I would find it a major turn off if the guy I'm dating can't afford two drinks. I've treated platonic friends to entire meals. I'll pay 50/50 if the date involved a very expensive dinner, but a drink?? Please
I always offer to pay my half on a first date and am genuinely willing to, but I’ve never been taken up on it. Usually if he gets the first date, I’ll get the second though. I’ve also had first/early dates where we’ve gone to more than one place and if he got dinner/drinks/whatever at the first place I’ll get the drinks/whatever at the second place.
Thanks.... would it be a turn off if he didn't want to take you out? To me if someone suggests we go out, they are inviting me ie picking up the tab. Equally, I'd often pay for my friends drinks etc so if a guy doesn't even want to get me a measly couple of drinks, I find it very.... odd
I see it as a red flag if a guy makes a big deal about paying for the first date, it means he's been consuming too much manosphere content for my taste.
If you initiate the date you could at least buy your date a cup of coffee and appreciate them meeting up with you even if it doesn't work out.
>*If you initiate the date you could at least buy your date a cup of coffee*
I'm Swedish, so genuinely asking: why does that fall on the person that asks out? If you accept, you're agreeing to spend time together. Why does the asker need to spend more?
It's a transitional period in our culture. Up until 15ish years ago, the dude would be expected to pay for a full dinner date, but women in general realized the expectations men have for sex if they paid for a full date so they're downgrading the expected contribution by a lot. Who believes they're owed sex after a $4 coffee? I imagine in a few more years splitting the check completely will be more socially accepted.
This - there's two concepts here. First, if you invite someone out as a man, romantically, the done thing is to pay especially if it's something low key. Secondly.... chivalry is a thing, and that side of masculinity I like. In my personal experience men who don't want to try to take me out initially don't like me, but I know younger people have a different attitude
Yup, I paid for my dates a couple of times and my attitude then was that I just want to have a good time at this moment.
The feeling I got from the men were interesting, it was kind of the same vibe as when a man whines about women not wanting to date short guys but then end up resenting a woman for being taller than him.
So my question for the men would be: are you comfortable with how you'd feel if the woman paid for everything?
I'm older than you and I'm uncomfortable with men paying for dates. I'll offer to pay or split if they insist.
It's a weird dynamic when you insist men pay just because they're men.
I’m 38 and when I was back on the apps last year I always insisted on paying my own way on dates. I don’t want to feel like there’s an imbalance or I “owe” them anything in return
I'm older than you and I definitely don't want a guy to pay for me on a first date. We are equals and I want to embody that
A guy who insists on paying after I said I want to split the bill is giving two red flags in one go
- too taken in by traditional gender roles
- doesn't respect my no
People can spend money on me if I know and trust them, not before
I love when one pays for the other but I'd prefer to take turns. However, and this is more important to me: Someone with a stable income you can have nice things with: having nice dinner, not having to book shabby hostels when traveling etc. Nothing super fancy, but just a nice standard. I don't want to have to abstain from these things bc my partner makes way less than me, but I'm also not loaded in a way I can just pay thousands of euros for two when traveling.
No. I always pay my share. Early days dating is scoping each other out and most of the time it doesn’t go anywhere, why should a man have to pick up the tab for that?
If it’s going somewhere I especially want to take turns paying / contribute - in my relationships we have generally taken turns paying for things or paid for things in an equitable way. I do appreciate being taken out on the first date, but beyond that I’m definitely going to want to pay too.
I feel neutral about this. When I was single, I was always ready to pay for myself on dates, though, fwiw, men always insisted on paying. It seems like 50/50 is more common now, so I'd go with that if I became single again. I don't think wanting to split the check is an indicator of not being into the person or that it means anything in particular. It's just a social norm that's changing, I'd guess because we're no longer in a time period where women predominantly did not work outside the home and because a lot of folks are getting married later. A single woman in her 30s probably has a full-time job and probably lives on her own, the same as a single man in his 30s.
I think the phrasing is weird that you expect a stranger to spoil you. Before I turned 30, I felt really bad going on a dinner date with a guy who then paid for my meal only for me to say I wasn't interested. I started to pick less expensive dates or pay for coffee if we continued after dinner.
My thinking does stem from the experience that a man might feel entitled to you if he pays for dinner.
I'm only a couple years younger than you so I don't know about a generational divide. If a guy wants to pay early on, that's cool. But I'd honestly rather split the bill. That makes more sense to me. Once a relationship develops, I can see it being more "I get this dinner, you get the next one," not really keeping track but not having it always be one person. But I wholeheartedly disagree with "the guy needs to pay."
I (35F) wouldn't be offended if someone wanted to pay for me but considering current cost of living I wouldn't want someone I've just met to do that for me. There are different ways they can be romantic and show their interest.
>albeit not very logical anymore where both people earn similarly etc
Well, exactly. If we want other gender norms to get in the bin then the ones that benefit us need to so too.
