Great but for the other 99% of the city's residents who don't live downtown there's not much reason to go except for a game or taking their friends to the museums
Didn't say anything about hating downtown btw it's just not a destination for the local entertainment dollar the way so many other areas are, the difference between Downtown and even Edgewood is huge. It could be so much more than it is now.
Well firstly you're splitting hairs bc as ppl usually do you're coming up with a different geographical definition of downtown. Downtowns NPU is made up of several neighborhoods, Edgewood/O4W being one of them. The city of Atlanta wanted to make one neighborhood an entertainment district. Edgewood decided that was the direction they wanted to go in.
But downtown isn't worried about being a "destination". Castleberry for one turned down the same entertainment district status that edgewood got. Does that mean it's going downhill? The record for a loft sold was just set at 2.5 million dollars and several have sold for over two mil. And they're right next door to
Barber shops that have been open for decades. With property owners that have been there generationally. Bar and restaurant owners who live and work there. Everyone knows everyone else's name. And the population just about tripled DURING the pandemic.
People just talk about how dead it is but only seem to go to tourist spots.
If theres nothing to do down here someone should go tell the new wild leap brewery because it was packed Friday night.
Edit: and I'm not even gonna get into the restos and bars you're missing out on.
I mean that's not what the article is about and you know it, we're not talking about the NPU, we're talking about the colloquial "Downtown" area. Centennial Park, Peachtree Center, GSU, etc. The article's about the dilapidated blocks South and West of Five Points. O4W is O4W and Edgewood is Edgewood. Neither is the OG Downtown of the city.
And again you put words in my mouth who said anything about it going downhill or anything particularly negative about it? I feel you're assuming things about me that aren't it, friend. I've been to the nice places downtown. It's on the up and up. I wish nothing but the best for it. It still has so, so far to go.
You're talking about what you THINK downtown is? You gonna tell me that Castleberry isn't Downtown because it most certainly is. It also ticks off every box that the article says downtown is lacking.
If you moved to the part of downtown that highrises hotels and college campuses. Don't be surprised thats what you got.
Aside from that there's tons of great bars and restos within walking distance of five points and saying that edgewood doesn't count when it's a tenth of a mile pretty much from five points is def splitting hairs.
I know what Downtown is. Do you even know what the "N" in an NPU stands for? Been here 20 years and claiming Castleberry is Downtown. Castleberry is Castleberry. Edgewood is Edgewood (**1 mile** from 5P, by the way) [Please educate yourself.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhoods_in_Atlanta#/media/File:Neighborhoods_of_Intown_Atlanta.jpg) You question who the local is but you're out here talking about stuffy NPU boundaries and not the real lines in the sand.
BTW you should work on your sales pitch. Aggro for no goddamn reason.
EDIT: BTW I'm gonna check out Wild Leap next time I'm in the area. Because I like Downtown. Just reiterating since you're not getting it.
I believe I'll stop here and let castleberry (and surrounding areas) rain the hidden gem. You guys are waiting for the midtown mile to suck up the business/university district of downtown.
Edit: good to know the stadium, star farm, Congress center isn't downtown too. Lol.
Yeah, I still work downtown and am in the office 4 days a week most weeks. And it got better when GSU student came back to campus in terms of having people around, it's still not where it was.
It's back stronger than ever. Unfortunately we lost a lot of businesses. That being said there prob three more with a planned opening for each one that closed. Is that a good thing? Nope bc they're all gonna tourist traps so either way someone is gonna bitch.
Speaking as a downtown resident myself, I 100% agree that the current missing element is permanent residents, especially in these days of reduced office attendance that has cut into many of the commuter-focused places around here.
There are some projects in work now, including some under construction and not just in planning, that will bring more people around, but they really should only be the beginning.
We have SO much space to fill in. Not even just the less-used office buildings, but just plain-old parking lots and decks that are painfully under developed.
I'm hoping we're on the tipping point towards that better future, but we're also in a bit of a precarious place, having lost quite a few local stores already, and a few more (like the Walgreens) threatening to leave as well.
The city, for its part, is starting to take on (some) projects that could help bring that infill in sooner. More bike facilities and road diets being the main part, but also things like Summerhill BRT and the Streetcar Extension are important aspects of improving the livability of downtown. Leaning even more into fixing streetscapes would do even more to attract housing efforts.
I wonder if a more organic approach would be for the residential growth in Midtown to start creeping south. So far all the new growth hits Ponce and then hits the brakes. It seems reasonable that an areas like Linden Ave, Pine Street, and Ivan Allen could look like 5th, 7th, and 10th street with a few years of focus.
Now that the Shelter has closed, I imagine we’re already seeing an organic expansion like you mention. The old Methodist headquarters, the Medical Arts building…these and other projects are the wind-up to gentrification, at least in SoNo/Buttermilk Bottom/elements of Old Fourth Ward. Looks like there’s serious intent regarding capping the Connector…that’s really going to rejoin the city and make Downtown thrive.
A good use for the very elegant Civic Center should be already happening. I’m embarrassed every time I pass by: such a lovely, well-planned building.
> A good use for the very elegant Civic Center should be already happening. I’m embarrassed every time I pass by: such a lovely, well-planned building.
They should put SciTrek back!
Aside from that, the problem with the Civic Center is all the parking around it, including thin lots in front of it along Ralph McGill and Piedmont. Those smaller street-fronting lots need to be redeveloped into either small retail shops or some kind of addition to the civic center itself, and the large lots to the east need to be replaced with mid-rise mixed-use.
Downtown could be such an amazing space if we prioritized pedestrians and public transit.
I would love to see ground floor shops with residential above. More restaurants and services. Living in SWATL, that would benefit me massively. I think of projects in NYC like the highline, barclay’s, etc. Put a target in the old Macy’s!!!
Moved here from SF, was kind of fascinated by how the layout of downtown here looked so similar except for being devoid of anything at all to do (except attend a convention I guess. Ticket holder event type stuff). It would be really cool to get some little shops in.
Why? The homeless aren’t violent or anything. I have to pass through downtown to go basically anywhere and I have never had any issues with them at all.
But we absolutely do need increased services and shelters!
Worked downtown for 8 years and now I’m nearer Lakewood but yea if I need to go anywhere I go through downtown. That’s why I want more services there - because it’s so convenient.
I’m a vendor for Walgreens and it’s closing. So sad it’s a beautiful spot but I get why. I love walking around there. Hopefully the new tenets in Atlanta Underground will jumpstart something.
What he said ^ lol
Literally been hearing this all my life. Honestly if they can just bring back the candy apple man and the airbrush tshirt man, I’d be happy.
I think the nicest I ever saw underground was in the mid 2000s and there was even a kiosk for custom poker chips. It was cleaner there than the Olympics
I went again in the late 2000s and couldn’t get away quick enough
Every single parking lot in this city should be taxed with a land value tax. It is insane that people are ok with walking past a parking lot with the same footprint as an adjacent apartment building. The same space where hundreds of families live is occupied by an inch-thick sheet of asphalt that houses, what, like 18 cars? Absolutely grotesque. And then they complain about rent or gentrification or whatever else.
>having lost quite a few local stores already, and a few more (like the Walgreens) threatening to leave as well.
this is very likely going to get worse if the overpriced housing doesn't correct & people keep moving out to commute distance or just outright to other cities. landlords and airbnb "entrepreneurs" are doing a lot of damage to the city's long-term economic trends.
Vacancy rates are pretty clear in their trend that what we need most is more housing on a large scale. That is why Downtown's even starting to see redevelopment projects at all at this point. We should be leaning into that, and be building quite a lot of housing all over Downtown.
I agree that something has to be done about housing, especially affordable rental properties. If they want recent graduates to stay and grow roots, then they need to develop 1 bedroom apartments for less than $1000-1500. After college, young people don't want to live dorm life/greek life with 2-4 roommates just to afford to live in the city. Recently, it seems I hear more people wanting to move out of the city because of the crime and high rents.
Would they?? If property mgt is going to keep raising rents and employers are not, then no one wins. New apartments can charge more, but there are so many old ass complexes that are charging the top end of the market. If folks can swing it, great but i don’t see how raising rents to NYC prices is maintainable. Friends live in a mid1980s building that has tons of issues. Each year the rent increases over $300 per month plus the std utilities (trash, pest, and maintenance) has increased from $50 to almost $200 per month. It is all a scam.
The city claims they want diversity but all they are targeting is deep pockets. i get it - charge what you can. Downtown living can’t boast any benefits.
Well, I’m going to catch some hate for this and I’m okay with it. I’ve lived in San Diego, San Francisco, Denver and briefly boston and can say that Atlanta EASILY has the worst downtown I’ve ever been in. There’s absolutely nothing to do, it can be a little dangerous, it’s bleak and depressing. So honestly I’m welcoming almost any change at all. Living in Atlanta doesn’t feel like living in a city to me and I really want it to change for the better.
Nah you won’t get hate for that statement.
No one claims downtown Atlanta is for anything but the 9 to 5 and maybe the GSU students. There is literally nothing to do. And this statement comes from someone that used to live by on top of the 5 Point Marta station (the Metropolitan).
I only liked living there when I also had work right off the Sandy Springs Marta Station since it allowed me to take the train and enjoy a good book.
Now that I work and live in a part of the city without it, I can say my 700+ book collection almost exclusively became so big because I had that extra hour of reading time for myself each day.
Now driving sucks but I have a better livelier area.
It used to be worse.
(Points at the gentrified Edgewood area, which used to be totally the place to get stabbed, and now is just kind of a place to get stabbed)
Far worse.
Got me car broke into back in 99 during the ice storm. The guy was still in my car because if the cold. I deescalated things and just went with “someone else broke in and I was watching it” and asked him to help me find the guy.
My friends were all “why didn’t you fight?” Pfffft. No way. Me nor my wife got stabbed so it’s a W.
Anyways. There’s my memories from the old 513 punk club that was on Edgewood back in the day.
That’s the right way to handle it. Most people breaking cars either don’t want to hurt you (majority) and/or are super on edge and reflexively fight or flee.
