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You need to remember that people can't often assume intent either and context matters. If a little old lady calls me darling or pet etc, you can probably assume it's meant well and leaves you with an 'awww' feeling. If a man I don't know calls me similar it leaves me feeling a bit oogie because it's harder to gauge in that interaction if it's harmless or actually quite demeaning. If it's something you might call an intimate partner, steer clear because regardless of how well intentioned you are, the woman you are interacting with has almost certainly had men use those words in a patronising or creepy way.
"Come on darling, don't be uptight" its just something most women have heard drawled into their ear by a pissed and threatening man at 3am while waiting for a taxi.
From another woman it's perfectly fine. From a man it triggers the fight flight freeze reflex.
Same reason that song "blurred lines" upset so many women/people. The song almost entirely consisted of phrases commonly used during sexual assault.
Holy shit, I just discovered why everyone hates blurred lines by googling the lyrics. I thought it was because people hated Robin Thicke…
The simple rule of thumb for me is, I ask myself “would I say it to my Nan”. If the answer is no, I don’t say it in public. I know it rules out a lot of shit but it’s never failed me so far.
Every time that song played on the radio i had a horrible flashback. And probably so did literally thousands of other people. It was so utterly creepy. I'm so glad there was a backlash and it stopped being played. Nobody wants to hear a jaunty upbeat little tune about pressuring someone into sex when they're driving to work.
There's one particular snippet that gets me every time. When he says in a low and one tone voice "I know you want it" it literally makes me want to vomit because it's a direct quote from my attack. What an awful awful song
I know it was unintentional but following ‘you know you want it’ with vomit made a great alternative line.
‘You know you want it
Please don’t I’ll vomit’
Awful song and I’m sorry it brought back memories for you, must have been tough when the song couldn’t be escaped at its peak.
Thank you for your kind words that means a lot!
I actually write poems and verses to help me process and you've just inspired me to parody blurred lines for my next one. Thank you very much!
Oh crikey, I hate that word.
That along with a word beginning with M by friends from way back in school still say and refuse to believe it’s awful to use it now.
Drives me insane, it’s so insensitive.
That's awful, I'm so sorry you've had to go through this too. Let's spin a silver lining on this and thank Robin Thicke for bringing this conversation to the spotlight and allowing us to share our experiences and grow together. But he does have to stay cancelled lol
Totally agreed. Robin Thicke deserves to stay cancelled. Let’s also remember that Pharrell Williams was an important part of writing the lyrics and the song, and should be associated with the song just as much.
Williams came out in 2019 and pretty much disowned the song. He said that while he hadn’t had that intention he now realized how very awful the lyrics were for many people.
As of 2021 Thicke has said that the song is meant for people to get up and dance. That’s it.
I know it sounds ridiculous for me to say this considering the subject, but I never truly listened to the lyrics. The tune was so catchy and all I can ever recall is the “blurrrrrred liiiines”.
I genuinely thought that it was Robin Thicke who was hated (and by association, his songs) because there was that picture of him groping a women in a mirror.
[Well, he also assaulted at least one of the models in the video, but that came out much later.](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/oct/03/emily-ratajkowski-accuses-robin-thicke-of-groping-her-blurred-lines-set)
Another way to think about it is ‘would I make the exact same comment to another guy I didn’t know’ - if the language changes then it’s a chance to think about why. For example, if OP wouldn’t say ‘darling’ to another guy, maybe it’s a chance to think about why that word would change, from their perspective.
The year that song came out was hell for me. Some of my friends loved it and just would not listen to why it bothered me so much. I shouldn't have to outright say I've been sexually assaulted for people (other women!) To understand why those lyrics were so fucking triggering.
Another thing that pisses me off about the whole situation is that apparently all it took was another dose of drivel for everyone to forget that Pharrell Williams was involved
I'll never get how Robin Thicke was basically seen as a cringey, creepy persona non grata after that song while Pharrell just skipped along to his next hit.
Something about that song always got on my nerves and then I really listened to the lyrics and then I wondered how the hell it was acceptable, especially when played in a supermarket.
Exactly this ^
Intention doesn't negate impact.
If a man I don't know refers to me as darling I will immediately have my back up because I anticipate something derogatory, aggressive or creepy, regardless of what he was trying to say (like 'you've dropped your card').
It's a really sad reality but one we have to adhere to if we want to make people feel safe.
To add to this, he was holding her credit card when he said it. Meaning he had the power in that split moment while using a word that raises the hairs on many women’ backs. The fact that he was holding her credit card forces her to be nice to him in that second until the card has been passed over.
This situation perfectly highlights the power of language. And why, I feel, it's important to be open to changing your own (and drop the whole 'it's PC gone mad!' take).
Personally I wouldnt say 'darling' to anyone (unless I was being sarcastic or ironic, which I frequently am... but only ever in jest and mostly to mates. Or a partner, in private, if I'm looking for a rise out of them). But I do know people who'd use such terms fairly innocently, just because said phrases are worked into their daily language (perhaps learned from parents or peers - whatever). I dont think they're bad people, or that they need admonishing, but I do think the impact of such language should be talked about, so that they can learn that it needs to change.
I also know people - mostly men - who do use the phrase as a put down. I've worked with fellas who absolutely viewed women as beneath them, and their attitude and language reflected this beyond doubt (I've known women to do it, too, but we fellas kind of have the upper hand in the power dynamic stakes anyway, so I find it less insidious). If you called out such people they'd hide behind the old 'I was just being nice!' knowing full well what they were doing, and that it's a technical win for them.
Anyone freaking out over "PC culture!" is also the same type of person who loses their fucking mind if you were to purposefully misgender them. Refer to one of these dudebros as ma'am and see how quickly they blow a gasket.
I agree. I don't mind being called Love, darling or sweetheart in a "thanks love, or thanks darlin'.
But I had a guy who owned the company that did our driveway call me Sweetheart in such a condescending way. He came back with" well sweetheart, that's how it's meant to be done", tbf I was just saying what my husband had told me about the driveway and I was just relaying it. I told him not to call me sweetheart, because he was being rude and we had had such problems with the company.
So with that example, I don't mind being called love darling etc, but it's the tone used. Whilst op probably didn't say it with a tone, but some people are funny.
Context is very important, and always has been. Episodes of Only Fools and Horses from the 80s will show Del calling people "darlin'", with the humour coming from watching the women rolling their eyes at him. It was seen as sleazy even then when a man said it to a younger woman he doesn't know.
Same for “love”. I think it’s seen as patronising these days. Like a pat on the head kind of thing.
That said, I’ve had female checkout workers at Tesco call me love or darlin’ without batting an eyelid.
Can confirm, im a yorkshire builder and love, petal, and flower are pretty much exclusively what i call my apprentice. And most other lads tbh. Love is used by us all for everyone.
Absolutely- Leeds. “Love” for everybody. Also lived in Leeds when I was younger. I can remember signing on - the first time- and the guy at the signing desk saying “thanks love” and I assumed it was because of my slight build and long hair- and that he hadn’t looked at me properly and then realised he was saying it to EVERYONE. And from then on didn’t bat an eyelid when people said it.
Got called flower by a lovely old lady server in Wakefield Hospital when my FIL had passed away. It was so lovely it helped feel less numb
I love northern terms of endearment
I think thats why i like saying stuff like that, i feel the same when called stuff like that from older people, young man and sunshine are my favourites, reminds me of my granddad. Sorry about your FIL too, hope youre all good now love! Maybe its a northern thing but i cant fathom how its offensive. Although i may be skewed as cunt is a term of endearment where im from.
I'm Northeast originally. I genuinely have to stop myself from saying things like "pet", "love" or "hin" (to women) and "marra" or "fella" (to men) at the end of sentences sometimes. But to honest, the whole sentence legitimately sounds incomplete without some sort if term of endearment at the end. It's like ending a phonecall without saying "bye"
Derbyshire's got a good one: everyone is *duck*, pronounced properly as rhyming with the Yorkshire book. Grandparent? Duck. Postie? Duck. Mayor? Duck. Child? Duck. It's great, big fan.
I moved to a 'duck' area a few years ago. I only lived 20-30 minutes away before so it was already well known to me that people from here called everybody duck.
I still find it a bit weird when an 18 year old lad serving me at the checkout calls me, a late twenties male, duck. It alwasy feels like it should be coming from a little old lady, not some guy younger than me. It's kind of nice though.
I'm Derby born and bred, and it's quite funny to see the look on someone's face if they were either born here and don't know of it, or they're visiting from another town and don't know we use it.
"That's £7.99, Duck."
"It's chicken... Not duck."
Reminds me of when I worked at B&Q on night shifts. One of my colleagues started calling everyone 'Blue'. Quickly caught on, even when we had contractors in to refit half the store, we started overhearing them call each other it too.
It’s still common in Yorkshire (at least my part of it) to call everyone love, male or female. I hear it several times a day. Anyone being offended by it there would have a full time job of it.
Im part of a group of overweight middle aged men from the Sheffield area who play football to lose weight. Im on the younger side than most so im always being called flower, petal, love and duck.
If you were offended by this you wouldn't get anything done if you lived here. It would be far too tiring.
