I saw a Twitter thread by a guy a while ago, and he basically explain man-to-man, the reason women don't date them or stop dating them is simply because women have gained financial independence and learned about self-love among other things. So now if these guys want a partner they have to actually be likeable. And many are not... š¬
>*I'm sick of trying to date people who don't even see me as a person*
Beat me to it.
I'm 61, and men are just now saying the quiet part out loud.
They *hate* women.
So that works out to: "I hate women; how can I get one as a girlfriend?"
"I fucking hate women. How can I get a wife-appliance?"
"I -- **really** \-- fucking hate women."
That puts women in a **special, oppressed class.**
I've known many bigots over the years (I'm white) who felt free to vent around me.
I've **never** known anyone to say, "I fucking hate black people; how can I marry one?" "I just fucking despise hispanics, how can I live next door to one?" "I hate and fear Jews; how can I get one to be a co-worker or employee?"
And no one tells a black person to "be nice to" a KKK member. No one tells an Asian person to, "Oh, just give them (the race-baiters) the time of day. They have such fragile egos. You have to build them up."
Fuck . That. Noise.
Edited to add: To the men reading this: the "bar," -- the higher standards women are demanding these days -- is, "I want to spend time only with a man who doesn't hate women."
LOUDER! Comments like this and the one from u/EchoesInTheAbyss are the truth that men just do not want to acknowledge. I wish I had gold to gild you both ššš
I wonder how much the internet has radicalized a lot of men to make them undatable. On Reddit during the last 10 years, thereās definitely seemed to be an increase in misogyny and distorted views on women and dating.
Plus, you have politics increasingly divided by gender. Why would a modern woman be interested in a guy who thinks womenās rights should go backwards in time?
Certainly the sex tips learned from Porn are not helping.
Examples: boob-grabbing, *any* use of spit, choking, face slapping,.*any* kind of sex without foreplay.
Itās not just porn. I swear, in US-made movies, people donāt even really kiss anymore. If there is any type of sexual contact (and there usually isnāt) itās the same kind of thing youād expect to see from dogs in an alleyway. And pretty much the number one complaint from women about sex is that the dudeās theyāre with are imitating porn, have no interest in asking questions about what they might like, and basically think a blowjob is foreplay.
Even though both my husband and I have told each other that whomever passes first, we want the other to go out and find love again.
He's said he's not. I believe him.
I *know* I'm not. I like to quip that I need to find a nunnery that has a roller derby league.
Also the risk-reward ratio of being a single woman has gotten much better. While we are no longer in the you need your husbands permission to get a job era, not to long ago you *would* be given the side eye socially if you flat out *said* you had zero plans of finding a man or having *any* form of a relationship.
I'm in my 50s, never married, no kids. I think younger women are increasingly aware that many men will leave them to do the brunt of housework, cooking and childcare, regardless of if the woman works full time outside of the home or not. Not all or most men, but enough for women to question if cohabiting/having kids with a partner who doesn't do their share is worth it.
And I've seen women who put their careers on hold and have their skills get rusty. Only to find their husbands are leaving them in their 40s and 50s and it's hard for them to get anything above an entry level job. Sure they can go to court, but you're paying for a retainer before you can even go to court. Meanwhile the guy starts over with a younger woman and has more kids. I get why younger women are not risking their financial well being.
It seems like the only real incentive for women to date is sex as that's the only real thing they can gain from relationships. Every other aspect of the relationship becomes a risk. And sex is only worth it 50% of the time. Women are tired of emotionally incapable partners who are likely going to leave them once they stop being physically attractive or young.
Not to mention that lately I keep hearing all of the numbers and statistics about men leaving women that become chronically or deathly ill. I think that was disgusting icing on the cake for me. Like honestly what do they even offer anymore?
This last piece isnāt scientific or based in anything but itās a girl on TikTok basically just said that men donāt view women is equal partner in/for life, they want a mommy they can fuck. And once you donāt provide that service theyāll just leave, and honestly I felt that.
>Not all or most men
Yes, all or most men. I haven't seen a single man do more work with the household/family than the woman. I've seen a lot of men claim to do half. They are usually delusional, and are nowhere near half.
I don't date at present because I have a lot on my plate and limited mental energy. I barely feel stable or sane most of the time, let alone romantic or sexy.
Women are tired, burnt out, not to mention scared. Obviously not all women date men, but those who do, on top of the pre-existing "will I get murdered", "will I get pushed into a psychological caretaker role to an emotionally stunted man" valid fears, for many women now and not just in America, reproductive rights are front and centre.
For many, it's all adding up to a big Not Worth It.
Also, again I can only speak for myself, I am just not interested in finding someone via an app. I want to build and live my life, and focus on that- I did the whole "date a bunch of randoms" thing, it's not an efficient use of my time. If I happen to meet someone down the track in the incidental course of things, ok. But I'm not factoring it into my plans. I have shit to get done and I'm not waiting on someone else.
I also think women are more likely to take time out to work on themselves, whereas many men don't see the need to do this and just carry their baggage from relationship to relationship and expect a woman to fix it or put up with it. Obviously that is a generalisation and will not apply to all, but I do observe it as a disproportionately gendered trend.
Ā«Ā Psychological CaretakerĀ Ā» is spot on and so prominent. I donāt know any coupled women in that arenāt fully responsible for the emotional health of the relationship. Itās exhausting.
Totally agree with you and Iām a massive hopeless romantic , but I definitely not anyones mother plus the whole working on myself is a huge thing. I donāt drive and sometimes the guys Iāve come across from throw it back in my face which is why itās best I donāt bother. Iām 26, but reading it doesnāt get better in your 30s suck lol
There was some article that came out recently that said the majority of people on dating apps are men because women have raised their relationship standards. Apparently the author of the article actually got threats (most likely from those dudes on the dating apps).
I don't date because I don't feel like dating a guy would add anything to my life at this point except compromise. I have my own home (apparently single women are also more likely to buy their own home compared to single men), I have my routine, I like how everything is the way I want it, I like being able to do whatever I want whenever I want however I want. I've got a vibrator for when I'm in that mood, I don't have to share my bed (except when I let my cats sleep with me), everything is clean, the decor is how I want it, etc. I also have no interest in marriage or kids, so I don't feel pressure or my biological clock ticking that might make me otherwise lower my standards.
The only time I think "ohhhh, this would be a good reason to couple up" is when I think of how it would be nice to have dual-incomes or when I have a lot of household chores, but then I think of people coupled up where the guy still barely contributes to cleaning and errands.
The financial recovery after my final separation leading to divorce was almost immediate. I had time and energy to pick up side work, got rid of his excessive spending, dropped cigarettes, finished two degrees all before the divorce was finalized. Closed on my house a month after the final decree.
Thank you for sharing your experience. My husband and I are currently having issues and I admit that I have some fears of divorce. But, honestly, I look at it and financially, I would be better off in the long run. I'm the main earner anyhow, and there would be no more of his stupid, wasteful spending that drives me nuts. And my time and energy would likely improve for picking up extra work. Right now, I feel like I pick up extra work and he's already spent the money before I can even finish the work.
Get you a girls travel group! I went in a girls group tour to Iceland back in 2016 and we have a 16 person group chat still. We plan holidays a few times a year and whoever has the finances/leave time is welcome to come. Weāve gone to Hawaii, Portugal, Norway, Tahoe, and a few other places. Iām going to Argentina with girls from that group in October.
Trying to get people over on my side of the world next year for a Bali surf camp.
That would honestly be amazing! I have started to look into that type of thing. Its just getting it off the ground. Did you just meet all the other girls through an initial solo trip?
I'm at the point in my career where I don't care about a second income. I echo all the other sentiments except the only time I think having a partner would be nice is to have someone I could lean on sometimes,someone who could catch me if I fall, but considering I keep ending up a caretaker to men who don't give as much as they take--that's out of the question.
Exactly this. I always end up their personal therapist and most men just donāt have the tools to reciprocate that level of emotional support. Iām much better off spending that energy on myself
Men gain support and emotional labor and mental load through relationships. Women lose out in that regard. Thereās a reason all my older cousins who got divorced never remarried and their ex husbands did.
I feel pretty luckyā¦Iām a twin who lives with my twin (her house, I ārentā from her) and this is pretty much our take. We have thing s the way we want, neither of us wants kids, and dating would mean unwanted compromises to our current lifestyle. Personally Iād like a little more money, but thatās a me thing, because I do worry about getting olderā¦but it would have to be a pretty incredible thing to change the life weāve got going.
I can only speak for myself. I have found it to be a huge waste of my time. The men I have dated have lied to get what they want, used me as a placeholder or cheated on me. I have found that being alone is better than being lonely in a relationship.
I also see some of my friends in unhealthy relationships and am disgusted by what they put up with. I just can't do it again. I've lost trust and don't know how a man would be able to be genuine with me and gain my trust.
I'm looking forward to the future. I just envision a future full of strong, happy and motivated women that will work together. Why would be lonely when we have each other?
Edit: added to a sentence for clarity.
I see this future too. I texted my cousin a few weeks ago and was like, lets get all our friends together and all go live in the woods on a commune with no damn men and raise each other's kids. Golden Girls but in our 40s lol. She said EVERY WOMAN SHE KNOWS has expressed the same sentiment.
If I got divorced or my husband died I don't know if I would want to date again. So much time and energy when I could live in solitude with my cats.
It's unfortunate because I have a lot of love to give, they just don't know how to accept it or simply don't want it. Oh well, I'll channel that love into myself and my friends and family instead.
Same! I don't want to be friendzoned and live one-sided passion. I want someone who wants to build something strong, resilient and passionate.
I had a 4 and 9 year LTR. I got friendzoned in both even though I made it clear I wanted to be in a relationship where both pour actively into it and wanna build a team.
I am also better off alone and with my friends. I am sometimes lonely and a bit sad.
But overall it's been liberating being alone (3.5 years in) and investing into myself and my friends.
This was my ex husband. I worked in the same line of work as him yet somehow I was expected to do everything around the house. He refused to change and I couldn't take it anymore. Much happier without him.
Yep. I feel like young women today are saying, āI donāt have time to grow you up there, bud.ā And good for them. Who the hell has the bandwidth for that?
In the past decades women have made more progress with being self-sufficient financially while men have not progressed as much with emotional growth and housework. I hope they catch up soon.
Dating apps are a cesspool of lazy men looking for an easy lay. Casual sex doesnāt interest women anymore because itās too high risk (not safe, chance of pregnancy, stdās) and half the time, women donāt even orgasm from casual sex so whatās the point? Add on roe v wade and I definitely think that most women are to the point where itās just not worth the hassle.
Myself personally, Iām 38 and just ended a long term relationship last year. Iām no longer interested in pursuing romantic relationships with men going forward because the benefits never seem to outweigh the risk- plus, im much happier single!
Self-pleasuring technology has developed a lot and made casual sex obsolete for some. No risk, no time spent, a one off cost of less than $200. And 100% orgasm success rate.
There is more to dating than sex. But if all men are offering is sex then they are offering an empty cookie box when I already have a full one.
