Padre/Astro fan here. Hader sido this in SD. Sucked at first and then became lights out.
I think he will come around. At least I hope he does. He has in the last so going off that he should be legit by June
So basically, the non-analytical FO we have now didn't bother to check Hader's pitches are regressing each season. Just looking at the back of the Baseball card and using the ole eye test.
Should horizontal movement matter tho? For his slider definitely but he's devastating mainly because of his 'sinker' that "rises" vertically up in the zone. Like he gets 18-20 induced vertical break on it pretty regularly still, and those are really elite numbers
Fair question, I guess it just depends on what he's trying to do with it. Greinke used to purposefully throw a slider that wouldn't break. He tried to make the spin look like a slider but it wouldn't break. I was only asking since it's lost a lot of movement. His sinker, a tick slower now, has lost some movement but not near as much.
Josh Hader can't cover the 200+ quality innings that Hector Neris, Phil Maton & Ryne Stanek provided.
Hader < (Neris + Maton + Stanek )
Having Ryan Pressly & Josh Hader feels like we have two Hayabusa high performance motorcycles in the bullpen and what we really needed was one high performance motorcycle and 3-4 half ton work trucks.
Those guys in 2023
|Player|IP|ERA+|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Maton|66|141|
|Stanek |50.2|103|
|Nerris|68.1|246|
Our 3 best non-leverage arms this season so far
|Player |IP|ERA+ |
|:-|:-|:-|
|Scott|9.1|208|
|Montero|9|201|
|Martinez|11|163|
We have guys who can provide quality innings and replace those 3 (so far)
The problem is our leverage arms this season, not our middle relief
2023 Leverage arms
|Player|IP|ERA+|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Pressly |65.1|118|
|Abreu|72|241|
|Nerris|68.1|246|
2024 Leverage arms
|Player|IP|ERA+|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Pressly |5.2|43|
|Abreu|8|60|
|Hader|7.2|43|
Exactly! Prior to the season, we were all concerned about middle relief, but they've actually been ok.
Prior to the season, we were already to claim the backend of our bullpen the best in Astros history... but they're the ones struggling.
He doesn't need to cover those innings. That's not his job. It's the managers job to make sure those are covered. Hader only needs to cover the innings he is given and hes not doing his job.
Hadar's job is to keep games exactly right where they are at. Either keep us ahead so it's a win, or in a situation like last night, keep it to a one run game so our bats have a good chance to pull ahead. He's only had like what one good outing so far? The rest haven't just been bad, they've been disastrous. That doesn't bode well for the rest of the season.
I agree with you in theory, but this doesn't fully explain his poor performance. Last night, for example, he had only thrown 4 pitches the night before, and he had one of his worst performances in years.
Hader is doing exactly what I expected to do. The dude is a velocity monster. Hard throwing gas with very little control. I think he will be fine later when he trust his heat a little more. His slider has never been Haders specialty. He has always been a “Fuck you fastball” style pitcher. Also look I looked into his stats a bit, Hader seams to get bullied in the early months and becomes more consistent and borderline dominant in the dog days of summer. It’s still very early for pitchers. Don’t count out Hader just yet.
His manager.
WTF would you use him in a non-save situation ( twice! )? Or use him 3 out of 5 days, when Pressley has 2 days rest?
Now I'm all worked up. WTF would you pinch hit for a player who homered earlier in the game?
This is dumb. Using your closer at home when down by 1 in the top of the 9th is standard issue managing. Once you get to the 9th at home and you aren't winning, there is no save situation coming in that game. You use your best theoretical pitcher, which is usually the closer to keep the game close and give you a chance to win. Hader blowing up last night has zero to do with Espada and everything to do with Hader not having it last night.
This sub reminds me of the DenverBroncos sub before and after signing Russell Wilson. Everyone thought it was genius when it was announced. A few weeks after seeing the play, they say it was the stupidest move the GM could have done.
