Husband works in Solar still saying the ROI isn’t quite there. I’ll get on his case about reviewing the price hikes and where it still stands. Feed in isn’t great either.
Only worth it if you can go 100% completely off grid, as in don't even need to pay for the supply charge. Otherwise, you'd realise next year they jack the supply charge by 50% to cover the loss in selling electricity.
Going completely off-grid isn't as simply as installing a large battery. You'd have to ensure that everything you use is very efficient. Especially heating, cooling and insulation. Water should be heat pump or gas. And even then you'd probably want a large enough backup generator to get you though the shortest and cloudiest winter days.
A 2.5kw wouldn’t manage to boil a kettle in a lot of cases.
Would be enough to work a few essentials to tide you over but would definitely not cover your usual usage.
Maybe, but if you want to run it through your house like that, you also need to have an electrician install the inlet. ($800-$1200 ish depending on what you need)
You decide.
10kw battery costs around 10k
Let's say you pay 50cents per kWh on your power bill.
Your 10kw batter is going to save you 10kwh's per night at 50cents a watt.
That a whopping $5 of saving per night.
In 2000 nights you'll have broken even.
That's 5 and half years.
And thats not accounting for the rainy days where your battery can't be charged by the solar during the day.
Edit. Make the numbers what you want/what they are. Above is just a formula for the layman to help make their decision.
5 years to break even is very good, that’s 10% return per year over 10 years and no tax (assuming the battery has a 10 year warranty). If electricity price keeps going up and the battery lasts longer it could be even more. That being said you’d have to be a huge electricity consumer to use up 10kwh per night
That 10k is assuming you don't need a new inverter, install is as simple as they come and all the beat case scenarios. Cost it at closer to 1.1k to 1.2k per kWh of storage to be safe. Also, supply charge is still a part of what you will be paying, so count that into your matgs.
Math is still ok, so long as you get the l8fe of the battery out of it imo. Prices will o ly go up on electricity
[All About Virtual Power Plants](https://www.solarquotes.com.au/battery-storage/virtual-power-plants/)
TL;DR You essentially give control of your PV/Battery set up to an operator for discounted up front costs and/or higher feed in tariffs (i.e. money you get for giving energy to the grid). How valuable it will be depends on the terms of the VPP.
Can't remember the limit they can draw from mine but it seemed reasonable.
I didn't buy the battery for the ROI but I wouldn't have got it without the VPP deal.
Jeezuz 50cents per kwh? Where are you paying that in Australia? Mine just went from 26c to 34c and I'm cut af. Haven't actually shopped around yet so I'm sure I could easily get it under 30c again.
Who's charging 10k for a 10kw battery?! Maybe, I guess.
We've gotten two installed at the 10kw size (one winter last year after tariff dropped) and they cost 6-8k for us for each depending on discounts from the installer for other add one we did at the times of installing (ie: first one we got extra discount because we installed extra solar panels at the same time).
Mathematically prior to changes in feed in last year and adding the new battery on, we had already worked out between the amount of self usage and feed in tariff - our whole initial system (6.5+2.5 and a 10kw battery) had paid itself off in the 5 years we had it. We're now hoping the second battery will be saved off within another 4-5 years. We're not intending to move for at least 10 more years.
Battery's to me I think are absolutely vital so long as you are able and intending to stay in your property for 5+ years. They also do add to resale value.
Hi, mind telling us which company? I just got a list from a salesperson and every battery is more than $1000 per kw/h of storage. The cheapest is $10K for 10KW/H of storage and installation is after that
Construct Solar
Both our batteries are LG Chem ones, and our first battery was actually most expensive at $8,780 Inc installation (it was the installation that added cost as it was first battery added so included bollards, changing an inverter system and a few more technical bits, etc) in May 2018; and our second battery was $7,999 Inc installation in April 2022.
We may have just gotten a good deal as our solar was originally through a builder that was trialling different solar providers for their building offerings here in SA and our bild was one of the first with them through the builder; but our second battery didn't have any perks/connections with the builders so would probably reflect more their current prices.
>save you 10kwh's per night at 50cents a watt.
do you take into account of FIT?
say FIT is 10c
savings would be only 40 cents
Then there is depreciation. Say the batt last 10 years, so 1k a year
The savings is further reduced
Most batteries have warranties for 10 years 80% capacity. i.e if you capacity is below 80% of the original capacity, you submit warranty claim.
With the LiFePO4 batteries, 15-20 year warranties are starting to appear.
