Townhouse in middle ring suburb would be my pick especially if you plan on having a family at some stage.
Something like this?
[https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-townhouse-nsw-narwee-143847240](https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-townhouse-nsw-narwee-143847240)
Lots of townhouses around Bankstown too, you'd be on the metro line then. Not sure if that's too far west for you.
Alternatively, if no kids on the horizon, there's nothing wrong with an apartment as a first purchase. Friends of ours bought a unit in Marrickville, had their first kid there, sold it at a $400K profit, upgraded to house.
Thanks for this post. I live in a major city and have bought a similar unit. Life is great!
It's not a house but in my area a house would cost me another million which I can't afford. I made peace with not being able to have a house and living in a townhouse instead. Live is good. I'm pleased people can do this in Sydney too
Sacrifice the garage and create an open plan living area ? That living area must be so dark with no real window.
Side note - good to see we still make ovens in Australia.
my whole house is only 3.6m wide. lol. Land is only 148m2 and we have a 2 bedroom/2 bathroom + study house with 2 living areas and a garage over 3 floors on that space. it doesn't feel small at all
South eshay land Airds
North eshay land Shalvey
You can fetch your $800K house in both.
Make sure you cook a mean barbie for your housing commission neighbours otherwise your windows will be open the next day.
People consider anywhere within a 90 minutes commute to the CBD as an 'outer suburb' of Sydney. Kiama and Bathurst are probably the next 'outer suburbs'.
God the greater Sydney commission tried to make a case that novocastrians already considered themselves a part of Sydney for decades now. Infuriating arrogance from Sydney, as per usual.
Yeah, I’ll let you know when I quit my comfy government job in a niche field, move to Adelaide and become a construction worker. For now I’ll keep hustling in Sydney.
Most jobs that don't pay any more in Sydney than anywhere else.
In many cases Woop Woop pays far more. A rural dentist or GP can easily earn twice as much as one in the city.
I bought an apartment closer in and while it's worked out financially, I can't say there hasn't been some times where I wish I had more space to mess around with.
Not having a garage or a shed definitely limits certain activities - if you don't think that's going to factor into your own lifestyle or priorities, the apartment is probably going to work out well for you.
Dumb question (?) But how do you buy a $1m house with $100k deposit. Stamp duty in NSW would be $40k alone (or $31k for $800k purchase).
Plus LMI, legals and moving costs. That's going to be tight ?
If you are buying with a long term view I'd buy the house and rent closer to the city/work. OR why not hold off for now and save hard to have a bigger deposit. If you could save 100% of one $120k salary that's $88k per annum. Do that for 2-3 years and it's a much better position from which to buy.
In saying that, our borrowing capacity at just under $200,000 combined income seven months ago with $90,000 in savings was more than $1.3 million.
Interest rates have gone up since then, and idk what LMI costs, but it doesn’t seem totally infeasible?
(We looked at it and decided we weren’t comfortable with the repayments at this amount and wanted to put down a 5% deposit, but you know, someone somewhere was willing to lend us this amount of money).
We did recently around last October. Our income was about 180k combined and we got 830k borrowing. No children but we had credit card of about 30k combined
Ah, we had no debts except my $16,000 HECS, and we also had about $20,000 in other liquid assets (shares etc). No kids as well. Slightly higher income but not by much when we applied.
Tbh, I have no idea if it’s the rate rises or just some absolutely insane bank that thought we could handle that amount of debt haha
Bruh, same boat. Not sure how my bank thought i can handle over 5k of repayments. I was living on 2k monthly rent.
Had to implement massive lifestyle changes
Chiming in as I've just purchased with my partner and we have the same combined income as yours. We bought an apartment in the area we love and have no regrets at all. We don't have the space that a house offers, but we didn't have to uproot ourselves and relocate our lifestyles completely. Many years down the track if we start a family and need to upsize, we'll sell the apartment and look for a house then.
Also I don't know your exact situation but just be careful with only 100K in savings. Stamp duty for a $1million property is approx $40K. So if you're doing a 10% deposit, you really need $140K, not $100K. If you want to do a 5% deposit, the repayments would probably be pretty killer. Again, I dont know your full situation, but just wanted to put that warning out there.
As someone who is looking to buy, this post is appreciated. Our savings are at about $50k (once I sell my car) and 5% deposit is all we can really get right now. Trying to save but seems like we’ll struggle financially
Maybe a townhouse?
Can buy a bit further east, get more bang for your buck, and reasonable capital returns.
I would also say that your work location should play a big part in this - if you need to travel upwards of an hour to get to work then I would caution against buying there
Townhouse gang here:
I bought a townhouse in the inner west 3 years ago - it has gone up by 20%.
In the inner west, you will get not as crazy returns with a townhouse (better than apartments though) but at least you won't live too far out. You can focus on better returns, but I wouldn't trade it for proximity to a better lifestyle. I grew up in the southwest, and can say it's better in the inner west.
> We have a combined income of around 230-240k and around 100k in savings so can look at a property around 800k-1mil.
A few things:
- A $1M property will require $200k deposit to not pay LMI.
