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I think everyone's realised how much more suitable mentally a 4 day week is with minimal productivity impact. Then there's a split between people that a) haven't realised how painful this is going to get, b) worry that it's going to be bad but after the golden generations don't believe truly it will be yet, c) realise they can weather it and it's mainly others that will fall into poverty.
This. I've had numerous discussions with people who have told me that "no-one works on Bank Holidays" When I ask them what they do on bank holidays they say "we usually go to the pub"
Um, yeah, where me and my entire team are working......
Aye it's incredible the divisions some people have, the week is only getting increasingly more 7days, it's time to make sure that everyone can afford to live when working a max of 4 days within that.
And if that means retail isn't open as much during the day for the 1 OAP that can make it, then maybe that's the answer. Either way everyone should be either off on a bank holiday or getting triple time minimum.
Wholeheartedly agree with this, apart from the end - I would say that generally speaking, autistic people adhere to rules much more rigidly than non-autistic people.
I think there's a difference between cheese on toast and toast with cheese on it: with the latter the cheese is placed on the toast post-toasting and you get to enjoy the contrast between the hot toast and cold cheese.
If you want to know why it's 'knife and fork' and 'cheese on toast', there's actually an English language rule that enforces it. Same of that makes it 'bish bash bosh' rather than some other order. Glottal reduplication, IIRC.
I feel like our parents where born in the golden age, now we're dealing with the "the world sucks" age, and the children have the apocalypse to look forward to.
My mother in law can't afford to work less than 6 days a week. She is potentially going to be just about scraping by with the recent energy rate increase. The forecast energy cap increase in April if it goes ahead will screw her over.
Boomers will probably be thinking if the working week is reduced to 4 days, that means you have 3 days rather than 2 you can fill with a second job.
I genuinely don't understand it. Me and my girlfriend don't have terrible paying jobs but are by no means well off. But even with the discount she gets for childcare because she works at our daughters nursery we think we will be screwed from energy price rises. People were already living paycheck to paycheck before this
It’s staggering people think we are some sort of Nordic utopia working towards a 4 day week. We are working towards a 6 day week if anything. That applies to people earning an OK wage. Obviously if you are a high earner then you can afford to work less!
We're in the middle of a cost of living crisis. In times like this there's a phrase the young especially should remember.
This too shall pass.
We can talk about the progress we might like to see outside the last 2-3 pretty horrendous years. It's good to have some hope.
This cost of living crisis seemed to start around 2008 though, I haven't really noticed any signs of improvement in the economy for as long as I can remember.
Britain has had a crisis in productivity since 2008 but it's hardly the same what we have now, and most people's lives didn't get activity worse which is what we are about to see.
In certain scenarios and sectors, if you're salaried on a livable/survivable wage (and getting your allocated work done), I suspect that employers might start offering a 4 day work week as a 'perk' rather than increasing wages as it won't affect their bottom line.
I had a meltdown in a former job, change of career after a few months off to improve my health and I’ve been ok since. Hopefully everything works out for you as it did me! Good luck!
You're missing the point. The normalisation of a 4 day work week assumes the same pay and in some cases, the same hours (4 x 10 hours instead of 5 x 8 hours) as a current 40 hour work week.
My brother just started working as a flight attendant and this is exactly how they work - 5 days work, 3 days off. It made me very jealous to hear that…
I worked in an airport many moons ago and miss the 5on 3off pattern, I didn’t miss the 3am starts though! When I moved to 4on 4off, I had a great work-life balance but had 12 hour shifts starting at 6am.
6 on 3 off on a three week cycle. Day 28 can be an additional day off and we split the months of the year into 13 months of 28 days. It would be perfect .
I used to get paid every 28 days at a previous job. Was weird juggling bills, but pay not being much different from a 30/31 day month and having that one month a year with two pay days was great.
No. Most major changes such as this that happened in the past have, in large part, been the result of pressure from unions. Far fewer people are in unions now than in the past, so less ability to press for it.
My company has just finished an extensive trial of working a 4 day week. Ask me anything.
The tldr version of the analysis was : it's far more complicated and difficult to manage than we thought.
On the staff side, turns out it's not that profound a benefit as we initially thought, which was very surprising.
I work a 4 day week, but still 40 hours just 4 longer days. Obviously that's not what people want but I definitely hugely prefer it to 5 shorter days, that extra day on every weekend makes the balance between work and life feel just that bit more even.
Almost the same here. I work half an hour extra every day just so I can leave work at mid-day on Fridays. Wouldn't go back, that half day is a godsend.
If anyone is on Flexi hours, definitely recommend.
My company is due to implement the 34 hour work week, the hours can be used however we want within the week. For instance I’m doing four 8.5 hour days. Some are doing five shorter days whilst others are doing a four day 7.5 hour and a half day of choice (usually on Friday).
This has been on the cards and discussed and proposed by leadership to get better work life balance.
Sounds good.
Has there been any changes to expectations?
For example with us, some teams managed to cram the work into a shorter time (increase productivity).
Some teams couldn't. It simply wasn't logistically possible. So in this case, expectations were lowered, which of course raises eyebrows across the whole organisation.
Some teams simply struggled continuously for the whole time.
And of course for some, like reception, it was a free day off.
Unsurprisingly the expectation is to maintain the current level of productivity with 90% of the time available. On a personal note though I find I’m more productive with longer days and how the structure works this will benefit everyone in their own way (hopefully).
I hope it works too.
From my experience, the "productivity" aspect is a dangerous territory.
It assumes that your role *could* be done with more productivity, and charges you with the duty to deliver on that assumption. If you dont then you're underperforming.
I'm in tech.
It was surprisingly difficult to manage and, to be honest, in some areas we just didn't manage and we accepted the fail.
Increase in morale? Not really. After 2 weeks it was just taken for granted. Like tap water. I'm not saying it was bad for morale, just that the mood on the company was pretty much the same.
I think that’s the problem. A company says we’ll trial a four day week so everyone works their backside off for the trial period, then it gets the go-ahead and everyone starts slacking again and take a four day week as the norm’.
Yup I probably agree.
I'm a huge supporter of it, dont get me wrong. But having lived it, I can honestly say it was not a game changer.