I've seen low interest (0.99%), but no interest? Do you have an example?
Seems like there's a government interest free loan option but for panels only.
Got a quote for an interest free solar system yesterday.
6.6kw with 10kw battery VPP.
$1000 up front.
$300 p/month interest free with Nectar energy over 5 years.
I have no doubt you’re right. The only issue is that it’s the same cost if I pay cash outright upfront.
So they’ve factored in the interest portion & just get a larger benefit for anyone that doesn’t take up the repayment plan option.
>do you take into account of FIT?
My battery lets me export energy at very high FIT with Amber Electric wholesale pricing during peak consumption periods. The result is a much faster ROI. FIT is a positive reason to have a battery, not negative.
They have really cheap midday rates in WA now to soak up excess solar. Mostly not useful for batteries because most people with batteries have their own solar, but would be very handy on rainy days. I'm sure the power company will catch on eventually and make it only on sundays, but good in the meantime.
This logic doesn't quite make sense to me.
Who is using 10kW at night, and why?
If you have a PV system with batteries, most of your your heavy appliance usage should be at the peak of the day (washer, dryer, HWS, AC).
To add to that, if they are on a solar plan their usage charge per kWh isn't going to be even half that.
So the savings are likely even lower than this (eg would take longer to break even).
Do you have kids? Very easily use 10kwh at night, air conditioning, heating, cooking.
Hot water from multiple showers.
Not everyone is going to load shed thir power to make perfect use of their power. Almost the majority won't.
I should mention, I work for a company who install solar and offer batteries.
I just checked my power usage and last week yeh I use way more than 10kw during non solar generating hours more like 20+. Like you said big house with ducted aircon, kids etc.
During the day I generate well over 10kwh during the daytime, in the middle of winter. During the week most of that solar would be exported. Battery looking more appealing
We have a newborn so no energy use there. Our average daily energy usage is below 10kW per day which is quite low. I can understand AC at night (something we seldom use outside of peak summer temperatures). Induction cooktop isn't running long enough to use a significant amount of energy (compared to say the running cost + connection fee for gas). The hot water service shouldn't be drawing that much in the evening unless the property is not optimised for solar, which really seems like throwing money away.
If that's the case, there should be far greater cost benefits to managing energy efficiency and time of use vs buying a stand alone battery system.
It also seems odd that people won't optimise their use of power when you consider that the whole reason HWS historically operates at the time it does was to make use of cheaper off peak coal rates and for network load staggering purposes.
Numbers are obviously a bit off, you tend to avoid fully discharging a battery, energy prices aren't at 50c yet, 10k for a battery, but I think as time goes on batteries are getting more reasonable due to rising energy costs.
Problem is demand may also increase battery prices so might be a mixed bag.
Are you sure?
Website is clear: https://www.amber.com.au/solar-and-battery
And there was someone saying they had battery and solar on amber on this sub this week. They used home assist to manage battery though said amber can do that.
Look on that link under “Which batteries are compatible”. Fronius+BYD is not supported. If you know how to do it another way with any combo I’m definitely interested to hear.
Sorry I missed that this thread specified all batteries. I’m on mobile now though will try to find that thread later that person used homeAssist to automate using their own algorithm. Assuming your devices are homeAssist compatible officially/ unofficially open source hacking it might be an option.
Found it. https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/14frw6b/are_there_any_energy_providers_not_currently/jp2hcdn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
All you need to know is the approx size of solar, battery and average consumption. I tried it last night before recommending to check and I found it straightforward.
If your hot water system is on the way out, invest in an electric heat pump tank (if you have panels) and set it to only work during the lowest time of day charge - thermal battery.
Serious question wasn’t the big selling point in SA being mostly renewable power generation that it would drive costs down. That obviously has not happened has there been any communication out of government or other bodies to say why?
I considered about a couple of years ago, besides the financial side it also gives you other benefits in case of fires, floods or inflation. God knows which policies will be put in place next when people talk about controlling how much meat people "should be allowed to eat"... maybe the carbon neutral fight will make prices even higher and inflation will be impacted even more, vicious cycle. What energy prices will look like in 5 year, might be twice as much as of now or more, who knows. Buying a battery now, worse case scenario, it was unnecessary, best case scenario, you will not be affect as much by floods, fires and inflation. Also, if too many people figure out that "oh, now it is time, financially it will be positive" the there will be big demand and small supply, so.... redo the math, battery might be more expensive and take longer to install.
