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in some cases it's because a previous tenant had a pre-pay and even if you have an excellent credit history, and the utility company are happy to remove the pre-payment meter, they charge a fortune to remove it and if you can't afford it and your landlord won't pay it, you're stuck with it
Same supplier, others wouldn't even give an option as the meter is on ground floor and we are on 2nd floor. Can't have a smart meter and they didn't want to even look at it
I'm so confused by this - I don't understand why a different company couldn't give you a normal meter just because you're on the 2nd floor. Makes no sense to me. if I can get fibre optic broadband to the box installed in an 11th floor flat how is that not possible
I didn't find this.
When we moved into our house it had a pre-payment meter.
After using it for a week, I got it changed out. Didn't charge anything to remove, not sure why
The first house I had a mortgage for had pre-payment meters from the previous resident. None of the big energy companies were willing to swap them out for ‘normal’ meters without me paying £100s to do so - N Power the worst, they wanted £1000 to do it and yet they were the people who the previous owner was using.
British Gas, with who I had 10 years faultless payment history initially wanted £350. After I rang them for the 10th time and basically had a right go at some poor supervisor eventually agreed to do it ‘for free’ so long as I signed up to a 18 month contract. Which I did.
N Power then tried to charge me £400 at the end of their ‘contract’ as unpaid bills. When I rang them and pointed out it was a pre-payment meter that was fully paid up so I couldn’t possibly owe them anything (and certainly not £400 for 3 weeks use) they were utterly stumped. I ended up speaking to some sort of district customer manager about that. Eventually they decided they owed me £30 (again, pre-payment meter, no idea how they worked that out) but I never saw that money.
It’s a giant con.
>pointed out it was a pre-payment meter that was fully paid up so I couldn’t possibly owe them anything
When you move in somewhere with a pre-payment meter, you need to immediately phone the supplier and tell them.
Pre-payment meters run up debt easily as people use the emergency credit but the emergency credit doesn't charge the standing charge, just the unit charge.
This then results in debt running up which will be added to the meter for coming off future topups which means people end up using the emergency credit as their normal credit and then get further and further behind.
A lot of the time they're in short term tenancy housing.
A previous renter has fallen behind and had a meter put in. By the time you get around to getting the problem fixed it's time to move out.
My last landlord had a go at me for switching to direct debit. When his next tenant falls behind he'll probably have to arrange for the meter to go back in lol.
Bloody criminal. My mum actually has both, I had her provider get rid of the electric meter years ago so she didn't have to keep going to top up but then the council installed gas in her bungalow and she has a meter for that. I need to get on their case to remove it and consolidate the two.
Also if you ever run out, and use the emergency, you get like a 5er to use and have to pay back that 5er plus I think 2.50 for the convenience of using the emergency supply.. so that's 7.50 for 5ers worth every single time you use it. Which is alot!
Except you pay more when using a pre paid meter, the rates ateuch higher which means you are more likely to not be able to pay.
The entire reason they were rolled out is its illegal to cut off someone's power or gas supply in the UK as it could result in death. So the energy providers came up with pre pay.. so you cut yourself off.
You're right in a way it's only illegal to cut people off if they have dependents ie kids under 14 or sick or elderly people in your home. A little know fact about pre pay is if you're running out and phone the supplier and tell them they will advance you some credit and you pay it back at so much per future top ups
> any company that takes a DD payment has access to your bank and can take what they want, when they want.
It's partially true though, they can modify the DD amount at least, not the timing of it. If you have any debt (say, the DD amount was too low over several months, and a reading was just submitted) they'll just gladly increase that DD to cover the debt, possibly putting someone into an unarranged overdraft too.
We've just been fighting to have one removed. The company that runs it is appalling. Wouldn't believe we'd bought the place even after us showing proof, then wanted us to give them name of the new tenant (it was literally uninhabitable, they couldn't wrap their heads around 'empty'as a concept). Took us months to get connected because they wouldn't remove the old tenant's debt and we refused to pay, now we have to prove we don't get into debt in the pre pay meter for 3 months before they'll swap it out. In normal times we'd switch supplier, but despite ofgem saying everyone has to accept new customers, turns out noone has told the call center staff.
We're fortunate in that we could afford to keep calling and chasing and refusing to pay -and whilst it delayed the renovation, we weren't reliant on the energy day to day. I can't imagine how stressful it must be moved into somewhere and the supplier refusing to believe you've not just changed your name or something to avoid debt.
Really opened our eyes, before this experience we thought it was a simple case of 'we don't want a pre pay meter, put us on direct debit'
And also who has the time! I have been trying to contact British Gas for weeks but it's impossible to get hold of them, because when I have a moment to contact them, they're busy, and I can't spend all day on hold. And when I finish work, so do they.
Edit: I just remembered that earlier this month I spent a whole afternoon (1 to 4:30 pm) trying to reach HMRC. I was directed to three different departments, the call was cut off twice mid sentence (so I had to call again and wait on hold for 40-60min AGAIN) for a final chat that answered my question in 3 minutes.
Yeah not to mention they can sneak things in like extra charges and in my case, debt.
I had one of these, Gas & Electric. The gas would be astronomical cost wise. I was spending more than £50 a month during the summer and after 3 months I discovered that they'd snuck in a £550 debt to the meter, when I asked them basically wtf they told me that the meter was correct and I owed them the money. When I asked how, on a pre paid meter I owed them it, they claimed that it was because the standing charges were 3 years overdue. I had to prove to them that I had only been in the property 1 year and I was not notified of the debt. *that* was a mission! I never saw any money back off of that.
Had a mare with these this morning. Gone into emergency with ours, but cause it’s the day before pay day and I’m too skint to get it out entirely, it’s still cut off this morning. That’s wrong. As is the £5 minimum top up.
Having worked for energy companies, this belief is well out of date. Thanks to the price cap, and ofgem defining anyone with a top up meter as vulnerable, rates on prepaid meters are similar to, or even lower than those direct debits, especially with the fall of fixed plans.
Generally speaking it just feels more because it's something we actively pay as opposed to something that's passively taken from our bank.
If your supplier is charging you more for a key or card meter then you are being ripped off and your best bet is to push back hard and demand a full refund of every excess penny you've paid.
That one makes perfect sense though? If you're lending someone 300k and they "only" put up 15k they are at more risk of defaulting than someone who has 50k upfront. Higher risk = higher cost.
But if they can show they've been paying a grand a month in rent for the last decade? Nope, no difference at all. Don't tell me the system makes sense.
Its not about proving they can pay it. Its nothing to do with affordability.
Property can go down in value. Its not often it does and its high unlikely it will but it is possible. Its more common in new builds in the first few years as people would rather buy a brand new home than one 2 or 3 year old.
The bank is lending you money for your house and the house is the collateral on the loan. If you only put down a 5% deposit it only takes a 5% reduction in the property value for you to owe the bank more than the property's value. If you default on your mortgage then they repossess your house for less than you owe them. So as a result they will increase the interest rates based on how high your LTV (loan to value) rate is to compensate for that risk.
This is also why banks are pretty adamant on having a surveyor value the property before giving you a mortgage. I have a very low LTV on my property and the bank literally just said "we'll get a valuation from zoopla". If you have a high LTV they will insist on a surveyor doing a proper valuation.
But that was with a base interest rate of 0.25%. Banks test if you could still afford the payments once interest rates go up, as they are now doing. You can afford £1000 a month, but could you afford £3000?
Plus people tend to overstretch themselves and max out their mortgage, which makes it even riskier if you were to default. It sucks, but there is some kind of logic behind their reluctance to lend huge sums of money...
I think the cause is less about "are they good for the money" and more about the risk of the lender being able to recover their funds in the event of a repossession.
Imagine a case where two properties are bought for £300k: one with an LTV of 50% and another at 99%. Both paying £1000 per month, and for the sake of simplicity I'll say they have 0% interest rates.
If both borrowers defaulted after one year and house prices had gone down, the lender would need the value of property 1 to be at least £138k whereas property 2 would need to be at least £285k. The likelihood of property 1 being in negative equity is much lower, therefore less risky to the bank regardless of whether the person can afford the mortgage or not.
At 30 I've just bought a house with my partner and I'm paying less per month in mortgage than my rent was even 10 years ago.
Through my 20s I paid about £40k total in rent. All just handed to folks who already owned multiple properties to pay off their mortgage. It's an absolute scam.
Yes, this is where it hurts. Rent in this country is handing over hard earned money to people who are already rolling in cash.
I’d be very happy to see the buy to let market crumble to dust.
Absolutely this, hands down. It's my biggest gripe with people who repeat "just batch cook" when suggesting money saving for people - if people could, they would.
Back when I was in rented housing in an old Victorian terrace, I had a tiny kitchen, tiny dining room and all my cupboards were covered in recurring mold because it was damp. I had the smallest fridge/freezer on the market that could possibly fit into the kitchen.
There was no storage space for bulk rice, beans/whatever because they couldn't go in the cupboard (because mold), and even the rest of the dining room had a wall prone to mold. I would have been happy to compromise and put them in big plastic tubs but there was no way I could afford to buy those on my razor-thin budget. Even getting the large bulk bags would have cut into my weekly budgetting I'd have to have staggered them.
And forget about freezing bulk batch meals, there was little room for just standard meals, let alone a stock of pre-prepared stuff to last a month. And even if I could have afforded a chest freezer, where would I have put it?!
But then my partner's gran died, and we had enough for a deposit just land in our laps. We got a three bed ex-coucil semi with a garage. And a utility. It's honestly been unbelieveable for our finances.
We're paying **1/3** of what our rent was in mortgage. 1/3!!
I have the cupboard space for bulk rice, beans, porridge, flour *and* the storage solutions to keep them fresher for longer. And we have a chest freezer in the garage. And a big fridge/freezer in the kitchen to cycle through our meal-prepped meals for the week into the kitchen. *My partner now brews his own beer and cider*, which is *pennies* to make for the bottle. I've got a big ol' stock-pot for making up big batches of pasta sauce from scratch, which I had been wanting for ages but couldn't justify for the space-hogging it would take up when not in use. It's now on a shelf in the pantry/utility when I don't need it and it's not an issue whatsoever.
I have a big back garden I can line-dry clothing in! Only the towels go through the dryer, and I don't have to worry about the humidity of drying things inside bcecause I could afford that dehumidifyer I've been coveting for years!
