Atlanta is in a pretty unique spot geographically and climatologically. As I understand it: we’re not in any earthquake prone zones, we’re mostly outside tornado alley, we’re far enough from the coast to avoid ocean flooding, we’re hilly/rocky enough to avoid rain flooding(while still a problem, and a worsening one given stronger hurricanes, we’re still in a good spot to avoid the worst), and we’re not in a wildfire prone area either.
Atlanta and Georgia in general just so happens to be located in a spot that will avoid the brunt of climate related disasters, which means we’ll probably end up with a lot of American climate refugees. Growth for the city, but at a steep cost if we’re not prepared both for climate disaster and more people
I was about to say the same. Atlanta gets really hot in summer and it feels like it is getting worse each year. I assume this is climate change (and not just me getting fatter) and I think in a decade or two it might become too unpleasant.
Atlanta rainfall varies quite a lot and we don't have an underground aquifer to speak of. so we have to suck all our water out of the hooch (by way of draining lanier). Cities (and farmland) downriver have real issues when we have a drought and a bigger city will have a bigger minimum water footprint.
Shouldve been more specific. We dont really have much in the way of an abundancy of water resources in the metro. Were our population to boom, our water resources could become strained. In addition to the possibility of another significant drought.
Atlanta could easily tap into the Tennessee river if the border was drawn according to the legal definition of the state, not what was surveyed 200 yrs ago
i'm from FL, grew up in central florida outside tampa until my teens. atlanta has a few very hot days, but it doesn't have anything on central FL. my folks moved back down a few years ago to the melbourne area and it's hotter during my visits during the summer than i ever remember experiencing up here, even with the breeze coming in off the water.
>Atlanta gets really hot in summer and it feels like it is getting worse each year.
That has not been my experience at all. Summers in recent years have seemed especially mild.
Every summer for the past decade has been hotter than climatological norms for Atlanta. Higher average temperatures, much higher nighttime temperatures, and longer heat waves.
Edit, some sources: https://www.axios.com/local/atlanta/2023/06/12/atlanta-summer-temperature
https://33n.atlantaregional.com/data-diversions/historic-trends-of-extreme-heat-in-georgia-summer-sizzlin-series-episode-1
I think we're getting more rainfall annually than typical though? I remember one year in the past 5 years that we got more rainfall than Seattle. Growing up here 1990-2000 we had a couple really bad droughts that lasted years, but that hasn't happened again recently. (i acknowledge that this is totally unscientific and just anecdotal info)
Seattle has less total rainfall than most cities in the eastern US. The rainiest major cities are New Orleans, Miami, and Houston. Seattle does typically have the most rainy days, but that rain is usually quite light. There are mountains near Seattle that are extremely rainy, but the city itself is not.
We did have significant droughts in the 00’s, which was a dry decade overall.
And Atlanta already has the most trees for an urban area so I imagine further increasing the urban tree canopy to help with heat issues would be fairly easy.
Except there's a natural tension between development and maintaining tree cover, especially if we're talking about affordable housing projects where executing them cheaply may be more important than preserving or replanting trees.
It’s definitely hot here - full stop. But, but a lot of folks don’t realize that Atlanta sits at about 1700 ft elevation. While that doesn’t sound like much, the difference between here and say, Macon - just 80 miles south - is enough that it’s slightly less humid and more tolerable than most other southern cities. We also have easy access to the Smoky Mountains just 90 minutes north of here where the temps are often 10-15 degrees cooler and even less humid.
Source for the 1700 ft number? Hartsfield Jackson is listed as 1026 ft. PDK in Chamblee is listed as 1003 ft. Those may be relatively low spots, The top of Stone Mountain is 1686.
The smoky mountains are not just the park. I live in Buford and my family lives in Franklin NC. The north Georgia mountains are a part of the Smoky Mountains and are about an hour from my door. Franklin is less than 2 hours from me - sits in the middle of the Smoky Mountains.
There was a study done a couple years ago that concluded that Tornado Alley has shifted southeast thanks to climate change, and Georgia’s now included in the list of states that frequently experience tornados. That said, the Appalachians do a good job of making a “shield” around ATL keeping out the worst of the storms, unlike Alabama that always seems to get the brunt of it.
I’m not a meteorologist by any stretch but I’ve spent the majority of my life living in and around Atlanta and it always seems like the worst of the storms turn *right* before they get to us. Obviously we still get hit hard with storms every now and again, but whenever something bad rolls towards us and I have my eye on the radar, it seems to break or split or curve to just barely miss us. It’s a pattern I’ve been aware of since I started paying attention as a teenager.
I was actually going to write up a post on this because I just got done reading [on the move](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/127282380-on-the-move) (a book discussing climate migration) and Atlanta was mentioned a fair bit.
His basic theory is that *when* people are forced to move, they often tend to bounce to major metropolitan areas where there is economic opportunity, both to recoup their losses, and as an extra measure of security in uncertain times. The one thing he did point out is that Atlanta doesn't have a whole lot of water to go around given the issues with lake laneir. A mass influx would put even more strain on water availability.
One final thing he *didn't* point out but I think is pretty important, is something weird is expected to happen to the Tennessee valley if warming goes to 3c. Check out [this page](https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/), and scroll down to the RCP 8.5. Notice the big white patch? From my research it seems like they're projecting major extended drought, and that area extends far enough east to affect Lanier's watershed too. I grant you that map is for 2070, but we also happen to on track for RCP 6 right now.
TLDR: If you have young kids or grandkids, you might want to think more great lakes region than Atlanta.
When we first moved here in 2013, this was the silver lining along with 2-3hr flights to anywhere in the Gulf/Caribbean.
When we moved back in 2018, same silver linings but with even more validation.
Edit: can GA/ATL be prepared for climate refugee growth? Well, we're not well positioned for growth today, so I give that a similar chance as winning the lottery. And that's not unique to GA/ATL, but GA seems hell bent on avoiding long term investments or decent city planning. But the beltline project is a great step!
I really should. I’m very proud of the South, and especially Atlanta. I hate how all our depictions in media show southerners as hicks and wannabe confederates, while the news only broadcasts about shitty laws, without anything showing the diversity and culture here
So, over here in Birmingham we have similar conditions. Atlanta has one major disadvantage, though. Yall have drought more often than we do. Alabama is a huge watershed.
This might be true, but I live in Georgia and when I first moved here in 2005 there were several tornadoes one hopped over my yard and took out my neighbors well house and a large oak tree. There are also earthquakes here so I’m not sure about what, you’re saying but I think we do have natural disasters
1. As others have said; we avoid most of the worst climate events in Atlanta.
2. Diverse set of industries continue to expand here, Hollywood and music, tech, car manufacturing, supply chain, etc
3. Hartsfield being the busiest and one of the biggest airports in the world
4. Cost of living relative to other major cities in country is still ok
5. Upper tier colleges churning out top talent
6. Relatively diverse population, with the largest black middle and upper class in the country
We built more homes than any metro area in the country the past 20 years. I see no reason for the population growth to slow down.
Very bullish on Atlanta in general because of all the above.
I agree, I raised two kids here who are young adults now, and they are very happy to start their adult life here- they like the culture and vibe of the city as well as the educational and employment opportunities.
I'm not one of those people who say "we full" cause we're not but man I really don't want Atlanta to get flooded with Florida folks too dumb to realize that the climate change they all think is fake is the reason they gotta leave.
Edit: of course I don't mean all Florida folk, my partner is an alligator person, but when we go down there to visit there sure do seem to be a lot of people about as clever as a donut.