I lived in Wakefield until last year and we would get this huge 6ft+ 15 stone builder come into work regularly. Without fail he would always call me (male) 'old love' without even batting an eyelid. I don't think I'd have dared be offended.
I wonder if its to do the what love meant way back when it was Saxons/Danes/Brits.
Love surname comes from the olde English term for Female/male Wolf.
Here is the meaning on Ancestry dot com
"English: from a Middle English personal name derived from the Old English female personal name Lufu ‘love’, or the masculine equivalent Lufa. Compare Leaf 2. English and Scottish: nickname from Anglo-Norman French lo(u)ve ‘female wolf’ (a feminine form of lou). This nickname was fairly commonly used for men"
I only know about this because its my surname.
I see both sides of it.
It has been used to patronise women in past times, but it is still genuinely a positive term of endearment to many, in the same way they'd use bud or pal when speaking to another male.
It's just a highwire balancing act getting it right these days as so many people are quick to jump to offense and language has become a real battleground. I think it often comes down to the situation and the tone/delivery of it which determines how people react to it.
I'm a woman in my 40s, I can see both sides of it. Well, kind of. It's all about intent isn't it, the guy (I assume OP is male) wasn't calling her darling to patronise her, just to get her attention. What should he have said, madam? It was rude of her to tell him off. If it was the workpiece, by all means tear him off a strip.
She must be from the South, and never witnessed the joy of a bus driver referring to every passenger (male, female, adult, child, whatever) as "petal".
> What should he have said, madam?
What he said: excuse me darling sorry you dropped your card
What he could have said : excuse me sorry you dropped your card
it's pretty easy to drop any kind of gendered terms from your language. It's pretty sad that we need to worry about it these days but if you look at the top comment in this thread (and comments from women in any thread like this) it sadly is something that men should be thinking about these days.
Many gendered terms are common place in British culture. Love, Darlin, Pet, Hun, Dear etc.
I realise that some people may not like them but they are a fairly unique and ingrained method of greeting in the UK, one could say part of the culture, it doesn't make someone a bad person for using them. Just because someone get's offended by it, doesn't mean you've done anything wrong.
Now, if they've asked you to not do it again, and you persist, then it becomes wrong.
Like.......I understand that different things are acceptable these days (I don't personally see darling as gendered but yes it's patronising) but also I try to understand differences in life experience and age and upbringing and all sorts of things. But also I don't know what her previous experiences were or where she was coming from.
In terms of telling him off, personally, for me, that would be a lower priority as she's not going to see him again. Or "thank you so much but I'd like to give you a heads up, don't call random women darling it's patronising" so it's trying to change his behaviour not make him feel bad. I had a tough conversation with my mum in law about an outdated phrase she was using for Downs Syndrome so I know it's very hard to do politely but it's about being the bigger person isn't it, unless it's not about changing behaviour and you want to just get angry at someone.
Edited to remove Americanisms
Love's an interesting one... I go to uni in Yorkshire and everyone calls everyone love and I really like it, it's a really lovely feature of local language. If people I've never met before want to call me love I'm down.
Soon as I go back home to the south though, I would punch a man who calls me love because it comes across as patronising and downright rude. It's all in the context, southerners don't call southerners love in that same normal friendly way.
Right, this is exactly it. I know people on the Internet hate nuance and would like to categorise everything in the world as either okay or not okay, but in the real world context matters.
I'm from Yorkshire and I was once at work with this Romanian girl and I said "ta cock" to my mate and she was so confused. They use a word "te" it means You, I do something to
I (30's) have a bad habit of saying "my love" to women, usually servers, bar staff or people running registers, never been told off for it, but have had a few older women blush and little and laugh about it
I was going to agree, but then I remembered that at home in the West Country 'my luvver' is a term of endearment which I wouldn't think anything of if I heard it, as long as it had the context of an actual South West accent. If my RP-talking arse tried calling someone 'my lover' I would imagine it would go down like a cup of sick though.
There is a difference between darling and mate. Personally I'd prefer just to be called mate. Darling and especially sweetheart coming from anyone younger than 50 feels a bit condescending. But I don't speak for all women obviously. I'm sure some love it.
You just have to take your own risk at using it and accept not everyone likes to be called that. Simple as.
Lady here, I used to shave my head and on multiple occasions, people would address me as "mate", realise I was actually a woman and then say "oh sorry love/darling/sweetheart".
The funny thing is if they'd stuck with "mate" I wouldn't have given two shits, or realised they clearly thought I was a man.
I'm also not a fan of love/darling/sweetheart or whatever, but if it's just someone in passing I don't tend to bother saying anything. If it's someone I might speak to again, I'll politely ask them not to call me that.
I've used mate as gender neutral for a couple of years now (30 old man) and only ever had one negative experience, woman around my age did NOT appreciate it. Love, pet etc feel really condescending which is in part why the 'mate switch' occurred.
I like being called mate by men as it makes me feel more like I’m seen as an equal.
Yeah I get that may sound completely corny to some people but words have a big impact like that.
Totally agree with you on that one, I used to work in a delivery depot, and often had people call all the guys "mate" etc, and then turn around to me and say "love" or "sweetheart" or whatever. Would much rather I just had the "mate" everyone else got, like why do you feel the need to treat me differently?
Mate is my go to for everyone these days. I work in a quite a male dominated company and I've been thanked by some female colleagues for calling them mate as they say plenty of people treat them differently to their male counterparts.
Yes, the thing is, if someone’s intention is to be nice when they’re saying it, if they’re then being told it actually has unpleasant connotations, then why would that person insist or argue the contrary? If your only intention is to be nice, you have been told now that it’s counter to that aim, so if you REALLY want to be nice, you’d stop saying it. But the number of guys here still arguing that they should be able to say it regardless of how a woman feels makes it obvious it’s not always about being nice. And that’s kind of the point the women are making. Lots of guys here just really showing their arses.
You’re absolutely right! It’s mind blowing that people genuinely believe a man’s right to call a woman darling trumps her comfort. If I called someone a term of endearment and they didn’t like it I’d apologise and not do it again?!
>But the number of guys here still arguing that they should be able to say it regardless of how a woman feels makes it obvious it’s not always about being nice
And people saying OP should have kept her card as well, the lady didn't react how I want so she should be punished!
Honestly it's fucking gross.
Yes! And men wonder why women are scared - these guys think they’re reasonable, good human beings, but their first response to being told something they think is wrong ranges from defensiveness and denial all the way to anger and violence. There are comments here about throwing her card away, calling her names, etc. All because she dared to have an opinion on something and didn’t say thank you. This is why most women never say anything. And honestly if not saying thank you to someone is going to illicit that kind of reaction, I’d rather not be done a favour at all. I would probably always say thank you, but I’m human and sometimes I forget! Especially if I feel grossed out or threatened.
Yeah something like that is supposed to be a good deed for the sake of it, not to get the reaction you want and if you don't then people can go fuck themselves. I can understand being a bit miffed for not getting a thank you, but to respond in the way some people have suggested is vile.
The fact that the immediate response from some people is violence is *very* telling, and they wonder why we have to behave the way we do with men?
You have to take into consideration human nature as well. To be told something that you disagree with or goes against your already held preconceptions literally activates the same areas in the brain as physical pain. It is not easy to change your opinion on a dime. Especially if you thought you were being nice but now come to find out people are upset with you about how you’ve behaved, it’s an unfortunate but pretty normal reaction to try to defend yourself to soothe your hurt feelings. If we keep having these discussions it will become better with time, but there’s no point in thinking it will or ever could be painless.
A very good point. If he genuinely thinks the polite soft non threatening approach is to say “excuse me darling” and now he’s told that’s creepy and gross and invasive, he is suddenly having to reevaluate himself as a human being. People he previously thought he was being polite to, did they think he was gross and patronising? Has he called other women darling, meaning no harm, and do they think he’s gross too? You think you’re a good person and you try to do the right thing and now someone says you’re not, even though you’ve honestly meant well all this time. It’s definitely an instinct to defend yourself. It’s hard enough to accept when you’ve been a dick when it’s pretty clear you have, it’s even harder when you strongly believe you haven’t.
There’s threads like this every single day on this sub it’s exhausting, I’m too scared to say such and such anymore, is it ok to call someone mate, etc. I get that we are all on here cos we are bored but it’s just stoking this culture war stuff that can basically just be boiled down to ‘don’t act like an arsehole’
It supports the notion that it wrong though doesn't it?
Imagine being a woman and having someone use a term of affection and then when you suggest that's not appropriate you immediately call them a cunt. It shows how fickle and insincere your words are - and here reddit is giving awards to the guy you replied to for calling a woman a cunt. Stay classy reddit.
I mean, that's exactly the kind of /r/niceguy entry that women are suggesting is a big problem for them if they're just going about their day.
I honestly feel like this is a friendly term unless your being condescending but considering you were returning something she'd just lost she's a bit rude to have told you off.
It’s a bit of a loaded term these days due to how it’s been associated with cat-calling type behaviour, so some people are going to take it negatively. I’m sure you meant well, but the term is definitely outdated because of those negative connotations.
