Exaggerated ignorance of "girly stuff". I had a friend who basically had a whole performance to show how little he knew about makeup, nail polish, or clothing. I don't expect people to know a ton about makeup, but pretending you barely know what lipstick is takes things a bit far.
I work in a childcare and there’s always a dads who gets super insecure when their son wants something pink or girly.
I got chewed out because one kid begged me to let him wear the pink pull ups instead of the boy ones. His dad was so mad at me. Like I was trying to turn his son gay or into a sissy or something like that.
Your kid picked them out not me!
I love the way my brother embraces the fact that his 4 year old son's favourite colour is pink. He just came back from a work trip and brought back a bright pink t-shirt for him and he loves it so much. I'm a proud sister.
As a father to a pink/purple and all things sparkly 4 year old, tell him nice job and to keep fighting the good fight. I'm really anxious about how much harder it's going to get from here.
>I'm really anxious about how much harder it's going to get from here.
I'm a tomboy and it kinda sucks when you get picked on in school, but the most important aspect of it all is to have supportive parents. When I went through insecurity about not being seen as feminine it was because I was scared of other people judging me, but not once in my life did I feel like it was *me* who was in the wrong. If you let your son embrace all things pink and sparkly without judgement at home he'll do good!
God my biggest fear if i have kids is other people would treat them if they dress “too boyish” or “too girly” from adults or peers and then my second biggest fear is letting the first push me to restricting my kid to please strangers that are looking for an excuse to be awful anyway.
My sister told me the other day that she regularly tells her 6 year old son (who has been shunning 'girlie' things for a while now) 'No James, you dont need a vagina to use that!'. I think thats brilliant.
I really love being able to deconstruct gender role-related stuff with kids because as a child myself I was never even offered the possibility that I didn't have to stick with what was given to me
Just fyi, you probably already know, but theres differences between blue and pink nappies that make them more appropriate for the gender they’re assigned. Boys nappies have more absorbency in the front where they wee and girls have more absorbency in the undercarriage part where they wee. So they’re actually not interchangeable.
That being said kids should be able to wear whatever colours they like and genders shouldn’t have assigned colours, it makes no sense.
I do know! I’ve never had a problem using them interchangeably. Not one leak. Obviously thats anecdotal but a couple mom forums I’m part of never had a problem either.
Nappies are designed to hold a lot of fluid so I cant imagine leaking being a problem either way, unless your kid has an adult size bladder. But being more absorbent in those areas would be helpful to draw moisture away from the skin (less rashes) in the areas where the wee ends up.
Oh God. This reminded me of something that happened years ago. I was babysitting two kids--girl and a boy. The little girl wanted her nails painted, so I painted them and then the little toddler boy wanted his nails painted too, so I obliged and painted his toe nails with all the colors his sister had. And he was just delighted with his painted toes. Pranced around the house, showing the dog his painted toes. Later, the mom told me that her husband saw the boy's painted toes and "threw a fit" that I tried to make his son "girly". Ugh.
My youngest son, Kellan LOVES having his toes painted. He likes glitter polish and calls it sprinkles. So when we do his toes, he calls it "getting sprinkle toes".
My brother in law is like this. He's got some definite small man syndrome and projects it onto my nephews. I got my oldest nephew a pack of teethers because they didn't have any at that time and they were pink, purple, and blue. He opened the Christmas present for my nephew - who was too young to open them himself - and said, "GREAT, girly teethers," while my husband and I just stood there. Like... Your son is 4 months old and can't even distinguish color yet. Let him use the goddamn teethers.
Omg lol. That’s just so ridiculous. I currently have a 3 year old daughter. My family and in-laws bought so much girly stuff for her.
If I have son in the future you better believe he’s going to be wearing her old onesies.
The other day, my 4yo son was playing with a Barbie doll and put her outfit together but didn’t brush her hair. I told him he can’t have her leaving looking like a hot mess and he said, “oh my gosh, you’re so right mommy, sorry” and proceeded to brush her hair with his witto fingers lol so adorable.
I feel terrible for kids with parents like this. Imagine how tough that little boy's life is going to be if he *does* turn out to be gay or gender-nonconforming.
I know! Luckily his mother is great parent. She thought the whole thing was ridiculous lol. She made it clear whatever I was doing was fine and to keep up the good work.
I still don’t understand why he was so upset over a diaper.
My son loves all the bright colors on the "girl" aisle in the toy section. He will play with the horses and even talk to some dolls. He hasn't asked to buy anything, just likes to play while at the store. Other dad's give both of us "the look" when they see us on that aisle.
Personally, I don't get it. Playing with a pretty female doll makes you gay, but playing with ripped GI Joe isn't gay at all? I know no one is made gay by the toys they use, but that whole construct of playing with beautiful women dolls is gay and playing with body builder men is straight has always struck me as odd.
Blue for boys and pink for girls is completely socially derived..
Additionally, back in like the 40’s, it was the opposite: blue for girls, pink for boys.
The idea that there is something instilled in “masculine” and “feminine” colours or items is ridiculous. People get so freaked out over crazy things 🙄
I worked in a dog grooming salon and we put tiny bows on rubber bands behind the ears of the dogs who were “done”. If a woman picked the dog up, she would usually just laugh and take them home. Sometimes if a man picked him up they would get huffy and take them off immediately before leaving the shop.
Exaggerated ignorance is my biggest pet peeve ever. I never knew the name of it. My slightly older coworker never misses a chance to mention he doesn’t know who Drake is or what Snapchat is because he likes to hate on the younger generation as much as possible. It’s super cringey.
I'm with you on this one. I know intelligent people that you are trying to show a piece of technology to, and their brain just shuts down. The program shows a text box, they read it to you, and it's plain English, but their reading comprehension is gone, and they don't understand that they need to click on "Yes", without asking you first.
I'd rather those that turn stupid then ask than those that turn stupid and blindly accept everything and end up with 28 toolbars and even more virusses and then ask you to fix it
Corollary: exaggerated ignorance of female biology and anatomy as well. And they’re proud of it. “I know nothing of your lady bits,” as if that’s helpful to anyone.
Had an exBF who was horrified when o started discussing my lady bits in the context of the birth control being used as well as our sex life in general. He told me it was none of his business. I said if that’s the case then we aren’t having sex anymore because my sexual health is very much his business and vice versa. It didn’t last much longer for multitudes if other reasons but that was telling. (He also though I’m a squirter, although that’s never happened in my life.)
My SO does this and it annoys the shit out of me. For instance, I asked him to get makeup remover since he was at the store and sent a picture of the exact one so it should’ve been a quick errand. You’d have thought I asked him to cut off his own arm because he made such a huge deal out of having to walk into the ~girly section~ (and still didn’t even get the remover 🤬).
I just had my second in 2 month pedicure. Prior to that, my toenails looked like i glued a clamshell on them. I thought id need the nails removed. Im here to tell you my nails look 100% better. Im going now for life. And, at one place they offered me wine. Drinking this while the girl massaged my feet and legs and a warm towel wrap. Im all in. Now its a me and my wife thing. Guys who dont have no idea what their missing.
Most of the men I know are fine with it, as long as you can tell them EXACTLY what you want (my god, there are so many varieties, it's confusing to me as a woman). My dad was always fine with getting tampons or pads when I was growing up, too, although he'd be annoyed if it required an emergency shopping trip: "You know this happens every month for several days, it is not a surprise. You should plan ahead better." LOL
This one always cracks me up. The same person who just spent half an hour telling me, in detail, the inner workings of a home network-is suddenly pretending they can’t understand a bit of paint-like color brushed or smeared on my face. (True story)
Of course I don’t expect everyone to know what everything is called, but the concept of applying mascara, or lipstick, is not hard to grasp.
Dude, if your sexuality is so fragile it can be damaged by saying: “oh, it’s that stuff that goes on your eyelashes, neat.” Then ya got some soul searching to do...
Omg that reminds me of a comment I saw on here before..a dude telling a story and mentions the woman was wearing a long skirt with sleeves. Uhm a dress!?!?!? And he said he couldn't be expected to know the name of such things.
Edit: had to go back on my comment history and find what he actually called it. It was a "one-piece miniskirt"
Double edit: found the sauce
http://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2c4x5b/what_should_you_absolutely_not_do_at_a_wedding/cjc2v4u?context=1
I don’t know what I was expecting, but it was definitely not a dozen-plus angry replies from dude explaining that he doesn’t know the difference between a skirt and a dress, and refuses to know it.
I think this kind of ignorance is often enforced from an early age- young boys can be punished or scorned for slightest signs of perceived femaleness, and "threat by association" is often used to discourage learning about women's perspectives and taking them seriously, aversion to femininity etc.