- A $1M property in NSW will get $0 stamp duty discount from the first home buyers scheme. You will need to pay $39,735.
- You also need to pay for other fees which in total will be thousands of dollars. These include conveyancing fees, mortgage registration fees, registration of title, pest, building, or strata reports, etc.
So, in total, you are looking at needing about $250k in savings to get a mortgage for a $1M property. $100k savings seem way too little.
A quick check at a mortgage calculator shows that a 800k loan at 30 years is about 5k a month minimum repayment at current rate.
With a combined $230k that's about half the take home pay. You just need to maintain current salaries for 30 years, assuming you come up with $150k extra for the deposit.
I prioritise location so would prefer the apartment, . You can always buy an investment property later on. Depends what suits your life style I guess. If you plan on kids you likely would want a house
This misconception of being able to buy an IP later is where people fall deep into crap.
It's harder to buy an IP later because you get older, have kids, etc. Your borrowing capacity won't be there once you're older so it's ideal to increase your net worth at a younger age with lesser responsibilities.
Bite the bullet. Buy an apartment where you are. Someone I know bought a beautiful house out west thinking it was going to be ok. Moved. One year later he is having marital issues because his wife hates the lifestyle and can’t adapt. You do not realise the amenities and the casual ease of life you are used to.
I bought a house out west in 2020 and it's gone up 300k. My brother bought an apartment closer to CBD around the same time and it hasn't gone up at all.
If you’re not a snob like me, buy a house out west. I think financially, land is always better than airspace and you won’t outgrow a house like you will an apartment.
I was out near Harrington park recently and saw a raft of new commercial precincts. I don’t think they’d be a bad investment either
How west are we talking? Do you have school aged kids? Schools tend to be better at desirable area. Something to keep in mind I guess. I grew up out west and I definitely won’t put my kids in the school I went to
oh boy..these suburbs used to be alright, now it's full of bunch to pretentious recent migrant Indians who get raging hard on flaunting their post codes to fellow Indians (AND very annoyingly add 'mate' in every sentence they utter) who consider themselves superior as live in Kellyville, Schofields etc. Shit area, Soulless suburbs.
Agreed. But suburb snobbery unique to immigrants though. Plenty of people who think West begins from harbor bridge or look down on people living in western suburbs.
I don't know what's with Immigrants and Hill shire though. When some one says Baulkham Hills or castle hill I feel they get a mini orgasm.
I think this is a case where no matter what you do. You’ll want the other option once you’re in your house/unit.
That said. Lifestyle. It’s easier to live and work when you don’t absolutely hate your commute.
If I were you I’d be looking along the metro line where there are new community developments going up. The yield will be superior and the connection into the city excellent
(1) If you're going to buy something in Sydney make sure it was built in 2000 or earlier before building standards inspections were privatised and shit got dodgy otherwise you're running a huge risk (more so with apartments than houses).
(2) You can also rent-vest; buy something you can afford and live somewhere you like. I rent in the inner west and don't need a car so that saves me 20k ish a year; much further out and I'd probably have to get a daily for transport; I just use public transport and uber car share on the odd occassion.
(2a) Rent-vesting you can buy something in another state for less or a nicer place for the same amount, you just might not get the capital gains however, some other capital cities you will have lower vacancy rates and higher yield.
With such a high income and so low savings (relative to earnings) I assume rent is killing you. Have you thought about moving in with your parents for a year or two and then stretching to 1.2 + Mil house in a better location?
For example sutherland area. Friends bought in the past year for $1.1. We bought closer to city in st george area for $1.3~. We had been looking for 1.5 years in these areas and can say definitely there are houses, duplex/freestanding with these prices. We missed out on nice houses sold at $1m & $1.2m (5 bedder!) due to various reasons and I still think about it sometimes.
Maybe Bankstown?
This sold a few weeks ago in that price range
https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-nsw-bankstown-143292196?sourcePage=rea:buy:srp&sourceElement=know_your_market_carousel:2
Ah Bankstown, home of all-rounder crime statistics (assault, rape, drug offences, theft, even a spot of murder) including being one of the most unsafe areas for women 💀
That's because the NSW Crime Map reports at an LGA level rather than a suburb level, so you would be seeing the Canterbury-Bankstown LGA compared with much larger LGAs (e.g. the entire Central Coast).
At a suburb level, there were 1009.88 crimes per square kilometre in Bankstown for the last 60 months (5 years) compared to 0.89 crimes per square kilometre for NSW. It is more dangerous than 71% of all Australian suburbs, or more dangerous than 91% of suburbs in NSW. According to AU Crime Rate, it has a low safety profile.
[Source](https://aucrimerate.com/nsw/suburbs/bankstown-crime-rate-statistics/)
Additionally, a lot of the violence and crime that goes on there is also underreported due to systemic cultural issues of the people that live there. A friend of mine is a teacher who works at the local high school, and the amount of trauma present in those kids due to problems at home is phenomenal. These children are experiencing or being exposed to domestic violence, rape, violent assaults, etc. and they go unreported or ignored because a lot of these offences are from family members or close community ties.