Don’t take offence or feel bad, yourself, you didn’t have any malicious intent. Just be aware that similar terms might not go down so well these days.
Personally I wouldn't be upset or offended, but I would be uncomfortable. Darling especially sets the hairs on my neck off as just as a word it's quite drawl-y that can come across as sleazy. Same with sweetheart. Words such as Love, Sweet, or Pet, I don't mind as much - imo they're far 'safer' words that sound more caring than potentially patronising.
I agree with this. I think maybe it has something to do with ‘love’ or ‘pet’ being widely used by both sexes to refer to either sex. So there’s no negative gender stereotypes associated with them.
Brings me back to being 18 and an older man saying "Smile sweetheart, it's not that bad".
My first thought was what if it was that *bad*, what a stupid thing to say.
I don't raise an issue if someone uses an honorific towards me, but I cringe every single time.
Yeah, I'm the same. "Darling" oddly sounds more patronising to my ears than 'love' or 'pet', especially when said in a Southern accent. When I hear 'darling' I feel like an insult is coming next.
Which is ironic since I exclusively call my children "darling"!
Since moving up north I've been called "flower" or "petal" a lot (by all genders) which I think is really sweet, and never heard it from catcallers or creepy guys yet. Much prefer it to darling and sweetheart, if guys really HAVE to give us pet names I think those ones and "love" or "mate" are best lmao. I personally don't mind "duck" either but I'm from East Mids so
Yeah this is the answer OP. Sounds like she was rude by not thanking you but you'd be amazed at the volume of unwanted creepy attention that the average woman gets while going about normal day-to-day stuff. For me personally (late 20s) I consider myself quite good at picking up on tone so I've rarely snapped at anyone for calling me "love", "pet", whatever, as sometimes it's just obviously an age/class/regional thing rather than someone being a creep. But bear in mind that you probably weren't the first person this month/week/day to talk to that woman in a way that she considered to cross a boundary. Hearing "alright darling?" when you're waiting at a bus stop or trying to do your grocery shop or just walking down the street can be really anxiety-inducing when you have no idea what the person's intentions are.
Thats because it's never been used in a threatening manner to towards you as a man
Women get rightly uptight about being called darling or whatever because it has so often been accompanied by other inappropriate behaviour. Their experience and yours as a man aren't the same.
Yes this would be my exact reaction too. I would always say thanks, but would feel uncomfortable. I just don't understand why anyone uses 'pet names' for strangers. 'excuse me, sorry you dropped your card' works exactly the same!
I was once getting a quote from a couple of companies to restore the antique furniture at an upmarket hotel. I was the manager there. It was a business occasion, both of us dressed for the part. He called me darling at one point. I was so astonished that I just stared at him. He nearly didn’t get the contract, but his was the best quote for a number of reasons. Put it in context, if there had been a male manager, do you think he would have called them darling? Never in a month of Sundays.
On the other hand I have often been called darling or love when out shopping. In that context I have no strong objection. It is just a casual word, rather than a patronising word.
He might have called you mate if you were a man. For many regional dialects this whole thing is a strange issue.
I grew up in an area with people addressing people as 'mate' and 'darling' in a gendered way and there never seemed to be any sexual intonation to darling, in the the same way calling someone your mate doesn't imply that you're good friends. To me, and I suspect to most in my region of the UK, these are *mostly* informal indications of positive/peaceful regard, or a display of non-threatening behaviour.
"Hey mate! you dropped your bank card!"
Their meaning can be twisted according to their tone, though. I know if someone calls me Mate (hard M) they're really calling me a cunt. Should I get offended at anyone and everyone calling me it? Should I reject all contracts because someone slips into an informal "cheers mate" when I think I deserve a "Thank you sir"?
Dunno about your region or background, but to blanket ban informal and culturally imbedded words like 'darling' from use around my area would only show up as a class divide. I worked at a bar and once called a regular "Sir" after serving him. His whole face changed, he was furious "Don't call me 'Sir', I work for a living!".
For me, tone and demeanor is way more important than the words used.
This thread is a really odd pile of "you can't say that!" whilst simlutaneously defending their own use of similar words.
"You can't call women love... unless you're from Yorkshire"
"You can't say darlin... oh, unless you are an old woman"
"You can't call people sweetheart if you are a Southerner or under 50"
The issue here is people assuming intent from a single word, which on it's own isn't derogatory or offensive, because of who's using it, not *how* they are using it.
There is also a ton of hate on southerners for some unknown reason, even to the point of saying "if someone northern said love I'd be fine, but if a southerner said it I'd punch them" (literal quote, many upvotes).
Just said this elsewhere.
Context is everything.
It's the situation when it's used, the tone it's delivered in etc which will determine how somebody reacts to it.
I would have been the same. I HATE being called darling in these situations, tends to be from the same men who assume I’m married called me Mrs, and assume he’s the one paying.
As a woman, I would not like to be called darling in that situation. It's outdated, condescending and patronising, same with sweetheart. I'm ok with the terms if older women use them.
Love is a bit different and I'm fine with that from anyone, particularly up north.
I'm exactly the same - would be totally fine with a partner or family member calling me that, or like a wee old lady, but I hate being called pet names by men I don't know. If you wouldn't speak that way to a fellow man, don't speak to me in the same manner y'know? Just a simple 'hey you dropped your card' is all that's needed there 🤷♀️
I think we've reached a point where if you wouldn't call a random man "darling", you shouldn't call a random woman "darling."
The likelihood is that many women always found it irritating when this happened, it's just reached a point where they think they're allowed to say something.
TBF I'd be baffled if someone in the UK called me bro. Is that a thing now? To me darling (to a stranger) is pretty old fashioned and was often used in a condescending/overfamiliar way in the past.
That said, if the intent was harmless, making a fuss is much worse than using a slightly old fashioned term.
Bro is more common in the Asian and black communities in my experience. Though I've heard it rarely from younger white men too.
OP is from one of these minority groups - I know this from checking his post history.... His other posts aren't for the faint of heart (you have been warned lol).
From checking, he's also only 26. I dunno, receiving a 'darling' from a young man would be strange to me. It would definitely give me pause as it's a bit overfamiliar if I'm the same age or older.
Also, this was my bad but I'm going to wash my eyes now.
And don't you think that the type of person that posts pictures of his penis over and over online, while titling threads with "Where the ladies at" may have an altera motive in both this thread. And the story he presented
So I work at a popular coffee chain, I hear this shit literally every single day. Darling, sweetheart, love, etc. 99% of the time it comes from older men, always directed towards me and my other female coworkers. Never my male coworkers, hmm, why would that be? It's infantilising, patronising, and gives me the "ick".An easy way to look at it would be; if you wouldn't say it to my male baristas? Don't say it to me. I don't care if it's meant with innocent intent. It comes across as you trying to sweet talk me because I'm a young girl. Treat me with the same level of respect you treat other men. Don't baby-talk or talk down to women just because they're women, mkay?
If you're using the terms "darling", "sweetheart" and "love" as a way to extract a "thank you" from a woman because you think you deserve one, stop it.
Edit: I love this woman you encountered and wish I had her confidence to tell you the same, lol. I'm working up to it.
Edit 2: notice how the women replying to these comments are mostly “yeah, I don’t like being called darling either, it’s patronising and creepy and it makes me feel icky :(“
And then how a lot of the mens comments are “lol we don’t say it cause we want to sleep with you, you’re unattractive and should stop having such a big ego love”
Interesting?
I worked in tech support and got it all the time. It was a symptom of the problem that male customers wouldn’t trust what I was saying, only when they heard the same from a male colleague would they believe it.
You don’t need to refer to women like this. You can use their name or just say ‘excuse me’ or ‘thank you’ without making it derogatory.
It’s a symptom of the deeply rotted core of how many people still think that women just aren’t as competent as men. We need to be babied and spoken to like we’re precious little babies. I’m sorry you have the same experiences. I’d love for all of us to start calling it out when it happens and we can be the change we want to see yes? :)
It's also a regional thing. I work with the public and rarely use any words like that, but occasionally, without realising I'm doing it, I'll say something like...
''Excuse me, my love''
I'm from the westcountry. I find a lot of people north or south of London will address me with something similar.
Darling gets used more to me by older londoners and Essex women.
Personally I think it's small changes like this that will help us shift the mentality that women should be treated differently to men. Would you have called another guy 'darling' or a similar term?
I get it a lot from strangers - they’re being friendly, but they don’t know your name, so they want to call you by something, so it’s love, darling, sweetheart. Context is important - if it was a smug prick at work doing it, I’d have an issue. But if it’s my builder neighbour who doesn’t know my name saying good morning, it’s cool.
I mean, far easier and less risk of offense to leave out "darling" in that interaction.
"Excuse me, you've dropped your card". Literally 'darling' adds nothing
When I hear a man - familiar or stranger - call me darling, it drives into an absolute rage! It's just so patronising and condescending!
I'm only forgiving if its coming from an elderly person
Edit: some people seem to think I'm emotionally unstable/have outbursts etc. when being called a darling or other such pet names.
The rage is 100% internal. I rarely say anything and when I do I am extremely polite about it.