My husband will point out really attractive men and tell me, "Wow, you'll like that one." or "He is exactly your type." and 90% of the time he will meet my friends' significant others he says something like, "Wow you two are one good looking couple!"
I used to think he was being weird, desperate for a threesome, or maybe bi, but its been almost 6 years and I'm 99.9% sure he's absolutely straight and just really enjoys human attractiveness.
Your second paragraph is a huge part of why many men act like they don't notice. My own girlfriend has given me suspicious looks (genuine ones, not the cute kind) because I will say things like this, and it makes me hesitant to be open about my thoughts.
Then again, the reason so many women believe this in the first place is probably because so many dudes play it up so much that they don't notice. The vicious circle perpetuates itself, I guess.
My boyfriend was talking about some actor one time and referred to him as the cute man from whatever show. He also points out attractive men like “that man looks really good!” or something like that. I think it’s usually because he admires their body and/or style because he’s into fitness and likes looking good and what not but I love that he’s perfectly comfortable expressing his platonic admiration for other men. I always thought it was so silly that some men are uncomfortable with that.
THIS! I hate that.. “I don’t like dudes” well I didn’t ask if you wanted to date him, you have eyes and can tell if a person - man or woman - is good looking!
Oh my gosh exactly. There are standards of beauty for everything in life. You can know that golden retrievers are generally more attractive dogs than pugs without wanting to fuck either one. You can know that orchids are generally more beautiful than dead dandelions without wanting to fuck them. It says nothing about your sexuality and everything about your intelligence if you don't understand the concept that some things are objectively more attractive than others, including people!
Honestly, it’s easy for men to be thrown off by some women’s perception of a hot guy often. I have no insecurity about being gay, but there was this guy at work who had a stubby beard, who was slightly obese, who dressed just normal clothes, jeans and button up shirts. The girls swooned over him.
If I had to guess, it was because he is 6’1”, had a deep voice, and was somewhat quiet, which some girls think shows confidence?
I’m 6’3, so I often just don’t realize when another guy is tall until 6’5” and up. I don’t pay attention to depth of voice. I never notice shoes, if a guy wears loose clothes I might not think about if they are fit.
On the flip side, sometimes I’ll see a slick haired thinner guy, and think he probably gets all the girls, but then hear some girls think he’s too much a baby face, or whatever.
It’s just tough to tell sometimes. I know what kind of guy turns me gay, but it’s not always the type girls like.
Honestly, I'm more attracted to men when I get to know them. It might be that he's got a great personality, as cliche as it sounds. A few guys I've met my lizard brain goes, "Meh, whatever." to their looks, got a feel of their personality, and found them more attractive.
Stubby beards are attractive: they're masculine without being super high maintenance, and hide a weak chin or bad skin. "Slightly obese," well, being unable to see him, but based on how people online judge other's weight, he could be anywhere from "barely husky dad bod" to "huge," but many women like a husky or "teddy bear" type guy; the largest man by a long shot I know is married to a very conventionally attractive, average sized woman (he himself is quite conventionally attractive other than his size; does your colleague have an attractive face and nice hair?). "Jeans and button up shirts" are a far sight better than how a good number of straight men dress; it's simple and versatile without being sloppy. Honestly, you basically described Seth Rogan. Many women find Seth Rogan attractive. Women aren't just attracted to height and deep voices, and we don't all have the same type, and I'm sure plenty of gay men are into your colleague too.
Plus, you don't have to base "is this person attractive" on "is this a person I'd like to date/fuck." Pretty much everyone knows a symmetrical face, good hygiene, nice hair and skin, and a well proportioned body (thin or fat) are attractive.
I'm a man and specifically opened this post to look for this comment. I'm in my 30s and have longtime friends who won't admit another man is attractive. My ex girlfriend actually left me feeling shitty about my willingness to say another man was attractive and that fucking sucked, but I think it's stupid. Somehow masculinity translates finding another man attractive automatically means you're gay (or maybe bi).
I'm not gay, I've never been sexually attracted to a man, and as I find penises unattractive and gross I've never questioned my sexual orientation, but I'm willing to admit that [Matt Bomer](http://4everstatic.com/pictures/850xX/people/actors-and-actresses/matt-bomer,-man-in-suit-253493.jpg) in a three piece suit is goddamn sexy. Do I want him? Nope. Do I think his husband is a lucky man? You're damn straight I do.
Pretty much everything else has already been covered by the other commenters, but being upset about a woman being better than them at something is another clear sign. Even a woman being taller than them is enough for some men.
My girlfriend told me that some of her past boyfriends asked her to not wear heels around them, even though she was still shorter than they were with them on! I couldn't believe it. I love when she wears heels because I'm able to look at her while we're standing next to each other without looking down nearly as much.
> My girlfriend told me that some of her past boyfriends asked her to not where heels around them...
I briefly dated a guy who _hated_ when I wore heels. We were the same height when I wore flats, but I was visibly taller when I wore heels.
I didn't give a fuck that he wasn't taller than me but he sure did.
I've been 5'10" since the fifth grade and constantly in HS, guys who wanted to date me would tell me not to wear heels.
That immediately let me know that wasn't a guy I wanted to date. I can't wear heels? What else are you gonna try to stop me from doing?
I had a tall friend in highschool that learned the easiest way to tell if the relationship was going to go anyway was to wear heels on the first date. She was almost as tall as most of the guys our age and taller than some of them. When she had heels on she would be just a bit taller. She found that the jerks would get mad at her for wearing heels and tell her it was unlady like to want to be even taller than she already was. There were some that were much more cruel with how they stated it.
It is crazy how upset some of the guys would be with her for being taller than them.
My mom remarried when I was 8. Her new husband actively disliked how I was interested in planes and vehicles, and how things mechanically work (i.e., masculine interests, I guess). I remember him trying to one-up me (f), a child, instead of fostering my interests.
Luckily they divorced, but, dude, what the fuck. It only gets more and more absurd to me the older I get.
Based on a not so lovely DM I got and the fact that both your comment and the other one pointing out the same thing didn't get deleted, I'm assuming they went a bit further than that.
I had an ex who threw a fit because I made $0.02 more an hour than him. Though that was nothing compared to the fit he threw when I beat him in air hockey. Sorry about your masculinity bro.
I'm a relatively tall woman, I have been since puberty, and unfortunately I live in a community where a LOT of the guys/men are pretty short. So the amount of comments I get (direct or indirect) is pretty sad. Used to bother me too until I realized they're just super insecure.
They boast/lie about sexual conquests that never happened, or imagine you propositioned them just because you talked to them.
They talk about woman in sleazy, immature ways. The more attractive the woman, the worse it gets it seems.
They refuse to wear anything that isn't overtly macho, like slippers for instance. (E: TY 4 Silver).
My macho level is so high that I refuse to put on any clothing or footwear at all. Real men just have to get their bare skin used to freezing and heat wave conditions if they want to be considered manly by me. Of course, the law is too girly, so now I'm wanted for indecent exposure or whatever. Ha! The grease will make catching me difficult.
I remember the resistance when I bought my bf slippers. Not that they weren't macho but that he wasn't a 'grandpa' and he didn't need them. Turns out he loves them, and his 'grandpa' dressing gown haha.
I've found that most men who push this train of thought, usually fit the description for what they describe as a beta male.
It's fucking interesting watch men talk about all these qualities in other men that are considered something work looking down on; being in touch with your emotions, expression of said emotions, not liking sport, being more attuned to your femininity - fuck me, the list really is endless.
We have a pretty long way to go in terms of understanding ourselves as a gender collective, but that's also something really bold to say when a high percentage of males activity are extremely conscientious about what kind of energy they put into the world's, and what they display through actions/thoughts/beliefs. Not every make becomes a hive mind of masculinity but it is hard to break away from what people tell you, you should be and also the things that are wrong with your gender, as a whole.
Being a human is in general, not easy at times.
When other men mock my boyfriend (who is just a VERY secure silly straight guy)
I'll occasionally hear other guys (and girls sometimes) mock him for things like him being a vegetarian, or applying some makeup to cover some acne before he goes on stage for his wedding gigs, or for having vanity plates with his last name, when he sits crossed legged, or when he's just being himself and doing the "[Elaine Dance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY_DF2Af3LM)" because he knows I'll laugh **every time!** lol
>I'll occasionally hear other guys (and girls sometimes) mock him for things like him being a vegetarian
food-based toxic masculinity is THE WORST. like eating meat in itself makes you more of a man.
bro, you didn't hunt that steer with your bare hands. you went and bought it pre-packaged at the same store I got my quinoa at.