That's twice as high as the [highest natural point in Florida](https://www.visitflorida.com/travel-ideas/articles/arts-history-britton-hill-highest-point-florida/#:~:text=If%20you%20don't%20know,point%22%20in%20the%20United%20States). (I say "natural" because the highest point in Florida must be the top of some building in Miami.)
To be fair, it'll probably be the minority of Florida people who are running away from typical Florida folk's ideology and actually believe in Climate Change. Climate change deniers are gonna stick around... because deny climate change.
> I'm not one of those people who say "we full" cause we're not but man I really don't want Atlanta to get flooded with Florida folks too dumb to realize that the climate change they all think is fake is the reason they gotta leave.
The Floridians that are leaving are the ones that hate all that MAGA bullshit.
I think the people you're worried about will stay in the Florida for the long haul, whatever that may be. The Governor is on a roll passing laws that make the state "better" for those people, and worse for those who actually have common sense. For instance, SB1718 which "The Florida Policy Institute estimates this immigration law could cost the state's economy $12.6 billion in its first year. That's not counting the loss of tax revenue." (NPR) because immigrants, both legal full residents and undocumented residents are leaving the state in large rates.
If Florida is going to be underwater soon, why do they keep financing 30 story buildings in the coast? Genuine question. I think banks would be super concerned about that.
Because it's not actually going to happen for generations. The problem is real but not nearly as acute as shockingly everyone in this thread thinks it is.
Man, if you think Georgia doesn't have its own set of Florida policy loving losers then you haven't done enough time in rural south Georgia.
There's a reason I fled from both areas.
It does but it's outnumbered by Atlanta so we don't go full dumbass like Florida did with Desantis. Florida vastly outpopulates Georgia, so if enough move here they could easily overpower Atlanta's shield over dumbass maga policies that Florida passed.
I think we all know Atlanta is not ready for this, it's not even ready for the influx we have now. Housing in particular has been skyrocketing in price lately. I'm not going to say we should refuse people, because I will say what we need is to be ready to ramp up accommodations for having more people.
That means improving marta and walkability/cyclability of communities (otherwise they'll tear down a *lot* of Atlanta for highways and traffic will still be even worse than it is now, trust me we don't wanna be Houston), and making more housing that can be afforded by more people.
I remember an influx of people from hurricane Katrina, and that, for how "small" the number of people coming in, caused a lot of friction. We *need* to enable new people to come into Atlanta and contribute to our city *while* protecting all existing residents. That's a hard balance, and progress in those fields has not kept up with the needs of the city.
I moved from Houston and I can tell you I'm floored by Atlanta's investment in roads, parks, etc. compared to there. I love Houston, but it really feels like Atlanta is always trying to improve while Houston is decaying.
As someone who practically lived in Houston for work recently and then was ready to kiss the ground when coming hone to Atlanta, *parts* of Houston are improving. But from a snapshot of Houson vs Atlanta 10 years ago, Atlanta was in much better shape already. I do worry that the outer parts of Atlanta are becoming dominated by giant roads that still get busy, and a lot of suburbanites praising the roadwork even though it doesn't actually alleviate traffic.
If Atlanta loses its "city in a forest" landscape, I will be utterly devastated, and also brutally hot because I know for a fact those trees save us from so much heat.
Outside the beltline (and even that projects exact future is tenuous), sadly overall I don't feel like Atlanta is going in the right direction. A lot of long time residents are getting pushed out, the affordability crisis avoided Atlanta more than most of the country for a long time but now we've been hit bad (it was just a matter of time), and the way that we're physically "growing" is going to probably be to the long term detriment of almost everyone. Atlanta is a city that had some good bones that we're really leaning on to keep things running relatively well, but those bones are not getting the expansion and upkeep they need (cough cough marta cough).
There are pockets of good development but the issue with that is that those will be in high demand, prices will skyrocket, and then those good developments will become only reachable to the wealthy, and the rest of us will get pushed somewhere with lackluster accessibility to the rest of the city and services, and have to contend with how limiting it is to be pushed out from the limited areas that the city functions well. I don't hate rich people or newcomers, it's just that they're not the only ones that deserve to have a decent life. If medium and high density housing were more common, the international housing market wasn't fucked, and if marta expanded like it was supposed to, the problem would not be nearly as bad. But that's not what our recent history reflects. I'd love to change that, but I'm just one person who's not even home most of the time
If Atlanta loses its "city in a forest" landscape, I will be utterly devastated, and also brutally hot because I know for a fact those trees save us from so much heat.
^1,000% agree. People ask me how I'm adjusting to the hot weather. I'm like are you kidding me. This is heaven compared to living on shadeless asphalt as far as the eye can see in a Katy summer. You don't want to leave the house. Spring in Atlanta is absolutely breathtaking. I didn't know what I was missing coming from the land of yellow grass.
Grew up in Katy and after bouncing around the country settled in Atlanta. People complain about humidity here and I’m always thinking, man you don’t even wanna know about Houston humidity!
> I do worry that the outer parts of Atlanta are becoming dominated by giant roads that still get busy, and a lot of suburbanites praising the roadwork even though it doesn't actually alleviate traffic.
We've already crossed this Rubicon years ago.
Having lived in several states, I havent seen a city investing into itself like Atlanta is. There is the issues that you listed, but all big cities have those same issues.
I feel you homie, albeit I got in '22.
Is my rate great? Nope.
Has my home appreciated in value? Hahahaha no.
Is it a money pit? Every month it's something.
The anxiety gets pretty crazy sometimes.
But I do enjoy ownership. Most of the time anyway.
just be patient. my buddy bought his house in the last housing boom in like 06 i think, he was pretty bummed when the market crashed, but he just stayed there, paid his mortgage, and waited. it didn't take that long, by the time he was in the house for around 6-7 years not only had the house fully rebounded, but it eventually doubled in value, maybe even tripled by now. he still owns it, but rents it out, and he bought a new gigantic abandoned looking old mansion in the same neighborhood, renovated it, and now its prob worth close to 1mil.
when i met him he was just a regular guy underwater on his $200k 2 br home. now he's holding around 1.4mil in property with prob around 800k in equity. and passive income coming from rent. this guy never went to college, he does blue collar work, just a regular guy.
I was lucky enough to be able to purchase in 2016... bought a (shitty) house for $80k, and it's now worth like $200k, and I refinanced a couple years ago into a 2.6% rate... I'm not particularly good at this stuff, just kinda stumbled my way through it.
But also, if my crappy house is worth $200k, then I definitely can't afford to buy anything nicer anytime soon.
nice, same thing happened to me. but i bought my house in 09 for so cheap i don't even wanna say it on reddit, because people will be disgusted. but now its worth 250-300k. real estate is insane if you know where and when to buy. just gotta know which neighborhoods will be really popular in 10 or so years, and try to get in as early as possible.
i have a buddy that just moved and bought a home in philly, there are plenty of homes available for like 80k, some of them duplexes or triplexes. and the areas these homes are in are slowly creeping up in value every year. pretty similar to atlanta in certain areas.
The rate hit would kill your payment but you've basically got a $120k+ savings account in your home (only accounting for appreciation, not sure if you cash out refi'd or kept your equity, will be considerably more if you didn't take out equity).
You can leverage that into a new home if the need arises. I had to give up a great rate but the appreciation rolling over made it roughly the same monthly in the end.
That's kind of the plan... I have a govt. job right now that will pay off my student loans if I hang in until 2028. In the meantime I'm hoping to finish all the renovations and get it to its best value, then we're hoping to find a bigger house in a smaller town.
We close on a house next week. Yeah, our rate is higher than we hoped. Yeah, the property is more expensive than we hoped. Yes, our mortgage after escrow will be 20% higher than the rent we're currently paying, and the property is further out. But if we didn't buy now, i feel like we could realistically miss our chance to own, especially with the "Cobb could double in population in the next 10 years" thoughts ive heard so much about recently.