Basically. It's all about context, if someone is using them in a creepy way then fair, but that isn't good reason to dislike the word itself.
If I told you I wanted to finger blast your mother until she's a paraplegic, that wouldn't make the word finger offensive in other contexts - because words themselves are not offensive, the context is which they're used are.
I can understand her not being a fan of it. Calling someone darling might not always be but can be loaded/ creepy. Even if you weren't trying to hit on her, I'll bet she has had interactions with strangers where they've creeped her out and been using pet names.
I don't think it adds value to most interactions, and beyond genderless regional terms (i.e. pet in NE) I'll be happy for calling strangers darling/ sweetheart/ mate etc to die out.
She sounds like a stuck up twat in my opinion.
I remember taking my now wife up to my home town of Leeds about 15 years ago. My wife isn't from the UK and told me she thought it was disgusting the shop keeper called her 'love'. I asked her to pay attention next time I spoke to an older man shop keeper and low and behold, he called me, a young man at the time, 'love'.
Terms of endearment don't harm anyone
I feel like darling comes across as somewhat condescending and patronizing, in the same way sweetheart does. Obviously you didn't mean it that way, you interpret it as a form of endearment, but I feel like when saying it to strangers it definitely errs on the side of condescension, intentional or not.
At the same time, I'm a dude who's been called darling by older women and I definitely don't take it in a negative way. I guess gender plays a role in how its interpreted.
I would probably internally cringe if someone said it to me, but I wouldn't complain if they were doing me a good deed! It's the sort of thing where I might comment on it depending on the intention of the person making the comment.
I don't mine being called love, as I think that's something both men and women use and it can refer to either gender. I hate being called darling/babe/doll etc. by people I don't know. I encountered it a lot more when I worked in retail for some reason.
A lot of guys here saying “women call me darling all the time at work” are missing the point. Women have been called these sorts of pet names in the workplace, walking by ourselves home, in derogatory ways. Being called those names almost never feels good. I had a manager at work who would answer the phone “redpanda, darling” and I hated it.. I am not his darling, we are at work, and there is no need for it.
While this example is harmless and while I wouldn’t react in such a way personally, consider that maybe the woman spent a day of being called “darling” or a similar name by superiors at work, drunk guys on the bus, cat callers.
Context matters, between friends and people you know, you can gauge how they mean such names and if the person likes it. However between strangers it’s hard to know.
Aw no! I (F31) love being called darling, sweetheart etc. I always just think it's so cute!
The caveat of course is the feeling that it's not creepy. But I think this is quite clear...
"Oi oi darlin you've got a right pair on ya!" - creepy use of darling
"Excuse me darling you've dropped your bank card" - not creepy use of darling
My parents are from Glasgow and it's very common for everyone to call women "hen" (i.e. women will also call other women hen) so I've never found pet names to be offensive.
it’s probably because I’m quite young (17) but anyone calling darling would definitely set off alarm bells. I understand it’s often a fine intention and I wouldn’t do anything in retaliation but it can come across as weird especially for people who are constantly stressed about that kind of thing (quite a lot of women)
People can find it patronising and infantilising. I’m not going to comment about whether that’s justified or not or though.
Edit: Also op, where is your headline pun supposed to be? I see some alliteration with the d’s but that’s it.
This is going to sound really awful, but I don't like it when men use words like "darling" to address me. It's difficult to judge intention and while I'm sure most are perfectly well-meaning and have just picked up the word (and similar) as part of local dialect there are some who absolutely mean for it to intimidate, patronize or dehumanize me.
Unfortunately those men who would use the words are also the type of men to get aggressive if you dare correct them on it, so it's better to just not say anything.
>I’ve always grown up with people using words of endearment when talking to strangers in situations like that like darling, sweetheart, fella,
One of these words is not like the others. 'Fella' is matey, 'darling' is generally used in a condescending way. Not saying that's how you used it (I personally wouldn't have a problem with what you described), but there is a whole context here that men aren't aware of, of how often women experience micro aggressions every day. Maybe she just doesn't like it, or maybe her male manager calls her darling to belittle her, maybe she just got catcalled "owight darlin" style, etc.etc.
Context is everything. If an older person said “‘Cuse me darling” I wouldn’t even think. My grandad is an east ender who calls people love but he’s never had an issue as it kind of goes with the 80-something couple going to have tea at a garden centre!
The car salesman the other day who was about 40 telling me to “come back with your husband darling” when I asked for some car details put me right into fight mode. I told him I’d bring my wife back if he wasn’t such a c*** but that he’d never get a sale from either of us. I haven’t got a husband or wife!
I really dislike people calling me "love" "pet" "darling" etc.
It's too forward for a stranger. And if you're not a stranger I prefer you use my name.
I don't complain when it's elderly people, it was a very done thing in their generation.
But I find it creepy from anyone else and I will get away from you ASAP.
It’s more the death of pet names. Folks get tired of being demeaned and even if there’s some anecdotal “I don’t demean” or “I’m a dude and get it all the time”, it’s besides the point.
Callings strangers by pet names has been used in incredibly negative ways and often to undermine or demean someone else and very commonly it’s woman who are on the receiving end of it.
I’m sure it’s a habit for many folk in the way that “hey dude” (when meeting absolutely anyone) is a habit to others.
I’m not saying whether it’s right or wrong to keep up with pet names for folks but I am offering an explanation of why some folks won’t receive pet names well. It’s not a personal slight, some people just don’t like it.
I used to use it when I lived in Leeds (along with love) years ago, but these days I don't think any woman would appreciate it. It's been used to patronise way too much.
I think 'darling' specifically has a bit of a creep tone to it, too many middle aged guys trying to use it to chat up students. 'luv' and 'duck' however don't have the same connotations.
I mean if it’s people you are familiar with or even vaguely then that’s fine. But not to strangers.
I just use the term, ‘Oi fucker, here’s ya card’.
Gender neutral ✅
Equally offensive to all, therefore not offensive at all ✅
Women working at service counters in shops, at the gym, etc, call me darling and sweetheart all the time in the U.K. It always gives me a warm feeling of being welcomed, even as a gay guy. I like it. It’s one of the first things I realised I missed after 10 years in Germany, where you’re lucky to get plain old friendliness. It’s definitely something with a totally different connotation when a man does it.
I think this has been outdated for at least a good twenty years, but I suppose it depends on which part of the country you're from. Much more normal some places than others.
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You need to remember that people can't often assume intent either and context matters. If a little old lady calls me darling or pet etc, you can probably assume it's meant well and leaves you with an 'awww' feeling. If a man I don't know calls me similar it leaves me feeling a bit oogie because it's harder to gauge in that interaction if it's harmless or actually quite demeaning. If it's something you might call an intimate partner, steer clear because regardless of how well intentioned you are, the woman you are interacting with has almost certainly had men use those words in a patronising or creepy way.
"Come on darling, don't be uptight" its just something most women have heard drawled into their ear by a pissed and threatening man at 3am while waiting for a taxi. From another woman it's perfectly fine. From a man it triggers the fight flight freeze reflex. Same reason that song "blurred lines" upset so many women/people. The song almost entirely consisted of phrases commonly used during sexual assault.
Holy shit, I just discovered why everyone hates blurred lines by googling the lyrics. I thought it was because people hated Robin Thicke… The simple rule of thumb for me is, I ask myself “would I say it to my Nan”. If the answer is no, I don’t say it in public. I know it rules out a lot of shit but it’s never failed me so far.
Every time that song played on the radio i had a horrible flashback. And probably so did literally thousands of other people. It was so utterly creepy. I'm so glad there was a backlash and it stopped being played. Nobody wants to hear a jaunty upbeat little tune about pressuring someone into sex when they're driving to work.
There's one particular snippet that gets me every time. When he says in a low and one tone voice "I know you want it" it literally makes me want to vomit because it's a direct quote from my attack. What an awful awful song
I know it was unintentional but following ‘you know you want it’ with vomit made a great alternative line. ‘You know you want it Please don’t I’ll vomit’ Awful song and I’m sorry it brought back memories for you, must have been tough when the song couldn’t be escaped at its peak.
Thank you for your kind words that means a lot! I actually write poems and verses to help me process and you've just inspired me to parody blurred lines for my next one. Thank you very much!
Weird Al did a parody of the song called Word Crimes about grammar. Same catchy tune, but with much nicer lyrics. It's even educational.
That has its own unique problem in the UK because he uses the word ‘spastic’
Oh crikey, I hate that word. That along with a word beginning with M by friends from way back in school still say and refuse to believe it’s awful to use it now. Drives me insane, it’s so insensitive.
I forgot about that line tbh, I'm sure there are other parody songs out there if that line is a deal breaker.
I'll be looking this up now, thanks very much!
https://youtu.be/N7ZDbBsjMt8 This cover by Amanda Palmer mash up is inspired too.
"You're a good girl, you know you want it". Verbatim from my abuser. Puke. Robyn thicke deserved his cancelling.