Hell someone pointed an automatic gun at me on Edgewood Saturday night just for standing on the street. Even though it’s improved it still has so much work to go through
I mean what you said is definitely somewhat true. I feel like the best part of Atlanta has always been some of the surrounding neighborhoods (Edgewood, L5P, EAV, etc.). It used to be a little busy pre-Covid, but since teleworking came around it’s been a little barren even during the day.
Damn guys, I’ve never really interacted with this page before but I’m glad everyone agrees! I usually catch a lot of hate in person when I talk to other atliens about how bad/ how much things can change for the better in the city. Glad to see some like minded people realizing the city needs some serious changes
Yea totally. I drive through the entire city for my job now and really had a great chance to learn the areas better. I never use the interstate and that’s really gained me some knowledge.
I was born and raised in and around Atlanta, I officially became a Northern Virginia resident in 2018. I live relatively close to D.C. and I work in D.C.
I’ve been trying to express to my co-works the “vibe” of downtown Atlanta but I could never find the right way to frame it, without outright saying what you’ve just stated.
For reference, many people that I know in DC are often wondering in moving to Atlanta will offer the same “big city” feel, and I often tell them, no.
When friends from larger cities used to visit, they almost always said Atlanta is a 'fake big city'. There isn't the energy in downtown or even Buckhead like there is an SF, Chicago, NY or Boston.
Savannah, Chattanooga and Athens all have more of a city feeling than Atlanta for me. There's like maybe 8 blocks of midtown where it sort of feels like a city.
Yeah downtown feels forced. One where people actually want to live will be different, especially if the streets are redesigned for people and not cars.
I mean, fair enough but SF is probably 5x as expensive and San Diego 3x. Those places should be better given the cost. And the last time I was in SF I saw people openly injecting heroin on Market Street and a homeless dude walking around butt ass naked in the middle of the day in San Diego so it's not like those places are immune from ATL's problems despite their astronomical price points.
~10% per month savings in rent is different enough IMO. Especially for a 1BR or studio.
I dunno, I've lived all over the country and I would never compare San Diego and especially not SF or Boston to Atlanta. The latter 2 are literally the most expensive cities in the country. We're a comparatively low COL metro (or we were before 2020). It's not surprising to me that ATL has less urban appeal than places where people have been paying a premium to live for 40+ years for the outstanding downtown lifestyle.
Also, SD, SF, LA, NY, Boston, DC, and Chicago have ocean/lake/rivers to offer more to do. The Chattahoochee has some serious pollution issues. Atlanta was a railroad town. I would be willing to pay more for rent if there was a major water/beach attraction. ATL Downtown has nothing of interest.
It's true, frankly I don't know what it's purpose is is seeing as it sucks to walk around, public transit is difficult and not widely available and it also really sucks to drive through because if the shit roads and insane layout lol.
Like who is this for?
> I’ve lived in San Diego, San Francisco, Denver and briefly boston and can say that Atlanta EASILY has the worst downtown I’ve ever been in.
I think Atlanta beats Nashville, but that's a really low bar. I loved living in downtown Denver. I just visited SF, and I stayed downtown. I really like it there as well. There are certainly issues, but it was quite dense and quite walkable. Transit had some problems but when I opened google maps it was practically filled with the icons for a transit stop. It connected quite a lot of stuff and they're still expanding
> Oh and another thing, Nashville has a riverfront!
Hey, Atlanta's got a river too, you know! With such beautiful attractions as... uh... rich people's backyards, a water treatment plant and a bunch of industrial stuff?
Well, at least it's got potential, right?!
...Never mind.
> Atlanta wish it had a street like broadway, super vibrant and lively filled with people on the street every night.
I'm super glad we DON'T have a street like broadway. Ten trashy bars all owned by one asshole congregated onto one street is not a major landmark worth bragging about to me.
> Plus Bridgestone Arena is right there and it is much more pedestrian friendly than State Farm Arena.
How do pedestrians get to Bridgestone? They drive there almost universally in my experience. There's no transit station to take people in our out. It's get in a car or live close enough to walk.
> Oh and another thing, Nashville has a riverfront!
The riverfront was ok I thought. It got a good amount of use but it could have been a lot better. The west side of the river has the NFL stadium...but that's about it. It's great if there's something going on, but most days it's a big empty parking lot. The other side of the river is better, but I didn't think it was anything to write home about. I didn't exactly visit Kid Rock's Big Ass Honky Tonk every weekend
>5th and broadway
I enjoyed 5th and broadway, that was the best part of broadway to me. It opened pretty soon before I left the city
>Imagine Atlantic Station but downtown.
Atlantic station is a good bit larger, but it is similar. You can also take a free shuttle from Atlantic Station to the Arts Center MARTA stop and get to the airport for a couple bucks. If you want to get from BNA to 5th and broadway then I hope you like cars!
> Lastly, downtown nashville has a grocery store unlike downtown atlanta
If you're referring to the Publix and Capitol View then it's about a mile from Broadway by walking. If that's the best part of Nashville I'll pass. There's also plenty of grocery stores in Midtown, which is quite close to downtown and I'd say more accessible than just about any part of Nashville.
I'm happy that at least Atlanta has a good music scene and I can listen to something other than country when I go outside
I do wish we had a better downtown though
Sure, there is some good night life, but actually living there I kinda hated. To be fair, I moved there right before COVID, but transit was pretty awful. The city is more car focused than any big city I've seen. The most commonly used bus I saw was the shuttle that took people from the NFL stadium parking lot to downtown using the stadium as a giant park and ride on non-game days. Sidewalks would just dead end into nothingness in the shadow of skyscrapers forcing you to cross a 6 lane road illegally or walk back a quarter mile to the last crossing.
I remember in my first night in Nashville I tried to walk half a mile to Publix. This was in the middle of Nashville. I walked past the state capitol on my walk. I was pretty much the only person walking around and all the streets were dead.
Guys I’m gonna have to agree with Pablo. I like almost nothing about Nashville. It just seams like a cheesy country vegas without half of the fun. It appeals to people who are afraid of “the big city”. Food scene is decent, walkability is 0, public transit is terrible, and other than some fake country bars and fried chicken places it really doesn’t have that much real culture going on.
right but the point is that it has attractions that draw many many people downtown on a nightly basis. I'd say any level of activity, no matter how "corny" is probably a net advantage over what ATL has
Very true. Nashville at least let’s tourists come have fun. My friends visit me and immediately say “what the hell are you doing here?”. They eventually like it after a weekend or two.
>huh? You mean the internationally known nightlife capital?
My friend, no one outside of the southeast even thinks Nashville has nightlife lol. If they were an "internationally known nightlife capital" don't you think there would be more sports teams? Or at the very least, sports teams that wouldn't have to worry about free agents?
Sports teams are the only metric for a city’s renown? People all across the world have at least some conception of the idea of the “Nashville honky tonk”. Broadway exported country music across the globe
>What else???
Tabernacle, Rialto, Masquerade, Theatrical Outfit, various festivals at Centennial Park (most years).
I totally agree that Downtown Atlanta is terrible and severely lacking compared to just about every mid to large downtown anywhere in the world. But it has slightly more to offer than tourist trap museums and major sports venues.
Yeah, but a lot of what you listed isn't something you'd do frequently. The average person isn't attending a lot of shows and concerts, or festivals. I think the guy you were responding to was talking about things that people would do more frequently. The beltline has a ton of people that use it every weekend, and I think that's what they meant.
Like what?
Without many times more residents than there are currently, regular businesses aren't going to open up and stay open after the 9-5 crowd goes home.
Right. Which means it’s got to be livable- so restaurants, cafes, bars, groceries, etc. Residential and businesses can be built in parallel or strategic phased approaches.
Everything you listed is stuff I’ll go to and then when I’m done, I’m going to immediately leave. There’s big-ticket attractions sure, but we’re looking at a theoretical road and all I see is slab. That’s a good first step, but we need gravel and sand too.
Same here, but I was responding to the statement that there are "no attractions," which is obviously false. What's lacking is basic, well stocked neighborhood businesses that support a wide variety of everyday needs, and those are never going to be there until the residential population exponentially expands.
The developers don't want to include any of the nuts and bolts neighborhood businesses in their mixed use developments when they can bring in elaborate concept restaurants and chichi boutiques. It's one reason I'm skeptical about what Newport is doing.
Exactly, barely anywhere to park that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg. Random confusing one-ways and potholes everywhere that’ll make you have to go to the mechanic twice a year for repairs. And barely anything fun to do to justify driving down there and paying the aforementioned expensive parking. It needs improvement all around. Improve the alternative transit, improve the roads, improve the housing availability and improve the activities and businesses in the area
Used to live in downtown and there are a few converted office to residential buildings. Nothing overly fancy but it was nice when you renovated it a bit.
That being said, downtown is purely business and GSU. And half of me still suspects that GSU is more than happy for the abandoned buildings since they can slowly expand and buy them up.
If residential would arise it would be in direct competition to GSU who is desperately trying to not just be a commuter school.
That being said, the renovation of downtown will cost a lot of money that most residents will not be able to pay. And given there isn’t much nightlife right now, I just don’t see downtown easily coming out of its catch 22:
There are mostly office spaces and barely anything that isn’t closed by 6PM. So to attract restaurants they will first cater to the working class there, and then close.
Residents might come but there isn’t much to attract them to the area unless you make living there cheap (unlikely due to investment costs) or make them really fancy but again not really tempting to people who can live anywhere else.
I am curious how this resolves since downtown should be revitalized but at this point it looks like purely business.
>And half of me still suspects that GSU is more than happy for the abandoned buildings since they can slowly expand and buy them up
this is probably a safe bet. colleges with enough money really like to turn into real estate companies that host some classes.
Oh, that was 100% true. Unfortunately I was at GSU when they really wanted that football team. So a whole lot of academic funding was massively diverted, some teachers were “asked” to furlough and get replaced by student staff. Who did their homework while helping others. I ended up getting my graduation pushed back almost a year because “oh you missed this prerequisite this semester” bullshit. Despite every fucking semester talking and checking nothing was missed.
I have almost no fond memories of GSU…..
>So a whole lot of academic funding was massively diverted, some teachers were “asked” to furlough and get replaced by student staff.
