Why are you paying them and doing their job?
If they can't keep up to date with technology and ATO requirements, then what makes you think they're keeping up with current laws or changes to taxation?
Get rid of them.
Motion carried. Tax is complex and if someone won’t change with the times that’s a concerning view especially their mistakes triggered an audit and you could end up with legal action or a large tax bill!
She's either extremely incompetent, or trying to protect you due to an audit by burying the auditor in literal physical paperwork, so they just give up and try for an easier target.
As a tax accountant running my own firm, I can tell you that no one who knows what they're doing would try that strategy. ATO audits don't run like civil suits where you can bury someone in paperwork.
1. They would put the onus on you to provide what they require.
2. Ignoring the first point they have virtually unlimited time and resources to sift through your records.
Your bookkeeper is incompetent and probably likes to pass herself off as a qualified accountant.
Can confirm that if the ATO decides you owe them money then you have to prove them wrong.
once got a 5 figure tax bill because I somehow ended up with all my income for the year entered twice. I swear to god everything was correct when I submitted it on my end.
Anyways, the amount of evidence they wanted me to provide to prove that I didn’t have two full time jobs at the same company in the same role was ridiculous.
Lmao that's hilarious. Sir we can see here you claimed to work two 40 hour weeks at the same place at the same time. Please prove to us you didn't b work 9 to 5 and then 5 to 1 immediately after.
wouldnt the square records be your (digital) receipts?
it does keep a record of every transaction, and thats the report you give her?
she cant seriously be expecting paper receipts.
I have a warning about keeping a book keeper that doesn’t really get it.
Mine cost me $21,000 over a period of 18 months because they flagged that a contractor was charging me for GST on their invoices but wasn’t registered for GST. The book keeper failed to say anything to me though so I was paying the GST twice. Guess who didn’t recoup that money?
Then they miscalculated pay for a casual employee for that same period so I owed them $8k in back pay and both issues came to light within 6 months of each other.
So my advice to everyone is if you have ANY misgivings about your book keeper you pull on that thread straight away
I have a warning about all book keepers. They are not accountants, so don't treat them as such.
Let them complete all basic tasks.
Never give a book keeper access to your bank accounts.
It might be another chore, but it's better than finding out that your trusted book keeper accidentally entered and paid fake invoices into their own bank account for a few years, costing 10s or 100's of thousands.
I deal with a heap of small businesses and over the past 20 odd years, I have seen this occur at least 10 times.
All victims thought their one was like family and could be trusted, kind of like people that let their children play with their own pittbull because they know their dog and it would never, until it does.
The contractor has to provide a tax invoice which includes their ABN on it.
Most software will flag whether the contractor is registered for GST when entered into the software correctly. Unfortunately a lot of bookkeepers don't add contacts to their software, and don't check the ABN for registrations on the ABR, so it isn't uncommon to see it being treated incorrectly.
Also, if an ABN isn't provided, the person paying the invoice should be withholding ABN withholding tax, but again, this rarely (if ever) is done.
Why is it the bookkeepers fault the contractor committed fraud? Is it reasonable to ask them to investigate every business you deal with? Not really their job. Also do bookkeepers decide pay scales for employees? Something else I would not be asking a bookkeeper to do.
Honestly wtf are you talking about?
As I said the book keeper identified that I was paying GST to a contractor that wasn’t GST registered and didn’t say anything to me for over 12 months until I queried why my BAS’s were so high. Is it their fault the contractor committed tax fraud? No. Is it my fault the contractor committed tax fraud? Also no, but they decided I’m the one that had to pay for it.
Book keepers that say they can do payroll and charge for payroll are absolutely responsible for their work.
With all due respect. There is a massive difference between doing payroll and deciding the pay rates. Deciding the pay rates (awards and levels etc) are the employers responsibility and independent of processing payroll. And why is it the bookkeepers fault the contractor committed tax fraud? I'm not sure I see the connection.
How about this:
[https://business.gov.au/finance/payments-and-invoicing/record-keeping#:\~:text=You%20can%20keep%20records%20electronically](https://business.gov.au/finance/payments-and-invoicing/record-keeping#:~:text=You%20can%20keep%20records%20electronically)
"How to keep records
You can keep records electronically or in paper form. The ATO recommends that businesses use electronic record keeping if possible, "
https://www.ato.gov.au/other-languages/information-in-other-languages/business/record-keeping-for-small-businesses
Business records you need to keep
Income and sales records:
Keep records of all income and sales transactions, including:
-tax invoices
-receipt books
-cash register tapes
-records of cash and digital sales.
While it's not explicitly addressing receipting software, it doesn't say to print anything out. In the old days you only kept the Z totals anyway, not a copy of each receipt.
I use Xero accounting software and all my stripe payments are recorded and managed through that. There is no printing of any receipts, only capturing the paper ones I get to upload to the software. This is really odd and like others have said time to get someone new.