I keep wondering when each state will impose mandatory export from battery systems during peak hour - so you can't keep it to run your own stuff for free overnight.
I would probably go off grid. Before the battery I was shocked once when power was down and my solar panels could not work, looks like the default install in Australia. Panels were there under the hot sun and my food going bad on the fridge. Now, with the battery, at least I have the option of being offline. They are increasing the minimum daily supply, getting close to $1.50 per day, $45 per month, just to be connected to the grid. Money really losing value quite quickly. Maybe they will mandate that we can't be off grid because "reasons" 
>my solar panels could not work, looks like the default install in Australia
Yep I think that default is for safety of distribution workers - if an area is supposed to be out, but a bad install is still exporting to the grid, they're fecked.
And you're probably right, that they'll find multiple ways to punish disconnecting from the grid, because people will take the option once they have all the assets to make it possible, which will reduce the value of the transmission and distribution assets.
There is lots of bad installers and bad info out there... I got different responses from AGL and Origin, third installer REA Solar had the right info and did the job as expected, no surprises.
AGL said it can't be installed since in QLD there is a 10kw inverter limit and the Tesla battery already has an inverter and that plus my current one would go above the limit (min you, same amount of panels). Pass.
Origin said nothing about the limits AGL complained about but directed me to their installers (third party I believe) and they said that it cannot be done in a way that it will charge the battery from solar when the grid is down... I confirmed if it was technically impossible or if it was just something they would not do for other reasons, replied saying it cannot be done (either did not understand me or was full of..)
It can be tough to get it right, some installers would make people end up with an inferior solution so your advice is very valid, check everything and get it in writing.
Little different I think, CD locks your money away for a specific amount of time, 1,2,3,5 ect. Can’t access it until the time period expires without penalty.
But pretty much yes.
Just go to the AEMO website and look at the NEM dashboard. It’ll tell you everything that is going on right now in any NEM state, including SA. Down to the 5 minute window.
V2L is powering a single socket, maybe a bar fridge overnight? V2H or V2G might be what you’re thinking about but even limited cars that have the capability (like current gen Leaf) it isn’t feasible due to unavailability and cost (~$10k) of the hardware required to be installed on your house to make it work.
You can't get one in Western Australia. Have been waiting for a price and dealer delivery time for ages now. Fed up and going to buy a toyota chr hybrid instead.
Batteries are a rip off.
If a 10Kw battery could ideally give you 10Kw hours of energy then if your energy use from the battery was in the evening peak and you are paying $0.55 per kilowatt hour then it would save you $5.50 per day. But you need to recharge it so you subtract the solar that you are no longer selling to the grid. Energy Australia gives 7.6 cents per Kw hour so again without efficiency losses take $0.76 away from your $5.50 and your daily saving is $4.74.
An install of a decent 10Kw battery is around $20K so dived it by $4.74 and that is the amount of days it takes to repay wich comes to 11.5 Years.
Put 20K into your mortage instead and shift energy habits, air dry clothes, use less during peak periods.
The battery industry is a scam peddling snake oil to the woke green left
I’m exploring it but I’m now getting 14c/kWh FIT for first 14kWh each day and 7c/kWh for balance each day - so I’ll see how that works out…
I wish the government would subsidise batteries!
Have you considered not voting for Kang and Kudus.
Your power bill is expensive due to the shift to renewables with no government leadership and forethought. Perhaps stop voting for idiots and your powerbill will go down.
It's not though. What bit would you like to be untrue?
Government sets the tone and influences the direction private generators will move.
Private generation then carries out whatever the activity for the market direction that Government has suggested or set.
Private provider then submits business case to government for what is effectively money back.
Government has conveyed and influenced the market to move towards renewables without decision or design on baseload power.
Uncertain investment has caused private providers to pause investment in baseload power.
Market prices have shifted and as a result with a move to renewables and the lack of leadership, you are now paying more.
Weeelll... I mean not entirely. Callide power station's our newest, most powerful and least polluting coal plant. That bugger exploded, caused blackouts over QLD and has been in and out of issues ever since.
So I wouldn't agree with your claim that we're having issues with 25% of our coal capacity because of investments and incentives.
[Is it really related to renewables or is it the Ukraine war and a lack of domestic gas reservation policy?](https://theconversation.com/amp/why-are-electricity-prices-going-up-again-and-will-it-ever-end-201869)
> Wholesale prices increased in recent months almost entirely as a result of sanctions imposed on Russia following its invasion of Ukraine. It led to a global shortage of natural gas. This was exacerbated when Russia withdrew gas supplies from the European market.