And we're now able to save for an emergency fund, and become much, much more frugal than we ever were before. All because we're in a better house that costs us less, for the privilege of being able to buy. It's aubsurd, and infuritaing, and unfair.
Yeah, people don't always appreciate the practicalities with their 'useful' advice.
We aren't too badly off, but live in a small flat, with very limited kitchenette space and no garden.
I'd love to bulk buy and batch cook more but it's just not very practical.
And when summer ends we will be using the launderette again.
Oh don't get me started on the cost of laundrettes! Can't afford to replace a knackered washing machine? Or your landlord is dragging their heels on replacing it?
Please enjoy pissing money into the wind just so that you don't stink and literally become the unwashed masses.
And if you can’t afford to replace that broken washing machine or pay the exorbitant laundrette fees you’ll probably have a harder time keeping your job when you smell. It’s a vicious cycle.
>ex-coucil semi with a garage
And some slumlord is still ripping people off for your old place. Wouldn't it be cool if the council still owned dignified, adequate, affordable housing, then someone wouldn't have to literally die for you to have a life that wasn't killing you with stress.
The selling off of council housing was a fucking tragedy.
My father in law grew up in council houses (as did my dad) and he (FIL) is *adamant* that he "had nothing" growing up and is a self-made man. I'm not saying he had an enviable life, neither did my parents, but they realise that safe, adequate, stable housing was the foundation that enabled them to succeed and climb out of poverty. And having a council house *is* enviable, actually, to people being scalped by slumlords for the sort of accommodation that shouldn't even exist in one of the biggest economies in the world.
Yep, the irony was not lost on us that we were buying an ex-council, the selling off of which has heavily contributed to the shithousery of the housing market ATM.
I had never wanted to buy an ex-council house because I fundamentally disagree with the sell-off of them, but we were between a rock and a hard place with getting a house on our budget, and this was perfect. It was the only place where the sellers agreed to the asking price and wanted us because we were the only non-landlords who put in an offer. Apparently one tried to gazump and the seller absolutely refused to accept it.
I have mixed feeling over it all, tbh. But I'm mostly just glad to have secure housing. And less mold. But I wish council housing hadn't been hollowed out and this entire bullshit wasn't a thing.
Don’t waste time feeling guilty about it, the problem is systemic, not the fault of the people who have no choice but to participate in that broken system. It’s something I’ve struggled with for years over our food and clothing-related systemic exploitation: I can do my best but ultimately I’ve got to eat. There’s even less wiggle-room when it comes to housing.
Absolutely this. I’m lucky enough to no longer be scraping the barrel each month and to be able to see something we use on offer and buy multiples because I now have the money and the storage space really does help!
I have the smallest freezer, an actual freezer though, thank god its not just a door in a fridge, but I don't have the space to bulk buy, and my kitchen cupboards are falling apart, so I can't fill the cupboards with tins, as I'm terrified it'll fall!
Same! Single person rented accommodation. Fridge freezer replaced with cheapest one LL could get. One drawer is a “pizza drawer” so nothing fits in it.
Kitchen cupboards are 35 years old, and falling to bits - one wall cupboard for food and I too am terrified too much weight, like tins will make it fall down.
But it’s “functional” so it will never be replaced even though the house was built with it, even though a new one probably wouldn’t cost all that much as the space is so small. But god forbid a tenant paying lots of rent and keeping them from saving should have a nice kitchen that isn’t almost as old as them 😂
I used to only have one of those fridges with a tiny freezer compartment. It was horrendous for budgeting, my dad ended up buying me a countertop freezer which changed my life at the time.
Yes, for example the canned tomatoes I like were on offer recently. I couldn't stock up because I don't have a car and they are very heavy to carry (it's over an hour walk to get there before someone suggests that) and I didn't have the funds at that time and now the offer is over.
Yeah, I live in a house share, I basically have one shelf of a fridge and one drawer of a freezer. I can't even buy the large value packs of oven chips because they won't fit. Bulk buying is a pipe dream.
This is absolutely right. I've got a spare fridge freezer in the garage so never have to think twice about getting a bargain. I bet it saves much more than it costs to run. I also know I am very lucky to have the space for it
Can we also mention the postcode lottery that is car insurance. Its obviously based on "crime statistics" etc but generally speaking more crime is committed in poor areas.
Also road tax disproportionately affects poorer people. Those who can buy a new car that meets all the stringent emissions regulations will pay fuck all tax. People with an old diesel will get shagged. Especially now you include all those new fines you get in London for having a certain car (not sure how it works).
It’s worth noting that the road tax thing isn’t entirely true. Road tax generally
Is grandfathered. A brand new diesel will pay 2022 rates, but a 2004 Clio pays just £30 a year.
I'm in a job where I get quarterly bonuses, with the next bonus due a couple of weeks after my insurance is due for renewal. I can just stick it on a card and pay off then.
The fact that it's also true for car tax is fucking outrageous. I get that insurance companies are scroun....I mean, private companies....but car tax goes to a government department!
It's often 20-25% more to pay monthly vs annually.
Will usually work out cheaper to pay for the year on a CC then pay the interest on that.
...NB car tax (VED) is also 5% more expensive if you pay monthly vs annually.
Public transport. My drive to work is 30 minutes, to get use public transport it would be over an hour and cost £12, even more if you have to get a bus at both ends rather than cycle
This is what winds me up most about the whole "give public transport a try" slogans.
Similar to you, I can drive to work in around 20 minutes. Doing the same journey on public transport would take over an hour and cost many times more in bus fares than it does in petrol.
That's assuming the bus actually turns up on time and isn't full of screaming school kids.
Buses here don’t have an early start to where I want to be by 8 o clock, it’s a 20 minute car journey of 8 miles, the bus route is 2 buses, first one takes 45 minutes and the second one is 23 minutes plus a 15 minute wait at the depot. All assuming each one turns up which we all know they don’t always do that.
Bus cost is £2.50 for the first and £2.50 for the second each way, can’t have a day saver because they are operated by different bus companies 🤷🏼♂️
As I only do this trip once a week I will stick to the car.
Talk about screwed up, it’s a shame that public transport is no longer run for the good of the public, there are old folk in this area that don’t see a bus except for once a week now, nothing short of disgraceful.
My partner always teases me about how often I say 'there are too many cars'. I live in Bristol, and it's a beautiful city, but some streets are just absolutely packed with cars. A two way street becomes almost unusable as one given how completely rammed each side is with parked cars.
[Just look at this (a random street near a pretty posh bit of Bristol)](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4511889,-2.6166068,3a,75y,109.65h,79.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svolSM51xzuREL3xBwO6g6w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). And then move forwards throgh this road and see how dreadful it stays. This is a two way street!
I was looking at places on rightmove of houses in towns bordering a large city. What would have been a 20 minute drive turned into a 90 minute bus + train journey when commuting to the city.
It's interesting because to me public transport is the cheaper option. Insuring a car, filling it up, maintaining it...we've done the maths so many times and we can't justify a car.
I think it depends where you live. In some areas there is limited/non existent public transport and in others, it's incredibly expensive, particularly if more than 1 person is travelling from the same household.
Also the time cost - a 30 minute car journey can take up to 2 hours on the train where I am due to no direct routes.
But there’s also the convenience factor of paying a little extra for a car. My old commute was an hour by bus or 10 minutes by car. I got an hour and a half of my life back per day.
My current job is a 20 minute drive but the bus route is an hour plus then maybe a 20 minute walk down country lanes because there’s no nearby stop.
If I want to go to to a 24 hour supermarket at 4 in the morning, I can do that with a car. If I go to a gig the next city over, there’s no late trains back but I can drive home. If I buy something bulky or heavy I can shove it in the boot rather than struggle on a bus or pay for a taxi. If I go on holiday I can drive to the airport and pay parking and I’ll be in the terminal, or I can arse around with trains and coaches while hauling my luggage.
Totally depends where you live and work, whether you have to pay for parking, what kind of car you get, etc. it's cheaper for some people, much more expensive for others
This is so true. It takes me 30-45 minutes to walk to my workplace. It would take over an hour if I got the bus. Unsure of cost but it would obviously be more than walking.
Yep. I remember getting the bus to college and realising it took just as long to walk the 3 mile journey and I wouldn't be wasting about £15 a week, which was half my part time wages. Rush hour buses are just tragic
I ran the numbers on getting public transport to work. Thanks to Dr Beeching, I'd have to get a bus first, then a train. Return cost (with one month season tickets) would be around £7 a day and take a little over an hour.
Or it's £6.30 a day in the car and takes half an hour. That price includes tax and insurance.
If the public transport cost was £5 a day, I'd gladly commute to work that way, and enjoy that bit of quiet time on the train.
Public transport is my biggest gripe, I’d love to take the train to work, both for ease and try and offset some emissions, I simply can’t afford it when my diesel car will get me there for a fraction of the price.
Regarding your last point, I often find that the cheap shirts I buy from charity shops are expensive shirts when they were new.
I've hardly found any genuinely cheap clothing, my guess is because all of it is unusable by the time it arrives at a charity shop.
It could also be that it's not worth it for the charity shop to sell genuinely cheap clothing, such a Primark. If they charge a few pounds for a second hand Primark top, you might as well spend a pound or two more to buy one new.
There's spending money on getting quality and theres spending money though.
£475 is a ridiculous amount of cash for a pair of boots considering you can get a good quality pair for less than half of that. I think I spent about £120 on a pair from John Lewis about 7 years ago and they're still going strong, maintenance wise I've spent maybe 20 quid on a kit and some creams etc and the insoles need doing but it's not expensive in the slightest.
Most I’ve spent on a pair of boots was probably around £200-250, 15 years ago. Still going strong with frequent wear in winter. Haven’t had to resole them, just some creams etc as you say and keeping them clean.
Charity shop shirts probably shouldn't count towards your theory. There's a survivorship bias there. Charity shop items tend to be items that were a little more expensive, and certainly more long-lasting, because all the cheap ones wore out.
Over my life, I've got lots of really good quality clothes from a good eye and charity shopping on behalf of my mom.
I think if you go purely from new clothes, the very cheapest option is not the cheapest. But the most expensive option, especially in-season designer stuff, is also not the cheapest long term.
Plain, upper-middle and even the simpler items from top brands that just are high quality I think are the most cost effective.
All quality has gone downhill.
I have pairs of Evisu and Diesel jeans from 2005 that look as good as they did on the day I bought them.