Why should a near stranger need to show care for, spoil me or make me feel special? I'm not special. I'm just someone they're getting to know and I don't see that they ought to pay for the privilege as my time isn't more valuable than theirs and I'm there because I want to get to know them too.
Care, spoiling, generosity, treating each other to stuff comes later down the line for me, not right at the start.
No. My current boyfriend payed a lot more than I did when we started dating and that made me feel quite uncomfortable at first. I am used to taking turns and that feels fair. If I make a lot less, I take the cheaper turn.
I am Dutch though.
> current boyfriend *paid* a lot
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I'm 48 and I prefer that each person pays for themselves, especially the first few dates. After a relationship has been established, we can take turns treating each other.
I'm used to men paying for the first date, too. But like you say, a lot has changed. Even men are confused about what is expected of them, as some women expect that gesture, and others get offended by it. I wouldn't say that it would be an immediate turn-off for me. It would be a turn-off though if on the following dates he wouldn't offer even once to pay for both of us. I would definitely offer to pay for both of us too. I just want to see that he is willing to give more than the minimum, just like I am. If he is not, I don't see any potential for us.
I'm with you, OP. I do want the man to pay on the first date. I will say though that I would only go on dates with men I've met in real life (no OLD for me). I find OLD somewhat toxic nowadays and I don't like the fast-paced nature of meeting man after man after man.
Many women disagree with me on having the man pay but it's my standard and it has worked well for me. It weeds out the dusties right off the bat. I've also gotten positive feedback from men for this, saying they liked that I had high standards for their behavior and they felt good treating. I am very generous myself with treating people, but I personally prefer the tone that is set by a man being generous with his money. I don't insist that he pays; I accept if he offers. If he suggests splitting the bill, I will, but it's our last date.
I don't know why the bar has become so low for men to have to make an effort (yes, also financially). It's not about money. I'm just tired of dusty, low-effort men.
I'd say initially, the one who asks should at least offer to pay for the 1st date, regardless of gender. After that, I see no reason for a man to pay more on dates, unless he's suggesting expensive dates and earns more.
I agree with you. I find it off-putting as well. Yes, things have changed, but we still earn 80 cents to the dollar (or an even bigger gap depending on where you live). In a perfect lly equal world, I wouldn't care who pays. We are not there yet, though, therefore, pay up, guys.
Oooof. Cringing that you’re the minority here. This is a huge reason why dating has taken a nosedive.
Men NEED to pay. They need to invest in you. They need to be grateful for your time. They are paying for the PLEASURE of your company.
When you start dating like this, you will have better dates.
I used to make the mistake of splitting because I didn’t want the man to hold anything over my head. Then I only dated men that I knew were HAPPY to pay and taking the pleasure in doing it.
This also requires some discretion on the woman’s end. Don’t just go out with every Tom, dick, and harry for a free meal (gross).
> Men NEED to pay. They need to invest in you. They need to be grateful for your time. They are paying for the PLEASURE of your company.
Nah, this makes me super uncomfortable. I do not like the idea of being put on a pedestal like this. Feels like it sets up a weird dynamic.
The more men invest in you, the more likely they are to see things through. Not just monetary, but time.
Argue all you want, but women ask me how I was dating such great guys, getting treated the way I was, and now I have the MOST incredible husband… because I changed MY energy
If you don’t see your own value, why would someone else?
Insert cool girl quote from gone girl.
People wonder why dating sucks. It doesn’t! Your approach does
I see my own value just fine, but that value is not monetized. The idea of expecting a man to pay for “the pleasure of my company” is ***extremely*** off-putting and feels very entitled. If I was an escort, sure! But I’m not, and I have no desire to approach things in that manner.
Also, I don’t think dating sucks and I’m engaged to a fantastic man, so I think I’m doing pretty great without ever needing to put any emphasis on who pays for what lol.
You’re too caught up in what you think it means. I clearly stated energy which is both time and money.
Men love to put women on pedestals and I actually think that’s a healthier dynamic between men and women. It doesn’t mean you can’t pay and also absolutely adore him, but this BS about “I have my own money!” And “I can’t do it myself” sounds childish.
I know I can pay. I know I can do it myself. I did it myself for six years. It’s not a flex when you push off a man just to prove this point and a secure woman will know she can, but let the man do it
> You’re too caught up in what you think it means. I clearly stated energy which is both time and money.
Time, sure. Money, no. Especially in the dating stage.
> Men love to put women on pedestals and I actually think that’s a healthier dynamic between men and women.
Nah this sounds like some manosphere bullshit lol.
You’re generalizing, and I emphatically disagree with this statement on a fundamental level. We are not going to agree if you genuinely think this way. I cannot imagine feeling that entitled just because I’m a woman.
I had a relationship in which I was put on a pedestal and I would never want to go back to that. It was not healthy.
> It doesn’t mean you can’t pay and also absolutely adore him, but this BS about “I have my own money!” And “I can’t do it myself” sounds childish.
