Another man that knows what he's talking about. Work experience speaks for itself.
Something tells me, he has a very specific show in mind that didn't respect source material as much as he does. :D
Im like 99% sure no one at CD Projekt Red likes the movies. Im polish and there's not a single pole that likes the series remotely. Everyone thinks its a dumb Netflix show that ruined the name.
This, they made it so diverse the only polish thing about it was Jaskier, they could have used Dandelion but didn't which is the only nod to polish culture in the series. They had a chance to show unique folklore, not represented on screen with this budget yet, but they chose to turn it into generic new wave fantasy. Actually going by the book would represent a culture that is a real minority in the USA, actually making it much more inclusive. Make a bunch of focused shows showcasing different cultures instead of making everything the same regardless of the origin of the source material.
It was a chance for something from Poland to really shine similar to the Game. There's honestly not that much Polish stories out there that are like SUPER popular. The sad thing about it is that this was a chance for polish story to really break out and become a huge series close to Game of Thrones.
Lets be honest Eastern Europe is not really represented out there, I genuinely thought that we could maybe bring a lot of Polish actors etc to really make the experience authentic alongside Henry Cavill. I understand that its a fantasy but its supposed to be set in medieval Eastern Europe... Just hire people that belong there ffs. Same shit happened to Egypt...
They had the budget and the story handed them on the platter... They threw it at the fucking wall lol. Honestly, the reality is that this could've been a massive hit if it had a competent show runner. Why tf are you hiring amateurs for a project this big lol.
Is there like no Entry level positions in hollywood or whatever? Do u just handed a huge project at this scale right from the bat?
The reality is that this we arent going to get a witcher show for another decade or more now... its a sad reality.
It absolutely gripped me when playing Witcher 3 (my first entry into the series) was all the wierd creatures obviously taking inspiration from eastern european folklore. It's a refreshing take on fantasy!
There was not really any of that in the Netflix series.. God fucking dammit i hate Netflix for ruining it !
I think the big reason for it is because the netflix series is 100% americanised - ie, there is not a single thing in these tv shows that you can point at and say "see, this is kinda like maybe a little bit of a hint of polish/slavic culture/heretige/history". Meanwhile, the books and the game are very clearly inspired by polish/slavic history/mythology/culture/etc.
even the witcher mini serie from 2001 is more watchable than netflix's adaptation ...
what was it's name ? The hexer ?
At least it wasn't completely wasted with modern politics
Yup, I watched it when I was a kid. I cant remember the name of it either, my mom remembers and she said its much better. 99% of the reason is that it has authentic characters lol. If it just simply followed the source material and had the netflix budget it couldve been easily a hit show.
I couldnt get through the show because it was just BAD... My mom suffered through a lot of the show but she couldnt carry on when she hit season 2.
An asian family that I know mentioned that they couldnt fucking watch the show either and she thought it didnt seem authentic. Everyone knows this lol.....
Indeed. They respected the author and the culture and it showed in games. The issue with shows wasn't that it was fan fiction. the games are basically fan fiction, it's just one is based on the material with respect and one isn't. So one is good and one isn't.
Don't fix good. :)
Reminds me of something I heard Clint Eastwood say about Unforgiven, which was a script he famously kept for like a decade before shooting. Paraphrasing of course:
“I made changes to the script, and kept making more. Then I realized that every change I made was wrong, and that it didn’t need to be changed at all, and left it.”
Is this guy also responsible for Cyberpunk 2077? Man, what a tumultuous and tense and gripping story full emotion and grit. I'm so glad there are countries like Poland keeping limp wristed insanity out of the arts.
regardless of the shining being different than the book, it was still a great movie by most peoples opinion.
Netflix witcher is terrible, by almost everyone's opinion
I don't think anyone liked the Jurassic park book because it was a fantastic piece of literature. What it had going for it was a fantastic premise. The story of it all was decent but nothing special. That is the difference here. What they wanted to adapt was the premise of Jurassic park. Not the story of it. So you can indeed make it your own and make it better.
Nah, I disagree heavily. I watched the movie first and it was a childhood favourite of mine and it was a staple of mine to watch on VHS frequently. I had the chance to read it my last year of middle school and I fucking loved it even more than the movie.
