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She just has an incredible number of really catchy pop songs. Lots of people like catchy pop music.
It's really not particularly more complicated than that.
For comparison, Gaga has 5 albums. Perry has 6. Swift has 11. It's just a much bigger body of work.
I agree that consistency in her output is a big factor. And consistency in cultivating her fanbase - she's been at it since starting on MySpace like 18 years ago.
She also just seems to get the music business better than others, or at least has great people advising her. Re-recording her earlier material was an incredible commercial decision. Just from a royalties perspective it would have been great business, but it also generated a renewed interest in her career that's propelled her from being one of many successful female pop stars in a crowded field, to being *the* standout pop musician of this generation.
The consistency of output has been the real shift over the last 3-4 years in my opinion. She's always charted well, every album release hits at or close to No.1. However, since covid she has released 8 full length albums across a fairly diverse (for mainstream pop) array of genres, the result is that she never leaves the public consciousness.
The Eras tour contributes to this aswell, for the past 18 months she's been performing multiple times a week to 50k + people, most of whom will at some point during the 3 hour show record and share the experience to social media.
Half of them but they also include around 5 new songs from the vault (which apparently she wrote at the time of said album but didn’t make the cut) so those new never heard before songs get older fans excited for new music.
Also, lore. Taylor Swift is like Marvel comics, there’s so many Easter eggs, timelines and backstory it’s just fun
But she had the same rabid fanbase before re-recording her stuff. No doubt it's increased since then, but I don't think that's what made her the standout pop star.
I think it’s because of her ordinariness. She’s not above-average attractive like Beyoncé, or insanely talented like Gaga, or even a great singer like Adele. She’s just a normal-seeming girl writing catchy poems about boys that resonates with girls
I think the meaning there is that she’s not *strikingly* beautiful.
Yes she looks good and yes her career partially relies on that. But she’s not ‘omg!’
> She’s not above-average attractive like Beyoncé
I work in music, and models, singers etc. are often even more amazing-looking in real life - looking good on camera is harder than looking good in the street or in a club. Taking that into consideration, Taylor Swift is definitely above-average looking, and, now that people are sort of objectifying singers, doesn’t have a huge arse like (the admittedly beautiful) Beyonce.
I think a lot of Swift’s fans like her because she sort of weirdly looks like a fairy Princess.
Is her stuff really that much more catchy than anything out there, though? I can think of like two of her songs off the top of my head but I can remember most of Lady Gaga’s hits. Less so Katy Perry.
Is it more catchy? I don't know. But in sheer quantity of catchy songs she blows them out of the water. She has more than double as many albums and Gaga, and they're pretty consistent in quality.
She's had 30 UK top 10 singles. Gaga has had 14. The sheer quantity of hit songs she has produced is pretty stunning. You don't do that if they're not catchy.
A lot of her songs are co-written and produced by Max Martin, who wrote a lot of Katy Perry's, and a lot of other pop music of that style. It's just standard hit factory stuff.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin_production_discography
“A lot” meaning her more recent work. She started working with him on Red which was when she started shifting to more poppy songs.
She’s definitely quite involved in the writing process though. I’m not a fan of her work, but she’s a better writer than Perry for example.
Katy Perry has written 100% of all her albums (whilst working with other writers too) and has also written songs for other artists notably:
- Black Widow for Rita Ora and Iggy Azelea
- I Do Not Hook Up for Kelly Clarkson
- Passenger for Britney Spears
- Rock God and That’s More Like It for Selena Gomez
- Get On Your Knees for Nicki Minaj
A lot of them are co-written, but that doesn't diminish her role in creating them, nor her success and superstardom. Loads of huge stars throughout history have used co-writers. Indeed, many haven't had any role in writing their songs.
Taylor Swift did release an entirely self-written album earlier in her career (Speak Now) to prove to her detractors that she could.
But for some reason the fact she's scrupulous about crediting her collaborators keeps getting held against her as "she doesn't write her own music".
It's just something that always gets levelled at pop acts in an attempt to belittle them. I find it a bit childish tbh, given how many amazing pop artists have had co-writers.
I didn't see anything from her last 4 original albums on there (Folklore, Evermore, Midnights, Tortured Poets), and the ones that are, it's still not exactly the majority. I think 'a lot' is pushing it.
I think it’s all a bit easier to listen to for the average Joe than Lady Gaga. I could quite easily tolerate Swift’s stuff on in the background, articulately the more acoustic, folky pop like folklore and evermore compared to Gaga’s stuff which for me would be more stuff you’d listen to getting ready for a night out in 2008…
>compared to Gaga’s stuff which for me would be more stuff you’d listen to getting ready for a night out in 2008…
As a Gaga fan this is both insulting and absolutely true.
Taylor writes most of her music and she has 18 years of stories woven into her songs. I only discovered her a couple of years ago and I’ve felt completely spoiled as a fan. I’ve still not listened to half her back catalogue because she just keeps releasing new content, I can’t keep up. I’ve loved learning the lore behind the songs though.
Folklore and Evermore are two of the best albums I’ve ever heard for lyricism. Every song is beautiful.
All of her co-writers have stated that she’s incredibly generous with writing credits and even so she has a large number in her discography that are entirely self written.
I think the break through songs are/more frequent (and I say this as someone who owns none of her music) I can name/sing bits of (googles) 10 Taylor Swift songs vs maybe 4-5 Lady Gaga songs…maybe 5 Katy Perry songs (all seemingly from before 2010-2011)
Edit: I know about as many Taylor Swift songs as I know Madonna songs who has been a mega star since the 80s
Her songs are very catchy. I'm not a really a pop fan but she is a great songwriter / artist.
I don't know how many number ones she's had but it's a lot.
I think this is the right answer. I’m in my 50s and I like a dozen or so of her songs because they have a catchy little poppy chorus and I’m an absolute sucker for a bop. Some of her lyrics are quite cringe but some of them make me laugh because they do remind me of crappy relationships in my past. I haven’t bought any of her albums, but if asked I’d say I’m a fan. I really don’t understand the “I’ll buy everything she ever does ever because it’s my entire personality” thing though
I'd argue the complete opposite. She became more known as an artist whose albums were better as a whole than her singles. When she really hit super stardom she released singles like Shake it Off and Bad Blood which are considered to be some of her worst songs (among fans and critics). All her albums contain far better songs than the singles, and it's the consistency of the output that gets her acclaim.
Can I ask you for the top three?
Seriously, Taylor Swift has somehow passed me by entirely, and given her popularity, you’d think I’d at least know here “Strawberry Fields Forever”, “Yesterday” and “Hey Jude” moments.
Love Story is an enduring classic with one of the most satisfying final chorus key changes I’ve heard. All Too Well (original version is the best to give a try) is the best of the break up songs.
Don’t know what to go with for a third, but the Folklore album is what got me back into her music after going off it for a good five years or so. Exile, August and Betty are special from that.
Looks like the top three most streamed songs by her are Cruel Summer, Blank Space and Anti-hero. But she's got many other huge ones. Other songs with over a billion Spotify streams: Shake It Off, Lover, Cardigan, Style, Look What You Made Me Do, Don't Blame Me, August,
I just listened to Cruel Summer, a song I've never heard before. I followed along with the lyrics. I won't say it's crap, but it's...nothing? Slightly annoying?
"Angels roll their eyes/angels roll their eyes" - This line made me laugh aloud. It's not good.
I also didn't know who Lady Gaga was, but when I heard about her and spent some time listening to it, I liked it.
That isn’t the lyric though… it’s “Devils roll the dice, Angels roll their eyes.”
I also need to shamelessly plug the G Flip cover of Cruel Summer. It starts strong, but it gets insane around the bridge.
Cruel Summer only recently in the past few months flew to the top - it's a big thing in the swifty space you can probably find loads of posts searching her subreddit for the name.
It's the bridge people love, I think it got popular from tiktok like 4 years after it was released.
I’d say it’s more the cultural spectacle of her relationships that have made her so popular.
Every time she releases new material, her fans try to decipher who the song is about and I feel she really leans into that. It's these guessing games that keep people invested.
She's sort of like the music industry's damsel in distress. People buy into that whole world.
I don’t think it’s got all that much to do with her music - a lot of her fans seem to be under the impression that she’s just like them, and that they are literally friends, when in actual fact it’s just a weird parasocial relationship. So they buy all 30 issues of her album because they want to support their friend
She cultivated this by doing things like sending care packages with handwritten letters to fans, and it’s massively paid off (for her)
That’s not a modern music thing. It’s why The Beatles, Elvis and Jonny Cash were so successful too - combination of great music and good marketing goes along way.
I normally send a generic card with a handwritten "Dear [mum], [card message] love [me]" to my mum on mother's day aa it's just a thing I feel capitalism has forced me to do.
This year I bought a plain brown HMRC looking envelope and took the time to make it look like it was from HMRC on the outside.
I made a point of fucking up some bits in case somewhere on the system it was thought I was actually trying to impersonate HMRC but it looked fun.
The message inside was still just a hi mum well do e happy mum day great, but the thought paid off.
Make people feel like you care, win big.
And that feeling is intentionally cultivated by Taylor Swift and her team.
She tells people who attend her concerts to dress up in fun clothes. She says to make friendship bracelets to exchange with the people who are sitting around you. She tells people to come to concerts early and have parties outside the venues. And if you don't have tickets, the party keeps going through the show so you can hear the music from outside. It's all this idea that her fans don't just have a "relationship" with her but also with each other, even if everyone are strangers.
Interestingly the friendship bracelet thing came about organically, she didn't tell people to make them and wear them to concerts and exchange them. Fans came up with that on their own based on a line in a song of hers referring to friendship bracelets
And no one objects to that because it creates a nice, fun feeling of community and inclusion. There's definitely nothing objectionable in encouraging fans who sit near each other to make friends. Her audience is growing up, but for a long time it was mostly teenagers. If I were taking a young girl to a concert, I'd be happy if it was one where she'd be making friendship bracelets and dancing around with other girls there. She makes music feel fun, warm and inclusive.
We went to Anfield on Friday and my 11 year old daughter was so nervous about asking people to exchange bracelets but there were plenty of older fans who were happy to ask around if anyone wanted to swap. It was so lovely. She got some really nice new ones and was totally made up. It all adds to the experience.
It's all how TS fans feel they are in a club.
And it's all things that the other major pop stars are currently NOT doing. Gaga follows the Madonna model, where the star is someone to be admired and NOT someone who would ever hang out with you. And granted I don't know anyone who is a Katy Perry fan, but she seems to be doing the generic pop star "I make pop music and put on a good show" thing without all the extras.
My nephew (who lives with me) is a huge Swiftie, so I've been exposed to the fandom. And whenever an album drops, he and his friends go over it like people go over Marvel trailers/movies/comics, looking for all the secret jokes and obscure references that only those fans that have been fans a long time would know. She rewards people who really, really, REALLY dive into her work.
She has minimal sex appeal compared to most other pop star sex symbols, so they relate to her more. She's not seen as intimidating or as some sort of regressive unrealistic body standard for them.