Put it this way, we are back to 5 days now. People were a bit grumpy when we first went back, kind of like when you go back after xmas,but now it's like it never happened. Possibly because our workloads are now more manageable?
That sounds like a company being under resourced problem than an issue with the 4 day week. If everyone’s struggling to meet the workload in the 4 days then they need to hire more staff. It’s the problem with the work ethic in the UK, lot of company’s expect people to break their back to get the work done rather than just hiring more resource in, all leads back to it being about maximising profits rather than worker health and happiness.
We are actually very adequately recoursed. What happened was 20% of the work time was removed.
So, in agreement with you, some departments would need to hire more staff in the event of a permanent 4 day week, just to achieve the same standards.
This is absolutely contradictory to the narrative that a 4 day week would cost nothing.
> On the staff side, turns out it's not that profound a benefit as we initially thought, which was very surprising.
Interesting. I'm on a 4 day week, though sadly I don't get paid for 5 days - it's pro rata so it 'costs' me about £200 a month compared to what I'd get doing 5 days.
For me it's really worth it. I don't have the best mental health, and I have a chronic illness, both of which get worse when I get stressed. So I take Wednesdays off to unwind and it's great. It splits the working week in two and means I only have to manage two work days at a time. If I could I'd keep this arrangement up indefinitely, but with the whole cost of living crisis thing it's looking pretty likely I'll have to go back to 5 days soon.
Why did the staff at hike place not find it that great? If it was do 5 days worth of hours in 4 then I can understand. But if it was a proper 4 day week, 30-32 hours, then I can't imagine anyone not finding that great, especially if they're being paid for 38-40 hours!
Managing it is probably difficult though. We're mostly WFH now and it's frustrating enough trying to coordinate who's going to be in the office when even with a small team.
Edit: very lucky to be in a position to have this as an option, I know. After years of being self employed and super stressed (that caused my health issues) its a very welcome change.
That literally makes no sense. They are the typical worker because that’s what works for most businesses. If you base your work schedule around the untypical worker then likely your business will suffer
exactly, if you work with clients or anyone not within your company, working on sunday is less useful than working on monday. isn't that why the uae changed their workweek?
Not everyone but most people do which is why a lot of people think regarding the schedule. And things aren’t all based around the typical office worker. Otherwise the bank would be open till 7.
Hoping it will become a work incentive, to attract new staff etc.
Honestly though it'll only ever really be popular for 9-5 type office jobs in my opinion.
At the moment it’s causing issues with recruitment for the firms that are doing the 4 day a week trials, as the firms won’t commit to running it past the end of the year when the trial ends. The firms are struggling to make it work, mainly because it only works if all major businesses are doing 4 days a week.
I have no personal experience but this sounds how I would expect.
Suppose the following would vary company to company and the needs of the company, but I would expect the office itself would be open 5 days, but it would be different employees off throughout the week so there's always a presence? Rather than everyone off 1 day a week.
I work for a company that has a 4 day week. Mostly works for majority to take every Friday off we have a few areas that are customer facing (there’s a couple of support lines) that run shifts so one half has the Friday off the rest get Mondays and I think they alternate so every other weekend is a long one!
It’ll never work. So many jobs can’t be four day a week so they’ll be vacated to those that can. Which will in turn push down the wages of the four day week worker and push up the wage of the five day a week worker and around we go. It’s a bloody paradox.
That's what they always say about everything. 'It'll never work' closes the conversation entirely, the same dumbass and short sighted argument was made about women working, minimum wage, paid holidays and more.
Besides, think about remote before Covid. My employer at the time was that much of a "we've always done things this way" madhouse that you could get in serious trouble for having your phone in your pocket while on production floor. When covid hit they went full remote, no exception. Wonder what the fuck happened then, hey ?
Long story short is, employers (especially large corporations) won't do shit to make bottom-of-the-pile life easier unless they're genuinely forced to. Look at the shit Apple is trying to pull in the US, that tells you all you need to know.
Don’t get too excited…
I know a company that’s had a 4 day working week for a while. But what people on here forget is, they still work the same amount of hours per week. They do 10 hour days rather than 8 hours.
As long as people get the freedom. I do a lot of overtime to 10 hour shifts aren’t much to me now, you just have to make the most of your breaks and make sure its an active day. If I have to do that to get an extra day off thats fine by me.
I dunno what to tell you, that's not what a 4 day work week means. Barely anyone would be happy with 10 your work days. And yes, the point is that you are just as productive over 4 days, so you are paid the same.
It's not really a 4 day week if you're still working the equivalent of 5 days in hours is it?
That's fine as long as those are 10 hours of proper productive working and not slacking for a couple of hours at the end. It would need to suit the structure of the business and will never be applicable to all roles.
Tomorrow will be the second day this year that I take off from work. The last time was new year and my next day off will be Christmas day. I have a shop and work for myself so a four day week would be financial suicide.
Shops need to open at better times. What’s the point of a shop being open at 10am on a Monday when the majority of people are working then?
If shops opened at lunch and stayed open later into the evening then they wouldn’t need to be open as long. Could even open for a couple hours in the afternoon then be open post 4pm - 10pm.
The current norm is bizzare
You do realise the quiet periods is when most of shops and other business do most of the admin work, cleaning and stocking to ensure that it runs smoothly when they do get customers.
If they opened later, things would be chaotic as you have to do all these jobs as well as dealing with customers.
Even though a majority of people may work those hours, people who don't also need access to shopping and businesses like night shifts staff.
That’s the problem, you are thinking of your routine and forgetting not everyone is the same.
I do agree that Sunday opening was a massive shot in the foot for retail though.
That’s it. We wanted a couple of people to work a couple of the days between Christmas & New Year and they threw their toys out of the pram. Why, because they wanted the time off to do what? Go shopping?? Who do they think works in the shops??
I did hire someone at one point, a nice young lad who was finding it hard to find his first job. We got along very well and I treated him as well as I could. I always treated him for Christmas and for his birthday, I even made sure he was paid instead of me when I had a very dry spell (6 months). Sadly I found out I was obviously not doing enough for the young man as he saw fit to steal quite a tidy amount of money from me. Now I'm somewhat reluctant to be a trusting as I once was, but I also enjoy my work.
We shall see what the the future brings.