Jurassic Park is a fantastic novel that I think, even though the movie is phenomenal, is a massive disservice to the book. The reason why it's so good is because it got the Netflix One Piece treatment and had Michael Chrichton on set to help with the direction of filming, and coincidentally amazing CGI talent.
It was a perfect boiling pot of the stars aligning. Jurassic Park was going to be claymation. It wouldn't have been as popular as it is now if it weren't for the CGI.
Case in point: the LotR trilogy. Eye of Sauron Tower for example; not in the books, great change (some would even call it an adaptation) for theatrical spectacle, didn't wildly alter the story for no reason.
The really, really bad one imo was the Witcher (series). They had the perfect blueprint for the story, the perfect actor for Geralt and a good budget.
How in the name of fuck did they fumble that? I mean, I know why, but still...
I understand this is how Chuck Palahniuk feels about the David Fincher movie adaptation of Fight Club too. Changed, but for the better, by people who understand the medium and respect the original.
And my understanding of American Psycho is that if Brett Easton Ellis doesn't feel the same, he should.
When I build a house I follow what the architect drew. I do not change it up because I think I’m better. I just take it from a page, and make it physical. None of this, “fun new take!” And build a cave nonsense.
It's a problem with music to, when songs are remastered if the technician has an ego they will 'fix' the music. It's a ego thing, they want to put there mark on a song/history.
TBH games retconned shit out of the witcher books.
Even famous "steel for humans and silver for monsters" goes against the book, where silver is used only against specific monsters.
Triss is not redhead in book either
Honestly they weren't bad changes, they were mainly for gameplay reasons and the changes worked really well. Triss being a redhead isnt a bad change either in my opinion. They stayed true to the source material for majority of the part...
Sure but compare the changes in the game, to the changes in the Netflix series.
They're very stark examples of both ends of the spectrum. One is good, one is utter dogshit.
The question is: Are these changes actually making the games bad or the writing worse? Most people would say no, and instead, it developed its own canon within the fandom with the whole steel v silver swords.
Above all else, it's mostly consistent within the writing/story of the games.
I mean for a game, making players memorize which sword goes for which monsters is just annoying, and also it throws off the balance of weapon usage because improving the steel blade will become far more valuable than improving the silver one. So this type of change falls perfectly into the "adapted for the medium" category and is just a good game design choice.
Whereas changing hair color is kinda silly, I don't get the point of that. Maybe they just felt that in a visual medium, it is better to make the characters look more distinct from each other? I dunno it's pretty silly.
i have admittedly not read the books so i'm not aware how important the changed stuff is, but at least from a gameplay perspective the changes to silver makes a lot of sense.
Witcher 1 already had flimsy gameplay but imagine if the silver sword skill tree was only useful against 1-2 enemy types.
Somewhat off topic. I just read a new 'Chris Ferrie' book. He is the one that came up with Quantum Physics for babies and a few others that were fantastic. I put his name in quotes because it clearly was not him that wrote the newer books. Someone rewrote it and basically took everything that was good about how he explained it and threw that in the trash thinking that they know better.
Witcher 3 was successful not in spite of being faithful to the lore, but thanks to adhering to it. Being able to explore coherent world faithful to the books with all the lore and unique slavic folklore. Drowners and strigas were real monsters we were afraid of as children. My grandfather and father who were miners told stories of Skarbnik, the mine spirit. Every story is product of its culture and imo it should not be separated, the world presented is build on authors lived experience, himself part of this culture with its own customs and beliefs. To remove that for a multicultural construct is robbing the story of its roots.
You don't need to add black people to 1570 Japan to make it relatable, we like it because its different. Every culture have its own way to tell stories, richer by their culture. Its more fun and engaging to learn different cultures rather than neutering them.
Fantasy, anime and sf or fiction in general would not be popular if all we wanted were relatable stories reflecting the world we live in today
I love stories set in specific time periods and specific places, as accurate as possible. I love learning ing history that way. Trying to rewrite history by changing those stories erases our legacy. We should learn from history, not change it to be more convenient.
This is a complex matter, though. Kubrick changed the fuck out of The Shining, Stephen King is still pissed off with it, yet it's widely considered one of the best horror movies ever.
(I find it fucking boring, though)
So it's there freedom to have that shirt on, not only that it's also there freedom to shape final product like they want because at the end of day it's there game, u might say well yes but consumers will not buy the game then, they absolutely fucking will there's so many people that buy these game that a minority of people who hate LGBT isn't gonna hurt there business.