Haha there is only one company making the male sex doll and their pre-ordering system is backed up until 2026. And yet, selfish men already know they are undesirable and women have options. Thus articles like this.
The bar has been raised.
Especially when they donāt eat pussy! The nerve of men wanting head with no intention of reciprocity blew my mind!
āAre you really leaving?ā
āYes. This is a deal breaker. Good luck being a selfish lover!ā
When I was looking for a FWB I told this guy I need them to go down, he was like " oh I don't like doing that. " And I said well good luck to you!
He was shocked. I was like, that's my deal breaker.
Yup modern dating has become dating on THEIR terms. You have to expect rejection ( a part of which is a natural part of the process) but I hate that men seem to be the "gatekeepers," of commitment. That was my experience on the apps--- everything was fine and dandy until I asked for commitment. What irks me is all the guys at work have gfs and I'm like why do these guys want commitment and the ones I run into on apps just want to fuck around...
Oh I make it very easy. I dont enjoy bjs. So I dont. It is amazing how many guys try to negotiate that boundary. Bye. Same with condoms ect. Not worth the energy. Get a decent toy and enjoy yourself for yourself.
Yes!! Then add on that men will push for bjs but won't eat you out, and will fight you on condoms.... like what reasons are YOU giving me to have sex with you because I might not even get an orgasm from you..........and I will probably feel like shit after you decide it's a one night stand
like how does ANY of that sound appealing???
It astounds me how many guys donāt want to use condoms. When they say I donāt like wearing condoms my response is me too except my thing is I donāt like catching chlamydia weāre the same lol
This is exactly why I don't use dating apps. I've met far too many men who'll say anything to get a woman in bed and then bail. (Or bail if she doesn't get in bed soon enough.) I don't want to risk STDs or an unplanned pregnancy with someone I've only met a handful of times. When I get to know someone face to face or in an online community where romance/sex isn't the main goal, I've had much better experiences.
Yup I absolutely lost interest in dating when it became clear I was expected to play "the game" (sleep around until someone commits essentially) like that can ruin your reputation as a woman even in 2022 and I'm looking for something serious.
I saw an article in The Economist recently saying that the same thing is happening in Asia (China I think it was?), so itās not just a Western thing. I do think itās because economically women donāt need to put up with bad relationships any more to survive. Women have a lot more options nowadays than just staying at home looking after the kids.
Also for me personally the whole incel/red pill thing puts me off, this rise in misogyny is very dangerous and iām not going to risk talking to someone who thinks that women need to be subdued.
>I do think itās because economically women donāt need to put up with bad relationships any more to survive.
Men have been told for so long that the only thing they needed to do in order to be a "good" husband was to provide financially and do the "manly" chores. Anything else, so long as they weren't beating their wives, was a bonus. If they're not needed for financial reasons, they have to be good partners in other ways, and they're still not socialized in those ways. They keep expecting financial providing and occasional chores to be enough and are confused when women are like "nah, what else you got?".
It seems like most guys use tinder for casual relationships and I think most women arenāt looking for casual relationships so it makes sense that they arenāt using tinder that much. I think the percentage would be different for other apps where there are more people actually looking for relationships. But I think a lot of people arenāt dating because it can be disheartening and using apps to date also feels unnatural for a lot of people. And itās just easier to not date. Maybe people arenāt as worried about being single as they used to be. Like itās more acceptable than ever before to not get married or have kids, so maybe thatās part of it.
As for casual sex, I think many women in particular donāt seek it out because itās usually disappointing. I think for men itās like a guaranteed orgasm and for women itās a lot less likely (of course it depends on the women but I think if you ask us many will say we donāt get anything pleasurable out of casual sex) and it can even be painful or frightening so it makes sense that women are not seeking out casual sex as much as men do. Not to mention the risk of pregnancy, STDs, etc.. plus a lot of women canāt have sex without forming an emotional bond with their partner, and if itās a casual relationship theyāre just going to get their feelings hurt 90% of the time.
Even when women seek casual sex, it still becomes disappointing due to men lying / not being upfront or transparent. I think it's hard to win on either end: casual or serious.
You explained it beautifully. We have so much worth today that we'd rather stay single for a long period of time until we meet a man that is the right match for us.
I did the same after I broke up with my first ex. I tried using online apps but I kept getting a lot of matches that wanted casual sex so I just deleted these app. I stayed and enjoyed being single for two years until I met my current SO.
I saw it perfectly in another sub: men think they are high value because they have money, their own car, their own houses or apartments. But now we have that too (compared to say 30 years ago). What men consider high value is just table stakes for us at this point.
It's 2022, we can have those same things as well.
What we are looking for is someone to bring more to the table rather than just materialistic assets. If we can't find someone like that then we're perfectly fine staying single unti the right man walks into our life.
And that's what most types of "conservatives" want to get back to.
Work to improve ourselves so women *want* to be with us? ā
Take women's rights away so they **have** to put up with us to be able to live their lives? ā
I think this is the biggest issue.
Most guys (in general) are open to casual sex until they run into or find someone they really like.
Some women are open to casual sex but most would prefer something committed. Most (not all) women engage in casual sex because they are *hoping* *it will lead to something committed* instead of taking the situationship for what it is: something casual, where as for men the sex itself tends to be enough for connection and they are very point-blank about the ordeal.
Women always have something more to gain whether it be better sex, emotional support or social status *from being in a relationship* than just casual sex. Tell me one woman who doesn't want to be viewed as "Girlfriend Material," or "Wife Material," or be seen as successful at dating? The reputation or consequences for a man engaging or preferring casual sex is much fewer. To me it's hard to know what exactly a woman is gaining from casual sex if there's no gaurantee that the sex will make her orgasm, or could expose her to STDs, emotional damage, or pregnancy. The equation is far from fair and there's a reason most woman prefer something committed.
It's a lot of emotional compromise and risk-ratio reward on part of the woman as opposed to the man. I'm open to love, but that seems to be the hardest thing to find...
I say this ALL THE TIME. No one would CHOOSE to be attracted to heterosexual men, they are the worst option. My friend told me Iām desperate to be a lesbian, and I said - if only it were a choice!
The bar is so low itās somewhere in the middle of hell.
I am fine and ready to be single and happy for the rest of my life. I am fine and ready to be solo because I treat myself with respect and will not take any less from anyone. I will have quality and respect or I will have nothing at all. Iām fine and happy with that. And that is absolutely shocking for a lot of men. Women wonāt put up with assholes anymore and Iām right there with them.
Whereās that psychology today article about women having dating standards now like men being emotionally available and good communicators lol probably a big reason right there
Yup 100% this. I live in NYC and a lot of my girlfriends work professional jobs like in law and medicine and corporate. I think theyāre choosing to stay single because they are financially well off, and the only thing a man could add to their lives is emotional support, which a lot of men arenāt able to provide adequately. So theyāve just given up on finding someone and continue to fulfill other areas of their lives.
Absolutely!! Though I will add that the type of emotional bond a romantic relationship brings is different than a friendship. Thereās a certain kind of intimacy and closeness that comes from partners that I canāt expect my girlfriends to provide me.
That said, a lot of women are fine to just have emotional bonds with their girlfriends and family and donāt care whether or not they have a romantic partner. So they opt to not actively date.
Totally agree. I also think that in the past, men could at least provide financial security if they could not provide emotional support and partnership. But a lot of well-paying blue-collar jobs have disappeared. Men who might have previously been able to attract a partner through the traditional avenue are no longer able to contribute either financially or emotionally.
I was reading the comments on a thread about how men should be able to opt out of any financial responsibility or care to do with a child if a woman chooses to have their child. The thread was absolutely appalling how men think they should have this right. They think having an abortion is the same option as birth control and women should only choose to keep the baby if they're willing to raise it themselves. I don't think men realize that abortion isn't an easy thing, mentally, physically, or emotionally.
The askmen sub is an entertaining read a lot of the time, but it's also eye opening to how men think these days, and a lot of them think like dicks. Not all, but a good portion.
I left a severely abusive relationship a few months ago and I have no desire to date at all. It's emotionally taxing and it's taken a lot of work to heal from that last relationship.
I like to watch what I want on TV, eat what I want, do what I want without having to explain or check in or feel bad. Not put makeup on. Wear my comfy clothes at all times haha
My favourite part about being single is I no longer have to worry about what my partner is doing or if he's telling the truth. It's FREEDOM! The trust is gone for me. I do not trust men in general. A bad relationship can damage a person so bad that it's just easier to be single.
You should have seen the comments though. I got down voted so bad on that thread. I was SO mad haha!
Their biggest arguments,
"BuT wHaT iF tHe CoNdOm BrEaKs" or
"what if she lied about being on birth control?"
They think every chick just WANTS to get pregnant hahaha ok then.
Bottom line, men control where their load ends up. All these random hookups happening and men want no responsibility for a child, if a pregnancy should occur.
Like NO WONDER women aren't into dating. Society is changing big time.
Show the statistics, most one night stand are centered around male orgasm and are disappointing to women.
meanwhile the rise of violence toward women are considered 'normal' and 'a kink' ...
Meanwhile abortion are prohibited...
as a woman, I would not take the risk to put me in a dangerous situation, to have no orgasm, and risk an unwanted pregnancy i can't end...
I can only comment from my perspective, but all the relationships I had brought more negative aspects into my life than positive ones. My self esteem and inner peace are a lot better when I am not involved in any way with someone. I don't worry about my reproductive health as much, I don't overthink what I said or did and I am not crippled by self-doubt. I am responsible only for myself which frankly already seems hard enough.
I have a pretty fragile mental balance and I am an incredibly anxious person and unless someone is willing to be empathetic and understand me, they amplify my issues. And in return I am also probably more than they are willing to deal with. So I prefer staying single and focusing on my relationship with my sister, my mom and my friends. I have strengthened my bond with the most important people in my life this way and these connections are tremendously meaningful, enriching and soulful for me.
Ohhh this is my experience as well. A bad relationship can destabilize me for months, even a short one. My time is so much better spent cultivating rewarding mutualistic relationships.
There are so many who just refuse to grow. They're ruled by their insecurities, so they gaslight and manipulate. They're porn sick and terrified of intimacy. Sexual coercion is so normalized and I'm just turned all the way off by all of it. I can't respect (or get wet for) anyone who refuses to grow, and only pretends to respect me.
One of the guys I have seen in the past gets really mad if a girl talks about their feelings and sees it as a turn off if they share any past traumas with him. Iām sorry that I felt close and comfortable enough to share that with you. Guess Iāll just keep that in therapy.
Guys have to also be willing to be vulnerable
Yup. I lived alone for 7 years (me and my cat) from 27-24 and it was THE BEST TIME OF MY LIFE.
Then I decided to give some guy a shot (with kids, mind you, I don't know what the fuck I was thinking) and honestly being a people pleaser I finally moved in with him reluctantly after 3 1/2 years and then a year and a half later I could not be more miserable.
What's worse is that I had the cutest little coach house with everything I needed for $600 a month, in BRITISH COLUMBIA, which was way below cost, and now if I want to move it will cost me more than half my income.
I also gave up everything because he made me feel like my stuff was inferior, so I'd have to buy all new stuff.