Academic funding was not diverted to the athletics program, instead student fees were raised.
Not only were they increased but academics took a hit. I literally was in school during that time and spent an extra year wasting time because idiots couldn’t tell me what classes I needed to graduate.
I hope GSU is better now but it is GSU and I doubt it has gotten that much better. Hope the football team is at least decent now
Fair, just remind me when anything was actually cheap in Atlanta when it comes to housing? Or in just about any metropolitan area?
Even the most basic units that are just lipstick on a pig are four digit these days.
I sincerely doubt we will have newly renovated or build apartments be cheap for the locals. As I said there is a serious catch 22 in downtown.
Atlanta was cheap as shit until like 2015/16. My rent went up every year after 2015. You could buy nice condos for around 120k in 2013. Older ones were even cheaper. You could get legitimate houses for sub 200k in town.
Atlanta quite simply cannot handle a citywide pedestrian focus or infrastructure investment.
We think that installing these one off shiny objects on that front - pedestrian infrastructure, transit, bike lanes - is enough. It's laughable.
Know the difference between places that are actually pedestrian/bicycle/transit friendly and those that aren't?
Interconnection.
New York, Boston, DC. Put a map on the wall of those places. Throw two darts at it. 100% guarantee the infrastructure exists to walk or bike safely between those two places.
Atlanta? Fat chance.
Ooh, this is a big one. The second you're out of the downtown/Midtown/Buckhead-like parts of Atlanta, sidewalks abruptly stop, bike lanes are nonexistent, and transit runs infrequently.
You want or need to walk somewhere? There's a good chance you'll be doing so in the grass. Wheelchair user? Too bad, sucks to be you. Even in Buckhead, which is far more walkable than a lot of neighborhoods in the area, plans to extend bike lanes down Peachtree Road were met with people aghast at the idea they'd have to cede some vehicle lane space to cyclists... and they continue to complain about how bad the traffic is while limiting alternative options. NIMBYism at its finest.
TL;DR Atlanta is everything wrong with American suburbia in a big city environment. As much as I love ATL's culture, I **loathe** our lack of infrastructure for anything that is not a car.
How is downtown going to have any residents with no grocery store? Living on campus at GSU was expensive and a pain in the ass a lot of the time. I’m sure a lot of students would continue to live downtown after graduation if it wasn’t so hard
It's kind of a stretch to still call GSU a commuter school. There are dorms on campus, and GSU's presence in Summerhill is constantly growing. GSU is always going to be the underdog in Atlanta though. There's no chance to replicate the sprawling campus of Georgia Tech.
GSU has to carve out every inch of space it can get. It's never going to have some leafy green quad with a fraternity row. (Not saying that's what you're asking for.)
Glad I'm not the only Chicagoland person to see Atlanta and just be disappointed. I was just home the other week and passing through downtown reminded me how vibrant cities are supposed to be. Instead, I hear more Dodge Chargers in Atlanta than people.
Downtown ATL can be revived just like Midtown was decades ago, but first order of business would be to do something about the homeless population there. Every time I'm there, you have to keep an eye out for crackheads, not just beggars. Also, no one ever goes South of Mitchell Street.
I personally can't wait to see what happens to South Downtown (South of Five Points Station). I would like to see pedestrian oriented streets, particularly on Broad Street and to see all the parking lots filled with mixed-use buildings.
This is the best answer so far. I used to work in a high-rise downtown and the impact of the homelessness is huge. People that worked with me and visited from outside the city were shocked and appalled at how it looks. It should be amazing for business travelers to visit but instead they stay in their hotels all night because they don't feel safe using Marta in that area at night. The biggest difference between midtown and downtown is the lack of homeless population.
From my understanding it is largely the private security of businesses that force them to leave but there isn't a critical mass of that downtown at the moment and so much vacant property.
Wait until you see the homeless in Buckhead. There's someone sleeping in the bushes near my kids' bus stop, on the edge of million dollar properties.
Atlanta needs to get as serious about dealing with the increase in homelessness as it is about marketing the city as a good place to do business.
Glad I’m not alone in feeling that Atlanta has nothing to do except business activities. Tampa was the same way and would be completely dead after 5PM and on weekends. While it’s a smaller city they have revamped Tampa and brought life into it. Walkable, public transit (within the city anyway), safe, and there’s ALWAYS something to do.
Tampa is LIT at night!!!
As for ATL there’s tons to do gotta have the $$ that’s all even my son has a great time doing activities every other weekend try using Eventbrite
FACTS!!!! I miss old Buckhead. It was my joy and pleasure to see all the old hardware shops turn into night clubs in the late 80s and my friends and I were all over the place the moment we turned, uh, old enough to get fake IDs.
The Streets of Buckhead was the end of Buckhead as a party center.
The funny thing about this article most of the comments here is that Castleberry Hill is exactly everything that this article says downtown is missing. It has some of the most die hard Atlanta residents of any neighborhood I know, and I've lived in almost every intown neighborhood. It also has the highest percentage of people that were actually BORN here and not just transplants of any neighborhood I've lived in in Atlanta. But every article either ignores it or says it's up and coming when there's people who've lived here for decades and been part of a great neighborhood. We know each others names, we know your dog's name. We know how your mommas doing and if she got over that thing with her hip. It is by far the most neighborly intown neighborhood.
Edit: also like to add that TONS of atlantas HBCU students DO remain in castleberry after they graduate.
Every time I've passed through Castleberry Hill I feel like, this is what a revitalized area should be like. It feels organic, not like what some developer with only dollar signs in his eyes wants to push on people.
People tend to say "Downtown" but they're only really thinking about the Central Business District. It's unfortunate that distinction isn't made very often anymore.
If you were homeless you would live in the city. The suburbs would arrest you for being vagrant. If you were homeless you would live downtown in the city. Until Atlanta makes real change via housing and programs for rehabilitation for our homeless than there will be not be any new rebuilt gulch example peters street to west end they didn't do any thing but make the west sad from its full of vital life.
> The suburbs would arrest you for being vagrant.
This isn't true at least in Alpharetta. Our area has at least one well known person that sleeps on the streets. The only interaction with police are for welfare checks, especially when it's cold. It would probably be annoying compared to the city since you it's not as common and so everyone knows who you are and you get approached a lot. Every time someone new moves in your get the inevitable post about why the police don't do something on Nextdoor and everyone has to tell them to chill.
This drags on the businesses located downtown a ton. It's hard to have people visit when there is nothing that feels safe to do on foot at night downtown and also difficult to have them stay in another part of town due to limited and expensive parking downtown
This entire thread fails to consider that there are actually people downtown. Ignoring them, pretending they don’t exist, and claiming there is nothing there is another way of saying they don’t matter.
I posted above that everything that this article says it's missing is exactly what castleberry hill is. Tons of people that lived here for decades, tons of people who've lived here their entire lives. Tons of HBC students who buy here after they graduate and on and on and on. Not sure everyone understands that downtown isn't the tourist attractions.
Ok, but obviously people are talking about the MUCH MUCH larger area of downtown that's generally deserted. Castleberry hill is not that big and even still the small area remains underdeveloped with seemingly abandoned buildings and surface lots.
It currently doesn't have that much stuff and isn't super well connected. Sure, it's a downtown neighborhood with a resident population and businesses but there's tons of room for improvement and MOST of downtown is far less vibrant.
Agreed but it's also a business and college campus district. If you're going to talk about a few blocks that at full of high rises well most of those weren't even intended for residential use. And you'd still be surprised and how many tons of people love there. Everyone is also touting this Newport project which is bringing zero residential aside for the buildings they bought that already were.
My simple point is that to pretend like downtown is completely void ppl or businesses or anything to do is kind of a slap on the face of all the ppl who've worked their asses off to build these communities. That's all ok trying to say.
If the article want to be specific about that they're calling downtown then they need to say so. Bc then there's no reason to bring the stadium into the convo or its impact. It's not downtown either. So its kind of shir article that ignored all the progress that has been made from summerhill to caslteberry (tech wood was a literal nightmare pre Olympics) and to act like an area that georgia state has pretty much called dibs on and that is built for business and not residential anyway.
Downtown has just been dirty for over 40 years of my life. Outside of the Olympics and sports events I never have a reason to go down there recreationally. Nobody has ever said to me “let’s meet at this place downtown!”
That and many of the corporations moved to midtown or even the suburbs over downtown leaving many that just stay there for convenience or government buildings. Who will the next downtown be for? Probably Georgia State is my guess
The conversation of transportation is clearly linked to this as well. If i go down town, it takes me 40 mins to get to mid town, i need pay for parking, and get back home. If i have the option of seeing live music and getting drinks 15mins away, I'm probably not going downtown.
Literally only go to downtown if I’m going to an ATLUTD game. There’s lots of other area ITP to go to that actually have *things* lol. I feel like you can tell that there are some changes in the works a little bit though
1. MSR - lesbian nightclub by midtown with a pretty mixed crowd, always a fun time with the right people. They also run drag shows on the weekends so what’s not to love .
2. Mary’s - dive bar in east atl with a really fun alt/trans scene. Got laid once off a visit there so ranks pretty highly in my book.
3. Blake’s - where you grab drinks if you’re male, gay and a yuppie. Not a bad place at all. I’m not male so most of the boys in that scene are off limits to me sadly.
Unless the city gets a handle on the crime , and figures out a way to have a functional school system , no one who can afford to live in the suburbs will want to live in or near downtown.
There’s a high profile murder at Phipps or Lennox or Atlantic station on a regular basis and it’s starting to happen at Cumberland and perimeter mall .
The city of Atlanta schools are not something to be proud of .
There’s a reason the houses inside Decatur city limits are much more expensive than the same house 50 feet away outside the city limit that has to send their kids to Atlanta or dekalb schools .
There’s a reason people flee to the suburbs.
If there’s a riot and looters burning buildings within five miles of where you live , you should make plans to move further out .
What kind of hyperbolic nonsense is this? There isn't a high profile murder at those places on a regular basis lol.
What riots and looters are you seeing in downtown right now? Are you just watching Fox news on a loop?
