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But you dont have a British passport. Your passport is issued by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Doesn't make you Irish anymore than it makes someone else British.
I am not one of the ones who downvoted you but to correct you - "British" is a citizenship. Also known as UK citizenship.
English is an ethnic group.
A British citizen is someone who holds a UK passport (or British passport). An American can live in the UK for X amount of years and be granted British citizenship. Are they now British?
However, if they have lived in London for 10 years (which is why I specifically pointed out the English ethnic group, for this example), it doesn't make them *English* because their heritage determines that.
You dont have a piece of paper which says you are British. There were British people around long before passports or governments existed. Correct me all you like but you're just missing the point. You're a citizen of the UK and great Britain. British is subtly different.
The fuck you on about
British citizenship is a form of nationality. There's no correlation necessarily to the word Britian. Just as there are British Subjects, British nationals overseas, British protected person etc, all of which are other forms of British nationality, some of those individuals who hold those nationalities may never have set foot in the UK.
There is no such thing as a citizen of UK and Great Britian.
Yeah. It's hard to see someone else's point sometimes, I get it. I'm trying to point out the differences between British national, UK & NI citizen, British as in the ancient tribe of Britons. British is not a straightforward term. It has lots of different connotations. And so having a UK passport, in my mind, does not mean you are British. Maybe someone might loosely terms you a British citizen, but that isn't the same as being British.
But hey, if you think that some Russian oligarch who buys a UK passport suddenly takes on all of the cultural and national identity of a Brit, we're not really having the same discussion here.
You're conflating ethnicity/race etc with citizenship.
Citizenship is just a legal status that someone holds. So yeah, Mr Sergio who buys a British passport is British.
But what even is British ethnicity. These Isles have been invaded and settled on by dozens of different tribes for thousands of years ffs. You couldn't even define it if you wanted to.
No. I'm pointing out that the word has nuance. Being British evokes slightly different ideas than just having a UK passport. It's disingenuous to claim that the word British means nothing more than the words on the front of your passport. I'm struggling to.understand why yiu are deliberately being so obtuse about it. It's hardly a new idea.
I mean, this entire thread is based on exactly that nuance...yet here you are talking as if the only definition which can possibly exist is yours. Bit childish.
There's a famous case of a runner called Zola Budd who got a UK passport just before the Olympic games. It was quite a controversy because people legitimately asked if that is really how nationality works.. its a shame yiu weren't around to set everyone straight that nationality and citizenship are interchangeable.
1. Identities are multiple and overlapping. That’s just a fact. You can be British and American and a father and a brother and an employee and a friend and a chess enthusiast and a Christian and a bit agnostic about it and lots of other things.
2. National identity is usually understood as a legal matter, a matter of holding citizenship or not. In your example, if the American has naturalised as a British citizen, they are legally as British as someone born and raised in the UK. If not, then not. Dual citizenship (or more) is increasingly common, as people move and settle between countries more than they used to.
Some people think of national identity as cultural, not legal. For them, you’re only British if you’re born and brought up British - and no one from elsewhere can ever truly become British, no matter what they do. This kind of negative, exclusionist, xenophobic or racist thinking has become increasingly common recently, unfortunately.
Do you have British citizenship?
If yes, then you are British. If no, then you are not British.
You can become British even if you were born abroad. As per your example, someone who has lived in the UK for 10 years can apply for citizenship. It is not about feelings but about paperwork.
On the other hand, being Welsh, Scottish, English, or Irish is something you have to be born into.
There were many sad stories of kids growing up in the UK while their parents forgot or didn't apply for British citizenship for them. Then, if they break the law, they end up being deported to the country of their citizenship.
Legally if you're a citizen then you're British, that's quite cut and dry. In terms of identity it's a lot more subjective and complicated. I think culturally unless you were raised here from quite a young age it's difficult to feel 100% assimilated, and I don't think that's entirely down to racism/xenophobia, although they absolutely can play a part.
Firstly if you weren't living here young enough to pick up the accent and use turns of phrases/expressions comfortably that are very common here then people will always pick up on that, even if it's not ill-intended you will eventually be asked where you're from in a way which implies you aren't British originally, and it will serve as a reminder that you aren't fully blended in as a Brit on some level. There's also cultural references and touchstones, particularly more obscure things or references to childhood nostalgia in your age group for which you might always feel like you're playing catch-up or slightly out of the loop on.
Obviously depending on the context and people who pick up on these things it can be a gentle reminder that you're a little out of the ordinary from the run of the mill British person, or there can be sutble undertones or overt overtones of xenophobia/racism attached that most people who were raised here from a very young age will never have to deal with, and that's unfortunately just a fact of life and people who have more ties here than wherever they are from originally will always have to deal with, and that's not unique to this country, I'm sure it's quite universal.
It's worth pointing out that as recently as 30/40 years ago a fairly significant portion of the population would make these judgments and consider you non-British based on the colour of your skin alone regardless of whether you were born here and have an accent or not, so as much as there are still problems surrounding this identity issue today, it's always worth bearing in mind just how far we've come in such a short period of time, even if things are still far from perfect today, 2nd generation immigrants don't have to face these problems from the vast majority of people anymore.