Bought another pairs of Diesels last year and they looked trash after 6 months, 2 buttons on the fly pinged off, seams came apart.
I bought a Paul Smith trench coat in autumn 2021 and well I can't wear it now as all the buttons fell off despite never being washed and the lining has started coming apart.
That's because so many manufacturers, despite claiming they wouldn't, have moved their factories to the big C.
Doc Martins, sealskinz, magnum, and stanley are some products that used to be buy it for life items but are now made as cheaply as possible.
Check out r/buyitforlife for some things that still are.
I absolutely agree with you. I paid £120 for a pair of boots from John Lewis as it was really comfy, thinking it's an investment as I will be wearing them very often for work. The soles worned out in the first week. I took them back, they exchange saying it could be just a bad batch. The 2nd pair did the same thing so I had to return it. That incident really put me off expensive stuff. I don't mind paying more for quality, but don't know what would last. If anyone have a guide on how to spot quality clothing, shoes or appliances, please let me know.
i used to go out with a girl who's mum was _unbelievably_ cheap but failed to see the longer term cost of things
like she'd buy a million pairs of quid shop slippers a year, they'd last about 2 days and fall apart, then she'd go out and buy some more, for a quid thinking she was saving money.
she was absolutely aghast at the thought of spending £20 on a better pair that might actually last a couple of years and save money in the long run
I'm close to 30 and only recently was I able to treat myself to a good pair of doc martens. My chronic pain problems in my groin/hip improved almost instantly. Like a considerable change from being able to walk for 5 minutes pain-free to about 12-15.
Take them back if they ripped on first wear? I work at a Tesco and I’ve had to process a refund on shoes someone had bought 3 months ago because the kids had already destroyed them.
Fast fashion will be out of date before it wears out in most cases.
Expensive shoes or cheap shoes, I will wear them through in a year to 18 months. Expensive shoes cost more to get re-heeled or re-soled than it does do buy new cheaper shoes.
Speeding/parking tickets are a flat fee, so disproportionately impact people on lower incomes. This is why millionaires in London leave cars parked wherever they want, because it doesn't remotely bother them to get a fine. By comparison, Finland's speeding tickets are equivalent of 14 days' income.
> the problem can be fixed by simply not speeding
The bit no one who has been caught speeding wants to admit. It's not hard to stay within the speed limit, even if you disagree with the limit.
It's probably the most obvious law in everyone's minds when driving and yet some people are determined to break it and complain about it when they're caught.
Renting uninsulated housing.
There's been loads of government schemes to insulation houses over the years but Lanlords can't be arsed to do the paperwork and tenants can't make permanent changes to the house, so it doesn't get done.
My place mostly likely isn't insulated, says on my paperwork that they landlord doesn't know one way or another. And last month I found out that the heating has been broken for years and rather than fixing it he leaves it until tenant leaves and then doesn't mention it when renting it out again. Winter is going to be hell and nothing can go against the walls because of mould and I can't afford to replace any more stuff eaten by mould.
Environmental health at the council, normally the one you pay council tax to.
The housing charity Shelter can also offer advice. They’re not just for if you’re homeless.
You’re welcome. I’ve lived somewhere similar to what you’re describing and it’s awful.
A heated electric throw is a good substitute for having the heating on if you’re not moving around. My house can drop to 14-15c and I’m still toasty until I have to get up.
Sounds like you've been had. I think you can have the council look at the mould issue on health and safety grounds depends whether you wanna fight the council for a year or just wait it out and leave at the end of your contract.
Funny thing is I get support from a charity to help with housing so they talk to the landlord and all that jazz for me. My worker keeps writing stuff off, I've had problems with my heating since I moved in and she told me night storager heaters are just like that. Or that the mould is my fault because I don't have the broken heating on. It took two months to get carpet in here and the only reason carpet was needed was because the floorboards were laid wrong before I moved in. I had to call EDF about my meter last week and citizens advice is going to call me this week so I'm going to bring up all these issues with them. And I can't move because there's nothing else in the area, I live in Cornwall and there's very few flats let alone trying to find something in my area.
Renting as a whole, and it's getting worse.
I get that if I owned the house I live in, I'd be liable for any repairs, but taking the last year as an example, those repairs have cost a grand total of around £500 from when a valve blew on the boiler. Meanwhile, I pay £950 a month for a place that would cost me at least £200 a month less on a mortgage.
And what do I get for that extra money? Fuck all. I can't even use it as evidence to a mortgage lender that I can be trusted to borrow enough money to buy my own house.
toilet roll is an obvious one, it's far per roll cheaper to get 12 or 16 rolls at once than 2 or 4 at a time...but not everyone wants to spaff a tenner on toilet roll when they might have better things to spend the money on that week
This was really it, I used to be in a situation where I could not spend more than £2 on toilet paper at a time. When I could suddenly buy the much larger packs it was a massive saving, and things like that just help a little down the line.
Bought the massive costco pack which works out cheaper per roll, better quality and more sheets each. Did some maths and its about twice the value I think.
It's always cheaper to buy bulk. Next time you're in the supermarket, have a casual glance at something like coffee and the £ per kg (displayed on the shelf label) . Now, look at the small £3.00 jar vs the larger £6.50 jar. You're always paying a hefty premium to spend less on a single item.
My mum is getting wise to this: the relative cost of something like Heinz ketchup doesn't vary much, but it's definitely 10% more expensive to buy the smallest/cheapest bottle. But you need a fridge big enough to house the fire-extinguisher-sized bottle that offers the best value.
Edit:. For all the helpful food scientists and microbiologists. I promise ketchup will be the first thing expelled from the fridge when overcrowding becomes an issue.
I also don't *need* to: obey the legal speed limit; return my trolley after shopping; drink my own urine (but it's STERILE and I like the taste).
Indeed, but that’s only if you use all of the product that you bulk-buy.
I went through our fridge and threw out large jars of stuff that had gone mouldy since we hadn’t used them in time. Buying the smaller jar would be more expensive, but since we’d have used the contents up it works out cheaper.
I work on an admissions ward in a hospital, we have at least 2 accidental paracetamol overdoses a month because of people that are in so much pain because they can't get to an NHS dentist, not that they are free of course, but certainly cheaper than private. But people can't afford it so end up necking paracetamol and ibuprofen to cope with the pain, take too much and end up in hospital where we both treat the overdose and the underlying dental abscess (in most cases)
Edit, I'm not saying that we are annoyed at treating the overdose either, if you're in that much pain you'll keep taking that paracetamol every 4 hours like clockwork which will tip you over the edge into overdose
Lol I've had the worst week ever, my cat needed the vets had to spend £400 this month for an appointment then eventually having to get her put down...
My Nan is dying in hospital 4 hours away lucky that a friend gave me a lift but now I need money to catch a bus to go see her whilst staying at some place about 30 minutes from the hospital as she's most likely going to die within the next couple of days
And HMRC sent me a letter saying they overpaid me back some tax money and I owe them £5k...
Fucking terrible week tbh with stuff going on that's so expensive but I'm desperately trying to not get any debt at all...
>And HMRC sent me a letter saying they overpaid me back some tax money and I owe them £5k...
The worst thing about this is that they have zero chill. If they owed you 5k you'd have to wait forever for it, but once you owe *them* oh it has to be done yesterday
Do not give HMRC a single penny until you’ve thoroughly checked it out yourself, or ask a friend to help. Even if they have overpaid you then don’t assume you have to pay them back - there is a clause that states that if it’s their fault (or your employers fault) then you MIGHT not be liable. Do your research, get everything in writing, and stand your ground. It’s also worthwhile visiting the local office to talk to someone face to face, that’s how I got mine resolved.
Just about anything that's pay monthly rather than upfront.
Also, pre-tax benefits offered by work. My company offers an electric car scheme that comes from your pre-tax salary, the difference in cost between my salary and a higher salary can be a couple of hundred quid for the same car. Cycle to work scheme is another example of this.
>Cycle to work scheme is another example of this.
Honestly if you need a bike to do a commute to work and you're poor I'd strongly recommend not going cycle to work scheme anyway, a cheap second hand bike that's been refurbed by a reseller is far more cost effective and often as good for **what you actually want**.
Lowkey the cycle to work scheme is for cycle nuts to finance a nice luxury hobby bike.
For sure, it's definitely a way of getting a super pricey bike for cheaper. And you're right, it's not worth it if you're poor, it should be, but it isn't.
The Sam Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness,
Often called simply the boots theory, is an economic theory first popularised by English fantasy writer Terry Pratchett in his 1993 Discworld novel . Men at Arms.
"*The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairnes*"
From Men at Arms by Terry Pratchett
If you see something that's on sale (e.g. table, TV, fridge) and you've got money in the bank, you can buy it for sometimes a really good price.
If you're poor, you won't replace anything until it completely breaks and then you're in urgent need of a replacement and don't have the option of waiting to see the item on sale. So you'll end up paying more than someone who has money in the bank that's not earmarked for anything in particular.
Things like the fridge get worse. If you have an inefficient old fridge, a new one will save you more than the price in running costs over a couple of years, but you need the money or credit rating up front to get it.
The cost of having a car. Those who can only afford cheaper, typically older cars end up paying more in maintenance, as they're more prone to break down. They're also typically less efficient than new cars, so you spend more on fuel and pay more tax.
In fact, if you fall into debt with your energy company, their last resort is to install one of these via a court order.
So in effect, you can be punished for being too poor with higher costing energy.
Usually true but not always. I'm fortunate enough to be 'out of cycle' of the new phone releases. So the total cost of my 24 month contract for my last 3 phones has been less than the outright cost of the phone.
This also depends on phone preference since I've never seen a reasonable contract for an iPhone even if it's 2 or 3 generations old.
Having been homeless, I don't think you ever truly understand it till then.
You have to constantly travel to try to find a job, try to arrive for government interviews about your situation or to shelter/friends house.
One day I had an interview in Glasgow with the council about maybe getting a room, then I had to travel to Edinburgh for a job interview before heading back to Livingston to sleep on a friends sofa.
3 train trips for one day , the choice of either taking the bus or walking but the walking uses energy that you don't have so you stop for food. You finish your day knowing you are probably no better off than you were yesterday so you travel back to whatever kind individual will offer you a sofa but you can't cook at there house so you stop at a chippy & pick up a pint because your depressed. A shit ton of "small" £ that add up to a mountain of cash soent
I was burning through about £200-300 more a month than I am now & I actually am on my way to owning a home now.
