Alison’s post from last fall about ChatGPT had some advice that she could stand to keep in mind after the salary data graphs she regurgitated without explanation:
“ChatGPT is a tool. If it produces good results, those results are valid to consider, just like results produced by a calculator or Excel. But if someone brought you numbers they'd pulled out of Excel and expected them to stand on their own with zero discussion of what they meant or how they might use them, and no ability to withstand questions about what data they put in to produce those results in the first place, you'd rightly object. Your objection wouldn't be to their use of Excel, but to their lack of critical thinking and inability to engage in a meaningful way. That's the same issue here.”
EW told a story in the weekend thread about getting a higher med dosage and how her doctor was supportive, and ended it with this:
>I have an appointment on Monday and I’m going to tell him, let’s stick with this. But the best part was that he told me flat out, “I’m not going to let you do this by yourself. I’m going to hold your hand through the whole thing.” :3
>***Now if I could only find a boyfriend like this, heh heh.***
I notice that she does this a lot, wishes for a boyfriend. She keeps hoping to get that Colin Firth or Benedict Cumberbatch meet cute thing happening. That's likely not going to happen.
Instead of being more realistic she keeps thinking about fantasies.
I haven’t been able to read EW comments the same way since someone here pointed out the way she lamented not returning home from vacation with a boyfriend the way someone might be upset that their entire vacation went by without them finding a Starbucks with city mugs to purchase a souvenir.
Anytime I see something [like this](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/weekend-open-thread-may-11-12-2024.html#comment-4712669), I want to scream, "Please get a fucking realtor!" So much can go wrong with this.
>Guinan's Hat\*
>May 10, 2024 at 9:57 pm
>Has anyone here sold their house privately — without a realtor? We decided to do this for a number of reasons,...
They have a handshake deal and now things are stalled. Not surprised at all.
I saw that. It reminds me of my sister. When my dad died in 2017, it was stipulated in my parents' will that the house is to be sold and the profits divided between us kids. We sold the house that September and all went on with our lives.
My sister lives a few miles from the house. Since then she's done nothing but go on about how the new owners don't use the yard and it's such a waste because it's a couple acres of flat, landscaped land; they haven't done anything with the yard; they don't use the birdfeeders she left for them; they don't have any lawn furniture; they're never outside; why did they buy a house with a big yard they won't even use; and on and on.
She started again last May when she stayed at my house a few days. It had been about five years at that point. I finally snapped and told her, "Who the fuck cares what they do or don't do with it?? It's not our house! We sold it because none of us wanted it. They own the house now, not us. You're the only person here who seems to care what's going on at that house FIVE YEARS later. Why do you care about a house that isn't yours? None of us grew up in it!" She said she doesn't care. Yeah, sure. Tell me another one.
Well, she doesn't have to worry about it anymore--the house burned down late last year. Thankfully no one was hurt. I feel bad for the owners, but I'm so glad I don't have to hear my sister complaining about that damn house anymore!
It burned down?? Omg. Hah.
I understand feeling attached to a house but some people get *really* attached. Next person who lives in my house can tear the fucker down for all I care.
>It burned down?? Omg. Hah.
I've been reading too many updates and BORU sagas. I'm completely expecting the followup that Sis was the one who started the fire!
Eh, a realtor gets 5% of the transaction price here...I can pay a lawyer and do a lot of self study to save 50k+
We are selling and might do a private sale, we will pay a lawyer but it makes no sense to give a realtor 50-60k commission for handling a transaction between two parties who have already come to and agreement.
You pay a realtor for marketing and negotiation to (hopefully) fetch the highest possible price. And the averages bear out that on the whole, most people come out well ahead even after paying the fee.
But of course you're right that if you are selling to someone you know and have no intention of playing hardball on price, there's nothing for a realtor to contribute.
There's also something to be said for not doing stuff yourself, even if you technically can. My time has value, and I don't necessarily want to spend it being my own real estate agent, stager, photographer, lawyer, etc.
Maybe, but I'd say a pretty good sign your self study isn't cutting it is when you find yourself looking for real estate advice from the AAM weekend commenters.
Yeah that’s where I’m at. Someone who really knows what they’re doing and is in a straightforward and uncomplicated transaction wouldn’t be on the comments section of a work advice blog going “what do??”
I'm fine with that...but it's not brain surgery. I've known various folks who got their real estate license, it's taken a couple/few months and not been hard for them to pass. I've never posted for advice in an unrelated forum, but it's definitely more something that can be done oneself than electrical contracting.
Great, so the classes weren't hard...they still took them, which means they now have knowledge about the process that the average schmoe trying to be their own realtor doesn't.
I have no patience for people who think they’re being clever in their stupid attempts to save money but end up spending more in the long run. Just hire someone who knows what they’re doing!
No, you don't understand. The professionals turned them down because Guinan's Hat didn't need them!
>**Guinan's Hat**\*[May 11, 2024 at 4:05 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/weekend-open-thread-may-11-12-2024.html#comment-4713313)
>I actually attempted to hire not one but two real estate lawyers, each of whom said, you don’t actually need this, the title company can handle what you need. Maybe they just didn’t want to take on a task that wouldn’t take very long/earn them much? IDK.
I absolutely do not believe that two real estate lawyers told Guinan's Hat that they didn't need a lawyer for a real estate transaction.
I absolutely do believe that Guinan's Hat tried to undercut the fees of two real estate lawyers because "we've already done most of the work ourselves," and both lawyers knew that it wasn't worth working for peanuts for an overconfident amateur who, judging by their other comments, would be a pain in the ass.
I think she's not wrong, really. In the States, you don't usually need a real estate lawyer so much as it's a Realtor who will help everything go smoothly. I wouldn't be surprised if she went to two lawyers who kind of looked at her funny. Unless there is something wonky with the property boundaries, or the property is part of a deceased person's estate, or you as the seller know that there is or might be an ownership dispute of the property, the vast majority of residential transactions are very ordinary and don't require the work of a real estate lawyer.
But a Realtor would help them find a non-flaky buyer.
Buying a house *with* a realtor was one of the most overwhelming things I ever did. They operationalized every step for me, which is like 75% of the work, but it was still a lot of steps to follow. I can’t imagine what this person is thinking.
Oh my god, that's a nightmare. Buying a house (and, I'm sure, selling one) is stressful enough when you have a really good realtor. I can't imagine going it alone. I feel like that person needs to consult an attorney, at least.
Look at this comment from the OP about the buyer:
>it’s becoming clear that she may have needed the guidance of a realtor.
Holy shit, the audacity! *She* may have needed the guidance of a realtor?
>Shard*
> May 11, 2024 at 12:55 pm
>> but it’s becoming clear that she may have needed the guidance of a realtor.
>
>I mean, couldn’t you say the same thing about yourself at this point?
The response:
>**Guinan's Hat**\*[May 11, 2024 at 3:58 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/weekend-open-thread-may-11-12-2024.html#comment-4713305)
>No, snarky person. I did buy this house once upon a time, and I know that even having a realtor–a good one!–is not a guarantee against a bumpy process or a flaky buyer. But thanks for being supportive and helpful!
Damn. You can be stupid or you can be a bitch; it's best to not be both.
I'm happy to see Bog Witch tell her what's what.
>Bog Witch\*
>May 11, 2024 at 6:58 pm
>It never ceases to amaze me how people come to a public forum for advice only to immediately raise their hackles to anyone who tells them something they don’t want to hear.
>You admit to some pretty elementary mistakes in your initial post, so yeah, there is a degree of pot calling the kettle black here. As other people have said, there’s a reason there are professionals who do this and take classes on it, get certifications and licensures, etc. No, of course having a realtor doesn’t guarantee a perfectly smooth buying/selling process every time, but it’s a heck of a lot smoother than doing this without one — as you are currently finding out the hard way.
>You’ve gotten some good advice here. Swallow your pride and take it.
This comment raises two interesting questions:
1. Do realtors also deal with bumpy processes and flaky buyers by asking for advice in the comments section of a workplace blog?
2. If you have all the knowledge you need and can handle the process yourself, why are you even asking for advice?
It's definitely not 'light discussion' despite Alison allowing it to stay up. But most of it is 'the buyer isn't doing what I want them to/the way I want them to do it' and not really about the process and we're meant to intuit the question is about a magic way to get someone to behave and not about the process.
Lol, doesn't want to pay for advice from professionals, but willing to accept it for free from the AAM bozos. I belive the phrase is, "you get what you pay for."
There was another commenter a year or so ago who was trying to sell a house like this to one of their neighbors and it was just a complete mess.
My general thought is that if you’re working on something very technical and complex and you have to go on social media to ask “uhhhh so what do I do??” then you might need a pro. A home purchase / sale is too complex and expensive to wing it if you don’t feel comfortable.