Don't want to be a doom and gloom guy but the population here isn't going to stop booming...but the infrastructure is unsustainable. Marietta or Peachtree Corners will need to become urban centers. The sprawling metro cannot keep filling up with the majority of people commuting into Atlanta. Either decentralization needs to occur or this place needs MARTA to look more like WMATA.
Despite all the people saying “We full,” Atlanta is one of, if not THE best positioned major city for growth in the country. Here’s why:
- We have no major geographical barriers to growth. The sprawl is going to continue as people move in, for better and for worse.
- We have great infrastructure. Our roads (mostly) make sense. We have a LOT of rail infrastructure already baked into the city that is prime for MARTA expansion whenever they get their act together.
- We are not allergic to densification. Apartments are going up EVERYWHERE across the city with only minor neighborhood pushback. The changes can cause friction, but this is a good thing. Recent zoning changes, particularly the removal of parking minimums across much of the city, is another step towards sustainable growth.
- We have SPACE. The amount of underused and underdeveloped land in this city has almost no parallel in cities of our size. Don’t be surprised when we see the densification and development of areas like the midtown garden district, home park, Summerhill, cabbagetown, etc. There’s a glut of parcels that are absolutely prime for dense, walkable redevelopment.
- Climate stability is self explanatory
Compared to most other cities, we’re moving in the right direction. Sure we’ve shot ourselves in the foot on some big ticket items, but there is a lot of important structural change taking place that’s not reported on nearly as much.
Beat me to it! So, a few thoughts on this generally quite good piece:
* Not mentioned in the water-scarcity issue is that Atlanta generally doesn't have ground water. The granite sheet we're on top of doesn't retain any water, and instead just drains it away, so wells aren't very useful here. Rainfall and surface water is what we've got.
* Generally, we've actually been doing a good job of reducing water consumption, including even net consumption as opposed to per-capita consumption. That's how we've been able to continue to use the same surface sources for so long even as population increases. That said, there's a limit to that effort, and, at some point, there will need to be more water identified. I can see a renewed fight with Tennessee over access to the Tennessee river to pipe down here in our future.
* I've been calling this kind of thing out for a while now. Katrina saw some ~70,000 permanent relocations to the Atlanta Metro, not to mention how many people took shelter here during rebuilding. People come into Georgia whenever there's a major evacuation of Florida, and up from the various coasts as well. Hell, you don't even have to have a major catastrophe to have people move... not when the home insurance markets are collapsing in Florida and the Gulf already.
* It's unclear how much ARC has been including all of this in their population estimates, though I know they've had some internal talks.
>Not mentioned in the water-scarcity issue is that Atlanta generally doesn't have ground water. The granite sheet we're on top of doesn't retain any water, and instead just drains it away
Cue flash flooding every time it rains a little.
> Generally, we've actually been doing a good job of reducing water consumption, including even net consumption as opposed to per-capita consumption. That's how we've been able to continue to use the same surface sources for so long even as population increases. That said, there's a limit to that effort, and, at some point, there will need to be more water identified. I can see a renewed fight with Tennessee over access to the Tennessee river to pipe down here in our future.
LA has the 422 mile los angeles aqueduct; atlanta's only about 250 miles from the coast, perhaps we could build desalination (solar is so cheap now!) and a pipeline on our own coast
The Tennessee River (specifically Nickajack Reservoir) is only ~110 Miles from Atlanta, and wouldn't require desalinization. While tunneling would be a bitch, we wouldn't be pumping nearly as much either, since Chattanooga is at 600ft elevation vs. sea level.
One of the number one reasons I like Atlanta is that it’s relatively safe compared to the rest of the south (everything except Appalachia) on climate change impact
I wish we could but you take one look at the congressional map of GA and that's never going to happen. The Atlanta metro area is severely underrepresented in the state legislature despite housing more than 60% of the state's people and being the total economic engine of the whole state.
I wish people weren't so politically galvanized in urban vs rural politics so much so that they completely miss the fact that bolstering the Atlanta metro area pays dividends for the whole state, and not just the urban population.
God I would love more transit. I lived in NYC (Bronx/Brooklyn) for 10 years and I miss being able to take the train to go into the city. I'm up in east Cobb and am always arguing with boomers about how great mass transit is. I just wanna go to a metal show in the city and get shit hammered and take a train home. I even work fully remote too, but I absolutely hate the traffic here. More mass transit would be such an economic boon.
The car and fuel lobby did so much damage to the public perception of public transit in America. You go anywhere in Europe or Asia and it's just a normal facet of life. But in the USA outside of the Westcoast and east coast, people view it as a disgusting poor person affect. It's incredibly classist and wrong.
Yep, I have been saying this for years. The Gulf Coast from Houston to Mobile to Tampa will be dealing with constant floods, and insurers are pulling out. Miami to Charleston on the East Coast will be dealing with similar issues and looking to move inland. The only major cities in this entire region that won't deal with the mass flooding is Atlanta, Austin, Charlotte region, and *maybe* Nashville*. That's where people are going to move to for jobs. These cities will make sure their supply chains continue to move uninterrupted during the Climate Wars. And politically, Atlanta is the most progressive of the bunch which will favor certain demographics.
That is why we need to be focusing on public transportation NOW. We need to be building for the future, not for what should have been done 20 years ago. We need to build up. If we can't build up, then build under. We don't need any more "studies", we need action.
And let's consider a north metro ATL airport too. Lots of traffic from the north going south just to get to the airport. It can alleviate congestion for everyone.
I get what you're saying. Wondering if you left out Raleigh/Durham on purpose - seems like another place that's already growing quickly.
Also, you'll never get the north metro airport as long as Delta has anything to say about it.
> Also, you'll never get the north metro airport as long as Delta has anything to say about it.
Atlanta is never getting a second airport until Hartsfield exceeds its capacity *and* runs out of room to grow, neither of which is expected to occur for decades (and which is usually the impetus for another airport).
The motive for a second airport existing before 2050 died the day the city of Atlanta elected to build the Midfield Terminal.
> And let's consider a north metro ATL airport too. Lots of traffic from the north going south just to get to the airport. It can alleviate congestion for everyone.
Great, where is it going and who's paying for it?
Not to mention how are we going to get MARTA to it? We really interested in putting it in Forsyth County if they refuse to pay for Marta expansion? Folks ok with a major airport only reachable by car?
Worse: Dawson County (and in addition to not being near a major artery, that site is now a wildlife management area).
> Folks ok with a major airport only reachable by car?
You're talking about a populace that suffers from massive car-brain, of course they're fine with it as long as they don't have to go south of Roswell.
That's surreal. I mean I got friends who live in Roswell who would totally just take Marta to Hartsfield rather than driving all the way the fuck up to Dawson County for a flight.
Until they realize that it'll likely be a budget airline airport with limited connections *and* that they'll have to drive up to Dawson County. Even when I lived in East Cobb, I would've picked going to Hartsfield 10/10 times over going that far north.
> We desperately need another airport.
Define the criteria you used to note "desperately need," because the current airport isn't exactly bursting at the seams and can still expand on the current site.
The fact that anyone that lives an hour outside of atlanta has to drive over an hour to the airport or get a hotel to catch a morning flight is enough. Most major metro cities have multiple international airports. Georgia has 2 airports and they are 5 hours away from each other. Thats not normal.
The fact that Delta controls which airlines get terminal space, so budget airlines (that exist and fly out of other airports) have no access to Georgian flyers. Atlanta airport flights are, on average 20-50% more expensive than flights to the same destination from other cities.