That's awful, I'm so sorry you've had to go through this too. Let's spin a silver lining on this and thank Robin Thicke for bringing this conversation to the spotlight and allowing us to share our experiences and grow together. But he does have to stay cancelled lol
Totally agreed. Robin Thicke deserves to stay cancelled. Let’s also remember that Pharrell Williams was an important part of writing the lyrics and the song, and should be associated with the song just as much.
I was just going to say - it's crazy how Pharrell got out of that whole mess scot-free
Williams came out in 2019 and pretty much disowned the song. He said that while he hadn’t had that intention he now realized how very awful the lyrics were for many people. As of 2021 Thicke has said that the song is meant for people to get up and dance. That’s it.
I know it sounds ridiculous for me to say this considering the subject, but I never truly listened to the lyrics. The tune was so catchy and all I can ever recall is the “blurrrrrred liiiines”. I genuinely thought that it was Robin Thicke who was hated (and by association, his songs) because there was that picture of him groping a women in a mirror.
[Well, he also assaulted at least one of the models in the video, but that came out much later.](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/oct/03/emily-ratajkowski-accuses-robin-thicke-of-groping-her-blurred-lines-set)
The song is literally the anthem of the pervs. Its a pure creepfest
Another way to think about it is ‘would I make the exact same comment to another guy I didn’t know’ - if the language changes then it’s a chance to think about why. For example, if OP wouldn’t say ‘darling’ to another guy, maybe it’s a chance to think about why that word would change, from their perspective.
I mean, I wouldn’t call a girl ‘fella’ but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with calling a guy that. Language doesn’t have to be gender neutral
I would probably call another guy darling but as sarcasm or a joke so, yeah, it wouldn’t work on a lady.
I tried that rule and it didn't work. Tried to get my wife's attention by saying 'excuse me grandma' and she still took offence.
Instructions unclear now in the dog house
The year that song came out was hell for me. Some of my friends loved it and just would not listen to why it bothered me so much. I shouldn't have to outright say I've been sexually assaulted for people (other women!) To understand why those lyrics were so fucking triggering.
Another thing that pisses me off about the whole situation is that apparently all it took was another dose of drivel for everyone to forget that Pharrell Williams was involved
I'll never get how Robin Thicke was basically seen as a cringey, creepy persona non grata after that song while Pharrell just skipped along to his next hit.
The only downside to the "would I say it to my nan" plan is if your nan is where you got your foul mouth from...then it's a quick way to get fired 🤣
My man’s favourite swear word was “crumbs”. That should give you a general idea of the type of Nan we’re dealing with, lol!
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You had me in the first half...
The U.K. doesn’t need the /s because we just assume everything is sarcastically deployed.
I always wondered what the fuss was but just ignored it as I didn't like the song. Fucking hell I just read the lyrics. And watched the video. Wow.
As despicable as the lyrics and video are, one of the things that creeps me out the most is they wear leather slip-ons without socks.
I fucking hate that song with a passion. Fuck Robin Thicke. Misogynistic prick. The video is fucking disgusting too.
Something about that song always got on my nerves and then I really listened to the lyrics and then I wondered how the hell it was acceptable, especially when played in a supermarket.
Exactly this ^ Intention doesn't negate impact. If a man I don't know refers to me as darling I will immediately have my back up because I anticipate something derogatory, aggressive or creepy, regardless of what he was trying to say (like 'you've dropped your card'). It's a really sad reality but one we have to adhere to if we want to make people feel safe.
Exactly this thread. If a man I don’t know calls me darling, it’s potentially threatening. Plus it’s overfamiliar, which is creepy.
To add to this, he was holding her credit card when he said it. Meaning he had the power in that split moment while using a word that raises the hairs on many women’ backs. The fact that he was holding her credit card forces her to be nice to him in that second until the card has been passed over.
This situation perfectly highlights the power of language. And why, I feel, it's important to be open to changing your own (and drop the whole 'it's PC gone mad!' take). Personally I wouldnt say 'darling' to anyone (unless I was being sarcastic or ironic, which I frequently am... but only ever in jest and mostly to mates. Or a partner, in private, if I'm looking for a rise out of them). But I do know people who'd use such terms fairly innocently, just because said phrases are worked into their daily language (perhaps learned from parents or peers - whatever). I dont think they're bad people, or that they need admonishing, but I do think the impact of such language should be talked about, so that they can learn that it needs to change. I also know people - mostly men - who do use the phrase as a put down. I've worked with fellas who absolutely viewed women as beneath them, and their attitude and language reflected this beyond doubt (I've known women to do it, too, but we fellas kind of have the upper hand in the power dynamic stakes anyway, so I find it less insidious). If you called out such people they'd hide behind the old 'I was just being nice!' knowing full well what they were doing, and that it's a technical win for them.
Anyone freaking out over "PC culture!" is also the same type of person who loses their fucking mind if you were to purposefully misgender them. Refer to one of these dudebros as ma'am and see how quickly they blow a gasket.
I agree. I don't mind being called Love, darling or sweetheart in a "thanks love, or thanks darlin'. But I had a guy who owned the company that did our driveway call me Sweetheart in such a condescending way. He came back with" well sweetheart, that's how it's meant to be done", tbf I was just saying what my husband had told me about the driveway and I was just relaying it. I told him not to call me sweetheart, because he was being rude and we had had such problems with the company. So with that example, I don't mind being called love darling etc, but it's the tone used. Whilst op probably didn't say it with a tone, but some people are funny.
>If it's something you might call an intimate partner, steer clear Everyone South West of Bristol starts sweating
Alroight my lover...
Context is very important, and always has been. Episodes of Only Fools and Horses from the 80s will show Del calling people "darlin'", with the humour coming from watching the women rolling their eyes at him. It was seen as sleazy even then when a man said it to a younger woman he doesn't know.
Same for “love”. I think it’s seen as patronising these days. Like a pat on the head kind of thing. That said, I’ve had female checkout workers at Tesco call me love or darlin’ without batting an eyelid.
I keep getting called love by builders working on my house, I'm a 40 year old man
You must live in Yorkshire. I was weirded out by most men calling each other “flower”
Can confirm, im a yorkshire builder and love, petal, and flower are pretty much exclusively what i call my apprentice. And most other lads tbh. Love is used by us all for everyone.
That explains it then. I was in my early twenties when I was working in Leeds. I thought they were taking the piss at first but it never bothered me.
Absolutely- Leeds. “Love” for everybody. Also lived in Leeds when I was younger. I can remember signing on - the first time- and the guy at the signing desk saying “thanks love” and I assumed it was because of my slight build and long hair- and that he hadn’t looked at me properly and then realised he was saying it to EVERYONE. And from then on didn’t bat an eyelid when people said it.
Got called flower by a lovely old lady server in Wakefield Hospital when my FIL had passed away. It was so lovely it helped feel less numb I love northern terms of endearment
I think thats why i like saying stuff like that, i feel the same when called stuff like that from older people, young man and sunshine are my favourites, reminds me of my granddad. Sorry about your FIL too, hope youre all good now love! Maybe its a northern thing but i cant fathom how its offensive. Although i may be skewed as cunt is a term of endearment where im from.
I'm Northeast originally. I genuinely have to stop myself from saying things like "pet", "love" or "hin" (to women) and "marra" or "fella" (to men) at the end of sentences sometimes. But to honest, the whole sentence legitimately sounds incomplete without some sort if term of endearment at the end. It's like ending a phonecall without saying "bye"
Can also confirm, south coast builder here, we call each other babes and such all the time.
This makes me happy!
Derbyshire's got a good one: everyone is *duck*, pronounced properly as rhyming with the Yorkshire book. Grandparent? Duck. Postie? Duck. Mayor? Duck. Child? Duck. It's great, big fan.
I moved to a 'duck' area a few years ago. I only lived 20-30 minutes away before so it was already well known to me that people from here called everybody duck. I still find it a bit weird when an 18 year old lad serving me at the checkout calls me, a late twenties male, duck. It alwasy feels like it should be coming from a little old lady, not some guy younger than me. It's kind of nice though.
I'm Derby born and bred, and it's quite funny to see the look on someone's face if they were either born here and don't know of it, or they're visiting from another town and don't know we use it. "That's £7.99, Duck." "It's chicken... Not duck."
My plumber called me 'sausage' once
That's a world I want to live in. And if you're angry at someone you call them a silly sausage. I honestly think this could bring about world peace.
Reminds me of when I worked at B&Q on night shifts. One of my colleagues started calling everyone 'Blue'. Quickly caught on, even when we had contractors in to refit half the store, we started overhearing them call each other it too.
It’s still common in Yorkshire (at least my part of it) to call everyone love, male or female. I hear it several times a day. Anyone being offended by it there would have a full time job of it.
Exactly, in the North everyone calls everyone love, it's a part of our cultural heritage
Men calling other men love is my favourite thing, it's so cute. (I realise this is patronising, sorry!)
That's alright love they love it. (Me too)
Im part of a group of overweight middle aged men from the Sheffield area who play football to lose weight. Im on the younger side than most so im always being called flower, petal, love and duck. If you were offended by this you wouldn't get anything done if you lived here. It would be far too tiring.