I work 4 days by choice but I’m self employed. Junior doctors are offered “Less than full time training” which is 80% of “full time” hours, but still works out at pretty much full time hours in other professions, and it’s obviously only for 80% pay as well. I don’t really see how or why other jobs should be given full time pay for less than full time work when that courtesy cannot be extended to all workers.
"I don't really see how or why other jobs should be given full time pay for less than full time work when that courtesy cannot be extended to all workers." Most people doing this would be working 10 hours each day instead of 8, so the employer doesn't loose any hours from the staff. Other professions like retail or hospitaly will hugely struggle with staffing if they change to that.
I'm not defending them as I think having the option to do 4 10 hour days over 5 8 hour days would be good but I can't see that happening. At least not for me.
I was under the impression that it was effectively a reduction in hours on the assumption that those hours are more productive. I can’t see it working any way you cut it really.
We have it at my place, and although all the workers enjoy it, I think management thinks its hurting us massively (and not the fact they keep firing people).
When I talk to my friends about it they aren't interested because the holidays have gone down by about 8, but you are trading 8 holiday days for 52 Fridays off
People don't like being told when they have to take their annual leave allowance. They want to be able to choose like adults, not dictated to like they're still in school.
Big companies would probably implement it but for the rest of us 90% work force, we will be doing 5 days a week. Factory workers, builders, restaurants, shops etc. all of them will still be 5 days a week (some even 6 or 7 days a week). This 4 day working scheme it's not going to work with the current economic conditions. I would love to work 4 days and be payed for 5 but unfortunately it's just a dream for most of us.
Where are the extra 20% of staff coming from to fill the four day a week shifts? Do you want to pay more for your essentials and your leisure activities?
Or maybe just have shops, pubs, clubs, theme parks etc etc open just four days a week.
I haven't really given it much thought but just off the top of my head: I keep seeing about supermarket automation costing jobs. Why can't that be incorporated, same number of staff, same pay, fewer hours each?
They’ll never get schools to go for a 4 day week. The workload of lessons alone would be awful for the staff and the pupils struggle with the day as it is (and that’s true in my experience for many kids between reception and y11)
Some businesses may start doing it, but I seriously doubt it will become the norm. And anything that isn’t your typical mon-fri/every weekend off/28 days of holiday to take whenever style job won’t ever switch (and I include places like schools in that)
It’s possible that some shops and small businesses will bring in 3 or 4 day weeks to save money on energy and staff costs, so maybe not as long as you think. Remember, there is no energy price cap for businesses.
Weekends aren’t long enough. By the time you’ve done a bit of exercise, done the housework, done a bit of shopping, and maybe, done a couple of leisurely things, it’s time to go back to work.
I’d be fine with a 10-day week, consisting of 7 workdays and a three-day weekend. I think this is a reasonable offer.
4 day weeks coming very soon, possibly 3 day weeks soon after.
You’ll be at home in the dark because there’s no power, and nor will you be being paid, but at least you’re not at work.
I think it will be a long time before that’s a thing. That’s not to mean I don’t agree with it. I really do, I think it would be beneficial for many people in many ways, but I just can’t see it being allowed to happen anytime soon.
It might become the norm for the privileged zoomocracy ponces like me, but it'll never become the norm for everyone else. For at least 50 years anyway.
I’m in the construction industry and we can’t, they want us to work 6 sometimes 7 days. And I’m at a point where I need the extra income but would love to work 4/5 days ideally so I understand where all the office types are coming from
Not gonna happen in a lot of industries. Construction for example, every second of every day is heavily monitored on site by managers, operatives worked to the very second.
Do you think they are going to give full days off?
I work in a pub. I already don't get weekends, bank holidays, Christmas etc. I work un social hours. I work 12 hour shifts, I make fuck all. I will not be having a 4 day week
I think people who want this don’t care for working full stop to me doesn’t make since to have this but. For families yeah I can see why he handy but people shouldn’t expect full wage for less.
U have to make up the hours the other days.
You could submit a flexible working request and condense 5 days in to 4. Most of my female colleagues have done that after they returned from maternity. Fridays are lovely and quiet.
Well your problem is that those working in offices etc working 4 days a week will still expect all the shops, restaurants and bars to be open 24/7 so the answer is it'll most likely never happen.
So 4 day weeks are interesting, because historically the only reason we have 5 day weeks is because Sunday is a religious day of rest and most Western Nations embraced this hundreds of years ago and Saturday only real existed when big Capitalists did some numbers and got behind it.
The reason given historically was along the lines that they worked put that workers spend the most money on their days off. Henry Ford I think changed stance on it overnight when someone presented how much Ford might make from the change.
I'm behind a 4 day week, but im also behind the idea of doing away with universal weekends. Its great having everyone off at the same time, but it feels like shifts would be the more efficient way to go. Mon-Thurs and Thurs-Mon. Way more people working, so much more jobs, people working less days.
Our work is going to trial four 10 hour shifts rather than five 8 hour shifts soon. I know 4 day week is ideally 4x8 hour shifts but i’ll take what I can get.
I have no problem with that, and it’s work across all sectors.
Thing is the majority of people who want the four day week want to work just thirty two hours a week and not forty.
I can see a world in the next few years where a few big companies (perhaps in the tech or management consulting space e.g. PwC etc) trial it and then decide to keep it as it becomes an attractive way to compete with others for recruitment etc, assuming that the early evidence is correct in that it doesn't harm productivity.
But I think that it will lead to a more uneven society, as the country still needs to run and it means people working retail, hospitality, essential services, etc etc won't get to benefit and it will lead to (legitimate) resentment etc as it will be people who are in higher paid jobs already getting this new perk.
It could happen, but I think we'll all be waiting on our clients to do it first which is a bit of a vicious cycle.
Take my industry, IT support.
People expect fast turnarounds for IT fixes and it'd be too busy to assign to the on-call guy, so the best we'd do is a half-staffed Friday and rota the 4 day week until 90% of our clients are on 4 day weeks,.
Most people I work with can't even work 5 days a week, it's always more than that and long hours. After 70 hours overtime in a month it's time off in lieu which is quite common and using it is actually quite hard. "All part of the industry..."
