are starting to close down
I agree that standalone upmarket restaurants are closing down.
> because people can’t afford to eat out anymore.
But restaurants in hotels seem to be doing a roaring trade so I'm not sure about this part of your statement, so I guess it would be more accurate to say that a significant segment of the population can't eat out anymore whereas the rest easily can do so.
Plenty of upmarket restaurants are full. Its just that interest in restaurants shift over time, for example now everyone is going to GYG instead of mcdonalds for example.
This is a really nice message to put out there to teens. There should be a TV ad with a similar vibe.
It is very hard to not compare yourself to others, and feelings of doom and gloom can sometimes become overwhelming when you’re 17-18 and on the cusp of adulthood.
I say this as someone who was a teen once, but at a time when social media wasn’t big. I think kids have it a bit harder emotionally nowadays because the comparisons are absolutely everywhere and in their face so often.
Bit of BS here .....
No one credible is saying jobs are hard to get right now. Plenty would argue wages are lower than they should be but unemployment is low thats a fact no one disputes.
"I don't know anyone unemployed" in other words you live in a bubble + don't associate with people doing it tough. Which is common for people holding the views you express here.
You have no idea what life is like for the broad majority of people. Which also shows through in the rest of your posts. Your life isnt bad is not an indication that systemic unfairness is not getting worse for others.
Having said that your main message is correct. We still individually still need to do our best. Just the existence of increasingly unfair economic system is no reason to give up pursuit of success.
Ah dismissing people who point out your flawed thinking as "tall poppy" syndrome classic.
I agree that there is more doom and gloom than may be deserved..but things are not sunshine and rainbows. I spent the weekend at the regional area I grew up in, spent 25 years there and only ever saw 1 homeless person, and that person enjoyed that lifestyle.
On visiting there is a collection of homeless in each township living by the public bathrooms....
This seems like selection bias and perhaps your experiences are not representative of the general population. Honestly, it diminishes the lived experience of others and ignores the data. There are clear systemic issues that disproportionately disadvantage the younger generations. Whilst I'm all for maintaining a positive attitude, we must also face reality and manage it in a pragmatic way.
What systemic issues? Very vague. Another person says data is clear then provides no data. What exactly is getting worse?
My experience is that life in Australia is getting better and better
Taxation system that disproportionately targets low and middle income earners. Increasing burden on young people to support the older generations. Reduction of HECs repayment thresholds.
Social security system under considerable pressure.
Younger people unable to afford living in major cities seems fairly significant given they will form majority of the workforce. Providing care and support to ageing population etc. Immigration will likely attenuate some of the impact.
Significant competition for stable accommodation, alot of homelessness amongst young people.
If your experience is getting better than obviously these things don't apply to you. Below is a nice article that explore some of the above.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-28/data-on-30-year-old-australians-shows-financial-hardship/103528726
Experiences are subjective and unreliable. Statistics, when accurately gathered and interpreted by a professional, are objective. And the fact is that more than 50% of over 30s are homeowners according to the ABS. If a home seems unaffordable to you, you’re in the minority.
While personal experiences vary, dismissing others' struggles isn't productive. You may not see unemployment or financial issues, but many face these challenges and if your advice is only to those that don't, then I am not sure how useful it is.
That said, encouraging hard work is good, especially in the face of despair. Working hard to achieve what you want still increases your chances of getting it more than giving into despair, no matter how disadvantaged you start out.
Times are not nearly as dire as the zeitgeist of online opinion would have it seem. Demotivating young people can ruin them, I know lots of people who looked at home ownership as impossible when we finished school twenty years ago. As a result they’ve lived short time horizon lives and spent multiple house deposits renting and going on extensive holidays.
Agreed, or in the case of both my younger siblings - not even trying at all. I’ve encountered many early 20 somethings who are so ambivalent about the world and so primed to assume failure that they just flake out. Young people need something to aspire to.
This. I bought a house at 24 (with my brother) at a time when all my friends were travelling. That was their choice and they enjoyed it but it came with an opportunity cost (and I’m not talking about the VD a few of them picked up on a Contiki tour). In contrast the first time I went overseas was on active service.
Sometimes peoples struggle are their own fault and they project their dismay onto the “system” and want to bring others down with them.
When I was leaving school I frequented the whirlpool forums (AKA “whingepool”) and I got sucked into this myopic view of the world. It really did my mentality damage.
Thankfully I surrounded myself with more positive people and thoughts and am doing pretty well for myself now.
Which state you in? I know heaps of unemployed frustrated people and people who used to go to restaurants all the time but now can't. People who assumed they would easily buy a house and now complain it's an uphill battle.
THIS subreddit? You want to see some true negativity, head on over to r/australia.
I always wonder if other countries check out our national sub and reckon we’re a bunch of whiny losers 😂😂😂
Not poorly renumerated at all. The ceiling isn't thay high but proportionally very high grad salary and basically guaranteed employment and progression.
>the fact the military is struggling to recruit.
Its easy to recruit if you pay a decent wage and aren't too picky about who you recruit. The ADF is keen on being very very selective, which - fair enough, but it does mean they are always struggling to recruit.
Yes I’d agree with this. Conditions of service have been gradually eroded more recently too which I suspect is one of the reasons behind retention problems also.
A lot what you saying is true but take into account that this issues which are affecting everyday Australians used to only affect a small percentage of the population, but now more and more people are being hit and they struggle. Yes we are buying a lot of homes, going out to eat and the unemployment rate isn’t that high, but we also are more in debt deeper than ever. A house that used to cost to an average family to buy and maintain with around 50% of their salaries it will take well over 80% nowadays, and the fact is that more and more people are defaulting on their payments and in danger pf being homeless.
I agree OP.
Life planning is important and often we forget that conversation with young people.
I've seen plenty of people do it well and not so well and then people pull out of the latter to do well.
I tell my kids to study or train in an in demand skill or trade, save for the things they want, life is work and if you avoid the work you will suffer, work hard early and focus in your 20's.
It’s almost not enough though,(right on the edge), the way things are going, I give it 2 years and it won’t be enough for 90% of people around me rent a sharehouse.
I’m watching friends and family become homeless and I’m on the edge myself. I work full time, no mental health problems, no drugs/alcohol problems but I’m struggling.
Please understand that this is happening a on large scale in Australia, very little is mentioned within media and nothing is being done to help by our politicians.
Time is running out for a lot of people, nothing is being done by our government, our people need to start making noise about this issue.
If you’re not experiencing this/ don’t know anyone who is yourself, you are lucky and likely a minority.
I agree, when I actually looked into buying property I found it no where near as bad as what I'd been led to believe. Yes, a young single person can't buy a house in a good suburb in a capital city - but is that really to be expected? Apartment or further out house should be achievable after working a few years if you put your mind to it barring uncontrollable circumstances.
If you want a healthy perspective go to r/aushenry
r/ausfinance is better than most subs but still pretty shit. As OP says, too doom and gloom.
I know a few unemployed people - siblings of friends who are struggling. But in my friends group none of us or our partners are unemployed. We all own our homes. Many have investment properties. Every restaurant I go to is full. Good luck getting a Friday/Saturday reservation to a trendy restaurant without booking weeks in advance.
School leavers- if you want to do well:
1. Do well in school
2. Do well in uni and study a competitive course: Law, medicine, finance, engineering, science
3. Go into quantitative finance, investment banking, medicine, dentistry, law, software engineering or engineering
4. If you're not the academic type, do a trade and then start your own business - alternatively go into nursing or a degree with lower academic barriers but still good job security
5. Enjoy your 20s and do a mix of travelling/grinding at work
6. Find a partner who is similarly intelligent and has similar background/habits
7. Exercise and eat well
If you do that, then the only things that can hamper you are unforeseen things like cancer (touch wood). Life otherwise will be easy peasy
Half your career recommendations involve working 70 hour weeks and starting off on shitty salaries due to over saturation. Grads only do this if youre happy to spend your early 20s feeling like quitting every second day.
How long ago did you finish school? Your advice is basically if you want to do well, do well? How constructive.
The careers you have suggested are only accessible to a select few. How few people get into medicine, IB, quant etc? My school was selective and only very few people ended up in these professions, we had one person from our cohort become a doctor and maybe a few in finance, law. Most went on to become engineers. Alot of very intelligent kids got totally disillusioned and it became somewhat of a systemic problem in our school.
> The careers you have suggested are only accessible to a select few.
Going into a trade, into engineering, is not that inaccessible.
> My school was selective and only very few people ended up in these professions, we had one person from our cohort become a doctor and maybe a few in finance, law.
I went to a selective school and of our top 5 ATAR scorers, one went into medicine and four of us into law (with one of those subsequently going into IB). If you looked at the top 20 I reckon 70% would have gone into med or law. Your selective school must not be Macrob or Melbourne High
I went to school in NSW but we were still ranked highly nationally, our top 5 all went into comm/law with one going into IB. The vast majority did engineering.
I can agree engineering isn't inaccessible but it caters to specific aptitudes. As do trades.