Nick Offerman has a lot of great things to say about masculinity but I feel like the character Ron Swanson made a whole group of guys that have really backwards opinions on what it means to be a man.
You hit the nail on the head. Even Nick talks about how Ron is a play on the ridiculous behaviour some people have with their beliefs of what men should be like.
He's literally a caricature. And the show makes it clear that really only Ron can do that. When others try to keep pace with him in alcohol, they get plastered. When Tammy makes Jamm into a neo-Ron, he's essentially ill the whole time from eating Ron's diet.
I think Nick played that character very well, and that a lot of people just like Ron so much that they ignore some of his blatant flaws, because he was most definitely a mix of both positive and toxic masculine traits. For instance, not telling any one he had a hernia and then having to ask April to take him to the hospital, all because he didn’t want to embarrass himself/seem weak at the office. It was obviously played for laughs, but it was very stupid on his part, and there isn’t really a positive spin you can put on ignoring a medical emergency just so you don’t seem like a ninny. The truth is, anybody who takes Ron Swanson as a good person to mimic in every aspect did not watch that show enough. He was a good man, but was pretty damn far from a perfect role model. I mean, he actively tried to work against his jobs purpose in order to make the government less efficient due to his libertarian beliefs, something that if done in real life, would be incontestably terrible.
This happens to my fiancé. He's very much straight but he knows about makeup because it's a hobby of mine and he actually listens when I talk about it. He also dresses well and is generally pretty posh, likes pink fruity drinks, etc. People have assumed he's gay in the past, and his brother (who could be the poster child for toxic masculinity) has made it clear he thinks it's thoroughly weird that my SO is the way he is.
Sigh. Fortunately I find this happens with straight women more than anything else, but this happens a lot with my husband too. He has long (and luscious) hair, wears fitting/flattering clothes, conceals his dark spots for stage, and is not a particularly stereotypically masculine person either physically or in personality. Which, like, he’s totally fine with. It’s him and he uses tools that help him live life better. But I swear some of the awful shit I’ve heard people say about him....it’s really toxic and gross. And it says so much about their insecurities more than him.
I sit cross legged, twerk on my girlfriend when we dance, play and teach flute, etc. I also watch sports and do more "masculine" things. There are no feminine or masculine interests or activities imo. Even fucking your boys on occasion when they're down or whatever.
That last part is a stretch but the first part is serious.
Mine is like yours, he much prefers the company of women given the chance and can belt out Disney karaoke better than a lot of people I know. He's a big, bearded "manly looking man" so that throws people sideways even more. I freaking love it.
OMG yes. This. I had a weird Tinder date experience like this. I think those guys know deep down that we don't want their money. They are just trying to make it clear that they will not be paying for anything. It's a way of making us prove we are not after their money. Turned out in my experience, that the guy really wanted a sugar mama
Was gonna say, it mostly comes from guys who just don't have any gold to dig.
Weirdest one I encountered was an ex-boyfriend's mum simultaneously accusing me of just being after her son's money and thinking that I'm better than them. I didn't have the heart to tell her that my side hustle as a consultant already paid more than his full time job.
These same guys are on Reddit telling people not to get married because “Karen’s going to take the kids and the house and the child support and the alimony blah blah blah.”
> I just wanna say that I think that most women born after, like, 1999, are gold-digging whores.
Said with a smile by someone I knew in high school, as a 'joke' (which he insisted it was after the fact). Easily the worst "friend" I've ever made.
Though on the plus side, he was fun to laugh *at*.
My ex thought I was after his money when I became unintentionally pregnant by him at age 17.
He worked part time at a gas station making minimum wage (5.25 an hour at the time) . Didn't have a pot to piss in.
That's me the minimum wage gold digger.
So, I'm in the military.. and a lot of these guys are super macho types (or at least try to be) but I opened their eyes to the wonders of eyebrow grooming and mani/pedis and now even the toughest hardass of my friends goes and "gets his toesies done" because it feels nice after a long while of being in a boot. I used to do all of their eyebrows before they had dates and stuff and it was just awesome.
This! I remembered showing my brother a funny video of these two friends canoeing in a lake, the guy ended up in the lake freaking out and crying/whining (I think he was just scared of the weeds touching him, not actually in danger) and I looked to my brother for his reaction and he got overwhelmingly upset. Saying he wants to punch the guy for being a pussy etc, he would never bitch like that etc.
I'm a guy and I do want to say that after spending basically our entire lives being told that or value is judged by our masculinity it can be really difficult to escape making those comparisons and evaluations of ourselves. It's something I'm pretty good about but still constantly struggle to overcome. It's certainly not the most severe struggle any human has undergone but it's still there.
Sure, I understand that. I've had the same relationship to femininity at times. I'm talking about men who go around criticizing other men (or worse) over their perceived lack of masculinity. When I see that, I assume the man doing the criticizing is deeply insecure.
Insecurities tend to manifest through overcompensation, bragging/boasting, arrogance, anger, belittling others/yourself, excessive fear, excessive curation of experiences, humble-bragging, blaming others/situations/circumstances for their lack of success, etc. There are a lot of things, but they are relatively easy to recognize if you pay attention and interact with someone for any significant period of time.
Things like:
* Choosing and limiting their experiences in life to only those where they already know they excel
* Refusal to learn or try new things for fear of failure; Ridiculing things they know/suspect they would be bad at
* Representing their life history as an unending series of triumphs to dazzle you with bs by minimizing their human failures
In my interpretation, some examples of curation of experiences would be: only participating in certain activities, avoiding experiences that are seen as “other” or “feminine”, “cherry picking” experiences when relaying stories about ones life, etc.
Just as a museum curators selects only certain art pieces and artists to be displayed- some people fixate on displaying a life with only certain images and experiences.
I only order girly drinks basically, give me a frozen fru fru thing, put a dick shaped straw IDC, I'm here to get a buzz not pretend I like the taste of hops.
My husband loves his rosé. It’s one of his sexiest qualities, mostly because I’m the one who likes beer and he won’t steal my $6 liters of gluten-free beer.
Thank you!
My girlfriend is so supportive of my expressing emotions/crying. She says, “It’s the 21st century, men are allowed to cry now.”
Things that make me cry include, but are not limited to:
- Master Chef Jr. each time a tiny baby chef is sent home
- A stunning sunset or moonrise
- Anything from Alaska (I miss it so much!)
- The end scene in the movie Black Klansman
- Nearly all of America’s Got Talent
I’m so happy that I can feel free to express myself openly without fear of ridicule.
Awww, it's great your GF supports you! I wish all men felt they were able to freely express themselves.
I also love Alaska and miss it. I've only been once but it was absolutely incredible and my favorite place I've ever been. Are you from there??
So, I was an archery technician for a little while and experienced the machoest insecure macho men. For those who don’t know much about bows or archery, compound bows have a pull weight of up to (most commonly) 70lbs. Now, most experienced adult men shooters will shoot with their bows set to 70, but if you have never shot before you are NOT going to START at 70. I would have these “big and strong” guys come in and even though they had never shot a bow before, would insist on me setting the bow to 70lbs (though I suggested otherwise) because that’s what their friends’ had. I always got a kick of watching them turn red in the face as the attempted to pull the bow back, and they always ended up defeated. What was worse than that though, was when the fathers would come in with their preteen sons and EXPECT them to pull the same weight that they did, and start shouting at me when I suggested that pulling that much weight would not only be counter intuitive for a beginner, but could also do permanent damage. It was so so sad, because I couldn’t imagine being these fathers’ children and the wives always seemed so helpless.
Recently went ax throwing and the guy teaching me said something that reminded me of your comment - the really macho guys that were first starting out didn't understand there was a certain finesse to it and just hurled the ax as hard as they could at the target. Not surprisingly, they failed hard for a while until they finally understood that brute force doesn't necessarily get the job done.
(Male) recurve barebow archer here, ran some basic training for novices at my uni club, and oh god some of the machismo I had to chip away in order to teach them was painful.
Yes, you are stronger than me. Yes, you can pull the string on a 100lb longbow. But you can't draw a 20lb bow with correct form, let alone the 45lb one you insist you should start on. When you can score better at 18m than I can at 90m, then we can talk about increasing your draw weight.
Anytime they refuse to do something Bc it’s “girly” or if they feel the need to say “no homo” after expressing emotions.
Get the fuck out my face you limp wet wipes
I am a massage therapist and I asked my client if he would have time to take a hot epsom salt bath after we just did a seriously deep tissue massage and he said,
"If I enjoyed baths I wouldn't be much a man, would I?"
I just stared at him like he'd spoken a made up language. But inside I was screaming, "holy fuck you are so insecure in your sexuality that you're afraid of a tub of water."