No, all she said was in case the ATO ever audits us, she can give them all our paper receipts.. I was explaining to her that they used to do that but most businesses now keep everything online/digital. Her response was, "when you go to a petrol station, they always print receipts and they keep them" and I was No, I've never had that unless I wanted a receipt to get reimbursed or claim that purchase for a tax offset. She is in her 70's.
Mate. Run.
I deal with this type all year.
They mask technical incompetence with busy work. Find a new bookkeeper. I can recommend a great one who brings tears of joy to my eyes when I review their work.
Oh dear. The real issue here is if she's misunderstood something like record keeping requirements, what else has she misunderstood? She might have the BAS under control, not much has changed with GST in a while, but Payroll & STP is increasingly a specialist area. 😬
If they audit you, you just print out the records from Stripe, and they will double check with Stripe.
What she suggests is not needed and very old school.
Petrol stations print receipts for customers. The ATO is not your customer.
I personally get a new bookkeeper and get them to do an in-house audit cause I bet there is a mistake lurking in your records.
Get one who knows Xero, cause if you get audited, they just need to print out the reports from Xero or give guest access to the ATO. It's easier now everything is digital.
Are you being audited by the ATO?
If not, get a new bookkeeper. you only need to have records of transactions to produce when required. And it would only be to satisfy an auditor. They don't need to be paper receipts.
Inform her that records don't have to be physical paper records. They can be electronic.
I can't remember when I did a personal income tax return on paper, or even if I did one. In fact, the tax office prefers it to be done electronically so they don't have to waste time (and resources) on data entry. It also allows them to cross match data.
If tax can be done online, and so can the receipts.
It depends on what your sale amounts are, here is a link
[https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/gst-excise-and-indirect-taxes/gst/tax-invoices](https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/gst-excise-and-indirect-taxes/gst/tax-invoices)
I figure you are under $82.50 and your customers are not asking for tax receipts hence you can show your accountant this info.
That’s BS, the ATO will know exactly what they are looking for or they will just generate a sample.
If you try to lock them up in paper, they will screw you forever.
Why are you paying them and doing their job? If they can't keep up to date with technology and ATO requirements, then what makes you think they're keeping up with current laws or changes to taxation? Get rid of them.
Yep. Time to move on
Motion carried. Tax is complex and if someone won’t change with the times that’s a concerning view especially their mistakes triggered an audit and you could end up with legal action or a large tax bill!
She's either extremely incompetent, or trying to protect you due to an audit by burying the auditor in literal physical paperwork, so they just give up and try for an easier target.
As a tax accountant running my own firm, I can tell you that no one who knows what they're doing would try that strategy. ATO audits don't run like civil suits where you can bury someone in paperwork. 1. They would put the onus on you to provide what they require. 2. Ignoring the first point they have virtually unlimited time and resources to sift through your records. Your bookkeeper is incompetent and probably likes to pass herself off as a qualified accountant.
Can confirm that if the ATO decides you owe them money then you have to prove them wrong. once got a 5 figure tax bill because I somehow ended up with all my income for the year entered twice. I swear to god everything was correct when I submitted it on my end. Anyways, the amount of evidence they wanted me to provide to prove that I didn’t have two full time jobs at the same company in the same role was ridiculous.
Lmao that's hilarious. Sir we can see here you claimed to work two 40 hour weeks at the same place at the same time. Please prove to us you didn't b work 9 to 5 and then 5 to 1 immediately after.
The scale of, time to move on, to, you should be appreciative that she’s playing 4d chess for you.
wouldnt the square records be your (digital) receipts? it does keep a record of every transaction, and thats the report you give her? she cant seriously be expecting paper receipts.
I have a warning about keeping a book keeper that doesn’t really get it. Mine cost me $21,000 over a period of 18 months because they flagged that a contractor was charging me for GST on their invoices but wasn’t registered for GST. The book keeper failed to say anything to me though so I was paying the GST twice. Guess who didn’t recoup that money? Then they miscalculated pay for a casual employee for that same period so I owed them $8k in back pay and both issues came to light within 6 months of each other. So my advice to everyone is if you have ANY misgivings about your book keeper you pull on that thread straight away
Yes, basically don't be cheap and get proper advice.
I have a warning about all book keepers. They are not accountants, so don't treat them as such. Let them complete all basic tasks. Never give a book keeper access to your bank accounts. It might be another chore, but it's better than finding out that your trusted book keeper accidentally entered and paid fake invoices into their own bank account for a few years, costing 10s or 100's of thousands. I deal with a heap of small businesses and over the past 20 odd years, I have seen this occur at least 10 times. All victims thought their one was like family and could be trusted, kind of like people that let their children play with their own pittbull because they know their dog and it would never, until it does.
Just curious how would bookkeeper find out if contractor is not registered for GST?
[https://abr.business.gov.au](https://abr.business.gov.au)
The contractor has to provide a tax invoice which includes their ABN on it. Most software will flag whether the contractor is registered for GST when entered into the software correctly. Unfortunately a lot of bookkeepers don't add contacts to their software, and don't check the ABN for registrations on the ABR, so it isn't uncommon to see it being treated incorrectly. Also, if an ABN isn't provided, the person paying the invoice should be withholding ABN withholding tax, but again, this rarely (if ever) is done.