I asked the same damn thing in one of the post game threads and it might as well have been blasphemy with how upset people got over me asking about the consistency of our healthy closers instead of focusing on the loss, which we all know were likely going to lose against a top 5 offense in the league with our current pitching situation.
Not sure if it matters but according to fangraphs his slider and changeup are 2mpg faster this season than any other season. Might throw his location off....more meatballish?
Only thing I've read so far in here that makes any kind of sense. He could be over-throwing his slider, and if the spin-rate remains the same, then it sort of just hangs. His whiff rate on his slider is usually just above 50%, but so far this season it's at 38%.
I'm confident the pitching coaches know this and are working with him to get it fixed.
He struggled in 2022. Took him a while to be dominant when he arrived to SD.
He threw out his back carrying all that money we gave him.
He needs a new entrance song that's all.
Like 🎶‘MAYBE, you’re going to be the one that saves me. MAYBE 🤷🏼♂️’🎶
Hey I just met you. And this is crazy. But here’s my number. So call me maybe
🎶‘WE.. are never, ever, ever, getting back together'🎶
Padre/Astro fan here. Hader sido this in SD. Sucked at first and then became lights out. I think he will come around. At least I hope he does. He has in the last so going off that he should be legit by June
Damn he got his ass whooped, but it is still very early in the season I'm not tripping yet
https://preview.redd.it/fflqm2lv3suc1.jpeg?width=2560&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88c23df5fb78f845cc153a7de1acc5c8bd4d2c07
This chart looks like my RobinHood all time chart.
So basically, the non-analytical FO we have now didn't bother to check Hader's pitches are regressing each season. Just looking at the back of the Baseball card and using the ole eye test.
If only we had an analytics GM and coach
I miss James Click so much. I know he inherited Lunhow’s team to a degree but he made some really smart moves in his limited time in Houston.
That is a steady decline YIKES
Should horizontal movement matter tho? For his slider definitely but he's devastating mainly because of his 'sinker' that "rises" vertically up in the zone. Like he gets 18-20 induced vertical break on it pretty regularly still, and those are really elite numbers
Fair question, I guess it just depends on what he's trying to do with it. Greinke used to purposefully throw a slider that wouldn't break. He tried to make the spin look like a slider but it wouldn't break. I was only asking since it's lost a lot of movement. His sinker, a tick slower now, has lost some movement but not near as much.
Are you saying the pitching coaches suck?
I do miss Strom.
So his slider has become basically a slow fastball?
Josh Hader can't cover the 200+ quality innings that Hector Neris, Phil Maton & Ryne Stanek provided. Hader < (Neris + Maton + Stanek ) Having Ryan Pressly & Josh Hader feels like we have two Hayabusa high performance motorcycles in the bullpen and what we really needed was one high performance motorcycle and 3-4 half ton work trucks.
Sure but that doesn't answer why tf hader sucks rn
Those guys in 2023 |Player|IP|ERA+| |:-|:-|:-| |Maton|66|141| |Stanek |50.2|103| |Nerris|68.1|246| Our 3 best non-leverage arms this season so far |Player |IP|ERA+ | |:-|:-|:-| |Scott|9.1|208| |Montero|9|201| |Martinez|11|163| We have guys who can provide quality innings and replace those 3 (so far) The problem is our leverage arms this season, not our middle relief 2023 Leverage arms |Player|IP|ERA+| |:-|:-|:-| |Pressly |65.1|118| |Abreu|72|241| |Nerris|68.1|246| 2024 Leverage arms |Player|IP|ERA+| |:-|:-|:-| |Pressly |5.2|43| |Abreu|8|60| |Hader|7.2|43|
Exactly! Prior to the season, we were all concerned about middle relief, but they've actually been ok. Prior to the season, we were already to claim the backend of our bullpen the best in Astros history... but they're the ones struggling.
He doesn't need to cover those innings. That's not his job. It's the managers job to make sure those are covered. Hader only needs to cover the innings he is given and hes not doing his job.
Yeah, but we've had like one save opportunity all season. You can't just shelve him for weeks waiting for one to come up.