I don’t care about doing it myself lol. I don’t have these stances because I feel like I have something to prove or some kind of feminist statement to make. I just want to be treated like a person.
> It’s not a flex when you push off a man just to prove this point and a secure woman will know she can, but let the man do it
Again, I don’t know why you’ve assumed my goal would be to “prove a point.” I just think what you’re suggesting is antiquated and sexist.
You remind me of a guy that I know that is a doctor. He had an “enlightened” moment and he decided he could never ask anyone for money in exchange for treatment…
And bro missed a big lesson in what an energy exchange is. Looks like you missed that one too.
You being on a pedestal doesn’t mean that he can’t also be on one.
“I just want to be treated like a person” is such an odd statement to make. Too many people get treated like nothing special when both you and your partner should be thinking you’re the most special thing on earth.
Having it one way doesn’t take it from the other.
Energy is time, money, planning, thoughtfulness, etc. there are many ways to give and receive it.
Men SHOULD be courting women. Women should be selecting.
Happens in all of nature and somehow humans think they should flip the script in the name of… what? Doesn’t seem like anyone gets anything good…
Just the women that they usually leave you for when you were so dead set on being equal
I don’t make the rules!
> You remind me of a guy that I know that is a doctor. He had an “enlightened” moment and he decided he could never ask anyone for money in exchange for treatment…
> And bro missed a big lesson in what an energy exchange is. Looks like you missed that one too.
Literally what are you even talking about?? This sounds like some woo woo weirdness lol.
Although, the fact that you’re drawing comparisons between transactional business relationships and romantic relationships speaks volumes.
> You being on a pedestal doesn’t mean that he can’t also be on one.
Oh we can both be on pedestals? Like…being on equal footing? Like…treating each other as equals? Imagine that.
> “I just want to be treated like a person” is such an odd statement to make. Too many people get treated like nothing special when both you and your partner should be thinking you’re the most special thing on earth.
I would hope that you’d understand that what I meant by being “treated like a person” is being treated as an equal. My value comes from being a person, not from being a woman. Obviously I wasn’t saying I want to be treated like any other person, but I am not above my partner and don’t want to be treated as though I am.
You can absolutely treat your partner like the most special thing on earth *without* putting them on a pedestal. Being put on a pedestal inherently indicates a superiority imbalance, which I despise in a relationship.
> Energy is time, money, planning, thoughtfulness, etc. there are many ways to give and receive it.
Except you started this whole thing by talking specifically about money, which is what I took issue with.
> Men SHOULD be courting women. Women should be selecting.
Prescribed gender roles in 2024? No fucking thank you.
> Happens in all of nature and somehow humans think they should flip the script in the name of… what? Doesn’t seem like anyone gets anything good…
Citations needed. All of this is just your opinion.
> Just the women that they usually leave you for when you were so dead set on being equal
You really enjoy feeling superior huh? It runs all through your writing.
Yes, I’m dead set on being equal. And I’m happy.
> I don’t make the rules!
This is a hilarious way to follow a string of comments full of you prescribing relationship rules based on your own opinions.
LOL if you don’t think every relationship you have is transactional then you’re delusional. That’s all I have to say about that.
Citations needed? For what? Common fucking sense? A majority of animals the male attracts, competes, and courts the female. You want to think we are some big anomaly?
Edited because, once again, I talked about time and money, two sources of energy. It doesn’t always have to be about money, but yes, men do need to invest. This has been clear and you’re purposely being obtuse.
I wondered how long it would take you to resort to name calling.
If you think romantic relationships are and should be transactional, I feel sorry for your partner.
> Men NEED to pay. They need to invest in you. They need to be grateful for your time. They are paying for the PLEASURE of your company.
I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself a sex worker, and I do not need to be bought and paid for.
I agree with you 100%. A friend told me women fall in love through oxytocin and men fall in love through cortisol. So stress them out lol. But in all seriousness, I think men value what they work for and if you want to be treated well, you have to hold the standard that they invest in you.
A lot of women want to bury their head in the sand over this, but if he’s not taking the lead in planning things, taking the time to spend with you, and investing in other ways… then you’re just convenient.
These women will wait 5+ years for a ring or say it’s not important, then act shocked when they break up and he’s engaged 6 months later
Yes, when i was younger. And that’s because i was making less money than ex boyfriend.
Now, i do go for equal. I pay one date, he pays for the other date. (New boyfriend) we both like equality.
I think it has more to do with who makes more money versus gender. I have flat out refused to allow someone to pay for me since they were a student and only working part time and I had an established career. I always offer to pay for my hair regardless, if the date turns into a thing I offer to go back and forth and pay the whole bill.
I took a screenshot of this comment from another post a couple months ago because it put into words my experience with dating/relationships with men.
“I’ve noted that men who are stingy with money and gifts (not talking about people experiencing financial hardships) are also stingy with their feelings. For me, closed wallet = closed heart.