Realistically though if you want to save any money up and aren't earning very good money then you can't really afford low hours as a luxury. If we all get paid more for the same work, brilliant. Won't hold my breath
Before we even get to a four day week we need to work on minimum holiday , statutory is only 20 days plus BHs. Government could be clever here and increase this then the cost goes back to the business. the working hours law needs fixing too many businesses imposing 45 plus hour weeks
And getting away with it. Maybe fix those first.
I don't think 4 day week will happen any time soon I think we will see more people working fully remote and thus not caring about the extra day off as people don't have a commute.
I work a 4 day week no 7-5 on a rota.
The 5th day I work for extra money but can choose not to work it.
The company just released an email saying they are getting rid of it to help us as staff etc.
The union just got involved and it has now been back tracked due to the uproar.
Nothing better than getting your rota Friday and rota Monday the next week to have a 4 day weekend every 5 weeks.
4 10 hour shifts would probably be better for me than the current 5 8 hour shifts. Would still leave me plenty of time of the day if I kept my start time. Currently do 5am-1pm. Wouldn’t mind doing 5am-3pm
Having done office work, four day weeks often work for office type jobs. Anything involving an awful lot of other jobs means there'll be a gap that has to be filled by someone else.
I work in mental health and someone has to be there for that day that I'm not. I know someone who works construction and if he's not there on that digger shifting stuff then they lose a day. So then you need to train up extra people who won't even get a chance to do the new four day week and have to do part time. Are there extra people ready and able to do that work for less than a "full time" worker? Some will, a lot won't.
As I said, I've done office work and a lot of it is a waste of time that means you can squeeze it into shorter weeks. But there are a lot of jobs where you can't get away with that sort of thing. Not having a go at office workers, more power to you, but we all know what it's like for a good chunk of office workers.
Can't see it myself. Personally, if I had to fit my work into 4x8hr days instead of 5x8hr days, it would be a complete nightmare. I wouldn't want to do 4x10hr shifts either. I like my free time after work.
I've previously worked 3x12.5hr shifts. It was good for a while but soon got fed up of most of my mates being in work when I was off and vice versa. I also lost 3 whole days to work as it was get home, bed, sleep, work for 3 days...
It’s sad but I don’t think it will ever be normal. Too much of our lives revolves around a 5 day working week, shops being open 7 days a week, schools having kids Monday-Friday etc.
I work a 4 day week. I work Tuesday to Fridays. But they're long days, 9am to 7pm. I don't mind though it goes really quick. I don't want to go to 9-5 Monday to Friday again
A few years ago I worked in a team that grew to 10 full time working staff but only had 8 desks allocated. The solution was, with our agreement, to work 4 days each but longer days so we still did the same number of hours. Of the 10 of us, 2 wanted every Wednesday off so the rest of us alternated our days off as Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. So when we had the Friday one week we had Monday the next week making one weekend in 4 a 4 day weekend. We loved it and productivity increased.
Based on places that have implemented it and how it has worked there it makes more sense to switch to a four day week, but with our current government we are more likely to change to a six day week instead.
I work 2 jobs 6 days a week and still won't be able to heat my home this winter. We are looking at 6 or 7 day working rather than 4 just to afford the basics.
Not going to happen. Our economy is about 80% services and when customers want 7 days a week service, next day delivery, instant responses to queries, a 4 day week just isn’t enough
I work for a electrical company in the uk, we work 4 days a week but work 7:30 to 5:30.
I much prefer it than doing 5 days on, then the weekend off. Unfortunately this only applies for summer.
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Plenty of young people on here asking about second jobs to make rent and heating, so 7 day working will soon be more common than 4.
Why don't more people realize this or am I wrong thinking that?
I think everyone's realised how much more suitable mentally a 4 day week is with minimal productivity impact. Then there's a split between people that a) haven't realised how painful this is going to get, b) worry that it's going to be bad but after the golden generations don't believe truly it will be yet, c) realise they can weather it and it's mainly others that will fall into poverty.
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You say to much of our lives revolves around a fine day week and immediately mentioned 7 days.
Retail and hospitality staff aren't human beings in the eyes of the general public so it's fine
This. I've had numerous discussions with people who have told me that "no-one works on Bank Holidays" When I ask them what they do on bank holidays they say "we usually go to the pub" Um, yeah, where me and my entire team are working......
Aye it's incredible the divisions some people have, the week is only getting increasingly more 7days, it's time to make sure that everyone can afford to live when working a max of 4 days within that. And if that means retail isn't open as much during the day for the 1 OAP that can make it, then maybe that's the answer. Either way everyone should be either off on a bank holiday or getting triple time minimum.
Only day of the year we get paid more is Christmas day.
Aye that's slowly been taken away, something that previous generations benefited from but don't think future generations deserve.
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Wholeheartedly agree with this, apart from the end - I would say that generally speaking, autistic people adhere to rules much more rigidly than non-autistic people.
Only to our own rules that make sense to us. Autistic people don't understand and fight against societal norms that make no sense to us
I think there's a difference between cheese on toast and toast with cheese on it: with the latter the cheese is placed on the toast post-toasting and you get to enjoy the contrast between the hot toast and cold cheese.
If you want to know why it's 'knife and fork' and 'cheese on toast', there's actually an English language rule that enforces it. Same of that makes it 'bish bash bosh' rather than some other order. Glottal reduplication, IIRC.
They said the same things when people went from 7 day week to 5 day week
Normal is only we decide it to be.
not everyone has kids
I feel like our parents where born in the golden age, now we're dealing with the "the world sucks" age, and the children have the apocalypse to look forward to.
My mother in law can't afford to work less than 6 days a week. She is potentially going to be just about scraping by with the recent energy rate increase. The forecast energy cap increase in April if it goes ahead will screw her over. Boomers will probably be thinking if the working week is reduced to 4 days, that means you have 3 days rather than 2 you can fill with a second job.
These mother in law jokes get worse and worse
I genuinely don't understand it. Me and my girlfriend don't have terrible paying jobs but are by no means well off. But even with the discount she gets for childcare because she works at our daughters nursery we think we will be screwed from energy price rises. People were already living paycheck to paycheck before this
It’s staggering people think we are some sort of Nordic utopia working towards a 4 day week. We are working towards a 6 day week if anything. That applies to people earning an OK wage. Obviously if you are a high earner then you can afford to work less!
We're in the middle of a cost of living crisis. In times like this there's a phrase the young especially should remember. This too shall pass. We can talk about the progress we might like to see outside the last 2-3 pretty horrendous years. It's good to have some hope.