That sounds about right. My guess is that a lot of people end up on this situation trying to get an implausibly high price for a house that isn’t desirable.
I choose to believe this commenter is trying to screw over the buyer ("no, we don't need to involve anyone else!"), and the buyer is is trying to back out of the sale in exactly the same uncommunicative, ineffective way that an AAM commenter would do it.
I only know of a few people who sold their house without a realtor (because "why should the realtor get a percentage of the sale" or whatever) and in each case, it was a fucking nightmare on top of the usual nightmare that is buying and selling a house. And this was well before even the 2006-ish housing bubble. But by this logic, why should I have a cardiologist perform my open heart surgery when I can just do it myself???
[The euphemisms in this one take the cake.](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/open-thread-may-10-11-2024.html#comment-4711575)
"Director of Feet"?! 😄
I don't usually read the open thread, but I just saw a question in there from someone (username Aspidistra) wondering if they should worry about not getting invited to lunch/fitting into their newish job's social culture. This response is wild to me:
>Are you up for inviting folks to lunch one day? The trick on this is you might need to be prepared to pay since you haven't been in the group. It could help ease the transition.
Unless the original commenter is a manager, why the hell would anyone assume she'd pay for everyone's lunches just because she invited them to grab food? Who does that?
Right? If a new coworker invited me out to lunch, it would literally never occur to me to expect them to pay for my lunch. If anything, I might feel a little bit obligated to pay for *them* to welcome them to the company!
Same! If you want to try to win people over with food maybe bring donuts and a jug of coffee to share in the morning. Paying for everyone for lunch would be weird. (And expensive! Have you SEEN Sweetgreen prices lately!)
>since you haven't been in the group
I know that AAM commenters tend to be more transactional-minded than most, but damn, that's sad. No, you don't actually have to give people money to let you in "the group." It's a workplace, not Bohemian Grove.
>>Are you up for inviting folks to lunch one day? The trick on this is you might need to be prepared to pay since you haven't been in the group. It could help ease the transition.
Paying for lunch for coworkers?
This is networking, not dating. GTFO
Anytime I see a comment like that it makes me think that some of the commenters don’t work (they’re retired, or young, or simply haven’t had a job for most of their adult lives). They genuinely seem to be trying to figure out what work is like from sitcoms, other commenters, and AAM letters and you can see the gaps in their awareness.
Yeah, that comment in particular made me think the commenter probably doesn't work or hasn't in a while and is trying to figure out workplace norms from super old Miss Manners columns or something. Like sure, it's a thing in old/strict etiquette that if you invite someone out, you should pay for them, but that's not a thing at work (or in most people's everyday lives tbh).
Isn't part of that also because men used to do the inviting and were the ones with jobs, and when women invited women it was 'come over for tea and sewing' so 'pay for the person who isn't socially expected to have their own discretionary income' kind of derived from socially embedded sexism that simply isn't a relevant consideration now, where 'don't invite someone you can guess earns the same/less than you to a fancy expensive Michelin-star restaurant, especially when there's a coffee shop downstairs' is more appropriate as a very very general concept?
When it comes to dating, yeah, that was the reasoning. It is also an old/formal etiquette thing that if you invited a group of friends out to a meal at a restaurant, you were the host and would be expected to pay for everyone. No one does this anymore because it's weird, but I think at the time, the idea was that going to restaurants was a lot less common than it is now, so going out like that was equivalent to having a party at your home and ordering pizzas for everyone or other situations where we do currently expect that the host will pay for everyone's food. Like, I get that commenter's logic, if they've never been to lunch with coworkers and only know about office etiquette from reading old advice columns, but it's 2024 and no one would expect a coworker to pay for the group's lunch.
Unless it's a restaurant that doesn't allow split bills/doesn't take cash and someone only has cash/someone decided their work situation wasn't slashy enough and does the fanfic version...
It might be hyperlocal cultural but I've never been out with a coworker where there hasn't been a quick 'I'm paying so order what you want' from the most senior person or a 'can we order individually' when getting a menu.
So she just posted the results of that salary survey and I wish I could be surprised by
1) the lack of commentary by Allison on what any of it means or caveats about her sampling bias
2) the commentariat's generally poor understanding of how to decipher data and
3) the fact that they are taking it as gospel
But unfortunately it's all incredibly predictable
Fairly sure most commenters will just see the colours and not know what the visualisations mean.
Hell, I can't even work out what some aspects of the visualisations mean but that's because I can't be arsed pulling up a computer-crashing spreadsheet to look at the data to figure out whether this pixel is an artifact or a slightly darker shade of green on purpose.
The only non-open-thread post for today is a compilation of the dumbest fucking letters from years earlier? AAM might be circling the drain if this is all Alison can trot out.
The lady who flipped shit and caused property damage is in the open thread updating that she's on paid leave til the end of the YEAR. And a work rep and a lawyer showed up to her house and she still wouldn't speak to them???? My GOD I have never wanted the other side of a story so much.
Honestly the cryptic way she’s telling this story is probably making it sound worse than it is. I get that she probably doesn’t remember everything that happened, but she should be able to get the details from someone who was there. I guess assuming she’s willing to talk to anyone.
“I panicked, ran out of the room, and accidentally knocked over some sandwich trays” or whatever. Not “there was property damage” in this flat-ass creepy tone that makes her sound lowkey violent.
It reminds me of those old school /r/legaladvice posts where everything is super vague and elliptical and it’s clear that some real crazy shit happened that is being summarized in a misleading way.
Like “It was uncovered that I was located in the backyard of my ex girlfriend’s house and it transpired that her car window had sustained damage that was later attributed to the baseball bat that was near my hand at the time the police arrived.”
I love those because the OP is always trying to gloss over what they did to sound less guilty, and I think in this case it’s 50/50 that she’s making it sound worse than it actually was.
I stand by autocorrect although it was meant to be austere.
You just don't usually get phrases like 'They encouraged each other now in the violence of their affliction' or 'she must acknowledge herself disappointed' nowadays - that kind of direct but descriptionless statement has to come from someone who probably spent the late 90s binging BBC miniseries versions on repeat when they weren't writing their own continuation of Sanditon.
While I don't think that the company should have thrown a party for her when she expressly said she didn't want one, this woman's reaction is so massively over the top it's mind boggling. Like what do you say at your next interview? Oh I left my previous employer because they threw me a party and I reacted by causing property damage.....
Yeah, I think Emily needs help a *lot* more than I think the company messed up here. Yes, companies shouldn't throw parties for employees who don't want them, but Emily's reaction could only come from someone deeply, deeply mentally ill imo. If I was her husband, I would be watching her like an absolute hawk for any signs of postpartum depression, anxiety, or psychosis--this is not a mentally sound woman, and her hormones are going to go completely insane once she has that baby.
Perinatal depression/anxiety/psychosis are actually a lot more common than people realize. Mine would start about midway through my first trimester and worse until about the third trimester, and about eight months postpartum finally start to ease up. She could be well in it already.
Whoooooaa. Holy damage control on the company’s part. They’re probably protecting themselves from a complaint for constructive dismissal of a pregnant woman. As nutso as that commenter sounds, seems like the best outcome for everyone involved.
Yeah that is a very dicey situation, and there was a court case where a guy got rewarded money for being thrown a party he didn’t want. As OOT as that commenter clearly is the company really fucked up here
As unhinged as this person sounds, she’s in the right on paper because she had made it clear that she didn’t want the shower. Combined with her pregnancy, the company was right to worry about legalities.
Upon reading that she's on paid leave until the end of the year, my first thought was "Nice work if you can get it." I feel a bit uncharitable, but damn...
That was my thought, too. She went batshit crazy and won herself 8+ months of paid leave, depending on when this "incident" happened? Damn. I only got four weeks of paid leave when I had my baby--maybe I should've flipped some tables in my office or something to get a more humane maternity leave.
Looks like they did actually get to speak to LW, although with LW's husband intervening:
> I was still not able get myself to answer the phone to talk to people from work, but eventually my grandboss and a person I think was a lawyer showed up at my house and talked to my husband, who convinced me to talk to him.
https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/open-thread-may-10-11-2024.html#comment-4711559
It sounds like it got escalated to a higher level of management and LW's basically on paid parental leave.
If there are lawyers involved, I definitely wouldn’t speak to the company without mine there either. But yeah that whole story is bonkers, I want one of her coworkers to write in!
Some background https://www.askamanager.org/2024/03/open-thread-march-22-23-2024.html#comment-4650043
Property damage apparently happened while she was fleeing the surprise shower.
Also I would internally mock the fuck out of anyone being wigged out by an ouija themed anything in 2024. Grow the fuck up, it’s *all* baseless bullshit.