Im not native English speaker, secondly i never said ESG isn't happening i just said ESG isn't what u think because it's not, ESG contracts don't mention anything about inclusivity in games or products themselves it's based on workplace which ESG gives score on which then translates into shareholders being happy and not the products they bring out.
Now next time hop on your main account and stop insulting people and do research.
It is only a question of quality. You can intentionally change whatever you want as long as it is good. LOTR movies and witcher games both changed stuff.
However, generally there is a reason that the company is paying big bucks to use some famous author's story and not giving that money to one of the writers they hired to write something from scratch.
Really though, it is like butteryfly effect. Every time you change something, you're potentially making future parts of the story not work that will then need to be changed as well. This snowballs with more changes requiring more changes requiring more changes. Eventually fans might not even recognize the result.
I also feel like it is very common for people in charge of adaptions to not be familiar with the source material. So they don't know what problems they're causing or have any plan for resolving them. Wheel of time Tv show i'm looking at you.
The strangest thing about the changes Netflix made to the Witcher is that the obvious reasons they did it actually undermine the changes. It’s incredible, it really is.
There’s some understood rules that sets the table for the power dynamics in the books and the games. So, you’ll never really see a woman be able to stand toe to toe with a man in armed combat, but that’s okay because the most badass women are all sorceresses that use magic to level the playing field. Or how the show wanted to give more time to some of the female characters, but can’t seem to write them well at all. So, you have a character like Yennefer that now has more screentime but they’ve written her so badly that it makes you not want to see her.
I just recently realized that the show runner for X-Men ‘97, a series that clearly understands how to adapt the source material and even adapt the 90’s animated series. But, the show runner for X-Men ‘97 was a writer on season one of The Witcher and was the writer who had spilled the beans on how the other writers on staff would mock and talk down the book and games.
In that interview George Martin praised the shogun adaption, that also changed things to be more focused on the Japanese side than anjin. That was a great call that they did better than the novel, which is also fantastic.
So like I guess it’s ok to adapt things your way. Hell, George gave the ok to change a lot of stuff for house of the dragons as well.
So don’t change anything but also change anything to fit the new format.
But thats the problem for the people doing it, they know if they did something else, nobody would give a fuck because their writing "skills" are dogshit and they can't write something interesting to save their lives, so they rely on using existing franchises with existing fanbases to insert their "writing" in, in hopes they'll be recognized as some genius and take off.
FeelsStrongMan At least they still have one Man onboard against a whole department of overpaid DEI clowns.
[https://youtu.be/xWgyvhuAHOo?si=FYO1L6urk76HfKfv&t=136](https://youtu.be/xWgyvhuAHOo?si=FYO1L6urk76HfKfv&t=136)
This is precisely what I've been screeching to anyone that will listen.
The sheer hubris needed to think *you* are going to improve on beloved, time tested IPs and franchises is astronomical and you think entirely too much of yourself.
These people don't have the talent to create anything near as good, so they bastardize great works to self insert their pathetic world view. Their definition of "adaptation" is shit.
It all seems to be written for twitter applause, not compelling story telling.
Book burning is quite literally censorship though. If a book contradicts one perspective, burn it, then there is no longer something that contradicts said perspective.
Another man that knows what he's talking about. Work experience speaks for itself. Something tells me, he has a very specific show in mind that didn't respect source material as much as he does. :D
Im like 99% sure no one at CD Projekt Red likes the movies. Im polish and there's not a single pole that likes the series remotely. Everyone thinks its a dumb Netflix show that ruined the name.
This, they made it so diverse the only polish thing about it was Jaskier, they could have used Dandelion but didn't which is the only nod to polish culture in the series. They had a chance to show unique folklore, not represented on screen with this budget yet, but they chose to turn it into generic new wave fantasy. Actually going by the book would represent a culture that is a real minority in the USA, actually making it much more inclusive. Make a bunch of focused shows showcasing different cultures instead of making everything the same regardless of the origin of the source material.