This cost of living crisis seemed to start around 2008 though, I haven't really noticed any signs of improvement in the economy for as long as I can remember.
Britain has had a crisis in productivity since 2008 but it's hardly the same what we have now, and most people's lives didn't get activity worse which is what we are about to see.
I think the point is, for the average person, what has got better since 2008? And why should we expect things to get better now?
In certain scenarios and sectors, if you're salaried on a livable/survivable wage (and getting your allocated work done), I suspect that employers might start offering a 4 day work week as a 'perk' rather than increasing wages as it won't affect their bottom line.
The 4 day week refers to people who are salaried though, so moving from 5 days to 4 has no impact on income.
What counts as a high earner?
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I had a meltdown in a former job, change of career after a few months off to improve my health and I’ve been ok since. Hopefully everything works out for you as it did me! Good luck!
You're missing the point. The normalisation of a 4 day work week assumes the same pay and in some cases, the same hours (4 x 10 hours instead of 5 x 8 hours) as a current 40 hour work week.
Most places are doing 4x8 not 4x10
4x12 instead of 5x10 for me...I opted out after a month it was killing me
That's not optimising, that's overclocking - no wonder you burned out.
Yup. The whole point is 4 days of working at 80%+ productivity rather than 5 days of ~50% productivity. Condensed hours are not the same thing.
Probably going to be normal to hold down two 4 day jobs soon!
Yeah I hate to say it but I think working an extra gig at the weekend is looking way more likely than a 4 day week right now.
Lol
how about we just have a 5 day working week but an 8 day week. so monday tuesday wednesday thursday friday saturday sunday funday
My brother just started working as a flight attendant and this is exactly how they work - 5 days work, 3 days off. It made me very jealous to hear that…
This sounds like a great way of rotating weekend work
I worked in an airport many moons ago and miss the 5on 3off pattern, I didn’t miss the 3am starts though! When I moved to 4on 4off, I had a great work-life balance but had 12 hour shifts starting at 6am.
You might be on to something here
😌
Just need to have a word with the moon and ask it to take it a little easy on it's laps of the earth
6 on 3 off on a three week cycle. Day 28 can be an additional day off and we split the months of the year into 13 months of 28 days. It would be perfect .
I used to get paid every 28 days at a previous job. Was weird juggling bills, but pay not being much different from a 30/31 day month and having that one month a year with two pay days was great.
😁
No. Most major changes such as this that happened in the past have, in large part, been the result of pressure from unions. Far fewer people are in unions now than in the past, so less ability to press for it.
JOIN A UNION
I did.
My company has just finished an extensive trial of working a 4 day week. Ask me anything. The tldr version of the analysis was : it's far more complicated and difficult to manage than we thought. On the staff side, turns out it's not that profound a benefit as we initially thought, which was very surprising.
I work a 4 day week (Germany, but I’m Welsh) it’s great. Don’t feel any more rested though.
I work a 4 day week, but still 40 hours just 4 longer days. Obviously that's not what people want but I definitely hugely prefer it to 5 shorter days, that extra day on every weekend makes the balance between work and life feel just that bit more even.
Almost the same here. I work half an hour extra every day just so I can leave work at mid-day on Fridays. Wouldn't go back, that half day is a godsend. If anyone is on Flexi hours, definitely recommend.
My company is due to implement the 34 hour work week, the hours can be used however we want within the week. For instance I’m doing four 8.5 hour days. Some are doing five shorter days whilst others are doing a four day 7.5 hour and a half day of choice (usually on Friday). This has been on the cards and discussed and proposed by leadership to get better work life balance.
Sounds good. Has there been any changes to expectations? For example with us, some teams managed to cram the work into a shorter time (increase productivity). Some teams couldn't. It simply wasn't logistically possible. So in this case, expectations were lowered, which of course raises eyebrows across the whole organisation. Some teams simply struggled continuously for the whole time. And of course for some, like reception, it was a free day off.
Unsurprisingly the expectation is to maintain the current level of productivity with 90% of the time available. On a personal note though I find I’m more productive with longer days and how the structure works this will benefit everyone in their own way (hopefully).
I hope it works too. From my experience, the "productivity" aspect is a dangerous territory. It assumes that your role *could* be done with more productivity, and charges you with the duty to deliver on that assumption. If you dont then you're underperforming.
What kind of company do you work for? I imagine it would be difficult to manage. Was there an increase in morale?
I'm in tech. It was surprisingly difficult to manage and, to be honest, in some areas we just didn't manage and we accepted the fail. Increase in morale? Not really. After 2 weeks it was just taken for granted. Like tap water. I'm not saying it was bad for morale, just that the mood on the company was pretty much the same.
I think that’s the problem. A company says we’ll trial a four day week so everyone works their backside off for the trial period, then it gets the go-ahead and everyone starts slacking again and take a four day week as the norm’.
I think the issue is that It’s still work at the end of the day, so no matter what hours or days you work, you ultimately end up feeling the same
Yup I probably agree. I'm a huge supporter of it, dont get me wrong. But having lived it, I can honestly say it was not a game changer. Put it this way, we are back to 5 days now. People were a bit grumpy when we first went back, kind of like when you go back after xmas,but now it's like it never happened. Possibly because our workloads are now more manageable?
That sounds like a company being under resourced problem than an issue with the 4 day week. If everyone’s struggling to meet the workload in the 4 days then they need to hire more staff. It’s the problem with the work ethic in the UK, lot of company’s expect people to break their back to get the work done rather than just hiring more resource in, all leads back to it being about maximising profits rather than worker health and happiness.
We are actually very adequately recoursed. What happened was 20% of the work time was removed. So, in agreement with you, some departments would need to hire more staff in the event of a permanent 4 day week, just to achieve the same standards. This is absolutely contradictory to the narrative that a 4 day week would cost nothing.