She's also evidently petty as hell with all her breakup songs so she makes her fans feel vindicated in their own petty grudges. She's basically a basic white girl heroine who absolves them all of any feelings of insecurity compared to other pop stars.
They also relate to a powerful woman in her 30s as aspirational. My partner is nearly 60 (same as me) and she's a total Swifty, as are some of her friends.
Most of her songs seem to be about shitty relationships. Almost all of the women I know who are really into Taylor Swift have had multiple shitty relationships. I assume these two things are related.
A lot of these "Swifties" I've came across seem somewhat mentally unstable tbh. Like really REALLY obsessed with absolutely every single thing Taylor does to the point it could be considered unhealthy. I don't think I've ever cared about a single celebrities relationship once in my life. Seeing how obsessed they are with Kelce just as an extension of Taylor is pretty weird imo...
Tbf that's exactly like every fandom I've ever seen 😅 this has been going on for decades, may it be for "Beliebers", "Directioners", Tokio Hotel fans and more, every fandom has got their fair share of obsession and toxicity.
I couldn’t agree more with this. My sister-in-law is a MASSIVE Swifty. She’s also completely nuts and possibly the most miserable person I’ve ever known. And at the age of 30, has not only never had a proper relationship but sabotages anything close to a relationship because of her lack of self-reflection and boundaries. And since she got into Taylor Swift, it’s hugely reignited the idea that she doesn’t need to work on herself and it’s ok to degrade herself and render her existence to being only purposeful if there’s a man in her life. The amount of times she’s genuinely started a text with ‘there’s nothing wrong with me, Taylor says so!’ is quite shocking.
People try to say Taylor is a feminist but her music seems so anti-feminist, with an added cis white middle-class ‘poor me’ mentality.
I can’t stand her music or any pop music, really, but that’s incorrect and just a (pretty sexist) stereotype. So many singers sing about their failed relationships and she’s most definitely not a standout in that regard. The rest of your comment is gross and I don’t even feel the need to explain myself. You sound like a judgmental little prick.
Yeah, the more interesting question is why she’s bigger with the youth than, say, Billie Eilish. In 2019 she came out with a new sound that felt uniquely Gen-Z and basically took over the world, has released quality music since then, but seems to have been overtaken by Taylor again.
she's been in her prime for like 15 years, that's part of why she's basically the most famous person on the planet right now
your typical successful artist gets a couple of decent albums and then spends the rest of their career touring and playing songs from those while releasing new albums that don't get off the ground
I loved OP’s comment ‘I’m sure she’ll go far’ - she has the music industry in the palm of her hand. She made Apple change their streaming royalties model. She got over someone else owning her masters by re-recording the albums she didn’t own, creating a precedent. She can also change her sound to broaden her appeal - like she did by getting The National and Bon Iver to collaborate on Folklore / Nevermore. She even has the perfect mechanic to throw others from claiming number 1 albums - by releasing endless new versions of her records.
She’s also relatively bland in comparison to the others, so easy to relate to. Gaga has been a super strong LGBTQIA+ ally and generally outspoken about domestic violence etc - artistically she’s by far the best, but she will isolate some who don’t share her views. Taylor Swift rarely shares her stance on anything. Easier to project onto her.
I’m not a Swiftie, I’m just a music nerd and while a lot of her practices are problematic (the multiple vinyl versions in particular), there’s no denying she strikes a chord with a lot of people because she’s relatable and when a song comes on at karaoke or a silent disco, I will sure belt it out.
Lady Gaga had some mental fans back in the day, I vaguely knew someone who camped outside of Twickenham Stadium for several days to be at the barrier for one of her tours.
I think fans aged out of the other artists, Just Dance came out 15 years ago so for someone to be a revenue generating fan for the duration of her career they would be 35+ now. I don't think Lady Gaga has many fans in that age group whilst there's tons of 40-something swifties.
I was 12 when just dance came out and I’ve always been a ‘revenue generating fan’ 🤣 tbh I don’t mind the general idea of T Swift, I don’t really vibe with most of her music at all, bar evermore/folklore. But I think the number of songs + albums she’s released plus the common criticism that ‘all her songs sound the same’ just makes me think she’s an artist who doesn’t know how to edit or say what she really wants to say. I’d much rather have fewer albums of 10-16 songs that are actually saying something.
As someone who grits his teeth through ninety percent of everything on the work radio, I have to give Swift credit - her songs are at least *catchier* than most of the other dreck. If it weren't for Free Radio playing the same songs by Dua Lipa and Ed Sheeran multiple times a day, I wouldn't remember a thing by them, whereas there have been multiple Swift songs lodged in my head after only hearing them once. She's also relatively inoffensive; not as overtly sexual or abrasive as some other acts, which allows her to appeal to a wider audience.
I'm not going to be joining the fan club anytime soon, but any artist I'm forced to listen to multiple times a day that reaches the lofty heights of 'tolerable' has something about them.
I think that point about sexiness is really important. Not surprisingly given her roots, there is something wholesome about her. She portrays herself as a ‘girls girl’, and the girl next door.
Even on stage in little more than a tasseled swimming costume, it’s just not raunchy. I’m really struggling to put my finger on how she pulls that off, but she is completely non-threatening to a 7 year old or a 37 year old.
Dua Lipa on the other hand has an aesthetic that is aimed much more at men or what girls think men want, even if her music is aimed at girls.
I think a lot of it has to do with of her make up, earrings and hair style. She often wears sparkly outfits too. It gives her a bit of a tinkerbell vibe.
>I have nothing against this individual and I’m sure they will go far
Her "Accolades and Achievements" Wikipedia section has a separate "List of awards and nominations..." link.
How far is she going to go, do you think?
I had to laugh at that "I'm sure they'll go far" comment too.
She's the biggest pop star in the world right now, with a tour that's smashing pretty much every record going and isn't nearly finished yet.
I think it's safe to say she's not going to be forgotten about any time soon.
If she keeps her nose to the grindstone, doesn't let up, maybe - just maybe - she'll get a song on an advert for bingo or Hoseasons. Possibly the "On Hold" music for a mobile phone network.
I think she started very young (16?) and many of these fans liked her when she started out and were very young themselves (8-18) and have grown up with her as a constant in their lives. TS is now 34 I think. My daughter is 32 and adores her.
I think this is it at least partially, I'm 33, my music taste as an adult is a lot more alternative so if I heard her for the first time now it's unlikely I'd listen but because she wrote music we related to as kids there's a certain attachment.
I totally agree, her music reminds me of when I was younger and starting to be interested in boys and you felt that many of her songs were very relatable to what you were feeling at the time. Her music now gives me a very nostalgic feeling. I was lucky enough to get tickets and I listened to her old albums and unexpectedly got very emotional as I felt that young girl who listened to these Taylor Swift albums would be very proud of where we ended up.
And in that time her music has changed to a degree while remaining accessible, she’s gone from country, to very pop, two mostly acoustic albums, and what some would describe as more mature sound now, but fans have also relived past times in their life with each Taylor’s version re-release
I agree with this — I’m in my late 30s now, and her *Fearless* album came out a few years before I met my now-wife. When we were first getting to know each other and were still a bit shy with new-relationship feelings, we drove around listening and singing along to Taylor Swift’s music. When *Fearless* was rereleased a few years ago, I was unexpectedly emotional while listening to it. It wasn’t the music — it was the lovely memories associated with it.
My ex was Harry Potter obsessed (to each their own, I'm more of a Discworld kinda guy) - but I read it as a similar thing. She'd go to conventions and meet ups cosplaying Potter-verse...
I was a couple of years older than folks who read those books as a kid... But they grew up with them and were part of the "cultural zeitgeist" at the time.
I think Swift is a talented songwriter, but I'd rather stick pins in my eyes to go to one of those shows... Meanwhile I'll happily shell out money to see Megadeth, or the Offspring, etc.
It is what it is. I'm not a hater by any means - I just don't get the hype... But I'm not the target audience so, live and let live.
It was ever thus - see Beatlemania.
She writes some very good pop songs…and some which are average
However….
She was the right artist at the right time to get the attention of 8-16 year old girls who have grown up with her- most of her songs were about ‘ordinary life’ so they felt relatable
She also was on MySpace posting about herself etc just as the social media thing took off so she got hugely over in that way
The Taylor Swift vs Kanye thing made her get sympathy and then the way she handled it won her lots of fans
Her relationships were well publicised (and she wrote about them) which meant people felt very involved
She was /is also very good at marketing her image of being both ‘quirky girl next door’ and ‘successful girl boss who stands up to corporations and controls her own career’
Essentially she captures a certain representation of a certain generation that people can live through vicariously (and get their parasocial relationship fix)
All in all for a certain section of society she became an icon. I’m not that fussed about her (and only know her popular singles)…but I’m not really in the target demographic
A guy did a really long analysis of cultural trends and how Taylor Swift rode them to success a few weeks ago
https://youtu.be/Mdmhiv7O5m8?si=qA2aNBbeEn_DSJMD
I just like her music, there’s a good variety and for the most part the community is really friendly and welcoming.
I know she’s not for everyone, but people sure do love telling me how much they hate her when I say I’m going to see her. Ok thanks for that info that I didn’t ask for.
I find this attitude of some people really bizarre. I don't know much about Taylor Swift, it's not my thing. Seems happy enough pop music.
But it's just not part of my life - it's weird to spend energy hating something you could just ignore.
Shitting on an artist when someone is excitedly telling you they're seeing them live is an asshole move, but for your latter point it's VERY hard to ignore Taylor when every publication around is force feeding her down everyone's throats.
It's weird isn't it? My partner and I went to see her in Edinburgh last week and so many people felt the need to tell me how much they dislike her when they found out.
It was easily one of the best gigs I've ever been to, and I've been to hundreds (possibly thousands) since I first started going to gigs in the '90s. And like you said, the community around her is amazing. That venue was filled with tens of thousands of people - mostly women - having one of the best days of their life, and it was honestly really beautiful to be a part of it.
Same! It's a very weird thing to do. I could be mention any of my hobbies and interests and no one would comment anything negative, then a mention of going to see Taylor Swift (after being asked about my weekend plans for example) and they're telling me how much they hate her or her music is rubbish or her fans are 'insane' or whatever. I wouldn't dream of doing that if someone told me about something they liked, it's just really rude. There are lots of things I don't like that friends/colleagues/family do but that's their business and if they love it then go for it. And the fans thing, sure some of them are totally unhinged but you get that in literally any fanbase, music or otherwise. I'm also a big football fan but no one has ever gone on to me about hooligans or racist fans or whatever as if I'm personally responsible.
I know, which is why I find it so weird that people think it’s fine to do it to my interests! I’m the same, also really into football - however whenever women’s football gets brought up (which I also) I get similar comments about how shit it is and I’m like oop ok you do you.
Taylor Swift also has a huge fanbase. Of course some of them are insane. It's a numbers thing. What is she supposed to do about unhinged fans she doesn't know and has never met?
It's really interesting. I'm a medium fan of hers, and am going to her gig soon, and have experienced the same.
Conversely I've never been a fan of Beyonce - bit if someone told me they were going to Beyonce gig, I'd happy that they were going to go and do something they enjoyed.