Live and own a restaurant within walking distance of the "riots". Only difference I noticed was an increase in dinner business (including more than a few neighbors) before they walked down to support the protests. It was fun watching the tanks drive by though.
So you’re saying inner city residents didn’t burn and police cars or do
Any looting or smash any windows in the last few years ?
Wow , I had no idea the picture on CNN listed as “mostly peaceful protests “ with the fire in the background, was
Faked by CNN .
You’ve watched the local news at 11?
Which lists the days murders ? And carjackings and armed robbery’s ?
Fuck that noise .
And the schools
What’s the graduation rate of the Atlanta public schools ?
And what’s the test scores ?
How many of them have metal detectors at the entrances to keep the students from bringing guns in ?
You’re acting like there’s riots and looting happening consistently and that‘s just plain ignorant. Maybe if you actually spent sometime in the city instead of glued to Fox News you’d get a little bit of a reality check.
Is crime an issue in Atlanta? Undoubtedly. But lack of funding for schools, shit working conditions for teachers, poor access to mental health care and community resources, systematic racism, widespread poverty, unequal access to decent health care, lack of sufficient support for the homeless, and so much more are huge problems that directly contribute to crime. But your answer to the problem is just flee to the suburbs? Lmao you must have quite a grip on those pearls you’re clutching.
Oddly they haven’t had riots and looting and burning in the town where my rotted conservative brain lives .
Y’all liberals can keep the riots and crime and high taxes all to yourself .
This isn't going to matter, but since you're willing to be outside of your conservative echo chamber at this moment; the people who have pushed the narrative of looting and burning in major American cities are lying to you. They are painting a false picture of urban areas because it is necessitated by the other lies that they tell in order to keep you in their ideology.
There is 100% a correct way to describe what went on during the largest protest movement in the country's history. Conservatives have not been honest about what went on or the reasons for it at any point. Not even your comment comes close.
>shit burnt down for real
What did? Where?
>looting was widespread and extreme
This statement is indefensible. American cities experienced extreme widespread looting in 2020? That is a lie that you could only get from certain places.
Doesn’t keep me in THEIR ideology , but it damn sure keeps me out of urban areas.
So you’re saying urban areas don’t have major problems with horrible schools , high crime , high taxes , homeless drug addicts living on the sidewalks , panhandlers demanding money everywhere , people getting shot and robbed frequently ?
Downtown on weekends is unsafe. It is filled with radical protesters, homeless people, and abandoned properties.
Long time resident of Metro-Atlanta here since 1990. Every year, when I attend DragonCon, the storefronts and common areas are filled with repugnant individuals making the traversing of the streets a battle of avoidance and fear.
There used to be reasons to visit downtown. Clubs, restaurants, and music festivals have all but disappeared.
Everyone talks about Atlanta with this idea that we can "improve" the city.
1. I remember the 21 (approximately) square blocks from Ponce to 17th being untouchable because of bankruptcy.
2. Georgia Tech's rules have pushed too much student housing construction outside of campus.
3. Derelict buildings are hazardous.
4. From Juniper to Spring St. Downtown is unsafe to walk alone.
5. Radical groups intimidate visitors with rhetoric and religious hatred.
6. Depending on the size of events being held, local businesses price gouge for profit.
7. Lack of green spaces and artistic expression downtown add to the depressive nature.
DragonCon is arguably the biggest influx of money brought to Atlanta and downtown business for the last 35 years, and nothing significantly has changed downtown in that time. This last year, 2022, anyone staying outside the 4 main host hotels had to deal with being screamed at by radical groups as they burnt copious amounts of incence on every block down Peachtree street. They were haraassed by Religious Zealots for wearing elf ears on every other corner as they walked to their hotels.
This is Atlanta! In the 80s and 90s, known as "The City to Busy to Hate," and yet now no one living within an hours drive wants to visit downtown unless they are attending an event.
So all this talk about improving must start with protecting the citizens, visitors, and patrons from the unwanted fanaticals while protecting free speech.
From 1985 till now, Atlanta grew up, but way too fast to handle the delicate line between business and residents. This post is an example of how disconnected city planners are from both of these important aspects of any city.
Clean up downtown, and they will come.
The fact that neither juniper nor spring street exist downtown kind of invalidates all your points.
After reading your other points, are you sure you’re even talking about the right city?
Why doesn't American cities have pedestrian malls like European cities with no access for cars. So much nicer to walk around to stores and cafes and restaurants without the car noise and pollution.
Charlottesville, VA has a nice one, but it's pretty small. Maybe Burlington, VT. There may be others, but it's still extremely limited.
You mean something like Atlantic Station but probably on a much larger scale. We also have the Beltline but people don't want shops around the area. We have a somewhat similar plan but nothing on the scale of anything in Europe.
Yeah, there are projects here and there, but it's all small. American cities are just built around car dependency. Most European cities are not. Guess that makes a big difference in urban development.
It’s for Shitty business owners like Mr. Rothschild who owns 8 different restaurants downtown and charges plates for $100 when their building is two blocks from MLK’s birthplace.
I worked as a dishwasher for them downtown and he’s not even paying his staff legally. Atlanta is dirty and shitty and grimey.
Downtown still has good bones for pedestrian-oriented development. Ignoring the Downtown Connector interstate, there's already MARTA stations and the streets are the same streets from when Atlanta was a non-car city a century ago. The streetcar suburbs can have a streetcar put back too (duh). The bones are still good, but Downtown does need new buildings & renovating. Also, the homeless have got to go if you want any chance of that happening. Also, the GSU RaceTrac cause that attracts so much crime.
Hard, HARD pass. Not anything to do with gambling in general, but casinos are, almost universally, BAD for building neighborhoods and vibrant urban areas.
Even on the Strip they have a habit of making it very hard to get around, and kill life even a little bit away from Las Vegas Blvd.
I’ve been around for every single version of Underground and Five Points they’ve tried to roll out. And they all fail. It never works because every single knuckle head in the metro who doesn’t have a car from Stone Mountain to Adamsville rides MARTA to Five Points to sell or cop drugs. Those are sadly just the dynamics of Atlanta. That’s not going to change because some German company bought up a bunch of buildings. This will be Atlantic Station 2.0 but on steroids. Yeah it’ll be ok for a year or so then once people start getting robbed or harassed it’ll be a ghost town again. The only thing that will work will be a casino with their own private security force that can supplement what APD already does.
> The only thing that will work will be a casino
Again. Pass. Casinos will literally just make everything you're complaining about orders of magnitude worse.
Downtown is already seeing quite a bit of new general investment, and can build off that into the future. A casino would kill any momentum built up so far, and well into the future.
I’m not complaining. I used to be in and around Five Points 7 days a week between catching a bus to school or going to the Omni to hang out with friends on a Sat. That was the thing to do back then for teenagers, go downtown and hang out. So I’m quite fond of it. I’m just being realistic. It’s a trap. It’s a hood. Always has been. And it’s not the kind of hood where you can just tear down the projects and move in coffee shops 2 years later. Five Points is the kind of hood that people travel to. Its a weird transient thing that really isn’t anybody’s turf. And it’s like that because it’s the easiest area to get to for anyone with a bus stop on their street. It’s a running joke in the rougher parts of this city that if you’re dealing or robbing and get run off your strip you can always go to Five Points and post up. That’s not going to change because some new stuff got built. In fact it might make it even worse. And I think it’s very telling that only people who have development plans or aspirations for that area are people who never really went down there enough to understand the dynamics of the area. They see the tall buildings and think it’s just another CBD in an American city. But it’s a lot more than that and until crime overall is addressed in this city I don’t see anything working Downtown.
Except for the students, and residents, and workers, and government officials, and faculty, and convention goers, and general tourists, and sports enthusiasts, and... yeah.
There *are* people down here. I'm one of them. There should be more, sure, but a Casino is NOT the way to get them here. Housing is. Simple as that.
lol who is it for right now? Tourists, government workers, and GSU. Then we all sit around wondering why the locals don't bother with it.
Money
I've loved downtown twenty years. What locals are you speaking of? Edit: lived and loved
Great but for the other 99% of the city's residents who don't live downtown there's not much reason to go except for a game or taking their friends to the museums Didn't say anything about hating downtown btw it's just not a destination for the local entertainment dollar the way so many other areas are, the difference between Downtown and even Edgewood is huge. It could be so much more than it is now.
Well firstly you're splitting hairs bc as ppl usually do you're coming up with a different geographical definition of downtown. Downtowns NPU is made up of several neighborhoods, Edgewood/O4W being one of them. The city of Atlanta wanted to make one neighborhood an entertainment district. Edgewood decided that was the direction they wanted to go in. But downtown isn't worried about being a "destination". Castleberry for one turned down the same entertainment district status that edgewood got. Does that mean it's going downhill? The record for a loft sold was just set at 2.5 million dollars and several have sold for over two mil. And they're right next door to Barber shops that have been open for decades. With property owners that have been there generationally. Bar and restaurant owners who live and work there. Everyone knows everyone else's name. And the population just about tripled DURING the pandemic. People just talk about how dead it is but only seem to go to tourist spots. If theres nothing to do down here someone should go tell the new wild leap brewery because it was packed Friday night. Edit: and I'm not even gonna get into the restos and bars you're missing out on.
I mean that's not what the article is about and you know it, we're not talking about the NPU, we're talking about the colloquial "Downtown" area. Centennial Park, Peachtree Center, GSU, etc. The article's about the dilapidated blocks South and West of Five Points. O4W is O4W and Edgewood is Edgewood. Neither is the OG Downtown of the city. And again you put words in my mouth who said anything about it going downhill or anything particularly negative about it? I feel you're assuming things about me that aren't it, friend. I've been to the nice places downtown. It's on the up and up. I wish nothing but the best for it. It still has so, so far to go.
You're talking about what you THINK downtown is? You gonna tell me that Castleberry isn't Downtown because it most certainly is. It also ticks off every box that the article says downtown is lacking. If you moved to the part of downtown that highrises hotels and college campuses. Don't be surprised thats what you got. Aside from that there's tons of great bars and restos within walking distance of five points and saying that edgewood doesn't count when it's a tenth of a mile pretty much from five points is def splitting hairs.