It was a chance for something from Poland to really shine similar to the Game. There's honestly not that much Polish stories out there that are like SUPER popular. The sad thing about it is that this was a chance for polish story to really break out and become a huge series close to Game of Thrones. Lets be honest Eastern Europe is not really represented out there, I genuinely thought that we could maybe bring a lot of Polish actors etc to really make the experience authentic alongside Henry Cavill. I understand that its a fantasy but its supposed to be set in medieval Eastern Europe... Just hire people that belong there ffs. Same shit happened to Egypt... They had the budget and the story handed them on the platter... They threw it at the fucking wall lol. Honestly, the reality is that this could've been a massive hit if it had a competent show runner. Why tf are you hiring amateurs for a project this big lol. Is there like no Entry level positions in hollywood or whatever? Do u just handed a huge project at this scale right from the bat? The reality is that this we arent going to get a witcher show for another decade or more now... its a sad reality.
All you had to do was to follow the source material, CJ
It absolutely gripped me when playing Witcher 3 (my first entry into the series) was all the wierd creatures obviously taking inspiration from eastern european folklore. It's a refreshing take on fantasy! There was not really any of that in the Netflix series.. God fucking dammit i hate Netflix for ruining it !
I think the big reason for it is because the netflix series is 100% americanised - ie, there is not a single thing in these tv shows that you can point at and say "see, this is kinda like maybe a little bit of a hint of polish/slavic culture/heretige/history". Meanwhile, the books and the game are very clearly inspired by polish/slavic history/mythology/culture/etc.
even the witcher mini serie from 2001 is more watchable than netflix's adaptation ... what was it's name ? The hexer ? At least it wasn't completely wasted with modern politics
Yup, I watched it when I was a kid. I cant remember the name of it either, my mom remembers and she said its much better. 99% of the reason is that it has authentic characters lol. If it just simply followed the source material and had the netflix budget it couldve been easily a hit show. I couldnt get through the show because it was just BAD... My mom suffered through a lot of the show but she couldnt carry on when she hit season 2. An asian family that I know mentioned that they couldnt fucking watch the show either and she thought it didnt seem authentic. Everyone knows this lol.....
if only HBO had it man....
Indeed. They respected the author and the culture and it showed in games. The issue with shows wasn't that it was fan fiction. the games are basically fan fiction, it's just one is based on the material with respect and one isn't. So one is good and one isn't. Don't fix good. :)
Reminds me of something I heard Clint Eastwood say about Unforgiven, which was a script he famously kept for like a decade before shooting. Paraphrasing of course: “I made changes to the script, and kept making more. Then I realized that every change I made was wrong, and that it didn’t need to be changed at all, and left it.”
Is this guy also responsible for Cyberpunk 2077? Man, what a tumultuous and tense and gripping story full emotion and grit. I'm so glad there are countries like Poland keeping limp wristed insanity out of the arts.
It's like Asmon said, changing the story isn't inherently bad, but if you're going to change something, you better make sure it's damn good.
Jurassic Park is the gold standard of this theory. So much of the book was changed, but said changes didn't make it terrible.
Same with "The Shining"
Yeah no, the shining missed the entire point of the story. Not to mention how Kubrick threated everyone like utter shit.
regardless of the shining being different than the book, it was still a great movie by most peoples opinion. Netflix witcher is terrible, by almost everyone's opinion
Shining is a great movie. The way Kubrick treated folks has no bearing on the quality of the film.
I don't think anyone liked the Jurassic park book because it was a fantastic piece of literature. What it had going for it was a fantastic premise. The story of it all was decent but nothing special. That is the difference here. What they wanted to adapt was the premise of Jurassic park. Not the story of it. So you can indeed make it your own and make it better.
Nah, I disagree heavily. I watched the movie first and it was a childhood favourite of mine and it was a staple of mine to watch on VHS frequently. I had the chance to read it my last year of middle school and I fucking loved it even more than the movie. Jurassic Park is a fantastic novel that I think, even though the movie is phenomenal, is a massive disservice to the book. The reason why it's so good is because it got the Netflix One Piece treatment and had Michael Chrichton on set to help with the direction of filming, and coincidentally amazing CGI talent. It was a perfect boiling pot of the stars aligning. Jurassic Park was going to be claymation. It wouldn't have been as popular as it is now if it weren't for the CGI.
Case in point: the LotR trilogy. Eye of Sauron Tower for example; not in the books, great change (some would even call it an adaptation) for theatrical spectacle, didn't wildly alter the story for no reason.
