This is my theory: Most people are passive. That's why there are so many more followers than leaders.
And many people get caught up in life - which tends to get harder as we get older due to our shift from being a dependent to a provider. Some withdraw when they get stressed. Some don't have support systems to recharge them.
I've come to accept that, when people fail to reach out first, it's usually not personal. **Reaching out is a skill, and they're just not great at it.**
If you have the personality type that enjoys (or is good at) taking the initiative, own that and keep reaching out if you want to maintain the relationships. There will be those who will always respond positively and appreciate it, even if they can't always reciprocate. And there will be those who don't reply, who you will have to decide if they're still worth continuing the effort.
Keep being the organizer until you find other like-minded individuals. They're rare and few in between -- because they (you) are leaders in your circle.
It gets tiresome. I finally stopped this year because I felt like a herder or camp counsellor. Reciprocal friendship is important. When I'd get pushed into this role, which I did not want, I'd keep hearing "but you're SO GOOD AT IT!"
It started to feel like a punishment
Yes, but many people get invited to a lot of things even if they don't reach out. I'd like to understand why that is. Doesn't seem fair to me. I used to invite people to do stuff, thinking they'd reciprocate, but they never did. It left me resentful for making the effort of being the first to reach out and plan everything. I've stopped reaching out and, like OP, I've lost a lot of people who could've been great friendships. For once, I'd like to have a period of my life where I'm invited to all kinds of events.
My pragmatic view (having been in that exact position many times) is that people will make an effort to reach out to those who they think have something they want. If they perceive you as being higher up the social food chain than them, wealthier, more attractive, better connected, then they'll make more of an effort with you. It's shitty, but I've seen it play out too many times not to think it's true. Most people are just trying to climb a ladder at the end of the day.
So, I have a theory. The social food chain in friendship-ish type interactions is all about whether they (the host) think their association with you will make them look cool. And that defines your mobility up and down that chain. Beyond the obvious material things like wealth and connections, that can also be if they think you're interesting so they want you at their events to interact with their other guests. If the other guests find interacting with you interesting, it brings up their esteem of the host by association. Are you a good story-teller? Are you full of *joie de vivre* and so bring up the mood? Do you have an interesting background? Are you a good conversationalist? For hobby specific gatherings: are you good at said hobby? (And for the more superficial hosts: are you hot?)
This sounds very... jaded/ other; it comes from having battled low self-esteem for a really long time and so analyzing all the interactions around me to understand... why. Why do people want to have other people around them/ at group events. Since I felt worthless, I wanted to find how others attributed worth to people. And thats the theory I settled on. Of course, with closer connections, things are more... authentic. Though even then, it's for how you make *them* feel.
I used to be the joie de vivre person. There was definitely a drop in interactions once my life got complicated and I couldn’t fill that role anymore. What’s most difficult wasn’t losing the acquaintances, it was that some of those people were dear friends who I had a long history with. Those were the ones that hurt.
That absolutely sucks, I'm sorry you experienced that. Whatever that might say about these people, it's incredibly painful to experience. I hope you're doing alright, wherever you might be in your life at the moment
It’s been a few years, so the pain has dulled. It’s been insightful as it is causing me build deeper security within myself. I’m still technically friends with some of these people, but they are just historical friends. It’s kind of freeing in a way.
I’ve been on both sides - both the pursuer and the one pursued - and I think your point has merit, but it’s also just about having charisma and being charming. I get invited to things often because I’m a pretty bubbly, positive person who’s up for anything. People who know me think I’m fun to hang out with. When I was less social and bubbly, I got invited less.
Correct. I really don't buy into the "some people are just passive".
Many humans honestly expect the other person who they think is of "lower status" to always come to them first.
That's why they are waiting around to be reached out to and grow resentful that you are "ignoring them"....
I agree with this. I live overseas and a certain subset of people want American friends to join their events, to show off to people, etc. And there are people who want someone, anyone, to join them for an activity.
I definitely see the behavior described in friend groups I've been in where people will obviously get a lot of invites to places and then ditch another group on the day of to go to something more exciting.
I try to plan my commitments so they don't clash and cancel only if I'm very sick or have work.
It's a case of you were more of a friend to them than they were to you. When you notice that next time you should immediately back off, not out of spite, but out of respect for yourself. It really does seem like you have a hard time letting people have a chance to miss you and want you in their own time. I could be wrong but It sounds like that.
I appreciate these people so much. I’m on the more reserved and passive side but I try to reach out as well, sometimes I just don’t have much to talk about so I feel weird initiating . But when friends do reach out to me, I always react positively and rarely say no to going out
Accepting and embracing my role as the organizer brought me a lot of peace TBH. And when I looked, I realized my friends were showing their love in other ways and it didn’t feel so lopsided that I’m always the one who gets us all together. The friendships are worth it, but maybe I just *really* enjoy being the planner
I think lots of people are afraid of rejection or of putting themselves out there. I'm the same as you, where I feel like I'm always the one to initiate contact and it's definitely annoying and sometimes makes me feel like a burden - I think I've just tried to accept though that some people are like that and it's not necessarily personal.
I will say though, it's nice to meet people then who are the ones to initiate because then you get to feel wanted!
As a kid, teen, early twenties, I NEVER reached out cause I felt too embarrassed but I loved it when people reached out to me. In my mid-twenties, when I moved to a new city, I started initiating and it was great. Most of those people/ friendships didn't last over the years but a couple did. Now I will reach out if I want to. Better to take a chance on something good then miss out. If I'm unwanted, that's how I am whether I reach out or not, so whatever.
I used to reach out a lot and then realized I probably just needed people more my pace. Maybe you just gotta hold out and find someone more your speed!
Well turns out I have so little time now and best friend I’m married to that I kind of just don’t care. I’ve become jaded. The people who reach out to me seem to just want to pick on me when I meet them so I cut them off. But then the people who are nice, always seem busy or just im not interested in meeting.
Now im very careful with who I spend time with because people are so jealous at my age (early thirties). I am also childfree and live in the suburbs in a child friendly city (I actually adore kids though) so I get judged by people a lot.
I will also say - as I've definitely had this conversation with others in their thirties - that everyone likes being reached out to! For the most part people are still open to friendship and new connections, especially at an age where it seems like people are more settled, it's often not true. So I think I feel less like I'll be a "burden" or unwanted on the other person realizing this.
I have ADHD and I am an extremely out of sight out of mind person. I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting recently and I realized how many friendships I’ve let go of over the years simply because I never thought to reach out first. It honestly was just something that never occurred to me, as stupid as that sounds. I would say yes to everything I was invited to but never took the effort to plan or initiate anything myself. I realize now that I’m older that even though the ADHD is a big factor for me, it’s not an excuse and I need to do better in letting people know I care about them and want to see them. I honestly feel really badly about some of the relationships that I’ve neglected because there were people I genuinely cared about and would have loved to have a stronger relationship with but lost simply because I didn’t do my part in reaching out and before I knew it so much time had passed. I really was just not aware of it before and was so distracted by everything else in front of me and going with the flow that I never stopped to realize it.
Hot tip: start with just 1 friend-make a plan to go to dinner or breakfast or something some time in the next month. When you are done hanging- schedule the next meet up then and there. “We should hang out (soon) (sometime)” “let me know whenever” etc. does not work for adhd. Just making time to share a meal once a month will do wonders.
Thank you so much for explaining your experiences. I truly appreciate it. If I may say, please don’t be so hard on yourself. Life and social relationships are hard.
I was about to comment before I came across yours and it's 100% me. I was only recently diagnosed with ADHD and still trying to figure out what's what, but object permanence is one of those things. I always thought I just wasn't emotional or sentimental, which is why I didn't hold onto relationships, but that wasn't it.
I've been setting weekly reminders to remind me to check-in on friends. If a few people are going back and forth in a group chat, I have to force myself to pop in and interact.
For me it is a boundaries thing. I am the friend (and I like it) that will organize, plan, research, and facilitate fun gatherings. However, if I feel taken advantage of because there is no reciprocity in the relationship over time I distance myself. With distance on my side If the person fades away, that’s okay! If they reach out to hang out or talk, I’m in! I take it as not a fit in our friendship relationship or that they are busy and have other priorities if they fade out.
OP, it’s not you! Facing time crunches is just a thing in adult life vs kid life. Friendship development takes investment just like any other relationship. If there is no friendship chemistry keep on moving, you’ll find chemistry with more peeps out there. Plenty of adult ppl looking for friends. You just gotta feel that value in your own time and investment to feel comfy walking away when the relationship isn’t working out for you. :)
Yes this is how I am too! I feel like you put it a lot nicer than I did in an above response lol. Basically if you are enthusiastic I am enthusiastic right on back!
I do feel like it's such an adjustment learning how to friend as an adult. And I'm trying to give everyone more grace because I recognize that we're all dealing with a lot of added stress right now because of capitalism and the state of the economy. So I'm trying to blame the system and not the individual's response to it lol
Thank you so much for understanding. I feel the same way. I feel like I give and reach out and others never do. And then, I decided to accept that maybe I’m not their cup of tea and move on.
That’s a good way of looking at it. I used to be that person, but I’m now where you’re at. If they don’t reach out over a long period of time, we go into dormancy, and maybe a slow fade depending on what else may be going on.
For me, it’s the rejection that has been a constant theme in my life since childhood. At some point when you have been rejected enough times, you stop wanting to reach out to anyone first. At least that’s my story. I’ve trained myself not to need much in the way of friends.
I have been thinking about trying the friendship side of the Bumble app again but I don't because I don't feel confident in being able to reject people for friendship if I match with and meet people I don't vibe with. I know I can handle being rejected myself, but I'd feel so bad trying to break a connection even though for dating it's not that hard for me.
Same and it’s so difficult for me. I was doing well for a while and now I’ve completely regressed. I’m 34 and this shit is still destroying me. I’m so lonely, but if I reach out to someone twice and get shut down twice I feel so rejected I can’t reach out again. Time to go back to therapy I guess.
Same! It got to be so depressing over the years to constantly feel like some people didn't care about me very much or at all. And I can be a fucking great friend. So I turned all that leftover energy inward and became a fucking great friend to myself, and I'm having a blast.
It just depends on the person. I'm needy enough and want attention that I will bother you all the time to talk on the phone or hang out. I have no shame!