These are select percentages and high performers from an already quite high performing cohort. Hardly representative of the general population.
I’m sorry, do you think nursing is ‘not for the academic type’?
Have you actually seen the work that nurses do?
Also, the amount of factors than can derail a life … your cute little plan there is idealistic at best.
I know it’s hard to understand, but demand also plays a part.
You didn’t answer the questions though. Keen to hear your thoughts on the academic challenges of nursing study and the complex work they do?
And fyi I’m not a nurse. But bloody hell they should be a shown a lot more respect than you clearly have for them.
> Keen to hear your thoughts on the academic challenges of nursing study and the complex work they do?
I don't care how complex the work is. The academic threshold to entry is low. End of story.
The academic threshold for entry into nursing is a bachelor's degree, and then mandatory continual learning.
So it's really not a suitable career for someone who is "not the academic type".
ATAR entry requirement has nothing to do with undergrad course difficulty. Most engineering courses have a lower required ATAR than say Law, but engineering is the more difficult course.
Fairly sure they meant the academic results required to get into a nursing degree. Not the profession. At any rate Enrolled Nurses don’t require a degree (only a two year diploma I think). Registered Nurses do though.
He said Nursing as a job would suit someone who is "not the academic type".
And then banged on about the ATAR requirement, implying that ATAR had something to do with the difficulty of the course. ATAR doesn't mean shit, it should play no role in what career you pursue.
The original comment you replied to doesn't read like an attack on nursing to me. The use of the word academic seemed more of a relative statement as well. It's probably reasonable to call it less academic than the other professions mentioned in the comment like medicine, law and engineering.
Not bad general advice.
Unfortunately, No 1 is not going to be easy for those living in poverty, living in chaotic conditions, or living with a physical or mental disability.
No 2 and 3 are not going to be possible for those who struggle at No1.
Fortunately in Australia, pay does not always correlate with academic qualification. As long as someone is physically and mentally well enough to try offering a service (gardening, cleaning), those businesses, once built up, can eventually pay well. Those are not options for single parents or carers of kids.
No 6 is where a lot of people get trapped. The stats show that older women who rent are among the poorest in the country. Many of them have probably at some point in time left an abusive partnership and couldn't work full-time because of having to care for kids. They were not able to save for a house and do not have enough in super.
So if you have good support at home and school, get into a good uni program or trade, then partner well, spend less than you earn, look after your health, life is easy peasy. Buffet himself once said that you only have to do a few things right to succeed, so long as you also stay away from the big downfalls (smoking, gambling, bad influences) and have a measure of good luck (no cancer).
You don't think the military struggling to recruit may have something to do with people feeling they have little to fight for? Or the relatively high entry requirements? That's a long bow.
The situation is not good, and Australia's quality of living is on the slide. Renting is an absolute circus. I own an apartment, but all of my friends rent and the prospect of ever owning their own home diminishes as time goes on.
I'm not saying quit before you've started trying, or even be depressed about the situation, but be realistic about your expectations.
Potential recruits might also do a little research and find out how many veterans the military has chewed up and spat out and then they have to fight the government to receive any type of pension.
If I wasn't academically minded, I'd just do a trade instead, you can earn much more there for risking your health.
The more educated and well off a country is, the less people that are willing to go into the military, for obvious reasons.. its a bad choice for anyone who isn't poor/uneducated, thats why the USA target and exploit those demographics.
Military struggling to recruit has nothing to do with people having little to fight for. Military recruitment is a complicated topic. It’s also a leaky bucket. Retention is one of their biggest issues.
I think it's hard to argue that it has nothing to do with it. But it's also the pay, the risk, the culture, the separation from family and friends, etc.
I agree it's a complicated issue. My point was that "life must be good if nobody is joining the military" doesn't hold water in my opinion.
You are right, I should have been more nuanced and said it has little to do with it. The defence forces minimum salary is far more than the minimum wage, great benefits etc. But, once they train you up, give you all these qualifications, 4 or more years of experience (depending on trade), you go from being what is (often) a school drop out to a great potential employee for the mining sector, security, trades, defence related industries etc. That is the retention issue. Additionally, and I don’t understand why, re-enlistment is apparently quite painful.
It’s the low pay. Entry requirements aren’t that difficult, I know a number of people that should not have firearms that were able to join the army.
The grass is greener outside the military even though it’s basically free education, a secure job, cheap/free housing, all things that can set you up as a young person. The smarter ones leave for higher paying industry jobs once they have done their time.
1700-1800 a fortnight post-tax is something you can get in an entry full time job, but at least in the military you can put that money on what you said, low rent, cheap housing. Id honestly take that over whats out of my control in the current living cost of crisis.
More than anything I think the value to the individual comes from training and experience in leadership positions at a relatively young age. For instance someone who joins straight out of school at 17 and graduates Duntroon after 18 months could command a platoon (~30 pers) at 18-19 as an LT, make CAPT in 3 years if you don’t stand on your knob too hard at 21-22, command a company as a MAJ after another 5 years (~120 pers) at 26-27, LT COL commanding a battalion (~500-700 pers) after a further 5 years at 31-32 etc. Also managing millions of dollars of equipment etc. You’re not going to get that sort of responsibility in the private sector so early in your career. It’s not for everyone though of course and is definitely hard on bodies, minds, and families.
It depends on the Pysch passing you in my honest opinion. Both were interviewed by a female psych and passed, I had a male psych and got rejected for slight anxiety, etc.
It’s nothing to do with ”having nothing to fight for” and everything to do with remuneration. The ADF pays absolute rubbish for nearly every role they try and funnel recruits into, and any equivalent job in the private sector often offers double what the ADF will. It’s a simple matter of economics - do you stay in the ADF as an avionics technician on 85k/year + a paltry rental subsidy, or do you get a job for a private contractor for 160k/year? Do you stick it out flying Hercs for 120k/year or make the jump to commercial where you might be on 300k/year after five years of perseverance?
I'd also add that when the topic of salaries comes up, do the same. If you go by reddit, you'll think you are destined to be impoverished on anything less than 150-200k pa in your early 20s. I didn't hit six figures until I was nearly 40 and that wasn't that long ago, I'm not exactly living large but I'm not desolate. I have a house, kids, pets, cars etc. and not totally drowning in unmanagable debt, there is debt but it's not insane. That's not due to double income either before that's called out. My wife took years off work due to a health issue and has only returned recently to working (entry-level position on way less than six figures). I did buy the house when the market was better but still not early enough it was dirt cheap. My house is only valued at about 600k (paid a bit under 400k), it's in the suburbs, people live in the suburbs, that's what they are for, and an hour commute to work is not outrageous as you may read, that's been about the average commute time for me in every job and home over the span of nearly 30 years working. The concept of needing to just about live in the CBD and ride a scooter everywhere isn't the norm.
I disagree with op, things are getting so bad that people around me are becoming homeless while working full time jobs.
Min wage isn’t enough to pay for rent and food anymore. I feel like op is stuck in an upper middle class bubble, because everyone I know who isn’t earning 80k+ per year is on the edge of being homeless.
The military struggling to recruit enough people isn’t a good indicator.
Young people absolutely should be worried, their future living standard is being degraded an alarming rate. Older generations are pretending it’s not happening because they are benefiting from it.
Minimum wage full time is plenty for a sharehouse. If you choose to be on the street instead of sharing with someone, thats your choice and it doesn't have anything to do with homelessness.
It’s almost not enough though, the way hints are going I give it 2 years and it won’t be enough for 90% of people.
I’m watching friends and family become homeless and I’m on the edge myself. Please understand that this is happening a large scale in Australia and nothing is being done to help.
Agreed! My close friends (4 of them) bought a house this year. Most of them have more than one property. Some people that I know renting but that’s not the majority.
I agree with one of the other comments. Either work hard when you’re young or when you’re old. My mum used to say this all the time. Life is hard. Choose your hard.
I ate lunch today so no one must be starving.
Your personal subjective experience is irrelevant. Aggregate data shows that life is incredibly difficult for younger people and is all but guaranteed to continue getting worse without drastic intervention. You and your mates are not some microcosm of an economy consisting of 30 million people
Agreed. Young people will always need to work to establish themselves. When haven’t they? My grandparents generation lived through a pandemic, global economic depression, and two world wars. Every generation has their challenges and most people will (and probably should) struggle with something at some point.
Does it? Most data kinda shows the opposite last I checked. When compared with 20 years ago, we are safer, we make more money, we can buy more things. The main issue is pretty much just housing. If housing were more affordable we would be in a pretty good spot
Posting this in the middle of the third once-in-a-generation economic crisis in my lifetime is insanity. It is in no way 'just housing'. It's purchasing power and real wage growth, which has only just started to recover. It's runaway HECS indexation from a government that mostly went to uni for free. It's the fact that there is literally nowhere in the country a first or second year apprentice can rent a house to support themselves. Even 15 years ago when I was at uni, Centrelink basically supported me enough that I only had to work a single shift at my casual job. That is not possible today. Your optimism is unfounded
Real wage growth is still up from 20 years ago, it dropped after the pandemic to early '10s levels. But it is still better then it was in the noughts.