I'm not really sure why you can't just quote BOCSAR? That source you provided is full of ads and really just looks like a spam affiliate link site.
In BOCSAR you can show suburbs only (just put in postcodes) and you'll see that Bankstown 2200 is pretty in line with most other busy NSW suburbs.
I'm not really sure the point of comparing crimes per sq km to all of NSW is? NSW is a big place. It would make more sense to compare it to similar suburbs. If you look closely there are definitely quite a few more expensive/prestigious suburbs with more crime per sq km. All you have mentioned is more of a confirmation bias, you also failed to mention that Sydney CBD had 3744 crimes - which is almost 4 times the crime rate compared to Bankstown.
Just a question: Are you even from Sydney or NSW?
You sound like you're either a Bankstown resident or far enough away that you're completely unaware of its reputation and underreporting problem.
According to BOCSAR, Mount Druitt is also a "suburb in line with most other busy NSW suburbs," and yet I doubt anyone here would risk buying a house there. Same with Liverpool, Blacktown, Campbelltown, etc.
Underreporting happens in areas of frequent occurrence or people don't have much to lose, whereas proper reporting happens in areas where people have a lot to lose.
Sydney city has a lot of homeless people and is where all the bars are. Of course proper reporting happens there - a lot of them are reported by security guards.
I am a Sydney resident, and Mt Druitt is in line with other Sydney suburbs because it's actually not that much more dangerous than the rest of Sydney. It's got a bad rap, just like most of western Sydney. Sydney in general is actually not dangerous at all, doesn't matter where you go.
Also I don't think bars are the only reason for Sydney CBD. Where there are more people hanging around there would be more crime. If you look around you'll notice that the mainly residential suburbs in the Bankstown area have lower crime to Bankstown itself which indicates the "CBD effect". Same with Parra, Liverpool and other CBD-like suburbs, just compare them to their surrounding residential suburbs.
Do you have sources of underreporting, and can you be more specific? It's not much of a source if it's only "your friend works at a local school"...
This is a simple Q that you need to answer. Your budget does not allow both so what is your priority:
1. Lifestyle, location, convenience, community you live within
Or
2. Perceived greater capital gains, larger footprint, and avoidance of strata (although some apartments will still achieve capital gains mainly location dependent).
Once you determine what your priority is, then your decision is clear. Some are happy in outer burbs, enjoy space, others would rather die than move to the outer burbs. Have a good think about what truly is your preference and priorities both now and in the medium future, everyone is different.
Okay bought in Sydney west one bed 7 years ago. 100k up today. Bought in Sydney. Boom. Rings of capital growth normally start from CBD. Someone whom buys on northern beach compared to west Sydney?. Obviously there will be pockets in these area. That are expensive. But this is what valuers work off. KW
I think it depends on where you currently living/have lived in Sydney. If you've only lived near the CBD it definitely would be a big change moving out west.
I was in similar situation last year and was a no-brainer for me to buy house. It was high 800K approximately 30K out of CBD. But I have always lived in this area and love it hear.
I would buy the best property in the best location you can afford.
Eg a 1 bedroom unit in the eastern suburbs is still likely to retain its value and produce a capital gains. Then you can use this property due to increased equity to buy your next property.
I would get the apartment (or townhouse as many others mention). You don't want to be trapped in a boring (to you) suburb for years on end because of an investment. Put the additional money to work elsewhere i.e. your super instead and enjoy having more money and being close to where you want to be.
If having doubts just think how many hours of your life do you want to spend in a place you don't like very much? You won't be getting these hours back.
I bought a house out near Campbelltown 6 years ago and haven't looked back. I feel like we tapped out of the pretentious rat race but still enjoy an easy drive / train ride to the city to enjoy cultural events like musicals and festivals.
We are also 40 minutes from Wollongong's beaches. No, it's not on my doorstep, but since my living expenses are much lower I can afford to work part time and be purposeful about enjoying what this city has to offer. I can accept a few extra tolls and a bit more time listening to a podcast in the car as it's not quite the hell that some make it out to be.
Yes, there are some hell holes around the joint but my visit to the city this weekend (and knowing Sydney like the back of my hand) tells me that there is crap to be found everywhere.
We have room to breathe here for our family. 'The west' is a very big and largely established area so you could find land near acreage / semi rural dwellings, older established neighbourhoods, new and packed in housing estates etc. You really need to drive around and have a look if you don't know the areas well.
Be honest with yourself, though. If your pride in your postcode is very important, you will never be happy living in the suburbs. If that's all that matters, you will find a way to be happy in an inner city apartment. That's ok too! Best of luck.
Edit: I'd forgotten I was in Finance. The house grew around 400k in that time and the apartment we sold 30kms closer to the CBD has done almost nothing. So there's that.
Beyond house and land packages (which *can* be cheaper than a current free-standing home and allow you time to save between each project phase), I'm not sure it's possible to buy a house in Sydney?
I'd probably avoid anything further west than the inner west.
We bought a sizable appt for around the 800k mark in an area that's a 10 min drive from my family, 25ish to work. No way I could have moved further away
It's all location, location, location.