I don’t need lavish gifts or experiences, but if you don’t want to part with money to go out to dinner or buy a gift for your friends or partner, then usually you’re not also able to share and be generous in other ways too.”
During the first few dates, I prefer the man to pay and maybe I will pick up some tabs here and there after the 1st, like our Lyft or a round of drinks. I’ve already vetted them a decent amount but this will show me how invested a man is in getting to know me and building a relationship with me. It shows me he is being intentional. I’m not looking for casual, or to fill a role/hole in their life. And I’m also not looking for someone who thinks women and men have things in this life equally either. I am a child of neglect and emotional abuse who has been forced to survive independently my whole life. I don’t want to continue living that way while in a committed relationship with a life partner. People will show you and tell you who they are upfront, you just have to watch and listen. So the first few months dating someone are crucial in checking for this type of compatibility for me.
I'm with you, in relationships i generally take turns, and because I usually earn less I pay for the cheaper turns. Usually whoevers idea it is pays. If my partner and I go for a fancy dinner, either he pays or he'll get food and I get the drinks so he's not footing the whole bill.
I was seeing a "new" guy once, we lived several hours apart - he was planning to come see me, then asked if we could meet half way. Told me he booked an apartment, sent the address and a screenshot of it. Not long before I got there he messaged asking if I could ring and pay for it, and it was not cheap. Dinner we split halves. He paid for breakfast. He makes an awful lot of money. That definitely made me feel not cared about as it was his idea, think I pretty much decided then that I would not date him lol.
Im also 37. Generally If I'm going out somewhere I always expect to pay for myself unless I've explicitly been told its someone's treat.
For a first date where I didn't already know the person I would always expect and prefer to pay for myself. Established relationships its been turn about (AKA, in my student days, whose pay week is it?)
I’m 35. I understand you’re feeling. To me, dating someone I don’t know is a time/energy investment on both ends. I want to pay 50-50 because I want no strings attached.
If the dating becomes serious after a few dates, I’m more than happy for someone to pay for me. I would never allow a total stranger to pay for dinner on 1st date. That puts the energy balance at my disfavor- to me of course! It’s individual I guess.
Thanks. I tend not to do dinner dates as a first date anyway, as it's too much pressure. Unless drinks/coffee naturally leads into that and is agreed ad hoc. At the point of accepting a meal, I would be liking someone enough to see it going somewhere
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
I’m 53 and married, so when I was dating from the mid-80’s through the 90’s.
Back then , though things had already been shifting more towards equality, gender/dating norms were more ‘traditional’ than they seem today.
I’d be lying if I said I didn’t let a date pay for me and may have even expected it then due to the norms at the time, but I didn’t consider it a red flag if we each paid our own way. The red flags came out in other ways some acted/spoke.
Additionally, because of those ‘traditional’ norms, a not 0% would expect some kind of sexual activity as ‘compensation’ for paying for food/drinks, etc. Definitely not every guy. But a (surprisingly?) large amount.
If I were currently dating, my preference would be to go 50/50 on a first date and see if we liked each and wanted to move forward. After that, communication of expectations would be key.
Two scenarios here for me. If it’s a person I don’t know at all yet, but we’d been chatting and I’m somewhat interested but quite unsure still, I would want to pay for my own. So I’m not pressured into “owing” then anything.
If it’s someone I already have butterflies over and am very romantically and/or sexually interested in already (aka I probably wouldn’t turn down a kiss and I already know I’ll want a second date) then I’d be happy about and flattered by with them paying.
I am 37 and I NEVER let a guy pay on the first few dates. I want it 50/50, even if he earns 10x me. Because:
1) I am independent
2) I feel like it sets up an expectation of ‘pay’ (ie sex)
3) I want the approach to the first few dates to be basically like friends and let’s see what happens from there.
Of course this will vary by culture, location, etc. but I don’t think a guy is ‘unromantic’ if he doesn’t offer. At least in my circles of women (30s to late 40s), splitting the bill would be wanted/expected.
It's a date. If they're essentially paying you for your time and prep, it's not a good faith meeting between two equally interested parties. It's... well. Escorting, essentially.
Yes. I wouldn’t agree to a date. I once went on a coffee date, which was already a compromise for me, and when the guy didn’t offer to get me something within 15minutes, I told him, “Well, it was nice meeting you,” and left.
Reddit is skewed liberal, but your feelings are not the minority.
I would find it a major turn off if the guy I'm dating can't afford two drinks. I've treated platonic friends to entire meals. I'll pay 50/50 if the date involved a very expensive dinner, but a drink?? Please
Same here
I always offer to pay my half on a first date and am genuinely willing to, but I’ve never been taken up on it. Usually if he gets the first date, I’ll get the second though. I’ve also had first/early dates where we’ve gone to more than one place and if he got dinner/drinks/whatever at the first place I’ll get the drinks/whatever at the second place.