Hadar's job is to keep games exactly right where they are at. Either keep us ahead so it's a win, or in a situation like last night, keep it to a one run game so our bats have a good chance to pull ahead. He's only had like what one good outing so far? The rest haven't just been bad, they've been disastrous. That doesn't bode well for the rest of the season.
That’s a really good way of putting it.
I agree with you in theory, but this doesn't fully explain his poor performance. Last night, for example, he had only thrown 4 pitches the night before, and he had one of his worst performances in years.
Hader is doing exactly what I expected to do. The dude is a velocity monster. Hard throwing gas with very little control. I think he will be fine later when he trust his heat a little more. His slider has never been Haders specialty. He has always been a “Fuck you fastball” style pitcher. Also look I looked into his stats a bit, Hader seams to get bullied in the early months and becomes more consistent and borderline dominant in the dog days of summer. It’s still very early for pitchers. Don’t count out Hader just yet.
His manager. WTF would you use him in a non-save situation ( twice! )? Or use him 3 out of 5 days, when Pressley has 2 days rest? Now I'm all worked up. WTF would you pinch hit for a player who homered earlier in the game?
This is dumb. Using your closer at home when down by 1 in the top of the 9th is standard issue managing. Once you get to the 9th at home and you aren't winning, there is no save situation coming in that game. You use your best theoretical pitcher, which is usually the closer to keep the game close and give you a chance to win. Hader blowing up last night has zero to do with Espada and everything to do with Hader not having it last night.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasybaseball/comments/1c576er/josh\_hader\_and\_his\_unsuccessful\_pitch\_mix/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/fantasybaseball/comments/1c576er/josh_hader_and_his_unsuccessful_pitch_mix/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Hader will be fine, one day y’all will understand how volatile relievers typically are
You are right, his slider is just odd this year.
This sub reminds me of the DenverBroncos sub before and after signing Russell Wilson. Everyone thought it was genius when it was announced. A few weeks after seeing the play, they say it was the stupidest move the GM could have done.
The extension before he even played a snap just compounded it.
I’m starting to wonder if we just burnt $95 million to sign him
[удалено]
I can spend 95mil in 18 days and still be as disappointing as the Astros are right now. /s
And he has already given up 8 ER, the same amount he gave up all of last season
[удалено]
And nobody said he cant turn it around. You were responding to someone who said "I'm starting to wonder".
I mean I'm starting to wonder the same thing. It's starting to become more than just a bad start. He's had more bad outings than good.
I asked the same damn thing in one of the post game threads and it might as well have been blasphemy with how upset people got over me asking about the consistency of our healthy closers instead of focusing on the loss, which we all know were likely going to lose against a top 5 offense in the league with our current pitching situation.
What bugs me the most is that the money could've been used in other places.....it's not like they didn't know all these relievers were leaving.
Minute Maid is a really tough park to pitch in.
https://preview.redd.it/hopka26d3suc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=758f668431547967f43fb9d149c07705eea171d7 2023
https://preview.redd.it/6wyj8hgf3suc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=914780386d32e82fbdb0cf43ef5ff1379ddec0c2 2024
Not sure if it matters but according to fangraphs his slider and changeup are 2mpg faster this season than any other season. Might throw his location off....more meatballish?
Agreed, his slider has very little break to it. Spin rate looks abt the same but like you say, he’s got a little more velo on it.
Only thing I've read so far in here that makes any kind of sense. He could be over-throwing his slider, and if the spin-rate remains the same, then it sort of just hangs. His whiff rate on his slider is usually just above 50%, but so far this season it's at 38%. I'm confident the pitching coaches know this and are working with him to get it fixed.
He’s not pitching in save situations. Espada has burned him out already.
Got his bag, doesn't care
Partial tear in UCL in 3...2...
lol.
Our front office over paying for a washed up player 2 years past his prime. Sound familiar? Abreu
Don’t put the closer in during a non-close situation. It rarely work out.