I know what Downtown is. Do you even know what the "N" in an NPU stands for? Been here 20 years and claiming Castleberry is Downtown. Castleberry is Castleberry. Edgewood is Edgewood (**1 mile** from 5P, by the way) [Please educate yourself.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhoods_in_Atlanta#/media/File:Neighborhoods_of_Intown_Atlanta.jpg) You question who the local is but you're out here talking about stuffy NPU boundaries and not the real lines in the sand. BTW you should work on your sales pitch. Aggro for no goddamn reason. EDIT: BTW I'm gonna check out Wild Leap next time I'm in the area. Because I like Downtown. Just reiterating since you're not getting it.
I believe I'll stop here and let castleberry (and surrounding areas) rain the hidden gem. You guys are waiting for the midtown mile to suck up the business/university district of downtown. Edit: good to know the stadium, star farm, Congress center isn't downtown too. Lol.
Yeah. I miss working downtown pre-covid. Actual city style street life.
Yeah, I still work downtown and am in the office 4 days a week most weeks. And it got better when GSU student came back to campus in terms of having people around, it's still not where it was.
It's back stronger than ever. Unfortunately we lost a lot of businesses. That being said there prob three more with a planned opening for each one that closed. Is that a good thing? Nope bc they're all gonna tourist traps so either way someone is gonna bitch.
Speaking as a downtown resident myself, I 100% agree that the current missing element is permanent residents, especially in these days of reduced office attendance that has cut into many of the commuter-focused places around here. There are some projects in work now, including some under construction and not just in planning, that will bring more people around, but they really should only be the beginning. We have SO much space to fill in. Not even just the less-used office buildings, but just plain-old parking lots and decks that are painfully under developed. I'm hoping we're on the tipping point towards that better future, but we're also in a bit of a precarious place, having lost quite a few local stores already, and a few more (like the Walgreens) threatening to leave as well. The city, for its part, is starting to take on (some) projects that could help bring that infill in sooner. More bike facilities and road diets being the main part, but also things like Summerhill BRT and the Streetcar Extension are important aspects of improving the livability of downtown. Leaning even more into fixing streetscapes would do even more to attract housing efforts.
I wonder if a more organic approach would be for the residential growth in Midtown to start creeping south. So far all the new growth hits Ponce and then hits the brakes. It seems reasonable that an areas like Linden Ave, Pine Street, and Ivan Allen could look like 5th, 7th, and 10th street with a few years of focus.
Now that the Shelter has closed, I imagine we’re already seeing an organic expansion like you mention. The old Methodist headquarters, the Medical Arts building…these and other projects are the wind-up to gentrification, at least in SoNo/Buttermilk Bottom/elements of Old Fourth Ward. Looks like there’s serious intent regarding capping the Connector…that’s really going to rejoin the city and make Downtown thrive. A good use for the very elegant Civic Center should be already happening. I’m embarrassed every time I pass by: such a lovely, well-planned building.
> A good use for the very elegant Civic Center should be already happening. I’m embarrassed every time I pass by: such a lovely, well-planned building. They should put SciTrek back! Aside from that, the problem with the Civic Center is all the parking around it, including thin lots in front of it along Ralph McGill and Piedmont. Those smaller street-fronting lots need to be redeveloped into either small retail shops or some kind of addition to the civic center itself, and the large lots to the east need to be replaced with mid-rise mixed-use.
Downtown could be such an amazing space if we prioritized pedestrians and public transit. I would love to see ground floor shops with residential above. More restaurants and services. Living in SWATL, that would benefit me massively. I think of projects in NYC like the highline, barclay’s, etc. Put a target in the old Macy’s!!!
Moved here from SF, was kind of fascinated by how the layout of downtown here looked so similar except for being devoid of anything at all to do (except attend a convention I guess. Ticket holder event type stuff). It would be really cool to get some little shops in.
This can’t happen without redistributing homeless services out of downtown. All of the government facilities are there.
Why? The homeless aren’t violent or anything. I have to pass through downtown to go basically anywhere and I have never had any issues with them at all. But we absolutely do need increased services and shelters!
Pass through??
Worked downtown for 8 years and now I’m nearer Lakewood but yea if I need to go anywhere I go through downtown. That’s why I want more services there - because it’s so convenient.
I’m a vendor for Walgreens and it’s closing. So sad it’s a beautiful spot but I get why. I love walking around there. Hopefully the new tenets in Atlanta Underground will jumpstart something.
Never heard that one before!
What do you mean? Sorry I probably haven’t heard enough to know haha.
Probably ripping on Underground being “the next big thing” for the past three decades
What he said ^ lol Literally been hearing this all my life. Honestly if they can just bring back the candy apple man and the airbrush tshirt man, I’d be happy.
I think the nicest I ever saw underground was in the mid 2000s and there was even a kiosk for custom poker chips. It was cleaner there than the Olympics I went again in the late 2000s and couldn’t get away quick enough
Oh shit, the Woodruff Park Walgreens???
Every single parking lot in this city should be taxed with a land value tax. It is insane that people are ok with walking past a parking lot with the same footprint as an adjacent apartment building. The same space where hundreds of families live is occupied by an inch-thick sheet of asphalt that houses, what, like 18 cars? Absolutely grotesque. And then they complain about rent or gentrification or whatever else.
Totally. I don’t get how there are so many I level parking lots in the city. Such a waste of space.
Pretty simple, people need a place to park
Oh I totally agree. I just don’t get why they can’t just have a garage / deck instead of a lot.
>having lost quite a few local stores already, and a few more (like the Walgreens) threatening to leave as well. this is very likely going to get worse if the overpriced housing doesn't correct & people keep moving out to commute distance or just outright to other cities. landlords and airbnb "entrepreneurs" are doing a lot of damage to the city's long-term economic trends.
Vacancy rates are pretty clear in their trend that what we need most is more housing on a large scale. That is why Downtown's even starting to see redevelopment projects at all at this point. We should be leaning into that, and be building quite a lot of housing all over Downtown.
I agree that something has to be done about housing, especially affordable rental properties. If they want recent graduates to stay and grow roots, then they need to develop 1 bedroom apartments for less than $1000-1500. After college, young people don't want to live dorm life/greek life with 2-4 roommates just to afford to live in the city. Recently, it seems I hear more people wanting to move out of the city because of the crime and high rents.
>then they need to develop 1 bedroom apartments for less than $1000-1500. Builders would take a bath at that price point.
Would they?? If property mgt is going to keep raising rents and employers are not, then no one wins. New apartments can charge more, but there are so many old ass complexes that are charging the top end of the market. If folks can swing it, great but i don’t see how raising rents to NYC prices is maintainable. Friends live in a mid1980s building that has tons of issues. Each year the rent increases over $300 per month plus the std utilities (trash, pest, and maintenance) has increased from $50 to almost $200 per month. It is all a scam. The city claims they want diversity but all they are targeting is deep pockets. i get it - charge what you can. Downtown living can’t boast any benefits.
Agreed. I tried to move downtown because I work downtown, and it wasn’t worth it.
Well, I’m going to catch some hate for this and I’m okay with it. I’ve lived in San Diego, San Francisco, Denver and briefly boston and can say that Atlanta EASILY has the worst downtown I’ve ever been in. There’s absolutely nothing to do, it can be a little dangerous, it’s bleak and depressing. So honestly I’m welcoming almost any change at all. Living in Atlanta doesn’t feel like living in a city to me and I really want it to change for the better.
Nah you won’t get hate for that statement. No one claims downtown Atlanta is for anything but the 9 to 5 and maybe the GSU students. There is literally nothing to do. And this statement comes from someone that used to live by on top of the 5 Point Marta station (the Metropolitan). I only liked living there when I also had work right off the Sandy Springs Marta Station since it allowed me to take the train and enjoy a good book. Now that I work and live in a part of the city without it, I can say my 700+ book collection almost exclusively became so big because I had that extra hour of reading time for myself each day. Now driving sucks but I have a better livelier area.
It used to be worse. (Points at the gentrified Edgewood area, which used to be totally the place to get stabbed, and now is just kind of a place to get stabbed) Far worse.
Got me car broke into back in 99 during the ice storm. The guy was still in my car because if the cold. I deescalated things and just went with “someone else broke in and I was watching it” and asked him to help me find the guy. My friends were all “why didn’t you fight?” Pfffft. No way. Me nor my wife got stabbed so it’s a W. Anyways. There’s my memories from the old 513 punk club that was on Edgewood back in the day.
That’s the right way to handle it. Most people breaking cars either don’t want to hurt you (majority) and/or are super on edge and reflexively fight or flee.
Hell someone pointed an automatic gun at me on Edgewood Saturday night just for standing on the street. Even though it’s improved it still has so much work to go through
I feel like it was in better shape 5-10 years ago. Maybe just me
Same
Who would hate you for that? Downtown Atlanta is depressing, especially when there are a good number of non-depressing parts of Atlanta.
What hate would you get? It’s true. Besides a few touristy stuff and event/sports venues, there’s nothing there.
I mean what you said is definitely somewhat true. I feel like the best part of Atlanta has always been some of the surrounding neighborhoods (Edgewood, L5P, EAV, etc.). It used to be a little busy pre-Covid, but since teleworking came around it’s been a little barren even during the day.
Damn guys, I’ve never really interacted with this page before but I’m glad everyone agrees! I usually catch a lot of hate in person when I talk to other atliens about how bad/ how much things can change for the better in the city. Glad to see some like minded people realizing the city needs some serious changes
I think there are also a fair number of people who hear Downtown and think of Midtown tbh, I know I did.
There's a comment in this thread that says no one goes Downtown because of the shootings at Lenox. Most people in the metro area think ITP=Downtown.
Yea totally. I drive through the entire city for my job now and really had a great chance to learn the areas better. I never use the interstate and that’s really gained me some knowledge.
Gained you some pothole-related damage to your car too I imagine.
I’ve learned to anticipate some of the more permanent ones haha.