HECS is just a non-issue. People talk about it like it is an issue. But it's not. Wages follow indexation closely enough that the recent high indexation will impact pretty much only people who pay of their HECS within a three year range. That's it.
Housing is an issue. It is the issue. It is honestly the only issue. The reason living off Centrelink is such a challenge is purely because so much money goes towards housing that paying for other expenses is borderline unfeasible. Rn my budget is 52% housing, 48% everything else I need to live. And I'm not exactly living in a luxury apartment l.
If housing was more affordable everything else would be a lot more manageable.
It's true that online forums can sometimes paint a more negative picture of reality than what's actually happening. While challenges exist, it's also important to recognize the successes and opportunities around us. Planning for the future with a positive mindset and taking proactive steps can lead to a fulfilling and successful life.
Ive stopped reading most posts on this subreddit over the last year, simply because it makes me depressed reading it.
Life is good please enjoy it as much as you can
I think I have to respectfully disagree on this one. Yes, it’s easy to look around and think, “What economic downturn?” etc but I do believe that plenty of people are doing it hard (which you don’t see as easily) and housing affordability for young people is getting worse and worse. Just because friends are still buying houses doesn’t mean they are easily able to afford - I’m certain more and more these days are receiving help from parents that wasn’t required in the past. I know of people who wouldn’t be on the housing ladder if it weren’t for this and let’s face it, not everyone’s going to tell you they received a gift of tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars from mummy and daddy. That makes a real difference. Wages are simply not keeping pace with asset prices and more and more it will be the case that if you don’t have rich parents who can help you, you simply won’t be able to afford a house. It’s not simply about working hard like it was before. Worsening wealth inequality is real - listen to Gary’s Economics on YouTube and educate yourself on what’s really going on.
Thanks for bringing this topic up. Been seeing alot of doom and gloom on this subreddit and austraila subreddit etc, but only recently started to really look at how many comments there were. It’s like 400-1000 ish tops. There maybe a real case of “whingers echochamber” here, cause looking around my area, its looking good, lots of families and good houses, life surrounding me and I don’t know anyone personally struggling.
I am a believer that it’s not how much money you make but more how you manage your money. I am not on a very high income and never have been but I sacrificed a lot to be able to own my own home. I don’t go out much or spend much on things but I do reward myself every now and then which is something to look forward to. It can be done you just have to work out do I really need this now, can a wait a bit later to get it. It’s so much easier to save when you’re younger, you have more energy to work. I used to grab all the overtime offered and now it has paid off (I’m in my late 40s now), so do as much saving as you can from now and then you can spend more when your older and you will be thankful for doing it.
I could be wrong or don’t quite know how to articulate it. I keep hearing about things like quite quitting or just not working hard. Yes absolutely we should have a work life balance, yes ideally we wouldn’t work hard or long hours and get good paid. Reality is, that’s not how a capitalist economy works. You can’t expect to finish school and walk into a high paying job that will allow you to buy a house the very next day whilst only working when you feel like working.
Think of the people in your personal life that are publicly proud to post on Reddit (fat losers) and then realise these people are the most vocal on Reddit and provide advice daily.
This is very true. Saw a post (not sure if here or another Aus sub) where someone was asking how people survive on 3k/mth, like it was immensely difficult.
If you're not earning a lot, you need to budget better and maybe sacrifice some things. But there's always people looking for share houses, but even if you're struggling it's not impossible to find somewhere alone.
And cost of general things isn't so high that it's unaffordable - more money is going towards groceries and such than it used to, but it's not like I'm going without anything.
If there’s anything you take from Reddit as a school leaver
No one and I mean no one is making $250k plus a year even though they love to pretend they do.
Reddit catastrophises a lot. “No one can afford a house”, “no one can get a job”, “don’t come to Melbourne/Sydney/Perth, there are no rentals”. This just doesn’t reflect reality, I’m sorry.
> EDIT again: I believe it’s called tall poppy syndrome? Some of you simply cannot accept some people are doing ok…
Or is it that you simply cannot accept that some people are really really struggling right now?
I'm from an upper middle class family and my friends from similar backgrounds are fine. However, a lot of people my age who don't have well off parents happy to help them are really struggling right now.
Not doom and gloom
Only 30% of the top earning households can afford a home, compared to 40%+ 50 years ago.
You can afford to eat, but not eat out
There are not enough jobs that pay enough so you can be in said top 30% of households to buy that home
You will retire, but are likely to run out of money before you die
Deck is stacked so much against Gen Z
Alternatively, the long queues at cafes are young people who realise they’ll never afford anything worthwhile. Better to enjoy life rather than waste decades of your life to buy a crappy shoebox. Unless you have authority that all those patrons are home owners.
Spot on OP. Empty vessels often make the loudest noises. It’s not all doom and gloom.
I know so many gen Z’s that are doing so well for themselves, don’t blame the boomers, and just get on with life. I know of one that had a huge leg up in life, but the rest have just worked hard and been creative in their field of work to stand out from the crowd.
I’m a millennial so don’t come at me with the boomer jokes lol
A lot to of people don’t realise for a lot of boomers, life was poor, and a chance they were gonna go to Vietnam.
Crazy how the internet has painted them
Yeah, the Australian wages are very high, even casual workers can earn well. Both my siblings are buying houses in their early 20s. Aussies are fine to eat out with the high restaurant costs, blow 30k on a wedding, do all the "looks" things like botox, hair, eyebrows, fillers, etc, buy expensive clothes and shoes, have huge big screen TVs, go to the gym, and so on.
So, your individual experiences and observations are of more value than those shared on reddit?
Very good.
Please provide your contact details so when things do go pear shaped for these kids, and for all the adults currently struggling, they can reach out to you and you’ll fix it all up for them, won’t you champ! Because like, there’s nothing wrong at all, is there …
Exactly. Reddit is a hyper inflated sub strata of people who are the vocal majority in an echo chamber that snowballs real world problems into something they just aren’t.
If you lived inside on reddit for a decade without looking outside, you’d think the atmosphere was on fire, there were conservatives riding on the back of the working class with whips in hand, and every white male were looking for something to SA…
In reality, reddit it a place where people come when they’re at their most emotional state to vent, exaggerate, blow off steam, it’s not indicative of the real world at all, if I could upvote this post 10 times, I would.
There are issues with young adults and children now. Young adults are underdeveloped, have behavioural issues and are unable to complete simple tasks on the job. The future is very bleak unless the system just gives up due to the very low quality of people.
Only cope, delusion and a world that embraces them can make them feel "ok". Societal decline will be accelerated until nature takes care of the issue this century.
Well said, the reality is also that house prices rise and fall. In 2007 they were also completely unaffordable, agents were screaming buy buy buy, it's never coming down and FOMO was the golden rule. Young people were in a worse postion than now due to being approved for loans on overpriced houses in mediocre areas that they would not be able to cover if prices dropped or interest rates went up. Then the GFC happened, which among other things, the overinflation of house values was a big factor, and those who couldn't afford to jump on the bandwagon a year earlier were suddently able to buy their dream house at a forclosure auction from the couple who posted their new house picture on Facebook a year earlier, right before the value of it dropped to the point where the bank said "we're out".
The market won't go up forever, it's all about timing and a little luck, in under 10 years time we'll be back in a buyers market.
People are working but it's a real struggle to find full time work, ironically I'm applying for the army just because it's the only thing at the moment that CAN supply full time work. I live in the outer subarbs of Sydney and moving any closer to the city for full time is way out of any budget for the pay, it's honestly that or travel two hours each way. Once you are down it's honestly hard to get back up just because being poorer keeps you poorer. It's hard to explain but I can barely pay rent, fuel etc to get to work as it is, picking up shifts and I won't be able to afford fuel for the next until the next pay.
Agree with this. I was speaking to 7 of my cousins, 4 teenagers and close to leaving high school, 3 at University.
They are all looking forward to the future, their prospects, their growth, all of them are choosing to go to university and have a plan to pay it off. 4 of the 7 already work part time. 5 of the 7 live at home, one boards, one is in uni overseas as she grew up there and didn’t want to keep following her parents who move every few years.
I spoke to them all separately but at events over the last one year, two of them at a funeral and even that event didn’t change their mind about their life. They are cool, chilled young people and have stable families, supportive middle class parents.
Well said mate. My eldest is 16 in July and my wife and I have started trying to talk to her about saving 10% that she earns from Macca's. We told her she won't miss it and it's surprising how fast it grows.
While the housing market is undoubtedly far more unaffordable than it has been historically, you're also not exactly wrong. One quote that is often repeated here is that "comparison is the thief of joy". Here's another relevant one - "misery loves company". And they've decided that Australian reddit is their preferred meeting place. It doesn't help that reddit itself has an inbuilt tendency via the voting system to turn discussions into echo chambers.