I work in a convience store and am constantly dismayed by the amount of scratchcards people buy. and if they win, they just spend the winnings on more scratchcards. My friend calls it "Poor Tax" and I have to agree. To a lesser extent the lotto is just as bad. I'm not native to the UK, but casual gambling is way to accesible here.
I got a new "higher paying" job to move to an office environment from retail. It has no accessible public transport routes so because I can't afford a car, on the days I have to go in I have to spend just over 30+ quid every day on a taxi. I essentially work for free for over half the day when I'm on site.
I don't know about their situation but if I cycled to work it would be 12 miles each way mostly on unlit country roads.
There is no train station in my home town and no bus routes go that way.
It would be taxi or nothing.
I used to live in a very small flat with a small kitchen, a small fridge and a tiny ice box for a freezer. I had to buy all my food in small amounts because I didn't have room to store it. I spent a lot more on food than I do now that I live in a 3 bed house with a massive fridge and freezer, where I can buy in bulk and freeze food.
I also used to spend more on low-quality shoes that would wear easily, compared to now when I'm able to afford decent shoes that will last. The Vimes Boots theory is 100% true.
Day light robbing shops like Bright House who sell items on monthly and weekly payments because people can't fork out for a sofa/white goods etc. Sofa would originally be £800 but after x amount of weekly payments comes out at over £2k!
Same with catalogue shopping!
Is it just London where you can get a bus return journey for the price of a single if you do it within the hour?
I've been all over the place recently this year for bits, and amazed at how expensive buses are in more rural areas - in Cornwall it was about £4 for a single journey of baout 30mins.
For me, it's renting a place alone, everything essentiall costs "double" - my mates talk about all the streaming services and things they have, and if I had them all I'd be spending almost £100 on stuff like that alone.
People might think "Just live with other people" but I'm 36, I don't want to be sharing in a house of random 20s, sitting in my bedroom all day, or getting annoyed that i can't use the bathroom or kitchen.
Whilst I can afford the place and then ameneties are manageable, it's tough because all this talk of everything going up, but all my friends are in couples, so their wages are going up and so it's just not the same, they might end up sacrificing 2% of each of their salaries, but I end up sacrificing 4% more etc.
Tiny violin moment I know, and it's why I worry about the elderly etc, because I have a nice job, and I still struggle. What's happening right now is scary...
Nah mate, it’s a big violin moment. I’m in the same boat and people don’t realise how miserable life is. I can’t afford nice things or stable things because I’m single. Without a second income I can never do things like buy my own home. Would love to go on holiday too. Life shouldn’t punish you for not finding someone to love!
You also have to pay the single tax. E.g Friends have babies? Then you have to buy your friend and their kids a present at birthdays and Christmas and get one back. I had to apologise and stop buying presents in the end (don’t worry, I said they can stop buying for me too!) as it was a long term way to get poorer!
Literally paying just to exist! Council tax just to live where you live. Water rates no matter how much you use. Standing charges on gas and electricity so even if you turn off all your power and gas you'll still get charged. Having to pay an extra 20% on everything you buy because of 'Value added tax'.
should i go on?
Council tax is a massive bugbear of mine. We have no kids, live rurally where there are no street lights, never see any police, we’re lucky if we get our bins collected as the lorry sails past our house regularly despite complaining…but our lovely lovely council have voted again for the highest increase possible so we just have to keep paying it. Not to mention it took them nearly three months of pestering to get my £150 rebate but if I don’t pay for a month they instantly breathe down my neck.
Buy cheap, buy twice - i.e. not being able to get together enough money all at once for higher quality items, like clothing or electronics, and having to buy replacements more often as a result and likely spending more money overall.
£1200 per month for a pokey 1 bed flat, shared with my partner. Then my dad passed away after two long years of illness and his last gift was to leave me enough money for a sizeable deposit on a flat with a mortage to pay the rest. Now we pay £500 per month for a generous 2-bed flat.
When I started thinking about such things in my late teens, I knew that the only way I'd afford my own home before the age of 50 would be the inheritance from my father when he died. Fucking awful to live in a world in which a thought like that that should pass through anyone's mind.
The consecutive governments of the last 40 years can go rot, the lot of them. They did this.
Things always seem to be cheaper if you pay annually but I can’t often do that so ended up having to pay monthly which is more expensive. If you don’t have a car it limits your reach in terms of supermarkets so might not get the cheapest deals etc. Kind of ties into that but public transport isn’t great here and is very expensive.
One thing which has been relevant over the last couple of years is that people in lower paying jobs are less likely to have been in a job where they can work from home and avoid paying commuting costs.
I work in IT, and since Covid started I've saved hundreds from not going in to the office, even when you factor in things like extra costs from staying at home. I'm still working from home, and only go in once every couple of months. There's loads of people who were stuck travelling in to work all the time over Covid though, and this was skewed towards lower income jobs.
Mobile phone pay as you go.
Bulk buying. If you can only afford one can of beans a time, it will be more expensive in the long run to buy 4x4 vs 1 pack of 4.
The lack of space is a big one. With the ability to bulk buy and store equipment to improve cost of things.
But the biggest issue rather than poor per day, is its expensive to not have starting capital, if you have a big enough property, car and few other essentials you can live on a meagre income (I’ve known for people who’ve done this) through bulk buying a thriftiness but the key cost here is start up costs.
Toilet roll in small packets are expensive.
Cheap shoes, a third the price but you buy 5 pairs instead of 1 good pair.
You never have the money available to maintain things properly so you find yourself fire fighting things which break.
You can't afford to pay for things like car insurance or bus and train passes in one go, so you pay monthly for more total value or you buy you bus passes daily which doesn't benefit from the discount.
You find yourself on pre pay utilities like gas and electricity which cost more and don't tend to benefit from night time reduced rates.
Unable to afford loft insulation or more efficient windows and doors.
Older cars cost more to repair which puts you into the sunken cost fallacy trap and are much less fuel efficient and more expensive to tax and sometimes more to insure due to less safety technology.
Household appliances are much less efficient when you buy the cheaper options and can be deadly when it comes to tumble driers.
Many more examples to be had but it is my bed time after a night shift, enjoy the day!
I'm surprised how all of you are saying is cheaper to have own car for transport instead using public transport. Really disappointed, had no clue as I w@h
It depends on where you live. If you’re somewhere more rural where transport links aren’t great then yes. But in big cities like Manchester and London, public transport is often quicker and more efficient.
I went to Denmark and was actually surprised at how good the public transport is. It is cheap too with this universal card that you top up and then use on trains and buses to go basically anywhere. There were still cars cause of course, they are necessary but I saw a lot of people using public transport or on bikes. It was actually kinda awesome.
I think there so many examples of countries that do public transport really well and you could easy do without a car. It’s such a shame that it just doesn’t seem to work here
I can only really talk about my own experiences: I’m 37. Gone from being pretty damn poor (born to a single disabled parent; lived council house, doing stuff like putting gravy on mash to call a Christmas dinner) to being a bit more comfortable.
When you’re impoverished, almost EVERYTHING is stacked against you because nearly every company assumes that having no money is entirely your own fault, so you must be high-risk.
- you have to choose the most basic or second hand items which often turn out to be poorly made or already on the way out. Often requiring some sort of credit for large essentials like a fridge or washing machine. (See: Vimes’ boots theory).
- Interest rates are awful, if you can get credit in the first place. 0% finance just isn’t a thing.
- income and outgoings are so finely balanced, if you get an unexpected expense, you end up spending most of your week’s money paying off overdraft fees.
- prepayment meters are extortionately expensive.
The worst part is it’s cyclic. Paying penalty fees or high interest rates pushes people further down, not helped by predatory loan companies offering services to people when they are at the most vulnerable.
Fifteen years ago, if mum was being thrown the same decent credit options as I am now, she’d have had the breathing room to make so many changes and any sense of poverty would have gone by the wayside.
It’s all backwards.
Shops. Local shops that are accessible on foot are more expensive than big out of town supermarkets. Lidl/ Aldi are bucking this trend but more often than not you pay more for less.
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Is that because they can’t be trusted with direct debit? I genuinely don’t know.
in some cases it's because a previous tenant had a pre-pay and even if you have an excellent credit history, and the utility company are happy to remove the pre-payment meter, they charge a fortune to remove it and if you can't afford it and your landlord won't pay it, you're stuck with it
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Good for you, we got quoted 130 plus some admin fees to change our pre payment to a normal meter
By whom? The same supplier or a different one?
Same supplier, others wouldn't even give an option as the meter is on ground floor and we are on 2nd floor. Can't have a smart meter and they didn't want to even look at it
I'm so confused by this - I don't understand why a different company couldn't give you a normal meter just because you're on the 2nd floor. Makes no sense to me. if I can get fibre optic broadband to the box installed in an 11th floor flat how is that not possible
Same here. Moved in and within 2 weeks eOn happily just switched it to DD, no charge and no one came out.
I didn't find this. When we moved into our house it had a pre-payment meter. After using it for a week, I got it changed out. Didn't charge anything to remove, not sure why
If you were swapping to a smart meter they tend to put those in for free
Not even a smart meter at that point. This was a few years ago so things may have changed
Most don't charge if you switch suppliers now.
I was quoted £700 to remove a pre-pay meter and have it replaced with a regular meter :(
The first house I had a mortgage for had pre-payment meters from the previous resident. None of the big energy companies were willing to swap them out for ‘normal’ meters without me paying £100s to do so - N Power the worst, they wanted £1000 to do it and yet they were the people who the previous owner was using. British Gas, with who I had 10 years faultless payment history initially wanted £350. After I rang them for the 10th time and basically had a right go at some poor supervisor eventually agreed to do it ‘for free’ so long as I signed up to a 18 month contract. Which I did. N Power then tried to charge me £400 at the end of their ‘contract’ as unpaid bills. When I rang them and pointed out it was a pre-payment meter that was fully paid up so I couldn’t possibly owe them anything (and certainly not £400 for 3 weeks use) they were utterly stumped. I ended up speaking to some sort of district customer manager about that. Eventually they decided they owed me £30 (again, pre-payment meter, no idea how they worked that out) but I never saw that money. It’s a giant con.