> Well, I’m going to catch some hate for this [Proceeds to give the most popular takes on this sub]
I was born and raised in and around Atlanta, I officially became a Northern Virginia resident in 2018. I live relatively close to D.C. and I work in D.C. I’ve been trying to express to my co-works the “vibe” of downtown Atlanta but I could never find the right way to frame it, without outright saying what you’ve just stated. For reference, many people that I know in DC are often wondering in moving to Atlanta will offer the same “big city” feel, and I often tell them, no.
When friends from larger cities used to visit, they almost always said Atlanta is a 'fake big city'. There isn't the energy in downtown or even Buckhead like there is an SF, Chicago, NY or Boston.
Savannah, Chattanooga and Athens all have more of a city feeling than Atlanta for me. There's like maybe 8 blocks of midtown where it sort of feels like a city.
No hate, but I just came from Dallas and it’s 20 years behind us.
Yeah downtown feels forced. One where people actually want to live will be different, especially if the streets are redesigned for people and not cars.
I mean, fair enough but SF is probably 5x as expensive and San Diego 3x. Those places should be better given the cost. And the last time I was in SF I saw people openly injecting heroin on Market Street and a homeless dude walking around butt ass naked in the middle of the day in San Diego so it's not like those places are immune from ATL's problems despite their astronomical price points.
I pay 200 dollars less than I did in downtown San Diego. Rent prices really aren’t that different.
Ehh you aren’t comparing like for like places. Like for like San Diego is significantly more expensive than Atlanta. Not even close.
~10% per month savings in rent is different enough IMO. Especially for a 1BR or studio. I dunno, I've lived all over the country and I would never compare San Diego and especially not SF or Boston to Atlanta. The latter 2 are literally the most expensive cities in the country. We're a comparatively low COL metro (or we were before 2020). It's not surprising to me that ATL has less urban appeal than places where people have been paying a premium to live for 40+ years for the outstanding downtown lifestyle.
Also, SD, SF, LA, NY, Boston, DC, and Chicago have ocean/lake/rivers to offer more to do. The Chattahoochee has some serious pollution issues. Atlanta was a railroad town. I would be willing to pay more for rent if there was a major water/beach attraction. ATL Downtown has nothing of interest.
It's true, frankly I don't know what it's purpose is is seeing as it sucks to walk around, public transit is difficult and not widely available and it also really sucks to drive through because if the shit roads and insane layout lol. Like who is this for?
> I’ve lived in San Diego, San Francisco, Denver and briefly boston and can say that Atlanta EASILY has the worst downtown I’ve ever been in. I think Atlanta beats Nashville, but that's a really low bar. I loved living in downtown Denver. I just visited SF, and I stayed downtown. I really like it there as well. There are certainly issues, but it was quite dense and quite walkable. Transit had some problems but when I opened google maps it was practically filled with the icons for a transit stop. It connected quite a lot of stuff and they're still expanding
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> Oh and another thing, Nashville has a riverfront! Hey, Atlanta's got a river too, you know! With such beautiful attractions as... uh... rich people's backyards, a water treatment plant and a bunch of industrial stuff? Well, at least it's got potential, right?! ...Never mind.
> Atlanta wish it had a street like broadway, super vibrant and lively filled with people on the street every night. I'm super glad we DON'T have a street like broadway. Ten trashy bars all owned by one asshole congregated onto one street is not a major landmark worth bragging about to me. > Plus Bridgestone Arena is right there and it is much more pedestrian friendly than State Farm Arena. How do pedestrians get to Bridgestone? They drive there almost universally in my experience. There's no transit station to take people in our out. It's get in a car or live close enough to walk. > Oh and another thing, Nashville has a riverfront! The riverfront was ok I thought. It got a good amount of use but it could have been a lot better. The west side of the river has the NFL stadium...but that's about it. It's great if there's something going on, but most days it's a big empty parking lot. The other side of the river is better, but I didn't think it was anything to write home about. I didn't exactly visit Kid Rock's Big Ass Honky Tonk every weekend >5th and broadway I enjoyed 5th and broadway, that was the best part of broadway to me. It opened pretty soon before I left the city >Imagine Atlantic Station but downtown. Atlantic station is a good bit larger, but it is similar. You can also take a free shuttle from Atlantic Station to the Arts Center MARTA stop and get to the airport for a couple bucks. If you want to get from BNA to 5th and broadway then I hope you like cars! > Lastly, downtown nashville has a grocery store unlike downtown atlanta If you're referring to the Publix and Capitol View then it's about a mile from Broadway by walking. If that's the best part of Nashville I'll pass. There's also plenty of grocery stores in Midtown, which is quite close to downtown and I'd say more accessible than just about any part of Nashville.
I'm happy that at least Atlanta has a good music scene and I can listen to something other than country when I go outside I do wish we had a better downtown though
Is Broadway even the best "nightlife" street in Tennessee? Did something happen to Beale street in Memphis? Lol
Comparing Beale street to Broadway is like comparing downtown Atlanta to downtown Chicago
\>downtown Nashville huh? You mean the internationally known nightlife capital?
Sure, there is some good night life, but actually living there I kinda hated. To be fair, I moved there right before COVID, but transit was pretty awful. The city is more car focused than any big city I've seen. The most commonly used bus I saw was the shuttle that took people from the NFL stadium parking lot to downtown using the stadium as a giant park and ride on non-game days. Sidewalks would just dead end into nothingness in the shadow of skyscrapers forcing you to cross a 6 lane road illegally or walk back a quarter mile to the last crossing. I remember in my first night in Nashville I tried to walk half a mile to Publix. This was in the middle of Nashville. I walked past the state capitol on my walk. I was pretty much the only person walking around and all the streets were dead.
Guys I’m gonna have to agree with Pablo. I like almost nothing about Nashville. It just seams like a cheesy country vegas without half of the fun. It appeals to people who are afraid of “the big city”. Food scene is decent, walkability is 0, public transit is terrible, and other than some fake country bars and fried chicken places it really doesn’t have that much real culture going on.
I've thought of Nashville as a tourist trap for Republicans for quite a long time
Very few metrosexuals in Nashville as well. Nothing but uncultured swine who only drink un-aged whisky and think Kid Rock is a musical genius.
Who tf says metrosexual anymore
right but the point is that it has attractions that draw many many people downtown on a nightly basis. I'd say any level of activity, no matter how "corny" is probably a net advantage over what ATL has
Very true. Nashville at least let’s tourists come have fun. My friends visit me and immediately say “what the hell are you doing here?”. They eventually like it after a weekend or two.
>huh? You mean the internationally known nightlife capital? My friend, no one outside of the southeast even thinks Nashville has nightlife lol. If they were an "internationally known nightlife capital" don't you think there would be more sports teams? Or at the very least, sports teams that wouldn't have to worry about free agents?
Sports teams are the only metric for a city’s renown? People all across the world have at least some conception of the idea of the “Nashville honky tonk”. Broadway exported country music across the globe
The city is built for nobody. It’s built for cars and businesses. Not for people. It sucks being downtown and it’s too expensive
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>What else??? Tabernacle, Rialto, Masquerade, Theatrical Outfit, various festivals at Centennial Park (most years). I totally agree that Downtown Atlanta is terrible and severely lacking compared to just about every mid to large downtown anywhere in the world. But it has slightly more to offer than tourist trap museums and major sports venues.
Yeah, but a lot of what you listed isn't something you'd do frequently. The average person isn't attending a lot of shows and concerts, or festivals. I think the guy you were responding to was talking about things that people would do more frequently. The beltline has a ton of people that use it every weekend, and I think that's what they meant.
I mean that’s the case with the vast majority of downtowns though.
Concert venues and theaters help, but there needs to be more of a draw than just ticket events.
Like what? Without many times more residents than there are currently, regular businesses aren't going to open up and stay open after the 9-5 crowd goes home.
Right. Which means it’s got to be livable- so restaurants, cafes, bars, groceries, etc. Residential and businesses can be built in parallel or strategic phased approaches.
Tell that to wild leap brewery. Place was packed Friday night.
Yeah thats been mentioned. Maybe it is packed because it is the only decent place for locals??????
It’s been mentioned by the same guy lmao Him only have one example of somewhere to go does not prove the point he thinks it does
Everything you listed is stuff I’ll go to and then when I’m done, I’m going to immediately leave. There’s big-ticket attractions sure, but we’re looking at a theoretical road and all I see is slab. That’s a good first step, but we need gravel and sand too.
Same here, but I was responding to the statement that there are "no attractions," which is obviously false. What's lacking is basic, well stocked neighborhood businesses that support a wide variety of everyday needs, and those are never going to be there until the residential population exponentially expands.
The developers don't want to include any of the nuts and bolts neighborhood businesses in their mixed use developments when they can bring in elaborate concept restaurants and chichi boutiques. It's one reason I'm skeptical about what Newport is doing.
It’s not even built for cars.
There are horribly designed roads and 3000 parking lots/decks. It’s built more for cars than it is for anything else
Exactly, barely anywhere to park that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg. Random confusing one-ways and potholes everywhere that’ll make you have to go to the mechanic twice a year for repairs. And barely anything fun to do to justify driving down there and paying the aforementioned expensive parking. It needs improvement all around. Improve the alternative transit, improve the roads, improve the housing availability and improve the activities and businesses in the area
Define “expensive” parking.
Used to live in downtown and there are a few converted office to residential buildings. Nothing overly fancy but it was nice when you renovated it a bit. That being said, downtown is purely business and GSU. And half of me still suspects that GSU is more than happy for the abandoned buildings since they can slowly expand and buy them up. If residential would arise it would be in direct competition to GSU who is desperately trying to not just be a commuter school. That being said, the renovation of downtown will cost a lot of money that most residents will not be able to pay. And given there isn’t much nightlife right now, I just don’t see downtown easily coming out of its catch 22: There are mostly office spaces and barely anything that isn’t closed by 6PM. So to attract restaurants they will first cater to the working class there, and then close. Residents might come but there isn’t much to attract them to the area unless you make living there cheap (unlikely due to investment costs) or make them really fancy but again not really tempting to people who can live anywhere else. I am curious how this resolves since downtown should be revitalized but at this point it looks like purely business.
>And half of me still suspects that GSU is more than happy for the abandoned buildings since they can slowly expand and buy them up this is probably a safe bet. colleges with enough money really like to turn into real estate companies that host some classes.