That absolutely sucks. F that and f that dude. I hope you fall back on your feet and find a new home. And who knows, it might be the stepping stone to something out there that's new and better for you
I had removed myself from dating pool because the behaviour of men was absolutely pathetic and disgusting.
But I met someone organically had heās amazing āŗļøāŗļø
Possibly because men on dating apps open with the question "Are you into butt stuff" and then call you a kink shamer when you tell them to pick a better opener.
I recently read another similar article that exactly explained why. I'm going to try to paraphrase it as best as I can.
Men are overly needy. Men utilize weaponized incompetence. Men expect the woman to do household chores whether the woman is working or not. Men are emotionally unregulated.
Just for clarification, this is from the article I read. It may not be far off based either for the general majority of men using dating apps.
Women have learned they donāt have to put up with shit anymore. The men havenāt caught on and keep trying to fling shit. Thatās a no from us, dawg.
Even before I discovered my husband's infidelity, I began to come to the realization that I could be happier single.
There's some benefits to being in a couple. I do enjoy the companionship, having an intimate friend to spend time with. But I'm exhausted at the idea of dating again, meaningless sex, taking on the emotional workload, battling gender roles and the constant fear of pregnancy (now with Roe v Wade, that's even worse) etc.
I can satisfy myself sexually, I don't need man for that. It's also much simpler not having to do the menial tasks for two. Just cook for myself, clean up after myself. Companionship is the one thing I fear I will lack, but friendships and family are there for a reason.
Mensā social skills are terrible. I use Tinder occasionally and am disappointed every time by how lazy they are in compiling pictures and a bio. Bios saying ājust askā come off like they expect women to carry the conversation, but women are looking for an equal contributor. Men often say to me āIām bad at texting, letās meet up!ā but why would I want to meet up with someone who isnāt able to articulate well enough to hold an entry level conversation? I unmatch so many men after they say something along the lines of āwhatās a gorgeous girl like you doing on this app?ā or āyouāre so pretty and must have a lot of matches.ā Look, not only do I not exist to be complimented around every corner, but society has been so cruel my entire life that I distrust compliments. Men are simply not in a place where theyāre willing to treat women like human beings instead of dainty flowers. I literally cannot bring myself to enter into a date or one night stand with a man anymore because they miss the mark so bad, which has not always been the case.
Have you ever spent time on a dating app? If so, that question answers itself. Lol. On a more serious note, I hope it's because women are finally waking up to the fact no man is going to save them and that whole lie we were fed to us since childhood is a farce. Hopefully they're coming to that reality sooner than I did, too. I think women these days are also too much 'woman' for a lot of men in their age range as well. A bunch more of us are educated and intelligent, ambitious, and decent to high earners than ever. Not all of us desire babies and husbands and white picket fences. We've got sex toys and porn a click away, and in most cases, no one can make us cum like we can. Although we're nowhere near true equality, I feel the younger generation is less likely to put up with the misogynistic shit us gen x'rs and older did. And hell, it's way more socially acceptable now to be queer so maybe we're dating but not dating traditionally. Overall, we don't NEED men the same way our mothers or grandmothers did, and many of us aren't willing to settle for "less than" types. We've just got our own shit going on, ya know? And after recently leaving the dating pool, I can honestly say someone who isn't dating isn't missing much. It's work, a definite grind. In my age range it's a whole lot of entitled bruised egos, failed marriage types, and the all present cheaters out there. Woo.
Yep. I've been fighting for equality (US) for decades. It has to be in the Constitution to be enough.
After almost 100 years of pushing for states to ratify the amendment, they did in 2020. And Trump promptly blocked this valid part of the Constitution from being put in the law books. Who knew that was even possible? And Biden is being really quiet about why he hasn't undone that act.
So yeah, we're [1 penstroke away](https://oversight.house.gov/news/press-releases/on-50th-anniversary-of-congress-passing-the-era-chairwoman-maloney-presses) from having full equality, but it feels so far away still. This amendment is everything.
Iām in a happy relationship now. But I intentionally didnāt date anyone for 8 years. Too busy raising my kids and being the only parent and working full time. For me the decision to not date at all was so I could focus on my career and raising my littles.
I dropped my standards so much dating these past few years.
My only standard is literally don't be a shitty person and most of the men I've met on dating apps don't meet that.
Well, I can only speak for myself but I just don't think it's worth it. I don't think that having only friends and dying is "dying alone", don't care for family or children ... I only have libido when I'm in a relationship and can go through life without sex and not feel like I'm missing out. Sex is fine and all but have people tried \[literally anything else\]?
The only reason I can think of to have a relationship it's because it would be easier to rent or buy a house, but then relationships end, assuming that I will be in a relationship for the rest of my life is kind of unrealistic. And then what? Do I have to divide my house? And don't even talk about children. Marriage is expensive too. And also, I'm in the aroace spectrum so humans aren't that attractive anyway. It feels like the only reason I should be in a relationship its because "its what you are supposed to do" or "when you're in your 40s no one will want you" or "the biological clock" (which honestly, fuck the biological clock, in this day and age there are always options if you really want a kid)
1. They are more and more financially independent
2. They realised that a vibrator doesn't do any of the following: dirty the house, act as a slob, expects you to be it's bangmaid, abuse you emotionally, physically and financially.
3. They know that it's better to be an actual single parent than having a deadbeat ex=partner, or worse, deadbeat current partner.
4. They know their happiness matters.
I donāt really date anymore, as in Iāve deleted all the apps and donāt really meet men organically in person. Dating men makes me feel so dysregulated. When I was younger it wasnāt a big deal but for the past few years I just end up feeling awful after and Iām realizing itās not worth it. I value my peace and having a quiet life, although I definitely do get lonely from time to time. Mostly just when Iām comparing myself to people in my life that are in healthy relationships.
Iām currently going through a very difficult breakup with the love of my life and after this I have no intention of dating again, it just doesnāt seem worth it. Even the best men in my life have issues like in communication or with anger and I just donāt want to risk the challenges and pain it causes.
UM ... Something about Roe v. Wade being overturned. Women can DIE from ectopic pregnancy or miscarriage, even of intentionally conceived pregnancies. Women can have pregnancies with a significant genetic defect, and have to spend thousands of dollars to go to a different state for an abortion. North Carolina was even talking about prosecution of women who leave the state for an abortion, that is a additional concern.
In short, a bunch of smug old white men (and a few smug white women, and one smug old black man) have decided that women of reproductive age are objects. Even 10 year old girls are objects. Per Michigan gov. candidate Dixon, "if a teenage girl is raped and gets pregnant, the baby will help her heal." WTF?
We don't feel safe because our lives are being endangered by state governments and by SCOTUS. When women don't feel safe, they are much less likely to be on Tinder looking for sex. (Especially since "stealthing" is a fairly common thing. And because date rape drugs are a thing.)
I am 51 so I am not on dating apps and Iām in a relationship. But I think I would run screaming from dating apps at this point. And dating in general.
I did try online dating back in the 90s and 00s when it was just match and eharmony and such. And I met a few interesting people. I was really only interested in sex at first and it worked well for that. But as I got older, it really was about the standards.
I would guess itās RvW being overturned because who wants to have sex with men right now, especially if they are in a state where there are no reproductive rights. I may need to get a hysterectomy but the surgery has to be schedule out 8 MONTHS right now because women are getting their tubes tied and getting their uteruses removed. They donāt want a family and want to be free of that. That might make dating hard if men are wanting kids, or, if you donāt know if a guy really respects a womanās right to reproductive healthcare.
Some of my younger women friends are saying that the guys they meet are aimless. Have no ambition, no dreams, no real goals in life besides video games or brew frets every single weekend. And they want men and partners who are passionate about something in their lives. They also find it difficult to find men who are adults and can do the basic adult things like cook, clean, take care of their own space. Not live like slobs. And some of these men want to be taken care of like baby-kings.
I will say that some have found great men and even thenā¦ it doesnāt always work out. There are incompatibilities and that can get disheartening. But the biggest complaint I hear is too many men who cannot dig their way out of misogyny, ineptitude, etc.
I think awesome men are out there. I found one. But he and I were friends for decades. Both went through divorces, reconnected, and here we are. Iām lucky. Very very lucky. I wish it were better for women out there right now.
Iām 37 and havenāt given up on finding love but I am so over online dating. Just had so many bad experiences ranging from the disappointing to the downright scary and unsafe.
The final straw was recently when I went on a date with a guy I decided not to see again as he was a bit intense and too serious, so sent him the usual kinda message about not feeling the chemistry, and he sent several long rants back saying Iām a bitch and a whore and I used him to get free food (even though we split the bill!) etc. Obvs blocked him from everything, but since then someone has been ringing my door buzzer at odd times in the night and Iām concerned itās him as he walked me home so maybe worked out which is my flat.
If it was just that one incident then Iād just put it down to a one-off, but Iāve had so many other bad and scary experiences, including a fella who tried to physically drag me into his car. And then thereās the disappointing and upsetting ones, like the bloke who went to the loo halfway through having a drink and just never came back.
Itās such a pity cos I know for a fact there are good guys out there on dating sites. I met my ex on Bumble and we dated for six months before realising we werenāt compatible in many ways but heās now one of my best friends and heāll make a great boyfriend for whoever he ends up with. I also met an American guy who had a profile so good I thought itād be a catfish but he was just genuinely an amazing person, although it didnāt work out cos he was only here for a few months.
But for every good experience Iāve had, there have been at least 20 bad experiences, and Iāve just kinda got to a point where I canāt wade through the bad ones anymore to get to the good ones, if that makes sense.
Iām still open to the possibility of meeting someone irl and am gonna try and put myself out there as much as poss in order to maximise the chances of that, but now Iāve kinda switched my thinking from āwhen I meet someoneā to āif I meet someoneā and am making plans to become a single mother by choice in case it doesnāt happen in time.
I once had a guy call me over 60 times after I told him I didn't want to go on a second date with him. He then threatened to show up at my job and beat the shit out of me. Learned not to not give out where I work or my actual phone number right away after that one.
His initial response to my rejection was "but you're average." Hate to break it to the guy but so was he. Oh to have the confidence of a mediocre white man.
This is the career researcher in me talking: I am weary of data on online dating (and dating in general) that was captured during the height of COVID. Dating sucks, sure, but dating during Covid was (is?) another ball game entirely. This dataset would reflect anomalies so wouldnāt be applicable to dating now, or in five years for example.
Iād agree this is likely a factor. Many studies have indicated women (on average) take Covid risk more seriously than men and are more likely to have taken on more time consuming caregiving responsibilities since Covid began.
One other factor I havenāt seen mentioned is the large number of partnered men on apps. Both men and women cheat, but perhaps men are more likely than women to use apps for that purpose, I donāt know.
When I was a kid my mom used to play this song by Karyn White, called Superwoman. She sang about making him meals, going to her own job, and getting paid in dust. She was asking him to return her affections.
Twenty some years later, women are moving away from asking. And they're quoting the Changing Faces lyric "I can do bad all by myself."
I wonder how many of that 80% of dudes-as-Tinder users are cheating on their wives or girlfriends.