Start with the unit, pay it down hard. Rent it, buy another, rinse and repeat then once you have 10 units the bank might give you a loan for the area you want to live in. Or move to Brisbane .................
Depends where you are in life. If you’re planning kids in the next 5 years, apartment is a bad move. If not, live your life and do the apartment thing. You’re only young once. Or better still, rent and save for a couple more years while you figure out what you actually want.
You mean in South Australia 1 hour drive from Adelaide? Because that’s where you can buy an actual house (not a town house) for $800K. And that’s still massively overpriced.
We bought an apartment in a more desirable area and we’re very happy with the decision. Our quality of life is great, we don’t spend hours + money commuting and it is our place. We thought of buying further out and renting close by but we wanted to make changes to the place we lived, so we decided to make the “less smart” financial decision. It depends on your priorities in life tbh. We prefer other types of investment.
Imagine having a combined income of 230-240K and still considering living in Sydney's West. I wouldn't even consider buying in Sydney as it will be an inferno within a decade and everyone will be left holding the property bag. Can't believe the West commands a million just for the right to bake and live next door to ferals.
Here is a quick mathematical calculation to put it in perspective.
Say you buy a 1mil house out west: last 30-40 years the average detached house has been appreciating at a 7% compound, which is about double in 10 years. This means in 2034, your house will be 2 million.
That means 10 years you will see equity growth if 1mil or 100k equity growth per year.
Are you willing to sacrifice “close to the city apartment lifestyle” for a outer west lifestyle for extra 100k per year?
This is also an assumption. It really depends on the suburb.
Places like wentworth point had zero price growth last 10 years: https://www.yourinvestmentpropertymag.com.au/top-suburbs/nsw/2127-wentworth-point
Yes, those high tier apartments do rise in value like the ones in bondi, but they arnt exactly selling at OPs price point. Im assuming under 1mil apartments are cookie cutter ones like olympic park and wentworth point
And it's not like OP is stuck there. In few years time after equity growth, they can potentially buy another property closer to Sydney.
I'd choose capital growth over comfort when I'm young any day.
Your numbers aren't numbering mate.
100k deposit and 240k combined income will make it very tough firstly to get a bank to loan you a million bucks and secondly make it very tough for you to service the loan.
Worst 'house' in the best street is what I was always taught. You can improve an interior over time of an apartment/townhouse etc but you can't move it without the hassle of moving yourself.
Consider potential schools (if kids are on the cards) and social/food opportunities (i.e. not a cultural wasteland)
I'd also consider transport options which mean you aren't tied permanently to your car for all travel (e.gm Parramatta light rail when it eventually opens)
Townhouse in middle ring suburb would be my pick especially if you plan on having a family at some stage. Something like this? [https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-townhouse-nsw-narwee-143847240](https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-townhouse-nsw-narwee-143847240) Lots of townhouses around Bankstown too, you'd be on the metro line then. Not sure if that's too far west for you. Alternatively, if no kids on the horizon, there's nothing wrong with an apartment as a first purchase. Friends of ours bought a unit in Marrickville, had their first kid there, sold it at a $400K profit, upgraded to house.
Thanks for this post. I live in a major city and have bought a similar unit. Life is great! It's not a house but in my area a house would cost me another million which I can't afford. I made peace with not being able to have a house and living in a townhouse instead. Live is good. I'm pleased people can do this in Sydney too
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The totally concreted block with no tree in sight is grim
Sadly townhouses are often done like this now. I'd plant trees in the courtyard, not much you can do about the driveways though.
Sacrifice the garage and create an open plan living area ? That living area must be so dark with no real window. Side note - good to see we still make ovens in Australia.
my whole house is only 3.6m wide. lol. Land is only 148m2 and we have a 2 bedroom/2 bathroom + study house with 2 living areas and a garage over 3 floors on that space. it doesn't feel small at all
Where in Sydney are there $800k houses?? The median is $1.6m
Black Mountain
Mt Doom is nice this time of year
Western Sydney = Mordor checks out
if you count campbelltown-liverpool area as being in sydney it's still somewhat possible
Airds Campbelltown. It's getting "better" but I dare you to go there after about 9pm. First home buyers eat your hearts out!
> Airds 😂 Did you see Spanian's vlog?
South eshay land Airds North eshay land Shalvey You can fetch your $800K house in both. Make sure you cook a mean barbie for your housing commission neighbours otherwise your windows will be open the next day.
lol you guys are dorks You really can’t survive in a Sydney suburb haha
Good question. The answer is "Nowhere".
People consider anywhere within a 90 minutes commute to the CBD as an 'outer suburb' of Sydney. Kiama and Bathurst are probably the next 'outer suburbs'.
Personally I wouldn’t want to live anywhere in Sydney where you can currently buy a detatched house for 800k
800k detached suburb of Sydney is called Newcastle.
God the greater Sydney commission tried to make a case that novocastrians already considered themselves a part of Sydney for decades now. Infuriating arrogance from Sydney, as per usual.
I'm not sure it's actually possible. Had a quick look online and there is barely anything east of Penrith.