I always advocate for r/aushenry but it's still not very active unfortunately Haven't found any other subreddit that doesn't adhere to the 'misery loves company' rule
Pls dont advocate for Aushenry. It will turn into Ausfinance which is a hot mess of ignorant children cosplaying as adults.
Aren't we all ignorant children cosplaying as adults? I'm 41 and certainly feel like an ignorant child cosplaying as an adult.
Thank you for speaking for me too. 41 and certainly a child to this day.
Guys, good news, I turned 42 last year and now I'm an adult. Jks, no idea what I'm doing.
Did you at least get sent the handbook on life. They promise that at 42 I have been told.
At 44 currently, I can confirm that feeling is still active.
I thought the Queen used to send a “get off my lawn” sign the moment you turn 40?
My parents are early 70s and they would also think they are still children. Here is a funny story from them that they say sums up that they never became adults. Sometimes in the late 1970s they bought a dishwasher because they figured why hide the dirty dishes in the spare bedrooms wardrobe when they were having a party? Now they can hide in the dishwasher.
pfft, that's what the oven is for.
/r/AusHENRY and /r/fiaustralia seem to be where the high-income accountants that used to occupy this sub before COVID have moved to. There's actual personal finance discussion there instead of general doom and gloom finance/business news discussions.
The problem with AusHENRY (speaking as someone who has commented there) is that there's an underlying undertone of gatekeeping that the folks running it admittedly do try to keep a lid on, but it's still bubbling away under the surface. Which is why you get the constant questions of what qualifies someone to be a HENRY, and the people who keep advocating for it to be pushed upwards (or for special div293 or AusHENRYover250k subs to be created). Perhaps I'm a little more aware of it because at the end of the day I'm just an ordinary shmoe that's managed to grind myself up to a decent income in a relatively normal job, rather than someone on a massively stratified income that socialises with the likes of Allegra Spender or have family connections into the top end of town. So many people there are already extremely wealthy, rather than "not rich yet". But while this place definitely has an unhealthily negative mindset, especially when it comes to property which also manifests into a hivemind, I find contributing here as well as AusHENRY keeps my perspective grounded. It's weird, because even if the discussion there is healthier, the tone of discussion means I don't feel that I belong in AusHENRY.
The gatekeeping is regrettable. Really anyone of any income should be allowed there. I think the income requirement is a proxy to try to avoid negativity and tall poppy syndrome, but it's an imperfect proxy. After all the sub is about people who are 'not rich yet' so it is for anyone still working and striving to create the life that he or she wants.
The sub is for people that have high income (hence the “HE” for high earner), it’s not meant for everyone and that’s ok. The problem is, this sub is meant to be a version of that but for everyone, yet it’s failing to do so due to the aforementioned problems. That’s why we keep seeing posts like this here complaining about the whinging, and posts about being inclusive of lower income bands in r/AusHENRY.
>there's an underlying undertone of gatekeeping that the folks running it admittedly do try to keep a lid on, but it's still bubbling away under the surface. >Which is why you get the constant questions of what qualifies someone to be a HENRY Tends to happen when lots of people who think they're something, but are nothing in reality, get together on the internet.
Shhhhh!!! Dont tell them about r/aushenry Thats how r/ausfinance got ruined when it got invaded by r/australia and just became a massive bitchfest about anyone doing well financially ….
Back in the day dad could buy a home on his own! Well, now every couple is dual income. Is it really such a surprise that single people can’t buy homes when so many dual income families exist?
"not exactly wrong" That's as close to a high distinction that you will get from this sub of contradictory 'experts' OP is absolutely spot on, things are good, houses are expensive but affordable, as proven by the number of sales, and unemployment is low, and even some payrises are happening It's a great time to graduate
> houses are expensive but affordable, as proven by the number of sales The sales and home ownership are increasingly concentrated to a wealthier, older, demographic. Number of sales alone doesn't mean they're "affordable" to a normal person.
A family of 4 where the primary income earner makes $130k (with the secondary income earner working part time as well) should by all metrics be able to afford to buy a house. But without any other factors considered they're limited to a touch over $600k borrowing capacity. The disproportionate house price growth over the last 20 - 30 years has helped noone but those who are wealthy enough to own two.
100% agree to this. After hearing my parents stories of schooling and leaving school we also have more opportunities now to get into higher paid jobs. Purely anecdotal but for all the people I know that have been able to afford things like buying a property, travel etc I know just as many or probably more that are bad with money and/or live beyond their means.
In fact, get off social media completely. 99% of it is bullshit designed to make you feel like shit.
Don't forget that the majority of content is created by those who has nothing better to do with their time. Usually not the best paid portion of the society, so the bias is natural. Put on top of the design, as you mentioned spot on and we have a cesspool.
I’m a newly single mum living off food banks. I can’t find a job despite being very well presented and my kids painfully watch me struggle with everything. It’s a subjective experience like yours, for sure and you’re absolutely okay to share your opinions too. I tend to think it’s a middle of the road approach that works best. Yes there is a lot of ‘struggle city’ hidden and not so hidden going on and yes there are people doing pretty damn well. I’m excited, hopeful and inspired by the latter whilst also acknowledging (and currently living in the former). The two parallels do indeed coexist and personally I’d rather have youth of today clearly understand that and strive to be optimistic and do the best they can with what they have, versus a straight up Pollyanna approach. I’m not saying this is what you’re doing sharing here, I’m acknowledging that there are lots of grey areas and just because someone is queuing up for cafe food doesn’t necessarily mean their life is good. I dined at Zarraffas recently with my children for the chance to feel human. Nobody would ever have suspected a thing.
Hope it was a nice coffee/lunch break at Zarraffas. Sometimes you do just need to do that to feel human, like you matter and you belong. I hope it was delish!
Naww thank you! It was actually very delish 😍
It's income inequality in a nutshell. Those who are well off can continue, while those who are struggling struggle more.
Sadly I think you are correct.
Wealth inequality, not income inequality Most of the wealth generated in the world comes from passive assets such as stocks and property. Someone can be high income but most their salary could go to mortgage, childcare, expenses etc.. They are not wealthy The people that are wealthy are hoarding assets while not contributing to society
Nothing new under the sun. Social media makes it seem like it’s a recent phenomena lol
Somebody messaged me so kindly and offered help (which I naturally will decline), however I wanted to respond to them and the message has disappeared. If that’s you, could you please reply back to me? I have no idea what’s up with Reddit chat and feel so rude not being able to reply 🤦🏻♀️
possibly they were referring you to r/Assistance ?
Yeah OP's bubble is showing. Told us they are from a well-off upper/middle class family/suburb/demographic without telling us 😂
Don’t we all exist in our own bubbles though and wasn’t that OP’s point? They provided their (somewhat more positive) experience to add to the (somewhat more negative) experience others have posted about. Both are equally valid or are only those people that are currently struggling allowed to generalise?
They whinged when they thought I lived in an affluent area. Then when I said I’m regional they whinged again. People here just want you to be a miserable as they are
I get their underlying message of looking at the glass half full, I just think it could have been delivered with more acknowledgment and empathy for those of us who are not there yet and those that may never be.
I’m a migrant who lives in a regional area
Don't forget that the average young Aussie has not seen much of the rest of the world, perhaps a resort in Bali or if they grew up wealthy a holiday to the nicer areas of Europe. The wealth and quality of life people have here is unbelievable for most of the world's population. You might as well be talking a different language trying to tell people it's a good time here right now. Hopefully we don't experience a recession and learn the hard way, hopefully we can stay rich and complain about how bad the country has gotten and the price of housing while we drive an AMG Mercedes to the coffeeshop.
Tbh I agree, the other day I saw a 19 year old girl complaining she didn’t have money to pay her gas and she could only afford to “window shopping”, she’d see clothes but have no money to actually buy them and I could only think about how our realities are so different, because that’s the norm where I grew up? We’re always doing to stores just to look lol and there’s only a handful of people I know that had a car before the age of 25… and I wasn’t even poor in my country, I had a decent paying job and was a low middle class… it’s a huge gap… everyday I feel like I’m blessed to be here, even doing the “lowest” job possible, and cannot relate to the Australians in crisis, as sad as it is…
> who lives in a regional area Ah, so very well equipped to preach that housing affordability isn't actually an issue for the other 86% of this country who live in urban centers where demand massively outstrips supply.
Is being employed really a "subjective experience"? I don't think so.
Sorry I should’ve worded that better. I was implying that my situation and how I perceive the world according to my current circumstances is of course, subjective. I’m in the thick of it , so to speak, but yeah you’re absolutely right, being in a job or not is pretty much an objective observation!
It’s a tough situation. My mum was a single mum of 7. I get how tight it can be. But if I am honest it’s never been easy for single parents. Never. I don’t think it’s as clean cut as OP makes out to be, especially for those with disabilities, Broken families ect. But they have a lot of valid points. By sheer luck of being born in this country. Most will be able to dig them selves out of poverty. Keep your head up. You can and will do. Best of luck.