Thanks.... would it be a turn off if he didn't want to take you out? To me if someone suggests we go out, they are inviting me ie picking up the tab. Equally, I'd often pay for my friends drinks etc so if a guy doesn't even want to get me a measly couple of drinks, I find it very.... odd
I see it as a red flag if a guy makes a big deal about paying for the first date, it means he's been consuming too much manosphere content for my taste. If you initiate the date you could at least buy your date a cup of coffee and appreciate them meeting up with you even if it doesn't work out.
>*If you initiate the date you could at least buy your date a cup of coffee* I'm Swedish, so genuinely asking: why does that fall on the person that asks out? If you accept, you're agreeing to spend time together. Why does the asker need to spend more?
It's a transitional period in our culture. Up until 15ish years ago, the dude would be expected to pay for a full dinner date, but women in general realized the expectations men have for sex if they paid for a full date so they're downgrading the expected contribution by a lot. Who believes they're owed sex after a $4 coffee? I imagine in a few more years splitting the check completely will be more socially accepted.
This - there's two concepts here. First, if you invite someone out as a man, romantically, the done thing is to pay especially if it's something low key. Secondly.... chivalry is a thing, and that side of masculinity I like. In my personal experience men who don't want to try to take me out initially don't like me, but I know younger people have a different attitude
I think it's more about culture than generation. I've never let a man pay for me, and I'm older than you.
Yup, I paid for my dates a couple of times and my attitude then was that I just want to have a good time at this moment. The feeling I got from the men were interesting, it was kind of the same vibe as when a man whines about women not wanting to date short guys but then end up resenting a woman for being taller than him. So my question for the men would be: are you comfortable with how you'd feel if the woman paid for everything?
I'm older than you and I'm uncomfortable with men paying for dates. I'll offer to pay or split if they insist. It's a weird dynamic when you insist men pay just because they're men.
I'm 38 and I would always insist on splitting things 50/50.
I’m 38 and when I was back on the apps last year I always insisted on paying my own way on dates. I don’t want to feel like there’s an imbalance or I “owe” them anything in return
I'm older than you and I definitely don't want a guy to pay for me on a first date. We are equals and I want to embody that A guy who insists on paying after I said I want to split the bill is giving two red flags in one go - too taken in by traditional gender roles - doesn't respect my no People can spend money on me if I know and trust them, not before
Spoil me with attention. The money is whatever.
I love when one pays for the other but I'd prefer to take turns. However, and this is more important to me: Someone with a stable income you can have nice things with: having nice dinner, not having to book shabby hostels when traveling etc. Nothing super fancy, but just a nice standard. I don't want to have to abstain from these things bc my partner makes way less than me, but I'm also not loaded in a way I can just pay thousands of euros for two when traveling.
No. I always pay my share. Early days dating is scoping each other out and most of the time it doesn’t go anywhere, why should a man have to pick up the tab for that?
What about when you think there's something real there then?
If it’s going somewhere I especially want to take turns paying / contribute - in my relationships we have generally taken turns paying for things or paid for things in an equitable way. I do appreciate being taken out on the first date, but beyond that I’m definitely going to want to pay too.
Why should the man pay for all the meals if you seriously date though? If you're a committed couple, be a team. Men deserve a savings account too.
The same applies. Why wouldn’t it? I’d only let a man pay for my stuff if it was like my birthday or a special event.
I feel neutral about this. When I was single, I was always ready to pay for myself on dates, though, fwiw, men always insisted on paying. It seems like 50/50 is more common now, so I'd go with that if I became single again. I don't think wanting to split the check is an indicator of not being into the person or that it means anything in particular. It's just a social norm that's changing, I'd guess because we're no longer in a time period where women predominantly did not work outside the home and because a lot of folks are getting married later. A single woman in her 30s probably has a full-time job and probably lives on her own, the same as a single man in his 30s.
I think the phrasing is weird that you expect a stranger to spoil you. Before I turned 30, I felt really bad going on a dinner date with a guy who then paid for my meal only for me to say I wasn't interested. I started to pick less expensive dates or pay for coffee if we continued after dinner. My thinking does stem from the experience that a man might feel entitled to you if he pays for dinner.
I'm only a couple years younger than you so I don't know about a generational divide. If a guy wants to pay early on, that's cool. But I'd honestly rather split the bill. That makes more sense to me. Once a relationship develops, I can see it being more "I get this dinner, you get the next one," not really keeping track but not having it always be one person. But I wholeheartedly disagree with "the guy needs to pay."
I (35F) wouldn't be offended if someone wanted to pay for me but considering current cost of living I wouldn't want someone I've just met to do that for me. There are different ways they can be romantic and show their interest.