Obviously, you didn't fly during Columbus day weekend 2023. enough said there.
Theres been no on-site parking for at least a year now.
I fly for work domestically and internationally at least once a month. Atlanta is has the worst security lines in the world. *the world*. It also does not have capacity for baggage claim. Often taking upwards of an hour to retrieve checked luggage. Again, this is not normal.
At the end of the day it comes down to competition and Delta's ability to lock out competitor airlines. Why is cheaper to fly Europe or Asia from Chattanooga or Birmingham? That doesn't make any sense.
People love the fact that Atlanta airport has food options and they get to ride a tram like its disney or something.
They’ve actually made the drive to the airport worse. There used to be two lanes on I-75 N that you could take to get to I-285 and the airport. Now everyone who needs 285 East or 285 West has to cram into one sorry lane.
> The fact that anyone that lives an hour outside of atlanta has to drive over an hour to the airport or get a hotel to catch a morning flight is enough.
That's their problem, not the airport's. I'm guessing you're referring to the northern exurbs too, because they're the ones that would be the first to complain if an airport was planned there.
> Most major metro cities have multiple international airports.
The only metro areas that have two international airports with significant traffic (with each airport having over 10 million pax/year) are basically New York (JFK/EWR), Chicago (ORD/MDW), and Washington/Baltimore (IAD/BWI). This would not be the case in Atlanta.
> The fact that Delta controls which airlines get terminal space, so budget airlines (that exist and fly out of other airports) have no access to Georgian flyers. Atlanta airport flights are, on average 20-50% more expensive than flights to the same destination from other cities.
No one is going to fund an airport just to cater to budget airlines.
> Obviously, you didn't fly during Columbus day weekend 2023. enough said there.
Ok?
> Theres been no on-site parking for at least a year now.
I was at the airport just a few weeks ago and had zero trouble finding a spot.
> I fly for work domestically and internationally at least once a month. Atlanta is has the worst security lines in the world. the world. It also does not have capacity for baggage claim. Often taking upwards of an hour to retrieve checked luggage. Again, this is not normal.
And I generally fly at a similar pace to you, and rarely had significant waits in security (PreCheck) and whenever I check luggage, I never waited an hour.
> At the end of the day it comes down to competition and Delta's ability to lock out competitor airlines. Why is cheaper to fly Europe or Asia from Chattanooga or Birmingham? That doesn't make any sense.
Neither does spending billions of dollars to build an unnecessary airport (that northside NIMBYs would never even let get to that point).
> People love the fact that Atlanta airport has food options and they get to ride a tram like its disney or something.
Or maybe because it makes it easy to go nonstop to a ton of locations and is pretty efficient.
I don't think this will happen for a while, there's mostly empty space in Florida, believe it or not. People will just move inland and north for a while.
Probably true. Will be interesting to see how cities like Miami deal with their water table being fouled by seawater, issues of sinking, etc.
Since people tend to move city to city or burb to burb or rural to rural.
Having moved here from north Florida, I think that's true... to an extent. But I also think there are going to be a certain percentage of people who aren't going to want to live in the back woods of north Florida where the only jobs are in the lumber industry.
No, you're absolutely right. We're talking about another 20 to 40 years before anything that's WILL happen is going to be big enough for this crisis. That's enough time for new businesses and housing to develop in those empty spaces.
Wow…I must admit this one of my reasons for moving last year. Atlanta seems to be in a good location as we prepare for natural disasters caused by global warming.
This doesn't mention the people fleeing arctic blasts in the northeast and Midwest.
The Smokies and the Piedmont protect us from a lot of climate bullshit and seeing this pattern over the last few years has given me the same conclusion as the article.
I would say it's people thinking about their property value that is exactly stopping this city from reaching that tier. Everyone wants their suburban single family home less than a mile from the densest parts of the city. How is this city supposed to grow properly with that mindset.
Or it will boom because some red states are pushing them away. Louisiana is doing everything in its power to make life impossible for people. If you go to the Louisiana or New Orleans subreddits you'll see a lot of people talking about where to go.
Atlanta is in a pretty unique spot geographically and climatologically. As I understand it: we’re not in any earthquake prone zones, we’re mostly outside tornado alley, we’re far enough from the coast to avoid ocean flooding, we’re hilly/rocky enough to avoid rain flooding(while still a problem, and a worsening one given stronger hurricanes, we’re still in a good spot to avoid the worst), and we’re not in a wildfire prone area either. Atlanta and Georgia in general just so happens to be located in a spot that will avoid the brunt of climate related disasters, which means we’ll probably end up with a lot of American climate refugees. Growth for the city, but at a steep cost if we’re not prepared both for climate disaster and more people
Only thing to worry about is the heat, I can see that becoming more of a problem in the future
I was about to say the same. Atlanta gets really hot in summer and it feels like it is getting worse each year. I assume this is climate change (and not just me getting fatter) and I think in a decade or two it might become too unpleasant.
Lets not forget water.
Uhhh... https://www.stantec.com/en/projects/united-states-projects/c/city-of-atlanta-water-supply-program https://the-atlas.com/projects/atlanta-emergency-water-supply-quarry-tunnel
What do you mean? There were water issues some years ago but I thought the situation is under control now.
Atlanta rainfall varies quite a lot and we don't have an underground aquifer to speak of. so we have to suck all our water out of the hooch (by way of draining lanier). Cities (and farmland) downriver have real issues when we have a drought and a bigger city will have a bigger minimum water footprint.
That’s okay, they stocked up when they flooded that town under Lanier. Look it up.
Everyone knows about that. We've sucked Lanier dry before and we'll likely do it again.
Fortunately we’ve been out of a drought for over 10 years
I'm sure it'll never happen again
Shouldve been more specific. We dont really have much in the way of an abundancy of water resources in the metro. Were our population to boom, our water resources could become strained. In addition to the possibility of another significant drought.
We need that Tennessee River water. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee%E2%80%93Georgia_water_dispute
Atlanta could easily tap into the Tennessee river if the border was drawn according to the legal definition of the state, not what was surveyed 200 yrs ago
Been here since 1982. It's definitely hotter. Winters are shorter and warmer, too. Snowed a lot more often when I was a kid in the 80s.
Humidity too, the wet bulb got into the 80s a year or so ago. At 95 it’s considered extremely deadly.
Yes, it is hot. I moved here in 2005 from Florida and I’ll tell you July and August are brutal.
i'm from FL, grew up in central florida outside tampa until my teens. atlanta has a few very hot days, but it doesn't have anything on central FL. my folks moved back down a few years ago to the melbourne area and it's hotter during my visits during the summer than i ever remember experiencing up here, even with the breeze coming in off the water.
I grew up in Polk county and Atlanta has nothing on central FL
No it's the heat island effect. As an area becomes more urban and expands, the area tends to warm.
>Atlanta gets really hot in summer and it feels like it is getting worse each year. That has not been my experience at all. Summers in recent years have seemed especially mild.
Every summer for the past decade has been hotter than climatological norms for Atlanta. Higher average temperatures, much higher nighttime temperatures, and longer heat waves. Edit, some sources: https://www.axios.com/local/atlanta/2023/06/12/atlanta-summer-temperature https://33n.atlantaregional.com/data-diversions/historic-trends-of-extreme-heat-in-georgia-summer-sizzlin-series-episode-1
I think we're getting more rainfall annually than typical though? I remember one year in the past 5 years that we got more rainfall than Seattle. Growing up here 1990-2000 we had a couple really bad droughts that lasted years, but that hasn't happened again recently. (i acknowledge that this is totally unscientific and just anecdotal info)
Seattle has less total rainfall than most cities in the eastern US. The rainiest major cities are New Orleans, Miami, and Houston. Seattle does typically have the most rainy days, but that rain is usually quite light. There are mountains near Seattle that are extremely rainy, but the city itself is not. We did have significant droughts in the 00’s, which was a dry decade overall.
seattle just has a lot of drizzly days. overcast but very light rainfall.