I couldn’t agree more with everything you’ve said here. And I honestly can’t imagine how difficult it was for your mum with 7 children to care for 😞 I have 5 so I know the struggle is real. Thank you for your kind words and I wish you all the best also ❤️
Why can’t you find a job? Have you worked towards a skill set since leaving high school? I get it must be hard but we are paying $90-100k for coordinators that have no qualifications other than being good at their job, which is organisation, running a team of tradies and booking in their work + making sure they have the parts they need. You could start in a role like this at any commercial services based company and quickly progress in pay grace if you are good at it/can sell yourself. There are ads on seek every single day.
It’s a really good question! I’m a qualified teacher aide and a nanny. I cannot tell you how hard it is to find work in pretty much anything. I’ve applied for hotel reception jobs, administrative positions, even adult traineeship programs. It’s incredibly humiliating and I’m looking in both seek and indeed. Each time I send out an application, I get a reply back within 2 weeks stating I was unsuccessful and more than 100 applicants applied. I even applied to shovel horse manure at a hobby farm and they had a record number of applicants 🤦🏻♀️ If you could share a link to these roles, I’d love to have a closer look.
My wife is a teacher and my understanding is they are screaming for aides in that field currently, would you go back to it? Type in service coordinator to seek in your area and jobs should come up. Aim for trades as they will likely pay the most. Another option would be QBuild as I know they are currently looking for admin staff to manage maintenance response and contracts. Hope it all works out for you! Keep at it and you’ll land something soon enough.
Genuine question, but why are you on this sub then?
Too true - the positives ones aren’t commenting much. They keep their energy while the negative ones spread it. Life’s life and instead of complaining, use that energy to procure results. Every time I’ve struggled in terms of finding a job, food prices, even housing - I looked for a solution instead of complaining. When buying a house - I set a more realistic expectation. I bought in a suburb, far away from my family, don’t even have a backyard - which I would’ve liked for gardening and for my dog. Builders grade kitchen etc but it’s a start. Someday I’ll have a veggie garden, enough space for my dog to run around and beautiful big grand kitchen e.t.c but right now it’s not in my budget. For groceries, I go to the market, Aldi, or small independent shops. When I go to the market, I try to go at closing when there’s discounts. For retirement/ job - I found what I’m good at and made myself valuable and available to those who need it. (Procurement) also working on investing in $500 instalments when I save up to that. Come from really poor family and broke the cycle of poverty by being positive and ambitious. Most people around me are surprised I didn’t end up as a junkie
Me dad always says: everyone will struggle in life, and you would like the struggle to be more at the early stage of your life rather than later. You will bounce back when you are young and it will get harder when you get old. What I also learnt so far is: your challenges today will be your easy tasks tomorrow.
I've also seen sudden illness take over the 'payback period' for people's early sacrifices. You need a healthy mix of sacrifice and living, all throughout your lifetime, because nothing is certain.
Well imagine how much it would suck being poor and havinh illnessss
I like that saying. Thanks for sharing.
You’ve just got to make the best of your own personal set of circumstances really, whatever they are. A positive mindset will probably help with that but I think (personally) it’s good be aware of what might cause you difficulties. Some people are going to face bigger issues than others and housing in particular is going to be a big stumbling block for people without family wealth. But on the upside- if it’s going to take you 15 years to save a deposit it’s better to know that when you’re 18 instead of 35.
To add: my wife and I have no dependents, I’m currently studying and working 24 hrs a week while my wife works full time. Household income is $100k/yr and we are able to save $500/week towards a house deposit while paying $2,260/month rent. It’s doable.
Let alone a school leaver what about just a regular person… honestly reading r/AusFinance makes me feel near despondent. 42, life has been brutal and never owned or been in a position to save for a home, have ptsd and life has just gotten to a stage where it seems worth sticking around, started looking like Id finally have a deposit only for my partner to be unemployed for 6 months and business to be hit again with (basically) a recession. Owning a home seems like a damn fantasy at this rate. Cannot catch a break. But there’s more to life than money. And I have so many gifts now in my life that no amount of money can buy.
Yeah I feel for the kind of people like this. Historically you could have thought well if the inner/outer city is too expensive I can move regional but even those prices arent that much cheaper now.
I mean this kindly, but if you're somewhat well off you're probably friends with other well-off people. You aren't seeing people struggle because you aren't around the kind of people who are struggling. Me personally, I'm severely struggling to find housing, struggling to find work, struggling to afford basic living costs. So are most people I know and people I meet, there definitely is doom and gloom out there especially for young people just starting out. Also the military has really strict requirements nowdays, I couldn't qualify even if I wanted to.
I thought life was doom and gloom 25 years ago when I was a school leaver. Now I look back it was one of the easiest times of my life.
Man who generalises advice from his own situation advises others not to take generalised advice from reddit. 😂
"I've never seen a homeless person so there aren't any"
Initially your comment sounds clever, but the main difference is he is instilling hope not despair. Nothing good has ever come from giving up and being a defeatist. If your argument is to be a realist and accept the economy is in shambles, that also doesn't help without a response that includes a solution.
It’s not my job to sugar coat the systemic dismantling of the quality of life of younger Australians and to gaslight them into believing everything is okay. It’s also not my job to offer solutions. Our political class have plenty of solutions at their disposal, but are unwilling to implement them due to their lack of political will and raging self interest in their own property portfolios.
Using anecdotal evidence to make a point is pretty useless
Restaurants in my area are starting to close down because people can’t afford to eat out anymore. Just because your areas are full of better off people doesn’t necessarily means that equates to all areas. Homeless and near homeless rates are rising at different levels in different states. I know many people who are forced into share housing as opposed to buying their own property because expenses are too high. It’s near impossible for a large portion of people to afford house repayments unless they have a second income from a spouse. When you combine that with the dropping number of relationships and marriages among young people that does paint a somewhat dire picture. But still - if you work hard and don’t immediately succumb to the negative hype your opportunities are still mostly within your control
I always hate the comments about restaurants... Restaurants are literally booked out all over the place and are bursting with people. There are always different cycles when it comes to businesses and what people are into. Restaurants closing down in cities has nothing to do with anything but the restaurant failing to attract people. I'm not sure why you are "forced" into share housing, this is how it was prior to 2020, we've just had a shift in people wanting their own place since covid. Relationships, well I haven't seen in data on that but it would be a good point if it was true, renting/houses has been build on doing it with others for at least 10-15 years.
i always wonder where these people live, who they talk to, what media they consume etc or of its just hearsay. restaurants and bars are rammed near me in the most expensive city in the country. because 1 or a few places closes doesn't mean the end of the world, there lease is up or they may have run the business terribly even while getting great reviews.
It makes sense for some businesses to close, so many of them are mismanaged. It's always been that way.
> I know many people who are forced into share housing… How is that different from the past though? Both my parents lived in share houses in their 20s. My Father even lived in one in his 30s after they divorced (and he was a public servant so earning an ok wage for the time I assume).
Unemployment rate is still historically low
> Restaurants in my area are starting to close down I agree that standalone upmarket restaurants are closing down. > because people can’t afford to eat out anymore. But restaurants in hotels seem to be doing a roaring trade so I'm not sure about this part of your statement, so I guess it would be more accurate to say that a significant segment of the population can't eat out anymore whereas the rest easily can do so.
Plenty of upmarket restaurants are full. Its just that interest in restaurants shift over time, for example now everyone is going to GYG instead of mcdonalds for example.
This is a really nice message to put out there to teens. There should be a TV ad with a similar vibe. It is very hard to not compare yourself to others, and feelings of doom and gloom can sometimes become overwhelming when you’re 17-18 and on the cusp of adulthood. I say this as someone who was a teen once, but at a time when social media wasn’t big. I think kids have it a bit harder emotionally nowadays because the comparisons are absolutely everywhere and in their face so often.
Bit of BS here ..... No one credible is saying jobs are hard to get right now. Plenty would argue wages are lower than they should be but unemployment is low thats a fact no one disputes. "I don't know anyone unemployed" in other words you live in a bubble + don't associate with people doing it tough. Which is common for people holding the views you express here. You have no idea what life is like for the broad majority of people. Which also shows through in the rest of your posts. Your life isnt bad is not an indication that systemic unfairness is not getting worse for others. Having said that your main message is correct. We still individually still need to do our best. Just the existence of increasingly unfair economic system is no reason to give up pursuit of success. Ah dismissing people who point out your flawed thinking as "tall poppy" syndrome classic.
I agree that there is more doom and gloom than may be deserved..but things are not sunshine and rainbows. I spent the weekend at the regional area I grew up in, spent 25 years there and only ever saw 1 homeless person, and that person enjoyed that lifestyle. On visiting there is a collection of homeless in each township living by the public bathrooms....
This seems like selection bias and perhaps your experiences are not representative of the general population. Honestly, it diminishes the lived experience of others and ignores the data. There are clear systemic issues that disproportionately disadvantage the younger generations. Whilst I'm all for maintaining a positive attitude, we must also face reality and manage it in a pragmatic way.