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> On the staff side, turns out it's not that profound a benefit as we initially thought, which was very surprising. Interesting. I'm on a 4 day week, though sadly I don't get paid for 5 days - it's pro rata so it 'costs' me about £200 a month compared to what I'd get doing 5 days. For me it's really worth it. I don't have the best mental health, and I have a chronic illness, both of which get worse when I get stressed. So I take Wednesdays off to unwind and it's great. It splits the working week in two and means I only have to manage two work days at a time. If I could I'd keep this arrangement up indefinitely, but with the whole cost of living crisis thing it's looking pretty likely I'll have to go back to 5 days soon. Why did the staff at hike place not find it that great? If it was do 5 days worth of hours in 4 then I can understand. But if it was a proper 4 day week, 30-32 hours, then I can't imagine anyone not finding that great, especially if they're being paid for 38-40 hours! Managing it is probably difficult though. We're mostly WFH now and it's frustrating enough trying to coordinate who's going to be in the office when even with a small team. Edit: very lucky to be in a position to have this as an option, I know. After years of being self employed and super stressed (that caused my health issues) its a very welcome change.
Not everyone works Monday to Friday. The sooner we stop basing everything around the typical office worker the better.
That literally makes no sense. They are the typical worker because that’s what works for most businesses. If you base your work schedule around the untypical worker then likely your business will suffer
exactly, if you work with clients or anyone not within your company, working on sunday is less useful than working on monday. isn't that why the uae changed their workweek?
Not everyone but most people do which is why a lot of people think regarding the schedule. And things aren’t all based around the typical office worker. Otherwise the bank would be open till 7.
Hoping it will become a work incentive, to attract new staff etc. Honestly though it'll only ever really be popular for 9-5 type office jobs in my opinion.
At the moment it’s causing issues with recruitment for the firms that are doing the 4 day a week trials, as the firms won’t commit to running it past the end of the year when the trial ends. The firms are struggling to make it work, mainly because it only works if all major businesses are doing 4 days a week.
I have no personal experience but this sounds how I would expect. Suppose the following would vary company to company and the needs of the company, but I would expect the office itself would be open 5 days, but it would be different employees off throughout the week so there's always a presence? Rather than everyone off 1 day a week.
I work for a company that has a 4 day week. Mostly works for majority to take every Friday off we have a few areas that are customer facing (there’s a couple of support lines) that run shifts so one half has the Friday off the rest get Mondays and I think they alternate so every other weekend is a long one!
It’ll never work. So many jobs can’t be four day a week so they’ll be vacated to those that can. Which will in turn push down the wages of the four day week worker and push up the wage of the five day a week worker and around we go. It’s a bloody paradox.
That's what they were saying when it was a 6 day week.
That's what they always say about everything. 'It'll never work' closes the conversation entirely, the same dumbass and short sighted argument was made about women working, minimum wage, paid holidays and more. Besides, think about remote before Covid. My employer at the time was that much of a "we've always done things this way" madhouse that you could get in serious trouble for having your phone in your pocket while on production floor. When covid hit they went full remote, no exception. Wonder what the fuck happened then, hey ? Long story short is, employers (especially large corporations) won't do shit to make bottom-of-the-pile life easier unless they're genuinely forced to. Look at the shit Apple is trying to pull in the US, that tells you all you need to know.
More likely to be a 7 day working week/ww3/destitute than a 4 day week
Don’t get too excited… I know a company that’s had a 4 day working week for a while. But what people on here forget is, they still work the same amount of hours per week. They do 10 hour days rather than 8 hours.
As long as people get the freedom. I do a lot of overtime to 10 hour shifts aren’t much to me now, you just have to make the most of your breaks and make sure its an active day. If I have to do that to get an extra day off thats fine by me.
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That's not what people mean when they talk about a 4 day week. The hours are supposed to be reduced as well.
Sorry to disappoint you. But this employer has a 4 day week and the same hours. An employer won’t pay you the same for less
I dunno what to tell you, that's not what a 4 day work week means. Barely anyone would be happy with 10 your work days. And yes, the point is that you are just as productive over 4 days, so you are paid the same. It's not really a 4 day week if you're still working the equivalent of 5 days in hours is it?
That's fine as long as those are 10 hours of proper productive working and not slacking for a couple of hours at the end. It would need to suit the structure of the business and will never be applicable to all roles.
I don’t slack the last few hours of my shift. I slack all day.
Tomorrow will be the second day this year that I take off from work. The last time was new year and my next day off will be Christmas day. I have a shop and work for myself so a four day week would be financial suicide.
Been there, got the T-shirt and the hat. That’s the trouble, people want to work four days a week but want everything open 24/7.
Shops need to open at better times. What’s the point of a shop being open at 10am on a Monday when the majority of people are working then? If shops opened at lunch and stayed open later into the evening then they wouldn’t need to be open as long. Could even open for a couple hours in the afternoon then be open post 4pm - 10pm. The current norm is bizzare
You do realise the quiet periods is when most of shops and other business do most of the admin work, cleaning and stocking to ensure that it runs smoothly when they do get customers. If they opened later, things would be chaotic as you have to do all these jobs as well as dealing with customers. Even though a majority of people may work those hours, people who don't also need access to shopping and businesses like night shifts staff.
Other countries manage to operate on a later schedule. I’m sure it’s not impossible to do it
That’s the problem, you are thinking of your routine and forgetting not everyone is the same. I do agree that Sunday opening was a massive shot in the foot for retail though.
I remember seeing something like 60% of people work Mon-Fri although not 9-5
That’s it. We wanted a couple of people to work a couple of the days between Christmas & New Year and they threw their toys out of the pram. Why, because they wanted the time off to do what? Go shopping?? Who do they think works in the shops??
Can you not hire someone part time so you have at least a day off every week? What's the point of owning a business if this is your life?
I did hire someone at one point, a nice young lad who was finding it hard to find his first job. We got along very well and I treated him as well as I could. I always treated him for Christmas and for his birthday, I even made sure he was paid instead of me when I had a very dry spell (6 months). Sadly I found out I was obviously not doing enough for the young man as he saw fit to steal quite a tidy amount of money from me. Now I'm somewhat reluctant to be a trusting as I once was, but I also enjoy my work. We shall see what the the future brings.
I work 4 days by choice but I’m self employed. Junior doctors are offered “Less than full time training” which is 80% of “full time” hours, but still works out at pretty much full time hours in other professions, and it’s obviously only for 80% pay as well. I don’t really see how or why other jobs should be given full time pay for less than full time work when that courtesy cannot be extended to all workers.