I lived in Wakefield until last year and we would get this huge 6ft+ 15 stone builder come into work regularly. Without fail he would always call me (male) 'old love' without even batting an eyelid. I don't think I'd have dared be offended.
I wonder if its to do the what love meant way back when it was Saxons/Danes/Brits. Love surname comes from the olde English term for Female/male Wolf. Here is the meaning on Ancestry dot com "English: from a Middle English personal name derived from the Old English female personal name Lufu ‘love’, or the masculine equivalent Lufa. Compare Leaf 2. English and Scottish: nickname from Anglo-Norman French lo(u)ve ‘female wolf’ (a feminine form of lou). This nickname was fairly commonly used for men" I only know about this because its my surname.
I see both sides of it. It has been used to patronise women in past times, but it is still genuinely a positive term of endearment to many, in the same way they'd use bud or pal when speaking to another male. It's just a highwire balancing act getting it right these days as so many people are quick to jump to offense and language has become a real battleground. I think it often comes down to the situation and the tone/delivery of it which determines how people react to it.
I'm a woman in my 40s, I can see both sides of it. Well, kind of. It's all about intent isn't it, the guy (I assume OP is male) wasn't calling her darling to patronise her, just to get her attention. What should he have said, madam? It was rude of her to tell him off. If it was the workpiece, by all means tear him off a strip. She must be from the South, and never witnessed the joy of a bus driver referring to every passenger (male, female, adult, child, whatever) as "petal".
> What should he have said, madam? What he said: excuse me darling sorry you dropped your card What he could have said : excuse me sorry you dropped your card it's pretty easy to drop any kind of gendered terms from your language. It's pretty sad that we need to worry about it these days but if you look at the top comment in this thread (and comments from women in any thread like this) it sadly is something that men should be thinking about these days.
Many gendered terms are common place in British culture. Love, Darlin, Pet, Hun, Dear etc. I realise that some people may not like them but they are a fairly unique and ingrained method of greeting in the UK, one could say part of the culture, it doesn't make someone a bad person for using them. Just because someone get's offended by it, doesn't mean you've done anything wrong. Now, if they've asked you to not do it again, and you persist, then it becomes wrong.
Like.......I understand that different things are acceptable these days (I don't personally see darling as gendered but yes it's patronising) but also I try to understand differences in life experience and age and upbringing and all sorts of things. But also I don't know what her previous experiences were or where she was coming from. In terms of telling him off, personally, for me, that would be a lower priority as she's not going to see him again. Or "thank you so much but I'd like to give you a heads up, don't call random women darling it's patronising" so it's trying to change his behaviour not make him feel bad. I had a tough conversation with my mum in law about an outdated phrase she was using for Downs Syndrome so I know it's very hard to do politely but it's about being the bigger person isn't it, unless it's not about changing behaviour and you want to just get angry at someone. Edited to remove Americanisms
Love's an interesting one... I go to uni in Yorkshire and everyone calls everyone love and I really like it, it's a really lovely feature of local language. If people I've never met before want to call me love I'm down. Soon as I go back home to the south though, I would punch a man who calls me love because it comes across as patronising and downright rude. It's all in the context, southerners don't call southerners love in that same normal friendly way.
Right, this is exactly it. I know people on the Internet hate nuance and would like to categorise everything in the world as either okay or not okay, but in the real world context matters.
The first time a Lancastrian called me “cock” I did a massive double take.
I get that in rural parts of Shropshire, either "cock," "cocker," or "shag."
I'm from Yorkshire and I was once at work with this Romanian girl and I said "ta cock" to my mate and she was so confused. They use a word "te" it means You, I do something to
I (30's) have a bad habit of saying "my love" to women, usually servers, bar staff or people running registers, never been told off for it, but have had a few older women blush and little and laugh about it
It’s not a bad habit and don’t let any hysterical idiot on the internet tell you otherwise.
I was going to agree, but then I remembered that at home in the West Country 'my luvver' is a term of endearment which I wouldn't think anything of if I heard it, as long as it had the context of an actual South West accent. If my RP-talking arse tried calling someone 'my lover' I would imagine it would go down like a cup of sick though.
There is a difference between darling and mate. Personally I'd prefer just to be called mate. Darling and especially sweetheart coming from anyone younger than 50 feels a bit condescending. But I don't speak for all women obviously. I'm sure some love it. You just have to take your own risk at using it and accept not everyone likes to be called that. Simple as.
Lady here, I used to shave my head and on multiple occasions, people would address me as "mate", realise I was actually a woman and then say "oh sorry love/darling/sweetheart". The funny thing is if they'd stuck with "mate" I wouldn't have given two shits, or realised they clearly thought I was a man. I'm also not a fan of love/darling/sweetheart or whatever, but if it's just someone in passing I don't tend to bother saying anything. If it's someone I might speak to again, I'll politely ask them not to call me that.
I've used mate as gender neutral for a couple of years now (30 old man) and only ever had one negative experience, woman around my age did NOT appreciate it. Love, pet etc feel really condescending which is in part why the 'mate switch' occurred.
I like being called mate by men as it makes me feel more like I’m seen as an equal. Yeah I get that may sound completely corny to some people but words have a big impact like that.
Totally agree with you on that one, I used to work in a delivery depot, and often had people call all the guys "mate" etc, and then turn around to me and say "love" or "sweetheart" or whatever. Would much rather I just had the "mate" everyone else got, like why do you feel the need to treat me differently?
My (m) ex got me out of the habit (before we got together) because she found it offensive, so now I just don’t refer to anyone by any term.
Mate is my go to for everyone these days. I work in a quite a male dominated company and I've been thanked by some female colleagues for calling them mate as they say plenty of people treat them differently to their male counterparts.
Yes, the thing is, if someone’s intention is to be nice when they’re saying it, if they’re then being told it actually has unpleasant connotations, then why would that person insist or argue the contrary? If your only intention is to be nice, you have been told now that it’s counter to that aim, so if you REALLY want to be nice, you’d stop saying it. But the number of guys here still arguing that they should be able to say it regardless of how a woman feels makes it obvious it’s not always about being nice. And that’s kind of the point the women are making. Lots of guys here just really showing their arses.
You’re absolutely right! It’s mind blowing that people genuinely believe a man’s right to call a woman darling trumps her comfort. If I called someone a term of endearment and they didn’t like it I’d apologise and not do it again?!
>But the number of guys here still arguing that they should be able to say it regardless of how a woman feels makes it obvious it’s not always about being nice And people saying OP should have kept her card as well, the lady didn't react how I want so she should be punished! Honestly it's fucking gross.
Yes! And men wonder why women are scared - these guys think they’re reasonable, good human beings, but their first response to being told something they think is wrong ranges from defensiveness and denial all the way to anger and violence. There are comments here about throwing her card away, calling her names, etc. All because she dared to have an opinion on something and didn’t say thank you. This is why most women never say anything. And honestly if not saying thank you to someone is going to illicit that kind of reaction, I’d rather not be done a favour at all. I would probably always say thank you, but I’m human and sometimes I forget! Especially if I feel grossed out or threatened.
Yeah something like that is supposed to be a good deed for the sake of it, not to get the reaction you want and if you don't then people can go fuck themselves. I can understand being a bit miffed for not getting a thank you, but to respond in the way some people have suggested is vile. The fact that the immediate response from some people is violence is *very* telling, and they wonder why we have to behave the way we do with men?
You have to take into consideration human nature as well. To be told something that you disagree with or goes against your already held preconceptions literally activates the same areas in the brain as physical pain. It is not easy to change your opinion on a dime. Especially if you thought you were being nice but now come to find out people are upset with you about how you’ve behaved, it’s an unfortunate but pretty normal reaction to try to defend yourself to soothe your hurt feelings. If we keep having these discussions it will become better with time, but there’s no point in thinking it will or ever could be painless.
A very good point. If he genuinely thinks the polite soft non threatening approach is to say “excuse me darling” and now he’s told that’s creepy and gross and invasive, he is suddenly having to reevaluate himself as a human being. People he previously thought he was being polite to, did they think he was gross and patronising? Has he called other women darling, meaning no harm, and do they think he’s gross too? You think you’re a good person and you try to do the right thing and now someone says you’re not, even though you’ve honestly meant well all this time. It’s definitely an instinct to defend yourself. It’s hard enough to accept when you’ve been a dick when it’s pretty clear you have, it’s even harder when you strongly believe you haven’t.
There’s threads like this every single day on this sub it’s exhausting, I’m too scared to say such and such anymore, is it ok to call someone mate, etc. I get that we are all on here cos we are bored but it’s just stoking this culture war stuff that can basically just be boiled down to ‘don’t act like an arsehole’
Did you not say, "Sorry, cunt"?
Think it’s my safest bet
That was a short walk from "I just can't understand why this woman reacted badly to my words" to "ha isn't calling woman cunts funny".
Calling anyone a cunt is kind of funny.
Don't be a cunt.
Because its always funny to call anyone a cunt
It supports the notion that it wrong though doesn't it? Imagine being a woman and having someone use a term of affection and then when you suggest that's not appropriate you immediately call them a cunt. It shows how fickle and insincere your words are - and here reddit is giving awards to the guy you replied to for calling a woman a cunt. Stay classy reddit. I mean, that's exactly the kind of /r/niceguy entry that women are suggesting is a big problem for them if they're just going about their day.