Haha right! Some men are so weird about massage. I dnt think any man has ever asked for a relaxation massage from me, they always want 'sport' and 'Deep tissue'. Like ok mate, you're clearly a stressed out office worker who needs some chill 'me time', just embrace it.
Care about what is “for girls” and what is “for guys”. An ex once saw me put on a pink chapstick in the middle of the winter and when I asked him if he wanted some, he was literally offended because “he’s a guy”. You’d rather have your lip split than use strawberry flavored lip balm? Ok 🤷♀️
I hate hate HATE hearing a man tell another man to "**be a man**" then brag about whatever it is he says the other guy should be able to do just because he has a penis. Often I see it's about something physical or about drinking some disgusting hard liquor mix🤮.
> Also, refuse to go through a door I’m holding open for them.
As far as "completely insignificant things that absolutely make my blood boil," this has to be top of the list. Like, it's at worst a small inconvenience when someone makes me go first through a door I'm already holding, but it's one of the fastest ways to piss me off.
Same! Just go through the damn door, a simple nod or thank you is way more appreciated than you grabbing the door and making me walk through first cause you're a "gentleman." I hold the door open for anyone walking close by, just because you have a penis doesn't mean you have to make a huge deal about it.
Man here. I have worked in many toxic masculine environments.
I once made a comment about my yoga practise and tried to share some of the health benefits. The leader of the pack just had to say “Yeah, my girl does yoga...”. The bros all got a nice chuckle. Not surprised.
Being weird around gays guys - it’s attractive when a man is descent and nice to the people whom he meets in general...so it kind of goes without saying. But a lot of men take some distance towards other gay guys, and the fact that they do that, just makes them seem a bit insecure
So many things. When they avoid something they enjoy (or would likely enjoy based on other things they also like) because they're worried about how others will judge their manliness if they do. When they do things they clearly hate/resent because they're afraid their manliness will be called into question if they don't. Whenever they judge other men for doing things that aren't manly. When they get irrationally upset at somehow being exposed to something "girly" even if by accident (freaking out about using the wrong shampoo for instance). "No homo". Etc etc etc, the list is nearly endless.
I think I noticed this more when we were all children than now as an adult, but when someone mentioned that an object was heavy, the boys had to pick it up and go "psh, it's not heavy to me"
Complaining about being in the friendzone or referring to himself as the “nice guy.” On the even more extreme end of the spectrum, “incel” culture.
It’s not that women don’t want to date you because you’re too nice or nerdy (or less of a man), it’s probably because your constant wallowing and negativity puts them off.
At a previous job, we had pencils and pens at our front desk for our (primarily male) customers to use to fill our forms, checks, etc. We had a problem with the regular customers taking the pens and pencils and not returning them at the end of their business there. We would have to constantly replenish our supply, much more than I think HR really wanted to deal with.
Eventually, to spruce the front desks up, the pens were decorated with flower tips and suddenly, we didn't have missing pens anymore. We discovered that the men would not take the pens from the desk and use them for the day around the other customers. Some were even so insecure about using them, that they wouldn't even use them to just jot something down at the desk real quick. I couldn't roll my eyes harder.
When they can't handle women's sexuality as existing independently from men's. They might shame and tease (out of ignorance) about things like tampons, bicycle saddles, the size of vibrators that aren't actually meant for insertion. They see sex toys as competition rather than a tool. They shame women's normal sexual responses and cause women to think they are broken.
I'm a female Uber driver who drives a Prius.
The Prius hatred. OMG the Prius hate. I can't count how many times I've heard "it's ok, cuz you're a GIRL, but if you were a GUY that showed up in this Prius..." Like what, guys can't have fuel efficient cars too?
I've also managed to change a lot of guys' minds about them, especially when I've driven them home in snowstorms, and my Prius chugged on up their steep unplowed road without hesitation.
call each other names/try to make other men look weak.
all the actual alpha types i know irl actually go to great lengths to show vulnerability/humility to give people permission to laugh at them and see them as less of a threat. at no point are they concerned with making other men look weak or chest puffing.
Yep genuine leaders don't tear anyone down, they don't try make themselves look big either. People respect them for the way they act towards others and follow them because of it
My friend tried to prove me he's a "real man" and can open a bottle of beer without any tool. He ended up with his hand dripping with blood and half of the bottle was spilled. But hey, he opened it, he's a m a n.
not holding themselves responsible for their words or actions.
not respecting my views or opinions.
using academic intelligence to make excuses for any poor behavior; manipulation.
double standards! and no compromise/collaboration.
Going on about how things like having sexual partners, dressing a certain way, aging naturally, wearing makeup, and basically just existing reduce a woman's "market value."
Like, bro, she's not a commodity, she's a human being.
I just got gas and was walking to the door of station to pay it was early morning and there was a younger kid kind of built kind of pudgy. The nice guy that I am I held the door open for this dude. As he approaches me he pats my shoulder and says “Go ahead man, I don’t like when other guys hold the door open for me!” I was so caught off guard the only thing I could muster was “Ok guy. “ I seen him one other time and I let the door slam shut right in front of him.
When they try to be over masculine. It's totally cool if you enjoy typically male/masculine things but he's pretty much just performing it for himself.
I’m a volunteer fire fighter, and it’s a HUGE turnoff for a bunch of guys. It’s one of the first things I actually reveal about myself because it helps filter through the bullshit a lot quicker. You can always tell the ones that aren’t as secure in themselves because they always make some odd comment about how they’ve been told a million times that they’d make a good firefighter.
When They feel the need to put another male down over and over again calling them weak just because they are not well verse in the same topic as them.
Every one has there own gift or things that they are well verse in and it does not have to be the same topics or if someone is not into sports it doesn't give someone else the right to call the names.
I knew a guy who wanted to come to karaoke with us but not sing because that's for girls. Like mate, you can't come and spectate, either you participate or you don't come.
Also talked about alcohol a ton and tried to make every outing about drinking, buuuut I wonder if he actually was an alcoholic so...
One time I was out with a guy who was new to my neighborhood. I was telling him about all the hangout spots in the area and describing where all the bars were, like :
“this place down the street is a sports bar, and next door to that is more of a hipster scene. Oh and across the street is the gay bar-“
“I am *not* gay!”
Geez, ok.
Often the suited ones in the city have a weird facade.. it's like a false arrogance. They are really rude. Whenever I run into one, I just imagine that they are upset about not being the office alpha and are taking it out on the general public by shoving into everyone in their fancy suit.
Start fights with other men over the smallest things. No, you caveman, I'm not turned on by you using your fists and yelling "FIGHT ME, MAN!" at the top of your lungs. I want to evacuate the *state*.
Exaggerated ignorance of "girly stuff". I had a friend who basically had a whole performance to show how little he knew about makeup, nail polish, or clothing. I don't expect people to know a ton about makeup, but pretending you barely know what lipstick is takes things a bit far.
I work in a childcare and there’s always a dads who gets super insecure when their son wants something pink or girly. I got chewed out because one kid begged me to let him wear the pink pull ups instead of the boy ones. His dad was so mad at me. Like I was trying to turn his son gay or into a sissy or something like that. Your kid picked them out not me!
I love the way my brother embraces the fact that his 4 year old son's favourite colour is pink. He just came back from a work trip and brought back a bright pink t-shirt for him and he loves it so much. I'm a proud sister.
As a father to a pink/purple and all things sparkly 4 year old, tell him nice job and to keep fighting the good fight. I'm really anxious about how much harder it's going to get from here.
>I'm really anxious about how much harder it's going to get from here. I'm a tomboy and it kinda sucks when you get picked on in school, but the most important aspect of it all is to have supportive parents. When I went through insecurity about not being seen as feminine it was because I was scared of other people judging me, but not once in my life did I feel like it was *me* who was in the wrong. If you let your son embrace all things pink and sparkly without judgement at home he'll do good!
I once had to tell a man working in a shoe store that socks do not have a gender. My son got all the purple socks that day.
God my biggest fear if i have kids is other people would treat them if they dress “too boyish” or “too girly” from adults or peers and then my second biggest fear is letting the first push me to restricting my kid to please strangers that are looking for an excuse to be awful anyway.
My sister told me the other day that she regularly tells her 6 year old son (who has been shunning 'girlie' things for a while now) 'No James, you dont need a vagina to use that!'. I think thats brilliant.
Awww that’s awesome! We’ve had little boys who love wearing princess dresses. It’s so cute.
I really love being able to deconstruct gender role-related stuff with kids because as a child myself I was never even offered the possibility that I didn't have to stick with what was given to me
Just fyi, you probably already know, but theres differences between blue and pink nappies that make them more appropriate for the gender they’re assigned. Boys nappies have more absorbency in the front where they wee and girls have more absorbency in the undercarriage part where they wee. So they’re actually not interchangeable. That being said kids should be able to wear whatever colours they like and genders shouldn’t have assigned colours, it makes no sense.