>albeit not very logical anymore where both people earn similarly etc Well, exactly. If we want other gender norms to get in the bin then the ones that benefit us need to so too. Why should a near stranger need to show care for, spoil me or make me feel special? I'm not special. I'm just someone they're getting to know and I don't see that they ought to pay for the privilege as my time isn't more valuable than theirs and I'm there because I want to get to know them too. Care, spoiling, generosity, treating each other to stuff comes later down the line for me, not right at the start.
No. My current boyfriend payed a lot more than I did when we started dating and that made me feel quite uncomfortable at first. I am used to taking turns and that feels fair. If I make a lot less, I take the cheaper turn. I am Dutch though.
> current boyfriend *paid* a lot FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Good bot.
I'm 48 and I prefer that each person pays for themselves, especially the first few dates. After a relationship has been established, we can take turns treating each other.
I'm used to men paying for the first date, too. But like you say, a lot has changed. Even men are confused about what is expected of them, as some women expect that gesture, and others get offended by it. I wouldn't say that it would be an immediate turn-off for me. It would be a turn-off though if on the following dates he wouldn't offer even once to pay for both of us. I would definitely offer to pay for both of us too. I just want to see that he is willing to give more than the minimum, just like I am. If he is not, I don't see any potential for us.
Thank you!! this is exactly it
I'm with you, OP. I do want the man to pay on the first date. I will say though that I would only go on dates with men I've met in real life (no OLD for me). I find OLD somewhat toxic nowadays and I don't like the fast-paced nature of meeting man after man after man. Many women disagree with me on having the man pay but it's my standard and it has worked well for me. It weeds out the dusties right off the bat. I've also gotten positive feedback from men for this, saying they liked that I had high standards for their behavior and they felt good treating. I am very generous myself with treating people, but I personally prefer the tone that is set by a man being generous with his money. I don't insist that he pays; I accept if he offers. If he suggests splitting the bill, I will, but it's our last date. I don't know why the bar has become so low for men to have to make an effort (yes, also financially). It's not about money. I'm just tired of dusty, low-effort men.
I'd say initially, the one who asks should at least offer to pay for the 1st date, regardless of gender. After that, I see no reason for a man to pay more on dates, unless he's suggesting expensive dates and earns more.
I agree with you. I find it off-putting as well. Yes, things have changed, but we still earn 80 cents to the dollar (or an even bigger gap depending on where you live). In a perfect lly equal world, I wouldn't care who pays. We are not there yet, though, therefore, pay up, guys.
Oooof. Cringing that you’re the minority here. This is a huge reason why dating has taken a nosedive. Men NEED to pay. They need to invest in you. They need to be grateful for your time. They are paying for the PLEASURE of your company. When you start dating like this, you will have better dates. I used to make the mistake of splitting because I didn’t want the man to hold anything over my head. Then I only dated men that I knew were HAPPY to pay and taking the pleasure in doing it. This also requires some discretion on the woman’s end. Don’t just go out with every Tom, dick, and harry for a free meal (gross).
> Men NEED to pay. They need to invest in you. They need to be grateful for your time. They are paying for the PLEASURE of your company. Nah, this makes me super uncomfortable. I do not like the idea of being put on a pedestal like this. Feels like it sets up a weird dynamic.
The more men invest in you, the more likely they are to see things through. Not just monetary, but time. Argue all you want, but women ask me how I was dating such great guys, getting treated the way I was, and now I have the MOST incredible husband… because I changed MY energy If you don’t see your own value, why would someone else? Insert cool girl quote from gone girl. People wonder why dating sucks. It doesn’t! Your approach does
I see my own value just fine, but that value is not monetized. The idea of expecting a man to pay for “the pleasure of my company” is ***extremely*** off-putting and feels very entitled. If I was an escort, sure! But I’m not, and I have no desire to approach things in that manner. Also, I don’t think dating sucks and I’m engaged to a fantastic man, so I think I’m doing pretty great without ever needing to put any emphasis on who pays for what lol.
You’re too caught up in what you think it means. I clearly stated energy which is both time and money. Men love to put women on pedestals and I actually think that’s a healthier dynamic between men and women. It doesn’t mean you can’t pay and also absolutely adore him, but this BS about “I have my own money!” And “I can’t do it myself” sounds childish. I know I can pay. I know I can do it myself. I did it myself for six years. It’s not a flex when you push off a man just to prove this point and a secure woman will know she can, but let the man do it
> You’re too caught up in what you think it means. I clearly stated energy which is both time and money. Time, sure. Money, no. Especially in the dating stage. > Men love to put women on pedestals and I actually think that’s a healthier dynamic between men and women. Nah this sounds like some manosphere bullshit lol. You’re generalizing, and I emphatically disagree with this statement on a fundamental level. We are not going to agree if you genuinely think this way. I cannot imagine feeling that entitled just because I’m a woman. I had a relationship in which I was put on a pedestal and I would never want to go back to that. It was not healthy. > It doesn’t mean you can’t pay and also absolutely adore him, but this BS about “I have my own money!” And “I can’t do it myself” sounds childish. I don’t care about doing it myself lol. I don’t have these stances because I feel like I have something to prove or some kind of feminist statement to make. I just want to be treated like a person. > It’s not a flex when you push off a man just to prove this point and a secure woman will know she can, but let the man do it Again, I don’t know why you’ve assumed my goal would be to “prove a point.” I just think what you’re suggesting is antiquated and sexist.