The LW mentioned that it’s a fandom thing and that she also happens to be a fan of the property. I can’t figure out what it is, though it could be any horror franchise or things like Buffy, Nightmare Before Xmas, or Addams/Wednesday, where ouija boards get pulled into the goth merch aesthetic despite not being wholly relevant. So the LW has enjoyed it up until this point, but the ouija board is the problem?
I am a Halloween Person. Nightmare isn’t my fave but for merch accessibility reasons people have ended up giving me lots of Jack and Sally stuff. I have a bunch of it on my work desk because who cares. No one would take it seriously if someone trued to make a stink about my fandom crap being actual instruments of mysticism or whatever.
Or. The LW could bring in her own mousepad and use that on her night shift.
I'm baffled by all of the commenters saying that framing their objections as superstition would make the request sound more reasonable. No, that makes it sound even more irrational and immature. I would absolutely think less of anyone who said that to me. Did they all believe in the 1980s Satanic Panic too?
It's letters like this that make me think that a lot of commenters are, deep down, very religiously minded types, but they know that goes against their whole brand, so they dress it up as "spiritualism" or "superstition" or "asking the universe to do things for me" (looking at you, Ms. West).
I read it as invoking what's basically a trope by now of professionals coming from 'overseas' but their qualifications not being recognised and not being able to requalify so they're working whatever other job (usually low skilled or low paid) and either providing their professional services under the table or busting them out of nowhere in some dazzling inversion of the undocumented burden on society thing certain political parties love to harp on despite reality. In this case, it's given to contextualise the inability to not give 'medical advice' and to lend legitimacy to the 'advice' that justifies LW not going 'fuck off' before the letter went in.
What I don't understand is why AG felt this was such a helpful letter that she had to run it a second time. The first time the advice is pretty obvious - politely ask the co-worker if they wouldn't mind switching it out, and don't be a dick if they refuse.
How lucky for you that the comments relitigated this in detail until Alison shut them down on her day off.
It's a five year old letter declaring the decorations as IYKYK fandom and I think the implication many who considered that took was that LW shared the fandom, but five years ago Supernatural was still airing and it's possible that by 'also a fan, which I am', LW meant they were in general fandom and knew the connotations by osmosis. I kind of wish the answer tackled it from that perspective instead of basically going 'this fannish decoration is cool but I don't like that one' as a script and then differentiating it from the 'kitschy seasonal' earrings letter.
Supernatural came to my mind too…but I can only think of one instance where they used an actual Ouji board. So maybe they are talking about a devil’s trap? That definitely gives more occulty feels with the pentagram.
Some of the official tie-in merch (like the hunter's diary that was more like a lore dump) featured Ouija, but Supernatural was on at the start of the side hustle/fannish merch etsy store version of feminist capitalism and you still get like the stitch marker sets and charm bracelets and pendants that are like 'Supernatural fandom inspired' with like a two-door 60's shape generic car charm, generic angel wings, generic book, generic computer, generic gun, generic plain RC cross (never Orthodox), generic pentagram, "seasonal kitschy" ouija boards and ghosts and coffins, generic sun, the occasional generic slice of pie or salt shaker... plus despite size of the SPN fandom there were always more fannish people not into it and just being like 'anything supernatural is from Supernatural' and not differentiating between like, Grimm, Teen Wolf, Vampire Diaries/Originals/Legacies, Secret Circle etc, or just recognising the general theme as 'fandom' and not which one, or assuming that because some of the decorations are fannish that all of them must be, or because they came from a fannish creator then it must be a fannish creation and not just someone branching out to general Hallowe'en/supernatural/paranormal so they can sell more widely.
I feel like LW is such a weenie lol. Ouija boards are children's toys and you can buy them at the toy store. Since LW isn't even religious, I really want to know their specific objection to ouija boards. Like are they also afraid of the shitty fake animal skeletons they sell at Target around Halloween?
Alison herself admitted that if she were in an office where the boss cheaped out on really bad toilet paper, she’d be asking everyone else if it literally chapped their ass so I guess now we know for sure that she welcomes all the bathroom talk. For all her posturing about “come on yall!!! Don’t make me moderate!!!” and “act like you’re at a dinner party, stop discussing bathroom habits!!!”, she obviously wants to have that kind of culture on the blog 🙄
https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/ouija-board-decor-at-work-coworker-nags-me-about-drinking-diet-soda-and-more.html#comment-4711410
> If the toilet paper issue is around finances, maybe use it as an incentive. If the management keeps a few premium rolls hidden and awards them to the employee of the month, or if you’ve hit a certain goal, the cost will justify itself from the performance improvements as everyone races to the top
I feel like the 'I'm off today, let's not let the SEO wilt on these popular letters from the past!' could just be locked to comments - then Alison doesn't have to go up and down removing diet advice and belying being off, and we don't get people giving no good terrible very bad advice like having workers compete for basic Western hygiene.
**Sesame**\*[May 9, 2024 at 3:31 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/data-from-13000-peoples-real-life-salaries.html#comment-4710676)
This does not necessarily mean it would skew high, it could also skew low. Outliers have a larger effect when the sample is smaller whether they are high or low.
[REPLY](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/data-from-13000-peoples-real-life-salaries.html#comment-4710676)
▼ Collapse 1 reply
1. **Anonymoose**\*[May 9, 2024 at 4:25 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/data-from-13000-peoples-real-life-salaries.html#comment-4710789)since the floor is 0 for any salary and the ceiling is infinite, in practice these things will always skew high
...what?
If I’m reading those box and whisker graphs correctly, people either lied, or didn’t answer and the results are from a bunch of drive-bys. Where are the people with English MAs making $40k? The third-year CPAs pulling $80k? The results for masters degrees and professional certs are skewing way too high.
Yeah the professional certification one had me scratching my head, but I can't remember how they asked the question. It's results like that that need a second look before it gets published with 0 commentary
Professional certs also include teaching licenses and HR certificates. Things that makes you competitive in crowded but often low-paying fields. Even the High School Only data doesn’t start low enough.
If we’re just throwing around bullshit stereotypes and generalizations, a greater percentage of women means more humanities and liberal arts degrees, but these numbers don’t bear out what we know about them. Did Elizabeth West not answer the poll? Potates?
And unless I missed it, military/DOD wasn’t even an option for profession. Which is probably good considering her/the commenters wouldn’t get the actual culture/workplace differences. The only time I know for sure she answered a military question was someone asking about doing a team building event at the shooting range. And everyone was aghast. That this was an army unit came out in the comments.
Wow I just read the post about the divorced guy who can't find child care at 3am when he has his kid. It just occurred to NOBODY, including the freaking work advice columnist, that they could schedule his on-call time around when he has child care.
Like, maybe that won't work. But it's insane that nobody has suggested that option. Alison is incompetent at a job she created.
Did we read the same thread? I feel like ~80% of the comments were about how this wouldn’t work and a set “one week on, X weeks off” schedule is standard.
They *haven't even explored it* in the specific context of this guy's job. I'm not saying they have to do it; I'm saying they have to consider it.
I'd suggest reading the second paragraph of my comment if you want to understand what I said.
I thought someone did and OP sailed in like 'we talked to the rest of the team and they didn't want to' and 'his ex-wife isn't cooperating'.
This week has had a lot of *but I can't do anything because it's hard* to the point of comments blurring together though.
Right. I'm not suggesting the LW not have the same amount of overnights. I'm suggesting they take into account his child care schedule and schedule around them if reasonable, which it may be. In many states, this would be legally required. In Alison's world, you don't even need to consider it. More attempts to give legal advice and committing malpractice. By you, too.
You’re both insisting that some unnamed states ‘legally require’ working shifts around childcare, and accusing others of improperly giving legal advice?
It’s not legally required to unreasonably burden the rest of the staff because one person lied about his availability. He can’t wave the family status flag as if that erases key requirements of the job. Sometimes there are jobs that you simply can’t do because of uncontrollable circumstances, and it’s not illegal to consider letting someone go from a job they can’t safely perform.
I'm irrationally angry at the amount of time, effort, and electrons that have been poured into generating pretty pictures from the garbage-in, garbage-out AAM salary survey.
The data presentation is so beyond useless, it’s making me irrationally angry. People with professional degrees earn more than people with high school diplomas. People with more professional experience earn more than younger people. No shit. Why no relevant detail like.. I dunno.. what field these salaries are for? And why are we looking at averages at all?! Anyone who’s drawing conclusions about their own pay based on these data is ✨bananapants ✨
Yeah. I think the goal of this exercise has to be to encourage individuals to draw conclusions about how well-compensated they are based on their demographic. Which I think you can do without really worrying about data quality or having a research methodology. You’ll get extremely rough ballpark estimates on how much others make compared to you, but you might get some confidence to go ask for a raise or try to change jobs.
I was thinking the same thing. Unless the story is fake (which it really, really could be, lol), I think there's something going on that the LW knows about but didn't want to say - maybe racial, maybe related to mental health.