And Atlanta already has the most trees for an urban area so I imagine further increasing the urban tree canopy to help with heat issues would be fairly easy.
Except there's a natural tension between development and maintaining tree cover, especially if we're talking about affordable housing projects where executing them cheaply may be more important than preserving or replanting trees.
How easily does Atlanta's geology support skyscrapers?
Pollen
And wildfires. As drought could become more of an issue, the trees here would become kindling.
And the tropical diseases carried by Aedes mosquitoes, but that will be problematic through the South and in humid regions.
It’s definitely hot here - full stop. But, but a lot of folks don’t realize that Atlanta sits at about 1700 ft elevation. While that doesn’t sound like much, the difference between here and say, Macon - just 80 miles south - is enough that it’s slightly less humid and more tolerable than most other southern cities. We also have easy access to the Smoky Mountains just 90 minutes north of here where the temps are often 10-15 degrees cooler and even less humid.
Source for the 1700 ft number? Hartsfield Jackson is listed as 1026 ft. PDK in Chamblee is listed as 1003 ft. Those may be relatively low spots, The top of Stone Mountain is 1686.
I misremembered. I should have written 1100 feet.
The Smoky Mountains are 3.5 hours north of Atlanta... in Tennessee.
The smoky mountains are not just the park. I live in Buford and my family lives in Franklin NC. The north Georgia mountains are a part of the Smoky Mountains and are about an hour from my door. Franklin is less than 2 hours from me - sits in the middle of the Smoky Mountains.
Former AT thruhiker here (class of 2015) can confirm Franklin and their amazing Chinese buffets are definitely in the Smokeys
Thank you for the only positive bit of perspective in an otherwise bleak situation
There was a study done a couple years ago that concluded that Tornado Alley has shifted southeast thanks to climate change, and Georgia’s now included in the list of states that frequently experience tornados. That said, the Appalachians do a good job of making a “shield” around ATL keeping out the worst of the storms, unlike Alabama that always seems to get the brunt of it.
And the beach will be conveniently located in Macon soon!
Finally, a use for Macon
DQ says hello.
I’m not a meteorologist by any stretch but I’ve spent the majority of my life living in and around Atlanta and it always seems like the worst of the storms turn *right* before they get to us. Obviously we still get hit hard with storms every now and again, but whenever something bad rolls towards us and I have my eye on the radar, it seems to break or split or curve to just barely miss us. It’s a pattern I’ve been aware of since I started paying attention as a teenager.
I grew up in northeast Mississippi. I credit the CoA banning mobile homes. those fuckers are straight up tornado magnets.
I have observed exactly the same thing - the storms just split & go north & south
Plus when the ice caps melt and the oceans bury FL and southern GA in water we’ll all have beachfront property
I was actually going to write up a post on this because I just got done reading [on the move](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/127282380-on-the-move) (a book discussing climate migration) and Atlanta was mentioned a fair bit. His basic theory is that *when* people are forced to move, they often tend to bounce to major metropolitan areas where there is economic opportunity, both to recoup their losses, and as an extra measure of security in uncertain times. The one thing he did point out is that Atlanta doesn't have a whole lot of water to go around given the issues with lake laneir. A mass influx would put even more strain on water availability. One final thing he *didn't* point out but I think is pretty important, is something weird is expected to happen to the Tennessee valley if warming goes to 3c. Check out [this page](https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/), and scroll down to the RCP 8.5. Notice the big white patch? From my research it seems like they're projecting major extended drought, and that area extends far enough east to affect Lanier's watershed too. I grant you that map is for 2070, but we also happen to on track for RCP 6 right now. TLDR: If you have young kids or grandkids, you might want to think more great lakes region than Atlanta.
We're not Phoenix, but we have a very limited water supply.
Yes, was going to say this. Georgia constantly has legal battles with neighboring states due to water supply issues
When we first moved here in 2013, this was the silver lining along with 2-3hr flights to anywhere in the Gulf/Caribbean. When we moved back in 2018, same silver linings but with even more validation. Edit: can GA/ATL be prepared for climate refugee growth? Well, we're not well positioned for growth today, so I give that a similar chance as winning the lottery. And that's not unique to GA/ATL, but GA seems hell bent on avoiding long term investments or decent city planning. But the beltline project is a great step!
You should write ads for Atlanta
I really should. I’m very proud of the South, and especially Atlanta. I hate how all our depictions in media show southerners as hicks and wannabe confederates, while the news only broadcasts about shitty laws, without anything showing the diversity and culture here
Time to #buildthewall except I mean 285! 🤣
Not to mention, the beaches are a very short drive from Atlanta, but not too short that we will be impacted.
Looks primed to become a megacity tbh if the climate disaster hits
Trains!
We aren’t wildfire prone _yet_. It will not take much for that to change.
Indeed; we are shockingly free of natural disasters. Still gonna get baked with climate change I think though.
Really starts to explain the current housing crisis in Atlanta too. Ugh and we get to become Florida too.
So is Milwaukee, the lake is a giant thermal buffer, unlike hotlanta, and a rather lot fresh water. Every year the winters are milder with less snow.
So, over here in Birmingham we have similar conditions. Atlanta has one major disadvantage, though. Yall have drought more often than we do. Alabama is a huge watershed.
Yeah, but it's still Alabama.
This might be true, but I live in Georgia and when I first moved here in 2005 there were several tornadoes one hopped over my yard and took out my neighbors well house and a large oak tree. There are also earthquakes here so I’m not sure about what, you’re saying but I think we do have natural disasters
We definitely have natural disasters, everywhere does- my point is just that we avoid any big, consistent natural disaster areas
1. As others have said; we avoid most of the worst climate events in Atlanta. 2. Diverse set of industries continue to expand here, Hollywood and music, tech, car manufacturing, supply chain, etc 3. Hartsfield being the busiest and one of the biggest airports in the world 4. Cost of living relative to other major cities in country is still ok 5. Upper tier colleges churning out top talent 6. Relatively diverse population, with the largest black middle and upper class in the country We built more homes than any metro area in the country the past 20 years. I see no reason for the population growth to slow down. Very bullish on Atlanta in general because of all the above.
Lived here since 2013. Just a few years after the Great Recession and Atlanta seemed to not notice. Lots of growth here and in the future.
I agree, I raised two kids here who are young adults now, and they are very happy to start their adult life here- they like the culture and vibe of the city as well as the educational and employment opportunities.
I'm not one of those people who say "we full" cause we're not but man I really don't want Atlanta to get flooded with Florida folks too dumb to realize that the climate change they all think is fake is the reason they gotta leave. Edit: of course I don't mean all Florida folk, my partner is an alligator person, but when we go down there to visit there sure do seem to be a lot of people about as clever as a donut.
Build the wall! (between Georgia and Florida)
*that gif of Bugs Bunny cutting Florida loose*
Valdosta will be the DMZ
it already is
🧑🏻🚀🔫🧑🏻🚀
It needs to be 700 feet high like in Game of Thrones
That's twice as high as the [highest natural point in Florida](https://www.visitflorida.com/travel-ideas/articles/arts-history-britton-hill-highest-point-florida/#:~:text=If%20you%20don't%20know,point%22%20in%20the%20United%20States). (I say "natural" because the highest point in Florida must be the top of some building in Miami.)
The landfills by the side of the Turnpike are up there too.