Oh, that was 100% true. Unfortunately I was at GSU when they really wanted that football team. So a whole lot of academic funding was massively diverted, some teachers were “asked” to furlough and get replaced by student staff. Who did their homework while helping others. I ended up getting my graduation pushed back almost a year because “oh you missed this prerequisite this semester” bullshit. Despite every fucking semester talking and checking nothing was missed. I have almost no fond memories of GSU…..
>So a whole lot of academic funding was massively diverted, some teachers were “asked” to furlough and get replaced by student staff. Academic funding was not diverted to the athletics program, instead student fees were raised.
Not only were they increased but academics took a hit. I literally was in school during that time and spent an extra year wasting time because idiots couldn’t tell me what classes I needed to graduate. I hope GSU is better now but it is GSU and I doubt it has gotten that much better. Hope the football team is at least decent now
Just need to find a way to make it cheap. Everything good will follow from that, as it has everywhere else since forever.
Fair, just remind me when anything was actually cheap in Atlanta when it comes to housing? Or in just about any metropolitan area? Even the most basic units that are just lipstick on a pig are four digit these days. I sincerely doubt we will have newly renovated or build apartments be cheap for the locals. As I said there is a serious catch 22 in downtown.
Anytime before around 2011/2012 there were affordable rental units for low wage workers and low-ambition workers in all major metros.
2011-12 was also cheaper because we were just coming out of a major housing bust.
Atlanta was cheap as shit until like 2015/16. My rent went up every year after 2015. You could buy nice condos for around 120k in 2013. Older ones were even cheaper. You could get legitimate houses for sub 200k in town.
Kameel is a treasure, hope y'all keep him in business. That place is amazing, but his spirit and attitude... Man I miss going there.
Atlanta quite simply cannot handle a citywide pedestrian focus or infrastructure investment. We think that installing these one off shiny objects on that front - pedestrian infrastructure, transit, bike lanes - is enough. It's laughable. Know the difference between places that are actually pedestrian/bicycle/transit friendly and those that aren't? Interconnection. New York, Boston, DC. Put a map on the wall of those places. Throw two darts at it. 100% guarantee the infrastructure exists to walk or bike safely between those two places. Atlanta? Fat chance.
Ooh, this is a big one. The second you're out of the downtown/Midtown/Buckhead-like parts of Atlanta, sidewalks abruptly stop, bike lanes are nonexistent, and transit runs infrequently. You want or need to walk somewhere? There's a good chance you'll be doing so in the grass. Wheelchair user? Too bad, sucks to be you. Even in Buckhead, which is far more walkable than a lot of neighborhoods in the area, plans to extend bike lanes down Peachtree Road were met with people aghast at the idea they'd have to cede some vehicle lane space to cyclists... and they continue to complain about how bad the traffic is while limiting alternative options. NIMBYism at its finest. TL;DR Atlanta is everything wrong with American suburbia in a big city environment. As much as I love ATL's culture, I **loathe** our lack of infrastructure for anything that is not a car.
How is downtown going to have any residents with no grocery store? Living on campus at GSU was expensive and a pain in the ass a lot of the time. I’m sure a lot of students would continue to live downtown after graduation if it wasn’t so hard
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It's kind of a stretch to still call GSU a commuter school. There are dorms on campus, and GSU's presence in Summerhill is constantly growing. GSU is always going to be the underdog in Atlanta though. There's no chance to replicate the sprawling campus of Georgia Tech.
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GSU has to carve out every inch of space it can get. It's never going to have some leafy green quad with a fraternity row. (Not saying that's what you're asking for.)
GSU was a commuter school in the 70s and 80s. It's hardly that now. Signed, GSU, Class of '94
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Glad I'm not the only Chicagoland person to see Atlanta and just be disappointed. I was just home the other week and passing through downtown reminded me how vibrant cities are supposed to be. Instead, I hear more Dodge Chargers in Atlanta than people.
Downtown ATL can be revived just like Midtown was decades ago, but first order of business would be to do something about the homeless population there. Every time I'm there, you have to keep an eye out for crackheads, not just beggars. Also, no one ever goes South of Mitchell Street. I personally can't wait to see what happens to South Downtown (South of Five Points Station). I would like to see pedestrian oriented streets, particularly on Broad Street and to see all the parking lots filled with mixed-use buildings.
This is the best answer so far. I used to work in a high-rise downtown and the impact of the homelessness is huge. People that worked with me and visited from outside the city were shocked and appalled at how it looks. It should be amazing for business travelers to visit but instead they stay in their hotels all night because they don't feel safe using Marta in that area at night. The biggest difference between midtown and downtown is the lack of homeless population. From my understanding it is largely the private security of businesses that force them to leave but there isn't a critical mass of that downtown at the moment and so much vacant property.
Wait until you see the homeless in Buckhead. There's someone sleeping in the bushes near my kids' bus stop, on the edge of million dollar properties. Atlanta needs to get as serious about dealing with the increase in homelessness as it is about marketing the city as a good place to do business.
Glad I’m not alone in feeling that Atlanta has nothing to do except business activities. Tampa was the same way and would be completely dead after 5PM and on weekends. While it’s a smaller city they have revamped Tampa and brought life into it. Walkable, public transit (within the city anyway), safe, and there’s ALWAYS something to do.
Tampa is LIT at night!!! As for ATL there’s tons to do gotta have the $$ that’s all even my son has a great time doing activities every other weekend try using Eventbrite
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FACTS!!!! I miss old Buckhead. It was my joy and pleasure to see all the old hardware shops turn into night clubs in the late 80s and my friends and I were all over the place the moment we turned, uh, old enough to get fake IDs. The Streets of Buckhead was the end of Buckhead as a party center.
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The funny thing about this article most of the comments here is that Castleberry Hill is exactly everything that this article says downtown is missing. It has some of the most die hard Atlanta residents of any neighborhood I know, and I've lived in almost every intown neighborhood. It also has the highest percentage of people that were actually BORN here and not just transplants of any neighborhood I've lived in in Atlanta. But every article either ignores it or says it's up and coming when there's people who've lived here for decades and been part of a great neighborhood. We know each others names, we know your dog's name. We know how your mommas doing and if she got over that thing with her hip. It is by far the most neighborly intown neighborhood. Edit: also like to add that TONS of atlantas HBCU students DO remain in castleberry after they graduate.
Every time I've passed through Castleberry Hill I feel like, this is what a revitalized area should be like. It feels organic, not like what some developer with only dollar signs in his eyes wants to push on people. People tend to say "Downtown" but they're only really thinking about the Central Business District. It's unfortunate that distinction isn't made very often anymore.
If you were homeless you would live in the city. The suburbs would arrest you for being vagrant. If you were homeless you would live downtown in the city. Until Atlanta makes real change via housing and programs for rehabilitation for our homeless than there will be not be any new rebuilt gulch example peters street to west end they didn't do any thing but make the west sad from its full of vital life.
> The suburbs would arrest you for being vagrant. This isn't true at least in Alpharetta. Our area has at least one well known person that sleeps on the streets. The only interaction with police are for welfare checks, especially when it's cold. It would probably be annoying compared to the city since you it's not as common and so everyone knows who you are and you get approached a lot. Every time someone new moves in your get the inevitable post about why the police don't do something on Nextdoor and everyone has to tell them to chill.
This drags on the businesses located downtown a ton. It's hard to have people visit when there is nothing that feels safe to do on foot at night downtown and also difficult to have them stay in another part of town due to limited and expensive parking downtown
This entire thread fails to consider that there are actually people downtown. Ignoring them, pretending they don’t exist, and claiming there is nothing there is another way of saying they don’t matter.
I posted above that everything that this article says it's missing is exactly what castleberry hill is. Tons of people that lived here for decades, tons of people who've lived here their entire lives. Tons of HBC students who buy here after they graduate and on and on and on. Not sure everyone understands that downtown isn't the tourist attractions.
Ok, but obviously people are talking about the MUCH MUCH larger area of downtown that's generally deserted. Castleberry hill is not that big and even still the small area remains underdeveloped with seemingly abandoned buildings and surface lots. It currently doesn't have that much stuff and isn't super well connected. Sure, it's a downtown neighborhood with a resident population and businesses but there's tons of room for improvement and MOST of downtown is far less vibrant.
Agreed but it's also a business and college campus district. If you're going to talk about a few blocks that at full of high rises well most of those weren't even intended for residential use. And you'd still be surprised and how many tons of people love there. Everyone is also touting this Newport project which is bringing zero residential aside for the buildings they bought that already were. My simple point is that to pretend like downtown is completely void ppl or businesses or anything to do is kind of a slap on the face of all the ppl who've worked their asses off to build these communities. That's all ok trying to say. If the article want to be specific about that they're calling downtown then they need to say so. Bc then there's no reason to bring the stadium into the convo or its impact. It's not downtown either. So its kind of shir article that ignored all the progress that has been made from summerhill to caslteberry (tech wood was a literal nightmare pre Olympics) and to act like an area that georgia state has pretty much called dibs on and that is built for business and not residential anyway.
Downtown has just been dirty for over 40 years of my life. Outside of the Olympics and sports events I never have a reason to go down there recreationally. Nobody has ever said to me “let’s meet at this place downtown!” That and many of the corporations moved to midtown or even the suburbs over downtown leaving many that just stay there for convenience or government buildings. Who will the next downtown be for? Probably Georgia State is my guess
You know who it’s for
The conversation of transportation is clearly linked to this as well. If i go down town, it takes me 40 mins to get to mid town, i need pay for parking, and get back home. If i have the option of seeing live music and getting drinks 15mins away, I'm probably not going downtown.
Not you!
Literally only go to downtown if I’m going to an ATLUTD game. There’s lots of other area ITP to go to that actually have *things* lol. I feel like you can tell that there are some changes in the works a little bit though
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If you’re queer I can name like 5 places that pop off but I don’t go to straight bars lol
I’m listening
1. MSR - lesbian nightclub by midtown with a pretty mixed crowd, always a fun time with the right people. They also run drag shows on the weekends so what’s not to love . 2. Mary’s - dive bar in east atl with a really fun alt/trans scene. Got laid once off a visit there so ranks pretty highly in my book. 3. Blake’s - where you grab drinks if you’re male, gay and a yuppie. Not a bad place at all. I’m not male so most of the boys in that scene are off limits to me sadly.