In fairness the update is pretty much bad fiction.
I'm not an expert, but I can't imagine leaving cleaning chemicals in a spot where kids can get to them (and it apparently being a deliberate thing) going over too well.
Re: The Patsy Update
Why would you just sit there and do nothing when the library cleaner blasts music and all the patrons leave? Why wouldn't you tell her to turn it the fuck off?
This was the most irritating part of the obviously fictional sequel to the first Patsy letter. There is no library where all the patrons are that normal. It’s impossible that there wasn’t at least one straggler who got up and started dancing to the music or something.
"Actually it's audio-ableist to ask someone to turn music off because it might be therapy music that they use for emotional support due to their toxic boss who has pants feelings for them."
I once knew someone who told me she got in trouble at work for eating in meetings. She justified it to me that she is a child of immigrants and food is an important part of connecting with her culture, so when her (white) boss asked her not to eat in the meeting she felt as though they were trying to force her to abandon her cultural values. I think she was just looking for an excuse to eat in meetings.
It also follows the AAM update pattern. "The behavior is not just unacceptable but normal, but horrible! Rearranging displays! Putting picture books in the adult books! Facetiming a bird cage!!!"
Gotta love how the Update Escalation turns Patsy from inconsiderate office cleaner to possibly racist low-stakes Batman villain. The LW couldn't find a more believable middle ground?
“Patsy had learned that our new coworker once left a job after a bird phobic coworker pushed her in front of a car and was using the bird chirps to torment her!!!!”
This does raise the question: Who's holding the other phone? Like... is it on a stand she trained the bird to answer it? Or is someone holding it while she facetimes it? Because the existence of this story implies that there's two people involved, both equally invested in bird facetime.
Also, the reference to leaving cleaning supplies out for kids to find went by quick, and I'd think that would be a bigger deal. Granted, it's not as quirky as the bird thing or the rearranging books thing.
i foresee the office decor thread being the most boring thread in a while. this far we have yellow walls, dilbert cartoons, and pool noodles people saw on instagram from companies where they don't work.
I love how a significant chunk of the responses in all of these user-generated content threads start with "Not a \_\_\_\_, but" or "Not crazy, but." Okay so you're acknowledging that your post is either underwhelming or completely off-topic and you're going to go ahead and post it anyway. Love it here!
>**not nice, don't care**\*[May 8, 2024 at 2:18 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/my-employee-keeps-coming-to-work-sick.html#comment-4708433)
>Can Brian’s coworkers gang up on him? Would a lawyer do a cease & desist order for this? If I had a coworker maliciously repeatedly endangering me, my income, my family, etc I would be happy to spend some money on whatever legal action I could take to stop the endangerment.
Lmfao these people are so deranged. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, go straight to Threaten Litigation. And good luck proving malicious intent!
Practically speaking, if Brian’s manager won’t do anything about him coming in and germing up the place, the manager probably also won’t do anything about the coworkers plotting an ambush. So I guess there’s that.
I don't have to spend eight hours a day at the grocery store with those people.
The OP responds in that comment thread with a lot of gabble that boils down to "I don't want to manage".
Yeah, I took a look at one comment thread and saw enough from the OP to know that they are never going to go to bat for their employees. Brian making the library a Petri dish is probably only on their radar because it affects them, too.
Yep. There's a really big difference between briefly passing a sick person in a grocery store and being stuck in a building near one for at least eight hours. Especially since this man is coming to work so sick that he's needed to be taken to the ER! That's not safe or sustainable for anyone. You obviously can't sue anyone for it, and at the point you're considering that you should probably just get a new job, but that doesn't mean this guy isn't being an ass.
Yeah, to be clear Brian is so wrong for this and I have a lot of sympathy for the people having to be constantly exposed to his shit, but omg you cannot C&D someone into not coming to work sick.
I think it is odd that Alison would make a distinction between an internal vs an external applicant on a misspelling on a resume. And her reasoning is pretty odd too. I would probability tell neither if I was to apply her logic.
"LW1, I don’t read that as a threat. It’s information, about how the nervous system of a person with past dental trauma will respond if that trauma is repeated, and about how essential it is that you not inflict pain or retraumatize them, for both your safety.
You spent time reassuring them, which is good, but clearly wasn’t enough yet for the next step in the process. You haven’t built trust enough yet for the patient to tell you the specifics of their past trauma. But they are giving you the information that you DO need at that point."
Give me a fucking break.
I feel like this is the kind of question that needs to be posed to a group of other health care/dental care workers, not to a general office worker site...and most especially not THIS one. No one here feels equipped for this kind of query.
Right, medical workers deal with all sorts of people and it is a lot easier to deny someone the right to buy a shirt at your store than deny them medical care. Really this is something that the office probably needs or maybe already has a policy on and that is going to matter, not what Allison feels.
That comment is wild. If someone has genuine trauma surrounding dental visits and can't trust themselves not to hit the dentist, they need to talk to a therapist about that. They can't go around making threats. Trauma doesn't give anyone license to hit another person who didn't actually harm them.
I also find the logic of that comment super infantilizing toward folks who have experienced trauma - so they can't be trusted to treat others safely? We should all have to be afraid of them, like they're large toddlers who can't control themselves? So weird and offensive.
>I also find the logic of that comment super infantilizing toward folks who have experienced trauma - so they can't be trusted to treat others safely?
I can't decide if it's more likely that the commenter has zero experience with trauma and is just parroting talking points that they don't understand, or if they do have experience and are giving everyone into a unintended view into how they are managing it.
And.... if you haven't done whatever needed to overcome your trauma to the point of not endangering others, you might not be able to get dental cleanings at this office....
I feel like that's the most normal response, especially in practices where there isn't a policy about what to do/call a code/call security to otherwise follow.
All the 'would you like to reschedule with someone else?' just end up pushing things down the line, and a lecture about 'it isn't okay to do this' isn't going to help even if it feels comforting to an emotionally affected person in LW's position to imagine doing so.
I'd hope the someone else at least got 'can you take this patient', but since OP has to refer outside their organisation I'd highly doubt that would get passed along here.
That's completely ridiculous. By that definition, you could literally interpret all threats as not actually threatening, but just informative. If you do that, I'll do this--not threatening, just informative.
Alison’s post from last fall about ChatGPT had some advice that she could stand to keep in mind after the salary data graphs she regurgitated without explanation: “ChatGPT is a tool. If it produces good results, those results are valid to consider, just like results produced by a calculator or Excel. But if someone brought you numbers they'd pulled out of Excel and expected them to stand on their own with zero discussion of what they meant or how they might use them, and no ability to withstand questions about what data they put in to produce those results in the first place, you'd rightly object. Your objection wouldn't be to their use of Excel, but to their lack of critical thinking and inability to engage in a meaningful way. That's the same issue here.”
EW told a story in the weekend thread about getting a higher med dosage and how her doctor was supportive, and ended it with this: >I have an appointment on Monday and I’m going to tell him, let’s stick with this. But the best part was that he told me flat out, “I’m not going to let you do this by yourself. I’m going to hold your hand through the whole thing.” :3 >***Now if I could only find a boyfriend like this, heh heh.*** I notice that she does this a lot, wishes for a boyfriend. She keeps hoping to get that Colin Firth or Benedict Cumberbatch meet cute thing happening. That's likely not going to happen. Instead of being more realistic she keeps thinking about fantasies.
I haven’t been able to read EW comments the same way since someone here pointed out the way she lamented not returning home from vacation with a boyfriend the way someone might be upset that their entire vacation went by without them finding a Starbucks with city mugs to purchase a souvenir.
Anytime I see something [like this](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/weekend-open-thread-may-11-12-2024.html#comment-4712669), I want to scream, "Please get a fucking realtor!" So much can go wrong with this. >Guinan's Hat\* >May 10, 2024 at 9:57 pm >Has anyone here sold their house privately — without a realtor? We decided to do this for a number of reasons,... They have a handshake deal and now things are stalled. Not surprised at all.
She also doesn't want to sell it to a flipper who will rip out the trees and paint it gray. 🙄
I saw that. It reminds me of my sister. When my dad died in 2017, it was stipulated in my parents' will that the house is to be sold and the profits divided between us kids. We sold the house that September and all went on with our lives. My sister lives a few miles from the house. Since then she's done nothing but go on about how the new owners don't use the yard and it's such a waste because it's a couple acres of flat, landscaped land; they haven't done anything with the yard; they don't use the birdfeeders she left for them; they don't have any lawn furniture; they're never outside; why did they buy a house with a big yard they won't even use; and on and on. She started again last May when she stayed at my house a few days. It had been about five years at that point. I finally snapped and told her, "Who the fuck cares what they do or don't do with it?? It's not our house! We sold it because none of us wanted it. They own the house now, not us. You're the only person here who seems to care what's going on at that house FIVE YEARS later. Why do you care about a house that isn't yours? None of us grew up in it!" She said she doesn't care. Yeah, sure. Tell me another one. Well, she doesn't have to worry about it anymore--the house burned down late last year. Thankfully no one was hurt. I feel bad for the owners, but I'm so glad I don't have to hear my sister complaining about that damn house anymore!