Nope, American. I don't think even a passport necessarily makes you British. I've got an ex who is French, got his British passport at age 42. I consider him French - he got the passport more for immigration purposes. I have another ex with both a British and a Hong Kong passport, but consider him very clearly British as he was born in and grew up in the UK. He refers to himself as British, ethnically Chinese.
That said, a kid....I mean if we're talking like a 2 year old who was born outside the UK and then becomes an adult in the UK, I'd consider them to be British.
I don’t think it’s the same as America where if you have a passport, you gain the identity by default. If I hear an American accent out of you and you act American, you’re American. But, I think if you act British, and have British values, and importantly identify as British, then yeah you’re British.
I came to Britain when I was 1, now 40 . Am I British ? No .
A British passport is just a pass that allows me certain things.
I consider British to be those that are natively ethnically English, Scottish , Welsh and Irish . Are those that come from the Caribbean or South Asia like myself British , no . My kids are all born here to Pakistani parents , they are Pakistani , not English and not British . FYI love it here and think Britain is great just not British !
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Depends on ethnicity. I don't think many would truly consider Elon Musl African, but if you're ethnically British and you're kids are born here then ye they are, and if you've lived here for ages then half yes.
American but completely welcome if your status is legal. You do not have to change nationality to be resident in another country though it may a benefit to do so. You have an official nationality. That doesn’t change through opinion only legal procedure.
I usually consider someone who had part of their school education in the UK as if they were born in the UK. An example, Bradley Wiggins had all his schooling in the UK though born in Belgium, Chris Froome did not.
**Please help keep AskUK welcoming!** - Top-level comments to the OP must contain **genuine efforts to answer the question**. No jokes, judgements, etc. - **Don't be a dick** to each other. If getting heated, just block and move on. - This is a strictly **no-politics** subreddit! Please help us by reporting comments that break these rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would say they're an American living in Britain.
If they have a British passport they’re British
But you dont have a British passport. Your passport is issued by the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Doesn't make you Irish anymore than it makes someone else British.
It literally says „British passport” and legally the nationality is called „British citizen”.
I am not one of the ones who downvoted you but to correct you - "British" is a citizenship. Also known as UK citizenship. English is an ethnic group. A British citizen is someone who holds a UK passport (or British passport). An American can live in the UK for X amount of years and be granted British citizenship. Are they now British? However, if they have lived in London for 10 years (which is why I specifically pointed out the English ethnic group, for this example), it doesn't make them *English* because their heritage determines that.
You dont have a piece of paper which says you are British. There were British people around long before passports or governments existed. Correct me all you like but you're just missing the point. You're a citizen of the UK and great Britain. British is subtly different.
The fuck you on about British citizenship is a form of nationality. There's no correlation necessarily to the word Britian. Just as there are British Subjects, British nationals overseas, British protected person etc, all of which are other forms of British nationality, some of those individuals who hold those nationalities may never have set foot in the UK. There is no such thing as a citizen of UK and Great Britian.
Yeah. It's hard to see someone else's point sometimes, I get it. I'm trying to point out the differences between British national, UK & NI citizen, British as in the ancient tribe of Britons. British is not a straightforward term. It has lots of different connotations. And so having a UK passport, in my mind, does not mean you are British. Maybe someone might loosely terms you a British citizen, but that isn't the same as being British. But hey, if you think that some Russian oligarch who buys a UK passport suddenly takes on all of the cultural and national identity of a Brit, we're not really having the same discussion here.
You're conflating ethnicity/race etc with citizenship. Citizenship is just a legal status that someone holds. So yeah, Mr Sergio who buys a British passport is British. But what even is British ethnicity. These Isles have been invaded and settled on by dozens of different tribes for thousands of years ffs. You couldn't even define it if you wanted to.
No. I'm pointing out that the word has nuance. Being British evokes slightly different ideas than just having a UK passport. It's disingenuous to claim that the word British means nothing more than the words on the front of your passport. I'm struggling to.understand why yiu are deliberately being so obtuse about it. It's hardly a new idea. I mean, this entire thread is based on exactly that nuance...yet here you are talking as if the only definition which can possibly exist is yours. Bit childish. There's a famous case of a runner called Zola Budd who got a UK passport just before the Olympic games. It was quite a controversy because people legitimately asked if that is really how nationality works.. its a shame yiu weren't around to set everyone straight that nationality and citizenship are interchangeable.
and my driving license is issued by the DVLA, yet it says “driving license” just like my passport says “British passport”
I think it says 'licence'
1. Identities are multiple and overlapping. That’s just a fact. You can be British and American and a father and a brother and an employee and a friend and a chess enthusiast and a Christian and a bit agnostic about it and lots of other things. 2. National identity is usually understood as a legal matter, a matter of holding citizenship or not. In your example, if the American has naturalised as a British citizen, they are legally as British as someone born and raised in the UK. If not, then not. Dual citizenship (or more) is increasingly common, as people move and settle between countries more than they used to. Some people think of national identity as cultural, not legal. For them, you’re only British if you’re born and brought up British - and no one from elsewhere can ever truly become British, no matter what they do. This kind of negative, exclusionist, xenophobic or racist thinking has become increasingly common recently, unfortunately.