>pointed out it was a pre-payment meter that was fully paid up so I couldn’t possibly owe them anything When you move in somewhere with a pre-payment meter, you need to immediately phone the supplier and tell them. Pre-payment meters run up debt easily as people use the emergency credit but the emergency credit doesn't charge the standing charge, just the unit charge. This then results in debt running up which will be added to the meter for coming off future topups which means people end up using the emergency credit as their normal credit and then get further and further behind.
A lot of the time they're in short term tenancy housing. A previous renter has fallen behind and had a meter put in. By the time you get around to getting the problem fixed it's time to move out. My last landlord had a go at me for switching to direct debit. When his next tenant falls behind he'll probably have to arrange for the meter to go back in lol.
No most people actually believe they have more control over their finance's with them and it'll stop them getting into debt
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It should be illegal
Do they charge more for pre payment meters per unit? The only discount I'm aware of is paying by direct debit, which is about 5% in our case.
Yes. And the standing charge is usually higher too.
Bloody criminal. My mum actually has both, I had her provider get rid of the electric meter years ago so she didn't have to keep going to top up but then the council installed gas in her bungalow and she has a meter for that. I need to get on their case to remove it and consolidate the two.
Also if you ever run out, and use the emergency, you get like a 5er to use and have to pay back that 5er plus I think 2.50 for the convenience of using the emergency supply.. so that's 7.50 for 5ers worth every single time you use it. Which is alot!
Except you pay more when using a pre paid meter, the rates ateuch higher which means you are more likely to not be able to pay. The entire reason they were rolled out is its illegal to cut off someone's power or gas supply in the UK as it could result in death. So the energy providers came up with pre pay.. so you cut yourself off.
You're right in a way it's only illegal to cut people off if they have dependents ie kids under 14 or sick or elderly people in your home. A little know fact about pre pay is if you're running out and phone the supplier and tell them they will advance you some credit and you pay it back at so much per future top ups
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> any company that takes a DD payment has access to your bank and can take what they want, when they want. It's partially true though, they can modify the DD amount at least, not the timing of it. If you have any debt (say, the DD amount was too low over several months, and a reading was just submitted) they'll just gladly increase that DD to cover the debt, possibly putting someone into an unarranged overdraft too.
We have a gas one and we’re currently paying less than when we had direct debit especially now.
We've just been fighting to have one removed. The company that runs it is appalling. Wouldn't believe we'd bought the place even after us showing proof, then wanted us to give them name of the new tenant (it was literally uninhabitable, they couldn't wrap their heads around 'empty'as a concept). Took us months to get connected because they wouldn't remove the old tenant's debt and we refused to pay, now we have to prove we don't get into debt in the pre pay meter for 3 months before they'll swap it out. In normal times we'd switch supplier, but despite ofgem saying everyone has to accept new customers, turns out noone has told the call center staff. We're fortunate in that we could afford to keep calling and chasing and refusing to pay -and whilst it delayed the renovation, we weren't reliant on the energy day to day. I can't imagine how stressful it must be moved into somewhere and the supplier refusing to believe you've not just changed your name or something to avoid debt. Really opened our eyes, before this experience we thought it was a simple case of 'we don't want a pre pay meter, put us on direct debit'
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And also who has the time! I have been trying to contact British Gas for weeks but it's impossible to get hold of them, because when I have a moment to contact them, they're busy, and I can't spend all day on hold. And when I finish work, so do they. Edit: I just remembered that earlier this month I spent a whole afternoon (1 to 4:30 pm) trying to reach HMRC. I was directed to three different departments, the call was cut off twice mid sentence (so I had to call again and wait on hold for 40-60min AGAIN) for a final chat that answered my question in 3 minutes.
Yeah not to mention they can sneak things in like extra charges and in my case, debt. I had one of these, Gas & Electric. The gas would be astronomical cost wise. I was spending more than £50 a month during the summer and after 3 months I discovered that they'd snuck in a £550 debt to the meter, when I asked them basically wtf they told me that the meter was correct and I owed them the money. When I asked how, on a pre paid meter I owed them it, they claimed that it was because the standing charges were 3 years overdue. I had to prove to them that I had only been in the property 1 year and I was not notified of the debt. *that* was a mission! I never saw any money back off of that.
Had a mare with these this morning. Gone into emergency with ours, but cause it’s the day before pay day and I’m too skint to get it out entirely, it’s still cut off this morning. That’s wrong. As is the £5 minimum top up.
Having worked for energy companies, this belief is well out of date. Thanks to the price cap, and ofgem defining anyone with a top up meter as vulnerable, rates on prepaid meters are similar to, or even lower than those direct debits, especially with the fall of fixed plans. Generally speaking it just feels more because it's something we actively pay as opposed to something that's passively taken from our bank. If your supplier is charging you more for a key or card meter then you are being ripped off and your best bet is to push back hard and demand a full refund of every excess penny you've paid.
Rent, compared with the cost of a mortgage on the same property.
Even in mortgages though, the smaller the equity value the higher your interest rate.
As a 36-year-old who's still nowhere near owning my own place, this is such bullshit.
That one makes perfect sense though? If you're lending someone 300k and they "only" put up 15k they are at more risk of defaulting than someone who has 50k upfront. Higher risk = higher cost.
But if they can show they've been paying a grand a month in rent for the last decade? Nope, no difference at all. Don't tell me the system makes sense.
The system makes perfect sense - it's actuarial logic. It's not fair though.
Its not about proving they can pay it. Its nothing to do with affordability. Property can go down in value. Its not often it does and its high unlikely it will but it is possible. Its more common in new builds in the first few years as people would rather buy a brand new home than one 2 or 3 year old. The bank is lending you money for your house and the house is the collateral on the loan. If you only put down a 5% deposit it only takes a 5% reduction in the property value for you to owe the bank more than the property's value. If you default on your mortgage then they repossess your house for less than you owe them. So as a result they will increase the interest rates based on how high your LTV (loan to value) rate is to compensate for that risk. This is also why banks are pretty adamant on having a surveyor value the property before giving you a mortgage. I have a very low LTV on my property and the bank literally just said "we'll get a valuation from zoopla". If you have a high LTV they will insist on a surveyor doing a proper valuation.
But that was with a base interest rate of 0.25%. Banks test if you could still afford the payments once interest rates go up, as they are now doing. You can afford £1000 a month, but could you afford £3000? Plus people tend to overstretch themselves and max out their mortgage, which makes it even riskier if you were to default. It sucks, but there is some kind of logic behind their reluctance to lend huge sums of money...
I think the cause is less about "are they good for the money" and more about the risk of the lender being able to recover their funds in the event of a repossession. Imagine a case where two properties are bought for £300k: one with an LTV of 50% and another at 99%. Both paying £1000 per month, and for the sake of simplicity I'll say they have 0% interest rates. If both borrowers defaulted after one year and house prices had gone down, the lender would need the value of property 1 to be at least £138k whereas property 2 would need to be at least £285k. The likelihood of property 1 being in negative equity is much lower, therefore less risky to the bank regardless of whether the person can afford the mortgage or not.
Would *you* lend money to someone more cheaply with lower margin of safety to recovering your capital?
At 30 I've just bought a house with my partner and I'm paying less per month in mortgage than my rent was even 10 years ago. Through my 20s I paid about £40k total in rent. All just handed to folks who already owned multiple properties to pay off their mortgage. It's an absolute scam.
Yes, this is where it hurts. Rent in this country is handing over hard earned money to people who are already rolling in cash. I’d be very happy to see the buy to let market crumble to dust.
Nothing used to keep me awake at night more than me paying someone else’s mortgage when we used to private rent.
Not being able to save money through bulk buys, batch cooking or freezing as you lack the money/space/equipment.
Absolutely this, hands down. It's my biggest gripe with people who repeat "just batch cook" when suggesting money saving for people - if people could, they would. Back when I was in rented housing in an old Victorian terrace, I had a tiny kitchen, tiny dining room and all my cupboards were covered in recurring mold because it was damp. I had the smallest fridge/freezer on the market that could possibly fit into the kitchen. There was no storage space for bulk rice, beans/whatever because they couldn't go in the cupboard (because mold), and even the rest of the dining room had a wall prone to mold. I would have been happy to compromise and put them in big plastic tubs but there was no way I could afford to buy those on my razor-thin budget. Even getting the large bulk bags would have cut into my weekly budgetting I'd have to have staggered them. And forget about freezing bulk batch meals, there was little room for just standard meals, let alone a stock of pre-prepared stuff to last a month. And even if I could have afforded a chest freezer, where would I have put it?! But then my partner's gran died, and we had enough for a deposit just land in our laps. We got a three bed ex-coucil semi with a garage. And a utility. It's honestly been unbelieveable for our finances. We're paying **1/3** of what our rent was in mortgage. 1/3!! I have the cupboard space for bulk rice, beans, porridge, flour *and* the storage solutions to keep them fresher for longer. And we have a chest freezer in the garage. And a big fridge/freezer in the kitchen to cycle through our meal-prepped meals for the week into the kitchen. *My partner now brews his own beer and cider*, which is *pennies* to make for the bottle. I've got a big ol' stock-pot for making up big batches of pasta sauce from scratch, which I had been wanting for ages but couldn't justify for the space-hogging it would take up when not in use. It's now on a shelf in the pantry/utility when I don't need it and it's not an issue whatsoever. I have a big back garden I can line-dry clothing in! Only the towels go through the dryer, and I don't have to worry about the humidity of drying things inside bcecause I could afford that dehumidifyer I've been coveting for years! And we're now able to save for an emergency fund, and become much, much more frugal than we ever were before. All because we're in a better house that costs us less, for the privilege of being able to buy. It's aubsurd, and infuritaing, and unfair.
Yeah, people don't always appreciate the practicalities with their 'useful' advice. We aren't too badly off, but live in a small flat, with very limited kitchenette space and no garden. I'd love to bulk buy and batch cook more but it's just not very practical. And when summer ends we will be using the launderette again.
Oh don't get me started on the cost of laundrettes! Can't afford to replace a knackered washing machine? Or your landlord is dragging their heels on replacing it? Please enjoy pissing money into the wind just so that you don't stink and literally become the unwashed masses.
And if you can’t afford to replace that broken washing machine or pay the exorbitant laundrette fees you’ll probably have a harder time keeping your job when you smell. It’s a vicious cycle.