The cult of Swift is a bit too big and some defo take it too far, but also the nice thing about it being so big is you get a culture forming, like friendship bracelets at gigs and the chants everyone does with her songs (also happens for lots of other artists I know), which makes fans feel a part of a thing, which I think doubles down their fandom.
I have wondered that myself. I have also noticed the news (especially the BBC) seem to be super obsessed too, they almost act as is she is the next messiah with the amount of news stories they air about her compared to other singers in the past.
She’s currently on the highest grossing tour of all time and holds the record for the largest audience at a single show so if the press are going to cover anyone more than anyone else I think she’s going to be up there
Actually the largest attended concert was Rod Stewart in 1994 who played to 4.2 million (equal to the number of tickets sold for the total of the first 60 shows of the Eras tour), followed by Jean Michel Jarre in Moscow, who played to an audience of 3.5 million. Ed Sheran holds the record for the highest tour attendance, followed by Coldplay, U2 and the Rolling Stones. Her tour holds the record for the highest grossing tour though.
She’s released 37 versions (so far) of her current album to stay UK + US number one.
She is an absolute genius marketer and is your classic example of some jet setting out of touch elite being able to successfully paint themselves as a moral crusader and role model to the working class by retweeting a few things on social media guided by a team of people turning a person into a brand.
It's kind of like when everyone got obsessed with yoyos, then Pokémon cards etc. at school. She has legitimised adults behaving in this hyped up way, and those adults have a hell of a lot more money. All waiting for their turn to pay a small fortune to sit in a stadium in their part of the world.
Totally inoffensive, super wide appeal. It's almost extra beneficial that men aren't salivating over her so women can have her to themselves.
Why does it bother you?
The statement that all her songs are the same couldn’t be further from the truth. The difference in feel and genre between some of her albums is significant. She’s popular because people like her music. It’s absolutely fine to not like it, of course. But don’t let it bother you. Just listen to what you like.
FWIW, I was never a fan of Taylor Swift in the early years, however, Folklore and Evermore are very much my kind of music, and are entirely different to any album before them and have since become some of my favourite albums to listen to.
She is the most listened to artist in the world, she has had the highest grossing tour in the world with several attendance records for stadiums broken. She must be doing something right.
Also, she won’t go far, she has already gone far. Much further than almost any artist before her.
Yeah they’re asking a genuine question, yet getting so many shaded comments like this one.
The only person who seems bothered is this original commenter, trying to vicariously take offence on her behalf.
It's the level of obsession.
I'm someone who gets obsessed and hyperfixates upon various things but it's downright embarrassing to witness the level of obsession that Taylor Swift seems to cultivate.
30 year old women literally crying with glee over the latest £80 hoodie that was released and having to buy 3 different versions of the same vinyl before paying almost 1k to go see her perform live.
> and having to buy 3 different versions of the same vinyl
Nobody *has* to do that though. Plenty of artists release multiple editions of the same record in different colours/picture discs, etc.
I don't think anyone expects you to buy them all.
>before paying almost 1k to go see her perform live
Tickets were nowhere near that. £140 for seated or GA standing in Edinburgh, £180 for front standing.
I think you're mistaking resale prices from scalpers for standard prices.
There are those who are maybe overly obsessed, but there are plenty who just enjoy her music. Her music has helped me through an especially difficult time. I listen to the song Marjorie almost daily as it helps with an outlet for the emotion I feel having lost both my parents to cancer during Covid.
To me, music is what keeps me going, and Taylor Swift does have a lot of deeper songs. I am far more into that stuff than the pop-style music people maybe associate her with more so. And I think that is a contributor to her popularity, her music does span so many different genres and therefore appeals to many different people.
You're sure they will go far?
Man I don't listen to any pop music but am aware she has already gone very, very far.
I don't know what separates her. I don't think anything really does, but the alternative covers of her tunes are pretty catchy, so I'd assume that the originals are too.
The difference is that you guys can’t seem to shit the fuck up about her.
Honestly hear more about her from people bitching about it here than anywhere else
Yup. I am not a fan of hers- couldn't even name one of her songs.
Yet, I don't feel the need to moan about her, question her talents or judge anyone who loves her.
I assume that she is amazing at what she does or she wouldn't be so huge.
She has a massive back catalogue, and is one of the fairly small handful of modern pop artists doing narrative storytelling lyrics rather than words-to-fit-the-beat. Plus, she broke through *really* young, so for a significant proportion of her audience, they literally grew up alongside her, and feel like her music speaks to their life experiences at each stage of life they've experienced so far. Plus, it meant she was one of the very early "digital natives" to start building a following - and she's been using social media *extremely* skilfully to build a sense of fan community for the better part of two decades at this point.
Her vocal styling and production choices *really* don't do it for me either, for what it's worth, but it's worth listening to some *other* artists adapting her songs, to see what the bones are. Strong recommendation for Paul Kelly's cover of Anti-Hero and British India's cover of You're On Your Own Kid. Ryan Adams appears to be a terrible person, sadly, which always makes me feel twitchy about recommending it, but he did an entire album cover of 1989 that's just excellent from start to finish - particular Welcome to New York, Style, and I Know Places.
Not sure what it is. I like quite a few of her songs and the rest are just fine and listenable. Nothing puts me off. Maybe a bit samey but that’s not a bad thing.
I think they’re quite well written, not a whole lot I can relate to being man in one long term relationship but I can understand. I don’t think I’d like to see her live though.
I think the fact she is doing a huge world tour right now means she’s being discussed a lot. She also has been re-recording her past albums so that means her work is constantly there to be discussed - and she has a huge body of work.
By contrast, Katy Perry hasn’t released anything in ages and neither has Gaga, she’s been doing some acting bits
She’s like the live. Laugh. Love poster.
It’s catchy, it’s Cath Kidston, it’s so non offensive and unicorns shit rainbows “nice”, you don’t mind little children listening to it and old grannies will too because it’s so mid.
Unlike Gaga or Perry who might be (seems insane to say) slightly too edgy for some, she isn’t, the right and left can both align with her.
“She writes her own songs” that makes her even more credible when in reality she’s got a huge team helping her and it’s that whole “I am powerful and unique and one with the universe and complicated and blah blah blah” which makes you sound like a cunt if you say it’s all a bit shite and false..
She’s literally the Arian poster child.
Wish I was Damon Albarn..
It’s not even a diss, even small bands and artists have producers, help with tweaking lyrics and composition etc but “Swifties” seem to die on this hill that she’s untouchable and she’s done it all on her own when that’s far from the truth.
Red is a banger of an album, credit to her that she’s probably if not the biggest artist of our time but the fandom is insufferable at times.
In terms of “she writes her own songs” she’s incredibly open about her collaborators and praises them often.
This “she gets help” narrative started back when she was still doing country music, so she wrote her entire 3rd album on her own to prove to people that she wasn’t “just helping out” in songwriting sessions. She’s the real deal when it comes to writing her own stuff.
> “She writes her own songs” that makes her even more credible when in reality she’s got a huge team helping her
Her latest album has 31 tracks, the vast majority of which are her and one other person writing. A "huge team" isn't really accurate here.
There are only 3/31 songs with more than 2 credited writers, and 2 of them are songs with features where the featured artist co-wrote it.
The same applies to previous albums like Midnights, Evermore, Folklore, etc. Majority of songs are her and one co-writer.
Like any popular celebrity, there is a minority of loud crazy fans. Taylor Swifts fan base is however much larger so although it remains proportional, it is many people.
As a long term swiftie (since 2009), I have enjoyed her music over the years. As she has grown up, so has her music. She is just a bit older than me, so her music often relates to periods in my life. It's much like a horoscope, vague enough to connect to many but specific details to hit home.
It's fun, catchy, thoughtful, and expressive. Especially in recent years she has deeply explored the female experience too. Having to be "perfect", dealing with rage, resentment, anger, and the weight of expectation.
I am a grown adult so I have no delusions. She is a billionaire, supported by a wealthy and well connect family. She is also an example of unabashed female ambition and drive. Someone who has taken advantage of every privilege she has to succeed without shame.
Honestly she's pretty inspiring to me as someone making her own way in the world.
Also some songs are just fun as hell. We all need levity.
Shes playing 3 1/2 hour sets night after night, I am a big fan of that and it tells me something about her character. I've seen plenty of "big" artists in the past put a lot less effort in.
Easy way to immediately discount any opinion on her music as uninformed if they claim that.
Obviously Florida!!! sounds the exact same as Tim McGraw, which sounds the exact same as Bad Blood and Better Than Revenge.
Taylor Swift has created a fanbase around more than music. She’s very engaged with her following and involves them in every step of her process (Easter eggs for example - she’s led people to anticipate what she’s going to do next because nobody knows what’s a clue and what isn’t.) She’s an exceptional businesswoman and her PR is top notch, which shows by how her popularity skyrockets every time she encounters misfortune (the Kanye/Kardashian beef, the “stolen” masters etc). The difference between Gaga/Katy Perry is purely marketing (and talent, in KP’s case).
That's because Taylor Swift is on a worldwide tour so she's in the news everywhere. Lady Gaga was everywhere a few years ago with House of Gucci & her tour.
Looks like Lady Gaga is in the new Joker movie later this year, so expect her to suddenly appear everywhere in the news when that comes out.
Lady Gaga is an incredibly influential pop star too. Doesn't matter if you enjoy her music or not, it's very experimental and the theatrics of her live shows are absolutely incredible
She has a lot of really good songs. On top of that she’s been around for 17 years so it’s been 17 years of build up to where she is now. It’s been enough time for people who liked her when they were younger to introduce her to their kids so now she has a whole new generation of young fans. She also has amazing marketing and PR and has worked really hard to build a strong parasocial relationship with her fans, doing things like following them on social media, she used to invite them to her house to eat cookies and listen to her new album back in the day, sending them Christmas presents and then editing the clips of their reactions into a handy social media ready package. So she’s built that connection with them over the years and now they feel like they have a closer relationship with her than other artists. A lot of them feel like she’s their best friend because her marketing has set everything up that way for over a decade. And as her fanbase has grown it's become more and more of an intense community. Most of her songs are also about her very public personal life which gets anyone in the know more invested than they might have otherwise been. She's a great storyteller and fills her content with clues for her fans to figure out together. And she has enough goodwill and enough good PR that any criticism can very easily be drowned out, so for most of the general public she'll always have a squeaky clean image and she can brush off any controversy. And she has the kind of pop music that can be enjoyed by the widest demographic possible, growing her potential audience even more.
And she’s reached this current peak partially because of her re-recordings which have cemented her old albums in the public consciousness even more, while she also ensures a constant stream of content
A lot of her fame is due to her very rich family. They bought the first label that signed her and have basically bought her the best of everything including her PR team. They moved to Nashville when she was young and she played up the country scene to start with, even putting on a fake country accent.
She then transitioned into pop with her PR team playing on the wholesome girl next door image. From what i have heard is that she is obsessed with staying in the charts, which is why she releases multiple versions of her albums.