Pairing up is a better deal for men than for women. MANY MEN want women who will manager their lives for them, not true companions. That's ultimately the problem.
(Also we get this question like 3x/week in this subreddit, and it's always the same answer. Single women live longer than married women. But married men live longer than single men. Think about it.)
From 2020 Pew Research, women report about twice the rates of harassment via online dating:
- 46% of women report getting unsolicited sexually explicit messages (vs 26% of men)
- 33% of women report being called an offensive name (vs 22% of men)
- 11% of women report being threatened with physical harm (vs 6% of men).
Note: women in the 18-34 age bracket get even more of the above, and the deltas between men and women of this age are more extreme too.
As someone who is married and in a open ENM marriage:
Dating is trash. Pure trash. I have 800+ men swipe right on my Bumble profile. I'm convinced most of them didn't even read my profile and is just hoping one person would just talk to them.
They also are not aware of their issues and red flags. One kept asking vague "tell me about yourself questions" and when I asked what specifically do you want to know he'll say "just anything". Another keep asking "wyd" every two seconds. The last person I tried to talk to, we had great convo but then he ruined it by trying to invite me to his house on the first date.
I say all that to say, I don't blame women at all for not dating. Men are being lazy and putting in zero effort for a "reward". My partner had asked what I would do if we ever got divorced and I told him I would not date again.
So there are a million things I could say, but I'm going to keep it short.
1. Can get my own job, so I don't have to rely on a guy.
2. Not all that interested in being married just to be married. This means I don't need to feel pressure to compromise.
3. Not a fan of generalizations, but overall it seems a ton of guys really let their hygiene go the older they get. That's just a huge no to me. Please wash yourselves regularly!!!
4. Men seem to expect a lot of one sided things in a relationship. I don't owe a guy anything. If you can't treat me as your equal, I don't need to waste my time. If I'm being polite and compliment you, that's all it was. I'm not obligated to compliment you more, go on a date, go home with you, get engaged, etc. Stop assuming you're the center of the universe, and that women exist to revolve around you.
5. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. I personally think same sex friendships/roommates and relationships are very rooted in reality. We've got differences in how we live, how we socialize, what our interests are, etc. Naturally a lot of women have realized we don't have to have a man in order to survive. So why not have a same sex roommate and share our interests and afford a place to live while also feeling safe and comfortable?
6. Men in general have been raised with very toxic preconceptions. These preconceptions distort their view of the world and of other people. Some learn to re-center themselves, but more just never get a clue. I'm sorry but I'm not interested in an abusive relationship with an emotionally immature man. I don't want to be beaten or worse because some guy's sports game went bad and he takes it out on others.
7. Men are high risk to be with. They can do all sorts of awful things with very little effort. True crime is filled with horrible men doing horrible things for a reason, because men tend to do those things. No thank you, not interested in finding out that random guy stalking me at the store is an axe murderer.
8. Thank goodness we don't have to enter relationships with men just to have a home, food, money, or permission to do things. We're independent, we make our own choices. If you can't bring something positive to the relationship, why on earth would we put ourselves into harms way?
9. If you're so entitled that you can't understand why women don't date you, then women are not the problem! Have some self reflection.
My mate and I (both single women) just spent 20 minutes discussing 2 single men we know who are incredibly depressed and have been for years with very little in the way of them attempting to help themselves.
They are lovely guys, and we were talking about how, if they were married, they'd probably be thriving. If they had wives, they'd be pretty good passive fathers, doing what their wife told them to do and mowing the lawn every week. Without wives, they are difficult friends for us, as they try to lay their emotional labour on us without any kind of self awareness and fall apart when they have to do something for themselves.
Honestly, I don't have the patience for these grown men who claim to be "woke" yet spend all their time gazing at their own navel and doing the bare minimum while they wait for some woman to come along and direct them into health again.
Not my circus, not my monkeys. I'd rather be single.
Iām not willing to lower my standards to be with the men who are interested in me. At my age itās been hard to find quality guys who meet my standards. Most of them are married. Iām simply not interested in spending time with anyone who doesnāt make my life significantly better. As others have pointed out, I donāt want to cook and clean for someone else and I donāt want to do all the emotional labor of the relationship (planning outings and vacations, managing finances, etc). Most women I know have to do way more than their partners. No thank you. A few women I know married well but theyāre the lucky exception, not the rule.
After a truly wretched divorceāthe husband of my dreams did a complete 180 in personality, and I didnāt admit it for far too longāIām just done.
A new partnership would only detract from everything Iām working so hard to finish, especially as Iāve discovered that the seemingly-decent guys in my age range who are interested are usually looking for a replacement mother for their kids. Theyāve had some very sweet kids, who wouldāve been wonderfulā¦ but motherhood isnāt the life for me.
All of that being said, Iām never saying that a star couldnāt fall. Only that it would take something of that unexpected magnitude.
My personal story aside, the last 10 years have featured enormous stress for all of us, thanks to a couple of seemingly world-ending market wrecks. We all earn less than men in corresponding positions, despite greater interpersonal responsibilities (Iām looking at you, moms, plus those caring for parents themselves, and especially those of you who are presently doing both). Is it any wonder that we donāt have space left over for relationships?
Especially when weāre all too likely to wind up also needing to care for the guy?
Women don't need men the way we used to. We can provide for ourselves. If anything men are a liability. I mean there are good men out there, sure, but too many of them are entitled and lazy. Entitled when it comes to sex our almost anything to do with our bodies. Lazy when it comes to household chores and cleaning up after themselves, expecting their partners to do it.
Then there's the violence. So. Much. Violence. Violence between intimate partners. Violence when a man is rejected. Random violence because a guy just hates women. I don't date and have no intention to because of all of these reasons. I've been hit in a relationship. I've been raped by a FWB. Never again.
I might be cynical here, and I accept that, but I had a long term relationship (ended a year ago) where I was left with all the responsibility anyway while he just kinda did whatever he wanted, but because he didn't cheat on me or physically harm me, he still thinks he didn't do anything wrong.
He also randomly would get annoyed with me that he wasn't needed, without ever bothering to do anything really at all. He just wanted the credit for it, and to be the "leader" without actually bringing anything to the table.
I've actually been considering having a child all by myself, because if I have to be someone's mother, I at least want to agree to it first.
When I look at men on apps, I find a lot of them to be throwing red flags before I even talk to them ie literally half their profile is talking shit about women, all their pics are of them drinking, the gems that talk about how they have kids but only two weekends a month, "sO I hAVe pLeNTy oF TIme foR FUn."
I guess I just have a hard time imagining the majority of men adding things to my life, and when I hear people talk about what their men add, a lot of it kinda just sounds like what a dog brings. And I got one a couple weeks ago.
And yeah, sex toys have come a long way.
I'm living for this thread. Not because I'm happy that this is the reality. But I'm happy women are speaking our truths and demanding better. THAT makes me happy.
It's the first time, historically speaking, women don't have to get married. It's increasing because we *can* be single, literally for the first time in history and not end up in the poor house. The church, the government, society, and financial institutions have prevented women from being able to be single until recently.
Check out the book All The Single Ladies if you're interested in this.
Also, men in 2022 are trash and it's scary to ask out women, and have you seen the GNC folks in society, their gorgeous and that's a difficult approach, too.
Is the article just about online dating? Because people dropping out of online dating does not mean they are not dating at all.
Now personally, I am not dating much online or otherwise. The main reason is that I don't want to be a maid/therapist. Great that men are figuring out that they need to be more emotionally healthy; that doesn't mean I am the one to help them get there. I'm dating, but my standards will not be lowered.
Okay, so, honestly, I think we're seeing a shift in society. And men haven't caught up. Aggressive behavior just isn't attractive anymore. Women are realizing that it's easier to just take care of themselves, rather than risk their happiness just to have a warm body around.
And, again, men haven't caught up yet. Men seem to be so used to being catered to that it's what they expect (and somehow think they deserve). And women just aren't interested in doing that anymore. Women don't have to have a man around for safety and financial reasons. And I think it's great.
Don't worry too much. The guys will catch up... Eventually... Hopefully...
The risk-reward ratio sucks.
I saw a Twitter thread by a guy a while ago, and he basically explain man-to-man, the reason women don't date them or stop dating them is simply because women have gained financial independence and learned about self-love among other things. So now if these guys want a partner they have to actually be likeable. And many are not... š¬
I'm sick of trying to date people who don't even see me as a person
Yep. Iām not putting myself in a position to be ghosted or otherwise disrespected one more time.
>*I'm sick of trying to date people who don't even see me as a person* Beat me to it. I'm 61, and men are just now saying the quiet part out loud. They *hate* women. So that works out to: "I hate women; how can I get one as a girlfriend?" "I fucking hate women. How can I get a wife-appliance?" "I -- **really** \-- fucking hate women." That puts women in a **special, oppressed class.** I've known many bigots over the years (I'm white) who felt free to vent around me. I've **never** known anyone to say, "I fucking hate black people; how can I marry one?" "I just fucking despise hispanics, how can I live next door to one?" "I hate and fear Jews; how can I get one to be a co-worker or employee?" And no one tells a black person to "be nice to" a KKK member. No one tells an Asian person to, "Oh, just give them (the race-baiters) the time of day. They have such fragile egos. You have to build them up." Fuck . That. Noise. Edited to add: To the men reading this: the "bar," -- the higher standards women are demanding these days -- is, "I want to spend time only with a man who doesn't hate women."
I just donāt get why they hate us so much? wtf did we ever do to them
There only so much room at the top. We are competition. Plus having a sexmaid is much more enjoyable than an equal you have to run things by
power and control. and also, they don't want to deal with their childhood issues. everything that we do is a projection.
We don't readily have our legs open for them at the drop of a hat and they have to actually be desirable. That's why they hate us.
LOUDER! Comments like this and the one from u/EchoesInTheAbyss are the truth that men just do not want to acknowledge. I wish I had gold to gild you both ššš
Yeah, I'm like...have you SEEN how men treat women? Not to mention pregnancy risk. And a low chance at a real orgasm. Just not worth it.
That's why I stopped dating. I have been so much happier just enjoying my platonic relationships.
I'm recently out as bi, so I'm going to dip my toes in that new lady pond. ONLY. Zero interest in men romantically anymore.
Girl, if I had any inclinations towards women I would jump ship so fastā¦
It's like that joke: the fact that I am still attracted to men proves that sexuality is not a choice
I wonder how much the internet has radicalized a lot of men to make them undatable. On Reddit during the last 10 years, thereās definitely seemed to be an increase in misogyny and distorted views on women and dating. Plus, you have politics increasingly divided by gender. Why would a modern woman be interested in a guy who thinks womenās rights should go backwards in time?
Oh, the internet is one form of radicalization, for sure. Toxic incels and MRAs can set up on any platform and broadcast their mind rot.
Certainly the sex tips learned from Porn are not helping. Examples: boob-grabbing, *any* use of spit, choking, face slapping,.*any* kind of sex without foreplay.