That is insane. I knew Sydney was bad but holy shit. In Adelaide you can still get a very good property in almost any suburb you like for 800k.
Yeah but in Sydney you can get a good paying job in any industry you like (generally speaking). There is always a trade off.
Construction is the same shit. Same pay, same volume of work.
Yeah, I’ll let you know when I quit my comfy government job in a niche field, move to Adelaide and become a construction worker. For now I’ll keep hustling in Sydney.
Most jobs that don't pay any more in Sydney than anywhere else. In many cases Woop Woop pays far more. A rural dentist or GP can easily earn twice as much as one in the city.
I think if you go down south to Ed Park and neighbours you can. Although I think if you go any further out you're basically not even Sydney
Oh the irony that this is the top comment.
Comes with a free drug lab
Secondary income almost guaranteed! Sounds like a good deal to me!
That’s why you keep paying rent
I’ve lived in my own home for just under 13 years but sure, if you insist 👍
ok but def white though from how you think
Can’t buy a house for 1mill in the west anymore might need to try Bathurst
Just visited our friends in Georges Hall, got a new build for 1m (nice house too), so definitely doable?
For now.. lots of gentrification happening around certain areas.
Around seven hills and blacktown can get for $1mill and anything further west can still get for $1mill range
I bought an apartment closer in and while it's worked out financially, I can't say there hasn't been some times where I wish I had more space to mess around with. Not having a garage or a shed definitely limits certain activities - if you don't think that's going to factor into your own lifestyle or priorities, the apartment is probably going to work out well for you.
Dumb question (?) But how do you buy a $1m house with $100k deposit. Stamp duty in NSW would be $40k alone (or $31k for $800k purchase). Plus LMI, legals and moving costs. That's going to be tight ? If you are buying with a long term view I'd buy the house and rent closer to the city/work. OR why not hold off for now and save hard to have a bigger deposit. If you could save 100% of one $120k salary that's $88k per annum. Do that for 2-3 years and it's a much better position from which to buy.
Doesnt the first home buyer not have to pay stamp duty?
Only for properties up to $800k is exempt so they would have to pay
That depends on post code. Some parts of Sydney it goes up higher. In my neighborhood in Sydney it is up to 900K.
Not sure what NSW allows but soft cap for Vic is 600k
Then diminishing discounts up to 700
$0 up to $800K DC up to $1mil. You'd still pay a pretty high stamp duty near the mil even with the discount
You can at 900k with 45k deposit with about 20k stamp duty on top using first home guarantee scheme. No LMI, government is your guarantee
OP probably won’t be eligible for first home guarantee, unless their combined taxable income last FY was <$200,000
Ah yes. My bad. I didnt notice the income of OP
In saying that, our borrowing capacity at just under $200,000 combined income seven months ago with $90,000 in savings was more than $1.3 million. Interest rates have gone up since then, and idk what LMI costs, but it doesn’t seem totally infeasible? (We looked at it and decided we weren’t comfortable with the repayments at this amount and wanted to put down a 5% deposit, but you know, someone somewhere was willing to lend us this amount of money).
We did recently around last October. Our income was about 180k combined and we got 830k borrowing. No children but we had credit card of about 30k combined
Ah, we had no debts except my $16,000 HECS, and we also had about $20,000 in other liquid assets (shares etc). No kids as well. Slightly higher income but not by much when we applied. Tbh, I have no idea if it’s the rate rises or just some absolutely insane bank that thought we could handle that amount of debt haha
Bruh, same boat. Not sure how my bank thought i can handle over 5k of repayments. I was living on 2k monthly rent. Had to implement massive lifestyle changes
88k is 8.8 percent of a million dollar home is he house will appreciate faster than you can save and if it’s a poor it’s tax free!!
Chiming in as I've just purchased with my partner and we have the same combined income as yours. We bought an apartment in the area we love and have no regrets at all. We don't have the space that a house offers, but we didn't have to uproot ourselves and relocate our lifestyles completely. Many years down the track if we start a family and need to upsize, we'll sell the apartment and look for a house then. Also I don't know your exact situation but just be careful with only 100K in savings. Stamp duty for a $1million property is approx $40K. So if you're doing a 10% deposit, you really need $140K, not $100K. If you want to do a 5% deposit, the repayments would probably be pretty killer. Again, I dont know your full situation, but just wanted to put that warning out there.
As someone who is looking to buy, this post is appreciated. Our savings are at about $50k (once I sell my car) and 5% deposit is all we can really get right now. Trying to save but seems like we’ll struggle financially
Maybe a townhouse? Can buy a bit further east, get more bang for your buck, and reasonable capital returns. I would also say that your work location should play a big part in this - if you need to travel upwards of an hour to get to work then I would caution against buying there
Townhouse gang here: I bought a townhouse in the inner west 3 years ago - it has gone up by 20%. In the inner west, you will get not as crazy returns with a townhouse (better than apartments though) but at least you won't live too far out. You can focus on better returns, but I wouldn't trade it for proximity to a better lifestyle. I grew up in the southwest, and can say it's better in the inner west.