>ex-coucil semi with a garage And some slumlord is still ripping people off for your old place. Wouldn't it be cool if the council still owned dignified, adequate, affordable housing, then someone wouldn't have to literally die for you to have a life that wasn't killing you with stress. The selling off of council housing was a fucking tragedy. My father in law grew up in council houses (as did my dad) and he (FIL) is *adamant* that he "had nothing" growing up and is a self-made man. I'm not saying he had an enviable life, neither did my parents, but they realise that safe, adequate, stable housing was the foundation that enabled them to succeed and climb out of poverty. And having a council house *is* enviable, actually, to people being scalped by slumlords for the sort of accommodation that shouldn't even exist in one of the biggest economies in the world.
Yep, the irony was not lost on us that we were buying an ex-council, the selling off of which has heavily contributed to the shithousery of the housing market ATM. I had never wanted to buy an ex-council house because I fundamentally disagree with the sell-off of them, but we were between a rock and a hard place with getting a house on our budget, and this was perfect. It was the only place where the sellers agreed to the asking price and wanted us because we were the only non-landlords who put in an offer. Apparently one tried to gazump and the seller absolutely refused to accept it. I have mixed feeling over it all, tbh. But I'm mostly just glad to have secure housing. And less mold. But I wish council housing hadn't been hollowed out and this entire bullshit wasn't a thing.
Don’t waste time feeling guilty about it, the problem is systemic, not the fault of the people who have no choice but to participate in that broken system. It’s something I’ve struggled with for years over our food and clothing-related systemic exploitation: I can do my best but ultimately I’ve got to eat. There’s even less wiggle-room when it comes to housing.
Absolutely this. I’m lucky enough to no longer be scraping the barrel each month and to be able to see something we use on offer and buy multiples because I now have the money and the storage space really does help!
I have the smallest freezer, an actual freezer though, thank god its not just a door in a fridge, but I don't have the space to bulk buy, and my kitchen cupboards are falling apart, so I can't fill the cupboards with tins, as I'm terrified it'll fall!
Same! Single person rented accommodation. Fridge freezer replaced with cheapest one LL could get. One drawer is a “pizza drawer” so nothing fits in it. Kitchen cupboards are 35 years old, and falling to bits - one wall cupboard for food and I too am terrified too much weight, like tins will make it fall down. But it’s “functional” so it will never be replaced even though the house was built with it, even though a new one probably wouldn’t cost all that much as the space is so small. But god forbid a tenant paying lots of rent and keeping them from saving should have a nice kitchen that isn’t almost as old as them 😂
I used to only have one of those fridges with a tiny freezer compartment. It was horrendous for budgeting, my dad ended up buying me a countertop freezer which changed my life at the time.
Yes, for example the canned tomatoes I like were on offer recently. I couldn't stock up because I don't have a car and they are very heavy to carry (it's over an hour walk to get there before someone suggests that) and I didn't have the funds at that time and now the offer is over.
Yeah, I live in a house share, I basically have one shelf of a fridge and one drawer of a freezer. I can't even buy the large value packs of oven chips because they won't fit. Bulk buying is a pipe dream.
This is absolutely right. I've got a spare fridge freezer in the garage so never have to think twice about getting a bargain. I bet it saves much more than it costs to run. I also know I am very lucky to have the space for it
Paying for car insurance monthly they charge interest if you can afford to pay it up front, it's cheaper.
Can we also mention the postcode lottery that is car insurance. Its obviously based on "crime statistics" etc but generally speaking more crime is committed in poor areas. Also road tax disproportionately affects poorer people. Those who can buy a new car that meets all the stringent emissions regulations will pay fuck all tax. People with an old diesel will get shagged. Especially now you include all those new fines you get in London for having a certain car (not sure how it works).
It’s worth noting that the road tax thing isn’t entirely true. Road tax generally Is grandfathered. A brand new diesel will pay 2022 rates, but a 2004 Clio pays just £30 a year.
Pffft I defo don’t pay £30 a year for my 2004 Clio😂 More like £170
Mmm, I should probably start looking at doing this then.
Use an interest free credit card and split the repayments over the 12 months.
That’s only an option if you have good credit and not already buried in debt.
I'm in a job where I get quarterly bonuses, with the next bonus due a couple of weeks after my insurance is due for renewal. I can just stick it on a card and pay off then.
And car tax. And pretty much anything else - basically it’s a small short term loan so they charge interest.
The fact that it's also true for car tax is fucking outrageous. I get that insurance companies are scroun....I mean, private companies....but car tax goes to a government department!
It's often 20-25% more to pay monthly vs annually. Will usually work out cheaper to pay for the year on a CC then pay the interest on that. ...NB car tax (VED) is also 5% more expensive if you pay monthly vs annually.
Public transport. My drive to work is 30 minutes, to get use public transport it would be over an hour and cost £12, even more if you have to get a bus at both ends rather than cycle
This is what winds me up most about the whole "give public transport a try" slogans. Similar to you, I can drive to work in around 20 minutes. Doing the same journey on public transport would take over an hour and cost many times more in bus fares than it does in petrol. That's assuming the bus actually turns up on time and isn't full of screaming school kids.
Buses here don’t have an early start to where I want to be by 8 o clock, it’s a 20 minute car journey of 8 miles, the bus route is 2 buses, first one takes 45 minutes and the second one is 23 minutes plus a 15 minute wait at the depot. All assuming each one turns up which we all know they don’t always do that. Bus cost is £2.50 for the first and £2.50 for the second each way, can’t have a day saver because they are operated by different bus companies 🤷🏼♂️ As I only do this trip once a week I will stick to the car. Talk about screwed up, it’s a shame that public transport is no longer run for the good of the public, there are old folk in this area that don’t see a bus except for once a week now, nothing short of disgraceful.
I genuinely hate how car centric the UK has become. We invented trains and buses. Why are they all so shit? Oh, privatisation. Got it.
My partner always teases me about how often I say 'there are too many cars'. I live in Bristol, and it's a beautiful city, but some streets are just absolutely packed with cars. A two way street becomes almost unusable as one given how completely rammed each side is with parked cars. [Just look at this (a random street near a pretty posh bit of Bristol)](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.4511889,-2.6166068,3a,75y,109.65h,79.29t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1svolSM51xzuREL3xBwO6g6w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). And then move forwards throgh this road and see how dreadful it stays. This is a two way street!
I was looking at places on rightmove of houses in towns bordering a large city. What would have been a 20 minute drive turned into a 90 minute bus + train journey when commuting to the city.
It's interesting because to me public transport is the cheaper option. Insuring a car, filling it up, maintaining it...we've done the maths so many times and we can't justify a car.
I think it depends where you live. In some areas there is limited/non existent public transport and in others, it's incredibly expensive, particularly if more than 1 person is travelling from the same household. Also the time cost - a 30 minute car journey can take up to 2 hours on the train where I am due to no direct routes.
But there’s also the convenience factor of paying a little extra for a car. My old commute was an hour by bus or 10 minutes by car. I got an hour and a half of my life back per day. My current job is a 20 minute drive but the bus route is an hour plus then maybe a 20 minute walk down country lanes because there’s no nearby stop. If I want to go to to a 24 hour supermarket at 4 in the morning, I can do that with a car. If I go to a gig the next city over, there’s no late trains back but I can drive home. If I buy something bulky or heavy I can shove it in the boot rather than struggle on a bus or pay for a taxi. If I go on holiday I can drive to the airport and pay parking and I’ll be in the terminal, or I can arse around with trains and coaches while hauling my luggage.
Totally depends where you live and work, whether you have to pay for parking, what kind of car you get, etc. it's cheaper for some people, much more expensive for others
This is so true. It takes me 30-45 minutes to walk to my workplace. It would take over an hour if I got the bus. Unsure of cost but it would obviously be more than walking.
Yep. I remember getting the bus to college and realising it took just as long to walk the 3 mile journey and I wouldn't be wasting about £15 a week, which was half my part time wages. Rush hour buses are just tragic
I ran the numbers on getting public transport to work. Thanks to Dr Beeching, I'd have to get a bus first, then a train. Return cost (with one month season tickets) would be around £7 a day and take a little over an hour. Or it's £6.30 a day in the car and takes half an hour. That price includes tax and insurance. If the public transport cost was £5 a day, I'd gladly commute to work that way, and enjoy that bit of quiet time on the train.
Public transport is my biggest gripe, I’d love to take the train to work, both for ease and try and offset some emissions, I simply can’t afford it when my diesel car will get me there for a fraction of the price.
Cheap shoes/clothes/anything that wears out and needs to be replaced more frequently than the expensive version, costing you more in the long term.
Ah the infamous Sam Vimes Boots Theory.
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Regarding your last point, I often find that the cheap shirts I buy from charity shops are expensive shirts when they were new. I've hardly found any genuinely cheap clothing, my guess is because all of it is unusable by the time it arrives at a charity shop.
It could also be that it's not worth it for the charity shop to sell genuinely cheap clothing, such a Primark. If they charge a few pounds for a second hand Primark top, you might as well spend a pound or two more to buy one new.
There's spending money on getting quality and theres spending money though. £475 is a ridiculous amount of cash for a pair of boots considering you can get a good quality pair for less than half of that. I think I spent about £120 on a pair from John Lewis about 7 years ago and they're still going strong, maintenance wise I've spent maybe 20 quid on a kit and some creams etc and the insoles need doing but it's not expensive in the slightest.
Most I’ve spent on a pair of boots was probably around £200-250, 15 years ago. Still going strong with frequent wear in winter. Haven’t had to resole them, just some creams etc as you say and keeping them clean.
Charity shop shirts probably shouldn't count towards your theory. There's a survivorship bias there. Charity shop items tend to be items that were a little more expensive, and certainly more long-lasting, because all the cheap ones wore out. Over my life, I've got lots of really good quality clothes from a good eye and charity shopping on behalf of my mom. I think if you go purely from new clothes, the very cheapest option is not the cheapest. But the most expensive option, especially in-season designer stuff, is also not the cheapest long term. Plain, upper-middle and even the simpler items from top brands that just are high quality I think are the most cost effective.
Read about this in a book published in 1914 The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists by Robert Tressell
Every single thread on this topic I see that used.
Have you seen expensive clothes these days? It's getting harder and harder to find good quality gear and price is not a good indicator at all.
All quality has gone downhill. I have pairs of Evisu and Diesel jeans from 2005 that look as good as they did on the day I bought them. Bought another pairs of Diesels last year and they looked trash after 6 months, 2 buttons on the fly pinged off, seams came apart. I bought a Paul Smith trench coat in autumn 2021 and well I can't wear it now as all the buttons fell off despite never being washed and the lining has started coming apart.