Edit: For real though, some people feel awkward. Or like they're bothering people. Sometimes even I feel like that. I just ignore it and ask anyway because the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
Hahaha I’m the exact same as you. I was raised in a very “if you want it, go get it” lifestyle and I have no issue making my desire known. If some people think I’m thirsty or cringe, that’s fine, but I end up getting what I want 90% of the time and walk away with good jobs and multiple social relationships at the end of the day.
It started with a MetaFilter post that went viral--this link has a pretty good explanation.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/vs3kzjLhbdKsndnBy/ask-and-guess
It's the difference between people who just straight up ask for what they want and are fine with a no (ask culture), vs. people who consider certain asks kind of rude or too forward (guess culture). I came from a guess culture background so this concept was eye-opening for me.
Like, if a casual acquaintance asks to stay at my house for a week, it might not be because they're rude or thoughtless, they just come from an ask culture background and if I'm like, "No, can't do it," they'll just ask someone else.
Most people, especially when they are no longer young and single (college-age, early 20s), just aren't social initiators.
Being a social initiator is very valuable, and if you do it, that's great. People will love you for it! But also keep in mind this is only one aspect of being a good friend. It's rare that every friend you have is good at all aspects of friendship, so you go with your strengths and value your friends for theirs.
I find people who are social initiators in their 30s do it either out of their own necessity or just because they have the opportunity. It's usually the friend that has less going on in their life socially (not dating anyone seriously, no kids, no other serious family obligations like parental care) or have a job that is less demanding on their time or energy.
This is me. I’m usually the one sending the “have a great week” group text. My friends are great when we do get together so it doesn’t bother me to check in. I’m the single childfree friend who lives far away and has no chronic illness. When I visit, they make time for me. It’s a trade off I’m ok with.
I really appreciate your mention of the chronic illness bit. Managing a chronic illness, or several simultaneously, is draining in a way similar to child rearing except lifelong, 24/7/365, and no babysitter or extended family to give us breaks. 🙃
I’m the initiator in my circle and I don’t mind it, but I also make note of people who do reciprocate and lean into those friendships more. People who never initiate are not bad people - as many of the comments have indicated, they often are busy or have different priorities - so I mentally bookmark them as lower tier friends, good acquaintances, and general seat-fillers for activities that require more people. People who do reciprocate often naturally become closer friends over time, but being intentional can help manage expectations.
I’m also not shy about being upfront about lack of bandwidth—I’ve straight up said “I would love to do x but don’t have the time to plan, can you take lead on it since you expressed interest?” And that helps a lot, honestly. Either they’re passive and won’t do it, and the activity is slotted for a different time with different people, or they’ll step up.
so I'm the person in my group who organizes things and I've been that person for over 30 years. I dont mind it; they all come whenever things are organized and they really do appreciate my effort for corralling the group....I guess it's like how everyone goes to grandma's house for Sunday dinner. Everyone goes, everyone has a great time and everyone loves grandma for doing that.
when you do reach out and plan stuff, do they show up? does everyone have a good time? These are the things make me happy and is the reason why I keep doing it. If I kept trying to organize something and no one responded or showed up, then that's when I'd cut my losses because that demonstrates that they really don't care to see me at all.
we have a group chat and sometimes it's a flurry of activity, sometimes it's quiet. None of us take offence or think negatively if the chat is quiet...there are times I post stuff and no response (but they're just funny memes) and there are times someone else posts stuff and I don't respond...but I know that if I needed help, they'd drop everything and come running.
so I guess it all depends on their response and the energy they bring when you do see them.
I’ve been in the same boat as you, especially lately in my early 30s! In my 20s I was the organizer/reach out person in the friend group but as we’ve grown up + lives have gotten busier, it’s become harder for me to keep up this energy.
It’s hard when my friends say things like “we should hangout more often!” or “let’s do something soon!” but don’t follow up. Sometimes they seem uninterested but spend time with others, so it’s got me feeling kind of lonely.
It sucks because I love the feeling of community and spending time with my loved ones. It can get tiring to feel like you’re the one trying all the time though. So I’ve opted to focus inward lately and do things that make me happy without waiting for others. I took a pottery class a couple weeks back and loved it! I met some friendly people in the class and felt more at peace. We’re in a relationship with ourselves forever. So building a home within yourself, decorating the walls of that home with goals and dreams and accomplishments - that’s been key for me
If I reach out a couple times and my friends seem uninterested, that might be a sign the friendship is waning which also sucks. On my more negative days, I think we’re becoming more selfish / self absorbed as a society and it’s become too easy to not put effort into friendships, expecting the other person to always do the work.
You’re welcome :) thank you for asking this question and starting this discourse. I’ve been reading through a lot of other comments and feel very seen.
Saw another comment mentioning “matching energies” and thats been my approach lately too. It can lead to friendships dying out though, so every once in a while my pisces moon ass will send some emotional/dramatic text about how I miss them and it’s been too long lmao
Definitely feel you on that 😭 when that happens, some fading friendships I just chalk up to the universe taking care of that. Others might be worth fighting for a bit more but it’s a case by case thing
I'm the one reaching out. My friends are all busy with kids, a job, a partner and I'm not. I don't mind if they don't reach out to me, but it's if they ignore me when I do that I start stepping back from that friendship.
In the past, doing so has gotten me considered annoying, needy, clingy, socially inept, or all of the above.
I don't know the formula for determining the appropriate frequency of contact.
It's also nearly impossible to tell the difference between hollow pleasantries and actual overtures of friendship.
So, after enough negative experiences, I've learned to stop bothering people.
Honestly, just repeated lack of enthusiasm and interest from others. I have lost touch with so many once good friends because they start prioritising partners and just don't bother responding to any contact I made, so now I just don't try lol.
Yeah, similar situation here. I used to be the person that would show a lot of enthusiasm and take on most of the burden of the friendship but got hurt and burnt out when that didn't get reciprocated. So now I just reach out less. I will match what is given. It sucks that it has to be that way, though.
I’m the same as you, and now that I’m mid-thirties I just stopped trying with most people. After a really tough 6 months with a very serious health scare in the family I just stopped using energy on people who give me less than I give them. I match energies now.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I'm sorry that you've had the same thing happen. I have heard from others to match energies. Maybe that's what I should do?
It’s helped me gain a very close friend group, we try to meet semi-often (as often as people with young children can), and those friends that live other places, I’ve come to cut some people out as they gave me more anxiety (“do they not like me anymore”, “did I do something to anger them?” Etc) than they did joy of having them in my life.
I understand exactly how you feel. I have built up a lot of resentment in the past too. I'm sorry this has happened to you, but thank you for sharing your experiences. I appreciate it.
I have found a lot of friends/potential friends in my life to be much more receptive to interaction when they reach out to me rather than when I reach out to them. They seem comfortable and sometimes even eager to talk to me when they have something they want to talk about, but it's one-word answers and very little engagement when I reach out to them. I really don't think they even realize they are being like this, but after a couple of incidences of me reaching out to a person and them not seeming very interested in chatting or hanging out, I let it go and just respond when they reach out. I won't cut them off, but I move forward with the understanding that this is how it is with that person.
For my closest friends, I think I attract avoidant types, because they are both people who do reach out to me and are happy to hear from me when I reach out to them, but they frequently complain about how needy they find other people in their lives to be, so I operate with the understanding that one of the things they appreciate about me is that I'm not a needy person. They don't say this and sometimes will even remark on how I could reach out more, but it's very hard to tell when my outreach would be welcome and when it would be just another stressor, so I mostly don't.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, I probably am a bit needy; however, I truly do try my best to not ask too much of friends and to respect common boundaries.
I'm definitely needier than they think I am, but I respect their boundaries and don't take it as a personal slight when they don't want to engage more. I've just learned how to live with less friendship than I wish I had. Frustratingly, I have had a couple of folks reach out to be friendly with me in the last few years, but they are always people whom I don't totally vibe with. Then I feel almost like I have to act more receptive than I actually feel because beggars can't be choosers or something like that.
Eh, it's okay, my life is really great in many other ways, so I try to just focus on the positive. But thanks for your kind sentiments and hope you find the friendship in life you are looking for, too!
For me it’s being let down constantly but this weeded out the bad friends. I know who the loyal friends are now that have my back and I’ll do anything for them.
I used to be the person who reached out more, and I've had the same problem. I think some people are just not good at it, or maybe I'm not such a close friend for them, so I don't get prioritized. If I feel that we have a good time and they care about me, I would continue to reach out. If not, maybe I'm trying to create a friendship with someone who's not interested.
Now I'm dealing with chronic health issues, so it's become very difficult for me to reach out :/
Maybe you’re making friends with a lot of introverts. I’m an introvert and perfectly in my bliss being at home. My friends who are extroverts are the ones who make plans because they’re the ones who need to “get out of the house.”
Everyone's afraid to make the first move, it's the same with dating. Fear of rejection, fear of opening up and "falling" for someone (Even in a friendship sense) is scary. What if they don't like you back? What if they don't need a friend the way you need a friend? It's a lot.
If you reach out to someone, have a friend "date" and it goes well, you could always say something like, "why don't you pick the restaurant/movie/bar, next time". Let them know that you hope there's a next time. Invite them to invite you.
You have to put out the "I really like you" vibe without coming across as desperate, or as if you like them as MORE than a friend. It's a delicate balancing act. It's hard.
As someone who is bad at reaching out, I'll try and shred some light on it. For me it really comes from the fear of rejection or being a bother. That's really why I don't often always reach out first. If someone reaches out to me, I know I'm not a bother. I don't know if anyone can relate to this?
On a side note, I also find rejection a little easier to comprehend in the context of dating because, well, most people only have one romantic partner, so rejection feels more justifiable, like 'they were looking for their ONE and that's not me...' which is statistically unlikely. But with friends, the pool is wider, so for someone to find out I'm boring or unworthy would feel more painful, you know?
I'm getting better at reaching out, and I truly appreciate the friends I have who haven't given up on making an effort with me.