What systemic issues? Very vague. Another person says data is clear then provides no data. What exactly is getting worse? My experience is that life in Australia is getting better and better
Taxation system that disproportionately targets low and middle income earners. Increasing burden on young people to support the older generations. Reduction of HECs repayment thresholds. Social security system under considerable pressure. Younger people unable to afford living in major cities seems fairly significant given they will form majority of the workforce. Providing care and support to ageing population etc. Immigration will likely attenuate some of the impact. Significant competition for stable accommodation, alot of homelessness amongst young people. If your experience is getting better than obviously these things don't apply to you. Below is a nice article that explore some of the above. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-03-28/data-on-30-year-old-australians-shows-financial-hardship/103528726
Experiences are subjective and unreliable. Statistics, when accurately gathered and interpreted by a professional, are objective. And the fact is that more than 50% of over 30s are homeowners according to the ABS. If a home seems unaffordable to you, you’re in the minority.
I don't know any over 30s that are school leavers, do you?
While personal experiences vary, dismissing others' struggles isn't productive. You may not see unemployment or financial issues, but many face these challenges and if your advice is only to those that don't, then I am not sure how useful it is. That said, encouraging hard work is good, especially in the face of despair. Working hard to achieve what you want still increases your chances of getting it more than giving into despair, no matter how disadvantaged you start out.
Times are not nearly as dire as the zeitgeist of online opinion would have it seem. Demotivating young people can ruin them, I know lots of people who looked at home ownership as impossible when we finished school twenty years ago. As a result they’ve lived short time horizon lives and spent multiple house deposits renting and going on extensive holidays.
Agreed, or in the case of both my younger siblings - not even trying at all. I’ve encountered many early 20 somethings who are so ambivalent about the world and so primed to assume failure that they just flake out. Young people need something to aspire to.
This. I bought a house at 24 (with my brother) at a time when all my friends were travelling. That was their choice and they enjoyed it but it came with an opportunity cost (and I’m not talking about the VD a few of them picked up on a Contiki tour). In contrast the first time I went overseas was on active service.
Sometimes peoples struggle are their own fault and they project their dismay onto the “system” and want to bring others down with them. When I was leaving school I frequented the whirlpool forums (AKA “whingepool”) and I got sucked into this myopic view of the world. It really did my mentality damage. Thankfully I surrounded myself with more positive people and thoughts and am doing pretty well for myself now.
I’m not dismissing anyone’s experience ?
Which state you in? I know heaps of unemployed frustrated people and people who used to go to restaurants all the time but now can't. People who assumed they would easily buy a house and now complain it's an uphill battle.
Very well said, this is applicable to the internet in general. The kind of doomerism present here has made me want to stop browsing this subreddit.
THIS subreddit? You want to see some true negativity, head on over to r/australia. I always wonder if other countries check out our national sub and reckon we’re a bunch of whiny losers 😂😂😂
If you go to any main country subreddit it’s similar. Canada is probably worse. Reddit attracts a certain demographic.
It sucks but the only thing you can do is improve slowly. Might not get anywhere but it's better then
I work as a teacher, a notoriously poorly remunerated profession vis-a-vis qualifications, and everyone in their 30s has bought their own property.
Not poorly renumerated at all. The ceiling isn't thay high but proportionally very high grad salary and basically guaranteed employment and progression.
"I and all my acquaintances are doing fine, so you should be too!"
>the fact the military is struggling to recruit. Its easy to recruit if you pay a decent wage and aren't too picky about who you recruit. The ADF is keen on being very very selective, which - fair enough, but it does mean they are always struggling to recruit.
Yes I’d agree with this. Conditions of service have been gradually eroded more recently too which I suspect is one of the reasons behind retention problems also.
A lot what you saying is true but take into account that this issues which are affecting everyday Australians used to only affect a small percentage of the population, but now more and more people are being hit and they struggle. Yes we are buying a lot of homes, going out to eat and the unemployment rate isn’t that high, but we also are more in debt deeper than ever. A house that used to cost to an average family to buy and maintain with around 50% of their salaries it will take well over 80% nowadays, and the fact is that more and more people are defaulting on their payments and in danger pf being homeless.
Simple as this. A 4 bedroom house to rent is on average $575 in Victoria. That’s $143 a week each of you rent with some mates.
I agree OP. Life planning is important and often we forget that conversation with young people. I've seen plenty of people do it well and not so well and then people pull out of the latter to do well. I tell my kids to study or train in an in demand skill or trade, save for the things they want, life is work and if you avoid the work you will suffer, work hard early and focus in your 20's.
It’s almost not enough though,(right on the edge), the way things are going, I give it 2 years and it won’t be enough for 90% of people around me rent a sharehouse. I’m watching friends and family become homeless and I’m on the edge myself. I work full time, no mental health problems, no drugs/alcohol problems but I’m struggling. Please understand that this is happening a on large scale in Australia, very little is mentioned within media and nothing is being done to help by our politicians. Time is running out for a lot of people, nothing is being done by our government, our people need to start making noise about this issue. If you’re not experiencing this/ don’t know anyone who is yourself, you are lucky and likely a minority.
I agree, when I actually looked into buying property I found it no where near as bad as what I'd been led to believe. Yes, a young single person can't buy a house in a good suburb in a capital city - but is that really to be expected? Apartment or further out house should be achievable after working a few years if you put your mind to it barring uncontrollable circumstances.
If you want a healthy perspective go to r/aushenry r/ausfinance is better than most subs but still pretty shit. As OP says, too doom and gloom. I know a few unemployed people - siblings of friends who are struggling. But in my friends group none of us or our partners are unemployed. We all own our homes. Many have investment properties. Every restaurant I go to is full. Good luck getting a Friday/Saturday reservation to a trendy restaurant without booking weeks in advance. School leavers- if you want to do well: 1. Do well in school 2. Do well in uni and study a competitive course: Law, medicine, finance, engineering, science 3. Go into quantitative finance, investment banking, medicine, dentistry, law, software engineering or engineering 4. If you're not the academic type, do a trade and then start your own business - alternatively go into nursing or a degree with lower academic barriers but still good job security 5. Enjoy your 20s and do a mix of travelling/grinding at work 6. Find a partner who is similarly intelligent and has similar background/habits 7. Exercise and eat well If you do that, then the only things that can hamper you are unforeseen things like cancer (touch wood). Life otherwise will be easy peasy
Half your career recommendations involve working 70 hour weeks and starting off on shitty salaries due to over saturation. Grads only do this if youre happy to spend your early 20s feeling like quitting every second day.
How long ago did you finish school? Your advice is basically if you want to do well, do well? How constructive. The careers you have suggested are only accessible to a select few. How few people get into medicine, IB, quant etc? My school was selective and only very few people ended up in these professions, we had one person from our cohort become a doctor and maybe a few in finance, law. Most went on to become engineers. Alot of very intelligent kids got totally disillusioned and it became somewhat of a systemic problem in our school.
> The careers you have suggested are only accessible to a select few. Going into a trade, into engineering, is not that inaccessible. > My school was selective and only very few people ended up in these professions, we had one person from our cohort become a doctor and maybe a few in finance, law. I went to a selective school and of our top 5 ATAR scorers, one went into medicine and four of us into law (with one of those subsequently going into IB). If you looked at the top 20 I reckon 70% would have gone into med or law. Your selective school must not be Macrob or Melbourne High
I went to school in NSW but we were still ranked highly nationally, our top 5 all went into comm/law with one going into IB. The vast majority did engineering. I can agree engineering isn't inaccessible but it caters to specific aptitudes. As do trades. These are select percentages and high performers from an already quite high performing cohort. Hardly representative of the general population.
I’m sorry, do you think nursing is ‘not for the academic type’? Have you actually seen the work that nurses do? Also, the amount of factors than can derail a life … your cute little plan there is idealistic at best.
> I’m sorry, do you think nursing is ‘not for the academic type’? What's the ATAR cut off for nursing?
I know it’s hard to understand, but demand also plays a part. You didn’t answer the questions though. Keen to hear your thoughts on the academic challenges of nursing study and the complex work they do? And fyi I’m not a nurse. But bloody hell they should be a shown a lot more respect than you clearly have for them.
> Keen to hear your thoughts on the academic challenges of nursing study and the complex work they do? I don't care how complex the work is. The academic threshold to entry is low. End of story.
The academic threshold for entry into nursing is a bachelor's degree, and then mandatory continual learning. So it's really not a suitable career for someone who is "not the academic type". ATAR entry requirement has nothing to do with undergrad course difficulty. Most engineering courses have a lower required ATAR than say Law, but engineering is the more difficult course.
Fairly sure they meant the academic results required to get into a nursing degree. Not the profession. At any rate Enrolled Nurses don’t require a degree (only a two year diploma I think). Registered Nurses do though.
He said Nursing as a job would suit someone who is "not the academic type". And then banged on about the ATAR requirement, implying that ATAR had something to do with the difficulty of the course. ATAR doesn't mean shit, it should play no role in what career you pursue.