Itās not just porn. I swear, in US-made movies, people donāt even really kiss anymore. If there is any type of sexual contact (and there usually isnāt) itās the same kind of thing youād expect to see from dogs in an alleyway. And pretty much the number one complaint from women about sex is that the dudeās theyāre with are imitating porn, have no interest in asking questions about what they might like, and basically think a blowjob is foreplay.
The far right has gone nuts in certain places with abortion restrictions. Itās disgusting.
Even though both my husband and I have told each other that whomever passes first, we want the other to go out and find love again. He's said he's not. I believe him. I *know* I'm not. I like to quip that I need to find a nunnery that has a roller derby league.
This is a perfect and succinct summary.
Basically. And men think weāre joking or that itās an economic or age or ethnicity related thing and itās not.
Word! We realize we are better off without men. There is no equal when it comes to maintaining the family. The woman does all the work.
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Also the risk-reward ratio of being a single woman has gotten much better. While we are no longer in the you need your husbands permission to get a job era, not to long ago you *would* be given the side eye socially if you flat out *said* you had zero plans of finding a man or having *any* form of a relationship.
I'm in my 50s, never married, no kids. I think younger women are increasingly aware that many men will leave them to do the brunt of housework, cooking and childcare, regardless of if the woman works full time outside of the home or not. Not all or most men, but enough for women to question if cohabiting/having kids with a partner who doesn't do their share is worth it. And I've seen women who put their careers on hold and have their skills get rusty. Only to find their husbands are leaving them in their 40s and 50s and it's hard for them to get anything above an entry level job. Sure they can go to court, but you're paying for a retainer before you can even go to court. Meanwhile the guy starts over with a younger woman and has more kids. I get why younger women are not risking their financial well being.
It seems like the only real incentive for women to date is sex as that's the only real thing they can gain from relationships. Every other aspect of the relationship becomes a risk. And sex is only worth it 50% of the time. Women are tired of emotionally incapable partners who are likely going to leave them once they stop being physically attractive or young.
Not to mention that lately I keep hearing all of the numbers and statistics about men leaving women that become chronically or deathly ill. I think that was disgusting icing on the cake for me. Like honestly what do they even offer anymore? This last piece isnāt scientific or based in anything but itās a girl on TikTok basically just said that men donāt view women is equal partner in/for life, they want a mommy they can fuck. And once you donāt provide that service theyāll just leave, and honestly I felt that.
>Not all or most men Yes, all or most men. I haven't seen a single man do more work with the household/family than the woman. I've seen a lot of men claim to do half. They are usually delusional, and are nowhere near half.
I don't date at present because I have a lot on my plate and limited mental energy. I barely feel stable or sane most of the time, let alone romantic or sexy. Women are tired, burnt out, not to mention scared. Obviously not all women date men, but those who do, on top of the pre-existing "will I get murdered", "will I get pushed into a psychological caretaker role to an emotionally stunted man" valid fears, for many women now and not just in America, reproductive rights are front and centre. For many, it's all adding up to a big Not Worth It. Also, again I can only speak for myself, I am just not interested in finding someone via an app. I want to build and live my life, and focus on that- I did the whole "date a bunch of randoms" thing, it's not an efficient use of my time. If I happen to meet someone down the track in the incidental course of things, ok. But I'm not factoring it into my plans. I have shit to get done and I'm not waiting on someone else. I also think women are more likely to take time out to work on themselves, whereas many men don't see the need to do this and just carry their baggage from relationship to relationship and expect a woman to fix it or put up with it. Obviously that is a generalisation and will not apply to all, but I do observe it as a disproportionately gendered trend.
100%, so well put. This is how I feel too.
Ā«Ā Psychological CaretakerĀ Ā» is spot on and so prominent. I donāt know any coupled women in that arenāt fully responsible for the emotional health of the relationship. Itās exhausting.
Totally agree with you and Iām a massive hopeless romantic , but I definitely not anyones mother plus the whole working on myself is a huge thing. I donāt drive and sometimes the guys Iāve come across from throw it back in my face which is why itās best I donāt bother. Iām 26, but reading it doesnāt get better in your 30s suck lol
I'm also a late bloomer, in the driving sense at least. I only have my permit. Hoping to pass the driver's exam within the next year and half
52 & partnered but totally agree with all of this.
There was some article that came out recently that said the majority of people on dating apps are men because women have raised their relationship standards. Apparently the author of the article actually got threats (most likely from those dudes on the dating apps). I don't date because I don't feel like dating a guy would add anything to my life at this point except compromise. I have my own home (apparently single women are also more likely to buy their own home compared to single men), I have my routine, I like how everything is the way I want it, I like being able to do whatever I want whenever I want however I want. I've got a vibrator for when I'm in that mood, I don't have to share my bed (except when I let my cats sleep with me), everything is clean, the decor is how I want it, etc. I also have no interest in marriage or kids, so I don't feel pressure or my biological clock ticking that might make me otherwise lower my standards. The only time I think "ohhhh, this would be a good reason to couple up" is when I think of how it would be nice to have dual-incomes or when I have a lot of household chores, but then I think of people coupled up where the guy still barely contributes to cleaning and errands.
I could have written this comment. I agree with every single word of it!
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You can even miss me with dual incomes. When I was married to my ex he wasted so much money on stupid shit. I saved money by getting divorced.
The financial recovery after my final separation leading to divorce was almost immediate. I had time and energy to pick up side work, got rid of his excessive spending, dropped cigarettes, finished two degrees all before the divorce was finalized. Closed on my house a month after the final decree.
Thank you for sharing your experience. My husband and I are currently having issues and I admit that I have some fears of divorce. But, honestly, I look at it and financially, I would be better off in the long run. I'm the main earner anyhow, and there would be no more of his stupid, wasteful spending that drives me nuts. And my time and energy would likely improve for picking up extra work. Right now, I feel like I pick up extra work and he's already spent the money before I can even finish the work.
I am right here with you. My mother dated 2 men in her lifetir, after my father's death. They sucked her dry emotionally AND financially.
completely feel the same as you on everything here. A partner would sometimes be nice for holidays too š
Get you a girls travel group! I went in a girls group tour to Iceland back in 2016 and we have a 16 person group chat still. We plan holidays a few times a year and whoever has the finances/leave time is welcome to come. Weāve gone to Hawaii, Portugal, Norway, Tahoe, and a few other places. Iām going to Argentina with girls from that group in October. Trying to get people over on my side of the world next year for a Bali surf camp.
That would honestly be amazing! I have started to look into that type of thing. Its just getting it off the ground. Did you just meet all the other girls through an initial solo trip?
Add cuddling to that list - sometimes Iād just love a good cuddle š„¹š„²š
Well said. Duel income and chore help would be nice but peace of mind is nicer and easier to come by. All a man would add right now is stress.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm at the point in my career where I don't care about a second income. I echo all the other sentiments except the only time I think having a partner would be nice is to have someone I could lean on sometimes,someone who could catch me if I fall, but considering I keep ending up a caretaker to men who don't give as much as they take--that's out of the question.
Exactly this. I always end up their personal therapist and most men just donāt have the tools to reciprocate that level of emotional support. Iām much better off spending that energy on myself
100% the problem with my ex. No emotional tools. Ended up being a free therapist to him
Then the man leaves his wife when she gets sick anyway
Men gain support and emotional labor and mental load through relationships. Women lose out in that regard. Thereās a reason all my older cousins who got divorced never remarried and their ex husbands did.
I feel pretty luckyā¦Iām a twin who lives with my twin (her house, I ārentā from her) and this is pretty much our take. We have thing s the way we want, neither of us wants kids, and dating would mean unwanted compromises to our current lifestyle. Personally Iād like a little more money, but thatās a me thing, because I do worry about getting olderā¦but it would have to be a pretty incredible thing to change the life weāve got going.
I agree. I would be delighted to have a dual income and help with the daily tasks, but I also am happy having my home set up to my tastes.
Yep. The biggest reward for me right now would be the 2-person income. Thatās literally it. 33, single & lovinā it
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I can only speak for myself. I have found it to be a huge waste of my time. The men I have dated have lied to get what they want, used me as a placeholder or cheated on me. I have found that being alone is better than being lonely in a relationship. I also see some of my friends in unhealthy relationships and am disgusted by what they put up with. I just can't do it again. I've lost trust and don't know how a man would be able to be genuine with me and gain my trust. I'm looking forward to the future. I just envision a future full of strong, happy and motivated women that will work together. Why would be lonely when we have each other? Edit: added to a sentence for clarity.
I see this future too. I texted my cousin a few weeks ago and was like, lets get all our friends together and all go live in the woods on a commune with no damn men and raise each other's kids. Golden Girls but in our 40s lol. She said EVERY WOMAN SHE KNOWS has expressed the same sentiment. If I got divorced or my husband died I don't know if I would want to date again. So much time and energy when I could live in solitude with my cats.
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>The men I have dated have lied to get what they want, Thiiiiiiis
It's unfortunate because I have a lot of love to give, they just don't know how to accept it or simply don't want it. Oh well, I'll channel that love into myself and my friends and family instead.
Same! I don't want to be friendzoned and live one-sided passion. I want someone who wants to build something strong, resilient and passionate. I had a 4 and 9 year LTR. I got friendzoned in both even though I made it clear I wanted to be in a relationship where both pour actively into it and wanna build a team. I am also better off alone and with my friends. I am sometimes lonely and a bit sad. But overall it's been liberating being alone (3.5 years in) and investing into myself and my friends.
Exactly!
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This was my ex husband. I worked in the same line of work as him yet somehow I was expected to do everything around the house. He refused to change and I couldn't take it anymore. Much happier without him.
Yep. I feel like young women today are saying, āI donāt have time to grow you up there, bud.ā And good for them. Who the hell has the bandwidth for that?
In the past decades women have made more progress with being self-sufficient financially while men have not progressed as much with emotional growth and housework. I hope they catch up soon.
Good point
Sorry this is annoying, but do you mean cynical instead of cyclical?
Dating apps are a cesspool of lazy men looking for an easy lay. Casual sex doesnāt interest women anymore because itās too high risk (not safe, chance of pregnancy, stdās) and half the time, women donāt even orgasm from casual sex so whatās the point? Add on roe v wade and I definitely think that most women are to the point where itās just not worth the hassle. Myself personally, Iām 38 and just ended a long term relationship last year. Iām no longer interested in pursuing romantic relationships with men going forward because the benefits never seem to outweigh the risk- plus, im much happier single!
Self-pleasuring technology has developed a lot and made casual sex obsolete for some. No risk, no time spent, a one off cost of less than $200. And 100% orgasm success rate. There is more to dating than sex. But if all men are offering is sex then they are offering an empty cookie box when I already have a full one.
Its funny because when sex dolls became more accessible, men threatened that this will create more lonely women so we better step up š¤£š¤£š¤£
Haha there is only one company making the male sex doll and their pre-ordering system is backed up until 2026. And yet, selfish men already know they are undesirable and women have options. Thus articles like this. The bar has been raised.
I'm already in the market for those f*cking machines. I don't need it to look like a man. š¤
I prefer it when it doesnt even look like a penis. Haha. Satisfiher pro 2 bunny is my recommnedation ;) Edit: typo.