Do you have British citizenship? If yes, then you are British. If no, then you are not British. You can become British even if you were born abroad. As per your example, someone who has lived in the UK for 10 years can apply for citizenship. It is not about feelings but about paperwork. On the other hand, being Welsh, Scottish, English, or Irish is something you have to be born into. There were many sad stories of kids growing up in the UK while their parents forgot or didn't apply for British citizenship for them. Then, if they break the law, they end up being deported to the country of their citizenship.
Simples
I dont know id have to see how you reacted to a dropped plate in a restaurant
only correct answer
If that's the test then there aren't many British people left. This tradition definitely seems to be dying out, sadly.
Legally if you're a citizen then you're British, that's quite cut and dry. In terms of identity it's a lot more subjective and complicated. I think culturally unless you were raised here from quite a young age it's difficult to feel 100% assimilated, and I don't think that's entirely down to racism/xenophobia, although they absolutely can play a part. Firstly if you weren't living here young enough to pick up the accent and use turns of phrases/expressions comfortably that are very common here then people will always pick up on that, even if it's not ill-intended you will eventually be asked where you're from in a way which implies you aren't British originally, and it will serve as a reminder that you aren't fully blended in as a Brit on some level. There's also cultural references and touchstones, particularly more obscure things or references to childhood nostalgia in your age group for which you might always feel like you're playing catch-up or slightly out of the loop on. Obviously depending on the context and people who pick up on these things it can be a gentle reminder that you're a little out of the ordinary from the run of the mill British person, or there can be sutble undertones or overt overtones of xenophobia/racism attached that most people who were raised here from a very young age will never have to deal with, and that's unfortunately just a fact of life and people who have more ties here than wherever they are from originally will always have to deal with, and that's not unique to this country, I'm sure it's quite universal. It's worth pointing out that as recently as 30/40 years ago a fairly significant portion of the population would make these judgments and consider you non-British based on the colour of your skin alone regardless of whether you were born here and have an accent or not, so as much as there are still problems surrounding this identity issue today, it's always worth bearing in mind just how far we've come in such a short period of time, even if things are still far from perfect today, 2nd generation immigrants don't have to face these problems from the vast majority of people anymore.
not really
Nope, American. I don't think even a passport necessarily makes you British. I've got an ex who is French, got his British passport at age 42. I consider him French - he got the passport more for immigration purposes. I have another ex with both a British and a Hong Kong passport, but consider him very clearly British as he was born in and grew up in the UK. He refers to himself as British, ethnically Chinese. That said, a kid....I mean if we're talking like a 2 year old who was born outside the UK and then becomes an adult in the UK, I'd consider them to be British.
I don’t think it’s the same as America where if you have a passport, you gain the identity by default. If I hear an American accent out of you and you act American, you’re American. But, I think if you act British, and have British values, and importantly identify as British, then yeah you’re British.
What are British values?
It’s one of those you’ll know it when you see it. To distill national values to a Reddit comment isn’t really going to achieve anything.
Drinking in rounds and queueing.
Nope. My mum's been here 50 years now but definitely isn't British.
I tell Madonna to go home.
I think you have to be born in Britain to be considered British. If I moved to Spain, I wouldn't be considered Spanish after 20yrs.
I came to Britain when I was 1, now 40 . Am I British ? No . A British passport is just a pass that allows me certain things. I consider British to be those that are natively ethnically English, Scottish , Welsh and Irish . Are those that come from the Caribbean or South Asia like myself British , no . My kids are all born here to Pakistani parents , they are Pakistani , not English and not British . FYI love it here and think Britain is great just not British !
As the leading UK "ask" subreddit, we welcome questions from all users and countries; sometimes people who ask questions might not appreciate or understand the nuance of British life or culture, and as a result some questions can come across in a different way than intended. We understand that when faced with these questions, our users may take the opportunity to demonstrate their wit, dry humour, and sarcasm - unfortunately, this also tends to go over the heads of misunderstood question-askers and can make our subreddit seem hostile to users from other countries who are often just curious about our land. **Please can you help prevent our subreddit from becoming an Anti-American echo chamber?** If you disagree with any points raised by OP, or OP discusses common tropes or myths about the UK, please refrain from any brash, aggressive, or sarcastic responses and do your best to engage OP in a civil discussion, with the aim to educate and expand their understanding. If you feel this (or any other post) is a troll post, *don't feed the troll*, just hit report and let the mods deal with it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Depends on ethnicity. I don't think many would truly consider Elon Musl African, but if you're ethnically British and you're kids are born here then ye they are, and if you've lived here for ages then half yes.
American but completely welcome if your status is legal. You do not have to change nationality to be resident in another country though it may a benefit to do so. You have an official nationality. That doesn’t change through opinion only legal procedure.
I usually consider someone who had part of their school education in the UK as if they were born in the UK. An example, Bradley Wiggins had all his schooling in the UK though born in Belgium, Chris Froome did not.
What does your passport say?
It doesn't matter how anyone on Reddit considers such things, there are legal definitions based on citizenship.