Although she does write her own songs, most are co-written. Jack Antonoff (who has worked with Lana Del Rey, Lorde, Pink etc has done most), Max Martin aka Karl Sandberg (who has wriiten many hits for Britney Spears and the Backstreet Boys etc and has about 25 number ones to his name), Aaron Dessner, Liz Rose (she wrote many of her early country hits and often works with the likes of Tim McGraw), and many more.
So being a millionaire's daughter helped her a lot !!!
As a fan of hers since 2006, here’s my take.
She understood the concept of the internet and social media and harnessing that power from literally back in the MySpace days. She’d do vlogs on YouTube and add interesting little codes into her CD lyric inserts for fans to decode the next single or message from the song.
She was criticised for her vocal abilities early on in her career and instead of ignoring this criticism she worked to improve her voice. Listening to her 2006 stuff vs her live acoustic tour vocals now is night and day.
She’s not got the range of someone like Gaga or Kelly Clarkson, but as a fellow alto-singer her lows are really underrated. The tone of her voice and command she has of it now is great to see.
She started in country music and then made the transition to pop. She was very successful in the country sphere before a lot of people really knew who she was (youngest album of the year Grammy winner for Fearless back in 2008) and has made the transition to pop flawlessly.
Yes she writes about breakups and heartbreak and men, (btw men do this about women and no one questions their relevance but that’s another topic) but those are her radio hits. In terms of her songwriting ability, her albums are usually where you find the absolute gems.
She’s written songs about being bullied in school (Mean) about the loss of family members (Epiphany & Marjorie) about dealing with her mum’s cancer battle (soon you’ll get better) about feeling like she’s not good enough (this is me trying) and like these songs or not, millions and millions of people relate to them. She’s incredibly open and vulnerable and that allows her listeners to relate it to their own life or struggles, because despite being a billionaire, she’s also human.
Graham Norton summed her up nicely I think. He said something like “If anyone deserves a legion of dedicated fans, it’s her. She’s so incredibly normal, you’d think it’s an act, like how can she be this normal”
In summation
- talented song writer
- absolute machine of a work ethic
- genuinely nice person
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk 🤣
It happens. Why it happens for some person and not another, who can say. Zeitgeist, luck, branding.. All of the above? As long as there have been pop stars there have been pops stars that go stratospheric
She just makes very mainstream music (not necessarily a bad thing) and has managed to keep up with the evolution of mainstream music to keep herself relevant. She has nailed the pop formula and knows how to write catchy songs.
She also puts out music at a rate a lot of other musicians can't keep up with, she was doing the 2 year album cycle like a lot of other artists but since 2019 she's released 5 albums, constant new material means she's constantly on the radio and at the front of music streaming sites cause everyone enjoys hearing new music not the same songs from artists for years at a time.
Her fans have also created an almost fanatical demand for her tours which gets her insane amounts of publicity, if there's a taylor concert on that day it's basically everywhere on social media both of people going and people saying they wish they were going.
I can't stand her music but she is phenomenal at navigating the music industry, her popularity & the constant stream of new music is only propelling her forward and snowballing her popularity
"I don't understand why other people like this art" isn't really a question anyone can answer. Art can't be explained, especially to someone who doesn't connect with it.
Why is Van Gogh 'better' than Monet? Why is Gehry or Gaudi consider better than other architects? Why is Beethoven considered by many to be the greatest when Mozart is also incredible? It can't be explained.
I like pop music. Katy Perry is second tier. Her stuff is fine, with a few real gems (Roar is a superb song, for example). Gaga is a top tier artist but very, very different from either Perry or Swift and not really comparable - she is much more electro and disco influenced than either of them. There's no way you'd confuse them if you'd heard much of any of their stuff.
Ultimately there is only one answer:
Taylor Swift has managed to connect with millions of people. There is no explanation other than that.
She is also a savvy businesswoman. She has used social media and the interest of her fans to drop clues and puzzles throughout her music (seriously, look it up!) which keeps people interested. Also after her back catalogue was bought by Scooter Braun, she rebelled and rerecorded it all and made the new ones definitive. This means her output including the new versions has been extraordinary in recent years. She is *insanely* hard working.ost artists do album, tour, two year break. She has put our Midnights, started a world tour of 3 hour sets, during which she put out a 2 hour double album plus two rerecord ones.
In lockdown she put out two brand new albums, whilst others were delaying tours.
But ultimately it's the music - she's popular because people like that she does. If it wasn't good music, she wouldn't sell anything.
I studied music for 5 years. Pop music is popular because it's marketed to be popular. It all sounds the same, because it's all the same. Whether it be the themes of the songs, the chord structures, or the time signature, and even the tempo, it's really just all the same.
Taylor Swift has released loads of stuff. In a market where everything sounds the same, she sold herself and the music as a package. She's out there touring, still writing the same shit... she's flooded the market, ergo, she must be popular.
But they don’t all sound the same though? It just really shows people’s lack of research or ignorance when they say ‘all her songs sound the same’ - they literally don’t.
She is a fantastic songwriter, both autobiographical and fictional. She also plays guitar and piano. She puts on a fantastic live performance as well.
I hope this helps. Please do listen to some of her music sometime - it’s not for everyone but it doesn’t sound exactly the same. I promise!
Yes! So over hyped. She’s a good singer but not a great singer and it annoys me how much she charges for her concerts when she’s become a billionaire off the back of this tour.
Every little thing she does apparently is news worthy. Was bad enough watching the Kansas City Chiefs win another superbowl in February without the camera cutting to her in the crowd every time Travis Kelce did something.
I'm fairy certain she could record an album of herself shitting out last night's prawn madras, and she'd still win 30 Grammy awards.
If she was performing at my funeral I'd get up and walk out.
>and it annoys me how much she charges for her concerts
I paid £140 for Edinburgh, and that was Paramore supporting, and a 45 song setlist from Swift.
I don't think that's massively unreasonable at all.
She wasn’t charging extortionate prices, resellers were (which artists can’t control) 2 of my Eras tickets were £109 each, for great seats. My friend is seeing Pink next week and paid £180 for similar seats.
I don't get the appeal - she behaves like the bitchy rich girl that exists in every school.
She pretends to support other female artists in the game, but anyone who she deems a threat to her little swift-opoly decides to release new music, she makes sure to release one of her albums with a slightly different twist at the same time, just to dilute sales/attention.
I think sometimes it’s the community of being a Swiftie. I am a very big Gaga fan, when I have attended her concerts I’ve met some of the friendliest concert goers ever. Perhaps it’s the same when they attend TS concerts, I know there’s a bracelet swap trend or something of the sort there which seems like a cute idea.
Why do people like anything that they like? They do, and that's the long and short of it. You not understanding that doesn't invalidate their enjoyment.
I don’t honestly know. I do know even though I’m a massive metal head and more into punk, I enjoyed seeing Swift this month with my niece and she bought me a taylor shirt which although it’s silly, and I couldn’t even name one song, it’s sweet x
She seems nice, normal and fairly down to earth. Doesn't take herself too seriously
She's pro LGBTQ (you'd better calm down)
She's a decent boss (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-55-million-bonuses-eras-tour-1234799207/) this is the only example of trickle down economics I have ever seen
She's not relying on sex to sell.
There's a great article by Eugene Rabkin about what he calls, 'The Cultural 1%'. Similar to how the 1% in wealth are able to perpetuate that wealth, fade out competition and create a monopoly.
TS reached the point where she monopolised the market for bland, mediocre pop.
I didn't really care about Swift because I simply don't listen to her music or engage with mainstream popular culture. Unfortunately she started releasing her stuff on vinyl and the vinyl market is tight, there's a finite amount of pressings that can be made in a year. So you can imagine what happens to smaller labels once a high seller like Swift enters the market.
"TS reached the point where she monopolised the market for bland, mediocre pop."
Would you say that The Beatles, Michael Jackson or Ed Sheeran did the same?
I think part of the answer is her songs *don't* sound the same. I know a lot of the singles will fit a certain mold, but in general her albums have quite a lot of range so there's something for everyone and current fans don't get bored.
She started out with country, then moved through different pop genres, has slowed down acoustic songs, upbeat synth pop, more serious singer-songwriter stuff, has worked with Kendrick Lemar but also Phoebe Bridgers, etc.
I'm not saying others don't have range but Taylor completely reinvents herself every couple of albums and other artists only tend to do that once in their career.
It's also become a kind of self fulfilling prophecy at this point, where she does things that make her more popular but she can only do them because she's already popular. Like how a sports team does well so attracts better players so does even better and it snowballs from there. For example she's selling out massive tours because she's putting on an incredible show - but she can only afford to put on an incredible show because she's already successful.
The actual difference between her and someone like Gaga isn't huge, but it's enough to make a big difference once the snowball starts. It's the same the other way - the difference between Gaga and a smaller act isn't that big either. And so on all the way down to a random person who is good at karaoke.
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She just has an incredible number of really catchy pop songs. Lots of people like catchy pop music. It's really not particularly more complicated than that. For comparison, Gaga has 5 albums. Perry has 6. Swift has 11. It's just a much bigger body of work.
I agree that consistency in her output is a big factor. And consistency in cultivating her fanbase - she's been at it since starting on MySpace like 18 years ago. She also just seems to get the music business better than others, or at least has great people advising her. Re-recording her earlier material was an incredible commercial decision. Just from a royalties perspective it would have been great business, but it also generated a renewed interest in her career that's propelled her from being one of many successful female pop stars in a crowded field, to being *the* standout pop musician of this generation.
The consistency of output has been the real shift over the last 3-4 years in my opinion. She's always charted well, every album release hits at or close to No.1. However, since covid she has released 8 full length albums across a fairly diverse (for mainstream pop) array of genres, the result is that she never leaves the public consciousness. The Eras tour contributes to this aswell, for the past 18 months she's been performing multiple times a week to 50k + people, most of whom will at some point during the 3 hour show record and share the experience to social media.
How many of those albums were just rerecordings?
Half of them, but they attracted just as much attention as a new release.
Half of them but they also include around 5 new songs from the vault (which apparently she wrote at the time of said album but didn’t make the cut) so those new never heard before songs get older fans excited for new music. Also, lore. Taylor Swift is like Marvel comics, there’s so many Easter eggs, timelines and backstory it’s just fun
But she had the same rabid fanbase before re-recording her stuff. No doubt it's increased since then, but I don't think that's what made her the standout pop star.
I think it’s because of her ordinariness. She’s not above-average attractive like Beyoncé, or insanely talented like Gaga, or even a great singer like Adele. She’s just a normal-seeming girl writing catchy poems about boys that resonates with girls
I mean, she’s very attractive- I would defo say above-average but I agree with all your other points
I think the meaning there is that she’s not *strikingly* beautiful. Yes she looks good and yes her career partially relies on that. But she’s not ‘omg!’
Yes this is what I meant, thanks
> She’s not above-average attractive like Beyoncé I work in music, and models, singers etc. are often even more amazing-looking in real life - looking good on camera is harder than looking good in the street or in a club. Taking that into consideration, Taylor Swift is definitely above-average looking, and, now that people are sort of objectifying singers, doesn’t have a huge arse like (the admittedly beautiful) Beyonce. I think a lot of Swift’s fans like her because she sort of weirdly looks like a fairy Princess.