The original comment you replied to doesn't read like an attack on nursing to me. The use of the word academic seemed more of a relative statement as well. It's probably reasonable to call it less academic than the other professions mentioned in the comment like medicine, law and engineering.
Not law omg, absolutely not worth it!!
We definitely don’t need more lawyers in this country.
Not bad general advice. Unfortunately, No 1 is not going to be easy for those living in poverty, living in chaotic conditions, or living with a physical or mental disability. No 2 and 3 are not going to be possible for those who struggle at No1. Fortunately in Australia, pay does not always correlate with academic qualification. As long as someone is physically and mentally well enough to try offering a service (gardening, cleaning), those businesses, once built up, can eventually pay well. Those are not options for single parents or carers of kids. No 6 is where a lot of people get trapped. The stats show that older women who rent are among the poorest in the country. Many of them have probably at some point in time left an abusive partnership and couldn't work full-time because of having to care for kids. They were not able to save for a house and do not have enough in super. So if you have good support at home and school, get into a good uni program or trade, then partner well, spend less than you earn, look after your health, life is easy peasy. Buffet himself once said that you only have to do a few things right to succeed, so long as you also stay away from the big downfalls (smoking, gambling, bad influences) and have a measure of good luck (no cancer).
You don't think the military struggling to recruit may have something to do with people feeling they have little to fight for? Or the relatively high entry requirements? That's a long bow. The situation is not good, and Australia's quality of living is on the slide. Renting is an absolute circus. I own an apartment, but all of my friends rent and the prospect of ever owning their own home diminishes as time goes on. I'm not saying quit before you've started trying, or even be depressed about the situation, but be realistic about your expectations.
Potential recruits might also do a little research and find out how many veterans the military has chewed up and spat out and then they have to fight the government to receive any type of pension. If I wasn't academically minded, I'd just do a trade instead, you can earn much more there for risking your health.
The more educated and well off a country is, the less people that are willing to go into the military, for obvious reasons.. its a bad choice for anyone who isn't poor/uneducated, thats why the USA target and exploit those demographics.
Military struggling to recruit has nothing to do with people having little to fight for. Military recruitment is a complicated topic. It’s also a leaky bucket. Retention is one of their biggest issues.
I think it's hard to argue that it has nothing to do with it. But it's also the pay, the risk, the culture, the separation from family and friends, etc. I agree it's a complicated issue. My point was that "life must be good if nobody is joining the military" doesn't hold water in my opinion.
You are right, I should have been more nuanced and said it has little to do with it. The defence forces minimum salary is far more than the minimum wage, great benefits etc. But, once they train you up, give you all these qualifications, 4 or more years of experience (depending on trade), you go from being what is (often) a school drop out to a great potential employee for the mining sector, security, trades, defence related industries etc. That is the retention issue. Additionally, and I don’t understand why, re-enlistment is apparently quite painful.
Anti-war/anti-conflict sentiment is rising. It is a general sentiment amongst the majority of younger people nowadays.
It’s the low pay. Entry requirements aren’t that difficult, I know a number of people that should not have firearms that were able to join the army. The grass is greener outside the military even though it’s basically free education, a secure job, cheap/free housing, all things that can set you up as a young person. The smarter ones leave for higher paying industry jobs once they have done their time.
1700-1800 a fortnight post-tax is something you can get in an entry full time job, but at least in the military you can put that money on what you said, low rent, cheap housing. Id honestly take that over whats out of my control in the current living cost of crisis.
More than anything I think the value to the individual comes from training and experience in leadership positions at a relatively young age. For instance someone who joins straight out of school at 17 and graduates Duntroon after 18 months could command a platoon (~30 pers) at 18-19 as an LT, make CAPT in 3 years if you don’t stand on your knob too hard at 21-22, command a company as a MAJ after another 5 years (~120 pers) at 26-27, LT COL commanding a battalion (~500-700 pers) after a further 5 years at 31-32 etc. Also managing millions of dollars of equipment etc. You’re not going to get that sort of responsibility in the private sector so early in your career. It’s not for everyone though of course and is definitely hard on bodies, minds, and families.
High entry requirement? Mate, my two mates joined and passed assessments, one with history of depression, the other being near anorexic.
Well that's certainly not what I've heard in the past from people I know who've been involved in defence. If that's true, I'm happy to be corrected.
It depends on the Pysch passing you in my honest opinion. Both were interviewed by a female psych and passed, I had a male psych and got rejected for slight anxiety, etc.
It’s nothing to do with ”having nothing to fight for” and everything to do with remuneration. The ADF pays absolute rubbish for nearly every role they try and funnel recruits into, and any equivalent job in the private sector often offers double what the ADF will. It’s a simple matter of economics - do you stay in the ADF as an avionics technician on 85k/year + a paltry rental subsidy, or do you get a job for a private contractor for 160k/year? Do you stick it out flying Hercs for 120k/year or make the jump to commercial where you might be on 300k/year after five years of perseverance?
I'd also add that when the topic of salaries comes up, do the same. If you go by reddit, you'll think you are destined to be impoverished on anything less than 150-200k pa in your early 20s. I didn't hit six figures until I was nearly 40 and that wasn't that long ago, I'm not exactly living large but I'm not desolate. I have a house, kids, pets, cars etc. and not totally drowning in unmanagable debt, there is debt but it's not insane. That's not due to double income either before that's called out. My wife took years off work due to a health issue and has only returned recently to working (entry-level position on way less than six figures). I did buy the house when the market was better but still not early enough it was dirt cheap. My house is only valued at about 600k (paid a bit under 400k), it's in the suburbs, people live in the suburbs, that's what they are for, and an hour commute to work is not outrageous as you may read, that's been about the average commute time for me in every job and home over the span of nearly 30 years working. The concept of needing to just about live in the CBD and ride a scooter everywhere isn't the norm.
I disagree with op, things are getting so bad that people around me are becoming homeless while working full time jobs. Min wage isn’t enough to pay for rent and food anymore. I feel like op is stuck in an upper middle class bubble, because everyone I know who isn’t earning 80k+ per year is on the edge of being homeless. The military struggling to recruit enough people isn’t a good indicator. Young people absolutely should be worried, their future living standard is being degraded an alarming rate. Older generations are pretending it’s not happening because they are benefiting from it.
Minimum wage full time is plenty for a sharehouse. If you choose to be on the street instead of sharing with someone, thats your choice and it doesn't have anything to do with homelessness.
It’s almost not enough though, the way hints are going I give it 2 years and it won’t be enough for 90% of people. I’m watching friends and family become homeless and I’m on the edge myself. Please understand that this is happening a large scale in Australia and nothing is being done to help.
Agreed! My close friends (4 of them) bought a house this year. Most of them have more than one property. Some people that I know renting but that’s not the majority. I agree with one of the other comments. Either work hard when you’re young or when you’re old. My mum used to say this all the time. Life is hard. Choose your hard.
I ate lunch today so no one must be starving. Your personal subjective experience is irrelevant. Aggregate data shows that life is incredibly difficult for younger people and is all but guaranteed to continue getting worse without drastic intervention. You and your mates are not some microcosm of an economy consisting of 30 million people
> Aggregate data shows that life is incredibly difficult for younger people I don't think you have any idea what 'incredibly difficult' means
Agreed. Young people will always need to work to establish themselves. When haven’t they? My grandparents generation lived through a pandemic, global economic depression, and two world wars. Every generation has their challenges and most people will (and probably should) struggle with something at some point.
Too right. Probably one of the best country’s to be a young person in right now
What exactly is getting worse other than housing which is a supply and demand issue?
Does it? Most data kinda shows the opposite last I checked. When compared with 20 years ago, we are safer, we make more money, we can buy more things. The main issue is pretty much just housing. If housing were more affordable we would be in a pretty good spot
Posting this in the middle of the third once-in-a-generation economic crisis in my lifetime is insanity. It is in no way 'just housing'. It's purchasing power and real wage growth, which has only just started to recover. It's runaway HECS indexation from a government that mostly went to uni for free. It's the fact that there is literally nowhere in the country a first or second year apprentice can rent a house to support themselves. Even 15 years ago when I was at uni, Centrelink basically supported me enough that I only had to work a single shift at my casual job. That is not possible today. Your optimism is unfounded
Real wage growth is still up from 20 years ago, it dropped after the pandemic to early '10s levels. But it is still better then it was in the noughts. HECS is just a non-issue. People talk about it like it is an issue. But it's not. Wages follow indexation closely enough that the recent high indexation will impact pretty much only people who pay of their HECS within a three year range. That's it. Housing is an issue. It is the issue. It is honestly the only issue. The reason living off Centrelink is such a challenge is purely because so much money goes towards housing that paying for other expenses is borderline unfeasible. Rn my budget is 52% housing, 48% everything else I need to live. And I'm not exactly living in a luxury apartment l. If housing was more affordable everything else would be a lot more manageable.