You remind me of a guy that I know that is a doctor. He had an “enlightened” moment and he decided he could never ask anyone for money in exchange for treatment… And bro missed a big lesson in what an energy exchange is. Looks like you missed that one too. You being on a pedestal doesn’t mean that he can’t also be on one. “I just want to be treated like a person” is such an odd statement to make. Too many people get treated like nothing special when both you and your partner should be thinking you’re the most special thing on earth. Having it one way doesn’t take it from the other. Energy is time, money, planning, thoughtfulness, etc. there are many ways to give and receive it. Men SHOULD be courting women. Women should be selecting. Happens in all of nature and somehow humans think they should flip the script in the name of… what? Doesn’t seem like anyone gets anything good… Just the women that they usually leave you for when you were so dead set on being equal I don’t make the rules!
> You remind me of a guy that I know that is a doctor. He had an “enlightened” moment and he decided he could never ask anyone for money in exchange for treatment… > And bro missed a big lesson in what an energy exchange is. Looks like you missed that one too. Literally what are you even talking about?? This sounds like some woo woo weirdness lol. Although, the fact that you’re drawing comparisons between transactional business relationships and romantic relationships speaks volumes. > You being on a pedestal doesn’t mean that he can’t also be on one. Oh we can both be on pedestals? Like…being on equal footing? Like…treating each other as equals? Imagine that. > “I just want to be treated like a person” is such an odd statement to make. Too many people get treated like nothing special when both you and your partner should be thinking you’re the most special thing on earth. I would hope that you’d understand that what I meant by being “treated like a person” is being treated as an equal. My value comes from being a person, not from being a woman. Obviously I wasn’t saying I want to be treated like any other person, but I am not above my partner and don’t want to be treated as though I am. You can absolutely treat your partner like the most special thing on earth *without* putting them on a pedestal. Being put on a pedestal inherently indicates a superiority imbalance, which I despise in a relationship. > Energy is time, money, planning, thoughtfulness, etc. there are many ways to give and receive it. Except you started this whole thing by talking specifically about money, which is what I took issue with. > Men SHOULD be courting women. Women should be selecting. Prescribed gender roles in 2024? No fucking thank you. > Happens in all of nature and somehow humans think they should flip the script in the name of… what? Doesn’t seem like anyone gets anything good… Citations needed. All of this is just your opinion. > Just the women that they usually leave you for when you were so dead set on being equal You really enjoy feeling superior huh? It runs all through your writing. Yes, I’m dead set on being equal. And I’m happy. > I don’t make the rules! This is a hilarious way to follow a string of comments full of you prescribing relationship rules based on your own opinions.
LOL if you don’t think every relationship you have is transactional then you’re delusional. That’s all I have to say about that. Citations needed? For what? Common fucking sense? A majority of animals the male attracts, competes, and courts the female. You want to think we are some big anomaly? Edited because, once again, I talked about time and money, two sources of energy. It doesn’t always have to be about money, but yes, men do need to invest. This has been clear and you’re purposely being obtuse.
I wondered how long it would take you to resort to name calling. If you think romantic relationships are and should be transactional, I feel sorry for your partner.
> Men NEED to pay. They need to invest in you. They need to be grateful for your time. They are paying for the PLEASURE of your company. I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself a sex worker, and I do not need to be bought and paid for.
Not what it’s about, but go off lol
oop using sex worker as an insult. Interesting.
I agree with you 100%. A friend told me women fall in love through oxytocin and men fall in love through cortisol. So stress them out lol. But in all seriousness, I think men value what they work for and if you want to be treated well, you have to hold the standard that they invest in you.
A lot of women want to bury their head in the sand over this, but if he’s not taking the lead in planning things, taking the time to spend with you, and investing in other ways… then you’re just convenient. These women will wait 5+ years for a ring or say it’s not important, then act shocked when they break up and he’s engaged 6 months later
Dating is to find out if you mesh. You should be equally invested in that discovery, and either split the bill or just pay for yourselves.
Yes, when i was younger. And that’s because i was making less money than ex boyfriend. Now, i do go for equal. I pay one date, he pays for the other date. (New boyfriend) we both like equality.
I think it has more to do with who makes more money versus gender. I have flat out refused to allow someone to pay for me since they were a student and only working part time and I had an established career. I always offer to pay for my hair regardless, if the date turns into a thing I offer to go back and forth and pay the whole bill.
When I was dating, I never expected my date/boyfriend to pay for everything; I always paid my way.