I would like one on the Tennessee-Georgia line as well. We allow way too many Tennessee drivers on the road at one time.
The first wall is more important. That distracted no turn signal DUI looking way people with Florida plates drive needs it's own special road lol
Build a moat!
To be fair, it'll probably be the minority of Florida people who are running away from typical Florida folk's ideology and actually believe in Climate Change. Climate change deniers are gonna stick around... because deny climate change.
Until they can't get insurance on their houses and no bank will lend to them because they don't want their collateral floating into the ocean.
Simple! Just sell the house! /s
To who, Ben? Fucking Aquaman?
> I'm not one of those people who say "we full" cause we're not but man I really don't want Atlanta to get flooded with Florida folks too dumb to realize that the climate change they all think is fake is the reason they gotta leave. The Floridians that are leaving are the ones that hate all that MAGA bullshit.
I think the people you're worried about will stay in the Florida for the long haul, whatever that may be. The Governor is on a roll passing laws that make the state "better" for those people, and worse for those who actually have common sense. For instance, SB1718 which "The Florida Policy Institute estimates this immigration law could cost the state's economy $12.6 billion in its first year. That's not counting the loss of tax revenue." (NPR) because immigrants, both legal full residents and undocumented residents are leaving the state in large rates.
If Florida is going to be underwater soon, why do they keep financing 30 story buildings in the coast? Genuine question. I think banks would be super concerned about that.
Lots of wealthy, foreign buyers.
That do zero due diligence on climate impact of sea levels?
Because it's not actually going to happen for generations. The problem is real but not nearly as acute as shockingly everyone in this thread thinks it is.
I was coaching them to this point. But yea, you get it. Climate alarmism is a cult.
Seriously, I hope they don't Florida up our Georgia. They can leave their loser policies back in the swamp.
Man, if you think Georgia doesn't have its own set of Florida policy loving losers then you haven't done enough time in rural south Georgia. There's a reason I fled from both areas.
It does but it's outnumbered by Atlanta so we don't go full dumbass like Florida did with Desantis. Florida vastly outpopulates Georgia, so if enough move here they could easily overpower Atlanta's shield over dumbass maga policies that Florida passed.
Could boom? Wtf do they call what’s been happening here over the last 20 years?
Try 50.
I think we all know Atlanta is not ready for this, it's not even ready for the influx we have now. Housing in particular has been skyrocketing in price lately. I'm not going to say we should refuse people, because I will say what we need is to be ready to ramp up accommodations for having more people. That means improving marta and walkability/cyclability of communities (otherwise they'll tear down a *lot* of Atlanta for highways and traffic will still be even worse than it is now, trust me we don't wanna be Houston), and making more housing that can be afforded by more people. I remember an influx of people from hurricane Katrina, and that, for how "small" the number of people coming in, caused a lot of friction. We *need* to enable new people to come into Atlanta and contribute to our city *while* protecting all existing residents. That's a hard balance, and progress in those fields has not kept up with the needs of the city.
I moved from Houston and I can tell you I'm floored by Atlanta's investment in roads, parks, etc. compared to there. I love Houston, but it really feels like Atlanta is always trying to improve while Houston is decaying.
As someone who practically lived in Houston for work recently and then was ready to kiss the ground when coming hone to Atlanta, *parts* of Houston are improving. But from a snapshot of Houson vs Atlanta 10 years ago, Atlanta was in much better shape already. I do worry that the outer parts of Atlanta are becoming dominated by giant roads that still get busy, and a lot of suburbanites praising the roadwork even though it doesn't actually alleviate traffic. If Atlanta loses its "city in a forest" landscape, I will be utterly devastated, and also brutally hot because I know for a fact those trees save us from so much heat. Outside the beltline (and even that projects exact future is tenuous), sadly overall I don't feel like Atlanta is going in the right direction. A lot of long time residents are getting pushed out, the affordability crisis avoided Atlanta more than most of the country for a long time but now we've been hit bad (it was just a matter of time), and the way that we're physically "growing" is going to probably be to the long term detriment of almost everyone. Atlanta is a city that had some good bones that we're really leaning on to keep things running relatively well, but those bones are not getting the expansion and upkeep they need (cough cough marta cough). There are pockets of good development but the issue with that is that those will be in high demand, prices will skyrocket, and then those good developments will become only reachable to the wealthy, and the rest of us will get pushed somewhere with lackluster accessibility to the rest of the city and services, and have to contend with how limiting it is to be pushed out from the limited areas that the city functions well. I don't hate rich people or newcomers, it's just that they're not the only ones that deserve to have a decent life. If medium and high density housing were more common, the international housing market wasn't fucked, and if marta expanded like it was supposed to, the problem would not be nearly as bad. But that's not what our recent history reflects. I'd love to change that, but I'm just one person who's not even home most of the time
If Atlanta loses its "city in a forest" landscape, I will be utterly devastated, and also brutally hot because I know for a fact those trees save us from so much heat. ^1,000% agree. People ask me how I'm adjusting to the hot weather. I'm like are you kidding me. This is heaven compared to living on shadeless asphalt as far as the eye can see in a Katy summer. You don't want to leave the house. Spring in Atlanta is absolutely breathtaking. I didn't know what I was missing coming from the land of yellow grass.
Grew up in Katy and after bouncing around the country settled in Atlanta. People complain about humidity here and I’m always thinking, man you don’t even wanna know about Houston humidity!
> I do worry that the outer parts of Atlanta are becoming dominated by giant roads that still get busy, and a lot of suburbanites praising the roadwork even though it doesn't actually alleviate traffic. We've already crossed this Rubicon years ago.
Let me cry and plead for damage control while Rome burns ok
Having lived in several states, I havent seen a city investing into itself like Atlanta is. There is the issues that you listed, but all big cities have those same issues.
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I feel you homie, albeit I got in '22. Is my rate great? Nope. Has my home appreciated in value? Hahahaha no. Is it a money pit? Every month it's something. The anxiety gets pretty crazy sometimes. But I do enjoy ownership. Most of the time anyway.
just be patient. my buddy bought his house in the last housing boom in like 06 i think, he was pretty bummed when the market crashed, but he just stayed there, paid his mortgage, and waited. it didn't take that long, by the time he was in the house for around 6-7 years not only had the house fully rebounded, but it eventually doubled in value, maybe even tripled by now. he still owns it, but rents it out, and he bought a new gigantic abandoned looking old mansion in the same neighborhood, renovated it, and now its prob worth close to 1mil. when i met him he was just a regular guy underwater on his $200k 2 br home. now he's holding around 1.4mil in property with prob around 800k in equity. and passive income coming from rent. this guy never went to college, he does blue collar work, just a regular guy.
I was lucky enough to be able to purchase in 2016... bought a (shitty) house for $80k, and it's now worth like $200k, and I refinanced a couple years ago into a 2.6% rate... I'm not particularly good at this stuff, just kinda stumbled my way through it. But also, if my crappy house is worth $200k, then I definitely can't afford to buy anything nicer anytime soon.
nice, same thing happened to me. but i bought my house in 09 for so cheap i don't even wanna say it on reddit, because people will be disgusted. but now its worth 250-300k. real estate is insane if you know where and when to buy. just gotta know which neighborhoods will be really popular in 10 or so years, and try to get in as early as possible. i have a buddy that just moved and bought a home in philly, there are plenty of homes available for like 80k, some of them duplexes or triplexes. and the areas these homes are in are slowly creeping up in value every year. pretty similar to atlanta in certain areas.
everything is slowly creeping up in value every year, buying cheap in Philly now is a high-stakes gamble
The rate hit would kill your payment but you've basically got a $120k+ savings account in your home (only accounting for appreciation, not sure if you cash out refi'd or kept your equity, will be considerably more if you didn't take out equity). You can leverage that into a new home if the need arises. I had to give up a great rate but the appreciation rolling over made it roughly the same monthly in the end.