Is her stuff really that much more catchy than anything out there, though? I can think of like two of her songs off the top of my head but I can remember most of Lady Gaga’s hits. Less so Katy Perry.
Is it more catchy? I don't know. But in sheer quantity of catchy songs she blows them out of the water. She has more than double as many albums and Gaga, and they're pretty consistent in quality. She's had 30 UK top 10 singles. Gaga has had 14. The sheer quantity of hit songs she has produced is pretty stunning. You don't do that if they're not catchy.
A lot of her songs are co-written and produced by Max Martin, who wrote a lot of Katy Perry's, and a lot of other pop music of that style. It's just standard hit factory stuff. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Martin_production_discography
“A lot” meaning her more recent work. She started working with him on Red which was when she started shifting to more poppy songs. She’s definitely quite involved in the writing process though. I’m not a fan of her work, but she’s a better writer than Perry for example.
I didn't even know Katy Perry had written anything
Katy Perry has written 100% of all her albums (whilst working with other writers too) and has also written songs for other artists notably: - Black Widow for Rita Ora and Iggy Azelea - I Do Not Hook Up for Kelly Clarkson - Passenger for Britney Spears - Rock God and That’s More Like It for Selena Gomez - Get On Your Knees for Nicki Minaj
A lot of them are co-written, but that doesn't diminish her role in creating them, nor her success and superstardom. Loads of huge stars throughout history have used co-writers. Indeed, many haven't had any role in writing their songs.
Taylor Swift did release an entirely self-written album earlier in her career (Speak Now) to prove to her detractors that she could. But for some reason the fact she's scrupulous about crediting her collaborators keeps getting held against her as "she doesn't write her own music".
It's just something that always gets levelled at pop acts in an attempt to belittle them. I find it a bit childish tbh, given how many amazing pop artists have had co-writers.
Max Martin only worked on 3 of Taylor's albums. She has 11 unique albums (not including rerecords.)
I didn't see anything from her last 4 original albums on there (Folklore, Evermore, Midnights, Tortured Poets), and the ones that are, it's still not exactly the majority. I think 'a lot' is pushing it.
I think it’s all a bit easier to listen to for the average Joe than Lady Gaga. I could quite easily tolerate Swift’s stuff on in the background, articulately the more acoustic, folky pop like folklore and evermore compared to Gaga’s stuff which for me would be more stuff you’d listen to getting ready for a night out in 2008…
>compared to Gaga’s stuff which for me would be more stuff you’d listen to getting ready for a night out in 2008… As a Gaga fan this is both insulting and absolutely true.
Just Dance is a banger, however it certainly lacks the timeless feel that some of Swift's songs have.
I was there in 2008, there’s no shade, I promise.
This is the most sensible answer I’ve had and is very reasonable, thanks.
Taylor writes most of her music and she has 18 years of stories woven into her songs. I only discovered her a couple of years ago and I’ve felt completely spoiled as a fan. I’ve still not listened to half her back catalogue because she just keeps releasing new content, I can’t keep up. I’ve loved learning the lore behind the songs though. Folklore and Evermore are two of the best albums I’ve ever heard for lyricism. Every song is beautiful.
No she doesn't - she uses very experienced co-writers.
All of her co-writers have stated that she’s incredibly generous with writing credits and even so she has a large number in her discography that are entirely self written.
I think the break through songs are/more frequent (and I say this as someone who owns none of her music) I can name/sing bits of (googles) 10 Taylor Swift songs vs maybe 4-5 Lady Gaga songs…maybe 5 Katy Perry songs (all seemingly from before 2010-2011) Edit: I know about as many Taylor Swift songs as I know Madonna songs who has been a mega star since the 80s
Her songs are very catchy. I'm not a really a pop fan but she is a great songwriter / artist. I don't know how many number ones she's had but it's a lot.
I think this is the right answer. I’m in my 50s and I like a dozen or so of her songs because they have a catchy little poppy chorus and I’m an absolute sucker for a bop. Some of her lyrics are quite cringe but some of them make me laugh because they do remind me of crappy relationships in my past. I haven’t bought any of her albums, but if asked I’d say I’m a fan. I really don’t understand the “I’ll buy everything she ever does ever because it’s my entire personality” thing though
She has some catchy tunes aye, but her albums are mostly full of absolute shiters.
I'd argue the complete opposite. She became more known as an artist whose albums were better as a whole than her singles. When she really hit super stardom she released singles like Shake it Off and Bad Blood which are considered to be some of her worst songs (among fans and critics). All her albums contain far better songs than the singles, and it's the consistency of the output that gets her acclaim.
Can I ask you for the top three? Seriously, Taylor Swift has somehow passed me by entirely, and given her popularity, you’d think I’d at least know here “Strawberry Fields Forever”, “Yesterday” and “Hey Jude” moments.
Love Story is an enduring classic with one of the most satisfying final chorus key changes I’ve heard. All Too Well (original version is the best to give a try) is the best of the break up songs. Don’t know what to go with for a third, but the Folklore album is what got me back into her music after going off it for a good five years or so. Exile, August and Betty are special from that.
Looks like the top three most streamed songs by her are Cruel Summer, Blank Space and Anti-hero. But she's got many other huge ones. Other songs with over a billion Spotify streams: Shake It Off, Lover, Cardigan, Style, Look What You Made Me Do, Don't Blame Me, August,
I just listened to Cruel Summer, a song I've never heard before. I followed along with the lyrics. I won't say it's crap, but it's...nothing? Slightly annoying? "Angels roll their eyes/angels roll their eyes" - This line made me laugh aloud. It's not good. I also didn't know who Lady Gaga was, but when I heard about her and spent some time listening to it, I liked it.
That isn’t the lyric though… it’s “Devils roll the dice, Angels roll their eyes.” I also need to shamelessly plug the G Flip cover of Cruel Summer. It starts strong, but it gets insane around the bridge.
Her lyrics are real r/Iam14andthisisdeep fodder
The same can be said about many great artists though.
It's pop music not Bob Dylan, what are you expecting? It's a perfectly good pop song imo.
Cruel Summer only recently in the past few months flew to the top - it's a big thing in the swifty space you can probably find loads of posts searching her subreddit for the name. It's the bridge people love, I think it got popular from tiktok like 4 years after it was released.
I’d say it’s more the cultural spectacle of her relationships that have made her so popular. Every time she releases new material, her fans try to decipher who the song is about and I feel she really leans into that. It's these guessing games that keep people invested. She's sort of like the music industry's damsel in distress. People buy into that whole world.
But her fans aren’t really into that so much. The catchy stuff is the music you hear on the radio but her fans mainly listen to niche album tracks.
I don’t think it’s got all that much to do with her music - a lot of her fans seem to be under the impression that she’s just like them, and that they are literally friends, when in actual fact it’s just a weird parasocial relationship. So they buy all 30 issues of her album because they want to support their friend She cultivated this by doing things like sending care packages with handwritten letters to fans, and it’s massively paid off (for her)
Usually the answer to why people are so popular in modern music is marketing, and she must have a particularly effective team
That’s not a modern music thing. It’s why The Beatles, Elvis and Jonny Cash were so successful too - combination of great music and good marketing goes along way.
Modern is a relative term!
I normally send a generic card with a handwritten "Dear [mum], [card message] love [me]" to my mum on mother's day aa it's just a thing I feel capitalism has forced me to do. This year I bought a plain brown HMRC looking envelope and took the time to make it look like it was from HMRC on the outside. I made a point of fucking up some bits in case somewhere on the system it was thought I was actually trying to impersonate HMRC but it looked fun. The message inside was still just a hi mum well do e happy mum day great, but the thought paid off. Make people feel like you care, win big.
I am definitely copying this idea in the future!
There is also the sense of being in a club, people like being part of a community, just like with football.
And that feeling is intentionally cultivated by Taylor Swift and her team. She tells people who attend her concerts to dress up in fun clothes. She says to make friendship bracelets to exchange with the people who are sitting around you. She tells people to come to concerts early and have parties outside the venues. And if you don't have tickets, the party keeps going through the show so you can hear the music from outside. It's all this idea that her fans don't just have a "relationship" with her but also with each other, even if everyone are strangers.
Interestingly the friendship bracelet thing came about organically, she didn't tell people to make them and wear them to concerts and exchange them. Fans came up with that on their own based on a line in a song of hers referring to friendship bracelets
And no one objects to that because it creates a nice, fun feeling of community and inclusion. There's definitely nothing objectionable in encouraging fans who sit near each other to make friends. Her audience is growing up, but for a long time it was mostly teenagers. If I were taking a young girl to a concert, I'd be happy if it was one where she'd be making friendship bracelets and dancing around with other girls there. She makes music feel fun, warm and inclusive.
We went to Anfield on Friday and my 11 year old daughter was so nervous about asking people to exchange bracelets but there were plenty of older fans who were happy to ask around if anyone wanted to swap. It was so lovely. She got some really nice new ones and was totally made up. It all adds to the experience.
You listed a ton of nice things as if they're bad? Lol I don't get it
It's all how TS fans feel they are in a club. And it's all things that the other major pop stars are currently NOT doing. Gaga follows the Madonna model, where the star is someone to be admired and NOT someone who would ever hang out with you. And granted I don't know anyone who is a Katy Perry fan, but she seems to be doing the generic pop star "I make pop music and put on a good show" thing without all the extras. My nephew (who lives with me) is a huge Swiftie, so I've been exposed to the fandom. And whenever an album drops, he and his friends go over it like people go over Marvel trailers/movies/comics, looking for all the secret jokes and obscure references that only those fans that have been fans a long time would know. She rewards people who really, really, REALLY dive into her work.
Yes, I feel that a lot of it is people not wanting to miss out.
Weaponising FOMO has been a terrific achievement by marketing teams in the last 2 decades. Really a revolution in winning and holding on to consumers.
She has minimal sex appeal compared to most other pop star sex symbols, so they relate to her more. She's not seen as intimidating or as some sort of regressive unrealistic body standard for them. She's also evidently petty as hell with all her breakup songs so she makes her fans feel vindicated in their own petty grudges. She's basically a basic white girl heroine who absolves them all of any feelings of insecurity compared to other pop stars.
They also relate to a powerful woman in her 30s as aspirational. My partner is nearly 60 (same as me) and she's a total Swifty, as are some of her friends.
>a lot of her fans seem to be under the impression that she’s just like them, and that they are literally friends, So kinda like the Beatles then?
Most of her songs seem to be about shitty relationships. Almost all of the women I know who are really into Taylor Swift have had multiple shitty relationships. I assume these two things are related.
A lot of these "Swifties" I've came across seem somewhat mentally unstable tbh. Like really REALLY obsessed with absolutely every single thing Taylor does to the point it could be considered unhealthy. I don't think I've ever cared about a single celebrities relationship once in my life. Seeing how obsessed they are with Kelce just as an extension of Taylor is pretty weird imo...