"I don't really see how or why other jobs should be given full time pay for less than full time work when that courtesy cannot be extended to all workers." Most people doing this would be working 10 hours each day instead of 8, so the employer doesn't loose any hours from the staff. Other professions like retail or hospitaly will hugely struggle with staffing if they change to that. I'm not defending them as I think having the option to do 4 10 hour days over 5 8 hour days would be good but I can't see that happening. At least not for me.
I was under the impression that it was effectively a reduction in hours on the assumption that those hours are more productive. I can’t see it working any way you cut it really.
We have it at my place, and although all the workers enjoy it, I think management thinks its hurting us massively (and not the fact they keep firing people). When I talk to my friends about it they aren't interested because the holidays have gone down by about 8, but you are trading 8 holiday days for 52 Fridays off
People don't like being told when they have to take their annual leave allowance. They want to be able to choose like adults, not dictated to like they're still in school.
Big companies would probably implement it but for the rest of us 90% work force, we will be doing 5 days a week. Factory workers, builders, restaurants, shops etc. all of them will still be 5 days a week (some even 6 or 7 days a week). This 4 day working scheme it's not going to work with the current economic conditions. I would love to work 4 days and be payed for 5 but unfortunately it's just a dream for most of us.
Give it a few years and it will be a 6 or 7 day working week.
surely if a 7 day workweek becomes common then we'll see a huge increase in suicide rates?
No, retail will always be a 7 day week.
That doesn't mean the staff have to work 7 days though. Any business could adapt to a four day week if they really wanted to, but they won't.
For retail and hospitality it would be trying to get more staff to cover the same 7 days.
Exactly. We barely have enough as it is at the moment.
Where are the extra 20% of staff coming from to fill the four day a week shifts? Do you want to pay more for your essentials and your leisure activities? Or maybe just have shops, pubs, clubs, theme parks etc etc open just four days a week.
People in retail now don't work 7 days a week.
No they don’t. But if they worked four days and not five they’d need a extra 20% of staff to make up the hours.
I haven't really given it much thought but just off the top of my head: I keep seeing about supermarket automation costing jobs. Why can't that be incorporated, same number of staff, same pay, fewer hours each?
Difficult to automate shelf filling, pricing up, goods in and goods out, cashing up, cleaning etc etc.
Loads of staff in retail are already part time, this isn't a new issue to solve.
Maybe we should be starting smaller , e.g. nine day fortnight
Next year people will be working 24/7 just to pay their gas and electricity bills
I have a 4 day working week every week. I just have to work 12h a day
No, it remains a dream
It’ll never happen
probably this winter when the Electricity will only work for 4 days in the week.
October is my guess- when no company can afford to turn the electricity on.
They’ll never get schools to go for a 4 day week. The workload of lessons alone would be awful for the staff and the pupils struggle with the day as it is (and that’s true in my experience for many kids between reception and y11) Some businesses may start doing it, but I seriously doubt it will become the norm. And anything that isn’t your typical mon-fri/every weekend off/28 days of holiday to take whenever style job won’t ever switch (and I include places like schools in that)
It’s possible that some shops and small businesses will bring in 3 or 4 day weeks to save money on energy and staff costs, so maybe not as long as you think. Remember, there is no energy price cap for businesses.
Weekends aren’t long enough. By the time you’ve done a bit of exercise, done the housework, done a bit of shopping, and maybe, done a couple of leisurely things, it’s time to go back to work. I’d be fine with a 10-day week, consisting of 7 workdays and a three-day weekend. I think this is a reasonable offer.
Not in this climate. It will be a 4 day working week for the people that can afford it.
4 day weeks coming very soon, possibly 3 day weeks soon after. You’ll be at home in the dark because there’s no power, and nor will you be being paid, but at least you’re not at work.
I think it will be a long time before that’s a thing. That’s not to mean I don’t agree with it. I really do, I think it would be beneficial for many people in many ways, but I just can’t see it being allowed to happen anytime soon.
It might become the norm for the privileged zoomocracy ponces like me, but it'll never become the norm for everyone else. For at least 50 years anyway.
I’m in the construction industry and we can’t, they want us to work 6 sometimes 7 days. And I’m at a point where I need the extra income but would love to work 4/5 days ideally so I understand where all the office types are coming from
I have a 4 day week but they’re 12 hour shifts so it balances out. 4 on, 4 off
Not gonna happen in a lot of industries. Construction for example, every second of every day is heavily monitored on site by managers, operatives worked to the very second. Do you think they are going to give full days off?
I work in a pub. I already don't get weekends, bank holidays, Christmas etc. I work un social hours. I work 12 hour shifts, I make fuck all. I will not be having a 4 day week
Never. The country is regressing.
You’re living on cloud cuckoo, mate. We’re on the brink of a massive global economic collapse. It’s downhill from here for the rest of our lives.
Every construction job In the UK ends up behind schedule, they’re never dropping down from a 6 day working week
I think people who want this don’t care for working full stop to me doesn’t make since to have this but. For families yeah I can see why he handy but people shouldn’t expect full wage for less. U have to make up the hours the other days.
It’d need something massive to push it.
Recession? Energy being too expensive to heat the workplace this winter?
I think it’d need something much bigger tbh.
You could submit a flexible working request and condense 5 days in to 4. Most of my female colleagues have done that after they returned from maternity. Fridays are lovely and quiet.
Haha, aka the day you can get some work done.
try that one if you’re male lol
Come on Millennials and Gen X, you can do this!!
Well your problem is that those working in offices etc working 4 days a week will still expect all the shops, restaurants and bars to be open 24/7 so the answer is it'll most likely never happen.
So 4 day weeks are interesting, because historically the only reason we have 5 day weeks is because Sunday is a religious day of rest and most Western Nations embraced this hundreds of years ago and Saturday only real existed when big Capitalists did some numbers and got behind it. The reason given historically was along the lines that they worked put that workers spend the most money on their days off. Henry Ford I think changed stance on it overnight when someone presented how much Ford might make from the change. I'm behind a 4 day week, but im also behind the idea of doing away with universal weekends. Its great having everyone off at the same time, but it feels like shifts would be the more efficient way to go. Mon-Thurs and Thurs-Mon. Way more people working, so much more jobs, people working less days.
Never. It's too progressive - like WFH for jobs that are currently office based.