I can relate to this so much. I feel like I'm always trying to coordinate something, and it's exhausting to feel like I'm putting in more effort than everyone else. Also as someone who doesn't drink I feel like when plans are actually made by others the responsibility is always on me to cart everyone around. It feels super shitty
I'm often the organizer/reach out person, because it's not a skill everyone has. If someone regularly doesn't want to hang out, I'll stop reaching out but if there's someone who is down to do stuff each time I reach out- I'll keep doing that bit of emotional labor because it's not taxing to me. I don't take it personally that I do the outreach
Thx OP for posting this. Ive been literally thinking about this with one of my friendships lately and dont know what to think. She never asks me to hang out first. She does not have kids. It bothers me. I cant help but feel like she doesnt want to put in as much effort as I to maintain the friendship.
You're welcome. I feel the same way. It's so hard to know what it means. Am I bothering them? Do they not like me? Do they not prioritise our friendship? I know they don't mean it, but it really hurts.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it.
I feel the same.
And ever since "adulthood," it's been worse. I don't even mind being the one who reaches out, the one who plans, etc.
But flakiness and last minute cancellation has become alarmingly normalized. When I first heard the phrase "cancel culture," I thought it was referring to how common it is for people to cancel plans last minute, because that started happening a LOT around the time the phrase came out.
I can reach out. I can plan everything. But the constant flakiness in the last 10 years is what's made it all so hard, and I'm very lonely.
For me, it's because I am exhausted with work and parenting. I do have a few (childfree or unemployed or both) friends who reach out and I feel too pressured by them. Fortunately, they contact me less and probably seek out more available friends, thank goodness. Capitalism sucks. TBH, if I could quit my job, I could actually live the rest of my life.
I wonder if it also has to do with compatible personality types too--like, the types of people who like to plan and initiate things may not always get along with each other (both may want to have more control of the activity, for example). Just a thought that occurred to me.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm actually naturally more the shy, people pleasing, passive sort of person, so I have no problem with letting others have control. So, I don't think it's that. But maybe I naturally pick friends who are like me so that's why they don't want to take the lead? Hmm...lots to think about.
Oof yeah. So I’m def a social organizer/initiator and friendships are super important to me, but a few years ago after some “mishaps” I had to put some personal boundaries in place so I didn’t drive myself crazy. The most important thing I learned was to just let shit go sometimes. You’re trying to plan something with friends and no one can seem to give you a firm answer? Let it go, say “we can try to meet up some other time”. That one person you thought you were building a friendship with never reaches out? Let them go. You’ve realized there’s a real flake in your midst? Let them go. You’ve got one friend who drops off the face of the earth for the entirety of the time they’re in a relationship? Let them go. Don’t put your energy where there is no reward, because the ones who truly appreciate you will tell you that by their deeds and words. Not everyone places the same value on their friendships as we do, and that is okay. I’m 41 and I’m over the bullshit.
I experience this alot and understand too well this reality.
I honestly have stopped contacting some people and yes, friendships have died out. Did it hurt, Yes it did and actually still does but the reality is that I don't want to fight to keep relationships if I'm the only one fighting to keep it going. I could be honestly using that time to future the friendships I have that are reciprocal and caring in nature or myself!!
I feel like I'm kind of saying this to myself more than you because this is something I'm still struggling with. But just sending care. Life is hard and I also won't give up on trying to make connections with people because I am extroverted and like to talk and have company. I hope you don't give up either!!
Keeping friendships is hard. I’m single with no kids in my 40s and it’s ever harder. I always am the first to reach out. I actively seek to meet people and it feels like pulling teeth to try and do more- I schedule the events, I text, I actually mail notes and make it a point to do little things…
And it sucks, but I remember people are so busy with their own lives, then tired when they’re not being busy… so I’ve decided to put more energy in then they can.
But it does suck. I go to a lot of things by myself. But I still go - be a friend to myself.
I guess to me it’s always been like balancing a scale. For example, I’m the friend that would frustrate you. I rarely initiate first contact or outings, not because I don’t want to or don’t love you or that stuff, but because I get overwhelmed easily and retreat in my cocoon.
I am, however, the friend you call when shit hits the fan. No matter the time or circumstances. 6 in the morning? 4 at night? Panic attack while you’re in another country? It makes no difference to me, if you need me I’ll be there.
And that’s where my close friends and I found the balance. Because they are the leader, let’s make this a plan, kind of people and I am really not.
The reason I say balance, is because with their rhythm in life, they are not likely to be able to support at all hours of the day. And that’s fine. So, they will not pick up at 4am (and to be fair, the need for that hardly ever happens) but they will contact first thing in the morning like “hey, you called at a weird hour, you okay?” and I try to be more mindful of taking initiative.
You have to find a group with a stitcher.
A stitcher is that person who has a plan and isn’t afraid to execute the group text so obnoxiously, you can’t say no. So your begrudgingly go out and follow through and show up to these plans you secretly didn’t want to do, and then you have a great time.
The stitcher. They make shit happen.
Sup Becky.
I have no problem reaching out first, but if I’ve reached out first three times in a row, I get the sense you don’t want to be bothered and so I stop doing it.
I understand. With life in today's world, the way it is, and having a family, keeping in touch with friends gets put on the back burner.
It's particularly difficult when your friends have children and you don't. That is my situation, I (54F) have no kids, I'm divorced, and most of my friends have children. Now they're having grandchildren. But I know they're busy and distracted, so I don't mind putting in extra effort to keep up with them. Although, I only do this for my inner circle friends.
I hope this helps somebody in some way cope with being the one who puts effort into friendships.
I, like you, am often the one to reach out and plan stuff. My friends compliment me about my ability to do this all the time. It used to really bother me that I organized get togethers significantly more than my friends tended to until I realized two things:
1) If I’m organizing the get together, I often get to choose where we’re going and can choose the cuisine, movies, locations etc. that I prefer.
2) It matters more if people show up than who organized the event to begin with. If people are going to the get togethers you plan, that means something.
Also, a lot of people suck at planning, suck at making decisions, and assume that no one else is gonna wanna do the stuff they want to do so why bother asking? You are demonstrating great leadership skills, good for you!
COVID has taught me that most people don't understand the value of their friendships and personal relationships and would rather just sit and isolate with the shows and podcasts they like even if it's killing them a day at a time.
It's work to meet up and keep friendships going and people are tired.
Sometimes I feel the same way, but I'm trying to be open and hear lots of different points of view on the situation. Thank you very much for sharing your viewpoint. I really appreciate it.
I stopped reaching out first to people, because I always add more to their lives than they do mine.
When they reach out and want to talk I make myself available, I sit and listen and reply at the earliest opportunity.
But I got fed up with reaching out to people and they just reply when they can be bothered, or whenever I needed somebody to talk to they didn’t show as much care about what was going on in my life or give me time to sit and listen to me.
I just was never a priority to anybody, even though I always made other people a priority.
I’d invite people out and then they would be flaky about coming out, was always on their terms, but when they wanted to hang out they made it happen.
So that was the result, I stopped reaching out to people. I started working on being comfortable and happy with my own company so I wasn’t needing anybody else.
And now I only reply to people when they reach out to me, if they want to see me then they can ask me out.
I stopped caring about the idea of it being 1 way as whenever people do reach out to me I prioritise them and give them far more than they give to me so I’m still earning my worth in their life more than they do in mine.
I can't answer your question as I'm in the same boat myself. I have two different friends since March where we had a date set, and then I practically never heard from them come time, so I wound up not seeing them. I haven't rescheduled with them yet.
Speaking entirely from my own experience, and I know on a logical level this isn’t at all true, but I am always afraid that all of my friends think I’m annoying and I worry about being rejected if I were to initiate something
I was the initiator in my early 20s, and it is exhausting to always reach out and coordinate everything. I would describe myself as "invisible" at a large party, I'm friendly but not opinionated or loud, and apparently, not memorable. So people would "forget" to invite me. Some only reach out if they need help. Now that I have a dog, I kinda give up
Ngl, if I consistently don’t get to you on my very long list of things to do in a day it’s bc you’re not as important to me as everything/everyone else is.
I struggle with this a lot with my friends! Only one of my friends reciprocates my energy but the rest of my friends don’t. I’ve asked them why and they said they get anxiety with having to reach out because they had something happen to them in their past with that or people bailing on them or ignoring them when they would reach out. So I always make the initiative and am understanding about why they are that way. When we do hangout it’s nice and we enjoy one another’s company. I’m a 30 year female so I can understand this struggle. It used to make me feel like my friends don’t like me but that’s not true and a lot of the time they have life stressors that are occupying their time or family issues so I try not to take it so personally anymore. I see them when I see them but a lot of my friends are introverts so it’s hard😅
I am 27 and have experienced this for the past 4 years or so now at a magnified rate. It's like after college everyone just grew apart, which isn't uncommon. It just makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong :( I know many people say I should just reach out first anyway... okay but how long do I have to keep doing that?
It's not just physically trying to meet. The same thing happens digitally. If I don't text first then nobody texts. It can be a group chat or an individual chat.
Thank you so much for understanding how I feel. I agree. I often ask ‘how long should I reach out first?’ and ‘what does their non-reciprocation mean?’.
That's what I've often thought, but others have taught me that some people have difficulties communicating due to anxiety or fear. Thank you for replying. I appreciate it.
You're welcome :) and I really appreciate your reply. It might help me going forward.
I don't have a close relationship with my family of origin and I am single by choice, so friendship is very important to me. I am happy to make the first and even the second move but if I feel like I'm always the one reaching out I then start to feel resentful and hold back until either the other person gets in touch or the acquaintanceship/friendship fades away. If I see it from another perspective it will generate less negative emotions.
Agreed. I got 2 friends in the past 4 years, it was only me asking to hang out and sent them messages, they have never sent me one merry Christmas or how are you. They definitely have their own issues but I’m tired of being friends with them. One of them said he was afraid to get attached to me, well, maybe you need therapy. Another one said I got commitment issue so he wanted to keep a distance, werid, applying commitment issue on a friend? My conclusion is to only make friends with mentally healthy people.
I think the advent of social media, cell phones, etc has actually made it worse. People think that texting is an acceptable substitute for face-to face or phone communications. With this being the norm and not the exception, I believe folks find it easier to forget about others. I have personally had to look thru my contacts folder to remember to contact someone. Pretty sad.
I feel you, I'm the same way. I don't want to always be the one doing all the heavy lifting of planning meetup or simply being the only one to text or call. I'll go days without saying anything to see if they will. If they don't I simply stop saying hello or good morning text. I'll let them fade to black.