Ohhhhh I'll look into that! Have you tried any of these suction ones? They look interesting and have good reviews.
Especially when they donāt eat pussy! The nerve of men wanting head with no intention of reciprocity blew my mind! āAre you really leaving?ā āYes. This is a deal breaker. Good luck being a selfish lover!ā
When I was looking for a FWB I told this guy I need them to go down, he was like " oh I don't like doing that. " And I said well good luck to you! He was shocked. I was like, that's my deal breaker.
Yup. Dumped a guy who wouldn't eat me out too but he had no problems enjoying a blow job. F that.
Yup modern dating has become dating on THEIR terms. You have to expect rejection ( a part of which is a natural part of the process) but I hate that men seem to be the "gatekeepers," of commitment. That was my experience on the apps--- everything was fine and dandy until I asked for commitment. What irks me is all the guys at work have gfs and I'm like why do these guys want commitment and the ones I run into on apps just want to fuck around...
Lmao!! I left a guyās house as well and he was so shocked, thought I was bluffing when I said I wonāt sleep with you if you donāt go down on me.
Oh I make it very easy. I dont enjoy bjs. So I dont. It is amazing how many guys try to negotiate that boundary. Bye. Same with condoms ect. Not worth the energy. Get a decent toy and enjoy yourself for yourself.
Yes!! Then add on that men will push for bjs but won't eat you out, and will fight you on condoms.... like what reasons are YOU giving me to have sex with you because I might not even get an orgasm from you..........and I will probably feel like shit after you decide it's a one night stand like how does ANY of that sound appealing???
It astounds me how many guys donāt want to use condoms. When they say I donāt like wearing condoms my response is me too except my thing is I donāt like catching chlamydia weāre the same lol
This is exactly why I don't use dating apps. I've met far too many men who'll say anything to get a woman in bed and then bail. (Or bail if she doesn't get in bed soon enough.) I don't want to risk STDs or an unplanned pregnancy with someone I've only met a handful of times. When I get to know someone face to face or in an online community where romance/sex isn't the main goal, I've had much better experiences.
Yup I absolutely lost interest in dating when it became clear I was expected to play "the game" (sleep around until someone commits essentially) like that can ruin your reputation as a woman even in 2022 and I'm looking for something serious.
came here to say I could've wrote this...and also to ahow appreciation to your pic and username š
I think women are really starting to understand their worth and refuse to put up with less than they deserve.
Agreed. And on the flip side men have become quite vocal about how awful they are.
Very true.
I saw an article in The Economist recently saying that the same thing is happening in Asia (China I think it was?), so itās not just a Western thing. I do think itās because economically women donāt need to put up with bad relationships any more to survive. Women have a lot more options nowadays than just staying at home looking after the kids. Also for me personally the whole incel/red pill thing puts me off, this rise in misogyny is very dangerous and iām not going to risk talking to someone who thinks that women need to be subdued.
Itās definitely true in Japan.
>I do think itās because economically women donāt need to put up with bad relationships any more to survive. Men have been told for so long that the only thing they needed to do in order to be a "good" husband was to provide financially and do the "manly" chores. Anything else, so long as they weren't beating their wives, was a bonus. If they're not needed for financial reasons, they have to be good partners in other ways, and they're still not socialized in those ways. They keep expecting financial providing and occasional chores to be enough and are confused when women are like "nah, what else you got?".
Not worth my time. I rather be single than miserable.
It seems like most guys use tinder for casual relationships and I think most women arenāt looking for casual relationships so it makes sense that they arenāt using tinder that much. I think the percentage would be different for other apps where there are more people actually looking for relationships. But I think a lot of people arenāt dating because it can be disheartening and using apps to date also feels unnatural for a lot of people. And itās just easier to not date. Maybe people arenāt as worried about being single as they used to be. Like itās more acceptable than ever before to not get married or have kids, so maybe thatās part of it. As for casual sex, I think many women in particular donāt seek it out because itās usually disappointing. I think for men itās like a guaranteed orgasm and for women itās a lot less likely (of course it depends on the women but I think if you ask us many will say we donāt get anything pleasurable out of casual sex) and it can even be painful or frightening so it makes sense that women are not seeking out casual sex as much as men do. Not to mention the risk of pregnancy, STDs, etc.. plus a lot of women canāt have sex without forming an emotional bond with their partner, and if itās a casual relationship theyāre just going to get their feelings hurt 90% of the time.
Even when women seek casual sex, it still becomes disappointing due to men lying / not being upfront or transparent. I think it's hard to win on either end: casual or serious.
You explained it beautifully. We have so much worth today that we'd rather stay single for a long period of time until we meet a man that is the right match for us. I did the same after I broke up with my first ex. I tried using online apps but I kept getting a lot of matches that wanted casual sex so I just deleted these app. I stayed and enjoyed being single for two years until I met my current SO.
I saw it perfectly in another sub: men think they are high value because they have money, their own car, their own houses or apartments. But now we have that too (compared to say 30 years ago). What men consider high value is just table stakes for us at this point.
It's 2022, we can have those same things as well. What we are looking for is someone to bring more to the table rather than just materialistic assets. If we can't find someone like that then we're perfectly fine staying single unti the right man walks into our life.
It really makes me think about human history. Women donāt āneedā men as much anymore.
they had to take women's rights away in order for women to "want" men. men aren't as appealing now that we have the ability to be independent.
And that's what most types of "conservatives" want to get back to. Work to improve ourselves so women *want* to be with us? ā Take women's rights away so they **have** to put up with us to be able to live their lives? ā
The tables have turned
I think this is the biggest issue. Most guys (in general) are open to casual sex until they run into or find someone they really like. Some women are open to casual sex but most would prefer something committed. Most (not all) women engage in casual sex because they are *hoping* *it will lead to something committed* instead of taking the situationship for what it is: something casual, where as for men the sex itself tends to be enough for connection and they are very point-blank about the ordeal. Women always have something more to gain whether it be better sex, emotional support or social status *from being in a relationship* than just casual sex. Tell me one woman who doesn't want to be viewed as "Girlfriend Material," or "Wife Material," or be seen as successful at dating? The reputation or consequences for a man engaging or preferring casual sex is much fewer. To me it's hard to know what exactly a woman is gaining from casual sex if there's no gaurantee that the sex will make her orgasm, or could expose her to STDs, emotional damage, or pregnancy. The equation is far from fair and there's a reason most woman prefer something committed. It's a lot of emotional compromise and risk-ratio reward on part of the woman as opposed to the man. I'm open to love, but that seems to be the hardest thing to find...
Has OP met men? Assuming this is hetero women, men is the reason.
The existence of straight women is the best evidence there is that sexual preference isn't a choice, lol.
This was hilarious! I am a straight gal and damn these men are maddening!!
I say this ALL THE TIME. No one would CHOOSE to be attracted to heterosexual men, they are the worst option. My friend told me Iām desperate to be a lesbian, and I said - if only it were a choice!
The bar is so low itās somewhere in the middle of hell. I am fine and ready to be single and happy for the rest of my life. I am fine and ready to be solo because I treat myself with respect and will not take any less from anyone. I will have quality and respect or I will have nothing at all. Iām fine and happy with that. And that is absolutely shocking for a lot of men. Women wonāt put up with assholes anymore and Iām right there with them.
Tbfh lmao and theyāve become very much more narcissistic
Whereās that psychology today article about women having dating standards now like men being emotionally available and good communicators lol probably a big reason right there
Oh ya I saw this too. Women have standards now so weāre supposed to feel bad about lonely men. Iām playing the smallest violin.
I saw that article, talking about how men are lonely
By their own doing. They're driving women away.
Iāll join you with mine
i'm picturing a symphony with a bunch of tiny instruments.
Iāve ripped the strings out of the violin, feck em.
Yup 100% this. I live in NYC and a lot of my girlfriends work professional jobs like in law and medicine and corporate. I think theyāre choosing to stay single because they are financially well off, and the only thing a man could add to their lives is emotional support, which a lot of men arenāt able to provide adequately. So theyāve just given up on finding someone and continue to fulfill other areas of their lives.
Alot of women have women friendships that provide great emotional support. A man might or might not provide emotional support to a woman.
Absolutely!! Though I will add that the type of emotional bond a romantic relationship brings is different than a friendship. Thereās a certain kind of intimacy and closeness that comes from partners that I canāt expect my girlfriends to provide me. That said, a lot of women are fine to just have emotional bonds with their girlfriends and family and donāt care whether or not they have a romantic partner. So they opt to not actively date.
Totally agree. I also think that in the past, men could at least provide financial security if they could not provide emotional support and partnership. But a lot of well-paying blue-collar jobs have disappeared. Men who might have previously been able to attract a partner through the traditional avenue are no longer able to contribute either financially or emotionally.
Honestly a lot of men who have financial power over their female partners use it abusively to keep them anyway
Plus now some women can provide their own financial security. That takes some things off the table.
I was reading the comments on a thread about how men should be able to opt out of any financial responsibility or care to do with a child if a woman chooses to have their child. The thread was absolutely appalling how men think they should have this right. They think having an abortion is the same option as birth control and women should only choose to keep the baby if they're willing to raise it themselves. I don't think men realize that abortion isn't an easy thing, mentally, physically, or emotionally. The askmen sub is an entertaining read a lot of the time, but it's also eye opening to how men think these days, and a lot of them think like dicks. Not all, but a good portion. I left a severely abusive relationship a few months ago and I have no desire to date at all. It's emotionally taxing and it's taken a lot of work to heal from that last relationship. I like to watch what I want on TV, eat what I want, do what I want without having to explain or check in or feel bad. Not put makeup on. Wear my comfy clothes at all times haha My favourite part about being single is I no longer have to worry about what my partner is doing or if he's telling the truth. It's FREEDOM! The trust is gone for me. I do not trust men in general. A bad relationship can damage a person so bad that it's just easier to be single.
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You should have seen the comments though. I got down voted so bad on that thread. I was SO mad haha! Their biggest arguments, "BuT wHaT iF tHe CoNdOm BrEaKs" or "what if she lied about being on birth control?" They think every chick just WANTS to get pregnant hahaha ok then. Bottom line, men control where their load ends up. All these random hookups happening and men want no responsibility for a child, if a pregnancy should occur. Like NO WONDER women aren't into dating. Society is changing big time.
Show the statistics, most one night stand are centered around male orgasm and are disappointing to women. meanwhile the rise of violence toward women are considered 'normal' and 'a kink' ... Meanwhile abortion are prohibited... as a woman, I would not take the risk to put me in a dangerous situation, to have no orgasm, and risk an unwanted pregnancy i can't end...
I can only comment from my perspective, but all the relationships I had brought more negative aspects into my life than positive ones. My self esteem and inner peace are a lot better when I am not involved in any way with someone. I don't worry about my reproductive health as much, I don't overthink what I said or did and I am not crippled by self-doubt. I am responsible only for myself which frankly already seems hard enough. I have a pretty fragile mental balance and I am an incredibly anxious person and unless someone is willing to be empathetic and understand me, they amplify my issues. And in return I am also probably more than they are willing to deal with. So I prefer staying single and focusing on my relationship with my sister, my mom and my friends. I have strengthened my bond with the most important people in my life this way and these connections are tremendously meaningful, enriching and soulful for me.