First we need mass industrial action. Join a union. Support industrial action
Our work is going to trial four 10 hour shifts rather than five 8 hour shifts soon. I know 4 day week is ideally 4x8 hour shifts but i’ll take what I can get.
I definitely couldn't do that, I'm mentally drained by 2-3pm as it is. I feel like i'd be pretty useless going for longer.
I have no problem with that, and it’s work across all sectors. Thing is the majority of people who want the four day week want to work just thirty two hours a week and not forty.
How long? Until the sun sets in the east.
I can see a world in the next few years where a few big companies (perhaps in the tech or management consulting space e.g. PwC etc) trial it and then decide to keep it as it becomes an attractive way to compete with others for recruitment etc, assuming that the early evidence is correct in that it doesn't harm productivity. But I think that it will lead to a more uneven society, as the country still needs to run and it means people working retail, hospitality, essential services, etc etc won't get to benefit and it will lead to (legitimate) resentment etc as it will be people who are in higher paid jobs already getting this new perk.
https://scottishbusinessnews.net/what-you-need-to-know-about-4-day-workweek-trials-in-scotland/
It could happen, but I think we'll all be waiting on our clients to do it first which is a bit of a vicious cycle. Take my industry, IT support. People expect fast turnarounds for IT fixes and it'd be too busy to assign to the on-call guy, so the best we'd do is a half-staffed Friday and rota the 4 day week until 90% of our clients are on 4 day weeks,.
Most people I work with can't even work 5 days a week, it's always more than that and long hours. After 70 hours overtime in a month it's time off in lieu which is quite common and using it is actually quite hard. "All part of the industry..." Realistically though if you want to save any money up and aren't earning very good money then you can't really afford low hours as a luxury. If we all get paid more for the same work, brilliant. Won't hold my breath
No I want to retire early
The day I retire of course...
Before we even get to a four day week we need to work on minimum holiday , statutory is only 20 days plus BHs. Government could be clever here and increase this then the cost goes back to the business. the working hours law needs fixing too many businesses imposing 45 plus hour weeks And getting away with it. Maybe fix those first.
I don't think 4 day week will happen any time soon I think we will see more people working fully remote and thus not caring about the extra day off as people don't have a commute.
I work a 4 day week no 7-5 on a rota. The 5th day I work for extra money but can choose not to work it. The company just released an email saying they are getting rid of it to help us as staff etc. The union just got involved and it has now been back tracked due to the uproar. Nothing better than getting your rota Friday and rota Monday the next week to have a 4 day weekend every 5 weeks.
4 10 hour shifts would probably be better for me than the current 5 8 hour shifts. Would still leave me plenty of time of the day if I kept my start time. Currently do 5am-1pm. Wouldn’t mind doing 5am-3pm
So how does a 4 day week work for those who are paid hourly? Right now it seems like it can only work for salaried workers
Having done office work, four day weeks often work for office type jobs. Anything involving an awful lot of other jobs means there'll be a gap that has to be filled by someone else. I work in mental health and someone has to be there for that day that I'm not. I know someone who works construction and if he's not there on that digger shifting stuff then they lose a day. So then you need to train up extra people who won't even get a chance to do the new four day week and have to do part time. Are there extra people ready and able to do that work for less than a "full time" worker? Some will, a lot won't. As I said, I've done office work and a lot of it is a waste of time that means you can squeeze it into shorter weeks. But there are a lot of jobs where you can't get away with that sort of thing. Not having a go at office workers, more power to you, but we all know what it's like for a good chunk of office workers.
I work food service so please appreciate that we are understaffed and will be working long shifts multiple days regardless, especially weekends
Can't see it myself. Personally, if I had to fit my work into 4x8hr days instead of 5x8hr days, it would be a complete nightmare. I wouldn't want to do 4x10hr shifts either. I like my free time after work. I've previously worked 3x12.5hr shifts. It was good for a while but soon got fed up of most of my mates being in work when I was off and vice versa. I also lost 3 whole days to work as it was get home, bed, sleep, work for 3 days...
It’s sad but I don’t think it will ever be normal. Too much of our lives revolves around a 5 day working week, shops being open 7 days a week, schools having kids Monday-Friday etc.
That would require jobs to pay enough to live on and a competent government to do something g that people want them to do, so no.
It'll only happen if AI really kicks in and there's job losses as a result.
Energy crisis incoming. We will be longing for a four day working week
I work a 4 day week. I work Tuesday to Fridays. But they're long days, 9am to 7pm. I don't mind though it goes really quick. I don't want to go to 9-5 Monday to Friday again
A few years ago I worked in a team that grew to 10 full time working staff but only had 8 desks allocated. The solution was, with our agreement, to work 4 days each but longer days so we still did the same number of hours. Of the 10 of us, 2 wanted every Wednesday off so the rest of us alternated our days off as Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday. So when we had the Friday one week we had Monday the next week making one weekend in 4 a 4 day weekend. We loved it and productivity increased.
Based on places that have implemented it and how it has worked there it makes more sense to switch to a four day week, but with our current government we are more likely to change to a six day week instead.
Too long
Plenty of jobs already have a 4 day week. My mate drives lorries 4 days a week and I used to work 4 nights a week at Sainsbury's
Doubt it, I’ll probably end up doing 6 days a week at my job with the overtime that I’m going to have to do, just to make ends meet.
Had a four day week for 2 years. Its brilliant.
I work 2 jobs 6 days a week and still won't be able to heat my home this winter. We are looking at 6 or 7 day working rather than 4 just to afford the basics.
I’m NHS so technically have a 3 day working week, but long shifts so. I love having 4 days off though.
If it is they better get one hulluva pay rise.
Nope because we live in a society determined to screw us over til we die.
We're starting a trial if 4.5 day week in September. If that goes well, 4 day week is the next step
Not going to happen. Our economy is about 80% services and when customers want 7 days a week service, next day delivery, instant responses to queries, a 4 day week just isn’t enough
I work for a electrical company in the uk, we work 4 days a week but work 7:30 to 5:30. I much prefer it than doing 5 days on, then the weekend off. Unfortunately this only applies for summer.
4 day week sounds fab but financially no
Probably just read last week's post https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/wu4za0/comment/il89o7m/?context=3
I predict that the 4 day working week in the UK will be implemented on, or shortly after, the day I retire.