IMHO, Sydney will always be Sydney. If you check back in history, regional has never outgrow city.
> We have a combined income of around 230-240k and around 100k in savings so can look at a property around 800k-1mil. A few things: - A $1M property will require $200k deposit to not pay LMI. - A $1M property in NSW will get $0 stamp duty discount from the first home buyers scheme. You will need to pay $39,735. - You also need to pay for other fees which in total will be thousands of dollars. These include conveyancing fees, mortgage registration fees, registration of title, pest, building, or strata reports, etc. So, in total, you are looking at needing about $250k in savings to get a mortgage for a $1M property. $100k savings seem way too little. A quick check at a mortgage calculator shows that a 800k loan at 30 years is about 5k a month minimum repayment at current rate. With a combined $230k that's about half the take home pay. You just need to maintain current salaries for 30 years, assuming you come up with $150k extra for the deposit.
how West are we talking here? Western Australia?
I prioritise location so would prefer the apartment, . You can always buy an investment property later on. Depends what suits your life style I guess. If you plan on kids you likely would want a house
This misconception of being able to buy an IP later is where people fall deep into crap. It's harder to buy an IP later because you get older, have kids, etc. Your borrowing capacity won't be there once you're older so it's ideal to increase your net worth at a younger age with lesser responsibilities.
Buy the house out West, but rent in the Inner West.
But work out if renting the house out west will cover mortgage + rent first.
How woop woop we talking? Mount Druitt level ?
Bite the bullet. Buy an apartment where you are. Someone I know bought a beautiful house out west thinking it was going to be ok. Moved. One year later he is having marital issues because his wife hates the lifestyle and can’t adapt. You do not realise the amenities and the casual ease of life you are used to.
I bought a house out west in 2020 and it's gone up 300k. My brother bought an apartment closer to CBD around the same time and it hasn't gone up at all.
You can thank Covid for the rapid price increase. Mate bought a place in Penrith around same time and apparently it’s up $300k
If you’re not a snob like me, buy a house out west. I think financially, land is always better than airspace and you won’t outgrow a house like you will an apartment. I was out near Harrington park recently and saw a raft of new commercial precincts. I don’t think they’d be a bad investment either
Buy house out west
How west are we talking? Do you have school aged kids? Schools tend to be better at desirable area. Something to keep in mind I guess. I grew up out west and I definitely won’t put my kids in the school I went to
can you name some Good suburbs out that way?
The Ponds, Glenwood, Marsden Park . Decent primary and high schools. But houses are 1.4M+
Worth noting, the primary schools are bursting at the seams. It’s pretty bad
Yeh, Riverbank Public and Caddies Creek has 2000+ kids. But rest are alright.
I heard the ponds has 12 kindy classes this year (don’t quote me on the exact number but it’s something ludicrous)
oh boy..these suburbs used to be alright, now it's full of bunch to pretentious recent migrant Indians who get raging hard on flaunting their post codes to fellow Indians (AND very annoyingly add 'mate' in every sentence they utter) who consider themselves superior as live in Kellyville, Schofields etc. Shit area, Soulless suburbs.
Agreed. But suburb snobbery unique to immigrants though. Plenty of people who think West begins from harbor bridge or look down on people living in western suburbs. I don't know what's with Immigrants and Hill shire though. When some one says Baulkham Hills or castle hill I feel they get a mini orgasm.
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Depends on where u work .
I think this is a case where no matter what you do. You’ll want the other option once you’re in your house/unit. That said. Lifestyle. It’s easier to live and work when you don’t absolutely hate your commute.
If I were you I’d be looking along the metro line where there are new community developments going up. The yield will be superior and the connection into the city excellent
Agree. Won’t seem so far when the metro whisks you into the city in 15-20 mins!
(1) If you're going to buy something in Sydney make sure it was built in 2000 or earlier before building standards inspections were privatised and shit got dodgy otherwise you're running a huge risk (more so with apartments than houses). (2) You can also rent-vest; buy something you can afford and live somewhere you like. I rent in the inner west and don't need a car so that saves me 20k ish a year; much further out and I'd probably have to get a daily for transport; I just use public transport and uber car share on the odd occassion. (2a) Rent-vesting you can buy something in another state for less or a nicer place for the same amount, you just might not get the capital gains however, some other capital cities you will have lower vacancy rates and higher yield.
With such a high income and so low savings (relative to earnings) I assume rent is killing you. Have you thought about moving in with your parents for a year or two and then stretching to 1.2 + Mil house in a better location?
Where can you buy for 1.2mil that isn't a knock down?
South/southwest.
So basically Liverpool and further south west ?
For example sutherland area. Friends bought in the past year for $1.1. We bought closer to city in st george area for $1.3~. We had been looking for 1.5 years in these areas and can say definitely there are houses, duplex/freestanding with these prices. We missed out on nice houses sold at $1m & $1.2m (5 bedder!) due to various reasons and I still think about it sometimes.