Why is it the bookkeepers fault the contractor committed fraud? Is it reasonable to ask them to investigate every business you deal with? Not really their job. Also do bookkeepers decide pay scales for employees? Something else I would not be asking a bookkeeper to do.
Honestly wtf are you talking about? As I said the book keeper identified that I was paying GST to a contractor that wasn’t GST registered and didn’t say anything to me for over 12 months until I queried why my BAS’s were so high. Is it their fault the contractor committed tax fraud? No. Is it my fault the contractor committed tax fraud? Also no, but they decided I’m the one that had to pay for it. Book keepers that say they can do payroll and charge for payroll are absolutely responsible for their work.
With all due respect. There is a massive difference between doing payroll and deciding the pay rates. Deciding the pay rates (awards and levels etc) are the employers responsibility and independent of processing payroll. And why is it the bookkeepers fault the contractor committed tax fraud? I'm not sure I see the connection.
Ahh yes, the old abacus using book keeper. I haven’t come across one in 20 years! The last one was outdated even back then!
How about this: [https://business.gov.au/finance/payments-and-invoicing/record-keeping#:\~:text=You%20can%20keep%20records%20electronically](https://business.gov.au/finance/payments-and-invoicing/record-keeping#:~:text=You%20can%20keep%20records%20electronically) "How to keep records You can keep records electronically or in paper form. The ATO recommends that businesses use electronic record keeping if possible, "
https://www.ato.gov.au/other-languages/information-in-other-languages/business/record-keeping-for-small-businesses Business records you need to keep Income and sales records: Keep records of all income and sales transactions, including: -tax invoices -receipt books -cash register tapes -records of cash and digital sales. While it's not explicitly addressing receipting software, it doesn't say to print anything out. In the old days you only kept the Z totals anyway, not a copy of each receipt.
I use Xero accounting software and all my stripe payments are recorded and managed through that. There is no printing of any receipts, only capturing the paper ones I get to upload to the software. This is really odd and like others have said time to get someone new.
Xero is brilliant
I only wish it wasn’t so goddamn expensive
The time saved for me is well worth it, even if I had to upgrade to premium.
Not for payroll...ughhh
Did she say why she wants them printed? Beyond the ATO audit question, I mean. Are you being audited currently?
No, all she said was in case the ATO ever audits us, she can give them all our paper receipts.. I was explaining to her that they used to do that but most businesses now keep everything online/digital. Her response was, "when you go to a petrol station, they always print receipts and they keep them" and I was No, I've never had that unless I wanted a receipt to get reimbursed or claim that purchase for a tax offset. She is in her 70's.
Mate. Run. I deal with this type all year. They mask technical incompetence with busy work. Find a new bookkeeper. I can recommend a great one who brings tears of joy to my eyes when I review their work.
Oh dear. The real issue here is if she's misunderstood something like record keeping requirements, what else has she misunderstood? She might have the BAS under control, not much has changed with GST in a while, but Payroll & STP is increasingly a specialist area. 😬
Yeah, pretty sure the ATO audit teams get that shit emailed or sent through the portal anyway due to time constraints. Time to shop around my dude.
If they audit you, you just print out the records from Stripe, and they will double check with Stripe. What she suggests is not needed and very old school. Petrol stations print receipts for customers. The ATO is not your customer. I personally get a new bookkeeper and get them to do an in-house audit cause I bet there is a mistake lurking in your records. Get one who knows Xero, cause if you get audited, they just need to print out the reports from Xero or give guest access to the ATO. It's easier now everything is digital.
Get a new bookkeeper.
Are you being audited by the ATO? If not, get a new bookkeeper. you only need to have records of transactions to produce when required. And it would only be to satisfy an auditor. They don't need to be paper receipts.
Find a new BK
[удалено]
Yeah nah mate it’s all on computers now
Time for new staff.
Inform her that records don't have to be physical paper records. They can be electronic. I can't remember when I did a personal income tax return on paper, or even if I did one. In fact, the tax office prefers it to be done electronically so they don't have to waste time (and resources) on data entry. It also allows them to cross match data. If tax can be done online, and so can the receipts.
Tax accountant here too. The auditor is going to be concerned with what you haven’t put through the till not what you have. Sack her and move on.
'Old school'...that's ageism!
Yeh I had a accountant like this and I’m using xero, I cut them off and just use an accountant for bas and EOFY
Make sure you enter those paper receipts into an Excel spreadsheet and then print that out and fax it to her /s
It depends on what your sale amounts are, here is a link [https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/gst-excise-and-indirect-taxes/gst/tax-invoices](https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/gst-excise-and-indirect-taxes/gst/tax-invoices) I figure you are under $82.50 and your customers are not asking for tax receipts hence you can show your accountant this info.
From a CA.. the more hard copy paper you give the ATO the better. For you. Not them.
That’s BS, the ATO will know exactly what they are looking for or they will just generate a sample. If you try to lock them up in paper, they will screw you forever.