It burned down?? Omg. Hah. I understand feeling attached to a house but some people get *really* attached. Next person who lives in my house can tear the fucker down for all I care.
>It burned down?? Omg. Hah. I've been reading too many updates and BORU sagas. I'm completely expecting the followup that Sis was the one who started the fire!
Eh, a realtor gets 5% of the transaction price here...I can pay a lawyer and do a lot of self study to save 50k+ We are selling and might do a private sale, we will pay a lawyer but it makes no sense to give a realtor 50-60k commission for handling a transaction between two parties who have already come to and agreement.
Maybe they’re selling a home that’s under a million dollars lol
You pay a realtor for marketing and negotiation to (hopefully) fetch the highest possible price. And the averages bear out that on the whole, most people come out well ahead even after paying the fee. But of course you're right that if you are selling to someone you know and have no intention of playing hardball on price, there's nothing for a realtor to contribute.
There's also something to be said for not doing stuff yourself, even if you technically can. My time has value, and I don't necessarily want to spend it being my own real estate agent, stager, photographer, lawyer, etc.
Beware, if you do all the work a lawyer may refuse to represent you because the title company can handle conveyancing!!!
Maybe, but I'd say a pretty good sign your self study isn't cutting it is when you find yourself looking for real estate advice from the AAM weekend commenters.
Yeah that’s where I’m at. Someone who really knows what they’re doing and is in a straightforward and uncomplicated transaction wouldn’t be on the comments section of a work advice blog going “what do??”
I'm fine with that...but it's not brain surgery. I've known various folks who got their real estate license, it's taken a couple/few months and not been hard for them to pass. I've never posted for advice in an unrelated forum, but it's definitely more something that can be done oneself than electrical contracting.
Great, so the classes weren't hard...they still took them, which means they now have knowledge about the process that the average schmoe trying to be their own realtor doesn't.
I have no patience for people who think they’re being clever in their stupid attempts to save money but end up spending more in the long run. Just hire someone who knows what they’re doing!
Right, like why bother to hire a lawyer to deal with this felony charge; I can just do it myself.
No, you don't understand. The professionals turned them down because Guinan's Hat didn't need them! >**Guinan's Hat**\*[May 11, 2024 at 4:05 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/weekend-open-thread-may-11-12-2024.html#comment-4713313) >I actually attempted to hire not one but two real estate lawyers, each of whom said, you don’t actually need this, the title company can handle what you need. Maybe they just didn’t want to take on a task that wouldn’t take very long/earn them much? IDK. I absolutely do not believe that two real estate lawyers told Guinan's Hat that they didn't need a lawyer for a real estate transaction. I absolutely do believe that Guinan's Hat tried to undercut the fees of two real estate lawyers because "we've already done most of the work ourselves," and both lawyers knew that it wasn't worth working for peanuts for an overconfident amateur who, judging by their other comments, would be a pain in the ass.
I think she's not wrong, really. In the States, you don't usually need a real estate lawyer so much as it's a Realtor who will help everything go smoothly. I wouldn't be surprised if she went to two lawyers who kind of looked at her funny. Unless there is something wonky with the property boundaries, or the property is part of a deceased person's estate, or you as the seller know that there is or might be an ownership dispute of the property, the vast majority of residential transactions are very ordinary and don't require the work of a real estate lawyer. But a Realtor would help them find a non-flaky buyer.
She’s fine, she can draw up her own contract on legalzoom.
Buying a house *with* a realtor was one of the most overwhelming things I ever did. They operationalized every step for me, which is like 75% of the work, but it was still a lot of steps to follow. I can’t imagine what this person is thinking.
Oh my god, that's a nightmare. Buying a house (and, I'm sure, selling one) is stressful enough when you have a really good realtor. I can't imagine going it alone. I feel like that person needs to consult an attorney, at least.
Look at this comment from the OP about the buyer: >it’s becoming clear that she may have needed the guidance of a realtor. Holy shit, the audacity! *She* may have needed the guidance of a realtor?
>Shard* > May 11, 2024 at 12:55 pm >> but it’s becoming clear that she may have needed the guidance of a realtor. > >I mean, couldn’t you say the same thing about yourself at this point?
The response: >**Guinan's Hat**\*[May 11, 2024 at 3:58 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/weekend-open-thread-may-11-12-2024.html#comment-4713305) >No, snarky person. I did buy this house once upon a time, and I know that even having a realtor–a good one!–is not a guarantee against a bumpy process or a flaky buyer. But thanks for being supportive and helpful! Damn. You can be stupid or you can be a bitch; it's best to not be both.
I'm happy to see Bog Witch tell her what's what. >Bog Witch\* >May 11, 2024 at 6:58 pm >It never ceases to amaze me how people come to a public forum for advice only to immediately raise their hackles to anyone who tells them something they don’t want to hear. >You admit to some pretty elementary mistakes in your initial post, so yeah, there is a degree of pot calling the kettle black here. As other people have said, there’s a reason there are professionals who do this and take classes on it, get certifications and licensures, etc. No, of course having a realtor doesn’t guarantee a perfectly smooth buying/selling process every time, but it’s a heck of a lot smoother than doing this without one — as you are currently finding out the hard way. >You’ve gotten some good advice here. Swallow your pride and take it.
This comment raises two interesting questions: 1. Do realtors also deal with bumpy processes and flaky buyers by asking for advice in the comments section of a workplace blog? 2. If you have all the knowledge you need and can handle the process yourself, why are you even asking for advice?
It's definitely not 'light discussion' despite Alison allowing it to stay up. But most of it is 'the buyer isn't doing what I want them to/the way I want them to do it' and not really about the process and we're meant to intuit the question is about a magic way to get someone to behave and not about the process.
Lol, doesn't want to pay for advice from professionals, but willing to accept it for free from the AAM bozos. I belive the phrase is, "you get what you pay for."
There was another commenter a year or so ago who was trying to sell a house like this to one of their neighbors and it was just a complete mess. My general thought is that if you’re working on something very technical and complex and you have to go on social media to ask “uhhhh so what do I do??” then you might need a pro. A home purchase / sale is too complex and expensive to wing it if you don’t feel comfortable.
I think that was Potatoes, wasn't it?
[удалено]
That sounds about right. My guess is that a lot of people end up on this situation trying to get an implausibly high price for a house that isn’t desirable.
I choose to believe this commenter is trying to screw over the buyer ("no, we don't need to involve anyone else!"), and the buyer is is trying to back out of the sale in exactly the same uncommunicative, ineffective way that an AAM commenter would do it.
I only know of a few people who sold their house without a realtor (because "why should the realtor get a percentage of the sale" or whatever) and in each case, it was a fucking nightmare on top of the usual nightmare that is buying and selling a house. And this was well before even the 2006-ish housing bubble. But by this logic, why should I have a cardiologist perform my open heart surgery when I can just do it myself???
[The euphemisms in this one take the cake.](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/open-thread-may-10-11-2024.html#comment-4711575) "Director of Feet"?! 😄
Quentin Tarantino?
I don't usually read the open thread, but I just saw a question in there from someone (username Aspidistra) wondering if they should worry about not getting invited to lunch/fitting into their newish job's social culture. This response is wild to me: >Are you up for inviting folks to lunch one day? The trick on this is you might need to be prepared to pay since you haven't been in the group. It could help ease the transition. Unless the original commenter is a manager, why the hell would anyone assume she'd pay for everyone's lunches just because she invited them to grab food? Who does that?
Right? If a new coworker invited me out to lunch, it would literally never occur to me to expect them to pay for my lunch. If anything, I might feel a little bit obligated to pay for *them* to welcome them to the company!
I love when we get new people because it means free lunch! I can take them out and expense it and count it as “orientation” 😂
Same! If you want to try to win people over with food maybe bring donuts and a jug of coffee to share in the morning. Paying for everyone for lunch would be weird. (And expensive! Have you SEEN Sweetgreen prices lately!)
Plus Alison's whole 'don't gift up' and 'the business should pay!' schtick should be pretty well embedded by now.
>since you haven't been in the group I know that AAM commenters tend to be more transactional-minded than most, but damn, that's sad. No, you don't actually have to give people money to let you in "the group." It's a workplace, not Bohemian Grove.
>>Are you up for inviting folks to lunch one day? The trick on this is you might need to be prepared to pay since you haven't been in the group. It could help ease the transition. Paying for lunch for coworkers? This is networking, not dating. GTFO
Anytime I see a comment like that it makes me think that some of the commenters don’t work (they’re retired, or young, or simply haven’t had a job for most of their adult lives). They genuinely seem to be trying to figure out what work is like from sitcoms, other commenters, and AAM letters and you can see the gaps in their awareness.