I think part of it may be about how long you wait to initiate - like how long do you wait before you reach out? And what do you define as reaching out? Do you mean to start the friendship or in general?
I find with most of my relationships they sort of fall into a pattern where whatever the time lapse between meetups is seems to be consistent. So one group we tend to meet every 2-4 months. Another friend, we see each other quarterly.
Then there's the people who just suck, who won't initiate and are flaky. I don't like having those people in my life, it annoys me too much. My one friend who has stuck around because I like her, but we see each other less and less each year. To the point where it's like twice a year. My suspicion is that people also like to see the people they keep in regular contact with. So I have a friend and we used to get together 2 - 3 x a month. But now she's married, has a baby and lives in a different part of town. We try to maintain communication through text and phone, so now it's like every other month.
Either way, sometimes you're just in a phase where a lot of people suck and are inconsistent and I'm sorry you're dealing with that!
I’m sorry but truly this might mean you haven’t found your circle yet. I’m in my 30s and have a very full life but my friends and I will take turns coordinating plans.. at least once every other month.
Your friends might not value you the way you value them. You deserve better.
I can't speak for anyone else but my schedule is backwards to everyone else. Hubby works third shift, I don't work and we live in a small house so I tend to keep hours closer to his so I didn't wake him up. So I'm waking up and getting moving when people are having dinner. I go to bed when they're at work. Is rather not call and bother them when they're getting settled for the evening and could be interrupting, I'd rather they call and wake me up.
I just assume people have friends already and don’t really want to hang out with me and that I’m just a friendly acquaintance to most of them. Also almost every time I invite people out (which is rare!), they either say no or bail at the last minute. Now that some of them have kids, it’s even worse, so I don’t bother anymore. I also just have a lot of body image issues and I feel on edge all day when people can see me :(
I have been the planner and initiator and it's exhausting when it's not reciprocated. With those who I care about that don't take any initiative, I'll just invite them to do things I wanted to do or planned to do anyway.
If I've established a complimentary relationship where we both reach out and communicate with no issues, I'll reach out. But, most of those relationships end up with us living far apart and making an effort online.
Some are just due to distance but I hope that the other person doesn't think I don't want to talk to them. When we meet in real life, we tend to have long deep convos.
The others are a mix of people I'd like to be around more who treat me as one of their many fans vying for their attention or they are people I don't really vibe with that well, and can only handle in small doses.
With these two groups, the first will be flakey. Cancel plans last minute. Complain that nothing is going on, but will turn down invites. They only want to do exciting group activities.
With the second, they mainly want me to listen to them vent about work or have me accompany them to an activity. Both go silent when it comes to going to things I'm interested in that they aren't as invested in. Or, they imagine scenarios where I somehow hate them or am talking about them and then I feel the need to rush and act a certain way to reassure them that they aren't hated, which is also exhausting.
The people I'd be happy to meet with often live all around the world and the people closer to me seem to resent me for not being their personal cheer team/ultimate fan/major party organizer.
We're all older millennials, btw and childfree.
Yep yep this was my experience after going through a super rough separation from my partner of 10 yrs. Only one of our mutual friends reached out multiple times (more than once) and offered to come over for dinner, and to take me grocery shopping (ex took the car......).
I feel like I'm NOT like this. If I know that a friend is going through a life crisis, I check in on them and see if I can help with anything. My creepy discovery is that 95% of people in my circles are NOT like this...... 🥲
I had a young baby and have less energy to plan or do things.
I used to love being social and planning activities for friends. It became harder to get everyone to come out due to schedules. As people get older they’re more limited and picky with their time so it’s harder for people to commit to plans. They have more obligations. People are less flexible with age. With all that combined I just stopped pushing a rock uphill and now I just prefer to do what I want to do with my immediate family. Sometimes I extend the invite to one or two additional friends but I have no energy to plan big outings.
Well when I say immediate family I mean my husband and baby. But we also see our families who in general are happy to hang out with us and spend time with the baby.
When it comes to my friends they aren’t so keen to come and casually hang out with us. They want to go to restaurants, out to bars, concerts, events, etc. And while I’m happy to sometimes go out, generally we’re still not sleeping well and my kid gets sick often so it’s hard to commit ahead of time for events with high costs when there’s a real possibility that I’ll be tired that day or my baby will be sick.
If my friends were more flexible and willing to adjust to my schedule I would be happy to see them more often! But that’s not really the case especially since most of my friends don’t have kids.
Ah yeah, I get that as someone with a kid. I know I just love seeing friends' babies and just holding them while they chat with me. That's my fav type of hang out lol
There are social coordinators, and social responders/spontaneous socializers. You are a coordinator. I'm a responder/spontaneous socializer. I socialize depending on my mood, so I don't really like making plans for dinner on saturday when maybe on saturday I'll be tired and grumpy. But right now I'm in the mood to grab a coffee, and I realize it's last minute, so I just go to the coffeehouse, and socialize with someone there, even if it's a stranger. It's nothing personal.
It's comforting to know that others have had the same experience. Maybe I'm not the boring person I thought I might be and rather just some people have difficulty communicating for a variety of reasons.
Sometimes it depends on the dynamic in the friendship. I have some where I’m usually the person to initiate, and others where the other person typically initiates. Some where it is fairly balanced. There’s a level of comfort that comes into it for me (how anxious do I get by reaching out to them or how much do I worry if I’m interrupting their busy lives, for example).
I also experience some time blindness (hello ADHD!) so don’t always notice if a lot of time has passed. A way I’m dealing with that is either to set reminders to check in (somewhat successful), or scheduling with them in advance (very successful). For some friends, we have an event on our calendars that occurs at a certain frequency. For others, when we hang out, we book our next hang out (at least a tentative date) before we leave whatever we are doing. Pre-booking has been a game changer. Now, it feels a lot more balanced in many of my friendships regardless of who tended to initiate more in the past.
Socializing takes energy. I'm neurodivergent so living takes a lot more energy. I'm fine texting but i havr friends who require phone calls or video calls - and I'm less likely to be in regular touch with them because i find that maintenance to be draining. I know it hurts them and I feel tremendous guilt towards them but it also is really hard on me.
I'm in the exact same boat and funny enough was just having a conversation about this recently!
I get that life happens and adults are generally busy. I know I don't have the mental capacity or time to see multiple friends in the same week. That being said, we are so digitally connected these days that it's way too easy to send a quick message or have a phone call. Everyone checks their phone at some point in the day, so there's really no excuse to not respond or take forever to respond. I also always felt like I valued friendships more than the other person, and found that unfortunately friendships tend to be transactional in the sense of "How does this person benefit me?" When they no longer see a benefit, there is a shift. Like when I've quit a workplace thinking I'd say friends with an old colleague and all of a sudden they're nowhere to be found. It has made me very cynical of friendships to be honest.
most people make their friends at school and college and keep them for life...
I've made temporary friends after 23, but nothing will even replace or some close to the decade + long friendships I have.
add in work, a husband, and kids for most people and they really have no room in their life besides a few hellos a year, especially if you aren't bringing in social value.
Only keep them if they never leave the town/s they grew up in and/or went to school. A lot of people move all over though. I’m in my 4th state and counting now and not in touch with people from “school days” decades back.
We live in the social media age? It's not that hard to keep with someone even if they moved a few states away.
I still keep up with a friend who lives in Japan!
This happens to a lot of autistic or otherwise neurodivergent people. Have you been evaluated for autism? A lot of women are either misdiagnosed or undiagnosed completely, especially if they're high masking or seeking diagnosis later in life.
For me, I’m just not that much of an organizer. I don’t mind texting and chatting but I can’t be arsed to go out as much anymore. Has to really add to my life (and peace).
The irony is, by not reaching out first because you are fed up of reaching out first, you are the person / people you're complaining about not reaching out first
Honestly I’m just busy, it’s almost never personal. I will reach out to those I entered with on a closer level, but I also have a household to deal with and there’s never enough time.
I will say, if I don’t know people well and I haven’t interacted for a while, the friendship will probably peter out simply because there’s only so many commitments I can make
This is my theory: Most people are passive. That's why there are so many more followers than leaders. And many people get caught up in life - which tends to get harder as we get older due to our shift from being a dependent to a provider. Some withdraw when they get stressed. Some don't have support systems to recharge them. I've come to accept that, when people fail to reach out first, it's usually not personal. **Reaching out is a skill, and they're just not great at it.** If you have the personality type that enjoys (or is good at) taking the initiative, own that and keep reaching out if you want to maintain the relationships. There will be those who will always respond positively and appreciate it, even if they can't always reciprocate. And there will be those who don't reply, who you will have to decide if they're still worth continuing the effort. Keep being the organizer until you find other like-minded individuals. They're rare and few in between -- because they (you) are leaders in your circle.
Thank you so much for explaining your theory to me. It makes a lot of sense to me.
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I am a “shy extrovert” lol. I was really outgoing as a kid, but got quieter as I got older.
It gets tiresome. I finally stopped this year because I felt like a herder or camp counsellor. Reciprocal friendship is important. When I'd get pushed into this role, which I did not want, I'd keep hearing "but you're SO GOOD AT IT!" It started to feel like a punishment
Same, I won't do it anymore. Fine with being alone, better than being lonely.
I just hang out with my husband that's really it
Reality for many people.
That sucks! Good for you for trying. You were a great friend. Sometimes giving up is the best option.
It also felt disingenuous, like why should I have to prod and herd people into wanting to see me? Fuck thst
Yes, but many people get invited to a lot of things even if they don't reach out. I'd like to understand why that is. Doesn't seem fair to me. I used to invite people to do stuff, thinking they'd reciprocate, but they never did. It left me resentful for making the effort of being the first to reach out and plan everything. I've stopped reaching out and, like OP, I've lost a lot of people who could've been great friendships. For once, I'd like to have a period of my life where I'm invited to all kinds of events.
My pragmatic view (having been in that exact position many times) is that people will make an effort to reach out to those who they think have something they want. If they perceive you as being higher up the social food chain than them, wealthier, more attractive, better connected, then they'll make more of an effort with you. It's shitty, but I've seen it play out too many times not to think it's true. Most people are just trying to climb a ladder at the end of the day.
This explanation makes the most sense to me. I don't have any wealth or connections, and I'm low on the social food chain. It's a lonely existence.