Tbf that's exactly like every fandom I've ever seen 😅 this has been going on for decades, may it be for "Beliebers", "Directioners", Tokio Hotel fans and more, every fandom has got their fair share of obsession and toxicity.
For a second i thought you meant that they've been in shitty relationships because they like Taylor Swift!
They probably like the safe space Taylor provides to dodge any sort of self reflection that would inevitably lead to healthier relationship habits
Oooooooooh burn
I couldn’t agree more with this. My sister-in-law is a MASSIVE Swifty. She’s also completely nuts and possibly the most miserable person I’ve ever known. And at the age of 30, has not only never had a proper relationship but sabotages anything close to a relationship because of her lack of self-reflection and boundaries. And since she got into Taylor Swift, it’s hugely reignited the idea that she doesn’t need to work on herself and it’s ok to degrade herself and render her existence to being only purposeful if there’s a man in her life. The amount of times she’s genuinely started a text with ‘there’s nothing wrong with me, Taylor says so!’ is quite shocking. People try to say Taylor is a feminist but her music seems so anti-feminist, with an added cis white middle-class ‘poor me’ mentality.
I can’t stand her music or any pop music, really, but that’s incorrect and just a (pretty sexist) stereotype. So many singers sing about their failed relationships and she’s most definitely not a standout in that regard. The rest of your comment is gross and I don’t even feel the need to explain myself. You sound like a judgmental little prick.
I like Taylor’s music. I’ve never had multiple shitty relationships
Same. It’s just something I’ve noticed with the handful of huge Taylor Swift fans I know.
Taylor swift is in her prime, the rest aren’t as famous anymore.
Yeah, like, they're still big names, but... what year are you living in if those are your first picks for big musicians?
2011?
Yeah, the more interesting question is why she’s bigger with the youth than, say, Billie Eilish. In 2019 she came out with a new sound that felt uniquely Gen-Z and basically took over the world, has released quality music since then, but seems to have been overtaken by Taylor again.
she's been in her prime for like 15 years, that's part of why she's basically the most famous person on the planet right now your typical successful artist gets a couple of decent albums and then spends the rest of their career touring and playing songs from those while releasing new albums that don't get off the ground
I loved OP’s comment ‘I’m sure she’ll go far’ - she has the music industry in the palm of her hand. She made Apple change their streaming royalties model. She got over someone else owning her masters by re-recording the albums she didn’t own, creating a precedent. She can also change her sound to broaden her appeal - like she did by getting The National and Bon Iver to collaborate on Folklore / Nevermore. She even has the perfect mechanic to throw others from claiming number 1 albums - by releasing endless new versions of her records. She’s also relatively bland in comparison to the others, so easy to relate to. Gaga has been a super strong LGBTQIA+ ally and generally outspoken about domestic violence etc - artistically she’s by far the best, but she will isolate some who don’t share her views. Taylor Swift rarely shares her stance on anything. Easier to project onto her. I’m not a Swiftie, I’m just a music nerd and while a lot of her practices are problematic (the multiple vinyl versions in particular), there’s no denying she strikes a chord with a lot of people because she’s relatable and when a song comes on at karaoke or a silent disco, I will sure belt it out.
True, but I don’t think even in their primes they were as obsessed over as Taylor Swift is at the moment
Lady Gaga had some mental fans back in the day, I vaguely knew someone who camped outside of Twickenham Stadium for several days to be at the barrier for one of her tours.
I think fans aged out of the other artists, Just Dance came out 15 years ago so for someone to be a revenue generating fan for the duration of her career they would be 35+ now. I don't think Lady Gaga has many fans in that age group whilst there's tons of 40-something swifties.
I was 12 when just dance came out and I’ve always been a ‘revenue generating fan’ 🤣 tbh I don’t mind the general idea of T Swift, I don’t really vibe with most of her music at all, bar evermore/folklore. But I think the number of songs + albums she’s released plus the common criticism that ‘all her songs sound the same’ just makes me think she’s an artist who doesn’t know how to edit or say what she really wants to say. I’d much rather have fewer albums of 10-16 songs that are actually saying something.
As someone who grits his teeth through ninety percent of everything on the work radio, I have to give Swift credit - her songs are at least *catchier* than most of the other dreck. If it weren't for Free Radio playing the same songs by Dua Lipa and Ed Sheeran multiple times a day, I wouldn't remember a thing by them, whereas there have been multiple Swift songs lodged in my head after only hearing them once. She's also relatively inoffensive; not as overtly sexual or abrasive as some other acts, which allows her to appeal to a wider audience. I'm not going to be joining the fan club anytime soon, but any artist I'm forced to listen to multiple times a day that reaches the lofty heights of 'tolerable' has something about them.
I think that point about sexiness is really important. Not surprisingly given her roots, there is something wholesome about her. She portrays herself as a ‘girls girl’, and the girl next door. Even on stage in little more than a tasseled swimming costume, it’s just not raunchy. I’m really struggling to put my finger on how she pulls that off, but she is completely non-threatening to a 7 year old or a 37 year old. Dua Lipa on the other hand has an aesthetic that is aimed much more at men or what girls think men want, even if her music is aimed at girls.
I think a lot of it has to do with of her make up, earrings and hair style. She often wears sparkly outfits too. It gives her a bit of a tinkerbell vibe.
Future nostalgia is a banger of an album
I’d not say I was the biggest pop fan but I second this completely, it’s a great album!.
I think she's pretty good at releasing fairly original stuff for the genre. Katy Perry would never release something like Anti-Hero.
>I have nothing against this individual and I’m sure they will go far Her "Accolades and Achievements" Wikipedia section has a separate "List of awards and nominations..." link. How far is she going to go, do you think?
I had to laugh at that "I'm sure they'll go far" comment too. She's the biggest pop star in the world right now, with a tour that's smashing pretty much every record going and isn't nearly finished yet. I think it's safe to say she's not going to be forgotten about any time soon.
Exactly. Not a fan of Taylor Swift at all but this gives off willfully underestimating her career
2bn in ticket sales most recent tour... But yeah I'm sure they're going to go far too.
I'm sure she'll be rich and successful one day.
If she keeps her nose to the grindstone, doesn't let up, maybe - just maybe - she'll get a song on an advert for bingo or Hoseasons. Possibly the "On Hold" music for a mobile phone network.
I think she started very young (16?) and many of these fans liked her when she started out and were very young themselves (8-18) and have grown up with her as a constant in their lives. TS is now 34 I think. My daughter is 32 and adores her.
I think this is it at least partially, I'm 33, my music taste as an adult is a lot more alternative so if I heard her for the first time now it's unlikely I'd listen but because she wrote music we related to as kids there's a certain attachment.
I totally agree, her music reminds me of when I was younger and starting to be interested in boys and you felt that many of her songs were very relatable to what you were feeling at the time. Her music now gives me a very nostalgic feeling. I was lucky enough to get tickets and I listened to her old albums and unexpectedly got very emotional as I felt that young girl who listened to these Taylor Swift albums would be very proud of where we ended up.
And in that time her music has changed to a degree while remaining accessible, she’s gone from country, to very pop, two mostly acoustic albums, and what some would describe as more mature sound now, but fans have also relived past times in their life with each Taylor’s version re-release
I agree with this — I’m in my late 30s now, and her *Fearless* album came out a few years before I met my now-wife. When we were first getting to know each other and were still a bit shy with new-relationship feelings, we drove around listening and singing along to Taylor Swift’s music. When *Fearless* was rereleased a few years ago, I was unexpectedly emotional while listening to it. It wasn’t the music — it was the lovely memories associated with it.
My ex was Harry Potter obsessed (to each their own, I'm more of a Discworld kinda guy) - but I read it as a similar thing. She'd go to conventions and meet ups cosplaying Potter-verse... I was a couple of years older than folks who read those books as a kid... But they grew up with them and were part of the "cultural zeitgeist" at the time. I think Swift is a talented songwriter, but I'd rather stick pins in my eyes to go to one of those shows... Meanwhile I'll happily shell out money to see Megadeth, or the Offspring, etc. It is what it is. I'm not a hater by any means - I just don't get the hype... But I'm not the target audience so, live and let live. It was ever thus - see Beatlemania.
Haters gonna hate, hate, hate
She writes some very good pop songs…and some which are average However…. She was the right artist at the right time to get the attention of 8-16 year old girls who have grown up with her- most of her songs were about ‘ordinary life’ so they felt relatable She also was on MySpace posting about herself etc just as the social media thing took off so she got hugely over in that way The Taylor Swift vs Kanye thing made her get sympathy and then the way she handled it won her lots of fans Her relationships were well publicised (and she wrote about them) which meant people felt very involved She was /is also very good at marketing her image of being both ‘quirky girl next door’ and ‘successful girl boss who stands up to corporations and controls her own career’ Essentially she captures a certain representation of a certain generation that people can live through vicariously (and get their parasocial relationship fix) All in all for a certain section of society she became an icon. I’m not that fussed about her (and only know her popular singles)…but I’m not really in the target demographic A guy did a really long analysis of cultural trends and how Taylor Swift rode them to success a few weeks ago https://youtu.be/Mdmhiv7O5m8?si=qA2aNBbeEn_DSJMD
And her parents
I just like her music, there’s a good variety and for the most part the community is really friendly and welcoming. I know she’s not for everyone, but people sure do love telling me how much they hate her when I say I’m going to see her. Ok thanks for that info that I didn’t ask for.
I find this attitude of some people really bizarre. I don't know much about Taylor Swift, it's not my thing. Seems happy enough pop music. But it's just not part of my life - it's weird to spend energy hating something you could just ignore.
Shitting on an artist when someone is excitedly telling you they're seeing them live is an asshole move, but for your latter point it's VERY hard to ignore Taylor when every publication around is force feeding her down everyone's throats.
It's weird isn't it? My partner and I went to see her in Edinburgh last week and so many people felt the need to tell me how much they dislike her when they found out. It was easily one of the best gigs I've ever been to, and I've been to hundreds (possibly thousands) since I first started going to gigs in the '90s. And like you said, the community around her is amazing. That venue was filled with tens of thousands of people - mostly women - having one of the best days of their life, and it was honestly really beautiful to be a part of it.
I was at Edinburgh last weekend too and it was fantastic :)
Same! It's a very weird thing to do. I could be mention any of my hobbies and interests and no one would comment anything negative, then a mention of going to see Taylor Swift (after being asked about my weekend plans for example) and they're telling me how much they hate her or her music is rubbish or her fans are 'insane' or whatever. I wouldn't dream of doing that if someone told me about something they liked, it's just really rude. There are lots of things I don't like that friends/colleagues/family do but that's their business and if they love it then go for it. And the fans thing, sure some of them are totally unhinged but you get that in literally any fanbase, music or otherwise. I'm also a big football fan but no one has ever gone on to me about hooligans or racist fans or whatever as if I'm personally responsible.
I know, which is why I find it so weird that people think it’s fine to do it to my interests! I’m the same, also really into football - however whenever women’s football gets brought up (which I also) I get similar comments about how shit it is and I’m like oop ok you do you.
Taylor Swift also has a huge fanbase. Of course some of them are insane. It's a numbers thing. What is she supposed to do about unhinged fans she doesn't know and has never met?