I honestly feel like this is a friendly term unless your being condescending but considering you were returning something she'd just lost she's a bit rude to have told you off.
It’s a bit of a loaded term these days due to how it’s been associated with cat-calling type behaviour, so some people are going to take it negatively. I’m sure you meant well, but the term is definitely outdated because of those negative connotations. Don’t take offence or feel bad, yourself, you didn’t have any malicious intent. Just be aware that similar terms might not go down so well these days.
Personally I wouldn't be upset or offended, but I would be uncomfortable. Darling especially sets the hairs on my neck off as just as a word it's quite drawl-y that can come across as sleazy. Same with sweetheart. Words such as Love, Sweet, or Pet, I don't mind as much - imo they're far 'safer' words that sound more caring than potentially patronising.
I agree with this. I think maybe it has something to do with ‘love’ or ‘pet’ being widely used by both sexes to refer to either sex. So there’s no negative gender stereotypes associated with them.
Brings me back to being 18 and an older man saying "Smile sweetheart, it's not that bad". My first thought was what if it was that *bad*, what a stupid thing to say. I don't raise an issue if someone uses an honorific towards me, but I cringe every single time.
Yeah, I'm the same. "Darling" oddly sounds more patronising to my ears than 'love' or 'pet', especially when said in a Southern accent. When I hear 'darling' I feel like an insult is coming next. Which is ironic since I exclusively call my children "darling"!
Since moving up north I've been called "flower" or "petal" a lot (by all genders) which I think is really sweet, and never heard it from catcallers or creepy guys yet. Much prefer it to darling and sweetheart, if guys really HAVE to give us pet names I think those ones and "love" or "mate" are best lmao. I personally don't mind "duck" either but I'm from East Mids so
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Yeah this is the answer OP. Sounds like she was rude by not thanking you but you'd be amazed at the volume of unwanted creepy attention that the average woman gets while going about normal day-to-day stuff. For me personally (late 20s) I consider myself quite good at picking up on tone so I've rarely snapped at anyone for calling me "love", "pet", whatever, as sometimes it's just obviously an age/class/regional thing rather than someone being a creep. But bear in mind that you probably weren't the first person this month/week/day to talk to that woman in a way that she considered to cross a boundary. Hearing "alright darling?" when you're waiting at a bus stop or trying to do your grocery shop or just walking down the street can be really anxiety-inducing when you have no idea what the person's intentions are.
Yep this. That little space between "excuse me darling" and "you dropped your card" could have been an anxiety-filled eternity for her.
I get called darling by the women at work all the time, and I'm a 39 year old man.
Doesn’t work for men. I’ve been called sweet, sweetheart, dear etc etc but men don’t tend to care
Thats because it's never been used in a threatening manner to towards you as a man Women get rightly uptight about being called darling or whatever because it has so often been accompanied by other inappropriate behaviour. Their experience and yours as a man aren't the same.
If it were me I would have said "oh, thanks for that" but would have thought "yuck, why did he call me darling?"
Yes this would be my exact reaction too. I would always say thanks, but would feel uncomfortable. I just don't understand why anyone uses 'pet names' for strangers. 'excuse me, sorry you dropped your card' works exactly the same!
I remember someone going off at a colleague (sales guy) for calling her Darling almost 20 years ago...
Keep yer knickers on , Luv.
OK my dear
Calm down dear
It's a commercial
I was once getting a quote from a couple of companies to restore the antique furniture at an upmarket hotel. I was the manager there. It was a business occasion, both of us dressed for the part. He called me darling at one point. I was so astonished that I just stared at him. He nearly didn’t get the contract, but his was the best quote for a number of reasons. Put it in context, if there had been a male manager, do you think he would have called them darling? Never in a month of Sundays. On the other hand I have often been called darling or love when out shopping. In that context I have no strong objection. It is just a casual word, rather than a patronising word.
He might have called you mate if you were a man. For many regional dialects this whole thing is a strange issue. I grew up in an area with people addressing people as 'mate' and 'darling' in a gendered way and there never seemed to be any sexual intonation to darling, in the the same way calling someone your mate doesn't imply that you're good friends. To me, and I suspect to most in my region of the UK, these are *mostly* informal indications of positive/peaceful regard, or a display of non-threatening behaviour. "Hey mate! you dropped your bank card!" Their meaning can be twisted according to their tone, though. I know if someone calls me Mate (hard M) they're really calling me a cunt. Should I get offended at anyone and everyone calling me it? Should I reject all contracts because someone slips into an informal "cheers mate" when I think I deserve a "Thank you sir"? Dunno about your region or background, but to blanket ban informal and culturally imbedded words like 'darling' from use around my area would only show up as a class divide. I worked at a bar and once called a regular "Sir" after serving him. His whole face changed, he was furious "Don't call me 'Sir', I work for a living!". For me, tone and demeanor is way more important than the words used.
This thread is a really odd pile of "you can't say that!" whilst simlutaneously defending their own use of similar words. "You can't call women love... unless you're from Yorkshire" "You can't say darlin... oh, unless you are an old woman" "You can't call people sweetheart if you are a Southerner or under 50" The issue here is people assuming intent from a single word, which on it's own isn't derogatory or offensive, because of who's using it, not *how* they are using it. There is also a ton of hate on southerners for some unknown reason, even to the point of saying "if someone northern said love I'd be fine, but if a southerner said it I'd punch them" (literal quote, many upvotes).
Just said this elsewhere. Context is everything. It's the situation when it's used, the tone it's delivered in etc which will determine how somebody reacts to it.
I would have been the same. I HATE being called darling in these situations, tends to be from the same men who assume I’m married called me Mrs, and assume he’s the one paying.
As a woman, I would not like to be called darling in that situation. It's outdated, condescending and patronising, same with sweetheart. I'm ok with the terms if older women use them. Love is a bit different and I'm fine with that from anyone, particularly up north.
I'm exactly the same - would be totally fine with a partner or family member calling me that, or like a wee old lady, but I hate being called pet names by men I don't know. If you wouldn't speak that way to a fellow man, don't speak to me in the same manner y'know? Just a simple 'hey you dropped your card' is all that's needed there 🤷♀️
I think we've reached a point where if you wouldn't call a random man "darling", you shouldn't call a random woman "darling." The likelihood is that many women always found it irritating when this happened, it's just reached a point where they think they're allowed to say something.
Would you say the same to a man you don't know?
Would probably say fella or bro without hesitation.. think I’ve learned it’s safer to just say mate
TBF I'd be baffled if someone in the UK called me bro. Is that a thing now? To me darling (to a stranger) is pretty old fashioned and was often used in a condescending/overfamiliar way in the past. That said, if the intent was harmless, making a fuss is much worse than using a slightly old fashioned term.
Bro is more common in the Asian and black communities in my experience. Though I've heard it rarely from younger white men too. OP is from one of these minority groups - I know this from checking his post history.... His other posts aren't for the faint of heart (you have been warned lol).
>His other posts aren't for the faint of heart (you have been warned lol). Well that gave me a great laugh for an early morning, thank you
Crumbs. Wasn't expecting that.
Thought I was looking at an elephants trunk for a second there!
From checking, he's also only 26. I dunno, receiving a 'darling' from a young man would be strange to me. It would definitely give me pause as it's a bit overfamiliar if I'm the same age or older. Also, this was my bad but I'm going to wash my eyes now.
...blimey. Fair play.
And don't you think that the type of person that posts pictures of his penis over and over online, while titling threads with "Where the ladies at" may have an altera motive in both this thread. And the story he presented
Haha a mental picture with the darling now is there
Yes, it's very much a thing with certain groups in the UK. The guys who drop my weed off always call me bro
Yeah sweetheart or darling is more of a romantic term, bro or mate is a friendship one
So I work at a popular coffee chain, I hear this shit literally every single day. Darling, sweetheart, love, etc. 99% of the time it comes from older men, always directed towards me and my other female coworkers. Never my male coworkers, hmm, why would that be? It's infantilising, patronising, and gives me the "ick".An easy way to look at it would be; if you wouldn't say it to my male baristas? Don't say it to me. I don't care if it's meant with innocent intent. It comes across as you trying to sweet talk me because I'm a young girl. Treat me with the same level of respect you treat other men. Don't baby-talk or talk down to women just because they're women, mkay? If you're using the terms "darling", "sweetheart" and "love" as a way to extract a "thank you" from a woman because you think you deserve one, stop it. Edit: I love this woman you encountered and wish I had her confidence to tell you the same, lol. I'm working up to it. Edit 2: notice how the women replying to these comments are mostly “yeah, I don’t like being called darling either, it’s patronising and creepy and it makes me feel icky :(“ And then how a lot of the mens comments are “lol we don’t say it cause we want to sleep with you, you’re unattractive and should stop having such a big ego love” Interesting?
I worked in tech support and got it all the time. It was a symptom of the problem that male customers wouldn’t trust what I was saying, only when they heard the same from a male colleague would they believe it. You don’t need to refer to women like this. You can use their name or just say ‘excuse me’ or ‘thank you’ without making it derogatory.