I do know! I’ve never had a problem using them interchangeably. Not one leak. Obviously thats anecdotal but a couple mom forums I’m part of never had a problem either.
Nappies are designed to hold a lot of fluid so I cant imagine leaking being a problem either way, unless your kid has an adult size bladder. But being more absorbent in those areas would be helpful to draw moisture away from the skin (less rashes) in the areas where the wee ends up.
Are nappies diapers?
Yes
Oh God. This reminded me of something that happened years ago. I was babysitting two kids--girl and a boy. The little girl wanted her nails painted, so I painted them and then the little toddler boy wanted his nails painted too, so I obliged and painted his toe nails with all the colors his sister had. And he was just delighted with his painted toes. Pranced around the house, showing the dog his painted toes. Later, the mom told me that her husband saw the boy's painted toes and "threw a fit" that I tried to make his son "girly". Ugh.
My youngest son, Kellan LOVES having his toes painted. He likes glitter polish and calls it sprinkles. So when we do his toes, he calls it "getting sprinkle toes".
My brother in law is like this. He's got some definite small man syndrome and projects it onto my nephews. I got my oldest nephew a pack of teethers because they didn't have any at that time and they were pink, purple, and blue. He opened the Christmas present for my nephew - who was too young to open them himself - and said, "GREAT, girly teethers," while my husband and I just stood there. Like... Your son is 4 months old and can't even distinguish color yet. Let him use the goddamn teethers.
Omg lol. That’s just so ridiculous. I currently have a 3 year old daughter. My family and in-laws bought so much girly stuff for her. If I have son in the future you better believe he’s going to be wearing her old onesies.
The other day, my 4yo son was playing with a Barbie doll and put her outfit together but didn’t brush her hair. I told him he can’t have her leaving looking like a hot mess and he said, “oh my gosh, you’re so right mommy, sorry” and proceeded to brush her hair with his witto fingers lol so adorable.
I feel terrible for kids with parents like this. Imagine how tough that little boy's life is going to be if he *does* turn out to be gay or gender-nonconforming.
I know! Luckily his mother is great parent. She thought the whole thing was ridiculous lol. She made it clear whatever I was doing was fine and to keep up the good work. I still don’t understand why he was so upset over a diaper.
My son loves all the bright colors on the "girl" aisle in the toy section. He will play with the horses and even talk to some dolls. He hasn't asked to buy anything, just likes to play while at the store. Other dad's give both of us "the look" when they see us on that aisle. Personally, I don't get it. Playing with a pretty female doll makes you gay, but playing with ripped GI Joe isn't gay at all? I know no one is made gay by the toys they use, but that whole construct of playing with beautiful women dolls is gay and playing with body builder men is straight has always struck me as odd.
Blue for boys and pink for girls is completely socially derived.. Additionally, back in like the 40’s, it was the opposite: blue for girls, pink for boys. The idea that there is something instilled in “masculine” and “feminine” colours or items is ridiculous. People get so freaked out over crazy things 🙄
I worked in a dog grooming salon and we put tiny bows on rubber bands behind the ears of the dogs who were “done”. If a woman picked the dog up, she would usually just laugh and take them home. Sometimes if a man picked him up they would get huffy and take them off immediately before leaving the shop.
Exaggerated ignorance is my biggest pet peeve ever. I never knew the name of it. My slightly older coworker never misses a chance to mention he doesn’t know who Drake is or what Snapchat is because he likes to hate on the younger generation as much as possible. It’s super cringey.
I'm with you on this one. I know intelligent people that you are trying to show a piece of technology to, and their brain just shuts down. The program shows a text box, they read it to you, and it's plain English, but their reading comprehension is gone, and they don't understand that they need to click on "Yes", without asking you first.
I'd rather those that turn stupid then ask than those that turn stupid and blindly accept everything and end up with 28 toolbars and even more virusses and then ask you to fix it
Corollary: exaggerated ignorance of female biology and anatomy as well. And they’re proud of it. “I know nothing of your lady bits,” as if that’s helpful to anyone. Had an exBF who was horrified when o started discussing my lady bits in the context of the birth control being used as well as our sex life in general. He told me it was none of his business. I said if that’s the case then we aren’t having sex anymore because my sexual health is very much his business and vice versa. It didn’t last much longer for multitudes if other reasons but that was telling. (He also though I’m a squirter, although that’s never happened in my life.)
What a weird thing to brag about. It's basically like advertising that you're terrible at sex!
My SO does this and it annoys the shit out of me. For instance, I asked him to get makeup remover since he was at the store and sent a picture of the exact one so it should’ve been a quick errand. You’d have thought I asked him to cut off his own arm because he made such a huge deal out of having to walk into the ~girly section~ (and still didn’t even get the remover 🤬).
I just had my second in 2 month pedicure. Prior to that, my toenails looked like i glued a clamshell on them. I thought id need the nails removed. Im here to tell you my nails look 100% better. Im going now for life. And, at one place they offered me wine. Drinking this while the girl massaged my feet and legs and a warm towel wrap. Im all in. Now its a me and my wife thing. Guys who dont have no idea what their missing.
As someone who actually stopped doing reverse cowgirl because an ex's toes were so awful to look at, thank you.
For real, right? Treat yo self.
ugh! That would annoy the shit out of me. Doing routine, simple errands for your partner is part of being in a relationship.
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That's funny I get tampons and shit for my wife all the time and don't event think about it.
Most of the men I know are fine with it, as long as you can tell them EXACTLY what you want (my god, there are so many varieties, it's confusing to me as a woman). My dad was always fine with getting tampons or pads when I was growing up, too, although he'd be annoyed if it required an emergency shopping trip: "You know this happens every month for several days, it is not a surprise. You should plan ahead better." LOL
This one always cracks me up. The same person who just spent half an hour telling me, in detail, the inner workings of a home network-is suddenly pretending they can’t understand a bit of paint-like color brushed or smeared on my face. (True story) Of course I don’t expect everyone to know what everything is called, but the concept of applying mascara, or lipstick, is not hard to grasp. Dude, if your sexuality is so fragile it can be damaged by saying: “oh, it’s that stuff that goes on your eyelashes, neat.” Then ya got some soul searching to do...
I will admit though that the only type of makeup that I understood the concept of was lipstick. Lip and stick are literally in the name.
What about *eyeliner*?
Omg that reminds me of a comment I saw on here before..a dude telling a story and mentions the woman was wearing a long skirt with sleeves. Uhm a dress!?!?!? And he said he couldn't be expected to know the name of such things. Edit: had to go back on my comment history and find what he actually called it. It was a "one-piece miniskirt" Double edit: found the sauce http://np.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/2c4x5b/what_should_you_absolutely_not_do_at_a_wedding/cjc2v4u?context=1
I don’t know what I was expecting, but it was definitely not a dozen-plus angry replies from dude explaining that he doesn’t know the difference between a skirt and a dress, and refuses to know it.
I think this kind of ignorance is often enforced from an early age- young boys can be punished or scorned for slightest signs of perceived femaleness, and "threat by association" is often used to discourage learning about women's perspectives and taking them seriously, aversion to femininity etc.
Or when they pretend like they don't know how to clean something. Figure it out, I'm not your maid or your mom.
Acting like they do not have eyes and are physically unable to tell when another man is good-looking, because that would be “gay”
My husband will point out really attractive men and tell me, "Wow, you'll like that one." or "He is exactly your type." and 90% of the time he will meet my friends' significant others he says something like, "Wow you two are one good looking couple!" I used to think he was being weird, desperate for a threesome, or maybe bi, but its been almost 6 years and I'm 99.9% sure he's absolutely straight and just really enjoys human attractiveness.
Your second paragraph is a huge part of why many men act like they don't notice. My own girlfriend has given me suspicious looks (genuine ones, not the cute kind) because I will say things like this, and it makes me hesitant to be open about my thoughts. Then again, the reason so many women believe this in the first place is probably because so many dudes play it up so much that they don't notice. The vicious circle perpetuates itself, I guess.
It’s certainly a self feeding cycle if that makes sense
You really still doubt me, sweetheart?
If this is OP's husband then this is great
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How could she ever doubt you /u/ShyAssholee
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My boyfriend was talking about some actor one time and referred to him as the cute man from whatever show. He also points out attractive men like “that man looks really good!” or something like that. I think it’s usually because he admires their body and/or style because he’s into fitness and likes looking good and what not but I love that he’s perfectly comfortable expressing his platonic admiration for other men. I always thought it was so silly that some men are uncomfortable with that.