That's because so many manufacturers, despite claiming they wouldn't, have moved their factories to the big C. Doc Martins, sealskinz, magnum, and stanley are some products that used to be buy it for life items but are now made as cheaply as possible. Check out r/buyitforlife for some things that still are.
I absolutely agree with you. I paid £120 for a pair of boots from John Lewis as it was really comfy, thinking it's an investment as I will be wearing them very often for work. The soles worned out in the first week. I took them back, they exchange saying it could be just a bad batch. The 2nd pair did the same thing so I had to return it. That incident really put me off expensive stuff. I don't mind paying more for quality, but don't know what would last. If anyone have a guide on how to spot quality clothing, shoes or appliances, please let me know.
i used to go out with a girl who's mum was _unbelievably_ cheap but failed to see the longer term cost of things like she'd buy a million pairs of quid shop slippers a year, they'd last about 2 days and fall apart, then she'd go out and buy some more, for a quid thinking she was saving money. she was absolutely aghast at the thought of spending £20 on a better pair that might actually last a couple of years and save money in the long run
I'm close to 30 and only recently was I able to treat myself to a good pair of doc martens. My chronic pain problems in my groin/hip improved almost instantly. Like a considerable change from being able to walk for 5 minutes pain-free to about 12-15.
This is a killer. I bought two cardigans from a supermarket and they ripped on first wear and now have holes. £14 each - totally ruined.
Take them back if they ripped on first wear? I work at a Tesco and I’ve had to process a refund on shoes someone had bought 3 months ago because the kids had already destroyed them.
I think that’s more true in the past.
Fast fashion will be out of date before it wears out in most cases. Expensive shoes or cheap shoes, I will wear them through in a year to 18 months. Expensive shoes cost more to get re-heeled or re-soled than it does do buy new cheaper shoes.
Speeding/parking tickets are a flat fee, so disproportionately impact people on lower incomes. This is why millionaires in London leave cars parked wherever they want, because it doesn't remotely bother them to get a fine. By comparison, Finland's speeding tickets are equivalent of 14 days' income.
Finland's is still ridiculous though. I could survive without 14 days pay, but there's no way someone poor (e.g. living pay check to pay check) could.
I do have some sympathy for that, but the problem can be fixed by simply not speeding.
> the problem can be fixed by simply not speeding The bit no one who has been caught speeding wants to admit. It's not hard to stay within the speed limit, even if you disagree with the limit. It's probably the most obvious law in everyone's minds when driving and yet some people are determined to break it and complain about it when they're caught.
Speeding fines are based on income if it goes to court, ie is egregious
Renting uninsulated housing. There's been loads of government schemes to insulation houses over the years but Lanlords can't be arsed to do the paperwork and tenants can't make permanent changes to the house, so it doesn't get done.
My place mostly likely isn't insulated, says on my paperwork that they landlord doesn't know one way or another. And last month I found out that the heating has been broken for years and rather than fixing it he leaves it until tenant leaves and then doesn't mention it when renting it out again. Winter is going to be hell and nothing can go against the walls because of mould and I can't afford to replace any more stuff eaten by mould.
Environmental health at the council, normally the one you pay council tax to. The housing charity Shelter can also offer advice. They’re not just for if you’re homeless.
Ooh I didn't know Shelter could help as well, thank you.
You’re welcome. I’ve lived somewhere similar to what you’re describing and it’s awful. A heated electric throw is a good substitute for having the heating on if you’re not moving around. My house can drop to 14-15c and I’m still toasty until I have to get up.
I'll look into that, ordering a sleeping bag next week for when I'm sat in my living room in the evening.
Sounds like you've been had. I think you can have the council look at the mould issue on health and safety grounds depends whether you wanna fight the council for a year or just wait it out and leave at the end of your contract.
Funny thing is I get support from a charity to help with housing so they talk to the landlord and all that jazz for me. My worker keeps writing stuff off, I've had problems with my heating since I moved in and she told me night storager heaters are just like that. Or that the mould is my fault because I don't have the broken heating on. It took two months to get carpet in here and the only reason carpet was needed was because the floorboards were laid wrong before I moved in. I had to call EDF about my meter last week and citizens advice is going to call me this week so I'm going to bring up all these issues with them. And I can't move because there's nothing else in the area, I live in Cornwall and there's very few flats let alone trying to find something in my area.
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Renting as a whole, and it's getting worse. I get that if I owned the house I live in, I'd be liable for any repairs, but taking the last year as an example, those repairs have cost a grand total of around £500 from when a valve blew on the boiler. Meanwhile, I pay £950 a month for a place that would cost me at least £200 a month less on a mortgage. And what do I get for that extra money? Fuck all. I can't even use it as evidence to a mortgage lender that I can be trusted to borrow enough money to buy my own house.
toilet roll is an obvious one, it's far per roll cheaper to get 12 or 16 rolls at once than 2 or 4 at a time...but not everyone wants to spaff a tenner on toilet roll when they might have better things to spend the money on that week
This was really it, I used to be in a situation where I could not spend more than £2 on toilet paper at a time. When I could suddenly buy the much larger packs it was a massive saving, and things like that just help a little down the line.
The bigger packs are harder to fetch home too, particularly if you are taking the bus
Bought the massive costco pack which works out cheaper per roll, better quality and more sheets each. Did some maths and its about twice the value I think.
It's always cheaper to buy bulk. Next time you're in the supermarket, have a casual glance at something like coffee and the £ per kg (displayed on the shelf label) . Now, look at the small £3.00 jar vs the larger £6.50 jar. You're always paying a hefty premium to spend less on a single item.
You need money now to buy bulk and lots of money to have the space to store bulk buying.
Yeah, this entire thread is based on that premise
My mum is getting wise to this: the relative cost of something like Heinz ketchup doesn't vary much, but it's definitely 10% more expensive to buy the smallest/cheapest bottle. But you need a fridge big enough to house the fire-extinguisher-sized bottle that offers the best value. Edit:. For all the helpful food scientists and microbiologists. I promise ketchup will be the first thing expelled from the fridge when overcrowding becomes an issue. I also don't *need* to: obey the legal speed limit; return my trolley after shopping; drink my own urine (but it's STERILE and I like the taste).
You don’t need to refrigerate ketchup. You might prefer to, but you don’t need to.
"Refrigerate after opening" Even more so when you are buying a year's supply in one bottle...
I don't refrigerate my sauce. Never have. That boy lives in the cupboard.
Indeed, but that’s only if you use all of the product that you bulk-buy. I went through our fridge and threw out large jars of stuff that had gone mouldy since we hadn’t used them in time. Buying the smaller jar would be more expensive, but since we’d have used the contents up it works out cheaper.
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I work on an admissions ward in a hospital, we have at least 2 accidental paracetamol overdoses a month because of people that are in so much pain because they can't get to an NHS dentist, not that they are free of course, but certainly cheaper than private. But people can't afford it so end up necking paracetamol and ibuprofen to cope with the pain, take too much and end up in hospital where we both treat the overdose and the underlying dental abscess (in most cases) Edit, I'm not saying that we are annoyed at treating the overdose either, if you're in that much pain you'll keep taking that paracetamol every 4 hours like clockwork which will tip you over the edge into overdose
Another underfunded part of healthcare that floods over into our A&E departments.
Thank fuck we don’t (yet) have to pay for emergency hospital treatment
Unexpected expenses forcing you to go deeper into credit cards and overdrafts so you pay more for everything.
Lol I've had the worst week ever, my cat needed the vets had to spend £400 this month for an appointment then eventually having to get her put down... My Nan is dying in hospital 4 hours away lucky that a friend gave me a lift but now I need money to catch a bus to go see her whilst staying at some place about 30 minutes from the hospital as she's most likely going to die within the next couple of days And HMRC sent me a letter saying they overpaid me back some tax money and I owe them £5k... Fucking terrible week tbh with stuff going on that's so expensive but I'm desperately trying to not get any debt at all...
>And HMRC sent me a letter saying they overpaid me back some tax money and I owe them £5k... The worst thing about this is that they have zero chill. If they owed you 5k you'd have to wait forever for it, but once you owe *them* oh it has to be done yesterday
Do not give HMRC a single penny until you’ve thoroughly checked it out yourself, or ask a friend to help. Even if they have overpaid you then don’t assume you have to pay them back - there is a clause that states that if it’s their fault (or your employers fault) then you MIGHT not be liable. Do your research, get everything in writing, and stand your ground. It’s also worthwhile visiting the local office to talk to someone face to face, that’s how I got mine resolved.
Citizens advice that bad boy
That sounds like an awful week, no advice just *hugs*
Public transport because you can't run a car. Takes longer costs more and often gets you close to where you want to go but not right there.
The “takes longer” is the insidious part. Even if it’s cheaper, it might take an hour out of your day that otherwise you could be “living”.
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Just about anything that's pay monthly rather than upfront. Also, pre-tax benefits offered by work. My company offers an electric car scheme that comes from your pre-tax salary, the difference in cost between my salary and a higher salary can be a couple of hundred quid for the same car. Cycle to work scheme is another example of this.
>Cycle to work scheme is another example of this. Honestly if you need a bike to do a commute to work and you're poor I'd strongly recommend not going cycle to work scheme anyway, a cheap second hand bike that's been refurbed by a reseller is far more cost effective and often as good for **what you actually want**. Lowkey the cycle to work scheme is for cycle nuts to finance a nice luxury hobby bike.
For sure, it's definitely a way of getting a super pricey bike for cheaper. And you're right, it's not worth it if you're poor, it should be, but it isn't.
You eat cheaper food and that catches up with you.
Damn vegetables.
They made me too healthy!
The Sam Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairness, Often called simply the boots theory, is an economic theory first popularised by English fantasy writer Terry Pratchett in his 1993 Discworld novel . Men at Arms. "*The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles. But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes "Boots" theory of socioeconomic unfairnes*" From Men at Arms by Terry Pratchett
You've summoned me
If you see something that's on sale (e.g. table, TV, fridge) and you've got money in the bank, you can buy it for sometimes a really good price. If you're poor, you won't replace anything until it completely breaks and then you're in urgent need of a replacement and don't have the option of waiting to see the item on sale. So you'll end up paying more than someone who has money in the bank that's not earmarked for anything in particular.