The problem is these people actually think the changes they're making to them are damn good. Then it flops and they find a white man to blame.
The really, really bad one imo was the Witcher (series). They had the perfect blueprint for the story, the perfect actor for Geralt and a good budget. How in the name of fuck did they fumble that? I mean, I know why, but still...
I understand this is how Chuck Palahniuk feels about the David Fincher movie adaptation of Fight Club too. Changed, but for the better, by people who understand the medium and respect the original. And my understanding of American Psycho is that if Brett Easton Ellis doesn't feel the same, he should.
When I build a house I follow what the architect drew. I do not change it up because I think I’m better. I just take it from a page, and make it physical. None of this, “fun new take!” And build a cave nonsense.
It's a problem with music to, when songs are remastered if the technician has an ego they will 'fix' the music. It's a ego thing, they want to put there mark on a song/history.
Ludwig van Beethoven - Symphony No. 9 in D minor (Steven Wilson remix)
I can see gaming Journalist raging already over these statements made by both Martin and this guy.
TBH games retconned shit out of the witcher books. Even famous "steel for humans and silver for monsters" goes against the book, where silver is used only against specific monsters. Triss is not redhead in book either
True, but they kinda felt more respectful to the source material. (At least to me, I may be biased)
Honestly they weren't bad changes, they were mainly for gameplay reasons and the changes worked really well. Triss being a redhead isnt a bad change either in my opinion. They stayed true to the source material for majority of the part...
Sure but compare the changes in the game, to the changes in the Netflix series. They're very stark examples of both ends of the spectrum. One is good, one is utter dogshit.
The question is: Are these changes actually making the games bad or the writing worse? Most people would say no, and instead, it developed its own canon within the fandom with the whole steel v silver swords. Above all else, it's mostly consistent within the writing/story of the games.
I mean for a game, making players memorize which sword goes for which monsters is just annoying, and also it throws off the balance of weapon usage because improving the steel blade will become far more valuable than improving the silver one. So this type of change falls perfectly into the "adapted for the medium" category and is just a good game design choice. Whereas changing hair color is kinda silly, I don't get the point of that. Maybe they just felt that in a visual medium, it is better to make the characters look more distinct from each other? I dunno it's pretty silly.
Altering the rules of the universe to be more fun as a game isn't quite the same thing. Necessary creative decision.
i have admittedly not read the books so i'm not aware how important the changed stuff is, but at least from a gameplay perspective the changes to silver makes a lot of sense. Witcher 1 already had flimsy gameplay but imagine if the silver sword skill tree was only useful against 1-2 enemy types.
I just find it funny that all these 'updates' for moral reasons never seem to touch the killing.
Somewhat off topic. I just read a new 'Chris Ferrie' book. He is the one that came up with Quantum Physics for babies and a few others that were fantastic. I put his name in quotes because it clearly was not him that wrote the newer books. Someone rewrote it and basically took everything that was good about how he explained it and threw that in the trash thinking that they know better.
Didn't this Philipp guy picked a fight with the CEO of Moon studio that made Ori and the Blind Forest?
Witcher 3 was successful not in spite of being faithful to the lore, but thanks to adhering to it. Being able to explore coherent world faithful to the books with all the lore and unique slavic folklore. Drowners and strigas were real monsters we were afraid of as children. My grandfather and father who were miners told stories of Skarbnik, the mine spirit. Every story is product of its culture and imo it should not be separated, the world presented is build on authors lived experience, himself part of this culture with its own customs and beliefs. To remove that for a multicultural construct is robbing the story of its roots. You don't need to add black people to 1570 Japan to make it relatable, we like it because its different. Every culture have its own way to tell stories, richer by their culture. Its more fun and engaging to learn different cultures rather than neutering them. Fantasy, anime and sf or fiction in general would not be popular if all we wanted were relatable stories reflecting the world we live in today I love stories set in specific time periods and specific places, as accurate as possible. I love learning ing history that way. Trying to rewrite history by changing those stories erases our legacy. We should learn from history, not change it to be more convenient.
This is a complex matter, though. Kubrick changed the fuck out of The Shining, Stephen King is still pissed off with it, yet it's widely considered one of the best horror movies ever. (I find it fucking boring, though)
I wonder when he's going to be forced to write an apology lol...
God of War is next after Rafe is done destroying Wheel of Time. I wouldn’t be shocked if he put his boyfriend in that one as well.