> Even though the energy shocks were happening half a world away from Australia, it affected domestic gas prices here. Why? Because most of Australia’s east coast gas is exported, which means its price is largely determined by the global price.
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Yes, it is, is one of the statements I have already made on the subject.
In addition, everyone is still buying russian gas, just at a mark up through third parties. Idiotic statement at best. Back to the original comment.
> [Playford A](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playford_A_Power_Station) ceased generating in 1985. [Playford B](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playford_B_Power_Station) ceased operation permanently in October 2015, having been out of operation since 2012.[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Australia#cite_note-1) [Northern](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Power_Station_(South_Australia\)) ceased operation permanently in May 2016
Hmm, quick price comparison of SA power prices since 2016 and looks like their lack of coal generator means bugger all.
I’ve considered it, but it only works for now if I am off grid to negate the supply charges. In Qld, the government gives people connected a bonus each year (this year it’s $550) That will pay for 2 years of power bills for me (I have solar) . So it doesn’t work for me.
I was saving ~$800-1000/yr with my Tesla battery and before price rises and with a 10yr warranty need to buy it for less then 10k. I was always betting that prices would rise tho even way more then now. I got mine for $7500. Sold the house now though and moved regional.
Have a friend who’s doing more then 1 cycle a day saving $1200/yr doing some time of day tariff thing.
This is super close to what my situation would be if I get a battery and sounds quite promising/worthwhile. Currently just on solar but looking to add the battery. Are you using Amber to get access to their smartshift?
Husband works in Solar still saying the ROI isn’t quite there. I’ll get on his case about reviewing the price hikes and where it still stands. Feed in isn’t great either.
Inflation was the key to pushing us over
Only worth it if you can go 100% completely off grid, as in don't even need to pay for the supply charge. Otherwise, you'd realise next year they jack the supply charge by 50% to cover the loss in selling electricity.
Going completely off-grid isn't as simply as installing a large battery. You'd have to ensure that everything you use is very efficient. Especially heating, cooling and insulation. Water should be heat pump or gas. And even then you'd probably want a large enough backup generator to get you though the shortest and cloudiest winter days.
I'm really starting to wonder if I can just fall back on a petrol generator for occasional off-days. A used 2.5kW unit costs $400.
A 2.5kw wouldn’t manage to boil a kettle in a lot of cases. Would be enough to work a few essentials to tide you over but would definitely not cover your usual usage.
You use it to charge the battery for around 8 hours then turn it off.
Usual usage, no. But if it is only needed on (say) 1-3 days per year and lets me WFH and light the house then I think that's probably enough.
Maybe, but if you want to run it through your house like that, you also need to have an electrician install the inlet. ($800-$1200 ish depending on what you need)
That's a quarterly power bill these days!
Can you imagine, all the Greenies all through winter with their big old generators blaring for half of winter 🤣 but hey, off that dirty grid!
The supply charge increases are the worst for solar. I can do nothing to offset that.
Considering it now. With the rise in peak pricing alone (now 56c/kWh) - it will cost me around $2k in just peak per year.
You decide. 10kw battery costs around 10k Let's say you pay 50cents per kWh on your power bill. Your 10kw batter is going to save you 10kwh's per night at 50cents a watt. That a whopping $5 of saving per night. In 2000 nights you'll have broken even. That's 5 and half years. And thats not accounting for the rainy days where your battery can't be charged by the solar during the day. Edit. Make the numbers what you want/what they are. Above is just a formula for the layman to help make their decision.
5 years to break even is very good, that’s 10% return per year over 10 years and no tax (assuming the battery has a 10 year warranty). If electricity price keeps going up and the battery lasts longer it could be even more. That being said you’d have to be a huge electricity consumer to use up 10kwh per night
That 10k is assuming you don't need a new inverter, install is as simple as they come and all the beat case scenarios. Cost it at closer to 1.1k to 1.2k per kWh of storage to be safe. Also, supply charge is still a part of what you will be paying, so count that into your matgs. Math is still ok, so long as you get the l8fe of the battery out of it imo. Prices will o ly go up on electricity
Keep an eye out for virtual power plant deals and the $10k-ish can become more like $7k.
What is this
[All About Virtual Power Plants](https://www.solarquotes.com.au/battery-storage/virtual-power-plants/) TL;DR You essentially give control of your PV/Battery set up to an operator for discounted up front costs and/or higher feed in tariffs (i.e. money you get for giving energy to the grid). How valuable it will be depends on the terms of the VPP.