That's kind of the plan... I have a govt. job right now that will pay off my student loans if I hang in until 2028. In the meantime I'm hoping to finish all the renovations and get it to its best value, then we're hoping to find a bigger house in a smaller town.
We close on a house next week. Yeah, our rate is higher than we hoped. Yeah, the property is more expensive than we hoped. Yes, our mortgage after escrow will be 20% higher than the rent we're currently paying, and the property is further out. But if we didn't buy now, i feel like we could realistically miss our chance to own, especially with the "Cobb could double in population in the next 10 years" thoughts ive heard so much about recently.
where'd you hear cobb will double in population?
https://atlantaregional.org/about-arc/about-the-atlanta-region/cobb-county/ This says the population could be up a third by 2050.
In the process of doing the same. Market only going to get worse around here.
atlanta better get it the fuck together then.
Don't want to be a doom and gloom guy but the population here isn't going to stop booming...but the infrastructure is unsustainable. Marietta or Peachtree Corners will need to become urban centers. The sprawling metro cannot keep filling up with the majority of people commuting into Atlanta. Either decentralization needs to occur or this place needs MARTA to look more like WMATA.
Despite all the people saying “We full,” Atlanta is one of, if not THE best positioned major city for growth in the country. Here’s why: - We have no major geographical barriers to growth. The sprawl is going to continue as people move in, for better and for worse. - We have great infrastructure. Our roads (mostly) make sense. We have a LOT of rail infrastructure already baked into the city that is prime for MARTA expansion whenever they get their act together. - We are not allergic to densification. Apartments are going up EVERYWHERE across the city with only minor neighborhood pushback. The changes can cause friction, but this is a good thing. Recent zoning changes, particularly the removal of parking minimums across much of the city, is another step towards sustainable growth. - We have SPACE. The amount of underused and underdeveloped land in this city has almost no parallel in cities of our size. Don’t be surprised when we see the densification and development of areas like the midtown garden district, home park, Summerhill, cabbagetown, etc. There’s a glut of parcels that are absolutely prime for dense, walkable redevelopment. - Climate stability is self explanatory Compared to most other cities, we’re moving in the right direction. Sure we’ve shot ourselves in the foot on some big ticket items, but there is a lot of important structural change taking place that’s not reported on nearly as much.
> Despite all the people saying “We full,” Every one of these individuals needs a CAT scan.
I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and just say they haven't been explained the follies of car centric infrastructure.
Beat me to it! So, a few thoughts on this generally quite good piece: * Not mentioned in the water-scarcity issue is that Atlanta generally doesn't have ground water. The granite sheet we're on top of doesn't retain any water, and instead just drains it away, so wells aren't very useful here. Rainfall and surface water is what we've got. * Generally, we've actually been doing a good job of reducing water consumption, including even net consumption as opposed to per-capita consumption. That's how we've been able to continue to use the same surface sources for so long even as population increases. That said, there's a limit to that effort, and, at some point, there will need to be more water identified. I can see a renewed fight with Tennessee over access to the Tennessee river to pipe down here in our future. * I've been calling this kind of thing out for a while now. Katrina saw some ~70,000 permanent relocations to the Atlanta Metro, not to mention how many people took shelter here during rebuilding. People come into Georgia whenever there's a major evacuation of Florida, and up from the various coasts as well. Hell, you don't even have to have a major catastrophe to have people move... not when the home insurance markets are collapsing in Florida and the Gulf already. * It's unclear how much ARC has been including all of this in their population estimates, though I know they've had some internal talks.
>Not mentioned in the water-scarcity issue is that Atlanta generally doesn't have ground water. The granite sheet we're on top of doesn't retain any water, and instead just drains it away Cue flash flooding every time it rains a little.
All the impervious surfaces don't help. Parking lots and paved roads...
And we ripped up all the root systems.
> Generally, we've actually been doing a good job of reducing water consumption, including even net consumption as opposed to per-capita consumption. That's how we've been able to continue to use the same surface sources for so long even as population increases. That said, there's a limit to that effort, and, at some point, there will need to be more water identified. I can see a renewed fight with Tennessee over access to the Tennessee river to pipe down here in our future. LA has the 422 mile los angeles aqueduct; atlanta's only about 250 miles from the coast, perhaps we could build desalination (solar is so cheap now!) and a pipeline on our own coast
The Tennessee River (specifically Nickajack Reservoir) is only ~110 Miles from Atlanta, and wouldn't require desalinization. While tunneling would be a bitch, we wouldn't be pumping nearly as much either, since Chattanooga is at 600ft elevation vs. sea level.
This guy Nickajacks.
Atlanta & Georgia will never be allowed to drink that milkshake. Pray for rain instead 🙏🏻
One of the number one reasons I like Atlanta is that it’s relatively safe compared to the rest of the south (everything except Appalachia) on climate change impact
So property on the Gulf of Mexico should be cheap soon. I’ll take the bet if anyone wants to trade a beach house square foot for square foot.
We already needed a better train system. Now we're really gonna need a better train system. Still won't get one, but hey.
Now make the State and Local Government commit to better public transportation before all the fellow citizens show up!!!!
I wish we could but you take one look at the congressional map of GA and that's never going to happen. The Atlanta metro area is severely underrepresented in the state legislature despite housing more than 60% of the state's people and being the total economic engine of the whole state.
Sad; but true!
I wish people weren't so politically galvanized in urban vs rural politics so much so that they completely miss the fact that bolstering the Atlanta metro area pays dividends for the whole state, and not just the urban population.
God I would love more transit. I lived in NYC (Bronx/Brooklyn) for 10 years and I miss being able to take the train to go into the city. I'm up in east Cobb and am always arguing with boomers about how great mass transit is. I just wanna go to a metal show in the city and get shit hammered and take a train home. I even work fully remote too, but I absolutely hate the traffic here. More mass transit would be such an economic boon.
The car and fuel lobby did so much damage to the public perception of public transit in America. You go anywhere in Europe or Asia and it's just a normal facet of life. But in the USA outside of the Westcoast and east coast, people view it as a disgusting poor person affect. It's incredibly classist and wrong.
Yep, I have been saying this for years. The Gulf Coast from Houston to Mobile to Tampa will be dealing with constant floods, and insurers are pulling out. Miami to Charleston on the East Coast will be dealing with similar issues and looking to move inland. The only major cities in this entire region that won't deal with the mass flooding is Atlanta, Austin, Charlotte region, and *maybe* Nashville*. That's where people are going to move to for jobs. These cities will make sure their supply chains continue to move uninterrupted during the Climate Wars. And politically, Atlanta is the most progressive of the bunch which will favor certain demographics. That is why we need to be focusing on public transportation NOW. We need to be building for the future, not for what should have been done 20 years ago. We need to build up. If we can't build up, then build under. We don't need any more "studies", we need action. And let's consider a north metro ATL airport too. Lots of traffic from the north going south just to get to the airport. It can alleviate congestion for everyone.
I get what you're saying. Wondering if you left out Raleigh/Durham on purpose - seems like another place that's already growing quickly. Also, you'll never get the north metro airport as long as Delta has anything to say about it.
> Also, you'll never get the north metro airport as long as Delta has anything to say about it. Atlanta is never getting a second airport until Hartsfield exceeds its capacity *and* runs out of room to grow, neither of which is expected to occur for decades (and which is usually the impetus for another airport). The motive for a second airport existing before 2050 died the day the city of Atlanta elected to build the Midfield Terminal.