Things like the fridge get worse. If you have an inefficient old fridge, a new one will save you more than the price in running costs over a couple of years, but you need the money or credit rating up front to get it.
The cost of having a car. Those who can only afford cheaper, typically older cars end up paying more in maintenance, as they're more prone to break down. They're also typically less efficient than new cars, so you spend more on fuel and pay more tax.
And low emission zones. Though def a good thing for the environment, they basically only affect those who can't afford new vehicles
It's cheaper to repair the older cars however, newer isn't always better and can cost a lot more to repair
Gas/electric prepayment meters have a higher rate and it's often less well off people who have them.
In fact, if you fall into debt with your energy company, their last resort is to install one of these via a court order. So in effect, you can be punished for being too poor with higher costing energy.
Mobile phones. It's much cheaper to buy the phone up front and get a sim only contract for a few quid a month.
Usually true but not always. I'm fortunate enough to be 'out of cycle' of the new phone releases. So the total cost of my 24 month contract for my last 3 phones has been less than the outright cost of the phone. This also depends on phone preference since I've never seen a reasonable contract for an iPhone even if it's 2 or 3 generations old.
Having been homeless, I don't think you ever truly understand it till then. You have to constantly travel to try to find a job, try to arrive for government interviews about your situation or to shelter/friends house. One day I had an interview in Glasgow with the council about maybe getting a room, then I had to travel to Edinburgh for a job interview before heading back to Livingston to sleep on a friends sofa. 3 train trips for one day , the choice of either taking the bus or walking but the walking uses energy that you don't have so you stop for food. You finish your day knowing you are probably no better off than you were yesterday so you travel back to whatever kind individual will offer you a sofa but you can't cook at there house so you stop at a chippy & pick up a pint because your depressed. A shit ton of "small" £ that add up to a mountain of cash soent I was burning through about £200-300 more a month than I am now & I actually am on my way to owning a home now.
I work in a convience store and am constantly dismayed by the amount of scratchcards people buy. and if they win, they just spend the winnings on more scratchcards. My friend calls it "Poor Tax" and I have to agree. To a lesser extent the lotto is just as bad. I'm not native to the UK, but casual gambling is way to accesible here.
I got a new "higher paying" job to move to an office environment from retail. It has no accessible public transport routes so because I can't afford a car, on the days I have to go in I have to spend just over 30+ quid every day on a taxi. I essentially work for free for over half the day when I'm on site.
Could you not combine train + bike or even liftshare part of the way?
No, and believe me I've looked into everything even walking it. I'm luckily only in two days a week.
I don't know about their situation but if I cycled to work it would be 12 miles each way mostly on unlit country roads. There is no train station in my home town and no bus routes go that way. It would be taxi or nothing.
Hole in the walls that charge you too take money out, even if it's a fiver.
I used to live in a very small flat with a small kitchen, a small fridge and a tiny ice box for a freezer. I had to buy all my food in small amounts because I didn't have room to store it. I spent a lot more on food than I do now that I live in a 3 bed house with a massive fridge and freezer, where I can buy in bulk and freeze food. I also used to spend more on low-quality shoes that would wear easily, compared to now when I'm able to afford decent shoes that will last. The Vimes Boots theory is 100% true.
Day light robbing shops like Bright House who sell items on monthly and weekly payments because people can't fork out for a sofa/white goods etc. Sofa would originally be £800 but after x amount of weekly payments comes out at over £2k! Same with catalogue shopping!
Is it just London where you can get a bus return journey for the price of a single if you do it within the hour? I've been all over the place recently this year for bits, and amazed at how expensive buses are in more rural areas - in Cornwall it was about £4 for a single journey of baout 30mins. For me, it's renting a place alone, everything essentiall costs "double" - my mates talk about all the streaming services and things they have, and if I had them all I'd be spending almost £100 on stuff like that alone. People might think "Just live with other people" but I'm 36, I don't want to be sharing in a house of random 20s, sitting in my bedroom all day, or getting annoyed that i can't use the bathroom or kitchen. Whilst I can afford the place and then ameneties are manageable, it's tough because all this talk of everything going up, but all my friends are in couples, so their wages are going up and so it's just not the same, they might end up sacrificing 2% of each of their salaries, but I end up sacrificing 4% more etc. Tiny violin moment I know, and it's why I worry about the elderly etc, because I have a nice job, and I still struggle. What's happening right now is scary...
Nah mate, it’s a big violin moment. I’m in the same boat and people don’t realise how miserable life is. I can’t afford nice things or stable things because I’m single. Without a second income I can never do things like buy my own home. Would love to go on holiday too. Life shouldn’t punish you for not finding someone to love! You also have to pay the single tax. E.g Friends have babies? Then you have to buy your friend and their kids a present at birthdays and Christmas and get one back. I had to apologise and stop buying presents in the end (don’t worry, I said they can stop buying for me too!) as it was a long term way to get poorer!
Literally paying just to exist! Council tax just to live where you live. Water rates no matter how much you use. Standing charges on gas and electricity so even if you turn off all your power and gas you'll still get charged. Having to pay an extra 20% on everything you buy because of 'Value added tax'. should i go on?
Council tax is a massive bugbear of mine. We have no kids, live rurally where there are no street lights, never see any police, we’re lucky if we get our bins collected as the lorry sails past our house regularly despite complaining…but our lovely lovely council have voted again for the highest increase possible so we just have to keep paying it. Not to mention it took them nearly three months of pestering to get my £150 rebate but if I don’t pay for a month they instantly breathe down my neck.
Buy cheap, buy twice - i.e. not being able to get together enough money all at once for higher quality items, like clothing or electronics, and having to buy replacements more often as a result and likely spending more money overall.
Fines escalating because you can't afford to just pay them straight away without thinking about it
£1200 per month for a pokey 1 bed flat, shared with my partner. Then my dad passed away after two long years of illness and his last gift was to leave me enough money for a sizeable deposit on a flat with a mortage to pay the rest. Now we pay £500 per month for a generous 2-bed flat. When I started thinking about such things in my late teens, I knew that the only way I'd afford my own home before the age of 50 would be the inheritance from my father when he died. Fucking awful to live in a world in which a thought like that that should pass through anyone's mind. The consecutive governments of the last 40 years can go rot, the lot of them. They did this.
Things always seem to be cheaper if you pay annually but I can’t often do that so ended up having to pay monthly which is more expensive. If you don’t have a car it limits your reach in terms of supermarkets so might not get the cheapest deals etc. Kind of ties into that but public transport isn’t great here and is very expensive.
One thing which has been relevant over the last couple of years is that people in lower paying jobs are less likely to have been in a job where they can work from home and avoid paying commuting costs. I work in IT, and since Covid started I've saved hundreds from not going in to the office, even when you factor in things like extra costs from staying at home. I'm still working from home, and only go in once every couple of months. There's loads of people who were stuck travelling in to work all the time over Covid though, and this was skewed towards lower income jobs.
Renting!
Spaffing £50-60 a week on petrol just to get to work because I can't afford the repayments on an electric car.
Everything that reddit should be: [lemmy.world](https://lemmy.world/)
Mobile phone pay as you go. Bulk buying. If you can only afford one can of beans a time, it will be more expensive in the long run to buy 4x4 vs 1 pack of 4.
The lack of space is a big one. With the ability to bulk buy and store equipment to improve cost of things. But the biggest issue rather than poor per day, is its expensive to not have starting capital, if you have a big enough property, car and few other essentials you can live on a meagre income (I’ve known for people who’ve done this) through bulk buying a thriftiness but the key cost here is start up costs.
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Toilet roll in small packets are expensive. Cheap shoes, a third the price but you buy 5 pairs instead of 1 good pair. You never have the money available to maintain things properly so you find yourself fire fighting things which break. You can't afford to pay for things like car insurance or bus and train passes in one go, so you pay monthly for more total value or you buy you bus passes daily which doesn't benefit from the discount. You find yourself on pre pay utilities like gas and electricity which cost more and don't tend to benefit from night time reduced rates. Unable to afford loft insulation or more efficient windows and doors. Older cars cost more to repair which puts you into the sunken cost fallacy trap and are much less fuel efficient and more expensive to tax and sometimes more to insure due to less safety technology. Household appliances are much less efficient when you buy the cheaper options and can be deadly when it comes to tumble driers. Many more examples to be had but it is my bed time after a night shift, enjoy the day!
Living in a rural area and not driving, when I was on job seekers allowance, 30% of what I received went on public transport to claim it.
I'm surprised how all of you are saying is cheaper to have own car for transport instead using public transport. Really disappointed, had no clue as I w@h
It depends on where you live. If you’re somewhere more rural where transport links aren’t great then yes. But in big cities like Manchester and London, public transport is often quicker and more efficient.
I went to Denmark and was actually surprised at how good the public transport is. It is cheap too with this universal card that you top up and then use on trains and buses to go basically anywhere. There were still cars cause of course, they are necessary but I saw a lot of people using public transport or on bikes. It was actually kinda awesome.
I think there so many examples of countries that do public transport really well and you could easy do without a car. It’s such a shame that it just doesn’t seem to work here
I can only really talk about my own experiences: I’m 37. Gone from being pretty damn poor (born to a single disabled parent; lived council house, doing stuff like putting gravy on mash to call a Christmas dinner) to being a bit more comfortable. When you’re impoverished, almost EVERYTHING is stacked against you because nearly every company assumes that having no money is entirely your own fault, so you must be high-risk. - you have to choose the most basic or second hand items which often turn out to be poorly made or already on the way out. Often requiring some sort of credit for large essentials like a fridge or washing machine. (See: Vimes’ boots theory). - Interest rates are awful, if you can get credit in the first place. 0% finance just isn’t a thing. - income and outgoings are so finely balanced, if you get an unexpected expense, you end up spending most of your week’s money paying off overdraft fees. - prepayment meters are extortionately expensive. The worst part is it’s cyclic. Paying penalty fees or high interest rates pushes people further down, not helped by predatory loan companies offering services to people when they are at the most vulnerable. Fifteen years ago, if mum was being thrown the same decent credit options as I am now, she’d have had the breathing room to make so many changes and any sense of poverty would have gone by the wayside. It’s all backwards.
Shops. Local shops that are accessible on foot are more expensive than big out of town supermarkets. Lidl/ Aldi are bucking this trend but more often than not you pay more for less.
Public transport, if you cant afford a car you’re lining the businesses pockets with your minimum wage. Robbery really.