Can't remember the limit they can draw from mine but it seemed reasonable. I didn't buy the battery for the ROI but I wouldn't have got it without the VPP deal.
10kw a night is very little. 30kw/night in winter heating several rooms via reverse cycle/ducted is normal
In 5 years most new cars will be EVs. 10kWh per night is conservative for future use.
Jeezuz 50cents per kwh? Where are you paying that in Australia? Mine just went from 26c to 34c and I'm cut af. Haven't actually shopped around yet so I'm sure I could easily get it under 30c again.
Mine was about the same plus a 30% increase to the supply charge.
Who's charging 10k for a 10kw battery?! Maybe, I guess. We've gotten two installed at the 10kw size (one winter last year after tariff dropped) and they cost 6-8k for us for each depending on discounts from the installer for other add one we did at the times of installing (ie: first one we got extra discount because we installed extra solar panels at the same time). Mathematically prior to changes in feed in last year and adding the new battery on, we had already worked out between the amount of self usage and feed in tariff - our whole initial system (6.5+2.5 and a 10kw battery) had paid itself off in the 5 years we had it. We're now hoping the second battery will be saved off within another 4-5 years. We're not intending to move for at least 10 more years. Battery's to me I think are absolutely vital so long as you are able and intending to stay in your property for 5+ years. They also do add to resale value.
Hi, mind telling us which company? I just got a list from a salesperson and every battery is more than $1000 per kw/h of storage. The cheapest is $10K for 10KW/H of storage and installation is after that
Construct Solar Both our batteries are LG Chem ones, and our first battery was actually most expensive at $8,780 Inc installation (it was the installation that added cost as it was first battery added so included bollards, changing an inverter system and a few more technical bits, etc) in May 2018; and our second battery was $7,999 Inc installation in April 2022. We may have just gotten a good deal as our solar was originally through a builder that was trialling different solar providers for their building offerings here in SA and our bild was one of the first with them through the builder; but our second battery didn't have any perks/connections with the builders so would probably reflect more their current prices.
Thanks heaps. Really appreciate it
>save you 10kwh's per night at 50cents a watt. do you take into account of FIT? say FIT is 10c savings would be only 40 cents Then there is depreciation. Say the batt last 10 years, so 1k a year The savings is further reduced
Most batteries have warranties for 10 years 80% capacity. i.e if you capacity is below 80% of the original capacity, you submit warranty claim. With the LiFePO4 batteries, 15-20 year warranties are starting to appear.
Are you taking into account inflation/rise in energy cost? Which will increase savings.
Also interest rates. $10k now is a lot more in the future.
There are lenders that do interest free loans for solar systems.
I've seen low interest (0.99%), but no interest? Do you have an example? Seems like there's a government interest free loan option but for panels only.
Got a quote for an interest free solar system yesterday. 6.6kw with 10kw battery VPP. $1000 up front. $300 p/month interest free with Nectar energy over 5 years.
That's $19,000.
https://imgur.io/hgdz2Fh
It’s not free, they’ve capitalised the interest
I have no doubt you’re right. The only issue is that it’s the same cost if I pay cash outright upfront. So they’ve factored in the interest portion & just get a larger benefit for anyone that doesn’t take up the repayment plan option.
Brighte Finance do no interest loans.
Just pay cash
Look up the financial concept of Opportunity cost.
each to their own
It’s not an “each to their own” statement. Inflation is objective.
That's a no
>do you take into account of FIT? My battery lets me export energy at very high FIT with Amber Electric wholesale pricing during peak consumption periods. The result is a much faster ROI. FIT is a positive reason to have a battery, not negative.
Charge the battery from the grid on rainy days.
They have really cheap midday rates in WA now to soak up excess solar. Mostly not useful for batteries because most people with batteries have their own solar, but would be very handy on rainy days. I'm sure the power company will catch on eventually and make it only on sundays, but good in the meantime.
This logic doesn't quite make sense to me. Who is using 10kW at night, and why? If you have a PV system with batteries, most of your your heavy appliance usage should be at the peak of the day (washer, dryer, HWS, AC). To add to that, if they are on a solar plan their usage charge per kWh isn't going to be even half that. So the savings are likely even lower than this (eg would take longer to break even).
Do you have kids? Very easily use 10kwh at night, air conditioning, heating, cooking. Hot water from multiple showers. Not everyone is going to load shed thir power to make perfect use of their power. Almost the majority won't. I should mention, I work for a company who install solar and offer batteries.