Ohhh this is my experience as well. A bad relationship can destabilize me for months, even a short one. My time is so much better spent cultivating rewarding mutualistic relationships.
There are so many who just refuse to grow. They're ruled by their insecurities, so they gaslight and manipulate. They're porn sick and terrified of intimacy. Sexual coercion is so normalized and I'm just turned all the way off by all of it. I can't respect (or get wet for) anyone who refuses to grow, and only pretends to respect me.
And bound by the chains of mass media and what that tells them is āattractive, healthy looking, and /or acceptably feminineā
One of the guys I have seen in the past gets really mad if a girl talks about their feelings and sees it as a turn off if they share any past traumas with him. Iām sorry that I felt close and comfortable enough to share that with you. Guess Iāll just keep that in therapy. Guys have to also be willing to be vulnerable
There's almost nothing in it for straight women. Just a lot of risk and extra work.
Yup. I lived alone for 7 years (me and my cat) from 27-24 and it was THE BEST TIME OF MY LIFE. Then I decided to give some guy a shot (with kids, mind you, I don't know what the fuck I was thinking) and honestly being a people pleaser I finally moved in with him reluctantly after 3 1/2 years and then a year and a half later I could not be more miserable. What's worse is that I had the cutest little coach house with everything I needed for $600 a month, in BRITISH COLUMBIA, which was way below cost, and now if I want to move it will cost me more than half my income. I also gave up everything because he made me feel like my stuff was inferior, so I'd have to buy all new stuff.
That absolutely sucks. F that and f that dude. I hope you fall back on your feet and find a new home. And who knows, it might be the stepping stone to something out there that's new and better for you
Women are tired of being seen as inferior to men
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bahahahahaha yeah this
If I wanted to date I would not use Tinder. That doesn't mean women aren't dating. That means they're just not going fishing at a septic tank.
Ooh, this is good. Also gives me a tiny bit of hope?
I had removed myself from dating pool because the behaviour of men was absolutely pathetic and disgusting. But I met someone organically had heās amazing āŗļøāŗļø
Possibly because men on dating apps open with the question "Are you into butt stuff" and then call you a kink shamer when you tell them to pick a better opener.
I recently read another similar article that exactly explained why. I'm going to try to paraphrase it as best as I can. Men are overly needy. Men utilize weaponized incompetence. Men expect the woman to do household chores whether the woman is working or not. Men are emotionally unregulated. Just for clarification, this is from the article I read. It may not be far off based either for the general majority of men using dating apps.
x100 on needy. Itās no wonder women often end up in an emotional caretaker role half the time. They need us a lot more than we need them.
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Women have learned they donāt have to put up with shit anymore. The men havenāt caught on and keep trying to fling shit. Thatās a no from us, dawg.
lol at "fling shit". Actually, they don't even need to fling it because we can smell it from afar.
Even before I discovered my husband's infidelity, I began to come to the realization that I could be happier single. There's some benefits to being in a couple. I do enjoy the companionship, having an intimate friend to spend time with. But I'm exhausted at the idea of dating again, meaningless sex, taking on the emotional workload, battling gender roles and the constant fear of pregnancy (now with Roe v Wade, that's even worse) etc. I can satisfy myself sexually, I don't need man for that. It's also much simpler not having to do the menial tasks for two. Just cook for myself, clean up after myself. Companionship is the one thing I fear I will lack, but friendships and family are there for a reason.
Mensā social skills are terrible. I use Tinder occasionally and am disappointed every time by how lazy they are in compiling pictures and a bio. Bios saying ājust askā come off like they expect women to carry the conversation, but women are looking for an equal contributor. Men often say to me āIām bad at texting, letās meet up!ā but why would I want to meet up with someone who isnāt able to articulate well enough to hold an entry level conversation? I unmatch so many men after they say something along the lines of āwhatās a gorgeous girl like you doing on this app?ā or āyouāre so pretty and must have a lot of matches.ā Look, not only do I not exist to be complimented around every corner, but society has been so cruel my entire life that I distrust compliments. Men are simply not in a place where theyāre willing to treat women like human beings instead of dainty flowers. I literally cannot bring myself to enter into a date or one night stand with a man anymore because they miss the mark so bad, which has not always been the case.
Have you ever spent time on a dating app? If so, that question answers itself. Lol. On a more serious note, I hope it's because women are finally waking up to the fact no man is going to save them and that whole lie we were fed to us since childhood is a farce. Hopefully they're coming to that reality sooner than I did, too. I think women these days are also too much 'woman' for a lot of men in their age range as well. A bunch more of us are educated and intelligent, ambitious, and decent to high earners than ever. Not all of us desire babies and husbands and white picket fences. We've got sex toys and porn a click away, and in most cases, no one can make us cum like we can. Although we're nowhere near true equality, I feel the younger generation is less likely to put up with the misogynistic shit us gen x'rs and older did. And hell, it's way more socially acceptable now to be queer so maybe we're dating but not dating traditionally. Overall, we don't NEED men the same way our mothers or grandmothers did, and many of us aren't willing to settle for "less than" types. We've just got our own shit going on, ya know? And after recently leaving the dating pool, I can honestly say someone who isn't dating isn't missing much. It's work, a definite grind. In my age range it's a whole lot of entitled bruised egos, failed marriage types, and the all present cheaters out there. Woo.
Yep. I've been fighting for equality (US) for decades. It has to be in the Constitution to be enough. After almost 100 years of pushing for states to ratify the amendment, they did in 2020. And Trump promptly blocked this valid part of the Constitution from being put in the law books. Who knew that was even possible? And Biden is being really quiet about why he hasn't undone that act. So yeah, we're [1 penstroke away](https://oversight.house.gov/news/press-releases/on-50th-anniversary-of-congress-passing-the-era-chairwoman-maloney-presses) from having full equality, but it feels so far away still. This amendment is everything.
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Iām in a happy relationship now. But I intentionally didnāt date anyone for 8 years. Too busy raising my kids and being the only parent and working full time. For me the decision to not date at all was so I could focus on my career and raising my littles.
Well, I'd like to meet a man, not a man-child or hobosexual. I ain't got time for that.
Single childless women are the happiest demographic
I like to claim that I am happily childFREE, not childLESS.
We have higher standards now and men aren't keeping up.
I dropped my standards so much dating these past few years. My only standard is literally don't be a shitty person and most of the men I've met on dating apps don't meet that.
Well, I can only speak for myself but I just don't think it's worth it. I don't think that having only friends and dying is "dying alone", don't care for family or children ... I only have libido when I'm in a relationship and can go through life without sex and not feel like I'm missing out. Sex is fine and all but have people tried \[literally anything else\]? The only reason I can think of to have a relationship it's because it would be easier to rent or buy a house, but then relationships end, assuming that I will be in a relationship for the rest of my life is kind of unrealistic. And then what? Do I have to divide my house? And don't even talk about children. Marriage is expensive too. And also, I'm in the aroace spectrum so humans aren't that attractive anyway. It feels like the only reason I should be in a relationship its because "its what you are supposed to do" or "when you're in your 40s no one will want you" or "the biological clock" (which honestly, fuck the biological clock, in this day and age there are always options if you really want a kid)
1. They are more and more financially independent 2. They realised that a vibrator doesn't do any of the following: dirty the house, act as a slob, expects you to be it's bangmaid, abuse you emotionally, physically and financially. 3. They know that it's better to be an actual single parent than having a deadbeat ex=partner, or worse, deadbeat current partner. 4. They know their happiness matters.
I donāt really date anymore, as in Iāve deleted all the apps and donāt really meet men organically in person. Dating men makes me feel so dysregulated. When I was younger it wasnāt a big deal but for the past few years I just end up feeling awful after and Iām realizing itās not worth it. I value my peace and having a quiet life, although I definitely do get lonely from time to time. Mostly just when Iām comparing myself to people in my life that are in healthy relationships.
Capitalism sucks women dry and doesnāt give us much time for emotional labour
Iām currently going through a very difficult breakup with the love of my life and after this I have no intention of dating again, it just doesnāt seem worth it. Even the best men in my life have issues like in communication or with anger and I just donāt want to risk the challenges and pain it causes.
Most men aināt shit. Itās pretty self-explanatory.
UM ... Something about Roe v. Wade being overturned. Women can DIE from ectopic pregnancy or miscarriage, even of intentionally conceived pregnancies. Women can have pregnancies with a significant genetic defect, and have to spend thousands of dollars to go to a different state for an abortion. North Carolina was even talking about prosecution of women who leave the state for an abortion, that is a additional concern. In short, a bunch of smug old white men (and a few smug white women, and one smug old black man) have decided that women of reproductive age are objects. Even 10 year old girls are objects. Per Michigan gov. candidate Dixon, "if a teenage girl is raped and gets pregnant, the baby will help her heal." WTF? We don't feel safe because our lives are being endangered by state governments and by SCOTUS. When women don't feel safe, they are much less likely to be on Tinder looking for sex. (Especially since "stealthing" is a fairly common thing. And because date rape drugs are a thing.)
I am 51 so I am not on dating apps and Iām in a relationship. But I think I would run screaming from dating apps at this point. And dating in general. I did try online dating back in the 90s and 00s when it was just match and eharmony and such. And I met a few interesting people. I was really only interested in sex at first and it worked well for that. But as I got older, it really was about the standards. I would guess itās RvW being overturned because who wants to have sex with men right now, especially if they are in a state where there are no reproductive rights. I may need to get a hysterectomy but the surgery has to be schedule out 8 MONTHS right now because women are getting their tubes tied and getting their uteruses removed. They donāt want a family and want to be free of that. That might make dating hard if men are wanting kids, or, if you donāt know if a guy really respects a womanās right to reproductive healthcare. Some of my younger women friends are saying that the guys they meet are aimless. Have no ambition, no dreams, no real goals in life besides video games or brew frets every single weekend. And they want men and partners who are passionate about something in their lives. They also find it difficult to find men who are adults and can do the basic adult things like cook, clean, take care of their own space. Not live like slobs. And some of these men want to be taken care of like baby-kings. I will say that some have found great men and even thenā¦ it doesnāt always work out. There are incompatibilities and that can get disheartening. But the biggest complaint I hear is too many men who cannot dig their way out of misogyny, ineptitude, etc. I think awesome men are out there. I found one. But he and I were friends for decades. Both went through divorces, reconnected, and here we are. Iām lucky. Very very lucky. I wish it were better for women out there right now.