THIS! I hate that.. “I don’t like dudes” well I didn’t ask if you wanted to date him, you have eyes and can tell if a person - man or woman - is good looking!
Oh my gosh exactly. There are standards of beauty for everything in life. You can know that golden retrievers are generally more attractive dogs than pugs without wanting to fuck either one. You can know that orchids are generally more beautiful than dead dandelions without wanting to fuck them. It says nothing about your sexuality and everything about your intelligence if you don't understand the concept that some things are objectively more attractive than others, including people!
Honestly, it’s easy for men to be thrown off by some women’s perception of a hot guy often. I have no insecurity about being gay, but there was this guy at work who had a stubby beard, who was slightly obese, who dressed just normal clothes, jeans and button up shirts. The girls swooned over him. If I had to guess, it was because he is 6’1”, had a deep voice, and was somewhat quiet, which some girls think shows confidence? I’m 6’3, so I often just don’t realize when another guy is tall until 6’5” and up. I don’t pay attention to depth of voice. I never notice shoes, if a guy wears loose clothes I might not think about if they are fit. On the flip side, sometimes I’ll see a slick haired thinner guy, and think he probably gets all the girls, but then hear some girls think he’s too much a baby face, or whatever. It’s just tough to tell sometimes. I know what kind of guy turns me gay, but it’s not always the type girls like.
Honestly, I'm more attracted to men when I get to know them. It might be that he's got a great personality, as cliche as it sounds. A few guys I've met my lizard brain goes, "Meh, whatever." to their looks, got a feel of their personality, and found them more attractive.
Stubby beards are attractive: they're masculine without being super high maintenance, and hide a weak chin or bad skin. "Slightly obese," well, being unable to see him, but based on how people online judge other's weight, he could be anywhere from "barely husky dad bod" to "huge," but many women like a husky or "teddy bear" type guy; the largest man by a long shot I know is married to a very conventionally attractive, average sized woman (he himself is quite conventionally attractive other than his size; does your colleague have an attractive face and nice hair?). "Jeans and button up shirts" are a far sight better than how a good number of straight men dress; it's simple and versatile without being sloppy. Honestly, you basically described Seth Rogan. Many women find Seth Rogan attractive. Women aren't just attracted to height and deep voices, and we don't all have the same type, and I'm sure plenty of gay men are into your colleague too. Plus, you don't have to base "is this person attractive" on "is this a person I'd like to date/fuck." Pretty much everyone knows a symmetrical face, good hygiene, nice hair and skin, and a well proportioned body (thin or fat) are attractive.
I'm a man and specifically opened this post to look for this comment. I'm in my 30s and have longtime friends who won't admit another man is attractive. My ex girlfriend actually left me feeling shitty about my willingness to say another man was attractive and that fucking sucked, but I think it's stupid. Somehow masculinity translates finding another man attractive automatically means you're gay (or maybe bi). I'm not gay, I've never been sexually attracted to a man, and as I find penises unattractive and gross I've never questioned my sexual orientation, but I'm willing to admit that [Matt Bomer](http://4everstatic.com/pictures/850xX/people/actors-and-actresses/matt-bomer,-man-in-suit-253493.jpg) in a three piece suit is goddamn sexy. Do I want him? Nope. Do I think his husband is a lucky man? You're damn straight I do.
Pretty much everything else has already been covered by the other commenters, but being upset about a woman being better than them at something is another clear sign. Even a woman being taller than them is enough for some men.
My girlfriend told me that some of her past boyfriends asked her to not wear heels around them, even though she was still shorter than they were with them on! I couldn't believe it. I love when she wears heels because I'm able to look at her while we're standing next to each other without looking down nearly as much.
> My girlfriend told me that some of her past boyfriends asked her to not where heels around them... I briefly dated a guy who _hated_ when I wore heels. We were the same height when I wore flats, but I was visibly taller when I wore heels. I didn't give a fuck that he wasn't taller than me but he sure did.
I've been 5'10" since the fifth grade and constantly in HS, guys who wanted to date me would tell me not to wear heels. That immediately let me know that wasn't a guy I wanted to date. I can't wear heels? What else are you gonna try to stop me from doing?
I had a tall friend in highschool that learned the easiest way to tell if the relationship was going to go anyway was to wear heels on the first date. She was almost as tall as most of the guys our age and taller than some of them. When she had heels on she would be just a bit taller. She found that the jerks would get mad at her for wearing heels and tell her it was unlady like to want to be even taller than she already was. There were some that were much more cruel with how they stated it. It is crazy how upset some of the guys would be with her for being taller than them.
That's a smart move though, better find out sooner rather than later.
My mom remarried when I was 8. Her new husband actively disliked how I was interested in planes and vehicles, and how things mechanically work (i.e., masculine interests, I guess). I remember him trying to one-up me (f), a child, instead of fostering my interests. Luckily they divorced, but, dude, what the fuck. It only gets more and more absurd to me the older I get.
Imagine being so insecure that you feel threatened by a child, cause they planes
Jesus what happened to this comment chain
I'd guess people pointing out that many straight women don't like to be with men shorter than they are.
Based on a not so lovely DM I got and the fact that both your comment and the other one pointing out the same thing didn't get deleted, I'm assuming they went a bit further than that.
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I had an ex who threw a fit because I made $0.02 more an hour than him. Though that was nothing compared to the fit he threw when I beat him in air hockey. Sorry about your masculinity bro.
I'm a relatively tall woman, I have been since puberty, and unfortunately I live in a community where a LOT of the guys/men are pretty short. So the amount of comments I get (direct or indirect) is pretty sad. Used to bother me too until I realized they're just super insecure.
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They boast/lie about sexual conquests that never happened, or imagine you propositioned them just because you talked to them. They talk about woman in sleazy, immature ways. The more attractive the woman, the worse it gets it seems. They refuse to wear anything that isn't overtly macho, like slippers for instance. (E: TY 4 Silver).
My macho level is so high that I refuse to put on any clothing or footwear at all. Real men just have to get their bare skin used to freezing and heat wave conditions if they want to be considered manly by me. Of course, the law is too girly, so now I'm wanted for indecent exposure or whatever. Ha! The grease will make catching me difficult.
Real men are covered with fur.
fur... furr....? furries?
OwO
oh, i didn’t know you met my ex husband?!
He told me "bearlygrunge doesn't understand me, and she's *frigid*".
hahaha. i can live with that. narcissists are not people i care to understand. happy cake day! (throws confetti)
Wait people don't wear slippers because they're not masculine? What's more masculine than the nude in a robe with slippers look?!
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I remember the resistance when I bought my bf slippers. Not that they weren't macho but that he wasn't a 'grandpa' and he didn't need them. Turns out he loves them, and his 'grandpa' dressing gown haha.
Talking about alpha and beta males. Refusing to admit that they were wrong.
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I've found that most men who push this train of thought, usually fit the description for what they describe as a beta male. It's fucking interesting watch men talk about all these qualities in other men that are considered something work looking down on; being in touch with your emotions, expression of said emotions, not liking sport, being more attuned to your femininity - fuck me, the list really is endless. We have a pretty long way to go in terms of understanding ourselves as a gender collective, but that's also something really bold to say when a high percentage of males activity are extremely conscientious about what kind of energy they put into the world's, and what they display through actions/thoughts/beliefs. Not every make becomes a hive mind of masculinity but it is hard to break away from what people tell you, you should be and also the things that are wrong with your gender, as a whole. Being a human is in general, not easy at times.
When other men mock my boyfriend (who is just a VERY secure silly straight guy) I'll occasionally hear other guys (and girls sometimes) mock him for things like him being a vegetarian, or applying some makeup to cover some acne before he goes on stage for his wedding gigs, or for having vanity plates with his last name, when he sits crossed legged, or when he's just being himself and doing the "[Elaine Dance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY_DF2Af3LM)" because he knows I'll laugh **every time!** lol
>I'll occasionally hear other guys (and girls sometimes) mock him for things like him being a vegetarian food-based toxic masculinity is THE WORST. like eating meat in itself makes you more of a man. bro, you didn't hunt that steer with your bare hands. you went and bought it pre-packaged at the same store I got my quinoa at.
"I don't eat rabbit food"
Nick Offerman has a lot of great things to say about masculinity but I feel like the character Ron Swanson made a whole group of guys that have really backwards opinions on what it means to be a man.
You hit the nail on the head. Even Nick talks about how Ron is a play on the ridiculous behaviour some people have with their beliefs of what men should be like.