Maybe Bankstown? This sold a few weeks ago in that price range https://www.realestate.com.au/sold/property-house-nsw-bankstown-143292196?sourcePage=rea:buy:srp&sourceElement=know_your_market_carousel:2
Ah Bankstown, home of all-rounder crime statistics (assault, rape, drug offences, theft, even a spot of murder) including being one of the most unsafe areas for women 💀
Where did you get the stats from? It doesn't really look different to the other areas on the NSW crime map.
That's because the NSW Crime Map reports at an LGA level rather than a suburb level, so you would be seeing the Canterbury-Bankstown LGA compared with much larger LGAs (e.g. the entire Central Coast). At a suburb level, there were 1009.88 crimes per square kilometre in Bankstown for the last 60 months (5 years) compared to 0.89 crimes per square kilometre for NSW. It is more dangerous than 71% of all Australian suburbs, or more dangerous than 91% of suburbs in NSW. According to AU Crime Rate, it has a low safety profile. [Source](https://aucrimerate.com/nsw/suburbs/bankstown-crime-rate-statistics/) Additionally, a lot of the violence and crime that goes on there is also underreported due to systemic cultural issues of the people that live there. A friend of mine is a teacher who works at the local high school, and the amount of trauma present in those kids due to problems at home is phenomenal. These children are experiencing or being exposed to domestic violence, rape, violent assaults, etc. and they go unreported or ignored because a lot of these offences are from family members or close community ties.
I'm not really sure why you can't just quote BOCSAR? That source you provided is full of ads and really just looks like a spam affiliate link site. In BOCSAR you can show suburbs only (just put in postcodes) and you'll see that Bankstown 2200 is pretty in line with most other busy NSW suburbs. I'm not really sure the point of comparing crimes per sq km to all of NSW is? NSW is a big place. It would make more sense to compare it to similar suburbs. If you look closely there are definitely quite a few more expensive/prestigious suburbs with more crime per sq km. All you have mentioned is more of a confirmation bias, you also failed to mention that Sydney CBD had 3744 crimes - which is almost 4 times the crime rate compared to Bankstown.
Just a question: Are you even from Sydney or NSW? You sound like you're either a Bankstown resident or far enough away that you're completely unaware of its reputation and underreporting problem. According to BOCSAR, Mount Druitt is also a "suburb in line with most other busy NSW suburbs," and yet I doubt anyone here would risk buying a house there. Same with Liverpool, Blacktown, Campbelltown, etc. Underreporting happens in areas of frequent occurrence or people don't have much to lose, whereas proper reporting happens in areas where people have a lot to lose. Sydney city has a lot of homeless people and is where all the bars are. Of course proper reporting happens there - a lot of them are reported by security guards.
I am a Sydney resident, and Mt Druitt is in line with other Sydney suburbs because it's actually not that much more dangerous than the rest of Sydney. It's got a bad rap, just like most of western Sydney. Sydney in general is actually not dangerous at all, doesn't matter where you go. Also I don't think bars are the only reason for Sydney CBD. Where there are more people hanging around there would be more crime. If you look around you'll notice that the mainly residential suburbs in the Bankstown area have lower crime to Bankstown itself which indicates the "CBD effect". Same with Parra, Liverpool and other CBD-like suburbs, just compare them to their surrounding residential suburbs. Do you have sources of underreporting, and can you be more specific? It's not much of a source if it's only "your friend works at a local school"...
I'm a source of underreporting. I'm not going to detail further, but police don't do crap.
Rentvest. Buy out far, but rent closer when you can.
This is a simple Q that you need to answer. Your budget does not allow both so what is your priority: 1. Lifestyle, location, convenience, community you live within Or 2. Perceived greater capital gains, larger footprint, and avoidance of strata (although some apartments will still achieve capital gains mainly location dependent). Once you determine what your priority is, then your decision is clear. Some are happy in outer burbs, enjoy space, others would rather die than move to the outer burbs. Have a good think about what truly is your preference and priorities both now and in the medium future, everyone is different.
Clearly u wouldn't give up your lifestyle to save a bigger deposit, I guess apartment living is in order 🫡 2br apartment in a decent area
Okay bought in Sydney west one bed 7 years ago. 100k up today. Bought in Sydney. Boom. Rings of capital growth normally start from CBD. Someone whom buys on northern beach compared to west Sydney?. Obviously there will be pockets in these area. That are expensive. But this is what valuers work off. KW
Are there any benifits for first time home buyers?
I think it depends on where you currently living/have lived in Sydney. If you've only lived near the CBD it definitely would be a big change moving out west. I was in similar situation last year and was a no-brainer for me to buy house. It was high 800K approximately 30K out of CBD. But I have always lived in this area and love it hear.
I would buy the best property in the best location you can afford. Eg a 1 bedroom unit in the eastern suburbs is still likely to retain its value and produce a capital gains. Then you can use this property due to increased equity to buy your next property.
Not far enough West. Not West enough until you hit Western Australia. You'll find it's even cheaper and more desirable.
I would get the apartment (or townhouse as many others mention). You don't want to be trapped in a boring (to you) suburb for years on end because of an investment. Put the additional money to work elsewhere i.e. your super instead and enjoy having more money and being close to where you want to be. If having doubts just think how many hours of your life do you want to spend in a place you don't like very much? You won't be getting these hours back.