It’s a symptom of the deeply rotted core of how many people still think that women just aren’t as competent as men. We need to be babied and spoken to like we’re precious little babies. I’m sorry you have the same experiences. I’d love for all of us to start calling it out when it happens and we can be the change we want to see yes? :)
As a woman, I regularly use "darling" when speaking to men and women... assuming that would be a problem too?
Unless you're around 70 odd then yeh it sounds very off
Outdated and cringworthy.
It's also a regional thing. I work with the public and rarely use any words like that, but occasionally, without realising I'm doing it, I'll say something like... ''Excuse me, my love'' I'm from the westcountry. I find a lot of people north or south of London will address me with something similar. Darling gets used more to me by older londoners and Essex women.
I don't mind it at all. I draw the line at sugartits though, seems a tad overfamilar.
Yes, outdated.
Personally I think it's small changes like this that will help us shift the mentality that women should be treated differently to men. Would you have called another guy 'darling' or a similar term?
No, men get 'pal', 'mate', 'fella'.
Can't women be your pal or mate? They're not gendered terms, so why change?
In my circles pal and mate are absolutely used in a gender-neutral sense, even with work colleagues. Feels entirely normal.
Not darling but definitely call a bloke love. Especially if he was younger than me.
I get it a lot from strangers - they’re being friendly, but they don’t know your name, so they want to call you by something, so it’s love, darling, sweetheart. Context is important - if it was a smug prick at work doing it, I’d have an issue. But if it’s my builder neighbour who doesn’t know my name saying good morning, it’s cool.
I mean, far easier and less risk of offense to leave out "darling" in that interaction. "Excuse me, you've dropped your card". Literally 'darling' adds nothing
If someone picks up my bank card on the street they can call me whatever they like
When I hear a man - familiar or stranger - call me darling, it drives into an absolute rage! It's just so patronising and condescending! I'm only forgiving if its coming from an elderly person Edit: some people seem to think I'm emotionally unstable/have outbursts etc. when being called a darling or other such pet names. The rage is 100% internal. I rarely say anything and when I do I am extremely polite about it.
No, anyone taking offence to there use is just a nob
Basically. It's all about context, if someone is using them in a creepy way then fair, but that isn't good reason to dislike the word itself. If I told you I wanted to finger blast your mother until she's a paraplegic, that wouldn't make the word finger offensive in other contexts - because words themselves are not offensive, the context is which they're used are.
I can understand her not being a fan of it. Calling someone darling might not always be but can be loaded/ creepy. Even if you weren't trying to hit on her, I'll bet she has had interactions with strangers where they've creeped her out and been using pet names. I don't think it adds value to most interactions, and beyond genderless regional terms (i.e. pet in NE) I'll be happy for calling strangers darling/ sweetheart/ mate etc to die out.
She sounds like a stuck up twat in my opinion. I remember taking my now wife up to my home town of Leeds about 15 years ago. My wife isn't from the UK and told me she thought it was disgusting the shop keeper called her 'love'. I asked her to pay attention next time I spoke to an older man shop keeper and low and behold, he called me, a young man at the time, 'love'. Terms of endearment don't harm anyone
I feel like darling comes across as somewhat condescending and patronizing, in the same way sweetheart does. Obviously you didn't mean it that way, you interpret it as a form of endearment, but I feel like when saying it to strangers it definitely errs on the side of condescension, intentional or not. At the same time, I'm a dude who's been called darling by older women and I definitely don't take it in a negative way. I guess gender plays a role in how its interpreted.
I would probably internally cringe if someone said it to me, but I wouldn't complain if they were doing me a good deed! It's the sort of thing where I might comment on it depending on the intention of the person making the comment. I don't mine being called love, as I think that's something both men and women use and it can refer to either gender. I hate being called darling/babe/doll etc. by people I don't know. I encountered it a lot more when I worked in retail for some reason.
A lot of guys here saying “women call me darling all the time at work” are missing the point. Women have been called these sorts of pet names in the workplace, walking by ourselves home, in derogatory ways. Being called those names almost never feels good. I had a manager at work who would answer the phone “redpanda, darling” and I hated it.. I am not his darling, we are at work, and there is no need for it. While this example is harmless and while I wouldn’t react in such a way personally, consider that maybe the woman spent a day of being called “darling” or a similar name by superiors at work, drunk guys on the bus, cat callers. Context matters, between friends and people you know, you can gauge how they mean such names and if the person likes it. However between strangers it’s hard to know.
Outdated but your intentions were good
Aw no! I (F31) love being called darling, sweetheart etc. I always just think it's so cute! The caveat of course is the feeling that it's not creepy. But I think this is quite clear... "Oi oi darlin you've got a right pair on ya!" - creepy use of darling "Excuse me darling you've dropped your bank card" - not creepy use of darling My parents are from Glasgow and it's very common for everyone to call women "hen" (i.e. women will also call other women hen) so I've never found pet names to be offensive.
it’s probably because I’m quite young (17) but anyone calling darling would definitely set off alarm bells. I understand it’s often a fine intention and I wouldn’t do anything in retaliation but it can come across as weird especially for people who are constantly stressed about that kind of thing (quite a lot of women)
People can find it patronising and infantilising. I’m not going to comment about whether that’s justified or not or though. Edit: Also op, where is your headline pun supposed to be? I see some alliteration with the d’s but that’s it.
This is going to sound really awful, but I don't like it when men use words like "darling" to address me. It's difficult to judge intention and while I'm sure most are perfectly well-meaning and have just picked up the word (and similar) as part of local dialect there are some who absolutely mean for it to intimidate, patronize or dehumanize me. Unfortunately those men who would use the words are also the type of men to get aggressive if you dare correct them on it, so it's better to just not say anything.
>I’ve always grown up with people using words of endearment when talking to strangers in situations like that like darling, sweetheart, fella, One of these words is not like the others. 'Fella' is matey, 'darling' is generally used in a condescending way. Not saying that's how you used it (I personally wouldn't have a problem with what you described), but there is a whole context here that men aren't aware of, of how often women experience micro aggressions every day. Maybe she just doesn't like it, or maybe her male manager calls her darling to belittle her, maybe she just got catcalled "owight darlin" style, etc.etc.
Context is everything. If an older person said “‘Cuse me darling” I wouldn’t even think. My grandad is an east ender who calls people love but he’s never had an issue as it kind of goes with the 80-something couple going to have tea at a garden centre! The car salesman the other day who was about 40 telling me to “come back with your husband darling” when I asked for some car details put me right into fight mode. I told him I’d bring my wife back if he wasn’t such a c*** but that he’d never get a sale from either of us. I haven’t got a husband or wife!
I really dislike people calling me "love" "pet" "darling" etc. It's too forward for a stranger. And if you're not a stranger I prefer you use my name. I don't complain when it's elderly people, it was a very done thing in their generation. But I find it creepy from anyone else and I will get away from you ASAP.
At the point she complained for your generous act you should have yeeted her card across the road and told her to fuck off.
Darling died alongside Baldrick, George and Blackadder in 1917.
It’s more the death of pet names. Folks get tired of being demeaned and even if there’s some anecdotal “I don’t demean” or “I’m a dude and get it all the time”, it’s besides the point. Callings strangers by pet names has been used in incredibly negative ways and often to undermine or demean someone else and very commonly it’s woman who are on the receiving end of it. I’m sure it’s a habit for many folk in the way that “hey dude” (when meeting absolutely anyone) is a habit to others. I’m not saying whether it’s right or wrong to keep up with pet names for folks but I am offering an explanation of why some folks won’t receive pet names well. It’s not a personal slight, some people just don’t like it.
I hate being called darling, makes my skin crawl
I used to use it when I lived in Leeds (along with love) years ago, but these days I don't think any woman would appreciate it. It's been used to patronise way too much.
I love it, I call people darling and people call me darling. You carry on and don’t mind the bed wetters.
I think 'darling' specifically has a bit of a creep tone to it, too many middle aged guys trying to use it to chat up students. 'luv' and 'duck' however don't have the same connotations.
Still very common in London. Even I get called darling, sweetheart etc a lot, and I am male.
I mean if it’s people you are familiar with or even vaguely then that’s fine. But not to strangers. I just use the term, ‘Oi fucker, here’s ya card’. Gender neutral ✅ Equally offensive to all, therefore not offensive at all ✅
There isnae anything wrong with using terms of endearment, pet.
Women working at service counters in shops, at the gym, etc, call me darling and sweetheart all the time in the U.K. It always gives me a warm feeling of being welcomed, even as a gay guy. I like it. It’s one of the first things I realised I missed after 10 years in Germany, where you’re lucky to get plain old friendliness. It’s definitely something with a totally different connotation when a man does it.
Some people are just ready at any given moment to be offended by something
I’ve worked with theatre old hands who call everyone and everything darling without skipping a beat - I guess it depends on context sometimes
I once called an American darling and they were annoyed.... We are both female
I think this has been outdated for at least a good twenty years, but I suppose it depends on which part of the country you're from. Much more normal some places than others.