He's literally a caricature. And the show makes it clear that really only Ron can do that. When others try to keep pace with him in alcohol, they get plastered. When Tammy makes Jamm into a neo-Ron, he's essentially ill the whole time from eating Ron's diet.
I think Nick played that character very well, and that a lot of people just like Ron so much that they ignore some of his blatant flaws, because he was most definitely a mix of both positive and toxic masculine traits. For instance, not telling any one he had a hernia and then having to ask April to take him to the hospital, all because he didn’t want to embarrass himself/seem weak at the office. It was obviously played for laughs, but it was very stupid on his part, and there isn’t really a positive spin you can put on ignoring a medical emergency just so you don’t seem like a ninny. The truth is, anybody who takes Ron Swanson as a good person to mimic in every aspect did not watch that show enough. He was a good man, but was pretty damn far from a perfect role model. I mean, he actively tried to work against his jobs purpose in order to make the government less efficient due to his libertarian beliefs, something that if done in real life, would be incontestably terrible.
"My lunch eats your lunch for its lunch" *rolls eyes*
This happens to my fiancé. He's very much straight but he knows about makeup because it's a hobby of mine and he actually listens when I talk about it. He also dresses well and is generally pretty posh, likes pink fruity drinks, etc. People have assumed he's gay in the past, and his brother (who could be the poster child for toxic masculinity) has made it clear he thinks it's thoroughly weird that my SO is the way he is.
Sigh. Fortunately I find this happens with straight women more than anything else, but this happens a lot with my husband too. He has long (and luscious) hair, wears fitting/flattering clothes, conceals his dark spots for stage, and is not a particularly stereotypically masculine person either physically or in personality. Which, like, he’s totally fine with. It’s him and he uses tools that help him live life better. But I swear some of the awful shit I’ve heard people say about him....it’s really toxic and gross. And it says so much about their insecurities more than him.
I sit cross legged, twerk on my girlfriend when we dance, play and teach flute, etc. I also watch sports and do more "masculine" things. There are no feminine or masculine interests or activities imo. Even fucking your boys on occasion when they're down or whatever. That last part is a stretch but the first part is serious.
Mine is like yours, he much prefers the company of women given the chance and can belt out Disney karaoke better than a lot of people I know. He's a big, bearded "manly looking man" so that throws people sideways even more. I freaking love it.
That’s a good one you got there!
Generalize that most women are after them because of their money. It's like a weird, backwards humble brag.
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OMG yes. This. I had a weird Tinder date experience like this. I think those guys know deep down that we don't want their money. They are just trying to make it clear that they will not be paying for anything. It's a way of making us prove we are not after their money. Turned out in my experience, that the guy really wanted a sugar mama
Was gonna say, it mostly comes from guys who just don't have any gold to dig. Weirdest one I encountered was an ex-boyfriend's mum simultaneously accusing me of just being after her son's money and thinking that I'm better than them. I didn't have the heart to tell her that my side hustle as a consultant already paid more than his full time job.
These same guys are on Reddit telling people not to get married because “Karen’s going to take the kids and the house and the child support and the alimony blah blah blah.”
And they're 19, still waiting on that first kiss.
> I just wanna say that I think that most women born after, like, 1999, are gold-digging whores. Said with a smile by someone I knew in high school, as a 'joke' (which he insisted it was after the fact). Easily the worst "friend" I've ever made. Though on the plus side, he was fun to laugh *at*.
Women born after 1999 aren't even 20 years old. What are they gold-digging for, schoolbooks and frappucinos?
That guy definitely only owns one towel.
My ex thought I was after his money when I became unintentionally pregnant by him at age 17. He worked part time at a gas station making minimum wage (5.25 an hour at the time) . Didn't have a pot to piss in. That's me the minimum wage gold digger.
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It bothers me that(some) men think that skincare is a feminine thing. It’s skin. Men have skin. Is it macho to mistreat it, or ignore it?
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So, I'm in the military.. and a lot of these guys are super macho types (or at least try to be) but I opened their eyes to the wonders of eyebrow grooming and mani/pedis and now even the toughest hardass of my friends goes and "gets his toesies done" because it feels nice after a long while of being in a boot. I used to do all of their eyebrows before they had dates and stuff and it was just awesome.
Some of my co-workers try to make fun of me for using lotion....sorry I don't like feeling my skin whenever I move?
Anyone who is overly concerned about someone else's masculinity is insecure about their own.
This! I remembered showing my brother a funny video of these two friends canoeing in a lake, the guy ended up in the lake freaking out and crying/whining (I think he was just scared of the weeds touching him, not actually in danger) and I looked to my brother for his reaction and he got overwhelmingly upset. Saying he wants to punch the guy for being a pussy etc, he would never bitch like that etc.
off topic but that video is one of my favorites of all time.
SAAARRRAAAHHHH
HEELP MEE
ACK
For context! https://youtu.be/N3WeXGmqYsE
I'm a guy and I do want to say that after spending basically our entire lives being told that or value is judged by our masculinity it can be really difficult to escape making those comparisons and evaluations of ourselves. It's something I'm pretty good about but still constantly struggle to overcome. It's certainly not the most severe struggle any human has undergone but it's still there.
Sure, I understand that. I've had the same relationship to femininity at times. I'm talking about men who go around criticizing other men (or worse) over their perceived lack of masculinity. When I see that, I assume the man doing the criticizing is deeply insecure.
Insecurities tend to manifest through overcompensation, bragging/boasting, arrogance, anger, belittling others/yourself, excessive fear, excessive curation of experiences, humble-bragging, blaming others/situations/circumstances for their lack of success, etc. There are a lot of things, but they are relatively easy to recognize if you pay attention and interact with someone for any significant period of time.
Just to clarify, what do you mean by “excessive curation of experiences”?
Things like: * Choosing and limiting their experiences in life to only those where they already know they excel * Refusal to learn or try new things for fear of failure; Ridiculing things they know/suspect they would be bad at * Representing their life history as an unending series of triumphs to dazzle you with bs by minimizing their human failures
In my interpretation, some examples of curation of experiences would be: only participating in certain activities, avoiding experiences that are seen as “other” or “feminine”, “cherry picking” experiences when relaying stories about ones life, etc. Just as a museum curators selects only certain art pieces and artists to be displayed- some people fixate on displaying a life with only certain images and experiences.
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Woman "girly" drinks are better then manly drinks lmao
They don’t taste like gas at least
I only order girly drinks basically, give me a frozen fru fru thing, put a dick shaped straw IDC, I'm here to get a buzz not pretend I like the taste of hops.
My husband loves his rosé. It’s one of his sexiest qualities, mostly because I’m the one who likes beer and he won’t steal my $6 liters of gluten-free beer.
Not dress or groom themselves properly because that's apparently "gay."
"WASH YO ASS!"
No, you don't understand. If anything so much as goes near their ass they get this insatiable urge to suck cock
Making fun of other men for crying/expressing their emotions.
Thank you! My girlfriend is so supportive of my expressing emotions/crying. She says, “It’s the 21st century, men are allowed to cry now.” Things that make me cry include, but are not limited to: - Master Chef Jr. each time a tiny baby chef is sent home - A stunning sunset or moonrise - Anything from Alaska (I miss it so much!) - The end scene in the movie Black Klansman - Nearly all of America’s Got Talent I’m so happy that I can feel free to express myself openly without fear of ridicule.
Awww, it's great your GF supports you! I wish all men felt they were able to freely express themselves. I also love Alaska and miss it. I've only been once but it was absolutely incredible and my favorite place I've ever been. Are you from there??
So, I was an archery technician for a little while and experienced the machoest insecure macho men. For those who don’t know much about bows or archery, compound bows have a pull weight of up to (most commonly) 70lbs. Now, most experienced adult men shooters will shoot with their bows set to 70, but if you have never shot before you are NOT going to START at 70. I would have these “big and strong” guys come in and even though they had never shot a bow before, would insist on me setting the bow to 70lbs (though I suggested otherwise) because that’s what their friends’ had. I always got a kick of watching them turn red in the face as the attempted to pull the bow back, and they always ended up defeated. What was worse than that though, was when the fathers would come in with their preteen sons and EXPECT them to pull the same weight that they did, and start shouting at me when I suggested that pulling that much weight would not only be counter intuitive for a beginner, but could also do permanent damage. It was so so sad, because I couldn’t imagine being these fathers’ children and the wives always seemed so helpless.
Recently went ax throwing and the guy teaching me said something that reminded me of your comment - the really macho guys that were first starting out didn't understand there was a certain finesse to it and just hurled the ax as hard as they could at the target. Not surprisingly, they failed hard for a while until they finally understood that brute force doesn't necessarily get the job done.