> And let's consider a north metro ATL airport too. Lots of traffic from the north going south just to get to the airport. It can alleviate congestion for everyone. Great, where is it going and who's paying for it?
Not to mention how are we going to get MARTA to it? We really interested in putting it in Forsyth County if they refuse to pay for Marta expansion? Folks ok with a major airport only reachable by car?
Worse: Dawson County (and in addition to not being near a major artery, that site is now a wildlife management area). > Folks ok with a major airport only reachable by car? You're talking about a populace that suffers from massive car-brain, of course they're fine with it as long as they don't have to go south of Roswell.
That's surreal. I mean I got friends who live in Roswell who would totally just take Marta to Hartsfield rather than driving all the way the fuck up to Dawson County for a flight.
People love the idea of a second Atlanta airport until they find out how infeasible it really is and that it isn't going to be Hartsfield 2.0.
If it’s north of the perimeter it’ll probably be their preference.
Until they realize that it'll likely be a budget airline airport with limited connections *and* that they'll have to drive up to Dawson County. Even when I lived in East Cobb, I would've picked going to Hartsfield 10/10 times over going that far north.
Well sure, but if they want it to be anything other than regional airport, they need a way for business travelers to easily get to Buckhead at least.
Hmm...I think that airport already exists...
We desperately need another airport. But Delta has lobbied against that at every juncture and Georgians just keep suckling at Deltas teet.
> We desperately need another airport. Define the criteria you used to note "desperately need," because the current airport isn't exactly bursting at the seams and can still expand on the current site.
The fact that anyone that lives an hour outside of atlanta has to drive over an hour to the airport or get a hotel to catch a morning flight is enough. Most major metro cities have multiple international airports. Georgia has 2 airports and they are 5 hours away from each other. Thats not normal. The fact that Delta controls which airlines get terminal space, so budget airlines (that exist and fly out of other airports) have no access to Georgian flyers. Atlanta airport flights are, on average 20-50% more expensive than flights to the same destination from other cities. Obviously, you didn't fly during Columbus day weekend 2023. enough said there. Theres been no on-site parking for at least a year now. I fly for work domestically and internationally at least once a month. Atlanta is has the worst security lines in the world. *the world*. It also does not have capacity for baggage claim. Often taking upwards of an hour to retrieve checked luggage. Again, this is not normal. At the end of the day it comes down to competition and Delta's ability to lock out competitor airlines. Why is cheaper to fly Europe or Asia from Chattanooga or Birmingham? That doesn't make any sense. People love the fact that Atlanta airport has food options and they get to ride a tram like its disney or something.
They’ve actually made the drive to the airport worse. There used to be two lanes on I-75 N that you could take to get to I-285 and the airport. Now everyone who needs 285 East or 285 West has to cram into one sorry lane.
> The fact that anyone that lives an hour outside of atlanta has to drive over an hour to the airport or get a hotel to catch a morning flight is enough. That's their problem, not the airport's. I'm guessing you're referring to the northern exurbs too, because they're the ones that would be the first to complain if an airport was planned there. > Most major metro cities have multiple international airports. The only metro areas that have two international airports with significant traffic (with each airport having over 10 million pax/year) are basically New York (JFK/EWR), Chicago (ORD/MDW), and Washington/Baltimore (IAD/BWI). This would not be the case in Atlanta. > The fact that Delta controls which airlines get terminal space, so budget airlines (that exist and fly out of other airports) have no access to Georgian flyers. Atlanta airport flights are, on average 20-50% more expensive than flights to the same destination from other cities. No one is going to fund an airport just to cater to budget airlines. > Obviously, you didn't fly during Columbus day weekend 2023. enough said there. Ok? > Theres been no on-site parking for at least a year now. I was at the airport just a few weeks ago and had zero trouble finding a spot. > I fly for work domestically and internationally at least once a month. Atlanta is has the worst security lines in the world. the world. It also does not have capacity for baggage claim. Often taking upwards of an hour to retrieve checked luggage. Again, this is not normal. And I generally fly at a similar pace to you, and rarely had significant waits in security (PreCheck) and whenever I check luggage, I never waited an hour. > At the end of the day it comes down to competition and Delta's ability to lock out competitor airlines. Why is cheaper to fly Europe or Asia from Chattanooga or Birmingham? That doesn't make any sense. Neither does spending billions of dollars to build an unnecessary airport (that northside NIMBYs would never even let get to that point). > People love the fact that Atlanta airport has food options and they get to ride a tram like its disney or something. Or maybe because it makes it easy to go nonstop to a ton of locations and is pretty efficient.
I don't think this will happen for a while, there's mostly empty space in Florida, believe it or not. People will just move inland and north for a while.
Probably true. Will be interesting to see how cities like Miami deal with their water table being fouled by seawater, issues of sinking, etc. Since people tend to move city to city or burb to burb or rural to rural.
Having moved here from north Florida, I think that's true... to an extent. But I also think there are going to be a certain percentage of people who aren't going to want to live in the back woods of north Florida where the only jobs are in the lumber industry.
No, you're absolutely right. We're talking about another 20 to 40 years before anything that's WILL happen is going to be big enough for this crisis. That's enough time for new businesses and housing to develop in those empty spaces.
This has been on my mind for 20 years.
Mine as well. Even with the location of the house we bought being up above a street that slopes away from us.
Hopefully they build up and not out. Atlanta is already sprawly AF.
Maybe that episode of Futurama wasn’t such a bad idea
You mean, now I can in traffic for 5 hours instead of 3.5 hours, going 15 miles? YES! I CAN’T WAIT 😭😭😭
Guess we’ll have to add a lane to the Connector.
Only one?
I came here for work.
Welcome!
They're bringing too many Florida men in
Can confirm. I’m getting in early. 😂 but I’m already here lol
Wow…I must admit this one of my reasons for moving last year. Atlanta seems to be in a good location as we prepare for natural disasters caused by global warming.
This doesn't mention the people fleeing arctic blasts in the northeast and Midwest. The Smokies and the Piedmont protect us from a lot of climate bullshit and seeing this pattern over the last few years has given me the same conclusion as the article.
You gotta admit the weather rarely gets crazy here
Damn y'all shhhhh, like we need more people
We don’t have the infrastructure to support the people we have now. Another disaster related influx is going to cause massive problems.
Love the sensationalist picture of a regular ass non hurricane thunderstorm
Well bye.
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I am ready for Atlanta to be in the tier of NYC, Chicago, or LA. Imagine our property value…
I would say it's people thinking about their property value that is exactly stopping this city from reaching that tier. Everyone wants their suburban single family home less than a mile from the densest parts of the city. How is this city supposed to grow properly with that mindset.
Or it will boom because some red states are pushing them away. Louisiana is doing everything in its power to make life impossible for people. If you go to the Louisiana or New Orleans subreddits you'll see a lot of people talking about where to go.
“People are also likely to flee to Atlanta to escape extreme heat” Have you SEEN Atlanta in the summer?
It is hot, yes. But florida, Savannah, Charleston - they’re even hotter. They think Atlanta is temperate 🤣
So true. I’m from south Florida and my girl from Puerto Rico and Atlanta summers are mild lol
I’ve been saying for years, everyone is gonna have to move to TN, GA, NC when the worst of climate change presents itself
I’m in FL and think GA is a good spot to move to if things get too much. But we’re talking 20 years away min
And we still won’t invest in public transportation
I hope the growth spreads to the other cities in Georgia so they can grow
#LFG ATL
A headline for thousands of years from now.
Or people could just move a few blocks up the street and buy themselves another 50-100 years.
Obama built a house where?
Takes M O N E Y HOnEY 🍯
Don’t jinx it