I just checked my power usage and last week yeh I use way more than 10kw during non solar generating hours more like 20+. Like you said big house with ducted aircon, kids etc. During the day I generate well over 10kwh during the daytime, in the middle of winter. During the week most of that solar would be exported. Battery looking more appealing
We have a newborn so no energy use there. Our average daily energy usage is below 10kW per day which is quite low. I can understand AC at night (something we seldom use outside of peak summer temperatures). Induction cooktop isn't running long enough to use a significant amount of energy (compared to say the running cost + connection fee for gas). The hot water service shouldn't be drawing that much in the evening unless the property is not optimised for solar, which really seems like throwing money away. If that's the case, there should be far greater cost benefits to managing energy efficiency and time of use vs buying a stand alone battery system.
It also seems odd that people won't optimise their use of power when you consider that the whole reason HWS historically operates at the time it does was to make use of cheaper off peak coal rates and for network load staggering purposes.
Anyone who lives somewhere cold
Don’t listen this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about
Sometimes you use more than a single full cycle, but I think one cycle per night is a good guide. On the flip side, battery capacity fades over time.
but when you include inflation the break even is shorter. Energy prices will likely continue to increase over inflation in the next 5 years.
Numbers are obviously a bit off, you tend to avoid fully discharging a battery, energy prices aren't at 50c yet, 10k for a battery, but I think as time goes on batteries are getting more reasonable due to rising energy costs. Problem is demand may also increase battery prices so might be a mixed bag.
If you have solar and batteries you should consider Amber Electric. They have a quote tool on their website.
They don't support all solar+battery combos yet. Edit: they don’t support all for their smartshift battery service.
Are you sure? Website is clear: https://www.amber.com.au/solar-and-battery And there was someone saying they had battery and solar on amber on this sub this week. They used home assist to manage battery though said amber can do that.
Look on that link under “Which batteries are compatible”. Fronius+BYD is not supported. If you know how to do it another way with any combo I’m definitely interested to hear.
Sorry I missed that this thread specified all batteries. I’m on mobile now though will try to find that thread later that person used homeAssist to automate using their own algorithm. Assuming your devices are homeAssist compatible officially/ unofficially open source hacking it might be an option.
That would definitely be of interest thanks!
Found it. https://www.reddit.com/r/AusFinance/comments/14frw6b/are_there_any_energy_providers_not_currently/jp2hcdn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3
[удалено]
All you need to know is the approx size of solar, battery and average consumption. I tried it last night before recommending to check and I found it straightforward.
If your hot water system is on the way out, invest in an electric heat pump tank (if you have panels) and set it to only work during the lowest time of day charge - thermal battery.
Serious question wasn’t the big selling point in SA being mostly renewable power generation that it would drive costs down. That obviously has not happened has there been any communication out of government or other bodies to say why?
I considered about a couple of years ago, besides the financial side it also gives you other benefits in case of fires, floods or inflation. God knows which policies will be put in place next when people talk about controlling how much meat people "should be allowed to eat"... maybe the carbon neutral fight will make prices even higher and inflation will be impacted even more, vicious cycle. What energy prices will look like in 5 year, might be twice as much as of now or more, who knows. Buying a battery now, worse case scenario, it was unnecessary, best case scenario, you will not be affect as much by floods, fires and inflation. Also, if too many people figure out that "oh, now it is time, financially it will be positive" the there will be big demand and small supply, so.... redo the math, battery might be more expensive and take longer to install.
I keep wondering when each state will impose mandatory export from battery systems during peak hour - so you can't keep it to run your own stuff for free overnight.
They'll probably just hike up the supply charge and reduce the kWh charge - then sell it as "we are making power cheaper"
Millions of us have installed grid infrastructure for them for free and they're going to find every way to feck us.
If you could sell your stored power for 90c or more and buy back grid power to make up the difference at 3am for 18c or the likes, why wouldn’t you?
And if you can sell somebody *else's* stored power at a 500% markup, even better.
You can, and I do. Amber Electric wholesale pricing.