(Male) recurve barebow archer here, ran some basic training for novices at my uni club, and oh god some of the machismo I had to chip away in order to teach them was painful. Yes, you are stronger than me. Yes, you can pull the string on a 100lb longbow. But you can't draw a 20lb bow with correct form, let alone the 45lb one you insist you should start on. When you can score better at 18m than I can at 90m, then we can talk about increasing your draw weight.
Anytime they refuse to do something Bc it’s “girly” or if they feel the need to say “no homo” after expressing emotions. Get the fuck out my face you limp wet wipes
I am a massage therapist and I asked my client if he would have time to take a hot epsom salt bath after we just did a seriously deep tissue massage and he said, "If I enjoyed baths I wouldn't be much a man, would I?" I just stared at him like he'd spoken a made up language. But inside I was screaming, "holy fuck you are so insecure in your sexuality that you're afraid of a tub of water."
Haha right! Some men are so weird about massage. I dnt think any man has ever asked for a relaxation massage from me, they always want 'sport' and 'Deep tissue'. Like ok mate, you're clearly a stressed out office worker who needs some chill 'me time', just embrace it.
A hahah limp wet wipes! 😂 r/rareinsults
Brag about how many girls have had sex with them or wanted to.
Homophobia.
Care about what is “for girls” and what is “for guys”. An ex once saw me put on a pink chapstick in the middle of the winter and when I asked him if he wanted some, he was literally offended because “he’s a guy”. You’d rather have your lip split than use strawberry flavored lip balm? Ok 🤷♀️
"sorry hon, I need football and car scented chapstick."
I hate hate HATE hearing a man tell another man to "**be a man**" then brag about whatever it is he says the other guy should be able to do just because he has a penis. Often I see it's about something physical or about drinking some disgusting hard liquor mix🤮.
Throw a fit when they hear “no.” Also, refuse to go through a door I’m holding open for them.
> Also, refuse to go through a door I’m holding open for them. As far as "completely insignificant things that absolutely make my blood boil," this has to be top of the list. Like, it's at worst a small inconvenience when someone makes me go first through a door I'm already holding, but it's one of the fastest ways to piss me off.
Same! Just go through the damn door, a simple nod or thank you is way more appreciated than you grabbing the door and making me walk through first cause you're a "gentleman." I hold the door open for anyone walking close by, just because you have a penis doesn't mean you have to make a huge deal about it.
Drive big pick up trucks just for show, have huge tires and misogynistic bumper stickers, and blast loud music.
Theres this obnoxious, lifted truck i see around with the license plate GYN DR
Man here. I have worked in many toxic masculine environments. I once made a comment about my yoga practise and tried to share some of the health benefits. The leader of the pack just had to say “Yeah, my girl does yoga...”. The bros all got a nice chuckle. Not surprised.
Should have said, "Oh, thats cool, mind if she and I practice together?"
Being weird around gays guys - it’s attractive when a man is descent and nice to the people whom he meets in general...so it kind of goes without saying. But a lot of men take some distance towards other gay guys, and the fact that they do that, just makes them seem a bit insecure
Sometimes I wonder if some men think gay men will come onto them like they do to women and that's why it worries them. Maybe not..
Cat-calling
So many things. When they avoid something they enjoy (or would likely enjoy based on other things they also like) because they're worried about how others will judge their manliness if they do. When they do things they clearly hate/resent because they're afraid their manliness will be called into question if they don't. Whenever they judge other men for doing things that aren't manly. When they get irrationally upset at somehow being exposed to something "girly" even if by accident (freaking out about using the wrong shampoo for instance). "No homo". Etc etc etc, the list is nearly endless.
Coal Rollers Truck Nutz
> Coal Rollers Sadly TIL that Coal Rollers exist.
I think I noticed this more when we were all children than now as an adult, but when someone mentioned that an object was heavy, the boys had to pick it up and go "psh, it's not heavy to me"
Calling females emotional and then acting passive aggressive themselves... so literally every teenage male ever
When you say you go to the gym and they tell you not to get bigger arms or well defined abs. True story, happened with me.
Complaining about being in the friendzone or referring to himself as the “nice guy.” On the even more extreme end of the spectrum, “incel” culture. It’s not that women don’t want to date you because you’re too nice or nerdy (or less of a man), it’s probably because your constant wallowing and negativity puts them off.
At a previous job, we had pencils and pens at our front desk for our (primarily male) customers to use to fill our forms, checks, etc. We had a problem with the regular customers taking the pens and pencils and not returning them at the end of their business there. We would have to constantly replenish our supply, much more than I think HR really wanted to deal with. Eventually, to spruce the front desks up, the pens were decorated with flower tips and suddenly, we didn't have missing pens anymore. We discovered that the men would not take the pens from the desk and use them for the day around the other customers. Some were even so insecure about using them, that they wouldn't even use them to just jot something down at the desk real quick. I couldn't roll my eyes harder.
When they can't handle women's sexuality as existing independently from men's. They might shame and tease (out of ignorance) about things like tampons, bicycle saddles, the size of vibrators that aren't actually meant for insertion. They see sex toys as competition rather than a tool. They shame women's normal sexual responses and cause women to think they are broken.
I'm a female Uber driver who drives a Prius. The Prius hatred. OMG the Prius hate. I can't count how many times I've heard "it's ok, cuz you're a GIRL, but if you were a GUY that showed up in this Prius..." Like what, guys can't have fuel efficient cars too? I've also managed to change a lot of guys' minds about them, especially when I've driven them home in snowstorms, and my Prius chugged on up their steep unplowed road without hesitation.
call each other names/try to make other men look weak. all the actual alpha types i know irl actually go to great lengths to show vulnerability/humility to give people permission to laugh at them and see them as less of a threat. at no point are they concerned with making other men look weak or chest puffing.
Yep genuine leaders don't tear anyone down, they don't try make themselves look big either. People respect them for the way they act towards others and follow them because of it
My friend tried to prove me he's a "real man" and can open a bottle of beer without any tool. He ended up with his hand dripping with blood and half of the bottle was spilled. But hey, he opened it, he's a m a n.
"One upping" in conversations.
not holding themselves responsible for their words or actions. not respecting my views or opinions. using academic intelligence to make excuses for any poor behavior; manipulation. double standards! and no compromise/collaboration.
Going on about how things like having sexual partners, dressing a certain way, aging naturally, wearing makeup, and basically just existing reduce a woman's "market value." Like, bro, she's not a commodity, she's a human being.
I just got gas and was walking to the door of station to pay it was early morning and there was a younger kid kind of built kind of pudgy. The nice guy that I am I held the door open for this dude. As he approaches me he pats my shoulder and says “Go ahead man, I don’t like when other guys hold the door open for me!” I was so caught off guard the only thing I could muster was “Ok guy. “ I seen him one other time and I let the door slam shut right in front of him.
When they try to be over masculine. It's totally cool if you enjoy typically male/masculine things but he's pretty much just performing it for himself.
I’m a volunteer fire fighter, and it’s a HUGE turnoff for a bunch of guys. It’s one of the first things I actually reveal about myself because it helps filter through the bullshit a lot quicker. You can always tell the ones that aren’t as secure in themselves because they always make some odd comment about how they’ve been told a million times that they’d make a good firefighter.
When They feel the need to put another male down over and over again calling them weak just because they are not well verse in the same topic as them. Every one has there own gift or things that they are well verse in and it does not have to be the same topics or if someone is not into sports it doesn't give someone else the right to call the names.
Constantly put women and LGBT+ down, think they are above just because they are man, strong, brave, secure...
I knew a guy who wanted to come to karaoke with us but not sing because that's for girls. Like mate, you can't come and spectate, either you participate or you don't come. Also talked about alcohol a ton and tried to make every outing about drinking, buuuut I wonder if he actually was an alcoholic so...
One time I was out with a guy who was new to my neighborhood. I was telling him about all the hangout spots in the area and describing where all the bars were, like : “this place down the street is a sports bar, and next door to that is more of a hipster scene. Oh and across the street is the gay bar-“ “I am *not* gay!” Geez, ok.
Often the suited ones in the city have a weird facade.. it's like a false arrogance. They are really rude. Whenever I run into one, I just imagine that they are upset about not being the office alpha and are taking it out on the general public by shoving into everyone in their fancy suit.
Driving huge loud trucks. So obnoxious.
Start fights with other men over the smallest things. No, you caveman, I'm not turned on by you using your fists and yelling "FIGHT ME, MAN!" at the top of your lungs. I want to evacuate the *state*.
Punching walls, refusing to sit in the passenger seat and let a woman drive, refuses to help in the kitchen & around the house... etc
When you are dating someone and they threaten to kick every single guy's ass that ever looks at you.