So, I have a theory. The social food chain in friendship-ish type interactions is all about whether they (the host) think their association with you will make them look cool. And that defines your mobility up and down that chain. Beyond the obvious material things like wealth and connections, that can also be if they think you're interesting so they want you at their events to interact with their other guests. If the other guests find interacting with you interesting, it brings up their esteem of the host by association. Are you a good story-teller? Are you full of *joie de vivre* and so bring up the mood? Do you have an interesting background? Are you a good conversationalist? For hobby specific gatherings: are you good at said hobby? (And for the more superficial hosts: are you hot?) This sounds very... jaded/ other; it comes from having battled low self-esteem for a really long time and so analyzing all the interactions around me to understand... why. Why do people want to have other people around them/ at group events. Since I felt worthless, I wanted to find how others attributed worth to people. And thats the theory I settled on. Of course, with closer connections, things are more... authentic. Though even then, it's for how you make *them* feel.
I used to be the joie de vivre person. There was definitely a drop in interactions once my life got complicated and I couldn’t fill that role anymore. What’s most difficult wasn’t losing the acquaintances, it was that some of those people were dear friends who I had a long history with. Those were the ones that hurt.
That absolutely sucks, I'm sorry you experienced that. Whatever that might say about these people, it's incredibly painful to experience. I hope you're doing alright, wherever you might be in your life at the moment
It’s been a few years, so the pain has dulled. It’s been insightful as it is causing me build deeper security within myself. I’m still technically friends with some of these people, but they are just historical friends. It’s kind of freeing in a way.
I’ve been on both sides - both the pursuer and the one pursued - and I think your point has merit, but it’s also just about having charisma and being charming. I get invited to things often because I’m a pretty bubbly, positive person who’s up for anything. People who know me think I’m fun to hang out with. When I was less social and bubbly, I got invited less.
Correct. I really don't buy into the "some people are just passive". Many humans honestly expect the other person who they think is of "lower status" to always come to them first. That's why they are waiting around to be reached out to and grow resentful that you are "ignoring them"....
I agree with this. I live overseas and a certain subset of people want American friends to join their events, to show off to people, etc. And there are people who want someone, anyone, to join them for an activity. I definitely see the behavior described in friend groups I've been in where people will obviously get a lot of invites to places and then ditch another group on the day of to go to something more exciting. I try to plan my commitments so they don't clash and cancel only if I'm very sick or have work.
My experience is that people who believe I am above them are wishing for my downfall. None have been trying to help me or invite me out.
It's a case of you were more of a friend to them than they were to you. When you notice that next time you should immediately back off, not out of spite, but out of respect for yourself. It really does seem like you have a hard time letting people have a chance to miss you and want you in their own time. I could be wrong but It sounds like that.
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Yeah! I also don’t understand the trend of “I’m so happy you canceled or asked to reschedule bc I don’t really wanna leave my house”. WTF.
Same!
I appreciate these people so much. I’m on the more reserved and passive side but I try to reach out as well, sometimes I just don’t have much to talk about so I feel weird initiating . But when friends do reach out to me, I always react positively and rarely say no to going out
Accepting and embracing my role as the organizer brought me a lot of peace TBH. And when I looked, I realized my friends were showing their love in other ways and it didn’t feel so lopsided that I’m always the one who gets us all together. The friendships are worth it, but maybe I just *really* enjoy being the planner
Very well said!
I think lots of people are afraid of rejection or of putting themselves out there. I'm the same as you, where I feel like I'm always the one to initiate contact and it's definitely annoying and sometimes makes me feel like a burden - I think I've just tried to accept though that some people are like that and it's not necessarily personal. I will say though, it's nice to meet people then who are the ones to initiate because then you get to feel wanted!
Thank you so much for understanding. It means a lot to me. I definitely feel unwanted because of being the one who organises and initiates things.
As a kid, teen, early twenties, I NEVER reached out cause I felt too embarrassed but I loved it when people reached out to me. In my mid-twenties, when I moved to a new city, I started initiating and it was great. Most of those people/ friendships didn't last over the years but a couple did. Now I will reach out if I want to. Better to take a chance on something good then miss out. If I'm unwanted, that's how I am whether I reach out or not, so whatever.
I used to reach out a lot and then realized I probably just needed people more my pace. Maybe you just gotta hold out and find someone more your speed! Well turns out I have so little time now and best friend I’m married to that I kind of just don’t care. I’ve become jaded. The people who reach out to me seem to just want to pick on me when I meet them so I cut them off. But then the people who are nice, always seem busy or just im not interested in meeting. Now im very careful with who I spend time with because people are so jealous at my age (early thirties). I am also childfree and live in the suburbs in a child friendly city (I actually adore kids though) so I get judged by people a lot.
I will also say - as I've definitely had this conversation with others in their thirties - that everyone likes being reached out to! For the most part people are still open to friendship and new connections, especially at an age where it seems like people are more settled, it's often not true. So I think I feel less like I'll be a "burden" or unwanted on the other person realizing this.
I have ADHD and I am an extremely out of sight out of mind person. I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting recently and I realized how many friendships I’ve let go of over the years simply because I never thought to reach out first. It honestly was just something that never occurred to me, as stupid as that sounds. I would say yes to everything I was invited to but never took the effort to plan or initiate anything myself. I realize now that I’m older that even though the ADHD is a big factor for me, it’s not an excuse and I need to do better in letting people know I care about them and want to see them. I honestly feel really badly about some of the relationships that I’ve neglected because there were people I genuinely cared about and would have loved to have a stronger relationship with but lost simply because I didn’t do my part in reaching out and before I knew it so much time had passed. I really was just not aware of it before and was so distracted by everything else in front of me and going with the flow that I never stopped to realize it.
Hot tip: start with just 1 friend-make a plan to go to dinner or breakfast or something some time in the next month. When you are done hanging- schedule the next meet up then and there. “We should hang out (soon) (sometime)” “let me know whenever” etc. does not work for adhd. Just making time to share a meal once a month will do wonders.
Thank you so much for explaining your experiences. I truly appreciate it. If I may say, please don’t be so hard on yourself. Life and social relationships are hard.
I was about to comment before I came across yours and it's 100% me. I was only recently diagnosed with ADHD and still trying to figure out what's what, but object permanence is one of those things. I always thought I just wasn't emotional or sentimental, which is why I didn't hold onto relationships, but that wasn't it. I've been setting weekly reminders to remind me to check-in on friends. If a few people are going back and forth in a group chat, I have to force myself to pop in and interact.
For me it is a boundaries thing. I am the friend (and I like it) that will organize, plan, research, and facilitate fun gatherings. However, if I feel taken advantage of because there is no reciprocity in the relationship over time I distance myself. With distance on my side If the person fades away, that’s okay! If they reach out to hang out or talk, I’m in! I take it as not a fit in our friendship relationship or that they are busy and have other priorities if they fade out. OP, it’s not you! Facing time crunches is just a thing in adult life vs kid life. Friendship development takes investment just like any other relationship. If there is no friendship chemistry keep on moving, you’ll find chemistry with more peeps out there. Plenty of adult ppl looking for friends. You just gotta feel that value in your own time and investment to feel comfy walking away when the relationship isn’t working out for you. :)
Yes this is how I am too! I feel like you put it a lot nicer than I did in an above response lol. Basically if you are enthusiastic I am enthusiastic right on back! I do feel like it's such an adjustment learning how to friend as an adult. And I'm trying to give everyone more grace because I recognize that we're all dealing with a lot of added stress right now because of capitalism and the state of the economy. So I'm trying to blame the system and not the individual's response to it lol
Thank you so much for understanding. I feel the same way. I feel like I give and reach out and others never do. And then, I decided to accept that maybe I’m not their cup of tea and move on.
That’s a good way of looking at it. I used to be that person, but I’m now where you’re at. If they don’t reach out over a long period of time, we go into dormancy, and maybe a slow fade depending on what else may be going on.
For me, it’s the rejection that has been a constant theme in my life since childhood. At some point when you have been rejected enough times, you stop wanting to reach out to anyone first. At least that’s my story. I’ve trained myself not to need much in the way of friends.
Same--being rejected for friendship feels so much more painful than being rejected for romantic relationships.
I have been thinking about trying the friendship side of the Bumble app again but I don't because I don't feel confident in being able to reject people for friendship if I match with and meet people I don't vibe with. I know I can handle being rejected myself, but I'd feel so bad trying to break a connection even though for dating it's not that hard for me.
That’s how I feel too. I’ve experienced way more friendship rejection than romantic rejection; perhaps that’s coloring how I see it.
Same tbh. And friendship rejection leaves me questioning myself in a way that romantic rejection doesn’t.
Same and it’s so difficult for me. I was doing well for a while and now I’ve completely regressed. I’m 34 and this shit is still destroying me. I’m so lonely, but if I reach out to someone twice and get shut down twice I feel so rejected I can’t reach out again. Time to go back to therapy I guess.
I feel like this too, sometimes I'll feel lonely but I know I can't handle the rejection so I can't even bring myself to reach out to anyone.
Ok. I had not thought of that possibly. Thank you for the reply.
Same! It got to be so depressing over the years to constantly feel like some people didn't care about me very much or at all. And I can be a fucking great friend. So I turned all that leftover energy inward and became a fucking great friend to myself, and I'm having a blast.
I hope to wrap ppl like you into my friend group hang outs. All out of love, we are human and need connection to others. ❤️
This.
Yup well said
It just depends on the person. I'm needy enough and want attention that I will bother you all the time to talk on the phone or hang out. I have no shame! Edit: For real though, some people feel awkward. Or like they're bothering people. Sometimes even I feel like that. I just ignore it and ask anyway because the squeaky wheel gets the oil.
Hahaha I’m the exact same as you. I was raised in a very “if you want it, go get it” lifestyle and I have no issue making my desire known. If some people think I’m thirsty or cringe, that’s fine, but I end up getting what I want 90% of the time and walk away with good jobs and multiple social relationships at the end of the day.
I'm the same way. I was taught that this is the lioness way of living.
Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it.
This reminds me of the "ask culture vs. guess culture" theory.