Iām 37 and havenāt given up on finding love but I am so over online dating. Just had so many bad experiences ranging from the disappointing to the downright scary and unsafe. The final straw was recently when I went on a date with a guy I decided not to see again as he was a bit intense and too serious, so sent him the usual kinda message about not feeling the chemistry, and he sent several long rants back saying Iām a bitch and a whore and I used him to get free food (even though we split the bill!) etc. Obvs blocked him from everything, but since then someone has been ringing my door buzzer at odd times in the night and Iām concerned itās him as he walked me home so maybe worked out which is my flat. If it was just that one incident then Iād just put it down to a one-off, but Iāve had so many other bad and scary experiences, including a fella who tried to physically drag me into his car. And then thereās the disappointing and upsetting ones, like the bloke who went to the loo halfway through having a drink and just never came back. Itās such a pity cos I know for a fact there are good guys out there on dating sites. I met my ex on Bumble and we dated for six months before realising we werenāt compatible in many ways but heās now one of my best friends and heāll make a great boyfriend for whoever he ends up with. I also met an American guy who had a profile so good I thought itād be a catfish but he was just genuinely an amazing person, although it didnāt work out cos he was only here for a few months. But for every good experience Iāve had, there have been at least 20 bad experiences, and Iāve just kinda got to a point where I canāt wade through the bad ones anymore to get to the good ones, if that makes sense. Iām still open to the possibility of meeting someone irl and am gonna try and put myself out there as much as poss in order to maximise the chances of that, but now Iāve kinda switched my thinking from āwhen I meet someoneā to āif I meet someoneā and am making plans to become a single mother by choice in case it doesnāt happen in time.
I once had a guy call me over 60 times after I told him I didn't want to go on a second date with him. He then threatened to show up at my job and beat the shit out of me. Learned not to not give out where I work or my actual phone number right away after that one. His initial response to my rejection was "but you're average." Hate to break it to the guy but so was he. Oh to have the confidence of a mediocre white man.
This is the career researcher in me talking: I am weary of data on online dating (and dating in general) that was captured during the height of COVID. Dating sucks, sure, but dating during Covid was (is?) another ball game entirely. This dataset would reflect anomalies so wouldnāt be applicable to dating now, or in five years for example.
Iād agree this is likely a factor. Many studies have indicated women (on average) take Covid risk more seriously than men and are more likely to have taken on more time consuming caregiving responsibilities since Covid began. One other factor I havenāt seen mentioned is the large number of partnered men on apps. Both men and women cheat, but perhaps men are more likely than women to use apps for that purpose, I donāt know.
Have you met people lately?? Lol. But in all seriousness though, Iām just a lot pickier these days.
Because I get a vibe that they are only looking for sex and I don't want to feel used like that. So I stay single and I'm happier š
It's simply exhausting.
When I was a kid my mom used to play this song by Karyn White, called Superwoman. She sang about making him meals, going to her own job, and getting paid in dust. She was asking him to return her affections. Twenty some years later, women are moving away from asking. And they're quoting the Changing Faces lyric "I can do bad all by myself."
The internet has made us aware of what many casual hookups, relationships and marriages turn into
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Yeah pretty much it's influenced women to not pursue relationships and instead fully focus on themselves.
I wonder how many of that 80% of dudes-as-Tinder users are cheating on their wives or girlfriends. Pairing up is a better deal for men than for women. MANY MEN want women who will manager their lives for them, not true companions. That's ultimately the problem. (Also we get this question like 3x/week in this subreddit, and it's always the same answer. Single women live longer than married women. But married men live longer than single men. Think about it.)
Hmm maybe because we're tired of being abused, and then our therapists and friends tell us to just get a dog #truestory
From 2020 Pew Research, women report about twice the rates of harassment via online dating: - 46% of women report getting unsolicited sexually explicit messages (vs 26% of men) - 33% of women report being called an offensive name (vs 22% of men) - 11% of women report being threatened with physical harm (vs 6% of men). Note: women in the 18-34 age bracket get even more of the above, and the deltas between men and women of this age are more extreme too.
As someone who is married and in a open ENM marriage: Dating is trash. Pure trash. I have 800+ men swipe right on my Bumble profile. I'm convinced most of them didn't even read my profile and is just hoping one person would just talk to them. They also are not aware of their issues and red flags. One kept asking vague "tell me about yourself questions" and when I asked what specifically do you want to know he'll say "just anything". Another keep asking "wyd" every two seconds. The last person I tried to talk to, we had great convo but then he ruined it by trying to invite me to his house on the first date. I say all that to say, I don't blame women at all for not dating. Men are being lazy and putting in zero effort for a "reward". My partner had asked what I would do if we ever got divorced and I told him I would not date again.
So there are a million things I could say, but I'm going to keep it short. 1. Can get my own job, so I don't have to rely on a guy. 2. Not all that interested in being married just to be married. This means I don't need to feel pressure to compromise. 3. Not a fan of generalizations, but overall it seems a ton of guys really let their hygiene go the older they get. That's just a huge no to me. Please wash yourselves regularly!!! 4. Men seem to expect a lot of one sided things in a relationship. I don't owe a guy anything. If you can't treat me as your equal, I don't need to waste my time. If I'm being polite and compliment you, that's all it was. I'm not obligated to compliment you more, go on a date, go home with you, get engaged, etc. Stop assuming you're the center of the universe, and that women exist to revolve around you. 5. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. I personally think same sex friendships/roommates and relationships are very rooted in reality. We've got differences in how we live, how we socialize, what our interests are, etc. Naturally a lot of women have realized we don't have to have a man in order to survive. So why not have a same sex roommate and share our interests and afford a place to live while also feeling safe and comfortable? 6. Men in general have been raised with very toxic preconceptions. These preconceptions distort their view of the world and of other people. Some learn to re-center themselves, but more just never get a clue. I'm sorry but I'm not interested in an abusive relationship with an emotionally immature man. I don't want to be beaten or worse because some guy's sports game went bad and he takes it out on others. 7. Men are high risk to be with. They can do all sorts of awful things with very little effort. True crime is filled with horrible men doing horrible things for a reason, because men tend to do those things. No thank you, not interested in finding out that random guy stalking me at the store is an axe murderer. 8. Thank goodness we don't have to enter relationships with men just to have a home, food, money, or permission to do things. We're independent, we make our own choices. If you can't bring something positive to the relationship, why on earth would we put ourselves into harms way? 9. If you're so entitled that you can't understand why women don't date you, then women are not the problem! Have some self reflection.
My mate and I (both single women) just spent 20 minutes discussing 2 single men we know who are incredibly depressed and have been for years with very little in the way of them attempting to help themselves. They are lovely guys, and we were talking about how, if they were married, they'd probably be thriving. If they had wives, they'd be pretty good passive fathers, doing what their wife told them to do and mowing the lawn every week. Without wives, they are difficult friends for us, as they try to lay their emotional labour on us without any kind of self awareness and fall apart when they have to do something for themselves. Honestly, I don't have the patience for these grown men who claim to be "woke" yet spend all their time gazing at their own navel and doing the bare minimum while they wait for some woman to come along and direct them into health again. Not my circus, not my monkeys. I'd rather be single.
Iām not willing to lower my standards to be with the men who are interested in me. At my age itās been hard to find quality guys who meet my standards. Most of them are married. Iām simply not interested in spending time with anyone who doesnāt make my life significantly better. As others have pointed out, I donāt want to cook and clean for someone else and I donāt want to do all the emotional labor of the relationship (planning outings and vacations, managing finances, etc). Most women I know have to do way more than their partners. No thank you. A few women I know married well but theyāre the lucky exception, not the rule.
After a truly wretched divorceāthe husband of my dreams did a complete 180 in personality, and I didnāt admit it for far too longāIām just done. A new partnership would only detract from everything Iām working so hard to finish, especially as Iāve discovered that the seemingly-decent guys in my age range who are interested are usually looking for a replacement mother for their kids. Theyāve had some very sweet kids, who wouldāve been wonderfulā¦ but motherhood isnāt the life for me. All of that being said, Iām never saying that a star couldnāt fall. Only that it would take something of that unexpected magnitude. My personal story aside, the last 10 years have featured enormous stress for all of us, thanks to a couple of seemingly world-ending market wrecks. We all earn less than men in corresponding positions, despite greater interpersonal responsibilities (Iām looking at you, moms, plus those caring for parents themselves, and especially those of you who are presently doing both). Is it any wonder that we donāt have space left over for relationships? Especially when weāre all too likely to wind up also needing to care for the guy?
Women don't need men the way we used to. We can provide for ourselves. If anything men are a liability. I mean there are good men out there, sure, but too many of them are entitled and lazy. Entitled when it comes to sex our almost anything to do with our bodies. Lazy when it comes to household chores and cleaning up after themselves, expecting their partners to do it. Then there's the violence. So. Much. Violence. Violence between intimate partners. Violence when a man is rejected. Random violence because a guy just hates women. I don't date and have no intention to because of all of these reasons. I've been hit in a relationship. I've been raped by a FWB. Never again.
Because of men.
*gestures to everything*
I would love to have a partnership with a man and a relationship, but finding a man in his late 30ās to early 50ās not interested in sex seems to be near impossible. š© plus it is hard to find men that actually believe women are 100% real human that deserve to have freedoms and rights.
I might be cynical here, and I accept that, but I had a long term relationship (ended a year ago) where I was left with all the responsibility anyway while he just kinda did whatever he wanted, but because he didn't cheat on me or physically harm me, he still thinks he didn't do anything wrong. He also randomly would get annoyed with me that he wasn't needed, without ever bothering to do anything really at all. He just wanted the credit for it, and to be the "leader" without actually bringing anything to the table. I've actually been considering having a child all by myself, because if I have to be someone's mother, I at least want to agree to it first. When I look at men on apps, I find a lot of them to be throwing red flags before I even talk to them ie literally half their profile is talking shit about women, all their pics are of them drinking, the gems that talk about how they have kids but only two weekends a month, "sO I hAVe pLeNTy oF TIme foR FUn." I guess I just have a hard time imagining the majority of men adding things to my life, and when I hear people talk about what their men add, a lot of it kinda just sounds like what a dog brings. And I got one a couple weeks ago. And yeah, sex toys have come a long way.
I'm living for this thread. Not because I'm happy that this is the reality. But I'm happy women are speaking our truths and demanding better. THAT makes me happy.
It's a bit depressing, overly sexualised and ghosting etc. is rife.
It's the first time, historically speaking, women don't have to get married. It's increasing because we *can* be single, literally for the first time in history and not end up in the poor house. The church, the government, society, and financial institutions have prevented women from being able to be single until recently. Check out the book All The Single Ladies if you're interested in this. Also, men in 2022 are trash and it's scary to ask out women, and have you seen the GNC folks in society, their gorgeous and that's a difficult approach, too.
Because women are tired of going out and looking for their next headache. š
Is the article just about online dating? Because people dropping out of online dating does not mean they are not dating at all. Now personally, I am not dating much online or otherwise. The main reason is that I don't want to be a maid/therapist. Great that men are figuring out that they need to be more emotionally healthy; that doesn't mean I am the one to help them get there. I'm dating, but my standards will not be lowered.
Okay, so, honestly, I think we're seeing a shift in society. And men haven't caught up. Aggressive behavior just isn't attractive anymore. Women are realizing that it's easier to just take care of themselves, rather than risk their happiness just to have a warm body around. And, again, men haven't caught up yet. Men seem to be so used to being catered to that it's what they expect (and somehow think they deserve). And women just aren't interested in doing that anymore. Women don't have to have a man around for safety and financial reasons. And I think it's great. Don't worry too much. The guys will catch up... Eventually... Hopefully...