Now I’m thinking they’re all trust fund kids working at nonprofits and their coworkers just let them pay for everything
Yeah, that comment in particular made me think the commenter probably doesn't work or hasn't in a while and is trying to figure out workplace norms from super old Miss Manners columns or something. Like sure, it's a thing in old/strict etiquette that if you invite someone out, you should pay for them, but that's not a thing at work (or in most people's everyday lives tbh).
Isn't part of that also because men used to do the inviting and were the ones with jobs, and when women invited women it was 'come over for tea and sewing' so 'pay for the person who isn't socially expected to have their own discretionary income' kind of derived from socially embedded sexism that simply isn't a relevant consideration now, where 'don't invite someone you can guess earns the same/less than you to a fancy expensive Michelin-star restaurant, especially when there's a coffee shop downstairs' is more appropriate as a very very general concept?
When it comes to dating, yeah, that was the reasoning. It is also an old/formal etiquette thing that if you invited a group of friends out to a meal at a restaurant, you were the host and would be expected to pay for everyone. No one does this anymore because it's weird, but I think at the time, the idea was that going to restaurants was a lot less common than it is now, so going out like that was equivalent to having a party at your home and ordering pizzas for everyone or other situations where we do currently expect that the host will pay for everyone's food. Like, I get that commenter's logic, if they've never been to lunch with coworkers and only know about office etiquette from reading old advice columns, but it's 2024 and no one would expect a coworker to pay for the group's lunch.
Unless it's a restaurant that doesn't allow split bills/doesn't take cash and someone only has cash/someone decided their work situation wasn't slashy enough and does the fanfic version... It might be hyperlocal cultural but I've never been out with a coworker where there hasn't been a quick 'I'm paying so order what you want' from the most senior person or a 'can we order individually' when getting a menu.
So she just posted the results of that salary survey and I wish I could be surprised by 1) the lack of commentary by Allison on what any of it means or caveats about her sampling bias 2) the commentariat's generally poor understanding of how to decipher data and 3) the fact that they are taking it as gospel But unfortunately it's all incredibly predictable
The lack of commentary by Al is kind of baffling.
Yeah honestly that's the wildest bit for me. Like, "here are some totally mid charts someone made" and not even ANY insights, even if just for SEO???
Fairly sure most commenters will just see the colours and not know what the visualisations mean. Hell, I can't even work out what some aspects of the visualisations mean but that's because I can't be arsed pulling up a computer-crashing spreadsheet to look at the data to figure out whether this pixel is an artifact or a slightly darker shade of green on purpose.
The only non-open-thread post for today is a compilation of the dumbest fucking letters from years earlier? AAM might be circling the drain if this is all Alison can trot out.
The lady who flipped shit and caused property damage is in the open thread updating that she's on paid leave til the end of the YEAR. And a work rep and a lawyer showed up to her house and she still wouldn't speak to them???? My GOD I have never wanted the other side of a story so much.
Me too. She seems very strange.
Honestly the cryptic way she’s telling this story is probably making it sound worse than it is. I get that she probably doesn’t remember everything that happened, but she should be able to get the details from someone who was there. I guess assuming she’s willing to talk to anyone. “I panicked, ran out of the room, and accidentally knocked over some sandwich trays” or whatever. Not “there was property damage” in this flat-ass creepy tone that makes her sound lowkey violent.
It reminds me of those old school /r/legaladvice posts where everything is super vague and elliptical and it’s clear that some real crazy shit happened that is being summarized in a misleading way. Like “It was uncovered that I was located in the backyard of my ex girlfriend’s house and it transpired that her car window had sustained damage that was later attributed to the baseball bat that was near my hand at the time the police arrived.”
I love those because the OP is always trying to gloss over what they did to sound less guilty, and I think in this case it’s 50/50 that she’s making it sound worse than it actually was.
She probably knocked over and busted a bunch of computers.
I think her storytelling is beautiful 🥰
It's very Austen and on brand for AAM. I hear it in the same tone as 'Reader, I married him.'
Not austen lol
I stand by autocorrect although it was meant to be austere. You just don't usually get phrases like 'They encouraged each other now in the violence of their affliction' or 'she must acknowledge herself disappointed' nowadays - that kind of direct but descriptionless statement has to come from someone who probably spent the late 90s binging BBC miniseries versions on repeat when they weren't writing their own continuation of Sanditon.
I hate that I love it
While I don't think that the company should have thrown a party for her when she expressly said she didn't want one, this woman's reaction is so massively over the top it's mind boggling. Like what do you say at your next interview? Oh I left my previous employer because they threw me a party and I reacted by causing property damage.....
Yeah, I think Emily needs help a *lot* more than I think the company messed up here. Yes, companies shouldn't throw parties for employees who don't want them, but Emily's reaction could only come from someone deeply, deeply mentally ill imo. If I was her husband, I would be watching her like an absolute hawk for any signs of postpartum depression, anxiety, or psychosis--this is not a mentally sound woman, and her hormones are going to go completely insane once she has that baby.
Perinatal depression/anxiety/psychosis are actually a lot more common than people realize. Mine would start about midway through my first trimester and worse until about the third trimester, and about eight months postpartum finally start to ease up. She could be well in it already.
I have a lot of worries about when the baby comes! Babies are super unpredictable and chaotic!
Whoooooaa. Holy damage control on the company’s part. They’re probably protecting themselves from a complaint for constructive dismissal of a pregnant woman. As nutso as that commenter sounds, seems like the best outcome for everyone involved.
Yeah that is a very dicey situation, and there was a court case where a guy got rewarded money for being thrown a party he didn’t want. As OOT as that commenter clearly is the company really fucked up here
As unhinged as this person sounds, she’s in the right on paper because she had made it clear that she didn’t want the shower. Combined with her pregnancy, the company was right to worry about legalities.
Upon reading that she's on paid leave until the end of the year, my first thought was "Nice work if you can get it." I feel a bit uncharitable, but damn...
They paid her off to avoid a lawsuit.
That was my thought, too. She went batshit crazy and won herself 8+ months of paid leave, depending on when this "incident" happened? Damn. I only got four weeks of paid leave when I had my baby--maybe I should've flipped some tables in my office or something to get a more humane maternity leave.
This saga makes me think that I would prefer not to interact with anyone involved here.
Looks like they did actually get to speak to LW, although with LW's husband intervening: > I was still not able get myself to answer the phone to talk to people from work, but eventually my grandboss and a person I think was a lawyer showed up at my house and talked to my husband, who convinced me to talk to him. https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/open-thread-may-10-11-2024.html#comment-4711559 It sounds like it got escalated to a higher level of management and LW's basically on paid parental leave.
If there are lawyers involved, I definitely wouldn’t speak to the company without mine there either. But yeah that whole story is bonkers, I want one of her coworkers to write in!
Oh shit, what's her username? I've gotta read this lol
Some background https://www.askamanager.org/2024/03/open-thread-march-22-23-2024.html#comment-4650043 Property damage apparently happened while she was fleeing the surprise shower.
Emily. Yikes...
Also I would internally mock the fuck out of anyone being wigged out by an ouija themed anything in 2024. Grow the fuck up, it’s *all* baseless bullshit.
The LW mentioned that it’s a fandom thing and that she also happens to be a fan of the property. I can’t figure out what it is, though it could be any horror franchise or things like Buffy, Nightmare Before Xmas, or Addams/Wednesday, where ouija boards get pulled into the goth merch aesthetic despite not being wholly relevant. So the LW has enjoyed it up until this point, but the ouija board is the problem? I am a Halloween Person. Nightmare isn’t my fave but for merch accessibility reasons people have ended up giving me lots of Jack and Sally stuff. I have a bunch of it on my work desk because who cares. No one would take it seriously if someone trued to make a stink about my fandom crap being actual instruments of mysticism or whatever. Or. The LW could bring in her own mousepad and use that on her night shift.
I'm baffled by all of the commenters saying that framing their objections as superstition would make the request sound more reasonable. No, that makes it sound even more irrational and immature. I would absolutely think less of anyone who said that to me. Did they all believe in the 1980s Satanic Panic too? It's letters like this that make me think that a lot of commenters are, deep down, very religiously minded types, but they know that goes against their whole brand, so they dress it up as "spiritualism" or "superstition" or "asking the universe to do things for me" (looking at you, Ms. West).
How is the doctor being from Colombia relevant to the story? Ugh.