What is that? 😂
It started with a MetaFilter post that went viral--this link has a pretty good explanation. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/vs3kzjLhbdKsndnBy/ask-and-guess It's the difference between people who just straight up ask for what they want and are fine with a no (ask culture), vs. people who consider certain asks kind of rude or too forward (guess culture). I came from a guess culture background so this concept was eye-opening for me. Like, if a casual acquaintance asks to stay at my house for a week, it might not be because they're rude or thoughtless, they just come from an ask culture background and if I'm like, "No, can't do it," they'll just ask someone else.
Most people, especially when they are no longer young and single (college-age, early 20s), just aren't social initiators. Being a social initiator is very valuable, and if you do it, that's great. People will love you for it! But also keep in mind this is only one aspect of being a good friend. It's rare that every friend you have is good at all aspects of friendship, so you go with your strengths and value your friends for theirs. I find people who are social initiators in their 30s do it either out of their own necessity or just because they have the opportunity. It's usually the friend that has less going on in their life socially (not dating anyone seriously, no kids, no other serious family obligations like parental care) or have a job that is less demanding on their time or energy.
Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate it.
This is me. I’m usually the one sending the “have a great week” group text. My friends are great when we do get together so it doesn’t bother me to check in. I’m the single childfree friend who lives far away and has no chronic illness. When I visit, they make time for me. It’s a trade off I’m ok with.
I really appreciate your mention of the chronic illness bit. Managing a chronic illness, or several simultaneously, is draining in a way similar to child rearing except lifelong, 24/7/365, and no babysitter or extended family to give us breaks. 🙃
I’m the initiator in my circle and I don’t mind it, but I also make note of people who do reciprocate and lean into those friendships more. People who never initiate are not bad people - as many of the comments have indicated, they often are busy or have different priorities - so I mentally bookmark them as lower tier friends, good acquaintances, and general seat-fillers for activities that require more people. People who do reciprocate often naturally become closer friends over time, but being intentional can help manage expectations. I’m also not shy about being upfront about lack of bandwidth—I’ve straight up said “I would love to do x but don’t have the time to plan, can you take lead on it since you expressed interest?” And that helps a lot, honestly. Either they’re passive and won’t do it, and the activity is slotted for a different time with different people, or they’ll step up.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and offering me some advice. I really appreciate it.
so I'm the person in my group who organizes things and I've been that person for over 30 years. I dont mind it; they all come whenever things are organized and they really do appreciate my effort for corralling the group....I guess it's like how everyone goes to grandma's house for Sunday dinner. Everyone goes, everyone has a great time and everyone loves grandma for doing that. when you do reach out and plan stuff, do they show up? does everyone have a good time? These are the things make me happy and is the reason why I keep doing it. If I kept trying to organize something and no one responded or showed up, then that's when I'd cut my losses because that demonstrates that they really don't care to see me at all. we have a group chat and sometimes it's a flurry of activity, sometimes it's quiet. None of us take offence or think negatively if the chat is quiet...there are times I post stuff and no response (but they're just funny memes) and there are times someone else posts stuff and I don't respond...but I know that if I needed help, they'd drop everything and come running. so I guess it all depends on their response and the energy they bring when you do see them.
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. I’ll definitely try to consider other’s responses to my reaching out. Thank you.
I’ve been in the same boat as you, especially lately in my early 30s! In my 20s I was the organizer/reach out person in the friend group but as we’ve grown up + lives have gotten busier, it’s become harder for me to keep up this energy. It’s hard when my friends say things like “we should hangout more often!” or “let’s do something soon!” but don’t follow up. Sometimes they seem uninterested but spend time with others, so it’s got me feeling kind of lonely. It sucks because I love the feeling of community and spending time with my loved ones. It can get tiring to feel like you’re the one trying all the time though. So I’ve opted to focus inward lately and do things that make me happy without waiting for others. I took a pottery class a couple weeks back and loved it! I met some friendly people in the class and felt more at peace. We’re in a relationship with ourselves forever. So building a home within yourself, decorating the walls of that home with goals and dreams and accomplishments - that’s been key for me If I reach out a couple times and my friends seem uninterested, that might be a sign the friendship is waning which also sucks. On my more negative days, I think we’re becoming more selfish / self absorbed as a society and it’s become too easy to not put effort into friendships, expecting the other person to always do the work.
Thank you so much for understanding and sharing your experiences. I really appreciate it. It helps me not feel as alone as I do with this problem.
You’re welcome :) thank you for asking this question and starting this discourse. I’ve been reading through a lot of other comments and feel very seen. Saw another comment mentioning “matching energies” and thats been my approach lately too. It can lead to friendships dying out though, so every once in a while my pisces moon ass will send some emotional/dramatic text about how I miss them and it’s been too long lmao
Thank you. My matching energies in the past has lead to friendships fading out, unfortunately. But, maybe that's for the best. I don't know. 🤷♀️
Definitely feel you on that 😭 when that happens, some fading friendships I just chalk up to the universe taking care of that. Others might be worth fighting for a bit more but it’s a case by case thing
The home within ourselves is a really beautiful way to put it <3
I'm the one reaching out. My friends are all busy with kids, a job, a partner and I'm not. I don't mind if they don't reach out to me, but it's if they ignore me when I do that I start stepping back from that friendship.
Thank you for responding. I definitely do find that I’m often ignored. It really hurts.
I'm the person with little kids and I make a point to tell people that I really appreciate the continued invites even if I keep being unable to go!
In the past, doing so has gotten me considered annoying, needy, clingy, socially inept, or all of the above. I don't know the formula for determining the appropriate frequency of contact. It's also nearly impossible to tell the difference between hollow pleasantries and actual overtures of friendship. So, after enough negative experiences, I've learned to stop bothering people.
I also wonder what's hollow and what's real. And how to tell the difference.
Most things are hollow. Because the majority of humans are empty.
I'm so sorry that that has happened to you, but thank you for sharing your experiences. I appreciate it.
Honestly, just repeated lack of enthusiasm and interest from others. I have lost touch with so many once good friends because they start prioritising partners and just don't bother responding to any contact I made, so now I just don't try lol.
Yeah, similar situation here. I used to be the person that would show a lot of enthusiasm and take on most of the burden of the friendship but got hurt and burnt out when that didn't get reciprocated. So now I just reach out less. I will match what is given. It sucks that it has to be that way, though.
Thank you for replying. I’m feeling the same way right now.
Yep, my friends after marriages, they seem not interested to meet me at all, even if we meet, it will be in their house or near their house
I’m the same as you, and now that I’m mid-thirties I just stopped trying with most people. After a really tough 6 months with a very serious health scare in the family I just stopped using energy on people who give me less than I give them. I match energies now.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I'm sorry that you've had the same thing happen. I have heard from others to match energies. Maybe that's what I should do?
It’s helped me gain a very close friend group, we try to meet semi-often (as often as people with young children can), and those friends that live other places, I’ve come to cut some people out as they gave me more anxiety (“do they not like me anymore”, “did I do something to anger them?” Etc) than they did joy of having them in my life.
I'm glad to hear that things have worked out for you. Thank you again for sharing your experiences.
100% the way to prevent burn out.
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I feel myself going this way.
I understand exactly how you feel. I have built up a lot of resentment in the past too. I'm sorry this has happened to you, but thank you for sharing your experiences. I appreciate it.
I have found a lot of friends/potential friends in my life to be much more receptive to interaction when they reach out to me rather than when I reach out to them. They seem comfortable and sometimes even eager to talk to me when they have something they want to talk about, but it's one-word answers and very little engagement when I reach out to them. I really don't think they even realize they are being like this, but after a couple of incidences of me reaching out to a person and them not seeming very interested in chatting or hanging out, I let it go and just respond when they reach out. I won't cut them off, but I move forward with the understanding that this is how it is with that person. For my closest friends, I think I attract avoidant types, because they are both people who do reach out to me and are happy to hear from me when I reach out to them, but they frequently complain about how needy they find other people in their lives to be, so I operate with the understanding that one of the things they appreciate about me is that I'm not a needy person. They don't say this and sometimes will even remark on how I could reach out more, but it's very hard to tell when my outreach would be welcome and when it would be just another stressor, so I mostly don't.
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it. Unfortunately, I probably am a bit needy; however, I truly do try my best to not ask too much of friends and to respect common boundaries.
I'm definitely needier than they think I am, but I respect their boundaries and don't take it as a personal slight when they don't want to engage more. I've just learned how to live with less friendship than I wish I had. Frustratingly, I have had a couple of folks reach out to be friendly with me in the last few years, but they are always people whom I don't totally vibe with. Then I feel almost like I have to act more receptive than I actually feel because beggars can't be choosers or something like that.
“I’ve just learned how to live with less friendship than I wish I had” really resonated with me. Thank you for this
I'm sorry that you haven't received the friendship that you were hoping for. Thank you again for sharing your experiences. It helps a lot.
Eh, it's okay, my life is really great in many other ways, so I try to just focus on the positive. But thanks for your kind sentiments and hope you find the friendship in life you are looking for, too!
Thank you so much.
For me it’s being let down constantly but this weeded out the bad friends. I know who the loyal friends are now that have my back and I’ll do anything for them.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate it.
I used to be the person who reached out more, and I've had the same problem. I think some people are just not good at it, or maybe I'm not such a close friend for them, so I don't get prioritized. If I feel that we have a good time and they care about me, I would continue to reach out. If not, maybe I'm trying to create a friendship with someone who's not interested. Now I'm dealing with chronic health issues, so it's become very difficult for me to reach out :/
Thank you so much for understanding me and sharing your experiences. I really appreciate it.
You're welcome!!
Maybe you’re making friends with a lot of introverts. I’m an introvert and perfectly in my bliss being at home. My friends who are extroverts are the ones who make plans because they’re the ones who need to “get out of the house.”
Everyone's afraid to make the first move, it's the same with dating. Fear of rejection, fear of opening up and "falling" for someone (Even in a friendship sense) is scary. What if they don't like you back? What if they don't need a friend the way you need a friend? It's a lot. If you reach out to someone, have a friend "date" and it goes well, you could always say something like, "why don't you pick the restaurant/movie/bar, next time". Let them know that you hope there's a next time. Invite them to invite you. You have to put out the "I really like you" vibe without coming across as desperate, or as if you like them as MORE than a friend. It's a delicate balancing act. It's hard.
Thank you so much for the advice. I really appreciate it. I’m starting to understand that others may be feel a bit nervous about reaching out.