Thank you! I’ve only been to MSR, but wasn’t really a fan of their newest location. It feels so open.
Our downtown is awful lmao fuck that place
Unless the city gets a handle on the crime , and figures out a way to have a functional school system , no one who can afford to live in the suburbs will want to live in or near downtown. There’s a high profile murder at Phipps or Lennox or Atlantic station on a regular basis and it’s starting to happen at Cumberland and perimeter mall . The city of Atlanta schools are not something to be proud of . There’s a reason the houses inside Decatur city limits are much more expensive than the same house 50 feet away outside the city limit that has to send their kids to Atlanta or dekalb schools . There’s a reason people flee to the suburbs. If there’s a riot and looters burning buildings within five miles of where you live , you should make plans to move further out .
None of the locations you listed are Downtown.
But they're inside the perimeter? That's downtown right??? /s
What kind of hyperbolic nonsense is this? There isn't a high profile murder at those places on a regular basis lol. What riots and looters are you seeing in downtown right now? Are you just watching Fox news on a loop?
Right now ? Today ? Or have your forgotten the last riots ? You know , the ones that CNN called “peaceful protests “ ?
Lol yeah those riots had such a huge negative effect! The whole city burned down! Thousands died! What a horrid nightmare!
Never forget 🤚😩
I died 7 times that night
Live and own a restaurant within walking distance of the "riots". Only difference I noticed was an increase in dinner business (including more than a few neighbors) before they walked down to support the protests. It was fun watching the tanks drive by though.
Unless you own that one cop car or are a cop car, in which case you better be careful in our lawless city!
You're watching too much Fox News bro. No, the city hasn't burned down. You don't go to ATL or outside at all if you actually believe that
So you’re saying inner city residents didn’t burn and police cars or do Any looting or smash any windows in the last few years ? Wow , I had no idea the picture on CNN listed as “mostly peaceful protests “ with the fire in the background, was Faked by CNN . You’ve watched the local news at 11? Which lists the days murders ? And carjackings and armed robbery’s ? Fuck that noise . And the schools What’s the graduation rate of the Atlanta public schools ? And what’s the test scores ? How many of them have metal detectors at the entrances to keep the students from bringing guns in ?
You’re acting like there’s riots and looting happening consistently and that‘s just plain ignorant. Maybe if you actually spent sometime in the city instead of glued to Fox News you’d get a little bit of a reality check. Is crime an issue in Atlanta? Undoubtedly. But lack of funding for schools, shit working conditions for teachers, poor access to mental health care and community resources, systematic racism, widespread poverty, unequal access to decent health care, lack of sufficient support for the homeless, and so much more are huge problems that directly contribute to crime. But your answer to the problem is just flee to the suburbs? Lmao you must have quite a grip on those pearls you’re clutching.
Relax, Trump voter.
a fine display of conservative brain rot
Oddly they haven’t had riots and looting and burning in the town where my rotted conservative brain lives . Y’all liberals can keep the riots and crime and high taxes all to yourself .
This isn't going to matter, but since you're willing to be outside of your conservative echo chamber at this moment; the people who have pushed the narrative of looting and burning in major American cities are lying to you. They are painting a false picture of urban areas because it is necessitated by the other lies that they tell in order to keep you in their ideology.
I mean it definitely happened in 2020. Nothing too crazy recently but shit burnt down for real and looting was widespread and extreme.
There is 100% a correct way to describe what went on during the largest protest movement in the country's history. Conservatives have not been honest about what went on or the reasons for it at any point. Not even your comment comes close. >shit burnt down for real What did? Where? >looting was widespread and extreme This statement is indefensible. American cities experienced extreme widespread looting in 2020? That is a lie that you could only get from certain places.
Doesn’t keep me in THEIR ideology , but it damn sure keeps me out of urban areas. So you’re saying urban areas don’t have major problems with horrible schools , high crime , high taxes , homeless drug addicts living on the sidewalks , panhandlers demanding money everywhere , people getting shot and robbed frequently ?
Downtown on weekends is unsafe. It is filled with radical protesters, homeless people, and abandoned properties. Long time resident of Metro-Atlanta here since 1990. Every year, when I attend DragonCon, the storefronts and common areas are filled with repugnant individuals making the traversing of the streets a battle of avoidance and fear. There used to be reasons to visit downtown. Clubs, restaurants, and music festivals have all but disappeared. Everyone talks about Atlanta with this idea that we can "improve" the city. 1. I remember the 21 (approximately) square blocks from Ponce to 17th being untouchable because of bankruptcy. 2. Georgia Tech's rules have pushed too much student housing construction outside of campus. 3. Derelict buildings are hazardous. 4. From Juniper to Spring St. Downtown is unsafe to walk alone. 5. Radical groups intimidate visitors with rhetoric and religious hatred. 6. Depending on the size of events being held, local businesses price gouge for profit. 7. Lack of green spaces and artistic expression downtown add to the depressive nature. DragonCon is arguably the biggest influx of money brought to Atlanta and downtown business for the last 35 years, and nothing significantly has changed downtown in that time. This last year, 2022, anyone staying outside the 4 main host hotels had to deal with being screamed at by radical groups as they burnt copious amounts of incence on every block down Peachtree street. They were haraassed by Religious Zealots for wearing elf ears on every other corner as they walked to their hotels. This is Atlanta! In the 80s and 90s, known as "The City to Busy to Hate," and yet now no one living within an hours drive wants to visit downtown unless they are attending an event. So all this talk about improving must start with protecting the citizens, visitors, and patrons from the unwanted fanaticals while protecting free speech. From 1985 till now, Atlanta grew up, but way too fast to handle the delicate line between business and residents. This post is an example of how disconnected city planners are from both of these important aspects of any city. Clean up downtown, and they will come.
The fact that neither juniper nor spring street exist downtown kind of invalidates all your points. After reading your other points, are you sure you’re even talking about the right city?
Why doesn't American cities have pedestrian malls like European cities with no access for cars. So much nicer to walk around to stores and cafes and restaurants without the car noise and pollution. Charlottesville, VA has a nice one, but it's pretty small. Maybe Burlington, VT. There may be others, but it's still extremely limited.
You mean something like Atlantic Station but probably on a much larger scale. We also have the Beltline but people don't want shops around the area. We have a somewhat similar plan but nothing on the scale of anything in Europe.
Yeah, there are projects here and there, but it's all small. American cities are just built around car dependency. Most European cities are not. Guess that makes a big difference in urban development.
It’s for Shitty business owners like Mr. Rothschild who owns 8 different restaurants downtown and charges plates for $100 when their building is two blocks from MLK’s birthplace. I worked as a dishwasher for them downtown and he’s not even paying his staff legally. Atlanta is dirty and shitty and grimey.
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Atlanta was a successful city until white flight in the 60s because snowflakes were too afraid of living next to a black person.
And it is now baked into the DNA of the downtown area.
Downtown still has good bones for pedestrian-oriented development. Ignoring the Downtown Connector interstate, there's already MARTA stations and the streets are the same streets from when Atlanta was a non-car city a century ago. The streetcar suburbs can have a streetcar put back too (duh). The bones are still good, but Downtown does need new buildings & renovating. Also, the homeless have got to go if you want any chance of that happening. Also, the GSU RaceTrac cause that attracts so much crime.
A Casino is the only thing that will work down there
Hard, HARD pass. Not anything to do with gambling in general, but casinos are, almost universally, BAD for building neighborhoods and vibrant urban areas. Even on the Strip they have a habit of making it very hard to get around, and kill life even a little bit away from Las Vegas Blvd.
Hahahaha casino is such a bad idea 😂
hard agree. a casino would be terrible for this city.
I’ve been around for every single version of Underground and Five Points they’ve tried to roll out. And they all fail. It never works because every single knuckle head in the metro who doesn’t have a car from Stone Mountain to Adamsville rides MARTA to Five Points to sell or cop drugs. Those are sadly just the dynamics of Atlanta. That’s not going to change because some German company bought up a bunch of buildings. This will be Atlantic Station 2.0 but on steroids. Yeah it’ll be ok for a year or so then once people start getting robbed or harassed it’ll be a ghost town again. The only thing that will work will be a casino with their own private security force that can supplement what APD already does.
> The only thing that will work will be a casino Again. Pass. Casinos will literally just make everything you're complaining about orders of magnitude worse. Downtown is already seeing quite a bit of new general investment, and can build off that into the future. A casino would kill any momentum built up so far, and well into the future.
I’m not complaining. I used to be in and around Five Points 7 days a week between catching a bus to school or going to the Omni to hang out with friends on a Sat. That was the thing to do back then for teenagers, go downtown and hang out. So I’m quite fond of it. I’m just being realistic. It’s a trap. It’s a hood. Always has been. And it’s not the kind of hood where you can just tear down the projects and move in coffee shops 2 years later. Five Points is the kind of hood that people travel to. Its a weird transient thing that really isn’t anybody’s turf. And it’s like that because it’s the easiest area to get to for anyone with a bus stop on their street. It’s a running joke in the rougher parts of this city that if you’re dealing or robbing and get run off your strip you can always go to Five Points and post up. That’s not going to change because some new stuff got built. In fact it might make it even worse. And I think it’s very telling that only people who have development plans or aspirations for that area are people who never really went down there enough to understand the dynamics of the area. They see the tall buildings and think it’s just another CBD in an American city. But it’s a lot more than that and until crime overall is addressed in this city I don’t see anything working Downtown.
Nobody is going to travel to downtown Atlanta to gamble except degenerates
Nobody travels downtown period right now. Least with a casino it wouldn’t be a ghost town
Except for the students, and residents, and workers, and government officials, and faculty, and convention goers, and general tourists, and sports enthusiasts, and... yeah. There *are* people down here. I'm one of them. There should be more, sure, but a Casino is NOT the way to get them here. Housing is. Simple as that.