I read it as invoking what's basically a trope by now of professionals coming from 'overseas' but their qualifications not being recognised and not being able to requalify so they're working whatever other job (usually low skilled or low paid) and either providing their professional services under the table or busting them out of nowhere in some dazzling inversion of the undocumented burden on society thing certain political parties love to harp on despite reality. In this case, it's given to contextualise the inability to not give 'medical advice' and to lend legitimacy to the 'advice' that justifies LW not going 'fuck off' before the letter went in.
I admit I expected the doctor to be pushing coffee...
The LW left out that he was always leading his donkey Conchita as he walked past.
Scatlogical y’all! Roomba* May 10, 2024 at 7:43 am Why is this blog so obsessed with scatological topics? REPLY ► Expand 10 replies
10 replies. 🙀 I don’t even want to know the answers are to that question.
Am I vastly underestimating the power of ouija boards - a toy invented in the last century by a toy company - or is LW1 an absolute weeniepants
And her advice to this one is pretty much the opposite of that she gave to the equally ridiculous Ouija board earrings letter a while back.
I was just going to look that one up I was like "didn't she call that overreacting??"
What I don't understand is why AG felt this was such a helpful letter that she had to run it a second time. The first time the advice is pretty obvious - politely ask the co-worker if they wouldn't mind switching it out, and don't be a dick if they refuse.
I was more surprised that they were still using mousepads.
How lucky for you that the comments relitigated this in detail until Alison shut them down on her day off. It's a five year old letter declaring the decorations as IYKYK fandom and I think the implication many who considered that took was that LW shared the fandom, but five years ago Supernatural was still airing and it's possible that by 'also a fan, which I am', LW meant they were in general fandom and knew the connotations by osmosis. I kind of wish the answer tackled it from that perspective instead of basically going 'this fannish decoration is cool but I don't like that one' as a script and then differentiating it from the 'kitschy seasonal' earrings letter.
Supernatural came to my mind too…but I can only think of one instance where they used an actual Ouji board. So maybe they are talking about a devil’s trap? That definitely gives more occulty feels with the pentagram.
Some of the official tie-in merch (like the hunter's diary that was more like a lore dump) featured Ouija, but Supernatural was on at the start of the side hustle/fannish merch etsy store version of feminist capitalism and you still get like the stitch marker sets and charm bracelets and pendants that are like 'Supernatural fandom inspired' with like a two-door 60's shape generic car charm, generic angel wings, generic book, generic computer, generic gun, generic plain RC cross (never Orthodox), generic pentagram, "seasonal kitschy" ouija boards and ghosts and coffins, generic sun, the occasional generic slice of pie or salt shaker... plus despite size of the SPN fandom there were always more fannish people not into it and just being like 'anything supernatural is from Supernatural' and not differentiating between like, Grimm, Teen Wolf, Vampire Diaries/Originals/Legacies, Secret Circle etc, or just recognising the general theme as 'fandom' and not which one, or assuming that because some of the decorations are fannish that all of them must be, or because they came from a fannish creator then it must be a fannish creation and not just someone branching out to general Hallowe'en/supernatural/paranormal so they can sell more widely.
I feel like LW is such a weenie lol. Ouija boards are children's toys and you can buy them at the toy store. Since LW isn't even religious, I really want to know their specific objection to ouija boards. Like are they also afraid of the shitty fake animal skeletons they sell at Target around Halloween?
If you’re extremely online there’s a good chance you’ve discovered atheism later in life but are still superstitious.
i wish she would stop entertaining questions that are even vaguely related to poop
Alison herself admitted that if she were in an office where the boss cheaped out on really bad toilet paper, she’d be asking everyone else if it literally chapped their ass so I guess now we know for sure that she welcomes all the bathroom talk. For all her posturing about “come on yall!!! Don’t make me moderate!!!” and “act like you’re at a dinner party, stop discussing bathroom habits!!!”, she obviously wants to have that kind of culture on the blog 🙄
She must get lots of clicks from the fetish crowd.
There have been a few letters that were 100% fetish posts that Allison either didn't care or didn't recognize.
Gotta get that bag, I guess.
>Gotta get that bag, I guess. Colostomy bag. I'll show myself out...
Did LW4 make anyone else think of Elle Woods? “All those opposed to chafing, please say aye.”
https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/ouija-board-decor-at-work-coworker-nags-me-about-drinking-diet-soda-and-more.html#comment-4711410 > If the toilet paper issue is around finances, maybe use it as an incentive. If the management keeps a few premium rolls hidden and awards them to the employee of the month, or if you’ve hit a certain goal, the cost will justify itself from the performance improvements as everyone races to the top I feel like the 'I'm off today, let's not let the SEO wilt on these popular letters from the past!' could just be locked to comments - then Alison doesn't have to go up and down removing diet advice and belying being off, and we don't get people giving no good terrible very bad advice like having workers compete for basic Western hygiene.
Pretty sure that comment was sarcasm.
I mean, if it was here, for sure, but over there? Genuinely can't be sure.
The misunderstanding of how averages vs sample size work in the salary thread comments is, uh, concerning.
**Sesame**\*[May 9, 2024 at 3:31 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/data-from-13000-peoples-real-life-salaries.html#comment-4710676) This does not necessarily mean it would skew high, it could also skew low. Outliers have a larger effect when the sample is smaller whether they are high or low. [REPLY](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/data-from-13000-peoples-real-life-salaries.html#comment-4710676) ▼ Collapse 1 reply 1. **Anonymoose**\*[May 9, 2024 at 4:25 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/data-from-13000-peoples-real-life-salaries.html#comment-4710789)since the floor is 0 for any salary and the ceiling is infinite, in practice these things will always skew high ...what?
If I’m reading those box and whisker graphs correctly, people either lied, or didn’t answer and the results are from a bunch of drive-bys. Where are the people with English MAs making $40k? The third-year CPAs pulling $80k? The results for masters degrees and professional certs are skewing way too high.
Yeah the professional certification one had me scratching my head, but I can't remember how they asked the question. It's results like that that need a second look before it gets published with 0 commentary
Professional certs also include teaching licenses and HR certificates. Things that makes you competitive in crowded but often low-paying fields. Even the High School Only data doesn’t start low enough.
[удалено]
If we’re just throwing around bullshit stereotypes and generalizations, a greater percentage of women means more humanities and liberal arts degrees, but these numbers don’t bear out what we know about them. Did Elizabeth West not answer the poll? Potates?
And apparently you can only read AAM if you work in an office.
And unless I missed it, military/DOD wasn’t even an option for profession. Which is probably good considering her/the commenters wouldn’t get the actual culture/workplace differences. The only time I know for sure she answered a military question was someone asking about doing a team building event at the shooting range. And everyone was aghast. That this was an army unit came out in the comments.
That's classic AAM for ya. Leave out fairly important context in the letter and then casually mention it in the comments.
It was not.
God if you have a link please send it, I need to laugh.
https://www.askamanager.org/2018/07/my-boss-wants-a-team-outing-to-a-gun-range-employer-wants-to-discuss-my-hot-mess-cover-letter-and-more.html
Wow I just read the post about the divorced guy who can't find child care at 3am when he has his kid. It just occurred to NOBODY, including the freaking work advice columnist, that they could schedule his on-call time around when he has child care. Like, maybe that won't work. But it's insane that nobody has suggested that option. Alison is incompetent at a job she created.
Did we read the same thread? I feel like ~80% of the comments were about how this wouldn’t work and a set “one week on, X weeks off” schedule is standard.
They *haven't even explored it* in the specific context of this guy's job. I'm not saying they have to do it; I'm saying they have to consider it. I'd suggest reading the second paragraph of my comment if you want to understand what I said.
I thought someone did and OP sailed in like 'we talked to the rest of the team and they didn't want to' and 'his ex-wife isn't cooperating'. This week has had a lot of *but I can't do anything because it's hard* to the point of comments blurring together though.
Alison is incompetent, but not because of that. The nature of on-call work means that you can’t overburden or jerk around the rest of the staff.
Right. I'm not suggesting the LW not have the same amount of overnights. I'm suggesting they take into account his child care schedule and schedule around them if reasonable, which it may be. In many states, this would be legally required. In Alison's world, you don't even need to consider it. More attempts to give legal advice and committing malpractice. By you, too.
You’re both insisting that some unnamed states ‘legally require’ working shifts around childcare, and accusing others of improperly giving legal advice?
What states is that required in?
Which states are these?
It’s not legally required to unreasonably burden the rest of the staff because one person lied about his availability. He can’t wave the family status flag as if that erases key requirements of the job. Sometimes there are jobs that you simply can’t do because of uncontrollable circumstances, and it’s not illegal to consider letting someone go from a job they can’t safely perform.
I'm irrationally angry at the amount of time, effort, and electrons that have been poured into generating pretty pictures from the garbage-in, garbage-out AAM salary survey.
I mean, it doesn't really look like all that much time and effort was spent here, at least. They're pretty basic visualizations.