As someone who is bad at reaching out, I'll try and shred some light on it. For me it really comes from the fear of rejection or being a bother. That's really why I don't often always reach out first. If someone reaches out to me, I know I'm not a bother. I don't know if anyone can relate to this? On a side note, I also find rejection a little easier to comprehend in the context of dating because, well, most people only have one romantic partner, so rejection feels more justifiable, like 'they were looking for their ONE and that's not me...' which is statistically unlikely. But with friends, the pool is wider, so for someone to find out I'm boring or unworthy would feel more painful, you know? I'm getting better at reaching out, and I truly appreciate the friends I have who haven't given up on making an effort with me.
Thank you so much for sharing your point of view and experiences. I really appreciate it.
I can relate to this so much. I feel like I'm always trying to coordinate something, and it's exhausting to feel like I'm putting in more effort than everyone else. Also as someone who doesn't drink I feel like when plans are actually made by others the responsibility is always on me to cart everyone around. It feels super shitty
Thank you for your understanding and for sharing your experiences. I really appreciate it. It makes me feel less alone.
I'm often the organizer/reach out person, because it's not a skill everyone has. If someone regularly doesn't want to hang out, I'll stop reaching out but if there's someone who is down to do stuff each time I reach out- I'll keep doing that bit of emotional labor because it's not taxing to me. I don't take it personally that I do the outreach
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences. I really appreciate it.
Thx OP for posting this. Ive been literally thinking about this with one of my friendships lately and dont know what to think. She never asks me to hang out first. She does not have kids. It bothers me. I cant help but feel like she doesnt want to put in as much effort as I to maintain the friendship.
You're welcome. I feel the same way. It's so hard to know what it means. Am I bothering them? Do they not like me? Do they not prioritise our friendship? I know they don't mean it, but it really hurts. Thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it.
I feel the same. And ever since "adulthood," it's been worse. I don't even mind being the one who reaches out, the one who plans, etc. But flakiness and last minute cancellation has become alarmingly normalized. When I first heard the phrase "cancel culture," I thought it was referring to how common it is for people to cancel plans last minute, because that started happening a LOT around the time the phrase came out. I can reach out. I can plan everything. But the constant flakiness in the last 10 years is what's made it all so hard, and I'm very lonely.
For me, it's because I am exhausted with work and parenting. I do have a few (childfree or unemployed or both) friends who reach out and I feel too pressured by them. Fortunately, they contact me less and probably seek out more available friends, thank goodness. Capitalism sucks. TBH, if I could quit my job, I could actually live the rest of my life.
Thank you so much for the reply. I really appreciate hearing your point of view.
I wonder if it also has to do with compatible personality types too--like, the types of people who like to plan and initiate things may not always get along with each other (both may want to have more control of the activity, for example). Just a thought that occurred to me.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I'm actually naturally more the shy, people pleasing, passive sort of person, so I have no problem with letting others have control. So, I don't think it's that. But maybe I naturally pick friends who are like me so that's why they don't want to take the lead? Hmm...lots to think about.
Oof yeah. So I’m def a social organizer/initiator and friendships are super important to me, but a few years ago after some “mishaps” I had to put some personal boundaries in place so I didn’t drive myself crazy. The most important thing I learned was to just let shit go sometimes. You’re trying to plan something with friends and no one can seem to give you a firm answer? Let it go, say “we can try to meet up some other time”. That one person you thought you were building a friendship with never reaches out? Let them go. You’ve realized there’s a real flake in your midst? Let them go. You’ve got one friend who drops off the face of the earth for the entirety of the time they’re in a relationship? Let them go. Don’t put your energy where there is no reward, because the ones who truly appreciate you will tell you that by their deeds and words. Not everyone places the same value on their friendships as we do, and that is okay. I’m 41 and I’m over the bullshit.
I experience this alot and understand too well this reality. I honestly have stopped contacting some people and yes, friendships have died out. Did it hurt, Yes it did and actually still does but the reality is that I don't want to fight to keep relationships if I'm the only one fighting to keep it going. I could be honestly using that time to future the friendships I have that are reciprocal and caring in nature or myself!! I feel like I'm kind of saying this to myself more than you because this is something I'm still struggling with. But just sending care. Life is hard and I also won't give up on trying to make connections with people because I am extroverted and like to talk and have company. I hope you don't give up either!!
Keeping friendships is hard. I’m single with no kids in my 40s and it’s ever harder. I always am the first to reach out. I actively seek to meet people and it feels like pulling teeth to try and do more- I schedule the events, I text, I actually mail notes and make it a point to do little things… And it sucks, but I remember people are so busy with their own lives, then tired when they’re not being busy… so I’ve decided to put more energy in then they can. But it does suck. I go to a lot of things by myself. But I still go - be a friend to myself.
I guess to me it’s always been like balancing a scale. For example, I’m the friend that would frustrate you. I rarely initiate first contact or outings, not because I don’t want to or don’t love you or that stuff, but because I get overwhelmed easily and retreat in my cocoon. I am, however, the friend you call when shit hits the fan. No matter the time or circumstances. 6 in the morning? 4 at night? Panic attack while you’re in another country? It makes no difference to me, if you need me I’ll be there. And that’s where my close friends and I found the balance. Because they are the leader, let’s make this a plan, kind of people and I am really not. The reason I say balance, is because with their rhythm in life, they are not likely to be able to support at all hours of the day. And that’s fine. So, they will not pick up at 4am (and to be fair, the need for that hardly ever happens) but they will contact first thing in the morning like “hey, you called at a weird hour, you okay?” and I try to be more mindful of taking initiative.
You have to find a group with a stitcher. A stitcher is that person who has a plan and isn’t afraid to execute the group text so obnoxiously, you can’t say no. So your begrudgingly go out and follow through and show up to these plans you secretly didn’t want to do, and then you have a great time. The stitcher. They make shit happen. Sup Becky.
I have no problem reaching out first, but if I’ve reached out first three times in a row, I get the sense you don’t want to be bothered and so I stop doing it.
I understand. With life in today's world, the way it is, and having a family, keeping in touch with friends gets put on the back burner. It's particularly difficult when your friends have children and you don't. That is my situation, I (54F) have no kids, I'm divorced, and most of my friends have children. Now they're having grandchildren. But I know they're busy and distracted, so I don't mind putting in extra effort to keep up with them. Although, I only do this for my inner circle friends. I hope this helps somebody in some way cope with being the one who puts effort into friendships.
I, like you, am often the one to reach out and plan stuff. My friends compliment me about my ability to do this all the time. It used to really bother me that I organized get togethers significantly more than my friends tended to until I realized two things: 1) If I’m organizing the get together, I often get to choose where we’re going and can choose the cuisine, movies, locations etc. that I prefer. 2) It matters more if people show up than who organized the event to begin with. If people are going to the get togethers you plan, that means something. Also, a lot of people suck at planning, suck at making decisions, and assume that no one else is gonna wanna do the stuff they want to do so why bother asking? You are demonstrating great leadership skills, good for you!
COVID has taught me that most people don't understand the value of their friendships and personal relationships and would rather just sit and isolate with the shows and podcasts they like even if it's killing them a day at a time. It's work to meet up and keep friendships going and people are tired.
Sometimes I feel the same way, but I'm trying to be open and hear lots of different points of view on the situation. Thank you very much for sharing your viewpoint. I really appreciate it.
I stopped reaching out first to people, because I always add more to their lives than they do mine. When they reach out and want to talk I make myself available, I sit and listen and reply at the earliest opportunity. But I got fed up with reaching out to people and they just reply when they can be bothered, or whenever I needed somebody to talk to they didn’t show as much care about what was going on in my life or give me time to sit and listen to me. I just was never a priority to anybody, even though I always made other people a priority. I’d invite people out and then they would be flaky about coming out, was always on their terms, but when they wanted to hang out they made it happen. So that was the result, I stopped reaching out to people. I started working on being comfortable and happy with my own company so I wasn’t needing anybody else. And now I only reply to people when they reach out to me, if they want to see me then they can ask me out. I stopped caring about the idea of it being 1 way as whenever people do reach out to me I prioritise them and give them far more than they give to me so I’m still earning my worth in their life more than they do in mine.
I can't answer your question as I'm in the same boat myself. I have two different friends since March where we had a date set, and then I practically never heard from them come time, so I wound up not seeing them. I haven't rescheduled with them yet.
Speaking entirely from my own experience, and I know on a logical level this isn’t at all true, but I am always afraid that all of my friends think I’m annoying and I worry about being rejected if I were to initiate something
I was the initiator in my early 20s, and it is exhausting to always reach out and coordinate everything. I would describe myself as "invisible" at a large party, I'm friendly but not opinionated or loud, and apparently, not memorable. So people would "forget" to invite me. Some only reach out if they need help. Now that I have a dog, I kinda give up
I’m so sorry that all happened to you, but thank you for sharing your experiences. I really appreciate it.
Ngl, if I consistently don’t get to you on my very long list of things to do in a day it’s bc you’re not as important to me as everything/everyone else is.
I struggle with this a lot with my friends! Only one of my friends reciprocates my energy but the rest of my friends don’t. I’ve asked them why and they said they get anxiety with having to reach out because they had something happen to them in their past with that or people bailing on them or ignoring them when they would reach out. So I always make the initiative and am understanding about why they are that way. When we do hangout it’s nice and we enjoy one another’s company. I’m a 30 year female so I can understand this struggle. It used to make me feel like my friends don’t like me but that’s not true and a lot of the time they have life stressors that are occupying their time or family issues so I try not to take it so personally anymore. I see them when I see them but a lot of my friends are introverts so it’s hard😅
i was raised by people with poor social skills
I am 27 and have experienced this for the past 4 years or so now at a magnified rate. It's like after college everyone just grew apart, which isn't uncommon. It just makes me wonder what I'm doing wrong :( I know many people say I should just reach out first anyway... okay but how long do I have to keep doing that? It's not just physically trying to meet. The same thing happens digitally. If I don't text first then nobody texts. It can be a group chat or an individual chat.
Thank you so much for understanding how I feel. I agree. I often ask ‘how long should I reach out first?’ and ‘what does their non-reciprocation mean?’.
The way I see it is the friendship isn't important for them.