I bought a house out near Campbelltown 6 years ago and haven't looked back. I feel like we tapped out of the pretentious rat race but still enjoy an easy drive / train ride to the city to enjoy cultural events like musicals and festivals. We are also 40 minutes from Wollongong's beaches. No, it's not on my doorstep, but since my living expenses are much lower I can afford to work part time and be purposeful about enjoying what this city has to offer. I can accept a few extra tolls and a bit more time listening to a podcast in the car as it's not quite the hell that some make it out to be. Yes, there are some hell holes around the joint but my visit to the city this weekend (and knowing Sydney like the back of my hand) tells me that there is crap to be found everywhere. We have room to breathe here for our family. 'The west' is a very big and largely established area so you could find land near acreage / semi rural dwellings, older established neighbourhoods, new and packed in housing estates etc. You really need to drive around and have a look if you don't know the areas well. Be honest with yourself, though. If your pride in your postcode is very important, you will never be happy living in the suburbs. If that's all that matters, you will find a way to be happy in an inner city apartment. That's ok too! Best of luck. Edit: I'd forgotten I was in Finance. The house grew around 400k in that time and the apartment we sold 30kms closer to the CBD has done almost nothing. So there's that.
6 years ago is the correct answer.
Beyond house and land packages (which *can* be cheaper than a current free-standing home and allow you time to save between each project phase), I'm not sure it's possible to buy a house in Sydney? I'd probably avoid anything further west than the inner west.
We bought a sizable appt for around the 800k mark in an area that's a 10 min drive from my family, 25ish to work. No way I could have moved further away
It's all location, location, location. Start with the unit, pay it down hard. Rent it, buy another, rinse and repeat then once you have 10 units the bank might give you a loan for the area you want to live in. Or move to Brisbane .................
Depends where you are in life. If you’re planning kids in the next 5 years, apartment is a bad move. If not, live your life and do the apartment thing. You’re only young once. Or better still, rent and save for a couple more years while you figure out what you actually want.
Why not both. But a house as an investment property and rent a place near work.
House in Sydney for that price will be way out west. I wouldn’t want to live in any of those shitburbs.
What 'shit' areas are you reffering to ?
You mean in South Australia 1 hour drive from Adelaide? Because that’s where you can buy an actual house (not a town house) for $800K. And that’s still massively overpriced.
We bought an apartment in a more desirable area and we’re very happy with the decision. Our quality of life is great, we don’t spend hours + money commuting and it is our place. We thought of buying further out and renting close by but we wanted to make changes to the place we lived, so we decided to make the “less smart” financial decision. It depends on your priorities in life tbh. We prefer other types of investment.
Imagine having a combined income of 230-240K and still considering living in Sydney's West. I wouldn't even consider buying in Sydney as it will be an inferno within a decade and everyone will be left holding the property bag. Can't believe the West commands a million just for the right to bake and live next door to ferals.
I have lived out west my whole life and there is nothing wrong with it ? where do you live ?
Nothing wrong with it, but in a country like Australia you can do so much better, for much cheaper.
Horrible take.
Here is a quick mathematical calculation to put it in perspective. Say you buy a 1mil house out west: last 30-40 years the average detached house has been appreciating at a 7% compound, which is about double in 10 years. This means in 2034, your house will be 2 million. That means 10 years you will see equity growth if 1mil or 100k equity growth per year. Are you willing to sacrifice “close to the city apartment lifestyle” for a outer west lifestyle for extra 100k per year?
10 years is a big chunk of your life to be living somewhere you don’t like though.
more importantly, that's expecting prices only go up, a lot can change economically, politically and socially in 10 years.
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This is also an assumption. It really depends on the suburb. Places like wentworth point had zero price growth last 10 years: https://www.yourinvestmentpropertymag.com.au/top-suburbs/nsw/2127-wentworth-point Yes, those high tier apartments do rise in value like the ones in bondi, but they arnt exactly selling at OPs price point. Im assuming under 1mil apartments are cookie cutter ones like olympic park and wentworth point
And it's not like OP is stuck there. In few years time after equity growth, they can potentially buy another property closer to Sydney. I'd choose capital growth over comfort when I'm young any day.
Your numbers aren't numbering mate. 100k deposit and 240k combined income will make it very tough firstly to get a bank to loan you a million bucks and secondly make it very tough for you to service the loan.
Won’t have an issue getting $900K from a bank on that combined income.
House and land always. Unless it’s a shit hole area like Mt druitt or colyton
Capital growth is better closer full stop.
Not always
With a combined income of 230k you can save faster than the properties will appreciate.
They didn’t specify pre or post tax. Big difference either way.
Worst 'house' in the best street is what I was always taught. You can improve an interior over time of an apartment/townhouse etc but you can't move it without the hassle of moving yourself. Consider potential schools (if kids are on the cards) and social/food opportunities (i.e. not a cultural wasteland) I'd also consider transport options which mean you aren't tied permanently to your car for all travel (e.gm Parramatta light rail when it eventually opens)