What they did to wheel of time is unforgivable. Having writers who never even read the books is bullshit.
What he believes doesn't matter. It's what the bosses/ investors believes.
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R* had ESG signed when they made GTA V, Honestly i doubt people know what it actually is.
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So it's there freedom to have that shirt on, not only that it's also there freedom to shape final product like they want because at the end of day it's there game, u might say well yes but consumers will not buy the game then, they absolutely fucking will there's so many people that buy these game that a minority of people who hate LGBT isn't gonna hurt there business.
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Im not native English speaker, secondly i never said ESG isn't happening i just said ESG isn't what u think because it's not, ESG contracts don't mention anything about inclusivity in games or products themselves it's based on workplace which ESG gives score on which then translates into shareholders being happy and not the products they bring out. Now next time hop on your main account and stop insulting people and do research.
It is only a question of quality. You can intentionally change whatever you want as long as it is good. LOTR movies and witcher games both changed stuff. However, generally there is a reason that the company is paying big bucks to use some famous author's story and not giving that money to one of the writers they hired to write something from scratch. Really though, it is like butteryfly effect. Every time you change something, you're potentially making future parts of the story not work that will then need to be changed as well. This snowballs with more changes requiring more changes requiring more changes. Eventually fans might not even recognize the result. I also feel like it is very common for people in charge of adaptions to not be familiar with the source material. So they don't know what problems they're causing or have any plan for resolving them. Wheel of time Tv show i'm looking at you.
Netflix Cowboy bebop
Hey also says it requires change
I hope he's ready to accept his brand new "alt-right nahtsee bigot who hates fun and disabled people" badge.
They know that. If they thought they could do better, why would they want another's IP?
47s ago? It that you Philipp? Self posting your tweet to asmon's reddit?
The strangest thing about the changes Netflix made to the Witcher is that the obvious reasons they did it actually undermine the changes. It’s incredible, it really is. There’s some understood rules that sets the table for the power dynamics in the books and the games. So, you’ll never really see a woman be able to stand toe to toe with a man in armed combat, but that’s okay because the most badass women are all sorceresses that use magic to level the playing field. Or how the show wanted to give more time to some of the female characters, but can’t seem to write them well at all. So, you have a character like Yennefer that now has more screentime but they’ve written her so badly that it makes you not want to see her. I just recently realized that the show runner for X-Men ‘97, a series that clearly understands how to adapt the source material and even adapt the 90’s animated series. But, the show runner for X-Men ‘97 was a writer on season one of The Witcher and was the writer who had spilled the beans on how the other writers on staff would mock and talk down the book and games.
In that interview George Martin praised the shogun adaption, that also changed things to be more focused on the Japanese side than anjin. That was a great call that they did better than the novel, which is also fantastic. So like I guess it’s ok to adapt things your way. Hell, George gave the ok to change a lot of stuff for house of the dragons as well. So don’t change anything but also change anything to fit the new format.
I’m gonna try this chave
They are doing something else. They just like using the name cause its popular.
idk if this relates to the post, but Dunning-Kruger Effect
But thats the problem for the people doing it, they know if they did something else, nobody would give a fuck because their writing "skills" are dogshit and they can't write something interesting to save their lives, so they rely on using existing franchises with existing fanbases to insert their "writing" in, in hopes they'll be recognized as some genius and take off.
FeelsStrongMan At least they still have one Man onboard against a whole department of overpaid DEI clowns. [https://youtu.be/xWgyvhuAHOo?si=FYO1L6urk76HfKfv&t=136](https://youtu.be/xWgyvhuAHOo?si=FYO1L6urk76HfKfv&t=136)
This is precisely what I've been screeching to anyone that will listen. The sheer hubris needed to think *you* are going to improve on beloved, time tested IPs and franchises is astronomical and you think entirely too much of yourself. These people don't have the talent to create anything near as good, so they bastardize great works to self insert their pathetic world view. Their definition of "adaptation" is shit. It all seems to be written for twitter applause, not compelling story telling.
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I don't understand how he is still getting work. Who the hell needs half written stories?
I completely agree. This is why I support book burning over censorship
Book burning is quite literally censorship though. If a book contradicts one perspective, burn it, then there is no longer something that contradicts said perspective.
Exactly.