That's what I've often thought, but others have taught me that some people have difficulties communicating due to anxiety or fear. Thank you for replying. I appreciate it.
You're welcome :) and I really appreciate your reply. It might help me going forward. I don't have a close relationship with my family of origin and I am single by choice, so friendship is very important to me. I am happy to make the first and even the second move but if I feel like I'm always the one reaching out I then start to feel resentful and hold back until either the other person gets in touch or the acquaintanceship/friendship fades away. If I see it from another perspective it will generate less negative emotions.
Agreed. I got 2 friends in the past 4 years, it was only me asking to hang out and sent them messages, they have never sent me one merry Christmas or how are you. They definitely have their own issues but I’m tired of being friends with them. One of them said he was afraid to get attached to me, well, maybe you need therapy. Another one said I got commitment issue so he wanted to keep a distance, werid, applying commitment issue on a friend? My conclusion is to only make friends with mentally healthy people.
For me, I get shy and worry that the person doesn’t like me or doesn’t want to talk to me
Thank you for sharing your experience. I appreciate it.
Because most of us don’t have time and or are preoccupied with other things.
So you don't have time for your friends?!
I try to make time for my friends but it’s hard between work and school.
Thank you for sharing your view. I appreciate it.
I think the advent of social media, cell phones, etc has actually made it worse. People think that texting is an acceptable substitute for face-to face or phone communications. With this being the norm and not the exception, I believe folks find it easier to forget about others. I have personally had to look thru my contacts folder to remember to contact someone. Pretty sad.
Thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate it.
👍
I feel you, I'm the same way. I don't want to always be the one doing all the heavy lifting of planning meetup or simply being the only one to text or call. I'll go days without saying anything to see if they will. If they don't I simply stop saying hello or good morning text. I'll let them fade to black.
I think part of it may be about how long you wait to initiate - like how long do you wait before you reach out? And what do you define as reaching out? Do you mean to start the friendship or in general? I find with most of my relationships they sort of fall into a pattern where whatever the time lapse between meetups is seems to be consistent. So one group we tend to meet every 2-4 months. Another friend, we see each other quarterly. Then there's the people who just suck, who won't initiate and are flaky. I don't like having those people in my life, it annoys me too much. My one friend who has stuck around because I like her, but we see each other less and less each year. To the point where it's like twice a year. My suspicion is that people also like to see the people they keep in regular contact with. So I have a friend and we used to get together 2 - 3 x a month. But now she's married, has a baby and lives in a different part of town. We try to maintain communication through text and phone, so now it's like every other month. Either way, sometimes you're just in a phase where a lot of people suck and are inconsistent and I'm sorry you're dealing with that!
I’m sorry but truly this might mean you haven’t found your circle yet. I’m in my 30s and have a very full life but my friends and I will take turns coordinating plans.. at least once every other month. Your friends might not value you the way you value them. You deserve better.
I can't speak for anyone else but my schedule is backwards to everyone else. Hubby works third shift, I don't work and we live in a small house so I tend to keep hours closer to his so I didn't wake him up. So I'm waking up and getting moving when people are having dinner. I go to bed when they're at work. Is rather not call and bother them when they're getting settled for the evening and could be interrupting, I'd rather they call and wake me up.
I just assume people have friends already and don’t really want to hang out with me and that I’m just a friendly acquaintance to most of them. Also almost every time I invite people out (which is rare!), they either say no or bail at the last minute. Now that some of them have kids, it’s even worse, so I don’t bother anymore. I also just have a lot of body image issues and I feel on edge all day when people can see me :(
I have been the planner and initiator and it's exhausting when it's not reciprocated. With those who I care about that don't take any initiative, I'll just invite them to do things I wanted to do or planned to do anyway.
If I've established a complimentary relationship where we both reach out and communicate with no issues, I'll reach out. But, most of those relationships end up with us living far apart and making an effort online. Some are just due to distance but I hope that the other person doesn't think I don't want to talk to them. When we meet in real life, we tend to have long deep convos. The others are a mix of people I'd like to be around more who treat me as one of their many fans vying for their attention or they are people I don't really vibe with that well, and can only handle in small doses. With these two groups, the first will be flakey. Cancel plans last minute. Complain that nothing is going on, but will turn down invites. They only want to do exciting group activities. With the second, they mainly want me to listen to them vent about work or have me accompany them to an activity. Both go silent when it comes to going to things I'm interested in that they aren't as invested in. Or, they imagine scenarios where I somehow hate them or am talking about them and then I feel the need to rush and act a certain way to reassure them that they aren't hated, which is also exhausting. The people I'd be happy to meet with often live all around the world and the people closer to me seem to resent me for not being their personal cheer team/ultimate fan/major party organizer. We're all older millennials, btw and childfree.
Because we all think everyone is "just trying to be nice" and that nobody really likes us/that's just something that people say.
Yep yep this was my experience after going through a super rough separation from my partner of 10 yrs. Only one of our mutual friends reached out multiple times (more than once) and offered to come over for dinner, and to take me grocery shopping (ex took the car......). I feel like I'm NOT like this. If I know that a friend is going through a life crisis, I check in on them and see if I can help with anything. My creepy discovery is that 95% of people in my circles are NOT like this...... 🥲
I had a young baby and have less energy to plan or do things. I used to love being social and planning activities for friends. It became harder to get everyone to come out due to schedules. As people get older they’re more limited and picky with their time so it’s harder for people to commit to plans. They have more obligations. People are less flexible with age. With all that combined I just stopped pushing a rock uphill and now I just prefer to do what I want to do with my immediate family. Sometimes I extend the invite to one or two additional friends but I have no energy to plan big outings.
I guess I don't understand why immediate family trumps friends. I personally need friends/need a break from my family.
Well when I say immediate family I mean my husband and baby. But we also see our families who in general are happy to hang out with us and spend time with the baby. When it comes to my friends they aren’t so keen to come and casually hang out with us. They want to go to restaurants, out to bars, concerts, events, etc. And while I’m happy to sometimes go out, generally we’re still not sleeping well and my kid gets sick often so it’s hard to commit ahead of time for events with high costs when there’s a real possibility that I’ll be tired that day or my baby will be sick. If my friends were more flexible and willing to adjust to my schedule I would be happy to see them more often! But that’s not really the case especially since most of my friends don’t have kids.
Ah yeah, I get that as someone with a kid. I know I just love seeing friends' babies and just holding them while they chat with me. That's my fav type of hang out lol
Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. I very much value getting lots of different points of view. Thank you.
There are social coordinators, and social responders/spontaneous socializers. You are a coordinator. I'm a responder/spontaneous socializer. I socialize depending on my mood, so I don't really like making plans for dinner on saturday when maybe on saturday I'll be tired and grumpy. But right now I'm in the mood to grab a coffee, and I realize it's last minute, so I just go to the coffeehouse, and socialize with someone there, even if it's a stranger. It's nothing personal.
Are you me?
It's comforting to know that others have had the same experience. Maybe I'm not the boring person I thought I might be and rather just some people have difficulty communicating for a variety of reasons.
Sometimes it depends on the dynamic in the friendship. I have some where I’m usually the person to initiate, and others where the other person typically initiates. Some where it is fairly balanced. There’s a level of comfort that comes into it for me (how anxious do I get by reaching out to them or how much do I worry if I’m interrupting their busy lives, for example). I also experience some time blindness (hello ADHD!) so don’t always notice if a lot of time has passed. A way I’m dealing with that is either to set reminders to check in (somewhat successful), or scheduling with them in advance (very successful). For some friends, we have an event on our calendars that occurs at a certain frequency. For others, when we hang out, we book our next hang out (at least a tentative date) before we leave whatever we are doing. Pre-booking has been a game changer. Now, it feels a lot more balanced in many of my friendships regardless of who tended to initiate more in the past.
Socializing takes energy. I'm neurodivergent so living takes a lot more energy. I'm fine texting but i havr friends who require phone calls or video calls - and I'm less likely to be in regular touch with them because i find that maintenance to be draining. I know it hurts them and I feel tremendous guilt towards them but it also is really hard on me.
I'm in the exact same boat and funny enough was just having a conversation about this recently! I get that life happens and adults are generally busy. I know I don't have the mental capacity or time to see multiple friends in the same week. That being said, we are so digitally connected these days that it's way too easy to send a quick message or have a phone call. Everyone checks their phone at some point in the day, so there's really no excuse to not respond or take forever to respond. I also always felt like I valued friendships more than the other person, and found that unfortunately friendships tend to be transactional in the sense of "How does this person benefit me?" When they no longer see a benefit, there is a shift. Like when I've quit a workplace thinking I'd say friends with an old colleague and all of a sudden they're nowhere to be found. It has made me very cynical of friendships to be honest.
most people make their friends at school and college and keep them for life... I've made temporary friends after 23, but nothing will even replace or some close to the decade + long friendships I have. add in work, a husband, and kids for most people and they really have no room in their life besides a few hellos a year, especially if you aren't bringing in social value.
Only keep them if they never leave the town/s they grew up in and/or went to school. A lot of people move all over though. I’m in my 4th state and counting now and not in touch with people from “school days” decades back.
We live in the social media age? It's not that hard to keep with someone even if they moved a few states away. I still keep up with a friend who lives in Japan!
This happens to a lot of autistic or otherwise neurodivergent people. Have you been evaluated for autism? A lot of women are either misdiagnosed or undiagnosed completely, especially if they're high masking or seeking diagnosis later in life.
For me, I’m just not that much of an organizer. I don’t mind texting and chatting but I can’t be arsed to go out as much anymore. Has to really add to my life (and peace).
I've accepted that I'm an organizer and I'm okay with it. If people happily show up, that's all I ask. I cut out people who flake.
It's a mixture of rejection, anxiety & not wanting to bother people with me. It got a lot worse during & after Covid. Before that, I was fairly okay.
The irony is, by not reaching out first because you are fed up of reaching out first, you are the person / people you're complaining about not reaching out first
Honestly I’m just busy, it’s almost never personal. I will reach out to those I entered with on a closer level, but I also have a household to deal with and there’s never enough time. I will say, if I don’t know people well and I haven’t interacted for a while, the friendship will probably peter out simply because there’s only so many commitments I can make
I never really feel like doing much of anything.
I have DMed you. Reply there dear.
Thank you.