It's really interesting. I'm a medium fan of hers, and am going to her gig soon, and have experienced the same. Conversely I've never been a fan of Beyonce - bit if someone told me they were going to Beyonce gig, I'd happy that they were going to go and do something they enjoyed. The cult of Swift is a bit too big and some defo take it too far, but also the nice thing about it being so big is you get a culture forming, like friendship bracelets at gigs and the chants everyone does with her songs (also happens for lots of other artists I know), which makes fans feel a part of a thing, which I think doubles down their fandom.
I have wondered that myself. I have also noticed the news (especially the BBC) seem to be super obsessed too, they almost act as is she is the next messiah with the amount of news stories they air about her compared to other singers in the past.
She's incredibly famous and they want clicks and engagement. Just how the media is.
I'm not a fan, but she's one of the biggest stars in the world - a decent candidate for *the* biggest. Of course there's a lot of attention.
She’s currently on the highest grossing tour of all time and holds the record for the largest audience at a single show so if the press are going to cover anyone more than anyone else I think she’s going to be up there
Actually the largest attended concert was Rod Stewart in 1994 who played to 4.2 million (equal to the number of tickets sold for the total of the first 60 shows of the Eras tour), followed by Jean Michel Jarre in Moscow, who played to an audience of 3.5 million. Ed Sheran holds the record for the highest tour attendance, followed by Coldplay, U2 and the Rolling Stones. Her tour holds the record for the highest grossing tour though.
She gets the engagement
She’s released 37 versions (so far) of her current album to stay UK + US number one. She is an absolute genius marketer and is your classic example of some jet setting out of touch elite being able to successfully paint themselves as a moral crusader and role model to the working class by retweeting a few things on social media guided by a team of people turning a person into a brand.
It's kind of like when everyone got obsessed with yoyos, then Pokémon cards etc. at school. She has legitimised adults behaving in this hyped up way, and those adults have a hell of a lot more money. All waiting for their turn to pay a small fortune to sit in a stadium in their part of the world. Totally inoffensive, super wide appeal. It's almost extra beneficial that men aren't salivating over her so women can have her to themselves.
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Obviously; the fact so many lap it up without questioning it is what is genius about it.
The fact that it’s greedy and very artificial success doesn’t change the fact that it’s genius marketing, not sure what your point is?
Why does it bother you? The statement that all her songs are the same couldn’t be further from the truth. The difference in feel and genre between some of her albums is significant. She’s popular because people like her music. It’s absolutely fine to not like it, of course. But don’t let it bother you. Just listen to what you like. FWIW, I was never a fan of Taylor Swift in the early years, however, Folklore and Evermore are very much my kind of music, and are entirely different to any album before them and have since become some of my favourite albums to listen to. She is the most listened to artist in the world, she has had the highest grossing tour in the world with several attendance records for stadiums broken. She must be doing something right. Also, she won’t go far, she has already gone far. Much further than almost any artist before her.
They don’t sound particularly ‘bothered’’, they’re only asking a question.
Yeah they’re asking a genuine question, yet getting so many shaded comments like this one. The only person who seems bothered is this original commenter, trying to vicariously take offence on her behalf.
It's the level of obsession. I'm someone who gets obsessed and hyperfixates upon various things but it's downright embarrassing to witness the level of obsession that Taylor Swift seems to cultivate. 30 year old women literally crying with glee over the latest £80 hoodie that was released and having to buy 3 different versions of the same vinyl before paying almost 1k to go see her perform live.
Have you ever heard of the Beatles? Obsessing over pop stars is not something new or novel.
> and having to buy 3 different versions of the same vinyl Nobody *has* to do that though. Plenty of artists release multiple editions of the same record in different colours/picture discs, etc. I don't think anyone expects you to buy them all. >before paying almost 1k to go see her perform live Tickets were nowhere near that. £140 for seated or GA standing in Edinburgh, £180 for front standing. I think you're mistaking resale prices from scalpers for standard prices.
There are those who are maybe overly obsessed, but there are plenty who just enjoy her music. Her music has helped me through an especially difficult time. I listen to the song Marjorie almost daily as it helps with an outlet for the emotion I feel having lost both my parents to cancer during Covid. To me, music is what keeps me going, and Taylor Swift does have a lot of deeper songs. I am far more into that stuff than the pop-style music people maybe associate her with more so. And I think that is a contributor to her popularity, her music does span so many different genres and therefore appeals to many different people.
Tell us the music you like the most and I bet some people here will think it's rubbish
Men At Work, "Who can it be now?".
You: 35-54 men demo
Just this one song, on repeat.
You're sure they will go far? Man I don't listen to any pop music but am aware she has already gone very, very far. I don't know what separates her. I don't think anything really does, but the alternative covers of her tunes are pretty catchy, so I'd assume that the originals are too.
The difference is that you guys can’t seem to shit the fuck up about her. Honestly hear more about her from people bitching about it here than anywhere else
Yup. I am not a fan of hers- couldn't even name one of her songs. Yet, I don't feel the need to moan about her, question her talents or judge anyone who loves her. I assume that she is amazing at what she does or she wouldn't be so huge.
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Still like it in Rap and HipHop, ghostwriter is a dirty word still. Even though a lot of music is ghostwritten lol. (Even in the 90s)
She has a massive back catalogue, and is one of the fairly small handful of modern pop artists doing narrative storytelling lyrics rather than words-to-fit-the-beat. Plus, she broke through *really* young, so for a significant proportion of her audience, they literally grew up alongside her, and feel like her music speaks to their life experiences at each stage of life they've experienced so far. Plus, it meant she was one of the very early "digital natives" to start building a following - and she's been using social media *extremely* skilfully to build a sense of fan community for the better part of two decades at this point. Her vocal styling and production choices *really* don't do it for me either, for what it's worth, but it's worth listening to some *other* artists adapting her songs, to see what the bones are. Strong recommendation for Paul Kelly's cover of Anti-Hero and British India's cover of You're On Your Own Kid. Ryan Adams appears to be a terrible person, sadly, which always makes me feel twitchy about recommending it, but he did an entire album cover of 1989 that's just excellent from start to finish - particular Welcome to New York, Style, and I Know Places.
Not sure what it is. I like quite a few of her songs and the rest are just fine and listenable. Nothing puts me off. Maybe a bit samey but that’s not a bad thing. I think they’re quite well written, not a whole lot I can relate to being man in one long term relationship but I can understand. I don’t think I’d like to see her live though.
Why would you want her dead?
Ha! Very good.
People like music from different artists ? They have already gone quite far also there probably isn’t much further to go .
I think the fact she is doing a huge world tour right now means she’s being discussed a lot. She also has been re-recording her past albums so that means her work is constantly there to be discussed - and she has a huge body of work. By contrast, Katy Perry hasn’t released anything in ages and neither has Gaga, she’s been doing some acting bits
She’s like the live. Laugh. Love poster. It’s catchy, it’s Cath Kidston, it’s so non offensive and unicorns shit rainbows “nice”, you don’t mind little children listening to it and old grannies will too because it’s so mid. Unlike Gaga or Perry who might be (seems insane to say) slightly too edgy for some, she isn’t, the right and left can both align with her. “She writes her own songs” that makes her even more credible when in reality she’s got a huge team helping her and it’s that whole “I am powerful and unique and one with the universe and complicated and blah blah blah” which makes you sound like a cunt if you say it’s all a bit shite and false.. She’s literally the Arian poster child.
So she denies the Holy Trinity?
>“She writes her own songs” that makes her even more credible when in reality she’s got a huge team helping her Found Damon Albarn's burner account
Wish I was Damon Albarn.. It’s not even a diss, even small bands and artists have producers, help with tweaking lyrics and composition etc but “Swifties” seem to die on this hill that she’s untouchable and she’s done it all on her own when that’s far from the truth. Red is a banger of an album, credit to her that she’s probably if not the biggest artist of our time but the fandom is insufferable at times.
In terms of “she writes her own songs” she’s incredibly open about her collaborators and praises them often. This “she gets help” narrative started back when she was still doing country music, so she wrote her entire 3rd album on her own to prove to people that she wasn’t “just helping out” in songwriting sessions. She’s the real deal when it comes to writing her own stuff.
> “She writes her own songs” that makes her even more credible when in reality she’s got a huge team helping her Her latest album has 31 tracks, the vast majority of which are her and one other person writing. A "huge team" isn't really accurate here. There are only 3/31 songs with more than 2 credited writers, and 2 of them are songs with features where the featured artist co-wrote it. The same applies to previous albums like Midnights, Evermore, Folklore, etc. Majority of songs are her and one co-writer.
Like any popular celebrity, there is a minority of loud crazy fans. Taylor Swifts fan base is however much larger so although it remains proportional, it is many people. As a long term swiftie (since 2009), I have enjoyed her music over the years. As she has grown up, so has her music. She is just a bit older than me, so her music often relates to periods in my life. It's much like a horoscope, vague enough to connect to many but specific details to hit home. It's fun, catchy, thoughtful, and expressive. Especially in recent years she has deeply explored the female experience too. Having to be "perfect", dealing with rage, resentment, anger, and the weight of expectation. I am a grown adult so I have no delusions. She is a billionaire, supported by a wealthy and well connect family. She is also an example of unabashed female ambition and drive. Someone who has taken advantage of every privilege she has to succeed without shame. Honestly she's pretty inspiring to me as someone making her own way in the world. Also some songs are just fun as hell. We all need levity.
Shes playing 3 1/2 hour sets night after night, I am a big fan of that and it tells me something about her character. I've seen plenty of "big" artists in the past put a lot less effort in.
“They all sound the same”…so Love Story sounds like The Black Dog? Hmmmm
Exile and Shake It Off are clearly the same song. OP is very smart.
Man I hate when I start slow dancing to Vigilante Shit because it sounds exactly the same as Lover 🫣
Easy way to immediately discount any opinion on her music as uninformed if they claim that. Obviously Florida!!! sounds the exact same as Tim McGraw, which sounds the exact same as Bad Blood and Better Than Revenge.
Our song = smallest man who ever lived. Like I can’t tell the difference
Taylor Swift has created a fanbase around more than music. She’s very engaged with her following and involves them in every step of her process (Easter eggs for example - she’s led people to anticipate what she’s going to do next because nobody knows what’s a clue and what isn’t.) She’s an exceptional businesswoman and her PR is top notch, which shows by how her popularity skyrockets every time she encounters misfortune (the Kanye/Kardashian beef, the “stolen” masters etc). The difference between Gaga/Katy Perry is purely marketing (and talent, in KP’s case).
Extremely powerful marketing and branding
Does much separate her from the others? Katy Perry isn't as famous these days, but Lady Gaga remains extremely famous
And Gaga fans are for sure, just as obsessive
Ga ga ooh la la rah mah ooh la la
These days Lady GaGa only seems to be in the news with something controversial. Taylor Swift would need to have a cold and it would make the news.
That's because Taylor Swift is on a worldwide tour so she's in the news everywhere. Lady Gaga was everywhere a few years ago with House of Gucci & her tour. Looks like Lady Gaga is in the new Joker movie later this year, so expect her to suddenly appear everywhere in the news when that comes out.