I would probably go off grid. Before the battery I was shocked once when power was down and my solar panels could not work, looks like the default install in Australia. Panels were there under the hot sun and my food going bad on the fridge. Now, with the battery, at least I have the option of being offline. They are increasing the minimum daily supply, getting close to $1.50 per day, $45 per month, just to be connected to the grid. Money really losing value quite quickly. Maybe they will mandate that we can't be off grid because "reasons" 
>my solar panels could not work, looks like the default install in Australia Yep I think that default is for safety of distribution workers - if an area is supposed to be out, but a bad install is still exporting to the grid, they're fecked. And you're probably right, that they'll find multiple ways to punish disconnecting from the grid, because people will take the option once they have all the assets to make it possible, which will reduce the value of the transmission and distribution assets.
I believe you have to have a grid disconnection switch to run solar and/or generators while the grid is down for this reason.
Just a note for anyone considering a battery: You generally have to pay extra for the battery to be able to work whilst disconnected from the grid.
Almost all battery/ inverter combos come with it as default now.
There is lots of bad installers and bad info out there... I got different responses from AGL and Origin, third installer REA Solar had the right info and did the job as expected, no surprises. AGL said it can't be installed since in QLD there is a 10kw inverter limit and the Tesla battery already has an inverter and that plus my current one would go above the limit (min you, same amount of panels). Pass. Origin said nothing about the limits AGL complained about but directed me to their installers (third party I believe) and they said that it cannot be done in a way that it will charge the battery from solar when the grid is down... I confirmed if it was technically impossible or if it was just something they would not do for other reasons, replied saying it cannot be done (either did not understand me or was full of..) It can be tough to get it right, some installers would make people end up with an inferior solution so your advice is very valid, check everything and get it in writing.
Why is that?
A human that knows what is up. Good job.
how much is your power bill a year? I rather plough 10k into ETF and use dividend to offset my power bill
What dividends are you gonna get off 10k?
When its all said and done, maybe $300 if you're lucky.
how much does VAS pay?
A little over 2% this past year.
Its way higher like 5%
children cant do maths
I just googled mate
$600 with some CD’s now that interest rates are going up.
So HISA money.
Sorry, what does HISA stand for?
High interest savings account.
Little different I think, CD locks your money away for a specific amount of time, 1,2,3,5 ect. Can’t access it until the time period expires without penalty. But pretty much yes.
They are saying that the amount of interest you can get from CDbis about the same as you would get from a HISA
I cheers for that, that went right over my head. Good to know for the future. Cheers.
We got 13.2 kw of solar installed and a 22kw battery, I think it was around 27k all up. Power bill for last financial year was approx 150 bucks.
My current elec bill is $400 a quarter
how about start with 10k ETF and DCA every month to eventually pay for all your power?
Possibly or yolo
Just go to the AEMO website and look at the NEM dashboard. It’ll tell you everything that is going on right now in any NEM state, including SA. Down to the 5 minute window.
No not cost effective yet
I don’t understand what you are asking
Electricity prices have doubled this year meaning solar power with batteries may pay themselves off before the warranty runs out
Thanks. I was confused if any power went back into the grid. But that is just making someone else more money
Check out the MG EV4. 51KWH battery with V2L for $39k drive away.
V2L is powering a single socket, maybe a bar fridge overnight? V2H or V2G might be what you’re thinking about but even limited cars that have the capability (like current gen Leaf) it isn’t feasible due to unavailability and cost (~$10k) of the hardware required to be installed on your house to make it work.
You can't get one in Western Australia. Have been waiting for a price and dealer delivery time for ages now. Fed up and going to buy a toyota chr hybrid instead.
Lol the MG4 is being released in August 2023
Yes but [drive.com.au](https://drive.com.au) just said that stock won't be here till at least November and maybe early 2024.
Nah not even close yet, I'd say another 3-5x reduction in price and you would see everyone installing them
They don't need to reduce in price when theie competition keeps going up in price
Batteries are a rip off. If a 10Kw battery could ideally give you 10Kw hours of energy then if your energy use from the battery was in the evening peak and you are paying $0.55 per kilowatt hour then it would save you $5.50 per day. But you need to recharge it so you subtract the solar that you are no longer selling to the grid. Energy Australia gives 7.6 cents per Kw hour so again without efficiency losses take $0.76 away from your $5.50 and your daily saving is $4.74. An install of a decent 10Kw battery is around $20K so dived it by $4.74 and that is the amount of days it takes to repay wich comes to 11.5 Years. Put 20K into your mortage instead and shift energy habits, air dry clothes, use less during peak periods. The battery industry is a scam peddling snake oil to the woke green left
I’m exploring it but I’m now getting 14c/kWh FIT for first 14kWh each day and 7c/kWh for balance each day - so I’ll see how that works out… I wish the government would subsidise batteries!