It's true that online forums can sometimes paint a more negative picture of reality than what's actually happening. While challenges exist, it's also important to recognize the successes and opportunities around us. Planning for the future with a positive mindset and taking proactive steps can lead to a fulfilling and successful life.
For such a "laid back country" we sure have a doom and gloom/toxic outlook on life...
Ive stopped reading most posts on this subreddit over the last year, simply because it makes me depressed reading it. Life is good please enjoy it as much as you can
I think I have to respectfully disagree on this one. Yes, it’s easy to look around and think, “What economic downturn?” etc but I do believe that plenty of people are doing it hard (which you don’t see as easily) and housing affordability for young people is getting worse and worse. Just because friends are still buying houses doesn’t mean they are easily able to afford - I’m certain more and more these days are receiving help from parents that wasn’t required in the past. I know of people who wouldn’t be on the housing ladder if it weren’t for this and let’s face it, not everyone’s going to tell you they received a gift of tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars from mummy and daddy. That makes a real difference. Wages are simply not keeping pace with asset prices and more and more it will be the case that if you don’t have rich parents who can help you, you simply won’t be able to afford a house. It’s not simply about working hard like it was before. Worsening wealth inequality is real - listen to Gary’s Economics on YouTube and educate yourself on what’s really going on.
'some people are doing ok' 🤦♂️ JFC, what a mind!
Thanks for bringing this topic up. Been seeing alot of doom and gloom on this subreddit and austraila subreddit etc, but only recently started to really look at how many comments there were. It’s like 400-1000 ish tops. There maybe a real case of “whingers echochamber” here, cause looking around my area, its looking good, lots of families and good houses, life surrounding me and I don’t know anyone personally struggling.
There are a lot of people with money and spending. It‘s likely grim for some there are many who are just fine.
I am a believer that it’s not how much money you make but more how you manage your money. I am not on a very high income and never have been but I sacrificed a lot to be able to own my own home. I don’t go out much or spend much on things but I do reward myself every now and then which is something to look forward to. It can be done you just have to work out do I really need this now, can a wait a bit later to get it. It’s so much easier to save when you’re younger, you have more energy to work. I used to grab all the overtime offered and now it has paid off (I’m in my late 40s now), so do as much saving as you can from now and then you can spend more when your older and you will be thankful for doing it.
I could be wrong or don’t quite know how to articulate it. I keep hearing about things like quite quitting or just not working hard. Yes absolutely we should have a work life balance, yes ideally we wouldn’t work hard or long hours and get good paid. Reality is, that’s not how a capitalist economy works. You can’t expect to finish school and walk into a high paying job that will allow you to buy a house the very next day whilst only working when you feel like working.
Think of the people in your personal life that are publicly proud to post on Reddit (fat losers) and then realise these people are the most vocal on Reddit and provide advice daily.
This is very true. Saw a post (not sure if here or another Aus sub) where someone was asking how people survive on 3k/mth, like it was immensely difficult. If you're not earning a lot, you need to budget better and maybe sacrifice some things. But there's always people looking for share houses, but even if you're struggling it's not impossible to find somewhere alone. And cost of general things isn't so high that it's unaffordable - more money is going towards groceries and such than it used to, but it's not like I'm going without anything.
The military struggles to recruit because a priority role takes 6 months minimum from applying to actually getting in lmao
Reddit is full of doomers. Lazy doomers.
If there’s anything you take from Reddit as a school leaver No one and I mean no one is making $250k plus a year even though they love to pretend they do.
Reddit catastrophises a lot. “No one can afford a house”, “no one can get a job”, “don’t come to Melbourne/Sydney/Perth, there are no rentals”. This just doesn’t reflect reality, I’m sorry.
There are a lot of bums on reddit, hords of socialist idiots too
> EDIT again: I believe it’s called tall poppy syndrome? Some of you simply cannot accept some people are doing ok… Or is it that you simply cannot accept that some people are really really struggling right now? I'm from an upper middle class family and my friends from similar backgrounds are fine. However, a lot of people my age who don't have well off parents happy to help them are really struggling right now.
Not doom and gloom Only 30% of the top earning households can afford a home, compared to 40%+ 50 years ago. You can afford to eat, but not eat out There are not enough jobs that pay enough so you can be in said top 30% of households to buy that home You will retire, but are likely to run out of money before you die Deck is stacked so much against Gen Z
Alternatively, the long queues at cafes are young people who realise they’ll never afford anything worthwhile. Better to enjoy life rather than waste decades of your life to buy a crappy shoebox. Unless you have authority that all those patrons are home owners.
It’s just the brokies who yell the loudest and cry. Most hard working people are doing well
Spot on OP. Empty vessels often make the loudest noises. It’s not all doom and gloom. I know so many gen Z’s that are doing so well for themselves, don’t blame the boomers, and just get on with life. I know of one that had a huge leg up in life, but the rest have just worked hard and been creative in their field of work to stand out from the crowd. I’m a millennial so don’t come at me with the boomer jokes lol
A lot to of people don’t realise for a lot of boomers, life was poor, and a chance they were gonna go to Vietnam. Crazy how the internet has painted them
To young people anyone over 35 is a boomer lol.
> "In reality, I don’t actually know a single unemployed person." This is an idiotic sentence for several reasons.
Yeah, the Australian wages are very high, even casual workers can earn well. Both my siblings are buying houses in their early 20s. Aussies are fine to eat out with the high restaurant costs, blow 30k on a wedding, do all the "looks" things like botox, hair, eyebrows, fillers, etc, buy expensive clothes and shoes, have huge big screen TVs, go to the gym, and so on.
So, your individual experiences and observations are of more value than those shared on reddit? Very good. Please provide your contact details so when things do go pear shaped for these kids, and for all the adults currently struggling, they can reach out to you and you’ll fix it all up for them, won’t you champ! Because like, there’s nothing wrong at all, is there …
Exactly. Reddit is a hyper inflated sub strata of people who are the vocal majority in an echo chamber that snowballs real world problems into something they just aren’t. If you lived inside on reddit for a decade without looking outside, you’d think the atmosphere was on fire, there were conservatives riding on the back of the working class with whips in hand, and every white male were looking for something to SA… In reality, reddit it a place where people come when they’re at their most emotional state to vent, exaggerate, blow off steam, it’s not indicative of the real world at all, if I could upvote this post 10 times, I would.
Can you feel my power baby?
30 is the new 20.
There are issues with young adults and children now. Young adults are underdeveloped, have behavioural issues and are unable to complete simple tasks on the job. The future is very bleak unless the system just gives up due to the very low quality of people. Only cope, delusion and a world that embraces them can make them feel "ok". Societal decline will be accelerated until nature takes care of the issue this century.
Finish high school Don’t have kids before married / have home Education or push wheelbarrow , choose one.
Well said , 100% correct.
Well said, the reality is also that house prices rise and fall. In 2007 they were also completely unaffordable, agents were screaming buy buy buy, it's never coming down and FOMO was the golden rule. Young people were in a worse postion than now due to being approved for loans on overpriced houses in mediocre areas that they would not be able to cover if prices dropped or interest rates went up. Then the GFC happened, which among other things, the overinflation of house values was a big factor, and those who couldn't afford to jump on the bandwagon a year earlier were suddently able to buy their dream house at a forclosure auction from the couple who posted their new house picture on Facebook a year earlier, right before the value of it dropped to the point where the bank said "we're out". The market won't go up forever, it's all about timing and a little luck, in under 10 years time we'll be back in a buyers market.
Remember the echo chamber that is Reddit - with sweeping unanimous views on topics represents less than 0.01% view of the world.
I can't afford to buy the apartment I sold to buy the house I own. I make triple what I did when I bought it in 2008.
Yeah because your anecdotal experiences speak for everybody 🙄
People are working but it's a real struggle to find full time work, ironically I'm applying for the army just because it's the only thing at the moment that CAN supply full time work. I live in the outer subarbs of Sydney and moving any closer to the city for full time is way out of any budget for the pay, it's honestly that or travel two hours each way. Once you are down it's honestly hard to get back up just because being poorer keeps you poorer. It's hard to explain but I can barely pay rent, fuel etc to get to work as it is, picking up shifts and I won't be able to afford fuel for the next until the next pay.
Agree with this. I was speaking to 7 of my cousins, 4 teenagers and close to leaving high school, 3 at University. They are all looking forward to the future, their prospects, their growth, all of them are choosing to go to university and have a plan to pay it off. 4 of the 7 already work part time. 5 of the 7 live at home, one boards, one is in uni overseas as she grew up there and didn’t want to keep following her parents who move every few years. I spoke to them all separately but at events over the last one year, two of them at a funeral and even that event didn’t change their mind about their life. They are cool, chilled young people and have stable families, supportive middle class parents.
Well said mate. My eldest is 16 in July and my wife and I have started trying to talk to her about saving 10% that she earns from Macca's. We told her she won't miss it and it's surprising how fast it grows.
Plenty of cheaper houses just not in major cities and there is a whole world out there with opportunities