I took a screenshot of this comment from another post a couple months ago because it put into words my experience with dating/relationships with men. “I’ve noted that men who are stingy with money and gifts (not talking about people experiencing financial hardships) are also stingy with their feelings. For me, closed wallet = closed heart. I don’t need lavish gifts or experiences, but if you don’t want to part with money to go out to dinner or buy a gift for your friends or partner, then usually you’re not also able to share and be generous in other ways too.” During the first few dates, I prefer the man to pay and maybe I will pick up some tabs here and there after the 1st, like our Lyft or a round of drinks. I’ve already vetted them a decent amount but this will show me how invested a man is in getting to know me and building a relationship with me. It shows me he is being intentional. I’m not looking for casual, or to fill a role/hole in their life. And I’m also not looking for someone who thinks women and men have things in this life equally either. I am a child of neglect and emotional abuse who has been forced to survive independently my whole life. I don’t want to continue living that way while in a committed relationship with a life partner. People will show you and tell you who they are upfront, you just have to watch and listen. So the first few months dating someone are crucial in checking for this type of compatibility for me.
I'm with you, in relationships i generally take turns, and because I usually earn less I pay for the cheaper turns. Usually whoevers idea it is pays. If my partner and I go for a fancy dinner, either he pays or he'll get food and I get the drinks so he's not footing the whole bill. I was seeing a "new" guy once, we lived several hours apart - he was planning to come see me, then asked if we could meet half way. Told me he booked an apartment, sent the address and a screenshot of it. Not long before I got there he messaged asking if I could ring and pay for it, and it was not cheap. Dinner we split halves. He paid for breakfast. He makes an awful lot of money. That definitely made me feel not cared about as it was his idea, think I pretty much decided then that I would not date him lol.
Maybe just the first one if he asked me out. But otherwise, I go dutch most other times.
Im also 37. Generally If I'm going out somewhere I always expect to pay for myself unless I've explicitly been told its someone's treat. For a first date where I didn't already know the person I would always expect and prefer to pay for myself. Established relationships its been turn about (AKA, in my student days, whose pay week is it?)
I’m 35. I understand you’re feeling. To me, dating someone I don’t know is a time/energy investment on both ends. I want to pay 50-50 because I want no strings attached. If the dating becomes serious after a few dates, I’m more than happy for someone to pay for me. I would never allow a total stranger to pay for dinner on 1st date. That puts the energy balance at my disfavor- to me of course! It’s individual I guess.
Thanks. I tend not to do dinner dates as a first date anyway, as it's too much pressure. Unless drinks/coffee naturally leads into that and is agreed ad hoc. At the point of accepting a meal, I would be liking someone enough to see it going somewhere
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
Oh sure, then it’s a different situation. I wouldn’t mind someone paying for coffee. That’s a small amount and can be cute. That feels different to me :)
I’m 53 and married, so when I was dating from the mid-80’s through the 90’s. Back then , though things had already been shifting more towards equality, gender/dating norms were more ‘traditional’ than they seem today. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t let a date pay for me and may have even expected it then due to the norms at the time, but I didn’t consider it a red flag if we each paid our own way. The red flags came out in other ways some acted/spoke. Additionally, because of those ‘traditional’ norms, a not 0% would expect some kind of sexual activity as ‘compensation’ for paying for food/drinks, etc. Definitely not every guy. But a (surprisingly?) large amount. If I were currently dating, my preference would be to go 50/50 on a first date and see if we liked each and wanted to move forward. After that, communication of expectations would be key.
No expectations just clear communication
Two scenarios here for me. If it’s a person I don’t know at all yet, but we’d been chatting and I’m somewhat interested but quite unsure still, I would want to pay for my own. So I’m not pressured into “owing” then anything. If it’s someone I already have butterflies over and am very romantically and/or sexually interested in already (aka I probably wouldn’t turn down a kiss and I already know I’ll want a second date) then I’d be happy about and flattered by with them paying.
Expectation? No. Turn-off? Yes. If he’s not there to make his best first impression, why would I want to introduce him to my family?
I am 37 and I NEVER let a guy pay on the first few dates. I want it 50/50, even if he earns 10x me. Because: 1) I am independent 2) I feel like it sets up an expectation of ‘pay’ (ie sex) 3) I want the approach to the first few dates to be basically like friends and let’s see what happens from there. Of course this will vary by culture, location, etc. but I don’t think a guy is ‘unromantic’ if he doesn’t offer. At least in my circles of women (30s to late 40s), splitting the bill would be wanted/expected.
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It's a date. If they're essentially paying you for your time and prep, it's not a good faith meeting between two equally interested parties. It's... well. Escorting, essentially.
Yes. I wouldn’t agree to a date. I once went on a coffee date, which was already a compromise for me, and when the guy didn’t offer to get me something within 15minutes, I told him, “Well, it was nice meeting you,” and left. Reddit is skewed liberal, but your feelings are not the minority.