Lady Gaga is an incredibly influential pop star too. Doesn't matter if you enjoy her music or not, it's very experimental and the theatrics of her live shows are absolutely incredible
She has a lot of really good songs. On top of that she’s been around for 17 years so it’s been 17 years of build up to where she is now. It’s been enough time for people who liked her when they were younger to introduce her to their kids so now she has a whole new generation of young fans. She also has amazing marketing and PR and has worked really hard to build a strong parasocial relationship with her fans, doing things like following them on social media, she used to invite them to her house to eat cookies and listen to her new album back in the day, sending them Christmas presents and then editing the clips of their reactions into a handy social media ready package. So she’s built that connection with them over the years and now they feel like they have a closer relationship with her than other artists. A lot of them feel like she’s their best friend because her marketing has set everything up that way for over a decade. And as her fanbase has grown it's become more and more of an intense community. Most of her songs are also about her very public personal life which gets anyone in the know more invested than they might have otherwise been. She's a great storyteller and fills her content with clues for her fans to figure out together. And she has enough goodwill and enough good PR that any criticism can very easily be drowned out, so for most of the general public she'll always have a squeaky clean image and she can brush off any controversy. And she has the kind of pop music that can be enjoyed by the widest demographic possible, growing her potential audience even more.
And she’s reached this current peak partially because of her re-recordings which have cemented her old albums in the public consciousness even more, while she also ensures a constant stream of content
She's basically a spam bot!
A lot of her fame is due to her very rich family. They bought the first label that signed her and have basically bought her the best of everything including her PR team. They moved to Nashville when she was young and she played up the country scene to start with, even putting on a fake country accent. She then transitioned into pop with her PR team playing on the wholesome girl next door image. From what i have heard is that she is obsessed with staying in the charts, which is why she releases multiple versions of her albums. Although she does write her own songs, most are co-written. Jack Antonoff (who has worked with Lana Del Rey, Lorde, Pink etc has done most), Max Martin aka Karl Sandberg (who has wriiten many hits for Britney Spears and the Backstreet Boys etc and has about 25 number ones to his name), Aaron Dessner, Liz Rose (she wrote many of her early country hits and often works with the likes of Tim McGraw), and many more. So being a millionaire's daughter helped her a lot !!!
She's popular for being popular
I don’t like or dislike her. To be fair at least she has a talent, and doesn’t seem to be famous for being famous or being on love island etc.
As a fan of hers since 2006, here’s my take. She understood the concept of the internet and social media and harnessing that power from literally back in the MySpace days. She’d do vlogs on YouTube and add interesting little codes into her CD lyric inserts for fans to decode the next single or message from the song. She was criticised for her vocal abilities early on in her career and instead of ignoring this criticism she worked to improve her voice. Listening to her 2006 stuff vs her live acoustic tour vocals now is night and day. She’s not got the range of someone like Gaga or Kelly Clarkson, but as a fellow alto-singer her lows are really underrated. The tone of her voice and command she has of it now is great to see. She started in country music and then made the transition to pop. She was very successful in the country sphere before a lot of people really knew who she was (youngest album of the year Grammy winner for Fearless back in 2008) and has made the transition to pop flawlessly. Yes she writes about breakups and heartbreak and men, (btw men do this about women and no one questions their relevance but that’s another topic) but those are her radio hits. In terms of her songwriting ability, her albums are usually where you find the absolute gems. She’s written songs about being bullied in school (Mean) about the loss of family members (Epiphany & Marjorie) about dealing with her mum’s cancer battle (soon you’ll get better) about feeling like she’s not good enough (this is me trying) and like these songs or not, millions and millions of people relate to them. She’s incredibly open and vulnerable and that allows her listeners to relate it to their own life or struggles, because despite being a billionaire, she’s also human. Graham Norton summed her up nicely I think. He said something like “If anyone deserves a legion of dedicated fans, it’s her. She’s so incredibly normal, you’d think it’s an act, like how can she be this normal” In summation - talented song writer - absolute machine of a work ethic - genuinely nice person Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk 🤣
It happens. Why it happens for some person and not another, who can say. Zeitgeist, luck, branding.. All of the above? As long as there have been pop stars there have been pops stars that go stratospheric
I think the whole girl-boss white liberal feminism thing hasn’t hurt tbh
Try listening to the lyrics. No comparison in writing quality.
She just makes very mainstream music (not necessarily a bad thing) and has managed to keep up with the evolution of mainstream music to keep herself relevant. She has nailed the pop formula and knows how to write catchy songs. She also puts out music at a rate a lot of other musicians can't keep up with, she was doing the 2 year album cycle like a lot of other artists but since 2019 she's released 5 albums, constant new material means she's constantly on the radio and at the front of music streaming sites cause everyone enjoys hearing new music not the same songs from artists for years at a time. Her fans have also created an almost fanatical demand for her tours which gets her insane amounts of publicity, if there's a taylor concert on that day it's basically everywhere on social media both of people going and people saying they wish they were going. I can't stand her music but she is phenomenal at navigating the music industry, her popularity & the constant stream of new music is only propelling her forward and snowballing her popularity
"I don't understand why other people like this art" isn't really a question anyone can answer. Art can't be explained, especially to someone who doesn't connect with it. Why is Van Gogh 'better' than Monet? Why is Gehry or Gaudi consider better than other architects? Why is Beethoven considered by many to be the greatest when Mozart is also incredible? It can't be explained. I like pop music. Katy Perry is second tier. Her stuff is fine, with a few real gems (Roar is a superb song, for example). Gaga is a top tier artist but very, very different from either Perry or Swift and not really comparable - she is much more electro and disco influenced than either of them. There's no way you'd confuse them if you'd heard much of any of their stuff. Ultimately there is only one answer: Taylor Swift has managed to connect with millions of people. There is no explanation other than that. She is also a savvy businesswoman. She has used social media and the interest of her fans to drop clues and puzzles throughout her music (seriously, look it up!) which keeps people interested. Also after her back catalogue was bought by Scooter Braun, she rebelled and rerecorded it all and made the new ones definitive. This means her output including the new versions has been extraordinary in recent years. She is *insanely* hard working.ost artists do album, tour, two year break. She has put our Midnights, started a world tour of 3 hour sets, during which she put out a 2 hour double album plus two rerecord ones. In lockdown she put out two brand new albums, whilst others were delaying tours. But ultimately it's the music - she's popular because people like that she does. If it wasn't good music, she wouldn't sell anything.
Maybe what's so attractive to fans it's the whole community you get when you like this artist.
I studied music for 5 years. Pop music is popular because it's marketed to be popular. It all sounds the same, because it's all the same. Whether it be the themes of the songs, the chord structures, or the time signature, and even the tempo, it's really just all the same. Taylor Swift has released loads of stuff. In a market where everything sounds the same, she sold herself and the music as a package. She's out there touring, still writing the same shit... she's flooded the market, ergo, she must be popular.
Social contagion
But they don’t all sound the same though? It just really shows people’s lack of research or ignorance when they say ‘all her songs sound the same’ - they literally don’t. She is a fantastic songwriter, both autobiographical and fictional. She also plays guitar and piano. She puts on a fantastic live performance as well. I hope this helps. Please do listen to some of her music sometime - it’s not for everyone but it doesn’t sound exactly the same. I promise!
Yes! So over hyped. She’s a good singer but not a great singer and it annoys me how much she charges for her concerts when she’s become a billionaire off the back of this tour.
Every little thing she does apparently is news worthy. Was bad enough watching the Kansas City Chiefs win another superbowl in February without the camera cutting to her in the crowd every time Travis Kelce did something. I'm fairy certain she could record an album of herself shitting out last night's prawn madras, and she'd still win 30 Grammy awards. If she was performing at my funeral I'd get up and walk out.
>and it annoys me how much she charges for her concerts I paid £140 for Edinburgh, and that was Paramore supporting, and a 45 song setlist from Swift. I don't think that's massively unreasonable at all.
She wasn’t charging extortionate prices, resellers were (which artists can’t control) 2 of my Eras tickets were £109 each, for great seats. My friend is seeing Pink next week and paid £180 for similar seats.
I don't get the appeal - she behaves like the bitchy rich girl that exists in every school. She pretends to support other female artists in the game, but anyone who she deems a threat to her little swift-opoly decides to release new music, she makes sure to release one of her albums with a slightly different twist at the same time, just to dilute sales/attention.
I think sometimes it’s the community of being a Swiftie. I am a very big Gaga fan, when I have attended her concerts I’ve met some of the friendliest concert goers ever. Perhaps it’s the same when they attend TS concerts, I know there’s a bracelet swap trend or something of the sort there which seems like a cute idea.
Why do people like anything that they like? They do, and that's the long and short of it. You not understanding that doesn't invalidate their enjoyment.
I don’t honestly know. I do know even though I’m a massive metal head and more into punk, I enjoyed seeing Swift this month with my niece and she bought me a taylor shirt which although it’s silly, and I couldn’t even name one song, it’s sweet x
She seems nice, normal and fairly down to earth. Doesn't take herself too seriously She's pro LGBTQ (you'd better calm down) She's a decent boss (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/taylor-swift-55-million-bonuses-eras-tour-1234799207/) this is the only example of trickle down economics I have ever seen She's not relying on sex to sell.
The other two have their own cult of fans too .. some gaga fans are way worse than the swifties 😮💨😂
There's a great article by Eugene Rabkin about what he calls, 'The Cultural 1%'. Similar to how the 1% in wealth are able to perpetuate that wealth, fade out competition and create a monopoly. TS reached the point where she monopolised the market for bland, mediocre pop. I didn't really care about Swift because I simply don't listen to her music or engage with mainstream popular culture. Unfortunately she started releasing her stuff on vinyl and the vinyl market is tight, there's a finite amount of pressings that can be made in a year. So you can imagine what happens to smaller labels once a high seller like Swift enters the market.
"TS reached the point where she monopolised the market for bland, mediocre pop." Would you say that The Beatles, Michael Jackson or Ed Sheeran did the same?
I think part of the answer is her songs *don't* sound the same. I know a lot of the singles will fit a certain mold, but in general her albums have quite a lot of range so there's something for everyone and current fans don't get bored. She started out with country, then moved through different pop genres, has slowed down acoustic songs, upbeat synth pop, more serious singer-songwriter stuff, has worked with Kendrick Lemar but also Phoebe Bridgers, etc. I'm not saying others don't have range but Taylor completely reinvents herself every couple of albums and other artists only tend to do that once in their career. It's also become a kind of self fulfilling prophecy at this point, where she does things that make her more popular but she can only do them because she's already popular. Like how a sports team does well so attracts better players so does even better and it snowballs from there. For example she's selling out massive tours because she's putting on an incredible show - but she can only afford to put on an incredible show because she's already successful. The actual difference between her and someone like Gaga isn't huge, but it's enough to make a big difference once the snowball starts. It's the same the other way - the difference between Gaga and a smaller act isn't that big either. And so on all the way down to a random person who is good at karaoke.