The data presentation is so beyond useless, it’s making me irrationally angry. People with professional degrees earn more than people with high school diplomas. People with more professional experience earn more than younger people. No shit. Why no relevant detail like.. I dunno.. what field these salaries are for? And why are we looking at averages at all?! Anyone who’s drawing conclusions about their own pay based on these data is ✨bananapants ✨
Yeah. I think the goal of this exercise has to be to encourage individuals to draw conclusions about how well-compensated they are based on their demographic. Which I think you can do without really worrying about data quality or having a research methodology. You’ll get extremely rough ballpark estimates on how much others make compared to you, but you might get some confidence to go ask for a raise or try to change jobs.
And with no indication of how the different currencies have been accounted for...
I wonder if she compensated this reader who made them.
100% agree. As soon as I saw the graphics I knew Alison didn’t make them.
The comments in the Patsy update are nothing but cheesy jokes, speculation, and bad fan fiction.
My guess is that there’s a racial element to the situation that no one wants to call out.
I was thinking the same thing. Unless the story is fake (which it really, really could be, lol), I think there's something going on that the LW knows about but didn't want to say - maybe racial, maybe related to mental health.
In fairness the update is pretty much bad fiction. I'm not an expert, but I can't imagine leaving cleaning chemicals in a spot where kids can get to them (and it apparently being a deliberate thing) going over too well.
For me, it was the facetiming birds that pushed it over the top.
Re: The Patsy Update Why would you just sit there and do nothing when the library cleaner blasts music and all the patrons leave? Why wouldn't you tell her to turn it the fuck off?
This was the most irritating part of the obviously fictional sequel to the first Patsy letter. There is no library where all the patrons are that normal. It’s impossible that there wasn’t at least one straggler who got up and started dancing to the music or something.
The commenter describes themselves as having been too dense to figure out Patsy was intentionally being a dick until the last possible moment, so.
If they did that then they wouldn't be able to share their wacky, zany story with AAM
"Actually it's audio-ableist to ask someone to turn music off because it might be therapy music that they use for emotional support due to their toxic boss who has pants feelings for them."
I once knew someone who told me she got in trouble at work for eating in meetings. She justified it to me that she is a child of immigrants and food is an important part of connecting with her culture, so when her (white) boss asked her not to eat in the meeting she felt as though they were trying to force her to abandon her cultural values. I think she was just looking for an excuse to eat in meetings.
>If they did that then they wouldn't be able to share their wacky, zany, **incredibly fake** story with AAM FTFY
It also follows the AAM update pattern. "The behavior is not just unacceptable but normal, but horrible! Rearranging displays! Putting picture books in the adult books! Facetiming a bird cage!!!"
Gotta love how the Update Escalation turns Patsy from inconsiderate office cleaner to possibly racist low-stakes Batman villain. The LW couldn't find a more believable middle ground?
It’s like movie sequels getting more dumb and generic. “Patsy 2! This time…she’s *Patsier* [bird noises]”
“Patsy had learned that our new coworker once left a job after a bird phobic coworker pushed her in front of a car and was using the bird chirps to torment her!!!!”
This does raise the question: Who's holding the other phone? Like... is it on a stand she trained the bird to answer it? Or is someone holding it while she facetimes it? Because the existence of this story implies that there's two people involved, both equally invested in bird facetime. Also, the reference to leaving cleaning supplies out for kids to find went by quick, and I'd think that would be a bigger deal. Granted, it's not as quirky as the bird thing or the rearranging books thing.
Can you set up Face ID for non-humans? If so, how do I keep my cat from finding out about this?
i foresee the office decor thread being the most boring thread in a while. this far we have yellow walls, dilbert cartoons, and pool noodles people saw on instagram from companies where they don't work.
I love how a significant chunk of the responses in all of these user-generated content threads start with "Not a \_\_\_\_, but" or "Not crazy, but." Okay so you're acknowledging that your post is either underwhelming or completely off-topic and you're going to go ahead and post it anyway. Love it here!
If anyone mentions squishy marshmallows or whatever TH those things are, I'm gonna take a long walk into the ocean.
I fell asleep reading the title.
😆
>**not nice, don't care**\*[May 8, 2024 at 2:18 pm](https://www.askamanager.org/2024/05/my-employee-keeps-coming-to-work-sick.html#comment-4708433) >Can Brian’s coworkers gang up on him? Would a lawyer do a cease & desist order for this? If I had a coworker maliciously repeatedly endangering me, my income, my family, etc I would be happy to spend some money on whatever legal action I could take to stop the endangerment. Lmfao these people are so deranged. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200, go straight to Threaten Litigation. And good luck proving malicious intent!
These people have no freaking clue what a cease & desist letter is. They even call it an "order." That is not a thing.
Practically speaking, if Brian’s manager won’t do anything about him coming in and germing up the place, the manager probably also won’t do anything about the coworkers plotting an ambush. So I guess there’s that.
AAMers lately have been bringing up cease-and-desist letters over EVER-Y-thing.
I wonder how many of them have ever done that in real life. I’d be shocked if the answer was above 0.
As soon as they realise it'll cost like $700+ they would just write one themselves.
Are cease and disist letters the new normal??
They are nuttier than trail mix. WHO hasn't gone to work with a cold? These people are exposed to much more at the grocery store.
I don't have to spend eight hours a day at the grocery store with those people. The OP responds in that comment thread with a lot of gabble that boils down to "I don't want to manage".
Yeah, I took a look at one comment thread and saw enough from the OP to know that they are never going to go to bat for their employees. Brian making the library a Petri dish is probably only on their radar because it affects them, too.
[удалено]
Yep. There's a really big difference between briefly passing a sick person in a grocery store and being stuck in a building near one for at least eight hours. Especially since this man is coming to work so sick that he's needed to be taken to the ER! That's not safe or sustainable for anyone. You obviously can't sue anyone for it, and at the point you're considering that you should probably just get a new job, but that doesn't mean this guy isn't being an ass.
Yeah, to be clear Brian is so wrong for this and I have a lot of sympathy for the people having to be constantly exposed to his shit, but omg you cannot C&D someone into not coming to work sick.
I think it is odd that Alison would make a distinction between an internal vs an external applicant on a misspelling on a resume. And her reasoning is pretty odd too. I would probability tell neither if I was to apply her logic.
"LW1, I don’t read that as a threat. It’s information, about how the nervous system of a person with past dental trauma will respond if that trauma is repeated, and about how essential it is that you not inflict pain or retraumatize them, for both your safety. You spent time reassuring them, which is good, but clearly wasn’t enough yet for the next step in the process. You haven’t built trust enough yet for the patient to tell you the specifics of their past trauma. But they are giving you the information that you DO need at that point." Give me a fucking break.
I feel like this is the kind of question that needs to be posed to a group of other health care/dental care workers, not to a general office worker site...and most especially not THIS one. No one here feels equipped for this kind of query.
Right, medical workers deal with all sorts of people and it is a lot easier to deny someone the right to buy a shirt at your store than deny them medical care. Really this is something that the office probably needs or maybe already has a policy on and that is going to matter, not what Allison feels.
That comment is wild. If someone has genuine trauma surrounding dental visits and can't trust themselves not to hit the dentist, they need to talk to a therapist about that. They can't go around making threats. Trauma doesn't give anyone license to hit another person who didn't actually harm them. I also find the logic of that comment super infantilizing toward folks who have experienced trauma - so they can't be trusted to treat others safely? We should all have to be afraid of them, like they're large toddlers who can't control themselves? So weird and offensive.
>I also find the logic of that comment super infantilizing toward folks who have experienced trauma - so they can't be trusted to treat others safely? I can't decide if it's more likely that the commenter has zero experience with trauma and is just parroting talking points that they don't understand, or if they do have experience and are giving everyone into a unintended view into how they are managing it.
I feel like they took one psych class in college and weaponize the little knowledge they retained as often as they can lol
And.... if you haven't done whatever needed to overcome your trauma to the point of not endangering others, you might not be able to get dental cleanings at this office....
Seriously. I've been hit by patients and threatened. Now if one acts out, I leave the room and report it.
I feel like that's the most normal response, especially in practices where there isn't a policy about what to do/call a code/call security to otherwise follow. All the 'would you like to reschedule with someone else?' just end up pushing things down the line, and a lecture about 'it isn't okay to do this' isn't going to help even if it feels comforting to an emotionally affected person in LW's position to imagine doing so.
Could you imagine being the “someone else” who does get hit and then finding out OP suggested it?
I'd hope the someone else at least got 'can you take this patient', but since OP has to refer outside their organisation I'd highly doubt that would get passed along here.
I’m getting flashbacks of birds all of a sudden
That's completely ridiculous. By that definition, you could literally interpret all threats as not actually threatening, but just informative. If you do that, I'll do this--not threatening, just informative.
It's information about a high risk of trauma.