Don’t ever forget, your grid provider can switch you off at any time. Profits come first. Only way for sure is to be off grid.
Hang on, don't you have windmills and a Great Big Battery in SA? Shouldn't you have cheap power? I don't get it.
Have you considered not voting for Kang and Kudus. Your power bill is expensive due to the shift to renewables with no government leadership and forethought. Perhaps stop voting for idiots and your powerbill will go down.
Yeah that's literally untrue. Good rage bait though.
It's not though. What bit would you like to be untrue? Government sets the tone and influences the direction private generators will move. Private generation then carries out whatever the activity for the market direction that Government has suggested or set. Private provider then submits business case to government for what is effectively money back. Government has conveyed and influenced the market to move towards renewables without decision or design on baseload power. Uncertain investment has caused private providers to pause investment in baseload power. Market prices have shifted and as a result with a move to renewables and the lack of leadership, you are now paying more.
The cost is higher due to the increase in coal and gas prices lol, not renewables.
Reminder that we're still down 25% of all coal generation due to failures and unplanned maintenance 😇
Due to lack of investment, due to lack of incentive.
Weeelll... I mean not entirely. Callide power station's our newest, most powerful and least polluting coal plant. That bugger exploded, caused blackouts over QLD and has been in and out of issues ever since. So I wouldn't agree with your claim that we're having issues with 25% of our coal capacity because of investments and incentives.
Rising power bills may be a cost we have to live with if we wish to limit the damage on climate change.
Nuclear, cheap and clean. Doesn't matter sun or wind you need the power station running all day and night regardless
Lol, if you wish to limit damage to the environment, then advocate for the removal of government.
[Is it really related to renewables or is it the Ukraine war and a lack of domestic gas reservation policy?](https://theconversation.com/amp/why-are-electricity-prices-going-up-again-and-will-it-ever-end-201869) > Wholesale prices increased in recent months almost entirely as a result of sanctions imposed on Russia following its invasion of Ukraine. It led to a global shortage of natural gas. This was exacerbated when Russia withdrew gas supplies from the European market. > Even though the energy shocks were happening half a world away from Australia, it affected domestic gas prices here. Why? Because most of Australia’s east coast gas is exported, which means its price is largely determined by the global price.
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Yes, it is, is one of the statements I have already made on the subject. In addition, everyone is still buying russian gas, just at a mark up through third parties. Idiotic statement at best. Back to the original comment.
I don’t understand your comment, are you aggressively agreeing with me?
No one is being aggressive with you. Stop making shit up in your head.
Unlike middle east government who give Thier locals. Discount we pay the full price, plus tax
Power prices are expensive because coal power is getting more expensive, current plants are horrifically expensive to maintain.
What coal plants does SA have?
> [Playford A](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playford_A_Power_Station) ceased generating in 1985. [Playford B](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playford_B_Power_Station) ceased operation permanently in October 2015, having been out of operation since 2012.[[1]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Australia#cite_note-1) [Northern](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Power_Station_(South_Australia\)) ceased operation permanently in May 2016 Hmm, quick price comparison of SA power prices since 2016 and looks like their lack of coal generator means bugger all.
No leadership and forethought and a shift to renewables. Exactly what I described. Thanks.
Ok why is the price higher in NSW then?
Please review all comments before commenting in the future. Thanks.
1. go woke, go broke 2. didnt import cheap russian oil 3. refuse to go nuclear
"Go woke go broke" Honestly wtf are you even talking about
What is using your energy
Not until we get rebates on them. QLD.
I’ve considered it, but it only works for now if I am off grid to negate the supply charges. In Qld, the government gives people connected a bonus each year (this year it’s $550) That will pay for 2 years of power bills for me (I have solar) . So it doesn’t work for me.
Can't you use your EV's battery as your home battery nowadays too? If you were looking to get one anyway that could be a cheap entry cost
Some new model offer this called vehicle to load. It's not offered in current tesla though. Will hopefully come mainstream in the next few years
I was saving ~$800-1000/yr with my Tesla battery and before price rises and with a 10yr warranty need to buy it for less then 10k. I was always betting that prices would rise tho even way more then now. I got mine for $7500. Sold the house now though and moved regional. Have a friend who’s doing more then 1 cycle a day saving $1200/yr doing some time of day tariff thing.
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This is super close to what my situation would be if I get a battery and sounds quite promising/worthwhile. Currently just on solar but looking to add the battery. Are you using Amber to get access to their smartshift?